Ep. 813: Stolen Elk and the Best Fishing Lures of All Time | MeatEater Radio (Not) Live!

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The MeatEater Podcast
Episode: Ep. 813: Stolen Elk and the Best Fishing Lures of All Time | MeatEater Radio (Not) Live!
Date: December 26, 2025
Host: Steven Rinella’s crew: Spencer, Max, Corey, Mark Kenyon, Phil
Key Guests: David Fabian (Guns & Ammo), Mark Kenyon (Wired to Hunt)

---

Overview

This episode is a lively, story-driven roundtable covering wild outdoor mishaps, memorable hunts, gear talk, listener Q&A, and the ultimate fishing lures. The focal point is a jaw-dropping account of trophy elk theft on Wyoming public land, told first-hand by outdoor editor David Fabian. Woven through are top-3 lists from the hosts, excellent practical advice for hunters and anglers, and plenty of classic MeatEater ribbing and laughs.

---

Major Discussion Points & Highlights

1. Christmas Accidents & Embarrassment (02:03–05:42)

• Corey shares a humorous but painful story about getting a concussion by throwing a rock at a frisbee stuck in a tree, only for the rock to bounce back and hit his face.
  • “The rock didn’t knock it down. And it was a hell of a throw, too.” – Corey (05:09)
• The gang teases Corey for opting for honesty about how he got injured, rather than making up a more heroic tale.

---

2. Stolen Elk Saga: Interview with David Fabian

(The main feature; timestamps 05:43–21:36)

The Setup (06:01–08:06)

• Fabian and friends accessed a landlocked Wyoming public parcel via helicopter—"You can't walk there," only aerial access or private connections.
  • “We could look back in the distance… but yeah, can't walk there.” – Fabian (06:24)
• It took years and over two dozen calls to find a pilot willing to fly them in.

The Hunt & the Theft (08:06–11:46)

• After a successful elk hunt (doubled up on mature bulls), events take a wild turn:
• While returning to the kill site, they spot a rancher walking across the flats with an elk rack.
  • “Holy cow, could we really be witnessing an elk theft…from a rancher who obviously came on private across private ground.” – Fabian (09:12)
• Recognizing the unique antlers as one their group shot, Fabian describes a gut-sinking realization.

Confrontation in the Brush (11:46–15:04)

• Fabian and his friend catch up to the rancher, who is hiding in brush, initially denying everything and refusing to identify himself.
  • “He finally came out. And it’s a 70-year-old dude and I’m just like, my mind is blown…” – Fabian (12:07)
• Fabian starts recording with his phone for evidence.

Denial & Bizarre Resolution (15:04–16:12)

• Despite initial denials, the rancher admits he took the antlers because “he didn’t want us hunting on this outfit,” referring to the public land he’s had to himself for decades.
• The rancher offers Fabian’s team help getting the antlers out of the steep drainage—“a little bit of redemption on his behalf.” (15:52)

Aftermath: Law Enforcement & Stakes (16:12–21:36)

• Fabian immediately calls the game warden, who is astonished and begins investigation.
• Potential charges exceed hunter harassment due to the documented theft.
  • “This goes way beyond that. So I’m going to open the local sheriff’s office and they’re gonna do an investigation…” – Game warden, quoted by Fabian (17:22)
• Fabian shares stories of repeated landowner hostility toward public land access, including threats and land sabotage.
  • “In their minds it is their land. They don’t have the deeded rights…but they genuinely do feel…it is their land.” – Fabian (18:32)
• The story is emblematic of larger access and etiquette conflicts in the American West.
  • “The part that scares me the most…if this guy gets off with a slap on the wrist that it’s gonna put future flying hunters in danger.” – Fabian (17:59)

Notable Quote:
“I was relieved that we got the elk head back, and I was relieved that we didn’t get shot. Truthfully, that was my biggest fear in the whole thing.” – David Fabian (15:06)

---

3. Quick Listener Q&A: Waterfowl Cooking, Gear, and Game Memories (24:18–34:10)

• Duck Cooking: Simple "steak-style" duck and goose, skin-on if possible. Phil highlights one of the best cooked waterfowl moments as a side-by-side with mallard and coot (25:26).
• How to Wash Merino Wool: Use gentle, specialized detergent, cold cycle, low or air drying (26:05).
• Favorite Gear Under $50: Hand warmers and toe warmers, aftermarket boot insoles, neck gaiters/buffs—all highlighted for their massive comfort impact vs. cost (27:49).

Memorable Moment:
“You can get a $500 coat or you can get a $1 hand warmer... and it’ll really keep you out there longer.” – Spencer (27:21)

• Phil’s Favorite Episodes: Author interviews, nautical disaster episodes, and special field episodes (31:00).

---

4. Top Three Lists Frenzy (35:46–54:56)

Corey: Top 3 Outdoor Adventures (36:19)

1. Texas aoudad hunt with Corinne—“being able to explore this super rugged, dry, arid country…staring into Mexico” (37:01)
2. Family drift boat camping trips—“fish all day, pull into a beach wherever you want” (38:44)
3. Secret Montana creek trip with son, culminating in a giant cutthroat caught by his boy (40:13)

Max: Top 3 Duck Hunting Accessories (41:19)

1. Jerk rig – for water motion (41:31)
2. Game tote – keeps ducks separated and helps with legal clarity and photo ops (42:45)
3. Neck gaiter – warmth and concealment (43:52)

Spencer: Top 3 Fishing Lures Ever (44:26)

1. Johnson Beetle Spin – ultimate panfish lure; caught a huge flathead on it (45:11)
2. Rapala Shad Rap – versatile, reliable crankbait (45:34)
3. Strike King KVD Sexy Frog – favorite for topwater bass (46:22)

Pro tip:
“Take scissors and cut off a half inch of that hula skirt, add a trailer hook—you’ll get better hook sets.” – Spencer (47:24)

Phil: Top 3 Office Tiki Mugs (49:14)

• With honorable mentions, including a Star Wars Ewok-themed mug from Disney parks.

---

5. Mark Kenyon’s Top 5 Books for Whitetail Hunters (55:56–63:32)

1. A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold – “equivalent of the Bible” for conservation-minded hunters (62:24)
2. Whitetail Access by Chris Eberhart – DIY hunting adventure via minivan across multiple states
3. Whitetail Nation by Pete Bodo – blend of personal journey and whitetail culture history
4. A Hunter’s Heart (ed. by David Peterson) – collection of essays on the philosophy of hunting
5. Mapping Trophy Bucks by Brad Herndon – foundational, visual-heavy text on topography and deer movement

Memorable Quote:
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. These essays are the delights and dilemmas of one who cannot.” – Aldo Leopold, read by Mark Kenyon (62:24)

---

6. More Listener Questions: Wild Game Pairings, Best Bites, Gear Wishes, Game Strategies (63:42–75:59)

• Wine with Wild Game: The panel pokes fun at themselves for having limited opinions, suggesting red wine, Malbecs, or just using ChatGPT for recommendations (64:29).
• Best wild game Phil’s eaten: Michael Hunter’s elk tenderloin with huckleberry demi-glace – “melted in my mouth” (65:38).
• Outdoors gear wish lists: Wall tent, more decoys, “a lot of land” (67:10).
• Favorite fossil hunting states: Any state with ample BLM land—Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming (68:54).
• Hunting/Fishing Video Games: Phil touches on The Hunter: Call of the Wild and expresses interest in chill fishing games like Cast and Chill (69:03).
• Exotic Deer/Elk/Waterfowl Strategies for New Ground: Always have multiple backup plans; for deer start with food sources, for waterfowl start with water and weather, for elk prioritize boots-on-the-ground scouting days (72:46–74:59).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Lines (with Timestamps)

• “Holy cow, could we really be witnessing an elk theft in the process…from a rancher who obviously came on private across private ground.”
  – David Fabian (09:12)

• “I was relieved that we got the elk head back, and I was relieved that we didn’t get shot. Truthfully, that was my biggest fear in the whole thing.”
  – David Fabian (15:06)

• “In their minds it is their land. They don’t have deeded rights…but they genuinely do feel…it is their land.”
  – David Fabian (18:32)

• “You can get a $500 coat or you can get a $1 hand warmer... and it’ll really keep you out there longer.”
  – Spencer (27:21)

• “If you care about wildlife and wild things, this is a book that just has to be on your bookshelf.”
  – Mark Kenyon on A Sand County Almanac (63:32)

• “Lots of agates and petrified wood. Still don't have quite the eye for it…even though I have found the biggest agate I've ever seen.”
  – Corey, on Montana river camping (38:33)

---

Tone & Style

The episode balances pragmatic backcountry advice with storytelling and affectionate ragging among the hosts. It’s full of vivid, detailed anecdotes, practical outdoor wisdom, and the wry, self-aware humor MeatEater fans love.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Christmas mishaps, concussion story: 02:03–05:42
• David Fabian's elk theft saga: 05:43–21:36
• Listener Q&A, gear under $50 and food tips: 24:18–34:10
• Top-3 lists (adventures, accessories, lures, mugs): 35:46–54:56
• Mark Kenyon’s top 5 whitetail books: 55:56–63:32
• Final listener Q&A (wine, best bites, gear, game plans): 63:42–75:59

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• Even ultra-remote public land is no guarantee of a drama-free hunt—access battles and entitlement run deep.
• Recording confrontations can be critical for protecting your rights and covering your bases.
• Sometimes the best hunting and fishing tips are the simplest—hand warmers, basic lures, practical gear.
• The community's collective knowledge (and humor) shines through—whether sharing favorite books, recipes, or stories of hard-won success.
• If you want more detail, check out David Fabian’s article: “A landowner stole our trophy elk” on Peterson’s Hunting.

