The MeatEater Podcast, Ep. 769: Can Conservation Be Non-Partisan?

Air date: September 29, 2025
Host: Steven Rinella
Guest: Benji Backer (Founder, Nature is Nonpartisan)
Also featuring: Cal, Randall

Overview

This lively episode centers on one of today’s most urgent and divisive questions: Can conservation truly be non-partisan? Host Steven Rinella welcomes Benji Backer, a youthful but seasoned activist and founder of "Nature is Nonpartisan," to dissect historic and current divides in America's environmental movement. The conversation ranges from political history to modern polarization, the impact of online discourse, and the quest to build a durable, cross-party conservation culture.

With humor and authenticity, the crew explores why issues like public lands, wildlife, and water are so often caught in political crossfire—and what it will take to nurture a movement (“like support the troops”) that transcends party and endures, no matter who’s in power.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Can Conservation Be Non-Partisan? (02:36–04:13)

• Benji Backer: Nature is nonpartisan, or at least, it once was:

  “You could be the trumpiest voter in the world, or you could be an AOC lover and anything in between, and you want those same things.” (03:38)

• Bipartisan roots: EPA, Wilderness Act, and major conservation victories were historically broad-based.
• Challenge: Modern politics doesn’t reflect shared values—public desire for clean air, water, access to outdoors—due to increased partisan vitriol and culture wars.

Memorable quote:

“People just need to realize it. We got to get out of our algorithms... the biggest environmental achievements throughout history were immensely bipartisan.”
—Benji Backer (03:13)

2. Political and Cultural Forces Shaping Conservation (13:00–14:25, 50:08–57:49)

• The panel discusses examples from recent conservation history (e.g., Wilderness Act, EPA under Nixon, buffalo management).
• Benji’s personal journey from being a young conservative activist to launching nonpartisan conservation movements.

Key insight:

• Environmental protection has become entangled in the “two-party” system, with advocacy groups often only impactful (or perceived as legitimate) when “their” party is in power.

Notable quote:

“What about an organization that’s just trying to move consistent conservation through, no matter what, and no matter who you are politically?”
—Benji Backer (47:35)

3. Case Study: Florida Bear Hunt & Advocacy Tactics (20:07–34:02)

• Breakdown of Florida’s bear hunt policy, quota systems, and social reactions.
• Sierra Club’s tactic: buying up bear hunt lottery tickets so hunters can’t use them—a “protest via paperwork” that highlights both the passion and partisanship of modern environmentalism.
• Questions of whether such maneuvers help, hurt, or just reinforce polarization.

Quote:

“Florida’s attitude is, you guys can buy all the tickets you want. That’s great for conservation. You’re generating all this.”
—Steven Rinella (30:24)

4. The Role of Online Polarization & Real-Life Experience (57:49–64:05)

• Social media exaggerates division, compared to everyday American interactions.
• Benji’s experiences with both left- and right-wing attacks; close relationships beyond ideological lines (e.g., friendship with Van Jones).
• Steven describes his temptation to exit public discourse amidst the toxicity of online “boxes”—but ultimately sees value in rational, cross-partisan engagement.

Quote:

“We are convincing ourselves that everyone else is actually evil, like Hitler-level evil... but we’re becoming a chronically online nation.”
—Benji Backer (60:02)

5. How to Shift the Conservation Culture (68:03–77:03)

• Current advocacy organizations do good work, especially in the “hook and bullet” (hunting/fishing) space, but there’s no unified, broad-based cultural campaign for conservation.
• Analogy: What if “caring for the environment” became an uncontested, expected part of American identity—like “support the troops”? (90:46–93:43)

Quote:

“I want to make caring for the environment like: ‘Support the troops.’ Where everybody—left, right, center—has reason to claim it, and every politician has to have it as a feather in their cap.”
—Cal (91:11)

• Benji outlines the challenge: conservation asks are complex and local, not a “one trick pony” like legalization of weed or marriage equality (83:21–90:37). Yet the movement must tap local concerns to build bigger coalitions.

6. Obstacles in Funding, Philanthropy, and Nonprofit Incentives (117:58–127:01)

• Philanthropic dollars often drive environmental organizations’ messaging, sometimes pulling them out of touch with local realities.
• Many rural, agricultural, or “on-the-ground” conservation actors bristle at national group messaging, feeling patronized or ignored.
• Organizational incentives can favor “perpetual problems” over solving issues, since solving them may mean the nonprofit loses its relevance and funding.

