Ep. 807: Dew Claws, Buck Nuts, and Christmas Trees | MeatEater Radio Live!

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 807: Dew Claws, Buck Nuts, and Christmas Trees | MeatEater Radio Live!

Original Air Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Spencer (filling in; Steven Rinella not present this episode)
Guests: Cal, Corey, Phil (regulars), Matt Ross (National Deer Association), Trent Pressler (author, "Evergreen")

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Main Theme

This lively MeatEater Radio Live! episode explores quirky and practical facets of the outdoor/hunting world with warmth and humor, touching on everything from myths about deer tracks, European mount hacks, holiday feasts with wild game, and the cultural/natural history of Christmas trees. The episode delivers hunting lore, deep cuts on ecological issues, and plenty of laughs as the crew heads into Christmas.

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Episode Outline & Key Segments

1. Holiday Wild Game Meals & Traditions

(02:52 – 09:30)

• The crew discusses their plans for Christmas meals, with a focus on wild game and creative cooking styles.
  • Cal’s Plan: Standing antelope rib roast for Christmas Eve, cooked medium rare.
    • “It’ll be like an appetizer type of deal, you know?... I struggle with making things fancy… Just medium rare, man.” (03:56–04:33, Cal)
  • Corey’s Plan: Christmas night fondue with wild game sausage, steak bites, cheese, fruits, breads. Breakfast: black bear biscuits and gravy.
  • Spencer’s Plan: Deep-frying his first turkey (a hen from Idaho) as part of an ambitious five-course meal.
    • The team discusses the practicalities: brining, air drying, and not overcooking wild turkey.
    • “You just don’t. Do not overcook that stuff. And it looks real pretty.” (04:33, Cal)
    • “Post-brine… budget in 12 hours of air circulation in the refrigerator, drying out.” (07:12, Cal)

Memorable Moment

– Spencer’s excitement and nerves around hosting a multi-course Christmas meal, capped with his wild turkey:
“That’s going to be the fifth and final course. It’s going to be the climax of the whole meal, so… A lot of pressure.” (08:17–08:25, Spencer)

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2. The Truth About Deer Tracks – Interview with Matt Ross (National Deer Association)

(09:30 – 19:16)

• Dew Claws: Explanation of what they are and their evolutionary background.
  • “Dew claws are… vestigial. They’re like a remnant digit… most animals… have dew claws. … On deer itself, they’re those extra digits… a little bit up from the actual hoof.” (10:12, Matt Ross)
• Mythbusting:
  • Dew claw track impressions do not indicate a buck – both does and bucks have them. (11:51, Matt Ross)
  • Hoof spread is also not reliable for sexing tracks; weight, gait, substrate have more influence. (12:24, Matt Ross)
  • Tracks are rarely “fingerprints,” though unique injuries/damage can make one distinguishable. (13:16 onward)
  • The only mostly reliable method: The very biggest tracks likely belong to bucks (but there’s a lot of overlap).
    • “Simply put, dew claws don’t mean much… the very biggest tracks in the woods likely belong to bucks.” (17:24, Spencer)
• What else can be learned:
  • Freshness, direction, and abundance of tracks are more meaningful for hunting than sexing animals by track.
    • “Freshness of the sign… the preponderance of lots of tracks in an area just [shows] deer activity…” (17:40, Matt Ross)

Notable Quotes

• “If you’re saying just because dew claws are present in the track, it must be a buck, that… could be a buck, but it’s not a definitive thing. Both sexes have them.” (11:51, Matt Ross)
• “There’s a lot you can get out of tracks. Freshness of the sign… that’s probably one of the most undervalued types of sign…” (17:40, Matt Ross)
• Comic Exchange:
  • Cal: “If you come across, like, a deer with the big red nose, is that… a shoot/don’t shoot scenario?”
  • Matt: “I think that one’s off limits for all people.” (18:54–19:11)

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3. Listener Hot Tip-Off: European Mounts

(19:21 – 24:46)

• Segment Format: Two listeners submit head-to-head practical hunting tips.
• Luke Long: Bending cheap metal wall brackets for perfect European mount display hangers.
• Jack Anderson: Using a thermostat-controlled water heater for skull maceration instead of boiling—simpler, preserves detail.
• Panel’s Reaction:
  • Corey and Spencer favor Jack’s method for improving a tedious task.
    • “That’s just like… taking a really sucky choreography and making it much less sucky… a crock pot version.” (23:39, Spencer)
  • Cal prefers Luke’s, praising its simplicity for non-handy folks.
• Chat poll winner: Jack Anderson (62%).

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4. Live Listener Q&A and Banter

(28:34 – 36:33)

• Guide opinions on 7mm Rem Mag: Mostly due to poor ammo availability in early years, not caliber ballistics.
• Jerky methods: Preference for dehydrators (set/forget) vs. pellet grills (fine product, but less convenient in winter).
• Favorite Christmas movies:
  • “It’s a Wonderful Life,” “Scrooged,” “Elf,” “The Night Before,” “A Christmas Carol,” “Home Alone.” Music: Casey Musgraves, Michael Bublé, Vince Guaraldi.
  • “If Mariah Carey’s on there, I will shove you to the floor.” (33:27, Cal)
• Christmas trees: Some panelists admit to using fake trees; others prefer real cut trees for outdoor tradition.

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5. The Meat Pole Game

(36:33 – 45:19)

• Format: Hosts predict survey results from 500 MeatEater listeners.
  1. Would rather hunt deer in morning: Actual 64.8% (Cal wins)
  2. Have ridden a horse: Actual 81.8% (Corey wins, surprisingly high)
  3. Have eaten deer testicles: Actual 9.9% (Corey wins; lower than panel expected)
• Trivia and Banter:
  • Fun stats: more horse riders than golfers; history on testicle nutrition.
  • “Deer testicles are a superfood… similar to sardines and pork tenderloin.” (44:55, Spencer)
  • Panel favorite way to cook deer testicles: battered and fried as an appetizer.

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6. Feature Interview: Trent Pressler, Author of “Evergreen”

(49:11 – 64:16)

Evergreen Trees—History, Culture, Conservation

• Pine Trees & The Revolutionary War:
  • The “Pine Tree Riot” predated Boston Tea Party as a protest against the Crown’s claim to mast-worthy trees.
    • “Colonists got pretty mad… Eventually the King’s surveyors got painted with soot, whipped with pine branches, and sent out of town… That was the start of the American Revolutionary War.” (49:36–51:41, Trent Pressler)
• Evergreen Trees & Whaling:
  • Turpentine from conifers replaced whale oil as lighting fuel, ironically saving whale populations. (51:51–53:03)
• Lumberjack Lethality:
  • 19th-century lumberjacks faced extreme death rates; falling trees and primitive tools made it America’s most dangerous job. (53:23)
• The “Green Glacier” Problem:
  • Eastern red cedar is overtaking the Great Plains; lack of fire and bison allowed native trees to “invade” prairie, threatening grazing land and grassland ecology.
    • “It is an ecological crisis of epic proportions that I wish more people would pay attention to...” (54:47, Trent Pressler)
  • Cal ties this to grasslands conservation and contemporary ecological debate.
• Christmas Tree Industry Insights:
  • Most farms are small, aging; salary is low; land is usually marginal for other farming.
  • Declining real Christmas tree sales:
    • Down from 33 million (1985) to 12 million (2023); blamed on the “pernicious” rise of fake trees and climate change impacts (heat, drought, pests).
    • “Read my book. I make no bones about how I really feel about… fake Christmas trees.” (59:02, Trent Pressler)
  • Rockefeller Center Tree 'Scout':
    • Eric Pouts drives the northeast, quietly cataloging outstanding specimens, then negotiates with property owners.
    • “He’s already pretty much picked the tree for the next, like, five years.” (61:05, Pressler)
  • Conservation Verdict:
    • Trent: “Always buy a real tree” – supports wildlife, sequesters carbon, and prevents more plastic waste.
      • “The world doesn’t need more plastic… Artificial Christmas trees are similar to Ikea furniture; people usually throw them away after seven years… Real trees, they plant another one as soon as they cut it.” (62:28–63:49, Pressler)
  • Cal’s Admiration:
    • “How did you find this guest? Best guest ever.” (63:53, Cal)

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7. Segment: Tattoos I Regret

(66:24 – 71:02)

• The crew describes and playfully analyzes regretful/outdoor-themed tattoos submitted by listeners.
  1. Jack Shotgun’s Whitetail Buck Tattoo:
     • Borne of impulse—he lives in Utah and has never seen a whitetail. Regrets location, not artistry.
     • “It’s not a bad tattoo, but it’s not a great tattoo if you’ve never seen one.” (68:39, Spencer)
  2. Eric James’ Coordinates Tattoo:
     • Family fishing spot in tattoo’s coordinates; ironically, he once got lost and mocked by family for it. Panel jokes about “spot burning” your best honey hole for all to see.
     • “Can you imagine putting, like, your favorite spot in the mountains, the exact coordinates on your arm for all to see?” (70:37, Spencer)

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8. Extended Listener Q&A & Closing Banter

(71:07 – 79:02)

• Cooking antelope: Medium-rare recommended, avoid overcooking, tender steaks from neck to tail.
  • “Every antelope that I get, I try not to grind any of it because every steak… is just so darn delicious.” (73:12, Corey)
• Gifts for older hunters: ONX maps, hand/toe warmers, image-stabilizing binoculars, sturdy tripods for shooting.
• Favorite holiday drinks: Everything from beer, whiskey, vodka, to hot Dr. Pepper with rum, “cold weather” ales (Jubel Ale, Ninkasi Slayer), eggnog.
  • “I love a good eggnog. I do a homemade eggnog. The thing about eggnog is that I can’t drink a lot of it. I’m not much of a sipper…” (77:25, Phil)
• Using every part of the deer: Plans for rendering tallow into lip balm, lotion, boot balm, etc.
• Ugly sweater ideas: Listeners request a MeatEater Christmas sweater.

