The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 855: Clay's Utah Mountain Lion Hunt | 12 in '26

Date: March 31, 2026
Host: Clay Newcomb (Guest Host; Steven Rinella not present), with Josh “Landbridge” Spillmaker
Theme: An in-depth, behind-the-scenes look at Clay Newcomb’s Utah mountain lion hunt, as part of MeatEater’s new “12 in ‘26” long-form film series. The episode covers the realities of mountain lion hunting with hounds, conservation complexities in Utah’s newly liberalized mountain lion regulations, interplay with mule deer and elk management, and the natural and ethical questions surrounding predator hunting in the West.

Episode Overview

This episode features Clay Newcomb unpacking his recent Utah mountain lion hunt, covered in MeatEater’s “12 in ‘26” film series. Co-hosted with Josh Spillmaker, the show dives deeply into dry ground lion hunting, the legacies of legendary houndsmen like the Mechams and Ty Evans, the rugged landscapes of Utah, the intricate breeding and maintenance of superior lion dogs, and the ongoing debate around predator management and wildlife conservation in the West. Interspersed throughout are listener questions, behind-the-scenes details, and candid reflections on the ethics and realities of both lion hunting and contemporary wildlife management.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The “12 in ‘26” Film Series – Purpose & Approach

• Long-Form Commitment:
  Clay highlights how "12 in ‘26" commits the MeatEater team to releasing 12 feature-length films in 2026, each offering a deeper, richer narrative than weekly video episodes.
  “This year we’re putting out 12 long-form films. Not episodes, not videos, not clips. Films.” (03:05 – Clay)

• Companion Podcast Strategy:
  The podcast serves as a space to share the stories, and fill in the gaps that film alone can’t capture, helping listeners experience the hunt beyond the screen.
  “You can go on some big expedition and make a 20 minute film and it honestly doesn’t capture the full story as, as if you were just sitting there listening to me talk.” (03:41 – Clay)

2. Dry Ground Lion Hunting Explained

• Defining “Dry Ground” Hunting:

  • Most lion hunts in the US involve hounds, and most success has historically relied on snow to help hold a scent. Dry ground lion hunting (i.e., without snow) greatly increases the challenge, requiring elite dogs and handlers.
    “In the hound world, the dry ground lion dogs are the Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James...” (08:35 – Clay)

• Rarity and Esteem:

  • Dry ground houndsmen, like the Mecham family, occupy a revered place among sportsmen.
    “And the Mechams are nationally known and respected as incredible dry ground lion hunters. And I’m telling you, they made it look easy.” (10:41 – Clay)

3. The Hunt: Terrain, Mules, and the Legendary Mecham Dogs

• The Utah Backcountry & Riding:

  • Clay describes the rigors of riding 80+ miles through challenging terrain on sturdy mules, relying on their sure-footedness.
    “Carried Lauren Molton 80 miles. And you know, not like 80 trail miles—80 miles of up and down and elevation gain and skidding down mountains. I mean rough.” (13:20 – Clay)

  • Noteworthy: McLean Mecham’s 25-year-old mule still carrying loads across those miles.

• Hound Breeding and Performance:

  • The Mecham dogs are a product of generations of careful selective breeding, purposely producing medium-weight, athletic hounds with “cold noses” and the drive to stay the course on faint, old lion trails.
    “Three quarters of a century of selective breeding by the Mechams…You’d have to sell your truck to buy one if they were ever for sale.” (14:07 – Clay)

• Dog Management on the Hunt:

  • Dogs are “free cast,” working off-leash and guided by vocal commands and GPS collars—navigating a fine line between autonomy and control.
    “They want them to stay fairly close…so they can go over to where the dog is barking and see if they can physically see a track.” (27:03 – Clay)

4. Ethics and Reality of Hound Hunting

• Skill and Tradition:

  • Clay pushes back on critics of hound hunting, arguing it’s among the most primitive and demanding hunting techniques, rich with history and skill.
    “I would say that hunting with hounds is actually the most primitive method of hunting … it’s super hard, man.” (16:29 – Clay)

• Reward for Dogs:

  • Even when game is passed on, the reward for the dogs is the chase itself and the “sight” of the lion tree’d, not necessarily the kill.
    “I think the reward for those dogs is just to look at it and see it up in the tree.” (36:16 – Clay)

5. Conservation Debate: Utah’s Predator Management

• Dramatic Rule Changes:

  • Utah’s newly open rules permit lions to be hunted and trapped year-round with no quotas—no tags even required for non-residents (just a license).
    “In the last year, Utah has opened up mountain lion hunting to the widest gate possible. It’s a year-round season, there’s no quotas, you don’t have to have a tag… Even as a non resident, all I had to do was buy a hunting license.” (41:15 – Clay)

• Controversy & Conservation Voices:

  • Utah’s changes are driven in part by mule deer declines, suggesting lion predation is a limiting factor, but houndsmen and biologists are deeply skeptical.

