Ep. 753: A Life On The Sea

Summary

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The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 753: A Life On The Sea

Host: Steven Rinella
Guests: Heather Duville (AK Moosey), Mike aka Git Wayne (Heather’s father)
Date: August 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Steven Rinella sits down with returning guest Heather Duville—known online as AK Moosey—and her father, Mike (traditional name Git Wayne), in Heather’s “skiff” to reflect on a lifetime spent on the Alaskan sea. The conversation dives into the interwoven threads of commercial fishing traditions, Indigenous heritage, conservation, the decline of herring, and the creation of Heather and Mike’s upcoming MeatEater digital series, “Our Way of Life (Hakustei).”

This rich episode blends family storytelling, technical fisheries discussion, and honest reflections on the resilience and changes in Native Alaskan life, all with the humor and humility typical of the show.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family, Boats, and Local History

• Introduction to Guests: Heather brings her father Mike, a lifelong fisherman, to join Steven in discussing Alaskan culture and their deep familial bond to fishing and the land.
• History of the House & Boats:
  • Mike recounts knowing the family who originally built Steven’s place; detailed stories about old boats, including the “Isis” and fun anecdotes about how fishing boats are traditionally named after daughters.
  • The practice of purchasing cabins “as is”—with all previous owners’ belongings left behind—is highlighted as peculiar to the area.
• Memorable Moment – Boat Naming Tradition:
  • “It just so happened that my younger sister was Joni and my older sister was Francis... they thought I named [the boat] after them, but I didn't. And I never did tell her any different.” – Mike (25:05)

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Timestamps:

• House and community history: (02:09–06:30)
• Boat stories, the “Frango”: (24:20–26:18)

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2. Growing Up Fishing & Fisheries Change

• Mike’s Origins:
  • Began commercial fishing at 11; received a rifle as pay ("My pay was a Mossberg .22 Magnum... $35 from Sears and Roebuck." – Mike, 12:26)
• Evolution of the Herring Kelp Fishery:
  • Mike details how wild herring spawn on kelp developed into a boom-and-bust industry, where 100 tons could be harvested in just 20 minutes, but resulting overharvest and techniques “decimated” herring populations.
  • “I asked a biologist, ‘why did that fishery go away?’ He said it was decimating the herring. And to this day, Heidelberg doesn't have a spawn. It literally wiped it out.” – Mike (17:27)
• Market and Regulatory Shifts:
  • Discussion of the impact of the Magnuson-Stevens Act (expanding US fisheries jurisdiction), creation of Individual Fish Quotas (IFQ), and boom in US catch capability.
  • Ongoing reduction in quotas and the economic and physical toll on fishermen.

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Timestamps:

• Starting out as a child fisherman: (11:35–15:06)
• Herring fishery development and collapse: (15:06–21:45)
• Fishery regulations and IFQ discussion: (50:54–54:03)

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3. Cultural Heritage & Revitalization

• Tlingit Clan Identity and Tattoos:
  • Heather and Mike discuss their opposite clan lineages (Eagle and Raven) and decision to reclaim suppressed traditions, like clan crest tattoos, as part of broader cultural revitalization.
  • Quote on repression and resilience:
    • “When I was growing up, really, it wasn't okay to be Native. So I've seen a change in my lifetime…” – Mike (34:43)
  • Powerful explanation of how Native cultural practices—tattooing, language, potlatch—were banned for generations, resulting in trauma and loss, but today there is new pride and restoration efforts among youth.
• Totem Poles & Smokehouses:
  • Loss of totem poles, smokehouses, and other traditional structures through historic logging and government “cleanups”; importance of subsistence and the visible remnants of ancient mariculture (e.g., clam gardens, canoe haul-outs, fish traps).
• Language Loss and Renewal:
  • While fluency in traditional Tlingit language was interrupted, Heather and her family are committed to learning and teaching words, and language classes are available locally and via University of Alaska.

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Timestamps:

• Tattoo heritage and cultural suppression: (29:41–35:58)
• Totem poles, smokehouses, and mariculture: (36:26–43:23)
• Language loss and teaching: (74:04–75:17)

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4. Traditional Ecological Knowledge

• Fisheries and Local Wisdom:
  • Techniques for testing shellfish safety (rubbing clam on lips); knowledge of shellfish “hotness” vs. governmental testing; sea otter behavior as ecological indicators.
• Environmental Change Observed First-Hand:
  • Dramatic decrease in clams and sea stars due to environmental and disease impacts; changing salmon and herring runs.
  • Family tradition of marking locations and abundance to track change over time.
• Memorable Moment – On the Decline of Herring:
  • “You can’t have unlimited effort on a limited resource.” – Mike (55:15)
• Perspective on resource allocation conflict between commercial, sport, and other user groups, with evidence that recreational harvest now often surpasses commercial.

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Timestamps:

• Traditional shellfish safety: (43:23–46:45)
• Sea stars, sea otters, ecological shifts: (46:45–50:05, 80:00–81:08)
• Resource allocation and recreational vs. commercial catch: (58:14–61:09)

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5. Making the New Show: “Our Way of Life (Hakustei)”

• Upcoming MeatEater Series:
  • Heather and Mike share details about their new show, which will chronicle sea otter hunting, herring egg harvest, seal hunting and rendering, and elaborately preserved fish—all through a lens of Indigenous stewardship and family.
  • Quote:
    • “This show is an opportunity to just get a kind of like a peek in through that window of our view... each tribe and each individual within their own community deserves to be uplifted and celebrated in their own right.” – Heather (64:53)
• Behind the Scenes Stories:
  • The humor of filming with the team, naming conventions (calling a cameraman “Fat Ass”), dad’s tendency to “just be the driver,” and the joy of, for the first time, spending the summer together as a family uninterrupted by the demands of commercial fishing.

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Timestamps:

• Show discussion, list of episode themes: (64:44–68:21)
• Family reflections, filming stories: (68:21–77:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On commercial fishing beginnings:

  • “My pay was a Mossberg .22 Magnum that cost $35 from Sears and Roebuck.” – Mike (12:26)

• On the collapse of herring fisheries:

  • “It took 20 minutes to harvest a hundred tons. Geez.” – Mike (16:21)

• On suppressed Native culture:

  • “There was 30 or 40 years where probably not many poles were carved at all. It just made a mess out of the culture, really.” – Mike (34:43)

• On unlimited exploitation:

  • “You can't have unlimited effort on a limited resource, and that's what we're seeing with that group.” – Mike (55:15)

• On family boats and naming traditions:

  • “So I'm telling everyone...he had a different name picked out, but then he heard I was so excited, they named it after me. And I didn't find out till like 15 years later that he had a different name, that you were his second choice.” – Heather (26:09)

• On the pride in cultural and generational transmission:

  • “The reason why I'm able to do all this stuff and know the things that I know is because my dad...he was able to still learn about our culture and practice that even through all those attempts to make us not anymore.” – Heather (68:36)

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Episode Flow & Structure

1. Opening stories about place, boats, and Alaskan fishing families.
2. Deep dive into fisheries history and evolving regulations, including ecological impacts.
3. Personal and cultural histories: the legacy of suppression and current revitalization.
4. Detailed, practical discussions of traditional food harvest, ecosystem impacts, and family ethos.
5. Preview and philosophy behind the new show—an affirmation of Indigenous knowledge, resilience, and humor.

