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- [00:00]
Advertiser
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- [01:21]
Steve Rinella
This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listen, we hunt the Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything.
- [01:32]
Advertiser
The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands or scouting for elk, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light.com f I r s t l I t.com.
- [01:52]
Steve Rinella
Joined today by my neighbor, but not Pottery Pat. Further down the road, Rev. Dr. Shane Yates, CEO and co founder of Task Force Heroes, who sent us his upon our request. He's not bragging. Sent us his, like, military CV that goes on and on. Chili, what's your take on that? He just, Shane says it just demonstrates that he's old.
- [02:27]
Chili
Yeah, we were talking about, you know, how they change things, like for an example, like for a lot up until, like from 2001, like I believe, like 2015, 2016, 2017. Somewhere in there, like they called it Operation Enduring Freedom, which means like the campaign in Afghanistan. And then in 16 or 17 they change it to Operation Resolute Support. So, so like, it just kind of signifies like things are Constantly changing. So, though I don't understand most of what it's on there, it's like, I'm sure there's something similar that I could probably relate it to. But, like, I look at it, I'm just like. Yeah. I would refer to him as stacked.
- [03:05]
Steve Rinella
So stacked, which means jacked and stacked. He's getting totally uncomfortable over here.
- [03:10]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [03:11]
Chili
So when I, When I say stacked, it's like you look at his, like his, his achievements and medals and like your stack is like your. Your ribbons and medals. And so if you're stacked, you have a lot of them.
- [03:21]
Steve Rinella
Bronze Star medal with oak leaf cluster. Combat action badge, Iraq Campaign medal with two bronze stars. Afghanistan Campaign medal with two bronze stars. NATO Service medal, National. I could go on and on. He loves. No, he loves it.
- [03:36]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I don't like it.
- [03:37]
Steve Rinella
What? I know.
- [03:38]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Jump in here, Corinne, help me out.
- [03:40]
Corinne
Sorry I put that in there, but I'm not sorry at all.
- [03:43]
Steve Rinella
Born in Kodia. Born in Kodiak, Alaska. Let me. Let's take this approach. Born in Kodiak, Alaska. A long career in law enforcement.
- [03:52]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, I was actually. I was born in.
- [03:53]
Steve Rinella
Stay close to that mic. Shane.
- [03:54]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Oh, sorry. I was born in Encino. Oh, California, but spent most of my life growing up in Kodiak.
- [04:01]
Steve Rinella
Got it.
- [04:01]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [04:02]
Steve Rinella
And then longtime Law Enforcement and LAPD.
- [04:05]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
LA Sheriff, LA Sheriff.
- [04:07]
Corinne
Sorry, that's my bad.
- [04:08]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
And then, yeah, don't mix us up with lapd. And I love my LAPD guys, but.
- [04:12]
Steve Rinella
You know, LA Sheriff.
- [04:13]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
- [04:14]
Steve Rinella
And then long, long time in the US Army.
- [04:18]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah, I went in a little older, and again, I'm still in, so I'm not here representing the army, but I went in after. After law enforcement as a chaplain, which was kind of an interesting change. And, yeah, been doing that now for almost 18 years.
- [04:36]
Steve Rinella
In that up Shane lives up the road for me. And. Well, not lives, but Shane's organization, Task Force Heroes, is based up the road for me on a. On a property. And I just became aware of Shane and wanted to have him on the show because of he does really cool work, which we're going to get into. Shane hosts. You tell. Tell everybody what? You tell everybody. Yeah, I wanted to do it like an intro, but I'd rather just hear it from you.
- [05:04]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah. So we bring up first responders and vets from all across the country totally free. I mean, guys and gals from various agencies. A lot of them been involved in some of the more major critical incidents that have gone on in the country. So we're Blessed to do that. And then vets from. From all over the country as well. So police, fire, and either actively serving or veterans.
- [05:30]
Steve Rinella
Give an example of some of the groups you might have up. I mean, as much as you're comfortable, you've at various times told me about groups you had in. And it could be like a collection of officers who've been involved in a specific incident or.
- [05:42]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [05:42]
Steve Rinella
How much are you comfortable talking about?
- [05:44]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, no, no, for instances. Yeah, we can talk a little about that. So we get a ton of. For whatever reason, probably just some of my connections in la, but we get a lot of LAPD guys, a lot of Metro division, you know, tier one level, you know, SWAT canine guys up, a lot of. We've had a lot of Huntington beach pilots, Huntington Beach PD folks, Long beach fire, from some incidents that occurred there. An unfortunate incident in particular where a captain was. Was killed on a fire by a pistol, by a guy with a handgun. And then, you know, vets from all over the place and from multiple conflicts, mostly OIF, OEF, Iraq, Afghanistan stuff. A lot of pilots, 160 sore guys, just kind of all over. All over the board.
- [06:35]
Steve Rinella
And these guys come up and they. They fish, you guys shoot bows. You get outside. And as Shane puts it, he. He put it to me. The technical term he put to me, we shower them in love, man.
- [06:51]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I mean, I think, you know, here's. Here's the deal, right? The goal is to reach in and massage their hearts and. And love on them and meet them right where they are, not where we think they need to be, just. Just right where they are in their journey. And so we do fly fishing, right? We teach that. We do archery stuff. We used to do more mountain biking, but they seem to like the. Archery is probably their favorite. We said, we set up a course, 3D targets, all that kind of a long course, and then. And then get them out fishing. And then we. We don't want them just to. Just to go have fun. I mean, that's a. That's a part of it, right? Kind of decompress, get out of the concrete jungles that they're working in or wherever they're at. We want them to. To take home something as well for their toolbox. And, And. And so we teach resiliency skills, kind of the five Pillars, we'll talk about spiritual resiliency, whatever that looks like to them. You could also substitute the word resiliency for fitness, but spiritual resiliency, physical resiliency, emotional, social, family, mental, all those kind of. All those Kind of things too. So they learn something while they're there. And then we also give them a little shot of some leadership stuff. We talk about their core, their context, their capabilities and courage. What's real courage look like? You know, where are you going to stand up? And let's look at the times where you should have stood up for what was right. And so we cover all those. Context would be where you're currently at in your life, your marriage, family, work, capabilities. What are those God given gifts and talents that you have that maybe you're not using? What are the things that rob you of your energy, man, and drain you? And what are the things that you can do that give you energy? So obviously outdoors is one of those things.
- [08:37]
Steve Rinella
We're gonna dive into that pretty deep and then talk about your own background. But you got to hang tight with us for a minute. We're talking about a couple other things. Yeah, we have. This is a lot of times guys write in with like really arcane Fish and wildlife rule breaking questions.
- [09:01]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Okay. All right.
- [09:03]
Steve Rinella
And so we got to do a little listener feedback here. You ready for this one? So this guy says meat eater crew. I've recently watched your episode titled the future of Waterfowl. The segment about how limits on waterfall are decided. Remind me of a question I have had, I have discussed with buddies while sitting in the blind. You ready for this, Shane? I. I live in northern Kentucky along the Ohio River. A lot of fishermen and hunters in this area purchase a Kentucky license as well as an Indiana license so that we can access the tributaries on both sides of the river. Most laws are pretty straightforward, but one area that is questionable are the limits for each state. For example, as a Kentuckian, we are allowed three Canadian allowed three Canada geese.
- [09:57]
Advertiser
During the late season.
- [10:00]
Steve Rinella
As a Hoosier in the southern zone, you are allowed five Canada geese daily for the duration of the season. My questions are as follows. As a Kentucky resident that holds a license for both states hunting on water that is legal for both states, what is my legal limit during the late season? Does it depend on which ramp you launch off or which state's wildlife officer checks you? Can I shoot a limit for both states?
- [10:37]
Guest
I think it's funny how I took.
- [10:38]
Steve Rinella
It to a game warden.
- [10:39]
Guest
You did, huh?
- [10:40]
Steve Rinella
I took it to a game warden.
- [10:42]
Guest
Well, yeah. It's funny though that he says that he purposely hasn't taken it to a game warden because he just loves talking about it and just wondering about it and writing into meat eater about it.
- [10:53]
Steve Rinella
Yep. It's like when I make us go.
- [10:56]
Guest
To the game warden.
- [10:57]
Steve Rinella
When I would send a question to a game warner. Go game warden. It's like let's say a fella just.
- [11:06]
Guest
Maybe before you give the answer, can I take a stab?
- [11:11]
Steve Rinella
Yeah. I don't have the. I, I have how a game warden. I asked a retired, recently retired game warden how he would handle it and he gave me a couple things to think about.
- [11:22]
Guest
Yeah. Because they'll always tell you that it's up to their interpretation. Right. But I would think I would feel like I would have a very strong case no matter which state I launched in, if I had the correct hunting license and he has both. If I went to the state where you could shoot more geese, then I shot more geese there. Not in the state where you could only shoot three, but where you could shoot five, which was in Indiana. And I shot five geese and then I came back to Kentucky. I was just over there hunting as a non resident hunter. As long as you could prove where you were and where you shot your five geese, it shouldn't be a problem. And it's a definite no on the question whether you can shoot two limits.
- [12:06]
Corinne
Yeah, that seems obvious.
- [12:09]
Steve Rinella
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna offer in this, I'm gonna offer a couple little, just, just a little color from different areas before I tell you what the game warden said. He, he didn't say anything like drama, you know, like, like stunning. But like, let me give you a couple things to consider. We might have discussed this in the original conversation. But like for instance, take the Delaware river, which for a while along its course, it forms the border between New York and Pennsylvania. They created a, a sort of unified zone so that you didn't have New York law in that river, contradicting Pennsylvania law in that river. The two states come together and come up with a river bag limit. You can fish the entire river with either state's license, but then the river has a bag limit that sits aside. Like let's say New York is like six bass a day. Pennsylvania, I'm just pulling these numbers out. They're not real. Pennsylvania has four bass a day. And so instead of some guy saying, well, do I get six or four? They go and say in the river, in that river we're going to come together and say it's five in that river. That's one way to handle it. Another example that's totally different is if you go to the St. Mary's river, which forms the border between the United States and Canada, particularly Michigan. And Ontario, you have to like know in that river channel. This, the international boundary runs up the river. You're obligated to know where you are.
- [13:44]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [13:44]
Corinne
The border patrols in it.
- [13:46]
Steve Rinella
You're obligated to know like this line you can't see. It's your responsibility to know that you didn't drift five feet over into the US while fishing for sure. And that, that's, that's how they look at it. I had one more example that I thought was kind of interesting about how they do all this. Well, here's what the warden said. The warden said I'd be asking you, I'd be looking at two questions. Where were you? Oh no, one more color. One more, one more bit of color. In Alaska they do an interesting thing with this where it kind of pertains, let's say that you have one area and you're allowed three black tail deer per year. And you have another area and you're allowed one black tailed deer per year throughout the season. You can't hunt a place where you are over that place's bag limit regardless of where you got them.
- [14:47]
Corinne
Oh collectively. So if you're in the three limit and you shoot one, you can't go hunt in the one limit.
- [14:52]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Got it.
- [14:52]
Steve Rinella
So, so let's say like I, let's say you are go down to the, you go down to Sitka and you kill a black, you kill a black tail and then you go to your home and your home is a one bag limit. You're out in your home. You couldn't be like, well I got my one there where it's three. It's like it f. Your possession limit follows you to wherever go. So the warden that I brought this question to said I would be looking at where were you when you shot him? Obviously. But then I would also be wondering, I would be looking at too is besides that, where were you when you possessed them? So your thing of that you cross the channel and kill. You cross the channel in a place and kill five where you're allowed five, but then you're pulling out, you're still got your shotgun with you and you still look to be hunting and you're, and you're pulling your boat out in a three zone. He would feel that you were over your possession in the field and it'd be like, well I understand you got him over there, but here you're hunting and you're over your possession. And that's, that's his take on it.
- [16:11]
Corinne
I feel like that's reading the rules in A way where you're. You're trying to be, like, the most fair. Like, you're not trying to, like, advantage yourself.
- [16:25]
Steve Rinella
Yeah.
- [16:26]
Corinne
In a. In a little, you know, like, I think that's the right way. So I think that our listener probably, like, deep inside his heart knows what the answer really is. So there.
- [16:39]
Advertiser
Yeah.
