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- [00:07]
A
It comes as no surprise that this is the most viewed show that we do outside of draft week. What we got wrong in the 2026 NFL Draft Self Scouting's. It's helpful, but it's painful sometimes. Only 353 days until the 2027 NFL Draft. You good men.
- [00:27]
B
I'm doing way better, man.
- [00:29]
A
Roll that thing, Tuck. Today's show is about picking ourselves apart. You know, it's not fun but the, the audience loves it. I mean it honestly, one of the least surprising things when we went down did an audit of last year's shows. What were the the most viewed shows? What was absorbed the most by by, by our, our audience and this was very near the top of all the shows that weren't like you know, the 10 days leading up to the draft. And I feel like we needed, we
- [01:19]
B
need to squeeze one of these in. We got to figure out how to do this. After the rookie season though, it feels a little early for this. I think it's good. I think it's good. We could ch. But let's check back in, you know, January and say this is really where we were off. Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC.
- [01:39]
A
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C
Bull Summer All Day Play. You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track.
- [02:22]
B
Red Bull Summer All Day Play.
- [02:24]
A
Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com brightsummer ahead to learn more.
- [02:29]
C
See you this summer.
- [02:32]
A
Good. We will revisit this and I'm cool with that. But I also think the premise today. Let's just lay out the premise. The premise is, all right, we, we have a board, we gave grades to all these players and at the end of the day it's not where the NFL viewed them is essentially our plan, our premise. Right?
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B
Yeah.
- [02:52]
A
I want to, I want to start with this though, because it's not, you know, most of these guys, it'll be like, well, we had, we had them ranked 15 and they went 45 or, you know, one of my, I wouldn't call it a regret. One of my learning moments from this draft. And I've told you all the way back to the very beginning, like Jamarcus Russell, I got kind of bad information from people around that building and I've worked very hard to make sure I'm secure with my, my, with my sources, if you will, and my relationships in Baton Rouge. And they've, they've been fruitful in many years, even back to last fall with the Brian Kelly stuff. But sometimes you. It's interesting because you start. We're starting month. We're starting today, actually. Today's Monday. We're starting today on evaluations for next year. You and I are going to get off of the show and we're going to lay out our schedule and go through evaluation. So this is all year long we're doing evaluations and it's what we see in our, you know, leaning on our experience. And then you get closer to the draft and there's some medical stuff and there's some character stuff that you try to like, get a feel of. Is it going to help or hurt players stocks, right? But then there's like two week period leading up to the draft happens and everyone becomes, you know, becomes Peter Schrager and becomes Adam Schefters and Albert Breer, you know, and so that part is, I mean, we have these resources and we have these relationships we've built over so long. But when you have a new general manager like the jets, right? And I know he's not brand new, this is his second draft, but Darren Muji was, is, is relatively new to this and you have the first pick that has been locked in for over a month, right? And obviously the, the Raiders were taking Fernando Mendoza. So it became, all right, who's going number two? And my instinct, my experience of all of it was this information's getting out, but my sort. And I'm going to just lay this out, it's not even a regret. It was fun, it was exciting, and it took us on twists and turns. But the thing that people were kind of banging on me the Most for about 48 hours is when I was like, wait, I'm actually hearing now it's Arvel Reese and we were kind of first to market on David Bailey and the why on David Bailey and he's a proven pass rusher and all that. And I remember even turning to you after those conversations I had the weekend before the draft and being like, it may not make sense to us. But the thinking that I'm hearing from Muji in the building is that Arvel Reese is actually the safer pick for them. And Reese winds up falling to five. And you're looking at me and you're like, I don't agree with that. And I'm, I don't care what you agree with. I don't actually agree with it either because we always talked about bird in hand with, with David Bailey. He's the proven pass rusher. Right. And I've. I got to be really careful here. This is the part that's tricky because if I give any background or mention anything having to do with this source or that source, it will blow this whole thing up and I will lose that. So I got to be very careful here. But let me leave this with. For those people who are. And then people are like, oh, McSh, he's trying to change the lines because FanDuel sponsors this. Like, stop. And I yelled at people about a draft week. Like, I. People come to our folks, come to me. We have an unbelievable partnership with FanDuel. They're all. They, they are the reason we're able to put up the website that we're going to grow into the, the best database that. That's not in the NFL. Like our, I love our partnership with them, but at the end of the day, someone in our group brings me some lines like, hey, what. What stands out? Put out a. Put out a post. You know, that's our partnership. And so I do that. And so some things that jump up. And by the, by the way,
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B
you
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know, I've talked to people like 1400 on Ty Simpson going 13 to the Rams for some people, and they made a lot of money. David Bailey, we were on that real early when it was like plus 460 or plus 600. Okay. But I'm not. I don't know. So the mistake I made was. And it's not a new source, but it's a source. I've never leaned on this heavily because there is a relationship. Okay. I'll leave it at that. Came to me and said, you know, I talked to. And I'm not going to say any names. I talked to and I can't say definitively, but I, I've got a heavy lean. I'm feeling a heavy lean towards Reese. You might want to re. Evaluate that. Well, then on Tuesday, I talked to another person in our industry. This is where it gets messed up. And this part I will share. I talked to another person in our. Who does something Similar to us. They said they spoke to the same exact source I did, and that source told them David Bailey for the same reasons that said source told me it was Arvel Reese. And that's when the flags went off. So then I talked to people that I've leaned on forever and more. Football stuff. Not like, hey, give me. Who's this team picking? Just football guys that, like, I've come to, you know, develop relationships over the years. And it was like, hey, I had the one conversation. I think you remember this. Hey, nobody knows. So if someone's telling you that they know, they don't know. And that's when I, like, the alarm bells went off. I'm like, I'm going back to Bailey because the information we got back then was information when they were making that decision. We also had the Bailey canceling the visit and all that.
