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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
It's the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. The NFL Draft is right around the corner and FanDuel is the best place to get in on all the action. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. FanDuel always has exclusive offers. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. And FanDuel has a lot of ways to bet the draft, with loads more coming between now and the first pick. So download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today and make every moment more during the NFL Draft, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg d help.com to learn more about resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG D help.com this episode is brought to you by no Bullshit. Every day is an opportunity to grow stronger, especially when you've got Best in Class award winning footwear backing you up. NO bowl is a footwear brand for training and for daily life built to support you in your pursuit of physical, mental and emotional strength. And get this exclusive for the McShay show listeners. No ball is offering 30% off your order. Visit NoAll Project.com McShay for 30% off your your entire order. That's N O B U-L L P R O J E C T.com backslash McShay for 30% off. Free agency has begun and quarterbacks continue to be on the move. How's it going to affect the landscape of this year's NFL draft in the quarterback position, plus my first top 100 in two years. Men, it's official. It's out in the newsletter. It's here on the McShay Show. Just 42 until the NFL draft meant you good?
- [01:54]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I'm good, man.
- [01:55]
Todd McShay
All right. Let's roll that music, baby. Match I got off the comment section for a long, long time at my previous place of impression deployment. Okay. It was a toxic place. Wasn't worth it. Yeah, I've gotten back on. I I feel like it's a healthier environment. People like have constructive criticism. They want to talk ball. It's great. I enjoy it. There's some knuckleheads out there, but where in life aren't there some knuckleheads? Right? I'm surrounded by them.
- [02:37]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You got thick skin.
- [02:38]
Todd McShay
I say all this because I noticed we got some. I got some. Not we. I got some backlash last week or last show. Too much about the schedule. McShay cut it out with the schedule. We got it. We'll tune in. Whatever. Stop with the schedule. I got Marissa in one ear. I got Connor in the other ear. We're talking about laying out the next six weeks. And you're right. When you're right, you're right. And I'm admitting my fault. I won't do it anymore. So no more about the schedule. The mock draft 2.0 drops next Thursday, by the way. No more about this.
- [03:12]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Just take that one in.
- [03:13]
Todd McShay
Yes, we got a top 100. I just mentioned. First time in two years I've been able to drop it. I'm excited to. We just dropped in the newsletter if you want to go see the entire top 100. And by the way, men, this is not humble. It's just a brag.
- [03:28]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Here we go.
- [03:30]
Todd McShay
Four years in a row, I've won the top 100 on the Huddle Report dot com. Just go check it out.
- [03:35]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You're good at this, man. You are good.
- [03:36]
Todd McShay
85, 86, 86, and 86 the last four years. Now, men will tell you I'm a sellout.
- [03:43]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I'll.
- [03:45]
Todd McShay
I'll counter with. I'm just a competitor. We can have that conversation another time. But listen, whether it's the most accurate or it's not, it's you. This is a good place to come find your top 100. If you want to figure out who the players are that are going to come off the board, and it'll probably be within, like, you know, have at least 85 of them, I'd like to think that are going to wind up getting drafted. So this is the first version in the newsletter. Please go Google it. The McShay Report. Subscribe to it. Chip in. $4. You get it through this draft. If you want to double down for $36, you can get it for the.
- [04:21]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Rest of the comment. Tell him where he's wrong. Let him know where he's wrong.
- [04:25]
Todd McShay
That's all the housekeeping. I promise. No more calendar, no more schedule. Mock Draft 2.0 drops next week on Thursday. Mensch. Let's see if you beg for us a little bit here, please, before we get started.
- [04:38]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I. I said I was going to work on this. I have not. Please hit the. The like button. Hit the subscribe button. If you. If you like us. If you don't like us, just either way, just hit those buttons for us. We really appreciate it.
- [04:49]
Todd McShay
There you go. And we do appreciate your support. Let's get to it, man. I mean, quarterback movement is the story. There's a lot of big players. And quite frankly, in some, in some situations, positional players are going to wind up being a bigger factor in the, in the big picture of the NFL in 2026. Right. Or 2020. Yeah. In this upcoming season, 2025. However, the quarterbacks, for our purposes, it's, it's fascinating where these quarterbacks have landed. Right. And you start to look at, you get Geno going to Vegas.
- [05:24]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [05:25]
Todd McShay
Sam in Seattle. Seattle. Sam Darnold in Seattle, Justin Fields to the Jets, Daniel Jones to the Colts. That's an interesting situation, right?
- [05:34]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [05:38]
Todd McShay
Yeah. There's still three dominoes to fall, maybe four when it's all said and done. Aaron Rodgers, get to that in a second. Kirk Cousins, Russell Wilson and I got a fourth one for you. Talk to a couple people in the last couple days. Derek Carr may not be cemented in New Orleans. I'm not going to get into all the minutiae of it, but after June 1, he may become a very interesting option for a team that is trying to contend, trying to win games and doesn't get the quarterback that they want in free agency and doesn't get the quarterback that they want in the draft. So as a kind of a stopgap to two year plan. Right. So those are four names that are still kind of front and center. Huge names. Huge names. Bigger names than they are great players at this point.
- [06:28]
Mel Kiper Jr.
At this point they're crazy. I totally agree.
- [06:30]
Todd McShay
Okay, let's work backwards here in terms of the draft order. Steelers pick at 21. They've been active in free agency, including DK Metcalf and most recently on Wednesday. And full transparency, we're always going to be fully transparent and it's important for you to know this if you're consuming this on Thursday morning when this, when this show airs. We, we are taping on Wednesday night. So if something changes in free agency, just consider that your warning that, that we from 6:30 Eastern PM Eastern Time on Wednesday night, if something happens from that point on, we obviously were behind the sticks on that. But I look at the Steeler situation, active and free agency. They bring in on Wednesday, Darius Slay at cornerback. That was a need for the Steelers, right?
- [07:25]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yep.
- [07:26]
Todd McShay
We know that they're in the market early in the draft for a corner and that doesn't take them out of the market because Slay now comes in, provides an upgrade, I believe, at the cornerback position, provided he stays healthy and then allows them maybe not in the first round to go draft a corner that they can develop for the future. Maybe it is still in the first round. Right. But they're trying to win now. That's obvious. They don't have a quarterback. No. And Aaron Rodgers in such typical. Aaron Rodgers and I like, got a long history dating back to the draft year and he thinks I'm an idiot. And I don't think he's that great a guy, period.
- [08:08]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah, he's not wrong about everything though.
- [08:15]
Todd McShay
But Aaron Rodgers is the only one that makes sense to me or makes the most sense, I should say.
- [08:20]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Agree.
- [08:20]
Todd McShay
Makes sense because I truly believe the product that we saw last year on the field was in large part due to the, the Achilles injury he was coming off of the year before. We saw it with Kirk Cousins too. They weren't the same guy. Now, age is obviously a factor in that and they're, they're never going to be what they were in their prime is. Is my guess. Right. So human nature. But Aaron Rodgers, if he's able to make a jump from what we saw last year and be somewhere between what we saw on the field last year and what he was, you know, winning MVPs just a few years back, he would give of what is remaining out there, including the draft. He gives the Steelers the best chance to make a legitimate run. They won a decent amount of games last year. Didn't get great quarterback play. Got pretty good quarterback play for a few games. That was about it. Here's an interesting scenario I want to, and I also want to mention this. With Aaron Rodgers, there's whispers about Minnesota, which I keep hearing. Minnesota with these other quarterbacks. And I keep wondering, is JJ McCarthy not as far along in his recovery and, or development as kind of the messaging that's coming out of Minnesota? But you hear a little bit about Minnesota recently in the last like 24 hours, all of a sudden it's kind of popped up. You hear the Giants, it's for about 48 hours it was either the Giants or the Steelers. And now we're hearing a little bit about Minnesota. So that's Aaron Rodgers. And once that domino falls, or maybe before it will, we could find out about Kirk Cousins, Russell Wilson. The fascinating part with, with the Aaron Rodgers situation as it pertains to the Steelers is they want to win now. He, he fits it. They're in a situation where like what do they got on their roster? A quarterback. So if it's not him, then are they scrambling back and how long can they afford to wait?