Sign-off:
“This is our last live show of the year. Thanks for listening, everybody. Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays. Happy New Year.” (78:49, Spencer)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Dew Claw Myths
  “If you’re saying just because dew claws are present in the track, it must be a buck, that… could be a buck, but it’s not a definitive thing. Both sexes have them.”
  — Matt Ross (11:51)

• Christmas Tree Conservation
  “Always buy a real tree. I will shout this from the top of every mountain. The world doesn’t need more plastic… Every time you buy an artificial tree… that means seven years of real trees not being purchased from small family farmers.”
  — Trent Pressler (62:28–63:49)

• Food Philosophy
  “I would rather have a fried deer testicle with cocktail sauce… than pork tenderloin.”
  — Cal (45:26)

• Christmas Movie Banter
  “If Mariah Carey’s on there, I will shove you to the floor.”
  — Cal (33:27)

• Tattoo Regret
  “It’s not a bad tattoo, but it’s not a great tattoo if you’ve never seen one.”
  — Spencer (68:39)

• Guest Acclaim
  “How did you find this guest? This is the best guest ever.”
  — Cal (63:53)

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Conclusion

Episode takeaway:
This special holiday episode blends practical hunting and cooking wisdom, fun seasonal banter, and deep ecological insights. It myth-busts common deer tracking lore, offers hacks for home taxidermy, celebrates real Christmas trees, and shines a light on the surprising ways conifers have shaped American history. The crew’s camaraderie and irreverence remain at the heart of the show, making it as educational as it is entertaining—whether you’re a die-hard hunter or simply love the rhythm of the outdoor seasons.

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Holiday Meal Talk – 02:52–09:30
• Deer Track Mythbusting w/ Matt Ross – 09:30–19:16
• Hot Tip-Off (European Mounts) – 19:21–24:46
• Listener Q&A (holiday banter, movies, Christmas trees) – 28:34–36:33
• Meat Pole Survey Game – 36:33–45:19
• Interview: Trent Pressler, “Evergreen” – 49:11–64:16
• Tattoos I Regret – 66:24–71:02
• Listener Q&A & Closing Banter – 71:07–79:02

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If you’re looking for tips, laughs, or a deeper appreciation of how the outdoor world shapes our culture, you’ll find something to love in this episode.

Transcript

[Spencer]

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[Cal]

Smell us now lady. Welcome to meat eater trivia meat eater podcast.

[Spencer]

Welcome to Meat Eater radio live. It's 11am Mountain Time. That's 9am for our friends in North Pole Alaska on Thursday, December 18th and we're live from Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman. I'm your host, Spencer, joined today by Corey and Cal. On today's show, we'll interview deer biologist Matt Ross about identifying buck tracks. Then we have a hot tip off about European mounts, followed by a game of meat poll where we'll find out how much Corey and Cal know about their fellow outdoorsmen. After that, we'll talk to Trent Pressler about the history of Christmas trees. And finally, we'll look at some regrettable outdoor tattoos. Corey and Cal, we are a week away from Christmas. I'm sure you have some big, fancy meal plans already in the works. What are we going to be eating Christmas day? Cal?

[Cal]

I have. Well, it's probably not going to be Christmas day, but Christmas Eve. Like a nice standing antelope rib roast.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Cal]

That I cut special for the occasion.

[Spencer]

How many folks you feeding with that?

[Cal]

You know, it's an antelope, so it'll be like an appetizer type of deal, you know? But yeah, it'll be like, I think it's a six rib rack. And then so I have two of those, and then I kind of bind them together and make a circle.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Cal]

And, you know, I struggle with making things fancy and too fancy because I don't. I don't want it to be like some super fancy thing.

[Spencer]

Okay. More approachable if you're leaving ribs in it that already, like, elevates it. Yeah, I think.

[Cal]

Yeah, it'll be good. I make, like, little hats on there or anything.

[Spencer]

Yeah, sure.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

How are you going to make it.

[Cal]

Just medium rare, man? Like. Yeah, put it on the pellet grill figures itself out. Yeah. You just don't. Do not overcook that stuff. And it looks real pretty.

[Spencer]

So, Corey, what are we serving at the Culkins household this Christmas?

[Corey]

Man? We typically do a fondue Christmas night.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Corey]

So probably some.

[Cal]

Do you need cheese or oil?

[Corey]

Cheese.

[Cal]

Cheese, yeah.

[Corey]

Go to Costco, get some fancy cheeses, and then just do all the sides. Probably do some wild game sausage, some fruits and breads. Probably do some little steak bites in there, at least for myself.

[Matt Ross]

Okay.

[Corey]

But probably start the day with some black bear biscuits and gravy. I'm thinking a little white gravy in the morning. Just thinking maybe just two meals on Christmas. One in the morning.

[Cal]

With your son there. What time does Christmas kick off?

[Corey]

He gets pretty antsy and wakes up a little extra early morning.

[Spencer]

Good.

[Corey]

He earned it big time.

[Spencer]

Was he naughty or nice this year?

[Corey]

So he was.

[Cal]

Keep in mind, I did an impartial audit because When I was at the ONX event, I spoke with your next door neighbor.

[Corey]

Oh, oh, I heard.

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Down in Colorado.

[Cal]

Yep.

[Corey]

He was definitely on the fence this year. But we, we jumped in and did the Elf on the Shelf, which has helped us out a lot because the elf of course moves around throughout the. Throughout the house. Every morning he's in a new spot and he's going to report to Santa like double time. Santa's always listening. But the Elf on the shelf like really digs deep and like 007 style reports back to Santa.

[Phil]

So.

[Corey]

So ever since Elf on the Shelf, he's kind of picked it up. So we'll see. He's got a week to go. I hope he makes it on the nice list. I got a big bag of Kingsford charcoal if things stay the same. But I think he'll make it.

[Cal]

He just introduced that Big brother culture early on.

[Corey]

Yep.

[Cal]

Little eye in the sky.

[Spencer]

Uh huh. Corey is wearing a nice black eye today that Marshall did play a role in.

[Corey]

He was there.

[Spencer]

We're not going to address that today. Besides right now you can get the story of Corey's battle wound on next week's episode.

[Corey]

It's not that obvious.

[Spencer]

Meat eater radio A little bit. Yeah. I am going to deep fry my first turkey this Christmas. A hen that I killed in Idaho. You boys have any advice besides, you know, doing it frozen in the kitchen?

[Corey]

Yeah, exactly. Wet.

[Cal]

Did you brine it?

[Spencer]

I have not yet. It is. I just got it out of the freezer this morning. It's going to get into a brine. I think on Monday will be the plan.

[Cal]

Cool. I would in your. Your run of show.

[Phil]

Right.

[Cal]

Which is always a nice thing to just write out ahead of time. I would budget in 12 hours of air circulation in the refrigerator drying out.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Post brine.

[Spencer]

Yeah.

[Corey]

I would sink in that. Make sure it's nice and dry.

[Cal]

Yeah. And you can like, you know, like load. I hate waste and paper towels. But you can like load up the cavity with paper towels and do a couple of swaps there. That'll help. But like getting, getting that skin. Getting everything like dry sure is a. Is a great. That's is. It's skin on. Right.

[Spencer]

You know, pluck the whole thing. It's a hand. It's probably like, I don't know, 12 or 13 pounds. I haven't weighed it yet, but it should be good.

[Cal]

So did you go all the way out to the wing tips?

[Spencer]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Cal]

That's the whole Asperger for presentation. It really does make a difference yeah, it's not that hard. Yeah, Good for you.

[Spencer]

That's very, very excited. I've got a five course meal plan that's going to be the fifth and final course. It's going to be the climax of the whole meal, so.

[Cal]

Nice.

[Spencer]

A lot of pressure.

[Corey]

Do you need a turkey fryer?

[Spencer]

I got one. Okay. I have one of those ready to go. Normally, this time of year you can use just like your porch as a refrigerator, but it's been so damn warm lately because, you know, the fridge gets so full on Christmas. I don't think it's even cold enough outside to keep your beers cold.

[Cal]

Are you doing, like a soup course?

[Spencer]

We've got a soup course. I've got an antelope squash sausage. That. That'll come right before the turkey, I think. Before that I've got.

[Trent Pressler]

What is it?

[Spencer]

Some Mac and cheese. Before that it's some roasted carrots. Before that we've got a winter salad.

[Cal]

Five courses and dessert course, obviously.

[Spencer]

Well, if you count that, six courses. I'm still trying to learn how to bake, so I'm gonna whip up some cookies that morning. That'll be the. The sixth and final course.

[Cal]

Nice.

[Spencer]

Very excited.

[Cal]

Yeah, Very cool, man. Christmas Eve, who are you putting this show on for?

[Spencer]

My wife, a couple friends, sister in law. So we got, I think, six people.

[Cal]

Great. Very manageable.

[Spencer]

That's right. We can. We can do it. It'll be a team effort, though. All right.

[Cal]

Establish that ahead of time, too.

