Ep. 705: Fishing at 200 MPH with NASCAR's Chase Elliot

Summary

Podcast Summary: The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 705: Fishing at 200 MPH with NASCAR's Chase Elliott

In Episode 705 of The MeatEater Podcast, host Steven Rinella sits down with NASCAR sensation Chase Elliott to delve into the high-octane world of professional racing. The conversation navigates through Chase's illustrious racing career, the nuances of driving at extreme speeds, the mental fortitude required for the sport, and the intricate economics behind being a NASCAR driver.

1. Introduction and Guest Credentials

Steven Rinella sets the stage by highlighting Chase Elliott's impressive credentials in NASCAR. As Elon Musk might say, "Chase isn't just racing; he's redefining speed." Chase's achievements, including his multiple race wins and consistent performance throughout the season, position him as a formidable force in the racing world.

2. Personal Driving Experiences and Safety

The discussion kicks off with anecdotes about driving incidents and personal experiences behind the wheel. Steven shares a mishap involving a Chevy truck, emphasizing the unpredictability of high-speed driving.

"If you're Livingston, Montana, and you're trying to get westbound on I90 at the main Livingston thing, there's an entrance there that is like the engineer that designed it should be shot or run over out on that. It is the worst highway." – Steven Rinella [04:06]

Chase chimed in, assuring his impeccable driving record with no moving violations, attributing his clean slate to disciplined driving habits:

"I never had a moving violation, nothing like that." – Chase Elliott [09:12]

3. NASCAR Career and Achievements

Steven eagerly transitions to discussing Chase's NASCAR career, unveiling the depth of Chase's expertise and accomplishments. From winning the 2014 NASCAR Nationwide Series championship to clinching victories on drafting-heavy tracks like Talladega and Atlanta Motor Speedway, Chase's prowess is undeniable.

"Chase Elliott won the 2014 NASCAR Nationwide Series championship, becoming the first rookie and the youngest driver to win a national series championship in NASCAR history." – Steven Rinella [15:10]

Chase elaborates on his journey, highlighting the competitive nature of the sport and the significance of each race:

"Racing was always my dream, and I grew up around it. My dad raced, so much like your kids are living the outdoors, racing was that way for me." – Chase Elliott [45:15]

4. The Mental Game and Preparation

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the psychological aspects of racing. Chase emphasizes the importance of mental resilience and the ability to stay calm under pressure. He shares insights into how drivers must process information swiftly while maintaining composure.

"There's a level of acceptance to the risk for all of us. And there are certainly tracks that carry higher risk than other tracks as it pertains to crashes and injury and just the amount of things that can go wrong." – Chase Elliott [47:14]

Steven adds his perspective on the necessity of being comfortable with high-speed risks:

"I think the number one thing is that These people are very comfortable with death. And I'm like, that must be what makes a good racer." – Steven Rinella [47:34]

5. Economics of Being a NASCAR Driver

The duo explores the financial dynamics of a NASCAR career. Chase explains that drivers are typically private contractors tied to race teams, discussing contract structures, sponsorships, and the financial responsibilities drivers bear.

"All drivers are private contractors to whatever race team they work for. So if I work for Hendrick Motorsports, I'm basically a contractor of Hendrick Motorsports." – Chase Elliott [84:10]

Steven probes further into the economic challenges, highlighting the high costs associated with motorsports and the dependence on sponsorships:

"Explain the economics of being a driver. ... There's a huge safety element." – Steven Rinella [84:16]

6. The Evolution and Future of Racing

Chase reflects on the evolution of NASCAR, noting improvements in safety protocols and the decreasing incidence of career-ending injuries thanks to technological advancements.

"Most recently, Kurt Busch, I would say, was a guy that had a career-ending head injury, you know, that sidelined him for what he thought was going to be a brief period of time and basically never recovered." – Chase Elliott [91:07]

They also discuss the strategic aspects of racing, such as car configurations tailored to different tracks and the constant quest for technical excellence.

"So, like, some engine, you know, so if it's Chevy versus a Ford, you know, a Chevy in the power curve, they might both make the same horsepower, but their torque numbers might be different." – Chase Elliott [81:37]

7. Balancing Personal Life and Racing

Towards the end, Steven and Chase touch upon balancing the demanding life of a NASCAR driver with personal commitments. Chase hints at future plans post-racing, expressing a desire to remain active in outdoor pursuits.

"When I retire, I might just fish or go on a turkey hunt. It depends on the guy." – Jordan (Chase's Manager) [87:52]

8. Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with mutual appreciation between Steven and Chase, highlighting the enlightening exchange of insights into the world of high-speed racing.

"You think you'll come back and fish when it's better fishing?" – Steve Rinella [94:50]

Chase acknowledges the value of the experience despite not catching any fish, underscoring the importance of enjoying the journey over the destination.

"I really did appreciate it. I knew we didn't catch anything, but it was still good to get outside and enjoy what you guys have out here." – Chase Elliott [96:12]

Conclusion

Episode 705 of The MeatEater Podcast offers a comprehensive look into the life of NASCAR driver Chase Elliott, blending personal anecdotes with professional insights. Listeners gain an appreciation for the mental and financial challenges of racing, the technical prowess required, and the unwavering dedication that defines champions like Chase. This episode is a must-listen for enthusiasts keen on understanding the intricacies of high-speed sportsmanship and the human spirit that fuels it.

Transcript

[Steve Rinella]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Talkspace Sponsor]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone let's face it in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits or another challenge that you need support to work through, it's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A C 80 to match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Dan Flores]

Steve Rinella here the American west with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time wild animals, native peoples in the west, unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores On Apple, Spotify, iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.

[Steve Rinella]

This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything.

[Dan Flores]

The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer sticks, stands or scouting for elk, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light.com F I R-S-T-L-I-T-E.com.

[Dr. Randall]

Steve had a little incident today.

[Steve Rinella]

I did?

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah.

[Dr. Randall]

With Chase. In the past, the machine's been on. If we want to make it, we should. We should get going anyway. Driving incident today.

[Steve Rinella]

It's not my fault.

[Jordan]

Little.

[Steve Rinella]

I always point out at that place, I tell my kids someone's going to die here.

[Jordan]

Well, you about did. From road rage. From the other guy.

[Dr. Randall]

We all about did.

[Steve Rinella]

You know what? I noticed he got into another altercation.

[Jordan]

Listen, it wasn't. I'll be honest. Your. Your compadres here made it seem a lot worse than I was expecting. I saw like 80 on the. On the speedometer. They were saying, like 65 max. That was all. We were going to get out of here today.

[Dr. Randall]

That's not what I said. If you let that be known.

[Steve Rinella]

If you go, I won't name names. I'm just saying, if you're Livingston, Montana, and you're trying to get westbound on I90 at the main Livingston thing, there's an entrance there that is like the engineer that designed it should be shot or run over out on that. It is the worst highway.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah. It's not ideal.

[Jordan]

It's questionable.

[Steve Rinella]

No. And I always tell my kids, like, someone's gonna get killed at this entrance. You. Like, there's no. Like, you're just there. You're just on the highway.

[Dr. Randall]

I start sweating every time I get on the freeway. So, you know, 100% I'm on your side.

[Steve Rinella]

Steve, you can't. It's. The Runway is so short. You, like, you do the little loop, and all of a sudden, there you are, and like, dudes that don't get over. It's not like you can stop and then wait a while and then merge out later. You have to just go. And they have to let you in.

[Dr. Randall]

This guy didn't want to let you in.

[Steve Rinella]

No. And then he wanted to have a little conniption honking his horn. And I noticed he got into an altercation. I was in my. In my rear side view mirror. I watched him having, like, a little blinker war with another guy.

[Jordan]

He was having a bad day.

[Dr. Randall]

Just one of those guys, you know?

[Steve Rinella]

I think he's one of those guys. I think that, like, I, like, did. I mean, I'm entering the highway. Get. Let me in.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

And if you want to not do that.

[Chase Elliott]

But how would you rate your own driving in general? Are you like.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, I don't need to rate. I have. I have the stats to back it up.

[Chase Elliott]

What stats?

[Steve Rinella]

Like, I told my first car on a Two track on a two track crash tree trying to open the try you know the little the windows in the back trucks used to have trying to hand a beer through to a guy named Brian Peterson and he and hit a oak tree on a logging.

[Jordan]

Road and they were in the bed.

[Steve Rinella]

They were in the bed of the truck. They both got launched. They do but that was one of the worst things. So I bought that truck for 600. It was on the corner of Russell and Riley Thompson. Dalton Township, Michigan.

[Dr. Randall]

What was it?

[Steve Rinella]

79 Chev. Two wheel drive blue team Chevy.

[Jordan]

Hey, we're all about some team Chevy.

[Steve Rinella]

That's the voice. Chase, when I get to reading you about how credentialed Chase Elliott is as a NASCAR driver, you're going to blow your mind debate. I'm talking to the listener. You won't believe it how credentialed this gentleman is at race car driving.

[Jordan]

You might and you might not.

[Dr. Randall]

Well, we'll find out.

[Steve Rinella]

Stay tuned. You'll have to wait and see. What was I getting at? Oh, that truck. So it was at the corner of Russell and Riley Thompson. 600 bucks stick shift, short box, shortish. But we didn't have an eight foot box on which is a bummer. My next truck did which was $300. Anyways, regular cab, short mileage. Regular cab. What's that?

[Jordan]

What was the mileage high? I mean I assume so for 600 bucks. But I just was curious.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. A long time ago this would have been and this would have been when I turned 16. So it would have been in 1980. 19. No, no, no. Not 86. Would have been 1990.

[Jordan]

That wasn't that long ago.

[Dr. Randall]

My first truck was a short bed regular cab Chevy 88.

[Steve Rinella]

I didn't have this truck long. Anyway, let me tell you what happened. Yeah, no, well so I crashed it into this oak tree and smash it all in. Matt Jones, who was a total gearhead like you know what he had to do most likely to succeed. He was such a gearhead. I voted for him. No one else did. But I just saw in him like I mean he'll be successful at fixing cars and other stuff. Yeah, he became like a hydraulics mechanic. Anyhow, I sold it to him for $100. So now and because he's such a gearhead, two days later some bitch is driving the truck around. Look just like when I had it before I crashed it.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

So I learned a strong life lesson.

[Dr. Randall]

Same thing happened with my truck. I blew my truck up on the interstate driving to college. And when I was back For Christmas this past year, I saw some dude driving it around.