- [16:39]
Steve Rinella
And maybe the warden, like, the warden's in a position where you really got to go figure out where you were standing when he shot all these. He's just like, dude, you're, like, out in your boat hunting. You got your gun, you got five geese. You're here. Like, you're here. You're over your limits.
- [16:58]
Corinne
Yeah.
- [16:59]
Chili
I also feel like it's a pretty. Pretty easy question to answer, because I can. I'd guarantee, like, he's not the first person along that river that has ever had that question and. Or maybe or not done that. So just call the.
- [17:13]
Steve Rinella
Your.
- [17:13]
Chili
Your fwp, Your game warden and ask him, because I'm sure they've dealt with it before. So it's like, I feel like he went out of his way to. To email us where he could have just called the FWP office and figured it out.
- [17:25]
Steve Rinella
Well, no, I think he emailed because this is my favorite. It's my favorite subject in the world.
- [17:28]
Guest
Right.
- [17:29]
Steve Rinella
But like, like, just, like, weird game loss, but.
- [17:31]
Chili
No, no, no, totally. What I'm saying is, like, he emailed with not knowing if he could get a response from you, but he could have certainly got a response from. Guaranteed response from fwp.
- [17:40]
Corinne
Yeah. But he's also contributing to our content, so I don't.
- [17:43]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I'm not.
- [17:43]
Steve Rinella
Thank you very much. Despite chili Spike Chili, thinking that you, like, screwed up and. Yeah, man, come on, dude.
- [17:52]
Chili
Good question.
- [17:55]
Steve Rinella
This next one we're going to go to. We're going to go to Rev. We're going to go to our pastor.
- [17:59]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
All right, here we go.
- [18:00]
Steve Rinella
Because this is a. This is an ethics one. Now, you got law enforcement background, so you could have definitely weighed in on law enforcement. We're going to bring an ethics one.
- [18:07]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
To you, all right?
- [18:08]
Steve Rinella
We do a thing called. We have a colleague called Chester, and Chester's the nicest, most fair guy in the world, right? So a lot of times we'll bring etiquette questions, and we call them chatticate, and we'll bring them to Chester, who usually waffles. He's usually like, well, you know, I can see both sides, you know, but here's an ethics one for you.
- [18:28]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
All right?
- [18:29]
Steve Rinella
Hello, crew. You ready? You following Shane I'm following.
- [18:34]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Hello crew.
- [18:35]
Steve Rinella
I hunt in rural South Carolina on my father in law's property, which is mostly open row crop fields with a few blocks of wood between fields. You picturing it? My father in law in the late 2000s bought the land from his father in law. This sounds like a right thing for. I haven't read this yet. This sounds like there might be a divorce brewing somewhere in this email. A lot of in laws.
- [19:00]
Guest
I don't think that fact is actually important to the.
- [19:02]
Steve Rinella
Oh, it's not. It doesn't wind up being about divorce. Okay, so just a little background. Father in law bought it from father in law. There is a guy that has half a dozen stands scattered across the property. It's roughly 800 acres. He also loans his spots out to his friends to hunt as they please. This guy theorizes that this individual is charging these people to hunt and has turned this land into a hunting club. My father in law has zero interest in hunting, so this is not really an issue for him, but it is for my wife, his daughter and her brother along with myself. So just to help people at home understand, the patriarch who actually owns the land doesn't care what this guy does. His children care.
- [19:54]
Guest
And this guy has no affiliation with the family other than he used to have access with the previous owner, father in law of his father in law.
- [20:06]
Steve Rinella
So let me. Yeah, I'll continue on. He the patriarch does not want to completely kick the guy off the land because he had permission to hunt there before my father in law acquired the property. So he feels that he should be allowed a couple stands but only the one guy, not his buddies.
- [20:25]
Corinne
Lots of feelings.
- [20:27]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
There's lots.
- [20:28]
Steve Rinella
However, the guy has never actually asked my father in law for hunting permission since he has been the landowner for 17 years. I confronted the guy and drew on the map the one field, about 85 acres that me along with my wife and brother in law were okay with him and only him hunting. He was not a fan of my suggestion and responded that he was going to hunt the whole road, which is about 400 acres. How can I handle this for the 2025 deer hunting season? My wife is leaning towards calling the game warden. This guy points out I don't know this will do much good because my father in law is not the kind of guy to press trespassing charges. Meanwhile, the brother in law wants to tear down the hunting stands. What's the cleanest way to avoid any larger issues, if there are any? I mean, it's pretty obvious.
- [21:33]
Corinne
Yeah, this guy Feels pretty darn entire.
- [21:35]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think Pops has got the last say, right?
- [21:37]
Steve Rinella
Yes.
- [21:37]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I mean, that's the bottom line. He's barking up the wrong tree.
- [21:40]
Steve Rinella
He wrote the email to the wrong people.
- [21:42]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, he's. Yeah. I'm sorry, man. That's an ethical. That's a good one. I wish I had easy ones like that all the.
- [21:51]
Steve Rinella
Yeah, it sounds like you gotta go talk to dad.
- [21:54]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
And if dad's cool with it, then, I mean, that's it.
- [21:57]
Corinne
But isn't there, like, kind of sway.
- [21:59]
Chili
Dad, like, if he got permission from, you know, two owners ago, he would. He would.
- [22:05]
Steve Rinella
He's got his own problem.
- [22:06]
Chili
Well, yeah, but he would also need to get permission again or every time.
- [22:10]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [22:10]
Chili
Like under new ownership.
- [22:12]
Guest
Not according to this.
- [22:13]
Chili
Well, not according to that guy.
- [22:14]
Steve Rinella
So, like, he has a tacit. He enjoys a tacit permission from the father in law. Whatever's going on between the guy and the father in law. If the owner of the property is like, I don't want to mess with the guy. That's his call. Yeah, I got. We got a funny story similar. Similar to this where I probably. I'm sure I've told this, but I'll tell it. A friend of mine had. A friend of mine from school had a. Her family owned some properties in California. I'm talking to her dad and her dad's like, yeah, you guys can hunt turkeys. He says, no one's ever hunted turkeys. Except for. It was like, I'm not exaggerating. Twenty years ago, 20 years prior, he had been trying to put in a water system. He had a pond, and he was trying to put in a wildfire water system of his own. So some guys from the local fire department came out and consulted with him about how to go about putting in his own pump system so that he could fight fire if his house was going to catch on fire. And as a thank you, he extended a permission to one of these firefighters to hunt turkeys. He's telling me no one's hunted it since that guy. When I put the pump in.
- [23:32]
Advertiser
While.
- [23:33]
Steve Rinella
We'Re hunting, while we're hunting, we run into a guy, and here's a guy hunting the place. And I, you know, it's like, you always feel funny because, like, you have permission too, but you can't. You gotta, like, ask like, hey, what's. Yeah, my understanding from the landowners, no one's hunting, but here's a guy hunting. So I'm like, hey, what. What's up? Oh, yeah, you know, Glenn gave me permission. I'm a, I'm a firefighter and I'm like. You talked to Glenn lately?
- [24:00]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
No.
- [24:00]
Steve Rinella
How is Glenn doing? This guy had been hunted for 20 years off that permission.
- [24:12]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, I mean, I mean, the right. Obviously the right thing to do is you got, you gotta be checking in, man. If you're hunting some problem, you gotta check in once in a while, man. I mean, that's, that's a no go.
- [24:21]
Corinne
I mean, that's like.
- [24:22]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, I talked to him. When was last night, y'all? It was back in 1974. He gave me permission here. That's. That's a bad deal.
- [24:29]
Guest
I think it's rampant though. Like, we just. I, I had a little bit of a windfall with another property in Wisconsin that we just gained access to. And I've been kind of giddy about it. Then I started thinking about it. I'm like, you know, if everything's right, according to these older Latvian gals, that no one's been hunting this place for some time, it means. And they haven't been there in years and their kids don't have anything to do with it, someone else is probably treating it as their hunting spot.
- [24:58]
Steve Rinella
Sure.
- [24:58]
Guest
Like, I will not be surprised when I go there this spring to find tree stands, maybe a camera, maybe some tire tracks, I think. Yeah, it's the, it's the old, you know, better ask for forgiveness than permission attitude.
- [25:15]
Advertiser
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- [27:57]
Steve Rinella
When we were little, it's stunning now to drive around where I live with, with Onx because we're little if public meant you hadn't been yelled at there yet. And now to be like, oh my God, that's like a guy's place. I never really thought about what that place was. We just called it the woods.
- [28:20]
Corinne
I'm surprised that isn't that people really don't check in more. And that's so common because you know you could get in real big trouble for trespassing. So don't you want to, you know, I just feel like the excuse of, you know, someone 17 years ago gave me permission doesn't hold. Like the one constant in life is change. So you know, you don't want to.
- [28:44]
Guest
Be in real big trouble though. And it's just, it's there isn't the real big trouble. I mean it's going to be a slap on the hand. It's like driving your ATV places. You're not supposed to drive it on these public lands. Yeah, people do it because what are they going to do? There's like a couple hundred dollar fine. They're like, oh I'd pay a thousand bucks and drive my. Yeah, exactly.
- [29:05]
Corinne
Maybe we should. Maybe we should. Someone should think about changing the law, because that's.
- [29:12]
Steve Rinella
No.
- [29:12]
Guest
I don't know, Corinne. More rules and regulations around these parts. People don't like that.
- [29:18]
Steve Rinella
Shane, you ready?
- [29:19]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Okay.
- [29:20]
Steve Rinella
Why'd you guys go to Kodiak? You were born where, where were you born?
- [29:23]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I was born in California. Southern California. How old are you? I'm going to 57.
- [29:27]
Steve Rinella
How long you been married?
- [29:28]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, he's asked me these. Tough ones. My wife's gonna listen to this and make sure I get this right. I was married in 92, so. What is that? I don't know. A lot of years.
- [29:38]
Chili
32.
- [29:39]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
32, 33 years.
- [29:40]
Steve Rinella
Congratulations.
- [29:41]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. Yeah, she put up with me.
- [29:43]
Steve Rinella
Yeah. That's your only wife?
- [29:44]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Surprising. It's my only wife.
- [29:47]
Steve Rinella
So why, why Kodiak?
- [29:48]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, so my dad did contracts, military contracts, was a builder, painter, did a lot of that. So. And, and he had a buddy from Vietnam that was up there, crab fishing. So he started doing construction stuff, and then, Then he went crab fishing. Oh, really? Variancy stuff? Yep.
- [30:06]
Steve Rinella
Huh. And you were brought up around that?
- [30:08]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [30:09]
Steve Rinella
Had he been, had your dad been military?
- [30:11]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
He was in Vietnam, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- [30:14]
Steve Rinella
Talk about. I don't, I've lost track what it is, but, but lay out your family. Like you guys are a family of service, man. Yeah, Walk through that a little bit. It's kind of. I, I, when you're telling me it before, I was like, I couldn't even follow all the people.
- [30:26]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [30:27]
Steve Rinella
From your lineage.
- [30:28]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. So I'm not sure where you want me to start, but. Grandparents served, you know, grandfathers. My dad served, I served. My three sons are serving, two in the military, one in law enforcement, and then my daughter's in law enforcement, one of my girls, and then my other daughter, she's got two kids, and she, she's the only one that's not, not serving, but she's, she's low on the list for, for a fire department, so that's what she's gonna do.
- [31:05]
Steve Rinella
So that was a little bit baked in by your dad or. No, like, he wasn't bitter about Vietnam.
- [31:09]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
He, he didn't talk about Vietnam a lot. Man, I love my pops, man, but he, he was always happy, right? Like, always a happy guy. Good mood, never cranky, never grumpy. Wouldn't really get too much into, into Vietnam, but, But I just kind of watched him, and, and the little bits he would say just kind of always stood out, you know, to Me is hugely important. He'd always talk about his buddies over there and different things like that. And, and he was a former law enforcement guy, so he started with California High Patrol way back in the day. So I watched that service a lot. And yeah, that was kind of my, my, my motivator. Even. Even in high school, even Alaska, I think I was the only one of my buddies, and I'm tight with all my buddies from up there. Just small town, right? You grow up island, right. I mean, there's one stoplight. When I was growing up, we were excited to get a McDonald's when we were, I think in eighth grade or something, but I think I'm the only one that went into to, you know, military, law enforcement type stuff out of that creek. Out of that crew? Yeah, yeah, out of that crew.
- [32:15]
Steve Rinella
And what was the first move you made in that direction?