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Where to Watch “Our Way of Life (Hakustei)”

• Premieres September 29th on the MeatEater YouTube channel and Outdoor Channel at 8:00 PM.
• The series will cover sea otter hunting, herring spawn harvesting, seal processing, traditional fishing techniques, and coho egg fermentation, with a focus on cultural continuity and celebration.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode stands out as an homage to enduring knowledge, family legacy, and the resilience of Indigenous identity in changing times. With stories both humorous and profound, Steven, Heather, and Mike blend technical insight with humanity to share not just “a life on the sea,” but the living history of culture, resourcefulness, and community.

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Transcript

[Heather Duville]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[First Light Representative]

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[Steven Rinella]

This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

The Meat Eater podcast.

[Steven Rinella]

You can't predict anything.

[First Light Representative]

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[Steven Rinella]

Welcome everybody. If you are a regular listener to the show, you first met, at least from this podcast standpoint, you first met Heather Duville sitting in this kitchen.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Or whatever you call this main area. About a year ago, Heather deville on social media. AK Moosey. She came out on the show. We talked a bunch about sea otter hunting, her life growing up sewing fur, all kinds of things. And now a year later, Heather's back. She came over in her what she calls a skiff, which we would call a large vessel. And she's brought her father. Mike, would you like to introduce your father?

[Heather Duville]

Sure. This is my dad. His traditional name is Git Wayne. English name is Mike. Look up to him in so many ways and I'm so grateful that he's here today. We came over in his skiff which your kids love, by the way.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

They walk all around putting in their order for.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

It's got a little bit of a. Like a Navy SEAL undercover. It's. It's all black.

[Heather Duville]

So he paints it black.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Why?

[Heather Duville]

So it blends in, you know, with the beach and. Yeah, he just put a fresh coat of paint on it this year.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Not just any black, it's flat black.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it. Not gloss black, not shiny. Mike, the thing that surprised me to hear, and I tried to argue out of it when I heard that you knew the guy that built this place.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

That's correct.

[Steven Rinella]

And I thought to myself, he must mean the success A frame because I.

[First Light Representative]

Hear about the people that built the.

[Steven Rinella]

A frame I never heard anything about. We only know back two owners, but our neighbor Ron Layton, who passed away a year ago, is the one that introduced us to the area. And Ron Layton would talk about. He grew up in Catch Can. Ron Layton would talk about the people that we bought from, the people they bought from. And then a guy who was very tough and Ron pays no compliment to anybody. Might the very tough person be the person you know that raised children here?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, that's Rory Bifos. He. He grew up. I'm not sure where he grew up in Myra Chuck maybe. But I know he built a home here with this house when he got married. He married Marion and she was from Myers Chuck.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And yeah, he's pretty stout boy. And he's still fishing. Huh. I actually have a picture of his boat in my phone I took a couple weeks ago and I asked him about just to make sure I knew what I was talking about. But he did build this house. Yeah, in the 80s and yeah, I think 70s when I first met him. He had a boat called the Ice Isis. It was a double end wood boat, but now he's got a fiberglass boat that is also the Isis.

[Steven Rinella]

What's. The. What's the word you're saying?

[Heather Duville]

Isis.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, what does that mean? I mean, I know the meaning.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

It's spelled like is.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah, I looked it up. There has a. I sent it to you. I think there's like a mythology tied to it, but got it. Yeah, he had two daughters.

[Steven Rinella]

See, I had it that he had. I had it. My recollection from Ron is that he had two sons.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, two girls.

[Steven Rinella]

Did he. He lived here with those girls?

[Heather Duville]

Yeah, isn't it?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Well, for a while and then he eventually moved to Myerschuck and he built a nice log cabin there. I think he sold it, but anyway.

[Steven Rinella]

So what was he Doing when he.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Lived here, he was probably fishing.

[Heather Duville]

Commercial fishing.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Like trolling for salmon.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, trolling and long line for. I know he fished block cod for many years. Halit. Okay. And in the winter, troll for king salmon and long line for yellow eye.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it. Oh, long line for yellow eye.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So Ron that I keep talking about, he had a. He had a halibut long line license and did that for a while. He had a troller as well. Then down the beach a little bit was Mel Fairbanks.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He trolled salmon and ran shrimp pots.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Right. For business. I know Ron Layton. You know, he was on a regional advisory council for the federal one. And he was living in Cassan for a while. Then he moved to Sultry Cove.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. And then moved to Craig Thorn. Sorry, Thorn Bay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So you knew Ron.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Did you ever. Did you ever have a. Any kind of confrontations with Ron?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, no. We got a long fighting.

[Steven Rinella]

Us too, but I, but all. But he. We got along good through confrontation.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, he was, he was easy to get along with. You know, we all get along with each other on the, the council.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And we meet twice a year.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah. They're generally three day meetings, so. No, it's fine.

[Steven Rinella]

He was. He was a dear, dear friend of ours. And, and like I said, we got this. We bought this from being friends of Ron. And he called us one day and told us this was for sale. And when I had been to his place and stayed with him and Joan, I never. I mean, if I looked over in this direction, I wasn't paying any particular attention. And when he called and said it was for sale, we just bought it without looking at it out of being buddies with him. And he was the one that showed us all about anything. Right. Like how to do all the kind of stuff up here that you need to do. Was all taught. Was all taught by Ron. And then when his wife passed away, he didn't want to be out here anymore and, and, and moved out and, and did. What's kind of an odd practice here.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Is.

[Steven Rinella]

Seth's place was like this. My place is like this. Ron's place was like this. Odd practices. When you sell. Seems people don't move out, they just walk away and you buy their possessions like there's no moving out. Ron, Ron, did you.

[Heather Duville]

What did you acquire when you bought it? What's the most memorable?

[Steven Rinella]

I found this on the beach.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I.

[Steven Rinella]

When I. When we bought the A frame, there was like totes of clothes and just like personal items. Yeah, we burned. When you came Here we burned most of everything, but. Yeah, everything. And we got rid of most of it. Most of it was just old, moldy and tore up.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

You know, I believe Ron was a policeman in Ketchikan for something.

[Steven Rinella]

That's right. He was a detective.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. You don't. You know that's not true.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, I believe it is. You know, I just didn't know him before.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, he was a door gunner. He was a door gunner in Vietnam.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He had been shot down two times in Vietnam. Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Didn't you say he had a great time there?

[Steven Rinella]

He always. That was the thing we used to laugh about, Ron, is he's the only guy we knew that had just like, seemed to have nothing but a good time. A good time when he was in Vietnam.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

One of my friends that lives in Cake was a crew chief on Huey in Vietnam as well. When I asked him, why weren't you a door gunner? He said, well, we had a guy that was better at it than me, so.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, but see, no, because Ron, I feel like a crew chief is on the. At that time, the crew chief is on the left or right door. I can't remember. I thought it was something like that. Either way, he had a heck of a time. Later, I went to Vietnam for a visit. And growing up like, my dad was a World War II guy, but my most. My buddy's dads were Vietnam guys. I went to Vietnam for a visit, and it was funny that one of my good friends. Dads didn't even want to look at me, having couldn't believe really, you would go to Vietnam. Ron was thrilled and wanted to know how everybody was his attitude about it. He was eager for a report, you know.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Huh.

