Ep. 737: A Life Changing Hunting Experience in Africa

Summary

Episode Summary: Ep. 737 - A Life Changing Hunting Experience in Africa

Title: A Life Changing Hunting Experience in Africa
Host: Steven Rinella
Guests: Morgan Potter, George Dodds, Corinne Dodds, Dirt, Seth
Release Date: July 21, 2025
Podcast: The MeatEater Podcast

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Introduction and Setting the Scene

Steven Rinella welcomes listeners to another episode of The MeatEater Podcast, setting the stage for a deep dive into his transformative hunting adventure in Africa. Joined by recurring guests Morgan Potter and George Dodds, along with other team members, Steven shares the excitement and challenges of hunting in a vastly different environment from North America.

The Allure of African Game

Superior Wildlife Quality

The conversation begins with Steven expressing his newfound appreciation for African game animals:

“Game animals are kind of better here” – Steven Rinella ([10:48])

Morgan agrees, highlighting the superior taste and quality of African antelope compared to North American species:

“They are just delicious” – Morgan Potter ([11:08])

Steven elaborates on the variety and abundance of game, emphasizing the antelope species' rich flavor and superior dining experience.

Key Species Encountered

• Cape Buffalo: The team focused on hunting old, post-productive males to maintain population balance. Steven notes the strategic selection process:

  “Chasing a dream. George was born in Kenya... making my way up the ladder.” – Steven Rinella ([02:02])

• Sable and Warthog: They successfully hunted dozens of sable bulls and warthogs, praising the meat quality and discussing the meticulous selection criteria to ensure sustainability.

Encounter with the Black Mamba

One of the most thrilling moments of the trip was an unexpected encounter with a black mamba, Africa’s most venomous snake. The team shares their adrenaline-pumping experience:

“We saw one of those... He’s cruising around... It’s the most crazy thing I've ever seen.” – Steven Rinella ([33:09])

This encounter highlights the unpredictable nature of hunting in the wild and the importance of maintaining vigilance at all times.

Hunting Equipment and Setup: The War Rigs

Custom Vehicles for Safari

The team discusses their specialized hunting vehicles, referred to as "war rigs," which are essential for navigating the vast and varied African landscape.

Morgan describes the Land Cruiser FJ78 modifications:

"It's a Land Cruiser FJ78 that's rigged for hunting... elevating platforms above the cab..." – Host ([23:00])

These vehicles are equipped with enhanced suspension, elevated seating for better visibility, and comprehensive storage for all necessary hunting gear, ensuring they are prepared for any situation.

Essential Gear

• Machetes and Slingshots: For navigation and defense
• First Aid Kits: Comprehensive trauma kits for emergencies
• Cooling Systems: To maintain comfort in the African heat

Wildlife and Ecological Insights

Biodiversity and Ecosystem Management

The conversation shifts to the incredible biodiversity of the hunting grounds, comparing it to ecosystems like Yellowstone. Steven marvels at the presence of over 20 species of medium to large mammals, including zebras, eland, impala, and rare sightings such as the African wildcat.

“It's like the Pleistocene is alive” – Steven Rinella ([49:39])

Habitat Management Practices

George Dodds emphasizes the role of controlled burns in maintaining healthy grasslands, which promotes new grass growth and supports game populations:

“We litten1.lit1 and realized that the road we were taking is a dead end... needs to be policed.” – Host ([64:16])

These practices are crucial for sustaining the delicate balance between wildlife preservation and hunting activities.

Cultural Interactions with Local Communities

Building Relationships

The team shares their positive interactions with local Tanzanian communities, highlighting the warmth and hospitality they received:

“They seem very comfortable in what they are and who they are.” – Dirt ([100:43])

Sustainable Practices

George discusses sustainable hunting and its benefits for local communities, ensuring that wildlife remains a resource rather than being overexploited.

“The reserve waters are an extremely important part of the puzzle because they refill the breeding...”

This approach not only supports conservation efforts but also provides economic benefits to the surrounding communities.

The Indispensable Role of Trackers

Expertise Beyond Comprehension

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to praising the native trackers, whose unparalleled skills in reading animal tracks prove invaluable:

“They see things that you can't see” – Steven Rinella ([74:40])

Morgan adds, “They’ve got great instincts on that stuff too,” emphasizing the trackers' intuitive understanding of the wild that goes beyond what can be taught or learned.

Trust and Teamwork

The hosts express immense trust and respect for the trackers, highlighting how their expertise ensures successful and sustainable hunts:

“You just have complete faith in their ability... they will redeem you in every way.” – Host ([75:28])

Sustainable Hunting and Wildlife Management

Balancing Harvest and Conservation

George Dodds elaborates on the importance of sustainable hunting practices, ensuring that harvesting game does not lead to population decline or ecological imbalance.

“Once everything's poached, populations are very low...” – Host ([93:05])

Combatting Poaching

The team discusses the severe impacts of commercial poaching and the ongoing efforts to prevent it through stringent regulations and active enforcement.

“Poaching winds up being a thing that can have like population level impacts.” – Steven Rinella ([91:14])

Personal Impacts and Insights

Life-Changing Experiences

All participants agree that the hunting trip in Africa was profoundly transformative, reshaping their perspectives on hunting, conservation, and cultural interactions.

“Life changing experience. I'll tell stories from here for the rest of my life.” – Steven Rinella ([108:14])

Morgan and Dirt echo these sentiments, sharing how the experience deepened their appreciation for wildlife and the importance of sustainable practices.

Culinary Discoveries

Steven marvels at the culinary practices related to hunting in Africa, noting the efficient and respectful utilization of game:

“Dry meat is a real commodity... turn it into recipes, you know, turn it into food.” – Host ([114:31])

This approach not only ensures no part of the animal is wasted but also highlights the cultural significance of meat preservation and preparation.

Conclusion

A Life Changing Hunting Experience in Africa offers listeners an immersive and insightful look into the complexities and rewards of hunting in Africa. From encountering formidable wildlife like the black mamba to the indispensable expertise of native trackers, the episode underscores the profound connections between hunting, conservation, and cultural engagement. The personal reflections shared by Steven and his team emphasize how such experiences can deeply influence one's understanding and appreciation of the natural world.

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Notable Quotes

1. Steven Rinella: “Game animals are kind of better here” ([10:48])

2. Morgan Potter: “They are just delicious” ([11:08])

3. Steven Rinella: “We saw one of those... He’s cruising around... It’s the most crazy thing I've ever seen.” ([33:09])

4. Steven Rinella: “They see things that you can't see” ([74:40])

5. Host: “You just have complete faith in their ability... they will redeem you in every way.” ([75:28])

6. Steven Rinella: “Life changing experience. I'll tell stories from here for the rest of my life.” ([108:14])

These quotes capture the essence of the episode, highlighting the enhanced quality of African game, the extraordinary skills of local trackers, and the profound personal impact the experience had on the participants.

Transcript

[Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Steven Rinella]

This is the Meat Eater Podcast. Coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We hunt.

[Morgan Potter]

The Meat Eater Podcast.

[Steven Rinella]

You can't predict anything.

[George Dodds]

The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for elk, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out@first light.com f I r s t l I t e.com okay, everybody, we're coming. We're recording in Africa. I'm pretty much African now.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, in the real sense of the word, like from Africa. I've been here so long, I've watched. I've watched a complete lunar cycle. Can you believe it?

[Host]

Yeah. It's impressive.

[Steven Rinella]

I came here on a. On a new moon. What's it called? I'm screwing that.

[Dirt]

Yeah. No new moons.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Yeah. Came here on a new moon. Watch that son of a. Get full. That's how long I've been here. Forever.

[Seth]

You watch the new moon get old and then it's getting new again.

[Steven Rinella]

I know. So long I've been here. It's a long time. Joined by. Morgan Potter is here today. And Morgan Powers, this is the third time you've been on the show.

[Host]

Third appearance.

[Steven Rinella]

You came on the show and basically, without meaning to, talked me into coming to Africa. Then you came on the show to get me up to speed.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

My upcoming African trip. And now you're closing it all out.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

By coming on the show again to do a debrief.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

All part of my cunning plan.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. And then tomorrow we start picking our way back home.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Also joined by George. And George, help. Help me with your last name.

[Corinne]

Dodds. D, O, double ds.

[Steven Rinella]

D O, W, D, S. Okay. George is from Morgan's. From. Morgan is from Australia. As a. As a young man, moved to Africa to get into the hunting thing.

[Host]

Yep, that's right.

[Steven Rinella]

Came here, like, did what now? Seems to me impossible. Came here, taught yourself, learned Swahili.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

In order to pursue your career.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

It's essential.

[Steven Rinella]

Climbed from the bottom up. Right.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

And did that.

[Host]

Making my way up the ladder.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Chasing a dream. George was born in Kenya. So it seems weird, like. Like in America, we really tiptoe around this thing of, like, you know, when you say, I'm a white Kenyan, people in America be like, what?

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

There's not many of us.

[Steven Rinella]

No.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He's a white Kenyan.

[Corinne]

Yep.

[Host]

Through and through.

[Steven Rinella]

Family's been in Kenya for many generations.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Many generations. Early 1900s.

[Steven Rinella]

Working. You work in the farm and ranch world.

[Corinne]

Working the farming and ranching world.

[Dirt]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

And yeah, spokeswaheeli from a young age. Quite lucky with that.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Corinne]

Made a lot easier for me.

[Steven Rinella]

And you're pursuing the professional hunting thing in that you are in your second year, your. Your second year internship to become a professional hunter, correct?

[Corinne]

Yeah, that's the plan.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. And a professional hunter means something very specific here. Explain professional hunter. It doesn't mean like you hunt, you know, and you make videos about it or something. Like a professional hunter is a thing.

[Host]

It is a thing. Yeah. We have to be licensed. So one has to complete a two year apprenticeship and then be endorsed by the company with which you've done your apprenticeship to then ultimately go sit your license, which is a practical exam. There's some theory and some other bits and pieces sort of tied in with that. And that's all monitored and supervised by Tanzania Wildlife Management Authority. If you get through that stage, then you're licensed to guide clients in Tanzania.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Host]

So. And that's, you know, even when you get licensed, that's kind of the beginning of the journey too. There's a lot of learning that. That'll sort of pursue you through your career. But yeah, getting licensed is the first step.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I'm being cautious about being too redundant. If you've been following along from home. You. You've heard all of our. Our five by now. Is that right? Five flop episodes. We did a specific flop episode with George about his upbringing. About why giraffes hate drones. No, elephants and me hate drones. And the. The lay of land with. With hunting in Kenya. Kenya move gradually. Not gradually. Kenya moving away from regulated hunting even to the point where no bird hunting anymore. George talked about a little bit of his hunting there. Grow or in his family's past. And then coming up to be a professional hunter in Tanzania. So if you want to refer back, you can check that out. Seth's here. Howdy. He's just looking next to him to dirt. Dirt's here. In love.

[Dirt]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

But we can't talk anything about who he's in love with.

[Dirt]

No. It's too great of a love.

[Steven Rinella]

It's too great of a love.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Dirt doesn't even want people to know. They're gonna think you fell in love here now.

[Dirt]

Maybe I did.

[Steven Rinella]

Dirt doesn't want people to know. Even he's so. He's so protective. I think he's afraid to get moved in on. He's so protective that he doesn't want people to know he was before the show began. He doesn't want people to know what country.

[Dirt]

This gal lives in. This gal lives in, I will say gender. She is a woman.

[Steven Rinella]

She is a woman. Okay, that narrows it down. Yeah. To like, roughly 51% of the global population.

[Dirt]

She's great.

[Steven Rinella]

So if you're looking to a dude next to you and you're wondering if that Whose dirt is in love with. Not other than that.

[Host]

Could be anyone.

[Dirt]

I wouldn't say if she's a dipper or not.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, is she a dipper?

[Dirt]

I won't say.

[Steven Rinella]

She might be a dipper. Tell she's a dipper.

[Dirt]

No, she's not a dipper.

[Corinne]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

So dirt's in love. He's very protective about wanting it. He don't want anybody to find out his, his, his. The love of his life lives a very private existence.

[Dirt]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Dirt doesn't want anyone checking in on her, talking about her, asking no questions about her. I have a quick thing to mention and then. Oh, also people in the audience today, Corinne is going to represent the audience's interests. So if Corinne feels that there's like a burning audience question, she's going to shout it out in representation of the audience. You follow me?

[Dirt]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Because Corinne has quite a list of things in her head that she wants discussed. So she's gonna jump in from behind the scenes there. It's. For many years now, we've done our annual Me and Giannis the Lavian Eagle. Every year we do our TRCP Turkey Hunt giveaway. It's that time of year again. The way the TRCP Hunt giveaways went in the past is we used to auction them off to the highest bidder. And it was observed by many that by doing that. And I'm not hacking on orthodontists here, and in fact, we had some orthodontists, but by doing that, it's like it's pretty much going to be orthodontists. Do you follow me?

