Ep. 707: MeatEater Radio Live! Mountain Lions, Hot Gear Tips, and Freaky Sheds

Summary

Podcast Title: The MeatEater Podcast
Episode: Ep. 707: MeatEater Radio Live! Mountain Lions, Hot Gear Tips, and Freaky Sheds
Release Date: May 23, 2025
Host: Giannis Patelis
Guests: Bart George (Wildlife Program Director for the Kalispell Tribe)

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Hunting Stories

The episode kicks off with Giannis Patelis welcoming regular co-hosts Brody Henderson and Corey Calkins to discuss recent hunting adventures and share personal stories.

Turkey Hunting Adventures: Giannis narrates a challenging turkey hunt where unexpected noises, possibly imitating coyote howls, startled them and disrupted their hunt ([07:04]). He recounts an instance where a mysterious noise caused both him and his daughter, Mabel, to become overly cautious, ultimately leading to a missed opportunity to harvest a gobbler.

• Giannis Patelis [08:31]: "She looks at me, I'm like, yeah, shoot another one."

Brody Henderson shares his experience of a successful turkey hunt, emphasizing patience and persistence. He describes how his son, Hayden, overcame initial hesitations to confidently take down a gobbler, reinforcing the importance of staying calm and focused during hunts.

Bear Hunting Highlights: Brody details his bear hunting expedition, where he successfully tracked and harvested the largest bear of his career. He highlights the challenges of long-distance tracking and the thrill of closing in on a bear, ultimately describing the experience as both rewarding and rigorous.

• Brody Henderson [26:07]: "That's the biggest bear I've ever harvested."

Family Hunting Dynamics: The conversation shifts to family hunting dynamics, with Giannis discussing his daughter's mixed reactions to processing a turkey. While his eldest son is proficient and eager, his daughter Mabel struggles with the more graphic aspects. This segues into a broader discussion on involving children in hunting and balancing encouragement with sensitivity.

• Giannis Patelis [37:42]: "But what I'm scared of is if I force it too much, then she’s going to be like, screw it. I don't need to kill a turkey."

Gear Talk

Transitioning to gear discussions, the trio delves into equipment essential for modern hunting and camping.

Solar-Powered Coolers: Giannis introduces a high-end, solar-powered cooler by Dometic, detailing its setup involving a solar panel and battery system. He praises its efficiency in maintaining cold temperatures without the mess of ice, though he questions its cost-effectiveness.

• Giannis Patelis [66:13]: "It's pretty sweet. It just takes out that element of dealing with the ice, wondering if your stuff's getting too warm."

Image Stabilizing Binoculars: Phil showcases the Sig Sauer Zulu 6 binoculars, highlighting their image stabilization feature which allows for steady viewing without the need for a tripod. He appreciates their compact size, making them ideal for younger hunters who may struggle with traditional binoculars.

• Phil [71:19]: "You have to wear a helmet in the backyard. Guaranteed you're going to need some band-aids."

Portable Air Inflators: Brody Henderson discusses the Zeus Air, a portable air inflator capable of handling everything from bike tires to truck tires. He emphasizes its multifunctionality, including jump-starting capabilities and USB charging, deeming it a vital addition to any hunter's toolkit.

• Brody Henderson [73:11]: "It's pretty amazing how much power is packed into this little kit right here."

Show and Tell

In this segment, hosts share personal items related to their hunting experiences.

Giannis's Buck Axe Mount: Giannis presents his axe-mounted buck antlers from a standout kill, describing the antlers' quality and the pride he takes in processing and displaying his trophy.

• Giannis Patelis [74:54]: "This is from a buck that I killed with the Element Boys in February of '24."

Phil's Moose Skull: Phil shares his first beetled moose skull, explaining the benefits of professional processing over DIY methods. He highlights the impressive size and intricate details of the antlers, expressing both admiration and a touch of humor regarding their display.

• Phil [81:16]: "This is my first and only bull moose, Alaska Yukon moose, brought in for a couple reasons..."

Interview with Bart George: Mountain Lion Research

Bart George, the Wildlife Program Director for the Kalispell Tribe, joins the show to discuss his recent research on mountain lions, focusing on flight initiation distance (FID) and hazing techniques to promote safe coexistence between humans and cougars.

Study Overview: Bart explains the impetus behind the study, driven by an increase in human-cougar depredations. Collaborating with a tech specialist, they developed a "sleep mode" collars integrated with Garmin technology to monitor cougar responses to human presence.

• Bart George [44:02]: "We started hazing the cat. We didn't really know what that looked like yet."

Methodology: The study involved collaring 50 cougars, with complete data on 41. They used human voice stimuli (specifically, MeatEater podcast audio) played at 80 decibels to test how cougars react over multiple encounters. The objective was to increase FID, making cougars more wary of approaching humans.

• Bart George [54:21]: "They learned to avoid us. It really indicated that the pursuit with the dogs can alter their response to this sort of benign stimulus."

Findings: Results showed a significant increase in FID from an average of 75 meters to 128 meters after repeated interactions. Conversely, control groups exposed to the same stimuli without hazing exhibited a decrease in FID, highlighting the effectiveness of consistent hazing.

• Bart George [55:50]: "The flight initiation distance increased from 75 to 128 meters by the fourth interaction."

Implications: Bart emphasizes that the research provides wildlife managers with a non-lethal tool to foster safer human-cougar interactions, potentially reducing the need for lethal control measures.

• Bart George [59:36]: "It's another tool for managers to consider when you have a landscape with lots of people and lots of cougars."

Listener Feedback and Contests

The hosts engage with their audience by introducing a "Hot Tip Showdown" contest, encouraging listeners to submit short videos sharing their best hunting, fishing, or camping tips. Three finalists will receive copies of the newly released paperback "Catch Crayfish Count Stars," and the winner will be awarded a special MeatEater knife.

• Giannis Patelis [80:38]: "Send your videos to [e-mail] and we'll vote on them next week."

Policy Discussions

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts touch upon recent legislative developments affecting public land management.

Public Land Sell-Off Withdrawn: Giannis and Phil discuss the withdrawal of a controversial public land sell-off from a major bill, thanks in part to intervention by Senator Ryan Zinke and other Western congressmen. However, they caution that other protections, such as those for the Boundary Waters and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, remain threatened.

• Phil [93:58]: "There’s a couple of things that remained in that bill which aren't cool, which is Boundary Waters... protections in ANWR are being lifted."

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a banter-heavy segment where the hosts reflect on their lengthy discussion and tease future content, including potential new show formats and upcoming hunting adventures.

• Giannis Patelis [100:08]: "If you like hunting stories, make sure to write in and say. And put, you know, attention. Spencer. We love hunting stories."

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Notable Quotes:

1. Giannis Patelis [07:15]: "That’s the way it is. Would I still do I love calling them in."
2. Brody Henderson [26:07]: "That's the biggest bear I've ever harvested."
3. Bart George [54:21]: "They learned to avoid us. It really indicated that the pursuit with the dogs can alter their response to this sort of benign stimulus."
4. Phil [93:58]: "There’s a couple of things that remained in that bill which aren't cool, which is Boundary Waters... protections in ANWR are being lifted."

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Conclusion

Episode 707 of The MeatEater Podcast offers a rich tapestry of hunting narratives, practical gear discussions, and insightful wildlife research. From personal tales of triumph and tribulation on the hunt to innovative conservation strategies, the hosts and guest Bart George provide listeners with both entertainment and valuable knowledge. The interactive segments and policy debates further engage the audience, making it a comprehensive episode for outdoor enthusiasts and hunters alike.

Transcript

[Phil]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Corey]

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[Steve Rinella]

Steve Rinella here the American west with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time wild animals, native peoples in the west, unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.

[Giannis Patelis]

Smell us now, lady. Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia.

[Brody Henderson]

Meat Eater Podcast.

[Giannis Patelis]

Welcome to Meat Eater radio live. It's 11:00am Mountain Time. That's 1:00pm for our friends in Kalamazoo, Michigan on Thursday, May 22nd, exactly one week before my 47th birthday. Yeah, I'm fresh out of a yoga studio. But right now we're live from Meat Eater World headquarters in Bozeman. I'm your host Giannis Patelis and today I'M joined by Brody Henderson and Corey Calkins. On today's show, we're going to chat mountain lions with my friend Bart George. We're trying a new segment called Gear Talk where we talk about equipment we love. We'll pause for listener feedback so get those questions coming. In the chat, we each brought in a special item that we'll share in show and tell. We might have a conversation with fishing guy Josh Miller and his lucky fishing charm and turkey co Captain Ryder, which I don't know if I pronounced that right. It's got kind of a funny spelling. We'll discuss haircuts as well, but first we're going to tell hunting stories. Corey, Brody. Great to see you fellas. Corey, do you smell that up dog?

[Brody Henderson]

You know, we had about a dozen hot dogs in here last week. Is that the up dog you're referring to?

[Giannis Patelis]

What's up dog? Is the answer to my question.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, what's up dog?

[Giannis Patelis]

Thank you.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Okay.

[Brody Henderson]

Not much.

[Giannis Patelis]

Okay. For those of you listening in at home, these boys thought that joke would really land with you guys. So I hope you're all giggling.

[Phil]

That wasn't my joke. That was Corey's joke.

[Brody Henderson]

Cory and Phil, hey, this is your script. Just remember that.

[Giannis Patelis]

I'm owning it. I'm going to own. Does smell. I'm not smelling it. But you guys are saying you smell hot dogs because a week ago, Randall was in here pounding hot dogs. Did anybody else have any?

[Randall Williams]

I had one.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, Phil had one. I think Lake and Tony Peterson had one. It was dog week, so we celebrated. Four legged dogs and the food variety hot dogs.

[Phil]

The wiener dog.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, I'm kind of sorry I missed out on that.

[Brody Henderson]

You should have been here. Yeah, we had some steamed buns and some hot mustard.

[Giannis Patelis]

Super tasty hot mustard as in spicy or warmed up?

[Brody Henderson]

Well, it was warmed up when you put it on the hot dog.

[Phil]

I like sweet hot mustard like the spicy brown.

[Giannis Patelis]

We recently at turkey camp had Olympia provisions frankfurter. Those jokers. I'm not kidding you. I didn't measure them, but they're over a foot long. It says right on the package more meat than your bun can handle. Wow.

[Phil]

So did you double bun them?

[Giannis Patelis]

No, I cut them in half and. And went. Went two. Two franks and in one bunny.

[Phil]

Cook them on sticks or on a stove.

[Giannis Patelis]

Stovetop. Yep, yep. Just made it quick and easy and got everybody fed. But yeah, extremely tasty frankfurter. They also make this sausage become fond of. It's a. I don't know, pretty plain Jane pork sausage. But it's stuff. It's got some chunks of Swiss cheese in it and then smoked just a little bit.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yum. Delicious.

[Phil]

So kind of like Olympia provision, Like a Cheddar Brat?

[Giannis Patelis]

Or like a Cheddar Brat, but upscale. Upscale high end. Yeah. No, no high temp cheese in there.

[Phil]

Right?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Where. Where can you find these?

