Ep. 798: Bonus - Tis The Season To Be Hunting

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast

Episode 798: Bonus – Tis The Season To Be Hunting
Host: Steven Rinella
Date: November 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This lively, story-filled bonus episode features Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew reuniting for a throwback-style roundtable packed with fall hunting stories, outdoors news, wildlife law talk, and signature MeatEater banter. The group dives into hunting ethics, new developments in conservation, international wildlife news, and wild tales from their personal hunting seasons—including Corey Calkins’ epic Alaskan brown bear hunt and a deep-dive on the skills of top whitetail hunter Tony Peterson. The episode blends humor, field wisdom, and the candid camaraderie fans love, offering both hard-earned hunting insights and memorable laughs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Crew Introductions & Recent Adventures

[03:30–05:10]

• Steven welcomes a full crew: Spencer Newhart, Randall Williams, Corey Calkins, Ryan Callahan (aka “Cal”), and Phil.
• Randall is introduced as “fresh off killing a big buck,” Cal recently took a grizzly, and Corey helped friends fill freezers.
• Running jokes about “important chairs,” birthdays, and Phil's beloved ‘Cratchit Report.’

2. Hunting Ethics: The Case of the Gifted Knife

[06:00–09:30]

• Steven tells a story about losing, re-gifting, and eventually buying himself a special knife, raising an “ethical bind” about trading away gifts.
• Discussion touches on trading culture (“the red paperclip story”) and the odd journey of Steven’s Daniel Boone-engraved knife, which ends up with a Maasai warrior in Africa.
• Quote:
  Steven: “Is that like—you know what I’m saying?—an ethical bind?” [07:04]

3. Callahan’s Big News: Becoming CEO of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

[09:29–12:35]

• Cal shares he’s the upcoming CEO at Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, starting January 1.
• Reflects on his long involvement with BHA, the learning curve ahead, and board feedback on his strengths and shortcomings.
• Quote:
  Cal: “You definitely do hear about your faults from a board of people.” [11:29]

4. Blood Trails Podcast & Missing Persons in the Outdoors

[12:51–16:37]

• Steven plugs “Blood Trails,” their true-crime-in-the-outdoors podcast.
• Stories include hunters who went missing under mysterious circumstances.
• A recent Minnesota PSA urges hunters to watch for signs of missing people in the woods during deer season.
• The crew jokes darkly about “body hiding spots” but acknowledges the important role of hunters in occasionally solving cold cases.
• Quote:
  Steven: “It’s just another way the hunting community helps the general public at large.” [16:42]

5. Global Bear News: Brown Bear Attacks in Japan

[16:53–23:20]

• Discussion on a spike in brown bear attacks in Japan: 100 attacks, 10 fatalities in a year.
• Theorize causes: aging population, shrinking hunting culture, poor acorn harvest forcing bears into communities.
• Japan’s response includes defense force mobilization, bear spray distribution, and robot dogs.
• Memorable moment:
  • Mocking a news piece for calling it a “grizzly problem.”
  • Exploration of "bear spray culture" in the U.S.—who carries, who doesn’t, and how it ties to specific outdoor activities.

6. Wildlife Law & Enforcement Stories

[34:05–43:43]

• The tale of the Tennessee prison buck poacher—a man busted for hunting giant bucks on prison property; reflects on how society views wildlife crime.
• Insights on game wardens: their struggles to get “civilian” juries and judges to take wildlife crimes seriously, sometimes preferring specialized wildlife courts.
• Quote:
  Steven: “If I was king of the world, I’d make really strict wanton waste laws.” [59:47]

7. Land Back Movement & Tule Elk Restoration

[44:12–47:12]

• The return of 17,000 acres to the Tule River Indian Tribe in California, funded by the state, allowing reintroduction of tule elk and new wildlife enhancement projects.
• Discussion on the broader “land back” movement and indigenous stewardship.

8. Hunter Regulations: Evidence of Sex, Wanton Waste, and Tagging

[50:22–67:55] & [58:01–61:52]

• The group covers complicated state-by-state hunting laws: South Carolina’s restriction on transporting deer with head detached; Montana’s evolving wanton waste rules.
• Stories of field interactions with game wardens and disputes over what constitutes “evidence of sex” on a carcass.
• Quote:
  Steven: “I got a lot of respect for that occupation… you got to deal with that all the time. It’s a tough job.” [64:31]

9. The Alaskan Brown Bear Hunt: Cal’s Epic Tale

[75:27–105:33]

• Corey Calkins recounts his recent grizzly hunt on the Alaskan peninsula: severe weather, challenging terrain, encounters with massive bears.
• Detailed description of tracking, shot placement decisions, and recovery—spotlighting a tense moment with a charging brown bear.
• Discussion of bear meat as camp food (better than one expects, even if context matters a lot).
• Quote:
  Cal: “You don’t get that much time to decide, and things can change right away. But as I said, there’s no such thing as almost getting charged. You almost, you do or you don’t.” [101:12]

10. Whitetail Wisdom: The Tony Peterson Approach

[108:39–122:11]

• Steven and Spencer analyze what makes Tony Peterson one of the best public land whitetail bowhunters.
• Tony’s setup philosophy focuses solely on where a buck will be 20 yards, broadside—visibility and “wildlife viewing” are meaningless.
• Emphasis on perfect wind and an almost mathematical approach to stand location.
• Quote:
  Steven: “That dude sets up with one objective in mind. Where will you have a buck 20 yards away broadside. Nothing else matters.” [109:20]
• Spencer calls Peterson “the best public land bowhunter I’ve ever met.”
• They note Tony’s pragmatic indifference toward antlers themselves—he’s there for the hunt, not the trophies.

11. Listener Q&A and Regional Law Nuances

[49:07–67:55]

• Answering listener mail: South Carolina’s “still hunting,” nuances of drag and evidence-of-sex laws, and changing tag regulations.
• Differences in wildlife management philosophies between the U.S. and Canada and complaints from a Saskatchewan hunter.

12. Light-Hearted Closer: Whitetail Mounts, Basements, and Space

[124:13–127:13]

• The group winds down with banter about displaying antlers, the oddity of Montana homes without basements, and Tony Peterson’s surprising passion for astronomy.
• Quote:
  Randall: “Space is the opposite of everything you’ve described so far… as a deer hunter he’s all about the ultra-specific.” [123:55]

13. The "Cratchit" Report & Phil’s British Accent

[127:39–128:51]

• The team goads Phil into performing lines from Dickens’ Cratchit for a little holiday theater, wrapping up with laughter and holiday cheer.
• Quote:
  Phil (in accent): “God bless us, everyone!” [128:03]

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Additional Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Bear Spray:
  Steven: “Why is it that people bring [bear spray] according to what they're doing—not according to what the odds are?” [24:14]

• On Wanton Waste:
  Steven: “If you save [your old gazetteers], you're gonna die, and the first thing your kids are gonna do is throw them away.” [72:55]

• On Game Wardens:
  Spencer: “Game warden’s gotta know everything about everything… tough stuff.” [64:11]

• On Conservation:
  Corey: “We got a big voice and a lot of good things going for us.” [10:33] (On BHA)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:30] Crew introductions, recent hunting trips
• [06:00] The ethics of re-gifting and trading knives
• [09:30] Cal named BHA CEO & board process
• [12:50] Blood Trails podcast & missing persons
• [16:53] Brown bear attacks in Japan and wildlife/human coexistence
• [34:05] Tennessee prison buck poaching case
• [44:12] “Land Back” movement and tule elk restoration
• [50:22] South Carolina and Montana hunting regs, evidence of sex
• [75:27] Cal’s brown bear hunt: full story
• [108:39] Tony Peterson’s whitetail approach—how the best do it
• [124:13] Basements, antler displays, Tony’s outer space obsession
• [127:39] The Cratchit Report: Phil’s theatrical closer

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Tone & Style

The episode is classic MeatEater: sharp, irreverent, story-driven, and full of in-group laughs, honest field talk, and respectful but candid reflection on outdoor ethics, conservation, and the quirks of hunting culture—delivered in the crew’s authentic, conversational style.

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For Listeners:

If you missed the episode:
Expect a rollicking mix of hunting tales, conservation headlines, wildlife regulation debates, and a wealth of practical woods wisdom—plus plenty of signature MeatEater humor and camaraderie. Whether you’re new to the outdoors or a seasoned backcountry hand, you’ll come away entertained, informed, and ready to spend more late fall days in the woods.

Transcript

[Steven Rinella]

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[Spencer Newhart]

Auto parts.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm a big fan of Dude Wipes. I carry them. I especially carry them on backpack hunting trips. And if you got little kids, and I used to have several little kids, you will be quick to realize the benefits of They're Little Dudes products. Little Dude Wipes because little butts make big messes. Alcohol and chemical free Little Dude Wipes are wet extra large flushable wipes and they're the same size as the extra large Dude Wipes that you use. But you can wipe away the funk with Little Dude Wipes bubble gum made with 100% plant based natural fibers available exclusively at Walmart nationwide.

[Phil]

Hello everybody. You may have noticed that we did not air an episode of Meat Eater Radio Live yesterday because of the Thanksgiving holiday here in the good old US Of A. So in lieu of that, we decided to drop this bonus Meat Eater Podcast crew episode. It's Steve and the gang going over fall hunting stories, some newsy bits. It's kind of a throwback, right? And it was supposed to come out in December, so you'll hear references to things happening in December. And you can just ignore those because you're listening to it right now. And hey, while you're at it, why don't you go on over to themateater.com where we're having our big Black Friday blowout sale. From now through December 1, you can get up to 50% savings on things across the entire Meat Eater family of brands. I'm talking First Light. I'm talking fhf. I'm talking Dave Smith Decoys. I'm talking Phelps Game calls. I'm talking the Meat Eater Store itself. It's a Big family. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. And more importantly, we hope you are enjoying the holiday. Thank you.

[Steven Rinella]

This is the Me Eater Podcast. Coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We hunt.

[Randall Williams]

The Meat Eater podcast.

[Steven Rinella]

You can't predict anything. Brought to you by first light. When I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds. No compromise. Gear that keeps me in the field longer. No shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out@first light.com. that's f I R S T lIt.com. welcome to the show, everybody.

[Randall Williams]

That's a strong welcome.

[Steven Rinella]

Hell yes. Got a great lineup here today. We're going to do a bunch of news. We're going to do some updates.

[Randall Williams]

I have an item, actually.

[Steven Rinella]

Spencer Newhart's here.

[Randall Williams]

You can continue.

[Steven Rinella]

Fresh off killing a big buck. Randall Williams is here.

[Corey Calkins]

Fresh off of nothing.

[Steven Rinella]

Fresh off of nothing. Heartbreaker Corey Calkins. I remember you like the Culkins better. Calkins works better for me. Corey Culkins, fresh off of what? Helping some friends fill their freezers. Good deal.

[Corey Calkins]

That's a nice deal. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Ryan Callahan's. You're fresh from killing a big old grizzly.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, yeah, pretty fresh.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, he said he wants it. He wants an even bigger one.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, parts of me still smell like that.

[Steven Rinella]

I've been wearing your waders around and they're coated in that grease. They're like extra waterproof. Yeah, the water doesn't have a chance to get to the waiter because it's held up by. It gets blocked by grease before it can touch the waiter.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

If I may, this seems like a good time. Happy birthday.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, that's good enough. We get the point. Thank you.

[Steven Rinella]

How old are you?

[Corey Calkins]

43.

[Steven Rinella]

How are you? 1.

[Corey Calkins]

43. Yeah, that happened.

[Steven Rinella]

No one joins. That's cool, man. Halfway to 86. Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

I'm gonna take Friday, get kicked out of a bar.

[Steven Rinella]

And Phil's here. He's neck deep. He's neck deep into Cratchit.

[Corey Calkins]

Here we go.

[Phil]

The 12th edition of the Cratchit Report.

[Corey Calkins]

Nice.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, dude, I'm licking my lips. So since this hasn't released yet, have we already been there?

[Spencer Newhart]

This comes out December 15th, so yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I've already been there.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, and I'm still really weird.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, it was good. Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

I got really drunk that night, so.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't remember that Phil was the only guy that did any good.

[Randall Williams]

I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, wondering which ghost would come out.

[Steven Rinella]

Now everybody sucked except Phil, that's what we're doing this year, is we're changing the.

[Phil]

The order of the ghost. We shuffle it every night just to.

[Steven Rinella]

Keep people on their toes.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's a weird. This is nothing to do with anything, but just a weird ethics question. So. So my friend Mercer Long sends me this here. Well, sends me a pocket knife. Not this sends me a pocket knife with a Daniel Boone quote engraved on it. Just has a nice little friendship gesture. And it's got the quote, I was happy in the midst of dangers and inconveniences, which is a boon quote. He sends it to me, and I promptly lose it. Turkey hunting. So one year later, I go back to where I remember. I remember needing to fix something on a little knob. One year later, I go back to the knob, but I can't remember what knob it was. So I check a couple knobs, never acquire it. Tell him I lost the knife, the Daniel Boone knife. He sends me another one. I'm in Africa, and I run into these fellas actually using one of those friction boards to make a fire. They got the spindle in the wood, and I want that thing so bad, but I have nothing to offer for it. So I take Mercer's gift and trade it. And then I feel guilty. So then I went and ordered me up my own. Is that like. You know what I'm saying? So now seems like I was in a real bind.

[Randall Williams]

Like a gift that keeps on giving.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like an ethical bind.

[Spencer Newhart]

What's the value of that knife?

[Steven Rinella]

I don't know.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, but you could also just. Just say, like, I appreciated the gesture so much that I invested in it myself.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I bought myself, you know? Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

You would have bought you and about that on your own had he not started it.

[Steven Rinella]

No, no, no. I wouldn't even have thought about.