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B
So. Yeah.
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A
Well, today's show isn't a go ahead. Hold on.
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B
You open the door here now. And I'm. And now I'm intrigued and I kind of shut it down. If you need to shut it down.
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A
Right.
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B
We're. This is like in the spy craft area of what you do. How do you approach that source going forward now? How do you. Is that right? Yeah. How do you. How do you handle that? I mean, I'm sure this isn't the first time it's happened.
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A
I. I called the source out initially
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to the. To over the phone. I mean, not to their face, but right. Directly to them.
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A
Correct, Correct.
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B
Okay.
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A
And.
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And how did that go?
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No, it must have been a misunderstanding.
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B
Interesting.
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A
Okay. Okay, thank you.
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B
But you can't go back to that source now, is what I'm saying. Right. Like, that's. Is that a source.
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A
That source also had. Had a. It's part of this game. Not game, but part of this whatever. Like you said. What did you call it? Spy.
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B
Like spycraft.
- [09:40]
A
Spycraft is learning what it. Because also got a lot of good information. We traded, like, information that helped, you know, both sides, and that's typically how this goes. Got a lot of good information about other things that led to some. Some things that we were all over. They weren't definitive on that, but like pieces of puzzles to get the picture, you know.
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B
Right.
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A
So you learn. You learn what? You learn two things. You learn what kind of information to lean on certain people. Right. Like certain people know certain organizations or have relationships. So, like, you kind of get a sense. Right. Of. Well, I really trust that. And versus, like. Yeah, okay, that's something I need to, you know, flush out Right. But then the second part of it is there will always be in the conversations moving forward. There will always be. I better double and triple check that before I even, like, bring it up, you know, as a. This is interesting, you know, so, yeah, live and learn. And I don't. Like, I would listen. There are things I have regrets on. There are things that I view as mistakes. This, to me was like, this was fun and it was wild, and it was like. And so you learn from it, and I know exactly how I'm going to utilize it moving forward. But it. It was a. It was wild, you know, and then. And then the accusations on top of it added to it, where I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, But I felt like you were going to do this show today. Let's. Let's start out with the thing that probably for about 48 hours became this, like, groundswell of. Of. And I had executives from my former employment texting me, how strong are you on this? You know? And I'm like, I. I don't know yet. I don't know yet, but it's what I'm hearing. And then I had to circle back and be like, now it's. I'm back to Bailey. So it's just interesting.
- [11:40]
B
It is very interesting. That would. I would not be able to handle it as maturely as you would. I would burn that bridge. That person would never hear from me again.
- [11:47]
A
35 year old. 35 year old. I am, too. But I'm a loyalty guy with those that I have developed loyalty with. Not, you know, and I haven't. So it was my mistake to trust. There were. So there were. Here's the thing. Here's the thing that we all learned in this process. And even in the. In the. In the breeze hall, like, no one knew about that going. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, he signed to an extension. You know, like, yeah, jets are just going to. And so now we all know definitively because it was one thing last year. Were they picking it like, seven? It was one thing last year, and I was wrong on that. But I also was. Didn't have this source. And so I got the sense like this. This jets thing is going to be a struggle, you know, and honestly, good on them. That's an awesome thing. And it's different, you know, so. So I. So if you're jets fans, you love this. Like, they had the first overall pick essentially in this draft from an information standpoint, and they still were like, go fuck yourself. You know,
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B
they were amazing. Yeah.
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A
And I think that's great. And it makes. It is great. And you know what's great?
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B
Set the tone.
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A
They get Set the tone. It's. And it's more about the principle of this. This building is a vault. And now they get three picks in the first round next year and they're going to be quarterback, like, so that's going to make it even more fascinating when you get all these different quarterbacks and they may be leaking out little tidbits here and there. Of no, we. We like Dante more than we like Arch more than we like Carr more than we like, say, you know, so.
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B
Right.
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A
So that's going to be fun, too. I'm here for it. I love the game. I love it. All right. Why don't you kick things off? I just want to get that off my chest.
