Ep. 679: Talking Turkey

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast - Episode 679: Talking Turkey

Release Date: March 24, 2025

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Overview

In Episode 679 of The MeatEater Podcast, host Steven Rinella engages in an in-depth discussion centered around turkey hunting. The episode delves into hunting strategies, the evolving landscape of hunting regulations across various states, and the impact of conservation funding on outdoor activities. With a lively panel of guests, including fellow hunters and outdoor enthusiasts, the conversation blends practical advice with personal anecdotes, offering valuable insights for both seasoned hunters and newcomers alike.

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Turkey Hunting Strategies and Challenges

Turkey Calling Contest

The episode kicks off with an energetic segment on the upcoming Turkey Calling Contest. Rinella expresses skepticism about the competitiveness of Northern hunters versus their Southern counterparts, highlighting the inherent advantages Southerners possess in turkey calling.

• Rinella (10:21): "My complaint about the turkey calling contest is. It's like it's set up for Southerners to win. Do you know what I mean?"

The discussion emphasizes the cultural and environmental factors that make Southern hunters more adept at turkey calling, questioning the fairness of the contest structure.

Reaping and Its Dangers

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the controversial hunting strategy known as "reaping," which involves stalking turkeys while hiding behind decoys or tail fans. Rinella warns of the inherent risks associated with reaping, including accidental shootings and potential legal repercussions.

• Rinella (58:44): "In the meantime, I would advise people, as we head out into the turkey woods this spring, just don't shoot at random tail fans or random movement."

Guests share their experiences and concerns, underscoring the importance of gun safety and responsible hunting practices to prevent tragic incidents.

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State Regulations Impacting Turkey Hunting

South Carolina's New Regulations

Rinella and his guests dissect the latest regulatory changes in South Carolina that aim to preserve turkey populations by restricting the hunting of immature toms (jakes). The new rule mandates that hunters must identify a tom to have a beard longer than six inches and a full tail fan before harvesting.

• Chili (49:26): "This puts the onus on the hunter to identify a tom that has a beard longer than 6 inches and a full tail fan."

The panel discusses the ecological rationale behind these changes, questioning their effectiveness and the broader implications for hunters.

Florida's New Rules for Non-Residents

The conversation shifts to Florida, where new regulations prohibit non-residents from participating in the first three days of the turkey hunting season. This move is seen as a response to ensure that residents have priority access to prime hunting opportunities.

• Chili (61:54): "They were done weeks ago because they get excited about this kind of stuff and it's already spring."

Rinella critiques the regulation, expressing frustration over the limitations it imposes on non-resident hunters while acknowledging the need for resident priority in conservation efforts.

Colorado's Public Land Protection

In a proactive move, Colorado has passed Senate Joint Resolution 25 009, declaring opposition to the sale or privatization of its 22 million acres of public land. This resolution aims to safeguard public lands from external pressures and maintain their accessibility for outdoor activities.

• Chili (75:56): "This is in response to a bunch of the stuff that we've been covering over the last couple of months. Utah's lawsuit, which is going to be resubmitted here pretty quick."

The panel applauds Colorado's stance, highlighting it as a model for other states grappling with similar land management challenges.

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Conservation Funding and Habitat Montana

Habitat Montana Fund

Rinella and his guests delve into the intricacies of conservation funding, specifically focusing on Montana's Habitat Montana fund. This initiative allocates tax revenues from recreational marijuana sales to habitat preservation and public land maintenance.

• Chili (76:07): "Habitat Montana is a habitat fund, right? It's set aside specifically to address our state parks maintenance funding for habitat work that can address like non-game species specifically."

The discussion highlights the successes of the fund in eliminating maintenance backlogs and supporting habitat restoration projects. However, recent legislative attempts to divert these funds have sparked concern among hunters and conservationists.

• Chili (80:22): "If HB 307 were to pass, it would remove this funding to use it for something different."

The panel underscores the importance of dedicated conservation funding mechanisms in ensuring the sustainability of wildlife populations and public land access.

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Anecdotes and Community Stories

True Crime Turkey Hunting Case in Virginia

A compelling segment features a discussion about a 20-year-old cold case involving a turkey hunter in Virginia who was fatally shot during a hunting expedition. Rinella teases a forthcoming special episode by guest Jordan Sillers, who investigates the circumstances surrounding the unsolved case.

• Cal (24:46): "It was like no one collected the cigarette. And it was."

The conversation speculates on potential motives and the challenges of solving such cases within the tight-knit hunting communities.

Mountain Lion Sightings in Michigan's Upper Peninsula

The panel discusses reported sightings of mountain lions in regions where they were previously undocumented, attributing these sightings to either escaping pets or naturally wandering individuals. Rinella reflects on the difficulty of distinguishing between actual wildlife and escaped domesticated animals.

• Rinella (35:33): "First confirmation in 100 years in the Up in Michigan, two mountain lion kittens in a hundred years."

The guests ponder the implications of such sightings on local ecosystems and hunting practices.

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Conclusion

Episode 679 of The MeatEater Podcast offers a robust exploration of turkey hunting, blending regulatory analysis with firsthand experiences and community narratives. Steven Rinella and his guests provide a nuanced perspective on the balance between effective hunting practices, conservation efforts, and regulatory frameworks. The episode serves as a valuable resource for hunters seeking to navigate the complexities of modern turkey hunting while advocating for sustainable wildlife management and public land preservation.

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Notable Quotes

• Rinella (10:21): "My complaint about the turkey calling contest is. It's like it's set up for Southerners to win. Do you know what I mean?"

• Rinella (58:44): "In the meantime, I would advise people, as we head out into the turkey woods this spring, just don't shoot at random tail fans or random movement."

• Chili (49:26): "This puts the onus on the hunter to identify a tom that has a beard longer than 6 inches and a full tail fan."

• Chili (61:54): "They were done weeks ago because they get excited about this kind of stuff and it's already spring."

• Chili (75:56): "This is in response to a bunch of the stuff that we've been covering over the last couple of months. Utah's lawsuit, which is going to be resubmitted here pretty quick."

• Chili (76:07): "Habitat Montana is a habitat fund, right? It's set aside specifically to address our state parks maintenance funding for habitat work that can address like non-game species specifically."

• Chili (80:22): "If HB 307 were to pass, it would remove this funding to use it for something different."

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions of the episode.

Transcript

[Ritual]

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[Steve Rinella]

Hey American history buffs. Hunting history buffs, listen up. We're back at it with another volume of our Meat Eaters American History series. In this edition, titled the Mountain Men 1806-1840, we tackle the Rocky Mountain beaver trade and dive into the lives and legends of fellows like Jim Bridger, Jed Smith and John Colter. This small but legendary fraternity of backwoodsmen helped define an era when the west represented not just unmapped territory, but untapped opportunity for those willing to endure some heinous and at times, violent conditions. We explain what started the Mountain man era and what ended it. We tell you everything you'd ever want to know about what the mountain men ate, how they hunted and trapped, what gear they carried, what clothes they wore, how they interact with Native Americans, how 10% of them died violent deaths, and even detailed descriptions of how they performed amputations on the fly. It's as dark and bloody and good as our previous volume about the white tailed deer skin trade, which is titled the Long Hunters 1761-1775. So again, you can buy this wherever audiobooks are sold. Meat Eaters American History the Mountain Men 1806-1840 by Stephen Rinella this is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless.

[Chili]

We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast.

[Steve Rinella]

You can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by first light, whether you're checking trail cams, hang gear stands, or scouting for elk. First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light dot com. F I R-S-T-L-I-T-E dot com. You know what was humiliating for Randall?

[Randall]

What?

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, you might as well turn the machine on, Phil.

[Chili]

Oh, it's been on, Steve.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Randall]

Get ready for a lot of that.

[Steve Rinella]

This I'm gonna start off with telling everybody I'm dying. What's that? No, you know what? I can't work up any lugs even when I work one up. Like, watch. You don't have pneumonia.

[Randall]

Jesus.

[Steve Rinella]

What are we doing?

[Corey]

You'll know you're getting better when it starts loosening up.

[Steve Rinella]

Contagious. Listen, even when I work one up, it. It's like. It's like I'm drawing it up from my balls, man. It's like coming from deep down, you know?

[Corey]

I just want the suits at Meat Eater to know when we're all out at work. Steve wasn't contagious. Like, we got sick somehow.

[Steve Rinella]

Else. Listen, man, it's not my fault. I told everybody I'm sick. There's like, you got, you know, I got hemmed over here.

[Corey]

I don't think it's. But if we get sick, it'll be your fault.

[Steve Rinella]

Tough dude. Listen, anyways, I'm pulling it. I'm pulling that phlegm up for my nuts. I can't.

[Corey]

I don't think that's flam.

[Steve Rinella]

It hangs up. It hangs up around my sternum. I can't get it up.

[Randall]

Getting old.

[Chili]

Don't have the strength for that. Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

So. Yeah, the loopy bucket. There's nothing that. If you gave me a loogie bucket. It's a dry bucket.

[Phil]

Phil, do we want to start this over? We're good.

[Chili]

Oh, I think we're good.

[Steve Rinella]

They do have medicine. Oh, I was gonna say what's humiliating for Randall's. Randall. As much as he's like a gun nut and everything. What kind of gun are you making right now?

[Phil]

It's a. I'm converting a HK USC To UMP Yeah.

[Randall]

You don't even know what the hell that means.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, I hope it's time.

[Phil]

I'm gonna get out in front of this. It's not a flintlock.

[Steve Rinella]

What was humiliating for Randall's. Randall trying to shoot a flintlock he can't get used to. He can't get used to the fact you gotta wait a second.

[Randall]

Most camp.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Yeah. I mean, I, I. If you're gonna shoot a flintlock for the first time, I highly recommend you do it while being filmed by two people with Steve looking over your shoulder. It just makes it for a really nice experience.

[Randall]

It's hard for people to get over the little explosion in their face.

[Phil]

Yeah, I know. We're going.

[Chili]

I need you to fill up the frame, because right now, Seth and Cal look lonely over there.

[Corey]

Are you saying Randall wouldn't have made it as a mountain man?

[Steve Rinella]

Jesus. He'd been fine.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Phil]

I mean, I could see leaving that day other than being totally humiliated. I could see how it would be interesting to, like, get used to that and sort of train that into your brain, like, if I. If I had access to one and a little bit of time, it'd be fun to get better at it. But, yeah, it's. It threw me for a loop.

[Randall]

It's key to have your system dialed where as soon as you pull the trigger, the thing's going off. Yeah, you don't want a hang.

[Phil]

Fire the first two shots. I didn't even need to look at the target. I said this rifle was pointing in a completely different direction by the time it went off, so I got some stuff to share.

[Steve Rinella]

You guys want to try something interesting? Sure. Yep. There's. So there's these dudes I know I've bought. There's these dudes I know up at. They live. They're in Cake, Alaska, and they make. You ever hear sage brush dry? You know that dry bag? I have sage brush dry, dry bag. Like. Like a real. They make a really nice rubberized. Like a. Like a submersible dry bag. Like a dry bag, dry bag.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Anyways, they sent me. I've bought bags from them, and they sent me. That's black seaweed they make. Try that.

[Chili]

Heck, yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

And this is sockeye salmon they make. And dry bags.

[Randall]

So you just. You just eat it.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Try it out. It's good. It's interesting. I'm gonna get into that. You know what? We were doing that. That I hadn't done before.

[Randall]

Smells like fat.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Corinne would get a kick out of this because it's kind of Chinese, you know?

[Cal]

Is it. Does it have to do with flavors?

[Steve Rinella]

I haven't told you that. You want some cooking up the. Just like, taking the kelp. Just grab kelp out of the ocean.

[Cal]

Yep.

[Steve Rinella]

Were you there when we were doing this, Seth?

[Randall]

Salty.