---

For further inspiration, laughs, and real-world outdoor lessons, this episode offers plenty—topped by the jaw-dropping tale of the stolen Wyoming elk.

Transcript

[Jenna Kim Jones]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Max]

Guaranteed Human.

[Corey]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go.

[Spencer]

To help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means playing in a football game.

[Mark Kenyon]

Boom.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

42. You're going down, Doug.

[Spencer]

Oh, yeah.

[Max]

Your price on car insurance when you.

[Spencer]

Customize and save is going down.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Hey.

[Spencer]

Limu, what are you doing on their team?

[Corey]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Spencer]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[David Fabian]

Oh, oh, oh. O'Reilly, you need parts. O'Reilly Auto Parts has parts. Need them fast. We've got fast. No matter what you need. We have thousands of professional parts people doing their part to make sure you have it. Product availability just one part that makes O'Reilly stand apart. The professional parts people.

[Spencer]

O'Reilly Auto Parts. Coca Cola for the big, for the.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Small, the short and the tall.

[Spencer]

Peacemakers. Risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love. For introverts and extroverts.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

The thinkers and the doers for old.

[Spencer]

Friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.

[Phil]

Smell us now, lady.

[Spencer]

Welcome to meat eater trivia.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Meat eater podcast.

[Mark Kenyon]

Foreign.

[Spencer]

Welcome to Meat Eater radio live. It's 1:30pm Mountain Time. That's 2:30 for our friends in Santa Claus, Indiana on Wednesday, December 17th. And we're live from Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman. We are currently at home with friends and family because it is Christmas Day. I'm your host, Spencer, joined today by Corey and Max. On today's show, we'll interview David Fabian about having his elk skull stolen by a rancher while hunting public land in Wyoming. Then we'll have some top three lists, followed by an interview with Mark Kenyon about the best books for whitetail hunters. And finally, we'll answer some listener submitted questions. But first, Corey, my head hurts just looking at you. He says you have a black eye and a big bandage on your face. That's not normal. You had to cancel coming into trivia earlier this week because you said you got a concussion. And I said, oh, no. Did it happen while you were skiing? And you said, no, no, it's much worse than that.

[Max]

Long story.

[Spencer]

Tell folks what happened.

[Corey]

Better or worse? Pretty embarrassing, but happy to share it with the world. Got my dog's Frisbee stuck into a tree.

[Spencer]

How high up in a tree?

[Corey]

Not, not high. Maybe 10ft. You know, I could almost reach it with a stick. That was plan A. Plan B, naturally, was to throw a rock into the tree, right? Just try and knock it down. Picked up a, I don't know, 9, 10 pound rock off the ground.

[Spencer]

How. How big? Show me with your hand. Like, like softball size?

[Corey]

Yeah, bigger than about a softball.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Max]

How much did it weigh?

[Corey]

Probably 10 pounds.

[Mark Kenyon]

Okay.

[Corey]

You know, just easy enough to get some good velocity. Throwing it into the tree to knock the frisbee down. I hit the frisbee, but it was stuck in a weird little nest. Bounced off the tree, bounced off a limb, and then hit me in the face. It was headed right for, like between my eyes and I turned my head. Last second, it got me just under my eye, obviously.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Pretty brutal. Nothing happened at first, but it. About 20 minutes later, I passed out. So minor concussion. It's been a couple days. Staying at home, relaxing. Yeah. I couldn't partake in trivia, which, lucky for the other contestants, obviously.

[Phil]

So.

[Corey]

Yeah, no. Feeling a lot better though. Thanks for asking.

[Spencer]

Yeah. Well, we're making him host radio, despite he's him saying he's still a little foggy.

[Mark Kenyon]

Little foggy.

[Corey]

If I pass out, this will be one hell of an episode.

[Spencer]

Good content. Yeah. Does it still hurt?

[Max]

Good.

[Corey]

It's tight. Like everything in my right cheek is just healing, you know, so. No, it doesn't hurt anymore. Yeah, just my pride.

[Spencer]

Yeah. Well, good on you for telling the truth. I'd have lied about that. I'd been like, yeah, I was skiing it. Quadruple black diamond.

[Max]

Took a ski pole or something, you know?

[Corey]

Yeah. I don't want that karma to hit me even harder than that rock did, you know, so.

[Spencer]

Well, it got you good.

[Corey]

It did. Stupid rock. But I still need to go back to that tree, get the frisbee and.

[Spencer]

Oh, the frisbee's still out there.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Corey]

And then I'll bring home the rock too, and I don't know, put it on my mantle.

[Spencer]

We have gusts of like 80 miles per hour today. That Frisbee might be long gone.

[Corey]

It was up there, man. Let me tell you, the rock didn't knock it down. And it was a hell of a throw, too.

[Max]

Oh, God.

[Spencer]

And now, now you get to answer this question. All of Christmas, hanging out with the family.

[Corey]

Oh, can't wait.

[Spencer]

So you've got a version of the story that's well told at this point. Yep.

[Corey]

Nope, it's all good.

[Max]

You're in good spirits about it, so that's good.

[Corey]

Try to be.

[Spencer]

Thanks for coming today. And this show is coming out. You're going to be on the live show that we record tomorrow that is live. And so we're not even going to address it. We're just going to tell folks, if you want to know what happened to Corey's face, you got to tune in next week.

[Mark Kenyon]

There you go.

[Corey]

Leave him hanging.

[Spencer]

All right. Joining us on the line first is David Fabian, the editor of Guns and Ammo Special interest publications. He had a run in on public land in Wyoming with a rancher earlier this fall that went viral on social media. He's here to tell us that story. David, welcome to the show.

[Max]

Howdy, David.

[David Fabian]

Hey, Spencer. Hi, guys.

[Spencer]

First thing, tell us about the area you were hunting and how you accessed it.

[David Fabian]

Yeah, we were hunting this, this chunk of landlocked public, Public land. That only way to get there if you don't have a family connection or deep pockets, is to, Is to take a helicopter. So we parked our rig and we boarded a helicopter and flew about four minutes and set up camp. And we could look back in the distance and maybe four and a half miles we could see our cars down there. But, yeah, can't walk there.

[Spencer]

And it took a few years for you to find a pilot who was willing to fly you into these places. What was that process like?

[David Fabian]

Oh, incredibly frustrating. I had this, I had this idea that, that, you know, I want to hunt landline public land because it's got to be the Shangri La of. Oh, yeah, a public land. And so I finally, I finally got the, the plan together and, and then I called air operator after air operator after air operator and no one, no one would do it. I think it was my, my 26th or 27th.

[Spencer]

Whoa.

[David Fabian]

Helicopter or plane pilot I spoke to that said, yeah, I'd love to do it.

[Spencer]

Okay, you found, you found the right guy. I read that at one point you were talking to someone who could drop you in there with a hot air balloon, Correct?

[David Fabian]

No, No. I was so desperate to make a hunt happen that I called a hot air balloon manufacturer. Oh. And I said, I said, I said, guys, have you ever sold any hot air balloons for DIY hunters? And they go, no, that's the first we've heard of this. And they say, they said to me, you do realize you can't steer them, right? And I did realize that, and I still do think that it could be done. So maybe, maybe next year we'll be talking about my hot air balloon hunt.

[Spencer]

Yeah, you were desperate. Max, our co host, has a question.

[Max]

Yeah, David? What's Wyoming's rule about flying and hunting the same day?

[David Fabian]

You can do it, no problem. If you use it for, if you use the Aircraft for transportation purposes and not scouting. You're good to go.

[Max]

Okay, cool.

[Spencer]

Okay, so you get the four minute helicopter ride into your spot. Tell us about the hunt itself, which took place back in November.

[David Fabian]

So the, the hunt itself was very special. It, my buddy had been scheming on getting on this land to hunt for like 20 some years and he said if you can get us a helicopter, then we'll have a great elk hunt. Well, we got the helicopter and we had, I mean we had a great elk hunt, but, but the hunt itself was, was overshadowed by, by two things. One, obviously we'll get to, but we also happen to had that amazing northern lights display.

[Max]

Oh, that's awesome.

[David Fabian]

After we, after we got a double on on nice mature bulls, we went, went back to camp and it was like a six hour show. And the time lapse of the, the videographer got on it is just like, it gives me goosebumps even telling the story thinking about it.

[Spencer]

Good stuff. So you were, you were processing when one of the bulls when, when the thing happened and, and you said quote, the, the strangest hunting encounter of your life. That's how you described in your article on Peterson's hunting what happened.