[Steve Rinella]

Really?

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah. Fixed her out, fixed it up, you.

[Steve Rinella]

Know, then, then I bought another Chev after that. Then I bought another, then I bought another Chev after that.

[Dr. Randall]

There you go. Team Chevy.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And as there's a reason you keep going back.

[Chase Elliott]

As you matured, your, your level of driving improved beyond.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh. Point being.

[Jordan]

So I, that was the whole point.

[Steve Rinella]

I've never had, I've never had a trouble with the cops ever.

[Chase Elliott]

Oh, that's good.

[Steve Rinella]

Never had like a moving violation, nothing like that.

[Chase Elliott]

You don't speed.

[Dr. Randall]

You never got a speeding ticket?

[Corinne]

Yeah, I mean you get a ticket for the crash.

[Steve Rinella]

No, because that was off in the woods. I rolled, I had a Econo line van that I traded Ronnie Bame. I traded him a husk barn a 252 chainsaw and I think. 250 bucks for Van. Rolled it on the ice, destroyed that. And other than that, nothing bad's ever happened to me.

[Chase Elliott]

That's not a bad.

[Steve Rinella]

Some like, like facts speak for themselves. I never even killed a deer. I hit one with the side view mirror but couldn't find it.

[Jordan]

He made it.

[Dr. Randall]

He might have killed one.

[Steve Rinella]

I don't know. We looked all over. I thought for sure it'd be dead, but we couldn't find it. Tried to trail it. So yeah, I'm a good driver.

[Corinne]

All crashes off road. None on road.

[Jordan]

None on road.

[Steve Rinella]

Off road like Baja. That's what we called it growing up.

[Dr. Randall]

Miami. Speeding ticket was with you in your truck. Remember that?

[Steve Rinella]

Who was driving?

[Dr. Randall]

I was.

[Jordan]

It was his speeding ticket in Wyoming.

[Chase Elliott]

How much faster?

[Steve Rinella]

I forgot about that.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah, speed limit.

[Dr. Randall]

I was like, I hope this cop, some young dude knows Steven Rinella. I look in the mirror at some white haired old dude, had no clue. 90 bucks.

[Steve Rinella]

I've been let go. I've been let off on some tickets and I got a minor ticket not long ago, but I was doing a good favor. Remember we did that giveaway where we brought chainsaws to all the dudes that are enrolled? Block management.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, I was dropping off my chainsaw and got a speeding ticket. But he lowered it down to like barely speeding. And I could just take care of it in the mail.

[Chase Elliott]

Now one time, a bunch of those.

[Steve Rinella]

He got a lot of barely speeding tickets.

[Chase Elliott]

Yep. I got one like. Well, it was a warning a couple weeks ago. And then you were. I mean, you know what my record is when I like drove. Oh yeah, but you never drove for like four hours.

[Dr. Randall]

I still think about that Texas, Texas road trip off.

[Steve Rinella]

She only. Yeah, like Crin hadn't driven for like 80 years. Then like drove a car for the first time and only drove over the.

[Chase Elliott]

Passing lane between Waco and Austin. And you guys about yourself.

[Steve Rinella]

One time when I was working for Ronnie, same guy I got the Econoline van from, he sends me out with like a lot of these guys that worked for Ronnie back in those days had felonies and couldn't drive. So you always had to drive because they had too many DUIs to drive. Well, one day we're with a guy, it was me, a dude named Scott and a dude named Bill Dutcher. And all I know is he just.

[Dan Flores]

Started working for Ronnie, okay?

[Steve Rinella]

He just is a brand new employee. All I know is his name's Bill, okay? All day everybody calls him Bill. This dude Scott's driving, Scott's. Scott gets pulled over for speeding. Cop comes up, the cops can just smell a fish. He has a turn to Bill Dutcher and something just speaks to this cop and he says, what's your name? And all of a sudden he's like, Randy or some shit, you know what I mean? And I'm like, wait a minute. Because all day you've been Bill Dutcher, you know? So he's like, randy. And he goes, let me see your id. He just knows, he knows. And he's like, I left it at home. So the cops like, okay. And he goes back to his cop car and we're sitting there and then it's never good. And all of a sudden like, here goes another cop car. Cop car. In front of our cop. In front of our car.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah, that's not good.

[Steve Rinella]

And they get out and tear. I mean, they tear our work truck apart. My toolbox. They went through my toolbox. I had a bottle of ibuprofen in my toolbox. They went through the bottle of ibuprofen.

[Chase Elliott]

Thorough.

[Steve Rinella]

Find Bill Dutcher's driver. Find Bill Dutcher's driver's license.

[Jordan]

What did he do?

[Steve Rinella]

Which he didn't have. Yeah.

[Jordan]

What was up with this dude? Why. Why was he so famous?

[Steve Rinella]

I. They hauled him away.

[Jordan]

And you never found. You never heard anything else about it?

[Steve Rinella]

I don't remember what his problem was. He had a warrant. I don't know, it was just like he was a short lived. He had a short lived tenure. Evidently that was his day.

[Dr. Randall]

You got any good speeding tickets, Chase?

[Jordan]

I honestly don't.

[Dr. Randall]

Are you lead foot off the track or just.

[Steve Rinella]

He doesn't drive. He doesn't drive a hot rod Car around.

[Jordan]

I don't. No.

[Steve Rinella]

That surprised me.

[Jordan]

No, somebody's phone's ringing.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, it's mine. Dude, this is always.

[Dr. Randall]

That's pretty normal.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, that's normal. No. All day long, man. Sam Bates weirdest with her.

[Dr. Randall]

She knows we're recording this show.

[Steve Rinella]

She doesn't care. Sam.

[Jordan]

No last ticket. I mean, I. I'll be honest. I've gotten a couple warnings. I've gotten off on a couple tickets for sure.

[Steve Rinella]

Do you tell them? Well, I'm a race car driver.

[Jordan]

No. That's the worst thing you can do.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh. Because I think he'd be like, well, you certainly know what you're doing.

[Dr. Randall]

Believe me, I know what I'm doing.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Chase Elliott]

No, but unless it's like, gosh, I just can't break the habit, you know.

[Jordan]

Like, I don't think that flies. No, I think. I think that immediately comes off as you're a smart ass and you're either going to jail or instead of taking your ticket down, we're gonna take or take it up.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

That does not work. But, yeah. No, it's been a bit. It's been a bit. And I'm a slow driver on the roads. I really am. Yeah.

[Corinne]

Except leaving the racetrack. The racetrack? When you leave, it's a race to the airport.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh. Can you introduce yourself, please?

[Corinne]

Yeah. I'm Jordan. I work with Chase.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay.

[Corinne]

Travel on the weekends to some races. So he's a madman leaving the racetrack.

[Jordan]

That's not. Not.

[Steve Rinella]

So when you leave, you just want to get out of there in a hurry.

[Jordan]

Well, five minutes can go a long way. And y' all think I'm crazy about this, but it really can. So, like, you know, the races gets over and people are leaving, and, you know, obviously you want to try to beat the traffic. So, like, if you mess around there for five minutes, it could be the difference in an hour.

[Dr. Randall]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan]

See what I mean?

[Dr. Randall]

Makes sense.

[Jordan]

So five minutes can be the difference in, you know, an hour plus. So, yeah, I'm in a slight rush.

[Steve Rinella]

Ready for all your credentials?

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Steve Rinella]

Elliot Chase Elliott won the 2014 NASCAR Nationwide Series championship, becoming the first rookie and the youngest driver to win a national series championship in NASCAR history. You were driving race cars before you had a driver's license?

[Jordan]

I was.

[Steve Rinella]

Did it feel weird to go get a driver's license?

[Jordan]

No, I don't think it felt weird. It probably felt weird racing without, like, racing older. Like, guys that were older than me and me not having a driver's license, you know, that was kind of a strange, Like, Few years, I would say.

[Steve Rinella]

Was it observed commonly that you didn't have a driver's license?

[Jordan]

Yeah, for sure. It was definitely a hot topic. But there were other kids out there that were under 16 that, that race too, so I wouldn't say it was uncommon, but it was definitely talked about.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Chase Elliott won the 2025 season opening exhibition race at Bowman Gray.

[Dr. Randall]

Mark, this is for 2025, 2024, 2025 stats. It says.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, well, okay. I just said the year he did, he got to. Oh, he did?

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah. Okay, never mind. So I thought he left the year out.

[Steve Rinella]

Marking his first Clash win. What the hell does that mean, to Clash Win?

[Jordan]

It's just a exhibition race that NASCAR holds every year. The Clash has always been around the sport for as long as I can remember. Kind of like the All Star Race over the summer, the Clash starts the season and that's just kind of what it's always been. It used to always be in Daytona for a long time. They would have the Clash the week before the Daytona 500. And now it's transitioned to some other places, but it's just the name of the race.

[Steve Rinella]

Because that's always been a weird thing about racing is you guys have your super bowl at the beginning.

[Jordan]

At the beginning. I feel the same way about it. Yeah, it's kind of weird.

[Steve Rinella]

It's like you start out with the super bowl, the one that everybody knows.

[Jordan]

And then what happens after that? Yeah, yeah, I, I find the same problem with it, for sure. I wish there was a better way to have it positioned in a different spot, selfishly, because it is such a big event and it's such a great event. If you've never been to the Daytona 500, I highly recommend you at least go see it once. It's worth seeing, but it is a. I always find it the most awkward part about it for me is answering questions about, you know, this is the super bowl of racing.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, so I just did an annoying thing.

[Jordan]

Yes, but that's okay. It's very normal.

[Steve Rinella]

Why did it seem an innocent place?

[Jordan]

You know, and that's. And most. And most of the time it is. And it's just an awkward thing to talk about and explain because it is such a big deal. But it is totally at the beginning of our season and it is not. You're not crowning a seasoned champion at that point, which is what the super bowl does, which is what, you know, the World Series does or, you know, whatever. So it's just a little different vibe, I guess. Probably more similar to say like the Masters or like the US Open. You know, you have some like marquee events in the middle of the season that aren't necessarily crowning your season long champion, but you still become a Daytona 500 champion if you win. Just like you would become, you know, a master champion or whatever. So I think it's probably more similar.

[Steve Rinella]

To that, but rather than chasing the final, like the final top victory.

[Jordan]

Yeah, just some. Just different. Just different.