[Dirt]

Yeah. High bidders.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, it's gonna be the. Or when you say, like, we're gonna auction off a hunt. Orthodontist perk up. Right. So we switched it years ago to a raffle so that any. Any schmuck, any Joe blow off the street guy like Dirt.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Can come win the hunt that's going on right now. So we've done them in the spring before, but this, it's a summer raffle to win the TRCP Turkey Hunt with me and Yadas. How it goes is you buy your ticket tickets Ticket. We. We pick a winner. The winner has a friend. The winner and, and the winner and his or her friend, all their expenses are covered.

[Host]

We.

[Steven Rinella]

We agree on a date that works for everybody in the spring, so it'll be this coming spring. We pick a date that works for everybody. We. It's three nights, two full days of turkey hunting. We always find a great spot to go. We cover your airfare, lodging, food, all expenses. If you need gear, we'll take care of the gear. If you need a shotgun, we'll bring you a shotgun to use. We. We get. We cover your ammo. Did I say license? You pay nothing. The, all that money, though, doesn't come out of the. The raffle pocket. The raffle pile of money, all that expense is covered by a donor so that when you buy a raffle ticket, all of your money, all of your raffle ticket money goes to trcp. Like, it all goes there. And then we cover all the expenses for the trip. We've done it a bunch of years. We have. Everyone that comes has fun. We've had. If you go on TRCP saying they got testimonials from past winners, those tickets are for sale from now to the end of the month. Crin, can you. Do you mind pulling up that. What that's called? I'll do it. Where you go to get these tickets? One second. You go. If you, if, if person wants these tickets, they go to. I don't know, man.

[Seth]

You could probably just Google TRCP Turkey Hunt giveaway.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, trc. If you search TRCP Turkey Hunt giveaway, then like, add in like meat eater or something like that. Oh, even better. Go to trcp.org and one of the main things you'll find on the homepage, there is a link to buy your tickets, then you win, and then we. You pack your bags because we're turkey hunting this spring.

[Seth]

If you, if you Google TRCP Turkey Hunt Giveaway, the first link that comes up is the turkey hunt giveaway.

[Steven Rinella]

That's good to hear.

[Dirt]

Nice.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, now begins the the great African recap. I have a number of things that we're going to touch on here. Top my list. And these are in no particular order, but top my list. We're going to kind of jump almost to the end by saying this. I remember growing up fishing freshwater fish, and I remember getting to an age where me and my buddies would start going down, we would like, drive down to Florida to fish in Florida and having it one day realizing that man, fish from the ocean taste way better. Just generally Fish from the ocean tastes way better than fish from the freshwater. I'm not, I don't think it's like me, dude. Like stuff. Game animals are kind of better here.

[Host]

Oh, definitely.

[Steven Rinella]

But it's not like a. I keep trying to ask myself, is it like a psychological thing? Because there's like a novelty to it, but there's just like a consistent, like the antelope species, the African antelope species, I think are, how I hate to say it, are like a better table fair than American servants.

[Morgan Potter]

They.

[Dirt]

I'd agree with that.

[Steven Rinella]

It's pretty good.

[Dirt]

Just as an eater.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Dirt]

It's phenomenal.

[Steven Rinella]

That's really what you're saying. You're saying like, because here there's so many species of antelope in North America. We have all these deer family servant species. There's just something about the, the, the antelope species.

[Host]

Yeah. Antelope are just delicious. I mean, I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to because it's.

[Steven Rinella]

I think it is. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. It's borderline sacrilegious. But it's settled science now because you're here and you've tasted them and no one can argue. I mean, let's use for example the warthog.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Host]

It's an old boar. If you ate an old boar, I mean, obviously I'm this, You know, wild pigs aren't native to North America. I'm aware of that. But you know, if you ate an old boar of any other sort of species of wild hog, I think you'd be somewhat disappointed. Especially in the way it was prepared for us, which is like a grilled loin.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

But it was exceptional and it was like better than the best store bought pork you could find. It was unreal.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that sort of is. It's pretty universal. And then as I always remind people, we're eating the old males here. We'll never know because they're illegal to hunt in Tanzania. But imagine how good the young females taste.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. That jumps us to a thing on my list is a little bit of the regulatory structure that I was surprised by.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

No. No female anything.

[Host]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

So even like a warthog.

[Host]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

Has to be a male.

[Host]

Has to be a male.

[Steven Rinella]

Zebras, which have very little, like visually very little sexual dimorphism.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Has to be a male.

[Host]

Has to be a male.

[Steven Rinella]

You got to wait for its tail to flick.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

That's one way to tell. Yeah. Otherwise, getting a good look between the legs there, that's about all You've got to work with. So.

[Steven Rinella]

And you guys have a management strategy on this. On this piece of ground we're hunting where you like basically your philosophy is you're. You're hunting things that are on death's door.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah. Yep.

[Host]

Ideally post productive males.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

So especially for our key species, buffalo and things like that, you know, there are certain times where we'll take a bull out of a herd for various species. But in general those will be balls that when we look at it we're like, that's actually a really old one. He's not going to hold on to that herd position much longer and it's not going to be a bad thing for a younger ball to come in and take his place.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. But yeah, I didn't mean to suggest it was like like crippled or. No, like you're like.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Looking for. You have an awareness of what is the. What are the sort of visual clues of an animal that's reached his.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

On the decline.

[Steven Rinella]

Not just peak, but reach like kind of the end of the line.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

In terms of horn growth, whatever. And that's who you're after. Males only. Old males only.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

Even in.

[Steven Rinella]

And that stuff is good.

[Host]

Oh yeah. Even in decline. As far as horn growth. Right. Like you'll have buffalo for example, like the one you shot that have worn down. You know, they would have been longer at a, at a earlier stage in their life. So that for us is ideal. That kind of is the, the cornerstone of the management strategy as far as offtake is old males that are post productive or can easily be replaced in the population.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. To get people a sense that what that search is like if you look at. So we hunted, we focused on hunting and we hunted for four different species of big game animals.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

We knew that like Cape buffalo was the primary thing we're after now. The experience, ultimately the experience we had hunting Cape buffalo was a little bit different because it's. You can sort of through things we'll get into when you. We're making episodes about all this so people be able to watch this stuff happen in real time or in real life, you know, but you can make hunting decisions that put you in a position where you're like targeting old bulls.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Like you can, you can go out and kind of specifically like where you go, how you go about it, what tracks you follow, where you're kind of dismissing the herds.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

In order to focus on like a, a lone animal or two animals you can determine are old.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So we were able to Go in and kind of like narrow our search a little bit. But on the other stuff we hunted, I would say that two huge examples stand out, like hunting sable and hunting warthog. I mean, we, we, we got the biggest of dozens, not just sable, but dozens of sable bulls.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep, yep.

[Host]

Correct. Yeah, we looked at dozens and dozens of them, and I couldn't get comfortable with more so the age than anything. There was a couple of balls that I felt were mature, but perhaps had some growing still to do. And then there were a couple of balls that I felt were mature but maybe a little unimpressive as far as horn size. And I felt that we could do better while also still getting an old animal. So, yeah, it was, it was something to where it's. It's an unusual experience. Right. It can be frustrating at times, too. I mean, I myself was frustrated on this hunt multiple times with just like, how many of these things do we need to look at before I see what I'm happy with?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, we would see a half dozen Warhol sometimes. Yeah. Because they're in groups. So since they're in small groups, half dozen warthogs a day. Oh, it became a running joke that Morgan's like, Mr. No, man.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. I became the. The crusher of dreams.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, I look at Breaker of dreams. Yeah, I look at him, I'm like, that looks like a spectacular specimen to me, you know? No, no, no, no. But all that stuff paid off, man. All that stuff paid off.

[Host]

Now it has a way of coming together. I mean, that's the wonderful thing about this place. You never know what's around that next corner. It's so vast.

[Steven Rinella]

Now that we've built up the hunting around here, we're going to knock it down because I want to talk, I want to discuss the black mamba.

[Host]

I knew it was coming.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I want to discuss the black map because we come out and I don't even know how we got on it. Somehow someone's aware of black mamas. George, really quick, just give people a quick primer on what is a black mamba.

[Corinne]

Black mamba is probably our most venomous snake that we'll sort of encounter out here. And he's. He's got a pretty mean concoction of venom. And you've got a pretty short window to. To get the anti venom and get help.

[Steven Rinella]

And then, I mean, come on, you got 20 minutes.

[Corinne]

I think by the book, I think, I think by the book, you've got a couple of hours. You've got three hours. If I'M not wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's about three hours.

[Host]

Probably depends where you get zapped a little bit.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

But, yeah, they're.

[Corinne]

They're pretty mean, and they. You know, they get a lot of fanfare because they're quite an aggressive snake.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, they're an attack snake.

[Corinne]

Yeah, they're an attack snake.

[Dirt]

The attack of snake.

[Steven Rinella]

Like the. Yeah, the only. Not. I don't know. Maybe not the only snake in the world. This is a snake. Not just that. You gotta, like, step on it to. To get it worked up. This is a snake that comes for you.

[Corinne]

Yeah, he's. He's pretty moody kind of guy. You know, you'll. You'll walk past him, and he'll just. He might be in a bad mood. Yeah, this is my hangout.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

You're not welcome here, buddy. Move along.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, if you want to see a great bit on the. A great bit on Black Mamas, it's fictional, but if you get into the Kill Bill series. Kill. And Kill Bill 2, which is largely set in the desert southwest, Michael Madsen, Rest is rest in peace. Died while we were here in Africa. Michael Madsen's character gets killed by a black mamba in the possession of Daryl Hannah's character. And she. As he's dying, she runs. She has a little notebook, and as she's dying, she reviews some of her notes about the black mamba and gives a bunch of stats about black mambas as he's dying. So you could go watch that clip. Just type in Kill Bill. Black mamba. You can see it. So I never didn't think about it much. We somehow came up like, oh, there's black mamas around here.

[Dirt]

Yeah. Should we be aware?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Morgan's like, they're here. But, you know, odds are running into one. Yeah. Just not gonna happen. Yeah.

[Host]

Stupidest thing I've ever said.

[Dirt]

I really.

[Host]

I knew when I said it, too. I'm gonna live to regret this, especially. Yeah. I knew I was gonna live to regret it. And sure enough, I'm thrilled. On my face.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm thrilled that it happened.

[Dirt]

Cool to see what we saw.

[Steven Rinella]

So first we ran into Jabber Walker. No, that puff adder.

[Dirt]

Puff adder.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, we ran into a puff adder.

[Seth]

And that's Chill Snake.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. But we'll talk about that. I want to talk about that one, too, because it's. I mean, he was, like, totally minding his own business.

[Host]

Oh, yeah. He wanted.

[Steven Rinella]

But it led us to kind of a little bit, like, the. The thing that blew My mind about a puff adder, I. No American snake does this. Like when you see a snake out.

[Host]

His ass is snaking, doing an S shite.

[Steven Rinella]

Kind of perpetual locomotion via the S. Yeah, locomotion via the S. Yep. Right. Like a slither. A puff adder, which is another deadly snake, but you have a much bigger window, like a much higher survival rate with a puff adder, I gather. Yeah, that puff adder, he goes down the. He goes down. Exact straight line.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Like his, like scale.

[Corinne]

Yeah, it's almost like he's got like a track, like, you know, like, like a tank or something.

[Dirt]

Yeah, he just, he just would be like centipedeish.

[Host]

No, because I've got little legs. It's. What he's got is sort of his. His bottom layer of skin and his top, they sort of shuffle like that, you know, he sort of shuffles his. But he sort of shuffles his bottom layer of skin forward. His belly, if you will.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Not as easily as aroused as the mamba.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

Deadly bite and very, very rapid strike, but. Yeah, not as easily aroused as the mamba.

[Dirt]

Two, Two hits before a balloon pops.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. George saying he. He can hit a balloon before it pops. He can hit a puff adder. Can hit it twice.

[Corinne]

That's the.

[Host]

They.

[Corinne]

That's what they say. I don't know how true that is, but they are one of the fastest striking snakes.

[Steven Rinella]

And they're like an ambush snake.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

And that's, that's our most common cases in Africa is puff at a bite. Because they're ambush predators. They don't move particularly fast. So you might step on him. And if you step on him, he's going to defend himself and bite you. Whereas most other snakes, apart from the black mamba, they move off pretty quick.

[Steven Rinella]

So.

[Corinne]

But he's our most common contender for. For snake bite victims.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw one of those. We saw. We saw puff adder first. Like I said, just totally out in the road, but minding his own business. We saw a cobra. What kind of cobra was that?

[Host]

I think it was an Egyptian cobra. Only got a quick look at it.