- [10:29]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [10:29]
Todd McShay
Because if it's not Aaron, then they're going to want to bring in Kirk or Russell Right. Or. Or maybe it's June 1st with a guy like, like Derek Carr, like I was saying. But the timing interesting. And I just, I was just watching show and Schefter's on there and he's. He's railing Aaron Rodgers there. Schefter's a pretty. A really good guy. Damn good guy. One of the best guys I've worked with. Human beings, cares about people. Good person. He and Aaron have a beef.
- [11:00]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Stunned. I'm stunned that Aaron has a beef with someone.
- [11:02]
Todd McShay
Oh, that's a little backdrop there. But. But even Schefter, who doesn't get involved in a lot of this nonsense is like, come on. Like, it's. I think he compared it to lunch. Like, what, are you gonna wait four days to decide what you want for lunch? It's simple. A lot of veterans making a lot of tough decisions. They make them quickly. Why is Aaron different? I'll tell you why Aaron's different. You want to know why? Because there's too much news in the cycle right now. Aaron's got. Aaron's news has to be the only thing in the cycle. So he's going to wait for that. Promise you. Yeah, he'll tell you differently. I'm sure he'll have a great explanation for it. And he won't mention. Mention me by name or anyone else by name or Schefter by name, but he'll, He'll. He'll react to that because he watches everything.
- [11:43]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [11:44]
Todd McShay
You know, he'll tell you he doesn't. So that's that. But Aaron Rodgers gives them the best chance to make a run if he's playing at a. At a higher level. I also heard this nugget, and it's not like that big of news, and it's. It's out there, but it's just interesting, the timing of it for me personally. Just like, oh, also in news, Tyler Shuck, my guy who I've got a rated a lot higher than most people, and we'll get to that. In the top third, top 100. Tyler Schuck was in for an interview this week. Teams I can't stand and anyone in and around the league can't stand. Can't stand whatever was in the top 30 visits. So here's how it works, just in case you don't know. And I'll be. I'll do this quickly. NFL teams have an opportunity to go to the player's facility within, I think it's 30 miles of where they played college ball or where they grew up. They can bring their offensive coordinator, their quarterback coach, if it's a different position, they'll, they'll bring those guys accordingly and they can work them out, put in some installs, test them on what they want to do, get a good feel. Much better environment for evaluation and for getting to know the person and how they process and all those things than a pro day or a combine workout. Okay. But also as part of this pre draft process, you get 30 players that you get to pick. It's not your top 30. We talked to Eric Dacosta, I thought it was fascinating, right. Said if you get, if you get information on, on a player coming in as one of the top 30, there's a really good chance. If we really like him and it's one of the high profile players, we're not bringing that guy in.
- [13:30]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [13:31]
Todd McShay
So we're using it to get information on that individual who could be playing somewhere else. Or we're bringing in mid, mid round, late round, undrafted free agent guys that like, good luck figuring out what we're gonna do because we don't even know they're gonna be on the board. Right.
- [13:44]
Mel Kiper Jr.
He's told the story about Lamar coming in for a visit and Lamar didn't have an agent so it didn't get leaked. And then a reporter called and said we heard Lamar was in the building. And I don't know what you're talking about. You can't confirm that. Good luck.
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Todd McShay
You can report it, but it, but you could also be reporting that something.
- [13:58]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You might be wrong. Right. I thought that was a great story about Lamar.
- [14:02]
Todd McShay
So when Chuck comes in, it's one of 30 players that they chose to, to bring in. I, I have never for a minute, during a couple plus decades of doing this, put an awful lot of stock into this. Some people like, are obsessed with it. I think it's fool's gold. I'd much rather spend my time evaluating players and talking to people about what their thoughts are inside the league. But it brings me to this mensch. It would make sense. Pittsburgh sitting there at 21 right in the first round. Aaron Rodgers is, I believe, from everything I'm told, he wants to play two more years. You can only, you can only really count on, on one at this, at this point in his career. So this would be, let's, let's win now, but also let's take this opportunity, whether it's in the first round or the second round to draft a quarterback that we can develop. So when Aaron's done or if it's a different Veteran is done. They can be. We can have them ready to go and be our backup plan. Jackson darts going in the first round and we'll get to that in a little bit. Tyler Shuck, based off of my information, is very likely to go in round two.
- [15:17]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Okay.
- [15:18]
Todd McShay
I do think it's interesting. They're picking a 21. Would that mean a move back? Would that. If they fall in love with Tyler Schuck, could it be there or is it move up from. From where they're picking? They pick at 52 overall in the second round. I don't think at this point Tyler Schuck's gonna be on the board at 52. I really don't. And I, and I, and I am. I've gotten pretty decent at separating my bias and my evaluation of a player. Not bias, my opinion of a player and where I rank them from that of what I'm being told in the league. So I, I'm hearing somewhere in that early second round range for Tyler Shuck. We'll see. What are your thoughts?
- [15:58]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah, that would not surprise me on that range. I mean, they, if they sign Aaron Rodgers, they still need to go get another quarterback. I mean, you need a quarterback of the future. This guy's only going to be there for two years tops. You don't know what you're getting. He wasn't the same player last year. He may never be the same player again. We've already talked about that locker room, how you got Pickens and Metcalf and now Rogers. There's a lot of moving pieces there. You bring in Aaron Rodgers. I agree with you. Best chance to win. You still have to get another quarterback and I think you have to get one that you don't want to play early, but you could play early. So I think you're doing it in the first or the second round. Listen, 21 is early for Shuck for me. I think it might be early for dart for me. But if you love one of them and you can get one of them, then you try to trade back. But if you get jammed up, take the quarterback. If you love the quarterback. I mean, we always say that. And let me go on afterwards and say, man, I don't love the pick. It's a little bit of a reach there. Who cares if he ends up working out that you did the right thing? We did this with Pennix in Atlanta and again, the jury is still out the Pennock, Pennix, works out in Atlanta. We all look bad and they look great and it didn't matter what happened that night. We're all giving them a hard time about it because in the end, they got their quarterback.
- [17:12]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I didn't absolutely hate it. I just didn't have a place to voice it. I didn't hate the Penck decision.
- [17:19]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I didn't know what they were doing.
- [17:21]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I know, but again, let's, let's. Let's keep it moving forward. So I started at 21 because it kind of fit into, like, the domino of these free agents. So if it, if it is Pittsburgh, then these other teams we're about to get to Tennessee at 1, Cleveland at 2, Giants at 3. He's off the board. And again, I want to make it perfectly clear, bringing in Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins should have nothing to do with whether you're drafting a quarterback. However, it could be an indicator of we're punting down. We're kicking the can down the road a year because we got. We got Garrett Nussmeier and some other guys that are intriguing next year that we think could be better than this year's quarterback class. Outside of Cam Ward.
- [18:09]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Pittsburgh doesn't think like that, though. Right. Pittsburgh doesn't think that we're gonna, we're gonna be in a position to draft a Nussmeyer in a year. They're thinking we're gonna be competitive no matter what. So they.
- [18:19]
Todd McShay
Pittsburgh's a different conversation. Pittsburgh's picking a 21 for a reason. And. And Tennessee, Cleveland and. And the Giants are picking at 1, 2, 3, respectively, for. For a very different reason. Right. So. So moving past the Steelers situation, I. I think it's important now we get into 1, 2, and 3 in the board because if it's not Pittsburgh and it's not this late surge from Minnesota, it's the New York Giants for Aaron Rodgers. The tough spot the Giants are in, and I promise we'll tie this all together, 1, 2, 3. And get into where we think the quarterbacks are going. But the tough spot that the Giants are in is as much as I love Brian Dabel and I've. I'll continue to express my appreciation for him developing quarterbacks and his ability to coach. He's on a short leash.