[Spencer]

Let's get on with the show. Joining us on the line first is Matt Ross, the senior director of conservation for the National Deer Association. He's going to tell us about what's fact and what's fiction when it comes to identifying buck tracks. Matt, welcome to the show.

[Matt Ross]

Hey, guys.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Hey, man.

[Matt Ross]

I feel very underdressed, at least inappropriately dressed. You guys look great.

[Cal]

Oh, we like that first light gear there, buddy. Well worn.

[Spencer]

Yeah. You were dressed like a deer biologist. We are dressed like dummy podcast Christmas, fellas. All right, I want to start off talking about dew claws. Explain what they are and what purpose they serve.

[Matt Ross]

Dew claws are their digits. They're like extra digits. You know, Dew claws are on deer anyway. We're talking about. Deer are vestigial. They're like a remnant digit a little bit up from the actual hoof. But all mammals, or most mammals and birds and. And other animals actually have dew claws. Think of your pets. If you got a dog, cat, they have those little extra digits up the back from their pad, their normal pad. Even some bird Species like raptors, owls, eagles, hawks, they have that extra claw. For most animals that actually have dew claws, they don't really serve a purpose, except for for raptors, of course. They're, they're using them to catch fish and tear fish and other other prey animals. But on deer itself, they're those extra digits. They have a, a karatness or like, you know, kind of a hoof material on them, and they're behind the actual hoof and a little bit, a little bit up from that. But they're vestigial. They're not used to deer have a couple of remnant things on them. If you've ever killed a deer with upper canines, those are, you know, an evolutionary throwback. That's what dew claws are. They're part of the animal family that has an even number of toes. You know, all of the cervids, so deer, elk and other species, moose. And instead of two hooves, they used to have four. Now they, they only use two of them.

[Spencer]

Now, most hunters would tell you that you can identify a buck track by the dew claw indentations. Is that true?

[Matt Ross]

That is not true. Both bucks and does actually have dew claws. So it's not sex specific. So if you're saying just because dew claws are present in the track, it must be a buck, that could be a buck, but it's not a definitive thing. Both sexes have them.

[Spencer]

Now, another common bit of wisdom deer hunters will tell you is that buck hooves spread the furthest apart. So if you see a track that is shaped like a heart, where there's a lot of space between the pads, then that's a buck. Is that true?

[Matt Ross]

That is also probably not as reliable of a, of a thing to use. Most deer might spread their hooves apart based on their weight. And so you could have a, a big female or a big male buck or doe that, that could spread their toes apart. It also could be based on their gait and how quickly they're moving or the material that they're stepping down on. So if it's, you know, soft mud, their toes might spread apart. So generally, the soft mud, everybody's a buck. Yeah. Generally, the heavier the deer, the likelihood of those, those hooves spreading apart will happen. But just because it's doing it, I wouldn't say it's a reliable estimator.

[Spencer]

I've also heard it said that hooves can be like fingerprints where some deer will produce unique tracks that you can identify them by. Is that true?

[Matt Ross]

Yeah, that could be true. I think the likelihood is low. I mean, most deer hooves look the same. So most tracks look the same. But I mean, I've seen and killed deer that had unique characteristics in their hooves. Never gone back to go look to see if I could find that track. And I've never used a track. If you. Maybe you guys have to track a deer, but, you know, they, they mess up their hooves. Their material that grows constantly, but they can chip pieces off or parts of it might if they're disease, like with epizootic hemorrhagic disease or ehd, their. Their hooves can crack. So that is true. Have you guys either ever experienced that?

[Spencer]

I don't know that I've seen a unique track where I'm like, that is a weird walking buck, you guys.

[Cal]

I feel like I've read about it, sure. But I've never. Not firsthand, no.

[Spencer]

Corey, anything with elk, deer.

[Corey]

The buck I killed this year, actually, I knew he had a limp, at least from the landowner told me, like, look, for a buck, that's got a pretty obvious limp and old. And his, his hooves were extremely large and elongated. So just in a normal track, I could tell that at least guessed that that was him.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

You knew his fingerprint.

[Phil]

Yeah, but it was.

[Cal]

That's just being big, though, right?

[Corey]

My thought went to old, like really old, nasty hooves. They were indented, almost hollow inside.

[Cal]

I feel like there's like an old outdoor life story of like a bull that has, like, it's missing the front part of its. Of one of its toes there, you know, and it's like that's, that's how.

[Spencer]

It'S got to be really unique.

[Phil]

Right.

[Spencer]

The last bit of tracking wisdom I've heard is that buck tracks are just simply bigger than doe tracks. Please tell us that's at least true.

[Matt Ross]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, bucks generally are bigger than. Than does. And so if you're looking at tracks, the largest ones would likely be a buck just because they're. They're bigger animals that. That from a sexual dimorphism. But there's a lot of overlap there as you're showing on the screen. You know, being able to. To take somebody to a individual track and say definitively, this is absolutely a buck. You know, there's only a small percentage, it's 5, 10% of. Of all tracks that would be on that right end of the scale there, where you could say, well, that's likely a buck, but there's a lot of overlap. I mean, just because it's got big tracks doesn't necessarily mean it's. It's a buck. And if you're interested in antlers, you know, there's a lot of probably large antler deer walking around for bucks that have medium to small size hooves. So you, you may be able to sec, you know, segregate bucks out a slight a bit. But there is a ton of overlap as that graphic shows.

[Spencer]

And how big of tracks are we talking? If we want to be sure that we're looking at a buck track, what size does it need to approach to be like, okay, that, that is a mature buck?

[Matt Ross]

Well, you're looking at that graphic right there. You know, at least in that study that was from Georgia, you know, the tracks that are more than 4 inches in length, at least down there, it would change geographically. So, you know, I live in upstate New York and the foothills of the Adirondacks. Deer here are much larger than they are in Georgia as where you guys are in Montana. So, you know, a deer track that's probably four and a half, five inches in length and overall three to three and a half inches wide or wider is going to be a large deer. And then you'd be looking at probably some, if not most of those being bucks.

[Spencer]

And I think I remember Matt from that study, it saying like the top 10% of the biggest tracks you see, those likely belong to a buck. Is that, is that correct?

[Matt Ross]

Yeah, that study that you just showed was from Georgia. From the mid or early 2000s, they had about 150 deer that were hunter harvested and they measured the tracks off of all of them. About 100 of the deer were bucks, and I think it was 8% were you were able to definitively say of the 150 something deer were bucks just based on the length or the width.

[Spencer]

Okay, so simply put, dew claws don't mean much. The amount of space between the pads of the hooves doesn't mean anything. But the very biggest tracks in the woods likely belong to bucks. Is there anything else hunters can learn by looking at deer tracks?

[Matt Ross]

Oh, heck yeah. There's a lot you can get out of tracks. Freshness of the sign. Right. I think that's probably one of the most undervalued types of sign we concentrate on, like sign post behavior, scrapes, rubs, those kinds of things, at least for whitetails. And I think a lot of people overlook the freshness of the track and the preponderance of lots of tracks in an area just to have a lot of deer activity, whether they're feeding there or they're spending a lot of time. So freshness, the direction the Deer are headed and that travel might give you an indication of what their needs are, where they're going and coming from and then just it could potentially point you in directions of other sign that will help you get on deer. You know, tracks are important, but looking for feeding sign or some of those other things I just mentioned and certainly up in, at least in the New England and Great Lakes states, there are a lot of successful people that use tracks to, you know, hunt down and kill a deer just based on following them in the snow. And I'm not one of those people that are successful at tracking only, but certainly that could, that can get you on deer too if you're in the right environment. So lots of things that we can get out of tracks, not necessarily sec. Segregating whether or not they're bucks or does.

[Cal]

And if you come across like a deer with, with the big red nose, is that like what's the etiquette there? Is that a shoot don't shoot scenario for you and the good folks at NDA? Have you covered that one yet?

[Matt Ross]

I think, I think that one's off limits for all people.

[Cal]

Okay.

[Matt Ross]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Okay.

[Spencer]

Good to know. Thank you for educating us, man. Thanks for joining us.

[Matt Ross]

You got it. Merry Christmas, guys.

[Cal]

Hey, Merry Christmas. Thank you.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

All right, our next segment is Hot tip off. H O T T I P R let's all do a hot tip. H O T T I P R let's all do a hot tip off. Hot Tip off is where two listeners go head to head with competing pieces of advice. And after we hear each tip, we'll declare which one is hotter. If you have a hot tip, take a one minute video on your phone and send it to radiothemeder.com with the subject line Hot tip off. This week It's Jack Anderson versus Luke Long and they're competing for a 100 meat eater gift card. Take it away, Phil. Luke Long.

[Luke Long]

Hey guys, my name is Luke Long. I've got a hot tip for you today. If you're like me, you like to hang the European mounts from the bucks you kill on your man cave wall or wherever it may be. And I've got an easy way to do that for you. You go to Walmart, you can get these two and a half inch metal brackets like four for five bucks. And you take one of these brackets and you're going to bend it at one of these holes. So I take a pair of vice grips here and give it a little bend about like that. You can adjust the angle. May need to go A little further on this one. And I'm going to show you now on the wall how it works.

[Phil]

All right?

[Luke Long]

So here you can see I've got one mounted on the wall. I paint them black so they don't show up as much, but you're gonna push that bracket right into that brain cavity and your deer is going to hang there just perfect. You can also hang antelope on them as well. I'm sure quite a few other animals maybe you'll deer work. Jackalop, antelope. Got that one crooked, but there you go. I've got a lot of them and they work really good.

[Cal]

God, he had to borrow a lot of deer to make this big.