[David Fabian]

Yeah, I mean there's, there's nothing that even comes close to this one. I've had, I've had issues with people like we all had on public land, but, but nothing like this. So, so my buddy and I, we left our camp and hiked to the kill site where we both killed, we killed two bulls that were probably 150 yards apart. So we, we hiked back to my, my bowl and we got there at nine o' clock in the morning and we're gonna start packing meat and the other guys were gonna come meet us as soon as they got done doing some filming. So we sit down at my bowl and we look down below and there walking across this flat is, is a rancher or another hunter. He's got a, you know, elk handlers over his shoulder. And so I think to myself, huh, you know, whatever we got, we got two elk in this place last night. The, the rancher obviously shot one in there as well. Yeah. Didn't even think anything of it. And my buddy, he said, I wonder if that's our other elk. And just then this light bulb goes off my head like, holy cow, could we really have, could we really be witnessing an elk theft in the process from, from a ranch who obviously came on private across private ground. And so I just brought my binoculars. He didn't bring them. He left it back camp. But, but he sent me to your binoculars. And so he took my binoculars and looked down there 200 yards and he recognized the back forks of, of the elk as, as being one that our buddy Ryan shot. And he said, he said, I think that's our elk. And so I, I'm thinking still no, no way. Like what, what are the. It's not even the realm of possibility. So he says, stay here, keep an eye on the brush line. Because the guy walked into brush. So, so Ben looked at him for a mean. He just had seconds to determine that that could be our, our elk. He said, stay here and keep looking down at the, at the brush line. So I stayed there and I expected this, this rancher, that'd be him. I expected this rancher would come out and go get a quarter and take the quarter and walk into the brush. Never came out. And so a few minutes later, once, once Ben and made it up to the other kill site, all of a sudden I hear this voice come booming down and he said he stole her out. Go after him. And it's like, okay. Now that's where it became the weirdest moment of my hunting, my hunting career. And I mean, it's one thing to have interactions with people, but it's a whole different thing when you catch someone stealing your antlers and they don't want you there to begin with. I mean that's just, that's just a given. But they go to the, go to the degree of stealing. You're, you're stealing from you. And then they're hiding in brush line. You just caught them like approaching that brush line. I cannot even describe the, the pangs of fear that went through me. Like I was terrified. But, but we had to do it. So Ben got there first. Oh, go ahead.

[Spencer]

No, I was just going to recap. You've now you got three bulls down. You have, you're working on the meat. You've watched this rancher from 200 yards away walk into the brush with your elkhead and then you guys march over there. What's the conversation like with the rancher?

[David Fabian]

Well, my, my buddy didn't. Ben did most of the talking at first and he was, he was obviously really pissed. He wanted the guy to come out. The guy was hiding in there. He wouldn't come out. He finally, he finally came out. And it's a, it's a 70 year old dude and I'm just like, my mind is blown. Like I, I can't even say anything. For the first, for the first few Minutes, probably. I was just recording with my. With my phone because I knew this was evidence we're gonna have to use. And so that is one thing that anyone in this situation, like, we've got amazing technology and just pulling out your phone and. And recording stuff will really cover your. Cover your bases. But anyways, the conversation was. Was very simple, like, why did this happen?

[Spencer]

What.

[David Fabian]

What. What purpose did you steal this elkhead for? Like. Like, what's going on? And the guy. The guy didn't. Didn't answer. He did a bunch of. A bunch of misdirection. Wouldn't identify himself as the rancher. Denied even having the bull.

[Spencer]

We.

[David Fabian]

We called him out and all of stuff, But. But ultimately he said the reason was he didn't. He didn't want us hunting on this outfit. That's what he said. This outfit, meaning the public land that he's had sole access to for, I guess, probably 45 years that he's been there.

[Spencer]

And at some point in this process, when you guys are glassing him or walking over there, you. You heard a few gunshots, correct? Where do those play into the story?

[David Fabian]

I. I can't. I can't confirm where those gunshots came from or who did it even. But I believe that that rancher shot three times that morning. And I don't.

[Max]

I don't.

[David Fabian]

I can't. I can't understand the. The logic behind that one. But anyways, when. When we saw him, he never had a rifle, so I can't. I can't confirm it was him nor. Nor what he did. But I'm guessing. I'm guessing he probably did it to. To signify, like, hey, I got an animal. And then if. If someone sees him packing out, like, that's. That's what happened. But that's. That's just. That's just pure theory. I don't. I don't think he did it to scare us or anything. Like, when you're. When you're on public land, people. People shoot and, you know you're not going to. You can get out of there because another hunter's in there.

[Spencer]

All right, so at the beginning of the conversation, the rancher is. Is denying the whole thing, right? But at some point, you get him to show you where the skull is. How did that go down?

[David Fabian]

No, he. I think. I think he said to us the first. First time was what bull. And. And Ben said, the one you just saw, the one we just saw you pack into the brush. And so. And so after. After a few minutes of conversation, Ben goes You want me to get the bull? And he goes, have at it. So Ben walks in there, and he looks down bottom of this little cut, and there's. And there's our buddy Ryan's elk antlers. So, so not only did he. Did he take the bull and put it in the brush line, but he tossed it down this. This 10 foot, 10 foot ditch and, and climbed down. It was. It was. It was not easy to get down there, but he climbed down there and. And he placed it in a place where you could barely see it. I know when I went to recover the antlers, because I. I got him out when I jumped down there, I. I looked, and sure enough, there was. There was fresh boot tracks in there. Like, he'd actually gone to the effort of hiding them so you could. You could barely find it.

[Spencer]

And then weirdly, he, like, offers to help you guys at that point. Right.

[David Fabian]

Well, that's. That's interesting how that worked out, because I was. I was relieved that we. That we got the elkhead back, and I was relieved that we didn't get shot. Truthfully, that was my biggest fear in the whole thing. But. But after we. After we. After attentions cooled, I realized that, hey, you know, that guy packed this elkhead down, you know, 300 vertical feet. So 300, maybe even 400 vertical feet and at least 300 yards. So said, how in the hell are we going to get it back up to the kill site? Like, we got to pack it up now, so what are you going to do? And I really. I. I thought. I thought he was going to say, look, guys, I messed up. You know, instead of, instead of taking out there, you can just come out my ranch, go get your cars, take your stuff out that way. I. I was waiting for that because I was thinking, okay, cool, save us.

[Max]

Money on the helicopter ride too.

[David Fabian]

It would have saved us so much money if he would. If he would have done that, but he didn't. He never did. He did. He did, however, offer to pack it up. So I thought that was. That was a little bit of a redemption on. On his behalf. Yeah.

[Spencer]

So you guys get the elk, then back to your camp. You and the rancher go your separate ways. At what point do you contact the authorities? And how did that conversation go?

[David Fabian]

As soon as we had service. Yeah, as soon as we had service, we. Well, we waited for our buddies to get back. And we said. You said, you think. You think the hunt was a. Was a cool story? Like, just wait till you, wait till you see what we. What we just Witnessed. And so, I mean, our friends were just slack jawed when we told them the story. Like they thought they were, that we were messing with them at first. And we're like, no, I promise you, we're not messing with you. But yeah. So we went back to camp that night and there we had good service. So the phone calls made to the game warden and said, yep, this happened. We'll be out tomorrow, what do we do? And the game warden said, please meet me, because that's a very odd story. And so until the next day we flew out and met with the game warden and told them, everyone in law enforcement, everyone, period, that hears a story, they all say the same thing. Like, I can't even, I cannot believe that happened.

[Max]

Yeah. Is that considered like hunt and harassment then or what did the game wardens actually say?

[David Fabian]

That's, that's a great, that's a great question. And I don't, I don't fully know what, what the long term legal outcome is going to be, but, but yeah, we, we asked the warden the same thing like, like what's going to happen here? And he goes, he goes, most I can do is hunter harassment. But he goes, after seeing the, after seeing the videos that we, that we made, he said, he said this goes way beyond that. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna open the local sheriff's office and they're gonna do an investigation and then we'll open our charges to the prosecutor, you know, entirety.

[Spencer]

God, this, this has been about a month removed from when it happened. The legal process is still playing out at this point, right?

[David Fabian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer]

But go ahead.

[David Fabian]

I am, I am optimistic because.

[Mark Kenyon]

A.

[David Fabian]

Few weeks ago I did get a phone call from the, from the sheriff's office and, and they actually said like, hey, we're pursuing this. We're about to hand this to the prosecutor. So he will, he will be, he will be punished for what he did. And, and that's good, that's a good thing. Because the, the part that scares me the most is, is not the, not the brazen act that, that, that a lot of these landowners go to, to deter you from legally accessing it with aircraft. But I worry if this guy gets off just a slap on the wrist that it's gonna, it's gonna put future flying hunters in danger. I mean, some, ultimately something bad's going to happen. Like, it's one thing to lose Nailhead, but it'd be just a tragedy for someone to lose their life.

[Spencer]

Now this was not your first fly in, Hunt. Have you had problems in the past with neighboring landowners?

[David Fabian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, when I, when I first started this, I thought to myself, like, yeah, they're going to be annoyed, but what are they going to do? It's not their land, you know. Really? What are they going to do? Well, what I found out now is in their minds it is their land. They don't have deed, they don't have the deeded, deeded rights to it. But, but they genuinely do feel, and this is, this is a blanket statement. So I'm just, I'm just talking with the, the people we've interacted with, but every single landowner that we've had interactions with has been less than, less than welcoming. And, and, and some people, there's, there's a, there's a couple that has a massive, a massive ranch that surrounds, I mean, I don't know, maybe 30,000 total acres of public landlocked land, but they're so extreme that they pester us on the hunts. They find excuses to go in there looking for cows. This lady would take her kids like in October we did a flying deer hunt and my dad and his High school buddy, two 75 year olds are in there hunting deer and cow elk and, and this lady shows up above their ridge, middle of nowhere and she takes her kids for a, for a loud walk right above their camp. It's like, it's so annoying. But, but she took it to, she took it to level that. That is still surprising me. She told our helicopter pilot, she said that if, if I can't have sole access to that land and you guys keep coming in by helicopter, then I'm gonna go in there and ruin that land. Ruin that land. So no one can take advantage of, so no one can use it.