- [32:18]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
What do you mean? What year do we go there?
- [32:20]
Steve Rinella
No, no, I'm sorry. Oh, when you were, when you were young, you got into law enforcement?
- [32:26]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, real young. So I left Alaska and I don't know, 87, but I go back up and fish. So the last place I fished was Bristol Bay commercial gill netting.
- [32:36]
Steve Rinella
Oh, you did?
- [32:36]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, fish there? I fished kind of all over Alaska, commercial fishing. Salmon, herring, halibut openings. And then. And then after that went to school for a little while at Boise State. Not long. And then. And then went to. Went to la. I kind of wanted to see the, the action and, and where it was kind of all happening, and I certainly got that. But, yeah, I got hired, hired there in 88.
- [33:03]
Steve Rinella
So what year, what year in LA was the. It was later. The, the Rodney King incident and all that?
- [33:10]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, I was there for that. It was 92.
- [33:12]
Steve Rinella
That was 92, yep. Did you specifically want to go there because of family ties into California, just because you thought that was a place you were going to?
- [33:21]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Well, I mean, it was. It's the largest sheriff's apartment, I believe, in the, in the country and just advanced and kind of wanted to see the inner city and, and kind of go for the top, you know, toughest place and, and I was young and no responsibility at the time, so I went there and I was actually on Normandy when, when the riots jumped off. Well, you know that Denny was getting kind of whooped up pretty good just up at Florence in Normandy. So I was just south on, on Normandy, south of Imperial. So we were fairly close. We didn't know he was up there getting whooped up on. I was just handling a call. Guy got his Car shot up, this little housing project and partner was down, down at the car. I was just getting the info and all of a sudden doors started swinging open and you know, certain things were being said to us and, and so I just started jumping steps about every three or four steps. Get back the car and. And immediately the riots just jumped off. So we were going south on Norman and the streets were flooding and I mean it was like immediate. That's what was kind of wild to see, just the immediate reaction of chaos. And I remember looking back and seeing just people in the streets, stores getting looted and we were called back to the station to kind of gear up and that's what we did. We geared up and they just said, do what you can do, Try to roll two cars deep. And so that's what we did for the next couple days. So yeah, it was different now just.
- [34:57]
Steve Rinella
In your first few years of that.
- [34:59]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah, I had worked custody, you know, with the sheriffs. You gotta work in the jails first. So that's kind of an experience. Yeah, I worked up at a supermax facility and that's, that's an interesting environment. You kind of learn the streets a little bit from being in there, you know, talking to inmates and whatnot. But yeah, yeah, then you get, you know, you put in your dream list, your wish list for. I think back then it was six choices. So my first choice was to go down to South Central and, and work and I got my first choice. So you can kind of watch your numbers as they get lower and lower to when you're going to go out. I did 28 months in the jail and then, and then got assigned there. So then you go to patrol school and then you'll get your station and you're a trainee for a while. That was an experience. I don't know how it is now, but it was humbling. Yeah.
- [35:56]
Steve Rinella
What was it like absorbing all that, you know, absorbing that hatred of cops at that time in la?
- [36:03]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, man, you know, I guess it's, it was, it's a little bit hard to understand. I mean, when you roll into an area where, you know, it's, it's painted, you know, spray painted certain words against the 5, 0 or. Yeah, you know, that kind of stuff. It was different from a kid that grew up in a tiny town, you know, that, that, that first night on patrol was, was wild as a trainee, as a new, new person. My FTO wasn't there that night, so rode with a different guy. And, and so back then it was, you know, training was was hard and you're the new person, so you just keep your mouth shut and do your work and. But yeah, it was, it was different, you know, I don't think it really affected me. I mean, you just do your job, just do your thing, support the community as best you can, support your, your fellow fellow deputies. But it was definitely a, A different environment from what I had grown up in, for sure. Yeah.
- [37:11]
Steve Rinella
How do you, how do you look at it? Like, if you, if you look at the LA riots at that time, just for, for younger people who don't remember this, there was an incident where it's like, if someone really wants to dig in on this, Made in America, the documentary, I don't know if you've seen it, Made in America, that covers the LA riots. Really careful, because it winds up being. It's this very long ESPN thing about O.J. simpson, but it spends a ton of time on the LA riots.
- [37:38]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
But.
- [37:38]
Steve Rinella
Right, so a bunch of officers pull over a guy, Rodney King, he resisted arrest somewhat. They beat snot out of him, they got acquitted. Is that how it goes?
- [37:51]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [37:52]
Steve Rinella
And then all hell broke loose, right? Yeah.
- [37:55]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yep. They chased him for, for a long time.
- [37:58]
Steve Rinella
Yeah.
- [37:59]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. Somebody got on video.
- [38:02]
Steve Rinella
That's right.
- [38:03]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [38:04]
Steve Rinella
Back. This is back when everything wasn't on video.
- [38:06]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. No, it was novel. It certainly was after that.
- [38:09]
Steve Rinella
Yeah. How's that? Like, when something like that happens for what. What's your attitude toward those officers?
- [38:22]
Advertiser
Do you know?
- [38:22]
Steve Rinella
I mean, do you, do you stay, like, do you stay where you're going? You think to yourself, well, I understand where they're coming from, I understand where.
- [38:31]
Advertiser
They got pushed to.
- [38:31]
Steve Rinella
Or do you look at something like that when you're a policeman and you look at something like that and you'd be like, man, you guys have known better. Like, like, how do you handle it internally?
- [38:40]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think, I think one of the biggest things is, is you never know what's gone on prior to this. Right. Or, or what the call was, or, or what's happening. I'm certain not. I'm certainly not justifying the, the amount of force that was used. I wasn't there, you know, I don't, I don't know other than what I saw. But there, there's always many details and conversations and things said and things done by the suspect as well as the, as the cop that I, I think that that plays a huge role in all that, you know, and, and it's easy to, you know, again, not that situation, but other situations, you know, you can see on TV and You can watch it. But who knows what happened prior to that, or what he was wanted for or what his actions were, what he said or what the witness said or all that stuff.
- [39:28]
Steve Rinella
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:29]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Is a huge piece of the, the story.
- [39:32]
Steve Rinella
Yeah. And in those cases, that's the thing I always wind up thinking, I always wind up looking and I'm like, man, I would have to have, like a documentary about what went on that day before I can really start putting together who did.
- [39:45]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [39:45]
Steve Rinella
Now. Then you see stuff and you're like. It seems egregious. But then you're like, I don't know what the hell happened, man.
- [39:50]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [39:50]
Steve Rinella
Like.
- [39:51]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [39:52]
Steve Rinella
You know, I don't know the background.
- [39:53]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [39:53]
Steve Rinella
It was being hard to weigh in on it, you know.
- [39:55]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [39:56]
Steve Rinella
People are sure quick to.
- [39:57]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [39:58]
Steve Rinella
But I always feel a little reluctance.
- [40:00]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right. Yeah. I mean, in the every, you know, encounter with someone, you. You don't know who you're encountering. I don't know what they knew about him or his background. I mean, I've heard things, but, you know, all those things play a, Play a role. What was he wanted for? What was the crime committed? But again, I mean, you do have to kind of. Kind of chill, right? Yeah. I mean, you gotta, you gotta get to a point where you can. You can function and take care of business without getting too caught up in the, in the scenario. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's my thought, but again, I wasn't there. Different department. So I don't, I don't, I don't judge any, Anything, any. Anything going on there. Too much. I mean, it didn't look great. Right. On film. It just. It obviously didn't, so. But not be there all. I'll hold my, My judgment.
- [40:52]
Steve Rinella
So how long did you stay with LA Sheriff?
- [40:55]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
So I was there from 88 to 96 or so and then transferred up to Washington State. I just didn't want to raise my kids down there anymore, you know, it's just. It's getting rough. It was getting rough when I lived in a. In a town, and forgive me, all you people from Palmdale, Lancaster, but I was living 90 miles one way from, from the station to my house. So, you know, when you got court every day, you got. I was working graveyard most of the time. You're getting off in the morning and then you got court, you're not coming home, you're sleeping in the bunk room. Then you're driving 89 miles home or, you know, whatever you decide to do. That was a lot. And then when you're starting to get gangsters roll up in your. In your driveway trying to okie doke the police. What I mean by okie doke is trying to noak them or, you know, not acknowledge them. Maybe they. They're trying to pretend like they live at your house, and you're getting woke up by someone trying to open your door and. And the deputies are hot pursuit behind him, or containment's in your yard. It's probably time to hold on.
- [42:01]
Guest
That happens randomly or that happened to.
- [42:03]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Me three times, so.
- [42:05]
Guest
But they're not because you were a police, not because you were a sheriff. It was just a coincidence, right?
- [42:10]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Whoa. Yeah, It's a different world. I mean, at the station I work, we average about 66 homicides A. A year. So it's a different environment, man, just different. But when that started happening, I mean, I'd get message on my mdt, oh, hey, we got a containment. A guy just jumped your fence in your backyard. My wife's home with little kids and.
- [42:32]
Steve Rinella
Nothing to do with you being a cop?
- [42:33]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Nothing to do with it. He just happened to pull his caper somewhere close. Right. I mean, and that was his route that he. That he took. So it wasn't the greatest area to live in. So I couldn't afford to live in some of the other. Other spots on a. On a single income. And so it was time. It was time. A great department, great people. Some of the best. My opinion, some of the best street cops there in this country, probably the world, you know, work there.
- [43:01]
Steve Rinella
What makes a good street cop?
- [43:03]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think a guy that can communicate well. Right. A guy that can, I think, also empathize, have compassion, but also be direct and can communicate. Can kind of relate and communicate well with. With the people in the community, you know, and that, that's. I think those are. Those are huge. And I think there's also kind of a sixth sense, right? Like, you know, being able to see and watch and learn and pay attention to the small details and listen to the small details. And then time in the. In the radio car, right? I mean, you just. You got to put in your time and. Yeah, I think those are some of the. Some of the factors.
- [43:44]
Steve Rinella
Did things chill out when you went to Washington state?
- [43:47]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
It was different. Yeah, yeah, it was different. A lot different. Cheaper live, you know, great department, great people. But, yeah, police work done different. Some of the laws are a little different. You know, the environment's different. Right.
- [44:06]
Guest
Were you in Seattle?
- [44:07]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
No, Southwest Washington. Yeah. Closer to Portland. So the whole environment's different.
- [44:13]
Chili
Was there Like a big, like, mental shift from, like, working down in LA to, like, working up. Yeah, just like, do your, like, combat mindset, change and kind of.
- [44:22]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm on a podcast, man, so I got to watch what I said. Okay. See, Crinka talked about this, right? I said, what are we going to talk about now? If we were sitting out of my place, I'd be telling you straight. You know, huge mental shift, right? Because, you know, if you're working a known gang area, known narcotics area, there's. There's things that are justifiable by the law that you can do in certain areas. Now, I'm talking way back in the 90s. I don't know how it is now, so. So forgive me, but, you know, you've made multiple arrests at this location. You know, there's known drug dealers in the area. There's all of these things that you can articulate that can help you deal with bad guys, right? You don't. You don't have that now. You're in a. You're in a town of where there's very few gangs, at least at the time. Drugs are everywhere. So. So those are. Those are around. But, yeah, you have to adjust your. You have to slow down your role and you have to calm down. Right? That's how I'd say it. And I. And I got told that. So, yeah.
- [45:29]
Corinne
Just a side question. When you were. When you went from Alaska to California and then to Washington, did you pursue your outdoor activities as a, you know, kind of release? Release 100. What you were doing, do you have time to do that?
- [45:47]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Washington's great for. I mean, they got some good hunting there. Grouse, I've. Elk hunted there, deer hunted, all those things. I. I liked hunting grouse. That was fun. I mean, it wasn't Kodiak, where. When. I think. When I. When I got there, I was really young, so I didn't start hunting right away, but I. Before I moved there, I'd lived for a short time in Idaho. So, you know, I started hunting with my dad when I could hold. He would tell me, when you're tall enough to hold on the belt loop with your finger of my. My belt area on my jeans, you can come with me. So I was like, all right, Pop. So. So I finally got to that point. It didn't take long because I'm pretty taller guy, right? So I'd hold on to the belt loop and roll with him. I had this old US army canvas backpack and. And I'd have the lunches in There and a BB gun and. And be rolling around. And for years, the story about a BB gun. I thought I actually killed this chucker one time with this BB gun. And I thought I'd heard my dad shoot, too, But I was pretty young, and I got this thing with my BB gun. It's like 40 yards away or something. My dad's like, oh, yeah, you smoked it. You did great. And for years, I believed I made this crazy shot. But as I got older, I realized he shot that doggone thing. Let me think. All these years I shot that chucker. Yeah. I think staying involved in. In outdoor stuff. California, it's mostly quail. I deer hunted a little bit. A lot of bird hunting's just a little more accessible in time, you know, it's so busy down there.
