Ep. 722: All Hands for Public Lands! (Part Deux: Redux) | MeatEater Radio Live!

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast Episode: Ep. 722: All Hands for Public Lands! (Part Deux: Redux) | MeatEater Radio Live! Release Date: June 27, 2025

Host: Brody Henderson Guests: Seth Morris, Corey Calkins, Phil, Mike Snyder (Vermont Forester)

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Introduction

The June 27th episode of The MeatEater Podcast kicks off with host Brody Henderson welcoming regular co-hosts Seth Morris, Corey Calkins, and Phil. The episode promises insightful discussions on public lands, logging, hunting regulations, and regional fishing reports, culminating in the first-ever MeatEater live fishing tournament between Seth and Corey.

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Interview with Mike Snyder: Logging and Public Lands

[07:07] Brody Henderson: Introduces Mike Snyder, a seasoned forester with 40 years of experience in Vermont. Mike discusses his diverse roles, including serving as the commissioner of Vermont's Department of Forest, Parks, and Recreation, and now running his consultancy, Green Fire Enterprises.

[07:33] Mike Snyder: Elaborates on the complexities of forestry, emphasizing that foresters balance wood production with forest health. "Forestry is a conservation tool that keeps forests, forests," Mike explains, highlighting the nuanced role of logging in sustainable forest management.

[11:59] Brody Henderson: Brings up the recent repeal of the roadless rules in national forests, opening up millions of acres to logging. He seeks Mike's perspective on the environmental and economic implications.

[11:59] Mike Snyder: Addresses the nuanced nature of logging, stressing that it's not inherently destructive but a tool for managing forest health. "Foresters are responsible to the landowner and to the land," Mike states. He advocates for thoughtful logging practices that support habitat, water quality, and domestic wood supply, while also pointing out the need for supporting infrastructure like mills and workforce to make logging beneficial for rural communities.

Notable Quote:

"Public lands managers... propose and vet logging projects. They're more than logging projects, they're forest management projects." – Mike Snyder [09:54]

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Hunting Policy in Vermont: Doe Hunting Expansion

[17:30] Brody Henderson: Shifts the conversation to hunting regulations, specifically Vermont's recent move to expand doe hunting to control overpopulation and promote healthier ecosystems.

[18:37] Corey Calkins: Shares personal reflections from hunting experiences, noting the shift in cultural attitudes towards doe hunting from when he hunted in Pennsylvania as a youth.

[18:58] Mike Snyder: Details Vermont's historical resistance to doe hunting and the recent changes in policy. "Vermont is the only state in the Northeast... that still doesn't allow any antlerless rifle hunting," he explains. The Fish and Wildlife Board has recently voted to permit doe hunting during the rifle season to address increasing deer populations and declining hunter participation.

[21:25] Brody Henderson: Clarifies that the policy change isn't final yet, as it requires further legislative approval.

Notable Quote:

"Foresters have been kind of whining about this for some time locally overabundant leading to significant over browsing, which is not good for forest, but it's certainly not good for deer herds either." – Mike Snyder [22:14]

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Personal Hunting Experiences and Public Lands Importance

[24:22] Mike Snyder: Shares his excitement about participating in a major hunt in Montana's Bob Marshall Wilderness, emphasizing the unique opportunities public lands provide for diverse hunting experiences.

[32:16] Seth Morris: Highlights the importance of public lands for providing first-time hunting opportunities to the next generation. He showcases personal photos of his children achieving their first hunts on public lands, underscoring the significance of preserving these areas for future hunters.

Notable Quote:

"Those firsts are super important and like that kid only knows hunting on public land... those opportunities will be taken away from him and a bunch of other kids." – Seth Morris [37:00]

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Regional Summer Fishing Report

The hosts transition to a regional summer fishing report, sharing insights and updates relevant to anglers:

• Brody Henderson: Describes the current fishing conditions, noting shrinking rivers and more concentrated fish populations. "The smallies have started to run in big groups going after bait balls," he observes.

• Chester Floyd (Guest from Wisconsin): Provides a musky fishing report from northern Wisconsin, discussing inconsistent weather patterns affecting fish behavior. He recommends focusing on main lake points and using specific baits like topwater and jerk baits for success.

Notable Quote:

"If you're looking to catch a big trophy, smally night fishing is super effective on the trout side of things." – Brody Henderson [44:41]

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Live Fishing Tournament: Seth vs. Corey

In a first-of-its-kind segment, Seth Morris and Corey Calkins engage in a live fishing contest using MeatEater's own trout pond. The challenge involves Seth using a spin pole with the "olive woolly bugger" lure and Corey attempting to catch fish with a fly rod using the "panther Martin" fly.

[50:11] Brody Henderson: Announces the commencement of the live contest, setting playful stakes and creating anticipation among listeners.

[52:08] Seth Morris: Returns victorious with one fish caught, while Corey shares his experience of encountering a mountain lion during a previous hunt.

Notable Quote:

"Mine was just the weeds that I had to deal with managing my line." – Seth Morris [52:28]

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Trail Cam Photo Contest

Sponsored by Moultrie, the hosts review and select the top five funniest trail cam photos submitted by listeners. The entries range from playful animal antics to unexpected wildlife encounters.

Winning Photo: A bear caught in an amusing situation, receiving overwhelming votes from the audience.

Prizes: Winners receive Moultrie trail cam gear and other outdoor equipment, further engaging the community in sharing their outdoor experiences.

Notable Quote:

"What a great shot." – Seth Morris [58:38]

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Listener Questions and Crew Stories

The episode concludes with interactive segments where listeners submit questions related to hunting, fishing, and outdoor gear. Topics include trail cam recommendations, handling interactions with game wardens, and the challenges of filming hunters in action.

Examples:

• Matt's Question: "How do you like to answer non-hunters who ask you, did you catch a big one when you get home from hunting season?"

  • Brody Henderson: "I just tell them, like, I'm not going to, like, try and make them feel stupid."

• Spencer's Inquiry: "What camera are you currently using? Do you bring a lot of photography gear when you travel or just one reliable setup?"

  • Corey Calkins: "A7R5. For the main camera backup is an A7R4... It's about it."

Notable Quote:

"Filming someone that's never been filmed before, they just think it's like impossible to kill something with that many," – Corey Calkins [65:15]

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Conclusion

Brody Henderson wraps up the episode by emphasizing the importance of public lands for hunting and fishing, sharing plans for future contests, and encouraging listeners to stay engaged with MeatEater's ongoing efforts to protect and enjoy America's natural resources.

Final Notable Quote:

"Stay tuned again. We're going to try this again next month and maybe the month after." – Brody Henderson [70:58]

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Key Takeaways

• Logging and Conservation: Thoughtful logging practices are essential for maintaining forest health and supporting both environmental and economic needs. Policy changes must be accompanied by support for infrastructure and workforce to ensure sustainable outcomes.

• Hunting Regulations: Expanding doe hunting in Vermont aims to balance deer populations with habitat health, reflecting evolving attitudes within the hunting community.

• Public Lands Significance: Public lands provide invaluable opportunities for hunting, fishing, and introducing the next generation to outdoor traditions. Preserving these areas is crucial for ongoing access and environmental stewardship.

• Community Engagement: Interactive segments like fishing tournaments and photo contests foster a strong community bond and encourage active participation in wildlife conservation and outdoor recreation.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

1. Mike Snyder [09:54]: "Foresters are responsible to the landowner and to the land."

2. Seth Morris [22:14]: "Foresters have been kind of whining... significant over browsing."

3. Seth Morris [37:00]: "Those opportunities will be taken away from him and a bunch of other kids."

4. Brody Henderson [44:41]: "Smally night fishing is super effective on the trout side of things."

5. Seth Morris [52:28]: "Managing my line."

6. Corey Calkins [65:15]: "Filming someone that's never been filmed before..."

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This episode of The MeatEater Podcast offers a comprehensive look into the multifaceted issues surrounding public lands, emphasizing sustainable forestry, evolving hunting practices, and the enduring importance of these lands for outdoor recreation and conservation.

Transcript

[Brody Henderson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Steve Rinella]

You ever drive past a piece of land and wonder who owns that? Or maybe you need to know where exactly a property line runs? Well, that is where ONX Hunt comes in. And it's not just for hunters. There are folks using Onx for their jobs every day throughout the country. If you need the best land ownership maps, aerial imagery and property boundaries in your pocket, ONX Hunt is the tool for the job. Try it free for 7 days. Download onx hunt in the app or Google Play store or visit on xmaps.com hunt to get started. Steve Rinella Here the American west with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time wild animals, native peoples in the west, unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history. And I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores On Apple, Spotify, iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.