[Mark Kenyon]

Wow.

[Spencer]

And you're just, you're like pretty vulnerable back there in, in those situations.

[David Fabian]

Yeah, yeah, it, I never, I've never been in combat, but it, it is like almost like you're getting dropped off on an island because, because yeah, you could leave if you wanted to, but you really can't.

[Max]

Like you're going to be trespassing.

[David Fabian]

You got to trespass to get out of there. And the first time I went in the helicopter, the helicopter landed and gave us a big group briefing. And so we're sitting around the helicopter and finally after, after 30 minutes of, of how to avoid getting your head chopped off, we, we boarded our, our flight for the, for the first trip in and this, and this rancher came around us on this four wheeler and the helicopter wasn't running yet. But he said, he said, good luck. We'll be seeing you soon. And he said it in like such a. Such a spooky villain kind of way.

[Max]

Almost like a threat.

[David Fabian]

I assure you that that first night in there, I was ready for a posse of landowners to come there and try to lynch us from a tree and.

[Spencer]

Yeah, last question, David. You and I worked together about a decade ago when I was at Peterson's Hunting in Illinois. How much do you miss me?

[David Fabian]

How much do I miss you or Peoria?

[Corey]

Loaded.

[Spencer]

Question me. Well, you could answer both. Yeah. How much you miss me? And then tell us how much you miss Peoria.

[David Fabian]

On a scale 1 to 10. I miss you 9.8.

[Spencer]

All right.

[David Fabian]

Yes, I. I really do. On a scale 1 to 10 for Peoria. I just miss the people. I don't miss the place at all.

[Spencer]

Okay. So same. Yeah, good answer.

[David Fabian]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

You can read David's full story about the hunt in his article called A landowner stole our trophy elk on peterson hunting.com. david, thanks for joining us and telling the story.

[David Fabian]

Thanks, guys. Take care.

[Max]

See you, David.

[David Fabian]

See you, man.

[Spencer]

Wild, crazy stuff.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[David Fabian]

I don't even know what to do.

[Corey]

Well, and this crazy part is not only to landowners, not all of them, obviously. It's, it's, it's a few that get a little frustrated with this. But not only do they believe that the land is theirs, but the animals are theirs too. Yeah, there's a lot of that going on that just is mind blowing to me. There's a dollar amount on each one of those trillion.

[Max]

It's so crazy too, because a lot of times when I see like, there's different land for sale and listing, the realtors will advertise like, oh, so and so much public land landlocked.

[Corey]

Yeah, right.

[Max]

You know, and I'm just like, that's not considered theirs.

[Spencer]

But yeah, and it's wild timing that they, like saw it go down. You know, if they'd have been five minutes behind in the process and didn't see it happen, who knows how that story would have been different.

[David Fabian]

Right.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it. Even in cold butter. Yep. Chocolate ice cream. Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be Tide.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

What a matchup. We got Y', all, this is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rockin' and the crowd lit. Chance echo drum beat everybody showing that school pride. Game like this. Yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere and an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo no matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[I]

So let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives to change how you do business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Spencer]

Alright. Normally at this point in the show we take a break for some listener feedback. But since we're not live, these are questions that were submitted ahead of time. We'll hit a few of them now and then a few at the end of the show. The first one is from Ryan Bollinger. Favorite way to cook waterfowl. Max.

[Max]

If I could, every single time, I would cook skin on duck for sure. But that's not as an option. Especially like early season when they don't, they're not as fatty, they still have pin feathers. So a lot of times like duck or goose, just cook it like a steak, trim it, trim all the silver skin off, salt, pepper, garlic. Turns out awesome. Especially like the snow geese, the speckled bellies, even like some of your dabbler ducks. Yeah, it's great. But yeah, I've done things like the crock pot, barbecued shredded meat tacos. The options are really endless. I know Steve's favorite way is like duck confit which is also really good. But yeah, ducker, goose, pastrami. I just made some over Thanksgiving.

[Mark Kenyon]

Phenomenal.

[Spencer]

All these recipes on the Meat eater dot com. I think my best waterfall I've had was when Cal and I were filming Pardon my Plate. When we did the coot episode, we did a side by side comparison with a mallard that the skin was left on. We cooked it on a hot grill just like you said with a steak and it was, it was phenomenal. You would struggle in a Pepsi challenge to identify that that was a male versus a piece of beef. It was, it was really great.

[Max]

Yeah, I think Steve is doing a comparison with a merganser golden eye and a mallard here.

[Spencer]

Coming up, a dabbler and a couple divers.

[Max]

So we'll see how that goes.

[Spencer]

Corey, favorite way to cook waterfowl?

[Corey]

Well, I don't really have much of a duck in this fight. I don't do a lot of waterfowl hunting, but just same exact, I would say the same exact way I cook any steak, which is in a hot cast iron pan.

[David Fabian]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

All right, next question from Will Palangas. How do you guys wash your marino wool base layers? I reached out to the folks at First Light to get an official answer on this because I didn't want to lead anyone astray. Here's what they told me. Some companies make cleaners that are specifically for marina wool products. One of them is Grangers, which First Light really likes. Some of the staff over there, me included, just uses dead down wind. And if you aren't buying a special detergent for your base layers, they say to look for labels that say gentle or mild on them. As far as the washing goes, they say it's really important to wash on a gentle cycle with cold water. Try to separate different fabrics and colors. For example, you don't want to put a merino wool kiln hoodie in wash. It has a heavy coat with Velcro. It's going to get beat up. For drying, they say do a tumble dry or a low dry. Blasting the merino wool in a hot dryer might shrink it. So simply put it mild detergent or specialized detergent like Grangers and then wash and dry at cool temps.

[Max]

Yeah, I'm so horrible, so horrible at this. I just throw everything together and wash it the same, dry it the same. But I do try if I know I'm doing some merino wool I'll like try to keep it on low for the drying aspect for sure. But yeah, I am so bad at it.

[Corey]

Yeah, low and slow. Same with down products too. So natural fibers, low light wash and then either a super light tumble or even just hang it outside if you got nice weather hanging in a pine tree.

[Spencer]

Yep, open air and sunlight can do a lot for your smelly clothes. Okay. Cameron J07 best piece of hunting gear you use. That's under $50. I'll do even one better. I'll go under $1. Hand warmers and toe warmers. Anyone? Anyone you know who hunts or fishes north of the Mason Dixon line, they'll find a use for some hand warmers and some toe warmers. I Think they're still like 98 cents. When I was hunting in Illinois, it was single digits. Having those hand warmers and toe warmers was, like, as important as my coat, you know, and it's like a $500 coat versus a $1 hand warmer. They'll really keep you out there longer.

[Max]

Do you find your feet? If you do the toe warmers, your feet get too sweaty or too warm, and they get. Then they get sweaty and then they get cold.

[Spencer]

No, but I'm also not like walking around in them either. Right? Like, it's like, okay, this is where I'm parking my butt for the next two hours. So I'm throwing a toe warmer in there. Favorite piece of gear under $50 max.

[Max]

For me, it's got to be like neck gator or a buff. Yeah, actually got one right here. This is the Tundra cold weather neck gator. 40 bucks. Works as a face mask, and it just works as just keeping the wind off the back your neck. Yeah, I love it.

[Spencer]

I like them if, you know, even I'm hunting in September, obviously not that heavy of one, but. Yeah, just the sun and.

[Max]

Yeah, I mean, just like something to help conceal your face a little bit. And then like, if you can, it kills two birds in one stone.

[Mark Kenyon]

So.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Or you tell Cameron. Favorite piece of hunting gear under $50.

[Corey]

A cheap pair of aftermarket insoles. Obviously, you could go big and get some custom orthotics that could run you 100 to $200.

[Spencer]

What's your favorite?

[Corey]

I really like super feet just because they're. They're. I think they're maybe a little over $50 now, but just Google aftermarket insoles and you'll find some under $50 for sure. Anything's better than the junk that they give you in the boots. I mean, they'll last you a couple months, but do your feet a favor and get aftermarket insoles. Make sure it matches your arch, so you might have to bump up a size to make sure it fits your arch. So if you can go into a boot store or any sporting goods store and try and put your foot on the insole, make sure it lines up with your arch, and then you can cut it to fit into your boot.

[Max]

I'm going to put that on my Christmas list.

[Spencer]

The cutting is poor, and if you get slightly oversized and they start to roll in your. In your boot, that's. That's no good. Next question is from Mo Heiskawa. What is Phil's favorite ever podcast episode of Meat Eater?

[Phil]

Oh, thanks, Mo I don't know if I have a specific one that sticks out, but I love the authors that Steve brings in because I don't connect as much to all the very specific hunting talk, but I love it when Steve specifically a nautical disaster, which Steve loves. And I also love from the Edmund Fitz to having David grand talking about the wager, because those guys just know their stuff so well. And Steve, you can feel Steve's passion when he's asking questions. I also love the awkward part of every conversation with an author when Steve tries to get them to talk about the end of the book and they don't want to. And he's like, oh, come on, it's fun. You know, it never fails to amuse me. And then it's like, I love the ones that stick out in my mind are the ones that we had to travel for. Like, I loved going to Werner Herzog's house was a trip. Going to LA with Spencer and Randall and doing the show with Rob Lowe at Sirius or David Chang at the Ringer was fun.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Phil]

So those are. Those are my favorites. I love the authors and the comedians. Like, Brad Leone was a lot of fun. Dan A Doot was a lot of fun, too.