Quote:

“A nonprofit only exists if they get the money and you only raise money if there are problems… is there an incentive to solve the problem then? No.”
—Benji Backer (120:44)

7. Tactical Lessons: When & How to Create “Friction” for Conservation (135:08–137:44)

• Benji outlines his organization’s approach: only oppose policies when there’s a winnable, mass coalition; prefer to be “for” things, not always “against.”
• Avoid dying on every hill just to look relevant—the focus is on outcomes, not headlines, fundraising, or performative opposition.

Quote:

“If there’s an overwhelming, winning coalition of Americans where the politicians are so out of touch ... we’re going to show them they’re out of touch.”
—Benji Backer (135:57)

8. Looking Ahead: Building the Movement (130:36–134:26)

• Nature is Nonpartisan, founded April 2025, will soon launch “United by Nature”—a national narrative campaign and events, seeking broad cultural buy-in.
• Plans include a bipartisan Senate caucus, music/concert events (possibly at Yellowstone), national ad campaigns, and intentional inclusion of both liberal and conservative leadership and staff.

Quote:

“We’re going to try to make this ‘United by Nature’ the calling card for ‘support the troops’—we are united by nature, whether that’s your Salt Lake, Everglades, or Beartooth Mountains.”
—Benji Backer (131:00)

9. Authenticity and the Power of the Rational Middle (141:26–145:26)

• True conservation wins are more important than organizational wins.
• It’s critical not to put people in ideological boxes, but to focus on building a “rational middle” that politicians cannot ignore.
• Success will require breaking out of the “nonprofit competition” mindset and seeing conservation as bigger than politics or credit.

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “We got to get out of our algorithms here and realize that it actually once was nonpartisan.”
  —Benji Backer (03:13)

• “The health of our environment is about the health of us too. And right now, we are failing miserably. And the left doesn’t care. And the right doesn’t care. ... They care about winning the next election.”
  —Benji Backer (56:55)

• “If there’s a theme in wildlife management: When you have a species that becomes imperiled, you stop hunting... then over time you recover it, you will naturally—like, you’re gonna have friction when you want to reinstate a hunt.”
  —Steven Rinella (23:38)

• “The current environmental culture is not working for us. ... There’s no space for politicians to see they have to get something done except for the public lands sell-off as literally the first example in like a decade.”
  —Benji Backer (73:27)

• “The environment is ours to take care of and develop and work with and conserve so that future generations can also exist.”
  —Benji Backer (81:46)

• “What about an organization that’s just trying to move consistent conservation through, no matter what, and no matter who you are politically?”
  —Benji Backer (47:35)

• “This is not some kumbaya shit. But 80% of the time, there’s actually a lot of agreement.”
  —Benji Backer (93:15)

Key Timestamps for Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:36–04:13 | Framing nature as non-partisan; bipartisan roots, need for cultural shift | | 13:00–14:25 | Historical examples: Nixon, EPA, Wilderness Act | | 20:07–34:02 | Deep dive: Florida Bear hunt, advocacy strategies, Sierra Club, quotas | | 47:03–50:08 | Benji’s journey from conservative activism to nonpartisan conservation | | 56:55–57:49 | Systemic failures: both left and right fail environment | | 60:02–62:20 | Anatomy of online polarization vs. real life | | 68:03–73:27 | Where advocacy organizations succeed and fail; need for unified, mainstream campaign | | 90:46–93:43 | The “support the troops” analogy for conservation | | 117:58–127:01 | Philanthropy & nonprofit world, donor influence, risks of performative advocacy | | 130:36–134:26 | United by Nature campaign and next steps | | 141:26–145:26 | Moving past competition, focusing on collaboration and authenticity |

Takeaways

• Conservation has long-standing bipartisan roots; the contemporary divide is more a product of culture wars and politics than genuine disagreement on core values.
• Overcoming polarization requires broad cultural buy-in and a “big tent” approach—going beyond hunting/angling groups to mobilize all outdoor and nature-loving Americans, regardless of party.
• Sustainable conservation wins depend on building pressure from the “rational middle” and resisting incentives for advocacy organizations to prioritize perpetual conflict over solutions.
• A new movement—like Benji’s “Nature is Nonpartisan”/“United by Nature”—aims to make environmental concern a matter of national pride and identity, not a partisan wedge.
• Real progress will require humility, coalitional thinking, and a willingness to put outcomes over headlines—or credit.

This episode is essential listening for anyone who cares about bridging divides, leaving a conservation legacy, and making American nature a cause we can all claim as our own.