[Spencer]

Jack Anderson, good hunter.

[Jack Anderson]

Jack from Minnesota here coming at you with a hot tip off for skull cleaning. Ditch the turkey burner. Get yourself a thermostat controlled water heater. Keep your temp between 90 and 110 degrees. A process called maceration will happen. The bacteria in that temp range is going to just eat the meat off of the skull. You're not going to have to do any high pressure water blasting. It's pretty much all just going to fall off. Change this water every two to three days until all of the meat is off of the skull. Do the same process with dawn dish soap and water to degrease it, whiten it with peroxide, and you're gonna yield some taxidermy level skull cleaning at home. Your nose bones are gonna be there, your nasal cavity is gonna be there. Hands off, hands free. Your dog's gonna love the smell of it. Give it a shot.

[Spencer]

All right, Phil is going to put up a poll for the chat to vote on. The chat is going to decide who gets that $100 meat eater gift card between Luke Long and Jack Anderson. And we're going to discuss which one we like best again. Luke Long had the manipulated metal brackets for European mounts. Jack Anderson had the thermostat controlled water heater for European mounts. Corey, which one do you like better? Which one would get your vote?

[Corey]

Man, both just fantastic. Liquid hot magma tips here. But I think I'd have to go with Jax. I'm going to have to try that. I noticed he had his antlers in the water too, which is something I'm.

[Cal]

Always worried about when you're boiling.

[Spencer]

Sure.

[Corey]

To keep those out. I always wrap them in aluminum foil and do like everything I can to keep the antler.

[Spencer]

And he was just using a five gallon bucket, which is, you know, everyone's got a dozen of those laying around.

[Corey]

Yeah, didn't think about that either. So I'm gonna have to try that. So I'd probably have to go with Mr. Anderson.

[Spencer]

Cal, Luke Long or Jack Anderson. Which one?

[Phil]

I agree.

[Cal]

They're both great. I'm gonna go with Luke, though. I don't know. There's just something you do save money with. Both for sure. But you also have to invest a little bit more with Jax.

[Phil]

True.

[Cal]

So I don't know. I like. I like the simplicity. I think of folks who aren't mechanically skilled, like, even they can knock out Luke's hack. That's great.

[Spencer]

Phil, do we have some votes happening?

[Phil]

We do have some votes. They're still coming. We'll give them another 30 seconds. I started kind of late, so we.

[Spencer]

Have one versus one in the room here. I really like both of these. Luke's. The manipulated metal brackets. That's great because that's like, the exact shape I want for a European mount. Like, it put the skull right in the perfect position. How I think you want to display ahead, it is saving you a couple of dollars. I think he said a four pack is five bucks, but I'm going to vote for Jack Anderson's. That's just like. It's taking a really sucky choreography and making it much less sucky by doing the. The thermostat controlled water heater for euros. That's something you can, you know, walk away from. It's like a crock pot version.

[Cal]

I think that's where things go wrong with my friends. Just walking away part, it's like change the water every two to three days. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's been back there a long time.

[Phil]

Our producer Jake, just. Just let me know that he bought one of those heaters on Jack's recommendation on Amazon, and it was $30.

[Spencer]

$30. That's what it cost to, like, fill a propane tank that you'd go through, you know, doing a European mount on a turkey cooker.

[Luke Long]

And.

[Phil]

And on that topic, with 62% of the vote, the winner is Jack the Heater.

[Spencer]

Jack Anderson. He's got a good head of hair on him. He's now going to get a 100 meat eater gift card as well. Good for you, Jack. Send your hot tip offs to radio atthe meat eater.com and you might show up on a future show of Meat eater radio.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Spencer]

All right, we're about halfway through the show. Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what's Chad have to say?

[Phil]

Chat's mostly talking with Randall who is very active in the chat.

[Spencer]

Hell yeah. Randall. Where is Randall sitting at right now? Somewhere on the live tour. Right.

[Phil]

He is in Nashville, Tennessee. He sent me a picture from the same green room we were hanging out in at Buckfest 2025 for Big Buck Hunter Championship. They're playing in the same venue that that was in. So Randall's a seasoned vet of that building. But we, we've got a few questions. Get some more in. We've got Cal here, we've got Corey here. Speaking of Mogor says let Corey know that he Mog was just saying thank you Corey for helping him with his, his cookbook through customs. Such a kind and helpful guy. I agree Mogor, we love having Corey here.

[Corey]

Oh, glad you got your books.

[Spencer]

Moor took him about a year but that's, that's how long it takes to get a book across the continent.

[Corey]

So really it was actually quite fast.

[Phil]

That's good. Garrett has a question for Cal. Cal, have you why. He says why do guides not like the 7 millimeter REM mag?

[Cal]

We've covered this multiple times so I'm going to do it real quick.

[Phil]

Sure.

[Cal]

When the 7 num num made its appearance, it's, it's the classic thing that we still see today where target loads are. Are the most prolific thing on the market. They shoot great but they don't kill well. And looking back on my experience with, with the, the old backfiring, fire belching boat anchor, I think Is what it was referred to as multiple times. That was the issue. Not the ballistics, not the caliber, but a lack of good ammo on the market. Killing ammo. There you go.

[Phil]

Sweet. Let's see, we've got a question from pain. Poplars, deer jerky on a pellet grill versus a dehydrator. Is this something you guys have experience with both methods?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yep.

[Cal]

If you have a big fancy pants dehydrator, I think that's the way to go for that same kind of set it and forget it type of deal. And it's. It would be like less expensive to. Doesn't. Doesn't take. Not a big drain on the old electric bill.

[Spencer]

Something you can do in your garage or kitchen as well. Versus pellet grill this time of year. I don't care for firing that thing up in December.

[Corey]

Outside.

[Cal]

That's. It's.

[Trent Pressler]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Again, in your. Your run of show when you're cooking, like, you gotta account for that thing warming up. It is a pain. But I do. I do like the pro. Product's still good this time of year. It just takes more time.

[Spencer]

Corey, any thoughts on jerky versus. On the pellet grill versus dehydrator?

[Corey]

I've only used my oven. Convection oven.

[Matt Ross]

Yeah.

[Cal]

I don't know.

[Corey]

It takes that works three, four hours. Makes pretty fine.

[Spencer]

That you look forward to firing up in December.

[Corey]

Yeah, exactly. Kind of need it. Yep.

[Spencer]

What else we got? Phil?

[Phil]

Friday arrows asks best Christmas movie.

[Spencer]

Mm. Phil, you answer that one for us.

[Phil]

Oh, I don't. I love Christmas, but I'm not super passionate about Christmas movies. I love the 1980. Is it 1980? Might be 83. The animated Mickey's a Christmas Carol. It's short and sweet. It's only like 25 minutes long. That was my Christmas Carol. I love it's a Wonderful Life. It's a long movie. I saw on Amazon that they have an abridged version where they cut like an hour out of the movie, which I think is sacrilegious.

[Cal]

That's horrible.

[Phil]

But it is a long movie, you know, and like, as far as modern stuff goes, I mean, elf has kind of become like a classic.

[Spencer]

Yes.

[Phil]

The Home Alone 1 and 2 are also good to put on the background. Yeah. You guys.

[Spencer]

Corey, Cal, Favorite Christmas movie.

[Corey]

I watched Bad Santa 2 the other night. It's not good. It's funny. But that's not the best Christmas movie ever. I would have to say A Christmas Carol.

[Cal]

I think Scrooged with Bill Murray is like a fantastic Christmas movie. My, like, I guess serious Christmas movie would definitely be It's a Wonderful Life. I've always been a sucker for that one. And then a legit, fun, funny new Christmas movie is. Oh, cripes, what's the. The Night Before, I think is what it's called with.

[Phil]

Oh, that's Seth Rogen.

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Joseph is in that movie.

[Cal]

That is a legit.

[Phil]

That one's pretty funny.

[Cal]

That is. That is legit. I like that one a lot.

[Spencer]

Elf would be my favorite Christmas movie. I'm far less passionate about Christmas movies than Christmas music, though. I love Christmas music. I've got Christmas playlists that, you know, gets the. The dust brushed off it in. In Thanksgiving plain.

[Cal]

And if Mariah Carey's on there, I will shove you to the floor.

[Spencer]

Mariah Carey is on there. My favorite Christmas albums. Casey Musgraves, she has a phenomenal Christmas album. Some very good original music on there.

[Corey]

She does nothing wrong.

[Spencer]

Sia. She has a great Christmas album. I. I love Snowman.

[Cal]

We just need to snap.

[Corey]

Michael Buble.

[Spencer]

Michael Buble, he's, you know, he's like the Coca Cola of Christmas music. You have to have Michael.

[Phil]

I saw him in concert with my mother. It was.

[Spencer]

Was it a Christmas concert?

[Phil]

I mean, it was. It was near the holiday season, so I think he played like one or two, but it wasn't. It wasn't specifically Christmas. The Vince Guaraldi jazz record from a Charlie Brown.

[Spencer]

Charlie Brown.

[Phil]

That's the only record I need.

[Spencer]

Yeah, that's like a jazzy, good Christmas music. Randy Travis, I love his Christmas album. Love, love Christmas music. Bill, give us a couple more.

[Phil]

A couple more. Okay, let's see here. Question for Cal from K to K. Clover Danz, are you excited for the new role? Are you going to relocate to Missoula? He's stoked to have you at the helm. Come to Colorado Rendezvous this year.