[Steve Rinella]

Elliot is the only NASCAR Cup Series driver this season to finish all nine races in the top 20. I'm two.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's not a great stat. That's not top 20. That's not doing a whole bunch. But I mean it's good to finish them.

[Steve Rinella]

No, no, no, you're in the top 20. You finished all nine.

[Jordan]

I know, I heard you. But you want to be like, man, you finished all of them in the top 10.

[Steve Rinella]

Or like, oh, I can scratch that one out. Yeah, Phil can go back and get rid of it.

[Jordan]

I mean, look, I'm not. No, it's good. I mean it's good because you're going to have races that you.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, you're not gonna like this one.

[Jordan]

Oh, great.

[Steve Rinella]

He is currently fifth in the cup series point standings with two top five finishes and five top tens this season.

[Chase Elliott]

Yep, we like that better than the other.

[Steve Rinella]

Sounds good to me.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's a little better than the other one, but not by much.

[Steve Rinella]

Chase Elliott has three total wins on drafting st tracks. Two at Talladega and one at Atlanta Motor Speedway.

[Jordan]

Like that one Accurate winds are good.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. Chase Elliott rounded out the 2024 season with one win. Texas Motor Speedway, 11 top fives and 19 top 10 finishes.

[Chase Elliott]

That's a lot of racing.

[Jordan]

Yeah, there's 38 or 36 points races in a year, so. Yeah, a lot of lot to put that in. Like a better understanding, I guess.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, go ahead.

[Dr. Randall]

Are all speedways drafting style tracks or.

[Jordan]

What'S your definition of a speedway?

[Steve Rinella]

You're the one that used the word earlier.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, I would say Talladega. I consider speedways like Daytona and Talladega.

[Dr. Randall]

Okay.

[Jordan]

Atlanta is kind of an outlier because they. Atlanta is not really a speedway. It's a mile and a half where Daytona and Talladega are, you know, over two miles. So it's just they reconfigured the track and changed the rules a little bit to make it a drafting style track, but I wouldn't. It is now a speedway, but it's a much smaller speedway. Than the others.

[Steve Rinella]

A speedway means you get going real speedy because it's long. You have longer runs.

[Jordan]

Yep. It's a good way to put it.

[Steve Rinella]

I'm going to move this one a decimal place to make it better.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Steve Rinella]

Named one of NASCAR's 7.5 greatest drivers.

[Jordan]

Much better than 75. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take it. I'll take it.

[Steve Rinella]

One of NASCAR's 75 greatest drivers. But you're still young.

[Jordan]

Yeah, fairly.

[Steve Rinella]

You're young for a driver 29 years old.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not as young as I once was, but, yeah, I'm still on the younger side of the equation.

[Dr. Randall]

Well, who's the youngest right now?

[Jordan]

Who is the youngest right now? Who am I think. Who am I missing?

[Corinne]

There's some rookies this year. Jose. Don't know how old he is, but it's got to be pretty young.

[Jordan]

Yeah, he would have to be pretty young.

[Steve Rinella]

How old are you, Seth?

[Dr. Randall]

33.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, Seth's gonna give you some life advice.

[Jordan]

Great. I need it. I can't. I don't. I can't right off the top of my head, but there's probably some guys in their early 20s, I would say, right now.

[Steve Rinella]

Really? Okay. You want more?

[Jordan]

Not really.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, here's a good one. Here's a good one.

[Corinne]

Who wrote this?

[Jordan]

Right? Yeah. Who did this?

[Steve Rinella]

7 time consecutive winner of the NASCAR Cup Series most popular driver award.

[Dr. Randall]

You like that one?

[Steve Rinella]

2020 NASCAR Cup Series champion. 2020 NASCAR All Star race winner at Bristol Motor Speedway. 2014 NASCAR Xfinity Series champion. And he's the son of hall of fame inductee and 16 time most popular driver. 16 times more popular than you are.

[Jordan]

Good. Chunk. Yeah, he's got me covered.

[Steve Rinella]

His father, Bill Elliott.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Steve Rinella]

More popular than you.

[Jordan]

That's. Yes, he. He is to this day more popular than me.

[Steve Rinella]

Is he a good dad, though?

[Jordan]

Yeah, he's been a good dad.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, all right. So you don't have any complaints about him?

[Jordan]

No, I can't complain much.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. Amazon Prime Video sponsoring chase. That's cool. Free videos.

[Jordan]

You know, I haven't talked to them about that, but I would totally love to get a free.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Prime subscription if it's currently Amazon Prime.

[Chase Elliott]

And then you still drafts it.

[Jordan]

Still drafts off the credit card. Sure. Does she talk to them?

[Steve Rinella]

You know, like. I bet. Yeah. But I would think that you do all that, then you go to get a video and they ding you of 299.

[Jordan]

Yeah, but also, you know, I'm. I'm proud. I'm A. I'm a proud supporter of. Of our own product. So. You know what? It's okay.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, no, that's a. It's a great ser. My wife worked for many years for Amazon.

[Jordan]

Did she?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. He has a few races coming up, but the big, big one is the Coca Cola 600, which will live stream on Amazon prime on May 25th.

[Dan Flores]

Really?

[Jordan]

Sure will.

[Chase Elliott]

Is that.

[Jordan]

That's the first. That's the first one. Yeah. The first one on prime this year. So is that going to be a.

[Steve Rinella]

Pay to play on prime or is it going to be just open?

[Jordan]

Well, you have to have a Prime subscription.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, but I mean, if it's not like a added.

[Jordan]

No, it'd be like Thursday Night Football, you know, for the. What, the NFL's on the last, what, two seasons? I think.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah, I think it's been two, so.

[Jordan]

Yeah, same thing.

[Steve Rinella]

With prices going up on just about.

[Dan Flores]

Everything lately and fixing to go up a whole bunch more, being smart with your money isn't just a good idea. It is essential. But managing subscriptions, tracking spending, and cutting costs can feel overwhelming. Well, lucky for you, Rocket Money takes.

[Steve Rinella]

The guesswork out of it, so you.

[Dan Flores]

Can easily make smarter decisions. What is Rocket Money? Well, it's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions and monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money has over 5 million users.

[Steve Rinella]

They've saved those users a total of.

[Dan Flores]

$500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. The new goals feature automatically saves money for you so you don't have to think about it. Help pay off bills, put away money for a house, or just build your savings. Rocket Money makes it easy. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions, Reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show. Name the Me Eater podcast in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show.

[Talkspace Sponsor]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness Month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back. Whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through, it's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider to typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's Spa CE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Dan Flores]

Steve Rinella here. The American west with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time wild animals, native peoples in the west, unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores On Apple, Spotify, iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.

[Steve Rinella]

Corinne.

[Chase Elliott]

You could have scratched this one.

[Steve Rinella]

No, no, because I'm not going to talk about what I'm not going to talk. Corinne pulls together. People send us all kinds of stuff and Corinne takes her picks of what she thinks she's going to put into this. We have a document, if you ever looked that. We're looking at a laptop.

[Jordan]

You're all looking at laptops and I'm not.

[Steve Rinella]

No, you don't get to. And we like people to feel left out.

[Jordan]

Okay, that's good.

[Chase Elliott]

Well, I do this one. This one dinged into my feed, actually.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh. So she found it on her own.

[Chase Elliott]

I thought it was funny and she liked it.

[Steve Rinella]

Corinne likes this one from peep. She likes this hit from People magazine. It's under the Royals column. Oh, wow. She likes it so much she included it in the. In the talking points here and then tried to back out of it. So if you, if you want to get into Kin's head, here's something that Kin sees and she's like, yeah, it's this Princess Charlotte. I didn't know that that was that kid's name.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah, I mean, I didn't really either.

[Steve Rinella]

Princess Charlotte's 10th birthday photo had a surprising royal first thanks to Kate Middleton.

[Dan Flores]

I'm.

[Corinne]

I'm a little lost over here.

[Jordan]

Somebody's going to help.

[Steve Rinella]

What part did you get lost on? On this. On the document.

[Corinne]

On how you're going to bring this back to the conversation.

[Chase Elliott]

The only reason why.

[Jordan]

We totally left.

[Steve Rinella]

So let me totally switch gears. Yeah, here's how it works.

[Jordan]

Because I was worried too. I was like, man, where is this going?

[Steve Rinella]

I should have told you. Here's how it works.

[Jordan]

We went to Princess Charlotte.

[Steve Rinella]

We, we, we open, we open a show up. 9 out of 10 times. You open a show up and you'll introduce the guest. Okay. You don't really want them to say that much. You just want them to kind of sit there and you introduce them. Then we do, like, interesting things from the news. Corrections, listener feedback.

[Corinne]

I gotcha.

[Steve Rinella]

And then we do the guest interview. Perfect. But if. Because it's on video. Right. So if you didn't introduce the person, people are wondering, who's that person sitting there? And I don't think people like the part of the show where we do the news.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Chase Elliott]

I think they want to hear from the guests primarily.

[Steve Rinella]

So you want to get. You let them know there is a guest so they don't all stop listening. But then what? The part that we like is the news.

[Jordan]

You force them to hang around for it.

[Dr. Randall]

And then we start with, do a little bit for the guests. Then we do a little bit for us. And then. And then go back.

[Steve Rinella]

All right.

[Chase Elliott]

So that we don't take 25 minutes on this first news item. The only reason why I thought it was funny.

[Steve Rinella]

She had a camouflage jacket.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah. Is that. It's the first. It's not like I follow People magazine number one. It's not like I finally follow news of the UK royal. Yes. Thanks. Thanks to Apple News. She's got fed in.

[Steve Rinella]

Is that Mossy Oak?

[Chase Elliott]

It. It's not an American brand. I look really, really, really closely and it's, it's, it's a British brand.

[Steve Rinella]

They really bury the lead.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah. The news.

[Steve Rinella]

The headline doesn't have it. The next line doesn't have it. And then. Because they know they don't really have much writer. They don't have much.

[Chase Elliott]

I, I thought it was going to be a little bit more about how she was outdoors. Clearly somewhere in the Elements wearing her camo or that maybe it was going to be like she was on a hunting trip with the family. It wasn't that. It was that her mom is an amateur photographer and took this portrait with her iPhone. But.

[Steve Rinella]

And she's got a camo jacket.

[Chase Elliott]

Yes, and she's got a camo jacket. Moving on.