[Phil]

Smell us now, lady.

[Steve Rinella]

Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia Meat Eater Podcast.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, we're on. Welcome to the June 26th episode of Mediator Radio Live. It's 11:00 clock here in Bozeman, Montana. It's 8:00 o' clock 8:00pm for Steve, who's currently in Tanzania, Africa. My kids got to mow his lawn tomorrow for him. I'm your host, Brody Henderson and I'm joined by Seth Morris and Corey Calkins. Today we're in a chat with a Vermont forester about logging and shooting. Wait till does. Then we're going to do a little public lands throwback Thursday and we're going to follow that up with some regional fishing reports and a first ever Meat Eater live fishing tournament between Seth and Corey. You guys nervous?

[Seth Morris]

Oh yeah, big time.

[Corey Calkins]

I'm not at all.

[Brody Henderson]

You shouldn't be.

[Corey Calkins]

No, not at all.

[Brody Henderson]

I, I, it's just gonna, this is like, like just trail breaking stuff here. What you guys are gonna do today.

[Corey Calkins]

No one's ever done it.

[Seth Morris]

I'd Be nervous if I was a fish in that pond right now.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep.

[Seth Morris]

They don't know what's coming.

[Brody Henderson]

Unless we're gonna finish everything up with a funny trail cam photo contest, which should be really, really cool to look at. Before we get, get to all that, we're gonna do a little chitchat like we usually do. What do you guys been up to?

[Seth Morris]

Well, I got a quick question. How well does Steve pay your kids for mowing this lawn?

[Brody Henderson]

That was unclear. I asked, asked my kid, like, what did he tell you you were getting? He's like, he didn't say anything. So it might be based, it might be performance based pay. We'll see.

[Seth Morris]

Well, naturally.

[Steve Rinella]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

What? He's gone for a while.

[Brody Henderson]

Then I found out he's got a bag up a bunch of grass because Steve needs to like mulches, potatoes or something.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, that's. I hope he charges extra for that.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Seth Morris]

Dirty work.

[Brody Henderson]

So. Yeah, we got to go over there and do that.

[Corey Calkins]

See, what your, what your boy needs to do is just give him an invoice.

[Brody Henderson]

I know.

[Corey Calkins]

Don't, don't like let Steve set the price, you know?

[Brody Henderson]

That's a good idea.

[Phil]

That's great.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. Seth, you're about to go on a really long plane ride.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, I'm heading to where Steve's at right now. Tanzania. Tomorrow morning.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

It's.

[Corey Calkins]

I don't know how many hours exactly? Like 30, 30 some hours of travel.

[Brody Henderson]

Where's, where are your stopovers?

[Corey Calkins]

Minneapolis, Amsterdam, Kilimanjaro.

[Brody Henderson]

That's not so bad.

[Corey Calkins]

It's like whatever. From here to Minneapolis is what, two and some change? And then it's eight hours, nine hours. And then I think there's some little type of bush plane flight we take into where we're going to be.

[Brody Henderson]

Wow, nice camp. We'll see you at the end of the summer. I'll see you in Alaska.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Gone all summer.

[Seth Morris]

That'll be an adventure, man.

[Corey Calkins]

You guys will have to do some fishing for me.

[Brody Henderson]

We're heading out this week and we're going after some walleye perch this week.

[Corey Calkins]

Just don't send me any photos because I don't. I'll be jealous.

[Seth Morris]

Okay.

[Brody Henderson]

Seth would rather see a picture of a big walleye than like a lion or a giraffe.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, that's true story. I bet.

[Brody Henderson]

Corey been doing anything fun?

[Seth Morris]

Lots of fishing and camping. Trying to get my 7 year old kid into the lifestyle.

[Brody Henderson]

I saw that video of him hauling in a trout not too long ago. That's pretty Cool.

[Seth Morris]

Yep, he's pretty hooked. Now we got him. Echoes Gecko. It's this little kids fly rod. It's got little fighting butt, fiberglass, four weight, super easy for the kids to cast. Highly recommend it if anybody wants to get their kids into fly fishing. It just makes anybody a professional angler. You can. I was shocked that it could land these super heavy, stout, healthy fish on the Missouri.

[Brody Henderson]

Bendy fiberglass rod.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, very easy to find.

[Brody Henderson]

You going to use it today in the tournament? You should.

[Seth Morris]

I should, but no, I got my kids other rod actually. Little seven foot, seven and a half foot, four weight. Cool should do the trick.

[Brody Henderson]

Phil, we got, we got our interviewee ready to go.

[Phil]

He is in the waiting room. Yeah, he's ready to go.

[Brody Henderson]

Let's talk logging and stuff.

[Phil]

Yeah, let's bring him in.

[Mike Snyder]

Okay.

[Brody Henderson]

Today we're joined by a former meat eater podcast guest, Mike Snyder. Mike served 12 years as the commissioner of Vermont's Department of Forest, Parks and Recreation and also as state forester. Today he's the owner of Green Fire Enterprises, which is an operation that consults on forest conservation, forestry and outdoor recreation. And he's also a writer who wrote Woods Wise, an exploration of forest and forestry. So Mike, thanks for joining us, man.

[Mike Snyder]

Happy to be here, guys.

[Brody Henderson]

I like his shirt. Yeah, appropriate shirt figure we had to.

[Mike Snyder]

Wrap today for that. Seth, good to see you again. Last time we chatted we were comparing notes on the old dendrology class.

[Corey Calkins]

Yes, sir. Good to see you again.

[Mike Snyder]

Thank you right off.

[Brody Henderson]

Mike, just in case anyone missed the podcast that you were on, can you give us just a brief rundown of your experience in the field of forestry and then we'll move on to some current event stuff.

[Mike Snyder]

Sure, yeah. I'm a forester. I live here in Vermont. I've been practicing forestry now just 40 years here in a variety of capacities over time. Forest science, forest management, working with private landowners. And then as you mentioned, I was tapped to fill a political role as commissioner of the Department of Forest Parks and Recreation, working closely with the Department of Fish and Wildlife on related matters. And so a couple years ago I stepped down from that and gone back into private practice with my company, Green Fire, as you say, consulting on a variety of forestry, conservation, outdoor recreation related topics. I also spent time teaching at UVM University of Vermont, teaching forestry for decade and a half and have been writing for various magazines over time as well. So it's a mixed bag, but pretty much everything I've ever done has been related to the woods one way or another.

[Brody Henderson]

So like for all those city folks out there, like, what does a forester do? Is it just like looking at a chunk of land and being like, how do we make this healthy? How do we keep this forest healthy? Like just like what, what like say as the state for. Well, you said state forest was political, but like what's, what's an on the ground forester doing?

[Mike Snyder]

Yeah, it's a good question because there is a lot of. It seems over time definitely learned there's misconceptions, there's a lot of ways to be a forester and it. And it. But the sort of boots on the ground as you described, the basic field forester is as you say, it's the folks who kind of take care of the woods, understand, map, inventory, describe and make decisions and choices about how to get what people need from the woods while taking care of the woods. One good analogy I would draw that's very helpful I think is it's rough, but it's reasonable. Particularly where you think about forester is differentiated from logger. So like the. For think of like architect and builder. The forester is more like the architect design the input on the front end and then the logger is more like the builder who actually does the tough work of harvesting trees, you know, getting them out of the woods in a careful way. And so, you know, that's how I would describe it. Foresters just are responsible to the landowner and to the land and kind of agent for land and for landowner trying to hold it all together. And you know, forest health is the root of it, but, but also the practical realities of people needing stuff from the woods. We use an enormous amount of wood products, a wild range of wood products in our daily lives, even if we don't really know it. And foresters, that's the core of what forestry and foresters are all about.