[Randall Williams]

It's also super cool that there's a guy in Africa going around with a knife with a Daniel Boone quote on it.

[Steven Rinella]

My kid asks my kid, my little one, he kind of was more. He was into that trade. He liked the politics of that trade. And he was, not too long ago asking me if I think that he's kept it sharp and if I think that people have been asking him about it. And I said yes. Well, I said no and yes.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because I don't know how he would. I don't know what he would have to like. He's probably honing it on a wet rock.

[Corey Calkins]

I would think that a big part of their conversation was like, yeah, great trade. Chunk of wood for A knife. But we also had to sit through 40 minute explanation of some dude.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Named Daniel.

[Randall Williams]

And he's like, I. They gave away a book of matches, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, listen, he didn't hesitate on the swap. He didn't hesitate.

[Spencer Newhart]

You both were satisfied afterwards. I think you should double down on this. Are you familiar with like the r little red paperclip thing or something like that? Someone starts with like a little red paperclip and they trade that for a pen and then they trade that pen.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, yeah, my kids always talk about that.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah, whatever. And eventually they end up with a house. Yeah, yeah, you could do that now.

[Steven Rinella]

So he went the wrong direction.

[Spencer Newhart]

No, I don't think he's on his.

[Steven Rinella]

Way to doing that.

[Corey Calkins]

You.

[Spencer Newhart]

You both like, elevated yourselves with what you received.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, like if I came to someone and said, yeah, this is genuine. Genuine. Yes, this is a genuine.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

And then you.

[Steven Rinella]

Friction board.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Do you know the backstory of this friction board? It could be a very valuable friction board for this story. Well, I got a picture of the guy. He's a Maasai warrior decked out with a Maasai spear. And that's his friction board. And I got a picture of him holding the knife.

[Spencer Newhart]

Okay. It's a good start.

[Steven Rinella]

So, yeah, man, I'll trade that for what, a house?

[Spencer Newhart]

Well, eventually.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, whatever.

[Spencer Newhart]

Once you like one acre, you're gonna.

[Randall Williams]

Have to start small.

[Spencer Newhart]

One acre to get to. So, you know, like 15 trades from now, you're gonna have an acre somewhere, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Wow. A lot of news we haven't covered. We haven't done a news show in a long time. We're gonna cover off on some interesting news, but the first bit of news we haven't talked about on the podcast is Callahan's big news. Callahan, you want to explain your big news?

[Corey Calkins]

Not your.

[Steven Rinella]

Not your bear.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. I am the incoming CEO at Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, which is. Is super cool. I start officially January 1st and organization I've volunteered with for over a decade at this point.

[Steven Rinella]

Have you really been on the board that long? Well, in various capacities.

[Corey Calkins]

In various capacities, yeah, exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Because. Yeah, I don't know, there's a lot of rules involving non profit boards and how they function, the bylaws. So like you can serve so long as just a board member at large and then you can serve longer if you become a committee chair or, you know, boring stuff like that.

[Steven Rinella]

But yep.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. So I'm super excited and very optimistic for the future of those organizations in general. But BHA Specifically because I think we got a big voice and a lot of good things going for us. Nonpartisan participation, particularly.

[Steven Rinella]

I think you're gonna do a good job, man.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, thank you very much.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm looking forward to it.

[Corey Calkins]

A lot to learn. Little scary. A lot of things I don't know which was kind of my.

[Randall Williams]

There's a lot of knobs and switches that you've never seen.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly.

[Randall Williams]

From your cockpit here.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly. And that's what I told the board when they asked me if I'd be interested. I was like, are you guys aware of all the things I don't know, like Excel spreadsheets, for instance? I hear those are big in CEO circles. So that was super cool to walk through that process with everybody. And you definitely do hear about your faults from a board of people.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, really?

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Already you've heard about them?

[Corey Calkins]

Yes.

[Spencer Newhart]

What are they?

[Steven Rinella]

They've already told you your faults.

[Corey Calkins]

We don't have enough time, Spencer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like. So we know you're probably not going to be good at.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And you're going to need help with. And then eventually you kind of get around to the good stuff. But we think you're going to be really good at. And you should be really good at. And, and yeah. So mostly balanced each other out. But yeah, that was, that was. That was great. So I'm real excited. And then of course, we'll continue to work with all you fellas here, which is kind of having your cake and eat it too. So.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, we'll be your mouthpiece. Dude. We need to come and tell people about something. Come tell them about it. Yeah. Cows, report.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly.

[Randall Williams]

You'll get to sit in this chair next time.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, Cal get to move up to the important chair. Always sits in that.

[Corey Calkins]

That's gonna be a hard transition for you folks.

[Steven Rinella]

He's gonna be over in the important chair. I don't know why he's there right now.

[Spencer Newhart]

This is the open one when I came in.

[Corey Calkins]

He's got a really good story.

[Steven Rinella]

He did shoot a big buck. Oh, that's why he's in that chair.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

I got, I got a buck. I got. I got a. I got a three pack buck story. I'm gonna tell too. Cal's gonna talk about his bear and I'm telling about my three pack buck story.

[Corey Calkins]

Nice.

[Steven Rinella]

Blood trails. If you guys been listening to Blood Trails, the podcast, it's been doing great, man. A lot of people listen to Blood Trails. And one thing we get into blood Trails, all the missing bodies. And what's totally weird about it is Crin finds this article. Well, let me. First Blood Trails is a crime series. It's all outdoor, like. Like murders, missing people, all the outdoor hunting and fishing twists. So it's like murder mysteries and other things, Cold cases that involve outdoor characters, hunting trips, various things. The first one we ever did was, we did one on a guy that was found by his hunting partners dead, shot in the back next to a turkey. Decoys. We did one on a guy in Maine, kills a buck. Clear tracks in the snow, drags the buck out to a road. There's tracks in the snow where a car pulled up, like, hey, can we give you some help? They can tell from tracks in the snow that the guy loaded the buck, that the buck was loaded into a car, the buck and the man never to be seen again. There's all these twists and turns. There's a blood trails about a guy, guy in Wisconsin meeting his buddy to go hunting. His car weirdly turns up with the wheels gone near one of his hunting spots, but not where he was supposed to meet his buddy and not when. Body never found. So that's a series you can go subscribe to and listen. But then here's the crazy thing that Crin sends me, like a news blip here. The Minnesota Department of Public Safety is asking hunters to be extra vigilant during the firearm opening. This is a news alert, right? Not only looking for deer, but also for signs of missing people. Basically saying, hey, a bunch of people out in the woods running around weird places. Keep your eyes out for discarded clothing in areas where it doesn't belong, or bones that do not appear to be from animals. Like a little announcement they made. Do not touch any of the items. Take photographs if possible. Save location on a gps, drop a pin, call the cops.

[Corey Calkins]

I bet I know where some bodies are disappeared to. Just because I feel like everybody here probably has the same thought process. When you come across certain spots where you're like, yeah, boy, if I ever had to, this would be it. Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

When a body does turn up somewhere, I usually think the opposite. Like, that's the best you could do for hiding a body.

[Steven Rinella]

Norm McDonald has a big bit about that.

[Randall Williams]

Like the city park, the hastily dug grave.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, it's a great one.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. He's got a bit about that where he's like, if he was going to kill someone, he'd start out by digging a really deep hole. Yeah. A thoroughly dug grave. Because he said they Always leave it as an afterthought. Yeah, this is. We're combining humor. Humor. We're putting in humor where it doesn't belong. Missing people. But that's what comedians do.

[Spencer Newhart]

This genre of podcasts is like quite popular now and, you know, media just doing its own spin on it. And there are now multiple examples of podcasters helping solve some of these crimes.

[Steven Rinella]

Sure.

[Spencer Newhart]

That were cold cases. So like, listen to blood trails and maybe something, you know, will. Will make sense for you.

[Steven Rinella]

We're going to do some follow up because some. We've already had some interesting things come in there.

[Corey Calkins]

It's just. Just another way the hunting community helps the general public at large. Another service we do for all of you who don't.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, here's one. You know that, that this year Japan has had 10 brown bear fatalities. Yeah, yeah, They've had a hundred. Japan has had 100 brown bear attacks. 10 fatalities.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Steven Rinella]

Listen to this. I want to pull this up. I was pulling up a news bit about it. You trying to do it. Corey, put that in your little thing or mabob there. They really see. Here's where new. This is news gone bad. Play this clip. Phil will probably say you can't because some stupid reason.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, for sure.

[Steven Rinella]

Mr. No, no. Did you call your lawyers yet? You know, I was reading the other day that actors aren't artists.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, okay.

[Phil]

I'll take that.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, he. Yeah, thanks.

[Randall Williams]

Is that an opinion piece or.

[Steven Rinella]

Or it was in the comment section to a thing and he was. He raised points. They don't write their own lines. They don't pick their own costumes. They don't do what they want to do. They got to do what the director says. They're not artists. I thought about Phil.

[Corey Calkins]

All right.

[Phil]

I don't even have a quippy retort to that. Steve will just move.

[Steven Rinella]

Because no one wrote it for him.

[Corey Calkins]

That's right.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, that was good. They have to write it for him and he had to rehearse it.

[Corey Calkins]

Maybe you need to sit in a Dungeons and Dragons game with Phil to appreciate his art.

[Steven Rinella]

Can you pull it up? That link just goes to Gmail.

[Corey Calkins]

All right, good deal.

[Steven Rinella]

But you can Google it. But those brown bear attacks keep everybody, Keep everybody entertained.

[Corey Calkins]

Brown bears, right. Like they, we. We think about them in the American context, but they're entertaining all over. You don't have to go all that far out of Rome, Italy to get attacked by a brown bear. Yeah, that's not a place people associate with brown bears that.

[Steven Rinella]

The Dolomites.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, here we go.

[Steven Rinella]

Here we go, listen to this. This is killed by bears this year.

[Corey Calkins]

And the MTS tie up reports the government is taking unusual steps to reduce the threat.

[Steven Rinella]

Japan is grappling with a grisly problem. That's what I wanted to include there. What a cheap shot. Clever. Whoever wrote that Japan is grappling with a grizzly problem, that's bad. But my God.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

100 attacks and 10. 10 like Japan. I'm no geographer. That is not a large island. The. Like, like. Cause I don't know, I haven't listened.

[Spencer Newhart]

To too many bears.

[Steven Rinella]

A lot of bears, a lot of people.

[Corey Calkins]

Urban interface.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah. One of them happened inside a supermarket.

[Steven Rinella]

You think like grizzlies. So if you take Alaska and the lower 48. So if you basically Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, grizzlies kill a couple people a year max.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Maybe 10 year 10 in Japan and a hundred attacks.

[Randall Williams]

That's wild.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep. Yeah. And they just pull point to. Japan has a hunting culture. It's shrinking, it's aging. I think overall Japan is still considered to be way too old. They're trying to reverse that trend. Right. Like the population average is aging and with that they're losing all sorts of cultural things, hunting being one of them. And one of the theories is that you have a disarmed, old, aging population that doesn't interact with wildlife the way it historically has. And the brown bears have figured it out.

[Steven Rinella]

Mm hmm.

[Corey Calkins]

And they're, they're taking advantage. And there's, there's just areas that villages, places, rural communities on the outskirts that have a way smaller population than they historically have. And so, you know, because of that, bears aren't having as much human interference, but they're interacting with, with human things. And, and that's where the, the conflict is occurring.

[Randall Williams]

When Steve asked you to fill time, why did you start talking about Italy when you know everything there is to know about the Japan situation?

[Corey Calkins]

Well, I, I just think it's a flex, dude. You need to. We have.

[Randall Williams]

You had a full clip back there.

[Corey Calkins]

Because I had started writing this thing about like, why people should care about like our disappearing grasslands in America, Bureau of Land Management lands in general, and how unique the American pronghorn antelope is. And being fresh off this brown bear hunt, I'm like, you know, brown bears are amazing and people think about brown bears all the time. And like, brown bears aren't nearly as American. You could say not American.

[Steven Rinella]

Like they're circumpolar.

[Corey Calkins]

Right. You know, and, and here's the places that you can find them. And here's the places where they are. Like, I wouldn't consider them like crazy wild animals. Right. And it's like they're pretty damn close to the Vatican.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

That doesn't seem to go hand in hand. You know.

[Steven Rinella]

That an American.

[Spencer Newhart]

One of the things they're blaming it on is a poor acorn harvest.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Which also happened in 2023. So they're. The bears are winding up in places where humans are to steal their food instead.

[Steven Rinella]

It's good to have Spencer here, man.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

A lot of guys come in this room. You know, they're all lazy. They don't look anything up.

[Randall Williams]

Flying blind.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. It's like this guy opens his mouth, he's got some gold, man.

[Spencer Newhart]

Wow.

[Steven Rinella]

Thank Cal's got all that about Italy. That was cool.

[Corey Calkins]

Just put artificial intelligence in the room.

[Steven Rinella]

Sounds like they deployed their self defense forces to take care of this problem. I. I don't know of any update beyond that, though. Wonder if they're trying to.

[Corey Calkins]

They also have a pretty serious bear spray distribution program.

[Steven Rinella]

Really?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. And there the robot dog thing. There's all.

[Spencer Newhart]

They're.

[Corey Calkins]

They're getting technology out there. And then they're. You can borrow cans of bear spray and return them and stuff. So there's. They're working on it.

[Steven Rinella]

It was so funny about bear spray culture. I've been noticing a lot around here.

[Phil]

Bear spray culture.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. It's like a whole culture.

[Corey Calkins]

Bear spray.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. If people go. It's so funny. Like people go to a trailhead around here. Like, let's say you're gonna go hike up the. Mm half people hike up the m. Hill. Got a can of bear spray. There's a lion up there.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, I know.

[Steven Rinella]

But hear me out. Hear me out. On our ring, like our ring camera. There's a bear every two nights.