- [19:17]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
And show. So is Joe Shane, the general manager, they have to feel a little fortunate they got another. Another year opportunity. Opportunity to be the head men in. In for the New York Giants. That affects them, though, because it is. Is a short leash. And if you're talking to a guy like Kirk Cousins who thinks he's left, Russell Wilson who thinks he's Got two years left. Aaron Rogers who thinks he's got two years left. And they're looking at the, at the management, if you will, in this corporation and saying I don't know if they're going to be around the year after and what if, you know, and, and, and I've already moved enough. I don't want to make another move after one year to try to play my final year somewhere else, you know, so, so that seems like it, it is affecting the Giants with, with all of this. And maybe it hasn't been a massive hurdle and maybe that wasn't the only reason that Stafford wanted going back to the Rams. But, but New York all chips in on Stafford and he turned it down to go back to be with the Rams. So with that in mind, Cleveland at 2. They already brought in Kenny Pickett.
- [20:31]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah, they got Kenny Picket, man, but they're good.
- [20:33]
Todd McShay
Exactly. But it was a curious decision because they're still very aggressively as far as, like as far as reports are. You know what tells me, I keep hearing their name, name come up with Russell Wilson and Kurt Cousins is what I can tell you what I feel.
- [20:50]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Like that says, building off our conversation the other day, it feels like they really want Cam Ward and they are scared the Cam Ward is going to go number one to Tennessee and they want to have that, that contingency plan where we have Kenny Pickett here. If everything goes to hell and we don't love Shador as much as maybe other people do and Cam Ward's gone and we're picking at two, we at least have a quarterback plan in place.
- [21:14]
Todd McShay
Bingo.
- [21:15]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [21:16]
Todd McShay
And that's, and that's the five minutes I just went on with this roller coaster ride through all the free agency, free, free agent quarterbacks where they could go where they could land. And I, and I purposely went from back to front of the line 21 to 3 to 2 and now to 1. Yeah, I think there's a lot of tea leaves to be read. And what's going on here, I truly do. Just like the Raiders got their guy in a 34 turning 35 year old Geno Smith and the jets got their guy whether you believe in him or not. Justin Fields. That signaled to me in conjunction with the information that I shared on this show last week that Shador is not beloved the way that people think. And the vast majority of it is because of the tape. Yeah, and, and, and, and I find it interesting. I find it really interesting too. By the way, there was no one talking about Shador Sanders and maybe Falling a little bit in the draft in Indianapolis, no one on NFL Network, no one on espn, no one in the other major networks. No one was talking. The thing I heard most about Shador Sanders was he smiled a lot when he was in the on field drills. And then we came out last week and we shared information about teams I was talking to. And now it's this uproar.
- [22:43]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
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Todd McShay
About Shador Sanders falling. Backlash.
- [22:47]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [22:48]
Todd McShay
And I'm not doing this for credit, but I'm doing this because I want to explain something. Those conversations, as I very clearly laid out, both in the newsletter, the McShay Report. Google it. Subscribe, please. As I very clearly laid out in the newsletter and I very clearly laid out on this show, those conversations were of. Yeah, it was surprising. Maybe shouldn't have been surprising because we, we've known for months, Coach prime has said that Shador is. He's going to play a part in it. There's certain organizations and places we don't want him to go. Excuse me, but. But I can tell you, Todd, in these conversations, I can tell you, Todd, that, you know, wasn't the most professional interview. The interview was different than. Than the other interviews. Like dozens of other players who came in, like their life and their career and everything was on the line with urgency and caring a lot about what we thought of him. He just didn't seem to care all that much. Was kind of laissez faire, relax, chill. Wasn't disrespectful, not like, not even arrogant. Those words weren't used. So when I hear people now defend, you know, reporting what they heard in the report from what they heard from us and then. And then defending it, and there's a whole uproar is coming. Those conversations were 20, 80, 20% being. Yeah, that was surprising. I was surprised that he, he didn't have more of a professional approach in those meetings. The 80% was the Caleb Williams without the arm and without the athleticism stuff. The tape doesn't line up with what people kind of were hoping for as general managers and coaches get involved in this process. And so they like him a lot. And again, none of this matters because I haven't heard anything about the New York Giants who are struggling to get a veteran quarterback in and who have two guys at the head of that organization that need to save their job. And what better way historically in the NFL or even in college football to save your job as a head coach and a general manager than to bring in a young, promising quarterback who shows promise in his first year. Right. There's no better way.
- [25:05]
Mel Kiper Jr.
No.
- [25:06]
Todd McShay
So again, none of this will matter if he's a New York Giant 35 minutes into the NFL Draft broadcast April 24, Thursday night. But if he doesn't go to The Giants at 3, still available when the Patriots come on the clock at 4, it's going to be an interesting night for Shador because he's not going four to New England, he's not going five to Jacksonville, he's not going six to the New York Jets. He's very likely not going, according to what I'm understanding, to the Raiders at seven. Now we get to nine. That's a long time waiting for the. The face of this NFL draft and his dad, the face of college football to be waiting. Pick nine. And I'm not sure that's a lock, but the more I start to talk to people in the league and Derek Carr may not be a lock himself to be New Orleans forever for another year, that that pick is fascinating. Okay, yeah. So there's a lot to unpack here, but you nailed it. The whole purpose of, of having this conversation is if you start to read the tea leaves like we did with the jets and with the Raiders and the moves they made and you start to look at the Kenny Picket decision, you say, how in the world could Kenny Picket matter to when. Because you nailed it, Mensch. They're scared to death. The reports early on where Tennessee is going to pass. They've got four player. They're going to do their due diligence on Cam and Shador. But everyone in the league was like, yeah, but it's. It's going to be Abdul or they're not a quarterback away. That's everyone was telling me, right. They're not a quarterback away. They kind of know it passed punt on this year. Bring in a veteran. Here we are now. Okay, Wednesday night, you're probably viewing this or watching this on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever else you get your podcast. We appreciate your support. Please, please click it. Click the buttons. You're probably watching it on Thursday morning, but here we are now on, on Wednesday night of free agency, March 12, and the only thing that Tennessee has done of significance not been a quarterback. Offensive line. Kevin Zeitler just signed about 45 minutes ago before we're taping this on Wednesday night. Right. They brought in Dan Moore to be there starting left tackle. You got Latham kicking out to right tackle. People really believe he's going to. He's going to flourish in that role and is an ascending player. Skaranski former first round pick, guard, Cushionbury Center. That offensive line set?
- [27:48]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [27:49]
Todd McShay
I'm not saying it's going to be great, but it's set and it's an upgrade over last year and it just reeks of an organization that's trying to prepare itself to bring in a rookie quarterback and let Cam Ward be that guy.
- [28:04]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah, can I address the something about Sanders really quickly, please? And I think people have watched this who have listened to us. You know, I know they've heard me say at times over the course of the season that I thought Chador was the best quarterback in this draft. And I did at the time. I watched his Jackson State tape, I watched his color, his Colorado tape last year. I watched every throw this year. I want to just be clear that consistently we have said that he's one of the top quarterbacks in this class, but he wouldn't have been one of the top four or five drafted last year. And it's important to keep that in perspective. And why? Because the margin for error was not the same for Caleb Williams coming into this year. He just didn't have that kind of ability and that kind of tape coming into the year. And then he just did not have great tape down the stretch. He did not play great. I don't care what the numbers say. Throw on the tape because of the completion percentage looks great. But dig a little bit deeper and look at the average depth of target, look at his downfield throwing. It just was not that good. And yeah, it does get messy because the supporting cast is not great. It's getting hit a lot. I understand all of that, but the margins were not big enough for him not to have a great finish to the year and he didn't. And that's why we're talking about him falling in the first round. No one's saying he's not a first round pick. No one's saying he's not a good quarterback prospect. No one's saying any of that. The problem is the tape wasn't great at the end and he didn't have a big margin for error going into it.
- [29:29]
Todd McShay
Shedeur can succeed as a starting quarterback in the NFL.