- [47:14]
Corinne
Did you. Did you ever come across roller pigeons?
- [47:17]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
No.
- [47:18]
Corinne
Okay, That's a new one.
- [47:22]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I know a lot of animals, too.
- [47:23]
Steve Rinella
I mean, like, it's street pit. Like, you know, dudes that are into street pigeons.
- [47:27]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Oh, right.
- [47:28]
Steve Rinella
But they train. Yeah, it's this whole.
- [47:29]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I got you.
- [47:30]
Steve Rinella
We were introduced. This, like, pigeon fanciers.
- [47:32]
Advertiser
Tyson.
- [47:33]
Steve Rinella
Mike Tyson.
- [47:33]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Oh, yeah.
- [47:34]
Steve Rinella
Okay.
- [47:35]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I didn't see. I saw a lot of pigeons in the city, but not.
- [47:40]
Steve Rinella
These are dudes that keep pet pigeons.
- [47:41]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, pigeons, chickens. Yeah, you'd be on calls and in the inner city and chickens and.
- [47:46]
Steve Rinella
Oh, fighting chickens.
- [47:47]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Running all over the place. The other crazy thing about being down there, which was I always thought this was odd, and some guys that. That are listening to this, that work down there can relate. But when I get together with the LAPD Southeast guys or some of these guys, we have some fun. Or. 77th Division, but they have these dogs, man. And I don't. I don't know a better term. So I hope this doesn't come off crazy, but, like, we just call them ghetto dogs, like inner city dogs, and they're just wild, but they know the city. Like. Like, I've literally watched a dog go up to a major street, look both ways and cross. Like, they just. They're. And they're out. They're all over the place.
- [48:30]
Steve Rinella
Yeah, it's wild.
- [48:32]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Or you'll see a homeless guy, which, you know, obviously, I feel, you know, I've got a heart for some of the homeless, but he cruising down with a shopping cart and about eight dogs behind him. But they're seasoned. They're seasoned vets, man. These dogs, I'm telling you, they just. They know the city. They know gunshots. I'm out. Like, I'm going, I'm gone. And this is wild. Yeah, it's just wild. Different world, man. Different world.
- [48:58]
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- [50:07]
Steve Rinella
So walk me through how you went from police work into the military and then how'd you become. How'd you become a reverend?
- [50:12]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, that's a wild one, man. I had to really s. I had to soften up. I had to. Moving to Washington helped me, helped me kind of soften.
- [50:19]
Steve Rinella
Uhhuh.
- [50:20]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
And I. Glory to the Lord, man. That's. I'll just be bold about that. I had to, I had to slow down, soften up. And it was good for me, just personally and family wise. But towards the end of my career, I knew I wanted to be done. As I got close to 20, I want to be done. And politics and garbage that goes on at some of these agencies and it's still happening. My heart, I hear it all the time from guys.
- [50:43]
Steve Rinella
It's.
- [50:43]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
It's unfortunate for these, these officers that are out there just grinding, you know, working holidays, facing the stuff they face, especially the last, you know, four years. Just the, the stuff they're having to deal with. But yeah. A guy hands me a book and it's called A table in my Presence. Written by Carrie Cash. It's about a marine. The title, sorry, A table in thy presence.
- [51:09]
Steve Rinella
A table in thy presence.
- [51:10]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right. It comes from a psalm. Right, okay. And. Navy chaplain assigned to the marines first push into Iraq. And he just talks about his ministry to these, these military folks and the dangers they faced and, and seeing some of the miracles that, that God did over there. And, and we, we could talk a lot about some of, some of the stuff, I'm sure we'll get to that. But it, it was amazing to me and I was being pulled in that direction. I was in seminary, working on a graduate degree and just doing stuff in the church and a lot of you stuff and man, it was just, it was an amazing book. And, and that, and, and he give it, he gives it to me. He says, hey man, I know you're thinking about going into full time ministry at some point. He goes, this might be a good fit with your background. You know, you, you kind of have this sort of, sort of tactical side again, many guys have done more than me and gotten more awards and all that. It's not about that. It just. His point was this might be a good fit in this, that environment. And of course it was the height of Iraq, a lot of stuff was going on and, and I thought, yeah, I don't know, maybe, maybe. So am I being called there? Right? Like, do I have this, this internal burning desire to go serve in that environment? Well, I'm going to be separated from my family, right? Five kids, I'll be separated. Wife won't be there at that point. Initially they were like 18 months with the army deployment with a two weeks R R. Then it went to 12 with two weeks, then it went to 12. Three at the mo, platform nine in theater with no R R. So that was kind of the cycle. So you've got to be, you know, mentally tough again. It's not, it's not me, it's, it's, I think the Lord preparing you, preparing your family, preparing your wife and kids for that separation. And, and, and so I took it to her and I don't know the time frame, a month or so after I've read the book and I say, what do you think about this as we're, you know, getting close here and, and, and she said, no, no way, like you're going to be gone. And I'm like, well, just, you know, pray about it and see. And so then about two weeks later, I remember coming home, my motor and we rode motorcycles year round up there. Police, police motors in the rain and the whole deal. And I'd usually go up and get warm, take a bath or something, you know, to heat up. And, and I went upstairs in the bathroom. This is a true story. And she's up there in tears and I'm like, what's going on? Yeah, you guys, you get me emotional. And she said this, she said, hey, if God wants you in a, a downrange environment or wherever he's calling you to. He's got us here and we stand behind you and I, I support it, man. That shocked me, you know, Kind of rocked, kind of rocked my world a little bit. And yeah, then they did make it easy. You know, you've got to have all this stuff to Gwyn as a chaplain, right? To serve in that way, you've got to be endorsed by a department of Department of Defense endorsing body. You've got to have so much ministry experience, you've got to be ordained, you've got to have your M. Div. You've got to, you know, pass your secret clearances, you got to be physically fit, your medical stuff, you know, all of those things. And, and then you got to get through basic Officer Leader course, which is at Jackson, South Carolina. So you've got a lot of that going on. So I remember going to Maps and I'd had a back surgery. I had hurt my, my back doing some jiu Jitsu stuff. And yeah, and I was trying to shrimp this guy off of me and, and blew a disc so. Because I was tired of him pounding on me and anyway blew the disc out. That's a whole nother story. But I had to get a waiver. So I remember going to Maps. I'm like the old guy in there, right? Like most chaplains are a little older because you got to go through all the schooling, you got to do all these things. But yeah, I'm the older guy in maps in mind where I won't run around in MEPs with all these young, 18, 19 year old guys doing all this stuff, you know, duck walk and all these different things. And, and I get to the end and everything went well. And he goes, he goes, hey.
- [55:37]
Steve Rinella
You.
- [55:38]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Got to get a waiver. I can't pass you. And I'm like, I remember looking at this guy and super nice guy, I think he was about 99 years old, but super nice guy. And, and he goes, guy. I'm like, what? And I said, hey, man, I just said, you don't understand, sir. I said, God's called me to do this. I need to. And he kind of looked puzzled and I swallowed. I don't, you know, you got to get a waiver. So eventually I got the waiver and then deployed pretty quick after that. Went to a cav squadron, cavalry unit. A lot of cool tradition in the Cav. And I was over there and the funny story, it's not funny, but cool part of the story is I went over there and my son in the meantime had Joined right out of high school. And he was also in the same Cav. He was in Charlie Troop. And we're both in Baghdad together for. For that whole time. So that was a little. That was a little wild.
- [56:39]
Guest
How. Together?
- [56:40]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, same squadron. He was housed a little ways away from me, not far. I was on Camp Liberty and he was down more on the south, kind of the victory complex. The whole thing's victory complex, but. And I don't know if Chile's been over there, but he was. If I took a little. I. I don't wanna. I gotta be careful how I say some of these terms here on. On a podcast, but they give us these little vehicles to drive, right? What the locals would drive. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. And so we called him. We had a certain name for him, but it would take me maybe 30 minutes to get over there, not too long to get to where he was. So, yeah, it was. That was wild. Was it? Was it easy?
- [57:27]
Chili
Like, I'm sure it wasn't. It's probably a rhetorical question, but, like, separating, you know, being a father in a combat environment, like, having your son, like, there, like, and knowing, probably being pretty well informed about, like, what's going on, like, what your son's going through and, like, versus, like, what you're going through. Like, how is that, like, experience, like.
- [57:46]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was different because, you know, so. So I was. So it's this. We use the term squadron in the cab, right? So in an infantry, it'd be a battalion. Right. And so you're the only chaplain, though, for that whole battalion or squadron. So on that deployment, we had about 600 and something soldiers. We weren't totally organic to. We weren't all calf. We had a group from Nebraska that helped supplement us and some other folks. So you're the only Chapman for 600 folks. But, you know, you got to care for all of them, right? That. That's the sheep that God has said, hey, here's the deal, Shane. I got this. This ain't about you. It's not your deal. Which I had to learn the hard way after we. We lost a couple guys right away. But, you know, this is about my plan. You just go take care of them. You just go love on them. Take care of your staff, your commander, you know, advise them, do your religious area analysis on. On, you know what. What is it? Sunnis, It Shia. And you work a little bit with the S2 on some of that stuff. How do we deal with Qurans? Where's the Muslim burial ground. You know, you kind of can work through that, that part of it. Advising the commander on the moral and ethical ramifications for decisions he's going to make or she's going to make in that, in, in your, in your ao, right. So you have that responsibility, but you also have a three pong responsibility, which is honor the dead, care for the wounded and nurture the living. So you've got that and earn the trust. Right. You had 600 soldiers. The worst, the worst thing I can hear when I go to, when I would go back then, when I was just a first lieutenant or captain is they get to a unit and you go, hey, who's, you know, I'm the new chaplain. Who was your child before they go? I don't know. Okay, that's the wrong answer. Or I don't really see him or her. Wrong answer. Right. So that means you don't. As a chaplain, I was probably, because of my, probably my background and just, just the different way I thought the best way to operate was be with them. Right? Take the similar risks, be with them. Get your butt out of your office. Don't need to read books all day, right? I know you got cubs and bubs and update briefs and counselings and sometimes memorials and caring for the wounded. You got all that. But you need to be out with the soldiers and that, that's the place to be. And I, I was willing to take a, take some ass chewing to, to do that because, you know, they lose you and I mean, you're a great target, right? It's a great target for the enemy to take out. The chaplain, he's the kind of the spiritual, even though it's not you necessarily leading, it's, it's God doing the work. But they see you as the spiritual leader or, and you don't have a gun, right? So you're going on all these missions. You got an assistant. It's an actual MOS that goes with you. Religious affairs specialists, they call them now. Back then it was chaplain assistant. So they're a enlisted person that's, that's armed, that stays with you. But you know, you've, you got a cross on your uniform, you've got a no gun, you got all the gear. You're a soldier, right? You're a soldier first, but that's a, that's a good target. Take, take him out, you know, especially.
- [61:14]
Guest
Where does that come from? Where's the decision to not be armed?
- [61:18]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Geneva Convention thing. Yeah, it's been around a long time I think Vietnam was, I think the last, and I could be wrong here, but I think the last war where they, they gave, you know, medics and chaplains guns. So yeah, no, no weapon. So. But that's where you're in the trust, right? To be, be with the, be with your folks. Because if they don't know you and they don't trust you, they're not going to come walk into your office and, and tell you what's bugging them or get the counseling their need or hey, you know, back home my wife's leaving me because I've been gone and she's cheating on so on. So and so. Or I'm messing around with this person or you know, whatever's going on in their life or I got suicidal ideations or you know, any of those things. You got to earn the trust, man. And the only way to do that is to get down in the trenches with them.
- [62:08]
Chili
And so, yeah, that's pretty common. You know, the eight years I spent like, I don't, I don't remember a single chaplain's name and but they would show up like, they would show up like when we had like suicides and like when we were in country and like, you know, injuries and then they treated it like a, like a check in the box. Like it was more like, hey, you know, your commander asked me to come down here and talk to you guys.