[Brody Henderson]

Cool. Well, since you're a forester and I'm assuming you worked with a lot of logging operations, so like we've established you got some subject matter expertise. I wanted wanted to get your thoughts on the recent repeal of the roadless rules that in national forest that are going to open up tens of millions of acres of national forest to logging. There's definitely like, I believe some legitimate concerns around this surrounding like threats to critical wildlife habitat and threats to the headwaters of river drainages that supply clean water to millions of people. But the logging part, it's not so cut and dry. You know, some folks feel like all logging is going to end up being this, this like ecological disaster and there's others that are like, man, it's national forest. Like every single acre of it should be used and logged. So, you know, we're not so reliant on Canadian lumber and you're creating jobs and like that's legitimate too. So like give us your perspective on this and try to help our listeners understand like when logging is good and when it's bad, like both in practice and in location. Yeah, there's not too much.

[Mike Snyder]

We got a couple hours. Yeah, there's a lot there. Right. And so it's like so many things, particularly in nature or wherever biology or ecology involve people and policy seem to really want black and white, one size fits all kind of policies and approaches and statements. And forests, all biological systems, they just don't do that. And so here where we talk about logging, habitats, management, you know, it's complicated. So I would start there and then say it's nowhere near as simple or black and white as any of us might want to say is when we go to our respective corners and sort of hunker down. Let's, let's start with. I would start with the forests are, are incredible. They're complex, they're diverse, they're dynamic and they don't need us, they're just fine and they're gonna be fine. But the fact is we need them. And we have been involved with forests for forever. There's never been a time in the history of people when people weren't utterly dependent on wood for a variety of things, basic needs. And that continues. There's no reason to think that's ever going to change. So we have this relationship and on the one hand we'd like to say let's set it aside and leave it be. And then there's the more Leopoldian kind of approach of like we're part of this community and that's where forestry comes in. And that's where we have to start thinking with public lands, national forests. The intent is very clear for this multi use mandate and for wood supply. And so then we just further get into like, well, what, where, when, for what reasons and proposals to, generally speaking, whether it's roadless rule or doing away with pesky regulations as it's been called, but just basically an executive order that says let's increase the amount of timber supply, domestic supply, supply. On its face, I'd say there's, that's good, good, there's some good stuff there. Like it's reasonable to up our, you know, production of domestic wood. We have the resource, we have the wood Base, we have the, the technology, we have the expertise to do it really well. And so any given place where there's a proposal on public lands for logging, it's not logging just because somebody doesn't like trees or wants enjoys cutting them down. It's to meet massive demands, societal demands and economic needs. And so you got to look at each one. And I would, I would also just say that the public lands managers, the foresters and biologists and hydrologists, you know, that work on public lands that propose and vet logging projects. They're more than logging projects, they're forest management projects. And logging is a tool to affect various changes in the forest, to tweak forest health, to reduce fuel loads, to enhance habitat, to protect water quality. And the wood that comes off is this wonderful byproduct. But these are the most regulated, the most that scrutinize the quality of silvicultural planning and then implementation, it's the best anywhere, certainly more than on private lands or industrial lands. And so, you know, I would encourage folks to relax a little bit and then look into the details of any given proposal. And then lastly, I would just say this idea that, well, let's just increase domestic supply. That's for me, that would that make. As I said, that makes sense on the surface, but that's not what is wrong with or what plagues rural communities where that depend on harvesting. Like, we've lost mills, we've lost workforce, the loggers, the truckers, we lost the mills, the secondary manufacturing facilities, and we can dump a lot of wood back into the system. But there aren't loggers, there aren't truckers, there aren't mills and processing facilities to process, produce material from those. Then it doesn't do us any good. So that's my big point in all this is we can get all hot and bothered about any given logging project, but it doesn't matter if we don't have the real policy shifts are in workforce and education, rural redevelopment, investment in these facilities that have this conservation effect on the landscape. That's my big point here would be that forestry is a conservation tool that keeps forests, forests. And it's counterintuitive to most people that we can save forest by cutting trees, but we meet our needs with wood being better than all the alternative materials, plastics, steel, concrete. And that's what we got to get over, is that people, survey after survey, show that people really, truly love wood. And people say that wood is the most sustainable material of all. They're right. But then they say that Logging and forestry are the least sustainable. So this is where we gotta, we gotta lean in. People love wood, but they don't like how we get wood, and that's a big problem. Public lands can play a role in supplying wood and helping us realize that it's done well. It's complicated and. Yeah, I guess I'll pause there, just.

[Brody Henderson]

Sure.

[Mike Snyder]

I know I spit out a lot there.

[Brody Henderson]

That's all right.

[Mike Snyder]

There's a ton.

[Brody Henderson]

We had plenty of time there. We had plenty of time. Let's. Let's jump into hunting next, Mike, if we can. Vermont recently expanded doe hunting opportunities in order to address some overpopulation issues, I'm assuming, and state biologists and ecologists kind of agree that keeping deer numbers in check would lead to healthier herds, healthier forests. We've seen a lot of states go this route in the past couple of decades, and the hunting community, like in general, I would say, has embraced killing more white tail does as a management tool. But I heard that some Vermont hunters were very opposed to increasing doe harvest. So we're going to get your thoughts there. Like, when I was a kid in Pennsylvania, a lot of the old timers frowned on killing does because they thought that meant less bucks in the future. I don't know if it was that way for you, Seth.

[Corey Calkins]

Same.

[Brody Henderson]

But again, like, I feel like in the last couple of decades, last decade for sure, I think most whitetail hunters have turned the corner on that. So it's interesting to me that there's still, you know, a widespread stigma against killing does in Vermont. It's.

[Mike Snyder]

Yeah, you nailed it. And this is, it's so Vermont, as of now, we have antlerless, you know, with archery, and there's a lottery system for antlerless tags for muzzleloader, but it's verboten. There's never, you know, you don't shoot those during the rifle season. And that's what has recently looks like it's changing. So. And Vermont is the only state in the Northeast, I think, all the way through Pennsylvania, down in Virginia, that still doesn't allow any antlerless rifle hunting. And so the Fish and Wildlife Board, the Vermont Fish and Wildlife Board, that is charged with setting regulations and developing and enacting those regulations for hunting and fishing and trapping, things like seasons, bag limits, methods of taking, license fees. That's the body that makes these decisions. And they've. Since last time. It's been 40 years since there was any doe season, and that's back in the mid-80s during rifle, and it was highly Contentious. Then there were more deer and more hunters then. And so you're right. Now they have this, these deer density targets for, for various management units around the state. And they're finding that we have fewer hunters and more deer and that's a problem for habitat and for healthy forests. And so they've been suggesting this and it's been. No, no, no, no, no, no. The philosophy, the traditional philosophy is you don't shoot dough. And so a couple weeks ago at its last board meeting, the department proposed about seven changes to the deer management rule. And the board, well, so this, this was the second vote. They, in February they voted. That's the first vote to say okay, this will. Let's go forward with public comment and the process. And that opened up this can of worms and it's very contentious and many of my buddies, hunting pals, they're dead set against it. But they went for it and they came back and then two weeks ago they had a meeting, they had the A vote and it was highly contentious. And it's a 14 member board and this component passed 8, 6. And so with quite a lot of controversy and contention. So that's the second vote that is the most important meaningful vote. It now goes to the legislative committee on administrative rules and then it'll go back to the board for the third vote which is usually kind of pro forma. So.

[Brody Henderson]

So it's not. Is it not a done deal yet?

[Mike Snyder]

Correct, that's what I'm trying to say.

[Brody Henderson]

Okay.

[Mike Snyder]

This is the big step just happened which you know, I spoke with the director of Fish and wildlife yesterday and indicated this generally means it's going forward. But yeah, there are a couple more steps and then it would go into effect if passed fully. And as it is expected to do now, this was the last big hurdle and will be fall of 26 where these go into effect. And there's a re. A number of related rules, but this was the big one. The antlerless permits to be used during the regular 16 day rifle season in November has.

[Brody Henderson]

Has Vermont exper. Like is there deer herd like on a big upward climb like there. There's like is there too many? I mean too many is obviously, you know, it depends on who you're talking to.

[Mike Snyder]

And it's amazing, right? This is a small state. You guys are in Montana. This is a really small state. And yet even here we have wide ranging habitat conditions and populations. So by management unit around the state there are some that have. The biologists even indicate that we foresters have been kind of Whining about this for some time locally overabundant leading to significant over browsing, which is not good for forest, but it's certainly not good for deer herds either. So, yes, in some places, and that's why they want to do this. These deer density unit targets by unit. But this reg would apply to all but the far northern northeastern portion of the state because generally the population trends are going up. Deer effort, hunter effort is down, winter severity is down. The various factors they put into their model, which are all pointing to our increased herd size, decreased hunting, and wanting to get this back in balance with their habitat.