- [29:32]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Absolutely.
- [29:33]
Todd McShay
I promise you he's the best peer pastor in this class. When, when he's on rhythm, when he's protected and he wasn't those things an awful lot and the protection was out of his control. The on rhythm stuff was sometimes on him.
- [29:53]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Agreed.
- [29:53]
Todd McShay
Because I, I mean, I could pull up a clip reel right now and, and I could patch them together and Hit the red flags on our tape and create a reel that I, that I email to you and you could watch 30, 40 plays that I come across. Just going through where he's, he's passing up easy cash to rob the bank. That can be coached out of him. He can play in rhythm. Plenty of guys, Lamar improved on that. Patrick Mahomes improved greatly on. A lot of guys have. I'm not saying that that's the problem. The problem is he's gotten really comfortable with extending right, extending left. And also the scariest part is the drifting back. Caleb Williams was a phenomenal athlete. Some of the most freakish highlight stuff in college you'll ever see. Shador is not that guy. And Caleb had a rocky rookie season. Now what's Ben Johnson going to come do? He's going to clean it up. He's going to tighten things up. There's, there's going to be quicker reads, more decisiveness, playing on schedule, simplifying things. Jared Goff wasn't the greatest, greatest quarterback in the world. Got there. They realized what are his strengths? Play action, middle of the field, anticipation. And that's what they, they funneled the whole offense into his strengths. That's what will happen in Chicago and we'll see if Caleb can adjust and hopefully he can and he turns out to be the player that we evaluated and whether you had him one or two in that class, we all thought he's going to be great. Maybe there's 1% of people out there who didn't think the Caleb was going to be. Didn't see the talent in Caleb.
- [31:37]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [31:38]
Todd McShay
But Caleb Williams had elite level talent from the arm strength, the mobility, the arm angle, all those things Shedor doesn't.
- [31:48]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [31:50]
Todd McShay
His talent is how quickly he processes his God given instincts to throw the football in terms of like anticipating the touch, the trajectory. He is a pocket passer who can dissect you.
- [32:04]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [32:05]
Todd McShay
If you, if the, if ever. I mean he is the best pocket passer in this class.
- [32:09]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [32:10]
Todd McShay
When he's got some protection and they get him on rhythm and he knows where to go with the football. He's a, he's like a surgeon.
- [32:17]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [32:18]
Todd McShay
That's an awful lot of things that got to be right.
- [32:21]
Mel Kiper Jr.
It's, it's the best way of putting it though. When it's going, when he's playing well, it's awesome to watch.
- [32:26]
Todd McShay
It's a thing of beauty.
- [32:27]
Mel Kiper Jr.
He can just pick people apart and if he's patient it's man, he's smarter than you.
- [32:34]
Todd McShay
He's Smarter than you in the pocket. When he. Without question. And I love that about his game. That's what, that's why we have him as a first round prospect. That's why we both have first round grades on him. That's why we have him as the second best quarterback in this class. But I do think there's a bigger gap between Cam Ward and Shador than there is Shador and Jackson Dart. Interesting in my opinion. Shador and Tyler Schuck. I'm planting the flag. I'm there on Tyler Schuck. We'll get to that in a minute when we unveil this top 100. But it's fascinating to me. I think Tennessee is going to take Cam Ward at number one and clip that off, Eduardo, because I'm sure it'll come back to bite me when 48 hours from now, Tennessee. Tennessee makes this deal with. With the Giants to trade out of that spot. I don't know anything. I'll always tell you when I know something. I'll always tell you when I don't. No one outside of that building knows. And, and, and I think.
- [33:39]
Mel Kiper Jr.
But a lot of smoke. A lot of smoke.
- [33:42]
Todd McShay
Yeah. But I think there are people in that building who are still saying what, what's. Let's go through our process. Football people are funny, man. Like, and I get it. The older I get, the more I'm like that. Like I got a process and until I'm done with that process. And that process has worked in the past, right?
- [34:02]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [34:03]
Todd McShay
You got some pretty smart people at the top of the head coach, general manager who have drafted some pretty good players, been part of like the Joe Burrow stuff. They. There's a process you go through and so they're not done with it. I think they all know.
- [34:22]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right? Right.
- [34:23]
Todd McShay
But, but. And they don't want to. They're trying not to lie to themselves and they're trying not to. But I think they all know it's like gonna be the pick.
- [34:31]
Mel Kiper Jr.
It's like vetting your vice president. You know who you want. Like as long as everything checks out, you know who you're going with. You know what I mean? You might, you might vet five of them, but you know who your guy is. Unless you find.
- [34:40]
Todd McShay
But occasionally. Occasionally. Yeah. And I'm not saying there's a. There ain't. And let me say this for Cam Ward, right? People who don't know he is like, he's an all time dog.
- [34:55]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [34:55]
Todd McShay
Everyone I talked to, he lives for ball. Competitive as like son of a. Like And. And. And we'll keep. Will keep everyone in line, demanding of his teammates change. That culture was not easy to change in Miami. They'd done a lot of losing and middling for a long time. He walked in from Washington State and grabbed that program by the neck and threw it against the wall and said, this is how we're going to do it. He couldn't play defense. Yeah, good luck, Carson. Beck.
- [35:32]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I'm just saying.
- [35:34]
Todd McShay
But anyway.
- [35:35]
Mel Kiper Jr.
All right, you told me to keep it moving, and I'm getting you off track now. Let's go.
- [35:39]
Todd McShay
35 minutes in. Haven't even brought up the top 100, but this. This quarterback stuff is fascinating. Tennessee addresses its offensive line. Cleveland sitting in there, too. Now they're. They're making moves that are weird at quarterback. Kenny Pickett's just weird.
- [35:52]
Mel Kiper Jr.
It is.
- [35:53]
Todd McShay
Even Schefter had to kind of explain it. Probably after getting off the phone with Stefanski or Andrew Barry to try to explain. Yeah, it's like, it could just be a backup. Could be a good backup, and maybe you catch lightning in a bottle and maybe you develop it. He's almost, like, explaining in a way, but it won't surprise me at all if we see Kirk or Russell wind up in Cleveland, and that's them saying, we submit. If Tennessee wants them, ain't nothing we can do about it.
- [36:29]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right?
- [36:30]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [36:31]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [36:34]
Todd McShay
And then there's the Giants. I mean, seriously, man, talk about being a bad spot. Bridesmaid, not the bride. And a lot of this stuff still close. Bunch of. Bunch of. Bunch of bridesmaid stuff. But if it's not Shador at three, then it gets fascinating. If it is Shador at three, is it a. Is it a move out of desperation?
- [37:09]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I don't. I don't think so, man. I mean, we just talked about, look, Shador could be great. I don't think it's you.
- [37:17]
Todd McShay
I don't know.
- [37:18]
Mel Kiper Jr.
It's tough. It's tough.
- [37:19]
Todd McShay
Would you make. Would you. Would you draft Shador at 3? If you're the Giants and. And you're the general manager, and you are in perfectly good standing, it's your first or second year, no problems. You got, you know what, Four years, four years left on your contract.
- [37:36]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I. I would. And here's the thing that we keep doing okay. And it's just. It's just natural to do this. Would I want to trade back and then try to get them a little bit later? Would I try to do all those.
- [37:44]
Todd McShay
Yeah, you can't do that.
- [37:45]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right? It's not happening. It's just, it is what it is. We are living in the shadow of what might be one of the greatest, if not the greatest quarterback draft classes in the history of the draft. Do you, do you think that's true? I mean, that's, it's possible.
- [38:00]
Todd McShay
We're heading in a, we're heading in a direction where that could be possible. Where it's, we, we look back and we talk about like the Marina. What was it, 83.
- [38:08]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah. Great class.
- [38:09]
Todd McShay
Where it could wind up being held in that sort of regard. If Caleb improves with a new group. Jaden continues on this trajectory. Drake builds off of what was a lot of impressive stuff but wasn't complete. Bo continues to progress. Pennix, we saw a little bit. And if JJ comes out and plays the way he's supposed to with an offensive coaching staff and a supporting cast, that is going to really put some nice training wheels on him. Yes.