[Steven Rinella]

He wanted nothing to do with this, nothing to do with us, so he just. Yeah, he split that off. But the puff adder or the mom. Sorry, the mama. We're in. Can you explain our. Our war rigs?

[Dirt]

Oh, they're sick.

[Host]

Yeah. So it's a. It's a Land Cruiser FJ78 that's rigged for hunting. So it has a lot of kind of custom metal framework on the back. So that there's places for people to sit on the back on kind of an elevated platform above the cab so you can kind of see out while you're cruising around. Aside from that, you know, we really enhance the suspension on those vehicles. They've got to take a lot of weight in the back. Like when we load a full buffalo in there, it's a lot of additional weight. So there's souped up suspension and. Yeah, a few other little mod modifications and adjustments to the vehicle to make it suitable for safari. But they're a wonderful, wonderful piece of equipment.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Loaded down with every kind of tool you can imagine.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, no, for sure.

[Steven Rinella]

A wide array of machetes.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Machetes, jacks, shovels, cold drinks.

[Dirt]

Slingshot.

[Steven Rinella]

A slingshot.

[Dirt]

We had nine.

[Steven Rinella]

All manner of chain and cable tucked into various compartments. They're war rigs.

[Dirt]

We had nine. Nine folks in our rig the whole time.

[Steven Rinella]

Right.

[Host]

Tables, chairs. What else have we got on George?

[Corinne]

Yeah, lunchbox.

[Host]

Yeah, lunchbox got a little. Well, we've got a bucket. Trophy lining. Yeah, trophy care. So we can do trophy care in the field if we have to. We've got hammocks in there.

[Seth]

Bunch of water.

[Host]

Yeah, bunch of water.

[Corinne]

Got a pretty serious first aid kit as well.

[Host]

Yeah, we've got a big first aid kit, like a trauma kit in case someone gets injured in the field.

[Steven Rinella]

At times a package of cookies on the dashboard.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Sometimes they go quit an entire trip through the cookies in two.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, the cookie.

[Steven Rinella]

That was like something that magically would refresh, you know?

[Host]

Yeah. The cookie supply dried up real quick with you.

[Dirt]

I gotta blame Adam on that, too.

[Host]

Was he feeding. Was he belt feeding him?

[Dirt]

No, I was, I was.

[Steven Rinella]

That was my, like, friendship. And we'll get in a little bit, but also a lot of matches. Yes, a lot of matches.

[Seth]

A lot of matches.

[Steven Rinella]

War rigs. And we'll. We're going to touch on those matches in a minute.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

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[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

That's a good deal. What the hell's that even getting at? Oh, so on the war rigs, the. The safari rigs, there's a. Over the cab is a storage area.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

But we would just have our camera guy, Chris Gill, or Dirt would usually sit up on that cab thing so they could film back and then swing and film forward as route. Having our adventures and Dirt, you cruise along and we'll sometimes cover. I mean, I never turned a tracker function on, but I mean, like easily 100 miles.

[Host]

Oh, yeah. In a day. No problem.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So we're. We're out on. We're out on a. Like a. A game reserve. That is. I. I keep throwing this out there just because I think it's easy for Americans to picture whether or not they actually can picture or not, but they can. They can sort of comprehend the scale. It's a couple million acres. Yep, a couple million acres. So the. So Yellowstone national park is just over 2 million acres. This is about 2 million acres. But it's joined up with a national park.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

Correct. We've got a boundary with a national park, and then the national park has a boundary with another game reserve. And so it's all kind of part of a big contiguous ecosystem.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. With a. With a major river system through it, with all these lagoons and swamps and stuff. And there's a. We'll call it a road network, but it'd be probably better for. For an American audience to understand. It'd be like. Like a trail network.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Like two tracks would be the Term I would used.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah. A two track network. Pretty impressive two track network that like is tenuous. The, the, the, the, the land will just eat the road.

[Host]

Oh absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

They have to be remade almost. I mean every year there's a lot of them that just go back to nature. You have to be rebuilt from.

[Steven Rinella]

Everything's got, there's a lot of, there's the Mambo, which is like a forest. There's a lot of wetlands.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

And the, the, the roads are extensive but, but tenuous and at times slow going. But you know, by using winches, using people pushing and pulling, filling in wet spots with some logs and brush and stuff so you can get around. You can do h, you know, 100 plus miles of cruising around and then as you choose, get out and walk to certain spots as well. But there's a lot of big openings you can kind of pull into or pull through and glass from the opening. So as you're cruising around, you're spotting game.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

All the time. Well, there's a little bit of midday doldrums.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

When you kind of kick it like anywhere hunting like, you know, that sort of 12:30 to 3:30 kind of sucks. Mornings are great, evenings are great.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

You spot a lot of game. And we had had this joke that dirt only can over the days, over the couple weeks, like dirt could now and then spot a warthog if it was in a 12 o' clock position.

[Dirt]

Because that's being aware of the branches at head heights too.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. He's watching for getting hit in the head by branches. And so as he's watching for branches, you would occasionally see a word. I'm getting this, I'm getting to our black mama story. I'm gonna tell my perspective because it was incomplete. And then dirt and share his, his perspective, what happened. So periodically, maybe once a day, once every two days, Dirt will gesture out front. He'll do like a, like a gesture and I'll know to look off. And I feel like I'm looking for whatever animal dirt sees out front. So we're cruising road dirt gifts like the, like the out front gesture. And I'm looking and, and as I'm trying to figure out what it is, dirt's gesture turns into him beating the top of the truck with his hand.

[Dirt]

Didn't know how to say stop in Swahili at that time.

[Steven Rinella]

He's beating the, he's beating the rat. And I'm still trying to figure out what's going on. And only then does it like a occur to me, because by that point dirt is trying to get off the top of the truck.

[Host]

He's crawling into, trying to like roll.

[Steven Rinella]

Off the cab into the like back of the truck. And then Dirk explain what, what he's seeing as this is taking place.

[Dirt]

Well, I was, I was looking for the warthogs out at 12 o' clock and I remember someone just, I think you guys talked about it like out of the corner. In the corner of my brain. I had heard if you see a black mamba, you don't want to drive over it because it will raise up and potentially smack you through the window.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Dirt]

Which in my mind was kind of fictitious, but it just stuck.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. We now would like hit a stick and the stick and jump up and hit the side of the truck. And I'd make the joke black mama. People are talking about they can dent trucks.

[Host]

Yeah, well, and they will. When you're in the back there, you're, you're quite exposed. And they were, you know, they do rear up as we saw.

[Dirt]

Oh, yes. I saw this big ass snake and it just kind of froze me up. And I was like, that's probably freaking black mamba. And we're about to drive over it. And I just couldn't use my words. We had been slapping the roof to stop for game and I just started slapping and trying to back up. And then that sucker. I'll let you take it back over. But was going away from us. It was going away from us. We were, I don't know, 15, 20ft. And at some point it became aware of our presence and busted up four feet. I'm saying I'm taking that to the grave. I don't know if that's true.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He was four.

[Dirt]

I mean, Chris could see him through over the hood, but yeah. Lifted up his body and came at us.

[Steven Rinella]

The only way I can describe it, I had no idea. Like I'd heard about him. I had no idea. The way I describe is that he's got like a Loch Ness monster.

[Dirt]

Yeah, totally.

[Steven Rinella]

Where he's like, you know, Loch Ness monster is down in the water, but its neck is. I mean, he's cruising around. It doesn't make sense mechanically.

[Dirt]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

If he's seven feet long when he's cruising around, three and a half feet of him are straight up.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But he can cruise around like that.

[Host]

Yeah. He can move still. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And we like he goes through the woods. Like he's like he goes through the woods at that moment. I'm sure normally they're sneaking along he's going through the woods. He's like. Like providing his own crow's nest.

[Dirt]

Yeah. And it's good that Morgan, before he reared up, you saw him and said, back up. Because if we weren't backing up, he would have came.

[Steven Rinella]

He looked like he was going to come on the hook.

[Dirt]

He was gonna come on.

[Host]

I don't think he would have, but you never know. You never know. But yeah, once we sort of started reversing, he. He moved off, fortunately.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

And then the guys were all gung ho to go and see if they could even more, which I very quickly put the kaiba on that. On that plan.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. And like, he. He, like, is going away. I didn't see him going away. I see him, like, coming at the truck and then he, like. It's a false charge.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And he leaves off in the woods. When he leaves off in the woods, he's still got his head up.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So you can watch his head going cruising like. Like belt buckle high cruise through the woods, man. It's the most crazy thing I've ever seen.

[Dirt]

Magic. Yeah.

[Host]

Intimidating.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, so weird. And it's another one of those things that happens now and then, like. Like, I remember, like, always hearing about lionfish, you know?

[Dirt]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And like, you know, you don't want to get hit by a lionfish, and you get hit by a lionfish and you're all worried about it and. But it winds up being, like, not that big of a deal.

[Dirt]

But you said it hurt like hell.

[Steven Rinella]

Hurts like hell, but not a big deal.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Like a bullet ant. People like, oh, watch out, you know, I'll get hit by a bullet, you know, And I got stung by a bullet. Not a big deal. But the more we get talking about these black mambas, dudes, like, big deal. It's your problem.

[Host]

No, it's a serious problem. You've got a serious problem. But I have to. I mean, I'm obligated to say that. Black mamba sightings, snake sightings in general here, relatively rare. We just had a really good run of them on this safari.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like, for better or worse, there's. There is an absolutely perfect parallel. There's a perfect parallel, and it is. Grizzly bears in the northern Rockies.

[Dirt]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Right. You guys spent all this time, you're around black mamas, you're, like, probably won't see one. Which I gather is totally true. We covered hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles and walked all over hell and drove all over hell and saw a grand total of one Yep. Okay. He did not bite anybody. Right. So, like, non issue. But for people that are sort of like, what now? What's this now about this thing? You know? And you see it. It, like, it was not. You can't bucket it in close calls at all.

[Host]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

It wouldn't even. It doesn't even. It didn't even deserve, like, close call relegation. But it was just like a shocking. I guess the thing that was shocking to me was the snake athleticism. Yeah. And aggression athleticism. The idea that a snake would ever decide to, like, be like, I'm gonna like, I'm taking on this Land Cruiser, dude, and I don't care.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

No, it's an unusual. It's a wild set of behavior. Yeah. Behavior for a snake. Yeah. For sure.

[Steven Rinella]

But we saw one.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[George Dodds]

Like, I don't want to over blow it to people.

[Steven Rinella]

Be like, oh, my God, you're gonna get killed by a black mom. Because that stuff's annoying. Like, people think they're gonna get killed by mountain lions, killed by bears, and they're going to get killed by everything under the sun. It's not going to happen. Nothing happened to us. George, you ever been killed by a black mamba?

[Corinne]

I'm still here.

[Steven Rinella]

Dude was born in the bush.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Across the border and grew up on a ranch. He's still alive.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Yeah. They get. They get a lot of fanfare because.

[Host]

They'Re just different, which is like the grizz.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, the fanfare. Yeah. It be like the. Yeah. Back to the grizzling. Let's say you see a grizz and, you know, and he takes five steps towards you before running off. That sticks with you for the rest of your life. Yeah. And people that know bears be like, that bear was no risk to anybody.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He wasn't. He wasn't serious. He was wondering what you were and he ran away.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But in your head, you're like, good Lord.

[Dirt]

Yeah. It's personal.

[Steven Rinella]

It's a grizzly charge.

[Seth]

Today on our. On our cruise, we passed some water and there was a crocodile in there. And I wasn't aware that the Swahili word for crocodile is mamba.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Seth]

It was like, mama.

[Steven Rinella]

Mama. Oh.

[Host]

And everyone was so excited to see that.

[Steven Rinella]

Mama.

[Host]

Everyone was so ready. And I had to put, like, pour cold water on it. No, it's the Swahili word for crocodile.

[Dirt]

And mambo means hello. Right.

[Host]

Jumbo is. Jumbo is sort of. Yeah. It's a form. They're both forms of greeting.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

One's Very informal, and one's sort of a little more formal, but mamba.

[Steven Rinella]

I think the only Swahili word I act for animals that I actually got was mbogo.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

The buffalo.

[Host]

Buffalo, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

It's a good one. Good one.

[Steven Rinella]

To know a lot of those. Yeah. You always feel a little out of the loop.

[Seth]

Oh, yeah. So which points?

[Steven Rinella]

They say a word, and you're always gonna be like, now what?

[Host]

Now what is it? I try to be pretty quick on the draw with the translation.

[Steven Rinella]

You do a great up. You do a great job.

[Host]

Well, there's nothing worse than sitting there and you haven't seen it, and you're wondering if it's like your target species is a good one, and, like, we're chattering back and forward without you even knowing what.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

What's there. So it's. It's critical, but, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You were quick to point out today, there's, in fact, not a black.

