Ep. 731: East Coast Fishing and Killing Oaks | MeatEater Radio Live!

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast – Episode 731: East Coast Fishing and Killing Oaks | MeatEater Radio Live!

Release Date: July 11, 2025

In Episode 731 of The MeatEater Podcast, host Spencer Newarth brings listeners an engaging live edition from MeatEater HQ in Bozeman. Joined by co-hosts Cal and Mark Kenyon, the episode delves deep into pressing outdoor legislation, shares firsthand experiences from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR), and features entertaining segments like "One Minute Fishing," "The Price is Right," and "Show and Tell." Below is a comprehensive summary of the episode’s key discussions, insights, and conclusions.

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1. Arctic National Wildlife Refuge Expedition

[01:11 – 05:21]

The episode kicks off with Cal and Mark recounting their recent expedition to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Mark describes the journey through Brooks Ranch, highlighting the impressive caribou migration patterns.

Mark Kenyon [02:23]: "You'd be like, oh, there they are. And then five minutes later they'd be down the river valley... they were just motorin'."

Cal provides a detailed overview of ANWR, emphasizing its vastness and ecological significance.

Cal [03:11]: "The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is a 19.6 million-acre wildlife refuge... arguably the most intact ecosystem we have left in the United States."

Mark echoes this sentiment, noting its global significance.

Mark Kenyon [03:47]: "Which makes it probably one of the most intact ecosystems left in the world."

2. Legislative Spotlight: The Triple B Bill

[05:21 – 29:38]

The conversation shifts to the newly passed "Triple B Bill," a pivotal piece of legislation impacting ANWR. Cal and Mark discuss the bill’s mandates, including the controversial lease sales for oil and gas development.

Cal [06:42]: "This is where these caribou go and calve... the most polar bear denning sites are in Alaska. That's here as well."

Mark Kenyon [12:52]: "It's not mandated development. The previous leases that were sold were eventually turned back in because companies couldn't figure out how to do anything economically."

Cal expresses concern over the bill's vague language and potential environmental repercussions.

Cal [15:17]: "There's four mandatory lease sales within 10 years. They are 400,000 acres each."

Mark adds that while the bill primarily targets mineral leases, its broader implications could destabilize ANWR's fragile ecosystem.

3. Conservation Concerns and Public Land Protection

[29:38 – 46:09]

The discussion deepens as Cal and Mark explore the potential environmental impacts of the bill, particularly regarding mining and road construction. Cal highlights the urgency of protecting remaining untouched lands.

Cal [27:54]: "There's only a handful of communities of people who care about maybe preserving some of these last few spots."

Mark points out the economic and environmental challenges associated with such large-scale development.

Mark Kenyon [20:21]: "There's a lot more dollars flying around in that area... but a huge amount of those dollars are going to be directly exported overseas."

4. Listener Engagement: One Minute Fishing

[31:06 – 38:46]

The episode transitions into the interactive "One Minute Fishing" segment, featuring angler Bradley Pooler from Tennessee. Bradley showcases his fishing techniques and attempts to catch a fish within a minute.

Bradley Pooler [37:50]: "It was a small bluegill. He swung over the boat, and then as he swung back, he just flapped his tail and he was gone."

Though Bradley doesn't secure a catch this time, the segment remains a favorite for its engaging and fast-paced nature.

5. Fun and Games: The Price is Right

[47:09 – 58:17]

Cal and Mark participate in "The Price is Right," a playful segment where they guess the prices of quirky items listed on Facebook Marketplace. Highlights include:

• Cadaver Tray: Mark guessed $35, Ryan Callahan guessed $130. The correct price was $150, awarding Ryan his first point.

• Pheasant Print Loveseat: Mark guessed $150, Ryan Callahan guessed $64. The correct price was $75, giving Ryan a second point.

• First Light Gear Bundle: Ryan Callahan guessed $550, Mark Kenyon guessed $500. The correct price was $750, securing Ryan a clean sweep with his third point.

Noteworthy Quotes:

Mark Kenyon [51:31]: "What screws me up is what I think it's listed for versus what I'd offer."

Ryan Callahan: Successfully guessed all three items, demonstrating his keen eye for pricing.

6. Interactive Segment: Show and Tell

[58:45 – 72:29]

In "Show and Tell," the hosts and a guest share personal items related to their outdoor adventures:

• Cal: Presents a small caribou antler from ANWR, explaining its significance and the excitement it brings to his family.

Cal [60:07]: "These are two of the smallest antlers I could find... a caribou antler they can touch and feel and say, the dad found this in Alaska."

• Mark: Showcases a podcasting device purchased by Phil to aid in remote interviews.

• Spencer: Displays a unique book stamp featuring Smokey the Bear, symbolizing his personal library.

7. Listener Feedback and Q&A

[72:29 – End]

The episode concludes with listener questions, focusing on hunting strategies and personal anecdotes:

• Public Land Sales Impact on Caribou Hunts:

  Cal [64:45]: "The porcupine caribou herd... is one of the only caribou herds that's not in decline right now."

• Advice for New Hunters:

  Mark Kenyon [67:11]: "Put that person in a situation where they can try to make their own informed decisions."

• Book Recommendations:

  • Cal: The Quiet World by Douglas Brinkley – A historical exploration of Alaska's public lands.

  • Spencer: Pirates Code and Wolf Island – Both offering thrilling narratives tied to outdoor adventures.

8. Closing Remarks

Spencer wraps up the episode by thanking guests and listeners, setting the stage for future discussions on conservation, outdoor activities, and legislative impacts on wild spaces.

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Notable Quotes:

• Cal [27:54]: "We absolutely need resources... but those last few places... are just as rare and precious as gold, oil, or any kind of resource out there."

• Mark Kenyon [47:10]: "You need to be engaged because nothing is a given... being in the room and being consistent is always the best way to stay ahead."

• Spencer Newarth [46:09]: "I think the tides were turning on this... Mike Lee wondered who was funding all of this."

Conclusion

Episode 731 of The MeatEater Podcast offers a rich blend of firsthand wilderness experiences, in-depth legislative analysis, and interactive segments that engage both seasoned outdoor enthusiasts and newcomers alike. The hosts effectively balance serious discussions on conservation and environmental protection with lighthearted games and personal stories, making the episode both informative and entertaining.

Listeners gain valuable insights into the current state of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the implications of the Triple B Bill, and the broader challenges facing public land conservation. Additionally, segments like "One Minute Fishing" and "The Price is Right" add an element of fun, fostering a sense of community among outdoor lovers.

For those passionate about hunting, fishing, and preserving wild spaces, this episode serves as both a call to action and a celebration of the enduring beauty of America’s natural landscapes.

Transcript

[Spencer Newarth]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Lake Pickle]

Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the eastern United States home? Or what caused the rise and fall of bobwhite quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the beargrease Feed on Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Together we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. After all, you can't love what you don't understand. Search Bear grease on Apple, iHeart, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University.

[Cal]

Now.

[Mark Kenyon]

Smell us now, lady.

[Spencer Newarth]

Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia.

[Mark Kenyon]

Meat Eater Podcast.

[Spencer Newarth]

Welcome to Meat Eater radio live. It's 11am Mountain Time. That's noon o' clock for our friends in Grand Marais, Minnesota on Thursday, July 10th. And we're live from Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman. I'm your host, Spencer, joined today by Cal and Mark. On today's show, Cal and Mark will fill us in on the latest outdoor legislation. Then we'll be joined by Bradley Pooler for one minute fishing in Tennessee. After that we'll play the Price is Right. And finally we'll end the episode with some show and tell Cal and Mark back. So fresh from a trip that I can still smell the Alaska on you. What were you two boys doing there?

[Cal]

It's a good smell. We are in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, tell me more.

[Mark Kenyon]

Brooks Ranch. We kind of started on the waters that would be draining to the south of the Brooks Ranch. And this was super cool because it was like the start of the convergence of caribou, the porcupine herd, caribou. And then we. This is a very spoiled kid trip. We got a lot. We got picked up and dropped off three different times.

[Cal]

And when we got there, there were. There was no deliverable. We just had to go experience it.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah. But we got picked up and flew on the same route that these caribou were migrating on. And it was awesome because like in the first valley, the first creek that we camped on, these caribou would dump off the top of this super high ridge skylined. So you'd be like, oh, there they are. And then five minutes later they'd be down the river valley and then they'd, they would turn north and they were just motoring. Like they weren't grazing along for the most part. They were just following these ancient caribou paths. And then we got picked up, followed those Paths in the air through the Brooks Range and dropped off on the north facing slopes. And you could tell it was north facing because it was just the Arctic Ocean to the north of us.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Cal]

And taking a step back, for folks that aren't familiar, the Arctic National Wildlife refuge is a 19.6 million acre wildlife refuge, the largest wildlife refuge, I believe we have, one of the very, I think the second largest piece of public land in our system and, and quite possibly the most intact eco.

