Ep. 701: MeatEater Radio Live! The Dinosaur Highway and 100 Humans v. 1 Gorilla

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast - Episode 701 Summary: "MeatEater Radio Live! The Dinosaur Highway and 100 Humans v. 1 Gorilla"

Release Date: May 9, 2025

Welcome to Episode 701 of The MeatEater Podcast, hosted by Spencer Newarth and featuring co-hosts Ryan Callahan and Randall Williams. This live episode, broadcasted from MeatEater HQ in Bozeman at 11 AM Mountain Time, dives into a diverse array of outdoor topics, blending engaging discussions, expert interviews, and lively segments that cater to hunting enthusiasts, nature lovers, and conservation advocates alike.

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1. Settling the Internet Debate: 100 Humans vs. 1 Gorilla

The episode kicks off with a heated discussion addressing a viral internet debate: Can 100 humans defeat a single gorilla in a fight to the death? Spencer poses the question to Randall, who brings a humorous yet analytical perspective.

Key Points:

• Ryan's Expertise: Ryan shares his deep affinity for great apes, recounting personal experiences at various zoos, though humorously admitting he can't recall which ones exactly. At [02:35], he states, "I've been running FHF Binyo harnesses for over a decade," highlighting his passion and knowledge.

• Physical Analysis: The co-hosts delve into the physical advantages of gorillas, discussing their size, strength, and formidable bite force. Ryan notes at [05:12], "It's a five and a half feet tall, 400 pounds... their jaw muscles exert unbelievable pressure."

• Human Stamina and Numbers: Spencer and Ryan argue that while a single gorilla is overwhelmingly powerful, human numbers and stamina could tilt the balance over time. Spencer muses at [05:35], "I think the debate should be what's the number where it actually gets competitive? My guess is like 10 to 15."

• Conclusion: The trio concludes that while 100 humans could eventually overpower a gorilla, a more competitive number might be around 20 humans factoring in potential injuries and tactical disadvantages.

Notable Quote:

• Spencer Newarth [05:35]: "I think the debate should be what's the number where it actually gets competitive? My guess is like 10 to 15."

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2. Interview with Duncan Murdoch: Discovering the Dinosaur Highway

In a groundbreaking segment, Spencer interviews Dr. Duncan Murdoch, a paleontologist from the University of Oxford Museum of Natural History, about the recent discovery of the Dinosaur Highway in England.

Key Points:

• Discovery Process: Duncan explains at [12:43] how over 200 dinosaur footprints were uncovered in a limestone quarry near Oxford during routine extraction processes. The prints belong to at least five individual dinosaurs from the Middle Jurassic period, approximately 166 million years ago.

• Track Details: The tracks are sizable, with most being oval-shaped around 3 feet long and 2 feet wide, stretching over a 150-meter long trail. These were primarily left by large, long-necked herbivorous dinosaurs akin to Diplodocus or Brontosaurus, with occasional theropod footprints from meat-eating Megalosaurus.

• Environmental Reconstruction: Duncan discusses how these tracks provide a snapshot of a lagoon environment from the Jurassic era, highlighting the coexistence and possible interactions between herbivores and predators.

• Conservation and Access: Despite the active quarrying ongoing, Duncan reassures that the prints are protected and plans are underway to make the site virtually accessible through a 3D model, alongside public exhibits at the Museum of Natural History in Oxford.

Notable Quote:

• Duncan Murdoch [19:57]: "Each one of those footprints is a single moment in the life of an extinct animal. So we get this amazing, unique window into that very moment when that animal put that foot in that exact location."

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3. Turkey Report: Hunting Updates from Seth Morris, Max Barda, and Tony Peterson

The episode transitions into the Turkey Report, featuring updates from hunters Seth Morris, Max Barda, and Tony Peterson across various regions.

Key Highlights:

• Montana’s Struggle: Max Barda shares his tough weekend in Region 1, Montana, where turkey movements have been unusually sluggish, leading to challenging hunting conditions. At [25:26], he mentions, "It's been a tough weekend of hunting. The birds are the most hemmed up that I've seen so far this season."

• Tennessee’s Transitional Phase: Tony Peterson reports from Central Tennessee, observing that turkeys are shifting their feeding habits towards bugs and grains as hens begin nesting. He advises hunters to stay persistent, stating at [26:00], "If you stick it out and work some ground, you'll find a bird that wants to gobble."

• Minnesota’s Observations: Alex Fogg from Minnesota notes a similar transition, with hen turkeys becoming more callable and pairing their hunting strategy with understanding local wildlife behaviors.

Notable Quote:

• Max Barda [25:45]: "I killed this one because I finally was able to call the hens in and he came in with the hens... my wife Kelsey, who's with us too, she killed a bird yesterday morning."

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4. One Minute Fishing: Seth Morris at Meat Eater HQ Pond

In the One Minute Fishing segment, Seth Morris attempts to reel in a catch within a short timeframe to secure a $500 donation to Walleyes Unlimited.

Highlights:

• Pond Conditions: Seth assesses the pond's conditions, noting good water clarity and flowing current, though fellow anglers have reported minimal catches.

• Fishing Attempt: Despite strategic casting towards likely fish-holding areas, Seth's efforts at [40:48] prove unsuccessful as no fish bite within the allotted minute.

• Humorous Banter: The segment is filled with light-hearted teasing among hosts about fishing techniques and pond conditions, reinforcing the camaraderie and community spirit of the show.

Notable Moment:

• Spencer [42:09]: "Maybe we need to stock that pond. Maybe that's what we've got to do."

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5. Show and Tell: Sharing Personal Gear and Stories

The Show and Tell segment allows hosts and guests to showcase personal items, sparking conversations around gear and memorable experiences.

Highlights:

• Spencer's Dinosaur Track: Spencer presents a 200-million-year-old Dilophosaurus track, obtained from a fossil dealer. He marvels at its historical significance and unique origin story, linking it back to discussions on dinosaur behavior and paleontology.

• Ryan's Vintage Gear: Ryan shares a rare, expired freeze-dried meal—a Cincinnati-style chili backpacker's pantry item from 2016—symbolizing enduring gear treasured for special occasions, even if never used.

• Randall's Birkenstock Crocs: Randall introduces his lightweight, roto-molded Birkenstock-style crocs, praising their comfort and durability, while humorously fielding questions about their breathability.

Notable Quote:

• Ryan Callahan [45:19]: "They fed our audio into ChatGPT and then had it make something that sounded like that. And so this is so bad, it's making me sort of rethink my own abilities as a writer."

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6. Interview with Alex Fogg: Creating the World's Largest Artificial Reef

Concluding the episode, Spencer interviews Alex Fogg, the Okaloosa County Natural Resources chief in Florida, about an ambitious project to transform a retired ocean liner into the world's largest artificial reef.

Key Points:

• Project Overview: Alex details the acquisition of the SS United States, a 1950s ocean liner, purchased for $1 million—the scrap value—by Okaloosa County. The goal is to sink the ship at a depth of 180 feet to serve as a thriving artificial reef, fostering marine life and boosting local fishing and diving activities.

• Environmental Preparations: Extensive cleaning and removal of hazardous materials like asbestos, lead, and fuel oil are underway to ensure environmental safety before deployment. This process is expected to take about a year.

• Deployment Process: Alex describes the sinking mechanism—controlled flooding through exterior holes—and the immediate attraction of bait fish, with a full ecosystem developing over one to two years.

• Community Impact: The artificial reef is anticipated to become a hotspot for fisheries, enhancing sportsmen opportunities while also serving as a dive site attracting enthusiasts worldwide.

Notable Quote:

• Alex Fogg [62:29]: "It's such a large vessel being placed in a location where there's really no reef material, natural or artificial, existing at this time. So it's going to be an oasis."

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7. Listener Feedback and Final Banter

Engaging with their audience, Spencer and the hosts address listener comments and questions, covering topics from public land policies to gear preferences. The conversation is lively, interspersed with humor and good-natured ribbing, exemplifying the show's community-driven spirit.

Highlights:

• Public Lands Amendment: Discussion on the late-night amendment to sell public lands, critiquing the lack of transparency and public input. Randall emphasizes the importance of contacting representatives to oppose the move, urging listeners to take action against the sale of up to 650,000 acres without clear benefits.

• Gear Preferences: Followers’ questions about vintage gear spark conversations about the merits of old versus new equipment, with hosts sharing personal favorites like Dutch ovens, knives, and classic fishing boats.

• Upcoming Events: Randall mentions leading trivia at the BHA Rendezvous and participating in a public lands rally, encouraging listeners to join and support conservation efforts.

Notable Quote:

• Randall Williams [35:38]: "What do you guys want to do is virtually visit this site... We have casts, replicas of the prints on display at the moment."

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Conclusion

Episode 701 of The MeatEater Podcast masterfully intertwines engaging debates, expert insights, and community interactions, offering a comprehensive look into the world of outdoor adventures, conservation, and hunting. From the prehistoric trails of the Dinosaur Highway to contemporary conservation battles and the thrilling yet humorous musings on human versus animal strength, the episode delivers valuable content for both seasoned outdoor enthusiasts and newcomers alike.

Final Notable Quote:

• Ryan Callahan [73:15]: "So, whoever that was, point well taken."

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For more detailed insights and to stay updated on future episodes, visit MeatEater.com or follow The MeatEater Podcast Network on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Spencer Newarth]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Steve Rinella]

I've been running FHF Binyo harnesses for over a decade, and for the last couple years it has been the FOB because it's quiet, it's tough, and it just plain works. And it's easy to work. I've worn it in damn near every environment you can think of. Desert, mountains, snow, heat. And it has never let me down. Now they made it even better. They got new colors, more modularity, and like everything FHF makes, it's built right here in the usa. This is gear you can count on season after season. Pick up yours now@fhf gear.com.

[Randall Williams]

Smell us now, lady.

[Spencer Newarth]

Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia.

[Ryan Callahan]

Meat Eater Podcast.

[Spencer Newarth]

Welcome to Meat Eater radio live. It's 11am Mountain Time. That's noon o' clock for our friends in Quincy, illinois on Thursday, May 8th. And we're live from Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman. I'm your host, Spencer Newarth, joined today by Ryan Callahan and Randall Williams. On today's show, we'll interview Duncan Murdoch about the dinosaur highway that was just discovered in England, followed by a turkey report from the Meat Eater crew. Then we've got one minute fishing with Seth Morris. After that we'll do show and tell. And finally, we'll interview Alex Fogg about constructing the world's largest artificial reef. Now, in case you don't think this is a live show, we just got breaking news that there's a new pope that's been elected. What's your insight on this, Randall? White smoke from.