[Giannis Patelis]

It's legit. I believe you can get them. I know for sure because the owner was telling me that he recently got into Whole Foods, which he was very happy about. But I. I think you can get them all over the place. But yeah. Olympia Provisions. Check it out.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. It's Memorial weekend. Go get your hot dogs.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, yeah. There you go. You want to try something different than just the old Oscar Meyer hunt stories? Who wants to go first?

[Phil]

Well, you're. You're up first, it looks like. Oh, well, unless you want to be like the big finale, I'm happy.

[Giannis Patelis]

Listen, I got a. I got a couple dandies. I'm going to start with this one. Have you guys ever heard Stephen Rinella blow on a crow call?

[Phil]

Yeah, but he's not. I know where you're going with this. I don't think he's trying to sound like a crow. He's just trying to make a bunch of, like, irritating noise.

[Giannis Patelis]

You're 100% right. I know this as well. I've always been, like, right next to him, right when he blows his loud one. And then he goes. I know it doesn't sound like a crow call, but it gets results, you know?

[Phil]

Right.

[Giannis Patelis]

And I'm like, okay, cool. Yeah, that works. Okay. This is what happened this weekend, though. Mabel and I, my youngest, are out. Get on a bird in the roost aren't quite in the right spot. Have a hen fly down just out of range. But then she goes over a little rise. Gobbler follows her. So we end up sort of paralleling them along. He's gobbling decent. We're like, peeking over these little hills. I can see. And they're in this giant meadow. So we're kind of pinned. And I'm telling Mabel, listen, we're just going to be patient. And when they make a mistake by going into a little draw or around a corner, we're going to make a move. And Mabel don't care if we call the bird in or if she bushwhacks it right. She just wants a dead gobbler. So we're sitting there being patient, just kind of watching them feed through this meadow. And all of a sudden I hear, whee. Whee, whee. And I look at Mabel and I go, what the hell was that? You know, she's like, I don't know. And a couple minutes go by and it didn't just, it just didn't register with me at first. And a couple minutes go by and we, we go, oh, that's someone like replicating Steven Rinellis or Steve spoke in your call. I doubt it. I think he was in Alaska. But I'm like, it was very startling to me. Well, sure enough, we're like watching these turkeys. All of a sudden those turkeys are like, yeah, doing this.

[Phil]

How close was it? Like, did it sound like that guy was on top of you?

[Giannis Patelis]

No, because we eventually saw him. Okay, so basically there was a big giant meadow that kind of led up to this hill on top of the hill.

[Phil]

But he was after the same birds.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, I don't know if he was, cuz he was shot calling. Right. So I don't know if he knew. He probably heard those birds from a distance and they had come in and was trying to, you know, relocate them. Again, I don't know for sure if these turkeys saw the guy because not long after we saw the turkey spook, I see the guy like hot footing it across the ridge trying to catch him, which is crazy. You ain't going to catch a turkey after you spook him, you know. But I'd always agreed with Steve, like, oh, you're probably right. You're just making a loud noise. You get a shot gobble. Great. These turkeys might have had an adverse reaction to that sound.

[Phil]

Sure.

[Giannis Patelis]

Because they definitely, when they heard that we were looking right at them, their heads popped up and they were like, what's up? You know, and they, they sort of started looking and then again, I don't know at what point they saw the dude or if they saw the dude. But it didn't last much longer. And Mabel had her first experience of what it's like hunting public land when it doesn't go right.

[Phil]

It's kind of, it'd be interesting to know if that noise is what spooked him. I, I was in Pennsylvania a couple years ago, turkey hunting. And we were hunting kind of a small couple hundred acres. And there are some other dudes hunting the next property over. And we first thing in the morning, like we happen to be right on the, the edge of that, you know, like the property line. And I was cutting loose with a coyote call and this other turkey hunter like pops up next to us. He's like, we don't use Those to shot like he was pissed that I was using a coyote howler, which I've always had like excellent results with. Like before fly down. He's like, that just scares the turkeys. Like, I don't know. It's worked pretty good for me in the past, but maybe a noise could, you know, an adverse noise could do it. I don't know.

[Brody Henderson]

I was hoping you were going to say after you heard that noise that you looked over and saw a blue jay or something actually making the noise.

[Giannis Patelis]

I wish. Yeah, no, it was. It was startling and it was definitely out of place. It just took me a second to register exactly what the hell it was.

[Brody Henderson]

Well, did you guys get any birds? Then after that mishap, Mabel did not.

[Giannis Patelis]

We ended. We moved spots and did a. Did a. Not a big. Not a power loop, but we did another loop. And I'm proud of her because the couple days before we did do a power loop and 11 year old, I think she stuck with me for like seven miles of pound in the ground and making lots of crow calls and loud yelps with no zero responses. We had some crappy weather. Some wind makes it tough. You know, anytime sun's out, guns out. With turkeys, you know, when the sun's out, they're playing ball and it's nice they're playing ball. When it ain't sure you can still kill them, but it's just. It's not as. As much fun. It's not as easy for sure. So we ended up killing. I don't know. We killed Ina killed the tom at a different location on the way out there Thursday morning. And I doubled up on Jake's. My wife doubled up on Jake. She and I were together. She shot one. The rest of them were standing around and she looks at me, I'm like, yeah, shoot another one.

[Phil]

Oh yeah. When a. When a gang of them comes in and you're holding two tags.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, it. You know, a couple guys on Instagram, you know, had to say something about. Because I was like, well, toms are hard to find. So I was happy that we. When we shot these Jakes and they're like, well, yeah, no wonder there's Times are hard to find when you're pounding the Jakes and there certainly there is some truth to that. But also hunting public land, it's like. And all the other things that love to eat turkeys, right? It's hard to say that if us killing two Jakes would have equaled more Jakes next year or if it's going to be this. Or sorry more times next year or if it's going to be the same amount, certainly there would have been two more that maybe would have made it. But we all know that, you know, what are the chances that turkey makes it from egg to 2 year old gobbler? It's like 1 in 50 or something crazy like that.

[Phil]

And like I get it, like the not killing Jake things like maybe back east where there's just a lot more hunters and a lot more hunting pressure and some of those turkey populations are.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Phil]

On their way down. But it's just a different situation out here.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Brett Reeves tell you it's sacrilege. You know, do it down there. They just will not shoot Jake's. Unless you're a kid or it's your first time hunter hunt. And the way I'm looking at it, I'm like, man, that's turkey schnitzel walking around on.

[Phil]

And it's still like you're taking. Whether it's a gobbler or a Jake, you're taking a turkey out of the population.

[Brody Henderson]

Right. You know, I mean, well, you can shoot hens in the fall, obviously after breeding season. Yeah, well in Montana. Yeah. Referring to. So.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yep. Yeah, everything was bushwhacked. Didn't call in nothing in Montana.

[Phil]

Listen, this is. I've been wanting to have this conversation about bushwacking for a while.

[Giannis Patelis]

Like what's happening?

[Randall Williams]

I wish I had a drop for this.

[Phil]

Oh, no. It's like there are, there's a certain contingent of turkey hunters that really look down their nose at bushwhacking. Like the purity of calling them in. And I get it. But if you've ever tried to like stock a turkey, you might like. If you haven't tried it and then you go try it, you might have a different opinion about it because they're not easy to stock.

[Giannis Patelis]

I guarantee you that half the people that look down on it is because they, they haven't tried it or they, or they have a little bit and they can't do it right. Because it's too hard to do.

[Phil]

Like it's way harder than stock and a spot and stock rifle hunt for mule deer, elk or whatever.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, man, try stalking an eagle in the tree. They got the same eyesight.

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

I always say, man, a turkey doesn't have to 100 yards, 200 yards, doesn't have to look over and go, oh, I just saw Corey Culkin skyline himself. He just sees like Corey Culkin's hat brim yeah, yeah. Move 90 degrees and he goes. I don't know what that was exactly, but I'm gonna just go the other direction just to be sure. Because ever since I was born, ever since I came out of my mom's cloaca, something's been trying to eat me. Yeah, listen, it's just the way it is. Would I still do I love calling them in. Yes. Which is why I'm going to tell you this story. Because in Colorado, a bushwhacked one too. Couldn't call one in there. They were super hand up. But I get, I get to Wisconsin, I got one day to hunt. Well, I had two. But I knew the second day was just going to pour rain all day. So it wasn't going to be a good day at turkey hunting. So I have kind of chase a couple off the roofs, but they get onto the neighbors and I can't call them back in. And long story short, I crisscrossed 400 acres for like four hours, maybe longer. Yeah, because I probably started at five. Now it's noon. I'm heading back to camp, kind of worn out. Coming down one last ridge, still calling. And I get an answer like, sweet. Do a little loop. I kind of know where they're at. I'm set up on this, I set up on this little bench and I got the roll of the bench. Definitely not 15 yards away, maybe closer to 10. It's not far. I tried to get, I tried to back off the edge a little bit so, so I could have a little more room to work, but everything behind me was kind of. There was no shade and right where I was there was a pine tree and it was shaded and I was like, man, it'd be better to hide in the shade. So I sit down, I don't even call. I just do a couple scratches in the leaves and there's two birds like right, gobble on top of each other. Got my gun up, I'm ready and I can hear them walking. That's one of the beautiful things about hunting them in the eastern deciduous forest, man, is when they're on those dry, crunchy oak leaves, you can just hear them coming. I can taste the schnitzel at this point, you know. Well, the first one pops up, blue and white head, his head pops up, looks for a half a second full strut, you know, I'm like, oh, sweet. And I don't shoot. I hesitate for whatever reason because I was just enjoying the show, I guess. Well, where he popped up, just his right. My looker's left, there's like a double trunked oak, and he, like, immediately is behind it.

[Phil]

And which normally is a good thing because you can like, totally get into position. Right?

[Giannis Patelis]

Right. But there's two birds. So I'm thinking, well, no big deal. I'm just gonna track through that tree. When he pops out the other side, I'm gonna. I'm gonna roll him.

[Phil]

You know, he's close. How close?

[Giannis Patelis]

Like, like I said, less than 15.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, I get like halfway through this double trunk tree, and I look out of the corner of my eye and the second gobbler's head pops up. Well, this dude is not white and blue. It's full red. And when I see him, I'm thinking, okay, I should probably need to swing back and shoot him. Well, as I'm just thinking that that bird putts one time and is in it on his wings. And the other bird is on his wings. I never even seen the first one again. And both of them pitch off into the woods, never to be touched by Yannis. Tss. Wow. Moral of the story is, like, take your first opportunity. I wasn't in, like, full kill mode.

[Phil]

Right.

[Giannis Patelis]

Even though I had just been pounding it for seven, eight hours. And here's my opportunity. I could have rolled him and I just hesitated and there you go. It was bad. Like, my stomach. I haven't had like a stomach in the, in the bottom of my. What's this? What's. What am I trying to say? Like the. You know when you get that pit feeling in your. In your stomach?

[Brody Henderson]

Say, my stomach falls out of itself.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, something like that. Like, I haven't had that, that bad for a while. Like, I was close to camp, five minute walk, and I almost didn't want to go back to tell the story because it was hurting me so bad.

[Phil]

Yeah, some of them just muffed it. It's good to have those hunts now and then. That really hurt.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yes, it's good to be humbled. That's why I love the wild turkey, because that joker humbles me. And. Yeah, so that's about all of my turkey hunting stories.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

A little.