[Steve Rinella]

That tickles, Corinne.

[Dr. Randall]

This is going to be one of the social clips, by the way. I'm just letting you know.

[Steve Rinella]

That tickles, Corinne. I always tell my kids, as Americans, they have an obligation to dislike that royal family because we had to fight a big war against those guys.

[Chase Elliott]

But you know, this young girl is celebrating the outdoors. That's something new. Is she like them for. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Randall]

Or the camo is just a little trendy right now.

[Steve Rinella]

You think having the simple act of having on a camo jacket is celebrating the outdoors?

[Chase Elliott]

No, but she's it, you know, it looks like she's somewhere outdoors adventuring somehow.

[Steve Rinella]

Look who's celebrating the outdoors over here.

[Corinne]

Yeah, we got the camera over here.

[Chase Elliott]

He was outdoors.

[Corinne]

No outdoor background here though, so I.

[Jordan]

Don'T know if I can't.

[Steve Rinella]

A while back I made up a saying that I talked about so much that people asked me to stop talking about it. I made up a saying, a fresh set of eyes will always find more beans. And it's a, it's a gardening saying. This guy's wife, he wrote in to say his brilliant wife came up with an old time saying of her own. All leaves and no branches.

[Dr. Randall]

I kind of like it.

[Steve Rinella]

I don't like it. I'm not going to use that.

[Chase Elliott]

Are you going to explain meaning an.

[Steve Rinella]

Argument looks great or seemingly great but there's no structure or support to the argument.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah, makes sense.

[Chase Elliott]

I like that one.

[Steve Rinella]

I'm not going to use it. And I bet you don't use it.

[Dr. Randall]

I'll probably forget about it in an hour.

[Jordan]

I'm not going to use it. Mainly because I forget about it.

[Steve Rinella]

Interview.

[Corinne]

That's a good challenge.

[Jordan]

I mean it is a, it's a good challenge for sure.

[Steve Rinella]

In a post race interview you can say like, you know what I always say? All leaves and no branches.

[Jordan]

All these. No branches. I'd have to really think about that one. But yeah, I don't, I don't think that one's coming back.

[Steve Rinella]

A guy was hunting on Kodiak island this past season and he got a banded. He shot a black scolder with a band on it. It's type of duck. The band was severely worn. I've heard that Those bands. When you see a band, my kid's buddy at high school killed a gold knife, a banded golden eye. You know we're talking about a band.

[Jordan]

I don't.

[Steve Rinella]

So one of the ways they really kind of uncovered the mysteries of migratory waterfowl is many, many decades ago. They started, I don't know what year, but they started this program where they'll take a. They'll put them, they'll catch fledgling birds, they'll catch ducks and they can also use, they can also catch adults using trap nets and stuff. And they'll fit them with a metal band, with a number, with a phone number and a number. And it says like if found or if recovered or whatever, call blank number. Because picture you got a duck in Canada in the summertime and you put a band on it. It's hard to believe now, but they didn't know how they went, where they went and how they went. You didn't know like where who went where. And so they would write down where it was when they put the band on it. And then they start. All these bands start flooding in from hunters getting the ducks. And they were able to put together this very detailed map of like ducks that are here go there, ducks that are here go there. Which was not well understood prior to that. But when a band gets to be a certain age, it starts to wear. And Mark Pierce was telling me that. I can't remember which one it is. Oh, that. Diver ducks. For whatever reason, diver ducks bands get worn down faster than puddle duck bands or the opposite.

[Dr. Randall]

Wonder if that has anything to do with like the rocks along the coast or something.

[Steve Rinella]

Or it could have been the opposite. I can't remember.

[Jordan]

How long does a duck live?

[Steve Rinella]

Well, you're gonna hear one right now.

[Jordan]

Here we go.

[Steve Rinella]

Check this out. This is extraordinary though. Well, we killed a crane one time. We killed a sandhill crane in the panhandle of Texas that everybody claimed once they realized they had a band like everybody claimed to have gotten that one. And it had been banded as an adult 17 years earlier in Fairbanks, outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. So he killed this guy, kills a scoter, he couldn't even read the band, the band was so worn. But he sends it, he sends it into the USGS bird band lab and they acid etched the band and they could find, they could find the number. Turns out this bird is the new longevity record for a black scoter that son of been wearing that. Old enough to drink beer. A 21 year old wild duck.

[Chase Elliott]

Oh my gosh.

[Dr. Randall]

Jeez.

[Steve Rinella]

Old Enough to drink beer.

[Jordan]

So what would average be?

[Steve Rinella]

2.

[Jordan]

Really?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. I don't know. That'd be an easy thing to find out. But no, I mean, like a lot of guys, you know, a lot of guys. You kill a band of duck and you know what you find out? They banded it earlier that year.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, 21 years old.

[Jordan]

Dang, that's.

[Chase Elliott]

Wow.

[Steve Rinella]

The previous record was 14.

[Chase Elliott]

Jeez.

[Steve Rinella]

You know me decoys. And that bird's been shot at.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah, 100 for sure.

[Jordan]

In 21 years, you maybe even shot, but survived.

[Steve Rinella]

They don't ban a lot of those. Oh, here's something interesting. This is illegal, but interesting.

[Jordan]

You like illegal according to your driving.

[Steve Rinella]

So I was talking about one of the most interesting days I've ever spent was in the south southern end of the Philippines, and I spent the day at the cockfights. And guy here says, you have an open invitation to get a hold of me anytime you're in Kentucky. I should not read this out loud.

[Corinne]

Might not want to name drop on this.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, True.

[Steve Rinella]

He goes on to say, I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you guys are interested in going to some fighting. There are tons of. He goes on. There are tons of hypocrisies by public and lawmakers. They're trying to make it a felony in the state of Kentucky. It's already a felony elsewhere. Is it legal to pile chickens in their own on top of each other their whole life, and then drag them out and cut their heads off and throw them in a sinkhole? Yep. But you can't cockfight.

[Chase Elliott]

He says game chickens are taken care of better than most people's dogs. So I guess those who live run in these circles, take really good care of those birds.

[Steve Rinella]

The Hmong.

[Chase Elliott]

Not sure about this one until the end.

[Steve Rinella]

I. I learned that through my Hmong friends. That there's the. The older Hmong cock fighting was very popular with the older Hmong, but they don't put the. They don't use a blade. Was I explaining this? Yeah.

[Dr. Randall]

How they attach blades to the legs of these birds. Like fake spurs.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Well, in the Philippines, they put like a scythe on them. I mean, they put a. There's a guy. There's like a regulation dude. You know, like in boxing, there's like, like, like the kind of, you know, you wrap the hands and everything, and they check, like, everything's got to be checked to make sure you're, you know, you don't have, like, lead inserts or something in your mitts. Right. There's a dude and like every guy brings his rooster in and, and you lash those, the blades on him over his spurs, this big stainless blade. And then there's a guy that like checks to make sure everything's legit. And when these roosters, it's over, like they jump up and do their initial cha cha fight and one of them is not alive anymore because they got blades. But what they're explaining about the Hmong is you don't put blades on them. So it's not.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah, so they're more.

[Steve Rinella]

And you kind of judge it. You kind of judge it. And what will happen is one chicken, one rooster will, the minute he backs down, he loses. Ah, it's a, it's very interesting. Yeah, it's much more, it's much more kinder, gentler.

[Dr. Randall]

Cock fight. Yes. More humane.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, it's like you take like, here's the deal. They're not incentivizing the roosters to fight. The roosters want to fight. I could see you saying, you can't put a blade on him. That makes like, I could, I could picture that. But if, like, if, let's say you're, you are at your, you say you raise chickens and you go in the house and, and then accidentally two of your roosters get in a fight. Are you a felon?

[Chase Elliott]

I was actually just going to ask that. What if roosters all person mingle and.

[Dr. Randall]

No, but if I bring a bunch of people over and we throw some money down.

[Jordan]

Then you are.

[Dr. Randall]

Then you are.

[Jordan]

Then you're in trouble.

[Steve Rinella]

That's what one guy that wrote and explained to me about it is. He says, what's, what's the bad part about it is the betting. The bad part is the betting on what chicken's going to win. That's all I, I want to clarify to people, I haven't been to a fight. I've never been to a fight in America. I'm not like Joe Cock fight.

[Dr. Randall]

When I was living in Pennsylvania, we had 29 chickens in the bear. One night, broke in chicken coop, killed 28.

[Steve Rinella]

Wow.

[Dr. Randall]

And the only one that was left was a big old rooster, had like 3 inch spurs. And I, I felt that he would have been a good candidate for.

[Steve Rinella]

Yep.

[Jordan]

A fight.

[Chase Elliott]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Only a good candidate though, right?

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah. Then I basically, I was checking traps one day and I had one of his spurs in my trap. Almost caught him, but just got his spur.

[Steve Rinella]

Are you ready for the part now?

[Jordan]

I don't know. Am I?

[Steve Rinella]

First off, we went fishing today.

[Jordan]

We did?

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Well, we went, yeah, we went Fishing. We didn't get any. We didn't do any catching.

[Steve Rinella]

But we didn't think about that whole experience, though.

[Jordan]

I thought it was awesome. I really did.

[Steve Rinella]

You liked it?

[Jordan]

I mean, minus the not catching anything.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You know, but that's part of it.

[Steve Rinella]

But it's a hard, hard time of year.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Steve Rinella]

With all the spring runoff.

[Jordan]

But it was. And we talked about it some on the way up there, but just being out there, I mean, just. You guys have such a pure place to live and film and do, and, I mean, just the hike up and back was worth the trip.

[Steve Rinella]

No.

[Jordan]

You know, in my opinion. Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. It is beautiful. It's frustrating to not catch them.

[Jordan]

It is frustrating.

[Steve Rinella]

And then. And you're in my situation, you got to resist the urge to be like.

[Dan Flores]

We caught one right there. We caught one right there.

[Jordan]

When the cameras were two miles back.

[Steve Rinella]

We caught one right there. Right. Yeah.

[Jordan]

It was okay, though. I mean, I. In fairness, you did put me on one that I missed, and that was on me.

[Steve Rinella]

That was on you. He had it engulfed.

[Jordan]

That was on me. I was like, that was late.

[Steve Rinella]

It was your fish to catch.

[Jordan]

It was. And that's all right. I learned my lesson.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

It's good, though.