[Spencer]

All right, Corey's gonna answer this next one from Redbeard fly fishing. If you were hunting in snow too deep for gators, what kind of pants do you like?

[Corey]

I'd have to go with the first light Omen storm shelter pants. They got the built in splash guard Velcro that goes around your boots, plus the boot lace hook like most gators have that keep them down when you're trudging through the snow. And they're waterproof, obviously. They're light. Full vents, knee pads. I mean, I think that's my favorite thing first light makes. And they're.

[Spencer]

What are they again?

[Corey]

The Omen pant.

[Spencer]

So will you wear the gators with those or is that overkill?

[Corey]

Man, if it was like melting snow and super sloppy, I've done it. Certainly gators, then those over the top. But dry snow. No, no need to. They're great for whatever. I use them backcountry skiing, too.

[Spencer]

All right, next question. We got two more left in this round. This is from Willie Scoe or Will is Cohey. I'm not sure. What is Max's white whale for? Waterfowl.

[Max]

Oh, that's a great question.

[Spencer]

I don't even have a guess. Something from the Arctic Circle or, like, not even that. Okay. Something banded.

[Mark Kenyon]

What?

[Spencer]

What is it?

[Max]

Yeah, no, it's. I mean, people Might make fun of me and because they probably have many of these, but I've never killed or never harvested a banded Drake mallard.

[David Fabian]

Oh, really?

[Max]

So, yeah, it's going to be abandoned Drake mallard retrieved by my dog.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Max]

My dog has retrieved like three or four of them, but me personally, I've never shot one. Yeah, I've shot banded Canada geese, pintail, teal, gadwall, snow geese, but never abandoned Drake mallard.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Corey]

I've only killed like five ducks in my life and I've killed one.

[Mark Kenyon]

Really?

[Corey]

Really?

[Max]

Oh my goodness.

[Corey]

Not bragging.

[Spencer]

I've killed one banded bird. It was speckle belly goose.

[David Fabian]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Came in a pair in December.

[Max]

But yeah, for the amount of mallards that I tend to harvest, I'm just waiting on the day.

[Spencer]

Where, where on the continent would you go to get that? Because there's dudes who will like, they know that this refuge bans this time of year. So if they go there, they can, you know, have higher odds. Where would you try to do it at?

[Max]

I mean, I know there's a lot of banded down in Arkansas, like in the flooded timber, but I necessarily don't want to go somewhere where it's like.

[Spencer]

You want to be organic.

[Max]

Yeah, oh, for sure. Like where we are around Bozeman, we see a lot of birds from Alberta, some Saskatchewan birds, and they do a lot of banding up there, a lot of banding projects. And one of these days Ruby's going to come back with something shiny on that orange leg. So hopefully it's this year maybe.

[Spencer]

All right, last one. Wally Bloomer. He says, Phil, Destiny 2 Star wars expansion, question mark. I don't know what that means. What's he asking, Phil?

[Phil]

Destiny 2 is a video game. There's a sequel to the game Destiny, if you can put that together. It's a multiplayer online shooter from the same team who made the first three Halo games. So Bungie based out of Bellevue, Washington. And so it feels a lot like Halo. Feels great. No one makes their art direction is unparalleled. I put over 1500 hours into this game. But let's see. Wally Bloomer. I haven't touched Destiny since the final Shape, which for everyone else was the last big expansion, downloadable content expansion. But I think I said it before I had to quit at cold turkey. I was just wasting too much time playing that game. And to be honest, Wally, I didn't even know that there was a Star wars tinged expansion until I read this question. That is how checked out I am from the Destiny community, which didn't used to be the case, but yeah. So just for 15 more seconds of detail. The reason you waste so much time playing these games is because it's a massive multiplayer online game. So you play with a bunch of people, and it's like a looter shooter as well. So you're always trying to make your number go up. You get a gun, and then that gun helps you fight stronger monsters. And then you get an even stronger gun, and that gun helps you fight stronger monsters. And you watch your number tick up, and it's just that sort of serotonin hit.

[Spencer]

Okay. Just learning about the Star wars make you more interested, though, or you still just know?

[Phil]

Not at all. No, no, I'm done. I'm done. Forever, Wally. Sorry.

[Spencer]

All right, our next segment is top threes.

[Phil]

Oh, I'm going to fire this up now.

[Spencer]

All three.

[Phil]

That was not the right note.

[Spencer]

All right, each one of us has dtone death a different top three list today. Corey, start us out. What is your top three relist?

[David Fabian]

Oh, boy.

[Corey]

Well, we're kind of wrapping up 2025. Not officially yet, obviously, but makes me always kind of reminisce the year. So I'm doing my, in no particular order necessarily, my top three outdoor adventures.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Corey]

2025.

[Spencer]

All right.

[Corey]

See what Phil brings up.

[Max]

I can't wait to see this.

[Phil]

Let me get rid of this banner.

[Corey]

Okay. Yeah. So in April, Corinne and I went down to west Texas to hunt odd at and had a successful hunt. Harvested you and a ram. But that was like a blur just compared to the. The adventure down there. Montana. Boy, this is only the second time I've hunted in another state. First time I was just guiding, so I hadn't.

[Spencer]

Where was that at?

[Corey]

Colorado. My first season guiding, so this just being invited was phenomenal. And then being able to explore this super rugged, dry, arid country of West Texas. We were staring into Mexico the whole time. It was only in the 70s, but it was so dry that it felt so much hotter.

[Spencer]

Not a cloud in the sky. No shade to get under.

[Corey]

No shade. The wind was, like, really nasty, especially in that shot there up on the side of a mountain. Got to eat some odd ad fresh over the fire, which was pretty cool. Just the whole experience was. Was awesome.

[Spencer]

Where's that skull at now?

[Corey]

Hanging in my house as soon as you walk up the stairs.

[Max]

Is that. Is that a bowl a buck Ram Ram. Yeah.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Max]

I was trying to think of another.

[Corey]

One, but, yeah, they're more on the sheep side of things.

[David Fabian]

Cool.

[Corey]

Yeah, so that was good. Adventure number Three. Yeah. Pretty awesome adventure. Let's see. Number two would have been. My wife and son and I did a lot of camp floating. We like to take the drift boat out onto one of our freestone rivers and camp on public land, either on an island or off the. Off a beach just off the side. Side of a. Of a river. Typically, we hit the Yellowstone river, which is a nice short drive here from Bozeman, but love to take the boat out for one or two days, one or two nights if possible, and figure out what sort of adventures we can go on. There's a shot of my kid jumping off the front of the boat, super nonchalant. We either go by ourselves or with another family. But it's fun. Fish all day, pull into beach wherever you want.

[Spencer]

I bet you find some agates and petrified wood.

[Corey]

Yeah, lots. Lots of petrified wood. Still don't quite have the eye for it, but even though I have found the.

[Mark Kenyon]

The.

[Corey]

One of the biggest pieces, the biggest.

[Spencer]

Agate I've ever seen.

[Max]

You're multitasking in that photo.

[Corey]

Yeah. There I am rowing the boat with a boat full of gear, firewood, a dog and two kids in the front that were kicking, splashing the water, churning up all the fish. But I didn't catch anything. But I had to try.

[Max]

Isn't that called the San Juan Shuffle?

[Corey]

Yeah, that's when they actually kick up the rocks. Yeah. Yeah. So close. But so just the family float trips in the summer. Looking forward to that again next year.

[Spencer]

What is the San Juan Shuffle?

[Max]

It's basically like you walk and you're kicking up all this dirt and I don't know.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Like, if you're fishing a hole, it's a beneficial thing.

[Corey]

Yeah. You're kicking up a lot of bugs higher up in the stream, and they come down and they can chum up the fish, if you will. It sometimes works. Other times, I feel like any movement can put the fish down to them. Yeah.

[Spencer]

So I like that name. I. There's a driving maneuver I refer to as the Chicago Sweep. It's where you cross multiple lanes at once. Say you're like four lanes, and you got to get from lane one to lane.

[Mark Kenyon]

Sure.

[Corey]

That's really been there.

[Spencer]

Sure. Yeah, it's the Chicago Sweep. And I wondered one time, I was like, did I come up with that or did I hear someone say it? So I googled Chicago Sweep, and I couldn't find it anywhere online. So maybe I made it up.

[Phil]

Let's.

[Spencer]

Let's make it a thing, though.

[Phil]

That is universe.

[Spencer]

That's a Chicago sweet move.

[Max]

But you remember you might get pulled over doing it.

[Spencer]

Sure.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Not in Chicago. That's like, you know, that's. That's driving up there pretty normal. Chicago suite. Multiple lanes at once.

[Corey]

Four or five lanes.

[Spencer]

All right, number one. Corey adventure of 2025, number one.

[Corey]

Took my wife and son to my favorite place in the world. And I'm not going to tell anybody where it's at. It's right on the edge of a wilderness here in Montana. But really cool spot. Took my son and my wife up there, Went up this tiny little creek to go look for some fish, and lo and behold, we caught a giant west slope cutthroat. My boy caught that, which was really exciting. Just he was finally old enough where I could take him on the journey, which just getting there, obviously is very difficult.

[Spencer]

And he caught it.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Did you hook it and then hand him the rod or. He did everything.

[Corey]

No, he did everything.

