The MeatEater Podcast Ep. 772: Bullwhacker, Dinky Rifle Calibers, and Whitetail Bucks | MeatEater Radio Live!
October 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this lively Radio Live edition, host Brody Henderson is joined by Randall Williams, Jordan Sillers, and several special guests to explore a range of hunting and conservation topics. The episode focuses on a major public land access victory in Montana, the effectiveness of smaller rifle calibers for big game, and cherished whitetail buck stories to celebrate Whitetail Week. True to MeatEater’s ethos, the conversations are candid, insightful, sometimes irreverent, and always rooted in a deep appreciation for the outdoors.

Main Segments & Key Discussions

1. Intros, Team Catch-Up, and New Content at MeatEater (01:04–07:05)

• Host and Panel Introductions:
  Brody introduces the crew and outlines the episode’s packed agenda.

• Whitetail Week at MeatEater:
  The team discusses Whitetail Week sales, new content drops, and a state-by-state whitetail hunting competition.

• Jordan Sillers’ New Podcast: Blood Trails
  Jordan announces "Blood Trails," a new true crime podcast focused on hunters and outdoorspeople.

  • Jordan Sillers: “We have eight episodes coming out in this first season. We have a story of a hunter who disappeared under very suspicious circumstances ..." (04:11)
  • The show promises factual, empathetic reporting, not just retreads of published stories.
  • Randall Williams: “This is very much like straightforward, empathetic reporting about pretty tragic situations.” (06:44)

2. Interview: Mike Kautz of American Prairie on Public Land Access and Conservation (07:05–27:11)

Who is American Prairie and What Are They Doing? (08:30)

• Mission: Restoring and preserving Montana’s shortgrass prairie ecosystem, working to acquire and connect large tracts for habitat and public recreation.
• Scope:
  • 603,000+ acres managed
  • Land acquired via willing seller/willing buyer
• Mike Kautz: “Eventually we have enough habitat to restore an intact prairie short grass ecosystem ... we've done over 50 land transactions at this point.” (08:30–09:13)

Addressing Controversy and Local Pushback (09:27)

• Brody asks Mike to address the visible opposition ("Save the Cowboys, Stop American Prairie" signs).
• Mike Kautz: “Any big conservation project is not without controversy ... we've had to go out there and earn trust, say what we're going to do and then back that up with action.” (10:09)
• The organization maintains ranching on much of their land and manages both bison and cattle; bison are not wild/free-ranging (12:59).

Land Management, Misinformation, and Community (14:00)

• Correction of rumors:
  • Funding (97% domestic, not Dutch)
  • Bison origin (from Canada, not directly Yellowstone)
• Mike Kautz: "A lot of that controversy is simply coming from a lack of understanding of what we actually do." (12:30)

Public Access and Acquisitions: The Bullwhacker Road Victory (15:10–27:11)

• Most properties open to year-round public access (hiking, camping, hunting, fishing).
• Major News: Acquired Anchor Ranch/Bullwhacker Road, unlocking 50,000 acres of previously landlocked public land for recreation.
  • Mike Kautz: “We opened the road right away and said, look, this one's too important to sit on ...” (17:00)
• Prioritizing public access and partnering with state’s block management hunting programs.
• Future Vision: Continue expanding access, maintaining transparent public access policies, newest tract open to access but not hunting yet (22:18).
• Invitation for the public: “Come out and visit us, come out and see what it looks like on the ground.” (26:21)

3. Whitetail Throwback Thursday: Personal Buck Stories (28:47–37:59)

A fun storytelling segment where each panelist shares a memorable whitetail buck experience:

• Randall Williams:
  Tells the story of his biggest buck, lost his job, committed to a nine-day hunt in Kentucky, and scored with a well-placed .45-70 shot.

  • “Did the old Texas heart shot ... entered just inside of the ham right near the anus, came out the front of that left hip ...” (31:59)

• Jordan Sillers:
  Shares a recent hunt in East Texas—the thrill of shooting a buck with his son present for the first time.

  • “If hunting ever becomes boring ... take an 8-year-old boy ... because he was the most excited.” (34:59)

• Brody Henderson:
  Recounts shooting his first mature Pennsylvania buck—a rarity pre-antler restriction regulations.

  • Notes how point restrictions changed hunting culture and buck size in PA.
  • “In Pennsylvania ... you shot whatever buck you had a chance to shoot. This picture was taken ... after [antler point] restrictions.” (35:51)

• Consensus: Proper management can dramatically shift deer age structure; personal stories highlight how family and memory shape hunting traditions.

4. Live Q&A: Gear, Hunting Ethics & Methods (38:16–45:35; 68:35–78:52)

Selected Highlights:

• Alpaca vs Merino Wool (38:18):
  Directs to product experts; minimal personal experience with alpaca.

• Venison Hot Dogs (38:50):
  The panel hasn’t made them, but is intrigued by the challenge of creating a good texture and snap.

• CWD Testing (39:31):
  Brody recommends testing all deer and elk harvested, especially in endemic areas.