[Cal]

Wow, thank you. I am super stoked. I'm real, real excited to. Yeah. First. First legit day is January 1st, so really excited. Been onboarding a bunch and working with. With the team already and like, yeah, crazy, crazy good staff.

[Phil]

The.

[Cal]

The mission orientation is. Provides for a different work environment for sure. It's pretty. Pretty cool, passionate folks. Really, really neat. And yeah, I'm not planning on relocating back to Missoula. It's like three of the four horsemen of the apocalypse in Missoula right now. Anyway. Atmospheric river, insanely high winds. They don't need me in the mix right now.

[Phil]

So you would be the fourth in that scenario. Got it.

[Cal]

Exactly.

[Spencer]

I also love the Weezer Christmas album, their rendition of Hark the Herald Angels Sing. It's great stuff. It's perfect.

[Phil]

As a man who loves Weezer, I don't know if I can get on board with that.

[Spencer]

I'll drop some more recommendations throughout the show.

[Phil]

But as far as modern Christmas movies, one more for me, too. There's an animated movie on Netflix called Klaus, which is kind of like a Santa origin story of Jason Schwartzman and J.K. simmons. It's very, very good.

[Cal]

Really?

[Phil]

Yes, it's a great movie.

[Spencer]

I also love the Mannheim Steamroller. I went and saw them last year in Bozeman when they rolled through, but it wasn't the Mannheim Steamroller, which I felt a little betrayed.

[Cal]

It was like the B Squad or something.

[Spencer]

I mean, I think we got, like, lower than that.

[Phil]

All of Those bands like Low JV from the 80s that still tour now are kind of like Ship of Theseus, where it's like, if you just keep replacing all the members, is it even the same band? Any.

[Spencer]

And then, weirdly, they shoehorned in the song Convoy. You familiar with that?

[Cal]

Oh, no.

[Spencer]

They performed that.

[Cal]

That is so weird.

[Spencer]

It was very weird. Very fun. The. The audience was not into it as much as I was.

[Cal]

That's amazing.

[Spencer]

All right, we're gonna move on. Our next segment is Meat Pole. Said show me a meat, boys and take my pole. Welcome to Meat Radio. Oh, I got a game to play.

[Corey]

Oh, give me that beat, boy.

[Spencer]

Meat Pole is a test of how much you know about your fellow hunters and anglers. I surveyed 500 meater listeners about the outdoors. Your job is to predict their answers. There are three questions. Whoever is closest to the correct answer between Cal and Corey gets a point. And whoever gets two points will be the winner. Also, the chat should play along because Phil is going to watch your answers and give a shout out to whoever is closest. And unlike Price is Right, you guys can't cheat. So we know that the winner is. You only win if you're. If you're true of heart. Here's the first question. What percentage of meat eater listeners would rather deer hunt in the morning instead of the afternoon? What percentage of meat eater listeners would pick deer hunting in the morning rather than the afternoon?

[Corey]

Well, we don't call it first light for nothing.

[Spencer]

Not last light. What would you pick, Corey? Deer hunting in the morning or afternoon?

[Corey]

What day of the week? What day of the week are we talking?

[Spencer]

We're gonna say Thursday morning. Okay, Cal, morning or afternoon? Morning. Wow. Two votes for morning. What percentage of meat eater listeners would rather Deer hunt in the morning instead of the afternoon. 500 listeners answered this question.

[Corey]

500.

[Spencer]

I like the afternoon just because there's a definitive end. When I'm in. When I'm out there in the morning, I'm always worried, like, I'm leaving some meat on the bone. Like if I take off at 10am it's all about to happen at 10:15am whereas in the afternoon, it's like, it's done, it's over. I did the whole thing.

[Cal]

I feel like that's somebody who stands in a strap to a tree's perspective. Like, why would you leave?

[Spencer]

Why would you? Well, you got to leave at some point. I don't know.

[Cal]

Well, yeah, when it's dark again.

[Spencer]

That's right. Okay, you boys have your answers?

[Cal]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Go ahead and reveal your answers. Corey says 96% would rather hunt in the morning instead of the afternoon. Cal says 73%. The correct answer is 64.8%. That gives Cal the first point. He was 9 percentage points off.

[Corey]

I forget you're good at this.

[Cal]

You're playing against the man of the people.

[Spencer]

He knows price is right. He knows meat pole.

[Cal]

Well, I got spanked at prices right with Steve. That was surprising to me.

[Spencer]

But now I did my own survey at home. Of the 41 bucks I could recall, 19 were killed in the morning, 22 in the afternoon. That means 54% were afternoon versus 46% in the morning. And I found this interesting. My five biggest whitetails were killed in the afternoon, but my three biggest muleys were killed in the morning. I don't know how to make sense of that.

[Cal]

I have many animals that I located in the morning and killed in the afternoon. Had I not been out there in the morning, sure, I would have had no idea where they were.

[Spencer]

Just hunt both.

[Phil]

We had Mark from southeast Arizona guess.

[Spencer]

65%.2 percentage points off. Well done, Mark from southeast Arizona. All right, here is our second question. Cal has a one point lead. What percentage of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse?

[Cal]

That's a new one.

[Spencer]

What percentage of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse? I have never rode a horse. I was thinking about. I'm reading a book right now called the Horse. That was what made me think of this. I don't think I've even ever touched a horse.

[Cal]

I don't think you're really missing out on anything.

[Spencer]

I'm with you. I was like, well, I made it to 33 years old without touching a horse. I can probably do the rest of my life without that. Have you Ridden a horse, Cory?

[Corey]

Yeah. I grew up with horses, worked with horses. Majority of my life was around horses.

[Spencer]

When's the last time you were on a horse?

[Corey]

It's been a couple years now though.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Corey]

Yeah. Five, six years now.

[Spencer]

Cal, when's the last time you jumped on a horse?

[Cal]

Last fall. I did some.

[Corey]

I can't imagine it's all that high.

[Cal]

Mule riding.

[Spencer]

What percentage of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse? Phil, have you. Have you rode a horse?

[Phil]

I have ridden a horse. Okay, Yes. I don't know if you know this, but Philip means lover of horses.

[Spencer]

I did. I feel like I told you that. You already knew that.

[Phil]

I did know that, but I do not love horses. But I have ridden one.

[Cal]

Yes.

[Corey]

That's horseshit.

[Spencer]

What percentage of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse?

[Corey]

75%. Just in the room.

[Spencer]

Is it true of you, Phil? Do you love horses?

[Phil]

I do not. I don't. I just something about them. Maybe I'm just intimidated by them or I think it's just the smell.

[Cal]

If this wasn't a kids show, I'd tell you exactly.

[Spencer]

I mean, what's wrong with the horses?

[Cal]

Take the romanticism away.

[Spencer]

I don't mind looking at them especially. Like, I know wild horses are all wrong for ecology purposes, but they're quite majestic out there.

[Phil]

They are majestic. I just think in the year 2025, almost 26, I find no use for a horse. Living in my suburban neighborhood, I. Yeah.

[Cal]

I have had many fun adventures that have included those animals.

[Luke Long]

Oh, yeah.

[Cal]

And every one of those adventures also included moments where I was like, I hate these things so much.

[Corey]

They were just a tool for me the last few years.

[Spencer]

Ready with an answer.

[Matt Ross]

Sometimes the.

[Corey]

The tools don't make it out of the woods.

[Cal]

Sometimes the tool tries to kill you.

[Spencer]

And reveal your answers. Corey says 40% of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse. Cal says 30%. The correct answer is 81.8%. Cory was the closest, and he wasn't even halfway to the correct answer. 81.8%. Phil, how'd the chat do?

[Phil]

We had Friday Arrows. Who asked the Christmas movie question? Guess. 84%. That was the closest one I could. I could see. Most people were way under for sure.

[Spencer]

According to a 2018 survey, about 27 million Americans ride a horse each year. That's more horse riders than golfers, tennis players or skiers. Of those 27 million Americans, about 70,000 wind up in an emergency room because of horse related injuries. All right, the third and final questions. It is tied at one to one between Cal and Corey. What percentage of meat eater listeners have eaten deer testicles? What percentage of meat eater listeners have eaten deer testicles? This will determine our winner. Corey, have you.

[Corey]

Yeah, sure have, Cal.

[Spencer]

Have you? Yep, I have as well. We're three for three at the host table. Phil, lover of horses, have you eaten?

[Phil]

We are three for four for the rim. I have not. No.

[Corey]

Three for four for man.

[Spencer]

What percentage of meat eater listeners have eaten deer testicles? Such an easy thing to pack out too. Oh, for sure. They. They got no weight.

[Corey]

Yeah, you're already packing yours out.

[Spencer]

Phil. Excuse me, Cal, how would you tell someone to prepare a deer testicle?

[Cal]

Oh, beat it and fry it. Yeah, yeah, they're great.

[Spencer]

And like a tenderloin in that. Just like, don't let that thing get in the freezer. They're too small. Make it up as an appetizer in this first couple days fresh.

[Cal]

Yep, yep. Yeah. I mean, you can pull that membrane off the outside, but if you just cut the thing in in half and give it a couple of wax with the hammer.

[Spencer]

Totally.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

And leave that membrane. Leave that membrane until you're ready to cook it, though. Like until, you know, the minute you're about to throw that thing in the fry, leave it on right up until then. You boys ready with an answer?

[Corey]

Let's do this.

[Cal]

Yep.

[Spencer]

Go ahead and reveal your answers for the victory. Does that say 26 or 2.6?

[Corey]

26.

