Ep. 870: Chimp Wars, Cocaine Hippos, and Steve Destroys Animal Rights People

Summary

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The MeatEater Podcast — Episode 870

“Chimp Wars, Cocaine Hippos, and Steve Destroys Animal Rights People”

Host: Steven Rinella
Guests/Cast: Seth Morris, Brody Henderson, Randall, Spencer, Corinne, Katie Lane

Date: April 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and wide-ranging episode, Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew mix humor, news, and hard-hitting commentary on everything from cattle ranching to weaponized tungsten, chimpanzee civil wars, and controversial animal rights legislation in Colorado. The team interviews Montana rancher Katie Lane about innovative business approaches in beef, breaks down hot-button conservation and hunting news, and runs a unique segment on “cocaine hippos” and chimpanzee warfare. Throughout, the cast skewers ill-considered activist efforts with sharp facts and irreverent wit.

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Table of Contents

1. Opening Banter & Family Updates (00:05)
2. Save Tuckertown Land Trust Update (05:22)
3. Feature Interview: Modern Ranching with Katie Lane (07:36)
4. Wildlife Calendar Mishaps & Conservation Jokes (20:28)
5. Tungsten Shortages: Tanks vs. Turkeys (26:47)
6. Deep Dive: Colorado Animal Rights & Fur Sale Ban (31:10)
7. Federal Conservation Funding News (70:44)
8. Chimpanzee Civil War: A Field Report (78:50)
9. The Cocaine Hippo Crisis (87:07)
10. Bear Incidents & Dangerous Wildlife (96:04)
11. Hunter Trampled by Elephants—Media Reaction (99:19)
12. Notable Quotes

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Opening Banter & Family Updates (00:05)

• Seth Morris returns from paternity leave with stories about his new (very fast-growing) son, named Virgil.
• Cast jokes about baby growth rates and turkey hunting outings with infants.
  • “He gained like 18 ounces in a week…” (Seth, 01:46)
• Steven shares a “house cat jerky” story involving his kids—emphasizing kids’ literal interpretations.
• Recap of a reader-submitted photo showing a 3-year-old holding a shotgun, poking fun at exaggerated hunting tales.

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Save Tuckertown Land Trust Update (05:22)

• Randall provides an update on the Save Tuckertown campaign, aiming to keep North Carolina land accessible for public recreation.
  • “Mediator and OnX are matching every dollar given…right now there’s been $103,580 raised.” (Randall, 06:59)
• Cast jokes about lacking a sufficiently “impassioned plea.”
• Steven, tongue-in-cheek: “I want you to bring some Jerry Lewis… some telethon music running in the background.” (07:19)

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Feature Interview: Modern Ranching with Katie Lane (07:36)

Katie Lane (owner, Lane Legacy Beef) discusses how her Montana family ranch pivoted to grass-fed, direct-to-consumer beef and snack sticks:

• Traditional Model: Historically, the ranch was a standard “cow-calf operation,” raising and selling calves to feedlots.
• Pivot to Direct Sales: Covid spiked demand for home-cooked, trusted beef. Katie launched direct-to-consumer sales, starting with friends and farmers’ markets.
  • “Covid hits…People want to know what’s in their food…Filling freezers. The grocery store shelves are empty…” (Katie, 09:42)
  • “I developed a logo and started building a website to tell our story…” (Katie, 10:44)
• Grass-Fed Niche: Set up a separate, AGA-certified grass-fed operation, processed at USDA-inspected facilities.
• Growth via Value-Added Products: Innovated with snack sticks and jerky for retail; Shelf-stable products grew rapidly.
  • “Now I’m not having to transport frozen meat. And we got into…over a hundred retail locations.” (Katie, 12:17)
  • “Town Pump carries our beef sticks. Which is great…” (Katie, 12:18)
• Distribution: Delivers across Montana’s I-90/I-94 corridor to restaurants, stores, and direct customers.
• Tech on the Ranch: Recently started using virtual fencing with GPS collars for precise, humane cattle movement.
  • “You can literally pick up the virtual boundary and shift it over…and they start walking.” (Katie, 18:04)
• Closing Thoughts & Contact:
  • “LaneLegacyBeef.com …We ship all over the country as far as the smoked products…” (Katie, 19:26)

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Wildlife Calendar Mishaps & Conservation Jokes (20:28)

• Humorous riff on MeatEater’s upcoming “ugliest calendar ever” featuring wildlife diseases (“A disturbing photo of a wildlife disease every month.” – Steven, 21:04)
• Discovery of a typo: Cinco de Mayo listed as “May 4th” on their team calendar, leading to group banter on cultural competence.
  • “For you people that don’t speak Spanish…Cinco de Mayo translates to the 5th of May.” (Steven, 22:27)

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Tungsten Shortages: Tanks vs. Turkeys (26:47)

• Steven details why tungsten hunting ammo has become unaffordable:
  • “All the cool kids…hunt turkeys with something called tungsten super shot…Now it’s about $11 to pull the trigger.” (Steven, 26:47)
• Reveals military demand—particularly Abrams tank canister rounds—drives up costs for hunters and fly-fishers.
  • “A can round fired from an Abrams tank contains 1,104 aught buck tungsten pellets…at 4.5 times the speed of sound.” (Steven, 28:51)
• Dive into terminology (sabot/sabo), and community impacts of munitions demand.

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Deep Dive: Colorado Animal Rights & Fur Sale Ban (31:10)

Setting the Scene

• Recap of the Colorado Parks & Wildlife Commission’s recent proposal to ban the sale/barter of wild furbearer parts.
• Explores influence and tactics of activist Samantha Miller and the Center for Biological Diversity.
• Host’s critique: Modern animal rights campaigns use regulatory levers to override voter intent and corner commissions with non-enforceable or poorly conceived rules.

Key Points

Regulatory and Philosophical Critique

• The ban is opposed by agency directors for lack of evidence, ambiguous enforcement, and negligible conservation benefit.
  • “Petitioners couldn’t demonstrate any decline in fur bearing animals…It cited misleading research…” (Steven, 35:31)
• Deep dive into how modern commissions are being “stacked” with animal rights advocates via gubernatorial appointments, disrupting traditional resource management.

Agency vs. Activist Logic

• The activists’ logic: “Wildlife should not be for sale.”
• Steve counters:
  • “Different wildlife has different conservation histories. Game animals became a no sale item; furbearing animals never went through a collapse that necessitated it.” (Steven, 57:04)
  • “If you were interested in biodiversity, you would be…doing habitat work. You wouldn’t be messing around with striped skunk protections…” (Steven, 50:15)

Memorable Quotes (activist critique)

• “I don’t believe carnivores need to be killed, period. Like, that’s just where I’m at.” – Samantha Miller (59:09)
• “People that hunt predators for fun have a very specific personality type that I would not want to be around by myself…” – Samantha Miller (61:14)
• Group lampoons the “need vs. want” hunting argument: What then of fishing, turkey, or pheasant hunting, which lack a management ‘need’?

Ethics & Transparency

• Audio leak exposes activists coaching commissioners in advance, prepping responses to public comment—indicating disturbing collusion and policy capture.
  • “She’s explicitly confirming that she has pre-briefed Colorado park and Wildlife commissioners on the content of public testimony they will hear.” (Steven, 65:04)

Call to Action

• “If you’re in Colorado, go to Grand Junction on May 6 and 7 and make some noise.” (Brody, 70:29)

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Federal Conservation Funding News (70:44)

• Good news: USDA’s NRCS announces $52 million for increasing public access to private lands for hunting and fishing.
• Bad news: Proposed 2027 federal budget cuts could gut key conservation programs—eliminating whole agencies, sharply reducing wetlands and wildlife funding.
  • “If you want to check out the list in detail of these proposed guts, go to the Wildlife Society’s webpage…” (Brody, 74:47)
• Steven: “It’s going to be a messy process… Interior is less than 1%…some are getting eliminated by a hundred percent.” (75:19)

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Chimpanzee Civil War: A Field Report (78:50)

The Science

• Randall explains new research on an 8-year-long “civil war” in Africa’s largest chimpanzee community (Ngogo, Kibale forest).
• Two interconnected chimp groups splintered due to social-structural shifts, eventually waging violent raids: killing adults and infants.
  • “This is the first time…lethal conflict has been observed among once affiliated non-human groups, in the absence of cultural markers often thought necessary for warfare.” (Randall, 80:35)

The Satire

• “Field report” from First Sergeant Knuckles—an emotional, faux-Ken Burns letter home from the chimpanzee front:
  • “Chimp genitals torn from their chimp genital places... The men now whisper of infants struck down in their innocence...” (First Sergeant Knuckles, 81:09)
• Cast marvels at the brutality and notes this is not influenced by human feeding (bananas), as in earlier studies.

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The Cocaine Hippo Crisis (87:07)

• Spencer delivers the story of Colombia’s invasive “cocaine hippos”—descendants of Pablo Escobar’s private zoo.
  • “By 2007, those four hippos turned into 16…by 2019…120…now estimated at 200.” (Spencer, 90:47)
• Hippos are dramatically reshaping Colombian waterways, threatening native species.
• Attempts at sterilization, translocation, and now euthanasia—all with mixed results; an Indian billionaire offers to move 80 hippos.
  • “The hippos will exceed 1,000 in the next decade…” (Spencer, 91:05)
• Noted that the hippo presence is deterring illegal fishing in some areas.

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Bear Incidents & Dangerous Wildlife (96:04)

• Corinne shares a PSA: Six incidents involving black bears in Great Smoky Mountains NP in one weekend, including a visitor being bitten.
  • “If they're dangerous, they will euthanize black bears.” (Corinne, 99:19)
• Cast discusses urban bear issues and the surprising bear attack stats for Tennessee.

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Hunter Trampled by Elephants—Media Reaction (99:19)

• Steven covers the story of a California hunter killed by elephants in Gabon—not while hunting elephants, but while pursuing other game.
  • “Millionaire US big game hunter trampled to death by elephants…” (Steven, 101:32)
• Criticism of UK and activist media gleefully framing it as “justice,” emphasizing the individual's wealth, and noting this tactic for both men and women in high-profile hunting deaths.
• Cast points out double standards and the absence of empathy.

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Notable Quotes

On Animal Rights Campaigns

• “If you were interested in biodiversity, you would be…doing habitat work. You wouldn’t be messing around with striped skunk protections…”
  — Steven Rinella (50:15)

• “I don’t believe carnivores need to be killed, period. Like, that’s just where I’m at.”
  — Samantha Miller, activist (via Steven, 59:09)

• “If there’s no need, why have it?”
  — Samantha Miller’s philosophy, critiqued (62:31)

• “Game animals became a no sale item; furbearing animals never went through a collapse that necessitated it.”
  — Steven Rinella (57:04)

On Chimp Civil War

• “Chimp genitals torn from their chimp genital places. How awful that the opposable thumbs we have been blessed with by our creator are now used for such unspeakable acts…”
  — First Sergeant Knuckles (81:09)

• “Based on genetic evidence, they believe chimpanzee communities split apart every 500 years…”
  — Randall (83:23)

On Ranching Innovation

• “We just started doing virtual fencing…We can move them with the push of a button on our cellphone.”
  — Katie Lane (18:04)

On Tungsten for Tanks

• “A can round fired from an Abrams tank contains 1,104 aught buck tungsten pellets…at 4.5 times the speed of sound.”
  — Steven Rinella (28:51)

On Public Action

• “If you’re in Colorado, go to Grand Junction on May 6 and 7 and make some noise.”
  — Brody Henderson (70:29)

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Memorable/Funny Moments

• Satirical “Ken Burns/First Sergeant Knuckles” letter from the chimp civil war (81:00)
• Airing of the beef stick and virtual fencing stories from Katie Lane (12:17, 18:04)
• Steven’s mock-heroic efforts to kill unwanted products by making a calendar of “wildlife diseases” (21:04)
• The exasperation over calendar mistakes: “Cinco de Mayo is on May 4th—in our calendar!” (22:20)

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For Listeners New to The MeatEater Podcast
This episode provides a sharp snapshot of the show’s eclectic style: expert outdoor news, deep conservation analysis, off-kilter humor, and a willingness to take on controversial activist campaigns—all with a tone that’s irreverent, skeptical, and well-informed.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Katie Lane]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Steven Rinella]

Welcome to the news show, everybody. This week we've got cows, not condos. A bit about house cat jerky. Army tanks are using up all the turkey ammo. Randall covers a chimpanzee war. An American hunter is killed by elephants. Spencer covers a war on cocaine, hippos, and more, including for real this time. We cover the ongoing goofiness and cluelessness of Colorado's animal rights movement. But first, Seth Morris is back from his year long paternity leave. He has a new baby.

