The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 790: The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald (Nov 10, 2025)

Overview

Host Steven Rinella dives deep into the legendary 1975 sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald on Lake Superior—an event seared into cultural memory thanks to Gordon Lightfoot’s epic song and the ongoing fascination with Great Lakes shipping. Joining Steven is author and sports historian John U. Bacon, whose new book, The Gales of November: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald, explores the lives of the 29 lost crewmen and the mystery that remains. The episode blends personal anecdotes, history, humor, and poignant storytelling.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Personal Connections to the Edmund Fitzgerald (02:34–04:45)

• Steven, born in the region, shares how the story haunted and inspired him.
• He dedicates the episode to his brother and the community at the Porthole in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.
• John U. Bacon notes regional quirks, like the twin Sault Ste. Maries (US and Canada sides), connecting the discussion to local hockey legends.

The Significance of the Edmund Fitzgerald (06:02–10:32)

• John U. Bacon details the vast scope of the Great Lakes—Lake Superior alone is bigger than Ireland, making it both an economic engine and a site of maritime peril.
• Quote: “Lake Superior is 160 miles by 350 miles. It’s as big as the state of Virginia. It’s bigger than Ireland… If you’re in the middle… you can’t see either side. It’s not because of the mist or the fog—it’s because of the curvature of the earth.” (06:02, John U. Bacon)
• WWII history: The Soo Locks as North America’s most crucial, heavily-guarded wartime asset due to ore shipping.

The Dangers of Great Lakes Shipping (10:32–14:34)

• Great Lakes more dangerous than the ocean: Steeper, closer waves, frequent storms, and the stress on enormous freighters.
• Waves as close as 4–8 seconds apart, far more frequently and brutally than ocean cycles.
• Quote: “These ships are 700 feet long… 26,000 tons of iron—that’s 4,200 adult elephants… one of these waves is the same weight as two locomotive engines.” (12:22, John U. Bacon)
• The “paperclip” analogy: Repeated structural stress can snap a ship, as happened with the Bradley (1958).

Gordon Lightfoot’s Song and Cultural Memory (14:36–16:05)

• Lightfoot’s “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” made the tragedy globally famous—without it, “there is no book.”
• Quote: “From 1875 to 1975, there are 6,000 commercial shipwrecks on the Great Lakes… and how many do we know? We know one. The Edmund Fitzgerald, for exactly the reason you said.” (15:24, John U. Bacon)
• Discussion of Lightfoot’s inspiration, the emotional and factual accuracy of the song.

The Work and Lives of The Crew (19:04–25:11)

• The Fitzgerald was part of a crucial industrial chain, hauling iron ore for auto and steel plants.
• Sailor jobs were dangerous but offered high pay and union benefits, especially compared to farming or mining.
• Touching stories: Bruce Hudson, a young deckhand, planned a life with his girlfriend and their soon-to-be-born child, unaware the last voyage would be his.
• Quote: “You gotta care about the guys before they get on the ship. That’s kind of my rule.” (24:10, John U. Bacon)

The Mechanics and Economics of Shipping (28:40–34:01)

• Iron ore came from northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula; shipped to factories below.
• Taconite pellets: innovation allowed the shipping industry to thrive after high-grade ore ran out.
• The Fitzgerald could carry enough ore for 7,000 cars per trip, making 50 runs a year—one ship could supply iron for millions of cars in its lifetime.

The Superstition and Launch of the Fitzgerald (34:01–39:24)

• The ship’s 1958 launch was fraught: champagne bottle wouldn’t break, a spectator died of a heart attack—ominous for superstitious sailors.
• Ships built to exact lock limits: narrow and long, which made them efficient but vulnerable in rough seas.

Ship Design and Wave Dangers (39:24–43:07)

• Ships were 75 ft wide but up to 1,000 ft long due to lock dimensions—this affected stability.
• Freeboard (distance from water to deck) regulations relaxed over time, which may have affected safety.

The Sinking—What Happened That Night (43:30–66:10)

• November Weather: Gales, locally-forming storms, and a dangerous warm spell set the stage.
• Navigational Struggles: Both the Fitzgerald and Anderson (another ore carrier) took a rarely-used "northern route" for calmer initial conditions, but risked a nasty final stretch.
• Captain Ernest McSorley, legendary for his courage and skill, led the Fitzgerald; this was to be his last trip before retirement.
• A navigational error may have led the Fitzgerald over the hazardous Six Fathom Shoal near Caribou Island; crucial instruments (radar, radio beacon, lighthouse) failed.
• Quote: “If you’re listing, you can’t steer properly. You’re much more in danger of capsizing when you’re going broadside.” (61:07, John U. Bacon)
• The final transmission: “We are holding our own.” (64:11, Ernest McSorley relayed by John U. Bacon)

The Aftermath and Theories (66:10–71:12)

• No consensus on the cause: possibly striking the shoal, possibly structural failure from wave stress.
• All 29 men entombed with the wreck—families largely declined efforts to recover remains, honoring the sailors' code.
• The wreck remains 530 ft deep, in two main pieces, with taconite still strewn across the lakebed.
• Families struggled with insurance and minimal compensation; lasting emotional scars.