[Phil]

A little while back, I was out with my older son and sprung him out of school after he had a good baseball game the night before.

[Randall Williams]

And.

[Phil]

We, we got into the spot, slept, slept in the truck, got up, hiked into our spot, hit the coyote howler a few times. Didn't hear anything. Hit it again. Didn't hear anything. Hit it again, like real aggressively, and wham. Three gobbles. So I'M like, okay, I kind of know where they're at. But we.

[Giannis Patelis]

We.

[Phil]

We're just, like, a little too late with the light. And so, like, I didn't want to push it and get in there tight and have Marty on the ground and see us. So we set up. It was probably. I don't know, it was more than 200 yards away, right. But I just didn't want to move. I was like, we're just going to be patient and they'll come, like. And we. I called, and they'd answer. I called. They weren't getting any closer. We ended up sitting in that spot for an hour. And it was cold. Like, like cold enough that I was getting ready to be like, screw it. We're going to walk just to warm up and get closer. And we hear, like, it obviously in range, but same thing over a little lip. This hen just starts making a racket. Like, yelping and cutting and yelping and cutting to the point where I was looking for you, to the point where I was like, hayden, I think there's a dude down there. Because it was just. It sounded almost unnatural. It was so, like, aggressive and loud. You know what I mean? I was like, I think there's a guy in here with us. And I was like, my heart was just, like, broken at that point. But then I see Hayden, like, shift his gun this way, and I see that hen's head pop up. I was like, don't shoot. That's a hen. She ends up coming into. I don't carry decoys a lot, but I had them that time. And we had a quarter strut Jake, and then a hen on the ground. She came up to those decoys puffed up like a gobbler, strutting, making all kinds of noise, like, not paying any attention to the Jake decoy. Just walk in circles around that hen, very irritated, and then kind of like gave up on it and wandered off. Then we see a lone gobbler out at, like, 80, 90 yards. And he takes a long time coming in. He gets to, like, oh, 3,000, 540. And I. And I tell Hayden to cut loose on him. Immediately after he shoots, we hear three gobbles also in range, like, right from where that hen came from. I'm like, can you see him? Can you see him? Can you see him? And finally he's like, I see him. And they get in the decoys and do the little dance around the decoys, and wham. We get a couple of those.

[Giannis Patelis]

Nice. You got three gobblers in one morning.

[Phil]

Well, one gobbler.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh. And two Js.

[Phil]

Yeah. So that was exciting because he's never had that kind of show before and it, like, reinforced to me and definitely him, like, if you sit tight, like, good things will happen.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, yeah. So I'm guilty of walking too much when it's turkey season for sure.

[Phil]

Yeah. Last weekend of the season, this weekend here in Montana. So I'm going to take my younger kid, we're going camping, and we're going to camp in a spot where we might have a shot at a. At a turkey.

[Brody Henderson]

Nice.

[Giannis Patelis]

Good. So. So he hasn't been out at all.

[Phil]

Just timing, man. Sports and whatnot.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, man, those sports.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. Priorities.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Corey]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back. Whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through, it's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P, a CE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Steve Rinella]

Steve Rinella here. The American west with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time wild animals, native peoples in the West's unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west. And he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history. And I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores On Apple, Spotify, iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.

[Brody Henderson]

I was in town and country the other day and I was coming around the poultry aisle and saw a turkey and I went and crept in real slow and then I went up and smacked him. He was frozen. So that was my turkey hunt and I did this year.

[Randall Williams]

Congrats.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, I didn't buy him, but I could have, could have, could have tagged that one.

[Giannis Patelis]

Could tag that one.

[Brody Henderson]

But I've been bear hunting.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yep. You've been bear hunting.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

How many days did you put in bear hunting?

[Brody Henderson]

Man, it was pretty quick this year. Only three. Typically I hunt, I don't know, 10 to 14 days. It's easy these long days to just get in a couple hours after work. And I call that a day because it ends up being an eight hour adventure.

[Phil]

Yep.

[Brody Henderson]

Uh, but I went the last week of April, spotted a bunch of bears, ended up going back to the same spot the first weekend in May and stayed overnight. Spotted a bear in the evening and then in the morning was hyper focused on the drainage that I saw him in and found him again about 2 miles away. Close the distance to 2 miles from.

[Giannis Patelis]

Where you first spotted him or 2 miles from where you were at?

[Brody Henderson]

About 2 miles from where I first spotted him. Sorry. Like glassed him up two miles away, what I'm trying to say. And then probably an hour and a half later, I was within 90 yards of him and I shot him on the run, running away. Biggest bear I've ever harvested.

[Phil]

You spooked him.

[Brody Henderson]

I did.

[Giannis Patelis]

Like he winded me.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. I was trying to play the wind as the thermals were switching around. They move so much all the time. But in the spring, the bruins especially are just cruising Roman, looking for that fresh patch of grass or new flowers or something. Dead.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

And I watched this guy cruise probably a solid half a mile and he luckily stopped in the drainage that I last watched him go into.

[Phil]

But you couldn't see him until you were on top of, right?

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. He went into this thick, not super thick, but thick enough to where I couldn't see him until I was on him and got up into this, into the drainage that he was in and figured he had left because I didn't see him. I was about to set up in predator call and I heard a stick pop right below me and then just saw a flash of Black, probably. That was probably 40 yards away. And then he would. I could tell he was running away, and there was this little gap between some. A tree and a cliff. And I shot him right through that little gap. Probably about 90 yards. Could have been.

[Giannis Patelis]

Was he full on hauling ass or.

[Brody Henderson]

As fast as he could go? He's a. He had a big butt on him, so he couldn't go very fast.

[Giannis Patelis]

I mean, embarrass that. You know, they do 30, 40 miles an hour.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. This guy, like, I could tell by the way he was running, was huge. And I knew he was big when I saw him from miles away. Like, I wanted to kill him. I could tell it was a boar from that far away. And I saw him the night before. And did you have to lead him? No, it was so close that I just put it right behind the shoulder and that's where it went.

[Phil]

Did you bring in a picture of him?

[Brody Henderson]

No, I didn't. Got it up on my Instagram.

[Giannis Patelis]

I saw the Seaman Culkins see, man, Calkins.

[Phil]

Great big noggin on him.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. Well, congrats.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, that looked like a. It looked like a dandy.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. I'm tickled. His skull. I mean, it hasn't had time to, you know, do the. The green scored the skull at 20 inches, so.

[Phil]

Which is B and C minimum.

[Brody Henderson]

So it might shrink under that again. We'll see. But yeah. Got the hide in the freezer. Fat in chunks, ready to render. Meats in the freezer. Feeling good.

[Phil]

Nice.

[Giannis Patelis]

What are you gonna do with the hide?

[Brody Henderson]

I'd like to get a rug made, but we'll see. Gonna have to save up a couple of paychecks for that one, dude. It's not cheap.

[Giannis Patelis]

I know. Yeah. I don't want to say I'm going on a guaranteed hunt, but the outfitter that I'm going with next week in Manitoba, he's texting me, I think, two days in a row. And one day he's like, we killed four last night. And the next day he's like, we killed five last night. I'm like, oh, I'm. Is that like, you forgot about one and that was from two nights ago, or. You guys killed nine bears in two days. He's like, oh, yeah, we got nine in two days. And he just, like, lists all of the numbers baited, you know, in Manitoba, sounds like there's a lot of bears there. So not guaranteed, but high probability. And, yeah, I'm not looking forward to the. The rug bill.

[Phil]

Yeah, it's a big one. I've Got.

[Giannis Patelis]

I think I'm just gonna tan it and just hang it.

[Brody Henderson]

It depends on how big I was.

[Phil]

Talking to Corey about this, man. Like that's what I did with my first bear, which was a giant. And for two years I just looked at that tan thing hanging there just like wishing I had gotten a rug made and then I had a rug made out of it.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, if they have a big old noggin. I mean, I feel like it's worth foaming that out just so you can relive that.

[Giannis Patelis]

Did it cost you any less or more when you got the tax?

[Phil]

It'll cost you a few hundred less if you get it tan first. Because otherwise they got to send it off to get tanned before they make the rug.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, because I don't. I want it to sit right on the floor in front of my wood.

[Phil]

Right.

[Giannis Patelis]

Wood burning stove. And I don't really have that set up yet for it. So I don't. I don't need the rug right now.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, well, we'll see what kind of bear you get. See how big his head is first. That's exciting though.

[Phil]

That's next some newspaper up in that head after you get it.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, yeah. There you go.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right. Do we need to move on, Phil.

[Randall Williams]

I think it's time.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right, well, those were good hunting stories, fellas. Thank you. All right, next. Oh, catch crayfish. Counting the Stars is now available in paperback right here.

[Phil]

Here it is.

[Giannis Patelis]

Why does it take. Take them like a two years to decide to put something out in paperback?

[Phil]

So the time varies, but it's the decision that the publisher makes based on, you know, when they think the timing is right for a paperback.

[Giannis Patelis]

But they obviously it's based on. Probably on sales of the.

[Phil]

Sure.

[Giannis Patelis]

Hardcover too, right?

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

So it's done well enough. It's been enough to release it in paperback.

[Phil]

Yeah, definitely. So it's out now. Lots of cool activities in there for. For your kids, Outdoor activities. Corey, what's your. What's your favorite one in there?

[Brody Henderson]

Man, there's a lot of good stuff in here.

[Giannis Patelis]

But how many of you actually done with your kid?

[Brody Henderson]

Man, with Marshall, to be honest, I haven't looked through the whole book. This is one of those where you could just like flip to a page.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

And then, you know, like find the. The most recent chapter that they're talking about and just go from there. Like a couple winters ago we flipped to the make your own aquarium and we did that. Caught a little really perch from a local pond and maybe threw them in there, find an antler. That's pretty fun to do this time of year, but I flipped to go rock hounding and we're going to go look for some quartz and agates this weekend.

[Phil]

Oh, nice.

[Brody Henderson]

It kind of just spun off. Cool reading this book. Great ideas in there.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. And that's easy to do right there. Go for a walk and pick some rocks.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, easy peasy.

[Giannis Patelis]

You'll go for just those two rocks, but your kid will come back with a box of rocks.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Of it could just be gravel. Yeah.

[Phil]

I've had to rewild some rocks recently.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, I do it all the time.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Because my wife's. My wife is bad about it. The kids are kind of like, eh. But my wife like, will not let a piece of petrified wood stay on the banks of the Yellowstone River. It's coming home for sure.

[Phil]

Yeah. Giannis, what's your. What's your favorite one?

[Giannis Patelis]

I have. I'll be honest, I haven't done many, but I did do one before the book was out and then wrote the. The little how to. To do it, which was to build a PVC bow, which is an idea I think I got from Jimmy Miller. But yeah, man, it's super easy. And you still need to make some arrow. Do we. Is there how to make some arrows along with the bow?

[Phil]

No, we didn't go that far.

[Giannis Patelis]

Just the bow.

[Phil]

That's. That's getting serious.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. So you. You got to have. But we. I just used old hunting arrows of mine. But you just take a chunk of PVC and some string and cut some notches in the PVC and use some tape for a. A little handle and a. And a arrow rest and you got yourself a bow that my kids, they ran around in Princess Out.

[Phil]

I remember when they were little, running around. Yeah. Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Just flinging those arrows all around.