[Seth Morris]

I do. Yeah, a new baby. Kept me up all night last night.

[Steven Rinella]

Tell everybody about that baby. It's the only kid in America named Virgil.

[Seth Morris]

Yep, Virgil. It's an old timey name that we're bringing back.

[Steven Rinella]

Virgil Morris.

[Spencer]

Virgil Cain.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, he didn't get that joke. Okay.

[Seth Morris]

No, no.

[Steven Rinella]

Right.

[Seth Morris]

I didn't get it right away.

[Steven Rinella]

Sent me the sign right away. My buddy, my buddy Andy goes, does he ride the Danville train? He comes over, we're like, does he ride the Danville train over his head? He thought about it, man. He goes, someone else made that joke. It was Spencer. Virgil Cain is my name.

[Seth Morris]

Yep. No, Virgil, He's. He's two months old now. And yeah, he's doing good. He's. So our pediatrician said he is the fastest growing baby she's ever seen.

[Steven Rinella]

Wow. How long she been in the biz?

[Seth Morris]

I. I didn't ask her.

[Steven Rinella]

That'd be the first thing I'd ask. How big? Like, be like, we're going, how far back did you start last week?

[Randall]

I'd get that in writing.

[Steven Rinella]

She.

[Seth Morris]

I think it seems like she's been around a while.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Seth Morris]

But no, he's. He was. Was gaining. He gained like 18 ounces in a week or something like that.

[Randall]

That's exceptional. Great.

[Steven Rinella]

He's at that rate. How much will he weigh when he's 80?

[Seth Morris]

I don't think that's how it works.

[Steven Rinella]

You'd be big.

[Brody]

You've already had him fishing and hunting, haven't you, Seth?

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, we took him out in the. The turkey opener here in Montana. And my wife and I both killed turkeys. He wasn't. He was in the truck within earshot.

[Randall]

So, like, with someone there with him.

[Steven Rinella]

So he doesn't. He doesn't.

[Randall]

He wasn't listening to the radio with a pack of smokes, you know, like,

[Steven Rinella]

so he doesn't already have a hearing problem.

[Randall]

Sh.

[Steven Rinella]

The gun next to his little baby head.

[Seth Morris]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Seth Morris]

But no. Yeah, we. My wife and I took turns going out while One stayed in the.

[Steven Rinella]

In the ring.

[Brody]

It's okay when he's three, you can just get him, you know, like that story last year.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, a guy wrote in. We don't have it in the. We don't have it in the show today, but a guy wrote in based on that. The. The story we covered, the guy, the three year old who. The. The guy that supposedly had his 3 year old hunting turkeys. And this guy. Guy sending a picture of a three year old standing next to his shotgun.

[Randall]

12 gauge. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

The gun's way taller than the kid. He's like, this kid is not shooting that guy.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, my house cat jerky story. So I got. Man, I just gave the punchline away. Anyhow, so Guy Mellets, the editor, brings me this jerky that he likes a lot. It's made in Kansas or something. It's his favorite jerky. It's like these square sheets of jerky. It's very unique. I'm on the plane with my little boy going out to hunt turkeys at Doug's, and I give my little boy a piece of the jerky, and he pauses because it's square. Do you know what I mean? He pauses. Kind of like he's like not getting how you could have square jerky.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Steven Rinella]

And he's eating it, you know, And I said, he goes, well, our jerky's not like this. I said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. He then goes, this is cat. And keeps eating.

[Randall]

Oh, that's good.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, here's another one. Since you're back, Seth, this occurred to me when we used to want to do our show. Seth and I were trying to. Wanted to do a show called Deep Drop Boys, where we go around the world to the deepest places and put a deep drop rig down. But the thing is, most fishermen don't even recognize it as fishing. And they all agree that it's the most boring thing in the world.

[Randall]

Mm.

[Steven Rinella]

So our show never got off the ground. Like my wife, very small. My wife refuses to go deep dropping.

[Brody]

At the shack. You have to work a little to round up a deep drop crew.

[Randall]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

1.

[Brody]

I make sure I'm running a boat that day, and I. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Otherwise, no one wants to watch me because going deep dropping means watching me deep.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

It means watching you do nothing. You have to watch me catch nothing. But then I thought we could do the first episode, the Straight of Hormuz. So be like Deep Drop Boys. The Straight of Hormuz.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, it sounds risky. But let's.

[Steven Rinella]

I know, because then people would tune in and we'd get our show off the ground that.

[Seth Morris]

I mean, people would tune in for that one.

[Steven Rinella]

We're gonna deep drop the straight.

[Corinne]

Is it.

[Randall]

Is it deep enough?

[Seth Morris]

I wonder how deep it is.

[Steven Rinella]

How deep straight. Can you check how deep the straight of her moose is? Like, is it gonna be good or not?

[Randall]

The deepest parts are 650ft.

[Steven Rinella]

That counts.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, that'll work.

[Steven Rinella]

That's fine. Where. Can you send me a pin?

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, our Save Tucker Town update, Randall.

[Randall]

Yes, that's right. Save Tucker Town. If you haven't heard of it. We teamed up with Onx to help raise money for a cause in North Carolina. The Three Rivers Land Trust is spearheading this. And in short, there's a whole bunch of private land that was. Is owned by Alcoa and it was accessible for outdoor recreation, hunting, fishing, camping, all that stuff for years and years. And it's going up for sale. So it. It would likely transfer into hands of other private landowners who wouldn't be as open to public access. And so the Three Rivers Land Trust is leading a campaign to raise money to purchase some of that so that it becomes public land. And we are matching. We, meaning meat eater. We're matching every dollar given along with Onyx between April 14th and May 14th. So we're halfway. We're not quite halfway through that time period, but we're more than halfway to our goal. So we're matching Onyx and Mediator or matching up to $200,000. And right now there's been $103,580 raised. So that's at 52% of the $200,000 goal. And there's still again, I guess about two weeks before May 14th. So keep the. Keep the money coming. Yeah,

[Steven Rinella]

okay. Yeah, we're good. That's a good job.

[Randall]

Can I add.

[Steven Rinella]

Do you want to add more?

[Randall]

No, no. I just didn't know if you. I wanted to make sure it was good.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I didn't feel like it was impassioned, like an impassioned plea in the end.

[Randall]

We're halfway. We're halfway.

[Steven Rinella]

I'll be like, I want you to bring like some Jerry Lewis.

[Corinne]

Some telephone music running in the background.

[Randall]

Yeah, maybe next time.

[Steven Rinella]

Kick in now. We're on. We're on schedule.

[Randall]

Let's go. We're still on schedule.

[Steven Rinella]

Halfway through. Okay, we have. We have a. We have a live guest here today. Her name is Katie Lane, and she's going to talk to us about the Ranching business. Cattle ranching business. Tell us now. So you guys are you. Your family operates a ranch in eastern Montana, and you are primarily a cow calf operation.

[Katie Lane]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Tell people what that is.

[Katie Lane]

So cow calf operation is we raise the cattle, and we raise the mother cows and then breed them every summer, have calves in the spring, and then we raise them until the fall. They're about six months old. And then we sell them to a cattle buyer, and they buy them and put them in feedlots all around the country. And that's where they get fattened up and go into the grocery store.

[Steven Rinella]

And that. That's. That's your traditional business.

[Katie Lane]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

And you have been. You have embarked on an interesting enterprise.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Where you have. You are trying to build. Not trying. You have built it. You are growing a sort of. I don't want to call it a side business, but like, switching the. Switching your model around. This is what I think might be interesting to. To listeners. So you. You've been a traditional Great Plains arid grassland beef business.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And you're. You're trying to switch your model and tell people what the model. The model you're trying to switch to. And within this, like, all anybody hears about is, like, beef prices are crazy right now. So is it. Is it even a good time to switch the model?

[Katie Lane]

Well, it's tough because I started back shortly after Covid, and that was kind of. I've had people asking to buy our beef for years. I would take coolers home to Minneapolis, where I'm from, every summer, and I would take a couple coolers home with steaks and ground beef and give it to our family and friends. And they would just hum about it when they were eating it, and they're like, can we buy this from you? I said, we don't really have that type of an operation. We just process one steer a year for our family and our crew.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Katie Lane]

And they were like, well, if you're ever interested in selling it, we're interested in buying it. So I had those requests for several years. And I'm a nurse by trade, so I help on the ranch, but I would go to the clinic and see patients, and that was my job. So Covid hits, and there's this huge shift. More people want to know what's in their food. They're cooking from home. They're filling freezers. The grocery store shelves are empty, and there's just this huge shift of people want to know what's in their food. They want to. They want to take better care of themselves. And so I said to my husband Bill, I said, I think I can sell our beef. There are so many people asking for it, and a lot more people are interested in grass fed. And so I did a little trial run. I actually took two steers. And I called family and friends back in Minnesota and I said, hey, I'm going to bring out some beef. Are you guys interested? And I had it all sold before I went out there.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, is that right?

[Katie Lane]

Yeah. Okay, so I'm coming. We're coming home. And everybody's like, when are you coming back? It's like, I don't know. So I got home and I said, bill, I think we've got something here. And so I developed a logo and started building a website to tell our story. And it started out with just a couple cows, a couple beef every couple months. And I decided to just sell at farmers markets, direct to consumer. So locally, I went to some places in North Dakota, Miles City, Billings, regionally, and all of our beef is USDA inspected. That's where it's processed at a USDA inspected facility. So I can sell it.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it, got it.

[Katie Lane]

And Bill said, okay, every time you process a beef, you're gonna have hundreds and hundreds of pounds of burger. What are you gonna do with all that ground beef?

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Katie Lane]

And I said, well, so the people that own the butcher facility also own a smokehouse and they make snack sticks and jerky. So that's where I started taking some of the extra trim to make beef sticks made out of grass fed beef and then some of the extra whole muscle. So, like round steak stuff that's a little tougher as a steak, still makes really good jerky, even sirloin. So we started doing that, and that kind of took on a whole nother life of its own. It was shelf stable. Now I'm not having to transport frozen meat. And we got into. We're in over a hundred retail locations now. Town Pump carries our beef sticks.

[Seth Morris]

All right.

[Katie Lane]

Which is great.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Katie Lane]

And. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And so how do you picture a pathway? Is there a pathway to be that you would. That you would only do that, like, that you would even sell to cattle buyers anymore?

[Katie Lane]

Yes. That is the ultimate plan.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Katie Lane]

And when this took off, the biggest problem is having a facility that can take cattle on a regular basis to process it that's USDA inspected? Because I'm selling it in grocery stores.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, because you're not pre.

[Randall]

You're not.

[Steven Rinella]

Because a lot of times I'll see. Like a friend of mine, Doug, used to do this business he would have a very small amount.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He would pre sell them all.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So. So the consumer was basically buying it on the hoof.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then it wasn't an inspected facility, but you're selling it like piece by piece after the fact. So you have to have it inspected.

[Katie Lane]

Yep, yep. So I have a big walk in freezer out at the ranch that I have all the beef. After I pick it up from the processor, it's all divided out by cuts. And then even if somebody wants a quarter beef or a half beef, I sell it that way.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Katie Lane]

I just go basically pick the cuts that would make up that. So it's not always coming from the same animal, but we butcher in small quantities. So I'm not picking from 100, you know, steers at a time. I'm picking from six, eight.

[Steven Rinella]

So when you go out on your place, because you guys are running a regular cattle operation, when you go on your place and you're going out to get the stuff that you yourself are going to sell, how do you do you like pick the do. Do select.

[Katie Lane]

I have my own grass fed herd specifically for.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, so you're not. It's not even out of the same pool.

[Katie Lane]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

You have this whole separate operation.

[Katie Lane]

Correct.

[Steven Rinella]

And then how do you get them, how do you get them from the ranch to the slaughterhouse?