[Steve Rinella]

We talked about. He started driving super young, and I was asking you earlier, maybe you can explain it. I was saying, if you're gonna ask little kids what they want to be when they grow up, being a race car driver is like, in top five, 100. It's like. He's like, you could be like, a veterinarian. They know about that. Astronauts, they know about. They know about being a race car driver.

[Jordan]

I know. Which is kind of odd, but true. You're totally right about that.

[Steve Rinella]

But at a point, you. At a point, it looked realistic.

[Jordan]

Yep. Yeah. I mean, honestly. And I don't know how much of that you want me to re. Go over. Yeah, for me, I mean, I. I never. I truthfully never wanted to do anything else. I mean, it was always. It was always my dream, and I grew up around it. My dad raced, you know, so much like your kids are living the outdoors and getting to do things that a lot of kids might not be able to do across the country. I was. Racing was that way for me. I got to see it from a completely different vantage point. And, you know, for me, my dad was. He was a part of the show on a weekly basis, and it was just the most incredible, crazy thing to witness and watch as a 5, 6, 7 year old when you're just kind of getting Old enough to start understanding or partially start to understand what's going on. And it was amazing. And so, of course, I wanted to try. I wanted to. To do that, you know, and give it a shot. And. Yeah, so we started racing go karts and then started taking the necessary steps and in the process of trying to make a path out of it. And, yeah, off we went. And fortunately had enough right opportunities and. And success at the right time, and all those stars kind of aligned to, you know, at least make a career out of it this far.

[Steve Rinella]

Were you drawn to it because, like, the way kids are kind of focused on their dads because at a point that has to go away, right? Like, you know, when you're little, you know about your dad and you see what he does, you're like, well, I want to do that because I like my dad. But at a point, not that you stop liking your dad, but, you know, your. Your in your inputs become more complicated than that, right?

[Jordan]

Yeah, totally fair question. And. And true. Because, yeah, I think there comes a point in time where you at some point have to have some natural interest and you have to become. You have to have your own obsession with it. Right. Or it's just never gonna. It's never gonna work. And that definitely happened. I don't know at what age that happened. Probably when things got, you know, we're starting to get more serious. For me, racing, I would say probably 10, 11, 12, that probably transitioned from, hey, I want to go do this, because dad was doing it and it was really cool to, wow. This is a extremely difficult and rare discipline that I really respect and admire. And that was really where I think the love for it, for me, exploded, because I realized there was just so much more to the puzzle than meets the eye. And also that way more than I think people ever give it credit for. And just the craft and everything that goes on behind the scenes. And I fell in love with that. And that's really the reason that, you know, I enjoy it still to this day.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, when I look at it, like when we were talking today and you're talking about, like, you said, like, use the word, the craft of it, right? And the processing. Processing information very quickly, learning how to try to slow things that seem very fast, short distances that are covered very quickly, to slow it down and understand it like how you'd understand a long drive.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Steve Rinella]

All that as, like, a person not from that world. When I look at it, I think that the number one. Like, the number one thing going on is that I think These people are very comfortable with death. And I'm like, that must be what makes a good racer.

[Jordan]

Yeah. And it's, it's not.

[Steve Rinella]

It's where you have to be like, no, I don't mind. Yeah, I don't mind being right going 200 miles an hour, 6 inches off this dude's bumper or whatever. Like that's like, to me like the defining feature is you're comfortable with that.

[Jordan]

I think there is definitely a level of acceptance to the risk for all of us. And there are certainly tracks that carry higher risk than other tracks as it pertains to crashes and injury and just the amount of things that can go wrong. But you know, to your point, you're going pretty fast on a weekly basis at most places that we go and things can happen anywhere. So yeah, I definitely think there's a level of acceptance with that. But I would say I could speak for probably all of us in the sense that we don't get there. You know, it's like I explained to you coming over here, you know, if you're driving 80 through downtown Bozeman, you're going to think you're hauling ass. If you're driving 80 on the highway, everyone else is doing 80. So it's not that big of a deal. So it's very much the same for us. I, I can say there's really no thrill anymore about going 200. It's not.

[Chase Elliott]

I would have a heart attack and die.

[Jordan]

Right. But you wouldn't after. You might the first time, but in a month you'd be, it would, your, your surroundings would become very much more normal to you. And that's totally what happens. So then it's like so, so, so the thrill factor of it goes away after time and, and then you start focusing in on more of like the small little fine details of how can I push the car a little further? You know, it becomes such a, it becomes so much more competition based than it does that. It's, it's way more centered around that than it is like, oh, wow, you know, just holding on for dear life going 200 miles an hour and this is cool and crazy and wow, look at us. It's not, that's, that's, that's just not the mindset. It's, it's so much more competition related and the details that can make someone great versus someone that's good are the most minuscule things that you could ever. I can't even hardly sit here and describe them to you because a lot of it's just tiny little feel things in the car that you're feeling with your butt or with your hands or what you're seeing with your eyes. And that kind of comes back to the processing things, you know, as, as quick as things are happening. The slower you can process that stuff, I think the better it makes a a driver.

[Dan Flores]

This show is sponsored in part by Better Help. Now I know that there is a stigma, especially among guys. I find a stigma against using therapy because people might think it was weak. I was actually raised differently where my dad was quite open about the fact of having relied on therapy after coming home from the war to make some adjustments. Well, mental health awareness is growing, but there's still some progress to be made. 26% of Americans who participated in a recent survey say they have avoided seeking mental health support due to a fear of judgment. When people hesitate to get help, though.

[Steve Rinella]

It doesn't just affect them.

[Dan Flores]

It impacts families, workplaces, entire communities. This is Mental Health Awareness Month, so let's encourage everyone to take care of their well being and break the stigma. The world is better when people are healthy and happy. BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist from their diverse network of more than 30,000 licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com meater to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com me eater nothing to be ashamed of.

[Talkspace Sponsor]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone let's face it in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace. When you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE80 to match with a licensed therapist today. Go to talkspace.com and enter Promo Code SPACE80.

[Steve Rinella]

You had said something to me that I thought about a bunch since you told me this morning. I was talking about what is the. What is the entry point for kids coming in. And you talked about like, go kart racing, dirt track racing, and you said, what matters more? What matters more than like, what it is, is, is it competitive?

[Jordan]

Yeah, true.

[Steve Rinella]

And I started thinking about that because that, that has, like, I feel that just things from my life, like I went to writing school and I went to like a very competitive writing program with like, really good writers. And you, like, there's such like a sink or swim kind of thing about it, you know, and even like guys that become. Guys that become like, really good, versatile hunters, like people you could bring anywhere, like, bring them anywhere, and they're going to figure stuff out. A lot of them coming out of competitive app, like, you got to like, work harder, get up earlier, walk farther, outsmart out. Think, Jimmy, like, you have to like, learn to deal, and then that makes it that you develop your expertise. But I don't think people think about it like, no, you got to look for the competition 100%.

[Jordan]

That's my opinion. And someone else might tell you something different, but I think that, you know, when you ask the question, it's, well, how do you start? You know, like, if, if your kids were interested in it, like, what would you go do? And that varies because in some parts of the country, asphalt racing might be really strong and healthy and popular. And if it's strong and healthy and popular, odds are it's going to be more competitive. Are there other types of racing you could go do? Yeah, probably so. But if it's not as healthy and popular, then you're probably not getting the same level of competition. So I think it is very much tailored to where you live, where you're from, what part of the country you live in, and what is going to challenge you the most. Because if you're not, if you're not challenged, you're, you know, at some point that's gonna, that's gonna beat you up, you know, and racing's one of those things where, when you, when you get started, you know, a family could probably win their way with spending the most money to a point, but at some point that, that's gonna end, right? At some point you're gonna meet somebody that's as good as you, if not better, with the same equipment. And then how do you deal with that? And I think that's A. You know, that's an important piece of racing because it's, you know, at some point down the line that that challenge is going to grow near. And I think understanding how to. How to deal with that, you know, to your point, kind of that. That mindset is going to help you one day.

[Steve Rinella]

I'd heard this story through my kids about a kid that, like a buddy of theirs that was like a dominating force in Bozeman baseball, which is not. This is not a baseball town, you know, so, like, you're a dominating force in Bozeman baseball, like in high school. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Steve Rinella]

But then he goes down to Florida and then how.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

And you're like, oh, I had no idea.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, insane.

[Steve Rinella]

I mean, like, I had no idea, dude.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Like, that exact thing. That's a great example, and I'll probably use that one day because that's. That's a great way to put it. And. And totally this along the exact same lines. I, you know, I was talking.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. You saying that made me kind of rethink some of that stuff. Be like, well, yeah. Why do all these, like, you know, like, Texas cranks out, you know, great football.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, Florida cranks out all these great baseball players and, like, is it like the water. You know, it winds up being. Well, yeah. It's like you're saying. It's like you've pl. You've created a place where people have to dig deeper and deeper and deeper to stay on top, and you can't just ease on top.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Dr. Randall]

And you can do it all year long down there.

[Steve Rinella]

There's. Yeah, that's a big part, too. We talk about that, too.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, that. That's a fact. For that. That's totally a factor.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You know, out here, for sure. For the. At least for baseball and, you know, golf, if you're into that.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Out here, be a struggle to play for two months.

[Dr. Randall]

Y.

[Steve Rinella]

Do you think. Are you just. Is it, like, more about competition or is it more about cars? Like, if you didn't. If you didn't race, would you be. Would you. Do you feel you found some other thing to compete in?

[Jordan]

I could see it for sure. I don't know what that would be, but I just. I love sports, just in general. I'm just a huge sports fan. Love watching. I'm not going to sit here and tell you I know everything about every other sport, but I certainly appreciate the discipline of other sports. And, you know, some of the greatness and the greats that. That play it or are part of it. So having said that, I could see it. I don't know what it would have been. I wasn't super good at anything else, but also didn't, you know, in fairness, I never really devoted a lot of time to any other sport, but I could have certainly seen me trying, you.

[Steve Rinella]

Know, if nothing else, competition, Trout, fisherman.

[Jordan]

Maybe that. Maybe that.

[Steve Rinella]

Are you good at golf? You play golf?

[Jordan]

Go check out those brook trout, you know I'm talking about. Yes, sir.

[Steve Rinella]

Are you like. Could you go pro at golf?

[Jordan]

Oh, absolutely not.