[Brody Henderson]

Right. Well, myself, I hope it goes through. I think people tend to forget about this kind of stuff fairly quickly. And, you know, in 10 years, if, if the doe hunting thing goes through it, it won't be an issue anymore. That's, that's my take on it anyway.

[Mike Snyder]

And I think, you know, they say it's contentious and there's a lot of folks that are not into it. There have been runs made at this over the last, you know, a few decades, and they do surveys and it's been slowly changing where hunters are saying, you know, before it was everybody was against it. Then, then there's some for it and now it's about half. And the board heard from their constituents ultimately, and I think for some of them, it was really hard. But there's still a bunch who say it's really a safety issue. They, you know, Vermont was behind in this regard as well. We don't require hunter orange. And so there's sort of brown is down fear that it's going to be crazy out there come rifle season. And I, as I understand it, that's a big piece of the, the, the concerns against even because, because the culture has shifted, as you suggest to. Well, we get this a little bit more now that maybe we need to shoot some. Does a bit more than just with bow and arrow.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep, Yep. All right. I understand that, that you're going on the hunt of a lifetime this fall out in our area and one of. One of our country's most impressive public land destinations, the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Are you. Are you. What are you going after deer, elk? Are you going. You're doing this on your own? Are you getting a guide?

[Mike Snyder]

Yeah, this. I'm so excited. And you rightly called it a hunt of a lifetime. This is not something I've done. I've done. I've hunted in Montana and in the west elsewhere. But this is a pack string hunt guided, fully, you know, outfitted we're going in the Bob Marshall. Seven days of honey and gear elk. Three good buddies, excellent hunters that I have been. We're more trackers here in the northeast. We don't, you know, sit. Sit on stands and. And so this is just going to be super different. And I have to say, each one of us is completely freaked out at the prospect of being lame for three or four days after being on a horse.

[Brody Henderson]

Right.

[Mike Snyder]

I know which which end. I know which end the food goes in, and I think I'm pretty sure which end the food comes out. That's the end of my horseman ship knowledge.

[Brody Henderson]

Well, I mean, it's the. The Bob is. Is a super cool place. So that alone will make the trip worth it for you.

[Mike Snyder]

I think that's how we see it. It's like, no. No matter what, this is going to be great, right? I mean, just great.

[Brody Henderson]

Watch out for grizzlies you guys have.

[Mike Snyder]

For getting ready for this.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, Corey here used to guide in the Bob, so.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, Mike, I guided in there for a decade. I'm not going to ask where you're going because it's all gnarly and rugged, but, yeah, get ready for the toughest hunt of your life.

[Mike Snyder]

I'm ready. I'm gonna be ready. It's this. This is super motivating. Right. I mean, and then the, you know, talking with the outfitter, just like, I don't know, most of. I don't shoot at 400 yards very often. I don't even know how to train for that. So that's my biggest fear, is sort of being ready for a good shot at distance. Because that's just not something that I have a lot of experience with.

[Seth Morris]

Well, yeah, depending on what end of the wilderness you're in. The area I was in, our average shot was 60 to 80 yards with a rifle.

[Mike Snyder]

That's what I'm talking.

[Seth Morris]

Because we're hunting and during the rut, as you know, so.

[Mike Snyder]

Right.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Mike Snyder]

This is just so exciting. I. I don't know if I dropped that to somebody. I'm really glad you brought it up already. This is like. You can imagine my excitement, right?

[Brody Henderson]

Yep. Well, Mike, thanks for. Thanks for checking in with us and good luck on that hunt.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, good luck, Mike.

[Mike Snyder]

Thanks, guys. Take care.

[Brody Henderson]

Take it easy.

[Steve Rinella]

Hey, everybody, I'm talking here about Montana Knife Company. From our very own state of Montana, this company was founded by one of the most experienced master blade Smiths in the world, Josh Smith, who over recent months, I've become friends with, and my God, have I learned a lot about knives from this guy. Just a phenomenal hometown company that makes world renowned knives. Josh has been making knives for 30 years. You get one of these knives up and open it, it is sharp like something that came from outer space. And here's the deal. They make knives that can be sharpened. You can work on these knives. If you don't want to work on, you send it to them and they'll work on it. They'll get it sharp. Phenomenal hunting knives. If you want to see them in action, we just did. Me and John Hayes, the taxidermist, just did a video about how to properly skin a black bear. Watch that video and in that video, you'll see Montana Knife Co. Knives in action. MKC products usually sell out in minutes of being released, which is true. But now for the first time, they're dabbling with having knives in stock on their site. So right now you can grab yourself a Blackfoot 2.0 or the ultralight speed goat. Use Code Meat Eater and you get 10 off your first order. Montana Knife Company working knives for working people. 10% off with the Code Meat Eater. That's a good deal. Hey, if you're like me, you know the importance of quality gear. And that is why I love Poncho Outdoors, a company right out of Austin, Texas, committed to creating the ultimate outdoor performance shirts for men. I got turned on to Poncho when one of my colleagues, Max, he just kind of knows I don't know. Shirts I like sends me a thing, says, hey, check these out. I went there and started buying Poncho shirts. Then lo and behold, now I get to do ads for Poncho, which is great because I love Poncho. In fact, all my button up snap front shirts are all Poncho shirts. High performance, exceptional quality, innovative design, great website. Poncho's got great denim snap front shirts. And this isn't your average, like cardboard denim. It's super soft, comfortable, lightweight, and it's got some stretch to it. Feels broken in right out of the box, like your favorite vintage piece. And you can get your Poncho shirts in both slim and regular fits. Dude, I love them. You got to check out these shirts. Head over to ponchooutdoors.com and use code Me Eater. Get a free hat or T shirt with any shirt purchase. Plus Poncho offers free shipping and returns, so you can try them out risk free. That's poncho outdoors.com code meat eater. Steve Rinella here. The American west with Dan Flores is a New podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time wild animals, native peoples in the west, unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west. And he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history. And I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, Iheart, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.

[Brody Henderson]

Man, unless you've been living under a rock in, like, Senator Mike Lee's backyard, you probably know what's going on with his attempts to sell off our public lands. It's like ever changing. There's been like three different. Different versions of it this week, but it's still. He's still going after that stuff. But just in case you're not aware of what's going on, like, hop on our website, read the article, follow Cal on Instagram, and he'll keep you up to date. But it just to show people, like, how important this stuff is and what's at stake, me and the boys here are gonna remind you about it and share some of our favorite public land. Hunting. Did you guys do fish? Any fishing or just hunting?

[Corey Calkins]

I just did hunting.

[Brody Henderson]

Slash.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

Mine's neither.

[Brody Henderson]

Yours is. Through a little twist in there. Through a little twist. A little. Little hiking, biking kind of stuff.

[Seth Morris]

Hiking. Yep. Not a biker.

[Brody Henderson]

Gotcha. Anyway, we're gonna share some pictures and tell a little story and kind of let you know why public lands are important to us. Corey, since you. Since you're not a hunter anymore, why don't you start off?

[Seth Morris]

Well, I'm gonna throw this all the way back to last.

[Brody Henderson]

Did I screw you up there, Phil, by having Corey go first?

[Seth Morris]

Probably.

[Phil]

Oh, no, it's fine. I can. I can change things on the fly. It's good.

[Brody Henderson]

All right.

[Seth Morris]

Feels like a chameleon. He can adapt. Anyway, I'm gonna throw this all the way back to last week. Last Wednesday.

[Brody Henderson]

Long time ago. Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

A few colleagues and myself teamed up with the Station foundation, which is a amazing organization made up of special operations, vets, and other highly Trained professionals that help transition our nation's special ops forces and their families get back to normal civilian life, which includes a multi day retreat here in Montana which includes one day of hiking this 10,000 foot peak just south of Bozeman. So three of us from Meat eater.

[Brody Henderson]

Here, is that within the five mile corridor or whatever border thing that Mike Lee's like? Oh, not quite, not quite, but a little further. It's close to town.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, yeah. And from the top, I mean you can see one of a, one of our busier towns in this city or excuse me, in the state of Montana, not Bozeman, but.

[Brody Henderson]

Right.