[Katie Lane]

I take them in a trailer.

[Steven Rinella]

You load them up to the trailer.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah. We literally go out into the pasture in the morning, load them up, load them up, whatever looks finished and I take them in.

[Steven Rinella]

And it's all grass fed.

[Katie Lane]

It's all grass fed. We just got AGA certified, which is American Grass Fed Association.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Katie Lane]

So that's going to be on our logo now, on our labels. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But now help me understand this part because like when, when be. If beef prices are so high. Do you see that? More like if you're a cow calf operation, you're just selling to cattle buyers. Who. Who is winning when beef prices are high? Do the. Are the ranchers winning more? Are the feedlots winning more? Are the restaurants winning more? Is it spread pretty evenly?

[Katie Lane]

Well, right now I think the ranchers are winning more, but we weren't feeling

[Steven Rinella]

you guys will feel that beef price increase.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah, oh yeah. Our calves are selling for more than they've ever sold.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it. And all the inputs are like right now fuel's probably very expensive. So there's certain inputs that go like inflation inputs that make it.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah. Even like the tractors and the equipment that we use on the ranch that's expensive now.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Katie Lane]

I mean, you're looking at half a million dollar pieces of equipment to go out and farm and to put like, we put up our own hay. So we've got a swather, a rake, a baler, all those things. And the fuel to run it out in the field. And sometimes we don't have a lot of hay. So. Yeah, we've always got a storage back. Storage.

[Steven Rinella]

So that partially like having. Trying to run like a family business to try to figure out a way, like what you're doing to, I don't know, branch out or diversify. There's probably a lot of incentive to do that.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Katie Lane]

I mean, it was probably a lot better when I first started because the market was a lot lower, so I was turning. You know, obviously the cattle are on our property for longer when we're selling them as calves are only six months old. So now I'm keeping them for another year and a half. But we've got the grass, we've got the land to keep them.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Katie Lane]

And so, you know, it started out as just a little side hustle, and it's really grown into something bigger. And Bill said, I would love to eventually shift our whole herd into what?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, sure, man. Just take control of it all.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And you. And you hop in your truck. I know this. You hop in your truck, you got a trailer, you got freezers, and you make deliveries all over the place.

[Katie Lane]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

You got restaurants. So. So tell people about that. That aspect of it.

[Katie Lane]

So we're in several grocery stores, town and country. I go all the way up to big sky. I don't cover the whole state, but I kind of have this i90, i94 corridor that I drive and have several deliveries along the way. We're in a couple restaurants and billings that have us on the menu, which is wonderful.

[Steven Rinella]

So they'll say. The menu will say where it's at.

[Katie Lane]

The menu actually says, yeah, Lane legacy beef.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, that's cool.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah. And then I ship most of the smoke products because I can. The frozen stuff I just deliver, I don't want to deal with. We live so remote that to overnight dry ice. I'm just not interested in doing that right now.

[Steven Rinella]

But you'll pull up to the restaurant and do the delivery?

[Katie Lane]

Yep. I go to the loading dock, show up with my cowboy boots. And sometimes I walk back into a kitchen and it's a bunch of guys and like, what are you doing here? Got your beef delivery. I'm the one doing it.

[Steven Rinella]

All right, so tell folks again, this is great. And again you know, I love ranch land and grassland and a lot better in condos. So it's good to see people that can, like, producers out on the landscape, be able to hold on to, like, large properties that serve as wildlife habitat.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And able to make those things work and not need to carve them up and, you know.

[Katie Lane]

Well, and it's fun. We just started doing virtual fencing here in the last six months.

[Randall]

Is that right?

[Katie Lane]

So our cows have collars.

[Steven Rinella]

You're kidding.

[Katie Lane]

No. And we can move them with the push of a button on our cell phone.

[Steven Rinella]

Really?

[Katie Lane]

Yeah. We've had neighbors come out. Cause there's just a few people that have started doing it in our area. And they will come out and we'll do a shift. And they're not getting shocked. They just get a vibration on their neck. And so you can literally pick up the virtual boundary and shift it over. And the cows start getting a. And they start walking. And then when one goes, then the other ones go, and then they all kind of want to go together.

[Randall]

Really?

[Katie Lane]

So we're moving cows without. Yeah. It's incredible.

[Corinne]

I'm kidding.

[Katie Lane]

So you can heavily graze a smaller area and then shift them and give that a break. If you have bigger pastures with maybe a couple of stock tanks, they all want to hang out around that one stock tank, and they're just overly grazing that area. So you can create these, like, corridors. You can divide a square pasture into, you know, four rectangles and let them. They can still get access to water, but they can only. They have to eat over here or.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. And you guys are in some dry country.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I mean, you got.

[Katie Lane]

So water is an issue sometimes.

[Steven Rinella]

There's, like, you could be selling cactuses.

[Katie Lane]

We do cactus jerky. The next thing.

[Steven Rinella]

So tell people again how to. How to. Like, if you're on the i90, i94 core, or you want to buy some. You want to buy some Lane Legacy beef from some cattle ranchers in Montana. Tell them how to find you.

[Katie Lane]

Lane legacybeef.com you can order online. We ship all over the country as far as the smoked products, so you can order online. And then if you can buy our stuff at the grocery store. And if you want to buy more than a couple packages of ground beef or a steak, you can order directly from me, and I can meet you along my delivery routes. And I. I come out this way every month, so.

[Steven Rinella]

All right.

[Katie Lane]

You're always getting fresh beef. You're not getting stuff that's, you know, six months or a year old.

[Steven Rinella]

Awesome. Thanks. Thanks for coming by.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Steven Rinella]

Thanks for educating our, you know, the ones that don't already know educating our audience about the beef business.

[Katie Lane]

Thank you.

[Steven Rinella]

We'll. We'll let you get out of here. Unless you want to stick around.

[Katie Lane]

Okay, Sounds good.

[Steven Rinella]

Totally up to you. All right. Again, Katie Lane. Lane. Legacy beef, like super cool business. And it's cool to see you guys making a go of it like that. Thank you. We're not doing corrections this week. Not formally at least. Not with the prize giveaway. We'll resume that next week. We're do. But we do have one small correction to make. Only because it's funny. Yep. And it's from our calendar and timely time.

[Brody]

It is our effed up old calendar series which Steve thought was a dead business, but we might be bringing it back. That's all.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. We're gonna like the calendar business is waning.

[Randall]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Like calendars are going out. It's on the way of the wagon wheel.

[Brody]

We've tried. We've tried.

[Steven Rinella]

And so every year I think that the calendar will do bad enough that we won't be asked to do another calendar. But they don't do that bad. No. And we got next year we're doing a calendar of wildlife diseases.

[Brody]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Every month will be a photo. Every month will be a disturbing photo of a wildlife disease.

[Randall]

This is your plan to kill? Yeah.

[Brody]

But you'll learn a lot.

[Steven Rinella]

Cuz the worst calendar you've ever been. This is like.

[Seth Morris]

This is like the Producers.

[Randall]

Yeah, the Producers.

[Steven Rinella]

It'll be the ugliest, most upsetting worst calendar you've ever seen. And then we'll never make another calendar after.

[Brody]

We're going to probably use a lot. We're going to get our own pictures for this one, unlike the last few calendars. But if you got a real good picture of a messed up animal.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. If you hit a real puff pocket or something, let us know. Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

Where do you go if this, if this does work? Where do you go after that?

[Steven Rinella]

I got ideas.

[Seth Morris]

Okay.

[Brody]

Rotten fish on beaches.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Like a calendar of.

[Corinne]

Yeah, like desiccated things.

[Steven Rinella]

The best rotten fish on a beach photo from all seven continents.

[Corinne]

Roadkill.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Randall]

We could do another ouse calendar, but just from the inside.

[Brody]

The inside inside.

[Randall]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Spencer]

Forgotten.

[Steven Rinella]

This typo is funny now.

[Brody]

Steve and I are the creative force behind these calendars. Say, you can't blame us for this. This typo. I'm not sure if you're aware, but May 5th is Cinco de Mayo.

[Steven Rinella]

Not on that calendar.

[Brody]

On this calendar Cinco de Mayo is on May 4th be with you anyway.

[Steven Rinella]

And for you people that don't speak Spanish, if one was to translate Cinco de Mayo, it Translates to the 5th of May.

[Brody]

It does.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Quattro de Mayo.

[Steven Rinella]

But here we have it on the 4th. I don't know who would have made that mistake.

[Randall]

And we just wanted to get it out there so that no one is confused and goes to their Cinco de Mayo gatherings on the 4th of May.

[Steven Rinella]

And then we get a. Then we get sued.

[Brody]

It's May the fourth be with you, not Cinco de Mayo. Cinco de Mayo's on the 5th, so there we go.

[Steven Rinella]

Thank you, Brody. Good job, man. Our kids are like, they love their little dog tracker. If they had to pick between me leaving the house for good or Tracker leaving the house for good, they're gonna pick me to go live out of the house. Okay. And recently, we've been trying out some fresh dog food. Man, it has changed that dog's life. She used to get kind of bummed out and depressed about her dry dog food. The dog is on fire now. But the problem with most fresh dog food is it's frozen, which means freezers, coolers, hassle, and whatnot. Well, just fresh from just food for dogs. It's fresh food made with human grade ingredients. But it's shelf stable. Right? You just grab a few packs and go on a camping trip or whatever. Tracker loves it. Go to justfood for dogs.com and get 50% off your first order. Our dog likes it so much, the kids laugh when she's eating it because of how excited she is. Spring turkey season is one of the best times to hand the hunt over to your kid. Part of the problem hunting turkeys with kids is a lot of the pre game stuff is all happening in the dark. They can't really visualize what you're talking about. But with Onx Hunt, you can show them what you're talking about on your phone and make the whole thing real. Let them learn why their moves work and why they don't. You can show them exactly where you're allowed to hunt. You can decipher direction and judge distance on a gobbler with waypoints in compass mode and build a setup together instead of just telling them what to do. It turns a morning in the woods into a lesson they'll carry the rest of their hunting life. Download the Onx Hunt app and use spring turkey season to make better hunters. One spring morning at a time. This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. I'LL put it to you real blunt. Man, I love this stuff. When I'm out doing whatever I'm doing, work out hunting, out fishing, this is how I keep hydrated. It tastes great. So I just. I'm gonna drink it because I like to drink it. But not only that. It just gets you restored and back up and running. It just. It's way better than just drinking straight water. Just one stick of liquid IV and 16 ounces of water hydrates faster than water alone. It's powered by liquid IV hydro science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. I just know when I drink it, I'm feeling better and feeling good. Get moving. With superior hydration from Liquid IV tear pour live more. Go to LiquidIV.com and get 20% off your first purchase with code me eater at checkout. That's 20% off your first purchase with Code me [e-mail]. so a guy wrote in. Nope, he didn't write in. We just found this out because it's publicly available information. We were talking about how so. So all the cool kids over the last, I don't know, six years, five years, all the cool kids hunt turkeys with something called tungsten super shot. Extremely expensive and getting now insanely expensive. Now, if you shoot a tungsten super shot load, it's about $11 to pull the trigger with tungsten. Tungsten is kind of going off the market. And part of the thing is they use it in munitions. So we're talking about how the government is buying up all the tungsten. Tungsten for. For homo tungsten, for just regular sportsmen is getting insanely expensive to the point where it's probably not even going to be around anymore. And we have heard rumors, murmurings that, that in the future, in the near future, in a year or two, you won't even be able to buy tungsten shot shells anymore. So. So check this out. So an Abrams tank, okay? A guy wrote it with a bunch of information about Abrams tanks they carry. Abrams tanks carry three kinds of shells. One is a depleted uranium rod called a kinetic penetrator. I was reading up on this. I never understood it. It really is like if you take uranium and use it to. To make fissile, like, nuclear material. These rods are. When they say depleted uranium, it's like it's. It's a uranium rod that has already had. Somehow the. The radioactivity has been harvested off it in a way that I'll Never understand. But it produces a rod when you sharpen it. It, it depleted uranium rod self sharpens on impact. I didn't know this. It doesn't mushroom wild. Yeah. So when you make it pointed on impact, it sharpens more. That's how it sheds material. It doesn't have a tendency to want a mushroom also.