[Steve Rinella]

But just taking kelp out of the ocean?

[Randall]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Cutting it like noodles.

[Randall]

No, I wasn't there, but I don't.

[Steve Rinella]

Think it's the easiest thing in the world, dude. You take kelp out the tube part no, no, the leaves. Just. You find them whatever floating around. My kids are always dragging boat and I'm always yelling at them about it. Cut it into noodles and just steam them and put butter and salt on it. Damn, that is good, man. It's, like, ridiculous. You don't need to bring any kind of vegetables up there.

[Phil]

This is good.

[Steve Rinella]

Do you like that seaweed?

[Randall]

I don't.

[Cal]

Come on, guys.

[Steve Rinella]

I think it's good.

[Cal]

Delicious.

[Chili]

Hey, Corinne, I'm sorry. I'm saying this with the most love I can muster. Show up all the time you need. Even when you think you're close to the mic, you're never close enough to the microphone.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay, look.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Wow, man, I'm getting close. And I'm chewing with my mouth.

[Randall]

I can feel the love.

[Steve Rinella]

It's like, from a producer. I mean, like, producer to producer, you know? That's a real hit.

[Corey]

Who's got a knife? Pry this stuff out of here.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, there.

[Chili]

Oh, don't use that. God knows where it's been.

[Steve Rinella]

So carry the good folks.

[Corey]

I got it. I got it.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, it's good, isn't it?

[Cal]

It's delicious. And it's, like, kind of. It's purple.

[Steve Rinella]

See, when I retire, I used to think that. You don't like it, Chili, I feel.

[Phil]

Like I'm Candy Garrett here.

[Randall]

It's not disgusting for Levi.

[Steve Rinella]

No, it's not disgusting, but it's like. I used to think when I retire and move up to my shack, I.

[Cal]

Was like, yeah, Brody, all I need.

[Steve Rinella]

Is, like, butter and gas and vegetables. But I don't even eat vegetables. I just need gas and butter.

[Randall]

It's just me or it tastes like fat. Like. Like a raw fat.

[Steve Rinella]

Look at what Brody's making.

[Cal]

I'm wondering. The salt, the sodium, and that sea flavor that has, like, a little bit of, like, bacon fat kind of flavor.

[Steve Rinella]

Corey, can you come into a mic here and tell everybody what's going on now?

[Randall]

What.

[Steve Rinella]

What your problem is?

[Randall]

What's your problem, Corey?

[Phil]

Well, I don't think I have a problem.

[Steve Rinella]

You do. You gotta have it. Be that. Now the Northern. The. The Northern people get beat by the Southern people at Turkey Calling. Oh, well, there's a lot more enthusiasm coming out of the South, I'll tell you that much. We got a Turkey Calling contest coming, and it's my job to coordinate all these videos for this contest. And all three of our Southern participants.

[Chili]

They were done weeks ago because they.

[Steve Rinella]

Get excited about this kind of stuff.

[Chili]

And it's already spring.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, that's.

[Chili]

I mean.

[Steve Rinella]

I mean, That's a good point too.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

It's snowing out here right now.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

You could be ice fishing if you were risking it. Or skiing. But we're not turkey hunting yet. No, no. And barely. Southerners. Are you gonna film this contest on that on your phone or you're just using Phil's camera here? No, I got. I'll use it. It's also.

[Chili]

Turn it on. Completely pointless to look for turkeys right now.

[Steve Rinella]

How long can mine be? I mean, there's three rounds. Make them just 15 seconds each. No, no, this is a way long. I'm only doing one round. But you got to do a little intro. Like, here's round one. Okay. Turkey calling sequence.

[Chili]

Round two.

[Steve Rinella]

It's not like that though. I can. I can cut it up. Okay. Corey's just trying to do his job over here because here. Here's my complaint about the annual turkey calling contest is. My complaint about the turkey calling contest is. It's like. It's like it's set up for Southerners to win. Do you know what I mean? Why don't you have a contest who can talk the most like Abe Lincoln.

[Chili]

Wow.

[Steve Rinella]

There's something about. I know there's something about that, yo. That like lends itself to turkey calling. We're better at spot and stocking. It's like. It's like. There's like the Southerners are always super good at turkey calling. And then you gotta have then a northerner guys to play against them and he's not gonna win.

[Phil]

We don't have the right twang.

[Steve Rinella]

So maybe we should have an elk calling. Like they just got. There's just. There's so much more. I mean, like life in the north is just. It's more complicated. There's more going on. And you can't just sit back and luxuriate in calling turkeys.

[Corey]

The Southerners are born with a call.

[Steve Rinella]

In their mouth and they don't have to worry about any kind of bad weather. Do you know what I mean? Like here you got to be. You got to be on your game, man.

[Phil]

Ice cold hurricanes, tornadoes, that doesn't count.

[Steve Rinella]

No, they call. No, they call turkeys right through those hurricanes. They just sit on their porch like calling turkeys. And we're like, you can't go out on your porch a lot of the times a year here.

[Corey]

Too dangerous.

[Steve Rinella]

Too dangerous.

[Chili]

What porch?

[Steve Rinella]

You freeze to death. A barrel gets you. So there's down here.

[Phil]

And with nothing.

[Steve Rinella]

Nothing to do. Yeah. And thinking about this, Corey. So here's round one. And think about this. I want to set the mood. Don't be playing turkey videos in your.

[Phil]

On your computer.

[Steve Rinella]

Right. Oh, I need to do another thing.

[Corey]

One of the best movies ever.

[Steve Rinella]

I'm playing Civil War, you know, to set the north south thing. No, what I was gonna do, because I can't beat those guys on all their crazy sounds. But here's. Here's. I was thinking this morning. I was sitting there thinking about this, and so I started listening to, like, why don't we compare it to what turkey sound like?

[Chili]

Ready?

[Steve Rinella]

Watch. Here's a real turkey. You guys know Jay Scott J. Scott outdoors. Okay. Here, Jay Scott. Here's a real turkey. You can see the turkey on here. Okay. Raspy round one, huh? Here's a real turkey. Here's a Yankee. Here's a real turkey. Yankee. Now, if that's not phenomenal turkey calling, I don't know what is.

[Chili]

Yep.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. I's going right now. Good night.

[Phil]

Thank you, ma'am.

[Chili]

Diaphragm selection is really important. So you want to get the one that has the least amount of coffee cup residue and seeds and stuff. And you gotta suck.

[Steve Rinella]

Where's that pack? Where's that pack of diaphragms?

[Chili]

I use all three of them at once.

[Steve Rinella]

He just stacks them in there.

[Chili]

That's a gobble. Thank you.

[Steve Rinella]

Are you going right now, Seth? Oh, no.

[Randall]

I'm not part of it.

[Steve Rinella]

You're not part of it. He'd probably win. He should be part of it. He might beat the Southerners.

[Phil]

I know.

[Steve Rinella]

Appreciate.

[Phil]

Sure a lot of these guys. Not me.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. Ready?

[Phil]

Fine with that.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, but did you really use all those?

[Chili]

I did. I.

[Phil]

But he's. He's. He's healthy. I'd be worried about the inverse of that transaction, but it was a shot gobble.

[Steve Rinella]

What do you mean? What.

[Chili]

What's your best shot gobble?

[Steve Rinella]

Everybody else down south is doing an owl boot. Oh, I didn't. I haven't. I didn't know that's what we were doing. Well, there's.

[Corey]

Do your Blue J. Crow call.

[Steve Rinella]

I wish I had it with me. If I had it with me. Well, no, no, that's not my. That's not my Blue J call. I don't have it with me. I didn't know that that's what I needed.

[Chili]

It was in the email.

[Corey]

He already said he can't see. It's a side effect of his illness.

[Steve Rinella]

Let's cough.

[Chili]

That would be good. Or you got a car door you could slam real quick.

[Randall]

Yeah, you should go out in the parking lot.

[Steve Rinella]

What's that?

[Randall]

Just got in the parking lot and slammed the car door.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Or we'll go like this. No, that's that.

[Randall]

Or just go.

[Steve Rinella]

Here, we'll try this.

[Cal]

Make some other.

[Steve Rinella]

That might make him gobble. I don't know. Try owl. Oh, like. No, I can't do that now.

[Phil]

Phil, are we rolling?

[Steve Rinella]

This is so good.

[Corey]

Clearing a loogie might make a shot gobble. Clearing a loogie might make a shot gobble to be.

[Steve Rinella]

There you go. Where are we?

[Chili]

Okay, now your best gobble.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, I can't do a gobble. Oh, hold on. Oh, sorry.

[Chili]

That was great.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. As Robert. I like how Robert Abernathy does. He goes, pow. Boom.

[Chili]

Ready, Cal?

[Steve Rinella]

Doesn't anybody like, hold on, Cal. You're gonna have to do that again.

[Chili]

Was that good? Huh?

[Corey]

Wow.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, you do one, Seth, you just.

[Cal]

Need to extend your.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, man. Wow. Brandon, why do you hate turkeys, man?

[Phil]

I don't hate them. I just.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, hold on. Chris says you hate them.

[Cal]

Yeah. Okay.

[Chili]

I think where the south is doomed again. Please, I'd like to ask everyone to direct their attention to the television. If, if, if you wouldn't mind just for a second here.

[Randall]

Oh, yeah.

[Chili]

There he is.

[Randall]

The real deal.

[Cal]

The face says it all. So Corey filmed. This is from Meat Eater Radio Live a couple months ago, when Connor Smith, who works at our store, who's Alyssa Smith's son as well, brought in his pet turkey, Brogan, and you had a comment about him, you were like, he's got hollow bones. He's nothing like me.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Chili]

For the audio listeners, that was a clip from an old Radio Live episode. When we brought in the turkey and Randall was staring into its eyes like he was. He was looking at the devil himself.

[Phil]

We just don't have anything in common.

[Steve Rinella]

Why. Yeah, why do you feel you won't hunt turkeys, Randall?

[Phil]

Oh, I'd love to hunt turkeys.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, okay. How have you not gotten around to it? Because you're a spring bear hunter?

[Phil]

Yeah, I like to save up my time for spring bear. And. Yeah, I don't know, I just never really figured it out.

[Corey]

You ever see a turkey walking around when you're spring bear hunting?

[Phil]

Yep, and I run after them. I've chased. I've traced a couple turkeys up a hill when they cross the road, but.

[Steve Rinella]

Trying to shoot at them.

[Corey]

The idea is.

[Phil]

That's a general idea.

[Corey]

Supposed to call them.

[Phil]

Yeah, No, I just haven't. Haven't taken that step yet.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay.

[Phil]

Maybe if you got me out there.

[Steve Rinella]

So you'd go. You would go, oh, yeah, I'd love to.

[Phil]

I'd love to have a little turkey hunt. Put a turkey in the freezer. I like eating cow's turkeys.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, it's the best. It's the greatest thing in the world, man.

[Phil]

Yeah, I'm eager to. Eager to feel that joy for myself one day.

[Corey]

But you'll never want to hunt bears again.

[Steve Rinella]

That's what I found. I found that over the years. Over the years, my spring bear enthusiasms declined in favor of turkeys.

[Phil]

I could see that.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, the thing about turkey hunting you can picture too, is you can picture that you'd be hunting turkeys. Like as a old ass man, I was telling my wife, I was like, after we retire, I was like, listen, I'll make a deal with you. We'll spend half the time, half the time doing just what you want to do. Half the time doing just what I want to do. 50, 50 split. And when we're visiting our kids, it won't count against either of our time. And she still won't accept the deal.

[Phil]

How does she want to split it?

[Steve Rinella]

Because she knows that my time is turkey hunting. She's like, no, I'm not taking that deal. I'm like, why in the world will someone not take that deal? What's a better deal than that? Yeah, like a picture that half the time you can do whatever you want to do.

[Phil]

And I won't say I'd take that right now.