[Spencer Newhart]

Really?

[Steven Rinella]

My neighbor has a bear every night. There's. I was walking the other night. I was walking around down by the golf course with my kids. Bear everywhere. Golfers don't have bear spray. When you go out to take your kids to school. Like when people walk out to take their kids to school and get in their car, they don't have bear spray. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

There's certain bears activities.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Why is it that people. Yeah, that's right. That's a good. People bring it according to what they're doing.

[Randall Williams]

It's an accessory.

[Steven Rinella]

Not according to what the odds are. Like what the bear.

[Corey Calkins]

Due to the bear Convention of 1873.

[Steven Rinella]

They're like hiking bear spray. Being around bears now.

[Randall Williams]

The Council of Galatin Decreed this.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, I. I told you, way back in my construction care days, this guy that we worked with, he'd put his family on speakerphone when they would call, because they would often end the call with. Now remember, don't get off the pavement. The bears don't. They don't like the pavement.

[Spencer Newhart]

Every two nights.

[Steven Rinella]

What's that?

[Spencer Newhart]

Every two nights.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm exaggerating a lot. Well, when. When the choke cherries come in. Oh, when the choke cherries come in. But you eat my neighbor, who's right there. You should. You should talk to him. He. I'm not exaggerated by my neighbor.

[Spencer Newhart]

Every night.

[Steven Rinella]

Call him and ask him. I'll call some right now.

[Spencer Newhart]

Do they mess with garbage lot?

[Steven Rinella]

It just comes through eating choke cherries, messing with garbage. The other day, his wife had to shoo it off in the middle of the day trying to get it out of there. Probably without bear spray.

[Randall Williams]

When we lived in Missoula, we like our house and our neighbor's house used to be an old orchard. So there's all these apple trees and plum trees and everything. And. Yeah, there's like, two months of the year where there would be bears in the trash every night or just out in the yard, and they just roam like the rattlesnake neighborhood sort of at will. But nobody's carrying bear spray. One came through somebody's house. Actually, they're, like, sitting on the back porch and a bear came. Do you remember that story?

[Corey Calkins]

Just followed the dog through the house. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Just like, came in one door and came out the other door coming through.

[Spencer Newhart]

You know what I learned about Missoula this year that I bet this room has a lot of input on? Is that the feral horses that live.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, God.

[Spencer Newhart]

In town.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

The Millers of that are so crazy.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think the story there is, like, outfitter went bust and just cut his pack string loose.

[Spencer Newhart]

How long ago?

[Corey Calkins]

I don't know.

[Spencer Newhart]

When I. When I heard that they were, like, in town, I didn't think literally in town, like, standing on.

[Steven Rinella]

It used to.

[Randall Williams]

Be that area is, like, really grown in the past 10 years, but, yeah, it's like it used to be a more rural.

[Spencer Newhart]

That looks more threatening than a bear.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yeah. I shouldn't be there.

[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

10. Here's a Tennessee guy. Tennessee man. Has that runs into that problem where you know when you see giant bucks where you're not supposed to chase them. Did you hear about this guy? So he gets wind of a. Or he's probably seeing this giant buck running around.

[Spencer Newhart]

Giant bucks.

[Corey Calkins]

I mean, pretty darn nice.

[Steven Rinella]

Nice box. Now, now I'm blocked out of this damn thing.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, you're looking.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm in the tent. I'm in the Tennessee.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So there's this very distinctive buck with some drop tines and stuff like that. And also there he is and he's got it, he's got pictures of it out. Well, the prison guard, the local prison guard says, hey, I know that buck. He lives at the prison. They go and check this guy's house out. He's got three bucks he killed on the prison. What's interesting about the news article in the Tennessean is it instead of talking about how big any of them is, it gives you the combined score of all three bucks.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Which.

[Spencer Newhart]

So then you have to do 163 inches.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So it's like it says he killed.

[Spencer Newhart]

Three bucks, totaling 491 inches, which is 100 inches.

[Steven Rinella]

If you imagine like, like, first off, we'll talk about the story in a minute. But I just saw if you imagine like your average person reading the Tennessean.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And you tell them he killed three bucks. Totaling. Tell me again.

[Randall Williams]

493.

[Spencer Newhart]

491 inches.

[Steven Rinella]

What is the level of like. Oh, yeah, you know, like the, the reader. What is their Level of.

[Randall Williams]

Or the editor was just like this graph is too long. Let's just add them all up.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I just kind of get lost in all the numbers. Like when you talk about how big all the deer are, can't you just add them up? Yeah. So he killed a. He killed. He quote. Oh no, no. This is a quote from the actual Lauderdale County General Sessions judge. Judge Lovelace. Oh like that name. He said quote, the three bucks had a combined gross score. Not net. Quote. The three bucks had a combined gross score of 491 and 58 inches.

[Randall Williams]

This just sounds ripe for a. A screenplay.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. The scheme.

[Randall Williams]

The scheme to break into the prison. Taunt the big bucks.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

53 year old man come. I could totally relate to that guy.

[Corey Calkins]

I, I just goes in two years.

[Steven Rinella]

I've been picture hunting to prison.

[Corey Calkins]

I just, when I wasn't.

[Randall Williams]

It's like a high school where they have to break.

[Corey Calkins]

I know I shouldn't do this, but for those in the room. Listeners block your ears. I just watched Corey Calkins look this place up and drop not just a pin but a whitetail buck pin on the correctional facility.

[Steven Rinella]

It was more for you to. What is the out?

[Randall Williams]

What does the perimeter look like?

[Steven Rinella]

It looks good. It looks very.

[Corey Calkins]

Scouters.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I'm gonna make a movie. It's called Ocean's One Dude. It's just one dude trying to kill bucks off the prison. It's a beautiful piece of ground. It's an amazing. He's got some amazing bucks. The other thing I appreciate about the article is it's trying to like is so the article says, where's this thing?

[Corey Calkins]

Is Corey thinking one day if I ever go to Tennessee or one day if I ever get thrown in prison. Tennessee.

[Steven Rinella]

Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency Lt. Tim Ward. Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency Lt. Tim Ward heard reports in January that a 15 point double drop time. Then the article includes a very helpful parenthetical meaning. Some of the antlers point down. Yeah. Was shot in Lauderdale County. Lt. Ward was familiar with this deer as it had been spotted frequently around the West Tennessee State Penitentiary where hunting is prohibited. Now if you had to go to jail, let's say you're a big hunter. They throw you in the who scout. That's worse than being in jail is you look out your little barred window.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And that son of a is walking.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. You patterned him out the window also with that description. When you hang a buck up on your gambrels, are they all drop tights? Look at all the drop times on that. Look at the drop Tines on that buck right there holding her. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

It looks like it's a chain link fence around the perimeter. So yeah, I'm sure some inmates were watching those deer.

[Randall Williams]

I mean I do think we should offer the disclaimer that we're, we're all, all well aware that these deer were likely outside of the perimeter and simply.

[Steven Rinella]

They'Re in the yard.

[Randall Williams]

Certainly it's much more fun to entertain that scenario, but I, I just don't think, I don't want to get a bunch of messages on, on Instagram saying, you idiot.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, no, I understand. Yeah, you know like the part of the prison where the bad guys kind of whisper and stuff about like, you know, yard further crime they're going to do. You know, in the movies. I don't think that's where the buck.

[Randall Williams]

Knows he's not by the bar, he's not by the bench press in the basketball hoop.

[Steven Rinella]

No, he's not there, man. He's off like in the area where a prisoner gets away.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, exactly. Where he's going to hide, where the searchlights shine into.

[Steven Rinella]

Now I don't carry bear spray just because there's a black bear in the vicinity, but if I was hunting in there, I'd carry bears because you don't know when a guy's going to bust the who's cow.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And there you are. I will say this butts up against public land.

[Corey Calkins]

Right? Exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

But that double drop time.

[Randall Williams]

There's somebody right now that's just upset with you.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, so upset.

[Steven Rinella]

It's so upset.

[Corey Calkins]

Public knowledge here.

[Steven Rinella]

I mean he's got, he's got a buck that's like a beautiful typical that crazy drop Tiner. He's got the other one with some real junk on it. Some little kickers here and there. They don't explain kickers in the article.

[Corey Calkins]

I, I, this is embarrassing to say, but I definitely had and a reaction of like, I mean it's just the greed man. Like this guy had this little illegal thing figured out. I don't know that was producing very well.

[Steven Rinella]

Or is he thinking.

[Randall Williams]

Prison, that's public land. Is he thinking taxpayers?

[Steven Rinella]

He's like here, these, here's these deer. First off, he's thinking these people are supposed to be in jail. Instead they're looking at giant bucks. Yeah, take that right away. Do you know what I mean? Like, like they're doing their. They committed now.

[Corey Calkins]

They committed.

[Steven Rinella]

Why should they have the joy heinous crimes. And now they get to look at giant bucks and I don't. So that might Be what he's thinking.

[Randall Williams]

I'm thinking of casting a Channing Tatum type for the lead in this film.

[Phil]

Not a real artist.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

But someone with a sense of humor who can also be sort of a dashing action hero.

[Corey Calkins]

Sure.

[Phil]

That's a good.

[Corey Calkins]

I say greed because the guy, he wasn't like, I have a combined gross amount of antler of 491 for my secret hunting spot. I should call it quits now or I shouldn't tell anybody.

[Spencer Newhart]

He did it successfully enough that he was comfortable getting two of these deer shoulder mounted, which is like kind of a high profile thing that happens. If you go get a deer shoulder mounted.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. You're like, he's not a home tax.

[Spencer Newhart]

Folks know.

[Corey Calkins]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

One on the right is a deer that should be in a. On a T shirt.

[Steven Rinella]

Clay did one about a guy that killed one on a military base illegally. He claimed that when he saw. He just lost his mind. Oh. As soon as he shot. As soon as he shot it, he said. I said to myself, I'll never get away with this. But he had temporary insanity.

[Corey Calkins]

Wow.

[Steven Rinella]

We interviewed a guy one time, the game warden from Idaho. Former game. No, he was a gamer at the time. Eric. You know they put those robo deer out.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They don't use giants. You use mediums. He was saying if you push it to using giants, everyone shoots at it. So they, like, they want to get the real bait.

[Corey Calkins]

I was thinking that was not going.

[Steven Rinella]

To be the case. They use mediums.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because they're worried that it's like entrapment.

[Spencer Newhart]

Sure.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, it's entrapment. You're bait in the trap with two. Enticing of a bait. So you bait it with a medium.

[Corey Calkins]

Wow.

[Randall Williams]

Makes sense.

[Corey Calkins]

You know, I was working with Jordan Sillers to go back to blood trails because there's an Idaho judge who's now retired who several game wardens referred to as a hanging judge when it came to wildlife crime.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh.

[Corey Calkins]

And so I'm trying to get that fellow track down so Jordan can talk to him. Because I'm like, if that's the case, I'm sure he's got some. Some fun stories that might fit for Jordan Sillers.

[Steven Rinella]

That's interesting. I have a friend in law enforcement, and he has a hard. He generally has a hard time. He generally has a hard time with wildlife crimes that come to juries or wildlife crimes. Yeah. With judges where a lot of them are like, what now? A deer exact attitude.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Like what?

[Corey Calkins]

Yep. Exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

I heard you talk about a deer yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Several conversations with prosecutors, county prosecutors, who have known through friends and family and stuff, who have eventually been like, hey, can you tell me why when a game warden brings a case into our office that they are so serious about it?

[Steven Rinella]

Because you're not.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Because it's like, well, by the. They've done a lot of work and they. They have to like, cross this line of like, okay, this is consuming a lot of resources and time. It is worth it. Mm. And so they need it to be worth it to you or else it's. It's a giant waste of time. And they're picking and choosing, like, what is going to make the biggest impact.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And. And, and that's why. And they know that all these prosecutors are like, oh, here's some truly gross human stuff. Drugs or trafficking or, you know, you name it. And they're like, and you're worried about a whitetail deer.

[Steven Rinella]

Right. It's gotta be frustrating.

[Randall Williams]

The guy just shot it after dark.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, right.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but. So he could have legally killed it 20 minutes earlier, but you're worried because he killed it. Yeah. Yeah. But then at the same time, that's the game warden's mandate.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

I think we should have like a version of a military tribunal for game wildlife violations.

[Corey Calkins]

And who would be on there? Just old game wardens. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Like people who get it.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a good point, man.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, pull. Change the Constitution and stuff. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

You know, there's like a traffic court.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. There's a couple other tweaks.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Tweaks people have been talking about in the Constitution. That might be a good one. Wildlife. Like a little. What do you call when you add on to that sucker amendment?

[Randall Williams]

Well, yeah, I mean, a jury of your peers for 100 to be tried by a bunch of non hunters feel like it's not your peers.

[Steven Rinella]

You need a constitutional attorney. That's a great idea. Keeping with a jury of your peers should be the. Yeah. Your peers. Well, they might be like, well, I'm a poacher. My peers.

[Corey Calkins]

The other important in wildlife crime is there's no intent, you know, like human crime. It's like, well, obviously they were intending this because of these previous actions and things. And then your witnesses in the woods, don't they never end up taking the stand?

[Phil]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. No, that's true. Because then you're. The question with wildlife crime too is like, you know, they always get into motive.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

What was the motive? He wanted that big old buck. Yeah, he wanted a really big buck. That's about that. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. A couple back straps. Here's one that's like. You could spend an hour on this. I'd actually like to spend an hour on this. So in California, this is a complicated story. Two former ranch properties were recently returned to the Tuli River Indian Tribe. The tribe's ancestral lands straddle the foothills of present day Tular County. Am I saying that right? Tular County, Yeah. The land return was funded through the California Natural Resources Agency. The. The agency's Tribal Nature Based Solutions program. So there was these ranches that were somehow under California control, and they did a land back thing and granted the ranches to the tribe. Because the ranches connect the tribal reservation lands to public lands to U.S. forest Service lands, they promptly turn around and put a bunch of wildlife enhancement efforts in place and start Tuli Elkhard on their land. That's interesting.