[Brody]

So you want to poke a hole

[Steven Rinella]

in something like you want to poke a hole in another army tank. It shoots four to five times the speed of sound. And it just really is a sharp rod. But when it abrades on something at high speed, the flakes come off as white hot metal. That ignite gas and ammunition and stuff. They carry those. One of the things they carry is a can round. Okay. Now here's where all your tungsten. Here's if you're a taxpayer, here's where your tungsten ammo is going. I had no idea about this. A can round fired from an Abrams tank contains 1,104 aught buck tungsten pellets. Picture this quad ought. Quad aught buck. 1100 tungsten buckshot balls at 4.5 times the speed of sound.

[Randall]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

4 and a half times faster than your federal premium TSS load.

[Brody]

Well, you talk about killing turkeys at long range.

[Steven Rinella]

So if you shoot a turkey out of a shotgun, this, this, this four ought buck is going 4.5 times faster than out of your shotgun which is

[Randall]

like 4,500ft per second.

[Steven Rinella]

He says that every time they shoot this tank show and this is meant to be like for anti tank crews or mast personnel. Every time they touch off one of these tank rounds, he said there goes 155 shotgun loads worth of TSS.

[Seth Morris]

So I'm gonna do the math. How much is that?

[Steven Rinella]

A lot. Yeah,

[Seth Morris]

it's tungsten. Jig heads for fishing right now are just outrageous.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. Because of this guy they

[Seth Morris]

two quarter ounce jig heads on raffles website is nineteen and forty nine cents.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

For two.

[Brody]

All those tungsten beads that fly fishermen use, they're gonna go away too. I didn't even think about the fishing end of it.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, they're killing tungsten users. It's fine.

[Seth Morris]

The thing about it, there's, there's, there's lakes out there that are like. No lead lakes.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But can't fish them anymore.

[Brody]

Big lead's gonna make a comeback though.

[Steven Rinella]

I think so. If this guy also waited on something. Who in here says a saboted. I was gonna bring this up.

[Spencer]

I had no idea that this is wrong.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I knew that it's split. He's very firmly that it's a sabo. It is not a saboted. A sabbat. I say sabot French. I say French, but he argues sabo.

[Spencer]

I pulled up Merriam Webster and they accept both pronunciations.

[Steven Rinella]

Of course they do. Not this guy. Not this army. Not this army tank driver guy. I just outed him. He said not to say who he was. He's an army tank driver. Hopefully there's enough of them around that they won't be able to, I mean, stick it to him.

[Seth Morris]

I feel like that that'd be the only type of guy that would have this information.

[Randall]

Oh, it's all public.

[Steven Rinella]

He said it's public.

[Brody]

Say he's a driver. Just says he works with tanks.

[Steven Rinella]

It could be anything.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Spencer]

Wider net.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, now we got a correction special edition. This is going to take a ton of time. This is like a long. This is a long time correction. Okay, so we covered on a past. I'll get this whole thing. We covered on a past episode Colorado's fur sale ban that is in the rulemaking process in Colorado. So in that correction we talked about a woman named Samantha Miller. Okay, so Samantha Miller helped bring you the end of Washington's spring black bear season. Her org helped bring on a malfeasant game commission in Washington which is under investigation. We'll cover that soon. A derelict game commission in Colorado. They helped bring you a failed effort to ban mountain lion hunting in Colorado and now the proposed ban on the sale of products from all fur bearing animals in Colorado. Well, she herself has written in some corrections about our coverage of the anti hunting and trapping efforts of the center for Biological Diversity. So I'm going to deliver these corrections with commentary. Okay, but first some background. You handled this story, didn't you, Brody? Okay. In March, Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission voted 6 to 4 to advance to rulemaking a citizen's petition to prohibit the lawful sale, barter and trade of fur bearing animals. So it would become illegal in Colorado to sell, barter or trade hides from parts or hide parts. By which we mean unless you're talking about baculums. Oh, all this stuff about RFK Jr and the raccoon penis. Of all the news people that have touched this, how come not one of them has made the guess of what was going on there?

[Brody]

Because they don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

There's all these news stories. RFK Jr stopped and took a penis from a dead raccoon.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Not one of these news sources. It hasn't occurred to any of Them. He was getting the baculum? Yeah, he was getting the baculum to make like a drink stir. Oh, no one says this.

[Randall]

Oh, I thought that was in the news story.

[Steven Rinella]

Find me a news story that includes that he was after the baculum.

[Spencer]

Did it say he wanted for a drinkster?

[Steven Rinella]

No, but of course that's what he's doing.

[Corinne]

Or earrings, you know?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but he wanted the baculum.

[Spencer]

Or he's got a moonshine still.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Randall]

Yeah, back.

[Steven Rinella]

This is good. I need like 3 hours to go through it. I have to.

[Brody]

Let's get back to Samantha Miller.

[Seth Morris]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

So it would become illegal in Colorado to sell hides of raccoons, possums, skunks, muskrats, bobcats and a bunch of other furbearers. A deeper background here. Colorado's outgoing governor is a guy named Jared Polis. His husband is a self described animal welfare advocate. So when this guy does his little bio, that's what he puts that down. Okay. He puts down how he's a first gentleman and he puts down that he's a animal welfare advocate. He's chummy. He's chummy with animal rights radicals like the crew at center for Biological Diversity. So like Nancy Reagan. If you think like first gentleman, first lady thing like Nancy Reagan had just say no to drugs. Barbara Bush, universal literacy, Carter's wife, mental health. Did you know this?

[Brody]

Who was the one that was anti swearing in songs?

[Steven Rinella]

Al Gore's wife.

[Randall]

That's right.

[Steven Rinella]

But. But he wasn't present.

[Brody]

I know, it's the same thing.

[Steven Rinella]

It was close. It was close. This guy's got animal rights. That's his, that's his shtick. Him. This is my personal theory. I don't know this for the truth, but him having such close proximity to the governor. Meaning they're married. The governor then appointed. In Colorado, the governor appointed a bunch of animal rights advocate game commissioners who are sort of hostile to the traditional job of what game commissioners do. And so once they got the Game Commission stocked up with these people in June of last year, they submitted a petition to the Game Commission to amend Colorado's regulations to outlaw trade and fur bearing animals. Part of what makes this whole thing interesting is that Colorado Parks and Wildlife director Laura Clelland, who was appointed by the governor, she's new, objected. Objected to the petition on several grounds. So the agency director says, I don't want this petition. One, the petitioners, center for Biological Diversity. They couldn't demonstrate any decline in fur bearing animals. Okay. They couldn't demonstrate a relationship between Sales of fur and declining animal numbers. It didn't acknowledge the existing strict regulations on the take of furbearers. It cited misleading research that had nothing to do with Colorado and it conflicts with state statute and its exceptions are badly defined and we create unenforceable rules. This is coming from the governor's own appointed commissioner, but they go through it anyways.

[Brody]

So director, not commissioner.

[Steven Rinella]

Sorry, director. So back to the. To the corrections that came in from. From Samantha Miller. So she runs state level anti hunting and anti trapping campaigns. So she's with the center for Biological Diversity. Is called a campaigner is the job. And that means you campaign for like anti hunting and trapping campaigns.

[Brody]

She was predator campaigner, wasn't she?

[Steven Rinella]

Carnivore. Carnivore, yeah. Even though they deal with omnivores and herbivores. Here, her own bio. One of the things she says, she says in the past I advocated alongside Mountain lion foundation in my role as the executive director of Washington Wildlife First, a pre. A former gig during that time, she says we achieve significant victories for wildlife in Washington state, such as the prohibition of spring bear hunting. So right there, part of the aim of the job is to reform wildlife commissions, which means working with what I feel to be like gullible governors to bring anti hunting and anti trapping folks into commissions, which is what she worked on over in Washington where they had the placement of commissioners who then ended the spring bear hunt. What's really fascinating is this same group of commissioners are being investigated for malfeasance and destruction of government property in Washington. We have a show coming up where we'll dig into that investigation and that's saucy. Also, one of the commissioners that poll has put on hadn't gone did this vote. Voted for the fur sales ban in Colorado, but they hadn't yet been approved by the Senate. They didn't get the votes to get approved. So now they resigned because once like they were appointed, voted for the fur ban and then the date they were acting. Right.

[Brody]

And somehow that vote still stands.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but then the date came up for them to get voted on by the state senate and he doesn't have the vote. So he just resigns rather than. I feel like that's chicken. I feel like you should stick it out like yeah. And get voted. But he like hari kari, like death before dishonor. So he's not even on the commission anymore. They were. He wasn't going to get voted in. But he got to vote on this.

[Brody]

He did. He did what he was there to do. Which Is cast that vote.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So Miller campaigns on behalf of anti hunting initiatives. Okay. So she worked on the recently failed effort to ban bobcat, mountain lion and even lynx hunting. And link stunning doesn't exist in the lower 48 because they are an Endangered Species act protected animal. But who let that little detail get in the way of something that sounds important? So I think that when we get into these corrections, it's important to keep that in mind because you've already laid out. You've laid out. When you say, like, I want to ban bobcat mountain lion hunting, you've already laid out, like, what your end goal is, Jim saying, like, if you took a guy, like if Mike Lee came up with a thing where he said, oh, I just want to sell some public lands, you'd be like, yeah, but I kind of know you don't like any of them. Right. Like, I already know what you think. So that's already been like, the end goal has already been like, quite clear. Okay, but correction one, she says our petition. This is a correction from Miller. Our petition is not the same as the Denver fur ban, and that distinction matters. The Denver measure concerned retail sale of fur products regardless of source. Our petition is far narrower. It addresses the commercial sale of pelts and parts from Colorado wild fur bearers killed in Colorado. Now, I'd have to go re. Listen to the whole thing. I don't think in any way you said or I said, this is the same as the Denver furbearer.

[Brody]

I certainly said something like this was attempted a couple of years ago.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, so you're guilty. Correction taken.

[Brody]

Sure.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Brody]

We didn't get into the details of.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but I'm glad she brought it up. I'm glad the correction brought it up because I want to point out the Denver fur ban was defeated by voters in Denver. In Denver, not Colorado in general. It was defeated by voters in Denver. So this new effort, this new Colorado wide first sale ban is like taking your trojan horse anti hunting commissioners and getting them to do what voters didn't even want to do. Okay, well, a funny addition here. I'm going to get to this pushback. One of the things that helped tank the Denver fur sale ban was the fly fishing community. I was reading about this other day. The fly fishing community was pissed about it because they're like, what about our flies? Right. Keep that in mind because that ties into what I'm going to get in in a minute. So fly fishermen, of which Colorado has a great many, were like, hold on a minute. You wouldn't Be able to buy rabbit strips, flies, beaver.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And so they learned their lesson there as I'll get to in a minute. Okay, here's her second. Here's another correction. She gave a bunch, but I'm doing a bunch of them. She gave. If she gave eight, I'm doing four or something like that.

[Spencer]

What was her tone? Was she angry? She like, I want you to understand this better.

[Steven Rinella]

Understand it better.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

That, that we were wrong about some things. She says the petition would not eliminate the economic viability of nuisance wildlife control or similar work. Colorado law already allows continued sale of pelts and parts in certain nuisance and agricultural contexts. That sale would continue to be allowed and is protected by law. Okay, got it. Correction taken.

[Brody]

We had a. We had a guy write in that same.

[Steven Rinella]

But this is where this creates huge problems. Okay. As pointed out by the wildlife director, a person working on agricultural depredation stuff doesn't even need a license. Okay. So here's what the state director. Here's where their thing is. How can the state possibly distinguish if a farmer kills raccoons from getting into a grain bin or if a kid down the road from that farmer kills a raccoon not getting into a grain bin? How would the state ever distinguish between these two raccoons when they come up for sale? There's no tagging system. So part of the state saying this is so dumb is they're like, we already have a way that things can hit the market. You're trying to make another way that things can hit the market, and then we're supposed to be able to tell. So that's part of the unenforceable quality to it. Okay, here's another correction. And I'm going to bring all this together in a minute. But here's another correction. She says the petition applies to a narrow category of Colorado wild furbearers under title 33. It does not apply to all wild animals. Okay, got it. Understood.

[Brody]

Fur bears only.