- [38:39]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah. I mean, look, I, There have been a lot of bad quarterbacks drafted early and I think that you're. I mean, I, I just pulled it up because I wanted to look at it. Trey Lance went third overall and I wasn't comfortable with that pick then. And I understood what they saw in terms of his ability. But Trey Lance was the third overall pick in the draft. I mean, there you. When you're trying to find a quarterback, you got to take him early. And I'm more comfortable with taking Shador Sanders that early in the draft than I would have been with Trey Lance. Only because Trey Lance didn't have a lot of experience. It was, it was a very interesting situation for him. So to me, I, I get it. I wish, I wish that I could have taken Drake May here. I wish that Cam Ward was going to fall. To me, those things aren't going to happen. And if I'm Brian Dable, I'm thinking to myself, there's enough here that I can work with and that I can develop.
- [39:26]
Todd McShay
Here's where I am on it. And I do like Shador and I do think if you protect him properly and you have the right system, he can be effective. I truly do. This is not a Shador bashing thing at all. I just see like we always talk about going the general manager and how's he going to succeed? How's he going to fail?
- [39:47]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [39:48]
Todd McShay
And I see a couple of things that I wish, like I didn't have to present in the housing. How could it not go well?
- [39:56]
Mel Kiper Jr.
What are you doing? Okay, go ahead. What are you going to do if you can't get them.
- [40:02]
Todd McShay
Here's a scenario I would like to pitch to you.
- [40:04]
Mel Kiper Jr.
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- [40:41]
Todd McShay
Call it in now.
- [40:43]
Mel Kiper Jr.
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- [41:27]
Todd McShay
And it's a perfect transition into my top 100.
- [41:29]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Here we go.
- [41:31]
Todd McShay
I've got Jackson Dart and Tyler Schuck in my top 32. Still 31 and 32. Okay. I would much rather a scenario in which I am able to get because one's going to be Cam Ward. Two is probably going to be Travis Hunter.
- [41:55]
Mel Kiper Jr.
That's what I'm thinking in this scenario. Yep.
- [41:57]
Todd McShay
Because you just resigned Miles Garrett.
- [42:00]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right. It could be still be Carter because he's that good. But I think it's, it's Hunter.
- [42:06]
Todd McShay
I'd rather get Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter and Jackson Dart or Tyler Shuck.
- [42:16]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah. If they're there, I'm picking at 35.
- [42:20]
Todd McShay
If I'm the Giants no. 34, I've got the second pick in the second round.
- [42:26]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [42:28]
Todd McShay
So then I move back up and, and go get shot. I go get dart or I. Or I stick at 34 and there's a really good chance. I'm getting shocked. Although I may. I don't know. It's gonna be interesting to see because.
- [42:38]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You'Re not everyone in the league. Yeah. If you don't take, if you don't move up, you're not sleeping Thursday night. I mean you're not sleeping Thursday night. And I'm telling you right now, Thursday is going to be a long night for you, man. Because you don't know who else is going to try and do that too. Is there another team that's going to try and move up? What are the Saints going to do? Like and.
- [42:55]
Todd McShay
Because the Browns are sitting, the Browns are sitting there at 33 and we're saying they don't have an answer. The Giants are sitting there. Tennessee will have gotten their guy. The Raiders have a 34 turning 35 year old quarterback in Gino who are dangerous. But a lot of people in the league think that that's going to be Will Howard maybe in the third. The saints are in four. The saints are at 40. So. Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:23]
Mel Kiper Jr.
And maybe one at 21.
- [43:26]
Todd McShay
And, and Pittsburgh. And Pittsburgh's in the market depending on how this all shakes out.
- [43:33]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I'm just saying if you're.
- [43:34]
Todd McShay
I think regardless.
- [43:37]
Mel Kiper Jr.
It'S. I mean that's.
- [43:40]
Todd McShay
I'd rather get Tyler Shuck in the second round if you promise me I'm getting Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter and I just look at the list, baby. Round two, like we've had plenty around two quarterbacks. You go back like in the beginning of time. Jaws. Randall Cunningham, Boomera Siason, Andy Dalton, Jalen, Derek Carr, Gino Smith, Jalen hurts. Oh, Brett Favre, what's up?
- [44:14]
Mel Kiper Jr.
But listen, man, you are, you are.
- [44:17]
Todd McShay
That's not a lock.
- [44:19]
Mel Kiper Jr.
So when you pass on Sanders, you're not saying, oh listen, we're gonna get one of these guys here. We're gonna get Carter or we're gonna get Hunter and then we're gonna go get Chuck and we're gonna get Dart. Well, when you make that pick, that's. You're not a lock to get either one of those guys. So let's say both those guys are off the board. Now let me put you in this scenario. Here we go. I was supposed to move it along. Now we're in a rabbit hole. Yeah, let me put you in that scenario.
- [44:41]
Todd McShay
You can read my top 100. You take Hunt, go to the McShay report.
- [44:46]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You take Hunter or Carter and then you get. You, you're getting where you think you're going to get. Shuck and, and, or, and, or shuck or Dart and they're gone. What's your move now, Ace? What do you do?
- [45:02]
Todd McShay
Derek Carr, June 1st.
- [45:05]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You hope.
- [45:08]
Todd McShay
Yeah, no, I hear you.
- [45:10]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I mean, you're, it's, it's a gamble, man. It's a real gamble because we know these quarterbacks get pushed up all the time and I think Shuck and Dark are second round guys too. I do. But they're going to end. You just said Dart's definitely going in the first round.
- [45:24]
Todd McShay
All these quarterbacks definitely strong. I, I will be very, very surprised if we, if.
- [45:30]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Okay.
- [45:30]
Todd McShay
If the 32nd pick is made on Thursday night and, and Jackson Dart's not one of them.
- [45:35]
Mel Kiper Jr.
That doesn't shock, does not shock me at all. So, I mean, you're, you're gambling, man.
- [45:45]
Todd McShay
It's f. I mean, this is going to be fun, especially with like.
- [45:48]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Here's something else. These are all these, like, I'm in the weeds. The Patriots just went out and signed Josh Dobbs. Are you, are you. Hey, Joe Milton looked pretty good against the Bills. I know he's inconsistent, but he's a talented guy. Am I floating a seventh round pick to the Patriots for Joe Milton to come into the building and see what we can do with him? I really kind of liked him coming out of college. We just, you know, you don't think you're gonna, you think you'd have to give it more than a seventh?
- [46:16]
Todd McShay
Oh, no, I haven't studied the Joe Milton market, but yeah, I would guess you'd have to give up like, whatever it is.
- [46:21]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Are you, are you at least calling.
- [46:23]
Todd McShay
Maybe 4th, 5th, something like that?
- [46:25]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Are you calling Foxborough and saying, hey, you know, is he available? Is he a player we can maybe we look into Jaylen Milro, fascinated about where he's going to go. Someone's going to fall in love with that, that skill set.
- [46:38]
Todd McShay
Oh, I promise you, there are so.
- [46:40]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Many wild cards here. So many wild cards. And meanwhile, Aaron might still be doing Aerosco or whatever that thing is that he does and maybe a decision. Yeah, maybe he hasn't made a decision yet. That's, I mean, it is wild, this quarterback situation.
- [46:57]
Todd McShay
I mentioned that they're 31 and 32, Dart and Shuck, respectively. I'm going to catch a lot of grief for it and I'm okay with it. In three years from now, most people won't even remember the conversation. The ones that do, will, will, will come back and applaud me for, for sticking my neck on the line or, or they'll think I'm a laughing stock, but that, you know, I'm used to that. Let's get into this top 32. Tuck. Roll the top 15, please. Let's. Let's take a look at it. Here's what I want to do. I will say this. There are six quarterbacks mentioned. The top 100. I don't. We don't have to get to every position. I'm sure as not gonna sit here and read off a hundred names. And it's not because I'm trying to pedal. $4 from you for the McShay report that you can Google and click and subscribe and grab at least. I'm not talking about the schedule. Right.