[Corey Calkins]

Very much so. I. I will admit I didn't read that one, but.

[Steven Rinella]

You can spend. There's two huge elements here. The land back. The land back movement. That'd be like Crin's not here. Well, I think if Corinne was here, I'd be telling. She, you know, she's here doing her job and not hunting. I wonder, telling her about how we should do something on land back.

[Corey Calkins]

Is it specifically land back, or was it a scenario where there were. The state wanted to get rid of this stuff for all the reasons states do, and there were several entities in the running. Or was this a specific agreement with the tribe that had lasted forever? That's what I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

So from san franciscogate.com sfgate.com Tuliak are once again roaming the Sierra Nevada foothills southwest of Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks after a historic land return that Governor Gavin Newsom is calling the largest of its kind in the region's history. The 17,030 acres made up of two former ranch properties were recently returned to the Tule River Indian Tribe.

[Corey Calkins]

Interesting.

[Steven Rinella]

The land return was funded through the California Natural Resource Agency's Tribal Nature Based Solutions program, which partners with tribes across the state to place the stewardship of ancestral land back in indigenous hands.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, that definitely fits. Heavy on that language.

[Steven Rinella]

So that's a subject. And then Tulk is a subject. Neither of those subjects we've really ever taken on on the show. Work her in here doing her job. I'd put that. She'd put that on her little.

[Randall Williams]

Make a note for Phil.

[Phil]

Yeah, I've already got it jotted down.

[Corey Calkins]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

And then maybe put a sticky note where she should be sitting right next to what you. What you missed.

[Spencer Newhart]

She said that you gave her a hall pass to elk hunt today instead of coming to the podcast. What was that conversation like?

[Steven Rinella]

She texted me, and basically it was like, what time yesterday? It was basically like, are you a good person or a bad person?

[Corey Calkins]

I love it.

[Steven Rinella]

It works. You know what I mean?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I suppose I could come back if I really needed to. For the record, I could be hunting right now. Do you follow me?

[Corey Calkins]

But I'm here.

[Steven Rinella]

What am I supposed to do?

[Spencer Newhart]

Well, when Corinne sent out this invite, Cal's response was, corinne, that is the best day of the mule deer rut.

[Steven Rinella]

No, it's not.

[Corey Calkins]

November 12th. Begged a difference fight about.

[Randall Williams]

Is Cal's birthday.

[Spencer Newhart]

So me, Randall and Corey will decide which day is better. Which day is better. Steve.

[Steven Rinella]

Sorry.

[Spencer Newhart]

If he says November 12, what's your answer?

[Steven Rinella]

19.

[Spencer Newhart]

November 19.

[Phil]

Is that because that's when you specifically will be out, out and about and you're just trying to hype yourself?

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I'm out and about when I think it's the best day.

[Phil]

Okay, chicken egg situation.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's a good one.

[Spencer Newhart]

Corey, which day is better?

[Corey Calkins]

Thanksgiving. Oh, wow. So.

[Steven Rinella]

So the deer know it's a Thursday and nobody's out there. Especially in the afternoon. About, oh, 3:30. It's like Wisconsin. Done. The packers are playing. Dude, it's a good day to be in the woods yourself. Hunt. The neighbor's place used to be able to tilt trail cameras. That's my understanding.

[Corey Calkins]

I'm not.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't.

[Randall Williams]

What was the motive?

[Steven Rinella]

That's what Wisconsin guys say. Like prior to trail cams, you could hunt your neighbor. You could drive your neighbor's property during packers games.

[Phil]

That's perfect.

[Steven Rinella]

You never get caught. Now you can get caught. This is what I've been told by Wisconsinites. It's a hot tip.

[Randall Williams]

If you had a time machine.

[Steven Rinella]

So this guy was digging. He was into the deep cuts. He's back listening to episode 777. Oh, no. What am I saying? That's not a deep cut. He's listening to recent episode. He says how we were talking about The South Carolina DNR's use of the term still hunts. Remember we talked about this, Randall? A guy wrote in, he moves to South Carolina, and he's reading the South Carolina regs, and he sees that there's there. There's a thing in the South Carolina deer rags where there's a tight. There's a distinction, a still hunt. He reads that how most people in America would read it. A still hunt being very slowly, very quietly making your way through prime deer country, not sitting still. So it's a misnomer, but like, few steps, stop and listen. Few steps, stop and listen. That's called still hunting. Why that's called still hunting, I don't know. It should be called slow walk hunting. Timber creeping. Timber creeping. But still hunt. If you go get like old hunting books, any kind of hunting books, whatever that is. Still hunting. Slow, deliberate travel. Few steps, stop and listen. Few steps, stop, listen. That's called still hunting.

[Corey Calkins]

If you're walking slightly faster and you're Doug Duran, it's called a mooch.

[Steven Rinella]

Yes. Well, if there are people stand hunting nearby, you could spend a long time explaining all these distinctions. Yeah, this guy moves to South Carolina and he's like, you can only still hunt. He's looking at his regs. This is still hunting season. He, no joke, calls the Fish and Game Agency to be like, why can't you hunt? Why can't I sit in my tree stand? And they're like, no, you idiot. Still hunting here means hunting not with dogs. Okay. A guy writes in. Here's another one from South Carolina. That kind of, like, is tricky. You cannot possess any deer with the head. Sorry, you. You may not. Okay, here's the rule. Possessing any deer with the head detached while in transit from the point of kill is prohibited. Meaning if you're in South Carolina and you kill one off in the. In a swamp. He realized he is not allowed to part that deer out. He had. You have to take the deer out hole. You can't transport a deer. And he says he's wondering, what if I leave its head attached to, like, its front arm by a flap, a hide.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, I don't.

[Steven Rinella]

Isn't that a weird one? Yeah, very weird. Cannot. You cannot take a deer apart in the woods.

[Corey Calkins]

And you would have to, because there are, you know, it's very random. But there's. Does that get little antlers and your. Still doesn't say you need to leave evidence of sex. Right, right. Like, in general, the head would be evidence of sex, but not always.

[Steven Rinella]

That must be what they're referring to. Well, yeah, but in Montana, evidence of sex doesn't count the head. Back when it was the rule, they changed the rule recently in Montana. Had to be. You had to leave evidence of sex attached. So you could remove the genitals, you can move the.

[Spencer Newhart]

The.

[Steven Rinella]

You could remove the mammaries, the. The packer, the vulva, whatever, could all be removed. You could have the head still attached. You could still get a ticket, right? Yeah, they, they were like, the head doesn't tell us enough. We need to see. I, I, I was one time getting.

[Corey Calkins]

Evidence of sex defined as I was.

[Steven Rinella]

Issued a warning shortly after moving to Montana. I had a game warden issue me a warning and it was really nice and gave me a note in case another game warden tried to get yell at me for the same thing. Anyways, I'm like, but the head's on it. He's like, man, doesn't cut it. Yeah, doesn't cut it. You gotta, you gotta leave the sexual organs attached. He didn't care about that. The head could be gone. They just want the sexual organs. So in this case, that's just a weird one to me. So this guy's lived, he's lived elsewhere, then moved to South Carolina. So the way he normally goes about things, he can't go about.

[Randall Williams]

The other interesting thing here is like, I know in Montana, it defy, it says like in, or maybe not in Montana, but in somewhere. You know, they say where you're going, it's like from the point of kill until where it's processed or from point of kill until you get home or whatever. This is just while in transit from the point of kill. So could you take it to your buddy's house down the road then cut the head off? Right. And, and then take it home.

[Corey Calkins]

Right. It's like no longer from the point of kill. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Like it just has a starting point for where the head can't be detached, but it doesn't have the end point at what when can you detach the.

[Spencer Newhart]

Head or drag it 50 yards?

[Randall Williams]

Right, exactly.

[Spencer Newhart]

It's not the point of kill anymore.

[Randall Williams]

I'm going to drag it over there, take a long break, detach the head.

[Corey Calkins]

Steve, A buddy of mine was also given a warning for not leaving evidence of sex on a, on a doe.

[Steven Rinella]

That he killed from years ago.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep. And, and he had a, like a full on dispute at. This is at a hunter's check station on the road because he had left the mammories and cut off the teats. Right. Had fully skinned the deer, but left.

[Steven Rinella]

The mammary, left the mammoth.

[Corey Calkins]

Okay, well that was the, the game warden was, was in the wrong on this one. Oh, and my buddy had a biology degree and was like, oh. He's like, I'm not accepting a warning. He's like, he's like, you're wrong.

[Spencer Newhart]

It's got to be the first time that's ever happened.

[Corey Calkins]

He's like, this is evidence of sex he's like a teat is a feature. Mammary is a gland. It was like, let's, let's. How much time do you bring it on?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, bring it on. I'm lawyered up.

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[Steven Rinella]

Some years ago Montana got a friend of mine joked that Montana got rid of all the rules that were the most commonly broken rules. Oh, where Montana ditched they they loosened wanton waste restrictions y so that you could just breast a bird out. So you could just breast out game birds not have to do the legs. They got rid of w they got rid of evidence of sex. I was attached. Yeah. I was supportive of the evidence of sex move. I was not supportive of the wanton waste loosening.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, yeah, you can leave a bear.

[Steven Rinella]

Carcass in the woods now can you really? The whole damn thing when they do that? You could just take the hide.

[Corey Calkins]

No way.

[Randall Williams]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

When did that happen? Well, forever. There was carcass and hide tags that they give you now it's just one tag. You can ditch all the meat.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You don't.

[Randall Williams]

No, no, no. That's not pretty sure.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, you don't have to attach a tag to any meat.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't. I think there's still one waste regulations on bears.

[Corey Calkins]

Hold on.

[Steven Rinella]

Look that up. Spencer. That's got to be a special.

[Spencer Newhart]

I don't. I'm not going to give out wrong information.

[Corey Calkins]

I really don't pay attention to that because I'm bringing it all out anyway. Right? Oh, 100%. When we were we were working with Idaho fishing game to get their want and waste laws updated and I was talking, I was getting all the stakeholders together, right. So I was talking to like Idaho houndsmen and trappers and everybody and 99 of the phone calls I made people would be like wait, now you don't have to take the meat.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh really?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. It was just like seemed like everybody who was really doing it was taking the meat anyway. Which was interesting and and very good to hear.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. If I was king of the world, I'd make really strict one way sauce. There's there's hunting units in Alaska where you're obligated to bring out like moose.

[Corey Calkins]

Ribs and liver, right?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. On the bone. I don't know about liver currently, but they had some on the bone. Yeah. They had. Somewhere like you couldn't. In certain units, you couldn't bone them. But Alaska does extremes too. Like, they have certain units where you have to destroy the trophy value of a moose. You have to draw a special tag to keep the antlers.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

If you're hunting it under. Under normal, like registration rules, you have to destroy. When we're hunting. Super interesting. We're hunting this spring hunt bears this spring. I found. First time my life. I found a moose.

[Randall Williams]

I found half.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, you know, you got to saw. They show you where you got to cut through the. You got to cut through the. The paddle. Oh, and I found a sawed through just one portion. I found the outer. The outer extent. The outer portion of a sawed through half of paddle.

[Spencer Newhart]

Could you then.

[Steven Rinella]

And I didn't even know. That's a great question. I did not. That's a great question. But I didn't even know I was in one of those units. I'm like, oh, my God. Never even seen one of these. But here's where a guy killed one during a registration hunt and had to destroy the trophy valley of the moose. And there it was sawed in half.

[Corey Calkins]

That's amazing. Yeah, it was wild and a pain in the butt. I was cutting. I made beautiful. One of the things that really excites me about antelope. Right. Is like they're just so easy to deal with. And so I bring. Bring everything, everything sized animal. And I was sawing through the spine and making like, you know, like actual bone in state cuts. Made these gorgeous little porter houses this year and.

[Steven Rinella]

Super cool. What. I don't know what that is. I know that it's like a good thing to order, but I don't know what. Like, what the hell is a porterhouse?

[Corey Calkins]

Well, the porterhouse is this the portion where the loin and the tenderloin are, you know, the loins on top, tenderloins underneath.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a porterhouse.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep, Yep. So you have one chunk, one.

[Steven Rinella]

No, I just.

[Randall Williams]

I just knew that at Outback Steakhouse they used to call the porterhouse the Melbourne, and it was the biggest steak you could get.

[Steven Rinella]

Dude, that'll be a great trivia question for your ass.

[Spencer Newhart]

I don't think so. I don't know.

[Randall Williams]

I don't think they call it them.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, do we need to go through the ones that are bad anyhow.

[Steven Rinella]

You need porterhouses. I never knew that sort of porterhouse.

[Corey Calkins]

And just cutting through, I mean, a dinky little antelope is like. That was a lot of work with a handsaw. Yeah. And then man antlers are hard. And cutting through a moose antler would be a deterrent for me.

[Steven Rinella]

Anna, the butcher was bragging out to me two days ago. No, when she bragging up to me. She's bragging out to me two days ago about how fun her bandsaw is. That's the word she used.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, my God.

[Steven Rinella]

She says it's a lot of fun.

[Corey Calkins]

It's a dream.

[Steven Rinella]

It's fun to have a band saw.

[Corey Calkins]

It's a dream.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Way back when, when I was running around with my old outfitter, we would in the middle of the day, go down and cut beef in Stevensville at a buddy's butcher shop. And he'd always end the day by going, now, you know a job you don't want to do. But yeah, running stakes through that band saw is you get all that meat butter flying out.

[Steven Rinella]

It's great.