[Steven Rinella]

Furbears only. It applies to fur bearing animals that can be legally hunted or trapped. Okay, so raccoons, opossums, skunks, muskrats, beavers, long tailed weasels, bobcats, coyotes, gray fox, red fox, martin, mink, muskrat. Hold all that in mind. I'm going to come back around to this too. She says it is not accurate to suggest commercial markets pose no population level concern when population status and harvest data for several furbearer species remain uncertain. I get the point you're making, but your state agency disagrees. Okay, but she routinely Attacks state agency workers in an effort to delegitimize them. For instance. Her words. This is her. She describes the state commission as having extremist views. Her words. I thought state agencies took care of wildlife that they were managing for wild animals, but really they managed for humans. Interest in wild animals and the value that they can put on each species, which is usually by selling tags for hunting or fishing licenses. Going on. Her words. Agencies like Colorado Parks and Wildlife are enterprise agencies. They are there to make money and they make money by selling tags. Let's get to the population thing. Of all those furbears in Colorado, each of them has a listing from the International Union for the Conservation of Nature called iucn. Anyone at home. If you go to look up any animal you can think of on Wikipedia, go on Wikipedia and look up name an animal Stripe skunk type in striped skunk. In Wikipedia you'll see the entry hovering off to the right. You'll see icon and a IUCN status for that species.

[Brody]

Like they have colors.

[Steven Rinella]

Maybe colors, color, icon.

[Spencer]

Vulnerable, near threatened.

[Steven Rinella]

It's a very nuanced system.

[Brody]

Species of least concern.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm going to get to how nuanced it is. It is a very nuanced system. The IUCN system goes like this. Extinct, extinct in the wild, critically endangered, endangered, vulnerable, near threatened and least concern. Every one of these furbearers in Colorado has an IUCN ranking of least concern.

[Brody]

Can I point out something else about all those species? You haven't been able to trap them in Colorado for 30 years. Yeah, you can still hunt them, but people aren't trapping for fur in Colorado anymore. Like it just does. It's not a little bit.

[Steven Rinella]

A little bit because you can cage, trap, private land.

[Brody]

You can private land, foothold conar. Like it's just not a thing.

[Steven Rinella]

They've already, they've already crippled it.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Which maybe someday we'll undo. Man, our, our kids are like, they love their little dog tracker. If they had to pick between me leaving the house for good or tracker leaving the house for good, they're going to pick me to go live out of the house. Okay. And recently we've been trying out some fresh dog food. Man, it has changed that dog's life. She used to get kind of bummed out and depressed about her dry dog food. The dog is on fire now. But the problem with most fresh dog food is it's frozen. Which means freezers, coolers, hassle and whatnot. Well, just fresh from just food for dogs. It's fresh food made with human grade ingredients. But it's shelf stable, right? You just grab a few packs and go on a camping trip or whatever. Tracker loves it. Go to just food for dogs.com and get 50% off your first order. Our dog likes it so much the kids laugh when she's eating it because of how excited she is. Spring turkey season is one of the best times to hand the hunt over to your kid. Part of the problem hunting turkeys with kids is a lot of the pre game stuff is all happening in the dark. They can't really visualize what you're talking about. But with Onx Hunt, you can show them what you're talking about on your phone and make the whole thing real. Let them learn why their moves work and why they don't. You can show them exactly where you're allowed to hunt. You can decipher direction and judge distance on a gobbler with waypoints in compass mode and build a setup together instead of just telling them what to do. It turns a morning in the woods into a lesson they'll carry the rest of their hunting life. Download the ONX Hunt app and use spring turkey season to make better hunters one spring morning at a time. O'Reilly Auto Parts can help take the guesswork out of check engine, ABS or maintenance lights in your vehicle with oreilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians. OReilly VeriScan can identify the most likely problem with just one scan. If you need help, O'Reilly Auto Parts can recommend a shop for you. Don't ignore a check engine, ABS or maintenance light. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today, a free service exclusively at O'Reilly Auto Parts. So all of these things the IUCN offers 123456 the IUCN offers seven levels. Each of these furbearers that we're talking about here are all least concerned. But here's where this gets interesting. Colorado has if if you're interested if you're the center for Biological Diversity and you're interested in biological diversity, why are you not focused on the 17 species in Colorado that are that are listed as threat, federally threatened or endangered? Why are you not spending your time on Black Footed Ferrets, New Mexico Meadow Jumping mice, Humpback chubs, Razorback suckers, Southwestern Willow Flycatchers, pawnee montane skippers, 17 plant species? Why not do that? If you were interested in biological diversity, this is going to be un distasteful to you. You would you would be volunteering for Ducks Unlimited or RMEF and doing habitat work.

[Brody]

Trout Unlimited.

[Steven Rinella]

You would be doing habitat work if you were interested in biodiversity. Ducks Unlimited Wetlands, Rocky Mountain Elk foundation grassland ecosystems, Trout Unlimited river ecosystems. That's what you would do if you were interested in biodiversity. You wouldn't be messing around like with, with striped skunk protections. It's because you're not like they're not looking at what matters for biodiversity. They're looking at where they can successfully shut down hunting activities. Here's another one. Correction. Another correction. Fly tying materials were explicitly accounted for in drafting. This is from Miller. She says the petition was designed narrowly to avoid disrupting ordinary fly tying in retail supply chains. It is aimed at the commercial sale of pelts and parts from Colorado wild furbearers, not at ending fly time. Understood? Correction. Understood. And I'll I want to take this a step further. Here's the agency director on the fly fishing thing. This is the agency director's words. There are two significant problems with the first exemption in the proposed amendment for, quote, finished hand tied fishing flies. That's what the petition says. That's okay. The petition says it is okay to have, quote, finished hand tied fishing flies. Okay. The director this proposed exemption is too narrow as it would exempt finished hand tied flies but prohibit the sale of the raw materials typically used to tie flies. The resulting ban on fly tying products could result in significant impacts to the Colorado fishing community, community, both fly shops and individual consumers. 2. This proposed exemption is unworkable under the current regulatory framework. The current framework does not define fishing flies generally. Rather, it only defines artificial flies and lures. In order for the ban to be enforceable, its exemptions must be clearly applied and the commission would need to develop a separate definition for a finished, hand tied fishing fly. However, there can be misunderstandings or disagreements as to whether something qualifies as a fly versus a lure. Furthermore, because the exemption language does not include handmade lures, any such lures using fur products would fall outside this exemption and be banned for sale. So flies are okay. Bucktail jigs are illegal.

[Brody]

Yep. And as someone who ran a fly shop for a long time, there was a lot of stuff on that fly tying wall we would have to yank off the wall.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, you know, it's so funny, but you're like, well, why would they care about fly fishermen? Because fly fishermen boned them on their Denver fur band. So now they're so short sighted, they're like, yeah, walleye guy with a bucktail jig. Screw that guy. A fly fisherman. Cool if it's hand tied. So there's this quote I like. It's. You can get bump. There's bumper stickers to say this. People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich old ladies than motorcycle gangs. I've changed that quote. I've adapted that quote. People are more violently opposed to fur than flies because it's safer to harass rich old ladies than rich old men. Get it? You get it? Okay, here's another exemption.

[Brody]

Oh, there's more.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, this. I'm just getting warmed up. This exemption is insane.

[Brody]

Was this all done through email or did you talk to her?

[Steven Rinella]

Me reading and me reading and getting emails. Okay, now here's another. This is. This demonstrates the insanity. This. This stupid petition. Okay, the petition, okay, this is the petition's words. Okay? They have an exemption and it pertains to felted fur western hats. If. Okay, if. If the hat is quote. I'm quoting. If the hat is quote crafted using heritage techniques like wet felting that promote sustainability and cultural craftsmanship, unquote from the director. The petition does not define the necessary elements of the exemption. For this exemption to be meaningful, the commission or the division would need to define a felted fur Western hat as well as to define accepted quote, heritage techniques as well as determining whether such techniques, quote, promote sustainability and cultural craftsmanship. The Commission and the Division cannot guess what petitioners mean by these terms, nor do they have the historic or artistic expertise to meaningfully determine what qualifies as a quote, heritage technique that promotes, quote, cultural craftsmanship. It's so dumb. If you had a hat, if you were selling a hat that was just a beaver fur and you could have made it with a bone awl. Okay, you could be a Native American woman making a beaver fur hat with a bone awl and it would not be regarded as a heritage technique or cultural craftsmanship. It has to be in the form of a cowboy hat. It's so dumb. You have to take all the hair off and make it a cowboy hat. And then in their mind it becomes. Okay, I redid my quote again. Remember the quote? Where's the original quote? People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich old ladies than motorcycle gangs. People are more violently opposed to fur than cowboy hats because it's safer to harass rich old ladies than 30 year old women from New Jersey buying a big goofy hat for a summertime outdoor wedding in Vail. I like it. I made that quote up.

[Brody]

Could say Boseman too.

[Steven Rinella]

Miller. Well, I was trying to keep Colorado.

[Brody]

Yeah, true.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's another correction from Miller.

[Brody]

Wow.

[Steven Rinella]

Rabbits are small game, not fur. Not fur.

[Brody]

Yes. I did save rabbit.

[Steven Rinella]

They would not be considered under this petition. Got it. Brody's wrong. Yeah. Another correction. This petition does not ban personal use. Hunters and trappers could still keep and use animals they lawfully take for personal purposes. I know. We framed the whole conversation as being about a fur sale ban. We never talked about a use ban. Now, I was discussing the logic of this all by demonstrating what is considered to be okay in the center for Biological Diversity's eyes. And what's not okay? Right. Like, like things like flies.

[Randall]

Cool.

[Steven Rinella]

Spinners. Not cool. Felt made from a beaver hat. Cool. Or like a hat made from felt made from beaver. Cool. A hat made from fur from a beaver, not cool. Okay. And again, it's tainted by other efforts like the Bobcat Mountain Lion Band. They just tried to do this. Doesn't occur in a vacuum. Now here, here's some other quotes to get an idea how Miller thinks. Okay? She, she, she. People like to make this point. We talking about this fur thing. They like, they love to make this point that like, it goes against the north, our own North. They like to take the North American model of wildlife conservation, throw it back in hunter's faces. Okay? So she's like, the commercialization of furbears. She says it is to make commercialization of furbears. This is to make commercialization of furbearers align with other big game species. To me, this is a simple question. This is Miller talking. Why are we allowing the sale of wildlife in one species, in one category of species rather than others? She also says this today. I really do urge you to support this petition. It's a common sense change. It's a low bar for our wildlife. It should not be for sale. Okay? When, when, when Miller walks into a Whole Foods and her mind must be absolutely blown when she sees wild caught Alaska salmon and Whole Foods, her mind must be blown when she sees Gulf shrimp for sale in Whole Foods. How could that be? How could we be selling wildlife? Because different wildlife has different conservation histories. Game animals became a no sale item. Fur bearing animals never went through a collapse that necessitated it. Same thing like why can you sell wild caught salmon if our wildlife shouldn't be for sale? Why is it okay to buy wild caught salmon? Because salmon, which is wildlife, is under an entirely different management structure with a different conservation story. It's just different. Furbearers are different. When, when, when Roosevelt was considering ways to stop the market slaughter, they weren't concerned about raccoons and possums because those things weren't critically. They weren't, like, at a critical conservation point. There was never a recovery effort. So it's just. They have a. Just like how you can buy salmon. You can buy raccoon first. Okay. She also says that. She says, I don't believe carnivore. I don't believe carnivores need. This is the thing you'll find again and again in this language. And careful with the language. She says, I don't believe carnivores need to be killed, period. Like, that's just where I'm at. That's a quote. Okay. And apparently not omnivores either, because she's worked to end bear hunts. Okay. But it's an interesting wildlife distinction. And in wildlife management, not often do we manage wildlife by diet. Okay. Like, a northern pike is a carnivore.

[Brody]

Well, I mean, a raccoon's an omnibus.

[Steven Rinella]

A raccoon is an omnibus.

[Brody]

A fox is. They pro.

[Steven Rinella]

It's an interesting way to, like, manage wildlife. You'd be like, I'm going to do it by diet. Okay? Herbivores, cool. Well, beavers are herbivorous, but that's not cool. So, like, stop talking to me about what they eat as a management tool.