[Steven Rinella]

To share notes. But, Mike, how did. You spent most of your life commercial fishing? Is that right?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, all my life. Actually. This is the first year in 65 years I did not go trolling. So.

[Steven Rinella]

And how did. How did that come about?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Actually, I. I've been a fisherman for. Since I was 11 years old. I've. I've been out fishing, and I didn't buy my own boat until 1970. So since 1970, this year is the first year I did not fish.

[Steven Rinella]

How did it come about when you were 11? How did it come about that you became a fisherman?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I had this burning desire to be a fisherman for some reason and talked my stepfather into taking me out. And then I became sort of like slave labor, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Huh.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah. So you didn't get paid?

[Steven Rinella]

No.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And the second year I fished with them, I got I got paid. My pay was a, a Mossberg.22 Magnum that cost $35 from Sears and Roebuck.

[Steven Rinella]

That was your pay for the season?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

What was the understanding if you weren't being, if you weren't being compensated at that age? Was the understanding that you were learning a trade, that you were learning a discipline? Like what was. How did you understand the, the arrangement.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

You were helping to support the family?

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

There was no personal gain. It was just something you did. You know, you're expected to.

[Heather Duville]

So then before you bought your boat, you built one, right?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, I. When I was like 16 years old or 15, I could, I didn't have any money. And that was about the time the wild herring spawn on kelp was taking off. One of the shipwrights there was building boats for that fishery and they built a pretty good little like a riverboat, plywood, skiff. And not having any money, my partner and I, my lifelong friend, Art Kennedy, had a rowboat with a five horse motor on it. We used to go everywhere with it. Before he had the motor, we rode it. It had double set of orlocks and two guys could row and we could, we could go anywhere we wanted pretty fast. But anyway, we went to fish Egg and used to be more lumber around in those days on the beach, huh. And we salvaged everything we could with more than one trip, two by fours and stuff like that, and gathered enough so I could build a framework for a boat. And I copied Henry Nelligan's. He was the one that originally built this boat and made a frame and scraped the money for the plywood to put on the bottom. And one of my mentors, Bud Thomas, had this 28 horsepower outboard which he loaned to me and I put on that and I used that for. Well, that was my first boat.

[Steven Rinella]

When you say that the herring fishery was taking off, what, what does that mean? Does it mean that the market was developing or like the, the, the something with the. I don't know how it kind of exploded in population.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, I don't know how it developed originally, but you could see these guys picking wild herring on kelp and we heard they were getting 10 or 15 cents a pound or it wasn't that much.

[Heather Duville]

The herring row.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, well, it's on microcystis kelp and the herring legs on it, but they were harvesting it and they were selling it. So the next year, oh, you know, it started to develop and seemed like when I first picked, picked, did the wild harvest, it was like 50 cents a pound or I can't remember 25 and then 50 and then it went to a dollar a pound. And there was so much interest that the participation grew just out of control.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

People were flying from different places, landing their plane and harvesting and putting it on the pontoons. I mean all kinds of. So it. The last harvest I did the season was 20 minutes and the quota for the Fish Egg island area was 100 tons. What? So it took 20 minutes to harvest a hundred tons. Geez.

[First Light Representative]

That's. You're saying a hundred tons of eggs.

[Steven Rinella]

Removed not from the fish but removed from the kelp with the kelp with. Oh, on. Okay, so not scraped from the leaf. Yeah, I got you.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And that fishery switched over eventually to where they. They sane the herring for the row or is that a different thing?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

That's a Sitka fishery where I live around fish egg. They never to do that. But there was a, a sane bait fishery.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So the fishery went away. Sitka was a 50 ton wild row on kelp harvest. Heidelberg was 50 ton. I think they opened Sitka second time Craig was a hundred and years later. I asked one of the biologists, John Valentine said why did that fishery go away? He said it was decimating the herring. And to this day Heidelberg doesn't have a spawn. Yeah, it literally wiped it out. It wasn't that big to begin with and Craig was decimated for it still is compared to what I remember when I was growing up. It would spawn for a couple weeks there here, there continuous spawning now it lasts about three days and if you don't get your branches which we put in the water for herring to spawn on, if you don't get there the first day, you not going to get good eggs. So it's that quick. And I think it's just beat down and will not recover.

[Steven Rinella]

Will not recover.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, because they several years back they developed this what they call pounding where they capture the herring and put the kelp in there and then they add herring and for like they can hold them like for five days and they come out with a real thick product. And a lot of times, that is a lot of times they harvest a hundred tons or more and the herring are considered dead by the department. But you know, they do release them but they're in pretty bad shape.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So this pounding started in Prince William Sound and they came down and gave lessons to the boys down in Southeast here about how to do it and you know, and they were selling it to the mostly Japanese and making pretty good money. But in Prince William Sound the Herring went away as well. And the biologist there had a chance at one of our regional advisory council meetings to ask him what happened to the herring? Did the oil spill kill him? And he said no, he said the pounding did. So I don't think it's recovered yet. But they actually used to send airplanes down here, harvest Microcystis kelp because it didn't grow there. Not good enough quality in any case and fly it up to. To Cordova, wherever they're basting from and use that in their pounds. Wow.

[Steven Rinella]

Jeez.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Extreme value to this stuff. Yeah. For someone to do that. You guys still harvest it now and sell it commercially? No, I had a license and I got rid of it. I never could make any money at it. But there are a couple groups that probably do okay on it. But you guys, you said you are still harvesting it now for personal use.

[Heather Duville]

So our. One of our episodes covers traditional harvest of herring eggs. Cutting down a young hemlock tree and we submerge it in the spawn the herring spawn on the boughs and then we harvest it later. So we. That was.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

But we do a personal harvest on the wild kelp which does not get as thick as what the pounds would where they capture these herring and hold them and force them to spawn on, you know and it gets pretty thick.

[Steven Rinella]

But you know we keep talking about. Or I keep talking about Ron Layton. Ron Layton was always very upset about the herring fishery. Yeah, well, yeah, he, he didn't. He. He was always thought that it was ill advised.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

It is the herring because it is a forage fish.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I mean everything. Well, cohost king salmon are. Are dependent on herring and I think they've been massacred. It started off back in the early 1900s, if you will. I'm not sure the date but they had big herring reduction plants in Chatham Straits where they catch all the herring and run them through the reduction plant. I don't know if they saved any of it for animal feed or what, but they wanted the herring oil and all those stocks is never recovered. So we just have a few small places. Sitco seems to be doing better than anywhere else. But every place they've had a pound fishery or a heavy gill net fishery like Kashakes, the gillnet fishery, that's all gone. Earn a sound Huna Sound Cordova, all of Seymour Canal, all those have gone away. They don't have a commercial fisher either anymore.

[Steven Rinella]

When what was the. What was when you were younger and starting out fishing, what was the first time that you were fishing for your own Money like that, you were in charge. Catching fish, selling the fish and using it to support yourself and not using it to support. Like, not doing it as an employee, but doing it as your own. As your own boss.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Well, I crewed on boats, trolling and sanding later in my later teens, and did halibut fishing. But 1970, I was able to save enough money to buy my own boat.