[Phil]

See an arrow?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. You gotta. Gotta wear a helmet in the backyard. Brody, what about. What's. What's your.

[Phil]

There's a couple in there that I'm partial to. The. The track and animal and the reed animal sign one. I think that teaches kids a lot.

[Giannis Patelis]

Hmm.

[Phil]

Like looking at poop, looking at whatever hair, feathers, whatever they can find. You know, maybe it's a snake skin on the ground. Like, I just think kids are like naturally. Like the biophilia thing is like just built into them. So like those are a couple of activities that play into that that I like a lot.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

And.

[Phil]

And it's going to teach them to be a better hunter, you know.

[Randall Williams]

But.

[Phil]

There'S I don't know, 75 more activities in there. Like, everything from gardening to fishing to, like, history. There's all kinds.

[Giannis Patelis]

All the kids that I know that have that book. Love it. Yep. Yep. Absolutely love it.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. Such a great one to just throw in the camper in the back of the truck. If you're even just going to a local park. There's so many activities in there.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

You wouldn't just think about.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yep. All right. This kind of ties it together with activities for kids, getting kids into hunting, and also Mabel's turkey, because she didn't get a turkey when we were out on our big trip. But she did kill a Yanni's ranch bird the other night. Who. That's been causing some strife. And actually Jennifer's not home, my wife. But when we told her, she's like, I told you guys not to kill that bird. And we're like, did you? We thought you just said, like, you didn't want us to kill that bird. You didn't say, you can't kill that bird. We tried to kill him two other days. One time in the evening, and he stayed over the roll and then he just kept gobbling. And finally I'm like, did he roost? And I went and peeked over to the hill and sure enough, he's in the tree. So the next morning, my oldest and I, we get up at 5am and I got her sitting on the deck, like in the dark, waiting for it to get light. Well, I didn't because I dropped back to call a little bit. So I didn't. But the gobbler was in plain view of aa and so of course, like, it was doomed from the beginning because even a. I don't know, Jennifer's like, you guys are killing a half domesticated bird. I'm like, yeah, kind of like this person not. Doesn't live in suburbia. Like everybody around us lives on 10 to 40 acres or something. There's coyotes around, there's foxes around. Wolves. Sure. You know, these are not quite. I mean, sure. Are there people feeding them? Yes. Well, anyways, the other evening, we could hear him gobbling across the way. I told Mabel, I said, just go out there and every 30 minutes just give a couple strokes on the box call. He'd answer. And then after dinner, Mabel's like, that's probably getting too late. Yeah. I'm like, yes, you're probably too late. But just keep listening, looking. And we're cleaning up and Ina looks out the window. He's right there. You know, I'm like, oh, boy. So anyways, we go out there. It doesn't take much. Make a few calls, Peek around the corner of the garage, kill him. And she's very aware that it's like a different hump than what we were just experiencing in on our turkey camp trip. But it's not what I want to talk about. What I want to talk about is that she's very skittish around gutting and the processing. My oldest one, I'll put her up against anybody in this office. She might not be as fast as you, but if you could give her a whole deer and she could process it at this point, at the age of 13, she's. She's good at it. She enjoys it. Mabel, on the other hand, like, sticking her hands up in that turkey's cavity and pulling those guts out. Fighting it. Fighting it. So my question is, Corey, you haven't gotten there. You're going to have to deal with this at some point. But, like, for kids that like to kill stuff, do you force them. If they're not into dealing with guts and processing, do you force them to do it anyways? Because that's part of the deal.

[Phil]

I mean, I. I can't. It hasn't been a problem with my boys. If anything, they're, like, curious about it. They're, like, interested in it. You know, with fish, they want to see what's in the stomach.

[Giannis Patelis]

That's all right.

[Phil]

They want to see what's in the crop. I mean, forcing a kid to do something is maybe not ideal, but you should at least. I think you gotta get him involved in some of the steps. Right?

[Giannis Patelis]

Like.

[Phil]

But yeah, I mean, I'd lean towards like, you killed it. You're cleaning it.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, because it used to be just like a. You kill it, you eat it. Right?

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

That's like the original version of this. And then I think sort of as. Because I know Steve would just bring meat home to his mom. And his mom would kind of prepare it and then they would eat it. Right. I think that's kind of morphed as we've become parents to. We're like. We're like, oh, no, there's this other thing too. Like, you need to be involved in the whole process.

[Phil]

Right.

[Giannis Patelis]

Because we want them to be. But what I'm scared of is if I force it too much, then she. She's going to be like, screw it. I don't need to kill a turkey. I'll go play volleyball.

[Phil]

Yeah. I mean, maybe try doing it in steps, man. Like, will she Cut the breast off the carcass or just.

[Giannis Patelis]

She's. Yeah, man. She's not huge into any of that stuff. Once it's in the bag and I ask her to run the sealer. Yeah, she'll do that.

[Phil]

I mean, I guess if I was in that situation, I'd rather like and worried about that. You're going to turn her off a hunting altogether. I'd rather have her go hunting with me and not do it.

[Giannis Patelis]

No.

[Phil]

100% force her to do it, and then she doesn't want to go hunting. You know what I mean?

[Giannis Patelis]

Totally.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. My kid was with me on a turkey hunt last year, and it was pretty funny because I'm like, all right, now I gotta gut this thing. And he's like, oh, gross. And started walking towards the truck. And then he, like, stopped and wanted to watch and got very curious about halfway through. And the next thing you know, he's, like, looking up into the turkey and wanting to get his hands dirty. And so.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

That.

[Phil]

I never went through that gross thing, man.

[Brody Henderson]

It's just, like, out of curiosity.

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

I got one in one. I hung out with the turkey's guts for 30 minutes. And I was sort of heading towards the sauna, and she was running around the side of the house with, like, different pieces. What's this? And she come back. What's this? Come back. She took, like, 50 pictures. Yeah. She doesn't mind getting in there.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. You mentioned fish. That's a great starting point. I feel like something about fish and the lack of eyes. Eyebrows that maybe. Or eyelashes. Yeah, that maybe would.

[Phil]

And burger smell really bad.

[Brody Henderson]

Boy, do they ever.

[Giannis Patelis]

Okay, we're gonna do a. We're gonna request that you guys, the listeners. We're gonna do a listener hot tip off showdown. So we want you guys to send in a hot tip. We're gonna play it next week. If I was here, I'd host it on this show on my birthday. But I'm gonna be in Manitoba, hopefully looking over a bunch of bears eating donuts and maple syrup. But Brody wants hot tips for taking kids hunting, fishing, camping, that sort of stuff, because we're celebrating the paperback release of Catch Crayfish Count Stars.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

What do you want to add to that, Brody?

[Phil]

Well, we'll. We'll take all. Everyone's going to send us all those parents out there, you know, it doesn't have to be from parents, but I imagine the bulk of it will be from parents.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, I think if your kid has a hot tip.

[Phil]

Oh, kids, too.

[Giannis Patelis]

Coming straight from the source and have them do it.

[Phil]

Yeah. But anyway, we'll. We'll look through everything we got. We're going to take the three, what we think are three of the best ones. Then in next week's show, the hosts are going to vote on the winner. Now, the three finalists that are going to compete will all get a copy of the book, the paperback copy, and then the winner will get this bad boy knife here. You want to pull it out and show them?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, super sharp MKC maybe.

[Phil]

Like, if you give that knife to your kid, have them be awful careful with it. Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Guaranteed you're going to need some band aids. So if you're the lucky winner, you're going to give that. Let your kid mess with it. Get yourself some band aids ahead of time.

[Brody Henderson]

This is the Montana knife company flat tail.

[Phil]

Yep.

[Brody Henderson]

Little collab we did with MKC.

[Giannis Patelis]

Great. Do it all Hunt knife.

[Phil]

So like 60 to 90 is a long hot tip video.

[Giannis Patelis]

Keep it succinct, folks.

[Phil]

Like 60 seconds is ideal. And then just send that. Send your videos to radio atthe meat eater.com that's. That's the right email address, Corey.

[Brody Henderson]

Yes, sir.

[Phil]

And we'll vote on them next week.

[Brody Henderson]

Send it.

[Giannis Patelis]

That'll be fun. Radio Themeater.com all right, now on to our first guest, Bart George. Joining us today. He's the wildlife program director for the Kalispell tribe. Bart, thanks for joining us. If Meat Eater has a mountain lion expert, Bart is it. We filmed Idaho mountain lion in season 7 of Meat Eater with Bart. Bart's been on several meteor podcast episodes. There's a great one where he tells a story of almost losing one of his hounds and having a. Himself having a very close encounter with the mountain lion. You should go. I can't. I couldn't find the episode number. Sorry. But search around Meter podcast. You can find it. Maybe Corey will find it now. And he was also on a on the hunt episode with yours truly, where I followed along as Bar performed the research that we're going to talk about today. Bart, how are you?

[Bart George]

I'm well. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, you're welcome. All right, explain, like, where this study came from, how it was built, how is how it was executed. But save the results here for a minute.

[Bart George]

Yeah, yeah, of course. So, like I mentioned, I work for the Kalispell tribe. I'm also a hound handler in northeast Washington. I keep dogs and have for, I don't know, 15 or so years here. The state of Washington. You know, hound hunting is illegal here, so there's not a lot of people with dogs. So when they're just, you know, when cougars get in trouble, typically it's with pets or small livestock. In our area, the state has a pool of folks that they'll call to come out and deal with that situation. Typically, it's tree, that cat, and if it's killed something, the state kills it. So Bruce is also on that episode, both the episodes, kind of my hunting partner, mentor, whatever. He and I have been doing this for quite a while. You know, 15 years. We're getting these calls from the state every, you know, once a month or something like that, until about 20, 18 and 19 really picked up. And I don't know what the change was. We didn't. We have no way of really knowing that, but we started seeing a real increase in depredations. You know, when there's a depredation, we go out, catch that cat, kill it, and it becomes property of the state. And typically it's discarded. So, you know, as a. As a hunter, as a tribal representative, whatever, it kind of goes against what we all stand for to see it's such a cool, charismatic, you know, species and carcass just get pitched in the dumpster. So Bruce and I kind of started brainstorming, kind of come up with a way to. To have some sort of proactive response for the state. So when, you know, real common narrative when we were at these depredations, you know, we'd be talking to the farmer or the operator and say, yeah, you know, this cat was hanging around a week ago on my neighbor's place. And then I got a, you know, trail camera picture of it or got a ring doorbell picture of it or whatever a couple days ago. And it hadn't caused any trouble. But now here it, you know, killed llamas or pets or whatever. So we kept here. You know, we heard that a lot. And we got to thinking, like, what if we been out here a week ago when it first showed up and. And chased that cat off? Would it have still hung around and killed something, or would it have, you know, left the area? Or. We don't. We didn't know. So he's kind of started brainstorming, working with the WDFW enforcement crew that we're, you know, we're working with all the time. And we came up with this idea to start hazing the castle. We didn't really know what that looked like yet, and we didn't have the technology to do it. And I'll get into that a little bit in the, in the episode you kind of get to see what we're doing with the collars and different things. So I was buying some collars from Buddy up there at W Pound Supply. He's really, he's a tech guy, you know, he's like an engineering background. He's into that kind of stuff more than I am for sure. And he came up with this idea to develop the sleep mode on our Garmin collar. So then I could put a collar on a cat. That picture you got up is actually the, the largest cougar ever collared that we know of. He's 197 pound male cat we caught right here.