- [13:43]
B
Well, I'm not going to ignore the elephant in the room. And it's very obvious to anyone who follows our show that we don't agree on everything. And you are really proud of yourself about the Ty Simpson pick. I'm not as high. I obviously wasn't as high. So that's. Let's start there. That's, I think, a good jumping off point for me because you were right about the market, man. You were right about where he was going to go. So good on you. I guess what I'm underestimating and what I. I have underestimated is this kid is so smart and so accurate and so just damn good when he's right, when he's healthy, that the starts don't matter, that the lack of elite mobility don't matter. The elective, the lack of any elite natural skill doesn't matter as much as this kid's ability to decipher defenses, get the ball out quickly and deliver the ball accurately. And I really. That's what it comes down to. Like, that I. I overestimated how important starts are. Now, again, this one's kind of. It's sticking with me a little bit because it's a little bit of a. Let's wait and see.
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A
But how mass. It's a mass.
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B
How dare I question Sean McVeigh? Like in Les Knee. Like, I just don't know.
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A
I. That part makes it harder, right? Because it makes it a lot. It's like when. It's like when Maho. Andy. When. When Mahomes went to Andy Reid with a year behind Alex Smith, it was like, oh, like this is gonna work, you know? So that part makes it more like, this is gonna wind up working, isn't it right. If you're one of those.
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B
I'm talking that I haven't accepted this. But like, I understand.
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A
Here's the thing I want to defend on paper, I get it. Because I was, I was the second highest in our industry, if you will, on, on Tyson.
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B
Right?
- [15:36]
A
Yeah. And it probably, probably was the greatest call of my 26 years when we put out that first mock draft in like December. And my first line was, wait for it, you know. Yep. But even I, as they traded that second, second first round pick for the cornerback with the Chiefs, was like, oh, it's changed and all that. And there was, there was information out there going back to November of like, you know, less is close, less need is close with, with the dad. And, and, and it's, there's word out there that it was like, if he comes out, we're taking him. But everyone assumed, because that was kind of before the slump happened. Down to £190 with gastritis, they trade the second of their two first round picks. And so everyone was kind of like, yeah, I heard that, but. And I was just kind of like, let's hold on, hold on. I'm not sure yet, you know, and then some other information. But there's two parts of it. It's nailing the, the pick.
- [16:47]
B
Right.
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A
And kind of doing the victory lap. But then it's also, I ain't mad at you for your stance and for a lot of other people's stance. Like, he's going to have to be a historical outlier. He's going to go probably because Stafford, it looks at minimum one more year, probably two more years.
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B
Right.
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A
That means after three years of sitting before starting that he's going to enter in a six or seven year span with one year as a starter and really only eight or nine good starts where you're like, that's our guy. That's why we drafted him.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So it's going to be like, let's call it nine starts, where you're like, that's our guy. Going up against all the historical evidence that fewer than 20 starts works.
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B
It's killing me.
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A
It's killing me. He's. And he's going to sit.
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B
Yes.
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A
Is this his fifth year at Alabama or fourth? Why am I blanking on that?
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Fourth.
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Fourth. Yeah, it was his fourth year. That's right. Because he had another. So that's three years of sitting, one year of starting, but only eight or nine games where you're like, that's exactly what I'm drafting. And then two more Years. So it's five out of six years. He's going to enter into seven that seventh year where he was a starter for one year. And so like, I don't know. And, and the weird part is we just got to sit back and wait because I'm. I'm feeling good and beat my chest. Right? Yeah.
- [18:17]
B
Yep.
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A
McVeigh loves him. I've told you so. But then there's the opposite side of we're not going to get an answer to this. And those. For those who are like, I just don't agree with this pick. We're not getting an answer for this probably until 2028 or 2029. You know, wild. It's wild.
- [18:38]
B
Wild. But obviously they see something and obviously it's all of the, all of the, the analytics are great, but they go out the window when an evaluator or a coach sees something different in a player. And that's obviously what's happened here. The tape is really good, man. I agree. The tape is really freaking good. The lack of starts, the lack of an elite natural skill and the, the injury in the frame, I mean it's just all that scares the crap out of me. But again, how, how can you question Sean McVeigh unless need on this one? That's what, that's what I keep coming back to. So that's what I, that's what I started with.