[Steven Rinella]

And then you did what. Like, what activities did you do out of your own boat?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I trolled for salmon, primarily, and I had that boat for eight years. The last two of the eight years, I guess I. I did fish for halibut, but I wasn't really good at it. And then I bought a bigger boat and started, after a couple years, owning that. I can. I changed it over so I could fish. Black rod and halibut.

[Heather Duville]

Tell them about the name. The name. Your boat, dad. And.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Well, I made this deal to buy this boat, and this guy lived in Tacoma. Okay? We agreed 12,000. So I quit my job so I could go get the boat. And then he decided, well, I'm not going to sell it. And I said, why not? Well, this guy offered me more money, and my wife's giving me a hard time. And so I wound up paying him 14,000. And then I went to Tacoma and brought the boat home. I can't remember what else you asked me.

[Heather Duville]

The name.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Oh, oh, the name of it was Frango. It just so happened that my younger sister was Joni and my older sister had two sisters was Francis. And they thought my sister Joni thought I named it after them, but I didn't. And I never did tell her any different.

[Heather Duville]

It came with that name.

[Steven Rinella]

Are you serious?

[Heather Duville]

And they were all, oh, he named the but after us.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

What a coincidence. Wow.

[Heather Duville]

I love that story. Because when dad got his newest troller, I thought for sure, because I saw, oh, all the dads had named their boats after their daughters. So when he got this boat, I thought for sure he's going to name it after me, right? So I'm telling everyone. Well, he had a different name picked out, but then he heard that I was so excited, they named it after me. And I didn't find out till like 15 years later that he had a.

[Steven Rinella]

Different name, that you were his second choice.

[Heather Duville]

I was like, oh, my gosh. So I think about that. It reminds me of his first boat and how. And that name.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And I wonder where that came from because, yeah, Jennifer has an uncle and his boat is named after his daughter. Oldest daughter.

[Heather Duville]

It's tradition.

[First Light Representative]

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[Steven Rinella]

There's your mattress.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Steven Rinella]

Mike, I see cussy the tattoo on your hand. Heather explained the tattoos on her hands before C. Your left hand. You have the same, right, or you have the same hook, Correct?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, you should.

[Heather Duville]

So he's teaching the crew how to say nice. It's in slingit. It's. Nah, that's a wood hook. Yeah, well, Garrett's calling it knocks. So all last week. Mike, can I see the nox and my desk? Like, what are you talking about? And so we had lessons, but this is the only nach we've ever retired to Sea monster. He carved it in 1992. 2.

[Steven Rinella]

And so you share that one. And then, Mike, what is your left hand?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

That's a beaver raven tail. That is my clamp.

[Steven Rinella]

Heather was telling me that I can't remember if we talked about this before, but yeah, we did talk about this a year ago. And maybe you have recollections of it as well, that I don't know what years this would have been that. And I don't even know how it came to be. But, like, tribal people were discouraged from any kind of markings.

[Heather Duville]

Permanent regal. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[First Light Representative]

Like, where did that.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, who did. Like, how, like, according to who and how is it enforced and how is that expressed?

[Heather Duville]

I don't know all the answers to those questions, but for about a hundred years, it was illegal to practice, like, cultural tattooing. So it would normally take place during, like, a cuic, which is, like, also known as a potlatch. So it was illegal to even have a potlatch. Practice your culture ceremonies or, you know, there's different words used in English or, you know, our traditional language. And so a lot of this went away because it wasn't legal to do so. So then you see a lot of, like, jewelry, cuffs, carved earrings, and that way people could wear their clan crest and remove it when required to. But this is permanent regalia. This was traditionally, you know, during a cuic or potlatch. You'd get tattooed. And so dad and I got our clan crest tattooed, you know, kind of as a way to reclaim what's ours.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Mm.

[Heather Duville]

We're opposite. So you follow your mother's lineage. So I'm an eagle and he's raven. Okay, so we're opposite clans, and I see a lot of this coming back. So there is a. Like, a revitalization of the cultural tattooing and even, like the hand. Hand poke tattoos.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So most of that was imposed by what's referred to as missionaries. And they didn't want to speak your own native language. So even when I was growing up, my mother did not teach us. I know some, but she was very fluent.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, your mother was?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, and my grandmother and my aunts. But they didn't teach kids because it really wasn't okay. They were taught that it wasn't okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Uhhuh.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

A lot of the kids were forced to go to boarding schools in lower 48. My mother did not go there, but she did go to Rankle Institute. But they forbade them to speak their own language there and, you know, just basically destroyed a lot of culture. So you didn't see new totem poles for many, many years. They did start during the 3C days and the depression days. They had the 3C program. I can't.

[Steven Rinella]

Civilian. You mean the civilian conservation.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, core. Yeah. So they did build some poles during that, and they paid them under that program. So that's where the original totem poles came from in clock.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And they've been recarved since then, but that's where those poles came from. So there was 30 or 40 years where probably not many poles were carved at all. It just made a mess out of the culture, really. You know, So I think. And effort is made now to try to restore some of it, but, you know, these are modern times. It's all different, you know, but, you know, it is working a little bit. I can see some pride restoration in the people themselves, and I think that's important. When I was growing up, really, it wasn't okay to be native. So I've seen a change in my lifetime. Sad as may be, but that's the attitude even natives had that were better off treated. Natives that weren't so well off, you.

[Steven Rinella]

Know, So I don't understand.

[Heather Duville]

It's like lateral violence, so.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, I'm sorry. I do. Yeah. I got what you're saying. You mean that. That well off, like natives that were well off treated.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Other natives look down on the ones that Weren't so well off, you know, so, you know, and I felt that when I was growing up. So I'm glad to see that not so much anymore.

[Steven Rinella]

You guys had showed me when we were boating around. There's a couple interesting things you showed me over by your place. Maybe you could speak to them. One, I'll just go in the order in which we saw them. One was you showed me a location where there had been a. A smokehouse.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And I believe that once they did the. Once they kind of parceled Alaska out, being like forest service gets this, tribe gets this, whatever. The BLM gets this. However they divided it, they went around and would kind of destroy some relics, what they regarded as relics, but what were actually like active smokehouses. Is my understanding of this correct?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

That's correct. But that didn't happen until, Jeez, between the 30s and right after statehood. I guess that.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

The forest service, you know, owned X amount most of the land.

[Steven Rinella]

Huh.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

For some reason, they decided to clean up all the old smokehouses and stuff like that. There were on federal land, not village. Well, they didn't care about village sites. My great grandfather was chief of Tuxican, and it was when I was a young kid, there was a lot of polls and houses that you could tell we're all there and everything when we went by. I remember seeing it on our way to Sarkar. But they logged shortly after that and logged right through the old village site. You know, in fact, today you can see cables still laying on the ground there. And you also garden mounds, remnants of house posts, the corner posts. You know, there's a few of those left. But there was numerous totem poles when I was a kid. But, you know, they're floating logging camps, and the loggers cut sections out of those and had them as ornaments on there. Oh, floating cap. Really? Yeah. Yeah. But no one cared, you know, today, if you did that, they'd put you in jail, I suppose. But they're. They're more protected now. But no one cared. They. They got rid of all this. One of the smokehouses was on the island. We used to go there and we're kids with that little out rowboat with the five horse. We'd go out there and we'd hang out there, and it was big enough to where you could actually stay in there. You know, everybody had pretty good sized smokehouses than today, like as big as just rope.