[Spencer]

Hell yeah.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Corey]

The dog. Yep. Caddis. The dog got in the way. Had to wrangle the dog and pull him out of the way. But, uh, yeah, super fun. Just super remote. Hard to get to spot. And I've been waiting since the day he was born to take him back there.

[Spencer]

So a fish that big on a dry fly would spook me a little. It had to really spook Marshall.

[Corey]

Yeah, he didn't want to. You could see he didn't want to touch it in the photo. Yeah, he's hesitant, but that's great. No, super fun. That won't be the last time up there.

[Spencer]

Good. 2025 Adventures for Corey. All right, Max, what's your top three?

[Max]

Oh, I got top three duck hunting accessories.

[Spencer]

Yeah.

[Max]

For starters, I'll start without. Start with these decoys. I'm a big fan of a jerk rig.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Max]

A jerk rig consists of a weight, a little bungee, and a line of decoys. So basically, you can imagine I put this weight out, I have this line come all the way back to me, and it's exactly what it says. You jerk it, you. It produces water motion. Water motion goes a long ways. I would use this 10 times more than I would ever use a spinner. It's natural. Ducks do it. Ducks produce so much water motion that people overlook. And especially if you're hunting like a pond or something, it's super important to.

[Spencer]

Have some kind of water only on a calm day. What if they were like, you know, seven mile an hour wind and you had some small waves?

[Max]

It helps for sure, because a lot of times too. And People will do this in the south, too, hunting the timber. They'll just rip on the jerk cord. And the splashing sound attracts ducks, too. It helps. So, yeah, that's my number one. I bring this with me almost every time I go duck hunting. For sure. Number two, I think I have a photo. Which one is it going to be? Oh, game tote. I also brought this with me, too.

[Spencer]

Beautiful piece of gear.

[Max]

Yeah, it's a beautiful piece of gear. It helps you keep your ducks in a row. Just easy hang. Hang the duck by the foot or the head. And a big reason why I like this is in waterfall hunting, you got to keep your ducks separate. Like, you got to claim your ducks. And it helps you keep. You keep. Keeps you legal. Sure. So, like, Corey and I went out. Oh, Corey would be this side. I would be this side.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Max]

So, yeah, that's a thing I bring with me every single time.

[Spencer]

And it's a nice picture.

[Max]

Yeah, it helps with good photos, too. So, yeah, that was a couple weeks ago. Limited mallard, so. Very good. Yeah, just. You don't need it, but I like it.

[Spencer]

What does that one run? You think?

[Max]

This one's probably 100 bucks.

[I]

It's.

[Spencer]

It's one you're gonna have for the rest of your life.

[Max]

Yeah, it's custom. Has Ruby's name on it.

[Spencer]

Oh, very good.

[Max]

Yeah, so, yeah, once Ruby goes, I'll retire this one and then get another one for the next dog, so.

[David Fabian]

All right.

[Spencer]

Number three, Waterfowl accessory, number three.

[Max]

I kind of touched on this earlier. A neck gator. This one's from first light. 40 bucks. But like I was saying earlier, keeps you warm, keeps the wind off you, and also helps conceal you a little bit. So, yeah, every time there's. It's cold out, I'm wearing this guy, so get a little fleece in this side there. But, yeah, that's my top three.

[Spencer]

And you don't realize how warm it's keeping you until you might take it off.

[Max]

Oh, yeah, just. Just a little wind on the neck is, like, brutal. So that's my top three.

[Spencer]

All right, I'm going next. I've got my top three, three favorite fishing lures of all time. Phil has photos of them. Number three is the Johnson Beetle Spin. This is my favorite lure in the world for catching panfish. My best days of crappie fishing, bluegill fishing are thanks to a yellow beetle spin just like that one there. Easy to cast, rarely get snagged. You can run them at any depth. One of the last remaining lures you can buy that's under $3 a piece. Non, non. Pan fish. Like them too. I've caught some good bass on beetle spins. One day in college while I was fishing kayak, I hooked into a giant flathead fishing for bluegill that ate a beetle spin. I think he was probably like 20 pounds. I fought him for like 15 minutes on my ultralight setup. Got him to the edge of the kayak a handful of times. Eventually he broke me off on like my third attempt to. To grab him, and he broke my heart. It would have been one of my greatest catches of all time. Flathead on a beetle spin from the kayak.

[Max]

That's cool.

[Spencer]

Anyway, I love the Johnson beetle spin. So does the Freshwater fishing hall of fame. They named it their number 13 best lure of all. But for me, it's number three, the Johnson Beetle spin.

[Max]

I'm excited to see what. What is two and one.

[Spencer]

Number two is the Rapala shad wrap. If I could only fish with one crankbait the rest of my life, it would be a number five shad ramp in Fire Tiger. Just like that one there. It'll catch any game fish. Bass, walleye, pike. You can size it down for panfish and trout. Size it up for musky and stripers. It's, it's a real do it all lure. You control them, you can cast and retrieve. Good for fishing 5 to 10ft of water, which is where I find myself most times. Also love the Shad wraps Broken cousin, the jointed Shad wrap. Those give you even more wobble. They're not quite as easy to tune as the OG Shadrap. And I would bet that I own 40 or 50 of the the jointed Shad wraps and the Shad wraps.

[Max]

Not all in Fire Tiger.

[Spencer]

Not all in Fire Tiger.

[Max]

Just wanted to make sure.

[Spencer]

Make sure I bet Fire Tiger is. Is not even top five because that's what I use so often and lose so often. So it's, it's my favorite. But I think I have colors I've recognized that just should be retired because I'm never going to grab that purple blue thing or whatever I have. All right, number one is the strike King KVD Sexy Frog. Nothing in fishing brings me greater joy than a top water bass bite. And although I love like the Scum frog and the Zoom Horny Toad, my absolute favorite is the KVD Sexy Frog. Kevin Van Dam. He's the greatest bass angler ever. He's made my favorite lure ever. The Sexy frog is totally weedless. You can cast that thing a mile it has an internal rattle, which not all frogs do. So it has some added sound. Great action. You can twitch it. You do a fast retrieve. They have 17 colors. Now. I like the classic leopard frog, which is what that pattern is because most places I fish in the north, the most common frog is a leopard frog. And here's a hot tip. Take a scissors and cut off like a half inch of that hula skirt legs. And then also add a trailer hook. You'll get better hook sets that way. Throw it on a calm cloudy day for best results. That's the. The Strike King KVD Sexy frog. My number one favorite lure.

[Max]

I feel like I was editing a Tony Peterson episode one time and I felt like he liked a calm sunny day because it produces like a shadow.

[Spencer]

Sure.

[Max]

Up top.

[Spencer]

I think you talk to 10 anglers that tell you 10 different things. I like cloud and calm. Then I've got a few honorable mention mentions. The eagle Claw crappie rig. Crappie rigs get a bad rap for being like the, the lure you associate with kids and beginner anglers. But that's stupid. Everyone should embrace the crappie rig. They're cool. You bait them with worms or minnows. To catch any fish in North America. Fish it under a bobber. Fish it on the bottom. Doesn't take any technique at all. They're the perfect lure for using while drinking a beer.

[Mark Kenyon]

That's.

[Spencer]

That's a crappie rig. The Mr. Twister curly tail. They make the OG curly tail grub. You won't find anyone that'll tell you it's like the best soft plastic for bass or walleye or anything. But just like as an all around lure, you can't beat a Mr. Twister. Good for pan fish and game fish. Paired with the VMC Jig head. That's my favorite jig head. They'll catch anything. And then the Little Stinker Dip Bait worms. If you love catching three pound channel cats in slow moving water, which I do, then you can't beat stink bait. My favorite vessel for Sunny's stink bait, that's my favorite stink bait is the Little Stinker dip worm. They make it real easy to set the hook with that impregnated treble hook. I've caught more catfish, I think on that pairing of the Little Stinkers worms and Sunny stink bait than anything else. Those are my honorable mentions.

[Max]

Very cool.

[Spencer]

All right, Phil, what's your top three?

[Phil]

Okay, well, I ran into some technical difficulties this morning editing a meat eater podcast, so I had to pull a Ryan Callahan and just look around my office. So we have my top three tiki mugs that were in my office.

[Spencer]

How many did you have in there?

[Phil]

Well, I've got like 20, but I brought. Wow.

[David Fabian]

All right.

[Phil]

I brought down five.

[Spencer]

There were some real tough honorable mentions.

[Phil]

The first one is this Kuhiko mug that I got at Smuggler's Cove in San Francisco. That's cool. This is the mug that is pictured on the COVID of the Smuggler's Cove tiki book, which is kind of like the modern day bible of tiki stuff. And it got a new matte glaze and it just. It looks real, real pretty. It's a little guy. He's covered in like barnacles and old nets and some coral and stuff.

[Spencer]

Have you ever used that in your office?

[Phil]

I don't use these. Sometimes I'll take one home on the weekend if I feel like making a tiki drink. It's few and far between right now. Number two is this one I actually found at an antique store here in Bozeman. And so it's not that flashy, but I saw it and I was curious. It says Harvey's Lake Tahoe on it.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Cool.

[Phil]

So I looked it up and it was an old tiki restaurant tiki bar that was at the top of a hotel in Tahoe that was very short lived and apparently wasn't very good. But the hotel has a lot of history because some guy who was in debt over a million dollars at the casino put a bomb in a copier and to try to extort the hotel and the FBI caught wind and detonated the bomb. Nobody was hurt, but I mean, it blew up like the first three stories of the hotel caused like $20 million in damages.