[Brody]

And a management tool is not. I just feel like carnivores should not be killed. That's not a management strategy.

[Steven Rinella]

She says this. I think that people that hunt predators for fun. Okay, Remember that word need? I'm going to come back to the word need and come back to the word fun. She says, I think that people that hunt predators for fun have a very specific personality type that I would not want to be around by myself. Oh, she's scared. Also, this. Let's just remove. This is a quote. Let's just remove the four funsies part. The killing for funsies. Let's maybe take that away while we figure out how to get these animals back where we want them. She says this. This is commercial killing, with lion hunting guides charging an $8,000 fee to guarantee a trophy and trappers selling bobcat pelts to China. Okay. Often describes hunters as remorseless, which is a weird one. She says this is animal cruelty that's allowed to continue to our wildlife. And I think every Colorado knows that this isn't really hunting. Okay? There's real hunting and that this isn't it.

[Brody]

She should tell me what real hunting is.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, well, this is.

[Brody]

This.

[Steven Rinella]

This is a, quote, trophy exercise for heads and coats and nothing more. Than that. Here's another word that comes up again. Quote, needless killing of mountain lions and bobcats for their heads and beauty and beautiful fur coats. Okay. She says this about bear hunters in Washington. A fraction of a percentage of Washingtonians, including Fish and Wildlife director Kelly Susselwind, have fun killing bears in spring. She says this. The commission continued to approve spring bear hunting long after the department could show any management need. So if you look at what they say, what they're saying is, if there's no need, why have it. If there's no management need, don't hunt it. Okay, well, I have news for you. There is no need to fish walleye. There is no management need to fish walleye. There is no management need to fish rainbow trout. There is no management need to hunt pheasants. There's no management need to hunt turkeys. Turkeys do not have a demonstrable, like, effect in a negative way. So when you introduce that, you're like, do you need. Is there a management need for a hunt? You're left with, like, hogs in Texas,

[Brody]

sure, maybe whitetails, where they're over white

[Steven Rinella]

tails and egg that. But that's the. That's her way of looking at it. Is there a management need?

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So, okay, so you can't do it if it's fun. She wants to end the stuff for fun. Okay. You shouldn't enjoy hunting. That's out. Not if you want to sell something, that's out. If you like taxidermy, that's out. If there's not a need, that's out. I'm lost on what's left. If it's enjoyable, don't. If you're gonna have it stuffed in your house, don't. Right.

[Brody]

Well, it's just crazy that she spends all this time setting up these, like, arguments that are made to sound, like, reasonable and sophisticated, and then she ends with this stuff.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's the. Here's the. Yeah, here's some of the final best stuff. Apparently, there was someone secretly recorded a meeting of the biological diversity people and their followers. Someone tapped in and recorded the meeting. Okay? And this demonstrates some insanity that goes on with the commission. Okay? So they. They had these commission meetings about this first sale ban, and they have their own commissioners. They've placed within it. The animal rights community has their own commissioners sitting there in this recorded meeting. They're. They're telling their supporters about the cohesion they've created with the commissioners. She says this. She's addressing a guy named Mark. Okay? And she says this. Mark, everyone it's fine. Let them do that. The commissioners know that that is coming. I have run through every single scenario of things that might hit them, including children coming up there and crying and saying this is their favorite thing to do with their dad or all of those pieces, everything that will be thrown at them. They know that all of that is coming and they are aware. They are aware to be prepared for anything. We will be your consistent and reliable support. So she's explicitly confirming that she has pre briefed Colorado park and Wildlife commissioners on the content of public testimony they will hear. Okay. She's like, they're going to tell you this. They're going to tell you that. She also says she's telling a, she's telling a person in this little secret community. She's telling, she's coaching them on what to say in the commission meeting. She says, I think you can say support this petition. And these people are obviously commercial commercializing wildlife. And that's the end of your comments. I think that if that's going to be your reason, Michelle, just show up and say I support the petition and know that I have one of the commissioners prepared to address that, that is very interested in that point you brought up and is planning to talk about it. Okay, so here they are right in the script planting a comment and planting a commissioner who's ready to address the comment. She says this. We have been directed from the governor's office. Don't let us be shown up in Denver. This is the next meeting. It will be in Grand Junction. It's like quote inside a quote. This is the governor talking. It's like you guys are in Denver. Don't let them show you up in Denver. So here directly conveying that they're taking their chart, they're taking their, they're marching on behalf of the governor's office. The governor's. It's, it's planned anyways. What's next?

[Brody]

What's next is May 6th and 7th in Grand Junction when the vote takes place like you're in Colorado.

[Steven Rinella]

That's so stupid.

[Brody]

Go raise some hell in Grand Junction when they have this next vote.

[Randall]

The days after Cinco de Mayo.

[Brody]

That's right.

[Randall]

And May uno and dose days after Cinco de Mayo.

[Brody]

That was a real fantastic expose there, Steve.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm impressed. Yeah, it's like 60 Minutes expose. It's like listening to 60 Minutes or something.

[Spencer]

But one of them.

[Steven Rinella]

How long was that?

[Randall]

That was a long 60 minutes.

[Spencer]

One of the most agreeable.

[Randall]

Close to 60 minutes.

[Steven Rinella]

Ye, pretty close.

[Spencer]

One of the most Egregious things she said. I'm just paraphrasing. Maybe you can find the exact quote, Steve. But it was something about like Colorado Parks and Wildlife's goal is to make money, and they make money by selling tags and fishing license and stuff. Those agencies are not money making operations.

[Steven Rinella]

No.

[Spencer]

Like they're money losing operations.

[Steven Rinella]

In fact, it's like, because it's. Because it's this constant thing of like, there's this constant thing of like you delegitimize the. It's this. You delegitimize the agency. In people's eyes, it's that the agency is bad. They want to kill everything off. They're just there to make money. You like delegitimize the agency and delegitimize the agency.

[Spencer]

But the way she framed it is, though, they're like, you know, carrying around money bags from license sales.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Brody]

Where's it all gonna travel?

[Spencer]

Sales. And usually it's the other way around that like, they need to take money from other parts of the state to fund this sort of thing. In Montana, like, we have what is the 20% marijuana tax that supports our public lands. So there's an example of where like we're going to take money out of this bucket because, you know, our parks and wildlife and division needs that kind of funding.

[Steven Rinella]

That's how you know these people aren't true to mission. Because if they're true to mission, they'd be working on an alternate funding mechanism. I looked like what Minnesota has, like what Missouri has.

[Spencer]

Their mission is to perpetuate the wildlife resources of the state, to provide a quality state park system and to provide enjoyable and sustainable outdoor recreational.

[Seth Morris]

That's.

[Brody]

That's FWP's mission.

[Spencer]

No, Colorado's.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Brody]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[Randall]

Colorado DNR.

[Steven Rinella]

Say the thing again.

[Spencer]

To perpetuate the wildlife resources of the state, to provide a quality state parks system and to provide enjoyable and sustainable outdoor recreation opportunities. They're not a money making organization.

[Steven Rinella]

They're the mate jingle. That's why you always see those, those game wardens walk around with gold teeth

[Randall]

and stuff and well, they get their, their tag sale bonuses every fall.

[Spencer]

Yeah.

[Brody]

When they roll up to you, they get their keys out, big wad of cash falls on the ground.

[Steven Rinella]

All right, I'm done with that.

[Brody]

You're done? I guess that. Am I next?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Brody]

Is that where we're at? I'm serious, though. And if you're in Colorado, go to Grand Junction on May 6 and 7 and make some noise.

[Steven Rinella]

I think the whole Thing's got to go away. It's so funny.

[Brody]

Yeah, let's hope so. Let's hope so. Let me find where I'm at. What am I talking.

[Steven Rinella]

And we are going to do a follow up about this commission because the Washington one, the Washington Commission where she worked too on. Yeah, they got commissioners under investigation for destroying government property.

[Brody]

We got to find out the other state. She's been talking to commissioners and there's got to be more. Okay, I'm going to talk about some federal conservation funding. Steve sent an email the other day to me and Corinne which is like, hey, here's some good news. Which is, which is great. But there's also some bad news. The good News is on April 24, you might have been in D.C. for the TRCP thing when you sent this to U.S. department of Agriculture's Natural Resources Conservation Service. I'm going to talk more about that.

[Steven Rinella]

Better known as the NRCS announced the

[Brody]

availability, availability of $52 million to increase hunting and fishing access through the voluntary public Access Habitat Incentive Program. So that's great money going, going towards like public access to private property. A lot of, hopefully a lot of farmers and ranchers will enroll in that program and get more people, you know, access to good hunting grounds. Let me see here.

[Randall]

The hip kids call it VPA hip.

[Brody]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

They just like to say hip.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Brody]

This represents the largest single investment and BPA hip since its creation in 2008 and the first opportunity for new funding since 2019.

[Steven Rinella]

Really?

[Brody]

Yep. So 70% low. 48 states are in private ownership. Sportsmen and women are reliant on private lands for hunting and outdoor recreation opportunities. And this helps address that by opening up, hopefully opening up a significant number of acres to, to hunting and fishing. So that's the good news. Unfortunately, that same day I got some bad news. In 2027, the following cuts will conser conservation cuts will be made to various agencies in the federal government.

[Steven Rinella]

300 million from the U.S. yeah, these are, these are. There's a lot of haglin left to have. These are proposed cuts.

[Brody]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. This is like an initial offer, right?

[Corinne]

You know, 52 mil.

[Brody]

Either way. It's not great news.

[Steven Rinella]

No, it's not. No, it's not going to end better. But I'm saying there's a lot of fighting. There's a lot of fighting left to be done here.

[Brody]

300 million from the US GS ecosystem management program. That's the entire budget. All of the BLM's wilderness budget will go to management budget. It'll be reallocated to land use projects like energy production. Primarily energy production. 105 million dollars will be cut from the National Wildlife Refuge System. 40 million from the North American Wetlands Conservation act, which is 80% of their budget. 11 million from Migratory Bird Management Program. The entire U.S. fish and Wildlife Services science application budget of 30 million dollars will be cut. All U.S. fish and Wildlife Service funding for state and tribal grants will be cut. BLM staff will be cut by an additional 27%. That's over 2,000 full time positions. The USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service, which we just talked about, eliminating that and eliminating the Forest Service, entire Forest and Rangeland Research Division.

[Steven Rinella]

Lot of fighting.

[Brody]

I'm just saying, keep your eyes open.

[Steven Rinella]

That's like someone going like, I'll give you a dollar for your car. You know, no one that it ain't. But yeah, I mean it's, it's bad.

[Brody]

And that's only part of the list. If you want to check out the list in detail of these proposed guts, go to the Wildlife Society's webpage, which is.

[Steven Rinella]

It'll. It'll be bad. It'll. It'll, it'll, It'll be bad. I don't know. It'll be bad. Yeah, it'll be bad. But there's a, there's a lot.

[Brody]

If it's for 27, you know, let's hopefully get through the next round of elections and then we'll see what happens. For 27. I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, we might return to just like pure gridlock where nothing happens.

[Brody]

Right. Which is good.

[Randall]

Yeah, good.

[Steven Rinella]

Just things. Quiet now.

[Spencer]

The, the DOI was already like such a tiny piece of the pie that you know, they're going to cut it so much where there's like no pie left for them anymore. Anymore.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, the interior will be.

[Spencer]

Yeah.

[Brody]

When you see these budgets getting cut from whatever it was to nothing, like basically eliminating a department, just zeroing out. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. You'll often bring in people to eliminate their own program.

[Brody]

You know, I mean the fact that we just were bragging about how the Conservation Service is going to create. It's 50 million bucks for more access. But then they want to get rid of the Conservation Service.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like, okay, it's going to be, it's going to be a messy process.

[Randall]

Interior is less than 1%. It's almost half a percentage of the 26 budget.

[Spencer]

And they were taking some of those things and eliminating them by a hundred percent.

[Brody]

Yeah, that's all I got.