[Giannis Patelis]

No kidding.

[Bart George]

He's a whopper, man, he's big. That was for the state of Washington. We colored that cat for them on their Predator prey project.

[Giannis Patelis]

That's what, that's what an almost 200 pounder looks like.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, you could see the folds in his arm, how much fat he's got just up around his neck.

[Bart George]

Wow. Yeah, if he'd have taken a couple more bites, he'd have tipped the 200 pound mark. Anyways, so working with Buddy and he came up with this idea for a sleep mode on a Garmin collar. So the survey collar, you know the typical wildlife collar, it's a big kind of clunky thing, got a long battery life though. Four years of battery life if it's programmed properly. But, but the Garmin collars, you know, you only get a couple days out of those with the dogs. So we needed a way to get real time data from a cat but have it last long enough that we could, you know, revisit this thing for five or six weeks. So the sleep mode that Garmin developed with Buddy's help kind of made that possible. So we were able then to couple like a regular dog tracking collar onto our regular survey collar and, and then revisit that cat, you know, periodically and see how it's responding to our hazing. So that's the, that was kind of the nexus of the thing then. We needed to come up with a stimuli and we kicked that idea around and you know, in a perfect world we'd have had a whole bunch of time and a bunch of folks helping and a big budget and everything. And we would have tested whole bunch of different stimuli. But we settled on human voice just because for, you know, public safety hiking, for people yelling at a cat to, you know, move it along or whatever else. We just thought human voice made the most sense. But I would have liked to test it, you Know, dogs barking or an engine or a car horn honking or whatever as the stimuli. So the stimuli that we settled on was meat eater podcasts. It works nicely, and you guys have big, loud voices and everything else, and yet there's not a lot of dead time in it. Other podcasts with, like, long gaps and people, like, ruminating silently, that doesn't. We wanted. We wanted constant talking.

[Giannis Patelis]

So you're saying this is a crew of talkers we have here, huh?

[Bart George]

Yeah, man. When Steve gets going, he doesn't stop. He doesn't come up rare. It's like, keeps it going, constant talk. And that's what we wanted. We didn't want to have gaps or music or anything else.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, so. And you were. So you were. Yeah, you were measuring, basically, what you were walking towards collared lines. You knew the location, and then you were measuring, and you had a loudspeaker playing the meteor podcast. It was 80 decibels, right?

[Bart George]

Yep, 80 decibels. And that's a. You know, that's a kind of an outside voice, right? In a. If you're at a cocktail party, 80 decibels probably wouldn't be obnoxious when you're out in the woods, like, and it's quiet, it's loud enough that it's carrying a couple hundred yards.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Bart George]

So we expected those cats to be hearing us approach with this human voice stimuli, and we're able. Like I said, we know exactly where they're at. We're looking at our handheld. We know where we're at, where the cat's at. We approach with this human voice, and we're watching. As soon as that cat gets up to his feet and kind of flees, we stop, gather up our data, and we see how it responds to us. Like, how does it. You know, how. How scared of us is. Is it? So we're able to measure then how far that cat moves away. And when it stops, we'd hop on, you know, we'd radio back. They turn the dogs loose. The dogs would come to us, find the cat track, and they'd run that cat, tree it. The first time we'd tree it, we'd mark it with paintballs, permanent paint. And that was kind of the only hands on, you know, that was the only real whatever hazing that we did, other than the dogs barking. We wanted to test if it could associate then, like, this human voice approaching it and then this negative interaction. So we did that with cats, and we would do that four times with. With each cat. And that was kind of our data set. So each cat had its own unique sort of data set with four points on it. We also did a control portion. So then we would take cats and approach them exactly the same way with the speaker playing. And when they mobilize, they'd leave. And then we turn around and just walk out.

[Giannis Patelis]

No hazing.

[Bart George]

No hazing. We just wanted to see how that cat would respond.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. And how many, how many total cats did you end up collaring and doing this to?

[Bart George]

Well, we collared more. We ended up with trying to, you know, we had some trouble at first getting technology figured out. I think totally total cats collared and handled was around 50, but we got complete data on 41 cats. Okay, that's a pretty good, pretty good sample size. It's a little bit heavy on males, but not bad. So we were able to get, you know, they were all adults. We didn't call her sub adult animals. And we tried not to. We tried not to capture females that had accompanying young just because it muddies the data. When we show up and there's three cats there, we don't know which one runs first. Is it, you know, it's one of those sub adults get spooked and run off and the mom follows her. Like we just didn't know.

[Giannis Patelis]

Sure, sure.

[Bart George]

So independent aged, independent cats are what we were after.

[Corey]

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[Giannis Patelis]

All right, so these cats all heard Steven R's voice a whole bunch. How did they how did they react to that?

[Bart George]

Positively, I guess, or negatively?

[Giannis Patelis]

I don't.

[Bart George]

Depends how you look at it.

[Giannis Patelis]

They were.

[Bart George]

They learned to. To avoid us. It really indicated that the pursuit with the dogs can alter their response to this sort of. What should have been a benign stimulus with the human voice. So it's called a. It's called a flight initiation distance project. And they do them with birds a lot because birds are easy.

[Giannis Patelis]

Right.

[Bart George]

If a bird's sitting on a telephone pole, power pole, you can walk out and measure how close it lets you get and all that stuff.

[Giannis Patelis]

Sure.

[Bart George]

Cougars are a lot harder than that. They're secretive. So this is kind of the first flight initiation distance project with cats. And our data, you know, for our project cats, looking at it right now, our mean flight initiation distance increased from 75 at our first interaction, 75 meters, to 128 meters by the fourth interaction. So almost doubled, which is pretty good. And you start thinking about just limitations to this. They can only hear you from so far away.

[Giannis Patelis]

Sure.

[Bart George]

128 meters is a pretty good distance. And then the distance moved was really interesting. It almost doubled. Went from 278 meters to 582 meters.

[Giannis Patelis]

Wow.

[Bart George]

They really wanted to get away from us. By the end of this thing, they recognized that, you know, this person approaching me is bad news. It means something bad is about to happen.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. When you. When you hear Steven Rinella coming through the woods, there's going to be a pack of hounds not long after.

[Bart George]

That's right. If you're a wildlife and you hear Rinella walking towards you, better skedaddle. The control portion was interesting, and that was a little bit later in the game. We really struggled with how to develop this control idea. So it didn't start until about midway through the project. We wanted to first see if we were getting good data on our project cats. And the control cats showed an interesting thing. Our flight initiation distance decreased. You know, it started at 68. We only had a N value of about, I think, 12 for our control cats, but started at 68, which is very close to what we saw with our project cats at 75, and it actually decreased down to 35 meters. So by the end of that project, those cats recognized pretty quickly that this human voice doesn't. Isn't that scary? It doesn't mean very much to them.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, interesting. So was. And was it. Did it show clearly that basically with every touch point, it was getting closer by just a little bit, or was it kind of all over the place? Would you jump sometimes from 68 to 14. Or is it like always 68, then 50, then 40 and then 20.

[Bart George]

Yeah, there were certainly some cats that weren't that linear, but there were some that really tracked, like you're describing really closely to that. That was a little heavy on toms. We ended up with a lot of toms late in the project, so we don't know if the females would have responded accordingly. But yeah, by. There's some of those cats, you know, 35 meters is just the mean. But three or four of those cats, by the last approach, we were walking up and looking at, you know, we'd stop at 10 meters. That was a kind of what we called, you know, close enough. We'd stop at 10 meters and we'd be laying there in the brush looking at each other. So those cats weren't afraid of us at all. That human voice they had recognized as not something to be concerned with, which is really interesting. You know, that's like. When you think about these cats in parks and along hiking trails and stuff like that, you know, there's maybe a hundred people a day walking by, talking to each other and stuff. And they've just learned, like, yeah, just. Just be still and let them pass.

[Giannis Patelis]

Sure, yeah. It's a wonder we don't have more attacks. And, you know, who knows, who can explain that? But. All right, so you can see there's like two. I don't know, there's a lot of ways to look at this, but it's like one, it's. It's good information for the cats. Right. And for saving cats. Because as opposed to you guys just coming out, killing these cats and then they go into the dumpster, like, if you can show that these cats by a little bit of hazing, then learn to stay away from humans. That saves cat lives. Right?

[Bart George]

So, yeah, that's the idea. Right. We want those things out on the landscape for. For hunters or whatever else.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. Just to, I don't know, be a part of the. The, you know, lands landscape that is wildlife out there. So, like, how has the research been received? Are people reading it, looking at it, and then is it changing any minds or is it affecting management at all? Management thoughts, decisions in Washington.

[Bart George]

You know, I don't know if it's made any major, you know, led to any changes just yet. I think it's being well received for the most part. There's, of course, people trying to make it into something that it's not on. You know, it's not a silver bullet. It's not it's not going to correct all cougar public safety issues or depredations or whatever. But I think it's another tool for managers to consider when, you know, you have a landscape with lots of people on it and lots of cougars around and you want to kind of lead to that sort of safe coexistence, it just gives managers another tool. And I think it's being received by managers fairly well in that way. You know, there's a. There's a lot of movement right now with cougar management across the West. There's a, you know, people aren't going anywhere. Cougar populations seem to be stable or increasing in a lot of places. So, yeah, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful it gets picked up, and people kind of consider that before, you know, killing a cat potentially needlessly. And also when they're thinking about, you know, policy and. And opportunities for hound handlers to get out and sort of recreationally pursue these cats, there's maybe an opportunity to get ahead of some of these things all together, just through recreational hound pursuits.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, you know, it's such a weird idea. Like, before I got into hound hunting, I would have never thought that there would be people out there that'd be like, oh, yeah, I just want to go and chase these cats. I don't even need to kill them. Like, just, like, going out and, you know, participating in trying to catch one, catching them, taking pictures and then leaving them. That will be plenty to keep me excited now that I've done it. Like, I totally get it. Like, you don't have to have a kill season to have hound people be super into it.

[Bart George]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's just. It's a cool thing. And a lot of, you know, hound handlers have been really strong advocates for wildlife protections across the West. Just recently in Wyoming, there's the hound groups that kind of squashed a bill that would have an idea that would have really probably damaged cougar populations in that state. And the, you know, pound handlers have came to the plate several times to sort of protect cats because they want something to do on the weekends. They want to be pursuing.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Bart George]

Cougars, taking their picture, working their dogs. I mean, that's kind of the important thing. Now that you have Mingus, you sort of recognize how much, you know, that having a dog in the hunt saying really means.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, yeah. That's another thing, too. If you're out there and your dog's not there because he's out on injured reserve or whatever, you might as well, just stay home because it ain't no fun.

[Bart George]

You've had your own dogs in the races. It's not as much fun.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, Bart, thanks for doing the work and thanks for coming and telling us about. It is if anybody wants to learn more about this project or actually look at your re. The results, Results of the research. Where can they go to find that?

[Bart George]

I emailed you guys over a copy of the final publication. You can share that if you'd like.

[Giannis Patelis]

Okay.