  • Featured quote from Mike Bodenchuk, carnivore specialist:
    “He doesn't think that this [open season] is sustainable ... he was like, well, I don't think it's sustainable.” (46:04 – Clay)

  • Additional perspectives note that lions are just one piece in a complex puzzle including drought, highways, habitat loss, and other predators like coyotes, which heavily impact mule deer fawns.

• Listener Comments Reflect Broader Concerns:
  “As a Utah hunter, I appreciate you guys bringing awareness to our backwards approach to predator management. Killing lions to help mule deer is like putting water on a grease fire.” (53:43 – Austin Sikich, listener comment)

  • The need for habitat conservation and better regulation of hunting tags is also discussed as more effective interventions than removing predators.

6. The Hunts: Story Highlights & Reflection

• Success and Rarity:

  • The crew treed three lions in five days—an exceptionally rare accomplishment, especially on dry ground.
    “For us to treat three in five days was—you couldn't have asked for anything better.” (12:18 – Clay)

• Ethical Decision-Making:

  • Clay passed on shooting two sub-adult males and a female, electing to only take a mature tom—emphasizing conservation and “code of the West” ethics.
    “So the only lion that is illegal to take on the current structure is you cannot shoot a female with kittens...But in general, guys are after the males.” (67:54 – Clay)

  • The group’s hunting ethos aligned with not shooting females or young cats, prioritizing future population health.

• Behind the Scenes & Memorable Moments:

  • A lost Osmo camera remains out in the Utah backcountry, a bit of “easter egg” for anyone who may find it (23:40 – Clay).
  • Technical challenges filming in treacherous terrain brings new appreciation for the camera crew's skills and endurance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “In the hound world, the dry ground lion dogs are the Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James of …the hound world.” (08:35 – Clay)
• “When you’re following hounds, you go places that you would have never gone otherwise. You just have to go where they go, right? And so you find yourself in all kind of just places that just are off, literally off the beaten path.” (27:17 – Clay)
• “You load up a pack of hounds and try to go out to Utah by yourself and tree a line. Good luck.” (17:20 – Clay)
• “When you drop off in this little canyon, we’re going to pull up and there’ll be a big bluff, and behind that bluff is a set of pine trees, and that’s where those cats like to mark…he knew exactly—topographic memory of just every detail of the land.” (29:00 – Clay on McLean Mecham)
• “Utah is a trophy elk and mule deer state, big time. They also have about 3,000 mountain lions…So that’s one mountain lion for every hundred deer.” (41:15 – Clay)
• “If there were no lions in Utah, there would be more mule deer. Right? I mean period. Yeah, but so it’s like, it raises the question do we want a Utah with no mountain lions? And I think the answer in 2026 to, to the modern sportsman is no.” (49:22 – Clay)
• “Not everybody in the world gets to do what we do…whatever version of your excursion into the wild, whatever version that is, is awesome, whether you're squirrel hunting or small game hunting or whitetail hunting.” (74:07 – Clay, closing thoughts)

Important Timestamps

• [01:11] – Opening audio from the hunt and context for the “12 in ‘26” series
• [06:08] – Clay’s detailed preamble on dry ground lion hunting
• [14:07] – Selective breeding and hound characteristics, Mecham dogs legacy
• [16:29] – Refuting critics of hound hunting
• [27:02] – Methods for running hounds and managing the chase
• [30:34] – First lion treed, discussion on rarity and decision to pass on the shot
• [39:35] – Conservation and Utah’s liberalized lion hunting regulations
• [45:03] – The impact of coyotes, climate, and habitat on mule deer populations
• [53:43] – Listener question spotlighting predator management debate (“like putting water on a grease fire”)
• [67:32] – The last lion of the hunt, Waylon the hound’s solo performance
• [69:10] – Reflection on the decision not to shoot the earlier cat
• [73:40] – Clay’s closing thoughts on stewardship of hunting, ethics, and outdoor legacy

Final Reflection

Clay closes with gratitude for the opportunities to tell these stories and to hunt—emphasizing the ethical, knowledgeable, and responsible stewardship crucial in this cultural moment for American sportsmen. He celebrates all forms of responsible outdoor pursuit, urging listeners to cherish wild places and the traditions of hunting, whether in backyards or remote mountains.

For those looking to watch the accompanying film or learn more:

• The “12 in ‘26” lion hunt film is available on the MeatEater YouTube channel.
• The companion podcast digs into details and insights not found in the visual narrative.
• Upcoming episodes and films will further explore the ethic, adventure, and natural realities that define the modern sporting life.

Credits and Acknowledgments

• Hosts: Clay Newcomb, Josh Landbridge Spillmaker
• Guests Referenced: McLean & Hunter Mecham, Ty Evans, Mike Bodenchuk (biologist), Lauren Molton (camera)
• Production: The MeatEater Podcast Network
• Listener Comments from YouTube and Instagram throughout

Resource Links

• MeatEater YouTube
• MeatEater Store

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