[Steve Rinella]

No, no. What was it like when you. So you go through all the. Well, I don't. I don't know. I was going to ask you. You go through all the steps that all of a sudden you're like, you know, your first NASCAR race. What are the steps? Help me understand, like, what, what is like the thing you got, you know, it's like t. Like, like T ball, Little league, you know, like, what does it go?

[Jordan]

Well, kind of goes back to where you live and how you start. But for me, it was when I first got into racing, you know, which was kind of those early days of I want to do this because dad was doing it right at that point. It was. We were living in Georgia and there were some small dirt go kart tracks around North Georgia just within, you know, hour and a half, two hours of the house. And we went and, you know, raced some go kart races on the weekends.

[Steve Rinella]

Like good go karts?

[Jordan]

Yeah, like fast, you know, fairly fast for six or. Well, I guess I was probably closer to eight, but seven or eight year old. Okay, so like within reason. We're not doing anything crazy, but, you know, it was, it was competitive for sure and also really popular at that time in that area, which was a good thing, you know, kind of going back to our previous point. And so, yeah, from the go karts at that time, dad was just quitting racing full time. So we moved out to Colorado and we were out there for two or three years and I wanted to race. And really the only thing out there to race was go karts, but asphalt and road courses. So did that for, you know, two or three years while we were living out there and really kind of came to a crossroads. I guess I was kind of the reason why we moved back because I at that point thought I wanted to keep racing and trying to race, and there really just wasn't anything else to race out west or at least out in that area that was close and you know, you're going to end up traveling a long ways to do it and didn't really have the facilities to do it and shot, you know, a good race shop and things like that. So we ended up moving back to Georgia to kind of help me pursue the racing thing.

[Steve Rinella]

And so your old man got out of it and moved out west, and then all of a sudden you're like, well, I want a piece of it too. And then he packs up, everybody moves back.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, I ruined it for him. So. Sorry. Sorry about his retirement trail, but I. I definitely ruined that one. But, yeah, so we. We moved back to Georgia and that was really. At that point, I think that was kind of when it started to transition from hobby, fun weekend endeavor to, hey, we're either going to get kind of serious about this and not that you can't go have fun because it was, you know, still having fun is important, but it was, hey, we need to have an understanding. Like, this is, you know, getting more expensive and. And there's a lot going on and.

[Steve Rinella]

And so you're spending money before you make money.

[Jordan]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Steve Rinella]

I can imagine, dude.

[Jordan]

Yeah. And that's part of it, you know, for sure. And. And that's the case for anyone in motorsports, unfortunately. And it's just, to what level can you support that? You know, whether people support that personally or, you know, for us, it was a little bit of a mix from, you know, dad having a good career, obviously, and, and being able to help. But then we had good partners, too. That kind of help offset some of that. But even for us, there was a point, and, and my, you know, dad was really clear on this to me at a young age. He's like, hey, you know, I can. We can keep doing this, like we're doing it, but it's not forever. You know, I'm not going to do this forever either we're going to get to a point and somebody's going to have to help, or this is it, you know, and. And I understood that, you know, and. And so at that point and probably a little before that conversation, I knew that and really started to try my best to take things as serious as I could and, you know, still enjoy it. But. But just I knew in the back of my mind, like, hey, this is no longer a game, you know, not that it ever was, but. But it's really not a game anymore. And if I'm gonna make an effort at this, I'm gonna give it everything I have, and I'm gonna make sure that, you know, I appreciate everything that all the people that are helping me do this right now, you know, given my all, and, and, you know, try to make a proper run at it. And so that's what we did. You know, unfortunately, it, you know, it worked out.

[Steve Rinella]

So when. When is it that you go and like, there's 38 races a year?

[Dan Flores]

34.

[Steve Rinella]

38.

[Jordan]

38, yep.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. What was the, the first time you.

[Jordan]

Are in, like, in NASCAR?

[Steve Rinella]

NASCAR.

[Jordan]

So my first cup race was in 2016.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay.

[Jordan]

No, I'm sorry. My first cup race was in 15, and I ran like five that year. So NASCAR had a thing. I was racing nationwide, like you talked about on the thing that changed to what's now called the Xfinity Series. It's like the basically college level, you know, college football to NFL, I guess, would be the best way to put it. So I did that full time in 2014 and 2015. At the time, NASCAR had a rule that you could run up to like five or six races before your rookie campaign that didn't like, take away your rookie status. So it was almost like a lead into your rookie year.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

So in 20, mentor program, which I needed and probably still need today. But nonetheless, we, you know, went in and, and at that time, it had been announced that Jeff Gordon was retiring. And, you know, I was going in that car the next year. I, I knew who my crew was going to be and, and all that. So basically my crew chief, who is still my crew chief now, he and Jeff and, and, and Rick and I don't remember who else, but kind of got together and picked five races that they felt like was going to be the best five for me to go do. So those are my first cup starts in 2015. And they were some. They were some good ones for sure. They were tough races and they, they picked those for a reason because they knew that they were going to be challenges the next year and the next year and the year after that.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And so, so, you know, that was my, my first one. It was at Martinsville and in 2015. And yeah, it didn't go well, but we went and made the show and got it kicked off.

[Steve Rinella]

We had this former NFL player on, Derek Wolfe, and he was taught. He mentioned something that hadn't occurred to me before about coming up in the league is you're coming up as a rookie and you're young and he's like. And all of a sudden you're on the field and it's like you're on the field with guys you've Been watching Weird for 10 years. And he said there's actually like a starstruck element to it for some people where you'd be like, oh, my God, there's Tom Brady. Right. And you're supposed to tackle him or whatever. And he says you're kind of, like, overwhelmed by. You got to put it out of your head. But all of a sudden you're like, with the people that motivated you and inspired you to get in there.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, it's gotta be a little bit like that.

[Jordan]

It was, yeah, very much that way.

[Steve Rinella]

Like, oh, my God, there's that one dude.

[Jordan]

Yeah, no, it was. I mean, you know, Tony Stewart, who I was, you know, a big fan of and a guy that I looked up to, he was racing. He was still full time at that point. You know, Jimmy Johnson, Casey Kane, like, all those guys were in the show that weekend. And. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure everybody's been through that, that's grown up watching a sport that has ever had the opportunity to go and play or race or be a part of it. And yeah, there's a transitional point of kind of just being in awe of being there, to trying to earn your place, to establishing, you know, your position as being a competitor to those guys and not their friends or not their fans, you know, anymore.

[Steve Rinella]

And.

[Jordan]

And not that you can't like a guy or still be a fan of theirs, but you're in there, you know, you're in there and it's a, you know, it's definitely a competitive environment. And at some point that, you know, that totally changes.

[Steve Rinella]

Talk about how something. Another thing that had never occurred to me before, how blazing hot it is in there.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's a little. Little toasty, for sure.

[Steve Rinella]

Like, that's like one of the main problems.

[Jordan]

It is, it is. I don't know how hot it gets anymore. I don't. I don't. I can't remember what a good number is. Probably 115, 20 or something in the car. Does that sound right? Ish. Yeah, I think so, when they have, like a thermometer. But, yeah, hot nonetheless. And that's what we were talking about. You know, so much of what we do, I think, is kind of hard to train for because what other activity do you do that, you know, the environment's really hot? You have an extremely high heart rate, but you don't have a lot of physical movement, you know, and that's just a. Those are three things that are kind of hard to. To piece together. But I do think from a Cardio standpoint, that's probably, you know, the biggest one that can help. Hydration, I would say, is another one. And then ultimately, I think those two things combined together is kind of your ultimate goal. And all of it is just heart rate control and, you know, trying to keep your heart rate down.

[Steve Rinella]

What do you do to do it? Because that's like a big. Like you talk to competitive spear fishermen or free divers, they got all these. They got all these tricks and methods for it. But a lot of times you're just laying on the surface of the water and you don't need to be doing anything else. Yeah, like, all you're doing is getting your heart rate under control and focusing on your breathing. You can close your eyes if you want, and you're buoyant at the surface. So it's like you're doing all these tricks, but you're not doing anything else. You're not moving 200 miles an hour, right? Yeah. So like, how, like, do you actually keep your heart rate under control, meaning through methodology, or does it just mean that you just hope your heart. You just hope your heart rate stays normal?

[Jordan]

I mean, I think it's probably more of a mental game than it is anything. And so much of. You know, another thing that I think makes a guy good versus great is the ones who can be most comfortable in the uncomfortable parts of the racetrack or parts of a corner. There's always a. You know, anywhere you go, any racetrack on any given weekend, there's going to be a part of a racetrack that is the most uncomfortable place. Like, that is going to be a thing regardless of where you're at and what you're doing. And typically the guys that are least bothered by that are going to excel, you know, the most. And, you know, I think having your heart rate under control and, and being comfortable in whatever that environment or that challenge is that weekend is just setting yourself, you know, set. Setting yourself up better for success because, you know, you're comfortable in. In those positions. And I think that makes a big difference.

[Dr. Randall]

What about the. The track that makes it uncomfortable?

[Jordan]

What about it?

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah, like you said, there's like a portion.

[Jordan]

Yeah, there's typically a portion of.

[Dr. Randall]

What is it?

[Jordan]

I would say, generally speaking, most of the time it's on corner entry. You know, corner entry typically is the most uncomfortable part of the track because you're going the fastest as you're going to go at the end of the straightaway. And typically you go through a transitional point on track where you go from a flat surface to A bank surface, but you got to get there and, and you got to start your turn, you know, somewhere and all that. So, you know, you trying to push the limits of the tires, whether you know, your right front tire, the right rear tire, you know, whatever limitation you're trying to push up to the edge of is going to be exposed the most in that spot just because of the lack of banking and the speed you're carrying at that point.

[Dr. Randall]

Gotcha.

[Naturopathic Doctor Dennis Black]

Discover the life changing benefits of meow greens for your cat. Ever see your cat slowing down or having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add meow greens to your cat's food for 90 days and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings. I'm naturopathic doctor Dennis Black, inventor of meow greens, and I invite you to take the Meow Greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your cat will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, they're going to have better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch a free Jumpstart trial bag for your cat today. Go to trymealgreens.com use promo code try meow. That's try meow. You just cover the shipping. You don't have to change your cat's food to improve your cat's health. Just add a picture packet of meow greens.

[Corinne]

Do you think that relates to hunting as far as, like being comfortable in the uncomfortable. As far as when you're out, way out in the back country, are you comfortable in that environment or is it trying to adjust to.