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A
Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to one that's gonna become a personal, not vendetta, a personal lookout for me for the next couple years. Okay. And it's at the edge position where I was higher than most on Zion Young and apparent. The league just told me lower than, than the league on, on Derek Moore, the edge from Michigan. So Zion Young coming out of Missouri. The sack production was not what I, what anyone wants. Right. His run rate, run win rate was 9.3%. You can see him at the Senior Bowl. He was awesome. There you see the length, 33 inch arms he's got. You know, the height. He's 262 pounds. Like this guy's. He looks the part last season, six and a half sacks. It's not atrocious. We've had guys come out with two set like Dion. No. Was it. Was it DeAndre? Well, all right. This, this past year, Yes. Four sacks. I think it was sex in his career and it was two this past year or six in his career. So like we've had worse. Shamar Stewart the year earlier coming out of Texas A and M. This isn't that. But you'd like to see more sack production, right? And he like he. But his. He was eighth of the all the top edge rushers with pass rush win rate was 17.5, but it was still above average for like first rounders over the last several years. Okay. So factoring all that in, he is powerful, he is nasty, he plays with an edge, he is violent. And I think his traits, they translate to the NFL. And I watched Eric Moore, who's got the long arms too, and he's not quite as filled out in his frame, but he's got that same power. And they both did the same thing at the Senior Bowl. They both took that long arm, stood an offensive tackle up and drove them back and just bulldozed them. Right there was like that, that viral moment for both of them. They had. One did it on like a Tuesday, the other did it on a Wednesday, whatever it was.
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B
Right.
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A
And. And so. And you're watching the Senior bowl one on one drills. And so it's not surprising, you know, mentioned they were drafted one pick apart from one another. Love. The thing that. The thing for me is, and this isn't something where it's like I was totally wrong on Zion Young. I had him as a top 50 player. I had him at 35 overall, actually. But I had Derek Moore at 73. And I've got, you know, this, I've got an enormous amount of respect for Brad Holmes. So it's kind of like, oh, McVeigh drafted Tyler. It's like, oh, Brad Holm. And like I was planting the flag that year when we were in Kansas City for the draft is three, what, three years ago now. Jameer Gibbs, right. They drafted the linebacker for my Campbell later on.
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B
Right?
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A
LaPorta. Yeah. So, yeah. But I'm like, get out of here. That. That was a terrible draft. That this is going to be franchise Jack Campbell.
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B
Jack Campbell's a dude.
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A
A dude. So anyway, so when he. When Brad Holmes takes him, I'm like, I wish a GM that like I didn't maybe have hold him to pedestal like, like Brad. And you're looking at him opposite Hutch, right. Like this is probably going to work. But then you're like Baltimore and Dasta and what they've always done. They took one pick later. So this is a personal one for me. I wasn't massively off on either. I was a little higher on Zion than. Than most and I was significantly like, I had Zion as our. If you count Reese, it's 2, 4, 6. I had him as our seventh edge, which sounds like, oh, you didn't love him like this. Edge class was loaded. So I had five other edges between Zion and. And Derek Moore. And so time will tell. Time will tell. And they're both in positions to succeed. They both are. You know, you got. You brought in Hendrickson in Baltimore, that he's a perfect fit in Baltimore. Zion is so both of them. There's no excuses here. If. If Derrick Moore goes on to have a better career in Detroit. I have nothing to excuse except my mis. Evaluation of Derek Moore. So that. That. That one's going to be fun for me. Yeah.
- [24:05]
B
It's interesting how you paired them up, because I wouldn't have done that. I really like both of them, and I was obviously a little high.
- [24:11]
A
I just put them in. I put them in different clusters. You know what I mean?
- [24:15]
B
I know.
- [24:15]
A
And one was, like, firmly in that late first, early second cluster. The other one was like towards the bottom of the next cluster, you know, so that's why it was. It jumped out to me. Yeah.
- [24:28]
B
I love me some Derek Moore, though, so I know you did about it. I was happy about it. Did you know who knew this going into the draft that we were too low on Malachi Lawrence, the edge out of UCF, who went 23rd to Dallas.
- [24:44]
A
We were too low. We were his defense lawyer for like a month and a half, maybe two months.
- [24:50]
B
We kept pushing him.
- [24:51]
A
You started it. I don't wanna. Yeah, I. You started it when we got back and you would watch tape because Nigela Kelly, the other UCF edge, was at the Senior Bowl.
- [25:02]
B
Yeah, I watched.
- [25:03]
A
I just watched the other. And I'm like, all right, I got to get to it. And then he. And. And we had both watched by the combine. We both liked him at that point, but you were like, you were bullish on him. And then he did what he did at the. At the combine, and it was like, whoa. But even then, we were like, yeah, top 50. But I'm not. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. First round. But then even that early in the first round.
- [25:28]
B
Yeah, we had him.
- [25:30]
A
We.
- [25:30]
B
I thought we had. No, it's good. It's 43rd overall is what we ended up with. I felt really good about that. I felt this was a talented, ascending player and why we didn't have him higher. I'll tell you right now, he's. He's 251 pounds. I didn't think he was great against the run. I think he needs to get stronger there. And as much as I Love the motor and the effort of chasing the quarterback and all of his upside in that area. He needs to chill out and. And break down and wrap up and finish. Guys. There were so many mishaps on tape that it was. It got to the point of like, if this guy, if he finished every time he got to the quarterback, the numbers would have been insane. On the plus side, we just talked about the pass rush. I mean, he is explosive. I think he bends pretty well, he's got good length, all of those things. What's interesting to me is they obviously think he can be like, do you take a designated pass rusher? Which I think he kind of will be early in his career, that early. And there's no guarantee he's going to develop into a starter. They obviously feel like develop into an every down player. And they obviously feel that he's going to be that, which is intriguing. I mean, it's exciting and I really like the player, but I was surprised that he went that early. But pass rush over everything, man. Pass rush over everything, right?