[Spencer Newarth]

Second to what?

[Cal]

Second to the Western Arctic, also known as the National Petroleum Reserve, Alaska, which is just to the west of it. And that's 23 million acres, I think. But this is, I think, arguably the most intact ecosystem we have left in the United States. It is.

[Mark Kenyon]

Which makes it probably one of the most intact ecosystems left in the world.

[Cal]

In the world. Stunning, diverse area. Like as he mentioned, where we started out on the south slope of the Brooks Range, which is the northernmost, more, excuse me, northernmost extension of the Rocky Mountains, southern side of that is where we were in the boreal forest, kind of butts up into that. And then you go up into the Brooks Range, you go over to the other side and that becomes this tundra ecosystem. And as Kel said, you enter this coastal plain which stretches to the Arctic Ocean. So we had epic mountain vistas and river bottoms. And then the second half of the trip we had this immense grassland, like the whole time we were there, especially that second half of the trip, when you look over this millions of acres grassland that is undeveloped, untouched all the way to the Arctic Ocean, knowing that in a few weeks there would be maybe 200,000 caribou out there. It was a moment in which I thought to myself, this is a little bit like what Lewis and Clark experienced, you know, 200 years ago or whatever it was. I've always wondered that when you go across the grasslands today in North Dakota or eastern Montana, I always thought, what was this like? It would have been so amazing to see this vast undeveloped grassland and all these creatures and we got to sit on a mountain and look over a grassland like that, a tundra ecosystem like that now, and see for. I mean, we, we thought we could probably see 60 to 100 miles in several directions with nothing.

[Mark Kenyon]

Easy. Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

To add some perspective, 30,000 square miles, that's the size of South Carolina that you guys are talking about.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, just way cooler because there's very.

[Spencer Newarth]

Few people and there, there's a reason this is more relevant now than maybe in the past. What were you guys doing there?

[Cal]

Well, we were There to, to be able to experience it and, and be able to bring back what we saw and experience and share that with the world. Because this is a place that has been hotly debated for a long time. It was first created in 1960 as a, about a 9 million acre refuge. In 1980 it was expanded to the current nearly 20 million acres. And at that time because of all the political, you know, horse trading that goes on, there was a 1.5 million acre section of the reserve. The refuge that was not protected as wilderness and instead designated for future study to either be designated as wilderness or to be opened up to development. That 1.5 million acres is this coastal plain area that me and Kayla were just talking about. That is where these caribou go and calve. This is where migratory birds from all 50 states go. This is where the largest land based polar bear denning sites, the most polar bear denning sites are in Alaska. That's here as well. That's this place that ever since 1980 has been very hotly debated about opening up to oil and gas development and.

[Spencer Newarth]

A place any American could go hunt, fish.

[Cal]

Caribou hunt. Yeah, whole nine yards, all that stuff.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah. I mean the reason that it's so pristine, Right, is because it's remote. It's a, it's tough to get to, it's expensive to get to. So. But that's the only limitation that people would have is like, is just time and expense to get up there. So we, we were, I left Missoula, Montana at like 7:30 at night and I was standing on the ground in the refuge at our first camp at like 130in the afternoon the following day. So it's not that hard to get to.

[Cal]

Not impossible to get to.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, you know, kind of gets referred to as like the Serengeti because it has this giant convergence of biomass. 350 different species of migratory birds show up there, which makes it like this birding hotspot. And oddly enough that's, that's a huge part of the, the eco tourism business up there is because if, if people want to check off certain species that they're, they're cataloging and they're birding apps and whatnot, like they'd kind of have to go there at some point. So it's, that's a huge draw. But then that porcupine caribou heard their migration. If you take like the furthest extent, right. It, it's, what is it, 2500 miles one way?

[Cal]

Yeah, 20 well, I think it's a total of 2, 700 miles that they.

[Mark Kenyon]

Train throughout the day. Yeah. So, yeah, between like 12 and. And 1500 miles one way. And, you know, we're talking like hundreds of thousands of animals, which is pretty wild. And so what we got to see was like this early convergence of like, pairs up to. I think the biggest group we saw was like 19 animals kind of converge in our little valley and, and head off north. And then when we were flying over the Arctic plain, what was really interesting is there were like solo animals or pairs just laying out there in the muskeg, you know, within pretty tight proximity to the ocean. And trying to imagine. And we just got a photo sent to us, but trying to imagine that place filling up, which is how they describe it, that's like happening right now. And our pilot with coyote air, he was talking about like flying over this thing and seeing thousands of caribou out in the Arctic Ocean that have actually like, waded out just to get away from the bugs, like, cool down in the summer heat and let. Let the Arctic breeze blow the black flies and the skeeters way, which would be pretty amazing.

[Cal]

I mean, I think, in short, it was the. The wildest, most spectacular place I've ever seen. I mean, me and Kale were talking while we were there. Is there anywhere else we've seen that can really compare compared to this as far as the scale and the remoteness and the wildness and the intact nature of it? And we've, we've been to some pretty cool places, but. But nothing that I've seen and experienced can, can touch this.

[Mark Kenyon]

And pretty much anybody that you talk to that has spent time in the Brooks Ranch have. They're highly impacted by it. Like, I mean, it's just, it's. For me, it was like, fairly emotional because it was just so. I've never been up there ever. And every turn of a valley just gets bigger and bigger, often ending in these permanent ice fields or glaciers. And it's pretty dang hiker friendly. Like, there's fresh water everywhere, really good water. And I was just like, oh my God, I don't have enough time to check this place out. And every part of my brain is like, you got to. You got to spend time here and check it out. And it's just like, almost pointless, right, because it's so, so big. But the reason for that, you know, folks want to be talking about this right now and talking about preserving it is because in the, the. The Triple B, the big, big beautiful bill there's mandatory leases, lease sales that would occur in both the Western Arctic, that National petroleum reserve, Alaska, NPR, and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in this, this 1002 area.

[Cal]

So, yeah, so, so to date, you know, it's been debated. Never was opened up to drilling ever before. So for decades and decades and decades has been in the undeveloped state. It's a. Now, in 2017, a similar reconciliation bill passed in which they tacked on a mandatory opening of the. What's called the 1002. That happened in 2017. On the last kind of big debate like this, there were mandated lease sales that happened, those got sold, and then some got canceled during the Biden administration. So no developments happened yet. But now the new bill just passed does force four lease sales of 400,000 acres each on the plane. And so, you know, Kel talked about getting emotional kind of flying over and seeing this place in the scale. For me, the moment was when I first saw the coastal plain. I hiked up all by myself as a kind of we got to do whatever we wanted. So one day I took off solo, took off to this small hill that was on the edge of the plane. I walked up there myself and got to the peak and looked out over this grasslands we talked about, could see all the way to the Arctic Ocean. And for the first time in my life, I looked over this incredible wild place that was as wild and remote and as untouched as anything I've ever seen. And then I had to look at it, knowing that if my kids ever got back here, it's very likely that it would not be the same, you know, because in a matter of years, if all this goes through the way that the bill says it will, it could be dramatically different. And that's the first time I've ever been so starkly faced with a definitive change to a place like that that, you know, like this could totally change the experience, the ecosystem, everything. Yeah, that was startling to see.

[Mark Kenyon]

It's kind of a. Interesting thing, right, because these are just leases. It's not mandated development. The previous leases that were sold were actually eventually turned back in because those companies couldn't really figure out how to do anything out there economically. There's also, through the exploration that's already been done there, there's a huge disagreement on what's actually under the ground there, like how much oil and gas up there that would be beneficial, worthwhile to get. Right. So it's a situation where the companies that, that build the infrastructure, they're going to make money hand over fist. But the benefit to our natural resources pool. The idea that like your pump price is going to go down dramatically is, is like, it's just not correct, right? Like, the reason that this stuff's been done in the past is because it was government subsidized. And without a big government subsidy to go up there and get this done, it's likely not going to happen because it's so cost prohibitive to operate up there. But there's all sorts of other conversations that are going on and it's like, could you incentivize other countries to go up there and develop this by reducing their tariffs? Which is a conversation that we're hearing. And then the conversation comes back to like, okay, so is it worth it for the American people to incentivize a foreign extractive industry on American soil in this extremely sensitive area? That's one of the last readouts. Refuges for all these different species for what? Like, like what is the game? Right? So there could be like this short term bump in gross domestic product because there's a lot more dollars flying around in that area. But at the same time, a huge amount of those dollars are going to be directly exported overseas and not stay in America.

