Title: Ep. 635: Working on Grizzly Bears
Podcast: The MeatEater Podcast
Host: Steven Rinella
Guest: Dusty Lassiter, Former Wyoming Game and Fish Bear Management Specialist
Release Date: December 9, 2024

Introduction

In Episode 635 of The MeatEater Podcast, host Steven Rinella engages in an in-depth conversation with Dusty Lassiter, a seasoned bear management specialist from Wyoming. The episode delves into the complexities of grizzly bear management, conservation policies, and the practical challenges faced by wildlife officials and hunters alike.

Guest Background and Career Overview

[03:09] Dusty Lassiter: "I started in 2010, and I was initially supposed to be here for just one fall and one spring. But due to high demand, I ended up staying on for eleven years."

Dusty shares his journey, highlighting the intense workload during his tenure, including handling up to 67 grizzly bear captures in a single year outside Yellowstone National Park. His expertise grew rapidly, culminating in managing over 1,200 bears by the end of his career.

Bear Trapping and Relocation Methods

[03:54] Dusty Lassiter: "We used culvert traps, which are large square-box traps. Pulling a bear in and out of them was a real pain."

Dusty explains the primary methods used for trapping grizzlies, focusing on culvert traps and the challenges they present. He discusses bait strategies, such as using roadkill deer and specific lures like beaver caster, apples, and watermelon to attract bears effectively.

Notable Quote:
[10:46] Dusty Lassiter: "A lot of times, we make a drag, and they'll follow a drag for a long, long way."

Infamous Bear Cases: 399 and 104

[13:08] Dusty Lassiter: "Bear 399 became a polarizing figure. Some loved her, some hated her, but she was still a grizzly bear."

The discussion shifts to specific bear cases that have become symbols within the conservation community. Bear 399 and Bear 104 are highlighted as examples of how individual bears can influence public perception and policy. Dusty critiques the emotional attachment to these bears, which often complicates objective management efforts.

Notable Quote:
[19:06] Steve Rinella: "When you say people hated that bear, do you mean because it was a symbol for something?"

[19:12] Dusty Lassiter: "I think people would make comments that really ruffled feathers, like saying they'd hunt that bear out of spite."

Delisting Grizzlies and the Endangered Species Act (ESA)

[41:07] Dusty Lassiter: "The ESA is supposed to help recover species, but it's been weaponized to block delisting efforts."

Dusty provides a comprehensive overview of the grizzly bear delisting process under the ESA. He explains how distinct population segments (DPS) are designated in specific ecosystems, such as the Northern Cascade and Greater Yellowstone Ecosystems (GYE), and the political and legal battles that often thwart delisting efforts.

Notable Quote:
[116:13] Steve Rinella: "2% of the things that go on the ESA come off because of recovery. Why is it not celebrated?"

Population Estimates and Management Strategies

[39:00] Dusty Lassiter: "In the Rockies, a big bear is 500 pounds. The biggest I caught was 624 pounds."

Dusty delves into the challenges of accurately estimating grizzly populations. He discusses the evolution from the early Chow 2 model, which underestimated populations due to large home range assumptions, to the more recent integrated population models that provide estimates around 1,030 bears in Wyoming.

Notable Quote:
[64:35] Dusty Lassiter: "Bears are solitary but not territorial. Their home ranges overlap, making them hard to count."

Bear Safety: Bear Spray vs. Firearms

[26:02] Dusty Lassiter: "Without a doubt, bear spray."

The conversation turns to bear safety measures. Dusty advocates strongly for bear spray over firearms, citing its effectiveness and lower risk of accidental injury. He shares anecdotes highlighting the pitfalls of firearm use in bear encounters, including accidental shootings and ineffective responses.

Notable Quote:
[28:08] Dusty Lassiter: "A lot of people just aren't good shots. Bear spray creates a four-foot cloud, so you don't have to be accurate."

Handling Aggressive Bears and Conflict Scenarios

[73:13] Dusty Lassiter: "Most bear mauls are surprise encounters, often involving sows with cubs."

Dusty recounts various conflict scenarios, emphasizing that most aggressive encounters occur when humans inadvertently surprise bears, especially mothers with cubs or bears defending food sources. He offers practical advice on preventing and managing such conflicts, including the strategic use of bear spray and environmental deterrents like fires to mask human scents.

Notable Quote:
[84:25] Dusty Lassiter: "If a bear is intent on hurting you, their head is as low to the ground as possible. Aim low."

Conservation Policy Critique

[96:11] Dusty Lassiter: "State management coupled with regulated hunting could better manage bear populations and reduce conflicts."

Dusty critiques the current application of the ESA, arguing that it has been misused by environmental organizations to block effective bear management strategies. He suggests that state-managed hunting, when properly regulated, can coexist with conservation goals, fostering greater public support and reducing bear-human conflicts.

Notable Quote:
[117:00] Steve Rinella: "My advice to people who support the ESA is to stop weaponizing it."

Personal Insights and Future Directions

[120:02] Dusty Lassiter: "I think hunting is a positive because it creates advocates for wildlife."

In the final segments, Dusty shares personal reflections on his transition from wildlife management to guiding, expressing a desire to continue contributing to wildlife conservation in more supportive roles. He emphasizes the need for pragmatic approaches that integrate hunting with conservation to maintain balanced ecosystems.

Notable Quote:
[104:17] Dusty Lassiter: "It's the best thing to keep states in managing bears, which is probably the best thing for the people on the landscape."

Conclusion

Episode 635 of The MeatEater Podcast offers a nuanced exploration of grizzly bear management, highlighting the interplay between conservation policies, hunting regulations, and practical field challenges. Dusty Lassiter's expertise provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the issues surrounding grizzly conservation and the importance of balanced, pragmatic management strategies.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [10:46] Dusty Lassiter: "A lot of times, we make a drag, and they'll follow a drag for a long, long way."
• [26:52] Dusty Lassiter: "Without a doubt, bear spray."
• [41:07] Dusty Lassiter: "The ESA is supposed to help recover species, but it's been weaponized to block delisting efforts."
• [64:35] Dusty Lassiter: "Bears are solitary but not territorial. Their home ranges overlap, making them hard to count."
• [84:25] Dusty Lassiter: "If a bear is intent on hurting you, their head is as low to the ground as possible. Aim low."
• [117:00] Steve Rinella: "My advice to people who support the ESA is to stop weaponizing it."
• [104:17] Dusty Lassiter: "It's the best thing to keep states in managing bears, which is probably the best thing for the people on the landscape."

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in wildlife conservation, hunting ethics, and the intricate balance required to manage grizzly bear populations effectively.