[Spencer]

Corey says 26% of our 500 Meat Eater listeners have eaten a deer testicle. Cal says 33%. The correct answer is 9.9%. That makes Corey our winner of meat pool today.

[Cal]

We've been talking about this stuff for so long, I figured the adaptation rate would be a little higher.

[Spencer]

I think we just convinced some folks, if not my little flavor text here will do that. Deer testicles are a superfood. A three ounce serving has 110 calories, 4 grams of fat, and 18 grams of protein. Nutritionally, that makes them similar to sardines and pork tenderloin. For tips on cooking them, go watch Steve's video called how to cook venison testicles On Meat Eaters YouTube.

[Cal]

Channel it.

[Phil]

Ryan Beatty, 21 guess 10%.

[Spencer]

Wow point one percentage points off. Well done, Ryan.

[Cal]

I would rather have a fried deer testicle with cocktail sauce, like legit cocktail sauce, than pork tenderloin.

[Spencer]

Yeah, you know what? I think I would say the same. It's very close. But I would say of all the organs, that's my favorite is a deer testicle. I take that above a heart above a liver. Anything else in the gut pile I.

[Cal]

Used to make every year. I haven't done it in years because now I just get frustrated and throw the hearts in the grinder in the grind pile, which is a fine use of them. But I used to make these Caprese sandwiches with deer heart or Elkhart because the bite, the consistency of that muscle is so perfect for sandwiches. Like it's there, sure, but you're going to be able to to bite through it and that is a like, it's pretty. It's pretty special when the garden's all fresh.

[Spencer]

We asked this question. A couple years from now it's going to be double that.

[Corey]

I hope so.

[Spencer]

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold butter. Yep. Chocolate ice cream.

[Trent Pressler]

Sure thing.

[Spencer]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Spencer]

All right. Joining us on the line last is Cornell University Professor Trent Pressler. His new book, Evergreen, is about America's relationship with conifers. Trent, welcome to the show.

[Trent Pressler]

Hey, thanks for having me, guys.

[Spencer]

We will get to Christmas trees in just a second. First, I want to talk about some of the other things your book covers. You say that evergreen trees have started wars. Tell us about that.

[Trent Pressler]

Oh, yeah, the American Revolutionary War actually started with the pine tree riot, which I think most people find shocking because we're taught in fifth grade that it started with the Boston Tea Party, right? But by the 15th century, the Brits had cut down every single tree in all of their islands in the British Isles. You go to Britain today, England. You drive around the countryside, you think these are nice sheep's meadows full of grass. But historically, they were covered in trees. And they used wood to build their battleships. And they were desperate for tall, straight pine trees to make the masts on their ships for the Royal Navy. And they had been blocked by other nations from cutting trees in the Pyrenees, the Alps and the Baltic states. So they sent the pilgrims to America to cut down trees. And eventually the crown said they told all the colonists, we own all the big trees. Any tree over 24 inches wide belongs to the monarchy, for the Royal Navy. So you even see, boy, that riles a guy up, right? So the colonists got pretty mad. They started cutting down all the pine trees that were 23 inches wide in defiance of the law, right? And so you see today, even in a lot of colonial homes in northeastern US wide pine plank flooring that's 23 inches wide, which is from that era of rebellion. But anyway, long story short, the king sends his surveyors over to mark the trees that they own. And this poor guy was having a beer in the Ware Tavern, the Pine Tree Tavern in Ware, New Hampshire. When this angry lumberjack named Ebenezer Mudgett stormed in with his crew, they had painted their faces black with soot. They, they held the king surveyors up by their feet and whipped them furiously with pine branches and sent them out of town on the back of a horse. So that was really the start of the American Revolutionary War, and it predated the Boston Tea Party by exactly one year.

[Spencer]

Amazing. That's a great bit of American history.

[Cal]

Wonderful.

[Spencer]

In chapter nine, you talk about the relationship between whaling and evergreen trees. How were those two conn. Connected?

[Trent Pressler]

Yeah, absolutely. So as we hunted whales to near extinction in the 1800s, we were using them primarily their blubber for, for lighting oil. It was, we burned it for everything. People lit their homes with whale oil candles and whale oil lanterns. And as the whale populations diminished so sharply that the price of whale oil skyrocketed, where it was in like 1850 money, it was like 38 bucks a gallon, which, which is like outrageous, like several hundred dollars for a gallon of whale oil. So there was a desperate search on to find a more affordable burning fuel. And we settled on something called Camphine, which was a blend of turpentine and a few other solvents. But turpentine is one of the world's most flammable substances and it exists in evergreen conifers. So that thus began this huge effort to tap pine trees from North Carolina all the way through Texas to tap the turpentine and the SAP and the resin so that we could have a burning fuel. And ironically, it actually saved the whales from extinction because it released the pressure on hunting them so much.

[Spencer]

Wow. Love, love this evergreen history. Later you write about how in the 19th century, being a lumberjack was the most lethal profession in America. One stat showed that over a 40 year career, lumberjacks had a 50, 50 chance of dying on the job. What was it about that era that made this so dangerous?

[Trent Pressler]

Well, it's hard to fathom how men in that era cut down trees that big. You see these archival photos of the lumberjacks kind of leaning up against a sequoia tree or a redwood tree that might be 30ft wide at the base. And if you're, you know, it's hard to picture it now, but America was covered in old growth trees, trees that were between 500 and 3,000 years old. And the only tools that they had at the time were these rudimentary tools. There was a double bladed ax and a what they called a misery whip, which was a long saw that was between 15 and 20ft long that two men would hold on either end and, like, kind of push and pull like this. Right. So you think about it. You have no mechanical equipment. You have a saw and an ax, and you're with a group of guys. You know, you all probably have rotten feet and. And sore and rotten teeth and syphilis, and you're miserable. It's like 1850.

[Spencer]

Right.

[Trent Pressler]

And you're like, let's cut down this tree that's 300ft tall and weighs as much as six humpback whales. So the majority of those deaths happen simply by being crushed underneath of fallen trees and branches. It was shocking.

[Spencer]

Yeah. You and I both grew up in South Dakota, so when you cover the Green Glacier in the book, that hit close to home. Explain to folks what the green Glacier is and why it's a problem.

[Trent Pressler]

So the green Glacier is this menacing advance of millions and millions of cedar trees that are taking over the Great Plains. And it is an ecological crisis of epic proportions that I wish more people would pay attention to. Let me just back up for a second. The cedars I'm talking about are the eastern red cedar, otherwise known as Juniperus virginiana. They're native to the U.S. they're not invasive. They're actually native here. They grow in all 50 states. They're incredibly resilient and adaptive. So for about 10,000 years, they were kept in check. In places like South Dakota, they only grew in river valleys and ravine bottoms. And they were kept in check by two things. The first were indigenous peoples. Native Americans had controlled burning practices, so they would occasionally light fire to the prairie, which would suppress the advance of woody tree saplings. The second was the presence of billions and billions of bison. So there's a lot of research that shows that land where bison were present, where they grazed and they trampled, they kept the emergence of woody tree saplings at bay, which allowed the world's greatest grassland ecosystem to thrive. Here in the central part of the United States, it's still the world's largest remaining intact grassland, but it's in grave danger right now because without indigenous fire practices and without billions of bison roaming the plains, now the cedars are taking over. They're creeping up out of the river valleys, and they're spreading across millions of square miles of the prairie states. And I've talked to cattle ranchers, even that are going to have to close up shop because they're losing prime grazing land to the trees.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Where I grew up in eastern South Dakota, the cattle ranchers there, public enemy number one was the red cedar. It was not coyotes. It was not Canadian thistle. It was the red cedar. Just because they would take over and choke out entire pastures that were otherwise, you know, very productive places to graze.

[Cal]

And you got that neighbor next year who is not into agriculture. They just want to be out there for their deer season. And they like the trees because it gives the deer something to hide behind. Like, come on, Come on. North American Grasslands Conservation Act. That is one tool that if we get that sucker off the ground running, would provide some, some additional tools to knock back the, the cedar encroachment. I love that you bring this up.

[Trent Pressler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cal]

Grasslands are very important to us in the hunting angling space.

[Spencer]

All right, let's talk about Christmas trees. To write this book, you spent a lot of time on Christmas tree farms. That is a type of farm I've never been around. What is the average Christmas tree growing operation like?

[Trent Pressler]

Yeah. So they're out of public eye for 11 months of the year. Right. But they're mostly small family farms. The average age of a Christmas tree farmer is 65, which is a problem for the industry because people are aging out and not replacing themselves. The average salary and income actually is actually quite low at about $25,000. So most of these farmers have off farm income or day jobs. But one of the great benefits of Christmas tree farms is that they're growing a great, highly valuable economic product on marginal land. So this is land often that is rocky or on steep slopes where you can, you can't grow corn or you can't install irrigation. So what can you grow there? You can grow Christmas trees. And often those farms also are doing a whole lot of work at just preserving open space and keeping the, you know, suburban sprawl from getting every single square inch of our wild habitat. Yeah.

[Spencer]

And in 1985, Americans bought 33 million fresh cut Christmas trees. In 2023, that number was just 12 million. That's a 21 million decline. What happened, Trent?

[Trent Pressler]

Yeah, the Christmas tree industry has contracted by about 85% in the last half century. And there's a couple factors. The first is the pernicious rise of artificial fake plastic Christmas trees, which has. Which all are made in China, 100% in plastics factories subsidized by their government.

[Cal]

I'm getting the feeling you don't like them.