[Seth Morris]

Anyway, it was a really amazing experience. There was 30 of us that summited this peak. Kids ranging from 8 to 15, I think. And then a bunch of their dads and some of the other volunteers for the station foundation climbed this 10,000 foot peak. Hats off to all those kids who made it up there. My 7 year old kid wouldn't have made it halfway up there. And there are these eight year old kids who just kicked its ass last Wednesday. Beautiful day. Couldn't have had better weather. There's a view. All that that you can see right there in that photo is public land. So keep your hands off of it. Damn it.

[Brody Henderson]

Nice. Seth, what do you got for us?

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, I got a photo of a mountain lion. This is the first mountain lion I've ever encountered in my life. Have seen multiple since then. But this was 2017, I believe was hunting. This was during archer season, September in Montana here, hunting some public land national forest. And weren't hearing many bugles that day. So we're kind of just still hunting through some timber and kind of out of nowhere a few cows and a couple calf elk kind of filtered past us. So we kind of hunkered down thinking, you know, there might be a bull behind them or whatnot. And we're.

[Brody Henderson]

This is all pretty new experience for you?

[Corey Calkins]

Oh yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Coming from back east, right?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. This was my first archery season.

[Brody Henderson]

Like all this public land and just go.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah. I moved in 2016, but this was the first time I had like my resident license for archery season. And so these, these elk kind of moved past us and we hunkered down just to see what was going to happen next. And I kind of look over and I see something brown like moving kind of on the same trail where these elk could just come by. It's probably, I don't know, maybe a minute later. And sure it was this mountain lion and it was like hunting those elk, which was cool and this photo here was taken through a pair of binoculars with a cell phone.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, cool.

[Brody Henderson]

Turned out pretty.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, it turned out pretty good. And so this thing, it came, it came to about 50 yards of us and once it like noticed we were there, it like did the like the cat just like hunker, like it just sunk to the ground, like put its belly on the ground and just sat there for a couple minutes just staring at us and like we weren't moving. So I don't think it really knew what we were at first. And then finally it just like got up and, and ran off. But yeah, it was, that's one. It was so cool. Yeah, it was awesome experience.

[Brody Henderson]

Sweet.

[Corey Calkins]

All on public land.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep.

[Seth Morris]

Nice shot.

[Brody Henderson]

I guess that leaves me. This year is going to be, it'll be 20 years I've been out west hunting and man, I don't know like I, I like, let's say I've. In 20 years I've killed, I don't know, let's say like 50 big game animals or something like that. I think only four or maybe five of those animals were killed on private land. I've got nothing against hunting on private land. It's how I grew up. But when I came out to the west and was like, I have all this stuff to hunt. And 20 years later here I am. These pictures are my older boy, his firsts that he's had on all on public land in the last few years. So like this is his first ever deer, mule deer, buck that he got on public land. I don't know what Phil has, has teed up next. This was his first elk last year on public land. Antelope. That's his first antelope with his little bro there with him. And then I think the last photos, me and him, he, we, we doubled on turkeys last year. The reason I picked these photos is because like those firsts are super important and like that kid only knows hunting on public land. Like we don't have a bunch of friends with big private ranches and access to a bunch of private land. Like this is how this kid hunts and if that stuff gets taken away, that that's getting taken away from him. I'm not so worried about myself, you know, but like those opportunities will be taken away from him and a bunch of other kids and first time hunters and you know, on top of that all the other people that, that recreate on public land. So that those are the pictures that I chose and that's why I chose them.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, good point.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yep. It's not worth it.

[Brody Henderson]

Nope, nope. What's. What's the chat have to say about all that, Phil?

[Phil]

A lot of people yelling about protecting public land, calling your senator a bunch of. A bunch of a handful of Canadians who are, who are worried for us.

[Brody Henderson]

Is Brett Reeves, Brent Reeves still lurking in there? Not working.

[Phil]

He hasn't said anything for a while, so I think he's probably, I don't know, with a knife or recording a podcast. But let's see here. We've got to get your questions in. This has been question light, a question light episode. But if you have any questions for the crew, let me know. But Colton asks Seth, what's the plan for Yalls time in Tanzania where I.

[Corey Calkins]

Know Steve's buffalo hunting, so spend a big chunk of time doing that. And then I think he wants to kill a warthog too. Other than that, I don't know. I think we're just gonna be hiking around the bush a bunch.

[Phil]

And you guys are there for a long time, right? Yeah, we're almost three weeks.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yeah, it's quite a chunk of time. So. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if he, if he gets those things early, we're gonna go after other things.

[Brody Henderson]

I got a question for you.

[Corey Calkins]

What's that?

[Brody Henderson]

If one of those water buffalo charges Steve and you're right over his shoulder with that camera, what are you gonna do?

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, I'm gonna drop the camera again.

[Brody Henderson]

That's what I was wondering. That's what I was getting at.

[Phil]

I will also say too that we are going to have a handful of bonus podcast episodes coming out around the Africa.

[Brody Henderson]

Not water buffalo. Cape Buffalo.

[Corey Calkins]

Cape Buffalo.

[Phil]

So they're going to be kind of sort of diaries from the field with Steve and various members of the crew that are going to be on the trip, Seth included, dirt myth as well. So look forward to those ones. And then we're going to have a big old normal podcast episode at the end of the trip and then I'm sure you guys can look forward to some video content down the road. But that stuff takes few months to put together.

[Corey Calkins]

But this is all for season 13 of Media. So yeah, I'm going to stick to stick close to whoever has that double barrel rifle.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, that's a smart plan.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Noah asks Brody, what was your favorite thing to do outdoors wise in pa?

[Brody Henderson]

Well, I mean I can never answer these questions like I hunting and fishing. I did more fishing just because I was younger when I was there, but I did a lot of hunting too.

[Phil]

This Guy's asked this question before, and I don't remember if you guys were in the room when he asked it, but he wants to. He wants an answer from everyone on the crew, and I'll give him that opportunity. But he says, what animal do you shamelessly wish was a game animal but is not and will never be?

[Corey Calkins]

Whales.

[Phil]

That's a good answer.

[Brody Henderson]

Well, they're game animals for some people, I guess. I. That is not something I've ever even like, considered.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, it's a tough one. Is. Can tourists. That's pretty. I'm shamelessly saying that, but it's tourist season here in Montana, but I can't seem to find a tag, so.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

What else would be good? Trying to think.

[Brody Henderson]

Wild horses.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, wild horses.

[Brody Henderson]

That's mine.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, that'd be good. Got some here in Montana.

[Phil]

To the dads. This is from Alaska High Boy. Any books for kids. And I mean, I think it goes without saying some of the ones that Brody wrote that I'm sure he'll mention.

[Brody Henderson]

But yeah, those are pretty good.

[Phil]

Those are solid. He says he's got an almost one year old and he's tired of all the cutesy, far from accurate wildlife books.

[Brody Henderson]

That's a tough one for me, man. Like, I like that. It's so little. Like, I don't even like. We just read our one year old all sorts of stuff. I don't know that there's like outdoor specific books that we were reading to our kids at that age.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, same. I know there's some out there, but we didn't read. Now he's too old for those little kids books.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Question for Corey from figuring it outdoors. Good solid name there. This guy, he got too excited and didn't even finish his question. But he says spring bear scope, magnification, SFP or ffp and best all around cartridge. And. And then he stops. But I think you can answer some of those if you would like to.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, yeah, I like the second focal plane. 4 to 15 is plenty. If you're shooting anywhere over 300 yards, you might want to zoom in a little bit more than 12 power, but you certainly don't need it. Depending on where you're hunting too. If you're shooting close quarters, you might not even need a scope. And then best all around cartridge is the.300 Winchester Magnum. Period.

[Brody Henderson]

Gotcha.

[Corey Calkins]

There you go. Corey has spoken.

[Phil]

Let's see here. Just kind of. These are. These are coming in hot, hot and heavy. Trying to. Trying to pick them out. Dan, the Outdoorman question for the Crew, Any unwanted interactions with the environmental police while hunting or fishing? Any complicated laws gotten you in trouble before?

[Brody Henderson]

Nope. All my interactions with game wardens have been very pleasant because I haven't had any reason to be in trouble.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, same as a fishing guide. We'd get pulled over all the time, making sure we. I was licensed and my anglers were. Had their fishing licenses and we had enough life jackets in the boat, but it was always a pleasant.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah. I never had any bad. There's one time we had a weird interaction with a park ranger in a spot where we were hunting.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, I remember close to a park.