[Steve Rinella]

No, that's, I think that's, in some situations that's huge. But there's also, it takes a ton of forms because if you talk to guys that, I mean, this isn't me, but you talk to guys that are really into bow hunting, whitetails, and they'll go in November and they'll sit strapped to a tree from the time it gets, well, 30, 40 minutes before it gets light out to the time it gets dark, right? It's maddening. It's maddening. It's not like uncomfortable like you imagine. Like climbing up a never ending hill is uncomfortable, but it's like not. You have to be extremely dedicated to do that. Yeah, it's a, there's a mental game. Right. It's just like you're just stuck.

[Jordan]

What if you're like taking a piss?

[Steve Rinella]

Taking a piss is hard. It's hard to eat and like it's, it's not hard. Like yeah, it's not like you're doing a bunch of bench presses, but it's hard. Like it's just mentally there's, there's so many things like that where guys get into something and it just, or another one be people that are really like disciplined about duck hunting, you know. And it sounds crazy, but it's like you're up at three in the morning and you're up at three in the morning. You're up at three in the morning dot you're up at three in the Morning. Like anyone with any obsession pushes it to where it gets, where it pushes it to where it's kind of like lunacy and, and just like they push it to where it becomes just uncomfortable, you know. And then there's all the other stuff, like cold and all that. But yeah, people do things. We do this, we do this moose hunt which is almost like, like mentally, physically you're not doing anything. But to sit in the same spot for 10 days, that'd be tough.

[Jordan]

That's hope, very tough.

[Dr. Randall]

And see, see pretty much nothing.

[Steve Rinella]

Some days you see at like you sit there, you go down, it's a 12 hour, 13 hour sit. And some days in 12, 13 hours you don't see any four legged animals. And you, you every 20, 30 minutes you call, make a moose noise and you're like yeah man, on day nine, day ten, maybe one's gonna come out of that, one's gonna come out of the woods. So be like, is it really that hard to sit? Yeah, dude, it is.

[Jordan]

Like along the same lines like if you're tracking down a bear. Like and I guess is there any point, and maybe this is where you were going with it, but like whether it be concern of coming up on another animal or if you're trying to intercept a path that an animal is going on, you know, like a calmness or a sense of, I don't know, like any discomfort in doing that that would be important of trying to mentally stay locked in through or I think.

[Steve Rinella]

That the guys that are really good. Well there's one thing that relates more to the, the my initial interpretation of like comfortable being uncomfortable is, is just putting one foot in front of the other. Like we walked a couple miles today, right? Like we'll picture that you walked five times further, six times further. Like there's a point at which like, just one foot in front of the other. There's some things where that becomes very hard, and it really makes it that there's certain kinds of activities or certain kind of hunts that most people. And I mean it. Like. Like most people. The vast majority of people, even the ones that. That, like, the vast majority of people that would want to. Cannot physically do that. Right. Most people, like, if you look at, like. Like going on a mountain goat hunt or going on a doll sheep hunt or whatever, like most people. And most of the people that would want to do that can't do that. It's just physically too demanding. There is a thing with guys that are really good is. Yeah. Just not being excitable. And. And there's like, There's a huge. There's a huge safety element. Like, I can't stand when people. I can't stand being around people that are excitable when something happens. Like, there's water coming into the boat. Right?

[Jordan]

Obviously there's water in the boat.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. It's like, I would prefer it to be, hey, there's water coming into the boat. Like.

[Dr. Randall]

Like, let's figure out how we go.

[Steve Rinella]

You know what I mean? But, like, the flippy Audi, like, I hate when people, like. Like people that are. That's one of the things I tell my kids all the time, is I'm just like, pounding him. Like, just don't. Don't be excitable. Just calm down, slow down, think about it when something happens. Yeah. The other day, I left a hand towel on the burner, and it caught on fire. My daughter, like, freaked out for a second, and I put it out, and then she said I. She was bummed. She's like, I should just put it out. I'm like, yeah, it's cool. I'm glad you recognize that.

[Corinne]

You want to start doing that at home.

[Steve Rinella]

You should just calmly. You should have calmly put it out.

[Jordan]

But she.

[Steve Rinella]

She picked it, recognized it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

And that's not like. That's not specific to. That's not even a specific to, like, hunting, fishing. No, it's specific to. To outdoor. And I'm sure there's other versions, too, like military versions, fire stuff, whatever. But, like, you find it with. I saw my mountaineers earlier, you know, like. Like guys that get into the crazy stuff with mountains, rock climbers, whatever. Like, they get a. They just get very unexcitable and very chill. And I think that if you do a lot of outdoor pursuits where you're in situations like we spend a lot of time in big water and small boats, you know, and it's like, it breeds. It breeds in you like a. Just a. Just being calm. You know, Pilots have like a picture. If you had a panicky pilot, you.

[Dr. Randall]

Know, wouldn't like that.

[Steve Rinella]

No, you listen to those. You listen to those, like the recordings, black box recordings. The guys that are going down, they're not screaming and. Do you know what I mean? A lot of them, to the very end, are calmly talking about the problem.

[Jordan]

Trying to figure it out.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

It's like, that dude's gonna die, and he knows it, but still he's like, we're gonna check this, we're checking that, Shutting down this, trying that, you know, Like, I don't know where you get that from. I think that you. I do know where you get it from. There's probably people that are born with it, and then there's probably. And there's people that develop it and.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, you're teaching your kids that.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, currently. So I. I can't stand hanging out with excitable people.

[Jordan]

That's. Nothing wrong with that in any way.

[Steve Rinella]

Like, I hate it like that kind of like, oh, my God. I'm like, just stop doing it.

[Jordan]

Chill.

[Steve Rinella]

It's a bear, you know, but, hey, there's a bear over. There's a bear coming.

[Jordan]

Perfect.

[Steve Rinella]

We're gonna have to deal with him in a minute.

[Jordan]

What else?

[Steve Rinella]

I heard a rumor these days that these days it's 90% the car.

[Jordan]

Oh, man, not this.

[Steve Rinella]

10% the driver. The driver's an afterthought.

[Jordan]

They're probably right.

[Steve Rinella]

You think about that? Who told me that they're probably right?

[Jordan]

I said it's. It's majority car backing up now. Yeah. Yeah.

[Corinne]

I don't think that's all right. I don't think that's exactly right.

[Dr. Randall]

What's. What's the difference between, like, Chevy, Ford, Toyota. Just the motor.

[Jordan]

Motor.

[Steve Rinella]

And.

[Jordan]

And the bodies are a little different. A little different. Yeah. All very close now. For the simple reason that NASCAR creates the box of which you have to live in. And you, you know, so if there's a certain number of whatever it is that you have to get to, you might add up a little differently to get there, but you kind of end up in the same place.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

So, like, for instance, maybe the best example I can give is, like, some engine, you know, so if it's Chevy versus a Ford, you know, a Chevy in the power curve, they might both make, you know, whatever the number is, 670 horsepower or whatever they have us restricted to now. But they might make a. Their power curve or torque numbers might be different at 7,500 versus 8, 900. So you see what I mean? You kind of end up in the same place, but you might have a little bit of a different makeup to. To get you there.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, I was surprised that when you.

[Dan Flores]

Get in there, it's not like you.

[Steve Rinella]

Have, like, a car.

[Jordan]

No, that is an extreme, very popular misconception.

[Steve Rinella]

And yeah, I picture you got like a car. You got like a mechanic that has a lot of secret tricks that no one else knows.

[Jordan]

Not as much anymore. But no, you don't have one car. You have. I think there's like, seven. I think seven center sections are assigned to a car number a year. And then you can kind of divide those up how you want to and where you want to race them. Depending upon, you know, like, you might have a different. You might have your body configured a little different for a speedway versus where, you know, that would be a place that you would want to just have as much drag off the car as you can get it, just to go as fast in a straight line as possible. Whereas if we go to, say, Kansas this weekend, and we want to have more downforce on our car because we want it to handle better. Well, with downforce comes drag. So you might have that car configured a little differently.

[Steve Rinella]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan]

I got you aero perspective for Kansas versus Daytona. So you have these different car builds that you would take to different racetracks. And generally speaking, we don't take the same car to the track two weeks in a row unless we just really like a car and we ran really good with it. Then they might turn around and go again, but otherwise it's going to get a week off or two weeks off, and they'll go and kind of re. Massage everything and, you know, put it back together.

[Dr. Randall]

Do you run a motor once?

[Jordan]

Three times.

[Dr. Randall]

Three times?

[Steve Rinella]

Yep.

[Dr. Randall]

And then it's done. Or do you rebuild it?

[Jordan]

Or they'll rebuild it. I don't know exactly.

[Steve Rinella]

Three races out of a motor.

[Jordan]

Three races out of a motor. Yeah. Which is more than it's ever been. Hell, used to, they. They would have a Friday practice motor, a qualifying motor, a Saturday practice motor, and a race motor on Sunday, and they rebuild all of them for the next week.

[Dr. Randall]

Jeez, man.

[Steve Rinella]

Are you serious?

[Dr. Randall]

That's crazy.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Now, I don't want to pry.

[Dr. Randall]

But he's going to.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, well, no, no, but it doesn't need to be. It doesn't need to be personal.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Steve Rinella]

Explain the economics of. Explain the Economics of being a driver. Yeah, because it's not like you got to go buy all the cars. That's your team.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

What are the economics of a driver? Just pick some random ass driver. What are his economics?

[Jordan]

I don't know. The best way I can describe it to you is basically all drivers are private contractors to whatever race team they work for. So if I work for, I work for Hendrick Motorsports. So I'm basically a contractor of Hendrick Motorsports. You know, I work for them. Rick is my boss and he pays me.

[Steve Rinella]

But you're a contractor, so you don't get like health insurance and stuff through them.

[Jordan]

No.

[Steve Rinella]

You're a freelance dude.

[Jordan]

Yeah. You're in charge of all that now, your contract, you know, you're not just a freelance dude. You know, I'm very much employed by hms. But you are responsible for. For all the things you're talking about, whether, like health insurance and that sort of thing.

[Steve Rinella]

Is it hard to get insurance?

[Jordan]

Not. Not really, no. I would say there's a market.

[Steve Rinella]

Do you skydive or whatever? It's like, do you like, race?

