Transcript

Jordan Sillers (0:00)

This is an iHeart podcast.

Steven Rinella (0:04)

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Jordan Sillers (2:56)

That's good. Yeah, it's a good start.

Steven Rinella (2:58)

Gonna follow some serious blood trails. You guys listen to the show? Some time ago, on our. On our. On the Meat Eater podcast feed, we ran a thing called Blood Trails, and it was put together and hosted by Dr. Jordan Sillers, who's sitting with me right now. Not a medical doctor.

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast

Episode 787: True Crime in the Outdoors
Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Steven Rinella
Guest: Dr. Jordan Sillers

Episode Overview

In this episode, Steven Rinella and Dr. Jordan Sillers introduce and discuss the new MeatEater true crime series "Blood Trails," which delves into unsolved murders, disappearances, and crimes deeply rooted in the outdoor world—hunters, anglers, hikers, and public land users. The conversation is an in-depth, nuanced look at how complex, gritty, and personal these cases can be, with firsthand reporting, insights into investigative techniques, and respect for the victims and their families.

Key Themes and Discussions

1. Origins and Purpose of Blood Trails

Blood Trails grew from a test episode about an unsolved murder of a hunter in Virginia (David Stack) and has expanded into a series focusing on true crime within the outdoor recreation community (03:39).
Unlike many true crime podcasts, Blood Trails features direct conversations with families, investigators, and professionals involved, adding nuance and depth (09:00).

"I really wanted to make a point of talking with the people who were involved, whether that's the family of the victim, law enforcement ... what you're getting adds to the story." – Jordan Sillers (09:09)

2. Notable Cases Discussed

a. David Stack: The Unsolved Turkey Hunter (04:04)

Went missing on private land in Virginia; no suspects ever identified despite tight suspect pool.
Investigative challenges: large crime scenes, limited physical evidence, private property access.
The case exemplifies how evidence, not suspicion, is required for conviction (06:43).

b. Bob Christian: Vanished Bowhunter in Wisconsin (15:01)

Disappeared in 1977; found car with missing wheels, bow and hunting gear gone.
Unusual details: a nun reports her cabin lived in, a "young man" in a car matching Bob’s vehicle.
County line issues hampered communication between police jurisdictions, illustrating the impact of systemic problems on cases (26:08).

“If he'd been abducted, why would the abductor take his bow? ... It's kind of a weird thing to do.” – Steven Rinella (20:15)

c. Danielle Houchens: The Montana River Access Murder (34:29)

15-year-old went missing from a river access site after a minor argument; found drowned, sexually assaulted.
Investigators originally classified her death as "undetermined," keeping vital information from her family (38:26).
Decades-later investigation led to identification of the killer, a fisheries biologist active in the local hunting and fishing community (41:03).

“Turns out this guy—the murderer—hiding in plain sight, man. He doesn’t go far. Stays local.” – Steven Rinella (40:55)

d. Terry Brisk: Killed with His Own Gun (56:23)

Shot on family land in Minnesota during deer season (2016); his own gun, later found far from his body, used as the murder weapon.
Police withheld key details (such as wound location) to protect the investigation (61:35).

e. Ludger Belanger: Disappearance in Maine’s Big Woods (63:40)

1975 disappearance with substantial clues pointing to two suspects (never named), but no conviction or closure for the family.
Investigative leads sharpened by detailed snow/track analysis and found evidence (receipt), but family seeks only proper burial now (72:23).

f. Chong Moua Yang: 2018 Michigan Hmong Hunter Homicide (75:04)

Explored in the episode with a focus on the Hmong immigrant experience and racial tensions around outdoor access.
Investigation hindered by prevalence of racially charged comments and “too many suspects.”
Suspects found due to digital evidence (cell phone pings, texts), but one’s charges were later dropped; ongoing appeals (88:54).

“They go back there and hunt years later... and one of the guys texts with the photo: 'a couple of cold-blooded killers revisiting the crime scene.'” – Steven Rinella (92:27)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“A lot of true crime podcasts... are just working off Wikipedia pages. This series is not that.” – Steven Rinella (08:46)
“There are plenty, I think, for us to cover.” – Jordan Sillers, on outdoor-related disappearances (11:51)
“There’s always a million theories ... whenever anyone goes missing.” – Jordan Sillers (31:14)
“People close to the murderer ... don't want the story out there. I don’t feel that it’s taboo to talk about something like this.” – Steven Rinella (52:19)
“I always want to center the fact that there are real people involved ... These are real humans who have gone through the worst imaginable pain.” – Jordan Sillers (55:13)
“America’s the greatest document of governance … but, good lord, did we make it sometimes a little easy … you want to imagine a world where you can put the screws to people a little better.” – Steven Rinella (95:27)

Investigation Methods & Law Enforcement Challenges

Evidence Withholding: Police often purposely don’t release all crime scene details to catch suspects in lies or preserve the integrity of future confessions (62:01).
Cold Case Difficulties: Reinvestigations, lack of forensic evidence (especially in older cases), and jurisdictional issues play a major part in cases going unsolved.
Cultural and Racial Dynamics: Episodes like Chong Moua Yang’s companion broader social context—immigration struggles, integration of stateless people, and the scapegoating that occurs.

Empathy for Victims’ Families

Sillers emphasizes the importance of centering victims and their families, and giving them a voice—contrasting with true crime that treats cases as abstract puzzles. The human impact, desire for closure, and the open wound of not knowing are recurring themes across all discussed stories.

Critical Timestamps

[04:04] – David Stack murder: series origin
[15:01] – Bob Christian’s disappearance + the nun’s story
[34:29] – Danielle Houchens case: river access murder
[56:23] – Terry Brisk shooting
[63:40] – Ludger Belanger’s disappearance in Maine
[75:04] – Chong Moua Yang homicide, Hmong community context
[88:54] – Olson and Rodway case details
[92:27] – Text evidence in Michigan murder
[95:27] – U.S. legal challenges for investigators

Launch Details & Call to Action

Blood Trails launches October 30, 2025.
Episodes will be available on major platforms; listeners encouraged to subscribe/follow and send in tips to BloodTrails@themeateater.com (98:26).

"Please subscribe to the feed or ... hit the plus button or the follow button ... so you can follow along on Blood Trails." – Corinne (98:14)

Tone & Style

Throughout, Rinella and Sillers maintain a conversational, irreverent yet deeply empathetic tone—balancing dark subject matter with insight, humor, and respect for those affected. The storytelling is immersive, thoughtful, and sometimes laced with personal outdoor anecdotes that lend authenticity and immediacy to the cases discussed.

This episode is a must-listen for true crime and outdoor enthusiasts alike, offering a rare, richly reported intersection of mystery, wilderness, and the enduring human desire for truth and closure.

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Ep. 787: True Crime in the Outdoors