[Corey Calkins]

And he seemed like the guy just didn't like hunters.

[Phil]

Right.

[Seth Morris]

I was with you on that one.

[Brody Henderson]

But that wasn't like. That wasn't a game.

[Corey Calkins]

No, it wasn't a game, Ward. It was just a. Yeah. Weird interaction with.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Authority.

[Phil]

We'll do one more Africa question, then we can. We can move it along. Max says question for Seth. Will you get any opportunities to hunt in Tanzania?

[Corey Calkins]

I don't think so.

[Phil]

Yeah, no, it's usually the Steve show down there, isn't.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil]

Shoot with you.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, it's too. Too expensive, I think.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Get critters over there.

[Phil]

Cool.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, we'll check back in with those guys towards the end of the show. Our next segment is. Is new. We're going to do kind of a regional summer fishing report.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Phil]

So we've got a handful. We got a couple remote check ins for. From some. Some crew members. Let's take a look.

[Brody Henderson]

Phil, it says pause for sound here. Do you got a song or not?

[Phil]

No, I don't have a sound. I don't know.

[Brody Henderson]

Come on.

[Seth Morris]

That was somebody.

[Corey Calkins]

Make one up right now, Phil.

[Seth Morris]

That was somebody casting a line and hoping something would bite.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, we'll come up with a song for that one.

[Seth Morris]

And me going fishing in the dark.

[Brody Henderson]

There you go.

[Phil]

We didn't play this one. I'll just play this one.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, we didn't. I didn't give you time to play it earlier. All right, we're live.

[Corey Calkins]

So we.

[Brody Henderson]

We're going to start out.

[Phil]

I'm sorry, Brody.

[Brody Henderson]

Can'T even introduce these.

[G]

But as it's been getting hotter, the rivers, they've been shrinking down, obviously, and the fish have been getting more concentrated. I've noticed that the smallies, they've started to run in big groups going after bait balls, so minnows, any sort of streamer, those have been working well. Crawdads also this time of year. If you're Looking to catch a big trophy. Smally night fishing is super effective on the trout side of things. The sulfur hatch is in full swing. I've been hearing from some of my guide buddies that they are going more after the dry flies and the emergers. And then this time of year you will find the long ears sunfish are in full bloom. They are as vibrant as ever. Looking like something straight out of the Amazon rainforest. So get out there, go get them. Good luck to everyone this week who's going out there to fish. Stay safe and hey, keep it public.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, buddy.

[Corey Calkins]

God, he sounds like Clay.

[Brody Henderson]

He's way better angler than Clay. Yeah, that's true.

[Seth Morris]

Well, that sounds pretty good.

[Phil]

I'll let you tee this one up. Brody, I apologize.

[Brody Henderson]

We're bringing in. Thank you. Because I came up with a good one.

[Phil]

Okay.

[Brody Henderson]

We're bringing in Chester the walleye molester from Wisconsin to let us know what's going on out there.

[H]

Hello everybody. Chester Floyd coming at you from northern Wisconsin. Here's your northern Wisconsin musky fishing report. With the weather being so inconsistent in northern Wisconsin, the fish have kind of been inconsistent too. But big fish are being caught. Once you find them one day they could be gone and move the next day. So the key is to move around a bunch till you find those fish. I'm going to focus on main lake points, kind of main lake humps. If I can find weeds on those, all the better. Some baits that have been working have been topped. Water baits, jerk baits like a squirrely tailed hellhound here. Soon enough the rubber bite and the bucktail bite should, should pick up with what with the weather, you know, leveling out and being more consistent. I haven't been out a lot recently, so I got this information from my buddy gus manty with suggsfishing.com he's a guide up here. But I hope you guys can can get out on the water and hopefully this information helps you catch a big old muskie. See ya.

[Brody Henderson]

Very professional report. Thanks.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, thanks boys.

[Corey Calkins]

Wow, he's in his new fancy lawn. I'm jealous of that boat.

[Brody Henderson]

Seth, I know you don't got a report because you're all mad that you haven't been fishing.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, I have been fishing.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

It's not worth the report. So.

[Brody Henderson]

Gotcha.

[Seth Morris]

So it's been tough.

[Corey Calkins]

It's been tough for me. Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

Corey, man, I've been fly angling on some of our local waters around here and it's been amazing. Really good runoffs over with a little early this year. Water temps are just right for now. Getting it. River temps just right. Me, I wish it was end of July, not the end of June.

[Brody Henderson]

Right.

[Seth Morris]

Water temps. But I'm talking like, right now is the time because in three weeks, there might not be a lot of angling to be done.

[Brody Henderson]

We've already got some houdow restrictions going on.

[Seth Morris]

But it's good.

[Brody Henderson]

Shutting stuff down.

[Seth Morris]

It's really good right now.

[Brody Henderson]

I've been out a little bit. Planning on heading out this weekend to one of our favorite lakes for perch and walleye. Here. It's picking up. So I'll have a report for you later after that.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, we'll have to do this again.

[Corey Calkins]

I would. I do kind of have a report.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, let's hear.

[Corey Calkins]

I guess you call it that. I. I've been keeping track of what's going on with the local Montana walleye circuit.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And holy crap, some big numbers this year.

[Brody Henderson]

I saw the numbers from Tyber. Holy cow.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Really big numbers.

[Brody Henderson]

140 pound bag.

[Corey Calkins]

143 pounds for the. The winning bag.

[Brody Henderson]

So that's 10 fish. Yeah, 10 fish.

[Seth Morris]

Whoa. That's dang. That's.

[Corey Calkins]

Do the math in your head there.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Figure out a lot.

[Seth Morris]

Cool.

[Brody Henderson]

That's good to hear.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Sounds like the walleye fishing. Other than where I've been, fishing's been good.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep. Yeah. All right. We're gonna stick with the fishing theme for this next section. We're not doing one minute fishing because it never seems to work out. I'm really over it. We're gonna do something different. Yeah, we're. This is going to be really exciting for everyone. First of its kind of live fishing contest between Seth and Corey. We've. We've got our own trout pond right out here behind Meat eater hq.

[Seth Morris]

That's what it is.

[Brody Henderson]

Seth's gonna be out there with his spin pole, and Corey, it's gonna take his fly rod. But I am picking. I'm picking their lure slash fly for them.

[Seth Morris]

I'm nervous about that.

[Corey Calkins]

Me too.

[Brody Henderson]

You shouldn't be. I didn't get. I. I thought about being mean, but I'm not gonna be mean. Okay. So I actually, I'm gonna give you a choice.

[Seth Morris]

Ooh, I like options.

[Brody Henderson]

Corey, if you can't catch fish with one of these two things, like, I'm gonna be really embarrassed.

[Corey Calkins]

I can tell Corey's happy already.

[Brody Henderson]

Olive or black woolly bugger.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

And then Seth, a little panther Martin or a little cast master. Both of which are.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, now.

[Brody Henderson]

Pretty good choices. What do you mean.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, I like that. I mean, we did a little pre fish yesterday, and I'm a little worried.

[Seth Morris]

I need the heavier one. I didn't bring.

[Brody Henderson]

That's what you get.

[Seth Morris]

I know.

[Steve Rinella]

I get it.

[Seth Morris]

I was ready for whatever. They're pretty aggressive out there. Mostly brook trout that we can find. I know there's. Well, somebody caught a cutthroat in there at one point, right?

[Corey Calkins]

I caught a sucker in there one time.

[Brody Henderson]

Okay.

[Seth Morris]

You don't know. Okay, so.

[Brody Henderson]

So choose your weapon, man.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. Okay.

[Corey Calkins]

With the panther, Martin.

[Seth Morris]

I'm going with the olive woolly bugger.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, run out there and catch some fish.

[Phil]

Here we go.

[Seth Morris]

Timer goes.

[Corey Calkins]

Is this, like, first fish?

[Brody Henderson]

I guess I just gotta sit here while they're out fishing.

[Phil]

Hello, audio listeners. Phil butting in to let you know that I am cutting this entire segment out of the podcast version that you are currently listening to because frankly, it wasn't very exciting for audio only listeners. We didn't get a lot of banter from Seth and Corey out there at the pond. So let's just cut right back to the moment where they come back in the studio and Seth wins the competition with one fish. Boys, welcome back.

[Corey Calkins]

How'd that look, Phil?

[Phil]

Terrible.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, no.