[Ryan Callahan]

I just know. White smoke, that's all. I watched Steve watch Conclave on a plane last week.

[Phil]

So.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, that's about. Yeah, all right. But. But we're going to settle an Internet debate that's taken the Internet by storm here recently. Every now and then, some stupid thing on the Internet achieves exit velocity and makes it out into the real world. Like is a hot dog a sandwich or the hawk to a girl? It happened again this week. And that was. Can 100 humans beat a gorilla? A singular gorilla, in a fight to the death?

[Ryan Callahan]

Yes.

[Spencer Newarth]

I have strong feelings about this. Randall, what do you think? Randall has come today with a notepad that I believe contains notes on this. On this subject.

[Ryan Callahan]

I do. I. I don't think it's a very interesting question. I think the numbers, the sheer numbers and the fatigue factor. But I'd like to just use this moment to bolster that opinion with my qualifications as an all around great ape enthusiast. Phil, will you pull up Exhibit one, please. Whenever I'm at a zoo, I like to go visit the great apes. On the left is Guerrilla World at Cincinnati Zoo on the right. I don't even know which zoo I was at there. That was 2022.

[Spencer Newarth]

Wow.

[Ryan Callahan]

And I didn't go back to check my travel calendar, but as you can see there, it says, test your gorilla iq. And I did rather well that day.

[Spencer Newarth]

How do we know?

[Ryan Callahan]

You just have to trust me.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay. Been to so many zoos and checked out so many apes that he doesn't even know what zoo he was at.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yes. Phil, if you'll pull up the next slide, please. This is a bizarre image. One of my favorite sort of freak discoveries in the course of my dissertation research. This is an ad for the Ruger.44 Magnum carbine. It's like the.44 Magnum version of a 1022. And they thought the best way to demonstrate the utility of this is with an image of a man and a gorilla that he saw.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's amazing.

[Ryan Callahan]

Somewhere in Central Africa. I just took a picture of it with my phone, and I've never had a chance to display it to the world. So here it is just. We used to live in a very weird place, Phil. Exhibit three here. Oh. So this is a sequence of photos taken at the Cincinnati Zoo. That's not my child, but just a random child, a good friend's child. We're taking a photo with this friend here, and suddenly. If only we'd been filming video, because suddenly he charged us and he slapped the glass in what might be the most frightening sudden surprise of my life. It sounded like someone just shot a gun next to my head.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, we're learning. Randall is indeed a subject matter expert.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yes. I've also read Gorillas in the Mist. And then to prep for this segment, I. I didn't have time to watch the movie Congo, so I downloaded it on Kindle and I read 67% of it.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Ryan Callahan]

I shared some of my thoughts with Phil, but it is one of our culture's greatest meditations on the gorilla's capacity for violence. So I didn't really get anything out of that. And then I brought this. This T shirt.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Ryan Callahan]

This is from the San Diego.

[Spencer Newarth]

This is all part of answering the question on if 100 humans could beat a gorilla in a fight.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah. And I just think a gorilla, you know, it's five and a half feet tall, 400 pounds. It's got a powerful sagittal crest that allows its jaw muscles to exert sort of unbelievable pressure on any sort of thing that finds its way into its mouth. But, yeah, I don't think he can do it. I think you just get tired.

[Spencer Newarth]

I fully agree. I don't think it's even. It wouldn't even be close to a fair fight. 100 is such a big number.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

100 humans.

[Ryan Callahan]

It's not fun.

[Spencer Newarth]

I think the debate should be what's the number where it actually gets competitive? My guess is like 10 to 15. Do you think a dozen humans.

[Ryan Callahan]

No.

[Spencer Newarth]

You think a gorilla would win?

[Seth Morris]

I was gonna say 20.

[Ryan Callahan]

Figure the reach. A gorilla's got a wingspan of about eight feet. I mean, you look at chimps. I mean, chimps just tear people apart.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yes. I think what would be on our side is I can't imagine they have great stamina also. But my problem with it would be I can't identify a weak point on a gorilla.

[Seth Morris]

No.

[Spencer Newarth]

Where do you go? You just gotta punch them in the head over and over.

[Ryan Callahan]

And they have extremely thick skulls. Their brain case is not nearly as large as ours, so there's a lot more bone around it. And they don't have, you know, in a fight, you're always talking about reach girls got us. And they don't have chins, so they can't have a, you know, like a box.

[Randall Williams]

Hard to find the button.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Spencer Newarth]

Do they. Do they have exposed testicles? Like, that's probably not a weak point either for them. If you were. If you were really trying to think.

[Ryan Callahan]

Try to make sure the world.

[Randall Williams]

They're exposed. They're just tiny.

[Ryan Callahan]

Sorry. Yeah, I just didn't think it was that interesting with questions. So I just wrote down a bunch of gorilla stuff about my history. Oh, I also forgot to mention, when I was. I would have been nine years old, my parents adopted a zoo baby. You know, like, adopting. It's an eastern lowland gorilla. Female. Adopted it for you at the Cincinnati Zoo.

[Spencer Newarth]

Right. Or was it for them?

[Ryan Callahan]

For me, it was a birthday or Christmas gift. That's how much I love gorillas. I also spent a good deal of my younger years walking around on my knuckles. And I can okay today pretty effectively.

[Spencer Newarth]

Cal, any.

[Ryan Callahan]

The clip.

[Spencer Newarth]

Any thoughts on 100 humans versus a gorilla in a fight to the death?

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, I thought the MO was great. Probably underrated by cinephiles.

[Spencer Newarth]

Amy, you agree?

[Randall Williams]

Amy, all that stuff. Cargo.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

I don't know, but by the time I saw a lot of those movies, they had already seemed kind of like, outdated to me. And not in a. Not in a great way, but yeah, they're entertaining for sure.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Ryan Callahan]

The biggest shock to me from revisiting the book is that it's set in 1979. So it's just, you read it as a period piece and then you remember that he wrote it in 1980 and you think, God, it's actually very cutting edge.

[Randall Williams]

I think where anybody doing battle with a gorilla would really fall short is there's not a lot of trained fighting sports where you're counting on somebody biting you. Right. I mean, that's a big part of the.

[Ryan Callahan]

As a discipline.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, yeah. Now, as. As this debate got heated up online, there was a tweet that went viral by someone. Phil is going to pull it up here. They built out their roster of 100 people of who they would want to fight the gorilla. Here's some folks that were on that list. This, this tweet got 16 million views. 50 cent in his prime. Turtle Man. I love Turtleman. The Undertaker. The wrestler, of course. Nikola Jokic. His brothers. Jason Momoa, a random high school defensive coordinator slash history teacher. And at number 11 in this tweet was Steve Rinella. Steve Rinella made the roster one ahead of Saquon Barkley.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, I don't think he has the frame for it.

[Randall Williams]

No, no.

[Spencer Newarth]

Would you guys want Steve on your, your team?

[Randall Williams]

This is just an ode to Steve. It's not based on fighting ability.

[Ryan Callahan]

Only if Steve was charged with wearing it down in some sort of.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Ryan Callahan]

Chase through hilly country.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, sure, yeah, yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Like if there was a debate at the beginning that Steve could engage the gorilla on. Yeah, yeah. Possibly using the communication device and hand signals from the movie Congo.

[Ryan Callahan]

It's not in the book. In the book, they're just doing old fashioned American Sign language. That's a element of authenticity to it.

[Randall Williams]

Test of time.

[Spencer Newarth]

When I lived back in South Dakota, I played town team baseball, which is like from 18 years old up until whenever you retire. Some guys play into their 40s.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, that's beautiful.

[Spencer Newarth]

There was a fan who would come to every game and if he'd see you around town, he'd maybe throw you a compliment. He'd say, oh, Spencer, looking strong today. And I always liked that. That's a very nice compliment to give to another man. I gave that to Steve one day. I said, steve looking strong today. And he didn't care for it. He said, what, do you want to arm wrestle me or what? So, you know, maybe wonder what Freud.

[Randall Williams]

Would say about that.

[Spencer Newarth]

If the gorilla can get Steve worked up, maybe Steve would be acceptable on this roster as number 11 in the gorilla fighting, cage match. All right, we. We've determined that 100 humans would easily dominate that gorilla, and we think the number's closer to, like, 20.

[Seth Morris]

Well, sorry, I know you're headed for a segue here, Spencer. I'm gonna throw it off completely. Do you think how many humans would we lose in the process?

[Ryan Callahan]

Oh, I thought about this today.

[Spencer Newarth]

A dozen?

[Ryan Callahan]

No, I think 30.

[Spencer Newarth]

30? You think he'd rip through 30?

[Randall Williams]

I think you lose 30% of that roster at game time. Like, they just go, no, no, no.

[Ryan Callahan]

Not the initial 10 minutes. I just don't. I can't imagine what.

[Spencer Newarth]

I think it depends if the fighting happens like a Jackie Chan movie where the warriors come at them one on one and they, like, wait their turn. Yeah, we'll lose 30 for sure. But we could probably suffocate this thing with, like, 15 people.

[Ryan Callahan]

The strength is just. I don't think he can't.

[Spencer Newarth]

He can't punch 15 people at once.

[Ryan Callahan]

I think he could.

[Randall Williams]

I think he could just physically tear them apart.

[Ryan Callahan]

I think he could huck us.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah. I'm just saying, I don't care who you are. Like, you get in the. In the cage with a gorilla, you. There's a large part of that roster that's just going to be like, you know what? Not worth it. Yeah, not going to happen.

[Spencer Newarth]

And Google says that their testicles and penis are quite hidden and small as far as primates go, so we can't count on that.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's part of one of the issues with their genetic depth. Small wieners.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, moving on. Joining us on the line first is Duncan Murdoch, a paleontologist from the University of Oxford Museum of Natural History. He's here to talk about the dinosaur highway that was just discovered in England. Duncan, welcome to the show.

[Duncan Murdoch]

Hello. Morning. How are you?

[Spencer Newarth]

We're good. First thing, Duncan, tell us how these 200 tracks that came to be known as the dinosaur highway were discovered.