[Spencer]

That's good.

[Phil]

Here's a relic from there.

[Spencer]

Good stuff.

[Phil]

And then my favorite was one that I got at a bar called Woosong Road in Cambridge, Massachusetts, just right outside Harvard Square. And this is, if you've seen the film Spirited Away, this is the radish spirit who works in the bathhouse. And I just think it's a great. I mean, it's gorgeous. Wonderful design. He's wearing a little kind of like cherry blossom Japanese shirt, tiki shirt. His hat comes off like a cookie jar. And it's also just a really cool tiki bar as well. It's got kind of like this pulp comic book theme. It's kind of hard to describe, but it was a nice little find there near Harvard.

[Spencer]

Have you drank anything out of that tiki mug?

[Phil]

Once? Yeah. Most of these tiki mugs I've had one drink out of and then I bring them to my office. And then sometimes I'll bring them home for a special occasion.

[David Fabian]

Okay.

[Spencer]

I thought you had a couple honorable.

[Phil]

Oh, yeah, I get some honorable mentions here too. This one is from. This one is from Galaxy's Edge, the Oga's Cantina in Disney World and Disneyland. This is sort of like classic. It tells the story of the Battle of Endor in kind of like a tribal artwork sort of thing, like as if it were designed by Ewoks. So, you know, you've got the AT ST there, C3PO and R2D2 are somewhere around here. Shows the Ewoks just absolutely, you know, doming some stormtroopers. That's a good one. And then I've got.

[Corey]

Surprised that didn't make top three.

[Phil]

Oh, there's so many to choose from. And then I've got this one which looks like an arcade cabinet made out of like driftwood. That was from Funhouse, which is like an old, like a video game comedy site that I used to enjoy a lot.

[Max]

Very unique.

[Spencer]

Jealous of that collection. That is fun. If you're not watching this on YouTube, you're missing out on a real visual treat. There's big tell.

[Corey]

There we are. Thank you.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

What a matchup we got, y'.

[Mark Kenyon]

All.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit chance echo drum beat, everybody showing that school pride. A game like this, yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there.

[Spencer]

Mmm.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And in ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[I]

So let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives. To change how you do business, let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Breaking news, everybody. Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible. The ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely.

[Corey]

Let me start by saying it's a.

[Spencer]

Great day to be a gray shirt team Rubicon. You know, it truly is a team Those folks, myself included, all had one desire, which is helping folks in disaster. Trying to be a little bit of hope in a really, really bad situation.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

It's like magic, you guys. So put down your doom scroller and pick up your faith in humanity and join me, Jenna, for the ripple effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. You really can.

[Spencer]

We give just that nugget of hope helping other people.

[Max]

For some of our gray shirts, it's.

[Spencer]

During a time when they need help and by helping others, it helps them.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Listen to the ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Spencer]

All right, joining us on the line last is Wired Hunt host Mark Kenyon. He's here with a top five list of his own. Mark, welcome to the show.

[Mark Kenyon]

Hey, guys, I'm just kind of in. In shock of Phil's collection there. Quite the. Quite the thing to try to follow up.

[Phil]

Yeah, good luck.

[Spencer]

What makes Phil Phil real, real quick, Mark, give us a deer movement update for where you're at for Michigan these last 30 days of your doe season.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, well, we're coming off of a really great cold and snowy spell for much of the country, really the late season weather that you want. So we're all, we're coming off of this hive. Unfortunately, at the very end of the year, we're actually getting the opposite, which is a warm up, which is not as encouraging. We have warmer weather coming in here into the upper Midwest, some rain. We're going to miss out on the white Christmas they thought we were gonna have. And all that's probably gonna lead to a little bit slower deer movement than we've had over the last couple weeks during this kind of Arctic spell. So not exactly what you want, but with the warmer temperatures, you're probably gonna see deer moving off of the grains like corn or soybeans and moving more towards greener forage. Native browse, green food plots, winter wheat fields, that kind of stuff. So super fast update, but that's what's coming down the line.

[Spencer]

All right, good info. Now, it's almost the off season, and a great burning for deer in the off season is by reading. And I don't know anyone who has read more books about whitetails than you. So today I want you to give us your top five list of best books for whitetail hunters. Let's start with number five. What do you have for us, Mark?

[Mark Kenyon]

First off, I'd like to say that I plan on using that bio line That I just saw below. Whitetail Enjoyer. That's gonna be my new title.

[Max]

Maybe not expert, but Enjoyer.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah, Enjoyer. Pretty accurate. Number one. Or is number five in your case will be Mapping Trophy Bucks by Brad Herndon. If you're watching here it is. This is a foundational text within the whitetail world from like a tactical perspective. This is basically the first and I think kind of the that that most established resource on understanding topography and terrain for deer hunting. So how hills and ridges and saddles and points and inside corners of fields and all that kind of stuff can actually lead to deer moving in different kind of ways and how you can take advantage of that as a hunter. And this uses maps. It really teaches how to use maps and topography to. To predict deer movement. So really kind of foundational how to book in the whitetail world.

[Spencer]

It's got kind of a textbook look to it.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yes, yes, it does. There's lots of illustrations. You can see, like very helpful actual diagrams and stuff. So if you're trying to get better deer hunting, this is like a must have book. It's hard to find, though, I think now is what I've heard.

[Spencer]

Okay, that looks like one. If you're not interested in a whole bunch of text and reading, you could just flip through and enjoy the visuals and learn stuff that way. All right, number four, Mark.

[Mark Kenyon]

Number four. This is for those of you who do want to do a lot of reading. And this is not tactical or strategic or how to at all. This is a book called A Hunter's Heart, Honest Essays on Bloodsport. This is a collection of essays edited and collected by David Peterson. This is going to be getting to the why we hunt not just deer, but anything and how we go about it. So there are just some amazing short essays in this collection that talk about whitetails and a whole bunch of other stuff and really gets kind of into that deeper, you know, philosophical side of things. One of the best hunting essays of all time, in my opinion is in here. It's called the Heart of the game by Thomas McGuain. It's a legendary piece. Highly, highly recommend for all whitetail hunters and hunters of all kinds.

[Spencer]

All right, we are now to the top three. What do you have for us next?

[Mark Kenyon]

Next is Whitetail Nation, and this is by a guy named Pete Bodo. This is an under the radar book. I don't think a lot of people know about it. It came out, I don't know, maybe 15, 20 years ago. And it's a really interesting story about this guy's Kind of exploration and journey as he went from kind of being a standard everyday deer hunter to finally trying to kill that first big buck. Kind of the thing that you read about over the whole course of your life is someday getting that big trophy buck. Well, he decided to document that journey as he went from kind of where he was to going to that next level. And all along the way traveled across the country, was in hunting in Pennsylvania, New York, Texas, Montana. And then through it all really ends up doing a really interesting kind of. I don't know if it's an analysis, but he. He documents the culture of deer hunting. He documents the history of deer hunting and does it in a really compelling way. This is like a real writer. He wrote for Gray Sporting Journal and the New York Times and all that. So it's a really well articulated, interesting story that has that kind of narrative, non fiction set of lessons you can learn throughout too. So really good one. Not a lot of people know about this one, but I highly recommend it.

[Spencer]

And a very pretty book. Mark, you seem like a Dusk dust jacket guy. Do you always keep those on your books?

[Mark Kenyon]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Mark Kenyon]

I couldn't. My wife removes them. I kind of feel like that's sacrilege. It's. There's a lot of time and energy that goes into designing these book covers and packaging them right. So I would never take that off.

[Spencer]

I get rid of them right away. I feel like I'm reading a book from the library if it has the dust jacket on it. Interesting. All right, number two, Marcus, what do you have?

[Mark Kenyon]

Number two. This is a tactics book. This is a how to. This is my favorite how to book. It's called Whitetail Access and it's a funny story. The title and the subtitle, which is how to Hunt Top Whitetail States cheaply and effectively. It's actually not really that kind of book.

[Spencer]

It was.

[Mark Kenyon]

It's a story that I heard from the author that was kind of like, the publishers want to try to make this seem more like a very clear how to book. And so they packaged it with this title that they thought would get people to buy it. But really what it is is a story. It's the story of Chris Eberhardt's Season in which he lived out of his minivan, traveling across the country hunting deer DIY on the cheap from Michigan to North Dakota, Missouri, Ohio, maybe somewhere else. But the Eberhardts, Chris Eberhardt and Johnny Berhart, his dad, are kind of, you know, OG Whitetail hunters. They've really, unfortunately Chris passed away, which is. Which is really sad. But his dad is still one of the legends in the whitetail world. That's taught me and thousands of others a lot about how to effectively hunt whitetails and heavily pressured states. And so this story is all about that season, but then throughout it, he's got very detailed notes about how he did what he did, his strategies, his perspectives, his plans. There's diagrams and maps in here again, too. So kind of similar to the other book. You can actually see where his stand setups were and follow along with all the hunts and the tactics. So a really good how to mixed with a story. So that's why it's probably my favorite recommendation for people who want to learn, but also enjoy the story along the way.

[Spencer]

All right, here's a recap so far. Number five was mapping whitetail bucks. Number four was a hunter's heart. Number three, whitetail nation. Number two, whitetail Access. What is number one?