[Phil]

So you're gonna have to tell us about it.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, give us a rundown.

[Corey Calkins]

When I was releasing that fish, I don't know if you could hear it, but there's a lady behind me saying, really? Release it nicely.

[Seth Morris]

Gently, gently.

[Corey Calkins]

What did. We did not hear that.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, yeah. We had some spectators. There were some lawnmowers.

[Brody Henderson]

What was your challenge out there? Your biggest challenge, Corey?

[Seth Morris]

Mine was just the weeds that I had to deal with managing my line.

[Brody Henderson]

Which you should have waited right in there.

[Seth Morris]

I thought about it. Not really. Yesterday we went and tested the water just to make sure there was actually fish in it.

[Brody Henderson]

I saw that, like, you're doing a little pre fish and beating them up out there. You could have caught those fish today.

[Seth Morris]

That could have been what happened.

[Brody Henderson]

I think I caught four.

[Seth Morris]

Four yesterday.

[Brody Henderson]

There you go.

[Seth Morris]

Pretty quickly. Or it was your all of the selection fly. Maybe I should have went with the black one, but either way. Nice work, Seth.

[Corey Calkins]

I, I Thanks. I wasn't catching anything until I sent one all the way up into where? That, that creek?

[Brody Henderson]

Yep, yep.

[Corey Calkins]

And then I could see him. He missed it a few times. I could see it flashing.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, cool.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. And then it got cool.

[Seth Morris]

What a rush.

[Brody Henderson]

Bit of an upset, I'd say, Seth, nice work.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, I was kind of nervous because yesterday Corey was crushing him on the, on the. The fly.

[Brody Henderson]

Can't be sure, but my guess is is there's probably like 10 or 12 fish in that entire.

[Seth Morris]

That's a good guess. That might be over overkill, actually. Yeah, half a dozen.

[Corey Calkins]

I keep saying I'm gonna, during the winter I'm gonna drill a hole and put the, the live scope down in there and just see what's going on, but I just, it's just hard to motivate me to do that for a couple brookies.

[Seth Morris]

For sure. Yeah, that was cool.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, well, that. Good job, boys. Oh, thanks.

[Steve Rinella]

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[Brody Henderson]

We're going to move on to our trail cam photo contest. Oh, man, here we go. It's going to be big. It's brought to us by our friends at Moultrie. And for the first round, we ask you guys to send us your funniest photos. We got hundreds of submissions, so choosing the top five was difficult. We saw shots. Multiple folks taking a dump in the woods. That's. That's like, not. I don't know. I don't find that funny. Deer, raccoon, squirrel, bear fornication. That's funny. Topless female hiker. Not funny, but, you know, whatever. Anyway, Corey, you looked through all these, didn't you?

[Seth Morris]

I looked through all of them last night with a tall glass of whiskey. So thanks to everybody for putting all these in. I'd say there were like 350 submissions.

[Corey Calkins]

Are you damaged from it or you doing all right?

[Seth Morris]

I mean, were there any that just.

[Brody Henderson]

Made you laugh out loud? Yeah, there were like, are we gonna see them?

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, the couple that made me laugh out loud made it in here. There was a lot that should have made it in here, but it was tough to select five. Um, yeah, again, thanks to everybody for submitting. We're going to do this again next month, maybe with a different theme, so stay tuned.

[Brody Henderson]

But, so let, let, like, I'll tell people what. Let's like, announce what they're getting after we look at the picture.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, that's a good idea.

[Brody Henderson]

Build up the excitement.

[Phil]

All right, are we ready to see photo number one here?

[Seth Morris]

Photo number one. Now the chat. If you guys can give us your thoughts on the. Your funniest picture.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, you guys are going to decide the winner. We're not deciding the winner. So, like, Phil's going to do some quick math as you guys vote for this.

[Phil]

I'm going to try to start a poll. I think I can add 5.5options on the poll that I might be limited to.

[Brody Henderson]

This one is. We can say these people's names, right?

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Branson, McAtee. He's calling this the ninja squirrel.

[Seth Morris]

I mean, look at that capture.

[Corey Calkins]

I wonder what, is he trying to land on the turkey's back or what? I wonder what's going on.

[Seth Morris]

It looks like he's going full American Ninja warrior on this turkey.

[Brody Henderson]

That is too concerned about.

[Corey Calkins]

I wish that was a video.

[Seth Morris]

I know. That would be amazing.

[Brody Henderson]

We can do that.

[Seth Morris]

What happened after. But I cracked up to this one. I mean, what a great shot.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

What a capture.

[Corey Calkins]

Just squirrel. You know, squirrels just do weird stuff when you're.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep.

[Corey Calkins]

They're funny when you're sitting in a tree stand. Back east, you just watch squirrels do weird stuff, which is cool.

[Seth Morris]

Okay. Ninja squirrel.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, number two. This is from level 19. Late Night Taco Bell.

[Seth Morris]

It's really hard to tell.

[Brody Henderson]

Come on. Is this real? I was worried.

[Seth Morris]

We had some AI generated photos, but it's so. It's hard to say what's happening here.

[Phil]

But that's just sitting here.

[Corey Calkins]

It's like a bug. That's.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Close to the camera. It just. Just happened to be a right. Right spot, right time.

[Brody Henderson]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'd like to think that's what it is. Seth. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm going to not be a Debbie Downer and say this was. This was like.

[Seth Morris]

This one had the second most likes on the website.

[Corey Calkins]

It looks like. Is that a palmetto right there?

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. Somewhere south.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

Good call.

[Phil]

All right, number three.

[Brody Henderson]

Number three. We coming from Michael Harmon. Tree Kid Menace.

[Phil]

I think he's doing the shocker.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, he might be.

[Phil]

I can't tell.

[Brody Henderson]

I feel like this kid is just driving by a camera. He just nose is there that his dad has out. Has out. And he's just like, trespassing.

[Seth Morris]

So, yeah, we had a lot of, you know, wild game images, but some really great, like, home security photos that were hilarious. And this one just seemed like it was obviously set up maybe for turkeys or deer. And this kid who's supposed to.

[Brody Henderson]

Well, it's like in a neighborhood. There's like houses and stuff back there.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. And I remember the guy mentioning that this kid is supposed to be on the street. And he keeps kind of like taking a shortcut.

[Brody Henderson]

And then he found that camera. He's Just brutalizing that guy now.

[Seth Morris]

I couldn't help.

[Brody Henderson]

Maybe it's more funny now.

[Phil]

All right, here's number four.

[Brody Henderson]

This is the one. Brian Kalb Yoda.

[Phil]

This is the one that I do not think is a trail cam.

[Seth Morris]

Okay, so Brian said. And Brody, you've met Brian before. He made sure to mention this. Yep. I'll forward you the email. But he was doing a Purdue University project where they were learning how to scientifically survey wildlife populations using trail cameras. And this trail camera was a 35 millimeter film camera that they were using.

[Brody Henderson]

But a buddy set up as an like. Yeah, yeah.

[Seth Morris]

But a buddy of his played a joke and put on the Yoda mask and obviously captured something other than what they were going for here. But I.

[Corey Calkins]

That's creepy.

[Seth Morris]

I thought it was funny. It was that. Phil, that one was for you.

[Phil]

Oh, I appreciate it. Thanks for the shout out. I like to feel included.

[Corey Calkins]

You know, someone was having fun with that one.

[Brody Henderson]

All right, number five. Like, how can this not be funny? Yeah, like a bear shitting in the woods is just fun.

[Seth Morris]

If you zoom in close to. You can really. I think you can. I wish.

[Phil]

I wish I had a zoomed in one. I.

[Brody Henderson]

People'S vote. But this one gets my vote.

[Phil]

I like it. Not because he's shitting, but his facial expression looking into the camera.

[Brody Henderson]

And he's like up on. I feel like he's working pretty hard because he's up on hind legs, man. Like, he's really getting after.

[Seth Morris]

I was impressed by that, too.

[Phil]

Okay, so here are the limitations of the poll. I can only give four options. So I think as a room, we eliminate our least favorite Yoda.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, I'm sorry, Brian. I understand we met, but that picture is. I don't like it.

[Phil]

All right, so I am. We are eliminating Yoda. I'm going to start the poll here in a few seconds.

[Seth Morris]

So 1, 2.

[Phil]

Here we go.

[Seth Morris]

3 or 5.