[Duncan Murdoch]

Yeah, absolutely. So there's a quarry in the center of England near the city of Oxford, where I am, where they're removing limestone to crush it up to use as gravel. And when they were removing that, they were slowly scraping off a layer of clay. And the bucket on the. On the digger felt a series of little bumps, so they thought, oh, that's strange. So they called us in from the museum to have a look at them, and we verified that they were, in fact, dinosaur footprints. And then we mounted an excavation to uncover the whole site. And, yeah, we found over 200 individual prints from probably five different individual animals.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's wonderful. Now describe how big the tracks are and how long this highway is.

[Duncan Murdoch]

So most of them are or one kind of dinosaur and they form these oval shapes that are about 3ft long by about 2ft wide and about 9 inches deep, something like that. But we see literally hundreds of these prints and they go, the longest trackway is at least 150 meters long. So it's a huge area that's crisscrossed with all these individual tracks and how.

[Spencer Newarth]

Old are the tracks and what kind of dinosaurs made them.

[Duncan Murdoch]

So the surface is from the middle part of the Jurassic period, which is about 166 million years ago. At the time it would have been a kind of lagoon near the edge of a continent. We see two different shape footprints. So most of them like the one you're seeing on the screen are quite rare. But most of them are these kind of oval shapes that would have been from a large bodied, four legged, long necked dinosaur. Think something like a Diplodocus or Brontosaurus. Yeah, just like, like that one there on, on the screen. And then we rarely see with these three toed prints, if you, if you've ever seen footprints of a wading bird on a beach, you see these, these three toed prints. We see exactly that. And they were from a very different kind of animal, this two legged, carnivorous, meat eating theropod dinosaur called Megalosaurus.

[Spencer Newarth]

And does this area in England have a history of dinosaur discovery?

[Duncan Murdoch]

Yeah, absolutely. In fact the first dinosaur ever named Megalosaurus, the fossils came from a little village called Stones Field just a few miles from where we find these footprints. In 1824 it was first named so just over 200 years ago. So dinosaur science itself actually started here in Oxfordshire and it was really exciting that 200 years later was still finding evidence about these animals in the form of their footprints in this quarry.

[Spencer Newarth]

And how long was the excavation process and what did that look like?

[Duncan Murdoch]

Okay, so we first discovered these prints a couple of years ago and we uncovered a small number of them, realized it was a much bigger undertaking. So we put together a team between the University of Oxford and, and the University of Birmingham as myself, my colleague Dr. Emma Nichols, my colleagues, Professor Kirsty Edgar, Professor Richard Butler in Birmingham. And we then put together a team of about 100 people over the course of a week where we went out every day most of the time we were painstakingly removing a layer of clay that fills and covers these prints to uncover the hard limestone underneath. So carefully removing it with trowels and then sponging out the clay, eventually uncovering the whole site. Then there's a process of documentation where we took literally tens of thousands of photographs to try and capture every single print, as well as flying drones to capture the entire site and image the whole thing before it's then reburied.

[Spencer Newarth]

Now you said that this area was a lagoon 166 million years ago. Talk more about what England as a whole looked like at that period and how that's different from today.

[Duncan Murdoch]

Yeah, that's a really good question. So around, say 166 million years ago, in the middle of the Jurassic, the continents as we know them today was starting to form. So there used to be this huge continent called Pangea, where pretty much all the continental land masses were together through the early part of the Jurassic. And these continents were breaking apart. So things like the Atlantic Ocean were forming. This created lots of volcanism, lots of volcanoes erupting in the rifting, and it created these shallow inland seaways that were forming in as this continent was breaking apart. So England at the time in the middle Jurassic was underneath one of these shallow seaways. So if you imagine something like the Florida Keys today, or the Bahamas bank, where you have these shallow seas with these beautiful clear waters with white sand being deposited, and nearby you have rivers washing material into kind of in mangrove swamps, producing these lagoons behind where you get these sheltered environments. And it's in one of these lagoon environments that these dinosaurs were walking along, walking along what would have been a coastline 166 million years ago.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, so there were multiple dinosaurs who created this dinosaur highway. Do you think those dinosaurs interacted or was, you know, these separated by potentially days or years?

[Duncan Murdoch]

Yeah. So the conditions needed to form these prints are very rare. So you need the mud to be just right. If you have mud that's too wet, then when you pull your foot out, it's just going to fill back in that hole. If the mud's too dry, then even a 10 ton animal like Cetiosaurus can't make a lasting impression. So we think these surfaces were only just right for probably a matter of weeks, maybe months, certainly within one season. So what we do find is lots of, most of the prints are from the same kind of dinosaur, but we find lots of different sizes. So there's potential evidence that these animals were moving in herds, showing a kind of herding behavior with different individuals of different ages moving around. Then the, the theropod prints, these meat eating megalosaurus, they cross where we see These larger herbivorous animals walking along. So although we don't see any direct interaction between them, it's pretty safe to assume that if you're a big meat eating dinosaur, you're going to look for big plant eating dinosaurs to prey upon. So there's a potential that we have interactions between predator and prey, but we can't be sure because all we're seeing are these, these individual prints. But what we can say is each one of those footprints is a single moment in the life of an extinct animal. So we get this, this amazing, unique window into, into that very moment when that animal put that foot in that exact location and you can go and put your foot in exactly the same place. It's absolutely thrilling to do.

[Spencer Newarth]

So from that brief window, what sorts of things can paleontologists learn?

[Duncan Murdoch]

So we're able to do things like reconstruct the environment that these animals are living in. So as well as the dinosaur footprints, we find smaller fossils, we find seashells, we find bits of wood. We can also do things like work out how fast these animals might have been moving. So most of them seem to be moving at a kind of average human walking pace. So none of them are going very, very fast. And we can estimate body sizes from the spacing of the prints within. The biggest individuals are probably about 16 meters long for the herbivores and about 8 or 9 meters for the carnivores. And we can also observe these interactions between species. So we know that these two different species of dinosaur were in the same place at roughly the same time. So we can start to build a more complex picture of the whole environment that they lived in.

[Randall Williams]

Duncan, this is a active quarry.

[Duncan Murdoch]

That's right.

[Randall Williams]

What's the fate of these tracks?

[Duncan Murdoch]

Yeah, so it's still an active quarry, they're still extracting limestone. It's worth saying that if they hadn't been quarrying this stone, we would have never found the prints. Absolutely. Because of this quarrying activity that we're able to do this work. And they don't extract the stone that the prints are in. It's no good, it's too soft, the material. So they aren't being damaged or destroyed in any way by the action of the quarry.

[Randall Williams]

Have you ever heard of the Meat Eater Land Access Initiative where we provide access to more outdoor activity on, on land here in the States, primarily. What are the chances that we don't need one of the fancy three toed ones, but one of the oval tracks getting shipped over here so we can auction it off for public Access.

[Duncan Murdoch]

So there's a, there's a few problems. One is if you try and actually cut out the, the prints, they basically fall apart. You can only really see them in the field. So right now they're not accessible and they're getting recovered with clay to actually protect them. That's the best thing to do. But we're working very closely with the quarry and Natural England, who are the body that oversee these kinds of things here in the UK for plans for potential future access. What you can do though is you can virtually visit this site. So we've, we've created a 3D model of the whole area and not every single individual print. We're currently working up publishing that and we're going to make that publicly available to anyone in the world to download. So you can virtually visit. So hopefully that will, yeah, satisfy. The other thing you can do is come to Oxford, come to the Museum of Natural History and we have casts, replicas of the, of the prints on display at the moment. So if any of your, your listeners are in the uk, please do come to Oxford. You can get up close and personal with a replica of the print.

[Spencer Newarth]

Very exciting stuff. Thank you for joining us, Duncan, and congrats on that discovery.

[Duncan Murdoch]

No problem. Thank you very much.

[Randall Williams]

I liked how there is a clear convergence of trails there. Oh yeah, like the ancient version of a whitetail hunter had just post up right there.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's right, yeah, that's. You'd call that a pinch point. Right here along this lagoon we've got the shallow water friends, obviously dinosaurs like crossing this spot.

[Randall Williams]

That's all. Wait, that was sweet.

[Steve Rinella]

Hey guys, it's Steve Rinella here. When I was a little kid, my, my number one piece of hunting equipment was my mom who would always drive us around to go hunting. She would take me out to check my traps. Never asked anything in return. Very, very supportive. When I knew that I wanted to find a, to get a life in the outdoor industry or become a writer, she had my back. Never made any other suggestions otherwise and just helped me push and pursue for what I wanted and helped me maximize the amount of time I got to spend out hunting, fishing, trapping. Now this Mother's Day, if you love your ma like I love mine, you can show her that you see the hard work and dedication that she put in and raising you. From now until Mother's Day, First Light is offering free shipping on all women's products. Whether she's chasing down adventure just out in the field, First Light's gear is built to keep up, give her gear that works as hard as she does. Head to firstlight.com today and take advantage of free shipping. That's first light. F I r s t L-I-T-E.com for Mother's Day savings.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, next up is the turkey report.

[Ryan Callahan]

Oh, geez.

[Spencer Newarth]

There's sound for this.

[Seth Morris]

I don't have a sound for the turkey report.

[Spencer Newarth]

I'm sorry. I thought I heard a sound. Last week I played.

[Seth Morris]

I played this. Here we go.

[Ryan Callahan]

Everybody's looking for the turkey report.

[Seth Morris]

Randall's is better today.

[Spencer Newarth]

We've got updates from Seth Morris, Max Barda, and Tony Peterson. Take it away, Phil.

[Max Barda]

All right, Seth Morris here coming at you from Region 1 in Montana with your weekly turkey report. It's been a tough weekend of hunting. The birds are the most hemmed up that I've seen so far this season. It's even tough to get a bird to break around that, you know, 10 to two time period, which is usually some good killing hours. But I've been seeing gobblers with hens all day long. They're just not leaving them. And so that's made the, the hunting real tough. But kind of gotta do what you can. Get a bird on the ground.

[Ryan Callahan]

Sneaky, sneaky.

[Max Barda]

I killed this one because I finally was able to call the hens in and he came in with the hens, but I couldn't get him to break from the hen. So the only way I could do it was getting the hens to come in. And my wife Kelsey, who's with us too, she killed a bird yesterday morning. So.