[Steve Rinella]

I'd be like, oh, yeah, that sounds fun. That's what I'd say.

[Phil]

Just what do you think?

[Steve Rinella]

Sounds like a great time.

[Phil]

What would you be doing on her, on her days?

[Steve Rinella]

I don't know. Probably a variety of things. Variety of things. She won't take it because I want to have a camper and we're going to live in the camper and we're going to start in March in Florida. And then we're going to. Every year we're going to head north and we'll swing to the northeast. We'll swing west. Swing, whatever. And it'll just be like on repeat every year. We'll go to laundromats and do our.

[Corey]

Clothes, eat turkey every night, eat turkey.

[Steve Rinella]

We'll go to Internet cafes and email our kids. And that's how we're going to spoon bend our.

[Chili]

You'll have the deep fat fryer on a trailer behind. Stink things up, Seth.

[Steve Rinella]

You're headed out turkey hunting?

[Randall]

Yeah, Monday, heading to Florida.

[Steve Rinella]

Tell me more about that.

[Randall]

So we're going to a guys we're hunting some private down there. We're going to a guy that he. He has bought artwork from for my wife Kelsey in the past. And he's been inviting us to go down there and hunt turkeys for like the last few years. And this year we decided to go, you know, take them up on the offer. But kind of in some brainstorming of trying to collect some assets around this new turkey vest first, like decided to film the deal.

[Steve Rinella]

So are you gonna let your wife have her shot?

[Randall]

Yeah, I always do.

[Corey]

Are you hunting south of the Osceola line or is north?

[Randall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

You know what I was wrong about?

[Randall]

It's pretty high.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Is it? It's like I used to somehow have my head and I think I've misled people on this is. I think it was like the north end of Okeechobee south, but it's. It's everything except the Panhandle and those counties that are up against Georgia and Alabama.

[Corey]

Oh, yeah. I thought it was like the southern.

[Steve Rinella]

Half of no, man. It's like you go like one or two counties deep out of the Panhandle is easterns, and then you go like one or two counties down deep out of Georgia and Alabama.

[Phil]

It's all Osceolas south of Gainesville.

[Steve Rinella]

Maybe that might be a good way of putting it. But it's not a perfect line. But yeah, basically, you know, be like once you're down in the peninsula, it's Osceola turkeys at the end of the show. So we're doing the. We're doing Jordan's piece Crin.

[Cal]

Yeah, we are. We're. It's out on this feed Tuesday, March 25th tomorrow.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, but it's not just tacked onto this.

[Cal]

Nope.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, okay. So Jordan Sillers, who joins us now and then on the podcast here and writes for the website. He. He's got a tomorrow, I guess. If you're listening. On the day this comes out tomorrow, Jordan has this crazy story he's been reporting on. It'll be like a special drop podcast episode about a true crime. Yeah. About a murder or not. It's a wild story. A turkey hunter in Virginia. This is a 20 year old cold case turkey hunter in Virginia. Shot in the back at daybreak. Turkey hunting. And you wonder like, well, how many people could have been in the woods that day.

[Corey]

I don't want to give too much away, but was he shot with a shotgun?

[Steve Rinella]

Nope, shot with a rifle.

[Corey]

Oh, okay.

[Steve Rinella]

But you can hunt rifles. You could hunt turkeys with a rifle.

[Corey]

Okay. Gotcha.

[Steve Rinella]

His shot in the back lodged into his heart, wasn't it? Yes, I think the bullet was lodged into his heart, but his face mask was lifted up.

[Cal]

H. Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

So did he lift it up? Did someone lift it up? Did someone walk over and you get into like, well, how many people could have been in the woods that day? How could you not find who was in the woods that day?

[Randall]

Wow.

[Steve Rinella]

Like a small ass pool of people. Do you know what I'm saying? In this little turkey hunting area, they've never made an arrest.

[Cal]

Yeah, it's real, real interesting. Jordan did some great work on it. Lots of interviews.

[Steve Rinella]

It's gotta be. I know you haven't listened to it yet, but it's gotta be. It's gotta be that it was a. He was messing with his decoy. He was sitting there, his decoys were laying. He's sitting there dead on a tree. His decoys are out in front of him, a cigarette on the ground.

[Cal]

But it wasn't the.

[Steve Rinella]

No one collected the cigarette.

[Cal]

And it was.

[Chili]

Why don't you go ahead and give Jordan's podcast a listen.

[Cal]

Exactly.

[Chili]

And let us know what you think. We're easy to get a hold of. Love to hear about it, but I.

[Steve Rinella]

Don'T think that what I'm saying is going to make people not go, listen. I feel like I'm titillating over here.

[Phil]

Yeah, I'm hooked.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Do you think it's like, do. Are you like, well, now I'm not even going to bother listening now.

[Phil]

No, no. I need to find all the. I need to know all the details.

[Chili]

This day and age. It's just like you go, okay, how many cell phones were in this area right now? We're going to start there. That'll be pretty.

[Steve Rinella]

It probably be a great place to start.

[Chili]

Right? Yeah. Call onx. Be like, how many folks were right here?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, there was. We talked about this long ago because we were actually gonna. When we started doing the Close Call series, we tried to track this guy down, but the. We tried to track down a victim of an accidental shooting in a hunting incident. But he had died of cancer, even though he almost died on the mountain one time. Hunting. But this guy was hunting in Arizona for black bears. Do you remember the story? Yeah. He's stalking a black bear with his bow and he's right above the black bear and all of a sudden someone from across the canyon shoots at the black bear with a rifle. Okay. So it's either weapon season, he's stalking it with a bow, and someone across the Canyon shoots at the bear, the shot misses the bear and spooks the bear, and the bear spooks right up through him, right up past him. The guy shoots at it again and hits the dude in the gut.

[Chili]

Jesus.

[Steve Rinella]

Bear runs off. The guy lays there and the shooter never comes over. He gets up to the top of the mountain, makes a call, starts trying to drive down, passes out. But they find him and save him. The bullet had mostly got absorbed like the. Got absorbed by his belt buckle, but lacerated his insides all up. But he lives. So they're trying to find out who did it. And what they start doing is the investigators send out surveys to people that had bear tags in that unit. Where'd you hunt? What days did you hunt? And then did a follow up survey and eventually they had like, oh, this guy was hunting bears that day in this area and he was out of state. And they sent investigators to the guy's house and when they explained him what happened, they. I guess according to the story I heard, they knew he was innocent because when they explained him what happened, he vomited. Like he was that upset about it.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Corey]

The archery hunter was all camoed up and he just never saw him or something.

[Steve Rinella]

Seems. It seems we were going to do a thing about it, but like I said, the primary guy had passed away young, like died young, so. Kids, go listen to Jordan's thing, follow.

[Phil]

Up on your shots and wear orange.

[Chili]

Oh, don't just take pokes at stuff and go, oh, doesn't look like I hit it. Walk over there, look for blood, follow up. If it seems like too much of a pain in the ass, chances are you're shooting too far.

[Steve Rinella]

And if you get over there and there's a dead person laying there, make a call.

[Chili]

Make a call.

[Steve Rinella]

Call 91 1. Yeah, that's what I think. I know. When you guys listen, you'll know what think, Jordan, I questioned this decision. Maybe Corinne, you can shed light on it. He. He redacts a lot of names. Why is he redacting all the names? Did that come at the recommendation of legal counsel?

[Cal]

I'm not sure. I could check with him. I don't know. You mean like other names of people.

[Steve Rinella]

Who are investigated, like the, of the characters kind of surrounding the incident, he redacts their names?

[Cal]

I didn't go into that with him.

[Corey]

Maybe because it's unsolved? I don't know.

[Steve Rinella]

Could be.

[Cal]

Sorry, sorry, I'm not being very helpful.

[Steve Rinella]

No, you're not. What's it called? What will it be called?

[Cal]

Blood trails. Yeah. It's called blood trails.

[Steve Rinella]

Blood trails. So check that out. 20 year old Turkey hunting cold case. Which gal? Seems like it'd be real solvable.

[Cal]

Yeah, and it's just question mark.

[Chili]

Well, I don't want it until our listeners hear it.

[Cal]

Yes. Yep.

[Chili]

Then one of you may know exactly who it is.

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[Steve Rinella]

I'm telling you man, there's nothing quite like it gives me chubby just thinking about it. You hit the call and way off in the distance, a tom fires back. You work him in, watching his body language shift from cautious to committed. Then that moment, the one every turkey hunter dreams about all winter. Zach Gobbler locks eyes on your decoy and comes running in. And if you're using the right decoy, you don't need to then settle for a 40 yard nervous shot. Because with the right decoy, you can get that bird in your lap. Putting on a wild, aggressive turkey show. I mean, I'm talking where he's fighting the decoy. I've had him sitting there trying to mate with the decoy. It's the best thing in the world. But to pull it off, you need realism. Like you need decoys that don't just fool turkeys at a distance. You want a decoy that fools them when he's up there at point blank range beating the snot out of it. That is why Die Hard turkey hunters insist on Dave Smith decoys. Their unmatched realism fools even the wariest of toms into thinking they're staring and Fighting a real bird. And unlike inflatable decoys that crumble when shot, DSDs are built tough. They last season after season, even if you screw up and put a little TSS into one of them. To top it all off, every DSD turkey decoy is made right here in the good old US of A. Made in America. Check out the full [e-mail] and take your turkey hunts to the next level. Check this out. The first time. So this year, I. I put a thing on Instagram where some guys I know, some houndsmen I know who are commercial fishermen in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, but in the wintertime, they. They like to chase bobcats with dogs. And this buddy of mine sends me a video from Mackinac county in Michigan's Upper Peninsula of a lion, a mountain lion in a tree in Michigan. After that, the. The. The DNR Department of Natural Resources, they went out and verified like they wanted. They wanted to see where it was and what happened. And they went out and verified it. Right. That it was legit, Legit location, tracks, everything made sense. And there's a lie in there. And this is something that people have been long been saying that there are lions in the up. Like how people are saying there's lions all over the place. And it. For the longest time, 20 years ago, you had guys way outside of mountain lion territory, way outside of cougar territory would be like, oh, I saw a mountain lion. And it was always the same thing. It was. No, you didn't. You saw an escape pet, right? Like, this idea that there's just, like, escape mountain lion pets running all over the place. You never see, like, actual pet mountain lions, but somehow there are many. Like, you're never, like, at your buddies. He's like, here's my pet mountain line. But somehow there are hundreds of escape pets, even though no one has, like, the actual pet mountain lion. Like, there's a lot of dogs running around the woods. There's a lot of dogs in people's houses. So it all makes sense.

[Phil]

Mountain lions might just be better at escaping.

[Steve Rinella]

You got pet dogs and you got feral dogs, but somehow it's just all feral lines. But there's no pet lines, but they're all escape pets. Long story short, first confirmation in 100 years in the. Up in Michigan, two mountain lion kittens in a hundred years.

[Chili]

Verified.

[Steve Rinella]

Verified.

[Cal]

But they haven't been seen. Yeah, verified. But then what was it?

[Chili]

They haven't yet been hit by a car.

[Cal]

Yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah.

[Corey]

Is that the video of them on little ones on the side of the road.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, dude, it's, it's like, it's unbelievable. So probably like a while ago, one got killed in Connecticut, one showed up in Minnesota. And a lot of times this is lions coming out of. Lions coming out of the Black Hills, coming out of western Nebraska. And if you look at a, if you go get yourself a map, you can see how that sucker h. How they're going. You could picture how they're going because they're showing up in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. So they're going like from the Black Hills across into Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin and then traveling. And this one that I had the video of was in the eastern U.P. so traveling across the top of the U.P. probably like flirting up with Ontario, whatever, going across. And it would always be. The story is like juvenile males will strike out and colonize new territory or they'll want their own territory. And so they'll go. And presumably they go off in these weird ass places and never find a mate. And then they kind of have like, they're like a genetic dead end, right? So when you find these way out there lions that are way out of territory, there's this thing that like, oh, it's probably an escape pet. And then if it's not that like, oh, it's some crazy juvenile male that wandered way outside of its range. But obviously a female went. And then you got to think, and that low density, how, like, how phenomenal must they be at finding each other?