  • Brody: “I've just gone to getting them all tested now.” (39:42)

• Introducing Kids to Hunting (41:17):
  Brody and Jordan advise starting with observation, unless the child has trained and really wants to try shooting; emphasize focusing on a fun, low-pressure experience.

• The Crossbow Debate (42:45):
  The hosts debunk fears that crossbows will decimate deer populations or violate hunting spirit.

  • Brody: “The arguments against crossbows ... I just don't get it. ... It's just a never-ending cascade of arguments.” (45:07)
  • Jordan Sillers: “Whatever species population, that should be the first concern.” (45:30)

• Packable Sleds and Game Recovery (68:52):
  Sleds are great in the right conditions—deep snow—but often humping out meat in a pack is more reliable.

• Meat for Landowners (78:08):
  Consensus is to clarify beforehand; many landowners don’t expect or want meat, but offering is courteous.

5. Guest Interview: Tyler Friel on “Dinky Cartridges” for Big Game (46:30–64:57)

Background (47:10)

• Tyler is an Outdoor Life writer, podcaster, and Alaska hunter known for using small-caliber rifles for big game.

Hunting with Small Calibers: Experience & Rationale (50:43)

• Started with .25-06, .243, and .30-06 for sheep, moose, and bear.
• Critiques the hype and hate around 6.5 Creedmoor:
  • Tyler Friel: “Once the 6.5 Creedmoor got popular ... there was this kind of vitriol [against it] ..." (51:46)
• Real-world results prove effectiveness of well-placed shots, correct bullet selection, and modern bullet construction.
  • Tyler: “We've all seen... the advancement in some of these smaller caliber ... heavy-for-caliber projectiles ... and so I've started kind of getting further and further.” (52:20)

Bullet Technology (54:54–58:23)

• Modern heavy-for-caliber bullets have improved penetration and accuracy.
• Randall Williams: “The only thing when you're killing an animal, the question is ... what work that bullet does on that animal's tissue.” (57:54)

Terminal Ballistics, Magnum Arguments, and Shot Placement (59:05–60:49)

• Tyler refutes “hydrostatic shock”/energy dump justifications—placement and bullet quality matter most.
• Tyler: “Animal is gonna die ... might drop in its tracks ... or might not fall over for 15 or 20 seconds ... both were perfect shots.” (60:34)
• Reference to his video taking a Yukon moose with 22 ARC and an 88 ELD-M (61:00–63:29).

6. Dream Whitetail Hunts (65:02–68:35)

• Jordan: Wants to try a “Western whitetail hunt” (open country, glassing, rifle).
• Randall: Dreams of tracking Northwoods bucks in snow, Maine or Adirondacks style.
• Brody: Bucket-list is a Saskatchewan rut hunt—brutal cold, massive deer, out of comfort zone but highly appealing.
• Randall Williams: “One of the cool things about whitetails is there's just so many different ways you can do it.” (68:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Brody on Whitetail Week: “You don't even have to be a whitetail hunter to take advantage of this sale. There's all kinds of all-purpose stuff ...” (02:00)
• Mike Kautz on Trust: “We're not asking for support or endorsement ... but we do ask for understanding ... just understand what we're actually doing.” (24:36)
• Tyler Friel on Caliber Hatred: “There have been quite a few fairly ignorant opinions on ... saying it can do things it can't do—or shouldn't really be used for.” (51:46–52:20)
• Randall Williams on Bullet Construction: “The only thing when you're killing an animal, the question is ... what work that bullet does on that animal's tissue ... the bullet is really like ... the most important part of the equation.” (57:54)
• Brody on Crossbows: “The arguments against crossbows ... it's just a never-ending cascade of arguments ... method of take arguments that end up just being horseshit.” (45:07, paraphrased)

Additional Resources Mentioned

• American Prairie (Public access, bison lottery, conservation info): americanprairie.org
• MeatEater Whitetail Week: themeateater.com
• MeatEater American History: The Hide Hunters audiobook, available October 14th

Listener Q&A – Key Timestamps (selected)

• 38:16—Alpaca vs. Merino wool
• 38:50—Venison hot dogs/brats
• 39:31—CWD testing practices
• 41:17—First hunt with a young child
• 42:45—Crossbows, long-range rifles, and method-of-take debates
• 68:52—Packable game sleds for meat transport
• 78:08—Etiquette: sharing meat with landowners

Summary

This episode stands out for its practical conservation news (Bullwhacker Road), expert-level firearm and ammunition discussion (Tyler Friel), and personal storytelling that grounds the meat-eating lifestyle in tradition and family. The show's tone is warm, comedic, and debate-filled, with respect for varied hunting approaches and clear-eyed skepticism of gear and ethics controversies. Panelists don't shy away from addressing touchy issues while encouraging curiosity, inclusivity, and engagement with the outdoors.

For more on public land access, rifle selection, or to reminisce about the good old days in the deer woods, this is an extra-rich episode for hunters and conservationists alike.