The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 801: Extinct Elk, Meat Processing, and the Latest News | MeatEater Radio Live!

Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Brody Anderson (for Steven Rinella)
Guests: Jim Heffelfinger, Anna Borgman
Panel: Giannis (Yannis), Randall, Phil

Episode Overview

This live episode of MeatEater Radio explores the intersections of hunting, conservation biology, and wild food through three main lenses:

• The science and myths around extinct elk subspecies and the current research on Miriam’s elk
• Best practices and common pitfalls of wild game meat processing
• A robust open-floor news segment with listener Q&A and practical hunting hacks

The tone throughout is conversational, humorous, and rich with down-to-earth stories and technical info that empowers hunters and outdoor enthusiasts.

Main Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Post-Season Blues and Winter Plans

[02:26–05:58]

• The crew shares their melancholy now that big game season has ended, discussing plans for lion hunting, ice fishing trips, and general coping strategies during the winter lull.
• Miscellaneous banter about Montana weather changes, snow conditions for tracking, and a planned pike spearing trip.
  • “I got the mega post-big game season blues.” – Giannis [03:23]

2. Interview: Jim Heffelfinger on Extinct Elk and Subspecies

[05:58–26:09]

Elk Taxonomy and Subspecies Debate

• Jim introduces the "lumpers vs. splitters" dilemma in wildlife science—whether biologists favor clumping similar animals or dividing them into discreet subspecies.

  • “Lumpers focus on similarities...splitters focus on differences and want to split these animals up into a whole bunch of different categories.” – Jim Heffelfinger [07:47]

• The current consensus: only Roosevelt and Tule elk are genetically unique; Rocky Mountain, Manitoba, and Eastern elk are probably not meaningfully different.

History and Genetics of Miriam’s Elk

• Miriam’s elk, historically from AZ and NM, is extinct—gone by 1906, replaced by introduced Yellowstone elk.
• Jim's project: working with geneticists to test if Miriam’s elk justified subspecies status using DNA from recently-rediscovered museum specimens (now 13, up from 3).
  • “We now have identified 13 Miriam elk specimens. Instead of three, we have genetic samples from all 13.” – Jim Heffelfinger [15:10]
• Much discussion on whether reintroduced elk are ecologically out of place or if such distinctions even matter—most evidence suggests they are functionally the same.

Conservation, Management, and Local Color

• Fun historical aside: C. Hart Merriam, the namesake for Miriam’s elk, named 71 species, had family ties to Vernon Bailey (who described Eastern elk), and once drove Teddy Roosevelt around.
• Jim defers offering a verdict, but casts doubt that the differences between extinct and current elk are significant beyond environmental adaptation.
  • “It’s hard to envision how just those elk in Arizona and New Mexico were substantially different.” – Jim Heffelfinger [20:09]

3. News Roundup: Accidents, Regulations, & Wolves

[28:49–44:31]

A. Hunting Accidents & Firearm Safety [29:02]

• Randall comments on a recent spike in accidental hunter deaths, often during loading or unloading firearms.
  • Emphasis on constant vigilance, especially outside the range: “That stuff only happens when you aren’t constantly challenging yourself—did I unload this, did I see them unload this?” – Randall [30:15]
• Giannis stresses a no-tolerance policy as a guide; sometimes you must stop hunting with unsafe partners.

B. Idaho Over-the-Counter Tag System Overhaul [34:33]

• Idaho’s non-resident tag sales move from a virtual queue to a lottery application (Dec. 5–15).
  • $160–$185 non-refundable license required; simplifies access and levels the field.
  • “This just makes… the playing field for people…levels the playing field for people.” – Randall [38:45]
• Emphasize on resident hunter experience and overall hunt quality.

C. Colorado Wolf Reintroduction Update [39:43]

• Colorado struggling to source wolves for its reintroduction, as neighboring states and now federal regulation prevent Canadian imports.
• Budget vastly exceeded, with rancher compensation funds depleted.
  • “Some lawmakers in Colorado are calling the situation out of control.” – Brody [43:30]
• Overall, the reintroduction program may stall—political and logistical barriers ahead.