[Corey]

Maybe that like, I mean, that female might have been impregnated in Michigan. It's like she didn't necessarily, like, no, I'm desperate. You know what?

[Steve Rinella]

I'm sure, I would imagine.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

But then like regardless of how low density, how like how do they find each other?

[Chili]

Well, I, Yeah, man. I mean it's like you can get dropped off in the biggest wilderness ever, right? And be like, oh, here's a good way to go find game. And you strike out on that trail and you can find a boot track of somebody else who did the same thing, right? Because you're like, it's just like how predators move.

[Steve Rinella]

You get around the ridge, like, yeah.

[Phil]

Cigarette butt and a couple 30 odd six.

[Chili]

How did anybody else think of this?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, right where I was. Right where I was gonna walk. Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible to think about. But now they're there. I bet you there's a lot of guys that are pissed. There's a lot of guys that are pissed because you already have extreme low.

[Chili]

Deer densities yeah, lower deer densities.

[Steve Rinella]

Got a lot of wolf problems.

[Corey]

How would they, like, how would they be classified? Like if they, if a breeding population like gets going in Michigan, how are they going to classify?

[Steve Rinella]

That's a great question. I don't know what the economy is.

[Chili]

Yeah, just be a non, non game species right now. But I'm sure they'd try to put some sort of protection, protection on them or, or not. Right. Or they make the decision that this is just not something we're going to deal with.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, because man, I don't think you look up someone try to find it. I'm guessing you can't just shoot a lion in Michigan right now.

[Chili]

I probably under the self defense and defensive property rule, you could.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, if it was messing you up.

[Chili]

Or messing up your killing, killing your chickens.

[Steve Rinella]

But I mean like if you were out running bobcats and you treat a lion, my guess is you can't shoot it because how are you looking up what the season is? Well, if it's not listed as anything, does that mean.

[Chili]

Yeah, well, we'll find out because if. Right, because like state of Wyoming, like they have a, they have game species and then they have varmints that can be shot year round without restriction.

[Corey]

They're classified as an endangered species. You shooting them, that's probably like a state endangered species. Not natural.

[Cal]

Endangered mammals in Michigan, meaning it's illegal to hunt or harass them, which includes trying to locate their dental.

[Steve Rinella]

My old man always had a good story, you know what a fallow deer is? So my dad had a spot, he was hunting. This was in Illinois. He had a spot, he was hunting and there was a big arboretum near there and they had all these like fallow deer sort of as a decoration menagerie on this arboretum.

[Cal]

Wait, aren't those from overseas?

[Steve Rinella]

They're Eurasian deer.

[Cal]

Oh yeah. Okay.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, like kind of white. And some of this, some of the fallow deer had gotten off the arboretum and were just running around. And so my dad was calling be like, can I shoot one of these deer or not? And at the time, like they had, Illinois had like a wild deer, they had a deer. So even in your, in your rags it didn't say like white tailed deer. Because like you're not, what are you not trying to draw this? It was just a deer. And so he called and the best answer they would give him is like, it says a deer if it's a deer. So he always had this picture of. He has he, as I should find, he had this great grip and grin where he's got his recurve and he's got a fallow deer. You know what he used to hunt, man, it was funny is. And it's a good idea. He used to have a spot he'd hunt where he'd get on a highway, and at some point he'd pulled off at a rest area and got to walking around the rest area and saw a bunch of deer signs. It was like he showed me. I. It was not too far from where I grew up. There's a rest area, and it's all just like state land area on the highway. And then there was cornfields up above there. And he would get off at the rest area and park kind of like he was at the rest area, Wait till the coast was clear and slip up in the woods and sit tree, stand at the rest area and then get back on highway and like, go down to the next exit and sneaky little spot.

[Randall]

Sneaky little spot.

[Steve Rinella]

I see a lot of rest areas and I wonder about that. Okay, Seth, you're going hunting. We talk about that. Yeah, Randall hates turkeys. Talk about that. Tick prevention. I got it. My program is dialed.

[Chili]

What is it?

[Steve Rinella]

Who wrote that down? Who wrote down.

[Chili]

Did I threw that in there?

[Steve Rinella]

What do you do? Do you. Do you feel your program is dialed?

[Chili]

No, not at all. It's something I don't think about until I'm on the ground. And then I'm like, oh, man, this is. I'm gonna be creeping and crawling. But I'm all. So I don't. Yeah, I don't know. All the normal things. Don't, like, deep. I'm always like, oh, I'm gonna get that permethrin stuff.

[Corey]

And that stuff works.

[Steve Rinella]

I take the heavy chemical approach. And I'll tell you. I'll tell you a little bit about my background.

[Cal]

Just don't inhale that when you breathe it all. I mean, when you spray it all over your.

[Steve Rinella]

Let me tell you, though, I had. Okay. When my boy was three. Talk about this all the time. When my boy was three, he had Lyme disease, developed Bell's palsy. So he developed the facial paralysis, had a lot of problems. I had Lyme disease and had to go through the intravenous antibiotic treatment where they put the picc line in your heart and hose coming out of your arm, shooting those cylinders. All that in there every day. Had it be where. Couldn't ride my bike. Had drawn a mountain goat tag and couldn't even hunt the tag. I couldn't go down steps without holding the handrail, driving down the road. It messes with your joints so bad. I couldn't rest on the window sill. I couldn't rest on the center console because it was like, just too, like, excruciating. Okay, so all that. What I'm setting up there is like the. The risk of using some chemical stuff isn't as real to me as is the risk of getting tick borne pathogens.

[Cal]

That's understandable.

[Chili]

It's. It's not, oddly enough. It's the way I take care of things. And like a big old deet filled canister that erodes through everything once deployed. Yeah, like, that's my problem is like it rattles around in the back of the truck. Eventually, like the cap goes off and it sprays all over everything. And then you got holes in clothing or a whole spool of fishing lines.

[Phil]

I've had tackle boxes over the years.

[Chili]

That have turned into melted plastic.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, I had it warped. Yeah, I had one open up on a caribou hunt and I had one open up on my phone and actually warped my phone case. Like, the phone case warped.

[Corey]

So you're not buying the permethrin?

[Steve Rinella]

No, I haven't gotten to my formula yet.

[Corey]

Oh, you're going double formula.

[Steve Rinella]

I do, and it takes. It takes. It takes discipline.

[Chili]

You do deep woods off.

[Steve Rinella]

I do permethrin on my clothes, and I do it like you're supposed to do it. I do it ahead of time. Like you always, you know, you. Like I said, it takes discipline. Do it ahead of time and let it dry. Okay. So I'm not wearing the wet. And that's how they recommend it. So I do all my clothes and permethrin. Then every morning. This is the painful part. This is the part you don't want to do because it's just. It's annoying. Every morning, I do my ankles and deep. I do my waistline because of chiggers. I hate chiggers. I do my waistline and deep on.

[Corey]

On your skin.

[Steve Rinella]

On my skin. Whoa.

[Chili]

All right.

[Steve Rinella]

I do deet. I plaster my waistline. I plaster my ankles in deet. And I got permethrin on my clothes. And I'm telling you. And I am a tick chigger magnet. I have shut that down.

[Chili]

Wow.

[Steve Rinella]

Shut it down.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Hot tip.

[Steve Rinella]

Me and Seth did a bunch of permethrin one time. We were watching ticks climb on us.

[Chili]

We did a bunch of.

[Steve Rinella]

Remember that, Seth?

[Corey]

It was a while at that time music festival when. When Seth and I were in Pennsylvania last Fall woodcock hunting. Like, our buddy's dog had hundreds of deer ticks on it, like, every day. And we were using. I was using permethrin.

[Steve Rinella]

It works.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Randall]

Yeah, that's. That's an area where when they do tick studies, they typically come back 100 positive.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, yeah. When I got it, I got it in Hudson Valley, and I think at the time, they're saying that three quarters of all ticks had the pathogen they found.

[Corey]

I just read they found tick in Montana that they believe had Lyme disease.

[Steve Rinella]

Really?

[Phil]

Don't say that.

[Steve Rinella]

What kind of tick had to been the. Had to be a deer tick.

[Corey]

I. I'll have to find it.

[Chili]

Stuff they give dogs. That always creeps me out. Dogs seem to be totally fine, but the tick.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Chili]

Goes up, bites into the dog, and then dies and drops off the dog.

[Steve Rinella]

Took me and Seth close.

[Chili]

I'm like, yeah, yeah. What's the human version of that?

[Phil]

Yeah, I've thought about that. I mean, if someone could invent that for mosquitoes.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Rich man.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Chili, how you doing? You're just sitting down there?

[Phil]

Yeah, I'm just.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Chili]

People are talking.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay.

[Randall]

Are you gonna turkey hunt this year, Chili?

[Chili]

I plan on it. Yeah. I want to go back home, back to the hills and try to get a tagger.

[Steve Rinella]

My.

[Chili]

I think my brother applied it, so if he gets one, I'll probably go back with him.

[Randall]

Nice.

[Steve Rinella]

That's where I'd like to go.

[Chili]

What. What's your program? Not. Not for ticks, but just for those flowing locks you're developing. Is. Is it like a standalone shampoo?

[Steve Rinella]

Main entail?

[Chili]

Baby horse shampoo? Really? Just mane and tail? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't even need water with that.

[Randall]

No, you don't.

[Chili]

Yeah. No, you just throw it on there. Murder outside, let it dry.

[Steve Rinella]

He's the only guy. If I. If you had to get a permit to have long hair, he's the only guy to issue the permit, too.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

I think I told a few people this story.

[Chili]

I cut my hair, I think, once since working here, and I cut it, like, I trimmed up the mustache, cut.

[Phil]

The hair real short.

[Steve Rinella]

Beautiful.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Chili]

Probably long as Randall's. And I went to the store, and Steve was sitting on the couch in the store, and he's working on his laptop, and he just slowly turns to me, looks at me, and goes, it's.

[Randall]

A bad move, dude.

[Chili]

I was like, okay, I guess I'm never cutting my hair again.

[Steve Rinella]

Chili needs to look free. So that's the tick. Oh, you know, I was gonna Bring down tics. When we were watching. I don't know if you remember this, Seth. Me and Seth are sitting, watching ticks crawl on our clothes and fall off. Like they'd pass out.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

And then we're sitting there. Here comes the javelina. Do you remember this? Here comes a javelina walking along. Guess what the javelin is feeding on. I'm not kidding you, man. He is feeding on turkey.

[Randall]

Just one, one after the other, just.

[Steve Rinella]

We'Re just sitting there real. So he just comes along and every time he'd find one of the little turkey, he'd stop and pick it up and he was like targeting.

[Randall]

Turkey is smacking his cheeks together. I have a video of it.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Smacking his lips, eating turkey.

[Cal]

That's, that's in, that was in Texas.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Cal]

You guys are going back?

[Randall]

We are.

[Cal]

Week or week after, Right.

[Steve Rinella]

Cool. Okay. Who knows about the South Carolina turkey deal? What is this now?

[Chili]

I, I talked with some folks on this one last week. Actual, you know, biologists in, in that state.

[Steve Rinella]

No, man, I'm looking now. I didn't know about this. Well, so, but here's the hit.

[Chili]

Here's the weird thing. Okay? So this would change the regulations or it already has changed the regulations for the 2025 season to where it would no longer be legal to shoot Jake's immature toms.

[Steve Rinella]

It's gonna cut back on my turkey harvest.