[Steven Rinella]

Were the smoke houses positioned to be close to a spawning run?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So you could stay there. Fish and smoke.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Fish. Well, there was Old village sites there or at least summertime fish camps. And that's a real protected place where I showed. Showed you that there's numerous fish drops there. Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

That was the second thing that I was gonna ask you about. When we were out we went. You pointed out some things that I would never ever have noticed. But once you pointed them out, that was so obvious what I was looking at. But. And I meant to go investigate the creeks around here and look for the same clues. You pointed out. Canoe landings at creek miles where the lar. The rocks are cleared away and there's actually like a little concave groove going way up the beach. Never. You would. You could live there your whole life. If someone didn't say, like, you see, look, line up and look that way. You'd live there your whole life and not realize what you were looking at. There's a place to drag a canoe, a boat up.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then the remnants of the fish traps that you could also live there your whole life. And just think that that's the rocks, how God laid them down. And then you show me. You're like, oh, like once you see it, you're like, oh my God. It's like they're arranged like weirs. You know, that was very surprising to me. And I. And I haven't looked here for that.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Almost all our cricks have those. And the ones that didn't have a good supply of rock, they drove stakes in the ground to make the fish trap. So, you know, it's. If there's no rock supply to do that, then they used wooden stakes. And like up in Clock Lake, there's wooden stakes up in the lake that are. They've even been carbon dated. I can't remember the dates, but my good friend Steve Langdon is a professor in. Of anthropology. He did a lot of studying and pulled some of those up and had them dated. But let's see. Oh, there's a couple places where I could show you where there was actually what you call clam gardens, where the rocks were laid out. And it's filled with the proper substrate, if you will, for a clam garden. And they're still visible and still clams of them today. And the otter been digging at them.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh really?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

But they actually practice mariculture hundreds of years back. And a lot of the villages were close to a good clam bed like the one John Darrow, he referred to it as empty clamshell village at Ignis where we, we. We found artifacts there. And the only things left is stone, you know, because in the wintertime, dark and the days are short, but you could always go get clowns, you know, bad weather, whatever. It was always something you could harvest.

[Steven Rinella]

Do you remember from. Do you remember from your relatives or maybe things you've heard, how people dealt with the risk of paralytic shellfish poisoning when there was no government funded testing?

[Heather Duville]

They'd put. I was told they'd put them in their mouth and see if it turned.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Your mouth lips numb. That's what Ron.

[Heather Duville]

They'd spit them out. But that's what all the elders told me.

[Steven Rinella]

Just rub it on his lip.

[Heather Duville]

They'd rub it on their lips and then wait.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

But on the other hand, we had colder weather, colder water, you know, Then we do have today, which is spawning a lot of these things. But there are some places where there just seem to be a hot all the time. And it could be in the. The gravel they grow in, I guess.

[Steven Rinella]

You mean hot with the. Out with the algae.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Heather Duville]

We call them hot clams. You know, like. Yeah, but you know, do you know a sea otter won't eat a hot clam? They can tell.

[Steven Rinella]

They know.

[Heather Duville]

They have like a mechanism where they can really.

[Steven Rinella]

That's why we don't eat them out of the COVID Right? Or is that something else? No, we. When we used to eat clams before I got too scared of shellfish poisoning, when we used to eat clams, we didn't eat clams in the COVID because back then people would run these very not well functioning sewage systems into the.

[Heather Duville]

COVID Jimmy, you want to go get one and we'll rub it on his lip and see.

[Steven Rinella]

I think the tide's too high to find one, but would you know when it goes down? Yeah. Would you now eat, like. Not now, but let's say, like, are you comfortable eating clams in the winter or. No.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

What do you do?

[Heather Duville]

Well, so the testing, they test.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I mean, what do I do?

[Steven Rinella]

Rub it on your lips?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, I eat part of one.

[Steven Rinella]

You do?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And wait how long.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

The offer doesn't make your lips tingle or anything. They're fine, you know. But on the other hand, we have a clam fishery that goes on.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Gooey duck fishery. And they're right next door and they're harvesting those and they pass the test. So I see no reason why normal butter clams, when I could get them, which are all gone now, would be fine to eat. They're. They're filtering the same water.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. So you're comfortable. Like if I took you over yonder right here and it Was January, February, and we dug some clams. You would eat a part of one.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And if your lips didn't get numb, you dig in.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah. If it was a good clam. You know, I'm particular about where I dig them. I don't dig them out of the mud. I like to take them out of a mixture of clamshell or clam shell where they're nice and white and, you know, good color and healthy, you know, fat clams. That's the preferred places I would dig them. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Do you ever use, like, clams as halibut bait? Do those work or do you.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

The gui ducks do, but, you know, I never used them, but a friend of mine did. They had a bunch that were. I don't know what was wrong with it, but he used for Albert bait, and they work fine. But we're using that type of thing. Or putting clams in your crab pot to catch crab. We used to have a lot of these sunfish, you call them.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

They all got killed by a bacteria. Not a virus of that bacteria killed them, but those things would run as fast as they could to get those clams.

[Steven Rinella]

Was that right?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

It wasn't the best bait.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. A few years ago, there's still so many down, like. I mean, they're all over the place. Down off Washington, the oceanic sunfish. A few years ago, there was a giant right out here in the arm, and people got video of it. They had no idea what they're looking at.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

The mola.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Not around. Aren't there some species, those that are, like, targeted.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

What are you talking about? Sunfish? I'm talking about these starfish that are.

[First Light Representative]

Oh, sea stars.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[First Light Representative]

Oh, I thought you meant that big.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, that oceanic sunfish that, like, lays on the surface.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I've seen those.

[Steven Rinella]

I thought that's your tough.

[First Light Representative]

Oh, so to see.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. The sea stars. Yeah. They're all gone.

[First Light Representative]

I always thought.

[Steven Rinella]

I always heard it was a virus. It's a bacteria.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Bacteria. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They're gone. I mean, those things are gone.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

They just discovered it was a bacteria. That. That. That's new news. Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Okay. I was confused because.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So if you put clams in a crab pot, these sea stars, you get a crab pot full of those instead of crab.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, they like it better than they like fish clams.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

That's one of the main stays that they eat.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. Okay. When you said that about, you know. You know that fish I'm talking about, right?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because they. They make it up here sometimes. I thought. I thought you meant that there was more before, like somehow there was more of those fish around that lay on their side and give them the. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, I know exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

Because you can rub them with a brush. You can rub them with a scrub brush and they like it. That it's a crazy fish, man. I'm not joking.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I was fishing out muan once and one the sunfish was on the kind of sea of spin and stuff. And I thought it was a big shark. And before I saw it, it was coming right by my trolling lines and I thought, oh crap, I'm gonna hit that shark, you know? But it went right by his hind end. Nothing touched. It was one of those big sunfish. Okay. All right. Gosh, I thought it was. I thought I was gonna run right into it. But actually it wasn't the shark. It was.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, the sunfish swimming around this fin out of the water.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

They don't have no tail on them, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

So do you like, do you target salmon sharks or do you know people that do? No, he's very interested in salmon. I love salmon sharks.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

As am I. Yeah, I've seen them jump out of water down at. Head off for whatever reason, just like. I don't know what they were doing, but salmon shark, huh? And we'd catch one once in a while, trolling.