[Steven Rinella]

We have a little family dog that our kids got from the dog pound named Tracker. I always like to tease them about that dog, but it is, it's their, it's their best little buddy. And she was getting kind of depressed about dry dog food. Like this dog was legitimately like bummed out when you fed it. So we got it some fresh dog food. Man, that dog, it has brought a whole new level of enjoyment to that dog's life. One of the problems with fresh dog food is a lot of it comes frozen. Okay? So when you buy it, then all of a sudden your freezer is now full of all this frozen dog food. And it's a hassle because when you go to travel or take it out camping, you got to keep it in coolers. All kinds of logistics. Well, check this out. Just fresh from from Just food for dogs is a real fresh dog food made with human grade ingredients like actual meat and vegetables. But it's shelf stable. It doesn't take up freezer or cooler space. There's no prep. You can toss a few packs in the truck and then we know that little Tracker, she's going to have a healthy meal wherever we end up. It's a game changer. She loves this stuff. We laugh when we watch how much she likes this dog food. It's also the number one vet recommended fresh dog food made without preservatives or fillers. Get some and try it out. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order. Spring turkey season is one of the best times to hand the hunt over to your kid. Part of the problem hunting turkeys with kids is a lot of the pre game stuff is all happening in the dark. They can't really visualize what you're talking about. But with Onx Hunt, you can show them what you're talking about on your phone and make the whole thing real. Let them learn why their moves work and why they don't. You can show them exactly where you're allowed to hunt. You can decipher direction and judge distance on a gobbler with waypoints and compass mode and build a setup together instead of just telling them what to do. It turns a morning in the woods into a lesson. They'll carry the rest of their hunting life. Download the Onx Hunt app and use spring turkey season to make better hunters. One spring morning at a time. O'Reilly Auto Parts can help take the guesswork out of check engine ABS or maintenance lights in your vehicle with O'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians. O'Reilly Veriscan can identify the most likely problem with just one scan. If you need help, O'Reilly Auto Parts can recommend a shop for you. Don't ignore a check engine, ABS or maintenance light. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan Today, a free service exclusively at O'Reilly Auto Parts. So the chimpanzees are in a war.

[Randall]

Little change of pace here. Little change of pace here. And I apologize to people that have been waiting for the segment because we were, we were going to run it last week, you know, and then other bad stuff happened. Hmm.

[Steven Rinella]

So the kind of thing that just gets bumped. Yeah. Right.

[Randall]

Now, please don't put a lot of work into this. There's a paper published earlier this month in the journal Science that got a lot of popular attention in New York Times. NPR, BBC picked this up. It's based on 30 years of observation and it documents an eight year, what they described as a civil war among the largest community of chimpanzees in the world. It's about 200 individuals.

[Steven Rinella]

And that's a big town.

[Randall]

Yeah. And so they, I mean, this is a group of chimpanzees that that's, they sort of, there were two sort of factions within the larger community and they, they groomed one another and mated with one another and socialized with one another. And then over the course of eight years, they split apart. They began to occupy different territories and they started raiding one another and killing first adults, but then infants from the other, from the other groups. So this is the first time, according to the paper's abstract, group conflict among non human animals is well known. However, lethal conflict among groups of animals that were once socially affiliated has not previously been observed outside of humans, in whom cultural ideology can drive divisions among individuals within the same group. These findings indicate that group identities can shift and escalate into lethal hostility in one of our closest living relatives in the absence of cultural markers often thought necessary for warfare.

[Brody]

Randall Kineiner, is this like a bad blood thing or is it like a competition for resources?

[Randall]

Well, Phil, would you, we have, we do have a, we do have a resource here from the front lines.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, sure. Did someone report it? A war reporter.

[First Sergeant Knuckles]

My dearest Bubbles, I write to you from beneath a forest canopy that no longer feels like home. The rainy season has come and gone eight times now since I last held your hand. And still this ruinous conflict shows no signs of relenting. What once seemed a temporary rift among brothers now portends as the primatologists Say, in a permanent vision of our community, the Western forces of Ngogo press on with a ferocity that defies comprehension. 28 of our number have now fallen. 28 souls. The reports from the front are not fit for juvenile eyes. Chimp genitals torn from their chimp genital places. How awful that the opposable thumbs we have been blessed with by our creator are now used for such unspeakable acts. The men now whisper of infants struck down in their innocence. The white tufts of hair on their rumps will never darken as they typically do among our kind in their fifth year of life. At night, when the moon hangs low over the forests of Kibale, I close my eyes and I am home. I hear the screeches of our brood, and I feel your sagittal crest under my elongated fingers. Our family swinging peacefully amongst the trees in a behavior known as brachiation. In those moments, I imagine that none of this is real. I am merely living in a nightmare of war. And I shall awake with you lying in the dirt beside me. First Sergeant Knuckles, 3rd Canopy Regiment, Central Ngogo Forces.

[Steven Rinella]

My goodness.

[Corinne]

You guys need to watch this on YouTube. That was like.

[Steven Rinella]

That was a little. We need to send that to Ken. Burnt. That's Barge, who's been on the podcast. I gave Barge.

[Randall]

I gave Barge a preview, and he said, we need to send this to Ken Burns. Yeah, I've been thinking about doing that.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm going to send that to him.

[Randall]

I've been thinking about doing that ever since I read this headline, and Phil and I made it happen this morning.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a wonderful report.

[First Sergeant Knuckles]

Thank you.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I have to watch it again. I was so blown away by the concept. Yeah, Yeah.

[Randall]

I really wanted to do that, and Phil made it happen.

[Steven Rinella]

Thank you to you, Phil.

[Randall]

I appreciate it.

[Seth Morris]

Great idea.

[Randall]

This is. This. So this is story is actually pretty wild. Based on genetic evidence, they believe that chimpanzee communities split apart every 500 years. So it's a pretty rare thing, but basically what happened?

[Steven Rinella]

Communities split apart every five years.

[Randall]

I know they. So, like in 2015, 2014, some of the older chimps got sick, and some of the alpha males, like, there was among the central group, the outgoing and ingoing alpha male. Like, the alpha male got sick. Another guy took his place, but the new guy that took his place had actually been born into the other faction, and then he took over the dominance hierarchy of the central group.

[Steven Rinella]

Wow.

[Randall]

So it all kicked off where a group of them encountered. They encountered each other in the forest instead of Socializing. The researchers saw that the one group went silent and hid, and the other ones looked for them and then chased them. And then over the two. Two years after that, they kept distancing geographically and socially, and then they just started killing each other. They made the western chimps made six lethal attacks into central territory, and then they started killing infants. In 2021, they killed 17 infants, and another 14 chimps from the central faction have disappeared. Their bodies are never found. And so essentially, like, the takeaway is

[Brody]

that

[Randall]

they've tried to explain this by. Their hypothesis is that there were certain key figures that kind of bridged the communities. These older male chimps were kind of intermediaries, and they maintained relations. And when these older males got sick, like the statesman.

[Steven Rinella]

The older statesman died.

[Randall]

Yeah, exactly. And solder heads prevailed. So basically what they're saying is, like, you can have a big conflict spill out from individual interactions.

[Steven Rinella]

That was a hell of a report. You know, dudes, like American dudes will show up and fighting in Ukraine. I'm going to. I might try to get in on this war. Yeah, yeah. What side would I want to be on? Who's winning?

[Randall]

Western seems to be the aggressors.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah, I want to be on. I want to be on the win inside of that, because last thing I want is for them chimps to get a hold of me.

[Randall]

And then there's.

[Steven Rinella]

There's another ones.

[Randall]

The other really interesting thing is that in the 1970s, there is an episode called the Gombe War, which Jane Goodall observed. But there are doubts as to whether this is a natural behavior, because, quote, these chimps were eating bananas given to them by humans.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it.

[Randall]

So they're wondering if that was, like, a jealousy reason. And the lead author of this paper

[Steven Rinella]

says, so go to a bunch of little kids and give one of them banana.

[Randall]

Yeah, exactly. This is the first time you can definitively say that there is a rift in this chimp community that's basically driven by the chimps themselves.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So when you first told me some months ago that you were a big ape guy.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And I didn't think you were. Remember, I called you out on it.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I think you've proven yourself.

[Randall]

Okay, thank you.

[Spencer]

What is a frontline conflict look like? Are they, like, strangling each other? Are they clubbing each other?

[Steven Rinella]

You don't know about this?

[Spencer]

No, I don't.

[Steven Rinella]

We had that guy photographer on the podcast that photographs chimps killing each other.

[Randall]

Yeah, we were killing other.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, they.

[Brody]

They put on hunts for other.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, they rip Them pieces, they rip their genitals off. Oh, and didn't you just listen to this to Ken Burns thing?

[Spencer]

I did.

[Randall]

Yeah. Like they. They attack their faces and their genitals and do all tear their arms off.

[Steven Rinella]

You don't want to get involved one of them.

[Randall]

No, no. So that's what I got.

[Corinne]

That was brilliant.

[Seth Morris]

A lot of war out there.

[Steven Rinella]

That's your best report ever.

[Randall]

Thank you.

[Steven Rinella]

Thank you.

[Seth Morris]

It's great.

[Randall]

Yeah, man. I had a lot of fun with that. Thank you.

[Steven Rinella]

Great job. I'll send it to him.

[Randall]

Yeah, please do. I'd love to get his thoughts. Not a cease and desist.

[Brody]

Do you got a big if? He hates video production, Spencer.

[Spencer]

No video for mine. But Phil does have some imagery. Hippos are of course native to Sub Saharan Africa. There's about 150,000 of them living on the continent. But there are also about 200 hippos that call South America home. And they are a huge headache for wildlife biologists in Colombia. Now, before we get to those problems, let me tell you how they got there. It's 1981. Drug lord Pablo Escobar visits wildlife breeding facilities in the United States in search of his next exotic pets. His hacienda in northwest Colombia is already housing elephants, giraffes, rhinos, ostriches, zebras, kangaroos, lions, tigers, panthers, llamas, antelope, dolphins and more. There's just one thing missing.

[Brody]

He's a real nature lover.

[Spencer]

Yeah. One thing. It's gonna take his personal zoo to the next level. Hippos.

[Steven Rinella]

If I ever get arrested, I hope I look as self satisfied as that. He is not worried. He looks like he's on vacation.

[Corinne]

He's got a Hawaiian shirt.

[Seth Morris]

Looks like a man on spring break.

[Spencer]

So Pablo is in search of hippos. He goes to America and that's what he finds. Pablo winds up bringing home four hippos. Three of them are females, one is a male. It's unclear what the source of the hippos is, but historians believe they came from a private dealer in either Dallas or California. That's roughly where they've been traced to.

[Randall]

If I may. The gate to his zoo here bears an uncanny resemblance to the architecture of Jurassic Park. Even the font.

[Brody]

Yeah, the one in the background.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, and that. And he stole that airplane idea from Uncle Ted. Inspiring zebra striped airplane inspiring stuff.

[Spencer]

Okay, that was 1981. He finds his four hippos. Let's fast forward to 1993. Pablo Escobar has been on the land for 16 months after escaping prison. Eventually in December of that year, he's gunned down by Colombian special forces. While attempting to flee across a rooftop. Pablo takes bullets to the leg, torso and head and is pronounced dead at the scene. It's the day after his 44th.

[Steven Rinella]

And then those American DEA agents did grip and grins with them.

[Spencer]

Yeah, I considered putting that in there. Those pictures are all over the Internet. There's like 14 dudes standing with his mutilated.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like guys in Arizona, when they

[Spencer]

get out, it's exactly like that on the roof.

[Steven Rinella]

One of them gets.

[Spencer]

Yeah, he was killed. So in the aftermath of his death, the zoo is closed and wildlife officials start to relocate his animals. Almost everything finds a new home at a new facility. Besides four creatures, his hippos. This is because during the rehoming process, officials said the hippos were just simply too aggressive, too dangerous, and too difficult to move. So they left them there. Well, at some point in the 1990s, the Hippos take it upon themselves to find a new home and, and they break out of the zoo and escape to the nearby Magdalena. Magdalena river, serving as the founding population for South America's cocaine hippos.

[Steven Rinella]

That's how that happened.

[Spencer]

How it happened. I tried to find more specific details on their escape, like how did they get out of their enclosures, but nothing exists. They just got out on their own at some point in the 1990s. Now, by 2007, those four hippos turned into 16. By 2014, those 16 turned into 40. By 2019, those 40 turned into 120. And that brings us to today, where it's estimated that there is a population of 200.