[Chili]

So that puts the onus on the hunter to identify a tom that has a beard longer than 6 inches and a full tail fan.

[Corey]

So it's the combination, Right. Because a lot of full on gobblers don't have a six inch beard, right?

[Chili]

Yeah. And so you're like, well why would you take that opportunity away from people? Which was my question. But and this is the frustrating part is it's like because your brain kind of goes to like, well is it like a trophy thing? Like trying to make bigger birds, which makes no sense in the bird world?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, well, they ban killing longbeards.

[Chili]

It is the time of year they're not changing the season of their turkey hunt. What they're trying to do by adding this regulation is to provide more time for those birds to breed. Who to breed for the for by making people select for the toms and pass up these other bird, they're allowing more time for breeding. Which to which I responded was like, well why don't you just adjust the whole season dates?

[Steve Rinella]

Well, I remember Abernathy talking about this, who lives in South Carolina, him talking about that, this, this push pull between start and turkey Season so early. Right. And guys thinking that they're starting it too early. And the. The. There's a lot of these. A lot of turkey biologists are like, dude, hunt turkeys as long as you want. Don't start early.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Corey]

And some states, like, if you steal.

[Steve Rinella]

A day, steal a day up front, give them two days on the other end.

[Chili]

Right.

[Corey]

Plenty of states are doing that.

[Chili]

Well, Idaho, Montana, the folks I've talked to, they're like, there's no. Essentially no breeding going on. By the time turkey season has started in Idaho or Montana, like, it's. The bulk of the bell curve of the breeding is completely done.

[Steve Rinella]

What? Yeah, there's still snow on the ground. April 15th.

[Chili]

They're saying that the hens have been bred.

[Steve Rinella]

What? Really?

[Corey]

I'm not buying that.

[Chili]

Yeah, don't question.

[Steve Rinella]

This.

[Chili]

Do it, man.

[Steve Rinella]

So they're. They're banning killing Jake's.

[Chili]

Yes.

[Steve Rinella]

Wow.

[Chili]

Yeah. Which, like, it's like not being able to kill a spike elk. Like, sometimes that Jake saves the day here.

[Steve Rinella]

Like, I understand you're trying to preserve quality of hunt. So, like, it doesn't make any sense that you'd say, okay, I got an idea. No one can kill a long beard. People revolt.

[Chili]

You're right.

[Steve Rinella]

But I wonder if the objective, like, if your true objective was to preserve, like, age class breeding turkeys, if that was the true sole objective, it would probably make you probably end up saying, no, Shoot all the jakes you want. Don't shoot long beards.

[Corey]

There's a lot more, Jerry.

[Steve Rinella]

But people freak out. I would freak out.

[Chili]

As we know here in Montana, if you go out opening week and you're like, God, there's a lot of jakes around. Go back to the same spot last week of the season, you're like, oh, my God, there's so many toms around. Magically, there's so many toms where there used to be so many jigs.

[Corey]

Looks like they also outlawed fanning and reaping on pr. On private.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Randall]

Wow.

[Steve Rinella]

Yep. Scotty, you can't fan and reap. No, you can't fan in Michigan or Scotty anymore after a few years ago.

[Chili]

No idea.

[Corey]

It's illegal in Pennsylvania.

[Randall]

You can't do it in Pennsylvania.

[Steve Rinella]

So for you folks at home, what we're talking about is there was a. There is a strategy. It is a deadly. At times, a deadly turkey hunting strategy is picture. Picture yourself, you driving down the road, and you come through old man Morgenson's pasture. Pasture. And lo and behold, 10am on a Monday morning, there's just a giant gobbler out there with a couple hens, and he's just strutting his ass off out in the middle. Out in the middle. You never gonna call him in. He's. You're never gonna, like, call him over to the edge. If you crawl out there, he's gonna run away. Well, what do you do? Well, you get a big old turkey fan and you lay down on your belly and you army crawl, holding that turkey fan up. And there's a high likelihood, if you play your cards right, you will just crawl right up to that turkey.

[Corey]

Or he'll come running straight out, he'll.

[Steve Rinella]

Come running to you, and then you just stick your shotgun, which I have done. You actually snake your barrel through the feathers and kind of rest it. Rest it on the fan. It is deadly effective. Guys are even taking it to the point America's. These dudes that get. Are all over on social media and everybody always has a conniption. But they make a hat, a turkey fan hat.

[Chili]

Whoa.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

And so it's like a little army helmet, and they crawl around with a turkey fan hat. Now, people will look at this and bring up the very obvious point. What if someone shoots that thing?

[Chili]

And if you haven't brought up this point, listen to Jordan Siller's new podcast about guy getting shot in the turkey woods.

[Randall]

Not only deadly for the turkey.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. And then you get, like in Wyoming, you can hunt turkeys with a rifle. Can you still hunt him with a rifle in Florida? I remember they tried to get rid.

[Chili]

Of it for a while.

[Steve Rinella]

It could be, you know, was it Abernathy to get. We've had a couple guys on that got shot hunting turkeys. I think Abernathy.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Abernathy got shot hunting turkeys.

[Randall]

I know guys that In Pennsylvania got shot.

[Steve Rinella]

Abernathy, he lifted his foot up to rest it on a stump and a guy shot his leg. I think it was Abernathy. And then he's. The guy said, in interviewing his shooter, he said, man, when you put your leg up on that stump, look just like Tom going into strut.

[Cal]

Guy's got some vision problems.

[Randall]

I wonder if there's been any sort of studies done on like. Or trying to figure out what it is. It, like, triggers something in their brain that, like, takes over a turkey's body and mind sees that when he sees.

[Chili]

Just the competition, man. I mean, that's all. That's what it's got to be.

[Steve Rinella]

Plus, well, when the Flores too, man, they are.

[Chili]

I don't think they're ever like, more exposed than when they're in strut. Right. So they, you know, they completely blind themselves from having almost 360 degree vision.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Chili]

Right.

[Steve Rinella]

So great chance to lift your gun up so that when he turns. Because he can't see you.

[Chili]

Yeah. But outside of that. So it's basically signaling to all other birds. Not only is it a. Okay. But there's like some hot hen action over here too.

[Corey]

And I think you might be in a fight mode.

[Chili]

I think that's the combination of things. Right. It's like, it's a signal that it's totally safe, no predators around, and something really good. Good's happening. And that's like the. The combination they just can't resist. Yeah.

[Phil]

I was. I was deer hunting in Idaho one time, and it was a limited.

[Steve Rinella]

Damn sure weren't turkey hunting.

[Chili]

No, that's true.

[Phil]

That's true. But it was a limited, limited bull elk unit. And we actually met a tag holder earlier that day. They were hunting down the ridge from us, and we found a big bull. And we went and told him, you know, there's this bull over here. And we. We sort of got set up to watch the bull. And they popped out one of those, like, cow elk foldable decoys. Walked straight to the thing. It was like on a big open hillside. We were on a big open hillside, and there's a little ridge between us. They walked straight towards that bowl until they could get out of sight. And then put the cow decoy down and shot the bull. And I was. I've never been more nervous in my.

[Steve Rinella]

Life that someone's going to fill a cow tag on him.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And I don't think there were any cow tags. Like, I kind of asked them about. I was like, you know, are you sure there's not cow tags here? And are you sure that someone's not going to mistake a branch behind you or anything for. For an antler? Like, I just don't trust other people out there. But I've always been curious about it because it worked real well.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Phil]

But like, yeah, it was kind of put the ice in my veins a little bit.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Reaping is one of those things I would never send my kid out to do.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Because it'd be like, you know, because just picture the news article.

[Chili]

Yeah. It's just additional risk.

[Phil]

Risk versus reward.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. And you'd be like, man, people would be mad at you. He did what? So you already couldn't in South Carolina in public. Now you can't on private. I think this is going to be my prediction. When I crystal ball this, I get. This is going to be more and more and more and more common.

[Randall]

Yeah, I agree.

[Steve Rinella]

In the meantime, I would advise, I don't want to blame the victim here. In the meantime, I would advise people, as we head out into the turkey woods this spring, just don't shoot at random. Tail fans or random movement. Yeah.

[Phil]

Kind of one of the first rules of gun safety.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Think about it a minute before shooting at fans because it might be a, it might be a reaper maybe.

[Randall]

Think about, think about it before you reap too. Yeah, it's not, it's just not.

[Corey]

Especially in the public.

[Randall]

It's just not that smart.

[Steve Rinella]

They give a definition. Fanny or reaping is the practice of stalking a wild turkey while hiding behind a decoy or tail fan or an image or likeness of a tail fan applied to any material I would carry. I kind of quit. I didn't really carry it last year. I used to carry in my turkey vest. I carried a fan. And if you cut a fan right, there's a way to cut it off the turkey where you can fold it out like a pack of cards and it'll fold up real nice. I would lay it out and I had a little handle even. I had like a formal little handle and I had a way you could open it up and I had two wing nuts on a handle. So when you put the, when you put the bolts, you put the, these two little bolts through the fan. It would hold the fan open, throw a couple wing nuts on there. And it was meant to be my crawler arounder. Never got shot.

[Phil]

But you've stopped carrying it.

[Steve Rinella]

I did. I did, yeah. Not wanting to get shot. And then also I feel like some of the places I hunt, you can't do it. You can still do it in Montana though.

[Chili]

Yeah.

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[Steve Rinella]

Texas. Here's a Texas turkey hunting rule. This isn't terribly earth shattering. Hunters must report harvests within 24 hours for all wild turkeys in all counties. What did it used to be?

[Cal]

I don't think you had a report. I just found that this morning.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, no, you had a report. Sorry, I think you had to report.

[Cal]

Maybe they shortened the time. When I went to the, the state website, I didn't, I didn't see what it was before.

[Phil]

Are they collecting data with that or.

[Steve Rinella]

They just want to know if you shot one?

[Chili]

Yeah, I think it's absolutely way to see how many birds got swatted that year. Yeah. Yeah. I don't ever recall.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Chili]

What it was. Submitting a report for killing a turkey in Texas.

[Steve Rinella]

Here's a, here's a Florida rule coming up. Or Florida. This, this is a. Your Cal. Talk about this Florida deal.

[Chili]

What's the Florida deal?

[Corey]

The no nrs the first three days of the season.

[Chili]

Oh, no non residents for turkey.

[Steve Rinella]

Three days.

[Chili]

So this is a good example of states watching other states do stuff. And I think South Dakota was the first one to be like, the opening week of pheasant is for resident only unless you have private property access. I think.

[Phil]

I believe so.

[Chili]

Yeah. So all the public stuff is off limits to non residents. And I know Montana actually has a bill where they're considering a version of that as well. North Dakota just went that way, I think. And that's for upland bird species. But here's a version of it. First one that I'm aware of in the turkey hunting world. But yeah, give all the residents first crack at those toms that really like to come out and strut and rub it in your face.

[Corey]

I, I don't, I don't, I don't know that's anything to get up in arms about.

[Steve Rinella]

I can't. I mean, I don't. As a non, as a Florida non resident, I don't like it.

[Chili]

Right.

[Steve Rinella]

But I have to be honest about why I don't like it. Because it's inconvenient to me. Yeah, I mean, it's potentially inconvenient to me, but that's not how you can make. You can't use that as the way to make rules.

[Corey]

It's three days of a five week season. Like, I think it's okay to give residents a little, little bone there.

[Steve Rinella]

A guy that sent a guy sent me this article and he's like, is it the end of turkey hunting in Florida? You know, it's a bummer. I mean, if you're a non resident, it's a bummer. But I mean, like, dude, if I was gonna make a list of every advantage residents have over non residents, I couldn't find a piece of paper long enough.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

You have to write it out on toilet paper.

[Chili]

Yeah. I mean, it does not get me all up in a tissy. But.

[Steve Rinella]

But I. Man, if I was. If I was a resident, I'd be licking my lips.