[Jordan]

Yeah. Well, there are a lot of race car drivers. Right. And you know, around the world in different forms of motorsport. So there are companies out there that kind of specialize in that.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. So you sign a contract and how many years is a normal contract?

[Jordan]

Anywhere from probably 2 to 5.

[Steve Rinella]

Okay. And then there's like some kind of base component or is it all winnings?

[Jordan]

No, they're. They're. Well, it depends. And. And this is where it could be different for whoever. Some guys could have. You could have a base number. Some guys could have. Could be totally percentage based on. On the, you know, how the races go and the purse of, of any given race weekend. Or you could even have a hybrid. You know, you could have a little bit of both. And I don't think anybody's is really one in the same.

[Steve Rinella]

Got it. But then when you win, like your name's attached to it, but the team wins.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Like when they, when they write the big winner's check, they don't write the winner's check to the driver.

[Jordan]

That's correct. Yeah. So the winner's check would go to the team because, you know, they're fielding the car, it's their car and you know, it's their team. Right. So they, the teams get paid, you know, for, for. From the purse, from nascar for whatever the, you know, the purses or the winnings that weekend.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. And will you spend your whole career at one team or not? You. Most guys spend their whole career at one team.

[Jordan]

I would say it's not super common to. To do that. I mean, I've seen a lot of people, you know, jump around over the years, even guys that you wouldn't have expected to jump around and do something different. Me, personally, I would love to spend my career with one team. I've been. Been at it with him for 10 years now. So I hope I don't have to, you know, go anywhere else or do anything else. For sure.

[Steve Rinella]

And then you guys are like, when you retire, you might retire at 40. Definitely by 50. Right.

[Jordan]

I would. I would hope.

[Steve Rinella]

And then you just kick it. You just fish.

[Jordan]

Maybe. Maybe. It depends. It just depends on the guy, right? Like, I don't know that I could. I don't know that I could fish every day. Like, I think I would probably still want something to do, like some sort of challenge or, hey, turkey hunt or that, but you know what I mean?

[Steve Rinella]

No, I do, but I don't. I could so happily, like, I could so happily just screw around all day, every day.

[Jordan]

And maybe if I could pull my.

[Steve Rinella]

Kids out of school, if they didn't have to go to school, I would very, very happily every day just screw around.

[Jordan]

But. How old are you?

[Steve Rinella]

51.

[Jordan]

See, I'm not there yet. I don't know. Yeah, maybe when.

[Steve Rinella]

I hope I could have very happily just screwed around all the time.

[Jordan]

Yeah. And maybe so I. Yeah, to me.

[Steve Rinella]

Man, I picture, like, if I could somehow, if they didn't have, like, laws about kids going to school and that stud has that, I'd have to deal with my wife, too, because she likes them to be in school. But I imagine that you'd, like, your kids wouldn't be in school and you would just hunt and fish.

[Jordan]

I mean, then that could work.

[Steve Rinella]

Well, I mean, you run into financial issues and stuff, you know, I mean.

[Jordan]

As long as you can. As long as you can sponsor it, it could work. Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. Maybe I'm wrong. My wife's not working for a while right now, and she's kind of feeling the itch.

[Jordan]

She wants to work.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. She wonders about it. She worked her whole life. She just only took a little break. She's taking a little break.

[Jordan]

We'll tell her.

[Steve Rinella]

And during her break, she's kind of like, weighing this whole thing out. Like, do you really, like, what do you do? You know?

[Jordan]

So she's getting bored. No, she just is, like, she's considering what. Exactly what you're saying. And.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, is this, you know, do you get Comfortable in this, do you? Then go and do a new thing. She's just trying to figure out what it feels like.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dr. Randall]

You know, if she turkey hunted and fished, it'd be. Probably be different.

[Steve Rinella]

See, that's her problem, dude. Yeah, she like, that's her problem. She likes a lot of stupid stuff. I was like, if you didn't like. I told her if the things you didn't like, the things you like are so stupid. That's why you're having this struggle. If I was in your situation, I'd be brave stuff and I'd be quite happy brave. So anything else you want to ask about, share about?

[Jordan]

I don't think so. Not unless you, I don't know, have anything else you want to cover.

[Steve Rinella]

No. Hanging out with you totally changed my, like my perception of, of watching that activity.

[Jordan]

That's good.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

I mean, I just think about, wow.

[Steve Rinella]

Look at all those people with a death wish.

[Jordan]

Yeah. No, I mean, I think there's a lot that, that is probably misunderstood about, you know, what we do and yeah, just so much about the discipline that is never conveyed and it's really hard to understand. And I totally get that. And because like we were talking earlier, you can't go to the sporting goods store and buy a race car, you know, and that's so. Because of that, it's a hard thing to explain and it kind of is a niche sport, you know, you really have to dive into it and be willing to learn about it, you know, in order to get the full appreciation for it.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. You're not going to stumble into it, right? Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

One last thing. I keep coming around to the, to the, the hazards of it. What percent of, like, roughly what percent of. Of racers have like a career ending injury or that their career ends because of injury or their career ends because of. Of a fatality? Is it significant?

[Jordan]

I mean, obviously, as time has gone on, I would say in all forms of motorsports, the percentage of both of those has decreased quite a lot over the years, but still not impossible for sure. Most recently, Kurt Busch, I would say, was a guy that. Am I thinking right? Yeah, it'd have to be Kurt that had a career ending head injury, you know, that sidelined him for what he thought was going to be a brief period of time and basically never recovered. You know, from a concussion standpoint, he might be okay now, you know, but that had been, you know, I think some years had. Had passed by. So things are a lot safer, you know, today than they were 15 years ago or something. But you Know, certainly that stuff is never out of the question. You know, I think we all kind of understand the risk and kind of what's involved in what we do, and it's never impossible.

[Steve Rinella]

How. How dumb were the questions I asked you compared to when you do post race interviews? Your.

[Jordan]

They weren't dumb. Okay, I didn't think your questions were dumb, but also too, like you're learning about something you don't know anything about. Whereas, like, post race interviews, you're being asked by people who literally watch it every weekend. So.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah, I've watched you do post race interviews and I've watched you just. You kind of keep it. You keep it tight.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I try to. Yeah, I try to. You know, it's. Yeah, it. And also too, so much of it depends on, like, how your day went.

[Dr. Randall]

And they like to ask about conflicts on the track.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's their favorite thing to talk about. You know, it's just conflicts and.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Because that gets in the most views.

[Steve Rinella]

And you just don't take the base.

[Dr. Randall]

They like when you guys get out and fight and they love it.

[Jordan]

Yeah, they love it. But then they want to find you for it, but they're going to advertise, but they love it. Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

You know? Yeah. That's funny because my daughter plays hockey and they don't, you know, they're not allowed to fight yet.

[Jordan]

Yeah. At what age do you.

[Steve Rinella]

I don't know what ages they're supposed to start fighting, but I'll feel in my heart, I'm like, I wish she would hit that kid. You know, it breeds it. You know what I mean?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Because it's boys and girls mixed together. So when a boy roughs her, I'm always thinking in my head, like, I wish she'd clobber that boy.

[Jordan]

Boy. Yeah.

[Dr. Randall]

How often do you run into conflict on the track?

[Jordan]

I mean, it just depends. Like, you might get. You might go a season where you don't have any conflicts, and then you might go a season where you have, you know, two or three or something. Like, when I say two or three, I mean, like, major ones.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You're gonna have minor conflicts on track, you know, throughout a year. Probably a handful, you know, average on. On average, I would say. But it just depends. Like, it can go. It can go either way.

[Dr. Randall]

Gotcha.

[Steve Rinella]

You think you'll come back and fish when it's better fishing?

[Jordan]

I really would like to.

[Steve Rinella]

I sure owe it to you. I feel like you did good.

[Jordan]

I mean, you did the best you could, I thought. I mean, you. You Put me on a fish and I failed. That's on me.

[Steve Rinella]

March, cold can be real good, depending on a handful of things. Late June, July can be real good. August can get a little nasty and hot.

[Dr. Randall]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

The fall, I don't fish. You don't? No, I don't fish. Yeah, I'm gonna get. A sign says I don't fish in the fall.

[Jordan]

It's fair.

[Steve Rinella]

Someone told me about it. They have a rule, no talking about fishing during hunting season. So that's the months you got to come back. Come back in late June.

[Jordan]

Late June's the month.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah. We'll go up and fish the high country.

[Jordan]

I'd love to. I really would.

[Steve Rinella]

You know, I'd love to take you out and. And. And. And for real, you know?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Steve Rinella]

Catching them.

[Jordan]

More catching than fishing is always catching them.

[Steve Rinella]

Now that you're all trained up, I'm ready to go. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming on the show, man.

[Jordan]

And listen, really appreciate everybody for having us, for taking us out today. I know, you know, it was some work involved and all that, so that.

[Steve Rinella]

Was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun.

[Jordan]

Yeah, we. We appreciated it. I had fun. I know we didn't catch anything, but it was still good to get outside and enjoy what you guys have out here. So. Thank you.

[Steve Rinella]

And then people I hang out with are gonna forever, for the rest of their life, be annoyed when I talk about what really goes on with race car drivers. Subject matter expert. It's not like that. It's not like that. Here's what it's like.

[Jordan]

Listen, you can tell them whatever you want. You can make up any story you want and go with it. You have my full permission.

[Steve Rinella]

Listen, I spent a lot of time. I spent a lot of time speaking time with those guys. I'll tell you what they're thinking.

[Jordan]

Perfect.

[Steve Rinella]

Trust me. All right. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

[Jordan]

Thank you.

[Dr. Randall]

Good luck in Kansas.

[Jordan]

Thank you.

[Dan Flores]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Foreign.

[Naturopathic Doctor Dennis Black]

Notice your dog slowing down and having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add rough greens to your dog's food for 90 days, and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings, Naturopathy Dr. Dennis Black, inventor of rough green greens here, and I invite you to give your pup the Ruff Greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your dog will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days. Better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch your dog a free Jumpstart trial bag today. Go to try rough greens.com use promo code Try rough. That's T R Y R U F F. Go to try rough greens.com use promo code Try rough. You just cover the shipping. You don't have to change your dog's food to improve your dog's health. Just add a scoop of rough greens.

[Dan Flores]

Steve rlla here the American west with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time wild animals, native peoples in the west, unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores On Apple, Spotify, iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out and I mean that in a very good way.

[Steve Rinella]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.