[Spencer Newarth]

Goodness.

[Max Barda]

That's your report. Good luck out there.

[Tony Peterson]

Hey, guys, Max Barda here. Central Tennessee hunt report. Things are weird right now. It's the first week of May. I feel like the birds have gone past their prime time breeding cycle and they're kind of on the down slope of things. Birds are gobbling on the roost a couple times, but not much. And then, yeah, I feel like once they hit the ground and they're just not too keen on coming into hang calls. So, geez, yeah, things are tough, but I feel like if you stick it out and work some ground, you'll find a bird that wants to gobble. You only need one gobble and like you're in the game. So that's what I did here. This bird came about 10:30 and yeah, it was, it was a great hunt. And yeah, it's been raining the last couple days too, so I don't know if that's got the goblin all mixed up or Anything like that, so. But yeah, beautiful day, happy camper, happy hunter. Spring's a beautiful thing.

[Alex Fogg]

Hey everyone, Tony Peterson here with a little turkey report. I just got back from Kansas, had an amazing hunt down there in public land. Killed a bird. And I just spent today, you know, drying out some beards, drying out some tail fans from my daughters have killed a few birds. I've killed a few in different states. The hunting has been really good, but it has been kind of a weird year and I'm starting to see a little transition right now where a lot of these birds are switching to eating a lot of bugs and the hens are starting to nest. My whole drive home from Kansas all the way back here to Minnesota, there were lone hens all over the place in the afternoon. And when I see that, I don't know if you can hear this or not, but there's a whole bunch of frogs calling in my backyard pond. This is the time where if you've been dealing with hen up birds, which a lot of us have, should get really callable now, maybe not right off the roost yet. They might fly down strut for those hens for a while, but those hens are going to eat some bugs, they're going to scratch for some grain, whatever, eat some fresh greenery, they're going to lay down and these toms are going to start cruising. And we always think that we're going to hit that, you know, a little bit earlier this far north, you know, down south's a different story. But right now is the time where if you have, if you have the ability to hunt all day and work some setups through and fire up that gobbler sometime in the midday or in the, in toward the evening. This is the time when it matters a lot and it can get really good. So I think, I think they're going to be super callable from here for the next, I don't know, 10 days or so, probably two weeks maybe. So it's a good time to be out there. Good luck.

[Spencer Newarth]

Wow, three big time turkey killers there in Tony, Max and Seth. We got a global show today. We got dinosaur tracks from the uk, Turkey reports from Middle Tennessee, got everything.

[Randall Williams]

I was dying to ask our dino guy if he was a feather guy too. Like, are they just big turkeys?

[Ryan Callahan]

I was dying to actually ask him if the long neck dinosaurs he was referring to are sauropods, just to test my knowledge, but I didn't want to sound like an idiot.

[Spencer Newarth]

So you boys both had a chance to ask him those questions.

[Randall Williams]

I didn't think it was so many questions lined up every time.

[Ryan Callahan]

The University of Oxford. I was shaking in my chair.

[Seth Morris]

What's your favorite dinosaur?

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, you know what? That would have been a good place.

[Randall Williams]

Do you think they could run fast?

[Spencer Newarth]

I'm sad.

[Seth Morris]

I. Do you think 100 Velociraptors could kill a gorilla?

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, I could use all of Timmy's bad dinosaur jokes from another Michael Crichton joint. Jurassic Park. Do you think you saw us?

[Spencer Newarth]

I wasn't on last week's episode, but I heard Phil give himself an invite to Randall's turkey hunt. Are you aware of this Randall?

[Ryan Callahan]

Vaguely. I've tried to invite Phil to turkey hunts that other people have invited me on. There isn't really a Randall turkey hunt.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, that's the thing. I wasn't inviting myself to any sort of pre planned hunt. I said, you know, I think it'd be fun if Randall wanted to go turkey hunting, that I joined him. I didn't invite myself, Spencer. That was some rude phrasing and I won't stand for it.

[Spencer Newarth]

Phil, you should invite yourself. Exactly what you should.

[Ryan Callahan]

I just tried to invite myself on the Max's turkey hunting calendar for next week. So if. If Max fits me in. Phil, clear your calendar.

[Seth Morris]

All right, so you'll invite me to Max's turkey hunt and we just won't tell Max?

[Ryan Callahan]

No, no, I'll tell Max, but he's pretty easy going.

[Seth Morris]

Okay, that'd be wonderful. That sounds like a blast.

[Ryan Callahan]

I just like the vibe of Max's video. It sort of started out, I wasn't sure where it was going, but these turkey guys love the reveal where they can just twist their body.

[Seth Morris]

It does get a little corny.

[Ryan Callahan]

Change the alter, the angle of the camera.

[Randall Williams]

It's pretty tough. Not a lot of guys could do it.

[Seth Morris]

Brent did the same thing last night.

[Randall Williams]

I wouldn't even go out to, but this guy made a mistake.

[Ryan Callahan]

See, a guy. A guy of Max's size can pull that off with the turkey, but not like a bull moose. I'd like to just see how large of an animal I can hide with my torso in a video.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, Phil did not invite himself. But that's me telling Phil he should invite himself. That's your way into a turkey hunt. All right, we're halfway through the show. Let's get a break for some listener feedback. What do you got?

[Ryan Callahan]

Good stuff?

[Randall Williams]

Sure.

[Seth Morris]

Let's. Let's start out with the big one. Jody says, can Cal expand on the late night amendment to sell public lands in the House budget package.

[Ryan Callahan]

And in parentheses it says in under two minutes, I think.

[Randall Williams]

Okay, yeah. Okay. Very, very quickly. Reconciliation is super scary because there is a process, a public process that allows for the sale of small parcels of public land to address all the needs that these people are saying they're trying to address, such as public housing infrastructure, restraints on rural communities, etc. In reconciliation, they're trying to push this through under the normal process. Sorry to back up one second. Under the normal process, which would be like FlitFu and Flip MA, lots of acronyms in the government game, we can deal with giving up some parcels of public land because that cash then goes towards the purchase of lands of greater value for the American people. So it's kind of built on a win win system. The municipality that's constrained gets a little more space for water projects or housing in this case, and we, the American people, get a quote, unquote, better chunk of ground. It's a square, fair deal. This reconciliation bs, if I'm being frank, is not going to ding our national debt at all. There's absolutely no guidelines that say this is how it's going to address the sale of land, the staking of our federally managed public lands with a big for sale sign. There's no guidelines that say this is how it's going to alleviate housing or provide any value for the American people.

[Spencer Newarth]

Add some context, Kyle, and that sale.

[Randall Williams]

Will go into the treasury. The dollars from that sale will go into the treasury. There's no public process. Go ahead, Spencer.

[Spencer Newarth]

Explain what happened last night at midnight as to why this is being brought up.

[Randall Williams]

Basically, there's a very short timeline to get this budget through. Memorial Day weekend is like the goal, the stated goal from the outset. So folks are starting to scramble, and when you're scrambling, there's opportunities to slide in. Things say, oh, yeah, yeah, we'll totally give you what you want, but here's this thing that you got to sign off on. And so at 11:30 last night, Arizona and Utah slid in this provision for the sale of public lands. Right now, there's no context as to how many acres that is, but we're hearing numbers as high as 650,000 acres, which is something that you can't do under the flip my process. And we don't know how these lands have been selected, what they're trying to address. All we know is this is a major opportunity for folks that want to get this done. And by and large, the vast majority of the American public do not agree with this. So this is a Very small group of interests being prioritized over we the American people and nobody should stand for this. You need to get on the horns with your senators and representatives in the House. And I've been doing this all morning and all last night. It's not that hard. But you need to send your emails, your phone calls and talk to staffers and say, hey, I do not like where this is headed.

[Spencer Newarth]

And for more on this, we've got coverage on the Meat eater dot com. We just published an article. Republicans vote to sell public land in Midnight amendment. You'll get a fuller story there.

[Randall Williams]

And it's like we're selling things that can make us money. And when you're trying to dig yourself out of debt, that's not what you do.

[Spencer Newarth]

Phil, what else you got?

[Seth Morris]

McKenna says let's go Oklahoma City. What do you think about that, Spencer?

[Spencer Newarth]

It was just an. An ass whooping of epic proportions last night.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, that Mitchell follows up with. What do the Nuggets need to do to make the fix from last night? Rough loss.

[Spencer Newarth]

I'll be real quick. Michael Porter Jr. Is not good enough. He's. He's way too hurt. Jamal Murray is. Has not second fiddle lately. He's good enough to be a third fiddle. He's. He's not been good enough to be a second fiddle. And we have too shallow of a bench. So a lot of issues that can't be fixed.

[Randall Williams]

What sport is this?

[Spencer Newarth]

Basketball. You didn't see Nicola Jokic to go God mode. That's.

[Ryan Callahan]

And big Westbrook energy.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's right. Russell Westbrook has been phenomenal. Good on Russ.

[Ryan Callahan]

Fun.

[Spencer Newarth]

Anything else, Phil?

[Seth Morris]

From Dan Pooper, real name. A question for the lads. Do you guys have a vintage piece of gear you prefer or think is superior to modern or current?

[Ryan Callahan]

It's DB Pooper.

[Max Barda]

Oh, that's good.

[Randall Williams]

That is good.

[Ryan Callahan]

When I was at the. When I was at the Blazers game, I don't remember the guy's initials. One of the. One of the rotation guys for the. For the Blazers. His initials were D.B. and when he'd score, they'd go D.B. hooper. And they had like a sketch, you know, of DB Cooper, but it was the player's face in there. I thought it was very clever.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, yeah, because he landed not. Not too far from.

[Ryan Callahan]

Back to Mr. Pooper here.

[Spencer Newarth]

Cal, any vintage piece of gear that.

[Randall Williams]

You really, really like, Knives, hatchets, axes, all of those things can be multiple lifetime pieces of gear. I think everybody's got something that they're attached to in that lineup. Also can't Be just cannot be a good pair of wool pants for out outdoor activities.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. Knife is a good one. Dutch oven, too.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, yeah. There you go. Cast iron.

[Spencer Newarth]

Mm. Got an old Dutch oven that I really love. And that's the Dutch oven I'll own for the rest of my life, I think. Randall, anything to add?