[Steven Rinella]

I've heard they taste amazing.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I don't know, they might be, but I don't eat sharks. I've caught a lot of blue sharks and dogfish and I just can't. They have a urea to them, you know, And I don't know how to deal with that. And I've cut steaks and soaked it in salt water and.

[Steven Rinella]

No good?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No. When you people do eat them, you.

[Steven Rinella]

Know, when you were in the black cod, in the black cod fishing business, were you. Were you long lining black cod or did you. Yeah, you okay? What was that, what was that like as a, you know, what was that like as a business? Was that like a profitable business to be in?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

It was very good for me. I started like 84, I think, and it turned into a derby, everybody. Well, what happened was the Mags and Stevens act kind of opened the door for that. Before that, the foreign longliners would come across Japanese, Koreans and fish black cod. And the market was really poor, two bits a pound or whatever. And if you couldn't do anything else, you could go fish black cod. But the market wasn't that great. So when the 200 mile limit came in, it allowed the American fishermen to participate more. And they claimed you're never going to catch all those cod. But Yankee ingenuity, we figured out how to catch them. I mean, way better than they did. So as we took more of the quota, they got less. Pretty soon they were just moved completely out because we could harvest it all and it was actually pretty good fishery. But the. Because everybody wanted to jump in on the halibut and black God fishery, they turned into derbies and the fleet was increasing at 20 a year. So then the IFQ program was finally put in place to save lives, if you will, because people are literally killing themselves to get out and get their share of the. The quote, the quota. I mean, boats that shouldn't have been out there in bad weather, you know, but they would do it and you know, it was costing.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So then the IFQ program, but now we have. It did stabilize things. But I have less quota than I used to catch. You know, like I started off with 32, 000 pounds of. Qualified for 32, 000 pounds of HAL, but. And I think I'm just under 9,000 now because of conservation cuts and so on. Yeah, that's a pretty bad hit too. What's that stand for? The IFQ Individual fish quota. So you actually own the quota. Got it. You can sell it, you can fish.

[Steven Rinella]

It and you can catch it when you want and not have. You have a big window opening wind, opening day. Window.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, you have a. From March till December or almost, you know, to catch your halberd or. Or cod. So it, it's a better fishery in that respect.

[Steven Rinella]

Do you mostly fish alone?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I used to do all my fishing alone except for Hal, but blackout, I had a crew. But halibut, I. Oh, Raymond, my boy and I used to do that ourselves, but now I'm old and creaky, so I go out with him and can't say I didn't fish this year because I did. I just didn't fish salmon. But I did go get the hal.

[Steven Rinella]

But do you like fishing with your boy?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah, I was funny. He was tough, you know, and he's a fisherman, which never encouraged to be one, but he is. So he's pretty good at it.

[Steven Rinella]

What was. If you would. If you were going to discourage someone from it, on what grounds would you discourage it?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

It's really an unstable way to make a living. We've taken a lot of cuts and you know, everybody wants a piece of the pie, a bigger piece. Like the sport charter group.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

You can't have unlimited effort on a limited resource and that's what we're seeing with that group. There's still no restriction. Anybody can get licensed up and start the charter business, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

But it is a limited resource. So the last couple years prior to this they had virtually an unlimited season where there was no in season management. Say okay, you get 20% but we're not going to manage you in season. So they caught more than their 20 so they took it out of the commercial trollers. So we didn't get a second opening.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So this year they've changed that to where there isn't season management. So they got shut down on Kings and June sometime and then they decided that they had 4, 000 fish more coming and so they could keep one. The non residents keep one. Yeah, it's an annual limit.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep, we're well aware.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

But that's what happened this year. That's why the restriction for the last two years, two or three years prior to that there was no in season management which which was really unfair to the commercial fleet because they just took the fish away from them to make up the difference.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Feel good and look good this summer with savings on your personal care favorites and earn four times points now through September 9th. Shop in store or online for items like Dollar Shave Club razors, hydro Silk razors and Edge shave gel. Plus some favorite brands like Tampax, Pearl Depend and Poise to earn four times points to use for later discounts on groceries or gas. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer end Sept 9. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[First Light Representative]

Hunting demands, preparation, persistence and gear that will not quit on you. That is why I wear First Light. This isn't about hype, it's about no compromise. Gear built to perform, built to last. Whether it's their industry leading merino wool keeping me comfortable through the cold and the hot or their durable outerwear shrugging off the elements, First Light is built to help you go farther and stay longer. Does designed by hunters for hunters with a deep commitment to conservation and land access. No shortcuts, no excuses, just gear you can count on. Head to first light.com that's F I R S T L I T E.com.

[Steven Rinella]

In resource management you often find that different user groups always blame the user groups, always blame other user groups.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I don't blame those guys, but my suggestion that our AC meetings is you guys should try to do a limited entry on yourselves so you have some stability in what you're doing and your licenses would be worth a fortune. Oh but you gotta curb this growth somehow. Just like the individual fish quota on the federal side and the limited entry on the state side for commercial seining and trolling, there's a limit of how many boats. But right now the sport commercial is totally unlimited.

[Steven Rinella]

It. Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And it's a limited amount of fish. So everybody's scrapping for a bigger piece of the pie all the time. Or at least they are. They're always lobbying for.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. More the point I was going to make about that the way different user groups and this goes across the board. Different user groups look to other user groups as the problem. But I was shocked when I was reading some a report that the state put out. I would have thought, just by guessing, I would have thought in southeast Alaska you would see that commercial harvest on like these key species. That commercial harvest in my mind I would have been like it's got to be 90% compared to recreational harvest. But for a lot of the, a lot of the main target species, recreational harvest surpasses commercial harvest.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I had no idea because we always blame particularly on the commercial guys. Caught them all.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I know one lodge that lands more fish than the commercial fleet and Craig. So yeah, they don't talk about it anymore but they made the brag they caught a million pounds or shipped out a million pounds of. Of you know, processed fish like you did. That doesn't count the. All the waste stuff that.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a million pounds of fillet.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Skinless, boneless.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Really?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

That's a lot. And that's more than I thought. That's probably 4 million in actual fish bodies. Yeah. That's more than the. The troll fleet and Craig catches and lands and sells commercially.

[Steven Rinella]

Huh.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So it's significant. But without that hatchery in claw which is licensed for 5 million eggs, they'd probably all go broke there. And it's funded by a fisherman. So for the most part, 3% off the top goes into a hatchery enhancement. Got ital fishermen. What fish are they hatching co in that hatchery it's 5 million. 5 million eggs of coho eggs and has been fairly successful this year is kind of we're seeing for a 53 million prediction. I'm not seeing the fish. Well, I see a fiat here. It doesn't look too bad. There's a few scattered jumps coming inside Cassan Bay, but on the other side it's not very good. Also.