[Host]

In fact, I'm not a black mamba. It's a crocodile where it is.

[Steven Rinella]

I want to hit. I'm gonna back out of my notes that I got open. I'm. I'm gonna run through. This is against my better judgment to run through our. Our list because it's so damn long.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, who would have a tension span long enough to hear what we ran into?

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I suspect it's incomplete, too. So let's give it a.

[Steven Rinella]

Let's give it a listen to this. Now. I got the 10 game animals and got bored. I'm gonna do them all. I was trying to tell people how many are on the list.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. A common reed buck. That's the whitetail deer.

[Host]

Yeah, they. They.

[Steven Rinella]

It's a whitetail.

[Host]

Sure.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. It has horns.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Runs through the woods like a. Like it. The whitetail deer and this animal took totally separate paths and landed at a very similar group.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

Convergent evolution brought them together.

[Steven Rinella]

They split at about the same time. Like, you know, you catch him, he's like, whoa. Takes off. He's got a little tail. Just different. Yeah, Totally different.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Coloration, just. Yeah. I kept. We kept Joe. I think maybe to Morgan's annoyance, we kept joking about how much they reminded us of whitetail deer.

[Host]

No, no, I see. I see the similarity, but he's.

[Steven Rinella]

Is it an antelope species?

[Host]

It is an antelope.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. He's got a horn.

[Host]

Yeah, he's got a horn. And they're beautiful. I mean, they're gorgeous creatures. I really enjoy them.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw a bunch of topi.

[Host]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Many hundreds of hundreds of topi which are you know how you explain a man crazy looking animal. They like being around the river flats, the water game, open plains. What are they a couple hundred pounds?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. Something in that range. A couple hundred 250 something like that.

[Steven Rinella]

A big bull.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I will put it like most people who watch grew up watching nature documentaries are familiar with a wildebeest.

[Host]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

There's a couple animals that to me had a wildebeesty vibe.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. That sort of higher front and that sort of rocking gait. Yeah you could certainly say that's true of Toby. They're a little small, a little less sort of boxy than a wildebeest. They're in that kind of harder beast family. Beautiful animals again.

[Steven Rinella]

So these are things like we had. We weren't if we were hunting we would have had a hell of a time. Oh sure yeah we would. Had a lot of opportunity.

[Host]

Oh absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

The reed buck is an animal that like seems that's going to take some doing.

[Host]

Yeah Especially early season here with the high grass. The reed buck have got a lot of places to hide. They. They're an open plains thing too. Those you know we call them boogers. You know those open areas where there's just sort of more sparse vegetation. It's not the forest proper. There's kind of an edge habitat there. They like that. Edge habitat. So they'll be in those in Bogas but this time of year unless the grass has been dealt with through burning they're extremely difficult to spot.

[Steven Rinella]

Edge habitat you say?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Morgan Potter]

Huh.

[Steven Rinella]

Once again whitetail deer.

[Host]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

The Lichtenstein heart of beast. Quite an abundant critter.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

Lichtenstein's heart of beast.

[Steven Rinella]

Very abundant here and in a coloration that really just says here I am.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

That sort of rusty brown.

[Steven Rinella]

That's like a. That's a beginner's if you want to spot animals that's a good beginner's animal.

[Host]

Yep. The white rump.

[Steven Rinella]

You'll see white running reddish body. You're like there's one.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Host]

Very.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't do that. I go what's that?

[Host]

Very wary, you know very, very keen eyesight. A very worthy species to hunt. I enjoy them a lot.

[Steven Rinella]

The defasa water buck which has if you ever see a deer on a super cold when they're one deer in the winter put all their hair. Puff all their hair out the way some birds do. Like he's just trying to keep warm. Puffs all his hair out like that.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

The water buck.

[Host]

Yeah they've got a very Coarse hair.

[Steven Rinella]

Bush buck sable.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Which we hunted for.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

A this is like one of the most kind of like holy looking of the animals. The bulls. We're hunting sable. The bulls turn black.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

Jet black.

[Steven Rinella]

I mean black like a black horse is black with a mane and then like an outstanding set of horns.

[Host]

Yeah. Exceptional.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

Really impressive.

[Steven Rinella]

40 foot sides coming out of their head.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

40 inch? I wish.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. 40 inch side that's coming out of their head. Like a really like. Wow.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Looking animal. And the fact the females are reddish.

[Host]

The females are reddish brown. Rusty. Yeah. Again rusty brown.

[Steven Rinella]

Nile crocodile, which is a game animal because if you buy a hunting license is on your hunting.

[Host]

Correct.

[Steven Rinella]

You can hunt crocodiles.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw at night, driving at night. We saw a leopard and also saw a lot of leopard tracks. We did but one we got lucky. Probably real lucky.

[Host]

Real lucky.

[Steven Rinella]

And a female leopard came out and boogie down the road in front of us.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And at one point Morgan doesn't want to be quoted on this but we're talking about leopard. So leopard is a mountain. A little bit, I would say like a little bigger than a mountain lion. Right. So in this area, in this area you see males that are what? 160? 170.

[Host]

Yeah. A big male would be that. One hundred and sixty. One hundred and seventy. Somewhere in the middle there.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. So it can happen with like that can happen with mountain lions but in some areas their top end kind of passes up the mountain lion top end. But an interesting thing about leopards. So leopards are spotted like a jaguar. But there are so many. There's such a denser like there's so much more abundant on the landscape. The mountain lions.

[Host]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

Much smaller home range. There can be many of them in the area.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Because there's a lot of game.

[Morgan Potter]

Exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

And it's much more like, like when you're out in this area they're, they're just around like right now around our, our leopards. These guys commonly hear them at night.

[Host]

Yep, absolutely. Yeah. They walk right through camp sometimes.

[Steven Rinella]

So we saw one lot of dikers. Lot of dikers, which is a little shit. And how many pounds is that diker?

[Corinne]

20 pounds. A bit more. Maybe 30 pounds.

[Host]

No less.

[Corinne]

Even less.

[Host]

Somewhere in that 15, 20 range, I'd say maximum.

[Steven Rinella]

And when you see him, he's usually moving.

[Corinne]

Yeah, he's out of here.

[Steven Rinella]

He's 12 foot leaps.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. They're very agile.

[Steven Rinella]

Clip springers.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Which is a little diker like rock.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

Very specialized antelope. They like to hang out on rock out crops. They've got specially adapted little hooves with kind of a leathery pad on the bottom so they can kind of hop around and get really good traction on the rocks.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I would say. All told, we saw, I don't know, 30 dikers.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And saw the grand total of one who stood still for one moment.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah. Yep.

[Host]

There was one that stood still.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Giraffes. Not a game animal.

[Host]

Not a game animal.

[Steven Rinella]

Tanzania. It's the national animal. It's our, it's our bald eagle.

[Host]

Correct.

[Steven Rinella]

Or now we have a national mammal, the American bison. But let's go with the bald eagle analogy because it is very much that thing.

[Host]

Very much.

[Steven Rinella]

But lots of them. Lots of daily occurrences.

[Host]

Very much so, yeah. Very abundant in this area.

[Steven Rinella]

Warthog. We'll talk about that. Cape buffalo we saw and got a roan, which is sable. Like we covered off on sables. But the Rhone bulls are roan color or tan color. Yep. A little bit, kind of. Maybe a little bit of a heavier horn. Much shorter.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

Heavier horn. Slightly shorter. And a bit of a stockier body than a sable.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Like a small, like, like a, I don't know, man, like it's like the height of a small mule.

[Host]

Absolutely. Yeah. They're tall.

[Steven Rinella]

Baboons all over the damn place.

[Host]

Lots of them.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw greater kudu.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw lots. Yeah. Not lots. We saw maybe over a dozen zebras.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah. Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw a oraby. We saw an orabi and a male orbee.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Dirt]

Was that that little guy at the.

[Steven Rinella]

Little guy, which I had never heard of.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And I was told it was a fine specimen, but I didn't feel comfortable shooting something I'd never heard of.

[Host]

Much to our dismay because they're delicious and it was a particularly good specimen.

[Dirt]

But tiny again. Right.

[Host]

Like, yeah, small adult. Little longer in the leg than, than your diker. A little longer in the body too. And, and the neck as well for that matter. But they're, they're a very pretty, pretty animal. Again, they hang out in those in boogers.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw eland.

[Host]

We saw eland.

[Steven Rinella]

Couple we saw today, one we hadn't seen yet.

[Host]

Impala.

[Steven Rinella]

We saw an impala.

[Seth]

Oh yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

There's probably more stuff we have.

[Host]

Well, hippo, if we're collectively, that's a game animal too.

[Steven Rinella]

Right down impala.

[Corinne]

A couple of vervet monkey.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Hippo. We saw a number of very small cat species.

[Host]

We did. Yeah. We saw janet cat, an African wild cat, which is rare.

[Steven Rinella]

And then we saw what's that little bugger that was out running out.

[Host]

Yeah. That was a big deal. That was very cool. That's a very rare sighting. We got extremely lucky on this safari with like headlight spottings of just cool and unusual animals that you don't typically run into.

[Steven Rinella]

So we saw, we're talking about. With the exception of the now crocodile. We saw over. Here's the point. We saw over 20 species of like medium to large size mammal game species.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And it's like this, it's this very obvious point that, that you could have said it to me and I would have like intellectually accepted it. But you have to live it be like, like the Pleistocene is alive. All when we're talking, whenever we sit around and we do it often on this show, we have anthropologists come in, paleontologists come in, archaeologists. We kind of marvel about like the megafauna, the extinctions of the megafauna in North America.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Right where we lost the horse, we lost all these different like giraffe species. We, you know, we lost our elephants. Saw a lot of elephant tracks. But some weirdly.

[Host]

Yeah. I was very surprised.

[Steven Rinella]

As big as they are. Like, we saw elephant tracks a lot of days. We cut elephant. Yeah.

[Host]

The tall grass again was not. And you'd be amazed at how well they can just melt into that tall grass.

[Steven Rinella]

And another thing I've heard a lot of people mention in my readings that people talk about that you sort of like not seeing the forest for the trees a little bit.

[Host]

Very much so.

[Steven Rinella]

People be like, you're 30ft from an elephant. And also you realize there's an elephant because it's just like not in the.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

It becomes like the lands. It's not, it's not an animal on landscape. It almost becomes like the landscape people talk about does.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And thick stuff it.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

You also realize, like, oh my God, there's a ear.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You know what's in front of them is an elephant.

[Host]

Yeah. Gray tree trunks sort of with the gray hide it. They are deceptively difficult to spot.

[Steven Rinella]

It'll seem wild to people. But passing a, like going by a giraffe, you, you also. It's. It's in plain sight, but you don't see it. You read it like you read the legs like trees.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because you're looking for like. I don't know. I'm looking for, you know, being. Especially being a hunter from America. I'm looking for like, I'm looking for. That's about £150.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And you, you know, which Is about yay high. Right. Sits about like, yay high at the shoulder.

[Host]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

Belly button high at the shoulder. And so you get, like, when you're out on the hunt, you have a. A sight picture and you're not realizing that four of those trees are like giraffe legs. Yeah, it's. It. You can't explain it until you live it. But you just. You look through them.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, you do. They. They are very, very well camouflaged. When they stand still, they kind of just. They blend in and that kind of the pattern they have just breaks up their outline so well, they're impressive to this.

[Steven Rinella]

To this place. To see an extinction point. It'd be like the richness of. Of what's here that you have so behind us right now. Somewhere out here, we saw that. We didn't see one, but we saw a lot of the tracks. You have lions, leopards, and then a host of small cat species.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

You have a hyena. So now in, like, it's not. It's probably not even technically a canine, is it?

[Host]

But like, no, it's not a. Not a true hyenas.

[Steven Rinella]

Jackals.

[Seth]

Oh, we saw a jackal add that to you.

[Steven Rinella]

I didn't put that up. We saw it. Yeah.

[Dirt]

Would mongoose go on the list too, or.

[Steven Rinella]

No, no, that's like a weasel equivalent. They're adjacent to, but then like dozens of species of horned. Dozens of kinds of horned animals.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep. Yep.

[Host]

The biodiversity here is incredible. And the specialization is the thing that always impresses me. You'll find the clip spring is a great example. An antelope that's adapted just to live on rock outcrops and graze the sort of surrounding margins of those rock outcrops, use them for shelter and to get away from predators. It's really impressive.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So you.

[Host]

Giraffe is another.

[Steven Rinella]

You might be like, on a big. You might be like, cruising along a big ridge top. Like a big flat top. Ridge top. And on it you'll get into area where there's outcrops.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Then also shooting across the road is a cliff. You're like, you would point out, like he's. He's associated with that rock outcrop. Yeah, that's his little zone.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Dirt]

Did they.