[Bart George]

You know, that episode that. The episode that we did really describes the process of the hazing pretty well. They can check that out also.

[Giannis Patelis]

Okay, cool. Thank you. Have a good day, Bart. We'll. We'll be in touch soon.

[Bart George]

All right, thanks, guys.

[Brody Henderson]

Thanks.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right, I'm watching the clock finally. After an hour, I see that we've burned up 60 minutes and even gotten.

[Randall Williams]

To the first listener feedback.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, we haven't even gotten a listener feedback, so we're gonna do that. I'm gonna also, while Phil's doing that, I'm gonna also ask you guys to sort of just, you know, in the chat kind of vote if you guys would rather hear Gear talk or show and tell, because here's the thing.

[Randall Williams]

I was gonna call an audible. I'm gonna suggest something because this is, if the audience hasn't noticed, this show's a little different this week. We had to make a last minute change. So we're kind of just mixing things up. And the feel of the show's a little. It's a little unfamiliar. So I'm thinking we just do one listener feedback at the very, very end.

[Giannis Patelis]

Feels very familiar to me.

[Brody Henderson]

Sure.

[Randall Williams]

I think we just do one listener feedback at the very end. That'll be the last thing we do. I think we can cruise through Gear talk and show and tell just back to back.

[Phil]

I like it.

[Brody Henderson]

I think Phil wants to share his sound drops and I really want.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, okay. That's true. I forgot that he had a special new sound.

[Randall Williams]

I just. I just hate cutting things. It makes. Because we had to cut something last week. It made me feel bad.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right, well, Josh Miller, if you're watching or listening, you know, get your program together so you can join us on a future episode because it's going to be entertaining for everybody when we. When we get to see how you run this program, because I got a lot of questions for Josh in this program. All right, so I like that. So we're going to save listener feedback for the end. That's what you want to do, Phil?

[Randall Williams]

Yeah. So get some More questions in.

[Giannis Patelis]

Okay. Bring some more questions. So now we're on to gear talk. Let's talk about gear, baby. Let's talk about scopes and beats. Let's talk about boots and binos.

[Randall Williams]

Camo patterns with Yani.

[Giannis Patelis]

Let's talk about here. Let's talk about gear. Let's talk about.

[Brody Henderson]

Hell yeah.

[Randall Williams]

There we go. I told you, I told the crew I was gonna do a different song. I was gonna. I was gonna do Jive Talking, the Bee Gees, but there were just. There was too many harmonies and I was feeling lazy this morning. So we're not. I stuck with that one, man.

[Brody Henderson]

If that was lazy, that's.

[Giannis Patelis]

You nailed it, Phil. We should just come up with a new segment every week so that Phil has to do a new.

[Phil]

Phil has to come in here at six in the morning before everyone's here and like hide in here and do.

[Giannis Patelis]

But you can hear it in his voice when he's doing it. He. That's what he loves about his job. That's what he loves about it. All right, gear talk. Who wants to go first?

[Phil]

Well, you're just going the order.

[Giannis Patelis]

Go in the order that it's written. All right. All right. I recently I've had this cooler for a while, but I got to use it again at turkey camp. We had the right kind of weather last year. Turkey camp was so cold, I didn't even bring these suckers out. Now listen, this is mega expensive gear. I didn't pay for mine, but it's cool. Okay?

[Brody Henderson]

No pun intended.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, no pun. You can make it cold. You can make ice if you want. Yes, it is a solar powered cooler made by Dometic. Okay. Roughly you're going to be in to it. The cooler is going to go depending on the size, plus or minus, couple hundred bucks, A thousand. Then you also need a solar panel and you also need a battery that stores. There you go. There's a picture of. Of my setup. So the juice goes. Is captured by the solar panel. It goes into the battery, is stored there and then into the cooler. You can't go direct solar panel to the cooler.

[Phil]

How many quarts is that cooler?

[Giannis Patelis]

That one is. They call it the 55. The nice thing about these coolers is that, and I would call them, it's more of a refrigerator that is in the shape of a cooler than it being an actual cooler. It's definitely not as insulated as a yeti. Like if you just used it as a cooler and didn't have power to it, it's not going to Work as well as a yeti would. But if you've got it set up like this, and that battery. I haven't tried it just alone, but you could probably not have sun or ditch a solar panel. You could. I'm guessing you could run that cooler at 38 degrees for three to four days off that battery, which, you know, gets you through a lot of camping trips, Memorial weekend. But, man, the real benefit. And I don't know, is it worth 1600 bucks for the whole kit and caboodle? I don't know. You got to buy a lot. You got to not buy a lot of bags of ice for it to pay for itself.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, yeah. Buck 50 a bag.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. But, like, not having the wetness in the bottom of the cooler, not having to deal with the ice, just constantly knowing that, like, oh, no, this thing at all times is 33 degrees or whatever you set it up to. It's pretty sweet. It, like, it just takes out that element of dealing with the ice, Wondering if your stuff's getting too warm. And especially, like, we. We had some birds that needed cooling down. Right. I used to always bring a separate cooler with separate ice, Keep it locked down so that when I get turkey meat, I can jam it in there, It'll get cold, and I can get it home. Well, this time, we basically just process the birds, put them into ziplocs, and gave them their own little, you know, quadrant of that refrigerator, and they're just in there doing their thing. No. Don't have to worry about any kind of meat spoilage.

[Phil]

All the comforts of home.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. No, listen, when your buddies showed up in camp, which we had, do they. They were giving me some. They're like, dude, like, did you have to, like, have a. No. Another trailer with you to carry all this with you?

[Brody Henderson]

Say it looks like it takes up the whole back end of your taco.

[Giannis Patelis]

It doesn't, actually. I mean, if you think about it, I brought two, and I was actually just swapping. I would just unplug one and plug the other one in, and then they would. They would work that way. But that solar panel, it's skinny, so you just kind of slide it in anywhere you want. The battery is, I don't know, size of maybe three nalgene bottles, so it definitely doesn't take up any more room. But the big benefit is that. Yeah, no ice. No ice mess. It's got a setting in there. I haven't done it yet. I haven't been drinking because I'm getting ready for the big race. So. I didn't have to bring any ice for cocktails. But it's got a deal where you can go to the lowest setting and then you basically have like a little mini compartment that sits right on the compressor and you can actually make ice in the field.

[Brody Henderson]

That's a game changer if you like.

[Giannis Patelis]

To have your whiskey on the rocks.

[Brody Henderson]

Well, yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Brody, what do you got?

[Phil]

I got these bad little mama jamas here. This is the Sig Zulu. What are these?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, Zulu 6.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Phil]

So these are the image stabilizing binos that Sig Sauer makes. And I'm generally pretty slow to adopt like new technology, but if you've never looked through these things, like it's impossible to explain to someone who hasn't looked through one of these. And just use to regular binos the difference that it makes. Like freehand and binos, especially on like western spot and stock hunts. It just sucks. Like you have to have a tripod. You still do, but with these, like you can kick back and throw them up on your knees and actually do a little work with them without a tripod. And it gives your neck and your shoulders a break. You're not hunched over that, that tripod all day long. And you can certainly set them up for a tripod. The reason I like these is not for tripod glass and, or big spot and stock hunts. I like them because they're small. They're 10 by 30s.

[Giannis Patelis]

So they're light.

[Phil]

They're light. So like turkey season. Great. If I was a tree stand whitetail hunter, they'd be ideal for that. And we've been talking about kids a lot today. Like they're awesome for kids because especially younger kids just have trouble holding binos steady enough to look at. And you're like, the deer's over there and they're just like all over the place with those things. They can actually see stuff.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Phil]

So my, my boys will definitely be carrying, carrying those this fall. Deer hunting and stuff.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. They're small enough that I was carrying them in the pocket.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Of my first light turkey vest.

[Phil]

Yeah. Yeah, definitely like a 10 by 30. It's not, not a wide field of view. Right. Like it's for long range class and it's not going to be ideal, but they make. What are they, 12 by 50s?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, I can't. Well, yeah, those are in the, the newer version.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

They make, they have a bigger objective with a bigger field of view. But I actually prefer these older versions or the first. Not older, but the first iteration just because it is A smaller package and it just. They're, yeah. Super tidy. I love it.

[Phil]

And I, I would probably. I'll. I'll carry. I may even carry these and my regular glass and binos this fall. Like deer and elk hunting.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. Like you said for hand holding, when you're just going to like quickly need to scan a hillside or you see something moving, you need to get on it quick. Those things are amazing. Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

I guess we're on the battery train or everything that needs charging or takes batteries. But yeah, I am in love with this new. Well, it's not new, but new to me. The uncharted supply company's the Zeus Air, which is Air Inflator.

[Giannis Patelis]

How come I don't have one of those, Corey?

[Brody Henderson]

Beats me.

[Giannis Patelis]

I thought your whole job was to keep me decked out with all the bitching stuff.

[Brody Henderson]

No. I'm also a podcast producer. But this thing will pump up any tires, bike tires to truck tires. It also will jump start a vehicle up to a 6 liter diesel engine, which I haven't had to use that.

[Phil]

Yet, but that's a big engine.

[Brody Henderson]

Battery is probably seven years old. So one of these days it's just not going to start for me. I do have a little like pin leak in my truck tire, passenger side tire. So I've had to use this every couple of days. Definitely going to take it with me camping. It's just a good thing to have in the truck all the time. Also, charge usb, both types of USB cords. Has a little handy dandy flashlight on it that'll blind you if you're not.

[Giannis Patelis]

How much does that thing cost?

[Brody Henderson]

250 bucks.

[Phil]

That's reasonable.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, I mean there's some other ones out there, like Dewalt makes one, but it's like three times the size. It's pretty amazing how much power is packed into this little kit right here.

[Phil]

What kind of jacks does it got?

[Brody Henderson]

Like USB and like USB and USB C. Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

So it comes with its own little cables though, to say if you had to. If you had to hit your battery.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep. Comes with the jumper cables and then the hose to inflate your tire. And it works. It's kind of slow, but it works well. Like I've used it a few times and I don't know, you could probably get all four tires filled up on one, like from flat to filled like in my Tundra before the battery ran out. It's pretty impressive. I've been carrying this thing everywhere, so. Always good to have in the truck.

[Giannis Patelis]

Okay, Corey wins Gear talk.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, didn't realize it was a competition.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right, on to our next segment. Show and tell.

[Phil]

Oh, good choice, Phil.

[Randall Williams]

This is my shriekiest one. It's a little out of my range. What else did you.

[Giannis Patelis]

Did you expect?

[Brody Henderson]

No rocks today, baby.

[Randall Williams]

No. Spencer.

[Bart George]

Sorry.

[Giannis Patelis]

Of course. Course he brought a rock.

[Randall Williams]

I love this. I love this bit of Yanni just complaining about Spencer all the time. It's my favorite.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, I didn't know that Spencer is the whole reason we just don't get to come on here and tell hunting stories. Especially when all the viewers are like, tell us more hunting stories.

[Brody Henderson]

This is kind.

[Giannis Patelis]

Spencer's like, no, this show is kind of like Spence.

[Brody Henderson]

This show is kind of his baby.

[Giannis Patelis]

Is it?

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. You're the producer.

[Randall Williams]

Does a great job.

[Brody Henderson]

But it's. It all started and, you know, kind of morphs off of Spencer's ideas. So hats off to Spencer.