- [48:00]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Here we go.
- [48:01]
Todd McShay
Mock drafts next Thursday. But. But I can tell you I've got six quarterbacks in the. In the top 100. Okay. And Darton. Darton Shucker three and four behind the obvious. And Cam Ward and. And Shador Sanders we just talked an awful lot about. Also in there after those four, two other quarterbacks. Jalen Milro you just mentioned. I put him in. I'm curious on you to get your take. I've got him in at 76. It seems reasonable. It's about mid third round. I can't stand a lot of things I saw on tape last year. I think he's swimming in it mentally sometimes. I think he showed flashes early in the season. I thought the Wisconsin game showed a lot of good things. The first half of Georgia was awesome. On designed runs, he's an absolute truck and a burner. But scramble runs, he's not nearly as effective. It's the weirdest phenomenon. Here's another really weird phenomenon with him. Most beautiful deep ball of all the quarterbacks in this class. The least accurate within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage in this class. Yeah.
- [49:16]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I feel like he really struggles with like layered throws over the middle. There's. There's some concerns.
- [49:21]
Todd McShay
Major concerns. My man needs time. I think part of his accuracy problems. Jalen Milrose, is it. I think it's. The game's going too fast. I think it affects his. His feet. I think he's right. His brains. You can see his brain. Like. But. And we saw it at the Senior bowl too. That can be corrected. He's got to get to a place and have some time to develop. Give him two years. Make him understand exactly where he's going with the ball, what to read, what he's looking at and all those sorts of things. Get him out of the freaking weight room too, please. I said it. I'm telling you. And it's funny. It's funny. Except I said the same thing about Brady Quinn. I said the same thing about.
- [50:06]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Remember Brady Quinn that.
- [50:08]
Todd McShay
Well, yeah.
- [50:09]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Build.
- [50:11]
Todd McShay
Yes. And his. And his sister trying to slap me in the red carpet of the. Of the ESPYs. I remember that, too. That was. That was a fun. That was a fun few years with the Notre Dame quarterbacks.
- [50:24]
Mel Kiper Jr.
With Kuiper, Jimmy Claussen. Yeah.
- [50:27]
Todd McShay
Just love loves Notre Dame corps. It might have had something to do with the agent, too, by the way. Mel, I'm not ignorant. Here we go, 15 years later. But my point is on, like, all joking aside, he's. He's got to show, like the most. The best passers, the best quarterbacks in the league are not bodybuilders. Will Levis has the same problem. Didn't change.
- [50:50]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [50:50]
Todd McShay
Okay. Tim Tebow, same problem. They're muscle heads. They love the way.
- [50:56]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [50:57]
Todd McShay
And they're all physical. They're all tough guys. And Levis loves to run and, you know, lower his shoulder. Tebow was a fullback playing quarterback on the best college players I've ever seen in my life. Just not cut out to be an NFL quarterback. Part of the reason was too bulked up, doesn't have touch and finesse. Jalen's got to learn from those guys. And I promise you, this is not me talking. If Jalen happens to be listening or watching or someone in his camp, this is NFL decision makers talking. You got to cut out the weights. You got to get with flexibility. You've got to work to become more accurate as a passer. And he'll do that. He'll get in the right program, and he'll do that. And you're going to bet on the beautiful deep ball, the strong arm, the rare athletic traits, And I think 76 is an appropriate spot for him.
- [51:49]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I think that's totally fair. I'm buying that lottery ticket earlier than that. But I think it's fair in terms of ranking him against the other players in the class. Is putting him in that you're taking.
- [51:57]
Todd McShay
The under on Fanduel.
- [51:59]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Why? What's under? What is it?
- [52:01]
Todd McShay
I don't know. On. On Moro. Speaking of Fanduel, I actually, I wanted to get to this.
- [52:05]
Mel Kiper Jr.
We'll.
- [52:06]
Todd McShay
We'll keep coming back to my top 100. And again, it's on the McShay Report. You can go read the whole thing, and we've got a bunch of notes. Guys who are rising, guys who are falling, and we will get to a Little bit more here in the next 10 or so minutes. But what are. There we go.
- [52:21]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yep.
- [52:22]
Todd McShay
You remember. And we've got it. Tucker, would you remind me, please, Mr. Tuck Bomb with all the great news. Would you please remind me? Breaking all those reports. We've got to do a tracker on this. I want to show. Look at that number. Mensch. It was neck and neck. Shador was actually. He had better odds to be the number one overall pick, what, a month or so ago? Two months, definitely. Then it got, like, neck and neck. Then Cam became, you know, more likely. Now, Shador Sanders, if you're not watching, I'll rip through these. But Shador Sanders is plus 2600 to be the number one overall pick compared to Cam Moore. And it's not shocking because it's not the conversation. Shador Sanders not going number one. Fanduel is in an empire because it makes dumb decisions and puts on bad odds. They don't do it. That's why every time, Every time they give me some, Some. Some free bucks to work with, I. I wind up blowing it and a lot more of my own personal money. I mean, they're good at what they do. Cam ward is minus 220. Abdul Carter's now up to plus 170.
- [53:38]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yep.
- [53:39]
Todd McShay
That's a big swing, man.
- [53:41]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yep. Someone knows something we don't know.
- [53:43]
Todd McShay
Travis Hunter was plus 1700, so that's fascinating. As we get closer, there will be some player props and we'll have a lot of fun with it. Like, I. I have a blast looking at them. I've never bet on them. I've made a lot of friends. Not rich, because you can only bet so much, but I've made a lot of friends, some good money over the years, and we're going to try to. We're going to try to cash in this year. All right, so the top 100, we talked about the top 15. Tuck, throw that back up, please. I think I. When I look at it, I'm interested to get your opinion. Abdul Carter's obvious at 1. Travis Hunter's obvious at 2 for me, at least. Mason Graham, I've kind of had for a long, long time in that number three spot. That's the elite tier for me, 94 and 95 grades. Just a tiny notch below. And you've already made your argument for Tyler Warren, and that's fine. But just a tiny notch below in that tier 2, which is still like Rare Air elite players, just not the elite of the elite. Ashton Genty, Tyler Warren, Cam Ward, all in that tier followed by Jalen Walker. You might like this bench, Colston Loveland. He's one of the best eight players in this draft. He's going to make an absolute impact. He is going to be a dynamic difference maker at tight end in the NFL and he's going to do it right away. This dude is ready. Holding tight on Jade A. Baron even though a lot of people seem like they're, they're cooling. Armand Membu, as I mentioned briefly the other day, is OT1, if you will, in this class ahead of Will Campbell. But Will Campbell I did not kill. I went back and looked. There are two starters in the NFL at tackle with 30 in the 32 inch range. Couple more just just north of 33. I think he can play tackle. I don't disagree with your assessment that it might not be a perfect move into guard, but I, I, I hesitate enough and Membu backed up his really damn good tape with numbers that are sensational. Six, four and a quarter, 332 pounds. Mensch. This is why membu is number one, right? Because the tape was really good and the, the workout numbers exceeded the tape. His arms aren't the longest either, but well within the range. 33 and a half inches. You'd like 34 plus, but there are a lot of guys that have 30 in the 33 and a half range that have had great careers. He was one of five guys, Mensch. I went back and looked at this. One of five guys in the entire offensive line group that ran a sub five second 40 yard dash. He ran a 491. He did that 300, 332 pounds.
- [56:27]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [56:28]
Todd McShay
Also had the fourth best vertical and the best broad jump.
- [56:32]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I think he had the second best bench too. I mean he had a day. I mean he had a workout. Yeah.