[Spencer Newarth]

And how specific or vague is the language in the one big beautiful bill that addresses leases on minerals in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge?

[Cal]

I mean, as I understand it, the specificity ends at. There's four mandatory lease sales within 10 years. They are 400,000 acres each. And you know, as far as details, that's as far as I've seen spelled out how exactly that happens. I know that there was some language early in the drafts that would either remove or expediate any kind of review or legislation, review opportunities. And that had. That got pulled out, I think.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, they cut the red tapes.

[Cal]

They were going to cut that. Now that's back in a little bit. But are there any other details on that front, as you think? There's one other thing. On the western Arctic side, it's five mandated lease sales within 10 years. And those are 4 million acres each.

[Mark Kenyon]

And those western Arctic sales are a lot closer to existing infrastructure. So like the whole Prudhoe Bay, Dalton highway, that is a much more logistically doable jumping off point for, for those leases. And then of course, like our western Arctic caribou herd is basically in the dumps as far as overall population goes. I mean, it's been halved and halved again. And then, you know, that also is a huge waterfowl production area.

[Spencer Newarth]

So the bill signed into law on the 4th of July. What else should be on outdoorsman's radar about the bill?

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh well, I mean there's a lot of dumpster fires in there.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay. Pick a few to tell us about.

[Mark Kenyon]

I think for verse our sporting community folks. What got pulled out?

[Cal]

Boundary Waters got pulled out but is still worth talking about because it, yeah, public land sales. But Arctic Refuge, Maine stayed in Western Arctic stayed in some of like the possible funding stuff with LWCF I think is buried in there a little bit. But I don't know that as well as maybe you do. The two big ones I want to talk about are things that got pulled out but are still right.

[Mark Kenyon]

Finding different avenue. Right. So through agency versus legislation. So.

[Cal]

So I'll jump in on one of those things. So early on when we were, everybody was talking about what was in this bill and fighting the public land sales and all these different things. There was, there was the issue of the Boundary Waters being reopened to mining. It's been a decades long battle, more than 10 years now, in which there was a foreign owned mine that was proposed to be right in the edge of the Boundary Waters. Back and forth, the hunting and fishing and outdoor community has pushed back against it strongly over recent years. And a couple years ago kind of won a battle on that front with a mineral withdrawal, a 20 year mineral withdrawal which basically meant that you, you know, on the edges of the Boundary Waters Wilderness Canoe Area, you could not have a mine like this that would be, you know, seriously threatening that water based ecosystem with pollution, which was the big worry with these mines there on the edge. So There was a 20 year pause basically put in place in one of the original drafts of the one big beautiful bill. It was going to remove that mineral withdrawal which would allow the mines to move forward and mandate kind of fast tracking of those permits and get that going again. It got pulled out of the bill, but then. So it got pulled out of the bill. I saw that news. A lot of people saw that news. Everyone celebrated. The very next day the Secretary of Agriculture mentioned on Twitter X, I guess these days that they would be taking administrative action to roll back that mineral withdrawal themselves. So that is not outside of that social media post about it. It hasn't come up yet in the actual public register, but it looks like that's going to happen. I think that's a pretty big deal for hunters and anglers and the other.

[Mark Kenyon]

Thing, and it's not just the, the one Chilean mine that has the proposal for the open pit copper sulfide mine, which for you Montana kids or Visitors to Montana Butte, America, is a good example of that. There's a lot there. There's other active mine sites within the. The same area, but this Chilean one, you know, the company doesn't have a great track record of being environmentally friendly or good on doing their own cleanups. And that type of extraction is just known more for its mistakes than for going well.

[Cal]

As I understand it, there's not been a single mine of this type that has been developed without significant pollution issues, which makes sense.

[Mark Kenyon]

Like we're. You're. Especially in this area, it's like, highly porous. There's water everywhere. You know, you basically, like, kick the ground and you can find water. So the idea of bringing up all this heavy metal and the other pollutants used to refine those heavy metals on site and get them out of there, it. It's. It's way harder to stretch your brain to see how they could do it safely than the other way around.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, I spent a little bit of time there a few weeks ago on my way to Isle Royale. That was my first time in the Boundary Waters or that part of the country. And it was so cool and so special that I was sad that it took me until I was 33 to go explore. That's how cool the Boundary Waters are. So, place worth protecting.

[Cal]

Oh, yeah. And it's the opposite of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. From an access perspective, sure, it's the most accessible, vast wilderness like that for many people. It's the most visited. The most visited wilderness area in the United States.

[Spencer Newarth]

And despite it being the most visited, you'll still have any experience you want. You'll feel like you're the only one there.

[Cal]

Yeah, it's. It's remote, it's vast, it's gorgeous. I had an incredible canoe and deer hunt there a handful of years ago. I mean, it's loaded with grouse, tons of fishing opportunities. The deer hunting's tough, but you're not going to have a more scenic and enjoyable experience than that. So it's a sportsman's paradise. Yeah, it'd be a shame to see that, you know, defouled in some way.

[Lake Pickle]

Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the eastern United States home? Or what caused the rise and fall of bobwhite quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle is the latest addition to the Bear Grease Feed on Meat Eaters podcast network. Together we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to Conserving both. After all, you can't love what you don't understand. Search Bear grease on Apple, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University.

[Cal]

Now.

[Spencer Newarth]

The other thing you want to talk about, Mark, was the road.

[Cal]

This rule, I think that's just something to get on people's radar. Speaking of kind of rule rollbacks, it was announced two weeks ago or something like that, that the Forest Service will be rolling back something called the roadless rule, which was something put in place like 24 years ago, I believe. 2001, I guess so, yeah, about 21 years ago or 24 years ago. The roadless rule protects 58.5 million acres of our national forest from future road building. So back in the late 90s, it became. We became aware that, oh my gosh, there's more roads in the National Forest Service than anywhere else. There's twice as. There's twice as many miles of roads in the U.S. forest Service lands than there are across the rest of the nation. Is the number I read recently something like 400,000 miles or something like that? Lots of roads. And they realized, I read another quote was that we had cut the face off our national forest and had punch roads into every last nook and cranny except for these last kind of refuges and Elder Leopold and Bob Marshall and folks like this in the 30s and 40s, even back then were saying, hey, we got to be careful. We're not leaving many of these places left. And so of course, there was the wilderness designation that happened, and that was amazing. But then in the 90s, we realized, okay, we've got our last few sections here that we could keep in a not quite wilderness state, but at least not punched in with roads. We're going to protect those with this roadless rule. There's still some, like fire management that happens in those places. There's still some development that can happen in these places. But with this layer of roadless protection, which now I think you know, you know this better than me, Kel, living out here, but I think most of the best elk hunting spots, mule deer hunting spots, places that, you know, people want to get away from people, hunters want to find a backcountry place. It's often these roadless area protected parts of national forests that now, if this moves forward, would. Would be open a new road building and many other things.

[Mark Kenyon]

And. And this one's kind of more so spoken in terms of timber harvest and. And what, like wildfire management is the is the stated need to roll back the, the roadless rule, which is really interesting because on its face, if you rolled that back, all these areas would default to their previous management plan. And the vast majority of these roadless areas, their previous management plan didn't include timber harvest. So there would have to be a new management plan brought up. And if you're like really kicking ass, you can probably do that, let's say the fastest. I don't even believe 18 months, but let's just say it, that's a whole 18 months to two years of writing up that forestry management plan and then, and then putting that into effect. The scariest part to me is this includes the mineral, right? So it's not just access to timber, which is what gets talked about all the time, but it's access to those mineral deposits that exist in these areas too. Some of the things that we talk about as restrictions to logging. Right. Is when we started the setback regulations, right. So you can't cut timber this close to a stream. It's got to be set back X amount.

[Spencer Newarth]

You can't harvest your Christmas tree within like, I don't know, what is it, 66ft of a stream or something like that in Montana.

[Mark Kenyon]

So that's a setback. That's right, right there. Yeah. Yeah, good. Regulation. So and then there's a lot of these areas that, that have some previous old roads and, and have already already been harvested for timber as well. I think there's some, some give and take with this one. But the reality is like we have so few of these areas left that don't have this previous development in them. It would be real, real sad to see them go that way.

[Cal]

I mean, I think that's what a lot of this, this whole conversation comes down to is like we absolutely need resources. We need to utilize natural resources. Our public lands are multiple use. Public lands are tremendous places for that to happen when it's done carefully and appropriately. But at the same time, there are hundreds of millions of acres of our public land open to resource extraction and done. So the last handful of places that we have that aren't the few places that are still either roadless or in a intact place are just as rare and precious of a resource as gold, oil or any kind of resource out there. And I think that there's a whole lot of momentum across the entire world of civilization pushing us to develop, develop, develop, develop, that's going to happen. There's only a handful of communities of people who care about maybe preserving some of these last Few spots. So those of us who do care about wildlife or wild places, it's kind of incumbent on us to try to tap the brakes on some of this stuff where we still have that chance because we're not ever going to get it back.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah.