[Spencer Newhart]

Corey, how's the googling your face?

[Corey Calkins]

Conflicting things.

[Steven Rinella]

No, it wouldn't be conflicting. Not if you're looking in the rig. Yeah, well, that's what I'm trying.

[Spencer Newhart]

So look up.

[Corey Calkins]

Because I knew it was pretty recent. The deer and elk rags. Like, I know there's no longer anything that mentions rib meat, but you said. What about neck and shanks?

[Steven Rinella]

No, my understanding is no ribs, no neck, no shanks.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, it's 4/4 tenderloin and back strap, I believe.

[Steven Rinella]

Wow.

[Spencer Newhart]

They say tenderloin in there?

[Randall Williams]

I believe so.

[Spencer Newhart]

That's a funny one, too.

[Steven Rinella]

Calm tendies.

[Spencer Newhart]

Be like, you gotta take that.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, I mean, just. I have been around some people whose interpretation of a front quarter.

[Steven Rinella]

Yes. The quarter is.

[Corey Calkins]

Like, oh, you're leaving. You're basically just taking the bones out. Some fatty bones. Meaty fatty bones. I don't understand because they're cutting.

[Randall Williams]

Oh, they're cutting so tight off.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, they don't take it down to the rib.

[Corey Calkins]

No, no, it's just. It's a waste. I mean, it's pure waste. But they're like, this is the letter of the law, and that's all I care about. And I'm like, that's ridiculous.

[Spencer Newhart]

Game warden's got to know everything about everything. And, like, not just at wildlife crime, but, like, how it goes if you pull over someone for dui. Yeah, there got to be regular cops on top of it.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Be Tough stuff. And then, and then, you know, someone asks them like, what's that bird over there? It's expected. They know that as well.

[Steven Rinella]

It's a huge skill set, man. I got a lot of respect for that occupation. And also it's like a lot of those guys kind of come at it because they got a love of hunting and stuff. And then you make this commitment where you're just going to work all through hunting season.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then go up to hunters and.

[Spencer Newhart]

Have people liked by hunters.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Be like dismissive and rude. You got to deal with that all the time. It's a tough job.

[Corey Calkins]

I'm always pestering our game wardens and some of them are foolish enough to give me their cell phone numbers. So I'm always calling and text them and stuff. And I was talking to one last week and he's like, yeah, I confiscated my fifth animal of this of the season. And I didn't really pry, but he said most of those were all self turn ins people who went, oh my God. Shot a buck in the wrong unit. Oh my God.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Didn't you know stuff like that?

[Randall Williams]

So, so I've got, I've got some clarification here.

[Spencer Newhart]

The.

[Randall Williams]

The Montana annotated code defines for game animals excluding mountain lions.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep.

[Randall Williams]

So including black bears, all of the four quarters above the hock including loin and back strap are considered suitable for food.

[Steven Rinella]

Above the hock. Okay. Then you do got to keep the shank.

[Spencer Newhart]

Is it saying loin or backstop strap?

[Randall Williams]

Including loin and back strap.

[Steven Rinella]

So they're calling the T loin the loin because the back strap is the loin.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I regress apologies for saying that. I might have been wrong. Maybe it was thinking mountain lions.

[Randall Williams]

I didn't mean to interject so forcefully.

[Steven Rinella]

But no, I didn't watch it. Yeah, yeah.

[Randall Williams]

I didn't want to see something.

[Steven Rinella]

Say something, dude, you know, But I.

[Spencer Newhart]

Like that no one knew the law because it's just implied that everyone is gonna, you know, take out. Why wouldn't you take all that?

[Corey Calkins]

Oh man, like all those bird carcasses too. I'm always making stock and it's not like it's. I had a fella tell me straight faced at the Pheasants Forever Quail Forever annual get together you're at which you assume is just full of bird hunters tell me straight faced about shooting sage grouse in Montana. And I was like, oh my gosh, the thighs on sage grouse are something like the best meat ever. And he's like, oh, we didn't take the legs. We didn't have enough room in the cooler.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, come on.

[Spencer Newhart]

You have a lunch pail.

[Corey Calkins]

Drink a beer. I don't know how to continue this conversation.

[Steven Rinella]

I, I, I didn't meet this person, but a friend. There is a war. There's a trooper in Alaska. The game wardens are state troopers. Like there's a, there's a state, there's a sort of a division of state troopers that handle wildlife, but they're within the state troopers. Someone's telling me there's a, there's a. I know, I remember in the story. I don't remember where they work, but they were female state trooper who had a policy on the moose wanton waste. She would carry, as explained to me, gallon sized Ziplocs. If she goes up to a moose carcass and she fills that gallon sized Ziploc with good meat off the parts that need to be retained, that's her threshold.

[Corey Calkins]

Interesting.

[Steven Rinella]

That's her personal threshold when she gets a gallon sized bag of good meat. You screwed up. Wow. I like that.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

That fills up fast.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Especially on a moose. Yeah. If you were sloppy and you see her get that bag out on a moose, you're like, oh, you're like, let's.

[Spencer Newhart]

Just not gonna take long.

[Steven Rinella]

Listen, don't, just don't waste your time. Like I screwed up. Saskatchewan, A Canadian wrote in. They kind of chastise us.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh.

[Steven Rinella]

Since you have been targeting Canadian users with your On X ads, I figured perhaps you'd be interested to learn something about the challenges we have here.

[Corey Calkins]

High and mighty, sitting way up north in the Rockies, fair looking down on us.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm gonna, I want to read this letter, but I want to read this letter as a way that's not going to deliver to her what she wants.

[Spencer Newhart]

I'm sorry, does Saskatchewan now have On X?

[Steven Rinella]

No. No, Kate. I would think they do.

[Spencer Newhart]

I thought they were saying you target them with your.

[Steven Rinella]

No, she's saying that, that if you're in Canada, you get delivered.

[Clean the World Representative]

I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't know. Somehow I don't know. They're, they're, she's getting advertised. She's, she just wants some Canadian coverage, that's all. Okay. But she has the wrong idea about what goes on down here. She's writing in, about this. In Saskatchewan, they have a fledgling elk curd and was. They don't have a well established widespread elk curtain with Saskatchewan. It's bull only. There are some agricultural producers who are kind of pissed at the elk. So they're opening up a cow season, a seven day cow season. Since they don't do draws, it just becomes a general seven day cow season in some of these areas. She is saying this has nothing to do with, with health of the elk herd, carrying capacity of the landscape, distribution of elk. This is simply a small number of landowners being mad about elk grazing on their property. And she goes on to say, we often look down enviously at how wildlife is managed in the usa. And I just want to say, Catelyn, buddy, the city, the city on a hill.

[Randall Williams]

We are not.

[Steven Rinella]

You did not. Canada did not invent depredation. Did not.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Canada did not invent the overpopulated as defined by a handful of agricultural producers. Yeah, that is a. I would have said, boy, I sure wish I was, you know, or not. I don't wish that. I sure like it that Canadians don't do that. But sounds like we both have developed the same habits.

[Spencer Newhart]

Onx announced in October 2024 that they are now available in Canada and they show all government lands. They also show private lands, but not private land ownership. But good for Canadians. I was always under the impression they didn't have Onx up there. They caught up with us.

[Corey Calkins]

That's all you got, like, for good for Canadians.

[Spencer Newhart]

I'm happy for you. My hunting life would be so different without Onx and I can't, it's, you know, fathom not having on X until a year ago.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

It'd be way different.

[Corey Calkins]

It would be different.

[Steven Rinella]

You want to know how different? Can I tell you a little something? This happened to me last night. You think you're gonna think I'm making this up on my bookshelves in my office at home. I still have all my Delorme gazetteers. Yeah. I mean, I had. My Delorme gazetteer collection was as wide as this laptop.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I pulled out my old, old. For nostalgic purposes, I pulled out my old, old Montana one from like the late 90s. I pulled that out because I used to like, mark my. I used to drop my pins, so to speak, by like drawing on that gazetteer. I pulled that out to put in my like, key, like with my dad's war records and stuff like that, and took those and put them in a trash can and it felt naughty.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, that does feel. Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But I'm like, but what are you gonna do with them? Yeah, you're not like, I haven't touched one of those things. I was like, oh, you can't do that. Like, what are you supposed to do like storm. That's right.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't think. I don't think you recycle. Those are full of staples.

[Spencer Newhart]

And I would knock on your door.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't think you recycle those.

[Corey Calkins]

I think you can.

[Steven Rinella]

It's got a glossy cover and metal staples.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, inside the. Not every. Oh, do you have the fancy ones with the binder and. No, the Nat Geo ones.

[Randall Williams]

Falling apart.

[Steven Rinella]

Whatever.

[Corey Calkins]

I'll put it out.

[Steven Rinella]

It's not so much where I put them. Exactly.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Instead I got rid of them. But then here's the thing. If you save them, you're gonna die. And the first thing your kids are gonna do is throw them away.

[Spencer Newhart]

That's the right way to look at that.

[Corey Calkins]

I had an interesting phone call over the weekend from a rancher. And, you know, a lot of folks are reaching out with the announcement of the. The incoming CEO stuff. And so I don't want to violate any trust here. But I got a heads up and said like, there was a recent landowner meeting with Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks on. And you should be interested to know that there's a renewed push largely by. And he was in this meeting by folks who you would call recreational ranch amenity ranchers to increase the number of landowner, of course. Bull elk tags.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

For the purposes of reducing the elk herds. And I. It was thinking about that. You know, and I was doing a lot of driving over the weekend and it kind of turns. It ties into the Saskatchewan deal. But you know how cult leaders eventually get to the point where they're like, I had a vision, a dream, and I'm going to do everyone the favor of taking on the sexual burden so nobody else.

[Steven Rinella]

So that you other men don't need to worry about it.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly. Exactly. Nobody else has sex with the women except for me.

[Steven Rinella]

I'll handle it.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Much as I don't like to.

[Corey Calkins]

So you don't you no longer burden with what comes with that.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And I'm like.

[Steven Rinella]

Because I alone can handle that.

[Randall Williams]

Heavy lies the crown.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly. And it's like, should that be. The tactic here is like, thank you so much for taking on the burden of killing the bull elk so the rest of us don't have to worry about that. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You're like, what I like to have is I like to have hundreds of elk move on to my place. I don't want anyone to hunt them because it might scare them away, but it does cause a lot of damage. So I would like to be able to kill a huge bull. He Seems to be eating a lot, mating all those cows. Whenever I look out there, there he is eating. I mean, he's bigger. He probably eats more. I just want to get the big one that eats the most.

[Randall Williams]

And his.

[Corey Calkins]

His hooves are bigger.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, he's like.

[Randall Williams]

He trampling stuff.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They will do clothes.

[Randall Williams]

You know, horns get tangled in barbed wire.

[Steven Rinella]

All right, Cal, give us. Tell us a little bit about your. Your grizzly hunt.

[Corey Calkins]

Boy, there is so much to tell. It was an amazing hunt. I. I had been out on the Alaskan peninsula, you know, pretty darn close to where we were this time in 2011 as a packer. And that was a wild experience. And we killed a giant bear that trip. We killed two. Killed two out of three on that season.

[Steven Rinella]

Roughly. What year was that?

[Corey Calkins]

2011.

[Steven Rinella]

Did you already say that?

[Corey Calkins]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

So, I mean, a long, long time ago now. Right. But it was an extremely memorable experience because all the things that people talk about on. On the peninsula like crazy severe weather and. And very challenging and. And some. Some suffering, mostly mental. And we killed this giant brown bear. And it is one of those things that I reference because it's like we killed the a. What I would call like high school athlete, like senior high school athlete type of. It's mature, but it's just getting started.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Corey Calkins]

Grizzly bear. And then we killed the like old NFL pro going downhill fast. Grizzly bear.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Trying to get one more contract.

[Corey Calkins]

And the skull in comparison, right. Is. Is like, oh, species, subspecies, really like. Like it is just a dinosaur thing. And that was just very, very impressive to me. And then also the. The physicality that it takes to move through that landscape fast with the muskeg and the brush and. And then carry out, you know, what is almost always a big wet hide is hard, really hard.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, in Duncan Gilchrist book All About Bears, just true classic, he mentioned some bears being so big. Have you ever seen this? Some bears being so big that they cut them at the waist and haul it out in two pieces.

[Corey Calkins]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Would you feel weird doing that?

[Corey Calkins]

Very weird.

[Steven Rinella]

And have you seen that?

[Corey Calkins]

I've never seen it, but it's always talked about.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

I feel like we've seen Clay Newcomb maybe do that.

[Steven Rinella]

Dude, I would feel very weird where.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

The hell's he at that he needs to do that?

[Spencer Newhart]

I don't know. That's. That sounded familiar to me that I've. If he's doing.

[Steven Rinella]

He's just doing it to be dramatic. It's like when he shoots so I.

[Randall Williams]

Can get it on the mules.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like him shooting a squirrel off his horse.

[Corey Calkins]

It shouldn't be a big deal because a taxidermist is going to be sewing that thing up every, no matter what you do with it. But at the same time, it's a really big deal.

[Steven Rinella]

I've thought of, if I needed to do it, I would. It would just feel very like, really.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You cut it in half.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yeah. And the conditions up there, like they're, it's. There's always moisture, even on bluebird days. And the bluebird days may not even come during that season.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Breaking news, everybody. Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible. The ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely.

[Steven Rinella]

Let me start by saying it's a.

[Spencer Newhart]

Great day to be a gray shirt team Rubicon. You know, it truly is a team. Those folks, myself included, all had one desire, which is helping folks in disaster.

[Corey Calkins]

Trying to be a little bit of.

[Spencer Newhart]

Hope in a really, really bad situation.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

It's like magic, you guys. So put down your doom scroller and pick up your faith in humanity and join me, Jenna, for the ripple effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. You really can.

