The MeatEater Podcast
Ep. 810: The Perfect Country and Western Song
Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Steven Rinella
Guests: Clay Cook, Clay Mills, Dan Reed, The Brothers Hunt
Episode Overview
In this lively Nashville-recorded episode, Steven Rinella and a panel of prolific country music songwriters pull back the curtain on how hit songs come to life on Music Row. Their goal? To work together and give listeners an authentic, often hilarious, look at the behind-the-scenes process of writing a classic country tune. This time, the challenge: pen “The Perfect Country and Western Song”—but with a twist. The subject? The humble mule, specifically one named “Betty Bay,” and why mules deserve more love than horses.
Key Discussion Points & Songwriting Process
Setting the Scene in Nashville
- 02:00–03:20: The crew gathers in a historic Music Row studio, trading playful banter about the deep roots of country music in Nashville.
- Steven sets the context: “I’m just trying to establish our credentials…we’re in the heart of the country music creation.” (03:12)
- The group jokes about which legends may have recorded in the room—“Dolly Parton’s been in this building…Tammy W’s been in this building. George Jones…allegedly.”
- Dan emphasizes: “This is the American South, and this is where music is made.” (03:33)
Music, Culture, and Regional Identity
- 03:36–04:12: Lighthearted debate on the importance of music in the South vs. the North.
- Dan Reed: “Music is important to people in the South.” (03:38)
- Steven Rinella counters: “Go tell the people in Motown about how special music is in the South.” (04:05)
What Nashville Songwriters Actually Do
- 04:31–06:15: Clay Cook and Clay Mills describe their daily routines as professional songwriters.
- “We write three, four days a week right here on Music Row. Sometimes we write in this room.” —Clay Cook (04:53)
- They explain the publisher system, co-writing sessions, and how artists’ schedules influence what songs get written.
- The “hook” is everything—ideas are tossed around rapid-fire and the best rise to the top.
The Mule vs. Horse Debate
- 06:16–09:13: The episode’s songwriting focus emerges: a tongue-in-cheek promo for mules.
- Steven pitches: “I was gonna pitch you guys…on an idea of a song that you could develop about how mules are better than horses.” (06:33)
- Dan provides “bullet points” for mule superiority: “Mules are sure footed, like way more sure footed than a horse. They have more stamina, they live longer, and they have a long working life.” (09:09)
Brainstorming the Song
- 09:14–12:24: The writers use real-life mule stories and data as song fodder.
- Dan shares his mule’s name, “Izzy,” and later “Betty Bay,” which instantly sparks creative hooks.
- Clay Mills: “Maybe this is a story tune…like you’re on a mountain and a cat jumps…[but] your mule stays.” (09:13)
- The group sketches out lyrical hooks, aiming for authenticity and broad appeal.
Crafting the Chorus and Lyrics
- 16:28–27:30: The team gets down to writing, word-by-word:
- They debate whether to make the song upbeat or “fun, folky.”
- Negotiating between “too technical” and “commercially cool”—e.g., how to describe a mule’s size so it resonates with a mainstream audience (20:04–20:49).
- Clay Cook, riffing on “horsepower vs. mule power”: “Horsepowers for Hollywood, mules for the mountains.” (22:14)
- The group polishes lines about carry-ability (“She’ll carry a hog or a white tail deer, she’s ready to go any day of the year.”) and playful nods to Arkansas.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On the Nashville Sound
- Clay Mills: “I would venture to say you’re in the heart of the country music creation.” (03:14)
- Joking about the Mule Song’s Commercial Potential
- Clay Mills: “We could sht on horses through this entire song, right? But I think the move is to pick one poignant moment to sht on a horse and then just keep it honoring.” (12:03)
- On Songwriter Etiquette
- Clay Mills: “This is one of my favorite quotes I’ve ever heard in Nashville about that. Someone said…‘I don’t know that this is the crop, but it might be the fertilizer for it.’” (23:12)
- On Song Structure
- Clay Cook: “Don’t bore us, get to the chorus.” (24:32)
The Songwriting in Action: “Betty Bay”
- 26:43–27:30: The highlight—a rough, in-the-moment performance of the chorus.
- Clay Cook sings:
“Mountain Cadillac, old Arkansas clay, Betty Bay, Betty Bay
Finest mule God ever made
She’s going on eight, stands 14-3, a thousand pounds of energy
She’ll carry a hog or a whitetail deer,
She’s ready to go any day, Betty Bay, Betty Bay
She’s a mountain Cadillac, roll Arkansas clay, Betty Bay.”
- Clay Cook sings:
Timestamps for Major Segments
- 02:00 – Music Row & Nashville studio legacy
- 04:31 – What life as a Nashville songwriter is really like
- 06:16 – Deciding on a “mule song” and why
- 09:34 – Crafting a story-based country song (mules vs. horses)
- 16:28 – Building the chorus and fleshing out lyrics
- 20:04 – Debating lyrics and technical vs. commercial language
- 22:14 – “Horsepower vs. mule power”
- 26:43–27:30 – Live songwriting performance: “Betty Bay” chorus
Episode Tone & Takeaways
- The episode is rich with casual camaraderie, inside jokes, and authentic details from the world of country songwriting.
- The songwriters generously share tricks of their trade—how they co-create, the lingo of Music Row, and how to nod to an audience’s lived experience.
- Ultimately, listeners not only get a lighthearted education on Music Row’s songwriting culture but also an off-the-cuff new country song celebrating underdog mules everywhere.
For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode of The MeatEater Podcast is a colorful, welcoming window into both country music’s creative process and the quirky, deep-rooted rivalry between mules and horses—delivered with genuine Nashville flair.