[Trent Pressler]

You think like, I don't know, read my book. I make no bones about how I really feel about, about Christmas trees. But, you know, so the, the plastic Christmas tree business. Now, last year, those imports were over $2 billion with another $4 billion in just plastic Christmas ornaments and lights and everything else. So that's one thing that has really affected the natural Christmas tree farm industry. And by the way, today, the entire national stockpile of Christmas tree farms could fit within, roughly within the city limits of Los Angeles or New York City.

[Spencer]

Wow.

[Trent Pressler]

There's only. There's only. Yeah, there's only 3,000 farmers left growing Christmas trees. It's a dying business. But the other thing that happened along the way is that trees became much harder to grow in a climate that's changing quite rapidly. So we've seen like the heat dome that was in Oregon a couple summers ago where it was 100 degrees for a week. It killed tens of millions of young saplings. In Christmas tree farms, we're also seeing extended periods of drought. You're probably familiar since you're deer hunters, you've seen the extensive beetle kill damage in the western US with just millions of acres of pine trees standing dead, because the beetles would normally be killed in a really tough, cold winter. But with a mild winter, they're surviving in great numbers and attacking evergreen trees in the spring, and they're just not able to recover. So I've spoken to a lot of Christmas tree farmers around the country where they just lose the seedlings to disease or drought or heat and they can't afford to replace them. And it's a slow moving disaster. Because if I might add one more point, if you think the heat dome that killed millions of seedlings three years ago, we won't see the impact of that in the Marketplace for another seven years, because the trees grow eight or 10 years before they're big enough to cut them down.

[Spencer]

Now, you interviewed the man who hunts down America's most famous tree, the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree. Tell us about how that tree is selected.

[Trent Pressler]

Yeah, Eric Pouts. He's got one of the most fascinating jobs in the world. I think he's been in this position for 30 years as the head gardener for Rockefeller center. And he drives around the northeast in his Ford truck and he's kind of just scoping out trees constantly. And he keeps notes and note cards and notepads of where he sees trees. And then sometimes he will literally just walk up to a door of a house and knock on the door and say, hello, I'm the guy from Rockefeller Center. Can we cut down your tree? You know, and some people slam the door and they think this is an axe murderer. This is weird. And then some people are like, really? Are you that guy? And you know he has an ID and some stuff. He shows them to prove that he's legit. But he's got a backlist of many trees in his mind, so he's already pretty much picked the tree for the next, like, five years. And then he kind of circles back to monitor them, make sure they're healthy, they're getting water and nutrients. But anyway, once they pick the tree, they get the approval of the owner. They'll make a nice plaque to install. They'll come on cutting day, they wrap all the branches very carefully and then put it on a giant flatbed truck and haul it into New York City.

[Spencer]

Amazing stuff. Last question. If we're just strictly looking at this from a conservation standpoint, is it better to get a real Christmas tree every year or. Or use a fake one?

[Trent Pressler]

Always buy a real tree. I will say this from the. I will shout this from the top of every mountain. The world doesn't need more plastic. Okay. And artificial trees, there's a myth that, oh, they last forever. Let me get a fake tree. But a lot of research shows that, in fact, artificial Christmas trees are similar to Ikea furniture and that they. People usually throw them away after seven years. After seven years, you know, you, like, you want the next tree that's got different lights or the revolving bass or Bluetooth speaker, or now there's even. There's even fake Christmas trees that come with an artificial pine scent embedded in them. And, you know, also every time you buy an artificial tree and let's say you do use it for seven years before you throw it in the landfill, that during those seven years, that means seven years of real trees that are not being purchased from small family farmers. And then you also have to think of just the farms themselves where the trees are grown. They're providing wildlife habitat for. For grazers, birds, insects, the mammals that we all like to hunt and fish. You know, like these. These are part of our ecosystem and our living environment. And yes, we cut it down, but all those farms, they plant another one right in the place where they cut the other one down. So it's the most renewable resource we've got.

[Spencer]

Good stuff.

[Cal]

Love it.

[Spencer]

Don't need to twist our arm about having a real treat.

[Cal]

How did you find this guest? This is the best guest ever.

[Spencer]

Oh, what a compliment. Trent, we've done a year and a half of episodes, and Cal has declared you to be the best guest. Well, fell us out the codings. We stick together.

[Trent Pressler]

I'm honored.

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer]

Trent's new book, Evergreen, is available right now wherever Books are sold. It's a fun read for folks who spend a lot of time outside. Trent, thanks for joining us.

[Cal]

Thank you so much.

[Trent Pressler]

My pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. Merry Christmas.

[Spencer]

Do you have a Christmas tree up at home right now?

[Cal]

No, I don't.

[Spencer]

No.

[Cal]

No, no.

[Spencer]

How about last year? Did you have one last year?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

The year before that?

[Cal]

No.

[Spencer]

Okay. Every other year rotation you're on.

[Cal]

It's just like the travel sure. Schedule and trying to keep take care of something. And if I'm being honest, the dead tree is still hanging around. Oh, no way. In your backyard, tucked over on the.

[Luke Long]

Side of the house.

[Spencer]

It's good habitat for some birds and voles and mice.

[Phil]

It is. Yeah.

[Spencer]

Good, good.

[Cal]

Doesn't bother me, but boy, I just do not think much of people with fake trees now.

[Spencer]

Sure, yeah, yeah. Ruining the planet.

[Cal]

Oh, right up there with those scented trash bags for me.

[Corey]

Yeah, that smell out of the mountains.

[Spencer]

To get our tree. Corey, you. You sometimes do that. This year you bought one out of parking lot though, right?

[Corey]

No, no, we got a fake tree.

[Spencer]

Oh, fake tree. What a loser.

[Cal]

But they walk among us.

[Corey]

Yeah. Sitting right next to you, Bill, how about you?

[Spencer]

What's the tree situation?

[Phil]

We've got a real tree. We just go to a nursery. So we're not. We're not out there getting. Getting our boots dirty.

[Spencer]

But.

[Phil]

But it's. It's real. Yeah.

[Corey]

There's things that I just don't argue.

[Trent Pressler]

With my wife about.

[Spencer]

There you go. Now you tell her to watch this. I'm going to change her mind.

[Corey]

Definitely. We're going to read that book.

[Cal]

I would, I'd go like this route. I'd be like, you know, it's interesting that you're so invested in raising this child.

[Phil]

Right.

[Cal]

You know, that that's. That's pretty neat that you think this is worth worthwhile. Yeah. But some things aren't.

[Spencer]

There's not going to be any planet around for Marshall when he gets your guys on the trees in the land.

[Corey]

Trust me. The like late November deer hunting. I'm looking at Christmas trees.

[Spencer]

Trees.

[Corey]

I wish I could. Yeah, but again, 20, 26 worth it maybe.

[Spencer]

So that's why Corey has that black eye. All right, our last segment is tattoos I regret. Hello, darkness, my old friend.

[Trent Pressler]

I've looked at my tattoo again. It really seemed like such a. A good idea when I was drunk last summer in the Pisa.

[Spencer]

The tattoo says, a puss in the pot will always find more beans.

[Trent Pressler]

What the does that mean it's a tattoo?

[Spencer]

I regret we do this Segment only to hear that. That beautiful song.

[Cal]

It's wonderful, wonderful stuff.

[Phil]

Thank you.

[Spencer]

We have two tattoos today. Cal and Corey are going to describe what they look like for the listening audience. But if you want to see them for yourself and you do, then head over to the Meat Eater podcast YouTube channel to watch this episode. All right, Phil, show us that very first tattoo.

[Phil]

Is this the. Sorry, the deer one?

[Spencer]

Yeah, you got it right there. What. What does that look like? California? Describe for our listening audience what you're seeing.

[Cal]

Say, real tight, racked white tail.

[Corey]

I think it's sitting on top of a knee. Is that a leg?

[Spencer]

I think that's shoulder. That's like. Yeah, his shoulder, upper arm.

[Cal]

And then the eye is real dark, which is interesting.

[Spencer]

This tattoo was sent to us by Jack Shotgun. He says hello to my favorite podcast. I present to you the tattoo I most regret. I was 19 years old, it was the 4th of July, and my buddy had recently purchased a tattoo gun. He asked me what I wanted, and being a lover of all things outdoors, I said I'd like a big old buck on my arm. I paid $50 for it. And he tattooed a nice big whitetail. Now, here's the problem. I live in Utah and have never seen a whitetail buck with my own eyes. So Jack wasn't specific enough. And instead of getting a big old mule deer buck, he's got a whitetail that came straight from Michigan, and he's never even laid eyes.

[Cal]

Did the friend continue on in his tattoo career? Like, that'd be an interesting aside.

[Corey]

I think it's pretty well done. I love the muscular. Yeah, he's all rutted up. Yeah.

[Cal]

This is not. Yeah, it is funny. It's worth having.

[Spencer]

It's not a bad tattoo, but it's not a great tattoo if you've never seen a one tattoo.

[Cal]

It does take up some space.

[Spencer]

A lot of precious real estate on Jack Shotgun's upper arm.

[Cal]

Oddly enough for me, the fact that it's $50, I'm like, oh, yeah, good job.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Honestly, not bad for 50 bucks.

[Corey]

That's a good idea.

[Spencer]

Okay, here is our next tattoo. This is from Eric James Corey. What do you see in there, from Eric?

[Corey]

Well, there's a lot going on here. Looks like a mountainous scene with a fly rod and maybe some sort of wolf dry fly going on there. There's a latitude, longitude, coordinates down by his wrist. Important part, looking at his forearm there on the inside, his. It's very well done. It looks fresh. Obviously, in this photo.