- [62:30]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
It's just like, yeah, you're the last.
- [62:32]
Chili
Person I want to talk to.
- [62:33]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [62:33]
Chili
Like, Right. Just because I don't know you.
- [62:35]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [62:35]
Chili
And I just find that like so like my, I wouldn't say my experience with chaplains if have been negative, but yeah, I just, it was, I didn't know anything right.
- [62:44]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Or non existent. Right. And that's the, and we listen, we got many, many good ones out there, many great ones. Totally. But you know, to me, you want to earn your, your bones or your stripes or whatever you want to call it, then you need to get out of your office and get out on missions with them and spend time with them. And yeah, that's, that's even if, even if, you know, sometimes the commander be like, I had some great commanders. One of them's, you know, still in is a two star now and just an awesome individual. He was an 05 at the time. And you know, I'd take a, I'd take a whooping from it from time to time, especially if you got, if I got stuck in Mamada or you know, Fallujah or something because of Red Air, you know. And he's like, hey, you need to get back here. I'm like, I'm stuck. You know, I can't, I can't. The convoy ain't rolling. But that, that's where you earn your trust. And then, then all of a sudden you're in your office as you keep going, as you're going on your, in your, in your tour, and you, you get there in the morning and, and you, you need to sleep much. I mean, I'd be up till midnight 1, and then you're up at 4 or whatever. But go to your, your update briefs and, you know, go to your, your sinks and stuff like that. Then you get to your office and there's eight people lined up outside your door. You know, that's when you know, okay, it's, it's starting to work. The trust is coming, right? Yeah.
- [64:05]
Steve Rinella
What will those eight people be there for?
- [64:07]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Oh, a variety of things. Some suicidal ideation, some, my girlfriend's breaking up with me, some divorce, some grandpa's sick, mom's sick. You know, the similar things that you'd see here, but it just gets heightened, gets intense, intensified being over there. Sometimes it could be they'd lost, you know, a friend yet a kia, and they want to work through that. We have special things we do for that, similar to what we do up here, which are like a Thames event or traumatic event management event, where we ask certain questions, give everybody a chance to kind of talk through what they saw or how they feel. It's not. I don't run them like a big, warm, fuzzy kumbaya thing, but it's a good time to sit down and just let some stuff out. You don't have to talk if you don't want to. We used to call them critical incident debriefs. So, yeah, it could be a variety of, variety of things. Chain of command issues, you know, what, whatever. I, I dealt with so many, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of counseling sessions on, on, on both deployments. But my first one, that, that one had, that one had a lot, a lot of stress, you know.
- [65:18]
Steve Rinella
Did you go into that work knowing that? I guess not knowing, but had it already. Was it already common knowledge at that time that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were going to spin off this generation of soldiers with, like, extraordinarily high suicide rates? Was that, Was that. Has that always been true of war?
- [65:45]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think it's gotten worse. You know, there was a lot when I was, when I was in, on my first, first deployment, and then when I went on active duty, up at joint base Lewis McChord. Similar, similar. It was, seemed to kind of continue to get increased. I mean, we were at war a long time, you know, and I think that contributed to it 100%.
- [66:08]
Steve Rinella
Like, what's, what, what do you feel is like, what is going on?
- [66:13]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Oh, man. Yeah. Again, you know, Chili and I could have this conversation and all of us off, off Mike here, but I think there is some generational things that could be going on. I know we do seem to have quite a few that are currently happening. Again, I'm just speaking them up for my own personal opinion. I'm not speaking on behalf of the army at all here, but from what I see in my lane, we, we do get quite a few that are not related to combat experience. And that's a puzzling factor. Is it, Is it contributing factors that they had prior to joining the military? Is it just the inability with some of the newer generation to cope with stress and cope with embracing the suck factors? You know, is it, is it some of that? And I, I don't think we've really put our finger on it. The definitely, you know, a lot of the combat related stuff. Because you think about this, man, here's, here's the way to look at it. So I remember coming home on. I was on leave for my first, I think it was my first one. And I was at a Starbucks and.
- [67:30]
Steve Rinella
In the U.S. in the U.S. yeah.
- [67:32]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
So I'm home for like two weeks and I go into Starbucks and I had just seen, you know, all this different, all this, all these, all this stuff. Lost a couple guys and, and wounded, you know, kids eating trash. Just different environments, Third world stuff. Well, you're in a Starbucks and the lady in front of me is blocking the line and complaining about her caramel on her latte, right? And you're kind of going, and Chili, I'm sure could. You're kind of thinking in your mind, okay, is this, this is really happening. And I just came and watched all this stuff. And here we are in America, spoiled, get whatever we want. We got menus for everything. You can choose whatever you want. A lot of stuff's free, depending on the programs. And you know, and I just came from a place where they're fighting on the street to dig out of a trash pile on the side of a road and they're trying to kill each other. And you know, there's a war going on and you're complaining that you want more caramel in your latte. And I just remember that hit me weird like Like I'm like, okay, do I, does my flesh take over and the chaplain go dark here and snatch this lady up and move her out of the line? Or do I just, you know. So I took some deep breaths and, and, or I went to get a haircut same time, same time I was home and, and the lady goes, oh, are you in the military? Yeah, I was just home for a couple weeks. So I didn't know there was, I didn't know we were still fighting over there, right. So you kind of go to a 10, like really well, then you come home. So let's say you take the average young, young guy, right? The young enlisted dude, they make the, they make the military work. The enlisted 100%, I'll say that right off the top. And they deserve a lot more than what they get, awards wise and everything else. These youngsters. Let's take guard or reserve? Let's take guard. All guards. All combat oriented units, right. They supplement the active force. 51% of the component in the, in the army at least is guard and reserve. So they, they're working at McDonald's. Let's say they join the guard, they go to an infantry unit or cav unit. Now he's on a 50 cal. He's rolling in an MRAP down some highway in Iraq or Afghanistan. He does his job. I don't know, maybe he smokes, maybe he's got a smoking bag, I don't know. But he's, he's over there, he's embracing the suck. He's a part of it. He's doing his party, serving his country. And he comes back and now he's back at McDonald's like a month after he gets home and someone comes in is complaining about you need to make burgers faster. I'm not saying he doesn't need to do that. Yeah, but he just got out of a, he was just operating a 50 for freaking, you know, nine months or whatever. And that's the hard part. It's that reintegration. You know, out in the wild the.
- [70:21]
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- [71:29]
Chili
I think like to. For your question earlier, like why does that happen? Like again personally from like what I've noticed in like suicide rates, I think it's just like lack of purpose. You go from such a high to such a low and like in such a dramatic way. Like I mean similarly 100. It's like when I got back like we flew out of Afghanistan. We're in Kuwait for a week and a half, two weeks almost. And Kuwait is still. I don't, I don't know if they considered it a combat environment but it was like a, it was like a hot. There was hostiles around there but like they had that base on in Kuwait. I think it was. I can't. I want Alia Sharif. That sounds familiar. I don't know. I can't remember what the base is called. But there was like a, there was a swimming pool there and then there was there. It's like a Starbucks. But it wasn't like a Starbucks. And like you had all these army guys like rolling around just like have is like completely oblivious. And then you fly out and then you know it's night time and you wake up and you're in Cherry Point, North Carolina and you're rolling through the gates and you like, you just, you're back in what we call Garrison. And then you're like oh it's so good to be home. And then like you go to a cookout or to a McDonald's and then some heifers just like bitching about her, her burger and you're just like what is going on right now? And like it just makes, it makes it makes you like irritable. And then like I think that stems into like you just, you have a lack of one responsibility. You don't feel like you matter. And like when a lot of guys get out and maybe this isn't directly related to combat. I think a lot of people get this way from just doing their day to day job stateside as well. But yeah, you just don't have a like a like a calling like you're not doing what you're. What you kind of like initially May have wanted to do Yo, I got it and then and that just like, you know, just a mental down spiral.
- [73:34]
Guest
Do you feel like they give you a heads up as to this? Because it's not like this is something new, right? No, they wrote songs about it in the 60s.
- [73:42]
Chili
Yeah.
- [73:43]
Guest
Like, did they give you a heads up at all? Like be prepared.
- [73:46]
Chili
They, they kind of tell you about like the culture shock and like, I wouldn't say it's like a formal setting. Like, it's like if you have your, your old timers and like your, your battle tested dudes that have did a few pumps, like, they kind of like, they'll like tell you about it. And like my brother, he was deployed with a unit called 3rd Battalion Ship Marines sang in Afghanistan 2010,011. And they got, I think they got messed up. Like this unit did like they lost a lot of people. And so. But when I joined, I have, I had a lot of his friends like kind of like mentor me. And when I told a few of them like, hey, like, I'm doing a pump, they're like, hey, like, everything's gonna be fine. Like they coached you. And like, and then one guy I remember, I won't say his name because I know he listens to the show and he doesn't want to be spotlighted, but he's just like, listen, man, it's gonna be, it's gonna be like really hard. Like when you get back, like you're gonna be around a lot of people that like don't understand and they like, they're gonna ask questions and no matter what you tell them, no matter how long you spend telling them that, like, they're just not gonna, they're not gonna get it. And he's like, you just gotta like roll with it. And so like, in a way, yeah, people will tell you, but not, not.
- [75:07]
Guest
The, not the army or the Marines themselves.
- [75:10]
Chili
Like, yeah, like they, they treat it as, I mean from what I noticed, like, they'll like, when you, when you get brought back, you have to do like a bunch of debriefing. So like before we could, like when we got back stateside, before we could go home, we had to go through like classes and like we, there's like mental tests and like computer test to make sure like you don't have any TBIs. I think we ended up talking to a chaps. Traumatic brain injuries.
- [75:35]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Got it.
- [75:36]
Chili
So like you took a test? We took a test before we left and then like when we got back, we took the exact same test and they like, compared results and just to see if we were like, copacetic and everything was kosher. So we did that. We talked to a chapstick.
- [75:54]
Steve Rinella
Chaps.
- [75:55]
Chili
Chaps, yeah, we always call them chaps.
- [75:58]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Not to be mistaken for. Yeah, leather chaps. Not.
- [76:01]
Chili
Not leather chaps. Yeah, but. But yeah, we, like. And then they. We would. You know, there was counselors and stuff, too, and. But like, it was more like, how you doing?
- [76:11]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Good.
- [76:12]
Chili
Like, do you feel like you want to. Like, they kind of. I feel like the military deals in extremes a lot. Do you feel like you need. You want to kill somebody? And like.
- [76:23]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
No.
- [76:24]
Chili
And like, so they kind of prepare you that.
- [76:26]
Steve Rinella
Get that right out of the way.
- [76:27]
Chili
Yeah, they're just like.
- [76:28]
Steve Rinella
Like, you're going to say yes.
- [76:30]
Chili
They're like, yeah. Like, do you feel like you have ptsd? And I'm like, I don't know. I've never done this before. Like, I don't know what that means and. Or what that looks like for myself. And so they. They kind of do it, but it's more of like a military has to do their due diligence so we don't get into trouble kind of thing.
- [76:47]
Steve Rinella
And that's what it felt like.
- [76:49]
Chili
That's what it felt like. I'm not saying that's what they're doing. I'm just saying, like, that's kind of how it felt.
- [76:53]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I mean, they'll, you know, we do D mob stuff in classes, like. Like Chili's talking about, and a lot of that stuff. You'll check out medically and do a bunch of those things. But I don't. I don't think that there's still the shock factor. You know, you haven't paid bills, right? You haven't driven a regular car or your car. I mean, if you were driving something, it was an armored vehicle or a. Or one of those other vehicles we were talking about earlier, or you've been flying around a helicopter, and now all of a sudden you're back and, you know, over. Over there, you don't want to be stuck in traffic, right? You're sitting duck. There's all these different things. Or you're driving super fast and swerving on some roads and, you know, making sure they're. They're not. They used to throw these things off the bridges. I can't remember if they're arcade threes or something. These. These hand grenades or IED stuff. So you, you know, you stay in certain sides of land, all those things. And now you're on the freeway and you're sitting in traffic and you're, like, trying to, you know, just little. Little things like that, you know, just trying to digest.
- [77:52]
Steve Rinella
Yeah.