[Mark Kenyon]

And I mean, roads, just like a trail. Does roads bring people. I mean, that's. You know, a lot of the timber harvest that was done in the 70s was heavily government subsidized. 60s and 70s, because it was the government that was paying for the roads. And the idea. Right. Was like, oh, yeah, it's going to be better recreation corridors for people to get into these areas. Which. Which is absolutely true. But that's what made that timber marketable at that time. So I'm still real confused as to how some of these things are going to actually work with, you know, like, Doge was all everybody could talk about only a few short weeks ago. Right. And that's about, like, rolling back the amount of government expense. At the same time, a lot of these big projects only happened because the government was paying for them to happen, at least in some part or portion.

[Cal]

You know, funny thing, speaking of that, all this talk about how we need to increase revenues from our public lands because of the budget issues and deficit issues and all that, while folks are making that claim to justify opening these places up to development. Also in that bill, they have reduced the royalties on oil drilling, on extraction. So the folks who are going to take these resources off our public lands are paying the taxpayers in the nation less for that resource. That's not helping. The whole budget causes it.

[Spencer Newarth]

Sure. All things worth considering if you're listening to the show. Your public lands on their precious.

[Mark Kenyon]

Nobody. Nobody ever brings up revising the mining.

[Cal]

Act, man, there's an easy win.

[Mark Kenyon]

Nobody ever brings it up.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, we got a few plugs to do before we get on with the rest of the show. Marcus, there's a collab among some of our partners that I know you specifically are very excited about. Tell us about that.

[Cal]

Yeah, well, you've already had a list of me jaw for a while, but I'll. I'll keep this one. Quick. Our pals at Moultrie and Onyx are working together now, which is pretty fun. Very simply put, you can now connect your Moultrie trail cameras to your Onyx Hunt app. So they work together. So that when you go into your Moultrie app and you log in with your Onyx account, when I head out there and I go set up a new Moultrie camera, like I Did a month or so ago before I took off for Idaho. It will automatically drop a pin on my map showing where my camera is, which is pretty nice. So I can always see it. And then I can actually click on that pin and see the photos pulled in from my Moltri cameras in the same place.

[Spencer Newarth]

Very convenient.

[Cal]

So very convenient. Some really cool different ways you can use that and you can dive into the details a little bit more. But if you use moultrie cameras and if you use the Onyx Hunt amp, this is a great way to. To get the best of both worlds in one place and keep your trail camera data and your hunt plan data a little bit more easily accessible and. And top of mind.

[Spencer Newarth]

And it's just getting harder and harder to lose a trail camera. The amount of trail cameras I come across in the woods that have clearly been there for a decade and not visited, you know, for about that same amount of time. It happens too often.

[Cal]

If only there was an app that would show me where I lost the keys to the lock that attached my camera to the tree. Yeah, I need that one.

[Mark Kenyon]

Whitetail guy problems, you know? Yeah.

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

One more plug. The new hats. They are in the store July 12th, so in two days from now. Marcus has one right now.

[Cal]

Check out Wired Hunt.

[Spencer Newarth]

I've got a bison hat. I'm pretty thrilled about these, and they're going to be available stored atthe meat eater.com in two days. All right. We have now served our audience a big heaping plate of vegetables. When I think about content, I think about the content as vegetables, meat, or candy.

[Cal]

We've.

[Spencer Newarth]

We've just given you a big old helping of vegetables, which is good. You need to eat your vegetables the rest of the show, though. We got meat and candy coming at you. You. You guys good with that?

[Cal]

I'm giving.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, our next segment is one minute fishing.

[Phil]

Oh, do I feel lucky?

[Cal]

Well, do you, punk?

[Phil]

Go ahead, make my cast.

[Spencer Newarth]

One Minute Fishing is brought to you by Onx Fish. To find your new favorite place to fish, go to onxmaps.com fish one minute fishing is where we go live to someone who's fishing and they have one minute to catch a fish. And if they're successful, we'll make a 500 donation to a conservation group this week. Our angler is Bradley Pooler, AKA Find and fish on Instagram. He's on a creek in northern Tennessee and fishing for a donation to the Cumberland River Compact. Bradley, welcome to the show.

[Phil]

Howdy.

[Bradley Pooler]

Hey, folks. I'm so stoked to be here. Thanks for having me, guys.

[Spencer Newarth]

Thanks for being here. Bradley, you. You run one of my favorite accounts on Instagram. You make some of the most unique fishing content on the Internet. Tell folks what find and fish is.

[Bradley Pooler]

Man, that's. That's super kind of you. Thank you. It's a pretty simple concept. Basically, when you're out fishing and you see a snag lure, then you just try to retrieve it and then fish it, like right there where you found it on that body of water. It's just like a super fun way to like, try different, different lures and challenge yourself, you know, in ways that you wouldn't normally. So, yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

How did this lure recycling endeavor of your start?

[Bradley Pooler]

Well, man, I, I grew up fishing as a little kid, but kind of phased out of it when I was older and I picked it back up in 2020 when the pandemic started, as, you know, so many people did then. And so while I was out, you know, visiting all these new places, trying to relearn how to fish, I just couldn't help but notice like every single place had a lure hanging out of a tree or that somebody had like dropped on the bank or something. And it just became like this big scavenger hunt treasure.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay. How many, how many lures do you think you found by now?

[Bradley Pooler]

I got crazier and crazier. Started with just my. Oh, probably I think like 360 over the three to four years that I have been doing it. And that's like before the posting, you know, or after the posting. Sorry. So I've found a lot in those first years.

[Spencer Newarth]

And what's the biggest snag of lures you've come across?

[Bradley Pooler]

Man, I, I think probably it was in north Alabama visiting my in laws. We found this like big old rats nest alive and up in a tree. Pulled the pole out, tried to pull on it, and you could just see all the trees. I don't remember how many lures I got out of that, but it was a, like, it was a sizable wad of line that we pulled out of the tree.

[Spencer Newarth]

And what's the most common lures you find in the most common places you find them?

[Bradley Pooler]

I, it really varies. There's a lot. I, I found a good spread of lures, but a lot of rooster tails and like, you know, inline spinners, especially like where they're trout, you know, stocking trout and you know, jigs, like any kind of jigsaw, curly tails, bobby garlands, that sort of thing. And then I've kind of found a little slew of whopper ploppers lately, which is just kind of a weird fluke, but I'm not mad about it.

[Spencer Newarth]

Are there any lures that get you really excited when you come across them?

[Bradley Pooler]

Yeah, the whopper ploppers, honestly, I just. I get giddy every time I find it. They're like nine plus dollars, you know, and they're super fun to fish super fast, and the hits are amazing, of course.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, on the water today, have you found any lures yet this afternoon?

[Bradley Pooler]

No. No, I haven't. This is one of my favorite spots to fish, and I've picked it pretty clean. Lures don't last very long here.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's good. That's good for today's one minute fishing. Tell us about where you're at, what you're fishing for, and how you're doing it.

[Bradley Pooler]

Yeah, yeah. So I'm on a creek that feeds the cumberland, and basically this is a pretty wide spot right here. Super shallow in the center, but it's deeper on the side here with a little bit of shade cover. And then I've got a little bit deeper spot over here with some weed cover. So hoping that I can just kind of, you know, cover. Cover around as fast as I can. I kind of changed up my tactic a little bit. I was going to use a little Bobby Garland jig that I found here a couple weeks ago, but when I time myself, it was just too slow. I couldn't get enough retrieves. So I've switched over to just a little black. Little black rooster tail. And hopefully that's going to give me maximum casts, you know, around here and cover as much water as I can.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay. Is that. Is that a rooster tail that you.

[Bradley Pooler]

Found or a smallmouth? It is not here. I don't think it came out of a big box of tangled lures that I've pulled off of trees. But yeah, I did find this one and I've got a backup one over here on different rod if I need it, so.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, Bradley, your one minute of fishing starts when you make that first cast.

[Bradley Pooler]

Let's do it.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right. Bradley's line is in the water. Had a very audible cast. That's. That's kind of him for our podcast audience to make that so loud. He's already on his second cast. 10 seconds in.

[Cal]

I like the retrieve. Is he gonna switch it up, though? I'm wondering if he's gonna stick with a consistent retrieve on every one of the cast or do something different.

[Spencer Newarth]

I think his. If he's gonna switch it up, he's gonna cast to the other side of the canoe. Oh, there's a little twitch. 30 seconds.

[Cal]

No, keep going.