4. Listener Q&A & Hot Tips

[44:31–83:43]

• Practical OnX Hunt app hacks (rangefinder, route snapping, camera filtering).
• Mountain lions near schools (generally not lockdown-worthy in the West); audience shares unusual trophy/skull stories (e.g., turkey skulls, beaver skulls).
• Playful banter about stage fright, MeatEater tour prep, and who should be “Randall Claus.”

Hot Tip Off—Listener Competition

[72:04–83:30]

• Caden Bonner (NE): Makes an impromptu predator call with a Little Debbie snack wrapper.
• Dak Cash (AR): Teaches a traditional green-branch squirrel stringer method for hands-free carrying.
  • Audience votes Dak the winner (53%) for his charm and practicality.

5. Interview: Anna Borgman, Wild Game Butcher at Chaos Farms

[54:14–72:00]

Her Setup & Ethos

• Anna and her partner run a local, small-batch wild game processing business with a custom, mobile cooler-trailer—delivering high quality through careful handling.
  • “We do fewer than 100 [game animals] for sure...but it’s a lot of animals.” – Anna Borgman [56:12]

Field Best Practices for Hunters

• Take hooves off before packing—“extra weight and more hair and bacteria in the bag.”
  • “Take those hooves off...more hair, whatever was on that animal’s hoof...” – Anna Borgman [57:43]
• Keep meat as clean as possible—trash bags or clean ground cloths help; avoid dumping small, loose pieces into the game bag.
• Always remove the windpipe to prevent bacterial growth and heat retention in neck meat.
• Gutless method is fine for most cases, especially roadkill or backcountry scenarios.

Pitfalls and Refusals

• She refuses “filthy” or spoiled game and charges a cleaning fee when needed.
• Heat, poor planning, and failing to check with processors before drop-off can ruin an animal.

For New DIY Processors

• Don’t overthink it: “You can’t really mess it up… everything can be turned into burger or sausage.” [63:55]
• Sharp knife and honing steel are essential; she rarely needs full re-sharpening if she hones regularly.
• Main variable affecting meat loss is caliber/bullet placement—not copper vs. lead.

Most Often Overlooked Cuts

• Neck roasts, cheek meat (“elks have big cheeks, worth pulling”), tough cuts for braising.
• Hearts, tongues, and (if in good shape) livers.
  • “The more you play with it and the more you hunt, the more you’ve got options of what to cook.” – Anna Borgman [71:20]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Wildlife Taxonomy:
  “Merriam actually designated 84 different brown bear and grizzly bear species—not even subspecies.” – Jim Heffelfinger [07:55]

• On Safety:
  “It’s kind of fun to tell stories…but it’s very serious business whenever you have loaded guns around.” – Randall [31:40]

• On Regulations:
  “Idaho...they really cap their non-resident numbers...so it gives their residents...a quality hunt.” – Giannis [38:51]

• On Meat Processing:
  “Don’t overthink it…everything’s edible as long as it’s clean.” – Anna Borgman [63:55]

• On Adaptability:
  “You can’t really mess it up…everything can be turned into burger or sausage.” – Anna Borgman [63:55]

Time-Stamped Key Segments

• Big Game Blues, Winter Plans: [02:26–05:58]
• Jim Heffelfinger (Elk & Subspecies Biology): [05:58–26:09]
• News Roundup (Accidental Deaths, Idaho Tags, Wolf Update): [28:49–44:31]
• Listener Q&A & Trivia: [44:31–83:43]
• Anna Borgman (Meat Processing): [54:14–72:00]
• Hot Tip Off: [72:04–83:30]

The Episode’s Takeaway

This episode is a crash course in patience, adaptability, and scientific humility, set against the backdrop of life in the heart of hunting country. You’ll leave with practical field tips, perspective on North America's complex wildlife heritage, and a hint of the camaraderie and debate at the pulse of hunting culture.

For More:

• Follow Jim Heffelfinger’s ongoing research on southwestern elk genetics.
• Seek out Anna Borgman’s butchering demos on Instagram for smart game handling tips.
• Tune in for lively discussions, live shows, and new episodes of MeatEater’s "Roasts" on YouTube.