[Steven Rinella]

We give just that nugget of hope helping other people. For some of our gray shirts.

[Corey Calkins]

It's during a time when they need.

[Steven Rinella]

Help and by helping others, it helps them.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Listen to the ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Steven Rinella]

What'S one of those hides way.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh God. What was the kind of going estimate is like you're gonna be in like with the skull and the hide and you know it's still got fat on and stuff because you're not fleshing it at the scene of the paws intact. Yep. That it's gonna be somewhere in that 150 pound.

[Steven Rinella]

Good God. Then range and then through all that brush and everything.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. And then it can. It can definitely go heavier.

[Steven Rinella]

Huh. Hence the cut in half.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. So that was in mind. I. It's a very expensive trip. So I was like, well one day I'll get back here. But I never thought I'd get back there to actually hunt. You know, I figured I want to go be a packer again or guide or something. And. And so yeah, we, we got to do this trip which was crazy huge opportunity, once in a lifetime trip. And I was very like I just really wanted to maximize it. And the, the two guides. We had two guides instead of a guide and a packer. The. Because it's a new area for. For this outfit and they wanted to get people more experience on the ground. So we had had two guides and. And you know, we just kind of had a talk of like, hey, I know oftentimes people aren't like physically or mentally prepared for what this trip can be like. Trust. Trust me, like my crew, like we're ready to go. We can suffer. We got the mindset to be here. And if we got a jog across muskeg and swamp and through brush and stuff to get it done, we can do it. And you know, it's kind of like you build up that trust with your brand new friends for the week. Right. Is. Is a big part of the guiding game. And, and I really wanted. I was like, I want a respectable bear with my bow first and foremost. And if I got to get one with the rifle, I want that big giant bear if they're around. Yep. And. And we got in there two days early. Which they really encourage. Right. Because the travel. You never know when a travel day you're actually going to be able to fly.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Like two days early or potentially a week late.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

Because the storm comes in.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep. And the, the spots out there, like it's. It's pretty rare to have like an area unless you're right on the beach at low tide where you can get a bigger plane in. So it's all super cub, which, you know, they're just limited in what they can carry and, and wind and conditions and stuff like that. So everything was awesome. We came in on a beautiful bluebird day. I'm making the story way longer. We got. Got to see all the weather and, and suffer for a few days and, and saw some big giant bears. I think three, ultimately. One was in like that, like super big giant bear category, and then two were in like the big giant bear category.

[Steven Rinella]

But one was an outgoing NFL guy.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly. Yep. Yeah. Hall of Famer. Yeah. And we, I mean, we got to see him at. Spotted him opening morning of the hunt. So the third day that we're there, it's just barely getting light. I look across one of the rivers and here's this bear, like curled up in a bed. But look in our direction and you just see like the big dish face, kind of lion mane from that profile shot, or not profile, head on shot. I was like, well, look at that bear. And everybody got real excited. It was like, oh, we gotta make a decision quick, you know, and then ultimately went in there. The bear had gone into the brush already. Seeing them one is one thing, Catching up with them is another thing. Like, you can't really catch up to a bear that's on a destination type walk.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. And you're on coastal plain. You're like. Yeah, like river estuaries. Coming out through willow flats and alder flats. Yep.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. And the stuff that you think is like, looks like a hay field is a marsh.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. The kind of place where you're flying over, like, I'm gonna walk over there. I'm gonna walk over there. I'll walk over there. And you land. You're like, man, you're walking anywhere.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You're not walking anywhere.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. And I had told you this, but like one of the most fun things is it's ultra brushy for the bears too. So they are constantly standing up on their hind feet and looking around. And I'm like, prairie dogs and brown bears, I'm like, who would have thought, who would have thought the similarities? Because they're just constantly being like, well, I better get a better look. And so it's just like dead flat, you know, is what the eye relief says. And then all of a sudden it's.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, oh, he's standing there.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, bear standing there. And then it drops on all fours and it's just totally gone.

[Steven Rinella]

Ceases to exist.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. And they're following all these little creeks, side channels that have salmon still spawning up in them. So permanent Snow fields behind us, Pacific Ocean out in front of us. Like, I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing.

[Steven Rinella]

Ducks everywhere, man.

[Corey Calkins]

I was thinking about how the duck hunting was going here because there were so many mallards, greenheads still out there on the peninsula.

[Steven Rinella]

You know what the problem is though? Pacific Flyway, they're eating salmon eggs.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Oh, I had no idea.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, dude. It's like eating a sea monster, man.

[Corey Calkins]

But I was just like, boy, there's a lot of green like full plumage mallards here. Which means like the folks in the Pacific Flyway probably aren't shooting a bunch of mallards right now, was my thought.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Are the salmon eggs like their diet or like a part of their diet?

[Steven Rinella]

Open that stuff, man. I'm not saying all, but even geese too, they eat a lot of up there. They eat a lot of inverters, invertebrates, and they eat a lot of washed out salmon eggs. So you'll get. Their crop will have salmon eggs in it.

[Spencer Newhart]

They just taste like a mergain.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, it's rugged. It's rugged. I got a bite that grew up in southeast Alaska. And he said, you know, they tried, tried eventually just. He said, you just don't eventually. Like you just didn't look at the ducks as like a game bird because you just couldn't get through them. And I've had the same thing every time you eat one of those saltwater estuary in that area. Salmon, stream ducks. It's like when you go there in September and they're all hanging out the mouth of the stream.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They're not there on accident, you know.

[Spencer Newhart]

Huh. I'm surprised that works its way out of their system by the time they get to us. If it's like that pungent.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I think they burned through it quick. I don't know. Anyhow, Ducks. You saw them?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Check.

[Corey Calkins]

And there were wolves on the airstrip when we flew in.

[Steven Rinella]

Really.

[Corey Calkins]

Which I immediately was like, well, we're not going to shoot a wolf this trip. I would have been my percentage wise. I'm like, if they weren't, that was my opportunity.

[Steven Rinella]

I couldn't take it.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yeah. And we didn't see any wolves. We did a lot of wolf howling.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh.

[Corey Calkins]

After, after we got. Got the bear, but got one really legit, perfect stock in with the bow on a big sow. And it was one of those things where you're like, oh, that's probably a sow. And. But it's a mature bear, no cubs. We got to watch her for miles. And eventually she came like Right into the airstrip and decided to take a nap.

[Steven Rinella]

Is there such thing as wnfl? No.

[Corey Calkins]

Well, you could say like a women's rugby player.

[Steven Rinella]

There you go.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Job. Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Serious athletes. And they're like, man, that's not a bear. I'd tell you to kill on day two or three. I can't remember what it was, but I was just like, guys, this is as close to a bird in the hand situation. And. And I got. I have a bow. Like, I wanna. We gotta go try and so that just worked out magically, that sow, because it's like the myth of the dry sow. You never know if they are. But this looked like an old bear.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And she had no cubs. So math is kind of like, she's too old to just be a bad mom, probably.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And lose the cubs. And it's not like kicking cub out season type of thing. So anyway, pretty sure it was a dry sow and very sure it was an older bear. And then when we got down there, got off the glass and knob, she started working her way towards us into the wind. And we. And that was one of the funny things is, like, the wind was absolutely dead wrong from the glass and knob. But we had put ribbons out on the landing strip so you could see. So the pilots could see the wind direction and people on the ground could call wind for the guys flying the super cubs. So you'd glass down at the ribbons and you're like, well, it's doing that down there. Which was awesome.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

But man. Yeah. We got on the ground and I'm looking through this clump of willow out in this, like, nice kind of hummock of pretty hard tundra. And I'm like, oh, she's coming right. Right to us. And part of me thinks that she caught a whiff of us and was kind of curious because she, like, you know, you're like, well, they didn't read the script. This one, like, read the script and was like, oh, I'm supposed to arbitrarily pick this bush where three dudes are hiding and. And go walk past it. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, holy. And they walk so fast. It's deceiving. Right. I'm like, oh, my God, this is really happening. So I range something. I jam my binoculars back and my. My chest back. I kind of look over my shoulder and I look, and this bear is. I'm like, she's gonna walk at 20 yards, 25 at the furthest. Perfectly broadside. And about the time I Think that she just stands straight up and looks over the top of the bush at us and. And then drops down and spins and. And walks out of there.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, man.

[Corey Calkins]

And I was. I had enough time to be like, well, I don't really want to shoot her in the chest because I want lungs. Just kind of playing the math game. And I'm just like, not comfortable with, like, where that heart is right there.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And I.

[Steven Rinella]

Is that not a good shot for archery?

[Corey Calkins]

I don't think it's a good shot. Like, there's a lot of cavity there.

[Steven Rinella]

That I'm like, standing up. I just feel like everything's on full display, man.

[Corey Calkins]

I know.

[Steven Rinella]

And you're gonna have good blood because the hole's gonna be in the bottom.

[Corey Calkins]

The hole's in the bottom.

[Spencer Newhart]

And they make a lot of 3D targets.

[Corey Calkins]

They make all the 3D targets. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because that appeals to a certain human.

[Corey Calkins]

And here's something fun. I never hit those.

[Spencer Newhart]

That's what made that.

[Corey Calkins]

So when I was at the Shields Archery University in South Dakota this year. Yeah, we had that stupid target. I didn't hit it. I mean, I hit it. I just didn't hit it where I was supposed to.

[Steven Rinella]

So anyway, wasn't what you were after.

[Corey Calkins]

But it was enough of a. Like, she stood up and I looked at her and you could just see the scars on her face. And that was just an amazing thing. And she turns around and everybody's like, whoa, whoa. That was a hell of an experience. And she gets out there to 60 yards and I'm like, trying to like, mouse squeal at her, like, trying to make kissy face and trying to like, get her to stop. And she stops at 60 and like looks back at us and just does this full mouth, sleepy ass yawn, tongue all the way out, and then turns and just cruises on. I was like, well, it wasn't a heart thumping moment for her, obvious, so. But that was just super cool.

[Steven Rinella]

She didn't think it was super cool to see you guys.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah. Like her. Her pulse didn't quicken. She was just like set, stood up, looked over the top. So that was cool. And then, yeah, we just got like pummeled with rain and wind and. And we were underneath the tarp for like 13 hours. And right at dark, the. It like light lightens up a little bit so it's like misty rain instead of like full on nasty grand birds start blowing up in this side channel where we had seen the big bear opening morning.

[Steven Rinella]

That tells you one stern in there.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Exactly. Yep. Like so the seagulls start.

[Steven Rinella]

Is it the bears spook and the goals or the goals follow the bear?

[Corey Calkins]

I think it's the goals are because at this point you could tell from all the salmon carcasses they're not eating fish, they're eating the brain. And they're ripping out the. Oh the.

[Steven Rinella]

So the birds hang out to get the, the, the.

[Corey Calkins]

All the eggs that are flying around. And when you're walking on those streams, you know, it just smells like ultra death rancid and there's eggs everywhere and.

[Steven Rinella]

That'S a very hard smell to be around for days.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

They just go for the brain.

[Corey Calkins]

So early in the season when the fish start coming in, they'll eat the whole fish. And then as the land of plenty occurs, they're like laying on the bank like snagging the ones that they want as they come by and they're, they're searching out these zones. We saw some amazing bear fishing activity, but they're searching out these zones where it's like the easiest possible thing. Like the side channels where the fish are going through skinny water and, and.

[Steven Rinella]

I've seen black bears duke it out over who gets to be in the sweet spot. And a line form, line form where like you come out, they take their turn. The big mean one gets what it's after and then any, the next guy runs out to try to get a minute in the spot.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And you know, I was like, well this isn't a good idea because we're going to be in a situation where we don't like get to judge. Like it's, it's going to be really quick if it happens. It's, it's getting dark, it's foggy. I grabbed the rifle and we trucked out out there. Because you also just want to move and do something at the end of 13 hours in the rain underneath the tarp. Right. And everybody did. So we go out there, stand on this gravel bar. It's like a 15 minute walk from camp. And we're looking and immediately you're like, yeah, we're not going to be able to see anything. Like at 200 yards it's like foggy and stuff in that side channel. And again like I want to like if I'm going to shoot it with a rifle, I want to be a big ass bear. And I'm like we kind of do a little wrap up scene and I'm like all right, this and then let's go, go back to the shack and we take like Five steps. And then all this crashing and water splashing. And here comes this cow moose charging across the river right in front of us. Stops at 40 yards. She's huffing and puffing and blowing. Her eyeballs are crazy and her head's on a swivel. And she sees us and she's panicked. And then trucks back across the river. And the guy's right. She's getting chased by a bear. Like, ah, yeah, maybe. And so I kind of recount that to dirt meth. Garrett Smith's around the camera. I'm like, hey, this is what happened. And now we're. Now we're really heading back. And then splashing and crashing and all. And all. And I look, and here comes this brown bear trucking across the river. And so at this point, I got around in the chamber and both guides are there too, right? Like, there's a 375 here and a 375 on both my shoulders. Garrett's behind us. The bear comes ripping across the river, same deer deal, crashing and water flying. And it hits that spot where the cow moose was standing. And at this point, Kyle on my right hand side is going, it's your call, it's your call, it's your call. And I'm like, okay. Like, this isn't like the bear I want with, with a rifle. And I'm like, I'm ready in case things get crazy serious. But I mean, it is, realistically, it's plenty serious. It's 40 yards. Like, they can move fast, you know, and that bear kind of like drops its shoulder and turns its head. And Brando on my left goes, you better shoot that freaking bear. And you know, I'm like. And I shoot. And the bear dives into the brush. Kyle shoots one more time. And now I'm like, okay, now we got a situation on our hands. Like, I know I thumped this bear. I pretty sure Kyle got another shot in there too. But it's in this, like now it's dark and it is in this just dripping wet alder hellhole. Hell hole. But we heard a death moan right then too. But I mean, it's 15, 20 yards type of distance. And your headlamp is very necessary, but at the same time it's just like reflecting light back at you. Yeah, so you're kind of like doing this like, thing because all that moisture. Yeah, yeah. And you got your guns out, right? And it is like, it's foggy and crappy and the whole thing. And I'm like, okay, guys, let's like Got guns, it's dark, got a bear in here. Like, what's our plan? And we start easing into this thing and blood trailing. And I can tell Garrett Smith's having no fun at all.