- [26:43]
A
Like, it's a weird place. It's a weird place we're both in, but especially you, because you, like, you were the torch bearer on Malachi Lawrence and to see him go that early, you should be like, yeah, I knew it. And you're like, but wait, caution, like, even that's. It should be noted that uc, like his coach at ucf, is now their D line coach. Right?
- [27:06]
B
Yeah.
- [27:06]
A
So there's a. That familiarity. But, yeah, like, that would. This one's a weird one, right? Because it's not.
- [27:16]
B
You got to be honest about it too. Right. Like, recognize as much as we love this player, we also saw a couple of flaws that were preventing us from putting him even higher. It wasn't like we were like banging the drum is from.
- [27:30]
A
If Gay Back is from Illinois, went 18th overall, I'd be like, I knew it. And then I'd be like, but wait, yeah, even this. Even that's early for me, you know?
- [27:40]
B
Right. That's one that jumped out to me as I really like this player. I really hope he does well. But that was. That was even earlier than I expected. I remember that night. It was one of those picks where I was, you know, you're trying to explain the last pick and all this thing, and I'm hitting you on the arm. Can you believe that just happened? Right.
- [28:02]
C
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- [29:33]
A
Drew Aller let's just do it.
- [29:36]
B
Here we go. Yeah,
- [29:40]
A
he's in a really good spot because I think Mike McCarthy Mike McCarthy had some time away from the game. Mike McCarthy has had SEC. Mike McCarthy has had success with quarterbacks and I think he's identified what he's looking for. Right. And as we see and word by the time this show posts like Aaron Rodgers could be back for another year or that thing could blow up. It sounds like he's been in Pittsburgh for a couple few days and now there's speculation on what's going on there. But assuming Aaron's back, this is a good opportunity and even like Drew's not going to be the starter week one. There's mechanical things that have to be worked out with Drew. No question I'm of the belief and this is the disconnect for me it's this and I told you when I did his deep dive and I don't know that I've spent this much time on a quarterback because it was confounding. It was Confusing to me because he's big and he's strong and we know he's not mobile, so just take that off the table. The mobility is not going to improve. But he's this like coordinated, weirdly athletic for kind of slow feet guy. Right. And he's competitive and he's tough and he's. And he runs and he won a lot of games before this year. But then you hear about some of the like, is he gonna like great human being, awesome guy, but is he gonna be the alpha dog and, and like anything to go in there and, and just take it like Tom Brady went in there and took it.
- [31:13]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [31:14]
A
So there's that element of it. But the most important to me is. Or the most. The thing that was the hardest to figure out because a lot of times when guys are off with their mechanics, it's like. Or with their ball placement, it's directly tied to the mechanics. And maybe the long levered guys, their eyes are going, but their feet are back here. And so if you're just listening on, on Apple or wherever your podcast and not watching the video, like the eyes are transitioning from left to progression read one to middle of the field too, to the right. But the feet, when you're kind of the taller, longer levered guys, the feet don't come with. That's what we talk about. You want to marry your eyes with your feet. So your eyes should, if your eyes are moving right, your feet got to be moving right. And in order to get yourself in a loaded position to have the same mechanics with every throw. And Fernando Mendoza is one of the great all time examples of someone who very, very, very, very, very rarely does he not have the same mechanics with the base underneath him. And that's why he's so damn accurate. Right. For a, for a taller quarterback. And so that wasn't even the problem with him. I always, and this was so unique to me that I kept watching and watching and watching him. Like what? And it almost felt like a visualization thing where it wasn't just like deep ball throws or certain throws or it wasn't just his feet married up to his eyes is the problem. It was anytime a receiver was running away from him and it required like throwing to a spot, leading a receiver, his accuracy declined. Excuse me. So drastically that I started to like think through it as a former quarterback and I'm like, maybe it's just a visual visualization thing because there are certain throws you're more comfortable with as a quarterback. Like, I never loved that deep Comeback where it's like the receivers running, kind of faking the post and then darting back to the sideline and there's that like awkward, like, you know. Yeah. And. And so you're having to hit a spot and trust the receiver is going to get there and kind of throw them to the sideline without throwing them out of bounds. It was never my favorite throw, but there were other throws like the post and the in cutters and the, and the post corners that I just like. It was like throwing the ball in the ocean, like just, you know, and so I don't know. I'm. I'm fascinated by it because at the end of the day, I had him at 127 overall and if I'm going to be honest with you, I came up on him because I did recognize like all the positives there. If he was developed properly, he winds up going 76 overall. So I'm fascinated to see what Mike McCarthy and that organization do with Aller and, and if he can become more than just a serviceable backup in the league. Because I have a hard time seeing
- [34:04]
B
that big picture question that I think relates to how you view Aller and how I view the next player. I'm going to talk about, to be honest with you, narratives that develop through the scouting process of this guy's a first round pick, this guy's in, you know, top 10 pick. And when you watch, when you hear, start to hear some of these things in the Twitter mafia, which you tell me, not the draft mafia, you tell me not to look at, but you start hearing some of these things in the media and all of that stuff. For me, there's a backlash right. Of you're, you're out of your mind. Like Kaden Proctor was probably a good example of a player with me where there's a lot of buzz about maybe Kaden Proctor going six and it just didn't make sense in my mind. And. And so do you ever get concerned. I do this with myself. Do you ever get concerned that you are the backlash, the re. The. The response kind of things.
