The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 785: Another Attack On Our Public Lands

Date: October 30, 2025
Host: Steven Rinella
Guest: Jeremy Romero (National Wildlife Federation)

Overview

In this urgent, content-rich episode, host Steven Rinella and guest Jeremy Romero break down a new and underreported legislative threat to America’s public lands: Utah Senator Mike Lee’s “Borderlands Conservation Act.” They unpack how this bill, cloaked in the popular language of border security and search and rescue, proposes sweeping changes that threaten established public land protections, especially near America’s borders. The conversation provides a detailed, sometimes incredulous, analysis of the direct and indirect implications of this bill, how it fits into a longer history of such legislative attempts, and the necessity for public vigilance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Recent Conservation Setbacks

Timestamps: 01:00–06:45

• Steven outlines a series of recent conservation “setbacks” coming from the Trump administration and beyond, including:

  • Undoing the roadless rule.
  • Ambler Road resurrection in Alaska, facilitating foreign mining extraction through pristine wilderness.
  • Efforts to reopen drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).
  • BLM resource management plan reversals in Montana, Alaska, North Dakota.

• Steven contextualizes the Borderlands Conservation Act within a wider set of legislative pushes to increase resource extraction and industrialization on public lands.

Quote:

“The aim here is a push by the administration to increase resource extraction and industrialization.”
(A | 04:55)

History of Public Land Sell-Off Attempts

Timestamps: 06:46–09:00

• Past similar attempts to sell off millions of acres (notably by Jason Chaffetz in 2017) met with bipartisan pushback, particularly from the hunting community—surprising mainstream media.

• Senator Mike Lee reintroduced a repackaged version of such plans in 2025, this time using the language of “affordable housing,” though the real aim was unrelated.

• These legislative attacks often feature “fashionable buzzwords” divorced from the actual impact.

Quote:

“These plans... will carry fashionable buzzwords... but when you look at the details of the bill, it didn’t really do much to address affordable housing.”
(A | 07:44)

The Borderlands Conservation Act: Surface Rationale vs. Real Impact

Timestamps: 08:48–20:20

• What It Claims:

  • Jeremy explains the bill frames itself as addressing border security, proposing 100-mile buffer zones on US northern and southern borders.
  • Grants DHS (Department of Homeland Security) significant management powers over federal lands in these zones, enabling identification and legalization of “illegal” roads and trails created by border crossings.

• What It Actually Does:

  • Encompasses vast tracts of public land, including national parks, wilderness areas, forests, and more—far more than casual listeners might guess.
  • Leaves out tribal, state, and private lands, but otherwise sweeps in everything managed federally under DOI and USDA.

Quote:

“100 mile buffer to me is outrageous, right? ... It encapsulates a lot of country that they are claiming to be important for border security. ... It’s a little outrageous to think that a 100-mile buffer... is really going to lend to increasing border security.”
(B | 13:26, 14:53)

Memorable Moment:

• Steven and Jeremy struggle to comprehend how authorities could credibly identify a “trail created by illegal border crossing,” as opposed to one made by cattle, hunters, or off-road vehicles.
  (15:18–17:00)

Amending the Wilderness Act & Search and Rescue Loophole

Timestamps: 20:21–23:44

• The bill proposes amendments to the Wilderness Act of 1964, allowing building and managing roads and mechanized travel in wilderness areas under the pretexts of search and rescue and border security.

• Jeremy notes that most agencies already have emergency protocols that allow motorized access for search and rescue when absolutely necessary:

  • The proposed changes are redundant and dangerously broad
  • Crucially, the bill does not specify limitations to just these 100-mile buffers; it could set a precedent nationwide.

Quote:

“So technically it applies to all wilderness areas... If you can justify that building roads in wilderness areas is for the sake of border security... it can be any wilderness in our country.”
(B | 23:11)

The True Motive: Asset-Driven, Not Conservation

Timestamps: 27:50–33:40

• Steven broaches whether these regular attacks on public land protection represent a kind of legislative subterfuge:

  • Use of contemporary political crises (“affordable housing,” “border security”) to mask perennial goals of road-building and resource extraction.

• Jeremy’s view: certain lawmakers have an “asset-driven mindset”; they fundamentally see public land as a resource to be leveraged for profit, not a common good to be conserved.

Quote:

“Some people look at undeveloped landscape and they see wasted opportunity. I look at undeveloped landscape and I see an incredible asset in the nation’s bank...”
(A | 31:07)

Is This Legislation Serious, or Just Performative?

Timestamps: 33:06–36:53

• Jeremy and Steven analyze the bill’s seriousness:
  • Only a handful of co-sponsors.
  • Few senators from directly affected states support it (except for Texas’s Sen. Ted Cruz).
  • Possible that it’s a “temperature check” to gauge public and political reaction, rather than a bill expected to pass—though such bills can set dangerous precedents.

Quote:

“You would think that the states that are going to be impacted by this legislation would have more of a, of a perspective on the bill. … I just have to ask those questions.”
(B | 35:29)

• Steven makes a compelling analogy:
  • The core goal (“the wine”) never changes, but lawmakers keep slapping new “labels” on it to match the issue of the day.
  • “The bottle of the wine stays the same but you continue to apply a new label onto that wine.”
    (A | 38:27)

Next Steps: What Happens to the Bill?

Timestamps: 35:59–38:01

• The bill currently sits in committee (Senate Energy and Natural Resources).
• Odds of significant progress seem slim, but the issue remains important for advocates to track.

Quote:

“The fact that it was introduced is serious enough for me to want to talk to you about.”
(B | 36:53)

Call to Action & Civic Engagement

Timestamps: 39:53–41:43

• Jeremy urges listeners to go beyond bill titles and study what proposed laws actually do.
• Steven praises the bipartisan pushback seen on previous public land sell-off attempts.

Quote:

“I recommend people do their due diligence and look at bills, look at legislation, not just for what the title of the legislation is, but what the actual action items in legislation are.”
(B | 40:51)

Notable Quotes

• “The aim here is a push by the administration to increase resource extraction and industrialization.”
  — Steven Rinella, 04:55

• “100 mile buffer to me is outrageous, right? I mean we are talking from the southern border to almost Tucson, Arizona.”
  — Jeremy Romero, 14:53

• “If you can justify that building roads in wilderness areas is for the sake of border security, it can be any wilderness in our country.”
  — Jeremy Romero, 23:11

• “Some people look at undeveloped landscape and they see wasted opportunity. I look at undeveloped landscape and I see an incredible asset in the nation’s bank...”
  — Steven Rinella, 31:07

• “The bottle of the wine stays the same but you continue to apply a new label onto that wine.”
  — Steven Rinella, 38:27

Engaging Moments

• The hosts’ incredulity over how land use would be determined and managed (e.g., distinguishing “illegal” trails vs. legitimate ones) is both humorous and revealing.
  (15:18–17:00)

• The analogy of repackaged threats (“the wine stays the same...”) distills the heart of the conversation.

• The discussion of how such legislation might be performative, benchmarking public tolerance for future, possibly more dangerous, attempts.

Takeaways

• The Borderlands Conservation Act is framed as a border security bill but takes aim at vast swathes of public land and longstanding environmental protections.
• There’s a consistent legislative pattern: lawmakers repackage attacks on public lands with currently popular issues as cover.
• Hunters, anglers, and the broader public must look past bill titles and remain engaged advocates.
• The battle over public lands is ongoing, dynamic, and highly dependent on an informed, active public.

For listeners who care about hunting, fishing, outdoor recreation, and public land stewardship, this episode serves as a clarion call to vigilance—reminding us that what’s old can be made new again, and our stewardship responsibilities never end.