[Phil]

1, 2, 3 or 5. Poll is going live right now. Please vote in the live chat and we will.

[Brody Henderson]

Do we want to mess around with. Can we do a little feedback while.

[Phil]

Of course.

[Brody Henderson]

Yes, please do. People are voting. That'll give us something to do.

[Phil]

Let's see. We got a question from Mogor.

[Corey Calkins]

Hey, Mogor says hi, Seth.

[Phil]

What camera are you currently using? Do you bring a lot of photography gear when you travel or just one reliable Setup? Thank you.

[Corey Calkins]

A7R5. For the main camera backup is an A7R4. I got a 70 to 200 lens, 24 to 70, and a 16 to 35. Yeah. That's my setup. Bunch of batteries, some filters. Yeah. It's about it. Not super complicated, but sounds complicated to me.

[Seth Morris]

Well, you're a professional.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Spencer, not our Spencer in the chat, has an idea. He says we should do an outdoor obstacle course. Catch a fish, catch a loose chicken in a fishing net, then pluck a duck.

[Brody Henderson]

First we got to catch a fish. So, like, the other stuff be. It'd be great to do the other stuff first.

[Phil]

We never get there. Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

This was an idea last winter, actually. We were gonna like, include ice skating, drilling holes in the ice, and then like, first one to drop their line in the ice. Ice. But it would have been too much. We would have needed more than a couple minutes.

[Phil]

Question from Matt. He says, how do you like to answer non hunters who ask you, did you catch a big one when you get home from hunting season?

[Brody Henderson]

I don't. I just like. I just tell them, like, I'm not going to, like, try and make them feel stupid, you know?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. I would just say we kill them, not catch them. Unless you're like lion hunting or something.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Captain Texas says Seth. What is the most challenging part about filming other people hunting?

[Corey Calkins]

I would say just trying not to be the guy that ever spooks the animal, you know?

[Brody Henderson]

Yep.

[Corey Calkins]

Which you. Over time, you learn. You just. I typically. I don't move unless Steve's. Steve moves. So there's never like a, you know, he can't turn around and be like, you spooked it. I'd be like, well, I was doing the same thing you were doing.

[Brody Henderson]

So do you notice a difference between. Because, like, Steve's very aware. You know, I used to work on the camera crew.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

Way back. And like, Steve's very aware of the camera guys and how the whole thing works. And like, there's got to be like, you've got to have expectations for the hunters too. Right. Do you notice, like, a way big difference between, like, filming Steve and filming a guest hunter who's never been filmed before? Like, as far as challenges they present.

[Corey Calkins]

To you, I mean, yes and no. The filming someone that's never been filmed before, like, they. They just think. I feel like most people just think it's like impossible to kill something with that many.

[Brody Henderson]

Right.

[Corey Calkins]

And you'll give. Guys are like, you know, don't move, don't. And it's like.

[Brody Henderson]

And you already know.

[Corey Calkins]

It's like, we. Yeah, we know what we're doing.

[Brody Henderson]

Yep.

[Corey Calkins]

So that's kind of like one thing with. With new people.

[Phil]

But.

[Corey Calkins]

And Steve's like, It depends on the animal, too. But he's like. I think he. We always use guys that have been with us forever and know the game and know how to be quiet. And so he's. He typically doesn't like, yell at us or anything.

[Brody Henderson]

Not anymore.

[Corey Calkins]

Sometimes he does, but yeah, yeah, it all depends.

[Phil]

Mark says, guys, I want to send a mule deer hide off to get processed hair on. It's currently wrapped and in the freezer. How long is that going to be good for before I need to ship it off?

[Brody Henderson]

As long as it's frozen.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. For a long time. Forever.

[Phil]

Cool. We'll do one more and then we'll see how the poll is going. Max, not our. Max says, how'd y' all get started with meat eater? Was there an application interview process or. We all picked because of your individual skills? I think we each have, like, a different path to how we got here.

[Brody Henderson]

I'll start. Since I'm the oldest, I used to guide with Giannis in Colorado. Giannis moved to Alaska through a mutual friend, got hooked up with Steve and became a production assistant. A few years later, they needed help on the Stars in the sky shoot. Giannis approached me. That's how I got my start. And one thing led to another and I started writing with Steve. That was 10 years ago.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, mine was semi similar. Good friend of mine and also one of our colleagues presented the job offer to me. It was during COVID when I was guiding fishermen and hunters, when I wasn't quite sure if that industry was going to last a whole lot longer. Just we weren't letting out of staters in the state, so things were really weird. So I tried to get a different job, I guess, more steady job and yeah, that was five years ago now.

[Corey Calkins]

Nice. Yeah, mine was Meteor was just looking for production assistant to help out on shoots and haul gear and make.

[Brody Henderson]

How you find out about it, though?

[Corey Calkins]

A mutual friend.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Recommended a mutual friend that knew Giannis and Steve and whatnot. Recommended me to them and yep. Yeah, just kind of got on a phone call with Giannis and rest was history. That was 2018. Washington Elk Hunt was the my first shoot ever, Phil.

[Phil]

Oh, I got burnt out working in TV and applied via Indeed.com Nice. Yeah. And yeah, had audio experience and I was worried they wouldn't want me because I didn't hunt and Giannis. My first interview was with Giannis. He said, that does not matter. I said, thank God. And that was six years ago now. So.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah, there we go.

[Phil]

All right, let's see who had the Best trail cam photo. In last place with 6% of the vote, we have number three, biker kid.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, well, yeah.

[Phil]

Get rid of this.

[Seth Morris]

But how can you not look at him?

[Corey Calkins]

He probably needs slapped.

[Seth Morris]

Is that an E bike?

[Phil]

Oh, it might be. It's hard to tell.

[Seth Morris]

Like a little motorcycle.

[Phil]

Yeah, possibly.

[Corey Calkins]

E bike.

[Seth Morris]

Cheater.

[Phil]

All right, and then in third place with 12% of the vote, we have Deer Fart.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, see, I.

[Brody Henderson]

You had high hopes for that.

[Seth Morris]

I love deer fart.

[Corey Calkins]

I agree with that.

[Seth Morris]

Hard to say what's going on in that photo, but, yeah, nobody else cared.

[Phil]

And we only have two left. Now it's between ninja squirrel and bear shitting. And I will announce the first place winner. The first place winner with 68 of the vote. It was a landslide. We've got Bear.

[Corey Calkins]

There we go.

[Phil]

Congratulations.

[Corey Calkins]

In the woods.

[Mike Snyder]

Great.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brody Henderson]

All right. So who was that? That was number five at a Pain.

[Phil]

A Pain.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. We'll reach out to you for this. So massive collection.

[Brody Henderson]

Yeah. The winner at a Pain. You're going to receive a. What's. Is it tw O or two?

[Seth Morris]

Two. Two of these.

[Brody Henderson]

It looks like it's part of the. Okay. It's like, written weird. Two of the Moultrie edge. Two cameras. So two of those suckers. Two 10 watt solar pad. Or is that 10 watt?

[Seth Morris]

10 watt solar power pack.

[Brody Henderson]

Power pack.

[Phil]

Nice.

[Brody Henderson]

An MKC knife. The saw two slicer. You want to show them what that one is?

[Seth Morris]

Well, it's pretty packaged up here.

[Brody Henderson]

Oh, then don't worry about it all. Geez, man. This just. This list just gets. It's a long one. The list just keeps going. 250 meat eater store gift card.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Brody Henderson]

And a 251st light gift card.

[Phil]

Holy cow.

[Seth Morris]

That's 500.

[Corey Calkins]

Big pride. I didn't know it was this big. I would have submitted a photo.

[Brody Henderson]

Does a bear in the woods for all that stuff?

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. Stay tuned again. We're going to try this again next month and maybe the month after.

[Brody Henderson]

Sounds like I think we should.

[Seth Morris]

It's kind of fun.

[Brody Henderson]

As long as Moultrie is going to kick down and we keep getting cool prizes. All right. Hope you enjoyed it. That's the end of today's show. Join us next week, everyone, and have a great weekend. Take it easy.

[Corey Calkins]

Later.

[Steve Rinella]

Steve Rinella Here. The American west with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on Deep time, wild animals, native peoples in the West's unique environments. Flores will challenge your understanding of the American west, and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history, and I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American west with Dan flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American west with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out, and I mean that in a very good way.

[Brody Henderson]

This is an iHeart podcast.