- [34:56]
A
Are you over correcting? And I think I've been, I've been. I'm a fight. A prize fighter who's been worked back in corner.
- [35:05]
B
And that's better way to say it. I like it.
- [35:07]
A
I can't just throw a couple punches and work back into rhythm. I just, I got to fight my ass out of this corner. Right? Yes.
- [35:14]
B
I love it.
- [35:15]
A
I'm not saying I don't because I do. And it's Human instinct.
- [35:21]
B
Right.
- [35:23]
A
I just made it because quarterbacks to me are a little different.
- [35:25]
B
Right.
- [35:26]
A
It's. It's like in the league shows this every year. If they're not a first rounder or maybe early, early second, then I'll get to them in the fourth round, you know. And so my view was. And essentially if I don't, if I don't see the path to them becoming a starter, I've got other starters. I got to get in the second and third round. I'll get to them in the fourth. And that's where I put him that. So initially though, I gave him like a fifth, sixth. And I, and I recognized it was me throwing too many punches too hard.
- [35:59]
B
Wailing.
- [36:00]
A
Yeah. To try to be like is, am I. Am I on crazy pills? Because anyone else actually watching the tape, are they just going off of what maybe the National Blessedo scouting grades.
- [36:11]
B
Right.
- [36:11]
A
Preseason and so yes, I did. But then I, I think you could probably remember identify the time where I was like, I've come like I've now settled in on where I truly believe he belongs. If nobody else was in and 127 overall, which is middle of the fourth round was where I settled. But it's a very, very astute point by you, having gone through as many of these as I have.
- [36:36]
B
Yeah. Let's get to it. Generian Price, Notre Dame running back, Seattle's 32nd overall pick. I, I'm wondering if that's a little bit of what's going on with, with me in engineering Price, because I don't get it. I just don't get first round for a guy that wasn't, you know, who's productive with the touches he got and was a good kickoff returner, but doesn't have great size, doesn't have elite speed. I mean high four four is good speed, but doesn't, you know, he runs better on tape seemingly, but I don't see he didn't like back that up with a blazing fast time at the combine. He was always Jeremiah Love. I just don't see a guy that you would use a first round pick on. I also didn't like his running style. I think it's a little bit. It's not. He doesn't dance, but it's a little east west. He's always trying to take an angle instead of getting north south in my mind. And again, doesn't have elite power. There's nothing about his game that I was like first round backs man. Like first round back should be. Should have some kind of A superpower. And I just didn't see it with Price. I never did. But that being said, maybe it was the, the idea of putting him in the first round that pissed me off so much because when I look back at it, I do think he's clearly the second best back in this class. I do like Mike Washington from Arkansas and for a long time had him ahead of Price. The league spoke on that. I mean, Washington wasn't even the third back to go. The league clearly saw Price on a different level. It's one that I'm going to look back at and I'm going to be interested in. And Zach Charbonnet for Seattle, coming off a knee injury and the one two punch that they could have with those two talented backs is going to be interesting to see how that develops. But it's the whole first round pick for Generian. Price drove me crazy and of course it ended up happening. But maybe, maybe I need to take a step back and realize he's a little better than I realize. And in this class, that's not the worst thing that they could have done. There
- [38:36]
A
it was Jonah Coleman, the third back.
- [38:38]
B
I think he was, yeah, he was
- [38:40]
A
in the four, but it was the fourth round, so it was a clear difference. Clear.
- [38:45]
B
The. The.
- [38:46]
A
Clearly, today is not about defending one another.
- [38:49]
B
You know who the third third back was, by the way?
- [38:52]
A
Who?
- [38:52]
B
Kaylin Black on the third round.
- [38:55]
A
That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. That was an interesting one, too. Another guy that we loved, but not, not to that level. Does it make it any better that Schneider wanted to move back 32 from 32 to. To get him at a more reasonable price, like 38 or 40 in the early second round, but just there was no trade to be had at that point.
- [39:20]
B
I want to say no, it shouldn't, it shouldn't matter. But it probably. Let's put it this way.