[Corinne]

Did you get the kisi word for cliff springer?

[Steven Rinella]

No.

[Corinne]

It's pretty cool. Call them buim, which direct translation is rock goat.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, really? Rock goat. Okay.

[Corinne]

Yeah, pretty cool.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

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[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

Went and did an updated expanded life.

[George Dodds]

Insurance policy because you know, my wife.

[Steven Rinella]

And I are concerned about what would.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

Us like what happens with our kids.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

Months I've become friends with.

[George Dodds]

And my God, have I learned a lot about knives from this guy. Just a phenomenal hometown company that makes world renowned knives. Josh has been making knives for 30 years. You get one of these knives up and open it, it is sharp like something that came from outer space. And here's the deal. They make knives that can be sharpened.

[Steven Rinella]

You can work on these knives. If you don't want to work on.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

They'll get it sharp.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

We just did.

[George Dodds]

Me and John Hayes, the taxidermist just did a video about how to properly skin a black bear. Watch that video and in that video you'll see Montana Knife Co. Knives in action. MKC products usually sell out in minutes of being released, which is true. But now for the first time, they're dabbling with having knives in stock on their site. So right now you can grab yourself a Blackfoot 2.0 or the ultralight speedgoat. Use code Meat Eater and you get 10% off your first order. Montana Knife Company working knives for working people. 10% off with the code meat eater.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a good deal. There was a thing I had, like, I keep pointing out this thing too, like, maybe to the point of being annoying is you grew up on wildlife documentaries like out in the Serengeti.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Right, like, and I can see why. Like, if you want to film a bunch of wildlife, go there. Everything's wide. The grass is, you know, there's grass. You have scattered trees. You can just see all the stuff. Here you're in a lot. You're in forested country. Oftentimes you're in forested country. So you have in your head that you're going to have these like panoramic views of all of the stuff out mingling out in the open in the, in the forested area. It's very much like being, you know, it's like there's like deciduous trees here.

[Morgan Potter]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

A lot of times you're, you're in that environment where you're like, it's not this great abundance, it's just like scatterings of things, but they're different. But then today we had a, today we went out and do a big, I don't know what you can call it.

[Host]

Sort of a floodplain.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, like a big grass floodplain along a coursing, very swampy river. Like picture kind of river that's got crocodiles and hippos in it. And there's this mass grass flats coming off that. And there was a time where you're like, you're standing there and within a thousand yards of you are hundreds of animals.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep, yep.

[Host]

There was an impressive concentration of game down there. And that'll, that'll happen more and more as the season wears on. So one of the things that we've been up against on this safari, and we've kind of used it to our advantage a little bit, but definitely been somewhat hindered by, is that there's still a huge amount of water inside the miombo, inside the forest, there's little water holes. I mean, we saw a lot of them when we were tracking buffalo and tracking other game. You'll be kind of walking through the bush and then suddenly there's a bit of soil that's kind of low lying and there's standing water in there or there's a little spring that's still seeping from the rainy season that in a few weeks here will be dry or There's a rock. You know, a rock area where springs leaking into a rock and there's a collection of water. That stuff is definitely dispersing the game.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because a lot of animals don't need to go down to the river to drink. There's grass on those in boogas. There's grass on the freshly burnt sections. And there's little pockets of water that they can locate throughout the Miombo forest to where they don't need to concentrate on those floodplains. As those water sources dry up, you'll see a greater concentration of game later in the season. But certainly to your point about the Serengeti, this ecosystem doesn't have that kind of game concentration. It's naturally just a more dispersed, lower kind of. Yeah. Lower yield as far as numbers of game per acre or hectare or whatever metric you want to use. But nonetheless, the biodiversity is incredible.

[Steven Rinella]

It's unbelievable. But today we saw the mass. Amount we saw there was like. You could see looking out ahead of us, there's 40 Cape Buffalo, about seven zebras, hundreds of topi.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

And then there was a couple.

[Host]

There was some impala off there, and there's some waterbuck as well.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But like hundreds. Hundreds.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

Unbelievable.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, it was unbelievable. All mixed in.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

All mingling together, making noises. The bulls chasing each other around. It was impressive. It was a beautiful morning.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, you know, I was gonna mention we watched one water source go. I don't know if you remember the. When we got here, we went to shoot.

[Host]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

All these baboons took off at one baboon. Didn't realize all of his bodies left because he had his head down and out.

[Host]

He was having a drink in a rock.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Drinking. And I looked. I peered down in there the other day, and it's gone.

[Host]

Try. Yeah. Classic example.

[Steven Rinella]

So he's like. They. He lost his little water pocket.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

And something like that could support one old buffalo bull or a handful of other plains game species that would come in just for that amount. And so now that's gone, those have moved on to another water source. And that'll kind of continue to happen until a lot of stuff's concentrating around the permanent water.

[Steven Rinella]

One of the things that surprised me most. Grass fires.

[Host]

We got one going.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I'm saying I'm gonna. I don't know if you know, but I've told him I'm gonna try to get a job with Robin Hurt, and it's going to be chief ignition officer.

[Dirt]

You were going to be vp, I think.

[Host]

Vp of vp of ignition.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. He's going to have like a sort of an assessment role and monitoring.

[Host]

That's right, yeah. Yeah.

[Seth]

Oh perfect.

[Steven Rinella]

Sign me up in reading North American history, Native American land use, North American history. Like there's not, there's not many like landscape environmental historians that you can, that you can talk to about pre European history in North America that don't comment on the active quality of, of human caused wildfires on the landscape.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Even to the point where like this is kind of. I don't want to open up to, I don't want to open up too crazy of a thing here. But European diseases, when European, European diseases kind of like swept the landscape quicker than Europeans did when they, when they arrived in the New World. So north and South America, European diseases maybe, maybe killed as many as 90% of the humans that lived in north and South America. It's a, it's a debated thing. Like.

[George Dodds]

There'S, there's no way it was.

[Steven Rinella]

Left less than 50. There's like no one argues it was less than 50. Maybe as many as 90% of people by diseases. Climatologists can see in, in like you know, in like in glaciers and things that store. I'm trying not to go too deep into this picture. Glaciers where you have annual deposition of atmospheric conditions. You can dig a core and look.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Climatologists can point to when that happened, that bracket of years when the Americas were depopulated by a sudden and dramatic reduction in ash.

[Host]

Interesting.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

Makes sense.

[George Dodds]

People were burning.

[Steven Rinella]

People were burning and like you read and it's so hard to picture. You're reading about history like they'd burn to attract game. They'd burn to open up the landscape. Right. They burn for agricultural purchase purposes. You read about in the Great Plains. Like a lot of people talk about big fires, the, the, the, the, the Plains tribes, they're like oh no, they burned it all off to attract buffalo on the plains. That goes on here.

[Host]

It does, yeah. This is a fire adapted ecosystem. So same thing you can easily imagine and there is, you know, understanding the people that inhabited this place prior to let's say four to six thousand years ago is, is a pretty inexact science. It's not really clear exactly who was here and what they were doing, but you can easily imagine that they would have burned for all of those same reasons that we still burn today, which is getting rid of that excessive decadent grass that's of no value, feed value to animals and is difficult for them to move through and kind of navigate their Way through. It's, you know, it. It's clearing out the forest of fuel load. So you get a. A very cool, quick moving fire.

[Steven Rinella]

It doesn't damage through it?

[Host]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. No. Yeah. We've had to drive through it a number of times because we've litten1.lit1, and then realized that the road we were taking is a dead end.

[Steven Rinella]

Or you can kind of like stomp it out or go through whatever. Like, doesn't harm the trees.

[Host]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

Very slowly, very low heat.

[Host]

And when it's happening this time of year, we don't get rain. So you're not putting runoff into the rivers. And it's. We saw on the safari the way that fire helps the habitat and helps us as hunters. Kind of goes hand in glove. But the early part of the safari, we were burning furiously. I mean, anything that would take a match, we'd set. Set a match to it just to, you know, burn that decadent grass.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. That might hang a patch the size of where we're sitting. Yeah.

[Host]

Or it might burn 10,000 acres. You lit a couple of. Couple of beauties. Couple for the books. You should be. You should be. But then towards the latter part of the safari, we actually started to see that bearing fruit where we went places that we'd set fire to on day two or three, on day seven, eight, nine, and there was already regrowth green shooting grass and game.

[Steven Rinella]

Absolutely indisputable. Yeah. Yeah, indisputable. The game moves on. Like I was laying out a scientific experiment. I still want you to do.

[Morgan Potter]

Mm.

[Steven Rinella]

I want you to go in and mechanically clear an area.

[Host]

Mm.

[Steven Rinella]

Rake it.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Clip everything and scrape it out and then burn an area next to it.

[Host]

And see what the regrowth pattern.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like. Man, it comes back.

[Seth]

Well, the, The. A good example of that is the Runway strip.

[Host]

Yeah. That's mowed. Yeah.

[Seth]

You guys mowed it and.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Seth]

George was saying it. How they removed all the grass.

[Corinne]

Yeah, we rake it. So no. No burning on that. Stop the dust. So that's. Yeah, it's pretty good example. You could see.

[Steven Rinella]

And is it green up real nice?

[Host]

Not as well as the bird.

[Seth]

Not even close.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, there's something about that burning, man, where the grass, like, it's such a low. Like we're not talking about new grass. It's just the plants. The grass plants that are there.

[Host]

Reshoots.

[Steven Rinella]

Just all of a sudden go.

[Host]

Yep, reshoots. There's enough residual moisture in the soil. Not so much up here on these sort of rocky escarpments. Where we are now, a lot of that will stay burned until the new rains come in. But it's great to clear the fuel load out of here. So again you're protecting the forest. If you do get a hotter burn, it could potentially damage this beautiful canopy we've got up here. But down there, lower, in the lower lying areas, the residual soil moisture is such that when you do one of those burns, three, four days, you'll have fresh shoots starting to emerge. And it is it. As opposed to the raked area, it's brand new grass. Like it's got all. You can just see from looking at it the like the vitality, you know, it's so nourishing looking. It's like bright green and it's like tender. I mean and the games just want.

[Steven Rinella]

To be on it. Yeah. And the main point being for, for fell like me and Seth here is that you are transported to a time and place where anytime you feel like it, you can throw a match. Oh yeah.

[Host]

Not only can you, you're discouraged.

[Seth]

You're doing stuff all day long that you would be a felon for in Montana.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. You driving down the road. It took me a while to get used to driving down the road. And the trackers just be with matches behind.

[Seth]

We would, we would stop to take a pee break and you get out, take a leak and I'd strike a match and light whatever on fire and hop back in the truck and yeah, there we go.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, it was fourth of July. We got to burn all kinds of stuff. It was fun. Matter of fact, one of my prime rippers was 4th of July.

[Host]

That one was great. Was a good one. When we were driving out and seeing that whole hillside on fire, it was beautiful. It was pretty cool.

[Seth]

After shooting a buffalo.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Off the shoot. Next on my, next on my list, the T fly. Odd. Odd critter.

[Host]

Odd critter, terrible critter.

[Steven Rinella]

Flies normally last a day. A Tetsi fly, he gets a six month run.

[Host]

Lives six months. She gets a six month, she gets.

[Steven Rinella]

A six month run. Drawn to moving vehicles.

[Host]

Yes. They're very motion sensitive. They want to be where there's motion.

[Steven Rinella]

You know what I normally think about bugs? Like if you're cruising along, let's say you're back home and you're cruising along and you like, you know you're gonna stop and get out, right. If you drive along on a four wheeler or something or can AM and you're like, you're cruising along and you're like, eventually we're gonna Stop and get out. When we stop and get out, we're gonna get swarmed by mosquitoes here. They get you while you're driving. It's all flipped.

[Host]

Yeah. The opposite they give you while you're driving. They just stop and they leave and get you.

[Dirt]

Is like a serious app when they really.

[Host]

Okay, good.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Chris likened. He had fun. He said he likened to get in taste.

[Host]

Sometimes they do really touch a nerve.

[Steven Rinella]

But then, like, you. You get out and all a sudden they're just like, gone.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. They like fast. I don't know. There's odd bug and they're hard to kill. You got to really roll them a few times to get them.

[Host]

Got a pretty strong exoskeleton.

[Steven Rinella]

My program got. My program got way developed. Like you. Like Morgan. You wear a heavy gauge.

[Host]

I do.

[Steven Rinella]

You wear a heavy gauge material.

[Host]

Cotton.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. He wears like a heavy. Yeah. You'd look and be like that might be a little uncomfortable in the hot part of the day, but he's thinking because it's like super light, they can get through and eventually kind of got my whole program squared away up to the point where the only thing I wished I had now and then is a light pair of gloves and face covering. Yeah.

