Transcript

Steven Rinella (0:00)

This is an iHeart podcast. Real Hunts rarely go as planned. That's where First Lights Navigator hoodie earns its place. Our crews have run it from September climbs to cold front sits it, manages temps, stays quiet and close encounters and wicks moisture on the uphill push. One layer that adapts without hesitation. No matter the pursuit, the Navigator delivers versatility in any situation. Shop now@first light.com that's F I R S T L I T E dot com. This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless.

Randall M. (0:54)

The Meat Eater podcast.

Steven Rinella (0:56)

You can't predict anything. Brought to you by first light. When I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds.

MeatEater Crew Narrator (1:05)

No compromise.

Steven Rinella (1:06)

Gear that keeps me in the field longer. No shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out@first light.com. that's F I R-S-T L I T E dot com. I got two things of major interest. Well, three things if you count Phil. Phil printed off the script of Christmas. What do they call that?

Phil (1:31)

A Christmas carol.

Steven Rinella (1:32)

Christmas carol. He printed the script off. He's been highlighting his lines.

Phil (1:38)

Who are you playing?

Steven Rinella (1:39)

Cratchit.

Phil (1:40)

Cratchit?

Randall M. (1:40)

Yeah.

Steven Rinella (1:40)

God. Seems like you'd play Cratchit.

Phil (1:42)

Robert Cratchit. It was only a matter of time.

Steven Rinella (1:45)

They didn't try to get you for Scrooge?

Phil (1:48)

Surprisingly not, no. I think maybe a few more years. Wait till I get in the 40s.

Steven Rinella (1:52)

Yeah, that was a joke. I don't think he'd be a Scrooge. You know what I could picture you being?

Phil (1:56)

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast

Ep. 777: So You Want to Be a Hide Hunter

Host: Steven Rinella
Guests: Randall M., Phil (and brief contributions from the MeatEater Crew)
Date: October 13, 2025

Overview

This episode dives deep into a pivotal and controversial era of American history: the age of the buffalo hide hunters (1865–1883). Using the release of their new audiobook "MeatEater’s American History: The Hide Hunters" as a launching point, Steven Rinella and Randall M. break down the economic, technological, and personal dimensions of the hide hunting industry, exploring how post-Civil War America launched countless men—even former Union and Confederate soldiers—into the business of hunting buffalo for profit. The conversation ranges from humorous asides and pop culture tangents to serious historical reflection, peppered with notable stories, wild facts, and candid grappling with the moral legacy of market hunting on the American ecosystem.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Banter, Projects, and New MeatEater Content

Opening banter (01:05–07:00): Lighthearted discussion about Phil's theater roles (“A Christmas Carol”), live tour ideas like "Interviews with a Black Bear," and a humorous brainstorming session on integrating holiday and hunting themes.
Product tie-in: Introduction of the new MeatEater American History audiobook “The Hide Hunters, 1865–1883” (39:21).
Tangential discussions: Mink fur in fake eyelashes, archaic sayings ("to a T"), and quirky stories involving buffalo fat ("depuyer") and caviar birthmark jokes.

"If you could interview any animal in the world, I would interview a black bear about, like, what he's up to, what he was thinking... Like, I could see why you might take a sip [of gear oil], but then... you kept eating it." – Steven Rinella, (07:41)

Defining “Market Hunting” Eras in America (31:00–41:00)

1. The Long Hunters (1763–1775)

Frontier market hunting based on familial expedition groups from western North Carolina and Virginia.
- Primarily focused on whitetail deer for skins traded as leather, especially to Britain.
- Emphasis on long durations ("long ass hunt").
- Noted for poor written records due to illiteracy.

2. The Mountain Men (~1806–1840)

Beaver trapping in the Rockies post-Lewis & Clark.
- Organized by corporations, not tied by kin but by employment contracts.
- Trappers like Jim Bridger ("employment agreement," 41:19) who signed up via newspaper ads.
- Industry collapsed with the rise of silk top hats and beaver extirpation.

3. The Hide Hunters (1865–1883)

Focus of this episode/audiobook: Commercial buffalo killing for untanned hides (flint hides).
- “Hide hunters” used systematic slaughter for leather—a shift from “robe” trade done artisanally by Native women.
- Marked by absence of American “heroes”; instead, this era is synonymous with the near-extinction of the buffalo.

Why No “Buffalo Hunter” Heroes? (46:00–50:00)

Public perception: Unlike Daniel Boone (long hunter) or Jim Bridger (mountain man), buffalo hide hunters achieved only infamy—no hero status.
Reason: Their explicit association with the near extinction of the buffalo meant their legacy was irredeemably villainized:

“When you get into the buffalo hidehunters...they virtually eliminate—kill about 15 million buffalo—until there’s less than 1,000 left...that crime has been pinned on them.” – Steven Rinella, (48:14)
Historical self-justification: As old men, many attempted to reframe their actions as contributions to “taming the frontier” (57:00–58:36), but their public reputation never recovered.