- [39:26]
A
Where would you have drafted Jadarian? Like you're, you're my general manager, I'm director of scouting. I come in and I, and I say I had him top 50, but in like the 40s, you know.
- [39:38]
B
Yeah.
- [39:39]
A
Where, where. But you're in control. This is your draft room, your career, your family. Where would you have been comfortable taking him knowing you have a running back need late second. Yeah.
- [39:52]
B
Problem is like, yeah, it's a full round for me. It really is. But again, now we're getting, it's interesting the players that we're picking and from the teams that have picked them. Right. So it's Snyder. It's, it's. This guy has a pretty good track record of building a roster, man. Like, and, and I'm not, I, we can't do this thing. We just talked about like, you know, realizing when maybe you are fighting back against a narrative and course correcting a little too much.
- [40:21]
A
Yeah.
- [40:21]
B
As we get older, these are things that you recognize. And I'm not going to be the guy who's going to be like, I know better than Schneider. Like, I just, Yeah, I don't.
- [40:30]
A
With his two super bowl rings on his.
- [40:33]
B
Yeah, yeah. He's like tapping them on the table. Hey man, you didn't like the pick?
- [40:37]
A
Yeah. You don't. You know what I mean?
- [40:39]
B
So, yeah, like that's, these are the things that are going to stick out to me. Like, these are the things that are going to jump out to me. So we'll like, we'll see.
- [40:50]
A
I'm going to give you a couple fourth rounders real quickly because I, I, I don't think we have to, but the two guys had kind of like, it pissed me off a little bit when it happened. One a little less than the other. But Bryce Lance, the wide receiver from, from North Dakota State, he would, he was picked 136 overall. So you're talking late. There was only I think 141, like one pick. 141, I think was the last pick in the fourth round. So he was like late, late fourth. Okay. Almost a fifth round pick. More importantly to me. And I had him at 81 overall. Okay. I just see, I see potential in him. I see that vertical presence, the height at 6:3 plus the speed. You know what even like a 4, 3, 2.
- [41:39]
B
Yep.
- [41:40]
A
I just, so, so I'm thrilled that the Saints took him. I'm thrilled for Tyler Schuck. I think there's going to be one wind up being a really great value for them. But the league spoke and that's what's kind of getting under my skin because it wasn't like he just, he went 40 picks later, in this case, 55 picks later. But the run on, but the run on wide receivers just happened to start, you know that, that tier of wide receivers happened to start later. It wasn't that much. No. I, I had him at wide receiver 15 in a loaded receiver group. He went wide receiver 21. And here are some guys that, some names that you know how like you hear guys like they, they write it down their locker or they, they've got in their journal of like every, you know. And I know Brady had it and there's a bunch of other. Amanra Saint Brown has got his name.
- [42:36]
B
Brown, famously, you can literally walk down
- [42:38]
A
the street, see him on the street and be like, what? Give me the wide receivers or draft ahead of you. And like, bang.
- [42:43]
B
Right, Right.
- [42:45]
A
So this is the list I'm going to keep in my. In my desk drawer right here. Okay.
- [42:49]
B
Okay.
- [42:51]
A
Caleb Douglas, Jacoby Lane, Xavion Thomas. Brennan Thompson. Two speedsters.
- [43:00]
B
Right.
- [43:00]
A
To the fastest guys. The fastest guy and either the second or third fastest guy at the combine, which, you know, I'm not a fan of Skyler Bell, who I actually was one of the last players I watched tape on, like to make sure as I was going back and doing the cluster of receivers and the fact that an NFL team viewed Skyler Bell. And I recognize you're. These are slots and vertical guys. They're looking for different things. But the concept of me sitting here in this office with the lit. The. The lights darkened and I'm got this remote right here and I'm sitting here and I've got family downstairs. I could be doing all these other things and I'm trying to make sure that this is right. And I'm like back and forth and Skyler Bell and Brendan Thompson and I like those guys. I like Brendan Thompson. Nobody but that Lance went. So I'm going to keep an eye on that. Here's the other one. In the fourth round, two picks later, Kyle Lewis goes to the Dolphins.
- [43:57]
B
I knew this was coming.
- [43:59]
A
I had him at 64, bro.
- [44:02]
B
Yeah.
- [44:03]
A
And I'm not backing off now. Obviously this organization is going to go through some bumps and bruises and he's undersized and I get all that. But the same thing happened with Zach Thomas. The same thing happened with, oh, London Fletcher. The same. There's been undersized.
- [44:20]
B
The.
- [44:20]
A
The Chiefs guy who I absolutely loved. Why am I blanking? The Chiefs late first round pick. I think he was a 32nd overall pick.
- [44:29]
B
Not Nick Bolton, right?
- [44:30]
A
Yeah. Nick Bolton. Now he wasn't none of those. Those. The first two were just. Were short. All three of them were shorter. He's more lean frame. The end of the day, it's all the same to me. Like some guys just have the instinct to overcome their size.