[Steven Rinella]

I, I don't this Just observational. I. I don't know what this year is. Appears. This year appears to be very different on a salmon situation. I didn't know if there was just a very poor hatch a few years ago.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I don't know. You're saying humpies. But some of the cohos aren't showing like I think they should. There's. There's king salmon. Yeah, yeah, there's plenty of king salmon. I mean, you know, it's, it's pretty good. We can't keep, keep or catch them, you know, I think on the second opening that my share is 17 fish for the second opening for.

[Steven Rinella]

As a commercial fisherman.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

17.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

17. When I started fishing in 1970, I could fish on the, out on the ocean from April 15th till September 20th, and I could keep king salmon the whole time. And now the king salmon season lasted what, four or five days, huh? So I've seen some change.

[Steven Rinella]

What, what's those 17 fish? What's one of those fish worth?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I don't even know. I didn't land a king salmon commercially this year yet. I think there's six and a quarter pounds of. I think that's the first opening they were paying six and a quarter pound.

[Steven Rinella]

That's gutted and guild.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So a 20 pound fish is, is, you know, is okay.

[Steven Rinella]

What has it been like for you guys together as you've been working on the show you're working on, what's that been like?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I don't work on the show.

[Steven Rinella]

But you participate.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I've been in just kind of enjoying life this year, taking Heather out a lot. Fish king salmon, fish halibut, hana otter, get greens. Just go after sockeyes and stuff like that.

[Heather Duville]

There's a common, like, recurring thing that I hear dad saying and he goes, I'm just the driver. So he's. Anytime we give him a little responsibility, like, I'm just the driver.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So this is the first time in my whole life, if you will, that I've just done what I wanted for the summer, not worry about fishing.

[Heather Duville]

This is the first time I've had my dad been able to spend summer with my dad in my whole life. So this is a special time being able to do the show. We have an incredible group, you know, that has joined us to capture all of these moments from, you know, meat Eater. But we couldn't have asked for a better group. Dad and Garrett totally hit it off and the girls are great. And this is my first summer with dad. So he's been gone, you know, from spring till fall fishing. My Whole life. So if we could catch king salmon together, you know, just like going out in the skiff and catching king salmon, we'd get them in like before the middle of June. So in years past, I would catch one or two king salmon total because he'd go commercial fishing for that. So in June, I'm like, oh, I got my king for the year and that's it, you know, so this has been great. And yeah, thank you, dad, because it is a lot. It's a lot, it's a lot. But being able to capture some of these moments that we just wouldn't have otherwise been able to. And with my niece joined us this last round with halibut and just being able to take up space for our, you know, our culture and indigenous people. And, you know, we represent such a large group of people, but, you know, each tribe and each individual within their own community deserves to be uplifted and celebrated in their own right. And so this is just, this show is an opportunity to just get a kind of like a peek in through that window of our view. And I'm thankful that we get to capture some of it.

[Steven Rinella]

Can you name the episodes for people so they know what to look for?

[Heather Duville]

Yeah. So I believe we're going to kick off with the sea otter episode. And then we have the herring eggs. So we have the herring spawn harvesting herring eggs. And then we have a seal hunt, and we process the seal and make seal oil and the crackling, which you've tried, and then we're fishing with the nach, so the wood hooks. And then the last two episodes will be, I think, two parts, which is going to be fish camp. So dried fish, making the cold smoked strips, jarring the fish, and fermenting coho eggs. So in September, when the cohos, you know, come in, we're going to do coho fish camp and ferment some skeins. And I'm worried about Samantha because she walks around my property like this, plugging her nose, and I'm like, what's wrong? And she's like, there's just a lot of smells in Alaska that I've become nose blind to. And I forget everything smells.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Her compost pile is what it is.

[Steven Rinella]

And Mike, were you making appear? Are you in all of them or are you just driving? Like, do you talk in all of them?

[Heather Duville]

Oh, he's, he's a highlight. I, I, I don't think so.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I don't know. I just do what I do.

[Heather Duville]

But I told them, you know, my dad, the reason why I'M able to do all this stuff and know the things that I know is because my, my dad, you know, through all the stuff we mentioned earlier here, he was able to still learn about, you know, our culture and, and practice that even through all those attempts to make us not anymore. And that's the greatest gift I could have ever received. And so I told, you know, the team that I really want to highlight and uplift my dad. And he deserves all of that recognition. So I do think you're gonna see a lot of him. And anytime I post anything anyway on social media, they're like, we don't want this. We want your dad. More videos of your dad. So he deserves it.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

He.

[Heather Duville]

He's awesome and he's so funny and this little subtle dry humor is, you know, there throughout. So I'm excited to see.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

It's kind of nice. I didn't have a chance to. Heather wasn't a hunter and went out so much of this. Raymond did a lot of it. Then she moved away and came back and she goes out with me every opportunity. She's learned a considerable amount. Much more than Raymond actually, but different because he's paying attention to the cultural part of it. And I was going to say I was going to go King's Hammond fishing. It wasn't my intention just not to go. But I got Covid just days before the season opened and just knocked me totally out of the game. So once I missed that part of it. I don't care about cohos. That's too much work for the amount of pay you get. And now it's 17 king salmon. This doesn't get my heart started. So I'm just having a good time.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. How. If you did go to get the 17, how long would you expect to fish? To catch the 17?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

1 day or not even a day.

[Steven Rinella]

A one day season.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah. So last time we had a one day fishery, which was three years ago, I got over a hundred.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Heather Duville]

Dad was out there, two old guys. I think his crew is what, in your. His 70s too?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Heather Duville]

And they were. They did so good. I think they got the most or second most out of the fleet. Dad comes back. I help dad with all his healthcare stuff, appointments and everything. So I've learned the older he gets.76 now, but to always book an appointment because he comes back with a broken back or needing back surgery. So he does all his maintenance in the winter.

[Steven Rinella]

All his repairs on himself.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah. Or what. Steroid injections in his hands and everything to keep him going.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Lots of repair Work. The older you get, everything hurts. You know, I fished for many, many years. It's just like 24 hour openings on Hal, but you spend it all at the roller hauling in fish. You know, I got some good video of doing exactly that. But yeah, you come home and for two or three days your hounds are. But yeah, you loaded the boat and did really well, you know, so.

[Heather Duville]

I didn't learn how to hunt until I was 28. I never punted at all. Never shot a rifle. So that was last year. I'm just kidding. I'm 39, but I'm gonna be 29 forever. But anyway, when I started hunting with my dad, I would take one of my best friends, guy friends with me, and we'd go with him and he packed two deer out at a time till he was 69 years old. And we looked at each other. I'm like, we just have to be able to pack one deer out until we're that old. So he's. He's a badass and he's. Yeah, tough and it's hard to believe.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

I'm gonna mess around, though.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, man, I appreciate that you came to talk to us and tell people, tell everybody. Like, when, when can they come watch? When will they be able to watch all this stuff?

[Heather Duville]

This fall, this, I believe in September. Am I allowed to say.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just go and see.

[Heather Duville]

I think September. I don't have a date, actually, but this September, this next month.

[Steven Rinella]

And is it going to be called Our Way of Life? For real?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Is that a word title?