[Mark Kenyon]

Keep going. Keep going.

[Spencer Newarth]

You got 30 seconds left.

[Cal]

That's amazing.

[Spencer Newarth]

What was it, Bradley?

[Cal]

Let him focus. Let him focus.

[Spencer Newarth]

Get another one. He looks panicked now. 15 seconds left. Oh, wow.

[Mark Kenyon]

See if he can recover.

[Bradley Pooler]

Can he do it?

[Spencer Newarth]

10 seconds to go, Brad.

[Cal]

Wow. All right, one last cast. Here it is.

[Spencer Newarth]

Final cast.

[Cal]

Twitch, twitch, twitch.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh. Did not happen today. That is your one minute. Tell us what happened there on that fish.

[Bradley Pooler]

Oh, brother. He got. He swung over the boat, and then as he swung back, he just flapped his tail and he was gone.

[Spencer Newarth]

It was a small mouth.

[Bradley Pooler]

It was not. It was a, like, kind of small bluegill. Like, I was thinking maybe.

[Mark Kenyon]

Nice.

[Cal]

That's pretty cool.

[Spencer Newarth]

Well.

[Cal]

Oh, man.

[Bradley Pooler]

Sorry, guys.

[Spencer Newarth]

That. That was exciting. Almost happened. We'll have you back on the show, Bradley, to do this.

[Bradley Pooler]

I would love to. When you started this segment, man, I was like that. That is a segment I would love to do someday. So thanks so much for having me, guys.

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, you did great.

[Spencer Newarth]

Thanks for joining us. Thanks for making great content. Thanks for cleaning up after your fellow anglers.

[Bradley Pooler]

Oh, thank you so much. Oh, the tag is fine. And fish on Instagram.

[Spencer Newarth]

There you go. Check it out. Watch out.

[Bradley Pooler]

Thanks, guys. We'll see you later.

[Cal]

See you, Brad.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, we're halfway through the show. Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what's the chat have to say?

[Phil]

Chat's doing great today. Sometimes we're a little light on questions, but we've got a. Got a surplus.

[Mark Kenyon]

Right.

[Phil]

Let's see here. Yeah. Christopher asks Cal, what is some good advice for getting ahead of hunting bands? Washington is now going after regulating coyote hunting with. With. No. No science. He corrected himself in a different comment.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, the. It's a great question. You know, I think the boilerplate answer is, is your means to being proactive is securing the right to hunt and fish in your state? However, it's. It's always consistent education. I feel like things are changing now. And the state of Washington, if you're a hunter or an angler, even in that state, you need to be engaged because nothing is a given. So being in the room and being consistent is always the best way to stay ahead of this stuff, which means you don't get activated only when times are bad and the fire is on your doorstep. Like, you got to make. Make sure that you're aware. And you can do that by, you know, being signed on with a bunch of different Conservation groups in their newsletters. So you're aware of what's happening and then figuring out how to make the time to show up for the comment periods in person, writing, etc, so it's, it's a job.

[Phil]

Nathan asks, does Mark have a whitetail deer season update? What is he doing to prepare for the season this time of year?

[Cal]

Yeah, so the update would be hunting my home state of Michigan. Of course it's going to be a different year there because for most of the last decade plus more than that now, I've usually had a deer or two every year coming into the new season that I've known from previous years. So I'm like I'm going after this deer or that deer. I'm excited to see this deer. Every deer I was interested in last year disappeared. Oh.

[Spencer Newarth]

What do you think happened?

[Mark Kenyon]

Using the wrong bait, no bait.

[Cal]

No bait. Kill. So maybe that is the wrong bait, no bait. But it is illegal where I live so it's the right choice. I don't know. You know more. I have a thousand theories. 2.

[Spencer Newarth]

2. It's not too late for one to show up though.

[Cal]

It's not too late for 1 to show. For certain something will show. But the question is, will a deer that I have any history with show up again after being gone for, you know, 12 months? I don't know. So all that to be said is that I'm actually kind of excited about it because it's going to be a little bit different. It's going to be fresh slate, going to be a bunch of mystery and going back to just having fun out there, not worrying about what day I'm after. Just sitting out there in the woods and maybe spend some more time, get the boys out there with me more and enjoy it in different ways.

[Spencer Newarth]

Give me some names though of the deer who you hope might show up.

[Cal]

Oh like if, if they were to show back up from last year. Oh geez. There was a deer we call my son. My kids named the deer that I that we see now. So my son named this one Bulldozer and we found his match set last spring. My, my at the time he was 4. Found one of these antlers. So like very cool that my 4 year old found this antler and he's super excited to see this deer and we were really hopeful he'd be around last year and he was around a couple times but disappeared in early November. So if he showed back up, he'd be probably a six and a half year old buck which would be a very, very Old buck for our air. So that'd be really cool.

[Spencer Newarth]

It's going to be at his peak or like just starting to get beyond it.

[Cal]

Yeah, he's one of those deer that isn't going to, you know, raise a whole bunch of eyebrows when it comes to antlers. But he was a massive bodied deer, like, very cool. Blind in one eye. I thought that was very, very cool. I'd seen him since he was a three year old, so I watched him as a three, four and five year old.

[Spencer Newarth]

Was he blind as a three year old?

[Cal]

It was his. I think it was late in his third year. It was like December when I noticed, like, oh, something happened to that buck. And then the whole fourth year and then fifth year, you could see that very obviously injured eye. So he would be the one I'd be really excited to see. I do know that that's hard because.

[Mark Kenyon]

If, you know he's coming in on one side, it'd be better to have your tree stand on the left hand side, the dead eye side. But he's only going to turn to the right.

[Spencer Newarth]

The biggest that I ever hunted. One that I, like, got to like, form a relationship with where I knew he existed for a number of years. He was blind to one eye and it didn't give me the advantage I needed to kill him. So it's not a death sentence?

[Cal]

No, no, it's not. But, but yeah. So I'd love for him to show back up. And then I also drew an Iowa tag this year. So I'm very excited to go to Iowa. It's been a handful of years since I've. North Iowa.

[Spencer Newarth]

Okay, Iowa, that's a good way to put it. What else we got, Phil?

[Phil]

We have a Janice asking, is Mark Kenyon ready to pace Janice in two weeks at the Crazy Mountain 100?

[Cal]

Yes, Janice, he is ready. It's very exciting though, guys. I am going to be pacing Giannis for the final stretch of his hundred mile run.

[Spencer Newarth]

So how many miles?

[Cal]

So my segment's just like eight, I think, but I'll be with him for the final eight, the last eight miles of his 100 mile race. I will be there to drag his dead body across the final finish line. And very honored, honored to be able to be a part of that with him.

[Spencer Newarth]

That's probably the, the most important position in the 100 miler, I would imagine.

[Cal]

He, he told me that he thought I'd be a good pacer because I'm the kind of guy who would research how to be a good pacer.

[Spencer Newarth]

I Like that.

[Cal]

That sounds on brand.

[Spencer Newarth]

Give us a few more, Phil.

[Phil]

Yeah, sure. Kyle says Cal will be proud that his call for public action prompted me to contact both my senators on this subject. On that topic, how many calls or signatures would it take for him to host a round of trivia?

[Mark Kenyon]

I don't think Spencer would ever trust me with that. So that's more of a Spencer question.

[Spencer Newarth]

Where is Kyle asking to host trivia?

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, no, I don't think Cal.

[Phil]

He wants Cal to host.

[Spencer Newarth]

Cal has an open invite. Cal, if you ever want to host trivia, you come and host trivia.

[Mark Kenyon]

That genuinely surprises me, Spencer.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, I'm happy to have other folks in this chair. Same goes for Mark. I think Mark would actually take me up on that. Okay. It's going to happen.

[Mark Kenyon]

Kyle, though, thank you very much for. For calling your elected officials. The reality is, is anybody in this room can scream at the top of our lungs as loud as we can. And as long as we can, and unless other people join in, we're just not going to be effective. Like, it is the definition of a. Of a team effort. And we can't do it without you. So thank you.

[Cal]

So a silver lining of the whole public land sale issue that we've experienced over the last couple months is that I think a whole lot of people finally did this, finally picked up the phone and gave folks a call. I can think of so many people I've talked to personally who are like, hey, I finally did it. It wasn't that bad. I think people realize that it's not as hard as you think. It's not intimidating. You don't need to be an expert. You don't have to debate anyone on the other side of the line. And it can make a difference. We saw that by picking up the phone. And all of us from all, you know, from all stripes of life, we all came together and made these phone calls and sent these emails, and it did make a difference. And so I think, hopefully to your point earlier, with, you know, whether it be rights to hunt and predator hunting, all these different things, we're going to need to keep doing that. And I think more people are confident and comfortable doing that moving forward.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. And in the couple days leading up to it, finally getting pulled from the bill, there were two things that encouraged me that, like, the tides were turning on this. This one was that on Twitter, which is where I get my sports news, that people were tweeting about this for the first time in my lifetime. It, like Twitter became a platform where it wasn't hunters and anglers either who, like, cared about this thing and who were talking about it, and it was, like, trending on Twitter for a few days. Mike Lee was the other thing that was very encouraging was Mike Lee, that giant douchebag, had tweeted out that he wondered aloud who was funding all of this.