Improvements and Legacy: No Major Shipwrecks Since (81:14–83:47)

• Advances in technology, communication, weather forecasting, and a new safety culture mean there have been zero comparable shipwrecks in the Great Lakes since 1975.
• Sailor’s code endures: when Coast Guard asked the Anderson to return into the storm to search for survivors, they did so willingly, despite the risks, because “We knew they’d do it for us.” (75:21, John U. Bacon)

The Families’ Stories and the Preservation of Memory (84:10–91:47)

• John spent months gaining trust, working with families so their stories could be told honestly and respectfully.
• Quote: “This is their one chance to tell their dad’s story in many cases.” (96:59, John U. Bacon)
• Intimate, multi-generational stories—including surviving children and grandchildren—transform the narrative from legend to lived, personal tragedy.
• Memorials include ringing a bell 29 times for each crew member, with children and descendants participating.

Gordon Lightfoot and the Song’s Creation (98:13–108:32)

• Lightfoot’s “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” was written the very night of the disaster, inspired by real-life weather in Toronto.
• The album version is a magical first take; attempts to re-record never matched the emotion.
• The song’s facts: some poetic license but largely praised for its accuracy and its ability to capture the spirit of the event for both families and sailors.
• Quote: “His description of the lakes… he nailed it. The family say that he nailed it.” (102:08, John U. Bacon)

Reflections on Journalism, Book Writing, and Hollywood (113:46–119:36)

• John U. Bacon shares frustrations with the media, emphasizing accuracy, respect, and giving sources control over their own quotes.
• Insights into book promotion, working with families, and navigating Hollywood adaptation offers—"two answers in Hollywood: Yes, and here’s a check." (117:31, attributed via Steven Rinella)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the ship’s scale:
  “It’s the same height as the Detroit Renaissance Center… 729 feet …but it’s no wider than the run from home plate to first base. It’s 75 feet.” (36:05, John U. Bacon)

• On generational sacrifice:
  “My kids run up to me… and I say, ‘No, daddy smells like a paycheck.’ That’s the life.” (34:01, John U. Bacon)

• On tragedy’s immediacy:
  “Whatever happened was fast. This guy is the best captain of the Great Lakes. If he had ten seconds to get on an SOS with coordinates, he sure as hell would have done it.” (64:46, John U. Bacon)

• On the enduring pain:
  “Once you know the story, the song kills you.” (22:38, John U. Bacon)

• On legacy:
  “We are holding our own.” —The last words from Captain McSorley, tattooed by a descendant as a memorial. (91:47, John U. Bacon)

• On journalistic philosophy:
  “If I’m talking to Brody or Steven, I say, we’re going to talk freely. I’ll send you your quotes, you’ll fix them as we need to. You have a right, I believe, to be quoted accurately.” (93:13, John U. Bacon)

Key Segment Timestamps

• 02:34 – Setting up why the Edmund Fitzgerald matters personally to the host/guests
• 06:02 – Lake Superior’s geography, scale, WWII significance
• 10:32 – Why Great Lakes shipping is more dangerous than ocean shipping
• 14:36 – How Gordon Lightfoot’s song preserves (and shapes) the legend
• 19:04 – The work, pay, and life of Fitzgerald’s crew—real people behind the myth
• 34:01 – The Fitzgerald’s superstitious and challenging launch
• 43:30 – The fateful final voyage: weather, route, captain’s decisions
• 61:07 – The actual catastrophe: evidence, theories, the final moments
• 81:14 – Shipping safety after Fitzgerald: “not one” comparable tragedy in 50 years
• 84:10 – Engaging the families, survivor’s stories, the personal impact
• 98:13 – Gordon Lightfoot’s creative process and the song’s immediate resonance
• 113:46 – Journalism, family trust, and the meaning of telling these stories honestly

Tone & Original Language

The episode is conversational, irreverent, and full of regional humor and pathos, but deeply respectful toward the tragedy and the dead.

• Sailor slang and technical terms are explained, sometimes in detail, but the podcasters trust their largely outdoors-savvy audience to keep up (“Frog here… You can do that all day long.” – Steven Rinella).
• Bacon is candid (“I’m taking advantage… those voyagers were badasses”), and Steven often prompts with genuine curiosity.
• Emotional moments—especially recalling families’ stories and last words—are met with respectful pauses.

Conclusion

This episode stands out as an emotionally rich, fact-filled exploration of a legendary shipwreck, but more importantly, it humanizes the men behind the myth, bridges music and memory, and chronicles how natural elements, industrial ambition, and ordinary lives collide on the Great Lakes. Both Steven and John deliver a show that is at once a tribute, a detective story, and a piece of living history—sure to resonate with anyone who knows the chill of a November gale or the echo of a bell rung 29 times.

Recommended for:

• Fans of history, music, and maritime adventure
• Anyone interested in how stories, songs, and families keep memory alive
• Readers of The Perfect Storm or Dead Wake
• Listeners seeking something both informative and moving

Find John U. Bacon’s book: johnubacon.com
Support the families and maritime preservation at: [Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum, Whitefish Point]

“We are holding our own.” — The last words from the Fitzgerald, echoed by every family who remembers.