[Dirt]

I mean, the drivers are wearing jackets.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. For peak tatsy.

[Host]

The driver's seat's a bad place to be.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. We call it the fly box.

[Host]

The fly.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. The TT Chamber Tatsi teak. TTSI is like what, like. Like 5:34, 30 to 5:30.

[Host]

Yeah. They get a little peckish before. Before bedtime.

[Steven Rinella]

In the morning, they come in and you might be going through a bad spot, and they come in and say hi. But at night, they're like, ready to rip.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then it gets dusk and gone. Yeah.

[Dirt]

Yeah. Smokes help, too.

[Host]

Smoke helps.

[Seth]

Yeah. We did elephant.

[Host]

Elephant dung bucket. Yeah. You get a bucket or a small can and you put some elephant dry elephant dung in there, and it smolders. Very smoky, smoldering, kind of greasy fire. And it works. It puts them off.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, any kind of smoke puts them off. A breeze puts them off. Burned off areas they don't like.

[Host]

They don't.

[Steven Rinella]

There's not certain little pockets, though, where you become like, very aware of them suckers. And I was always re. And I knew him and read about them because how they used to be like a real. They used to be like a health crisis in some places. And they're like, for. For. Sorry. They used to be like a. Like a livestock.

[Host]

Yes, they still are.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, they are, they still are like a, like a lot like a major livestock.

[Host]

Oh, they'll kill livestock. I mean the, when you think about how much we get bitten on a day which is as extreme as it was for some of you guys and you know, I, it is what it is. It goes with the territory.

[Steven Rinella]

But he was saying we didn't see better than a. We didn't see better.

[Host]

4 out of 10 was the worst day we ever had. A 4 out of 10. 10 is spicy, let me tell you. Even for me and I have a high tolerance. But the, the game and livestock are just being bitten constantly. Constantly. So they do kill, they do transmit. Try panasonomiasis to the, the livestock. The game has a natural immunity. The livestock does not. So for that reason my relationship with the Tetsi is complicated because I see them very much as part of the guardians of this area and of these wilderness areas because if they weren't here, it would have been all too easy to just bring cattle in in the, in years gone by. Now obviously we have the wonderful protection kind of regime that we have, but you know, in years gone by when there was a bit more of a, you know, free for all as far as that stuff. You know, even during the colonial period and, and before these areas would have had a lot of livestock in them and we're lucky we don't.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. If you get into, if you go down the path and I think I'm just starting in and I'm going to do some more. But reading about early European explorers trying to penetrate into Africa, like you think that they're all getting dusted off by lions and stuff. They were dealing with earlier mentioned like European diseases going to the New World and people not being prepared to deal with them.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Europeans like 1800s, late 1700s, whatever. Europeans would come to Africa and insect born pathogens Absolutely flattened by them. Yeah. Would be like, that'd be like the thing that would get them.

[Host]

Oh it's when you read.

[Steven Rinella]

They didn't understand where it was coming from.

[Host]

No, no, there wasn't that knowledge of, of parasites and whatnot. And when you read the accounts and, and memoirs and biographies of those early explorers, they were constantly sick with the fever, you know and you know fever is kind of the catch all term they use. So you can extrapolate. A lot of it was probably malaria. Dengue is another one. Blackwater fever. I mean even, even stuff, you know, waterborne stuff too. That sort of all were under that catch all of fever. But they were constantly sick.

[Steven Rinella]

Morgan showed Us a tree they called the fever tree. And it's like down in some of the swamplands near the river, there's this tree that. It's kind of an inviting looking tree.

[Host]

It's very shady tree. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

And he's.

[Steven Rinella]

And people like traveling on the river, whatever would come up, make camp, and you'd go under the tree. And then they eventually all get sick. And he was saying they're like, there's something about that tree. Yeah. Not realizing that. Yeah.

[Host]

They sort of made all got malaria. False correlation between the tree. But it was like, you're right near the water, that's where the mosquitoes are. And so you wind up getting malaria.

[Steven Rinella]

One of the highlights of the trip for sure. You talked trackers.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

When, when we first did a show, one of the things that, that excited me about wanting to hunt with you is how respectful you were to the, to the job of the trackers. How you put a lot of credit on the trackers. Right, Absolutely. And how you also like you kind of put it not, not mystically, but you put like they understand things that you, you don't and won't never understand. Never see things that you don't and won't ever understand what you're looking at. To the point where sometimes when we're out, like you've just gotten to a point where you just take the word and you don't need to be like.

[George Dodds]

Well, show me what you're talking about.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, we're going. We were at one point tracking some buffalo and we're going along and I'm like, just, I don't see what in the world, you know. And I say to Morgan, I don't get what they're looking at. And he get. Morgan said, that's the point. They see things. Not that you don't won't. He said, they see things that you can't see.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And at the end of that trail is buffalo.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Every time it's just like, it's. And so you'll just. At times they'll be like, that's what's going on. And you're never like, well, show me the evidence.

[Host]

No, no, no.

[Steven Rinella]

You're just like, got it. Yeah.

[Host]

No, for sure. No, I'm way past that point.

[Steven Rinella]

You don't like, you don't go like, are you sure? Show me what you're talking about. I'm like, what does he mean, what's he talking about? What's he looking at? Morgan's just beyond that. He's like, it's Just what it is.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

That's just the truth. That's what we're doing.

[Host]

Yeah, it is. It is the absolute truth. I mean they. Yeah, these guys are brilliant. They are brilliant, brilliant humans in so many more ways than one. And you're. The tracking is, it's, it's masterful. I mean it's incredible thing to watch. But they're real hunters too.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh yeah.

[Host]

I mean they really like hunting tactics wise. I do. I bounce a lot of ideas off them. Oftentimes if I see one of the guys has got a concept of how we might complete a stalk, I'll run with it because they have great instincts on that stuff too. They're very, very sharp on the hunting piece, obviously the tracking piece and game spotting. They're second to none and like fun guys to be around.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Also just through the language barrier.

[Host]

Oh no, for sure.

[Steven Rinella]

100 just like ready to laugh and like.

[Host]

Oh.

[Steven Rinella]

Always just tuned in. There's a thing like this thing I marveled about and one of the ways I marvel about was families at work. Marveled about is. Is families that have for generations and generations been in livestock where I can't prove it. And it's like, I feel like there's some kind of science there that's not well understood. But if you came into it and I mean, but a rancher at all, but like if, if you came into ranching at like 20 or 30 years old, you're never going to catch up.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Steven Rinella]

There's something you can't put your finger about. Like I said, it defies scientific understanding. But like someone, a kid who's born into a livestock family sort of like through some kind of like genetic freakishness, absorbs a bunch of the knowledge.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So I mean like, like a little kid, like he's looking at a horse and he's seeing a set of things.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And you're looking at a horse and you see a horse.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Do you follow me? Certain things like that you just absorb and you're never going to catch them.

[Host]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

And there's like, it's like with the trackers, it's not like the knowledge of what track is, what is somehow in a genetic code, but there's just something about. You're not going to catch them.

[Host]

No, you'll never catch them.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, I mean, and it's like, it's like there's something about having. There's something about like the upbringing, the attributes that would have been necessary to like exist on the Landscape for a long time. There's just something that, like, it probably isn't taught.

[Host]

No, it's not taught. There's.

[Steven Rinella]

It's just, like. Notice I'm like, finding. I can't find the words for it. But you're not going to catch them.

[Host]

No, you'll never catch them there. I. My theory that I've kind of explained before is they're, like, both born and made. They have some inherent traits. I think a lot of it's probably what you're talking about. Just being raised. The environment they're raised in has kind of shaped them. They've obviously got excellent eyesight, which is something that's, you know, you're born with that, but they have a knowledge.

[Steven Rinella]

You guys are using the best of the best, too.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, you're not just grabbing guys off the street. No. You're using guys that stand out as, like, professional, exemplary. Like the best.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, they. They are absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

So among their peers, they're good.

[Host]

Oh, among their peers, they're extremely well regarded. I mean, they're. They're famous. They're brilliant. And I've always been fascinated by tracking and in. Not in the sense of like, well, show me, because I don't believe you. But a lot of times I'll ask to see what they're looking at. And I've been doing this for years and years and years, and there are a lot of times, probably upwards of 25 of the time I can't see anything. Like, I could not perceive that there is any change in the. In this, like, stuff that's on the ground. And they can say, no, that's, you know, it's walked there, there, there. So it. It's a beautiful thing to watch and I'm so glad that we got the opportunity to apply it to things other than just Buffalo. We tracked a warthog for a while. We tracked Sable for a while. What else do we track? I think that was kind of it, that in Buffalo.

[Steven Rinella]

But yeah, they're also. When it's not going to happen, they'll come and tell Morgan, like, ain't gonna happen.

[Host]

Yeah, no, for sure. No, he started running again and it's not.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah, that. Yeah, that happened with some point of diminish. We'd already bumped something. We bumped it twice.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Sable. So we bumped them.

[Host]

Bumped them again.

[Steven Rinella]

Kind of like very light bump.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then we did, like, a little bit more of a bump. Then we filed and then they're like. They're running again. Like, it's not Worth it.

[Dirt]

All based on track.

[Steven Rinella]

Never mind. Yeah. Just based off track.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

A really, A really great moment too with the trackers is one time we're going down and they spot a track from a truck. Someone spots a track. And I still don't really understand what they saw. But oh, no, I do know there's like a broken piece of grass, whatever the hell, and we get out and they very quickly, like there's happens. We got two trucks together. So there's four trackers. And they very quickly come to a consensus. No dissenting voice. There's four bulls going that way. I'm like, what? Come on. So at that point I said, morgan, help me out here. What are they talking about? Why they all know that there's four bulls, you know, and this is in like eight foot tall grass.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

They're like one's here. One was here, one was here, one was here.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And I'm like, okay.

[Dirt]

And there was.

[Steven Rinella]

But there was like very little. It was like a very. I mean, we're talking like minutes. Yeah, minutes.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. No, you have to have complete faith. And they are the most faith worthy people that you'll ever find. I mean, faith in their ability, faith in their loyalty, faith in their desire to see you be successful. You can, you can have that and you will not be disappointed. Like they will, they will redeem you in every way.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, another. Really? There's so many things to mention. Like the way they read grass, like grass, it's been bent.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Grass has been stepped on. How to tell how long ago grass was stepped on? But also what's really cool is there's these birds. Oxpeckers.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

They like a lot of animals. And they like buffalo.

[Host]

Yeah, they seem to like buffalo the most.

[Steven Rinella]

And a real awareness of like what's going on with the oxpeckers. Like at daybreak where the oxpeckers were headed to.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then that one time we got in that real tall grass and they were like pinpointing. We knew they were out in front of us somewhere. And just by the bird chatter.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Host]

They could hear that.

[Steven Rinella]

The oxpecker chattered like pointing like right there. Yeah, right there. Because you can hear the birds. They can hear the birds that are on them.

[Host]

Exactly. Chattering back and forth between us.

[Steven Rinella]

It was fascinating.

[Host]

That's amazing. All the little cues that they use to, to just read these animals is. Is amazing.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, the honey guys.

[Host]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

There is a. There's a type of honey production that goes on. It's in the farmland. It's in the woods, whatever. There's a type of honey production that goes on. It's really interesting where it's like instead of having a honey hive that you buy like that you populate with honeybees.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Farmers and others, guys out in the woods will just build a. Out of natural materials, build a hive box and hang it way the hill up in a tree.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

And it'll draw.

[Host]

Yeah, it'll be colonized.

[Steven Rinella]

It'll draw a colony of bees. And it's like you're running a trap line.

[Host]

Yeah, very similar. Very go out and I liked those parallels.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, you go out and you like see if it got taken over by bees. Guys will climb way up in the trees. There's a honey season here. You can explain. Yeah, that's wrapping up right now.

[Host]

Yeah, we're right at the tail end of it now. So it's. I think it's twice a year they come into the game reserve under permit from the district, supervised by U.S. and Tanzania Wildlife Management Authority to. To harvest their own honey from their own hives. And we've placed a lot of stipulations on their activities as far as what roads and routes they can use, what kind of equipment they can use, what kind of vehicles they can use to access the area and the hives themselves. As you saw in the past, the sort of popular method of manufacturing a hive was to like ring bark. Basically take all the out outer layer of bark in a sort of anywhere from 3 to 4 foot long section off of quite a large tree. Let's say something that was sort of, you know, close to 20 inches around and then, and then sort of staple that back together with pieces of wood with pegs and then put end caps on it. And that was the hive the problem.

[Steven Rinella]

Hang it way. So honey badgers don't get it.

[Host]

Exactly. So yeah, honey badgers and other things that would interfere with it. They'll hang it up there. And the problem with that was if you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of hives, every one of those hives has been resulted in a good sized mature tree being killed.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, thousands of hives.