- [77:52]
Chili
Your combat mindset does not go away. Like, as soon as you're back inside, like, you're looking at everything as, like, a threat.
- [77:58]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right. And it doesn't matter what your MOS was. It just if you were out there on missions and you were doing stuff, you know, even. Even from a child perspective, it's. It's difficult getting back. And as a dad, right, you haven't disciplined the kids, the wife. The wife has kind of set that all up and got a routine. And now you're coming into that routine and you're kind of blowing it up now, Right. You're kind of the new guy in the house, and you don't know what they've been through the whole time you've been gone. And sometimes when you find out later, which is often upsetting about. Maybe they cried at night, worried about your this, but the wife kept that from you because you didn't need that when you were downrange. There's all those little nuances, intimacy, right. You haven't been intimate for a year. So you've got to earn all these things. You got to work your way back into this. And that reintegration process can be. Can be difficult. So. So that's a contributing factor for sure with some of the stuff. And then. And then it's hard, right? It's hard losing your friends and, And. And your life changes. I think there's something. I'll say it like this. I think there's something that happens when you go to a combat zone. Regardless of whether you were a SEAL or an SF in there or infantry or whatever. Whatever your. Your job was, your unit was, there's something that is taken away from you. And I'm sure there's probably some guys that'll. That might disagree with me, but there is something that changes in you. And then I think you start to spend your time trying to get that back. And I don't know if that's a sense of innocence, you know, you just. The world is different, right? And then you become comfortable over there. You've learned how to kind of survive and you're comfortable and you're. You're in that environment. It stinks. Especially Afghanistan. I was in Kabul in it. Just. It's not. The air is real bad. Not good for you. That's why guys are getting all this burn pit stuff. Both, Both. Both countries. Iraq as well. But little kids are you're driving by and they're, they're doing this. They don't want you there. They're throwing rocks at the, at the, you know, a big hunk of concrete hitting the armored vehicle. Sounds like, you know, it's a problem. Oh, you know, different things like that. And now all of a sudden you're, you're back and you watch just the two year olds, you know, no diaper, no nothing, eating old rotten food out of the street. And that just, it's so. It. There's, I don't know, there's just something that, you know, I think you, I think you lose and that you're kind of constantly trying to get that back. Something changes in you. And I think the other thing that happens a lot with families is in particular, married couples or, or families as you get back. And you, you think you're the same, right? You the same dude. You're, you're, you're happy to be home, you're thankful, you're blessed. You're all those things. And then maybe someone in your family or a relative or a friend says, man, you've changed. Well, that's not what you want to hear, right? So it kind of hits you in the gut, like, wait a second, what do you mean I've changed? What do you mean by that?
- [81:09]
Steve Rinella
Mm.
- [81:10]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
And so then that starts a cycle. So there's a lot of, I think, a lot of factors. That's why I think it's good. I mean, you got to talk, you got to get outside, you've got to do those things. And, you know, you know, I wouldn't have said this to you 20 some years ago. You know, I was a. More of a hardened, you know, street cop from who. Who learned how to do that job in, In a, In a bad place, in a bad time. And I wouldn't have said you don't need counseling, whatever. Go to this bar, sure. I don't want to talk. I don't want to go there and hold hands and all this stuff. But I'll tell you what, man, I get a lot of those dudes coming through the door, the, the toughest guys from. And I'll. I'm telling you, I won't name names, but I mean, guys have been through CQB shootings within a few months of coming up there.
- [81:59]
Steve Rinella
What's that mean?
- [82:00]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
You know, close quarter, okay. Contact shot type stuff. SWAT call outs where they've been shot. I had a guy up shot four times. I mean, all kinds of guys in some tough stuff and, and they, they kind of have that wall up. I, I get it. I was that way that, you know, coming in and they don't know what we're going to talk about. They don't know who I am. They're trying to sniff it out. I told Corinne, for lack of a better term, just talking straight here. It's kind of like a couple of pit bulls sort of sniffing each other's butts, trying to figure out who's dominant, who's not. You know, that whole thing goes on. But then they realize, man, look, we're, we're just here to love you, man. We're here to give you something for your toolbox. We're going to give you an injection of some, some, some biblical stuff. You're going to get that. I'm not going to proselyte to you. I'm not going to beat you over the head with it, just like we don't do in the army. I'm not. We're not doing that. We're going to give you something that, that, that means more than just some of the other frivolous stuff that, that's out there in the world and in life. Right. That's what we're going to do. And we're going to dig in whenever you're ready. And I'm telling you 100 of the time, by Saturday, Sunday, you know, tears are shed, guys are opening up, guys are talking. But you gotta have the right mix of people there. You got to have. Everybody there has got to have some legit put in their work. Right. So there's that respect level. We, we just call it putting in work, but, and earning their trust and making sure it's a safe place to.
- [83:28]
Steve Rinella
Talk like the other guys want to, you know. Can you hold, can you hold that thought?
- [83:33]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. Hold it. Yeah.
- [83:34]
Steve Rinella
There's something I wanted to ask before.
- [83:36]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, go. Yeah.
- [83:36]
Steve Rinella
Before your specific work, there's something I'm not clear on.
- [83:39]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yep.
- [83:43]
Steve Rinella
When I was laying, we were talking about suicide.
- [83:45]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. Yeah.
- [83:45]
Steve Rinella
People having troubles, reintegrating. I know just from being friends with you, that, that, and you've mentioned it, you do a lot of work with police as well, and other first responders.
- [83:56]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [83:56]
Steve Rinella
Give me the, Give me the version that is happening with cops who do go home every night or they go home every few nights, whatever. Like, what is that, what is that version? Because I remember a buddy of mine, not even a cop, a buddy of mine, Greg, who's a firefighter, he told me a firefighter has a greater chance of dying by suicide than he has a dying in a fire.
- [84:21]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yep.
- [84:23]
Steve Rinella
I also said to Greg one time, kind of a dumb like question, I'm sure he hates here. And I said, how many dead people have you dealt with? He said, what do you mean? I said, like, how many, how many human bodies have you interacted with? He goes, hundreds, right?
- [84:40]
Advertiser
And you have to, like, there has.
- [84:41]
Steve Rinella
To be a connection there. Right? But from your perspective, like, it's not that you're reintegrating from another country, what is the reality that, that from your, from your work, what is the reality that these guys that are in American society, like, what becomes so hard for them?
- [84:58]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think it's the trauma exposure. You do 100%.
- [85:01]
Steve Rinella
Okay.
- [85:02]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
And it's the having to compartmentalize that stuff. And then I think as you get older, I actually think as you get older, it hits you harder. And that's just more personal experience. Your mortality comes into the site pick quicker, right? Starting to get older, you've seen all this stuff, maybe you've been able to block it out. You just keep rolling high op tempo, block it out. Next call, next call, next call. Baby not breathing. Okay. Had to deal with that. The baby didn't make it. Okay. You know, besides the fact that I, you know, you gave it mouth to mouth. Then you go to a fatal crash, just an accident, but kid gets run over. Then you're investigating that. Then you go to a shooting, okay. Drug rip off, okay. I can kind of, I can kind of compartmentalize that. Shouldn't have been messing with dope, right? But you compartmentalize and go to the next one, the next one, the next one, and it just stacks up. I like to use the bookshelf example, right. You take it, you put the book on the shelf behind you. You just keep doing that over the years and you're rolling. Career is great, everything's cool, family's cool. And then all of a sudden the bookshelf falls over. Yeah. Where are you going to put all that stuff? And it's all coming, kind of come coming down on you. Start thinking about things. You got maybe a little more time as you get older, you know, you're having kids and grandkids, whatever, and some of that stuff starts piling up on you. And I think that plays a role as well. And then those questions, maybe it's a little guilt and shame. Maybe it's, I wish I could have done more. Why didn't I do more? Or why is everybody killing each other? Oh, you know, these kind of things start, start coming up and Law enforcement, they lose folks too. I remember a young deputy getting, getting killed when I, early on when I was down working Lennox and we rolled leapfrog, tried to get over there, he was working out of Firestone Station and, and got shot up good. And, and I was just in, in patrol school with them. Good guy, great guy, you know, and it happened. It doesn't happen every single day necessarily where I was working, but it did happen enough to where it bothers you, you know, And I just think dealing with all that trauma and not having outlets and coping, healthy coping mechanisms, such as the outdoors, such as, you know, talking to people and talking to someone, I think spiritual fitness, spiritual resiliency is huge. And I put it this way, Steve, I think this is important. Where do we think about a carabiner, right? You guys probably use carabiners. Everybody's probably used one at some point in their life. Where is that? In order for that thing to work, right, you gotta screw it down. You gotta hook it to something stable, something you trust. So if we use that term and we say, okay, where's our hope? If our hope is the carabiner, what is it connected to? If it's to the world, it's going to hose you, it's going to screw you. If it's to yourself, you're going to fail yourself. If it's to other person, usually they're going to fail you at some point too. But if you've got some spiritual fitness. My personal opinion, if I hook that thing to the Lord and I study, I may not always understand why he does what he does. I may not always understand the, the reasons or the timing or whatever, you know, And I'm not, I'm not here to, to preach. I'm just sharing this with you from my own personal experience.
- [88:21]
Steve Rinella
You were invited here to talk about the world, man.
- [88:24]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I would rather hook that to have my hope hooked to something like that. The one and only dude that can, that can truly help me. And in the end, when I get, when I'm not taking none of this stuff with me, nothing's going with me, right? Nothing. Am I going to roll the dice with eternity or am I going to try to spend my time in my life on things that have eternal value, things that are kingdom oriented, to make a difference, be a difference maker in somebody else's life on behalf of the kingdom? Because I'm a sinner and jacked up just like the rest, right? We're just all trying to help and love each other and get through stuff. And so that's the question the challenge I always ask my. Where's my hope hooked to? Is she ain't trying to run his program and trying to control his life in every aspect. Sure. There's days where I do that, and then I realize, okay, this whole thing ain't up to me, but it's that faith. It's that, it's that spiritual fitness, and that's why it's even was taught even in the military, as some of the resiliency skills is. There's a value to that spiritual fitness or spiritual resiliency helping you overcome the challenges that you're going to face in your life. So it doesn't necessarily even have to be, you know, I'm going to tell you what I think is. Is a. Is a good way and what I believe. But if it's not, and it's a different, different faith group or. But you've got that spiritual resiliency, I think it matters, you know, I think it does. It. It can help you come, you know, get rid of this bookshelf piling up and having that spiritual strength. I think is. Is a big deal.
- [89:57]
Steve Rinella
When you, when you host a group of individuals, you're usually hosting a group of individuals who know each other. Is that true?
- [90:05]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Usually not in all cases, I'd say the majority of the time they know each other or of each other. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes with vets, it doesn't necessarily work that way, but, you know, depending on what they're involved with, we might have a team of vets come out that were all involved in some major stuff in Afghanistan or Iraq, and. And then they'll know each other.
- [90:27]
Steve Rinella
I don't want to, like, violate what happens.
- [90:29]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah.
- [90:30]
Steve Rinella
It's privately, you know, up the road from my house when you're doing your work. But like a group of people come and they're. They're using the. Those probably using those coping mechanisms that you're talking about. Meaning the coping mechanism might be like the bookshelf behind you. You know, they've been doing that. Or. Okay, right.
- [90:52]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Alcohol or substance abuse or sex addictions or affairs or wherever they're getting their adrenaline from. Yep.
- [91:00]
Steve Rinella
There's got to be more. Like, maybe at first you'd be like, well, let's cook some burgers and we'll shoot some bows. But I mean, how do you even. How does the conversation started?
- [91:12]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah.
- [91:12]
Steve Rinella
You know what I'm saying?
- [91:14]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
So the way I do it is I've got people I can trust in various agencies in various regions, for example, Dudes that I know are legit, that have been through the storms, you know, put in their work that people respect.
- [91:32]
Steve Rinella
Okay.
- [91:33]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
That are equally yoked with the mission. Make sense?
- [91:37]
Steve Rinella
No.
- [91:37]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Okay, so equally oak. They're on board, right? They're on board with our mission. They understand it, and they have access to some of these agencies, more so than I do because I'm up here.
- [91:46]
Steve Rinella
Oh, when you say they're yoked with the mission. Your mission?
- [91:49]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yes.
- [91:49]
Steve Rinella
Your mission of helping guys.