[Mark Kenyon]

Right.

[Spencer Newarth]

Who was organizing this amount of feedback?

[Mark Kenyon]

He's like, I know who's paying me to try to get this stuff developed.

[Spencer Newarth]

It was so overwhelming from the people listening to this show and beyond that that he made the assumption that there was some boogie shadow organization. So that's how powerful your voices were on this message.

[Mark Kenyon]

Darn right cool.

[Spencer Newarth]

Let's do one more, Phil.

[Phil]

Okay, let's see here. Phil from Logan, I need to know who's your favorite character in Lord of the Rings? First person that popped into my head was that fool of a took, Pippin. Pippin Took.

[Cal]

I thought you were saying Gandalf.

[Phil]

Oh, well, I mean, you know, that's.

[Cal]

Kind of said that line.

[Phil]

I know that's too obvious, but I was.

[Mark Kenyon]

I'm referring to Peregrine.

[Phil]

His arc in Return of the King is my favorite. And when Billy Boyd sings Steward of Gondor, it moves me. It stirs my bones.

[Mark Kenyon]

I'm gonna need some sort of a mashup of this, Phil, to understand what you just said in your spare time.

[Phil]

I'll get to work on that.

[Spencer Newarth]

Our next segment is the Price is Right.

[Phil]

Here it comes from Bozeman, Montana Media Radio's most exciting 10 minutes. It's the Price is Right.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yes.

[Phil]

Mark Kenyon, come on down.

[Mark Kenyon]

Mark Canyon, welcome.

[Phil]

Callahan, come on down. You're the next two contestants on meat eater radios. The Price is Right. Now, here's your host, Spencer Newhall.

[Spencer Newarth]

Thank you, Phil. This is the candy that I was referring to earlier in the episode that we'd get to. Now, this game is really simple. What do you got, Cal?

[Mark Kenyon]

I said, if you don't sign off by saying, remember to get your dogs and cats neutered. I'm gonna be.

[Spencer Newarth]

I have it in my script.

[Mark Kenyon]

Thank God. Thank God.

[Spencer Newarth]

This game is really simple. Phil is going to tell you about a product from the meat eater universe, and you need to guess its price. The player with the closest answer without going over will be declared the winner. If both players go over, then you'll both be told to try again. And the chat should play along as well, because whoever has the closest answer will get a shout out from Phil. All right, this week, all three products are from Facebook Marketplace. Phil, tell us about the first item up for bid.

[Phil]

Yeah, we'll do it. We're doing it slightly different, so. So forgive me here. Let's see here. Let's start today's bidding with some utility metal trays in Belgrade, Montana. These eighth of an inch sheets of aluminum were originally fabricated as cadaver trays during COVID But the seller says they'd be useful to any hunter as a butchering station or for gear storage in the back of your truck. No more allowing blood to freely flow across your kitchen table. And no more aqua awkwardly crawling across the bed of your pickup to reach that lantern. He also says they work great. Great for hydroponic gardening or as shelves in your garage. This has us here in the studio wondering, what can't a cadaver tray do?

[Spencer Newarth]

That's right, Phil. This is surely a listing that'll knock them dead.

[Cal]

Wow.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, Cal and Mark, what is the price for one of those trays off of Facebook marketplace?

[Mark Kenyon]

It's just one tray.

[Spencer Newarth]

One tray. That's what he had, the price. We're just looking for one tray, if you want. He said in his listing you could get a good deal by buying that whole dang set up there, buying multiple trays at a time. But we're just buying one tray. And these are six and a half feet long, two and a half feet wide, and they're built with, quote, marine edge that has full fluid retention.

[Mark Kenyon]

I mean, that's an expensive deal. Welded, aluminum.

[Spencer Newarth]

These were designed to be cadaver trays, but this. This guy is sure that any outdoorsman could use one of these. Kat, what would you do with one of them trays?

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, I think that that'd be a killer thing to just haul out and put on the kitchen counter when you're butchering stuff.

[Spencer Newarth]

Sure.

[Mark Kenyon]

Easy to clean. Hit it with a little. Little bleach, and you're good to go. Yeah, I mean, I'd take a cadaver tray.

[Spencer Newarth]

Belgrade, Montana. That's realistic, actually.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah. Boy, that's a tough one.

[Spencer Newarth]

How you boys doing? Do you have an answer? Again, this is just for one tray. We're pricing six and a half feet long, two and a half feet wide, made of aluminum. And you can see in one of the details of his photos, he shows you his welding ability. How's that weld look to you, Cal?

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, it's beautiful.

[Cal]

He's a good welder, but that has nothing to do with what we're purchasing today.

[Spencer Newarth]

No, but it gives you some confidence in the seller that this man takes a lot of pride in his cadaver Trade work.

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right. You boys have an answer?

[Cal]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Spencer Newarth]

Go ahead and reveal your answers. We have mark Kenyon saying $35, Ryan Callahan saying $130.

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, I won that. I'm way low.

[Spencer Newarth]

The correct answer is $150. Giving Ryan Callahan the first point. He was $20 off. This seller says he'll cut you a deal if you buy four or more. Phil, how'd the chat do?

[Phil]

We had a couple people get it right on the money. We had Brendan say 150.

[Spencer Newarth]

Dang. Brendan.

[Phil]

Nathan also saying 150.

[Spencer Newarth]

Well done, Brendan and Nathan. Marcus.

[Cal]

Stainless steel trays before Kel.

[Mark Kenyon]

I mean, you just know the material. That's expensive. I mean, that's expensive.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. Six and a half feet of aluminum.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

Two and a half feet wide. I'll let you know. Mark, I don't think Cal's ever lost this game.

[Cal]

Oh, really?

[Spencer Newarth]

You're coming in up against our toughest.

[Mark Kenyon]

Opponent, and this is intimidating. I mean, just so people understand the context of my buying habits, I'm wearing a five year old free T shirt right now. Like, not out there hitting the marketplace.

[Spencer Newarth]

I spent a lot of time on Facebook Marketplace.

[Cal]

Well, I do feel like, given what you just said there, you might be the kind of person who buys their clothes and stuff on Facebook Marketplace.

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, Goodwill.

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, it's hard for. I avoid Goodwill because I always come out of there with more stuff than.

[Spencer Newarth]

I find your own things in Goodwill. That's what happens to me. All right, Phil, tell us about the second item up for bid.

[Phil]

Next up is a pheasant print loveseat with a hideaway bed in Colton, South Dakota. This loveseat is pure grandma core furniture, AKA Granny chic. You know what I'm talking about. It's those loud, nostalgic designs that are printed with a repeating image of a rustic blue barn with a farm plow perched outside, or an old mill with a working water wheel. Or a floral pattern consisting of red and orange and gold flowers. But at least those ugly couches were comfortable, right? No, absolutely not. The scratchy fabric would give you a rash, and the wood trimmed arms were more likely to give you a neck ache than a good night's sleep. This particular couch is printed with a flushing pheasant pattern, so, you know, grandpa had a say in its purchase. It's the perfect spot to watch your favorite episode of Green Acres and eat leftovers out of a country crock tube.

[Spencer Newarth]

Mm. And it was off Facebook Marketplace before I could message the seller to buy it myself. This Listing disappeared in just 17 hours.

[Cal]

Now, I want to make sure I got this right because I do think cost of living in the region. It's for sale matters. So did you say this was in South Dakota?

[Spencer Newarth]

Colton, South Dakota. This is about 30 minutes outside of their biggest city, Sioux Falls. So eastern South Dakota is where this came from. It's already gone, though. I wish I could have lived, logistically figured out how to make this my own, but I could not.

[Cal]

I could see in some places this could go for a lot of money in one of the. In the kind of like that. Like. Like your wife is into. She's kind of into like that old, like, boutique y old stuff and making it new.

[Mark Kenyon]

Do you have a guess, Mark?

[Cal]

I do.

[Spencer Newarth]

And this is in. You know, the hunting. The pheasant hunting lodge capital of the world. So what a piece. Green Acres. Phil, did you love Green Acres?

[Phil]

I don't think I've seen an episode of Green.

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, but you know the song, right, Nick, at night.

[Cal]

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Spencer Newarth]

Acres is the place to be.