- [56:38]
Todd McShay
So that's where I am in the top 10. Omari and Hampton is just behind those guys. I'm a huge Omari and Hampton guy. If you're just tuning in, Campbell right behind Hampton. Jihad De Campbell for the Alabama linebacker that we're now into that third tier. Will Campbell. Jihad Campbell. Shamar Stewart, Matthew Golden, Stuart the edge from A M. Golden, the wide receiver from Texas. That's our top, my top 15. They're all in that third tier of player. What stands out to you, brother?
- [57:10]
Mel Kiper Jr.
A bunch. You didn't kill Will Campbell. You put him at 12. I struggle with the player. I told you, I mean I told everyone that he scares me. But I also, I don't hate it because he's just the tape is good enough for him to be, you know, a first round player. I just. Who do not put you on the spot. Do you remember the names of the two starters who are at offensive tackle?
- [57:30]
Todd McShay
I don't.
- [57:31]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah, we should figure that out because I mean it's one thing to be a starter in the league and it's another thing to be a guy that's worth the first round pick that early in the first round with that arm length. It still scares me. I still think it shows up on tape at times. So that one's, you know that, that one's interesting to me. I love Loveland too. I still think that's high because of what he is as a tight end and I don't think he's Brock Bowers. He's not Brock Bowers. So I think he should go a little later than that to be honest with you. Will Johnson, the corner from Michigan you have at not anywhere near the top 25.
- [58:08]
Todd McShay
Luke Kadeki is one of them for the Buccaneers. 32 and a quarter.
- [58:14]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Are you spending, I mean are you spending a early first round pick on that kind of a player? But Will Johnson, the corner for me.
- [58:19]
Todd McShay
Caleb McGarry was a first round pick he for the Falcons. He's a starter right tackle, no starters at left. Ah, sorry. Bernard Rain Ryman, I forgot about. Yeah, Bernard Ryman, Central Michigan, right.
- [58:31]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yep.
- [58:32]
Todd McShay
For the Colts third round pick but he fell to the third round.
- [58:35]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [58:37]
Todd McShay
So McGarry's the only one who is a first round draft pick who's a starting tackle in the league with sub 33 inch arms.
- [58:47]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah. It's still concerning for me. I know he's a good player, man. I'm not trying to bash him, he's a good player. I just don't know. I don't know what to do with him. And 12 might be a little early for me. And then Will Johnson, the corner from Michigan, man, that's so tough. Banged up this year, shoulder, turf toe. Now he's got a hamstring injury. He's not going to run at his pro day, maybe do a private workout. But there's. And I get it, there's. He's a gambler, man. He's a gambler with short arms which is tough to be. He will jump routes, get cut out of position and he's in trouble. But he's a gambler that also returned three interceptions for touchdowns, had nine picks and excels in off coverage. The way he reads the quarterback, gets his eyes on the receiver and breaks on Balls is elite. There's something else here that I really want to. I've been dying to get into with you a little bit deeper, so I hope it's all right. You have a very odd affection for slot receivers. Early Ameca Igbuka, slot receiver. Let's put him. And I know other people have done this. I know I'm in the. And it's not just you.
- [59:50]
Todd McShay
We're gonna put him. Jackson Smith. And Jigba was a slot receiver. Did you see what he did for Seattle last year?
- [59:55]
Mel Kiper Jr.
We'll see, man. We'll see. I listen, I think I want to see him run. I don't.
- [60:01]
Todd McShay
Was a slot receiver. You see what he did.
- [60:05]
Mel Kiper Jr.
But a lot of people way more. Way more than Igua does. And by the way, he didn't have Jeremiah Smith running by him on the outside, and he didn't have Chip Kelly playing games with. In terms of misdirection, motion, alignment. Chip Kelly did so much for that kid. It's crazy. Which he should have. He made the. He made the most of the skill set.
- [60:25]
Todd McShay
I. You hate Amica Buka. Have you ever talked to anyone about Amica Buka?
- [60:31]
Mel Kiper Jr.
First of all, he's an outstanding individual, hard worker. The numbers at Ohio State, beyond crazy, crazy numbers at Ohio State. I get it. I get it. All. Love him in the second round. Love slot receivers in the second.
- [60:43]
Todd McShay
Well, you ain't getting them, son.
- [60:45]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Great. I'll get someone else if I get Jaylen Noel instead, who, by the way, you have at 35 as a slot receiver. I know he's an outstanding workout again.
- [60:55]
Todd McShay
And I was pissed off that I had to put him at 35.
- [60:57]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I know, I know. I looked at. I was like, he probably didn't want to put him that low again. Slot Luther Burden, I think you have a little bit lower. I have the same concerns with Luther Burden that I.
- [61:07]
Todd McShay
Let me tell you about when you. When you say slot receiver. Yeah, I got it. But we're rolling out three and four receivers in the NFL almost every single day. Correct. So my slot. My slot receiver is five, ten and a quarter, 194 pounds. Built. Built tough and sturdy.
- [61:23]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yep.
- [61:23]
Todd McShay
He runs a. This is Jalen Noel. Runs a four. Three, nine. His tape is. His tape is pristine. His routes, his understanding of zone, his ability to uncover with his feet.
- [61:36]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Give me one number.
- [61:38]
Todd McShay
Be big and physical. He does it all the time. Best vertical jump in the entire fricking combine for wide receivers. 41 1/2 inches. Best broad jump of all the wide receivers. 11 foot 2 inches. We all know you and his tape is sensational.
- [61:54]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You've probably how many days combined? Because I've heard those numbers every day.
- [61:59]
Todd McShay
Oh, I took four months to get under my skin, by the way. Now it. Now it feels comfortable.
- [62:04]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I like them a little bit. A little bit farther down the board. I like them.
- [62:09]
Todd McShay
Well, that's my problem with you people.
- [62:12]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You people. Would you take. Let me tell you something. All the outside. Look, go look who leads the league in receiving every year. Who are the top 10 receivers?
- [62:20]
Todd McShay
I'm not one of them. Seven, five, eight. I'm not talking about tens. I'm not talking about Tez Johnson.
- [62:26]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You're talking about guys 6 foot 195. That's what. That's what Burden and Igbuka are. Nolan's. Noel's a little bit smaller. I get it.
- [62:36]
Todd McShay
Yes. Noel's a little smaller.
- [62:37]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I understand it. Slot receivers you can find later on in the draft. Slot receivers you can get other places. I want a guy who can win on the outside.
- [62:45]
Todd McShay
Not that guy. Not that guy. Not that guy.
- [62:48]
Mel Kiper Jr.
What guy?
- [62:48]
Todd McShay
You can't. Jalen Noel.
- [62:52]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I don't know, man. I mean, I love Jalen McMillan. Last year out of Washington, he went, I think, in the second round, and he was really good for Tampa this year. That's the kind of player you're looking at.
- [63:04]
Todd McShay
But this is my problem with you people. This is my problem with you people. Go back. Here's your homework, because you got Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, until we got one.
- [63:14]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Because I've already looked into this a little bit. Go ahead. He's built the same way. He played on the outside.
- [63:21]
Todd McShay
Slot thing. Forget the slot thing for a minute, because I. I want you to do a new homework assignment.
- [63:28]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Okay, Here we go.
- [63:30]
Todd McShay
Mr. Lazy. Don't want to do more homework. I want you to go and look at how many exceptional wide receivers in the NFL came from the second round because of you people.
- [63:46]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I. Listen, I get it.
- [63:48]
Todd McShay
This is what happens. You find, well, he doesn't. He doesn't look like Megatron. He doesn't. He doesn't have four. And also when you're doing this, when you're doing this, when you're going through draft history, when you're going through draft history and going through our database and you're. And you're ripping through. Okay, I also want you to look at how many people who either look the part, not what I'm saying, or Blaze the beautiful number, Darius Hayward. Bay comes to mind. And there's a dozen other of them.
- [64:18]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Right.
- [64:19]
Todd McShay
That Go in the first round. Top 10 picks who the Bengals draft that year. I, I doesn't matter. My point is they don't meet this, this measurable thing. And I watched the tape. I'm like, that guy's better than that guy, but that guy goes in the second round. Now, DK and, and, and.