[Randall Williams]

Come on the show more often, Yanni. You can crash it and tell more hunting stories.

[Giannis Patelis]

Hey, love to have Corey knows exactly when I'm available to host.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right. For show and tell today, I brought in my axes buck euro mount. And this is from a buck that I killed with the Element Boys in, let's see, February of 24. So a little over the over a year ago. I like the way it turned out. This is my first animal that I've ever sort of kept the velvet on the outfitter and the Element Boys were really impressed. They say this, this might have been the biggest one they were going to kill the whole season. They think that it's like top 10 or 20 archery sci axes.

[Phil]

No.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yes.

[Phil]

Which.

[Giannis Patelis]

Go ahead.

[Phil]

Well, I've just never been close enough to a set of those antlers to get a feel for like looking at it on video. You can't tell how big or small they are.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And this isn't a. This isn't a insult to you in any way, but those antlers are smaller than I thought they would be.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. I mean, Axis deer is not a giant animal. Right. Like, it's an animal that you can buy yourself drag along.

[Phil]

Right.

[Giannis Patelis]

You know, sorry.

[Brody Henderson]

I'll say in the video with the Element Boys, when you kill this thing, he looks huge on the hoof.

[Giannis Patelis]

No offense to the beautiful trophy next to some does he's next to smaller bucks.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. That really shows his size in that video.

[Giannis Patelis]

I feel like totally. What's. I think the. The thing that I like to share about it though. He's a great hunt. Had a great, great time with everybody there and outlaw outfitters. If you're looking for a good access deer hunt team outlaw, I believe. But yeah. So you guys know what makes law, I guess trophies or whatever is long brow tines. And then I can't remember what they called these. Something with a P. It's. Anyways, when these are as tall as the main beam, then he gets to be a big boy. But this is a reminder to me that for me to get excited about hunting and killing certain species, I need to have some amount of exposure to them more than I have with an axis deer. Now that I've done it three days, I'm kind of excited to go back. I'd like to go back during. When they're really roaring in the rut, which is middle of summer in Texas. Wow. So it's kind of an adventure because you're going to be out there with the snakes, you know, and the heat.

[Brody Henderson]

And the heat.

[Giannis Patelis]

But like now I know a little bit about them and I'm kind of like. I'm titillated by it and I want to experience more of it. But like how excited these guys were to see this animal. For me, I was like, I don't know. It's like the fourth buck I've ever seen. It's just another. It's just another axis to me. I don't know. Do you guys ever feel that, unlike when you're like when you come to new territory, new animal, but like, you don't know the landscape, you don't know the animal, it's kind of hard to. You don't have a connection, right?

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Especially with I've. It'd be especially true with a species like that which isn't even native to North America.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, exactly. You got to go to India.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. I just recently did an odd ad hunt and never seen one before. So I was basing everything off of big horn sheep that I've seen thousands of and very different animal. Similar but different.

[Giannis Patelis]

Totally. So that was.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. Difficult to.

[Giannis Patelis]

Did you feel a connection with that. Ow. Dad. Or once I were. You put my hand on disconnected.

[Brody Henderson]

No, once I put my hands on them, there was a full on connection. But before that, nothing.

[Phil]

No.

[Corey]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness Month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up, just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE83. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right, Brody, would you bring Corey.

[Phil]

You want to help me?

[Bart George]

Oh, yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

It'S a truck.

[Randall Williams]

I feel like I need a drum roll here.

[Giannis Patelis]

You do these boys, for those of you just listening and not looking, it's taken two of them to lift up and. Oh, look at that. And move.

[Randall Williams]

Move a little bit further in there.

[Giannis Patelis]

They're moving. Brody's giant moose skull and antlers that he killed. And was that last fall? Yeah, last fall.

[Phil]

Finally got it back.

[Giannis Patelis]

Man, what a beauty. That's bigger than my dad's.

[Phil]

I guess I should sit down and talk about it, huh, Phil?

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, this might be a problem. Sorry we don't have more hold.

[Giannis Patelis]

You can't.

[Randall Williams]

Flexible mic situations.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, try to sit down.

[Giannis Patelis]

You need. You need me to help you to get positioned?

[Phil]

Oh, no.

[Brody Henderson]

We're live.

[Giannis Patelis]

All right.

[Phil]

We can just rest it there, man. So, yeah, this is my first and only bull moose, Alaska Yukon moose, brought in for a couple reasons, just because moose antlers are super cool. But one of the reasons is the bulls. And Giannis knows this from his dad killing one. And not in the same spot, but same general zone of Alaska. The bulls in. In that area tend to have these really big fronts. He's like almost like a second palm, you know?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. And a lot.

[Phil]

A lot of bulls will just have, like, couple tines coming out. So it just. Just makes these particular bulls really, really neat. The other reason I brought it in is this is the first big game animal whose skull I paid to have done. Normally, I clean all my skulls by simmering them in water and then cleaning them up. I paid to have this one beetled. And the main reason is, is if you look how this. These antlers come off of the skull. You can't get it down there in a pot.

[Giannis Patelis]

That's right.

[Phil]

Like, there's a way to do it where you can make notches in a big pot and all that. But I didn't want to mess with it so I paid to have it beetled. And I think beetled skulls look better than can look better than the boiled ones.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, they're definitely stronger. Yeah, they'll hold up longer.

[Brody Henderson]

Brutal.

[Giannis Patelis]

Where's that, where are you hanging that thing?

[Phil]

Haven't decided yet.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh so it's not even on a wall yet?

[Phil]

Not yet. I just put the, the.

[Giannis Patelis]

The wire.

[Phil]

The wire into it the other day. So yeah I gotta, gotta pick a spot.

[Giannis Patelis]

How much you do. Have you weighed it?

[Phil]

I'm guessing 60, 56. You think?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, I know what the really when I went to that DNC or D& E is that who shipped yours too?

[Phil]

Trophies. Trophy, Alaska Trophy Express.

[Giannis Patelis]

I went into one of those in I think it was Fairbanks and we were going to ship my dad's which was a pretty average 53, 54 inch bowl or something. Nice fronts. And there's a couple of the big boys in there. Dude, they were so big that I picked them up and could only hold them long enough for a snap a picture before I had to set them down.

[Phil]

Yeah, there was two bulls when we got back in into the town. The hangar from the air service we're using, you know there's. There's 20, 30 bull skulls.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Phil]

In there there was a 68 and a 72. The, the 68 was like my thigh. His bases and I'm guessing weighed close to £100. I mean amazing. So yeah like packing this thing out. My guess is around 60. Corey says more.

[Brody Henderson]

I don't know. Feels. Yeah.

[Phil]

Maybe seven.

[Brody Henderson]

It's hard to say but I was relate to like a 50 pound trophy.

[Phil]

Of a lifetime for me.

[Bart George]

More than that.

[Phil]

Let's put this sucker down.

[Brody Henderson]

Okay.

[Giannis Patelis]

Thanks for bringing that in.

[Phil]

Yeah, that's.

[Giannis Patelis]

That's a lot of effort. Brody's really committed to this episode. Again if you're just listening at home, we were just looking at Brody's. How wide was yours? Mid mid 50s. 55 inch Alaska Yukon Moose head. Beautiful.

[Phil]

All right. Corey.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh Corey, what'd you bring?

[Phil]

Let's see.

[Giannis Patelis]

Corey brought an antler too.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep. It's the horn episode all right.

[Giannis Patelis]

Man, that thing is dark as can be. You found it that dark? Have you, have you added some shoe polish?

[Phil]

I told him it looks like a Roosevelt.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Okay, now look at it in the camera. It looks a little better but this is the coolest shed I've ever found. And if You're. If you're listening and not watching, you should probably go watch. It's got teeny tiny fronts, but it's third crab claws and splits. And he's got amazing.

[Giannis Patelis]

That ain't no crab claw, dude. You can't call that a crab claw. What is it?

[Brody Henderson]

Lobster claw?

[Giannis Patelis]

No, but I mean it's just like a split G3. Yeah, it's A. Yeah, crab claw means it's like little bitty crab claw.

[Brody Henderson]

Well, it's huge though.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

And I don't know. That's like a 21 inch inline coming out of. Off of his fourth off his royal tine.

[Giannis Patelis]

Dude, that thing. Listen, Corey, his numbers. There's no way that's 21 inches. That extra point.

[Brody Henderson]

It might be 17. You count it from down here.

[Giannis Patelis]

I'll have to look. Give it the old hand.

[Phil]

17.

[Brody Henderson]

It might be 17. I can't remember the whole thing. The whole thing. Scored. This shed scored 178.

[Giannis Patelis]

170.

[Brody Henderson]

And that's not guessing. That's with.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Boone and Crockett.

[Phil]

So 180, 360 plus. So four hundo with the spread.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yep.

[Phil]

Dang.

[Brody Henderson]

But the coolest part about this is how I found it. So this bowl. Phil, I don't know if you want to play the video.

[Randall Williams]

Oh yeah, hold on a sec.

[Brody Henderson]

I used to guide on a ranch in Montana here. And this bowl was found in September. This video was taken by the ranch owner slash outfitter. And this is the first time we had seen this bull. Anybody had seen him. And this was in September of 2016.

[Giannis Patelis]

And is that the antler you're holding?

[Brody Henderson]

No. So this is. So, yeah. It's probably a year or two years after this shed was dropped. When this video was taken. You can tell he regressed a little bit. Every tines a little bit shorter at least on this side. Look at that inline off. His fourth is only 7 inches.

[Phil]

They ever get him?

[Brody Henderson]

So he. We couldn't kill him in September. We didn't have that many hunters in archery season, but come rifle season, that was like the bull everybody wanted just because he was such a freak. I called him T Rex because he just looked like a dinosaur.

[Phil]

Good name choice.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

And he alluded to a lot of hunters for three weeks. And my hunter on the third week really wanted to fully commit to finding this one. And now the bull had moved a few miles from where this video was taken to another spot like a little juniper hell hole kind of Missouri break.

[Phil]

Style like they do.

[Brody Henderson]

And he would. People would see him from far off, like not being able to put much of a stock on him or they'd see him and try and put a stock on him. And he eluded a lot of hunters, a lot of really good guides that have killed a lot of elk. And. And on the third week, my client and I were sitting up on a knob looking down into this spot where he was last seen. We caught a glimpse of a huge bull by himself at like 11 o' clock in the afternoon coming over a hill. We dropped everything and rallied down to try and kill him. And the second drainage that we went through, I stumbled across this shed sitting there and nobody had seen him prior to that year. So he was some. He was on the ranch obviously, at least in the spring, I'm assuming the year before, maybe two years before, but probably the year before. And then the next week we didn't end up killing the bull. He, it ended up being another giant seven point that we passed up because he really wanted this one. He ended up killing a different bull on the last day. But on the, the next final week of the hunt, one of the last days of rifle season, this bull was killed in the same exact area by another hunter. So he did go down eventually. But yeah, it's the coolest shed I'll ever find and I'm not a shed hunter. I just pick them up when I come across them. Shed hunting's gotten a little out of control these days and if it's, if it's hip, I'm not doing it.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, that's an amazing one.

[Brody Henderson]

That's my story.