- [91:50]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right. Being equally oak. Right. So it's a kind of a theological term. Right. When you got two oxen, if they're not equally oak, they're not going to be able to plow. So everybody's equally oak and they're recruiting people to come up different struggles they've heard about or know about. So they're hitting them kind of off the side. No one's getting spotlighted. No one's getting. This is a very, like, in the trenches program. We don't care. We're not looking at. Okay. We need 200 people to come through this season. We have a steady take. We do small, intimate groups. So we can really make the most maximum impact in the time they're here. So the dynamic when they arrive. So they kind of have a little rough idea, but I'd say most of the time they don't really know how it's going to go. You got to earn their trust. And that starts the moment they get off the plane. Right. You know, my job. And they. Sometimes they don't realize I'm doing this, but my job is to size them up. And there's. They're going to size me up too. Figure out, okay, body language. What do they say, what do they wear and what. You know, and you're not judging. You're just trying to. You're trying to get to know them on a little more intimate level. Right. So you can better. So you can better help them.
- [92:56]
Steve Rinella
And they have to know that, like, these guys have to know you've been there.
- [93:00]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. Oh, yeah, they know. Yeah, they'll know. They can go to the website or they can ask around or they can talk to these guys.
- [93:04]
Steve Rinella
I mean, like, I'm sorry, Not. Not just knowledge, but psychologically, it matters that you've seen the things they've seen.
- [93:13]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think it matters for them. I think it matters. I think. And that goes back to that put in work statement. It's the same with vets, right? You'll. You'll be more comfortable with someone that's been downrange, maybe than someone that hasn't.
- [93:26]
Chili
Mm.
- [93:27]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Regardless of necessarily even what they did. But they. They embraced the suck. They were there. They were separated from their families. They were there.
- [93:33]
Steve Rinella
Yeah. Yeah.
- [93:34]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
So it's similar to that. They come in, man, there's nothing tough. We're gonna give them a tour. We're gonna talk about the schedule. We're gonna do introductions. And that's where I think the icebreakers come when we start doing introductions, you know, where do you work, you know, tell me about your family, those kind of things. But the funny part is, man, and I can't explain it any other way than this, as crazy as it sounds. And some of the listeners might be like, I don't know what he's talking about. But when they come through the door, first of all, when they make a decision to come up there, there's a sense of vulnerability that they have. They're showing up. They know at some point we're going to talk a little bit. They're not going to be forced to. But that's the deal. They're starting to recognize that they got to make some changes in their life. Right. And. And step up. So some of that's already going. And. And my belief is God's preparing their hearts well before they show up. I'm talking the toughest. Most of them don't even have a religious. They don't have to have that to show up there. That's not a requirement. It starts before they get here. They get here, they come in, we relax, we give tours, and then I just open it up and explain. Listen, man, I'm not here to. We're not judging. We're not. We're here to let you get some rest. Hopefully, you'll get something out of it. We'll go outside, we'll do some fun stuff, get to shoot some. Some bows, and. And. And we'll dig in a little bit. And it's a good time to do a self evaluation. And I just tell them straight, it's a good time to. A self evaluation and a gut check. I think it's healthy for us. And I can only speak from a man's perspective because, you know, we're. Most of it in here are men, but you got to gut check yourself from time to time and figure out, where am I? What's the purpose of this life? Where am I going? You know, what's going to happen when I go to die? You know, what does that look like? Is this over? Okay. You know, how am I. How am I with my relationships? How Am I with my kids, all of those things? How am I with my job, my peers? Those are all, all things that, that we talk about. But it's a good time. I think it's important to gut check yourself once in a while. What kind of a man am I? Right? What do I really stand for? Because you know, we're all going to get older and then that's going to be the question, right?
- [95:47]
Steve Rinella
And you invite people to ask these questions of themselves.
- [95:50]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll pose the question. And a lot of times sometimes guys will jump in. Sometimes they'll just listen. Intimately. Listen. Then, then when it starts, the trust is earned. It'll open up. They'll talk about an incident. Maybe it was on a SWAT call. Maybe, you know, one of the guys got killed and they're in a stick and they gotta step over him and keep fighting. Maybe they'll get into that. Maybe it's a family thing. Maybe it's something they feel comfortable to talk about, about a bad situation with a parent or, you know, whatever. It's a safe place for that. And there's a lot of, you know, so many people run by our place and, and drive up there. And I think if they knew the cool stuff that's going on down there, that's private, what goes on there stays there. But the, I think some of the ministry work and, and the massaging of hearts and loving on people, I think, I think they'd really be be shocked.
- [96:48]
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- [97:56]
Steve Rinella
You guys are incredibly low key.
- [97:58]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
We like it that way.
- [97:59]
Steve Rinella
In our neighborhood, no one, until I came on the show, in our neighborhood, no one Knows. No one knows.
- [98:06]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right?
- [98:06]
Steve Rinella
No one knows.
- [98:07]
Advertiser
You guys don't have.
- [98:08]
Steve Rinella
Your trucks aren't marked. There's no sign.
- [98:12]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
We've got one vehicle wrapped.
- [98:14]
Steve Rinella
Oh, it is?
- [98:14]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, it's on the. Oh, no, no.
- [98:15]
Steve Rinella
I'm sorry.
- [98:16]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah. You're just the one.
- [98:17]
Steve Rinella
But there's no.
- [98:18]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
About being low key.
- [98:19]
Steve Rinella
I'm always like, you know that place up there, it's like they.
- [98:21]
Advertiser
They run that nonprofit for first responders.
- [98:23]
Steve Rinella
And veterans, people like what? Yeah, I'm telling you right there, man, it's amazing.
- [98:27]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
It's about being low key. You won't see us in town drinking beers too much. You won't see us. You're not going to see us out pushing this and pushing that. We're just here to put in work. This is old school.
- [98:40]
Steve Rinella
How many guys. How many guys come. How many guys come through your place?
- [98:43]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
We get about 70. Sometimes a little more a season. Yep. And we usually run from May. Depends on the snow and kind of what's happening. But. Is he made at November 1st? Yep. And we reset. We usually go every other week. Reset, clean. Kind of for us to kind of, you know, for me mentally and emotionally, just. Also for me to kind of clear my head and my staff, my volunteers, give them a break. Because, you know, getting volunteers sometimes to come help out and teach stuff when it's sunny in Bozeman is. And it's on a weekend. Right. That can be tough, but. And then everything's fundraised for. And that. That gets tough, you know, but every year we seem to just get enough to keep. Keep rolling. And so I just keep the faith, man. I just keep. Keep going.
- [99:31]
Steve Rinella
How much is doing that work its own? You imagine, like you mentioned, like, having traumas. How much of that work does that to you and the people you work with?
- [99:43]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
You mean, what effects do we get from hearing.
- [99:46]
Steve Rinella
Yeah, I mean, does it wind up being. Does it wind up being kind of circular where you. Not that they lay it on you, but like, here you are, 70 people in a. In a. 70 people through the course of the summer lay on you all their horrific.
- [100:07]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right.
- [100:09]
Advertiser
Do you know what I mean?
- [100:09]
Steve Rinella
Does it. Does it feel burdensome or does it feel like it cleanses you in some way?
- [100:13]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think I'd be lying to you if it's not burdensome, because I think our natural reaction is to take on. To help people, to sometimes try to take those on. But it's not my deal. It's. It's not. It's not my caper. Right. It's God's I gotta. I gotta give it to him. I'm just there to facilitate that. And. And that's how. That's how I treat it. But your heart does break for some of them and you think a lot about them and you keep them on prayer list, you stay in contact, all those things. But to watch a. It, you know, it's good for me and I think it's good for my staff to hear this, to hear from them and to. To give back in that way. I mean, we're serving those that serve us, right? So it's super rewarding. Like, it fills the cup big time. And it definitely helps me personally. Brings back a lot of memories sometimes for me that I have to sort through afterwards. But I think it's circular in that way, in a positive. But I also think if you don't. If you don't deal with the way you should deal with it, then it can be too burdensome to you. Similar to downrange. Right? I try. When I first lost those two guys, and for whatever reason, I, you know, a lot of times I would stand when there was. If I wasn't going on mission, we had these secret briefing tents and the convoy would go out. We have convoy security was kind of our primary thing. Right. Which is sketchy because you're rolling down all the roads and. And we had. I was in there later at night, and I'll try to work through this here, but later, knives, one of my last ones. So I would go in this briefing tent for different chalks that were going out. I would sit in the back in the chair by the door. They give their secret brief on the routes. This one's black, this is red, whatever. And kind of go over the mission and how things are going to roll. Well, this was the last one of the night, and I had a close relationship with some of these guys. I won't get into why, but with kind of these main ones that were involved in this particular incident. So at the end, I go, chaplain. Chaplain stands up. Everybody stands up. You give him a pep talk. You give them some encouragement, man. Because let me tell you something, when you have an opportunity, I don't know of anything more humbling that's happened to me. Maybe birth, my kids and those kind of things. But my marriage. To look in the eyes of a young soldier who could be sucking on a Starbucks latte. But they're downrange, embracing the suck, serving their country, dirty and tired, and you get that opportunity to love on them. I don't know what's Better than that. And so give them some encouragement. Maybe read a psalm or a verse, pump them up, because you don't know who's not coming back from that deal. I mean, just don't. It's a roll of the dice, right? And that particular night, I had. For whatever reason, I usually will stand back by the door when they're done and they're leaving and just hug them, smack them on the shoulder, tell them I love them, and. And, you know, I'll see you soon or what, you know, tomorrow or whatever. Everything will be fine. Well, for whatever reason, that night, I was focused on these one truck and one. We call them trucks, but one group. So you got driver, TC and a gunner in that truck. And I hugged them, shook their hands, and. And I was having a lot of interactions with them for some other things going on and in a positive way. And. And I told them, they're like, hey, chaplain, we'll see you tomorrow. And I said, yeah. I said, you're gonna be fine. I prayed, everything's cool. You guys. You guys go out there, do your thing, man. We appreciate you serving the country. We love you. All those motivational things. And then two hours later, you know, I'm getting woke up at one in the morning or whatever and running to the tmc and. And they're hauling for me to get back there, and they're bringing one of them in on a gurney, and he's all blown up, and tourniquet it out, and. And then I don't see the other guys. And then now I got a medic hugging me, crying because we lost those two guys. We didn't know. I got company commanders and two. I mean, it's just kind of melee that I'm trying to deal with. But the one. The one young man, he asked me something that was interesting. And he said. He's laying on his gurney and he said. He said, well, first he says, hey, chaplain. I said, and he's still. Still alive today. Great. Great kid. And I said, hey, man, I should be asking you that. And then he realized what was happening and his legs were in bad shape. And I said. He asked me this. He said, why did God let this happen? And still to this day, that question haunts me. Haunts me from a few perspectives. I don't have the answer. One, two. He just. He was sizing it up and realized he's in trouble and where's his buddies? Because he didn't know, and I didn't have it. I didn't have anything. And I was thinking okay, Lord, you gotta give me something. So I just said, hey, listen, man, I don't know. I said, but God's got you. I got you, and I ain't gonna leave your side. And I give you my word, I'm not leaving your side. And so I stayed with him until they shipped him to Germany. But blood, then Germany. But I struggled with that, the first few days in particular. I mean, I still kind of struggle with it just because I had said something that I don't think I should say again. Did I give him a false sense of hope? Right.
- [105:35]
Steve Rinella
Yeah.
- [105:36]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Like maybe I shouldn't have said those things that way. So I had to change what I said. It's not up to me. It's just not my deal.
- [105:44]
Steve Rinella
Yeah, that's a good point.
- [105:45]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Who comes home and who's, you know, just not my deal? And so I. I had to. I had to change that up.
- [105:51]
Steve Rinella
Like, you gave him an assurance that wasn't yours to give.
- [105:54]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right? Right. Yep. And I. And that's the one that. I still remember it. Everything about that night to this day. And there was other wounded people and other things, but that was our first one. And I said those words, so I. I just as a learning lesson.
- [106:09]
Guest
How did you change your words, then? In the future?