- [64:39]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I mean, T. Higgins like guys who can win on the outside. I kind of like those guys.
- [64:45]
Todd McShay
Mike Evans, when you're doing your homework assignment, I want you to find two things for Monday, and I'm coming back to you. You.
- [64:51]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yep.
- [64:51]
Todd McShay
Two things. One, one, how many receivers checked a box or had an exceptional workout thing, whether it was the height and length, body or the, the speed and were drafted too early in the first round and sucked. And then how many receivers went in the second round because they didn't check one of those boxes? Two things and have been phenomenal.
- [65:15]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Two things I'm going to come back at you with. If there are a lot of busts like that, and I think there are, I think you'll be right. Why do players, why do teams keep taking chances on those kind of players? Because they are difference makers. Because when you could find that guy who wins on the outside, but they're.
- [65:31]
Todd McShay
Not, if they can't catch the ball or get open.
- [65:33]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I understand you miss, I understand you miss a lot. I get it. But if you find that guy who's got that size and speed, who can win on the outside, that's a. Trey Harris is about 5 pounds heavier, ran a lot slower, but wins on the outside. Man, give me. Trey Harris wins on the outside in.
- [65:51]
Todd McShay
The second round ahead of Ibuka.
- [65:56]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yes.
- [65:57]
Todd McShay
Yes. I want to have this. 4, 5, 2.
- [66:00]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You always, by the way, you're always saying, why didn't this guy run at the combine? He's hiding. He's hiding. Now Igbuk is supposedly gonna run away.
- [66:07]
Todd McShay
No, he's not hiding. He played a, he played a national championship and won it like eight days earlier.
- [66:13]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Fine.
- [66:13]
Todd McShay
I want to see the schedule.
- [66:15]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Supposedly, he's going to run in the low four fours. I'm telling you right now, he's not a burner.
- [66:18]
Todd McShay
Well, he's an Ohio State wide receiver. What do you think he's going to roll out a 4, 5 with a, with a piano on his back?
- [66:25]
Mel Kiper Jr.
All right.
- [66:25]
Todd McShay
A couple other things I want to see. This feels like home. You're finally, you're doing the best version of you pissing me off. Couple guys that jumped up in the rankings.
- [66:39]
Mel Kiper Jr.
By the way. Everyone else has a book in their first Round too. Just saying.
- [66:42]
Todd McShay
No, I know. I don't care about everyone else. Maxwell Hairston talking to guys in the league. He's going in the first round. Got him up to number 24 in the rankings. I just want to recap this for you. Everyone knows he ran a 4:2:8. Fastest. Fastest 40 time. His tape's awesome. He's a ball hawk. He moves different. When I talk to people in the league, it's not many guys can. Can do both at a really high level. This guy can man end zone coverage. But I didn't really. I had to go back and look at the complete picture real quickly. Second best vertical jump, 39 and a half. So you talk about a shorter guy who's got to be able to climb the ladder and compete for the football. And he does. Broad jump 10 9. Lower body explosiveness, third best in the. In the combine of cornerbacks, fastest of all the defensive back safeties and corners. Max top speed 24.25. You ready for this? The second best was 23.9.
- [67:42]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Wow.
- [67:43]
Todd McShay
So almost a half a mile an hour difference. He moves Darian Porter, who's an absolute burner. The hell is going on Ohio at Iowa State, by the way? I mean the speed on the perimeter, a couple other guys. Donovan, as. As a. As a Raku.
- [68:03]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah. You're my guy. Yeah.
- [68:05]
Todd McShay
Sitting here complaining. Sitting here doing all this, you know, all the negative stuff. I put your BC edge in. In the top 30. Only sub 7 second 3 cone of all the edges. I saw that and that's important for that position.
- [68:22]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Yeah.
- [68:24]
Todd McShay
The body control, the change of direction.
- [68:27]
Mel Kiper Jr.
The stock you see on tape.
- [68:29]
Todd McShay
Exactly. Combine that with a short shuttle of time like a wide receiver. 41 9. Combine that with 34 inch arms and combine that with the production. 16 1/2 sacks last year. That's why he's getting bumped up into round one.
- [68:44]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Love it.
- [68:45]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [68:46]
Mel Kiper Jr.
All right. I'm not done with you.
- [68:50]
Todd McShay
I got one more. Yeah, go ahead.
- [68:52]
Mel Kiper Jr.
You keep taking slot receivers in the first round. Okay. And I'll get. I'll get Josh Simmons from Ohio State, the offense. So just so everyone knows, I don't need Ohio State players. I'll take Josh. Josh Simmons, the offensive tackle in the second round who you have 38th overall. I'm so worked up, I can't even breathe.
- [69:08]
Todd McShay
I don't.
- [69:08]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I. How. Because he has short arms. Because he has 33 inch arms. Is that. Is that the issue? I don't get it. He could play on the right or the left. You get potentially a Starting tackle that late in the draft. I get him dropping him a little bit. You want to drop a little bit. He's coming off a knee injury. I.
- [69:25]
Todd McShay
Who, who for two, two things. Who would. The talent is absolutely there. I'm with you. I wouldn't have, considering the information I, I have. And that's part of it. Are you getting a guy who's mature enough to come in and handle his business and there's concerns about that just going to be up front and straight and that's what I'm hearing. And I don't like sharing, but there's some, like, there's some concern with that stuff. Okay, that's number one. Number two is who was. He had this great stretch run early on in the season that got everyone worked up. Everyone worked up about him as a first round pick and he's got first round talent. Who was that against?
- [70:08]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Well, he did Mike Green, but he didn't get much reps. They played Marshall early in the year again.
- [70:14]
Todd McShay
I'm glad you brought that up. Two reps, snaps, two reps against Mike Green. So everyone's like, well, he played Marshall, but they had Mike Green. Okay. Yeah, answer my question. Who did he play against?
- [70:27]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Well, it's. Oh, was he not Iowa? Was he not Ohio State the year before? Did I not watch the 2023 tape? You know I did.
- [70:36]
Todd McShay
Yeah, listen, he. And he wasn't. And he wasn't the player that he was early in the season when all of a sudden it's like, oh, he's a first rounder. I'm just saying.
- [70:43]
Mel Kiper Jr.
I forgot. I forgot. Teams don't develop. They don't draft developmental franchise.
- [70:48]
Todd McShay
They do when they're dogs and they, and they're going to. And they're going to. And they're certain that they're going to come in and, and pro and give back what's been given to them. Consistency, effort, killer mentality all the time. I'm not saying he's not going to. I'm saying there are concerns and that's why he has fallen a little bit. I love you men.
- [71:11]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Criminal. Criminal.
- [71:12]
Todd McShay
This is fun. This feels like a hotel room in Indianapolis. Mobile, Alabama. Yelling and screaming. You're ordering crazy stuff from room service. The room.
- [71:26]
Mel Kiper Jr.
That happened once.
- [71:28]
Todd McShay
No, this feels right. I'm glad. I'm glad we're. We are now officially in draft form because you are agitating me. Face is red, but in a. But in a very good way. Yeah, I feel like I'm red too. All right. This is fun. Hey, mock draft coming next Thursday. I'm not going to do a whole bunch of scheduling stuff here. Top 100 is out right now. Go get it. Would you Please Google the McShay Report? Click subscribe. Then they're going to ask you because this one is paid. They're going to ask you for four.
- [71:57]
Mel Kiper Jr.
Bucks or you double down or you.
- [72:01]
Todd McShay
Double down for 36. Please help us. Support us. And we appreciate it. We appreciate you being here. We appreciate you watching everywhere you watch and or get your podcast. We will be back on Monday, Mondays and Thursdays. We got and I'm not going to do the calendar stuff, but we got an awesome draft week lined up. We'll share it at some point. I'll make Mensch do it so you stop yelling at me. But thank you for watching. Thank you for downloading. Thank you for listening. Well, we'll see you on Monday. Have fun. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenectic or visit mdgambling help.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 247 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York, it.