[Phil]

Dude.

[Steve Rinella]

If, like, listen, if they came in. In this state and said, hey, you know, from now on, first three days the elk season are residents only. First three days of deer season, residents only. Anything, anything, I'd be like, sweet. Because with a lot of stuff, with a lot of hunting rules, it winds up being that, you know, I try, like, I don't know if I don't make sense. I've always thought there's certain. There's some things that are like, moral, you know, and there's some things that don't have a moral component. They just have a. It's just like a strategic component. Like, you can't get morally upset about it. I don't view this as a moral thing. This is just like a luck or not. It's like lucky or not lucky. It's. It's unlucky for non residents, I think.

[Corey]

Doesn't Florida cap non resident turkey tax at like 10%?

[Chili]

I have no idea.

[Corey]

I think they might.

[Chili]

Is it like the way Montana caps?

[Corey]

Well, hard to say.

[Phil]

With the caps and quotation marks.

[Chili]

Caps and quotations. Yeah. I have no idea.

[Steve Rinella]

What do you mean by the caps in quotation?

[Chili]

Well, there's this idea that the math is as simple as it sounds of like, well, yeah, there can only be 10% of all tags going to non residents per region. But it's. It's per opportunity.

[Steve Rinella]

What. What's that mean?

[Chili]

It means that for every opportunity in that reg book does cows, bulls, bucks, there's 10% of every opportunity available to non residents. And then if there's leftover opportunities, they can. They're open to whoever wants those leftover opportunities.

[Steve Rinella]

It's.

[Phil]

And there's ways. There are certain categories of tags available to non residents that don't count against that 10%. Like if you have like the Come Home to hunt program.

[Steve Rinella]

That doesn't count.

[Phil]

Yeah. Or the. Like the Montana. I think they call it Montana native. So if you're born in Montana but live out of state, that doesn't count. I think like the college students that are here, like, they've created all these carve outs that don't count against that 10% number.

[Chili]

Yeah. I'm not sure what happens if you are specific.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Chili]

If you're specifically going with an outfitter. I'm not sure. Where that lands either.

[Phil]

But yeah, it's, it's, it's not a hard cap.

[Chili]

Yeah. Yeah. And then like a state like Idaho who's like, same kind of rules, Right. There's like a whole landowner pool and a whole outfitter pool. And the math doesn't ever really work in the way that we think it does. Kind of like the national debt.

[Steve Rinella]

There is. Cal, we're going to talk, you get, we're going to have you talk about another one in a minute. We're jumping around state to state. Do we, do we want to talk about the California thing or is it too complicated?

[Corey]

We should find out what happens.

[Chili]

We're pretty easy. So marine protected areas, of which many exist in the state of California with various states of, of protections within an MPA marine protect protected area, going from you can still do fishing and recreation to you can't have a boat in there type of spectrum, Right?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Chili]

And no take of wildlife.

[Steve Rinella]

And do they move around, Right. Like they open one, close it, open one.

[Chili]

Well, that, that's an idea. That's, that started at the beginning of the MPA idea. Now we're in the decadal review period of time and that's where like the crazy politics come in. Because it started as this, like, oh, this is going to get done really quick and there's only a couple of people on the Marine Fisheries Commission that are going to take care of the whole thing. And people, once they started to learn what was at stake and all the proposals to expand MPAs and have like the most serious restrictions, like no boating, no fishing, then they were like, oh, no, no, this is a big deal. So now the amount of people paying attention is a lot larger. So it's like the full Marine Fisheries Commission versus just, just two members of the commission. And yeah, it's, it's a huge access, just flat out access to the ocean issue and it's a huge access to, to fishing and food issue too. And it, yeah, runs the gamut of like, you know, are we protecting the visual, like the property values of very wealthy homeowners? Are we doing so at the degradation of marginalized communities ability to go fish? Are we. There's all sorts of things that this gets into, but where we're at right now is you can still comment on MPAs. There's a lot of petitions out there and it is not going to get solved anytime real soon. But you need to be aware that a lot of access and phishing opportunity, sometimes even like surfing opportunity is at stake right now in the state of California. I went and dove a walk in spot last year out of Big Sur and it was freaking gorgeous and fairly. I, I mean I'm sure some people would think it, it's fairly dangerous. Like it's right next to like a juvenile white shark area and really cool spot. But that spot that nobody was down there using except for us is, would be a place that would be closed to expand a marine protected area.

[Steve Rinella]

Really.

[Corey]

So basically all you could do is walk up and down the beach and.

[Chili]

Nothing else with like the most extreme level of, of mpa, like public access beaches. Right? Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

I think they should ban everything but fishing.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Chili]

And, and that's the thing is they, there's all sorts of arguments here of like, well, we want to protect areas for kelp because the kelp forests have been in such crazy decline. But there's no evidence to suggest that MPAs have helped kelp at all. The, the fishing argument, you know, it's fishing regulations, not necessarily MPAs that are gonna have a factor in, in the health of your fishery. So it's, it's really interesting. But it is like your, your public opportunity that's at stake there. So you need, need to get engaged. And like California BHA has been really good on this as well as what is map bonds, all waters.org those, those folks have been really good on this and they're putting out great information and they're getting people to all of these meetings. So connect, connect with one of those groups and, and learn more and see where you fit in.

[Corey]

Who are the people that are pushing for it?

[Steve Rinella]

I'm going to hit you with a bunch of quotes. Ready? This is all quotes from the meeting, one of the meetings about this Laguna beach expansion. Someone says the current MPA in Laguna is a 10 mile fishing closure. Wow. 10 mile fishing closure. So they already got a 10 mile closure. This guy is saying at the meeting. He says the current MPA in Laguna is a 10 mile fishing closure, significantly impacting our fishing area. Not just for us, but for all local fishing boats as well as lobster fishermen. While we have all supported the existing MPA in Laguna beach and have adapted to that closure over time, we remain opposed to any further expansion. And really we were very shocked to even see this proposal at all. Someone in favor of it says this extant extension is a crucial step towards strengthening marine protection, preserving biodiversity and ensuring the long term health of our coastal ecosystems. A guy, another guy had this to say. We just want to make it simple for people that this is a no fishing zone. There's plenty of other places to fish. That's a guy at the meeting. Another guy at the meeting. We'd like to have one little section of coastline where we can still enjoy ourselves, go fish and catch stuff and dive and have a good time.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Because the proposed extension would make Laguna Beach's southern coast completely off limits to fishing.

[Steve Rinella]

Another guy at the meeting. Don't take another healthy thing away from us and don't take food out of people's mouths.

[Chili]

And, and damn it. So like that quote of like, oh, there's plenty other places to fish. Right. Like that's a great example of. It's like, well, are those places available to who? Just folks with a big fancy boat. And it's this coastal access component that people are really, you know, because there's so many people go out and fish on the piers. But that type of fishing is not necessarily for everybody. Right. And yeah, so lots of, lots of arguments here. And they've made a lot of good, like grassroots steps into making sure a lot of these other communities with a vested interest in, in fishing and, and public access are actually getting a seat at the, at the table, which is great.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, can we return for a minute to this, this, this turkey thing?

[Chili]

The South Carolina one.

[Steve Rinella]

Sorry, the Florida deal.

[Chili]

Oh yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Proposed draft rule language. Okay. So the point of this was that you can let your voice be heard and you could, you could. Here's an email address [e-mail] but would you, this is just a question. Would you feel funny as a dude from another state writing the wildlife commissioners in Florida giving your two cents. Anybody can take the survey.

[Chili]

There you go.

[Steve Rinella]

So here's a, Someone drafted some, a note here. So a guy that wrote us into us drafted away. Here's some things you could say in voicing your concerns. You can talk about. Wild turkey populations in Florida are not in jeopardy. Okay. There's no, there's no concern for the resource hunter. Satisfaction was reported as good OR Excellent by 63% of surveyed participants in 2023. Non residents funded over half of all turkey related license costs, but they're only 22% of participating hunters. Okay, so half of the funding for licenses came from 22% of the hunters. And residents are already gobbling up 90% of special turkey hunt opportunities.

[Phil]

Gobbling up.

[Steve Rinella]

That was good. Did I just make that up? I did make that up. No, I didn't mean to.

[Phil]

Something's in the air.

[Steve Rinella]

Spring thunder.

[Chili]

Norovirus.

[Steve Rinella]

I don't think I have that right now. So. Yeah, you can still let your voice be heard. But I would feel very funny writing it, being like as. Because you're kind of like. You kind of like all your cards around the table. You're like, hey, you know, as a non president, here's what I think. Like, how many dudes from out of state are writing in to say, I think this sounds like a fantastic idea?

[Phil]

I think the first three days should be for non residents.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, I got a. I got a counter proposal. How about I just get to hunt for three days? Yeah. Cal, what's Habitat Montana? What's up with that? This is. We're doing. We're. This is nothing to do with turkeys.

[Chili]

Hey, yeah. So basically Habitat Montana, it's a big fund.

[Steve Rinella]

Can I interrupt you real quick?

[Chili]

Yes, sir.

[Steve Rinella]

Gordy, why'd you dump all the weeds out?

[Corey]

I didn't dump that.

[Cal]

Can you pass it over? Spell out, I would love to have some more here.

[Corey]

Serve it up on that, Stevie.

[Chili]

You rub your hands all over that stuff.

[Steve Rinella]

And then, I mean, I'm not contagious, man.

[Cal]

So we're just passing it back.

[Steve Rinella]

I was contagious.

[Corey]

Good on that salmon as a little seasoning there, Corinne.

[Cal]

Oh, thanks for gave me the scraps from the table.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. Sorry. Habitat Montana.

[Chili]

Yeah. Darn it. Where's the other thing here? Anyway, Habitat Montana is a habitat fund, right? It's set aside specifically to address our, like state parks maintenance funding for habitat work that can address like non game species specifically. So it's, it's nice to have that because then, you know, your hunter angler dollars, you're like, oh, yeah, that's just going to go more towards game species and access easements as well. Right. So like getting habitat easements on working timberlands or agriculture ground so doesn't get developed and gobbled up and turned into something non wildlife producing. This is something in 2020 I think we voted on. It's really the reason that there's like recreational marijuana sales in Montana because they tied this. The taxes associated with the sale of recreational marijuana to this big outdoor habitat recreation fund called Habitat Montana got. Got whittled away at a little bit because obviously people were like, oh my gosh, that's a lot of weed money out there we could use for all sorts of things. So the last legislative session, some, some cash got carved out of it. And now we have House Bill 307. That's. That's happening right now. It's in play right now in the state of Montana just looking to shit.

[Steve Rinella]

Can the whole thing.

[Chili]

It would basically Suck Philly. You know, what's that great movie that we used to laugh about? The. The I take a straw. There you go. Yeah, exactly.

[Steve Rinella]

Have you seen I drink your milk?

[Chili]

I'm a weed man?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, there's like a spoof on it called There will be bud. Yeah, they do the whole trailer on a campus and it's all like a guy trying to gobble up the weed market on a campus. He's like, I clear your bong rip.

[Chili]

Which is very appropriate because we're dealing with weed money here. Right. So anyway, voters of Montana came, came together, said this is what we want. Got whittled away last session and now in this session it's going. If HB 307 were to pass, it would remove this funding.

[Steve Rinella]

To what end? To use it for something different.

[Chili]

To use it for something different. Which doesn't really even. We don't even need to talk about because the state's operating at a surplus right now. So there's lots of money that could be used. This is money that's earmarked for habitat. And then when you put it in the context of what's happening with the federal government right now, if the funding freezes and the fact that there is a huge question mark around federal funding that is typically available for habitat work like this state fund is very important.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Chili]

We're seeing a huge increase in the population here in Montana and a huge increase of the overall population that is using state lands. So we. And weed, apparently. Yeah. So we need it.