[Giannis Patelis]

That's a once in a lifetime shed.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Phil, are we at the 2 hour mark yet?

[Randall Williams]

Not quite, but I think, I think, I think there is going to be an extra commercial break so we'll hit.

[Giannis Patelis]

90 minutes by the time we're done with questions. I saw one I for sure want to answer about one week in November. Oh yes, please do.

[Randall Williams]

I'm always skeptical to choose ones based on programming that I don't know about and I don't want to, you know, cause any hubbub. So if you want to answer that one, have at it.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, I can't remember who, what the fellow's name was. I'll try to find Gal for that matter. But they asked if there's going to be another one week in November show and if you didn't watch it, should go back and watch it. But that's where a bunch of us were hunting. Different locations but on the same days. And then we sort of showed the communication that we had through text chats and just phone calls and sort of as the one week in November went on, I thought it was a cool idea. Problem with it is that like every kind of wants to be hunting somewhere sometime. We have other hunts where you might want to be doing. It was hard to get everybody to do another one because I think we did two seasons so far. So we just got an invite to go hunt somewhere pretty far south still in the United States, but southern, where the rut is later. And we could do this in January. So we're trying to put together a one week in January where we all would be on this in on the same location hunting the same whitetails.

[Brody Henderson]

That's cool.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. So it's in the works. Hopefully we will pull it pull it off this upcoming January. You'll probably get see to to see it. Fall of 26. Thanks for the question, Garrett.

[Brody Henderson]

I still think we need to do one week in September. Get four guys out in different, different states hunting elk. See what the rut's like. Use inreach.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, my gosh, we totally forgot. We're going to check. I forgot to put this in the intro. Let's check to see if Yanni drew his Wyoming elk tag.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, that's a great idea. I'll play a little music.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, we got time.

[Randall Williams]

That's fine. I'll play the Price is White product music here now.

[Phil]

You seriously haven't looked yet?

[Giannis Patelis]

I haven't.

[Phil]

Oh, boy.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, how long you drop? Son of a gun. No, it. No, it signed me out.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, here we go. Yanni, how many points do you have?

[Giannis Patelis]

I think I had 14 going into this year.

[Brody Henderson]

Must be hunting for a trophy unit then.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, buddy. Oh, buddy. Verify the information is correct. Yes, continue.

[Randall Williams]

This is compelling podcasting. I love it.

[Giannis Patelis]

This was. This was Corey's.

[Randall Williams]

This was my idea. It sounds like I'm being sarcastic, but I think this is fun. Well, yeah, to do it live on the show.

[Giannis Patelis]

I didn't draw.

[Brody Henderson]

No way.

[Giannis Patelis]

Non resident mountain goat and non resident special elk unsuccessful for both.

[Brody Henderson]

Man, dang time's tough out here in the west western states.

[Giannis Patelis]

It's gosh, back to the hoping board or whatever.

[Phil]

You'll just be slumming here in general season.

[Giannis Patelis]

What a downer to end this podcast on. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

We have breaking news from the live chat.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, bring it, Randall Williams.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, not hello, mogul. I mean, yes, hello mogul. But he said. Did you hear guys hear about Randall's turkey hunt this morning? He got one.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, man, we should have called him in.

[Phil]

Who was his guide?

[Randall Williams]

I don't know. Possibly Max. I just know he didn't invite me, but that's fine.

[Giannis Patelis]

Pete. Munich probably.

[Bart George]

Wow.

[Brody Henderson]

Way to go.

[Giannis Patelis]

Random breaking news.

[Randall Williams]

Bad luck for Yanni. Good luck for Randall. Congrats, Randall.

[Brody Henderson]

He probably was hunting at Walmart or Town and Country.

[Randall Williams]

Matthias is upset that we didn't talk More ice fishing this winter. Do you guys have any ice fishing stories or anything fun happen?

[Phil]

Oh, man, I like.

[Giannis Patelis]

It's because everybody's given up on the ice here in south in southwestern Montana.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, we're certainly.

[Phil]

There's good ice this year. It's just.

[Giannis Patelis]

No, no, no, no. Yeah, sorry, I phrased that wrong. They've given up on the fishing beneath the ice. Whether it's good or not, you just have to go a long ways. Like there isn't great ice fishing. I mean, I mean if you're happy just catching these little perch and bluegills out of the local ponds, sure, yeah. But yeah, we just don't have it great. And so I think everybody's like, they don't know. Wants to drive four hours.

[Phil]

Right.

[Giannis Patelis]

For ice fishing.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, no, sorry, no good stories this year.

[Randall Williams]

Go fly fishing this winter at the top. Before the show even started, Tucker said how quick do we think the removal of federal lands from the big beautiful bill will come up? Well, Tucker, it's been about 90 minutes. So do you guys want to say anything about that?

[Phil]

Yeah, I mean I figured by now hopefully most of the people out there know what happened, that the, the sell off of public lands was withdrawn from. It was cut out of the bill. And our, our home state senator Ryan Zinke kind of led the charge to go rogue and go against his Republican counterparts along with a small group of other western congressmen. And so that stuff got cut out. It's not. The land's not going to get sold. So it's good news. But I'm assuming by now most people have great news.

[Giannis Patelis]

What was interesting to me is that I didn't catch the talk about the public land sell off anywhere besides my sort of like hunting Instagram channel.

[Phil]

I saw it in a couple of like major news.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh, you did?

[Phil]

Yeah. So it was like it was. Someone was covering it and they mentioned this morning when they went through what was cut out of the bill. It was mentioned in there. It's great news. Unfortunately, like, I think that a lot of people aren't aware that like, like there's a couple of things that remained in that bill which aren't cool, which is boundary Waters like mining right next to it could still happen. And protections in ANWAR are being lifted. ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE so while lands aren't getting sold, there's certainly public lands that are are still in danger. So there's a reason to keep paying attention to what happens with this.

[Giannis Patelis]

That's right. So take a break for a day or two. Then we got to get right back to the fight and give your reps another call. Tell them how you feel about mining next to the wilderness area in Minnesota and how you feel about drilling in anwar.

[Phil]

Yep, yep.

[Randall Williams]

Devin says. Hey, Giannis, seen the new video with you and Randall blowing stuff up with the new SIG 277 Fury cartridge. What was your favorite thing to blow up that day and what did you like about the cartridge?

[Giannis Patelis]

The watermelon definitely looked the coolest. You know, we did blow up some, some sort of fake ballistics gel animals that also had blood inside of the ballistics gel, which was surprising. We didn't know that was a part of it. So that was fun too. But I, I'd say if you're going to go shoot something, the watermelon is the thing to do. It's a little wasteful. So you might have to buy two so you can eat the other one. The cartridge. Yeah, man. It's a short action. So it's going to be a lightweight gun with magnum power. What don't you like about that? Yeah, I haven't gotten a hunt with it yet. Hopefully this fall. I will. I'll let you know then. Cool.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, that's not what I wanted to do.

[Giannis Patelis]

Well, it's a big bull. Corey. There he is. He got the early morning turkey too. Looks like the sun's not even over. Over the horizon.

[Phil]

Probably sent a roost rocket up there to get him.

[Giannis Patelis]

I heard that one, Brody. That's good.

[Brody Henderson]

That's great.

[Giannis Patelis]

Randall wouldn't kill a bird off the roost.

[Brody Henderson]

Way to go, right?

[Giannis Patelis]

That's a beauty.

[Randall Williams]

Jackson says if any of you used Thermocell for mosquitoes. I've never heard them mentioned on the show. When the topic of mosquitoes is brought up, they work like magic for Jackson.

[Giannis Patelis]

Oh yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Or if you guys have any other mosquito tips, maybe?

[Giannis Patelis]

No, man. Hard, hard to beat thermocell along with deep everything else. But thermostats are great.

[Brody Henderson]

How heavy are they? I've never held one like not heavy. A couple hours worth carrying around on a 10 mile bear hunt.

[Giannis Patelis]

I mean, yeah, if the, if the mosquitoes were really, really bad. Sure. I like that because they're light. They're kind of bulky, but they're light. Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Cool. Need to try one.

[Randall Williams]

I don't know. Have any of you. Is anyone in this room hunted a mountain goat?

[Brody Henderson]

I've helped a couple different buddies harvest some.

[Randall Williams]

Okay. So, yes, Espo says that they drew a once in a lifetime mountain goat, ID tag. Any tips?

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, get them before the snow gets too deep.

[Randall Williams]

That's a good tip.

[Giannis Patelis]

Go learn the unit, man. Learn the country. Yeah, yeah.

[Phil]

Make sure you train if you're not in mountain shape. Train.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. Get in goat shape. Make sure you know the difference between a nanny and a billy. That's tough.

[Giannis Patelis]

Depending. Yeah, he might. Most go tags, though, aren't either sex or other stacks.

[Brody Henderson]

Most of them are. But, yeah, might as well aim for a billy for sure.

[Randall Williams]

Let's see. Does anyone have any good crayfish or crawdad recipes from our guy Leland? He's helping run a crayfish BHA event in Arizona, and he needs recipes to share.

[Phil]

Crawfish etouffee, man, that stuff's great. And then just the old crawfish boil. You got to do that, too.

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah. Specific recipes. I don't know. I would. I would just go to cajun cooking.com for those two.

[Phil]

Any shrimp recipe? It worked, too. Or whatever, you know?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, go. What's that seafood boil that they like to use?

[Phil]

Low country or. Oh, the. Like the brand?

[Giannis Patelis]

Yeah, I don't know. I think it's. The brand is Louisiana, isn't it?

[Phil]

Might be Louisiana. Yeah.

[Giannis Patelis]

You were down there for a bunch of those boils. Don't you remember? I think. I think it's Louisiana brand. Yeah. Just buy, like, go online and order, like, a big box full of. They got jugs of the boil. You just pour in with the water. Yeah. Then you just dump all your ingredients in there. It's easy.

[Randall Williams]

Okay, you know what, guys? We just set the record for the longest episode of Meteor Radio Live.

[Phil]

We did it.

[Giannis Patelis]

We did that last time I was hosting.

[Brody Henderson]

This is a trend.

[Randall Williams]

Let's go ahead and call it there.

[Giannis Patelis]

I hope everybody enjoyed it.

[Randall Williams]

I hope you know that you're completely. You've been slowly moving out of frame, Yanni, and now nobody can see you at all.

[Giannis Patelis]

I hope you all enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun retelling our hunting stories and listening to Brody and Corey's hunting stories. We should tell more hunt stories on this show. If you like hunting stories, make sure to write in and say. And put, you know, attention. Spencer. We love hunting stories.

[Brody Henderson]

I'll read it. Don't worry.

[Randall Williams]

Maybe, maybe we'll just have, we'll have a, a two host show soon. It'll just be you and Spencer and you guys can kind of compete for, you know, meandering, fun, hunting stories without any sort of, you know, like, like fenced in. And then you got Spencer trying to move the show along. I think there's a lot of contention there. I think it could be a really fun show. We'll put a poll up at the end to see which, which format people like the best.

[Giannis Patelis]

I just ran a race called Don't Fence Me in, so.

[Phil]

Oh, nice.

[Giannis Patelis]

Don't Fence Me In, Spencer. Thank you all for listening. We'll see you.

[Corey]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone let's face it in therapy. By talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Phil]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.