- [106:12]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
No, you just. You just would say, hey, you guys are doing great work. You focus on the positives. Go out there, take care of business. We're with you. Whatever you need, you know, more encouraging. I wouldn't promise them, even though I didn't realize I was doing that till after mortality. Like, promising them survival. Yep. This is not my call, and so I had to change that up. And there's many other chaplains that have similar stories about, you're just trying to give them some encouragement, and that's why you're in there. But, you know, they've got to trust that chaplain when that chaplain's praying. They got to trust when he stand, you know, he stands up back there, she stands up. There's got to be a sense of, all right, we're going to be good. So there is some of that, but saying the words, I think is. Was. I just didn't do that anymore.
- [106:57]
Steve Rinella
Yeah.
- [106:58]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Figured out a different way.
- [106:59]
Steve Rinella
You know, I got a last question for you. Your. Your place where you work is just like, this gorgeous property.
- [107:08]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [107:08]
Steve Rinella
You guys got, like, a big creek. You got looking off at the mountains.
- [107:11]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [107:12]
Steve Rinella
Trout pond. And you got big meadows, and it's beautiful. Do you. Do you feel that? I mean, obviously you do, because you do your work There. Yeah, but what is that, what is that, like, natural environment, that natural beauty to be there? Is that, is that helpful in getting people to want to go or is it helpful in getting people to. Getting people to open up? You know, I mean, I think all three.
- [107:41]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
I think there's. It's a yes to all three, right? I think, I think one, people want to come to Montana. You know, they want to come up here and experience the beauty of it. I think they go on there and they see the place and they're like, you know, obviously enamored with that beauty. It's quiet, although you know, sometimes now with some of the traffic in the winter, but we don't run as many groups in winter, so. But it's quiet, it's away from the chaos, right? It's a. It's a good place to gut check yourself because you can focus on stuff and, and the beauty and. And you know, we've got a chef that comes in and cooks and make it comfortable. But yeah, the beauty is huge. And when they wake up and it's quiet and they're looking at trees and they're seeing animals, and a lot of times those moose, I don't know what it is about, they're fighting in the front yard and guys are like, you know, I had one fireman, Long beach fireman. Great group, man. Every person that's been through it just been fantastic. But we were sitting out there and we do like campfires at night, like a little bonfire and just kind of get to know each other more every night. And we had started early, so it's still light. And we look over and this fox is jumping just like you see on Nat Geo, right? He's jumping, he's snatching mice up and out of the grass. And I'm like, wow, that's cool to see that, you know. And this young guy was so pumped, he. He said, I'm gonna see how close I get. He gets his camera out and he's. And he must have got within 15 yards.
- [109:12]
Steve Rinella
Oh, really?
- [109:12]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Oh, yeah. And that sucker just kept doing it over and over. Those are those kind of things that really add to. Or bears will walk up. We've had bears. I've been doing a chapel service. So we do chapel service. It's optional. You don't have to go. I'm going to offer it to you, right? It's going to do a quick 10 minute, 15 minute good word of the day. If God needs communion, get communion as well. But 99% of the people come to those We've only had maybe one or two that weren't of the same faith group, and that's fine. And they were cool about it. And this happened a few different times, but one time in particular, I'm doing the service, and all of a sudden everybody's. I lose everybody, and I'm like. I look out and this black bird is looking through the window. He's watching. He's watching me. And he's watching every. Of course, everybody mag. You know, went. Right then that sucker got. He was comfortable. He was too comfy. He cruises around the backside and he comes up to the front door. I mean, just like he lived in the joint. I've had a lot of bear issues, as you know. As you know, I had a lot of bear problems over there. Yeah. Scared off cubs at night. Used to get in my cans, drag a can 40 yards into the brush, tearing up my barbecues on the back patio. I mean, just. Yeah, a lot of bear issues, but, yeah, that's it. I think that the. The natural beauty, the wildlife, I think the Montana feels all those things are. Play a role in calming people down. Yeah, 100%.
- [110:39]
Steve Rinella
So if.
- [110:39]
Advertiser
If.
- [110:40]
Steve Rinella
If people out there, first responders, service members, like, if there's a group that feels that coming to see you might be good for them, like, how do they proceed? And if people that are outside of that, that are just listeners that want to help what you guys do, how do they. How do they proceed?
- [111:01]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, the best way is they go to the website. All the stuff's on the. On the website. If they've got a group they want to put together, there's apps they can fill out on there or they can.
- [111:09]
Steve Rinella
Go to task Force Heroes.
- [111:11]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Taskforceheroes.org Yep. Donations, the same way they put it.
- [111:17]
Steve Rinella
But a group of guys, a group of active, like, active people can go and say, hey, you know, me and some of my colleagues or whatever.
- [111:24]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yep.
- [111:25]
Steve Rinella
Would like to check on the possibility of coming out.
- [111:28]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yep. They could do it that way. They could. There's an email through there that comes directly to me that they can say, I got seven guys. Or like I said, we try to. Try to make it intimate and smaller. We fill up real quick. Oh, do you? And we fill up real fast. And we're dealing with some maintenance issues right now that we're. We're fixing because we had a water leak over there and some other stuff. But, yeah, that's the. That's the best way to. Best way to do it.
- [111:51]
Steve Rinella
And how about people that want to support you and Help.
- [111:53]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
That's another best way. Send an email, make a connection with me. I mean, they can get a hold of you. We're right there. We see each other quite a bit. So any of those ways that, that's the biggest, you know, it's 100 free for these, these folks and you know, flying them and feeding them and cleaning and getting them here and all that. It's operation costs are fairly steep at a place like that. Yep. But we want to make it a once in a lifetime experience for them. Good food, cooking, wild game. A lot of them never tried elk or deer or turkey, any of those things. I mean it's, it's been, it's been amazing. I mean one time we, we got a turkey right there on the property and smoked it up and, and they got to eat fresh turkey, man. It was great.
- [112:39]
Corinne
Do you guys deal with your nuisance bears on the property too?
- [112:43]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
We deal with those. Yeah. We have dealt successfully a few times with, with, with bears. 1404 pounder, 4 over 400 man, 16 year old bear, the big sucker. And I sent that picture, that big fatty we had. Yeah. You were like his, his response was, man, you like a lot of good bear grease out of that. A lot of bear grease, dude.
- [113:07]
Steve Rinella
That area, when those choke cherries. Oh, down on the, you know, they.
- [113:11]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Tear those, I mean they're all over.
- [113:12]
Steve Rinella
The, they're like all over the place, man. Then they just vanish, you know. Yeah.
- [113:16]
Corinne
I never harvested a bear maybe. Yeah, well, nuisance when you have, they.
- [113:22]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Stand up and they'll, you know, they reach up and pull them down and they'll just suck them all right off the. Yeah, right off the limb, man.
- [113:30]
Steve Rinella
That whole bottom end of that canyon. When the choke cherries come in, it's just bears all over. Choke cherries go away. Bears are all gone.
- [113:35]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [113:36]
Steve Rinella
They take off and then those wax wings show up. Clean up choke cherries and it's the end of the whole program.
- [113:41]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yep.
- [113:41]
Steve Rinella
But it's a little rush, it's a little flurry of activity in September.
- [113:45]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yep. And wounded deer from getting hit and.
- [113:48]
Steve Rinella
Yeah, we get a lot of that.
- [113:50]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
You know, my wife running out going, you gotta kill that deer. I'm thinking, well, I got one tag here. I, you know, it's a little spike or something with three legs. She's like, you got to do something. So we get a lot of that stuff. So. Yeah. Any more other questions you had, man?
- [114:07]
Steve Rinella
No, man, I'm glad you came on. And like I said, I just have, you know, it's Been nice to. It's been nice to meet you. And then just the little bits I've picked up about the work you did, I was just real impressed by it, man. And then one time you invited me up to meet a couple of your guys.
- [114:22]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [114:22]
Steve Rinella
And I could just tell going there, you know, as short as I was there, I could tell going there, I just could tell you had, like, a very special program going on. Yeah, it's very tell that the guys that were there were. I don't know, man. I could.
- [114:34]
Advertiser
I could see why they're there.
- [114:36]
Steve Rinella
I could see what they were getting out of it. Know what I mean?
- [114:38]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
It was just.
- [114:38]
Steve Rinella
You create like a really. Like a. I don't know, man, like a You. You just. In that little bit of exposure, I had, you create this kind of amazing bubble for people, man.
- [114:47]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [114:48]
Steve Rinella
That I could picture being hard people.
- [114:50]
Advertiser
To get to talk.
- [114:51]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Right. I appreciate that. And it's not just me. It's. I got a great team. I got a great board of directors. They're all either former or veterans that are still serving or active military folks or. You know, I got a lot of LAPD guys on there and guys from different places in the country and great board and great volunteers. Man, we. We couldn't do it without all them. All them folks. And. And then, you know, when we moved up here, we just went all in all our furniture, all our. You know, I'm. I'm not saying that toot my heart. I'm just saying it was a huge commitment. We didn't know anybody really, in Montana, and we got here about almost eight years ago, and. And we're just like, okay, Lord, you got to do your. Do your work here. And we filled up that first season in like, three months. And it's just. Just amazing stuff. So. So my wife, for sure, and. And kids that. That sacrificed a lot to make it happen. So we'll just keep on pushing forward. And I appreciate my relationship with you, man. No, just being real. It's. It's been. It's been good. And I mean, this guy helped me for hours try to find my Hebrew inscripted wedding band. I lost it.
- [115:57]
Steve Rinella
We were out there, the metal detector, me and my kids, and, man, we found. You don't realize how many 22 casings are out in the world, I'm sure. You know, it's funny. I was actually one of the camera guys I'm working with on this History Channel show. He filmed, like, he worked for a long time on a metal detecting show.
- [116:15]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Oh, man. We Gotta find it.
- [116:17]
Steve Rinella
Oh, I was picking his brain about that. And he was saying that like these dudes that host that show would have no problem mopping up that ring. But, man, we were, we got beat. Yeah. I'm not like a metal detector, but me and my kids were out there and we were up, we dug up more garbage. That's a nice looking place for so much garbage. Subsurface shotgun shells, everything. It's like, God, people quit trying to find a ring here, man.
- [116:41]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Israel, like handmade in Israel. And my wife's got the matching one and I'm like, oh, man.
- [116:46]
Steve Rinella
Maybe someone who's out there's a real metal detecting enthusiast. It's like, you know. So Shane walked out of his house.
- [116:53]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [116:54]
Steve Rinella
He generally walks along the side of his driveway. You walked 300 yards?
- [116:58]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah, well, I left the pond. We were, you know, we used the pond just to let guys, most of them never fly fish, so just to get them to cast and catch something, just so they get the field before we go to the creek or we go off site. And I, I kept getting hooked with stuff and you know, just trying to get. Sometimes guys will get snagged. You know, a guy's got something in his ear or something and so you're working through that. So I took it off, I put in my pocket, walked around that palm back of the house. And then I went to take it out in my room and I had a hole in my pocket. Yeah. And I'm like, so somewhere.
- [117:30]
Steve Rinella
Yeah, it's like, it's like a tent. It's like not 300 yards long and it's maybe a 10 foot wide, 20 foot wide path.
- [117:37]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [117:37]
Steve Rinella
But it thwarted us if, you know.
- [117:40]
Corinne
If you, if you think you could find it. If you are a metal detecting enthusiast and a professional, you can write us at the Meat eater podcast@themeater.com to offer your services.
- [117:52]
Steve Rinella
And if you find it, we'll put together. I'm just going to throw this out there. If you find that ring, we'll put together a, A generous care package. Yeah, but you got.
- [118:03]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Yeah.
- [118:03]
Steve Rinella
Say we're going to vet you first. We're going to vet you.
- [118:06]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Definitely. Bet you. Yeah.
- [118:10]
Steve Rinella
You got to send us your metal, detective.
- [118:13]
Corinne
Right. Exactly. You need a CV as long as chains, a prop.
- [118:17]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Property owner. Check in.
- [118:21]
Steve Rinella
Reverend Shane Yates, former cop, current military guy, chaps.
- [118:31]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
Well, I appreciate it, man.
- [118:32]
Advertiser
It's CEO of Task Force Heroes.
- [118:33]
Steve Rinella
Thanks for coming out, man.
- [118:34]
Rev. Dr. Shane Yates
It's humbling. I appreciate you guys, each of you, you know, it really is what we do. Is humbling and I'm just blessed to be able to do it. And and blessed. Blessed for all the blessings I've gotten in my life and amidst all my own struggles and own stuff. So privilege to come on. So thanks for the time.
- [118:53]
Steve Rinella
Thank you. Thank you.
- [119:21]
Advertiser
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