[Steve Rinella]

I was trying to explain a little bit this the other day to someone. We're having a conversation about state funding mechanisms and I'm like, with the feds kind of setting the clock back to 1895 in terms of attitude towards natural resources, this shit's going to become even more important.

[Chili]

More important. And we're just seeing increased use too.

[Randall]

So.

[Chili]

Yeah, it's. It's a bummer that some folks think that this is a good idea right now. Recent Polling data says 71 of Montana households use public lands and trails. And this is our only like state funding mechanism set aside to address this stuff. And it's been like wildly successful the way it's been used so far. We completely eliminated the state parks maintenance backlog out of this fund. So instead of like you're hunting and angling dollars going to things that probably folks in this room don't use quite as much as. As the retirees out there, we kind of like the fact that our hunting and angling dollars are addressing the things that we want, not some of the things that are being addressed in this Habitat for Montana Fund.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, it'd be helpful to a citizen such as myself is whenever you see a proposal, like, we're always covering, like, proposals, let you know there should be a way that, you know, like, there should be a. A graphic that goes with proposals. And it'd be like the fire risk because, you know, like. Like the other day, some gal from Florida introduces legislation to put, like, Trump on. On Mount Rushmore. Okay.

[Chili]

Okay.

[Steve Rinella]

So what it would be is that graphic would be there, and the graphic would be, like, at all the way to the left. Meaning this will never happen. Do you. I mean, like, it's like. Yeah, it's someone just doing a thing to like. Well, in that case, it's just like. It's just someone being like a sycophant. Right. They're like. They're like doing a gesture, like, hey, look. Look at me. Look how loyal I am. You know, it's not serious. Like, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, it's not serious.

[Chili]

It's like a lot of PETA's work.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Like, PETA stuff like, oh, yeah, here's a billboard. Here's a bill to ban people from being able to say, you got your. Your cart before the horse or whatever. You know, like.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

To ban any kind of animal expression. So if you could just be at home and see a bill and it would just tell you. Or there's an app that you could scan. You could, like, take a photo of legal language, and the app would be like, this is like a not thing. This is a non thing. It's someone. It's a gesture. It's someone trying to make headlines.

[Chili]

Yep. Don't burn your brain thinking about this.

[Phil]

It happens. It happens on both sides. That someone will introduce some sort of frivolous legislation, and then you see a bunch of headlines about it because the people on the other side want to bash that idea publicly. And it's like, oh, let's just pay attention to more serious things.

[Chili]

Right. It just sucks the bandwidth out of the. Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

And that's when you hear people be like, now they're trying to.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Do you know? I mean. Oh, yeah. It's like. Yeah, like, PETA does stuff just to get. Like, PETA does things just to egg on and hopefully get a headline to egg people on.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, and so they'll do a thing like, this has zero chance in hell, but they'll do it. Because also in there, they are in the headlines. And it was like that, that Mount Rushmore thing. You know, it's funny, I looked up and I was trying to picture Mount Rushmore. I was like, would you put it on the right lookers right or lookers left? But geologists say just, you can't.

[Phil]

There's not a lot.

[Randall]

Yeah, there's no room.

[Steve Rinella]

There's no, like, no, this, the rock's not suitable. They kind of use. Someone's got to go.

[Chili]

This is, this is what I was looking for. Just so folks know it's not just here in Montana. Like if, if you're, you recreate Montana, you live here, that write in, ask your state representative to, to vote no or even a no vote, but vote no on HB307. We need dedicated habitat funding. That's the only thing that we have right now. But over in Wisconsin, there's a similar bill that would, would basically stop the Knowles Nelson Stewardship Program, which was created in 1989. People are really organized and aware of this one, including Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, the Safari Club have all come together to make sure the Knowles Nelson Stewardship Program is renewed. And there's some, some lawmakers over there that are saying that they're going to stop it because it's just funding that they don't think should exist.

[Corey]

But is there, is there examples in other states where, where the like funds like these weed tax funds or like a lottery sales where that, that were dedicated towards public lands, wildlife, etc, where they've been raided and put elsewhere?

[Chili]

Oh, I think there's, there's a, a ton of examples. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, right. Like, look at, look at the state of Missouri. Missouri is considered to have like a phenomenal wildlife funding mechanism because they have an actual state tax.

[Steve Rinella]

Right.

[Chili]

But literally the year after that tax was implemented, there were people trying to shut that thing down. And every year people attempt to divert funds from, you know, what many people consider to be like one of the best wildlife programs in the US but another one, New Mexico, has like a sovereign wealth fund that's taxes out of energy, which is a fund that renews itself and grows. And then that funding basically secures or is secure for like their school programs. So that, that'd be a version of, of what this Habitat for Montana fund is, that is successful.

[Steve Rinella]

So that's baked into the Restoration Wildlife actor, the Pittman Robertson Fund. They baked into it language. And it's called like so and so's 20 words or something like that. Right. There's like a name for it where it's Excuse me. That it's ba. Like it's written into the rule that you can't pillage it.

[Phil]

Yeah. Because.

[Steve Rinella]

Because anytime someone sees a little pot of money, they want to go get it.

[Phil]

And I. I'm not sure about Missouri, but, like, in. At least in Montana, I mean, that was part of the. That's, like, what people voted on. Like, we're going to do weed, but the weed money is going to go here, you know, And I believe that the same is true of the sales tax in Missouri. Is that, like, it was. Wasn't it a public.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Total.

[Chili]

Total bipartisan.

[Phil]

Yeah. And now it's like this is part of the deal. And then as soon as. As soon as people get on the same page, somebody else is trying to do the. Run around behind the back and spend that money elsewhere.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. I've always been like. Like all this legalizing weed rules. I could give a. I don't know what was so bad about hiding in the bushes, but I'm like, well, yeah, man, if you're going to use it for conservation money, then, yeah, it's a lot of money. Go get hot.

[Phil]

A lot of money.

[Steve Rinella]

Fry your brain.

[Corey]

Is your theory still hold true, like, about Democratic and Republican states, like, legalization.

[Steve Rinella]

That legalizing weed is. Is.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Like, the lefty states were quicker to legalize weed. Of course.

[Corey]

I. I'm just wondering.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, I mean, isn't that just, like, accepted as reality?

[Corey]

I know, but we kind of. We kind of showed that it wasn't necessarily that the case.

[Steve Rinella]

I think over time, perhaps. But Wyoming's.

[Phil]

Wyoming's still holding strong. I believe.

[Steve Rinella]

They don't want you smoking weed.

[Phil]

I believe so. I'm out over my skis here.

[Chili]

I drink it up.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Who else has got something?

[Cal]

Someone's got to take me turkey hunting this season. That's my thing.

[Steve Rinella]

I want to see if I'm still alive.

[Chili]

I want everybody to know that Corinne's the only person in the office who'll just put. We have, like, internal communication thing called Slack. And she'll just put out there. Does anybody have any pheasant spots? They want to give me the thing.

[Steve Rinella]

She just puts it. She just puts it right out.

[Chili]

I know. The thing is, like, she absolutely knows it's not an appropriate question, but she doesn't care either. Somebody will break.

[Phil]

I put on the charade of just going up.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Never killed a turkey. Just putting that out there. But I don't, you know, then follow up with the direct ask. Just sort of seed that thought.

[Corey]

Don't you have some special gun you're going to use for your first turkey?

[Phil]

If I can get it back from the gunsmith.

[Corey]

Great big one.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. When you're talking. I wasn't. I was only. I was only half listening. When you're. Yeah, because I wanted to tease you about shooting flintlock. Sure. What is the gun you're making?

[Phil]

It's a. It's a very silly story, but it's. It's a. It's like a German imported version of a submachine gun that's civilian legal. So it's got a 16 inch barrel and the lower unit is different. So you can get a trigger group from the real deal, make some modifications, mill some things, replace some parts, slap it in there and then you get a little.

[Steve Rinella]

It's a little what?

[Phil]

Little bullet hole, a little bullet hose.

[Steve Rinella]

And it's fully automatic.

[Phil]

No, no, it's just. It resembles the real thing we were talking about.

[Steve Rinella]

You're breaking a law for a minute.

[Phil]

No, no, no, no. This is all above.

[Randall]

That's a yes. It's a big. That's a big law to break.

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah. This is very self conscious, but this is just.

[Corey]

And you're going to use that machine gun for turkey?

[Phil]

No, no, no. It's just a silly little fun project that I'll probably end up selling as soon as I finish it.

[Steve Rinella]

This is one cow could give a.

[Phil]

No.

[Chili]

Yeah. I don't.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. I've never seen cow.

[Phil]

He's got more stuff to read.

[Steve Rinella]

I've never seen Cal less interested.

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chili]

I mean, I would have more interest in talking about rewiring a camper trailer that's currently. Currently sitting in your barn.

[Phil]

We can do that.

[Chili]

Yeah, that's. That's more fun to me. Yeah. It's like, oh, you're buying parts and putting them together. That's cool.

[Steve Rinella]

I couldn't believe how little he cared about what you're talking about.

[Randall]

I think if you shot this thing, you would care more.

[Chili]

Robertson dollars. Great. I love it.

[Steve Rinella]

You know what I was feeling? Cal's feeling complete indifference. Yeah. What I was feeling is little out of the. Out of the loop. Yeah. No, it's to be like that. I'm like, am I like. How could I not know what he's talking about? It's sort of getting a little jealous.

[Phil]

A very niche gun subculture. I've always been curious about. About these.

[Steve Rinella]

When you say these, what do you mean?

[Phil]

This, this. It's a.

[Randall]

It's Just tell them what it is.

[Phil]

It's an HK USC and The UMP is the original sort of law enforcement version. But you can do these modifications and put a folding stock on it.

[Steve Rinella]

What's Ms. Williams think about all this?

[Phil]

She thinks it's really stupid.

[Steve Rinella]

How much are you gonna have into this?

[Phil]

Let's just keep that.

[Randall]

That's not a great question.

[Phil]

Yeah, that's all. Those are all imaginary numbers. You know, you should.

[Randall]

What you should ask is, how much does he stand to make off of this once he completes his little build?

[Steve Rinella]

How much are you gonna make, Randall?

[Phil]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Steve Rinella]

I think it'll be.

[Phil]

I think it'll be more than I put into it.

[Steve Rinella]

So this is like a for profit? You're like a gun dealer?

[Phil]

No, I feel like we're using terms here that have certain legal implications. So.

[Chili]

I think it's a custom gun.

[Randall]

I'm trying to convince Randall to never sell gun. Don't sell guns. I'm in that camp.

[Steve Rinella]

I always regret it when I do. No, that's not true. I used to, but now I don't.

[Phil]

Yeah, I've got a whole. I mean, sometimes I play a game with my buddy where we try to name every gun that we've bought and sold. And we have a spreadsheet going, but it's still incomplete because we can't get there. Just a weird hobby, you know, some. There's some guys that are, like, really into cars, some guys that are really into stamps. But this will be fun. I'll. I'll have the little project, and then I can use it as a little plinker at the range for a little while. And then maybe it goes down the road. Maybe I. I used to keep it. Maybe I hang on to it.

[Chili]

Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to keep going?

[Phil]

For the record, I didn't bring this up, Cal.

[Steve Rinella]

No, that's true. I brought it up.

[Phil]

I've tried to change the subject several times.

[Steve Rinella]

You just seem like you don't want to talk about it.

[Phil]

Yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, it's one of those things that I'd sort of do compulsively. And I think if I. If I were. If I were better able to control my impulses, I'd probably make more practical decisions with the guns that I buy and sell. But, you know, that's just me and something that I live with every day. When I look at myself in the mirror, I don't always like what I see.

[Randall]

Too hard on yourself, Cal?

[Steve Rinella]

Go ahead. What were you gonna say when you got bored with Randall?