[Ryan Callahan]

I think the closest thing I have to a vintage piece of gear that easily comes to mind is just an old ass Grumman canoe. Just a timeless piece.

[Randall Williams]

Yep.

[Ryan Callahan]

Craigslist score. Yeah, it will serve you well, Phil.

[Spencer Newarth]

Let's do one more and then we're going to move on.

[Randall Williams]

Sure.

[Seth Morris]

Because we got Cal in the room. Not that you two are, you know, Flying taco Moose says he's making or they're making gruyere stuffed bread today. Any suggestions for what dish to pair it with? I'd only catch guessing wild game. We're talking here.

[Randall Williams]

Whoa, man.

[Seth Morris]

Stinky.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, that's stinky cheese.

[Seth Morris]

Any. Any sort of. Any. Any sort of a pairing you'd.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, medium. I mean, just medium rare. Cut against the grain meat. That sounds delicious. Maybe a little fresh onion on there. Like that too.

[Spencer Newarth]

There you go.

[Randall Williams]

Make it extra stinky.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right. Our next segment is one minute fishing. Do I feel lucky?

[Ryan Callahan]

Well, do you, punk?

[Spencer Newarth]

Go ahead, make my cast. One Minute Fishing is where we go live to someone who's fishing and they have one minute to catch fish. And if they're successful, we'll make a 500 donation to a conservation group. So this week, our angler is Seth Morris, who's at the Meat Eater HQ pond, and he's fishing for a donation to Walleyes Unlimited.

[Ryan Callahan]

Good to see you, Seth.

[Max Barda]

Hey, guys. How we doing?

[Spencer Newarth]

We're doing good. Seth, give us a little scouting report on the Meat Eater pond today.

[Max Barda]

All right, so I came out earlier. I made a couple casts. I had one swipe at it, which was ideal because I didn't actually want to catch one.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Max Barda]

And that told me all I need to know. So there's some water flowing into this pond. It seems like they're stacked up over there in the current.

[Spencer Newarth]

I don't know. What's the water clarity like today?

[Max Barda]

It's pretty good. I'd say three feet, four feet.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Max Barda]

And I will say that we just talked to a youngster that was fishing in the same spot when we came out here, and he said he had not caught anything.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, no.

[Randall Williams]

But did he look like the old brush off where you're like, oh, yeah, there's nothing in there. Beat it. Maybe he thought you Were a chump.

[Max Barda]

When you get a few more years of experience under your belt like I have, maybe you'll catch up.

[Spencer Newarth]

What. What are we using today, Seth? I see you got the spinning rod in your hands.

[Max Barda]

Oh, yeah. Spinning rod as always. Number four, Panther Martin. My go to for trout.

[Randall Williams]

Every child needs one of those.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's right. We have not had a successful angler on the meat eater pond yet. And this is our first one minute fishing of the year since the ice is melted. So maybe this is our chance, Seth.

[Max Barda]

Yeah, I would say this is the best time to fish this pond. My experience, we'll see.

[Spencer Newarth]

Little hot tip off.

[Ryan Callahan]

How's the garbage situation down there? Good flow.

[Max Barda]

Well, I noticed over here is a pile of plastic bottles.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yep, yep.

[Max Barda]

Which isn't great.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, we're going to do a cleanup on that on Monday as an office.

[Spencer Newarth]

Uh huh. And we've got. I think we've got as many employees here as there are pieces of trash out there. So maybe leave some garbage while you're out there, Seth. Trip, trip over, dump over the dumpster so we have something to clean up next week.

[Max Barda]

Well, there is a garbage can that tipped over over here.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, perfect. Kick that thing into the water for us. All right, Seth, your one minute of fishing starts as soon as you make your first cast. Go ahead.

[Max Barda]

All right, here we go.

[Spencer Newarth]

Seth has made his first cast right towards the current that he thinks the fish are hanging in.

[Randall Williams]

God. New music, Phil.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, no. It just starts off really silent and then gets way too loud.

[Spencer Newarth]

Beautiful day here in Bozeman. We've got green grass, no wind at all.

[Ryan Callahan]

Glassy water, huh?

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, Seth is on a cast number two. He's got 20 seconds into his one minute.

[Ryan Callahan]

Somehow he managed to avoid casting it into that tree where I casted.

[Spencer Newarth]

Seth, 30 seconds to go.

[Ryan Callahan]

Come on, Seth.

[Spencer Newarth]

He's making his third cast. He might be able to get one more cast in here.

[Ryan Callahan]

Do it for the memory of Chester.

[Spencer Newarth]

RIP Chester still very much alive, just a few states away. Basically dead. All right, you have 10 seconds to go, Seth. Oh, he's taking a few steps with that cast.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, that's a tournament angler cast right there. Oh.

[Spencer Newarth]

Your time is up, Seth Morris. Tell us. Tell us what? What happened there, Seth?

[Max Barda]

Well, you know, the cast were in the right spot. The technique was there. It just. I don't think the fish were there.

[Spencer Newarth]

The fish were wrong. Yeah.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Classic.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Randall Williams]

All right.

[Max Barda]

You might need to rethink our local spot, Spencer.

[Randall Williams]

Or we need to.

[Spencer Newarth]

We need to stock that pond. Maybe that's what we got to do.

[Ryan Callahan]

This segment continues to just produce.

[Max Barda]

I think next time we need to go with a bobber and a nightcrawler.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

Or yeah, do one of each. Have that. Have a bobber and a nightcrawler out there and throw your panther Martin.

[Randall Williams]

Well, I don't know if he's in a two rod zone. And check, check the regs there.

[Spencer Newarth]

We'll see what the regs say about the meat eater HQ pond. All right, Seth, thanks for joining us. Good luck with your day of fishing out there at the pond.

[Ryan Callahan]

See you in a little bit.

[Max Barda]

Thanks, guys. We'll see ya.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, our next segment is show and tell.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, no.

[Spencer Newarth]

Spencer brought a rock.

[Seth Morris]

What else did you expect?

[Spencer Newarth]

Is that. Is that Steve Winwood?

[Seth Morris]

It is indeed.

[Spencer Newarth]

Steve Wynwood. I. I love the song. Back in the high life again. If I owned a yacht, I'd play yacht rock all day and Steve Wynwood.

[Seth Morris]

I play yacht rock all day in my Hyundai Santa Fe.

[Spencer Newarth]

Spencer, do you have SiriusXM?

[Seth Morris]

No, I just Spotify playlist.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, I love. When I did have Sirius though, I would. Yacht rock was one of my five presets on there. Loved yacht rock. And Steve Winwood, he would have some prime real estate in that yacht rock playlist for certain. All right, Randall, let's start with you. What did you bring to show the classroom today?

[Ryan Callahan]

I brought one item from home and then when I got to the office today, I thought I'd add another item to that and I figured the Cal didn't bring something, so I thought I'll just do two.

[Randall Williams]

Wow, Presumptuous.

[Spencer Newarth]

See what you brought and then we'll find out if Cal did the first thing I brought.

[Ryan Callahan]

The first thing I brought is a rare limited edition. You know, we've been hearing from the fans that they needed a book version of the audio Mountain man. This is in fact not a licensed version. This is just some bootleg thing that a guy produced with chat, GPT and a. And a print as you buy system. So I saw this on Amazon and before the lawyers could take it down, I ordered a copy for $11.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, wait, this guy didn't do this as like a favor to us. He was trying.

[Ryan Callahan]

No, no, legit. This just showed up. It showed up on her. On our audiobook thing. Yeah, and so it's. It doesn't have a back cover and it's. It's very strange. There's like.

[Randall Williams]

So it's a. Create your own back cover.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah. And clearly they fed so the One troubling thing, and maybe this is my big takeaway, is you hear how, like, artificial intelligence is getting so good, and it's just like, all it can do is look at text and predict what text there should be, you know, And I read this, and it's horrible.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, and so they're not your words that are.

[Ryan Callahan]

Well, right. They fed our audio into ChatGPT and then had it make something that sounded like that. And so this is so bad, it's making me sort of rethink my own abilities as a writer.

[Seth Morris]

Sorry to interrupt. I just got word from Corey. Seth caught one on the next cast.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, hell, we need to make it 92nd fishing.

[Ryan Callahan]

So, guys, if you see. If you see any print versions of our audiobooks, they are, in fact, illegal pirated versions. And don't buy them unless you just want a funny keepsake, which I did.

[Spencer Newarth]

So you should have got. What was that guy charging for that?

[Ryan Callahan]

12 bucks.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, yeah. The next thing I brought is the oldest. The oldest and most celebrated freeze dried meal in my pantry. This is a Cincinnati style chili backpacker's pantry that I purchased at the Bozeman Rei. I believe in, like, 2016.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, when did it expire?

[Ryan Callahan]

The expiration date was in May of last year.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh.

[Ryan Callahan]

And you can see some of the labels are peeling off of it. And I've always saved this for a real special occasion.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Randall Williams]

And you're gonna eat it right now.

[Ryan Callahan]

The time is never right. So it always goes into my backpack when I'm going out on a hunt where I think I'm gonna, you know, have a memorable moment that I want to celebrate with a fake version of Cincinnati style chili.

[Spencer Newarth]

What would it take, you think, for you to open that up?

[Ryan Callahan]

Big old bull. But then I get into a rush. You know, I get an animal down, I start cutting it up, and then I start thinking about how I can get it out of there. So it's really like I'd have to be trapped on the mountain with the. An animal of a lifetime for me to actually tear the seal on this, because I don't think they make it anymore.

[Spencer Newarth]

How does the seal feel on the thing? It's eight years old.

[Ryan Callahan]

Oh, that's a good question.

[Spencer Newarth]

Pretty good.

[Ryan Callahan]

You know, it doesn't, like, balloon out when I. Yeah, I don't think it's airtight.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Ryan Callahan]

I'm just. I hadn't really thought about. I've rolled it up and put in my backpack a lot over the past 10 years.

[Spencer Newarth]

Gone with you on a lot of trips?

[Ryan Callahan]

Yes. It's kind of like an old friend. Now.

[Spencer Newarth]

Was. Was it saved for a special occasion the day you bought it or did that recently change where it's like, okay, now?