- [44:45]
B
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
Flag. And this guy's as instinctive as I've seen in a few years in terms of like the coverage you see around the Senior Bowl. He was every single practice picking off balls first to the drill, knocking balls loose as you saw there, forcing fumbles like he's Just a playmaker. And so I'm going to keep a track on Kyle Lewis. I had him as Linebacker 5. He went Linebacker 12. You tell me what. As you tell me Wood as from Clemson, there's a better ricochet shot for Wade Wood as you're telling me Kendall Daniels is a better football player than Kyle Lewis. Like, so I'm keeping two lists in this desk drawer and it's the linebacker list and the wide receiver list from the 2026 draft. And then maybe 2029, I'm going to pull that list out, I'm going to dust it off a little bit, and we're going to revisit it. Maybe, maybe I, maybe I. The league gets the last laugh. But the league spoke and I was wrong on both Bryce Lance and Kyle Lewis.
- [45:49]
B
What are the NFL exec tell you at the Senior bowl about Kyle Lewis? Some guys, they get out here, I hope you remember the quote, because it was great, but it was like sometimes they get guys out here and you just see that they're different in terms of their instincts. Like they, they just have more.
- [46:04]
A
But the thing, the thing, the quote I got from an executive about Bud Clark and Kyle Lewis was, what did we expect? He just turned to me, he's like. Because we had just like an interception. It just happened from Bud Clark two plays after Kyle Lewis. And he just turned to me, he's like, what would people expect it would be any different? They're good that they're going to come out here and not be the best players on the field. Like, that's who, that's just who they are, you know? And I was like, you know, yeah, that was it. Any more for you?
- [46:37]
B
I'll go really quickly here because this is a get over it match. Chase Passantis, 34th pick overall Arizona Cardinals I'm glad, listen, I'm glad that Keelan Rutledge out of Georgia Tech was the second guard to go off the board to Houston. I think that was the right call that this is a range.
- [46:55]
A
This is not dissimilar from Derek Moore versus Zion Young. For me, this is an Emanuel pregnant versus Basant us.
- [47:03]
B
Yes, but I wasn't gonna say it, but that's fine. I mean, the league spoke me pregnant with the third to Jacksonville and Chase Passantis went 34th overall. And I was, I felt like alone. I felt like it was an island with the Santis. A lot of the, the process. There's a lot of people that really liked him. A lot of people I respect that loved him and I Just I couldn't get the Miami tape out of my head and the short arms and all that. But now you're getting a guy 34th overall. It's early, but it's still second round. Who, if, if you put, if you force me to, to answer, I would say this guy has a chance to be like an 8 to 12 year starter and maybe never an all pro guy, but a really good player. And at that spot in the drafts, maybe we get over it, men. Maybe, maybe you get over it and realize that because you had a certain player, Emmanuel, pregnant out of Oregon who's going to be an absolute stud ranked ahead of this guy, doesn't mean, doesn't mean that he's not a good player too.
- [48:03]
A
This, this show, I love how you
- [48:05]
B
sniffed that out, by the way.
- [48:07]
A
This show is as much about coming clean and admitting our faults as it is. As it is getting our final shots in and you know. Yeah, you know, and then also taking, you know, take printing some receipts to hold on to, you know, fine, you got me for now. But let's see. Yeah, check back in. Speaking of receipts, I'm excited and we're going to be back on, on, on Thursday. I'm excited. We're the, our crew is going to do a fantasy football. We're gonna, we're, we're diving in this year because it's time to compete, man.
- [48:47]
B
And so we're gonna, It's a soul sucking endeavor fantasy.
- [48:51]
A
But I want, I want the audience to, to get involved. I'm not sure exactly how. I don't know if we're going to take a member from, from the audience to be in our league. I want, I want suggestions for our league name. I mostly want suggestions for what the, the winner should receive and even more so what, what the, the punishment for the loser. So we're going to make this interactive but, but we're gonna, we're not gonna become a fantasy football show. I'm not saying that, but we are going to start diving into kind of the rookie stuff in terms of fantasy football. Yeah. On Thursday. It's a, it's a good tool as we kind of wrapping up some of the 2026 NFL Draft stuff. As I already mentioned, we're starting in on evaluations for 2027. Like people are so fired up about this class and for college football it's starting in early September. Like I can't remember talking to people in the league, talking to other, you know, friends in this industry. Like there is so much excitement for this class and I know we share that, so. So there's definitely some transitioning we're going to do. But before we do that, I want to start getting to the bottom of what this fantasy football team or my team and this league is going to look like and start, like doing some rookie projections for some of these players. So when we're back. But Mensch, I know this was a tough one for both of us. I hope people enjoyed us having to admit our faults. But as always, five stars, sir.
- [50:15]
B
Thanks, man.
- [50:17]
A
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- [51:09]
B
There.