[Spencer]

A lot of details.

[Corey]

Skin still Red. Yeah.

[Spencer]

A lot of detail Eric had to say about that tattoo. He said, this tattoo is actually one of my favorites. That being said, it still managed to cause me a great deal of embarrassment. The coordinates in the tattoo are of a small creek. My family and I have fished as long as I can remember. We usually go together once a year. About six years ago, though, I went with my uncle and cousins, and we hiked separately. I got to a point in the trail where it forks, and I took a wrong turn and wound up a mile from the creek. Not a big deal, but as you can imagine, my family gave me all sorts of shit. How could you not know it's literally on your arm? They said they mocked me the rest of the day. And that story often comes up at family gatherings or anytime the creek is mentioned. I'm sure this week at Christmas, Eric is going to hear about that now. Okay, someone, Phyllis, just put a comment up there from DNH Saj. He says, now that's how you spot burn. Totally agree. Can you imagine putting, like, your favorite spot in the mountains, the exact coordinates on your arm for all to see?

[Cal]

Nope.

[Spencer]

No.

[Corey]

Yeah. You're just sitting at a restaurant and somebody's eyeballing over there.

[Spencer]

Yeah.

[Cal]

I don't know.

[Corey]

Or watching the show.

[Spencer]

Eric James has told. All right, now his favorite creek is to fish at with his family. It's not going to be so good anymore.

[Cal]

Eric.

[Corey]

It's a great tattoo, though.

[Spencer]

Good tattoo. But now he. He has to get mocked at Christmas time because of the time he got lost going to that exact spot.

[Corey]

Huh.

[Spencer]

All right, that brings us to the end of this week's show. Phil, let's get some final feedback from the chat.

[Phil]

Oh, sure. I was gonna look up where this guy's spot was fine, I guess. Let's see here. Here we are. First of all, Santa came into the chat. He says, quote, you think getting a tattoo is good. No, getting a tattoo is not good. I don't care about it, but it's not good behavior. Thanks, Santa. Appreciate it.

[Corey]

Sit down, Santa.

[Spencer]

We've got a question.

[Phil]

Do deer balls taste like cow balls, or are they completely different?

[Spencer]

Tastes the same. It's just like working with something. The cow balls, which are from a bull, those are 5x the size from a deer. So it's like working with a roast off of a big bull. Elk versus an antelope.

[Cal]

I think there can be some flavor change whether you're working in the rut or not.

[Spencer]

Sure.

[Cal]

And that's more elk experience with elk testicles.

[Spencer]

Five Exercise, though, on a bull from Jack Lyons.

[Phil]

He says, oopsie. Hi. All advice for cooking pronghorn antelope for someone who is an adult onset hunter. Got my first antelope with a bow.

[Spencer]

I think in the nation archery antelope has one of the lowest success rates for hunters. So well done, Jack Lyons. Cal, tell them how to cook that thing.

[Cal]

Just medium rare, buddy. Don't. Don't overcook it. Yeah, just, just nice and simple. Don't overcook it. It'll be great.

[Spencer]

Yeah, and I think the taste of that antelope, Jack, was determined back in August or September, whenever you killed this thing. I think antelope gets a bad rap because people kill them when it's hot outside. They don't take care of the meat right away. They're butchering the thing in a place where they set the hind quarter on a sage bush. And those sage bushes are super oily. And so when folks are like, oh, this meat just tastes like sage, that's not what the antelope tasted like. That's what the antelope tasted like after you laid the hind quarter on a whole, whole sage bush and got it covered in oil. So I think, Jack, if it tastes good, pat yourself on the back. Back in August for, for how you took care of the meat. Corey, what would you say about cooking that antelope?

[Corey]

Yeah, I agree. Hopefully staked most of it, at least. Every antelope that I get, I try and I try not to grind any of it just because every steak from neck to tail is just so darn delicious.

[Cal]

Yeah. And typically tender. So, yeah, we. I'll tell you straight up. We had a very tense evening meal about 10 days ago in, in my household.

[Spencer]

Tell us more.

[Cal]

I said, now don't overcook that.

[Corey]

And.

[Spencer]

And snort. Overcooked it.

[Cal]

And snort. Overcooked it. And how overcooked? Just a solid medium. Well.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Cal]

Yeah, like pert. Near burnt.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Cal]

I mean, it's like cube it up and turned into green chili at that point, you know.

[Spencer]

What else you got, Phil?

[Phil]

This is from Ryan Monahan. Question for everyone. I'm still looking for a gift for my dad that might help him hunt a little easier. He's getting older and isn't as mobile as he used to be. Gift ideas for older folks.

[Cal]

Have you got him the effed up old trucks calendar yet?

[Spencer]

Yeah, that'd make him a better hunter.

[Cal]

Well, that's something to think about.

[Spencer]

Hunt a little easier, Onx. I find that most of the older hunters in my life don't have Onx. And you show it to them and they're blown away, like. Well, I've always wondered who owned that property over yonder. I don't know. Makes it getting in and out of the field a lot easier if he hunts in a cold place. Just some hand warmers, toe warmers. Old folks, they get cold faster than a young buck like Corey.

[Corey]

Yeah, well. And one thought are those image stabilizing binos. Everybody gets a little shaky as they age.

[Cal]

Oh, man.

[Corey]

But a little less expensive. A solid shooting tripod. Something that can help keep that gun steady if he's rifle hunting.

[Cal]

I like all these. That's good thinking.

[Spencer]

They'll do a few more.

[Phil]

Sure. We got one from Phil. He says. Hey, Phil, Phil here. I'd like to know if the crew has a preferred Christmas cocktail or adult beverage. Can you ask them at the next question break? Will do, Phil.

[Spencer]

Corey said yes before the question was finished. What is it, Corey?

[Corey]

Anything and everything. Yeah. Beer, whiskey.

[Spencer]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Vodka, tequila.

[Phil]

It really is anything and everything.

[Spencer]

Yeah, I saw an old ad for Dr. Pepper back in like the 60s or 70s where they recommended heating up some Dr. Pepper on the stove and you serve that at Christmas time as like a Christmas drink.

[Cal]

Oh, really?

[Spencer]

I was like, I like that idea. So the last couple years I've been heating some up on the stove and then I pour some rum in there and I feel like I'm. I'm having a cocktail from 50 years ago.

[Cal]

Hmm, nice. Phil and I have covered this and I've secured some, but it's in Idaho.

[Phil]

Go on.

[Cal]

Bo's Angeles. Like, we just cannot get the. The Christmas ales, like the seasonal cold weather beers.

[Phil]

Those are my favorites. That was going to be my answer. Yeah. Y. Yep.

[Cal]

So we have Jubal Ale, which is.

[Phil]

Good, which is one of my favorites. That's from Deschutes out of Bend. Jubilee's be a good one. It's very, very unique tasting for sure.

[Cal]

But I think that my favorite is Ninkasi Slayer, and it is not distributed in the state of Montana.

[Phil]

The thing is, it used to be. But there is. I heard about. There was some drama about. There's like a distributor war. They were. They were kind of vying for power. And I guess whoever distributes Ninkasi said, fine, we're just gonna. We'll take our business elsewhere. They stopped bringing Ninkasi beers out.

[Luke Long]

Yeah.

[Cal]

Slayer is a fine winter beer.

[Phil]

I love beers that don't have, like, a lot of Christmas beers will do a bunch of additives. Like, they'll Put spices in them or fruits and stuff, which is, you know, that's fine on occasion, but I can't drink a lot of that. And I think it's like a natural beer that gets kind of like a nice fruity, roasty flavor with just the grains and the hops is impressive.

[Cal]

Lower budget option that was surprisingly tasty was the Sam Adams seasonal, like their winter beer. We had that in South Dakota a couple weeks ago and it was great. Back when it felt like winter, it was like six below zero.

[Phil]

Yeah, I love a good eggnog. I do a homemade eggnog. The thing about eggnog is that I can't drink a lot of it. I'm not much of a sipper. I don't really like sipping on drinks.

[Spencer]

You know another Christmas song I love is Father Christmas by the Kink. I'd put that like a top five Christmas song of all time. And it's like where some kids are angry that like God damn Santa didn't bring us any gifts again this year. Doesn't necessarily age great because he asked for a machine gun to scare the kids down the street in Father Christmas. So it's a little relic. What else you got, Phil? Give us a couple more.

[Phil]

Sure. Dylan's asking what you're gonna do with your deer this year, Spencer. Well, specifically, are you going to make more tallow?

[Spencer]

We have tallow in the freezer. We'll render that over Christmas break sometime. Then we're going to have some more lip balms, boot balms, make some lotion, some chapstick. We have. We have great plans with all that towel. I didn't kill anything early enough this year to have like a super, super fatty buck. Last year I killed the buck in Idaho in early October and that thing was loaded with fat. So this year I'm kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as my towel goes. One more, Phil.

[Phil]

One more. Why hasn't Meateater created an ugly slash holiday sweater that's from Teodor something or other? Great question. That's a great question. I think it's a good idea we should do something like that. Yep, that's for Sam upstairs. Okay, take care of that.

[Spencer]

2026. Now we have pre recorded episodes next week and the week after for Christmas and New Year. So this is our last live show of the year. Thanks for listening, everybody. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Happy New Year.

[Cal]

Travel safe, get outside, have fun.

[Spencer]

Appreciate you hanging with us for 2025. Bye now.

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[Cal]

Only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first. There the last one.

[Spencer]

Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

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[Spencer]

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