The MeatEater Podcast

Ep. 751: The Alaskan Bush Pilot

Host: Steven Rinella
Guest: Vance Robertus, Alaskan bush and float plane pilot (Black Rock Aviation)
Date: August 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This special "Alaska Flop" episode of The MeatEater Podcast takes listeners into the rugged world of Alaskan bush piloting. Host Steven Rinella sits down with long-time friend and pilot, Vance Robertus of Black Rock Aviation, for an in-depth conversation about what it takes to fly float planes in Southeast Alaska. Through personal stories, technical insights, and candid humor, Vance and Steve discuss the risks, rewards, and daily realities of life as a one-man, one-plane bush operation. The episode is rich with practical knowledge, reflections on wilderness aviation culture, and memorable anecdotes from decades in Alaskan skies.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Vance’s Aviation Journey

• Background and Early Interest:
  • Grew up in Colorado and Nebraska, inspired by crop dusters in rural landscapes (02:09–02:33).
  • Initially worked as an aircraft mechanic for airlines like Continental and Boeing before earning pilot credentials (02:53–03:15).
• Getting Started in Alaska:
  • Moved to Alaska in his mid-30s (02:21).
  • Started with small aviation outfits, worked up required float and Alaska hours, and eventually founded Black Rock Aviation (03:44–04:18).

The Unique Reality of Bush Piloting

• Differences from Commercial Flying:
  • Chose bush piloting over airline routes to avoid the impersonal, repetitive lifestyle:

    “I saw those guys dragging the black suitcases around and none of them were smiling... I don’t think I want to do that route. I want to fly floats.” (03:05–03:30)

• Float Plane Culture in Southeast Alaska:
  • Not as much industry-related flying as in the past — shift towards tourism and charter services as commercial logging reduced (04:32–04:54).

Risk and Decision-Making

• Risk Management:
  • Vance emphasizes the importance of respecting risk:

    "If you're too numb to it, then you probably shouldn't be doing it." (06:35–06:53)

  • Visual flight rules govern operations; instrument flying is uncommon in the float plane world (05:59–06:01).
• Flying Conditions and Challenges:
  • Flying in Alaska is difficult due to a combination of wind, visibility, and unpredictable weather:

    "Here in Southeast, you get all of it at one time. You get low visibility with gusty winds..." (07:52–08:09)

  • Landing on water is not always simple:

    "The middle of straits, when it's eight footers... you might get it down but it ain't gonna be soft." (08:42–08:48)

  • Calm/glassy water also presents unique takeoff challenges due to surface tension; pilots sometimes have to “make their own ripples” (09:35–10:12).

Technical Know-How and Bush Craft

• Site Assessment:
  • Checks lake size, approach and departure routes, obstacles, wind direction, and debris before landing on unfamiliar lakes (14:36–15:56).
  • Rule of thumb: 900 yards of water is comfortable for landing on a new lake (14:46).
• Operating Procedures:
  • Reading water and wind is a key part of successful float plane operations (15:56).
• Seasonal Reality:
  • The job involves extensive maintenance beyond flying — rinsing the plane every night to fight saltwater corrosion, among other upkeep (21:46–22:13).
  • The busy season is short and intense, followed by a quieter period to handle deeper maintenance (22:27–22:41).

Client Relations and Anecdotes

• Pet Peeves:
  • Passengers putting a camera in the pilot’s face without asking, or obstructing the pilot’s view:

    "When I started to take off roll and they stick a camera in my face... I need to see where I'm going." (16:40–16:59)

• Funny/Dumb Questions from Clients:
  • Guests from cruise ships often ask, "What's the elevation of this lake?" right after getting off the boat (17:53–18:16).
• Favorite Passengers:
  • Other pilots prefer flying with Vance, citing his reputation and skill (23:02–23:15).
• Satisfactions of Self-Employment:
  • Prefers solo operation over running a big company for the peace and direct satisfaction:

    "It's just a little more satisfaction... you're not doing it for him or them, you're doing it for you.” (21:35–21:46)

FAQ: Could a Passenger Land the Plane in an Emergency?

• Discussed the “fantasy” that a non-pilot could land a plane in an emergency. Vance suggests it’s technically possible with some mechanical aptitude, but context-dependent:

  “I don’t know. It depends on the person, I think... they might fiddle around enough to get where you could at least survive the landing.” (19:43–20:02)

Pilot Longevity and Lifestyle

• The age limit for commercial airlines is around 65, but float pilots can continue as long as they're healthy (20:43–21:05).
• Vance enjoys being his own boss, even if it’s hard work (21:25–21:46).

Memorable Quotes

• On airline lifestyle:

  "I saw those guys dragging the black suitcases around and none of them were smiling... I don’t think I want to do that route."
  — Vance Robertus (03:05–03:21)

• On staying sharp with risk:

  "If you're not thinking about it, about the risk... if you're too numb to it, then you probably shouldn't be doing it."
  — Vance Robertus (06:35–06:53)

• On landing in tough conditions:

  "You might get it down, but it ain't gonna be soft. And it may not stay together on you."
  — Vance Robertus (08:42–08:49)

• On technical knowledge:

  "You gotta have some ripples sometimes... you’ll do a circle or two, make some ripples, and then once you hit those, boom, you’ll pop off the water."
  — Vance Robertus (10:03–10:09)

• On self-employment and satisfaction:

  "It's just a little more satisfaction and in your job... you're doing it for you."
  — Vance Robertus (21:35–21:46)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Vance’s background and entry into Alaska aviation: 01:06–04:30
• Why choose bush piloting over airlines: 03:01–03:30
• Changes in SE Alaska’s float plane industry: 04:32–04:54
• Assessing risk and making flight decisions: 05:37–07:14
• Technical breakdown: rough water, calm water, and takeoff/landing challenges: 07:22–10:12
• Landing approaches and site assessment: 14:16–15:56
• Passenger etiquette and funny questions: 16:13–18:16
• Emergency scenarios: can a non-pilot land the plane? 18:26–20:02
• Pilot lifestyle and maintenance grind: 21:01–22:41
• Range of operation and reputation with local pilots: 22:41–23:15

Notable Moments

• The logic (and humor) behind why pilots circle before landing: "Looking for debris... is it clear?" (15:46–15:56)
• Steve’s anecdote about his kids and the fantasy of copilots in emergencies (18:26–20:02)
• Vance’s closing reflection on what it means to run a truly independent bush flying operation in the Alaskan wild (21:25–22:41)

Episode Summary

This episode pulls back the curtain on the demanding, high-risk, but deeply rewarding lifestyle of an Alaskan bush pilot. Vance Robertus's stories and expertise offer invaluable insight into the technical, environmental, and human factors unique to flying in America’s last frontier. Whether you’re a prospective pilot, an Alaskan adventurer, or just a fan of wild stories and practical wisdom, this is a compelling, authentic look at the realities of backcountry aviation.