[Steven Rinella]

That made Dirt nervous.

[Corey Calkins]

He told me. He goes, cal, I was scared. It's like, okay, good to know. And, and then, yeah, here's this bear piled up in there.

[Steven Rinella]

Dead or dead?

[Corey Calkins]

And dead. Dead. Yeah. Which was, which was great. But it was, you know, like it's in a, just a total willow hole. And then you're thinking about all the other bears around because we'd seen so many bears that.

[Steven Rinella]

How many?

[Corey Calkins]

It's not like this is the one. Well, that day that we flew in was the first break in the weather in like the entire peninsula season, including moose. And you know, I had friends up there too, like Adam and Brenda Weatherby were up there and they had a horrific time weather wise for moose season, which just ended. And then brown bear season starts and there's a little gap in between. And so this was like the first nice day and we probably saw 30 bears and I would say probably like 17ish unique bears. Like there were a lot of sows and cubs running around that day. But like you very fast got the impression like, oh my God, this is a high density bear situation. Right. Because they're not spread out because the, the salmon spawning activity happens like in a relatively small area and the rivers and the creeks really aren't that long.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, right.

[Corey Calkins]

It's like you can see the glacial snow situation up here and the Pacific's right here. It's like you can hike to the head, the very headwater in a hard day, you know, from, from the ocean. So it's a pretty concentrated situation.

[Steven Rinella]

Compressed.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep, yep. So, you know, I, I really think safety wise, like totally made the right call. You don't get that much time to decide and things can change right away. But as I said, I was like, there's no such thing as almost getting charged. So I don't want anybody saying we almost got charged. It's like you almost, you do or you don't. That's, that's all, that's all there is to it.

[Steven Rinella]

Unless you get to interview the bear.

[Corey Calkins]

Unless he could interview the bear. And he was like, oh, I was coming after your ass.

[Steven Rinella]

Changed my mind at the last minute. Almost charged you.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it's not like that big giant bear that was like the ultimate goal or, or the bear with the bow. But it is a totally badass animal and, and Very, very appreciative of the experience and, and everything. And, and I did some cooking in camp for those guys and you know, big stigma around those bears. The bit, the meat. I thought the meat was very good. The context really does matter. Like meat in camp when everybody is just coated in grizzly bear fat that smells like fish and then the, the clean air outside of you and the human stank and the bear stank is decaying fish. Yeah. And just general decay.

[Steven Rinella]

It's called a miasma.

[Corey Calkins]

Kind of miasma kind of taints your taste buds.

[Steven Rinella]

Sure. Everything tastes like a rotten fish.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. But. Yeah, but I, I think that.

[Steven Rinella]

Lick your lips.

[Corey Calkins]

I think the bear is good. The bear is good. And the. I cleaned up all that meat when I got it home.

[Steven Rinella]

Can you give, can you give me a chunk of the meat?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got a brisket and front shoulder and a hind quarter and then we left.

[Randall Williams]

And the tongue.

[Corey Calkins]

And a tongue.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I'll pass on that. I just want the meat. I just want to try the meat.

[Corey Calkins]

It's a different type of tongue too. You can imagine. It's like a, it's like a big dog tongue.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I'm like a border collie tongue opposed to it. But I just want.

[Corey Calkins]

Yep, yep.

[Spencer Newhart]

You don't want to over ask. Take his one tone.

[Steven Rinella]

No, I just want a nice little. I want like, like a. Just. I want to have the, the fishy representative. Yeah. I want to have the like fall fish, bear, brown bear, ch. Meat. Not, not an oddball cut, right?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, I don't want like the liver.

[Corey Calkins]

I will tell you that the difference between the, the spring bears, the, the two that I've been around for the hiding and fleshing and this fall bear is like, it would have taken like some fortitude to be like, okay, I'm going to cut off some big chunks of meat off this spring bear and cook it and eat it because it, it's a totally different animal. Like what I saw in on that spring hunt is like they're, they're emaciated. That fat is not white. It's like yellow and kind of hard. And they, and the smell is way, way more just generally rancid. It's like an ultra concentrated rotten fish. And then the, the freshness, like immediately like you're looking at the fat, you're like, oh, that's beautiful. You look the meat, you're like, the meat is beautiful. And then you just kind of have like this different smell to deal with. You know, I made. I, you know, it's like that guard piece of meat that I'm sure has a real name on the front shoulder that you know, you typically like just throw in the grind pile. When I was cleaning that up back here, I just took that and sliced it real thin and made a stir fry and I thought it was like fantastic.

[Steven Rinella]

Really?

[Corey Calkins]

I did not put fish sauce in my, in my stir fry. Just kind of like, you know, just a preemptive step. But I thought, yeah, fantastic. And I fed it to folks at the, at the BHA office. And I will tell you, like, people were like, oh, that's great. And then some people were like, I would like the stir fry sauce recipe, not the grizzly bear recipe.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I got you.

[Corey Calkins]

So yeah. Hell of a trip. Hell of a trip.

[Steven Rinella]

Kind of jealous of that.

[Corey Calkins]

You should be. You should be. I mean, but it is definitely just not. Jason Raring was on that trip. Right. So he doesn't do a lot of those types of adventures. And he and I are going to do a little recap podcast on that because I really want his 2 cents. It's, you know, it's just like not a recreational spot. Right. Like even the Alaska natives and the Alaskans, they don't like go out there just to hang out. It's like a purpose driven destination.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

You know, so it, it like it's a harsh environment.

[Steven Rinella]

Hmm.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Thanks for the report.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Turned out longer than I thought it'd be, but.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, that's great.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

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[Steven Rinella]

I was going to tell you guys about Did I? Did I Were we recording when I teased the Tony Peterson whitetail deer thing?

[Randall Williams]

No, but you asked us to ask you about it.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, can you ask me? Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

What was the thing you said about you were going to say earlier about Tony Peterson, but then didn't say.

[Corey Calkins]

Said ask me about.

[Spencer Newhart]

What's he bad?

[Steven Rinella]

Oh yeah.

[Randall Williams]

What does he not care about?

[Steven Rinella]

Well, no. I've hunted whitetails with Tony Peterson two times now. Okay. I hunted public ground in Oklahoma with Tony Peterson and I hunted private ground in Nebraska with Tony Peterson. Tony Peterson has an amazing ability to determine where a buck is going to step, meaning the kind of what I picked up that differs from when I was a kid bow hunting whitetails in Michigan before I moved away. You would like we would optimize growing up. You would optimize for like where would I be to see a lot of deer activity? Because if I'm seeing a lot of deer activity, then it seems to me like there's a greater chance that one will come by. Right. That dude sets up to have with one objective in mind. It's where will you have a buck 20 yards away broadside. Nothing else matters. He will set you up where you can't see a patch of ground bigger than that musk ox hide. But he is like a buck will come and stand in front of that muskox hide. And they do. And they do. It's like he has got a phenomenal sense of like, you know, wind, whatever, how they're going to travel, when they're going to travel, where they're going to Come from. They're going to come from the right. Whatever.

[Phil]

Just.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like. It's kind of uncanny. Just. And it's. It's like. It's myopic, you know, it's. Where. Where will he be? 20 yards away. Broadside.

[Spencer Newhart]

My elevator pitch. For Tony, I've worked with dozens of, like, professional, really good whitetail hunters. I've interviewed hundreds of them from working at outdoor magazines and hosting wire to hunt rut fresh. Tony is the best public land bow hunter I've ever met. I just, like, don't think there's many people better than him on the continent. It's, like, special what he can do when, you know, starting at e. Scouting and then showing up there in person and just killing a buck. You know, very few people can do it like him.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, it's. I kind of, like, I start to kind of see, like, I. I kind of get what he's looking at. We're hunting my neighbor, and my neighbor even said to me, after he goes, man, what do you. Like, what. What would we have done? What do you think would have happened with what would we have done? I said, I don't know, man. We would, like, I don't know, haunted scrapes. I don't know, like, whatever. Like, oh, a lot of tracks here.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Or probably would be like, yeah, sit here, because you can see what's going on. Whatever. It's just. It's funny. He just, like, doesn't care about anything other than, like, where is the spot where the buck. And then the other thing he's just dogmatic about is he's got his north wind spots, his south wind spots, his east wind spots, his west end spots, his southeast wind spots. And there's in that. That is. Is determinative. Like, there is no you. There's no room in his mind for, like, wishful thinking. Like, well, you know, the wind's not great, but, you know, you get into that little trap like, you know where you want. You know where you want to be. So bad. Marginal wind, and then the wind's, like, kind of off. But some parties, like, well, the wind's bad, but it's not so bad that it doesn't, like, make up for the good. It's just done.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You don't even talk about that spot. You don't talk about that spot unless the wind is absolutely perfect for that spot. You don't even look at it on a map. It's not an option.

[Corey Calkins]

Back when I was in my archery elk guiding days, I would have a Talk with, with my, my guests, my clients. On setting up in spots. You don't want to set up in a spot where you can view nature. Yeah, because.

[Steven Rinella]

But I kind of do.

[Corey Calkins]

Because your goal is to kill nature. Like, you need to set up in a spot where you're going to kill nature, not view nature.

[Spencer Newhart]

That's the thing. You have to like, fight when you are deciding where to sit.

[Steven Rinella]

And I would curse him. I'd get up because he had gone and set stands. I get up there like, oh my God, this is such a Tony Peterson sp. You can't see a thing. You can't see a thing. And you better be ready.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because you're not gonna see it coming.

[Spencer Newhart]

That's, that's.

[Steven Rinella]

But then lo and behold, there. That son of is something those guys have in common.

[Spencer Newhart]

Is like they, they hunt a lot of spots that are top pin territory where like you, you wouldn't. There's no scenario where you'd need to look at your second pin on the bow.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, yeah. He's not talking about sneaking one in at 40. It's like he wants deer in your lap. Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. You're not. You don't get up and like start range. Finding different things. It's like, dude, you like. If you want range, find some stuff at the outer edge of your view. It's like 22 yards. Yeah, 22 yards. 23 yards. What?

[Corey Calkins]

What? Height?

[Steven Rinella]

Low.

[Corey Calkins]

No way.

[Steven Rinella]

That kills me.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

His setups are low.

[Corey Calkins]

Interesting.

[Steven Rinella]

And he could have the world's greatest tree 10ft away. But it's not like he like a great. Where you'd be like watching.

[Corey Calkins]

It's a viewing tree. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You'd be watching ducks out in the slough. You know, whatever. Like if you're like 10ft over that way. He doesn't care. Dude, he doesn't care.

[Spencer Newhart]

What is Tony bad at? Because you had you observed something wildlife viewing. Good at. Oh, okay.

[Randall Williams]

Enjoying the experience.

[Spencer Newhart]

He's not making a nature documentary.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, he's bad at wildlife viewing. Doing or not bad at it. Just he likes birds and stuff. But no, he's not. His setups aren't meant to be that It's a great place to hang out. But dude, I like, I, I. After we went, you know, we got like a buck on day one, we got a buck on day two, we got a buck on day four.

[Spencer Newhart]

That's great.

[Steven Rinella]

They're all 20 yard shots, all 20 yard shots, all broadside. And after that I was like, I get it, I get it.

[Spencer Newhart]

I haven't seen.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Because that's a pretty good success rate.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

I haven't seen the deer you and your neighbor killed, but I saw the one Tony killed.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. What.

[Spencer Newhart]

What were those deer like that you and Eight Points?

[Steven Rinella]

They went progressively smaller. You know, my neighbor got a nice one. You know, like a nice. Like, wow. I'll show you a picture of mine. It's like a. Like an eight, you know, a year wide. Shorter. Timed eight.

[Spencer Newhart]

Very efficient. Kill three bucks in four days.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

And then does Tony entertain at all, like, on a trip like that?

[Steven Rinella]

No.

[Corey Calkins]

When you go, oh, you know what I mean?

[Steven Rinella]

Like, entertain, like, hey, do stuff. So everybody has fun appetizers before dinner.

[Corey Calkins]

When you give him a classic Steven Rinella, like, you know what I would have done?

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, you're not. Not interested.

[Corey Calkins]

He's like, you're not. You're so far below my level that.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but I. I, like, deferred because. Because I. I would. I just openly defer to him in that space. You know, if we're doing something like, you know, if we're doing other kinds of things, I wouldn't, you know.

[Corey Calkins]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, there's other outdoor activities where I might not care at all what he thinks.

[Randall Williams]

It'd be dismissive and hostile to.

[Steven Rinella]

But, no, I'm like, hey, what do you think? What do you think? Because I just. I appreciate his way of looking at things. So he was in the driver's seat. Yeah, he was in the driver's seat. He knew that I have a preference for trees over being on the ground. And I'd say, if it's sixes, I like to be in a tree. And he. That probably, like, factored into his head a little bit.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

But it's so funny, dude. Like, the one I got came from the drag. Came from the direction it came from, the direction he imagined it coming from on the trail he imagined it walking on. I remember even saying, like, talking about. At that tight. When it's that tight, like, trying to get your bow back. He's like, oh, this time of year, they're so distracted, you know? And I see it coming, and I'm like, I'm not gonna draw till he's underneath me. I just catch him coming, like, from the right.

[Spencer Newhart]

You hear him or see him first?