[Heather Duville]

So it's called Our Way of Life in our language it's Hakustei. So yeah, look for. I'm excited.

[Steven Rinella]

It's September 29th. Good job.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Perfect.

[Heather Duville]

Thank you.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And meteor YouTube channel and outdoor channel. So there you go.

[Steven Rinella]

8:00Pm okay.

[Heather Duville]

Is my first time learning this.

[Steven Rinella]

I know.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So there you go.

[Heather Duville]

Thank you. Seth.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

How. How fluent are you?

[Heather Duville]

We're not fluent.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

You're not?

[Heather Duville]

Yeah. So we know some words. Dad's, you know, my grandma was fluent, but then wasn't. Yeah, a lot of that was lost.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

For generation was still there boarding school. I'm too old. I forget everything I learned.

[Heather Duville]

So, yeah, I teach my nephew, you know what I know, and he picks up right away. So we try to use a lot of traditional place names and words and learn new words all the time. And that's something I really would like to do, is learn our traditional language.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, that'd be great.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah. But you know.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Is there anybody that kicks around in the village, like just Speaking the tongue. Someone else. There's a few.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Some of the older ladies can. Are affluent. Yeah.

[Heather Duville]

There's classes offered, too, through ua. I think it's uas, the University of Alaska. And then through the tribe, our regional tribe.

[Steven Rinella]

Mike, do you call Garrett Garrett, or do you call him Dirt?

[Heather Duville]

He calls him fat Ass, because when we're on the boat, you know, Garrett's amazing, incredible. You know, he's right there with the camera, but we all can't be on the same side of the boat at once. But when Garrett takes one step on the boat, the whole boat tips.

[Steven Rinella]

He's dense.

[Heather Duville]

He is. And he's not a big dude. I mean, he's fit. But finally, after we got. We were filming the first time we all met, we filmed for three weeks straight for 21 days. It was a lot. And it forced us to get very comfortable with each other. So after a few days, my dad just started calling him a fat ass because.

[Steven Rinella]

Sure, I understand.

[Heather Duville]

But he lost weight. So when he came back this time, we're like, hey, you're not as fat anymore.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, but I noticed he's got a little tin of dip there, so I thought maybe him and Dirt formed a little. Yeah, I heard about the Dip in Africa partnership. Yeah, we call it diplomacy.

[Heather Duville]

It was like he gave us a detailed description and was telling my dad about how awesome.

[Steven Rinella]

Diplomacy with Dirt Myth.

[Heather Duville]

We call him. I call him Garrett. But we couldn't have asked for better people to work with. They're a lot fun. Dad. Dad's got his own way of communicating. So the last day goes, I'm thinking about going fishing tomorrow, and that's, like, his way of inviting you. And Dirt goes, oh, yeah, I'll go. And Samantha goes, yeah, I want to go too. And dad just ignores her, and she goes, actually, never mind. I'm going to go to the coffee shop and get salt cream puffs tomorrow morning instead, because we could tell they just wanted to go out and hang out together.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

No, it was crappy. And I think she changed her mind anyway.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So we were. What were we doing? Oh, we were waiting for the last set of hooks. It took us a while to catch a fish. Yeah. While we're waiting, I cruised over, and we're gonna see if there's any cohorts here. So we did catch cohos. And I never seen anybody get so excited as Garrett.

[Steven Rinella]

Huh. Have you ever eaten dinner with them?

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Totally.

[Steven Rinella]

I knew you were gonna bring that up. You talked about that last night.

[Heather Duville]

Everything's like a brand new experience. I go, wow, look at this. Oh, the sunset. You know, I go, look at the sky. So pretty tonight.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Y. But I've never seen anybody get so excited over catching a few cohos, you know?

[Heather Duville]

Yes.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

So the girls were in the other boat, and they were fishing as well. And anyway, it's a good time.

[Steven Rinella]

He's a good guy.

[Heather Duville]

He is.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining us today to talk about what you guys got coming up. And I appreciate you participating in it.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

With Heather. I appreciate you coming to discuss it with us.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And for you, one of the most fun things I do in my life is getting that boat and go cruising. And you have the right idea. Thank you.

[Steven Rinella]

There you go, Jimmy.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

That is. I spent a lot of time in there. I've had it since 91. And that's number six outboard on it, so.

[Steven Rinella]

Huh. Hear that, Dad?

[Heather Duville]

I just found. Finally. I searched Craigslist for years trying to find a boat like that, and I found the same boat. 91. Exact same boat.

[Steven Rinella]

It's the year I was born.

[Heather Duville]

There's one for sale in my town right now.

[Steven Rinella]

I just gotta see if they got flat black paint.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah. Yeah, you gotta have flat black.

[Heather Duville]

But when dad. When we try to mic them up now, they learn to give me the mic to give to him. And I tried to do it, and he said, I'll put this on when I'm ready. So we're like, okay, we just set it in the dash now.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

And we're not doing anything yet. You don't need this on for an hour before you're. You know.

[Steven Rinella]

That's right.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Okay, we're done.

[Heather Duville]

We just. Yeah.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

He goes, you never know what I might say, so, you know, I understand. Are we gonna skip skin a sea Otter now?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, we're gonna do it as a separate thing.

[Heather Duville]

Yeah. I'm worried. On the cruise over here, we saw a bunch moving in here on you, so they're common.

[Steven Rinella]

I've seen more this year than it's been. Amazing, man.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I've never seen, like. It's just so recently. It's just like they were just here. It was the first one maybe five years ago now. It's the first time you ever see where you can look and there's like, a group of a dozen, then there's a group of six. It used to be, like, people would be like, I saw one. Everybody be like, no, you did not.

[Heather Duville]

We saw.

[Steven Rinella]

We'd argue about it.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

We could have thinned those when we first came here, but they must have moved out in the middle of the bay or something.

[Steven Rinella]

They lay out deep. I don't understand it.

[Heather Duville]

It's different than on our side. You go to the same spots and they're there, big pods of them. But here, you know, I marked. I marked on my onyx where they were in the depth and how many. I try to collect data as much as I can on sea otter, but then we went back out, what, half hour later, and they're all gone.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Heather Duville]

Whereas on our side, they just all stay. And if. If you scare them away, they'll come right back to that.

[Steven Rinella]

These are nomads, man.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

As a general rule, when you spook them bad, they try to get to open water. I think that's what those did.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it. Well, we're going to skin one on camera just so people can see and it'll be released as a flop episode. Flop.

[Heather Duville]

Okay, we're ready.

[Steven Rinella]

Good. Thanks. Thanks again for coming on. I can't wait to see it. I think people are gonna love it, man.

[Heather Duville]

I hope so.

[Steven Rinella]

I think it's gonna be such. Because I. I like what the time I've had to hang out with you guys. I thought it was great.

[Heather Duville]

Thank you. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a little different. Got the same. Same soft voice. I think I'm talking fast, you know, and I'm. I listen to myself. I'm like, what is that? How slow I talk? So it's gonna be a little different pace, I think.

[Steven Rinella]

Talk just fine. You're good.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

You'll get used to it.

[Steven Rinella]

You'll be in good shape. Thank you again.

[Mike (Heather's father)]

Yeah. All foreign.

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[Heather Duville]

E dot com this is an I Heart podcast.