Connecting the Civil War & Frontier Chaos (64:08–87:18)

Demographic disruption: Many hide hunters were Civil War veterans (both Union and Confederate) or otherwise traumatized/displaced by war.
Scale of devastation: 700,000 combat deaths, entire cohorts wiped out in towns, 8% of white men aged 13–43 killed, large numbers disabled.
Career trajectory: Hide hunting seen as a “last resort” or pragmatic means of survival for war-ravaged young men.

“You have literally destroyed huge swaths of the country and people needed something to go do...a big impetus...is I feel that coming and saying all the hidehunters were these sadistic people hell bent on destroying American wildlife—it’s not accurate.” – Steven Rinella, (86:00)
Economic drivers: Railroads, layoffs, and the economic Panic of the 1870s compounded this mass movement west.

How the Hide Hunt Worked: Organization, Markets, and Methods (79:04–101:30)

Crew culture: Small, hierarchical outfits (shooters, skinners, cooks), easily transferable roles across “outfits.”
Siphon Migration: One relative’s success in the hide trade often “siphoned” in family and friends from back East.
Market structure: Unlike corporate-backed mountain men, hide hunting crews worked independently; buyers, not companies, ran the market.
Scale of harvest: Native women tanned ~10 hides/year; hide hunters regularly killed 30–40 buffalo per day.

Industrial Demand: The Leather “Boom” & Technological Context (110:15–116:21)

Exploding demand for leather belts in factories (pre-electricity) drove the market for buffalo hides (timing belts, factory drive belts).
Mythbusting: There was no single revolutionary tanning “discovery”; rather, gradual technological improvements and railroad access enabled the mass exploitation of buffalo hides.

"Buffalo leather just happened to sort of fall into the chute at the right time." – Randall M., (115:54)

Morality, Memory, and the Legacy of the Hide Hunt (123:08–126:39)

Waste and efficiency: Hide hunters DID waste huge volumes of meat—but also sold large amounts, wherever markets existed.
Hardscrabble life: Hunters were not “lazy” but opportunistic, harvesting even rotten hair for mattress stuffing (the “mop”).
Notable individuals:
- Elijah Cox, a formerly enslaved Black man and Army veteran, became a shooter through years of work as a cook and skinner (90:23–91:30).
- Some hide hunters rose to later fame: Bat Masterson, Pat Garrett, and possibly Wyatt Earp all spent time hide hunting before gaining notoriety in other fields.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“These were often people that had—NOT just little opportunity—no opportunity. And though we weren’t using this term at the time about trauma, being shell shocked...people coming out of horrific circumstances with absolutely no promise of employment.”
—Steven Rinella, (86:22)
“When you see mountain men from a historical standpoint, it's something very specific.… They’re not after the skin, they’re after the hair, which is…an interesting twist when you think about, like the fur trade in general.”
—Randall M., (38:01)
“There was a little device we use in these American history pieces where we like to bracket…the years that we’re talking about, which is—no, it’s true.”
—Steven Rinella, on how each audiobook installment is anchored in specific eras, (69:44)
On shifting self-justification:

"They tried to reimagine what drove them to do what they did in order to align themselves with things that were still okay at that time.…But as old men…they’d say, 'we were part of the American story…what we were really trying to do was open up the west for white settlement'."
—Randall M., (57:01)

Significant Segments & Timestamps

01:05–07:00 — Light banter, crew introductions, upcoming MeatEater projects
14:59–15:26; 26:30–29:05 — Historical trivia and humorous tangents ("the whole nine yards", caviar jokes)
31:00–41:00 — Definition and differentiation of Long Hunters, Mountain Men, Hide Hunters eras
47:22–50:07 — Why there are no “hide hunter heroes”
64:08–87:18 — The link between Civil War trauma and the rise of buffalo hide hunting
79:04–83:57 — The mechanics and migration patterns of hide hunter “outfits”
110:15–116:21 — Factory belt drives and the industrial appetite for leather
123:08–126:39 — Realities of waste, opportunism, and the daily grind of hide hunting

Tone and Style

Authentic, irreverent, and rich in historical details.
Balances comic anecdotes ("Marilyn Monroe" caviar joke, 20:14–21:13) and pop culture with deep, thoughtful exploration of American history and its ecological legacy.
Speakers frequently question each other’s assumptions, inject historical myth-busting, and challenge both popular and academic simplifications of this era.
No ad or sponsor segments included in this summary.

Conclusion

This episode acts as both a sneak preview and a passionate deep dive into "MeatEater’s American History: The Hide Hunters." It traces the evolution of America’s frontier hunting—from kin-based, legendary expeditions to the industrial-scale slaughter that nearly ended the buffalo. With candid historical analysis and a refusal to offer simplistic morality tales, Rinella and crew present the hide hunters not as cardboard villains, but as complex products of their time—traumatized, opportunistic, and sometimes desperate men who both shaped and were shaped by the making of modern America.

Further Exploration

For those interested in more detail:

Listen to the full “MeatEater’s American History” audiobook series: Long Hunters, Mountain Men, and the new Hide Hunters (release date: October 14, 2025).
Related reading: "American Buffalo: In Search of a Lost Icon" by Steven Rinella