[Ryan Callahan]

I was. I mean, I was thrilled when I found it and I should have bought a lot of them. It wasn't. No. I didn't like buy it with the intention of saving it, but it just never felt right to break into it. And then over time, it was like, I've got to pick the right occasion. So probably three years after this went in and out of my backpack, I decided it's a real thing, to actually eat it someday. And to be honest, I don't know that I ever will. I think my best days are behind me. And I also lack the courage of conviction required to do something like take in a moment and celebrate my accomplishments.

[Spencer Newarth]

I hope it happens this fall. Does that mean you killed something big?

[Ryan Callahan]

We'll tuck this under my armpit when I'm heading south. Six feet under.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, that's good. Cal, what'd you bring today for show and tell? Prove Randall wrong. Always taking his shoe off. All right, what do you got here?

[Seth Morris]

Just incredibly on brand.

[Randall Williams]

Do we have a QVC style?

[Seth Morris]

Just imagine we're playing. Playing the music from the countdown. Just some soft.

[Randall Williams]

Exactly. Lots of folks are into crocs. I discovered these Birkenstocks versions of a croc. You can call them a Birken Croc. Oh, lighter weight.

[Ryan Callahan]

I'll be the judge of that. Oh, yeah. Jumps out of your hand.

[Randall Williams]

It does. Lighter weight, obviously. Way classier. Great camp shoe, backpacking shoe. And you know, it's roto molded. It doesn't stink.

[Spencer Newarth]

Wow.

[Randall Williams]

Super comfy. Good art. Older guys.

[Spencer Newarth]

Smell it, Randall. See if it smells or not.

[Ryan Callahan]

No, you got to smell the inside.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, yeah. What do you.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, it's good.

[Spencer Newarth]

Let Randall be the Randall's now smelling.

[Ryan Callahan]

No, it smells like feed. It literally just smells like a shoe.

[Randall Williams]

But highly Recommend they were 30 bucks.

[Spencer Newarth]

Uh huh. Cal, show and tell item with the shoes on his feet. Yeah, that's good.

[Seth Morris]

Grant, Grant, Grant asks, is it breathable?

[Randall Williams]

No.

[Ryan Callahan]

No.

[Seth Morris]

Well, okay.

[Randall Williams]

Can't have it all.

[Seth Morris]

It's not much of a QVC segment.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, My show and tell item.

[Randall Williams]

Well, we'll get better, Phil.

[Ryan Callahan]

And listeners, listeners, if you're out there.

[Randall Williams]

But wait, there's more.

[Ryan Callahan]

Chime in with your thoughts on whether or not Cal intended to use his shoe for show and tell today.

[Spencer Newarth]

Why don't you show us that hoodie you're wearing? Maybe the yeti mug you're drinking out of next time.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, yeah, no problem. I was gonna do this talk about this program that Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever puts together.

[Spencer Newarth]

Well, you got to save something for more showing tales down the road.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Callahan]

Hopefully the next show and tell is. Is in the winter time again when he has as many layers as he needs to come up with a good item.

[Randall Williams]

Hey, I'm providing value to our audience. They like it.

[Spencer Newarth]

My show and tell item. I'm friends with the fossil dealer in.

[Randall Williams]

Utah, visiting his rock. Great.

[Spencer Newarth]

Visiting his shop. And I had 200 cash in my pickup. And I said, seth, Seth, what's the coolest thing I could get for $200? And he pointed to what I have here. This is one. I only have like three rocks that I've ever bought. The rest that I found. And this in honor of today's show is a dinosaur track that he sold me. Far, far, far undervalued. This is worth way more than $200. And I. I protested for a second. I says, seth, you can't give me that thing for $200. And he said, sure I can. And so I didn't argue anymore. I just took that dang track. This is 200 million years old. It's from a Dilophosaurus.

[Ryan Callahan]

Dilophosaurus.

[Spencer Newarth]

Dilophosaurus. It's found in Connecticut from the Portland Formation. This dinosaur was made famous in Jurassic park, but they depicted them way, way wrong.

[Ryan Callahan]

A lot of creative liberties.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. So in Jurassic park, they had them as like a smaller dinosaur that had frills. When it would get angry, it would pop these frills up on the spit.

[Ryan Callahan]

An acidic venom at Dennis Nedry, when he wrecked his Jeep trying to make his way to the last ferry, he had it come to Costa Rica.

[Spencer Newarth]

He needed that. It did spit venom in the movie. These dinosaurs, they do not believe spit venom. They don't think there was any dinosaurs that even possessed venom. So that those were a lot of creative liberties. The reality is.

[Randall Williams]

Well, actually it wouldn't be venom though, Right. It's just like an acidic phlegm, which would be something that reptiles, some reptiles these days have. Right. It's just an acid to digest food.

[Spencer Newarth]

But. But paleontologists don't. They have no evidence that any of these dinosaurs had any kind of venom or any sort of biological function.

[Ryan Callahan]

Crichton was just going wild with that.

[Randall Williams]

But that's the fun part is we don't have that much evidence.

[Spencer Newarth]

Sure.

[Randall Williams]

As to what exactly we're dealing with.

[Spencer Newarth]

What they do think they know about these dinosaurs. This is one of the first large meat eating dinosaurs that exist. They stood about 6ft tall, 20ft long, weighed 900 pounds. And at the time, this was the largest land mammal in North America. That made this here track. This is one of my favorite rocks.

[Randall Williams]

Put your hand next to that thing. Yeah, little, tiny.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, that's what's funny about Jurassic park is that he makes the, the Dilophosaurus, a small sort of cute dinosaur. And then the Velociraptor, they make much larger, way larger than it was. So, you know, do your research, kids.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's right. This is one of my favorite rocks. I have one of the few rocks that I've purchased. I asked Seth, I said, seth, you ever sold stuff to anyone really famous, like a list celebrity or big politicians? And he says, yep, Karl Malone. And I go, who are they?

[Randall Williams]

Was that Leo?

[Spencer Newarth]

He says, I can't tell you. And then I'm like, well, I begged him, I said, will you give me a hint? Can I make some guesses? He goes, nope. So if you're looking to, if you're a famous person, deal.

[Seth Morris]

I mean, just between the movie prop that they. Oh, we can't say what it's from. Why are all these people so secretive about this? Just tell us.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, we're in showbiz. We can take it.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, right. But if you're looking, if maybe if you were like a star on Parks and Rec and you consume meat eater content, you're looking for a fossil for your own home. Seth Sorensen from the Fossil Shack, he could hook you up and he.

[Randall Williams]

So is that some inside knowledge? Is that from Spencer? Hollywood Reporter beat.

[Spencer Newarth]

What's that?

[Randall Williams]

Is somebody from Parks and Rec?

[Spencer Newarth]

Interesting. I think there's a few characters from that show. I don't know that they're interested in fossils.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, you're just profiling.

[Spencer Newarth]

They've consumed meat eater content in the past. So maybe they're listening right now. Maybe they're a male cast member from Parks and Rec. Maybe two of them.

[Seth Morris]

Roughly in the age of Aubrey Plaza, never misses a show.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, and maybe they're interested in having some fossils for their home, the fossil shack. He'll keep your secret. Secret. He won't tell me or anyone else that you sold him some big, beautiful fossils.

[Ryan Callahan]

Get after it. Rob Low.

[Spencer Newarth]

Joining us on the line last is Alex Fogg, the Okaloosa County Natural Resources chief in Florida. He's here to talk about turning a retired ocean liner into the world's largest artificial reef. Alex, welcome to the show.

[Phil]

Hey, man, how's it going?

[Spencer Newarth]

We're doing good. First thing, tell us about the SS United States, which is the ship at the center of this story.

[Phil]

Yeah, man. So it's a big old ship. When I first saw it, I thought I was looking at the Titanic and it has that old ocean liner look. It was built back in the 1950s, sailed all across the the Atlantic, made the fastest crossing from the United States over to England, and then broke its own record coming back. Still the record that it holds today. While it still doesn't have that fresh coat of paint on her anymore, you could certainly see how she was quite magnificent back in her heyday.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. It's funny you compared it to the Titanic because this ship is bigger than the Titanic slightly. And I've seen the images comparing the sizes of the SS United States to the Titanic. Now, how did Okaloosa county acquire the ship?

[Phil]

Yes, it's been a heck of a process. We found out about it maybe three years ago. I had a contractor that we'd worked with on some other artificial reefs reach out and say, hey, you know, you should look at the SS United States. So I went down the Google rabbit hole, started looking at, you know, what, what story this had, and there was some conflict between the old owner and the dock that it was at. So it was coming to a point where the vessel was either going to be sold for scrap or it was going to have to go to some other purpose. And really the only economical option was to create an artificial reef with this vessel. We've deployed hundreds of artificial reefs, dozens of wrecks, large vessels, not as big as this one, but large ones in the past. And it just, it seemed like the right option for us to move forward with negotiating with the previous owner. And then we took ownership back in October, which was a big deal. A small county in Florida owning 1000 foot ocean liner that was in Philadelphia at the time.

[Spencer Newarth]

Can you tell us what you guys paid Alex? Yeah.

[Phil]

So we bought the ship for a million dollars, which is about the price of scrap. If it were to be scrap. There's about a million dollars worth of steel on board.

[Steve Rinella]

Wow.

[Randall Williams]

And then it's a bargain. Yeah. How do you like the tug service to get that sucker down there and then. And I imagine you got to do it quite a few man hours to make sure you're putting something not all that God awful in the water, Right?

[Phil]

Yeah, exactly. So this is built in a time when they didn't really have many rules as to what was going into paint, what was being burned for fuel. So there's a lot of that that's still on board, even though a lot of it was gutted when it got brought overseas to Ukraine and Turkey. A lot of the asbestos is gone, but there's still a lot of lead, a lot of PCBs that are in the paint, a lot of fuel oil. All that has to be removed to ensure that we're not hurting the environment, that we're open to benefit.

[Spencer Newarth]

Now, I've been surprised to read that it seems like a lot of the decision making is done at a very local level. In this case, Okaloosa county would. I'd expect there to be involvement from NOAA and the U.S. fish and Wildlife Service and maybe even like the state of Alabama. Can you talk about the red tape involved with a project like this and how much or how little power Okaloosa county has?