[Host]

Thousands of. Probably over probably. Yeah, thousands of hives. So we've, we've very much worked with these guys to implement a rule where that's not allowed anymore. They have to be manufactured. They're still manufactured from wood, but the wood has to be sourced from outside the game reserve.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. And you and a guy might come in, they're camped out and they go around and do the deal but we ate some of the honey. Here's.

[Host]

That's terrific.

[Steven Rinella]

Super good.

[Host]

Very good honey.

[Steven Rinella]

So that's like, I'll still remember when I got here seeing the first one of those in a tree and be like, what the hell's that on the tree? Yeah, just an interesting like feature.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

Out on the landscape.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Consult my list here.

[Host]

Yeah, it's one of those activities that, that we permit because it's a way that the local communities can extract value from the reserve in a way that's non consumptive. It's not destroying anything, it's not taking anything away from the reserve. It's, you know, a sustainable activity.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

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[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

Like what happens with our kids.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

You can work on these knives. If you don't want to work on.

[George Dodds]

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[Steven Rinella]

They'll get it sharp.

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[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

That's a good deal. Another, another sustainable activity that again regulated. And it sounds like you guys from, from your, your foundations, from your wildlife foundation perspective and from the law enforcement perspective that you're involved in, in managing a big chunk of ground. There's a fishery.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

But it's also fishery that, that without regulation can kind of run amok for sure.

[Host]

Yeah, it could go. It could go. Yep. It's, it's a gill netting. So there's the, the lake itself, Lake Sagara, and then the Ugala River. There's permitted fishing in the reserve waters allowed in both places. Less so on the river, more so on the lake. But it definitely needs to be policed. There's issues with excessive use of, of certain types of nets, especially really small nets. A lot of them are converted mosquito nets or fishing nets that have been lined with a mosquito net that really just catches everything. And even those small fish will be dried and they have nutritional value. And again, we want to see people get adequate supplies of protein. We want to people see people do well from harvesting enough fish that they can sell some excess to pay for school fees or whatever else they want to pay for. We want to see all this happen. We want to see all this being done. But the risk is that if it just becomes a free for all, you get population collapse in those fish stocks and the game. Reserve waters are an extremely important part of the like piece of the puzzle because they refill the breeding. You know, they, the spawning grounds there allow the waters that are more heavily fished that are outside the game Reserve to be sort of restocked with fish from the reserve waters. So we're very focused on keeping those waters healthy for the benefit of those communities as well as the benefit of wildlife.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I don't want it like, I'm gonna choose my words careful because I don't want in any way hack on. I don't want anyway hack on like government enforcement because you're dealing with like huge, very, very wild, very remote areas.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

You're. We're talking about. In this landscape, we're talking about places that are seasonally inaccessible.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. With scatterings of human populations around. And like you. When someone thinks of. If you're coming from the u. S. You're thinking of like poaching, you got one thing in your head. You think of a guy that, you know, generally it's like a guy that sees a huge buck and he doesn't want to wait for season. And it makes a big. Like a poacher got caught because he had killed like a buck out of season.

[Host]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

Or he's keeping. He kept 10 walleyes instead of five or whatever. We kind of have this sort of a little more benign notion of poaching. Our threshold is. Is pretty low, you know, like tolerance is pretty low.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And you also have an enforcement structure that's pervasive.

[Morgan Potter]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Right. It's hard for. It's. It's would be hard for like an industrialized poaching outfit to. To exist outside of view.

[Host]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

But here, because of the remoteness and just historical factors and all kinds of stuff, like poaching winds up being a. Poaching winds up being a thing that can have like population level impacts.

[Host]

Absolutely. It can.

[Steven Rinella]

And it just doesn't play out anymore. It doesn't. It's not like that in the U.S. no, no.

[Host]

It's for sure the U.S. is way beyond that stage. And poaching here, it will take on a commercial flavor too, where it becomes.

[Steven Rinella]

A commercial once it seems like it wants to. It sort of naturally wants to move.

[Host]

That direction, wants to go that way, for sure. And there's. There's a subsistence element to it which one can be somewhat sympathetic to. And certainly we have been in the past and even in the present. You know, as you've seen here, a lot of our trackers are ex poachers. A lot of people involved in our anti poaching team are ex poachers or guys that were at risk of kind of getting drawn into poaching. So there's that subsistence element that one can be somewhat sympathetic to. But it very quickly devolves from that into mass snarings of thousands and thousands and thousands of head of heads of game. And that's not conversant with any kind of native hunting tradition. It's not conversant with anything that's sustainable. It's not conversant with any of the Tanzanian government's goals as far as management and as far as providing people with protein and employment and development opportunities. It is something that's just completely out of hand and verges on criminality.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, we like, we live through this like in the US like this, this is, this is very, like that era is very much was part of our own culture.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Where you had, you know, we, we had. Even with, even with Europeans. When Europeans came, there was like a sort of subsistence economy and when the moment was right, it would really quickly move to like industrialized commercial stuff.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And if we like through very concerted effort, we eventually reigned it in, kind of destroyed the markets, the incentivized it and got there.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You can see here in some of these wilderness atmospheres here is probably a very similar situation than what we had in.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Than what we went through too with that trying to get, trying to find a point where you had some level of sustainable equilibrium of harvest versus exploitation. You know, harvest, a balance between some harvest not tipping into grotesque over harvest.

[Host]

Yeah, that's absolutely right. And it, and it goes together with development too. Right. If you've got people that are very poor with very few opportunities like you would have had in the. The frontier of the United States at one time, you know, very limited industrial opportunities, then there's got to be a way. Here in Africa, our big focus and our big goal is to make sure that wildlife and the presence of wildlife and the presence of these protected areas serves the people on the periphery. Because as soon as it stops doing that, it just becomes a target for poaching. And once, once everything's poached, once it's over utilized with the game, populations are very low because of poaching, then it becomes no longer viable as somewhere where you can run a hunting operation. And then those areas are then subject to further degradation from things like logging, mining, etc. Etc. As that protection goes away. And then you have the potential to lose a whole landscape, not just your pop. In a whole habitat, not just your populations of wild animals.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. And you can go any direction from here, I'm sure, and find places where slash and burn ag is denuded of.

[Host]

Wildlife, denuded of Forest denuded of everything. Just agriculture which again we're not in the business of telling people they can't make a living from agriculture. But these protected areas we have are so important and such a mass provide such a massive opportunity to these local communities as well as you know, the international community and the Tanzanian nation as a whole. So that's what we're focused on. That's what we're doing here.

[Steven Rinella]

Last thing on my list. Then we'll do, we'll do any little wrap up thoughts anybody has. But it was funny because there's certain impressions of just kind of like seeing safari imagery and safari stuff. You. I had these like questions over the years you wondered about and so many of those have been satisfied. Now I want to hit you guys both with a couple of these. Is for instance, I had no idea like why you don't see camouflage.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

It. And like, like in African safari culture in general, like camouflage isn't a thing.

[Host]

Yeah. It's. Well it's not done for one thing. Military style camouflage is illegal here.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

In Tanzania it's not allowed. That's for the military only. Secondly, doesn't provide, if I'm perfectly honest, with the exception of bow hunting, it doesn't provide a huge advantage for our style of hunting. Yeah, it, you know a lot of our stuff is really close quarters where movement is going to be the thing that gives you away. Movement and sound. You know, a lot of those buffalo we bumped, they didn't see us. They smelled us or heard us.

[Steven Rinella]

Sure.

[Host]

And took off.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

And so yeah, we. I also think it's. Yeah. It's something we just don't need.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. It was the, the legality aspect of it and I've heard in a number. There's a number of countries.

[Host]

Yes. A number of African countries.

[Steven Rinella]

Sort of like it's. I don't know, it's just, it's for the, it's for the military.

[Host]

It's for the military. Don't be wearing it.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. No backpacks.

[Host]

So that's a big one. When you hunt dangerous game, you need to be as unencumbered as possible. You need to have you, you. I mean even these some. I see some fairly elaborate kind of bino harnesses sometimes your one was about the maximum amount of that I want to see.

[Steven Rinella]

Limber.

[Host]

That was about. No. And you are to your credit. It didn't ever held you back. But the less stuff you could have on your person when hunting dangerous game, the better because you need to be able to potentially react very Quickly to a situation. And if you're getting your, your scope and your rifle stock and whatnot hung up in harnesses and straps, that's no good. If you're, if you're not getting a proper gun fit because you've got another extra inch or inch and a half of backpack strap with your silly little water straw there or whatever, that's no good. Yeah, you need to be able to find your sights quick. You need to be able to get on that target quickly. And that means being unincumbered or get out of the way or climb a tree maybe if things go really sideways. So the less nonsense you can have on your person, the better you are positioned to hunt dangerous.

[Steven Rinella]

And that ties in another ones. Like you always see everybody carrying no slings. But it's another thing is like less in thick junk, like in thick cover.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

When you got, maybe you got like a wounded buffalo that you gotta be very careful he doesn't come for you. You just don't want anything that hangs up, slows anything down 100.

[Host]

Well, even unwounded buffalo. Remember when we were tracking those three balls through that kind of river, it was like a dried creek bed, but the vegetation was thick. And oftentimes you had to change your rifle position, you know, three or four times in a minute. Because one minute you're ducking under something, one minute you're squeezing between two things, you know, and so you're changing your rifle position all the time. Sling use isn't universally like not practiced here. A lot of professional hunters, a lot of people use slings. I'm personally not into it for that reason. We just discussed and, and then kind of tying back to the previous thing. I think that when you're hunting dangerous game, if you have your rifle in your hands, you have a small but not insignificant advantage in getting that rifle into action quicker. That might save your life. And out here, you never know. I mean, when you're walking past this eight, nine foot tall grass, that's like a wall. You can't see more than two feet into it. You've. And you know, there is poaching in this area. It's very minimal, but it is you. There could be a wounded buffalo from a poacher laying right there and you walk past it, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. When we met Rogers, Roger got flagged by one. He never.

[Host]

No, he didn't wound it. It was wounded by lions or something. And he never had any clue it was there until it was coming at him. So when you have that rifle in Your hands in those kind of situations, you're better positioned to respond, in my opinion. And that's why I, like. I favor a. What we call Africa carry, where you hold it over your shoulder.

[Steven Rinella]

No. Okay, so dirt. Give. What are your overall impressions of Africa, man?

[Dirt]

Oh, I mean, phenomenal. Landscape, animals. I was. I was thinking, too, which we touched on just the people that we went down to. What community was that? Gordo. Gordos.

[Host]

It's called Lumbe.

[Dirt]

When we went to Lumbe, like, driving through those towns, just the kind of. The Celebrate. Celebrate celebratory kind of. Just everyone's happy, but quietly confident, too.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Dirt]

Like, there's not any angst, it seems. And I know this is just like, you know, a scratching of the surface, but just people would smile and wave at us. And then we had a meal with one of the staff's families, and they were so appreciative to have us. And just overall, like, the landscape, animals, people all are just. They seem very comfortable in what they are and who they are.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

I think that's a great observation. Tanzanian people are really happy. Yeah. And it's. I mean, it is. It's a hard life out here in the bush. You know, you don't want to sugarcoat it and say that, oh, they've, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, it's really. Really a lot of manual labor and a lot of hardship to be able to exist out here in these very remote rural places.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Host]

But everyone just has such a. A great view on life and a great way of going about everything and.

[Dirt]

The teamwork and everything. It's like a big family.

[Host]

And the loyalty that you. That people will show you here is something you just. You can't find in many places.

[Dirt]

And the mamba still.

[Steven Rinella]

When Morgan and I were in Messiah land. Oh, the crocodile. When Morgan and I were in Messiah land before we came here to hunt, I was. I was. What I'm referring to is my family came out for a week and we hung around and did. Did some different things. And Morgan took us wildlife viewing out Messiah land in one of their hunting areas. Anyways, we're having a conversation with the Maasai people. Like, you know, like, how do they perceive us? How do we perceive them? And. And Morgan made a comment. He goes, I. I feel like they look at us and think we're idiots.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They're like, dude, I got hundreds of goats. I got hundreds of cattle. I got all this. Like, we, you know. Yeah, we have land around. Dude, you know what? They probably look like Whatever we got, it's not because I don't, you know.

[Host]

They'Re not, they're not envying us.

[Steven Rinella]

No. There's nothing these guys problem.

[Dirt]

Totally.

[Steven Rinella]

Totally. Yeah. Just like I'm very. Yeah. It's just a different perception but no, the people are, the people are phenomenal. I do wonder like all the time you kind of like it's very. It's harmlessly self centered but unavoidable to be like what, like what do they think of us?

[Dirt]

No. Yeah. Just out of curiosity.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Like what would it be? Like how do you picture of like people that like pay money to come hang out?