[Steven Rinella]

And they all have the same great. They all have the same, like, great, great, great, great.

[Spencer]

They all came from those four founding one male cocaine hippos. Their growth is like Seth's baby at this point, it just cannot be stopped. Biologists speculate at this rate, the hippos will exceed 1000 in the next decade.

[First Sergeant Knuckles]

Wow.

[Spencer]

Yeah. So what problems do they create? Well, for starters, 200 hippos, they take up a lot of space and a lot of food. They're displacing native fauna such as manatees, otters, cayman and turtles. The hippos also increasing the nutrient levels in the water, which might sound like a good thing, but this burst of hippo fertilizer is actually creating enormous algae blooms, which in turn trigger other die offs. And then there's just the sheer mass of the hippos is literally changing the waterways there. Their wallows are now filling up with water and creating side channels and ponds that otherwise did not exist. You know, there's totally scarring the landscape.

[Brody]

Real dangerous. Have they killed anyone? Columbia.

[Spencer]

There has been pretty minor conflict so far. It seems. I could not find that they've had interactions with humans. We'll get to some of that in a second here. Some folks do argue that the hippos are actually doing more good than harm. Locals have reported that illegal dynamite fishing is at an all time low because poachers are simply scared. That's right. So there's, there's some good. This story has also been of interest to proponents of the Pleistocene rewilding project, which advocates for reintroducing megafauna to places where they're missing. In this case, the African hippo is taking the place of toxodons, which are a hippo like creature that went extinct about 12,000 years ago. We're looking at one of them here, but for the most part, it's agreed upon that having these hippos is not sustainable and something needs to be done. In 2020, they tried castrating the hippos, which was a ton of work and cost about $50,000 per hippo. That was a short lived effort.

[Corinne]

Did anyone get injured doing that?

[Spencer]

They did. One singular hippo and we're like, we're done. This, this is not 50 grand. Not the answer. 50 grand to castrate one hippo that they then let go.

[Randall]

I'll give it a shot.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Be like, the hippo will be like, how about you give me 50 grand? I just proud promise. Gotcha's promise.

[Spencer]

In 2021, they explored sterilizing the hippos with the vaccine. But that got litigated to hell and it quickly fell out of favor. In 2023, a trap and transfer program was pitched that would place these hippos in zoos across the world. But so far, that hasn't gone anywhere. And then earlier this month, Colombian officials approved a euthanasia program that aims to eliminate 80 hippos from the herd. And it remains to be seen if and when that plan will go into action. And then the most recent development comes from 24 hours ago, which is when Indian billionaire Anant Ambani made a formal request to the Colombian government to let him take some of the hippos. This just happened yesterday. He's offering to foot the $3.5 million bill to have 80 of them relocated to his wildlife preserve in India. It's considered the world's biggest animal rehabilitation center. It's called Ventara. It's already home to 250 leopards, 900 crocodiles, 200 lions, 160 tigers, and 50 bears.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, my.

[Spencer]

There is no word yet on if the Columbia is going to agree to his ambition.

[Steven Rinella]

But you got to bring in some. Some serious hard hitting wranglers.

[Spencer]

I mean, that's why it's going to cost them.

[Brody]

Yeah, yeah. Then you got to get them all the way across the damn world.

[Steven Rinella]

Cody Farion level kind of stuff, man.

[Corinne]

The buyers the so of the richest man in Asia.

[Spencer]

Yes.

[Katie Lane]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Spencer]

So this. This has been probably get him on the pod that's been simmering in Colombia for like a decade, but now it feels like it's boiling because they keep reproducing at such an insane rate.

[Steven Rinella]

Hell report.

[Corinne]

That was a great breaking news hit too.

[Spencer]

Thank you.

[Randall]

We saw a hippo skull at the museum of the Rockies. Yeah, that was the.

[Steven Rinella]

One of the wild.

[Randall]

One of the wildest things I've ever looked at.

[Steven Rinella]

So you know how I'm like an expert on Africa?

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, here's what I heard. When they hunt those hippos, you'll shoot them. Like, you hang out where they're gonna pop up and they'll shoot them and the hippo sinks. You just hang out and wait till it bloats and it'll surface.

[Spencer]

Is that hours?

[Steven Rinella]

Hours.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, think about how a deer. Like if you don't. If you find a deer like an hour later, it's sort of, you know, you hang out for a couple hours and he rises up to the surface with bloated gas. Then you got to pick someone. And no one wants this job. Swimming out there, getting a rope on it because crocodiles. Yeah. Not a job anybody wants. It's getting a rope on it and then you drag it up to the beach.

[Spencer]

It's how we've solved dynamite fishing in there.

[Steven Rinella]

So less of that report.

[Corinne]

Good job, Spencer.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, my God. Man. This should be like an award I

[Randall]

would like to remind everybody about that

[Steven Rinella]

came earlier yet, but he's got like the p. I mean, he didn't make a documentary or anything.

[Randall]

No, I just.

[Spencer]

I'll give my prize to Randall.

[Randall]

Oh, no, you don't have to do that. Don't have to do that.

[Seth Morris]

You're prematurely accepting the prize.

[Randall]

Appreciate it.

[Steven Rinella]

Sure.

[Corinne]

This report is more like a little brief psa. If anyone has plans to visit the Great Smoky Mountains national park, please be beware. The other weekend that there were six separate black bear related incidents in various areas of the park.

[Steven Rinella]

Is that amazing? Six separate?

[Corinne]

Yeah. Well, Some of them was with the same bear, but yes, six incidents. And so this park runs across eastern incident. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Not like someone got scratched.

[Corinne]

Well, no, I mean, somebody got bit.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, okay.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So.

[Katie Lane]

So it.

[Corinne]

There are a couple of different things that happen, but yeah. So this, if anyone doesn't know where Great Smoky Mountains national park is, it spans part of eastern Tennessee into western North Carolina. And as of now, it seems that most of these areas have reopened, but they were closed for a couple of days and then reopened with no bear activity. But the following incidents were reported. So two bears approached visitors and stole backpacks, and a third bear displayed aggressive behavior and chased off a group of visitors. Then there was an aggressive bear involved in three incidents at the same location, the same bear. And one instance was. Is that a bear. This bear actually bit a visitor who

[Katie Lane]

had

[Corinne]

gone into an area that was restricted and closed. So that is kind of, I think, more action than we've seen recently. And there are 1900, approximately 1900 black bears in that park. And this is the time where mama bears are coming out of dens with their cubs and there are a lot of visitors.

[Brody]

I was, I was reading Corinne Gatlinburg's like right next to the park right there, Gatlinburg, Tennessee. And they, they like, they have a bad urban bear. Like they think the park is like helping to create this urban bear problem.

[Steven Rinella]

Tennessee is in the top five bear tech states.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But when you look at it, it's like one of those things where five is not. You're getting down to a very small number, meaning you look at like Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, you know, you're up in the teens or whatever. And then by the time you get down to number five, you're down to like two or three. But it's still number. It's still within top five bear tech states.

[Brody]

But it makes sense because, you know, Smoky Mountain national parks, like, surrounded by millions of people.

[Spencer]

So it's like most visited national park,

[Brody]

you know, that's gonna. All those bears are gonna spill over.

[Corinne]

You know, I tried to find out if any of those bears had been euthanized. And I didn't find information that they had been captured or euthanized. But on the NPS website, it stated that if they're dangerous, they will euthanize black bears.

[Steven Rinella]

We're going to close out with a story from Gabon. How do you say it?

[Brody]

Gabon.

[Steven Rinella]

Gabone. I think it's Gabon Gabon, which Brody says has phenomenal fishing.

[Brody]

Yeah, I want to go. I've wanted to go for decades.

[Steven Rinella]

I Want to go there? I want to go there because it's like, it's like jungle, you know, but

[Brody]

they got nice beaches there too.

[Steven Rinella]

So a hunter from California was killed there. It's important to point out here the hunter that was killed there. And yeah, an American, you know, a guy from California was there in a big game hunting dikers. Yellow backed dikers. Okay. But he was killed by elephants. The party, his hunting party, they ran across a group of five elephants. They were trampled and he got gored by a female elephant. So it's, it's, you know, a tragic thing. It happens. I remember like last year, the year we were in Africa filming. I remember two Americans got killed by Kate buffalo that year. I guess it's still the same year now. Or is it a different year now? It's a different year now. Yeah. An American killed by an elephant hunting there. But the coverage on it is very predictable. Ricky Gervais, like, big PETA guy, he's glad. Like he says the best thing is they'll never forget it. But it's like he wasn't even. He was hunting elephants, just wrong place. He's hunting dikers. But it's like celebrated. What's also funny is like people, this happens every time something happens in Africa is the amount of money that the individual is worth becomes a big part of the story. So it's like he was killed, but a millionaire was killed in Africa. So people are like, thank God. Yeah, thank God it wasn't a guy with less money.

[Brody]

You don't see a headline like blue collar hunter escapes elephant in Africa.

[Steven Rinella]

No, it's, it's just, it's like weird. They always, that's like always a point. It's always a point because you're like, millionaire u. S. Big game hunter trampled to death by elephants while hunting in central Africa.

[Brody]

Especially if it's British coverage, they really

[Steven Rinella]

like to point out that, yeah, they're the ones that name Brian Harmon. Brian the butcher because he likes to hunt deer. The golfer. Yeah, Dude hunted all over the place. But yeah, man always gets covered that way. The only thing that you can do if. The only thing worse if you are a. If you, if something happens to you in Africa and you're a rich white guy, the only thing worse than being a rich white guy would be in an attractive young woman. That especially infuriates people. Remember that young woman killed that lion. It didn't. They're like, oh, I was hoping to be a rich white guy. It's an attractive young woman. I'M gonna be outraged. Outraged. Cheerleader. Yeah. It's like they get more mad. What's this fellow's name?

[Randall]

Ernie Dosio.

[Steven Rinella]

Ernie Dosio or Docio.

[Randall]

I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

Big game hunter, killed in Africa by an elephant.

[Corinne]

75 years old, has family outliving him. It's sad.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. Well, I wish we'd end on a happier note. What's something we could do that was like a happier note?

[Randall]

We'd play the chimp.

[Steven Rinella]

Seth had a new baby.

[Randall]

Yeah, Yeah. I was gonna say we played the chimp video again with his wife.

[Seth Morris]

With death, there's life, you know?

[Randall]

How's Kelsey doing on your first day back?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, let's end happy.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, she said he's. He won't go down for a nap and he's pretty restless today, so.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I said end on a happy.

[Randall]

Yeah, I know.

[Seth Morris]

He's cute as hell.

[Steven Rinella]

He's cute. That's it, ladies and gentlemen. That's new. Baby's cute.

[I]

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[Steven Rinella]

hey, it's Steven Rinella. If you're looking to build a deck that's tough, long lasting, and still affordable, Summit decking from deckorators is a great option. Summit uses Deckorators patented Surestone technology so the boards won't splinter, sag, chalk, or crack over time. And it comes in three colors that really capture the natural look of wood. It's the best decking you didn't know you could afford. Peak build season is coming up, so order a sample today. Visit Deckorators.com Meater to get your free Summit sample. That's decorators with A K. Again, decorators.comeater we have a little family dog that our kids got from the dog pound named Tracker. I always like to tease them about that dog, but it's their best little buddy. And she was getting kind of depressed about dry dog food. Like, this dog was legitimately, like, bummed out when you fed it. So we got it some fresh dog food. Man, that dog, it has brought a whole new level of enjoyment to that dog's life. One of the problems with fresh dog food is a lot of it comes frozen. Okay? So when you buy it, then all of a sudden your freezer is now full of all this frozen dog food. And it's a hassle because when you go to travel or take it out camping, you got to keep it in coolers. All kinds of logistics. Well, check this out. Just fresh from just food for dogs is a real fresh dog food made with human grade ingredients like actual meat and vegetables. But it's shelf stable. It doesn't take up freezer or cooler space. There's no prep. You can toss a few packs in the truck. And then we know that little Tracker, she's going to have a healthy meal wherever we end up. It's a game changer. She loves this stuff. We laugh when we watch how much she likes this dog food. It's also the number one vet recommended fresh dog food made without preservatives or fillers. Get some and try it out. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order.

[Katie Lane]

This is an iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.