[Phil]

Yeah, fortunately, we. We planned way ahead. And the way artificial reef construction works is you actually get permits way ahead of time, certain area, to allow you to deploy artificial reefs whenever you want. So we have a permit that's good for 10 years. It was actually initially obtained back in the 90s, and, you know, it's still active today, and we can deploy wrecks tomorrow if we want to. So we've already gone through all the consultation with Army Corps of Engineers, Fish and Wildlife, noaa, all those folks. The people that we, I guess, had the most red tape that we had to cut through just to get out of Philadelphia was the US Coast Guard. So the Coast Guard was very, very nervous about a vessel that hadn't moved in 30 years looking the way that it did. They were worried about its ability to make the tow from Philadelphia all the way down into the Gulf and eventually into Mobile. So it was a hell of a tow. But after a lot of tests and a lot of surveys by all sorts of different people in Philadelphia, it was determined to be okay. There were some water bottles and some cups and things that were left sitting on tables. When we left Philadelphia, it arrived in Mobile with those cups and bottles still sitting in the same place that we left. It was a very stable boat, no issues, didn't take on any water. Now's the. The process of getting her all cleaned up, and we'll have to go through similar hurdles when we tow her from Mobile to south of Destin, Fort Walton beach to deploy as a reef.

[Spencer Newarth]

I've seen some online resistance to this project, and there was a recent headline that said, campaigners Appeal Trump to Save the SS United States. Why are some folks against this.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah.

[Phil]

So you know, this, this is one of the last vessels of its time. You know, essentially a hand built vessel that carries our nation's name. A lot of people are very passionate about this vessel. What the people that are so negative about this project, don't really know or maybe can't wrap their head around is.

[Randall Williams]

How much was that is fishing. They don't know fish.

[Phil]

There's fishing, totally. I mean there's a, there's a ton of money in fishing and diving and they probably aren't fishermen and divers themselves, but they can't wrap their head around what it would cost to actually restore this. I mean we're talking a billion dollars to get this vessel to a point where it actually be used again. Not to mention, I don't know where the heck you would put a thousand foot ship for a long period of time. I mean it's out of Philadelphia for a long time and they essentially got thrown out. So there's just way too many logistics. I understand that there's historical value to it, but that's where we're going to try and honor its legacy through land based museums. So there's a whole bunch of artifacts that have been collected over the years. We're going to actually remove the funnels, the big stacks on the top and those will be retained for the museum and allow folks to come and learn about it even after it's gone to the bottom. And if you aren't a fisherman or a diver, then you know, you can go there.

[Randall Williams]

How deep are we looking to sink this baby?

[Phil]

Yeah, it's a massive ship. So it's going to be out in 180ft of water. But the top decks, the whole top deck is going to be at 55, 60ft of water.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, beautiful. Yeah, yeah.

[Phil]

Very accessible to the beginner diver. But then if those technical folks want to go to the bottom or go penetrate and check out the engine room, that's, that's all on them.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, that is cool. Have you thought about like putting. Oh, I love, love to, to dive? Yeah. Have you thought about putting like some mattresses or old couches on the deck to get people's speed jigs and stuff and then you can go down there and collect them?

[Phil]

I'll, I'll tell you, I think the wreck itself is going to be a magnet for all those, all those hooks and line and jigs and everything. It's, it's amazing how, how smart the fish are and nowhere to go to get you hung up.

[Randall Williams]

I love it.

[Spencer Newarth]

So there's About a year of prep work before you can sink this. What all happens in that time period.

[Phil]

So once we got to Mobile, we got the Mobile in what, early March, so we've been there about two months now. They've been removing 120 tanks worth, so millions of gallons of fuel oil that's still on board. They're removing all the glass, removing all the hazardous paint. All of this has to come off. And for a thousand foot ship, that's a lot of material and a lot of manpower, as you implied earlier. So once, once she gets cleaned up, we'll have EPA and a bunch of other regulatory agencies on board to come take a look and make sure we did what we said we did. And then we'll get that clearance to go deploy it in one of those permitted areas that I mentioned earlier. So it's exciting times on the horizon, but still a ton of work that needs to be done to try and get this thing down in 20, 25.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. So the, the day comes where you're ready to drop this thing to the bottom of the ocean. What is the process actually like of sinking the ship?

[Phil]

Ship?

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Back in the day they used to use bombs and explosives to blow holes in the side of it and make it go to the bottom really, really fast. But they determined that that's not good for dolphins, turtles. So no, no dramatic explosions. But there'll be holes cut throughout the, the ship right above the water line to where when it's go time, you can open up through holes inside the ship to allow water to flood controlled. And then once those holes that are cut on the exterior of the vessel sink below the waterline, it'll be gone in 40 minutes. Once you get to that point, what.

[Spencer Newarth]

Kind of sea life is going to like this new artificial reef?

[Phil]

You name it, everything. So this is, it's such a large vessel being placed in a location where there's really no reef material, natural or artificial, existing at this time. So it's going to be an oasis. You're going to have your reef fish species, your snappers and your groupers. You're also going to have your pelagics. There's going to be, you know, tunas, wahoos, billfish, other things swimming by. I mean, it's such a large vessel, it's going to be a magnet for everything, including humans.

[Ryan Callahan]

Alex, it's been a while since I've been in the ship sinking game. So I'm curious, you, you guys ended up with the ship. Were there other localities competing with you for it? And Then along those same lines, is there like a top 10 list of ships like this sitting around the country that, that folks in your line of work are, are eyeballing and waiting for it to go or sort of. How does that shopping process look like?

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah. Start with the first question about other communities. Yeah, there's. There are other communities that were certainly looking at this, but they didn't have. The total project cost is right around $10 million. So they didn't have $10 million to commit to a project like this. We fortunately have leadership and the foresight to be able to obligate those funds and then find partnerships on the back end. So we've been working to find a number of partnerships to alleviate that total cost, including partnering with some neighboring communities that were also looking at getting this vessel. So it's a win, win for everybody. Those, those partnerships haven't been formalized yet, but I suspect it'll be in the coming month or two. As far as selecting vessels, a lot of it's a case by case basis. You know, sometimes a vessel catches fire and they can't put it back into operation, so they give us a call and see if we'd be interested in taking it as an artificial reef. Sometimes it's an old vessel that has no other opportunities. You know, like the SS United States. There's really no other option. So. So we worked with them to keep it from going to the scrapyard and turning it into the world's largest artificial reef. There are some large vessels out there that we're certainly keeping our eye on, but it's not something we're actively pursuing until something hits the fan.

[Ryan Callahan]

Hmm, fascinating.

[Randall Williams]

Have you thought about the merch opportunities here? You know, there's so many boat cliches like T shirts that say the two. Two best days of boat ownership. The day you buy it and the day you sink it.

[Ryan Callahan]

Oh, man.

[Phil]

No, that's a great point. So there's a lot of examples of where large vessels have been deployed and they are visited by people from around the world. The amount of merchandise that pops up is incredible in the age of social media and digital media and podcasts like this, it's amazing how many people have learned about this. And I suspect that the returns in the form of merchandise and visitation, all that stuff is going to be significantly more than anything that's ever been done before. So we're really looking to look at. We're really excited to see what pops up from this, but we're not in the. We're not in the Business of merchandise. So I think that's probably going to come down to the dive shops and the fishing shops and stuff like that.

[Spencer Newarth]

How quickly will fish start using this new reef?

[Phil]

Yep, there'll be fish there probably the day after it's been deployed. There'll be a bunch of bait fish. Now they aren't going to be established. They're not going to be sit there reproducing and eating and all that stuff. They're more just there because there's some new thing that's on the bottom. It'll take a year or two before it's a functioning system, but there will be things to see immediately after it goes to the bottom.

[Spencer Newarth]

And how do you envision sportsmen using it?

[Phil]

Oh, man, the amount of early on when, you know, there maybe aren't enough fish there to really sustain a fisherman or, you know, make for a good day of fishing, it's gonna be heavily dived. But once it's become that established system, there's gonna be fishing, people fishing it every single day. And then there's going to be people spearfishing on it every single day. So it's going to be hammered by the sports fishermen. But the good news is there's a lot of other fishing sites and diving sites all around this vessel. So if there's a bunch of people there, they can go to one of those other sites and wait their turn.

[Spencer Newarth]

Well, thank you for joining us, Alex. Congrats on the record breaking reef and good luck with the project.

[Phil]

Yep. Thank you. You guys have a good one.

[Ryan Callahan]

Thank you.

[Spencer Newarth]

Cal's gonna be there in a few years.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, I love that. Love it.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, you look at the map that Okaloosa county has of all the artificial reefs they created, it's like reefs on of top of reefs at this point. I think they got it figured out over there.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah. Alabama's kind of an overlooked Gulf state too, which is cool.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, that brings us to the end of this week's show. Phil, let's get some final feedback from the chat.

[Seth Morris]

Brent would just like to set the record straight that he did the turkey reveal thing first. So that's. It's fine when he. When he does it. Spencer, your holy grail for rockhounding.

[Spencer Newarth]

I would say it's a rock that probably doesn't even exist. I would want a rock that has multiple bits of history. So if. If I got to pick one rock to find, it would be a meteorite that hit earth and then that meteorite was eaten by a dinosaur because dinosaurs had gizzards just like birds. So people will find, or claim to find. It's not always confirmed. A rock that was a dinosaur gizzard stone. And they're very smooth. Smooth and round.

[Randall Williams]

Gastrolyte.

[Spencer Newarth]

It's a gastrolith.

[Randall Williams]

Gastrolith is on the ground. Gastrolite is in the bird. Is that right?

[Ryan Callahan]

Well, I think lith would be stone.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. When I. When I hear it referred to as the fossil version, it's a gastrolith.

[Ryan Callahan]

Okay.

[Spencer Newarth]

So I'd want a meteorite that hit her that was then eaten by a dinosaur and was used as a gizzard stone, become a gastrolith, and then maybe some ancient human picked it up and used it as a pest with a pestle and mortar. That's my holy grail. I want. It's a small ask something that came from outer space that was in a dinosaurs gizzard that then some ancient human used to crush acorns.

[Randall Williams]

Two weeks ago, I basically stayed at the site of the Jones diamond. Are you familiar with that one?

[Spencer Newarth]

No.

[Randall Williams]

It's the largest specific kind of diamond that's blanking on me right now. It was found in West Virginia in a creek. But it's like a giant mystery stone. You would love this because the formation it comes out of is in Brazil. And so there's a theory that it was traded over and over and over and over and over again and eventually got dropped in this creek in West Virginia.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's perfect.