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, like what is the idea? Like what is the idea going on? Whatever it is, whatever the thought is, it somehow is like the trackers and stuff that grew up here, whatever the thought is, is damn sure friendly.

[Dirt]

Oh yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, I mean it's like, it's just like.

[Dirt]

And you feel that.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Protective. Like very protective and kind of like looking out for what you got going on. Watching you. Don't kind of make, don't make any mistakes and, and like very warm.

[Dirt]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

There's. There's some things you're never going to understand. You know, I mean there's like some aspects you're never going to understand with the trackers. Like meal time for them is very different than meal time for us.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They eat kind of communally out of a common.

[Dirt]

Yeah, that's a great.

[Steven Rinella]

They'll cook like a common. They'll have like some common dishes. They'll sit. The guys will sit around together in a circle. No chairs, just different. And they look at, when we're, when they look at us eating they're probably like what is with all the. Why is it such a production? Whatever. Like you can't, you don't. No. You can't tell what anybody's thinking but just like a, just a warmth and like human camaraderie.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

In the people involved, you know.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Host]

The hunting brings you together in a powerful way. I think it's like it's a cross cultural thing. Like and you, you see how invested they get in your success too.

[Steven Rinella]

Super excited.

[Host]

Isn't that awesome?

[Steven Rinella]

Super excited. Oh yeah. Define success. They are ecstatic. They are driving success. Yeah. It is like there's no kind of like oh this guy's not really into it. I mean those dudes are like here they're playing for keeps. Oh yeah.

[Host]

They're all up in my business sometimes like make this happen.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, playing keeps telling me which way to Go.

[Host]

I'm like, yeah, I'll take it. Let's do this.

[Steven Rinella]

What's your impression, Seth? You made a lot of lasting friendships.

[Seth]

I did, yeah. My favorite part was the trackers. Like, yeah, by far. Just hanging out with those dudes and, like, seeing how they operate and, like, I wish I knew more the. The native language here because I. I would love to just, like, pick those guys brains about whatever's going on, you know?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Seth]

But, yeah, just watching, like, you know, the one day we're just hauling ass down the road and, like, Frank's yelling to stop because he saw a buffalo track, like, in dry dirt as we're going. Like, it just. They would do like that all the time. It was mind blowing to me.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

It's incomprehensible what they.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

What they can see, what they pick up on is. It's unbelievable.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Seth]

And then just like, kind of teaching them some American words and them teaching us Swahili words, like, it. Yeah, it was. I. I never laughed so much with someone that, like, I don't even understand.

[Host]

What the hell they're saying.

[Seth]

That's true. Yeah, it's true.

[Host]

Some comedy, like, transcends.

[Dirt]

Yeah, totally.

[Corinne]

And they've all got a phenomenal sense of humor.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

They all laugh all day.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was an outrageous stuff.

[Seth]

That was fun. And then lighting fires was just a blast.

[Steven Rinella]

Fire lighting's great.

[Seth]

You really hone in on, like, what type of grass is the best and, like, where you should be throwing and, like, what time of day you should. You should be hitting it hard. Oh, yeah. Moto fire.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, and what's the word for white people.

[Host]

As a singular.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah. What's fire again?

[Seth]

Moto.

[Steven Rinella]

Moto.

[Dirt]

Moto. Mazungo.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Because it's everything they wouldn't like. It's everything they wouldn't let you do growing up.

[Dirt]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You can't flick matches.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like. You know what's funny? Like, at our. At our fish shack, we draw the water off the creek so a kid can stand there with a hose.

[Dirt]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Shoot the hose all day. And no one ever yells at you. Yeah, it's just like the water, it's going right back, you know? Like, all you do growing up, all you want to do is just be able to shoot the hose, but your parents won't let you. And you can just shoot the holes so kids can stand there 24 hours a day playing with the hose if they never get yelled at. It's like that. With light and fires here. He's gonna light fires.

[Seth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was cool. And just seeing the culture and how. How the folks here live, and it was awesome. And then the hunting. The hunting part was different on my end just because. Weird Truck 2 and you just kind of miss out on a lot of things.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I mean, yes, in all fairness, a.

[Seth]

Little bit of riding truck one, but.

[Host]

To hang with the big dogs.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Seth]

But no, it. The trackers and stuff was awesome.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I would say, like, all in all, man, for me, like, absolutely. I've. I've texted and had multiple exchanges with friends of mine back home. And I'm like, dude, like, life changing.

[Dirt]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Life changing experience. I mean, 100. I will refer to things I seen here. Story. I'll tell stories from here for the rest of my life. And then like, like it. The re. The rest of my life, I'll feel like the impact of people I met and lifestyles I encountered. Skill sets, like, absolutely life changing. There's been a handful of trips like that. Like, you know, going a couple times. A couple times down to South America changed my. Changed me outside of my hunting self. And hunting interest changed me, but also really changed me in that area of focus around hunting. You know, the culture of hunting, the. The sort of the global landscape of hunting. Like, both of those things have changed, but also change even outside of wildlife. Just experiencing like another continent.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, a different culture. And it had the opportunity to bounce around a little bit. Like, we went to some larger towns.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Went to some villages. Went to some very remote villages. Went to some remote wilderness portions, you know, over the course of a little over three weeks. And. Yeah. Life changing. 100.

[Host]

I'm so happy to hear that.

[Steven Rinella]

The thing that drew me. It seems so small now. The thing that drew me is this idea that you can hunt this hunt Kate. Buffalo. And you got to worry about getting.

[Dirt]

Stopped in close quarters.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. It's like that you're gonna get up, like, you know, you're gonna get up to, you know, an animal, you know, whatever. 1500 pound plus animal. And. And people are making shots on these things at like 20 yards, 30 yards closer, and there's a chance they're gonna kill you. I was like, sounds great. Now it almost seems silly. Like that's a thing for sure. And we heard plenty of stories about it. Like, we. That's not the experience we had at all. But it's part of the lore.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, is that it's like. It's like a. It's a type of hunting, where you got to be careful.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Right. And. And that's exciting. Like, there's, like, there's more on your mind. Right. You got to play everything. You got to play your situation. Right. And as Morgan explained, a lot of that is. Is if you wound an animal and track it, you enter a whole other game. Yeah, yeah, we didn't. We didn't do that.

[Morgan Potter]

We.

[Steven Rinella]

We got one in it that we didn't need to trail it. But, like, in trailing them, you enter another realm, for sure. Like, it's a different dimension.

[Host]

Yeah, it's a. It's a very unpleasant one, I might add. I. I far prefer the hunts that go the way yours did. And, yeah, I'm. I'm very. I'm very, very satisfied to. To hear your take on all this, because I've been banging this drum for years now. That safari is so much more than just hunting.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

You know, there is just all these elements to it, and it tends to get, you know, it gets wrapped up in just killing exotic stuff, which, of course, is a component of what we do here on a very selective basis. But there's so much more to it. And it was great to see. Very gratifying for me. And I'm sure George feels the same way to see the whole crew, you know, yourself and. And just everyone that's been out here, part of this production, just kind of soaking that up.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, and getting a lot out of that and kind of coming with really insightful questions and. And making a connection to the guys across that language barrier that I think. Yeah, if I went and asked them, they'd say the same thing that it was. It was a rare example of. Of people really immersing themselves in it. That's great for that. I'm grateful, man.

[Steven Rinella]

The thing we didn't even get into, but also just kind of like, life changing, too, is like. Like my. My cultural self, whatever, you know, like a. Like, as a person that lives on the globe, like, that part of me has changed. Right. Just to see this, like I said, a new continent and so many new cultures. The hunting thing, too. But the culinary. Culinary standpoint, unbelievable. The sort of journey of the meat and the way meats used and the way meat is coveted and the way meat is preserved, the way meat's enjoyed fresh. Like, we didn't get any of that stuff, but just fascinating.

[Dirt]

That was.

[Host]

Yeah, we could do a whole show just on that.

[Steven Rinella]

I mean, fascinating, man, how stuff goes from, like, how stuff goes from the bush to the guys to the Guy's family, the people in the communities, the way they utilize it, the different perceptions of it. A thing Morgan pointed out is all of it has huge value. Right. Like, we'll talk about. Oh, the back straps are so good. It's just like. With a lot of the guys, it's like. It just is all enormously valuable. Yeah, yeah. And when you butcher an animal. I went over with the. You know, I went over to check on the sable and. And yesterday, and they were working on the stomach, you know, when we. When we left the buffalo, we left the grass clippings that were in his stomach, and we left some intestine in the lungs, I think.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep, that's it.

[Steven Rinella]

Everything consumed. Yeah, absolutely.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

The tail up. Well, tail to tongue.

[Host]

Tail, the tongue, yeah. Consumed.

[Steven Rinella]

We actually got both ends.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because we got the tongue and we got the.

[Dirt]

We did. And delicious.

[Steven Rinella]

We got. We sampled the mid. We sampled the mid range, too, but we had the tail and the tongue.

[Host]

Yeah, we definitely hit the midsection.

[Steven Rinella]

That was cool. And then going in. Going to a village and seeing how to, like. Dry meat is a real commodity. No, no, dry meat is a real asset.

[Host]

It's like.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, the climate's perfect for it. You cut meat in strips and dry it. And we went and do a village to one of the guys that works here. He brings. At the end of a season, he'll bring bags of meat home. We went to a village, and the way they take dry meat, cut it up, rehydrate it, turned it into. Turned it into recipes, you know, turn it into food. But instead of it going to a freezer, it goes to a dry preserved state, to a rehydrated state. Turned into just delicious food.

[Host]

Yeah, fantastic.

[Steven Rinella]

Very cool to see that stuff.

[Dirt]

And all cooked with wood heat, you know, everything. Yeah, it was crazy, man.

[Host]

Yeah, amazing.

[Steven Rinella]

Strip the bones down also. When I went over there, the bones had all been. They'd stripped the bones down to make dry meat. The bones were all on the grill.

[Corinne]

Oh, just cooking on the marrow.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. To get the marijuana. They were. Yeah, they were cooking all them. All them femurs and shin bones were laid out on a fire.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, it's proper. It's proper utilization here. And it. It makes a big difference to people's lives. And, you know, there's. You can go really down the rabbit hole of studies about how protein availability, brain development, ability to focus, all that kind of stuff. So it. It has a very important role to play in these communities where, again, livestock are not common and not used in the way that we would recognize in the West.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so many things I don't want to go on all night. It's getting late. But even that, like, the last thing we're going to open up. Many people are unbanked.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And Morgan was saying wealth is stored as livestock. Right. It's like, it's not. It's not like I'm gonna send those all off to slaughter this spring. It's like it. People have herds as a way of wealth management.

[Morgan Potter]

Yep. Yeah.

[Host]

That's where they store. All their money's tied up in cattle and goats.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like money in the bank transactions.

[Host]

Yeah, absolutely. They transact with them too.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. And Messiah land. Morgan's like, goats are for small transactions. Cows are forbid transactions.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He's like, that's your pocket change and that's your checkbook.

[Host]

Yeah, that's exactly it.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Just fascinating, man. I'm. I'm so glad we're able to make this work.

[Host]

I'm so glad you came, and I'm.

[Steven Rinella]

Glad you guys told me crazy Kate Buffalo stories and got me into it.

[Dirt]

Thanks for bringing us.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, of course.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. Thank you guys for coming, too. Seriously, professional team. It's been fun.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Host]

A lot of laughs on this trip too. Some of them might make the. Make the cut, but some of them definitely are not. Not TV friendly.

[Steven Rinella]

And George, good luck, dude. On your. On what you got going on.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Thank you. No, I'm looking forward to it.

[Morgan Potter]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I feel like if they weren't. I feel like if you were gonna get next failure, like, I feel like if you were gonna fail your apprenticeship, I'd be able to re. I'd be able to see it coming a little bit. I feel like you might be all right.

[Host]

Yeah. He's got a bright future in this business.

[Corinne]

Thank you.

[Host]

That I'm sure.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I feel like if you were on the outs, we would have picked up on.

[Dirt]

Oh, no, we're with George again.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. They'd be able. They'd have you over digging a hol.

[Corinne]

Back a house.

[Steven Rinella]

Wait, George, go dig that hole deeper.

[Host]

No, a lot of our. A lot of our success on this trip can be attributed to George's efforts. So for sure, a bright future. Thank you, guys.

[Corinne]

Oh, it's been a pleasure having you.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Remember I said we saw dozens of warthogs before we saw a keeper? George spotted the keeper.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Steven Rinella]

All right. Thank you guys both for putting us on.

[Dirt]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

It's a lot of work.

[Morgan Potter]

Work.

[Steven Rinella]

Thanks, man. Loved it.

[Host]

Absolutely. Thanks for coming. Enjoyed it immensely.

[Steven Rinella]

Great.

[Host]

This is an I heart podcast.