[Steven Rinella]

No, didn't. It was pretty windy. Didn't see it then. Didn't hear him see him. Like, here he is. He just. But he's, like, 10 steps away from being underneath me. I remember. And I was just standing there. Ready. Sorry. Seated.

[Randall Williams]

Ready?

[Steven Rinella]

But I could shoot that way. Seated.

[Corey Calkins]

And where did the deer stop?

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I was like, it was so tight. I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna get my bow back. He's gonna stop when I draw, so I'm not gonna draw until he's in my pocket and he gets in my pocket and draw and I draw. And somehow, miraculously, he doesn't see me draw, which I couldn't believe. So then I made. Just made a little map. But I was already. I was for a minute entertaining the idea. He's walking so, like, kind of slow with his nose to the ground. I was entertained for a minute just shooting like that. But I'm. Dude, it's like. It's like right where? Right where? Yeah, right on the edge of what I could see. No, it's cool. He's got like a. It's a cool skill set, man. It's a cool skill set. All those years, like we would. When I was, you know, 12 year old, whatever, out, you know, hunting, be like. You'd set up, you know, to be like the field you always see the deer in. So you hunt a tree in the corner. Because the deer are always walking around out in that field. And then you'd sit there and they'd not come out under you. But you got to watch them all night.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, and if you, like, ran a thing, like a math problem, be like, okay, I'm here in my tree. This is a, you know, a 30 acre field, 30 acre alfalfa field. I'm in my tree. I can shoot a little 20 yard circle around me. And I'm only just planning on one walking out in the field and meandering over my way. And then you realize the deer in your area have a thing where they like trot to the middle of the alfalfa field because they're so tuned in the fact that, like, the edge sucks. Like, when you're on the edge, some kid shoots an arrow at you. But if you run out to the middle, nothing bad ever happens.

[Spencer Newhart]

Generations of deer know that.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Mom's like, no, no, don't hang out in the. Especially that black cherry tree.

[Randall Williams]

Especially the trees. The big straight trees.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, the big cherry tree that the people are always in. Just run out and feed all you want. They can't reach you with their arrows.

[Corey Calkins]

My one tree stand, whitetail experience was in Minnesota, and it was the seeing deer that I hated because I was like, I'm stuck in this stupid tree. The deer out there.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I always felt like you're doing something right if you're looking at him.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, Tony feels like you're doing something right. When he's 20 yards away, he'd be.

[Randall Williams]

Like, we watching deer all night, just didn't get a shot. Yeah, you might as well have been another state.

[Steven Rinella]

You came close, huh? Felt close. Wasn't close.

[Randall Williams]

They just didn't want to cooperate.

[Steven Rinella]

Wasn't close.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah, Tony's good at thinking about it. But then he also works really hard too. Like, you don't. You don't get that success without both of those things. Because it's a lot of work just to go hang a tree stand. And then if you're. You're hunting for every wind with three guys, how many stands did he have hung? 10.

[Steven Rinella]

He had a natural blind. He had maybe four pop ups. Five, six trees.

[Spencer Newhart]

That's a lot of work.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a ton of work, man. Yeah, listen, I was at his. It was basically like. It was basically we were hanging out, you know, but it was basically the treatment you would like, it exceeded the treatment you would get. Were you to hire an outfitter?

[Spencer Newhart]

Sure.

[Steven Rinella]

What we brought to the table is my. It's my neighbor's family's. My neighbor's family's farm. So he's like, they kind of didn't need you. Oh, I didn't bring anything. No. You weren't entertaining me that. No, they didn't need me for anything. Oh, they didn't need me for anything. I was just there hanging out, having a good time. It was impressive. He's cool. He's cool. It's cool to watch him hunt those whitetails.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

If you want to think like. Tony hosts the Wired Hunt Foundations podcast. And what I love about that is they're like 15 minute episodes. So you can go and you can knock out a whole bunch of them and, you know, see how a really good whitetail public land bow hunter like him thinks.

[Steven Rinella]

What's funny too is once he gets it, he ceases to care about the deer. Do you know what I'm saying? He just saws off the skull plate. He'll just throw it into a pile. Yeah. Like, once he's got it, it's like that. He doesn't fetishize the antlers, do you know? I mean, they're just like. They just become like another one for the pile. He likes the hunt, dude. You know? I mean, he likes the hunt, huh? Yeah. He's not like, oh, these are going to go in a special corner, you know, on the Old mantle piece. What are you gonna do with those? Put them in my pile of antlers. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

What I like about Tony, if we're all doing this, is he's just a very funny man. Just a very sarcastic, funny man.

[Steven Rinella]

He's very interested in outer space.

[Spencer Newhart]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, yeah.

[Randall Williams]

We were talking about that when we went fishing.

[Steven Rinella]

Not in a weird way. Yeah. He wears that tinfoil hat from time to time. No, no, no, no. You think so? Oh, when I was warned about him originally, Mark Kenyon warned me about him in outer space. Yeah. I thought it was going to be like. Like aliens, like a bunch of hoodoo gibber. But it was. He bombarded me with like legit outer space stuff, like how far away is this? How fast is that? How dark that is? You know, we were not like. Not like getting attacked by aliens.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

We went fishing and. And I just finished reading the right stuff. And for whatever reason, space came up when he was like, yeah, I'm big on that.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

I was like, what do you mean?

[Steven Rinella]

It's a big space guy.

[Randall Williams]

And it was like I was hitting. It was like infielding practice where I was hitting grounders with what I knew. And he was just grabbing it and throwing me out.

[Steven Rinella]

At first, me and him shared my camper. He was over on the. One of my kids beds in the.

[Spencer Newhart]

Camper, a good guest.

[Steven Rinella]

I bet he brought a couple, two, three space books with him. He had his space books laid out. Not deer books. Fascinating.

[Randall Williams]

Fascinating.

[Corey Calkins]

The first thing he did when he laid down was put those stick on stars and planets.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm gonna get him a sign that says there's no bucks in space.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, there you go.

[Steven Rinella]

There you go. Might turn him off on the whole subject.

[Corey Calkins]

I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

He's gonna find space pinch points in space. Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

It is the opposite of everything that you've described so far.

[Steven Rinella]

What is?

[Randall Williams]

Just the interest in the infinite.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

And as a deer hunter, he's.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, it's a great point. Yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Maybe his setups all have a great view of the sky. Yeah. And I failed to notice. But no, now that I'm reviewing in my head. You can't see the sky either, huh? You just see a hole in front of you.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Maybe the good readings, the. The reading light is good.

[Corey Calkins]

I was. We're so pro whitetail right now. I was just thinking I was over at a friend's house. Went downstairs to use the bathroom. Never been there before. Went downstairs to use. Use the bathroom. And there's like many respectable whitetails on the Wall. And I came back up, and I'm like, oh, my God, that's a lot of. A lot of whitetail down there. And he just goes, yeah. Says something about Montana. I can't kill a big mule deer anymore. So you just end up with a whitetail.

[Steven Rinella]

Sure.

[Corey Calkins]

I was like, huh? A lot of people would be real excited about having those bucks on the wall.

[Spencer Newhart]

And he's got a basement.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Like, I don't know people in Montana with basements.

[Corey Calkins]

That's interesting.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Well, I grew up in a place where everyone had a basement. And then I came out here, and when we moved here, before we bought our house, we had looked at, like, 20 of them. When we came out, not a single one had a basement.

[Steven Rinella]

I was blown away.

[Spencer Newhart]

It was. It's because of, well, tornadoes.

[Steven Rinella]

The.

[Spencer Newhart]

The ground is extra rocky in the valley here, so that complicates it a little bit. And then I think the earthquakes also, they don't want to put a basement in with all.

[Steven Rinella]

We have a seismic. We have a full footprint crawl space. Six feet. No, five and a half feet deep, so you can't stand up in it. And I realized after a while, like, I guess if you went. Whatever you do normally. Yeah, nine feet, you'd be standing in two feet of water.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So it's like that deep for a reason. I'm like, what kind of lazy ass. We'll just scraped out the extra space so I could stand up down here when I'm sorting through my wife's Christmas decorations.

[Spencer Newhart]

Should have consulted you.

[Steven Rinella]

Mm. Well, I think I know why. Yeah. All right. Thanks, guys. Any else anybody needs to add? Thanks, Phil. Spencer.

[Spencer Newhart]

Thanks, Phil.

[Steven Rinella]

He doesn't want to talk about it. Where is that buck? I see it.

[Spencer Newhart]

He's getting taxidermy.

[Steven Rinella]

You're getting them taxidermy?

[Spencer Newhart]

No, just a year amount.

[Corey Calkins]

Nice.

[Steven Rinella]

Why'd you say taxidermy?

[Spencer Newhart]

Because I took it to a taxidermist to do that.

[Steven Rinella]

Really?

[Corey Calkins]

What. What'd you think about a camper you.

[Steven Rinella]

Brought to a tax. Nervous?

[Spencer Newhart]

Well, our girl Brooklyn, who works here, who, like, gives us all a nice discount. Yeah, of course I take it to her.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, that's who you had do it?

[Spencer Newhart]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, that's what I was gonna complain.

[Spencer Newhart]

About that I didn't take it to Brooklyn.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Spencer Newhart]

Oh, yeah. She's quick and cheap.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I've been sending her some business, too. Yeah, she does a nice job.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, they're very clean, like, evenly colored skull.

[Corey Calkins]

I took a bunch of stuff that's just been sitting around tour this year. But I did not take the brown bear tour.

[Steven Rinella]

You can get it beetled because I.

[Corey Calkins]

Want to get a beetle.

[Steven Rinella]

That's what I did. My boys black bear. My boy's first black bear. I got a beetled for him. So that. So it's real nasal cavities and real sound, you know?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What'd you think of that camper?

[Steven Rinella]

Loved it. Oh, good.

[Corey Calkins]

That thing is enormous.

[Steven Rinella]

It is, yeah.

[Corey Calkins]

How to pull?

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, we put stabilizer bars on it with that big diesel truck. You don't even know it's back there. That's good, but it's spacious. It's nice. Yeah. Me and Tony shared it. He felt like he was in outer space. He had so much space. I bet that's a spaceship. All right. Thanks, Phil.

[Clean the World Representative]

His little.

[Steven Rinella]

His little line. Phil, just let us go with. I thought we were done.

[Corey Calkins]

Oh, God.

[Steven Rinella]

I want you guys to hear Phil's British accent. Penny for a farthing in it. No, hit it. How you like to do it, Phil, that isn't it.

[Corey Calkins]

Okay.

[Phil]

The last time I did that, I was admonished. And then you came in here and that actors aren't real artists. And now you're asking me to. As your court jester, to start spitting.

[Steven Rinella]

Off lines, hit the boys with a Cratchit line.

[Phil]

God bless us, everyone.

[Corey Calkins]

Classic.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, that's a good one. This comes out December 15th.

[Spencer Newhart]

Can you do something Christmasy, though?

[Phil]

Is that. Is that not. I mean, that's as Christmas as it gets.

[Spencer Newhart]

Isn't there like a Merry Christmas in there somewhere?

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, do like where he's trying to tell Scrooge he should go home early because it's Christmas Eve.

[Phil]

Well, well, Scrooge ass. If I'd like the whole day. And then I say, well, if. If quite convenient, sir. And then he says, it's not convenient.

[Corey Calkins]

And it's not fair.

[Phil]

That's screw. That's my Scrooge. And then I say, well, it's. It's Christmas Day, so it's. It's only once a year. And then he says, well, fine. You have to come in two hours early tomorrow. And then I say, oh, yes, sir.

[Steven Rinella]

Merry.

[Phil]

Oh, I mean, good evening. That's how the scene goes.

[Steven Rinella]

It gets you out here, man. Gets you right here. That is art.

[Phil]

Oh, thanks, Spencer.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I take back that was art.

[Corey Calkins]

I had a guy from Ireland right in and. And congratulate me on the. The BHA position. And he said, are we still going? He said, I'm chuffed. I'm still.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm still watching cameras Spencer's done well.

[Spencer Newhart]

I'm following Randall's.

[Corey Calkins]

I didn't.

[Randall Williams]

I didn't realize we were still going earlier.

[Steven Rinella]

Cal took his off and he's still talking.

[Corey Calkins]

I just thought that was funny. Yeah, chuffed. And I was like, well, thank you. I'll have to look up. Look up what?

[Steven Rinella]

That is chuff.

[Corey Calkins]

It just means, like, you're excited, you're happy.

[Steven Rinella]

Chuffed, you're chuffed. I'm gonna start using that. That's like when I learned Latvians go blouch when a gun goes off, instead of bang, I'm gonna start doing chuff.

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Close to chafed, though.

[Corey Calkins]

Exactly opposite of fun, which is kind of fun. Like, you'd be like, I hear about Spencer's buck.

[Randall Williams]

I still can't believe. I can't understand if we're recording this podcast or not.

[Steven Rinella]

No, it's over. It's over. Spencer, I'd like to see your buck.

[Spencer Newhart]

Well, we have radio live this week. Steve is there. Me, Randall's there. We'll talk about it then.

[Steven Rinella]

Sounds good.

[Spencer Newhart]

How about then?

[Corey Calkins]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Thank you, everybody.

[Corey Calkins]

Thank you, Phil.

[Phil]

Great farthing.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first.

[Corey Calkins]

There, the last one.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

[Jay Shetty]

Some moments in life. Stay with you forever. In a special segment of On Purpose brought to you by ebay, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey, and how I was able to find the same exact edition on ebay. It was more than just a purchase. It was a reconnection with a memory that shaped my purpose. There are certain books that don't just give you information. They shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me. Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back. Not a reprint, that exact one. So I started searching. And that's when I found it on ebay. That's what I love about ebay, where you can rediscover the pieces of your past that still inspire your present. Shop ebay for millions of finds, each with a story. Ebay, things people love. Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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