[Chili]

Senate Joint Resolution 25 009, Protection of Colorado's Public land. So this just happened yesterday. We're very timely. Right. But it is a bipartisan to two Democrats, two Republicans in the state of Colorado pushed through SJR 25 009, which is a joint resolution that says Colorado will not support the sale or privatization or transfer of the 22 million acres of public land in the state of Colorado. So this is in response to a bunch of the stuff that we've been covering over the last couple of months. Utah's lawsuit, which is going to be resubmitted here pretty quick.

[Steve Rinella]

No. Really?

[Chili]

Yeah. So, so great proactive move from the state of Colorado again. They have 22 million acres of federally managed land in that state and saying that they're against sale or transfer of public lands, which is great news for folks who like to go outside and do stuff in a free America.

[Steve Rinella]

And so with my little fire chart showing likelihood of advancing. Where does this one fit?

[Chili]

This one's through. It's through in the state of Colorado. Yeah.

[Corey]

Also in Colorado, the, that one we were talking about where they were going to change the language of how hunting would be used. That got tabled. So it's dead for the year.

[Steve Rinella]

You know what? I figured I had that pegged as a low when I developed my app. It'll be like a low probability. Yeah. That seemed like a gesture that seemed like grandstanding.

[Phil]

But every now and then there's a dry, windy day. You know, proverb, like figuratively speaking. Right.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Did you like that?

[Chili]

Yeah, I really did. I really did. I got a gun build going on right now too. Steve. I finally sent you that guy's info.

[Phil]

Oh yeah.

[Chili]

And we're not going to talk about him on this show because I don't want to get him backed up too much with gun orders.

[Steve Rinella]

Cuz you got to work on your gun.

[Randall]

This is the.

[Chili]

Yeah. My new new flint.

[Steve Rinella]

Flint lock.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Randall]

I'm not saying names.

[Chili]

Steve wants percussion cap. I'm going to go with the flint lock.

[Randall]

That's weak.

[Steve Rinella]

Let me tell you what I want. Let me tell you what I want. I, I, I did a call out on this and I'm going to do another call out on it. I want a single trigger, percussion cap.

[Corey]

Tack driver without the set trigger. Hair trigger. Deal.

[Randall]

I know. Company.

[Steve Rinella]

Single. Yeah, single trigger.

[Corey]

You just want like a three pound trigger.

[Steve Rinella]

Three pound trigger. I don't want that stupid second trigger on there. Just percussion cap. Single trigger, but a tack driver. And I'm willing to pay.

[Chili]

Yeah, I Have yet to participate. I guess we did do like. Where the hell were we? Nebraska or Iowa or someplace. Trying to hunt things with muzzleloaders.

[Corey]

Yeah. Those are in modern inlines, right?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, I like those things.

[Chili]

So that's. But that's the only thing I have. No, we plus we shot seek a deer a million years ago. Yeah.

[Corey]

Oh yeah, you did that with. You didn't even have a scope on yours.

[Chili]

No, no, those things come with.

[Corey]

Shooting away across the marsh. Just leveling them.

[Chili]

Those things come with scopes. Anyway, Real excited. Participate in Montana's heritage season. Well, she's hanging with me.

[Steve Rinella]

Come here, honey.

[Chili]

Yeah, so I'm doing the sensible thing and, and building up a rifle that is going to be super awesome so I can go effectively lay the smack down this, this coming heritage season with whatever tags I have left in my pocket.

[Steve Rinella]

Single trigger.

[Corey]

Go ahead.

[Steve Rinella]

50 cal. Single trigger, 50 cal. 3 pound pole percussion cap.

[Phil]

I'm a percussion.

[Steve Rinella]

I don't care. Now that's like if it looks old timey. It doesn't need to look old timey, it just, it's. It's Montana legal.

[Randall]

That's like the old barely legal, the TC Pennsylvania hunter. That's exactly what you're looking.

[Steve Rinella]

Single trigger percussion.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Now with percussion caps, you still gotta.

[Steve Rinella]

Walk around with a plastic hunter if it's percussion. Because you can't use it in Pennsylvania.

[Corey]

Yeah, you can.

[Steve Rinella]

No, you can only use flintlock.

[Randall]

Yeah, well, listen, it's a model that Thompson center made. They all the ones I've ever seen have been flintlocks. But they make them in. Or they used to. They don't make them anymore.

[Steve Rinella]

Is it still available? Single trigger, percussion.

[Randall]

You probably have to find one somewhere.

[Chili]

I don't know.

[Randall]

TC is getting fired back up again, so maybe they're going to start making them.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Oh, you want to know something interesting that happened to me and Dr. Randall? Two things. When we're in Wyoming. We're about ready to wrap up, Phil.

[Chili]

Yeah, that's great.

[Phil]

Put your hand on the switch there.

[Steve Rinella]

We're in Wyoming. We went. So we went to these archaeologists office and one thing that happened the minute we walked in the door, if you remember this, Randall. We walk into an archaeologist office and immediately I look and there's a giant dinosaur bone on the floor. Yeah. Like a giant femur of a dinosaur. And I said something to the effect of good Lord, what's that? And he said that's a rock. And I said, oh, I thought it was a dinosaur bone. And he said that's what the guy that gave it to me thought it was, and he offered it to us.

[Phil]

Yeah, he said, if you want to get it out of here, it's all yours.

[Steve Rinella]

Here's the interesting part. These guys are doing an excavation of Fort Bonneville, so like an 1830s mountain man site. And they're shown us just a little like scraps of metal. I mean, there's not much there. Like, you tell that metal was coveted. Like, nothing gets thrown away but a bunch of little old. Like, old. But what would have been very brand new.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Is a bunch of percussion caps that came off this site.

[Phil]

And they look just like a. Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Really, like, dude. Small rifle. Just like a little. Yeah, just like a. Like a percussion cap.

[Corey]

Were they fired or unfired percussion caps?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, fired percussion caps.

[Phil]

Yeah, that. That was cool.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. So you're looking at.

[Phil]

In the infancy of it would have.

[Steve Rinella]

Been cutting edge technology.

[Randall]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Corey]

Was it the Hawkin brothers that came out with percussion?

[Steve Rinella]

No, No.

[Chili]

I wonder if those percussion caps worked.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, they definitely did, man. They definitely did.

[Chili]

Well, how many of them work to not work ratio. That's what I'm interested.

[Steve Rinella]

Like, what was the. Yeah, like how often did you have a misfire? I can't see.

[Chili]

Yeah. That hunt that. The Nebraska or whatever late season deal that we did. Finally. Deer steps out. Oh, a little too far. Deer steps out a little too far. Oh, this one's on the right track. Comes out perfect. Broadside tip.

[Corey]

Bad primers, another tip.

[Chili]

Little puffs of smoke. And off percussions. Yeah, off percussion caps. And I'm like, yeah, well, that's why.

[Phil]

You'Re going to the flintlock.

[Chili]

Exactly, exactly. Well, and the other reason I'm going with the flintlock too is if it for whatever reason, is something that I do not like and can't accommodate, I can always go to a percussion cap with that same rifle.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Just put it, like, change the lock.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

You ever think about getting yourself match lock?

[Chili]

No.

[Steve Rinella]

That old kind where you had to light a fire. Yeah.

[Corey]

Then they call them fusees.

[Phil]

A wheel lock.

[Steve Rinella]

All right, everybody good? Anybody got anything else to say? Turkey week.

[Randall]

Good luck, turkey.

[Chili]

Oh, do you have any. Do you have any goals for your week of vacation that's coming up?

[Steve Rinella]

I need to recuperate foreign. We're gonna spearfish a bunch. But I'm worried about. I just don't have any energy right now.

[Chili]

Right.

[Steve Rinella]

So I'm worried about that.

[Chili]

You have any species goals?

[Steve Rinella]

No. Take what I can get. I packed my filet knife so I can tell you that don't want to.

[Chili]

Be a fish on that reef.

[Steve Rinella]

Pack my knife. I gotta get better. My kid's raring to go. He's going to be very irritated that I'm not, that I need a day. I need a recuperation day or two when I get there.

[Cal]

Did he get that new GoPro?

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, my God.

[Randall]

Oh, he did.

[Steve Rinella]

And he's got, like, a little payment plan. He did a I. I bank rolled the purchase. He had. He had 100 bucks that he kicked in. I made him make a chart. So for the next eight months, he owes me 30 bucks a month, interest or no interest free.

[Chili]

Hit him up with really no juice.

[Phil]

Rate's tough.

[Chili]

Yeah, parenting's good.

[Steve Rinella]

So I got that chart in my office and 30 bucks a month payment.

[Chili]

You should build one with, like, general credit card interest rates and be like.

[Cal]

Here'S what it could be, just so that he.

[Phil]

Yeah, it's a variable.

[Steve Rinella]

I wasn't thinking about it. Milking it out of them is ro.

[Cal]

Get in the old camera. She gonna mess.

[Steve Rinella]

He says part of what his plan is to sell the old one to get some of his payments.

[Cal]

I'm telling you, he's got a mind.

[Steve Rinella]

He's a wheeler and dealer.

[Phil]

Yeah, exactly.

[Steve Rinella]

He's like Randall. He's a wheeler dealer. One in, one out.

[Cal]

He should accompany Randall to the estate sales, and then maybe they can buy stuff and resell stuff and, you know.

[Chili]

I can't wait to see him out there. Being like, the more I talk about this, I don't even think I want to sell this. It's probably better than the new one, but I suppose I can let it go.

[Steve Rinella]

All right. This might be my last show.

[Chili]

It's been fun. Thanks for been a good, good run.

[Randall]

What number is this?

[Steve Rinella]

Corinne, if I die.

[Cal]

Oh, wow.

[Chili]

We're at 600, 670 something.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, really? You believe that?

[Cal]

Oh, my gosh.

[Steve Rinella]

If I die, want everybody to know. Thanks for listening.

[Randall]

Can I have all your.

[Chili]

Fast to the dress?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. And since Randall knows his. Randall, you're in charge of the estates.

[Chili]

Yeah.

[Corey]

You're gonna have to. You're gonna have to fight everything for it.

[Steve Rinella]

I know.

[Phil]

I've got the app on my phone. It'll be real smooth.

[Cal]

Auction everything off, and we'll get a bajillion dollars for conservation.

[Steve Rinella]

Randall sent me a picture. Randall. He was showing me about an estate sale the other day, and then he sent me a picture. There's two things at the estate sale that didn't sell, and it was a box of empty DVD cases? Yeah, and some disposable urine collection devices. Everything else cleared out? Yeah, I got a. I got a.

[Phil]

Box of bullets for real steel and a nice digital scale with my name on it.

[Cal]

Peace out.

[Steve Rinella]

Thanks for joining. I'm telling you, man, there's nothing quite like. It gives me chubby just thinking about it. You hit the call and way off in the distance, a tom fires back. You work him in, watching his body language shift from cautious to committed. Then that moment, the one every turkey hunter dreams about all winter. Zach Gobbler locks eyes on your decoy and comes running in. And if you're using the right decoy, you don't need to then settle for a 40 yard nervous shot. Because with the right decoy, you can get that bird in your lap, putting on a wild, aggressive turkey show. I mean, I'm talking where he's fighting the decoy. I've had him sitting there trying to mate with the decoy. It's the best thing in the world. But to pull it off, you need realism like you need decoys that don't just fool turkeys at a distance. You want a decoy that fools them when he's up there at point blank range beating the snot out of it. That is why die hard turkey hunters insist on Dave Smith decoys. Their unmatched realism fools even the wariest of toms into thinking they're staring and fighting a real bird. And unlike inflatable decoys that crumble when shot, DSDs are built tough. They last season after season, even if you screw up and put a little TSS into one of them. To top it all off, every DSD turkey decoy is made right here in the good old US of A. Made in America. Check out the full [e-mail] and take your turkey hunts to the next level.