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Farm living.

[Spencer Newarth]

Farm Spread out far and.

[Mark Kenyon]

Wide Keep Manhattan Just give me that countryside.

[Spencer Newarth]

Here we go. We know it. All right, you boys ready? Go ahead and reveal your answers. We have mark saying $150 and Ryan Callahan saying $64. The correct answer is $75. Giving Ryan Kellahan his second point. Just $11 off the correct answer.

[Mark Kenyon]

What? What screws me up is what I think it's listed for versus what I'd offer.

[Spencer Newarth]

Sure.

[Mark Kenyon]

Right.

[Spencer Newarth]

$64. Pretty good deal. And it's a hideaway bet on top of that.

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, I'm. I'm walking away with that thing at. Right. At 50. No, more.

[Spencer Newarth]

Like I said, it disappeared in 17 hours, so there must have been some real demand. All right, Cal has already wrapped up the victory, but we'll see if he can get a clean sweep and make Mark run around the building naked as his tradition.

[Phil]

Really quick, we had Odie, the Good shepherd with 75. With 75. And Spencer 2.0 with 75.

[Spencer Newarth]

Well done, you three. All right, Phil, tell us about the third item up for bid today.

[Phil]

Our final item today is First Light gear that's being sold by a former meat eater employee. He's got four items available, including a brand new refuge parka, a brand new LZ jacket, a like new Sanctuary 2.0 jacket, and a like new kiln hoodie. He says it's great gear and he's happy to provide references, including from some folks who actually work at First Light. No kidding. And you can feel good about your purpose because it's helping him fund a down payment to his first home.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

He says these items are priced to move. It's almost as though he got them for free at a discounted rate. Cal and Mark, what is his asking price for those four pieces of first together? All four together, it was a Refuge Parka LZ jacket, Sanctuary 2.0 jacket, and kiln hoodie.

[Cal]

That's a lot.

[Spencer Newarth]

Those four items together.

[Cal]

Price to go. And he's trying to buy a house.

[Spencer Newarth]

He's trying to buy a house. He says, and I like this individual, so I'm not gonna rat him out too bad. Just.

[Phil]

Are you allowed to say who it is?

[Cal]

Yeah. I feel like someone's gonna snoop this guy out and he's gonna get.

[Spencer Newarth]

It's gone. It's sold. You'll never. You'll never solve this mystery. What is the asking price for these four first light items? Cal loves that refuge park. I know it.

[Mark Kenyon]

I mean, it's. It's burly. It's amazing. I mean, I let Snort use it as, like, a blind dog bed.

[Spencer Newarth]

What a compliment.

[Mark Kenyon]

A whole year because it wasn't, like, cold enough for me to wear it, but I wanted to get the wear and tear in there. So, like, dog pawing and mud and all the stuff. And it's still totally waterproof. And it's a great gray jacket.

[Spencer Newarth]

Again, it's a Refuge Parka LZ jacket, Sanctuary 2.0 jacket, and a, like, new kiln hoodie. You boys have your answer.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

Go ahead and reveal your answer. We have Ryan callahan. Callahan saying $550. Mark Kenyon says $500. The correct answer is $750. Giving Ryan Callahan the third point and the clean sweep. Now purchase new. They'd be worth over $1,400.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

So you're getting these at 50% off.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Ben, in the chat with 650, who I think was the closest.

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, well done, Ben. I like that guy. All right, that's the end of today's game of Price is Right. Thanks for playing along. And remember to help control the pet population, have your pet spayed and neutered.

[Mark Kenyon]

Love it. Great job.

[Spencer Newarth]

Drew Carey. He's been hosting Price is right for 18 years now. If you'd like to feel old, I have never that's.

[Mark Kenyon]

Ever watched a Drew Carey. Price is Right.

[Cal]

Did you ever watch Drew Carey on Whose Line is It Anyway? No, no, that's when I used to watch.

[Spencer Newarth]

I liked Drew Carey on the Drew Carey Show.

[Mark Kenyon]

Cleveland rocks.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. And Cleveland Rocks. Amazing intro. That was when people cared about the music that played for the. The intro of their good stuff.

[Phil]

Choreographed dances through the streets.

[Spencer Newarth]

Well, and they had to change. Who is that? Presidents of the United States of America.

[Phil]

I think so. Yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

And then they had to change that intro a few.

[Phil]

Oh, I did. I didn't know this.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, our next segment is show and tell.

[Mark Kenyon]

Spencer, I have a doctor's appointment in three minutes.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, Kat, what did you bring to show the classroom today?

[Mark Kenyon]

What were we supposed to bring, Spencer?

[Cal]

Jeez.

[Mark Kenyon]

I brought a good attitude, okay.

[Phil]

And somehow worse than the shoe last time.

[Mark Kenyon]

Did you ever consider I'm wearing flip flops today.

[Cal]

Does Kale ever open emails?

[Mark Kenyon]

I do. There's just a lot of them. A lot of them.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah. As I nervously scan for. Oh, I have.

[Spencer Newarth]

A piece of.

[Mark Kenyon]

Phil can tell you more about this pod track P4.

[Phil]

I bought it for Cal. So you have a more compact setup for his remote podcast interviews. Because he's a man. He's a man on the road. He's busy.

[Spencer Newarth]

Someday that's gonna end up in goodwill.

[Mark Kenyon]

Out out there and long and lonesome.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, Marcus, what did you bring for show and tell?

[Cal]

I brought a very small caribou antler from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Cal]

We were finding all sorts of caribou sheds throughout our adventure that we everybody about and some big ones. But I got to thinking, man, I can't. Maybe I could bring one big one home. It'd be a little bit of a hassle. But the problem is you can't bring one home of anything in my household because I've got two sons. Oh, if you've got one, you've got none. So I wasn't gonna bring two huge caribou sheds back with everything else, so I decided to search out the smallest antlers I could find.

[Spencer Newarth]

How many antlers did you guys see?

[Cal]

Oh, geez.

[Mark Kenyon]

I mean, quite a few, but put.

[Spencer Newarth]

A number on it.

[Mark Kenyon]

I found three moose antlers.

[Spencer Newarth]

No, no, no. I mean, how? At the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Okay.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Yep. But total antlers. I mean, we just. You wouldn't even go pick them up. You would just see them off in the distance. I would say, you know, more than 50?

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, probably.

[Cal]

So I brought the two smallest ones I could find, and this is one of them. And the boys were very excited with them, and they keep them in their bedroom now, and it feels pretty. Pretty exotic to them. A caribou antler they can touch and feel and say, the dad found this in Alaska and kind of a fun story for them to.

[Spencer Newarth]

I can't believe their pedicle is even that small, even at their. Their youngest antler development age.

[Mark Kenyon]

Well, yeah. And, I mean, that could have been off a cow. A cow. So.

[Cal]

Female said. It's a good point.

[Phil]

Brent says it's the antler from the grinch's dog.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah. You know what? It's pretty good.

[Spencer Newarth]

It does look like that.

[Cal]

It does look like that.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah. That is a cool little.

[Cal]

Yeah, I. I won dad of the week award with these.

[Spencer Newarth]

Now, how did you decide which son got which antler?

[Cal]

That was a little bit of like a push and shove and see who grabbed what first. Oh, I stayed out of that one, but they were both happy with what they ended up with and. And very excited to bring those back and show their buddies here in a month or so.

[Spencer Newarth]

You see how easy that is, Cal? You must have a hundred antlers at your house you could have brought.

[Mark Kenyon]

I do. I got a billion things going through my brain at every second, though, too, so it's hard to keep it straight. I thought.

[Cal]

Kel, I thought you were gonna bring your moose shed, because I did. Cal's got a cool moose shed story from our trip if we have time to tell it.

[Mark Kenyon]

I packed a huge moose shed home all the way.

[Spencer Newarth]

If only it was here to look at.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah. And I just.

[Cal]

Yeah, but the way you found it.

[Mark Kenyon]

Well, we flew over it and somebody in the plane made the comment, like, oh, that's a hikeable distance from camp.

[Cal]

You.

[Mark Kenyon]

No, not me. But when we landed, the whole time I was like, that's a lot further away. You cover a lot of ground in a plane. Right. And. Yeah, so I just started hiking and eventually did. Did come across it, but also found, like, a old caribou deadhead that was face down in the muskeg, and the antlers were, like, sinking into the muskeg, like, it's going to be a fossil here in another thousand years, you know? And. Yeah, real, real cool. Just big, long slog, but found that brought it all the way back.