[Ryan Callahan]

The largest alluvial diamond. Alluvial diamond discovered in North America.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's. That's got all the ingredients of a holy grail.

[Ryan Callahan]

And it kind of brings us full circle, because diamonds are. And the search for them, particularly in alluvial floodplains, is a key plot element of the film and book. Congo.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yes, exactly.

[Seth Morris]

Full circle.

[Ryan Callahan]

The blue diamonds, though, because they want to use those in some sort of primitive microprocessor. In the book. Yeah. In the movie, it's a laser weapon. But yeah.

[Seth Morris]

When we were talking about the legislation in dc, Max brought up the fact that Cal and Mark both dropped a podcast today about their recent trip to D.C. cal, I don't know if you want to just. Just talk briefly about what you did over there and what kind of shows you'll be dropping for in the Cal in the Wild feed next week.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, boy. Phil and I were just crying over the. The news cycle moving way too fast for our pace here. Yeah, we. We did some lobbying on the Hill in Washington, D.C. we attended the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, Capital Conservation Awards and basically just rubbed elbows with some newly appointed Trump appointees in different offices like National Resource Conservation Service and some folks in the Ag Department. And. And then tried to hit as many Senate and House offices as possible to ask them to join the the brand spickety new released Public Lands Caucus led by Gabe Vasquez out of New Mexico and Ryan Zinke out of Montana. I saw Congressman Mike Simpson was in the lineup with that too. But we need more of that and, and that's what we're really encouraging people to do. We also talked about mineral withdrawal in the Boundary Waters. We talked about active land management and not selling off our public land. Especially doing it in a way that avoids all the things that the public has come to trust, which is knowing what we're giving up for what we're getting, quite simply.

[Spencer Newarth]

So, Phil, what else you got?

[Seth Morris]

Let's see here. Oh yeah, you're playing trivia at the BHA Rendezvous. Rendezvous, correct. Spencer.

[Spencer Newarth]

I won't be there, but Randall. Randall will be. Randall is going to be leading trivia at the BHA Rendezvous for the second year in a row.

[Ryan Callahan]

Saturday night. I believe it starts at 8pm June, Juneteens, the mid teens, whatever the Saturday is. Yeah, I think it's the 13th, Tuesday is the 17th. So going backwards and seems to carry the three.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. And while you're there.

[Randall Williams]

So it's the weekend of the 13th, so it's Friday the 13th, Saturday the 14th, and then we're gonna have a big public lands rally on the 15th there in Missoula, which is also Father's Day.

[Ryan Callahan]

We'll make up a plan here soon. I think it'd be fun to get some audience participation in that game, but I haven't yet sat down to think through the logistics. But rest assured, Leland, we will be playing trivia and it will be a wonderful time in support of a good organization.

[Spencer Newarth]

If you see Randall there, go ask him about the drunkest he's ever been in his life and he'll have a good story to share with you.

[Ryan Callahan]

Nope.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Ryan Callahan]

Won't go there.

[Spencer Newarth]

He won't share that story with you. So ask him anyway.

[Seth Morris]

Jacob's going on a four day paddle trip in the Midwest. It's kind of a big area, Jacob. But he's asking for recommendations on scenic rivers with decent fishing.

[Spencer Newarth]

There's a lot of four day paddle.

[Ryan Callahan]

But four days, if you're stringing together four days, like camping along the way, you're probably limited.

[Spencer Newarth]

Go to the Boundary Waters.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, go to the Boundary Waters.

[Spencer Newarth]

You could paddle for months up there. It's plenty scenic and some of the finest fishing in North America. America. Any other recommendations?

[Randall Williams]

It's gonna be totally different when there's an open pit copper sulfide mine.

[Ryan Callahan]

I've only done. I've only done one one night, two day trips on the Little Miami river. And I don't think it's sort of attracting visitation from out of state. So maybe look elsewhere.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay. There you go, Randall. Tell you where not to go. What else you got, Phil?

[Seth Morris]

Kevin says, man, it's a really great fossil. Really happy for you. But what the people really need to know is what shoe you're wearing.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, I've got just some Nike tennis shoes. Shoes on today.

[Randall Williams]

I mean, man of the people.

[Ryan Callahan]

I'll do my own audience.

[Seth Morris]

There's a couple silly questions, but I feel like I've done a lot of silly questions.

[Spencer Newarth]

Let's get a couple more.

[Ryan Callahan]

I'll do my own audience call out. I saw questions right after we finished our discussion of the guerrilla battle and someone pointed out that they don't believe that that many humans would be killed, just very badly injured. And I actually, I'd like to go back on my statement about 30 to 40 being killed. That is, unless the gorilla had time to go around and sort of finish off his victims. I think it would just be a lot of maimings. So, yeah, whoever that was, point well taken.

[Spencer Newarth]

He'll put him in a coma. Yeah, make him. Make him on bed rest.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yep.

[Spencer Newarth]

Anything else, Phil?

[Seth Morris]

Marty says inquiring minds wants to know who's in charge of bumping into the giant foothold trap behind Spencer. Every week it's at a different address. I've got a follow up for you.

[Ryan Callahan]

And it's not. You know, the thing is, it's not the person who's actually bumping into the trap who's responsible. It's the person who sits in Spencer's seat. You see, I think in the event of a fire, everybody on this side of the table would be dead because there's not a lot of clearance between the tripods and that host seat. And so if someone is sitting in that seat and not paying attention to those around them, they oftentimes will force those of us with larger bodies to sort of push up against the wall, which wasn't as hazardous until that foothold trap was in place. So it's not the guy bumping the trap, it's the guy he's trying to avoid.

[Seth Morris]

And I will say, for being such a respected hunter and personality in the industry, Steven Rinella has very little awareness of what's happening around him. So I'll walk.

[Ryan Callahan]

I didn't want to name names.

[Seth Morris]

He'll be in the chair, leaning back. You're just fine. That's his right. But then I come up next to him kind of. Of I don't. He's usually on the phone. You're sending an email. I'll kind of try to squeeze through, and then I'll finally just have to say, excuse me. Hey, Steve. Excuse me. Behind you.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

And then he'll move about an inch, and then I'll still bump into the trap, which works.

[Ryan Callahan]

Which works for some folks in this office.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. You have to make him acknowledge you to get behind his chair. And Marty and everyone else listening to this if you really want to help out. Phil, if you're a Philistine, what are your fans called?

[Seth Morris]

Oh, well, there's a question about that. Apparently people don't like Philistine because they think I'm being. It's rude, but I'm. I'm embracing it. Let's call it a spade a straight.

[Ryan Callahan]

And my favorite one that I've seen is the cow Mudgeons. That's the other tribe.

[Seth Morris]

Someone came up with calamanders in this show today.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, that's good. If you're a Philistine, the. The thing that you can do to really prove that you're a philistine is write an email to theme eater themeater.com and say, Hey, I think you guys need a bigger studio because we have multiple walls here. We could knock out and we can make a bigger space for you. And, boy, if you think we're podcasting at a high level now, just wait until this room has, like an extra.

[Ryan Callahan]

We're going to be throwing our limbs all over the place.

[Spencer Newarth]

60 square feet of room to get lively. We're not going to bump any more trap. Any more traps.

[Randall Williams]

Quiet air circulation would be great.

[Ryan Callahan]

Yeah, Phil would be in a great mood, H vac.

[Spencer Newarth]

So write an email to the meat Eater atthe meat eater.com and say, hey, I think you guys need to make your podcast studio loose bigger.

[Seth Morris]

Spencer said it, I didn't.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, I did say. All right, on next week's show, we've got a very exciting media to radio live. It's dedicated to man's best friend. Because it is dog week here at Meat Eater. We got special guests joining us and a Meat Eater movie club. Randall, what are you going to be reviewing?

[Ryan Callahan]

Yes, I'm pleased to announce that the Meteor Movie club is returning by popular demand. And next week, in keeping with with the theme of Dog Week, we're gonna be reviewing where the red fern grows.

[Randall Williams]

1974 ripped my heart out.

[Ryan Callahan]

I know.

[Seth Morris]

Perfect for Dog Week.

[Ryan Callahan]

There aren't that many good. Like I was. I was gonna go with Balto. No. If I have to watch Air Bud, I'm gonna instead watch Dunston Checks in because it's the same thing, but with an orangutan.

[Randall Williams]

We didn't have White Fang.

[Ryan Callahan]

I thought about White Fang, but then he did the old one or the remake.

[Spencer Newarth]

What was the Stephen King movie with Kuju Jojo? Yeah, that one. There you go.

[Ryan Callahan]

We're going to go with where the Red Fern Grows.

[Randall Williams]

Nobody wins.

[Ryan Callahan]

It's available on Tubi Roku, Fandango at home, Plex Peacock, Amazon Prime, YouTube, YouTube TV, and then you can rent it on Google Play Movies and Apple tv. But don't rent it, just find it free. There also seems to be just like some bootleg version of it on YouTube. So I don't endorse, as we know. I don't endorse the infringement of intellectual property. But. But check it out on YouTube before you go rent.

[Spencer Newarth]

What movie did you tell me you were considering doing? But it didn't really do it for you. Didn't really get you revved up. Old Yeller.

[Ryan Callahan]

Old Yeller, yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

That doesn't do it for Randall. So you.

[Ryan Callahan]

I mean, that's the thing. There's just like, sad movies, you know, Homeward Bound, maybe. Maybe we'll just show up next week and I'll talk about Homeward Bound instead to myself.

[Spencer Newarth]

One more important detail for next week. We want a hot tip off showdown dedicated to dogs. So send your hot tip to radio@the mediator.com with the subject line Hot Dog Tips. We'll have a great prize for the winner. That's the end of this week's show. We'll see you guys back here next week for dog week.

[Randall Williams]

Thank you so much.

[Ryan Callahan]

Thanks, everybody.

[Steve Rinella]

I've been running FHF bino harnesses for over a decade. And for the last couple years, it has been the FOB because it's quiet, it's tough, and it just plain works. And it's easy to work. I've worn it in damn near every environment you can think of. Desert, mountains, snow, heat. And it has never let me down. Now they've made it even better. They got new colors, more modularity, and like everything FHF makes, it's built right here in the usa. This is gear you can count on season after season. Pick up yours [e-mail] you're listening to.

[Spencer Newarth]

An I Heart podcast.