[Spencer Newarth]

Wish I could see it. Yeah, I'd love to be holding that thing right now.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, it impressed the hell out of the UPS driver the other day, so.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, my show and tell item is a stamp. This is a stamp that my wife got me this year, the last time we were in New York City. And this is a book stamp so that I can stamp all of my books. It says, from the library of Spencer Newarth. It's got a shirtless smokey the Bear on there, who's holding a shovel. And this way, when Mark Kenyon wants to borrow a book from me, he knows that he has to give it back. There's no arguing because all of my books now have this stamp in them.

[Cal]

Thank you for doing this, Spencer. Because all of my friends think I'm the biggest nerd in the world because I have something similar. What do you have instead of an ink stamp? I've got one of the things where I'm having a brain problem.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Press it presses a crest onto my book that says, from the library of Mark Kenyon. And they think I'm a total goober. So thank you.

[Phil]

My wife has one of those for.

[Cal]

Joining me in this.

[Spencer Newarth]

So this is one of my favorite gifts I've ever gone. It's Smokey the Bear telling everyone that that is my damn book. All right, that brings us to the end of the show. Let's get some final feedback from the listeners. Phil, what's the Chad have to say?

[Phil]

Yeah, we got a question from Mark says we started planning out an Alaska caribou hunt in five years, and this new bill is putting a wrench in it. My dad says we shouldn't hunt them because we'd be putting additional stress on the herd. And then he followed it up with just, like, general thoughts from you guys.

[Mark Kenyon]

Man.

[Cal]

The porcupine caribou herd, which is the herd here in the refuge where this is happening, is one of the only caribou herds that's not in decline right now. Most others are plummeting. This one has been doing pretty decent at the moment. But this could change things. I mean, it could. We just don't know yet when all this is going to start happening and what that's going to look like. So I guess I'm going to put my faith in the Alaska fishing game and hope that they are going to adjust tag allocations if. If things start going nose down. But I would be keeping tabs on it.

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, and the other thing is, like, people need to go up and see this area and have these adventures. Once you do, you can't think, oh, man, this would be Bella better if we were developing it for anything other than what it's constantly doing, which is, you know, creating unbelievable amounts of life. Right. So I think it's important that you go on that hunt.

[Spencer Newarth]

Also, a lot can change in five years. A lot can change in six months, which is about the amount of time that it's taken for this big, beautiful bill to happen for the Trump administration. Also I think probably one of the hardest parts for people to plan an Alaska hunt or trip is just saving the money. So, I don't know, keep. Keep planning that trip for five years from now.

[Cal]

Yeah. And there's. There's a heck of a lot of stuff to do up there. Even if the caribou hunt doesn't happen for one reason or another, there's amazing rafting opportunities, hiking opportunities, backpacking, bird watching. I mean, see it one way or another.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yep.

[Phil]

Carl asks Spencer, what's your favorite bar in Yankton?

[Spencer Newarth]

Oh, glad you asked, Carl. The Ice House. That's. That's just like a classic answer. I think everyone who's been to Yankton and been to a bar there, that's their favorite bar. It's right next to the Missouri River. You've got great scenery. And then when you finish your drink, you, you or you order a bottle, of course, you get to smash that bottle against the building underneath their patio. It's very satisfying experience. It's very motivating to have that next beer.

[Cal]

Not into recycling there, huh?

[Spencer Newarth]

Recycling it right back to the earth under that porch. What else you got, Phil?

[Phil]

Jeremy says, question for the crew. I'm about to take a mate in his first real hunt. Do I put him up front and give him the best cracker? Is a watch and learn approach.

[Mark Kenyon]

Better feel it out. Very dynamic situation. The. My only thing that I would tell you have to do is, is put that person in a situation where they can try to make their own informed decisions. You know, it's just not very impactful if you are doing all the hunting and then you're like, hey, pull the trigger. Right? You gotta put them in a position to where they start learning the hunting and have to make some of those decisions along the way.

[Cal]

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with that. I would also say, I mean, it depends on what their exposure is to the experience preceding this one hunt. Like, if they have. If they're coming right off the couch and have done nothing out here like this, I would say that's probably. It'd be a lot to throw you right into the fire right away and tell you, hey, you're hunting. Shoot. Might be worth letting them tag along for a while, but I've had plenty of times where someone's been exploring these things on their own. They've been dabbling, they've been testing, they've been watching, they've been thinking about it, and they just need someone with them for that final step to really go on a real hunt. But they've been slowly getting there. In that case, then, yeah, give them those opportunities. But I agree with what you're saying, Kale.

[Spencer Newarth]

Yeah, I think when I'm with an inexperienced hunter, one of the top things I notice that they struggle with is the speed of things. Whether it's like, now you have to be really slow and, and like, treat each one of these moments like it really matters, or now you got to go really fast. Like, you got to make a decision. You got to get to this spot. You have to, like, do this next thing. So I think if you can get them to tag along and just watch and, and try to get a feel for. When things need to be slow, you go slow. When things need to be fast, you go fast. It's just going to put them in a better position.

[Phil]

Go do a couple more. Where was the one? Oh, yeah. Nate asks.

[Spencer Newarth]

He's.

[Phil]

Well, first, he says he's chasing his first buck in South Dakota this year. What time of year do you know a buck is looking like it's going to be a big one? Is there a saying, like, with corn Knee High by 4th of July, you.

[Mark Kenyon]

Guys should come up with one right now.

[Cal]

You know, for me, usually in July, you're like, okay, that's probably going to be a good one. But really, once it. Once August hits, then you know, like, oh, yeah, like that. You know what a buck's going to be once August rolls around. And then by, at least, you know, places I spend time, by mid August, they're basically what they're going to be. They start hardening from mid August, from mid August on, and then peel velvet that first week of September, give or take, you know, a little bit. So, yeah, in July you're getting like, a general sense, like, oh, I think so. And then August, you know, so, yeah.

[Spencer Newarth]

In July, you're probably looking at antlers that have like a hot dog shape almost. They're, like, still bulbous. You'll have a good idea. I don't think you're going to be surprised if you get a buck on trail camera two weeks from now. I don't think you're going to be shocked in August at what that deer looks like. So you'll have a good idea.

[Phil]

Right now, just to follow up on the book talk, Spencer asks if anybody is reading anything good. Any book recommendations?

[Cal]

The Quiet World by Douglas Brinkley would be one I'd recommend. For anyone who's been intrigued by our conversation today. That book's all about the history of public lands and wildlife and conservation in Alaska. Fascinating. History of how the Alaska we know today came to be. The many battles like what we've been talking about today have been happening for decades and decades. Various iterations of it. Super interesting, very interesting characters. Many of the names that you've heard in podcasts on meteater or within films or wherever it might be. Stuff like Eldo Leopold, Bob Marshall, Olas Murie, John Muir, Theodore Roosevelt. All these people had a really integral part of Alaska's history as well that I think most people don't know. I didn't know a lot of this stuff even as someone who's written about this extensively. So fascinating and a pretty page turner of a history book. So that's the Quiet World by Douglas Brinkley.

[Spencer Newarth]

I'm on my 26th book of the year right now. It's Pirates Code. It's all about pirates. It's okay, it's fine. It's gonna be like a three and a half star book for me when I'm done, I think. Best thing I've read as of late. Ridgeline. We had Michael Punk on the Meat Eater podcast a few years ago. He also wrote the Revenant. That is a great work of historical fiction. Would recommend that to anyone who is interested in that subject matter. Also Wolf Island. I bought that book while I was at Isle Royale and I loved it.

[Cal]

Somebody to read list.

[Spencer Newarth]

Really fascinating stuff and a book always feels like it's stronger when it has a firsthand account. And this is written by one of those biologists who was one of the first people to work on the moose and wolf relationship of Isle Royale. It's a great read, especially if you're interested in that part of the world.

[Cal]

David Mech, right? Or Mech, something like that? Yes. M E C H. Yeah.

[Mark Kenyon]

Heck yeah. I just got the Warrior's Garden by Richard Ryan in the mail, so I'm gonna start digging, digging through that.

[Spencer Newarth]

My next book was actually recommended by Phil's wife, Adrian the Feather Thief. So I'm very excited about that one. Sure, that'd be interesting.

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh yeah, it's like a three day book.

[Spencer Newarth]

Good.

[Mark Kenyon]

It's a fast one.

[Spencer Newarth]

All right, that brings us to the end of the show. Thanks, Cal. Thanks, Marcus.

[Mark Kenyon]

Thanks, Spencer.

[Spencer Newarth]

See everyone back here next week.

[Cal]

Good time.

[Lake Pickle]

Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the eastern United States home? Or what caused the rise and fall of Bobwhite Quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the Bear Grease Feed on Meat Eaters podcast. Nick Network Together, we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. After all, you can't love what you don't understand. Search beargrease on Apple, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University.

[Spencer Newarth]

Now this is an I heart podcast.