[Mark Kenyon]

It's kind of cliche. The number one book that all whitetail hunters and every hunter in the world should read is A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold. Probably anyone listening to Meteor or Meteor Radio live knows this book, but if not, highly recommend it. It is, I think, kind of like the, I don't know, like the equivalent of the Bible for people who are into hunting and fish and wildlife and conservation, anything. It's like a foundational text. It's the thing that kind of sums up how we can think about ourselves as stewards, as wildlife managers. There's great essays in here and thoughts on, you know, how to be a hunter and connect with wildlife, wilderness, the importance of a land ethic. You've heard it come up a thousand times from Steve and Doug Dern and so many others, and it's for good reason. The opening text here, the opening line here is, there are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. These essays are the delights and dilemmas of one who cannot. I think that sums it up really well. If you care about wildlife and wild things, this is a book that just has to be on your bookshelf.

[Spencer]

Okay, good stuff, Mark. Thank you for the list. I'm going to pick up some of those this off season. I wrote them all down. And good luck on the rest of your season there in Michigan. Thanks for joining us.

[Mark Kenyon]

Thanks, buddy.

[David Fabian]

Merry Christmas, Mark.

[Corey]

Yeah, Merry Christmas, you guys, too.

[Max]

Tell the family. Hi.

[David Fabian]

Right back at you.

[Spencer]

All right, that brings us to the end of the show. We have some more Q and A to wrap this up here are some questions listeners submitted last week. First one is From Field of Dreams. 73 1. What types of wine do y' all pair with Wild Game? I don't have a great answer for this, but when I'm cooking, like, a big meal for Thanksgiving or Christmas, and it's got courses and wild game and my. My wife is really trying to, like, put on the Ritz. She will go ask Chat GPT. She'll tell it exactly what we're having in what order and what the meat is and where it came from, and then that spits out some recommendations. So that's the best thing I can tell you. Do you guys have any thoughts on wine and wild game?

[Max]

Red wine.

[Spencer]

Or white wine?

[Max]

I'm not a big red, white, or just not a big wine guy in general.

[Corey]

So I married a wino. My wife loves wine, whether it pears or not, and she's got me hooked on Malbecs, which is an Argentinian wine. Real dark, bold, fruity flavors, which pairs very well with nice red meat especially. But I'm a big fan of the boxed wine.

[Spencer]

There you go. Phil, any input on wine and meat?

[Phil]

Yeah, I'm not a big. I'm not a big wine guy. Sorry.

[Spencer]

If you're interested in beer pairings, we have two articles on the meat eater.com for you. The first one is from chef Justin Townsend, how to pair beer with wild game. And then the other one is from Kubi Brown, how to pair beer with fish. We can help you out on that front again for wine. I. I think Chat GPT does a really nice job if you tell it exactly what you got going on.

[Max]

Yeah, we're not. We're not wine people here, I guess.

[Spencer]

The next question is. CJ rope key 21. What is the best wild game Phil has eaten since working at Meat Eater?

[Corey]

Great question.

[Phil]

I think I've talked about this before, but the best bite of wild game I've ever had was at the old office probably five, four years ago. Brody brought in some elk tenderloin. And then Michael Hunter, who's the chef at Antler in Toronto, Canada, who's been on the podcast a couple times and done some stuff with us. He just had a little, just, like, induction burner, and just like, seemingly without even thinking about it, just made, like, a huckleberry demi glaze and cooked this elk just perfectly. And it just, like it felt like it melted in my mouth. It was the best tasting meat I've ever had in my life.

[Spencer]

We did not have much of a kitchen at the OG Office?

[Phil]

No, it was non existent. Yeah.

[Spencer]

Jeremiah Donahue says if you could ask Santa for one piece of outdoor gear, what would it be? Corey.

[Corey]

Man, I've been on the hunt for a good wall tent. I'd love a Montana canvas wall tent. We're shooting for the stars here.

[Spencer]

Hard to fit under the tree.

[Corey]

It is, yeah. Well wrapped up, maybe.

[Spencer]

Sure.

[Corey]

12 by 12 wall tent.

[Max]

Okay.

[Spencer]

With, with or without a floor? They.

[Corey]

Without.

[Spencer]

Without a floor, yeah. Okay. They're always without a floor From Montana.

[Corey]

You can get them with floors.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yep.

[Spencer]

All right.

[Corey]

Yep. With frame. Maybe a stove, too, since we're at it.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[David Fabian]

Yeah.

[Max]

Tell Santa, look at Facebook Marketplace. Yeah, I've seen a lot of good.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yep.

[Corey]

Okay.

[Max]

I was so close to pulling the trigger, but I didn't.

[Corey]

I'll see Santa this weekend.

[Max]

He's.

[Spencer]

He's listening. Max, what are you asking Santa for?

[Max]

Oh, I got two ideas. More decoys. Yep. Never have enough. Or there's this duck plucker out there called the foul plucker. Yeah, my thumbs are pretty strong, but they get tired a little bit.

[Spencer]

So how many ducks do you think you have to kill a year to justify having one of those?

[Max]

They're pretty spendy, to be honest.

[Spencer]

Put a number on it. Like 50 ducks a year, 200 ducks a year.

[Max]

I don't know. I feel like in order to, like, for, like, guides and outfitters, it would be a no brainer.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Max]

For. For like a personal. If you got a hunt with a lot of friends, I would probably say like a couple hundred.

[David Fabian]

Oh, wow.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Do they have any other purpose? Like, could. Could they function with a pheasant?

[Max]

No.

[Spencer]

No.

[Max]

I mean, not in my experience.

[Spencer]

Right off there.

[Max]

Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, those are two things that I would love is more decoys or a duck blocker. So, Santa, if you're listening.

[Corey]

Oh, you know, listening.

[Spencer]

I'm good on gear, Santa. I just want permissions. Just give me land.

[Max]

Yeah, that's another good one.

[Spencer]

Just a lot of land, Santa. That's all I need.

[Corey]

That's really hard to put under the tree.

[Spencer]

Deeds are pretty small.

[Corey]

They could fit.

[David Fabian]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Through her phone call.

[Spencer]

Next question is from Will Sanchez. He says favorite state for fossil rock hunting. There are great rocks and fossils across the whole continent, but the main thing is being legal, Will. So BLM has the loosest restrictions when it comes to where you can collect what you can collect, how you collect, as far as, you know, picking up a shovel and digging a hole. So any state that has a lot of BLM land Which is, you know, mostly in the west. Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming. Those are my favorite states for fossil and rock hunting. Just because you can do it legally.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

The next one is from Doug Chiesn. Are there any hunting video games Phil likes?

[Phil]

The short answer is no. And that's not because I don't think they exist. I just haven't really tried a whole lot. I've tried the Hunter Call of the Wild, which I think is probably the biggest one. Maybe people might yell at me for that, but they've been making, putting out expansion packs for that game for years now. And I played it for like about an hour and a half a year or two ago and I just couldn't get into it. It seemed like there were a lot of systems that I just needed to get familiar with. So it was kind of like a steep, a steep learning curve. But there is a game coming out called Cast and Chill which came out on Steam, which is like a PC marketplace, a few months ago. But as of the recording, it's coming out on the Nintendo Switch 2 tomorrow. And I put it on my wish list just a couple days ago. And it looks fun. It just seems like a very laid back, kind of gorgeous looking like pixel art fishing game. But it looks pretty dense, like you can go to it. There's a whole, whole ton of fish to catch. Did different bait to do different seasons and stuff. So I'm excited to try. Maybe I'll stream it. Maybe I'll stream it.

[Spencer]

He's going to play that over Christmas break.

[Corey]

I will.

[Mark Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

Someone in a future live chat needs to ask Phil for his review so we can all find out together.

[Phil]

And let me know if there are any hunting games that I should, I should get into. I don't want anything too realistic. Like if it's kind of like an arcade element to it, like that's more fun than hardcore realistic.

[Spencer]

Another video game question for Phil. This is from Fro Alex. Ask Phil if he ever played Runescape back in the day or. He still plays.

[Phil]

I did play runescape. Speaking of MMOs that we talked about with Destiny. This is a massive multiplayer online. So it's like a big, you know, you get on a server and there's thousands of people that are all in the same playing in the same area and you can, you know, squad up and take on dungeons and fight, you know, go on quests and stuff. Runescape was one of the, was one of the OGs. I played it a little bit. That was my, my brother was way more into it than me. My big MMO was called Ragnarok Online, which was a 2D pixel art one. But then I also played World of Warcraft a lot back I was, I was playing WoW from the ground floor, like 2004, like right, right when it launched.

[Spencer]

Do people still play Runescape?

[David Fabian]

Oh yeah.

[Phil]

It's got a very active community. But again, that's like a blind spot for me because once you have kids and a job, MMOs aren't the healthiest thing for you or your family. Which is why I stopped playing Destiny.

[Spencer]

Last question today is from Casey Jacobson 23. What's your plan when out of state deer hunting in previously unexplored areas? I'll answer that on behalf of deer and then Max is going to answer about waterfowl and Corey for elk. My, my plan when hunting in an unexplored place for deer, the first thing I'll look for is food. And that doesn't matter if I'm hunting in Idaho in October or Illinois in December, which is, you know what my, my spectrum this year, that was my first hunt, my last hunt. That's the easiest thing I can find on Onx. And then when I'm there in person, I can work my way backwards. If this is where the deer are feeding, it's very easy to, you know, put together where they're probably bedding at and, and traveling to get from point A to point B. So look, look for food. For me, a lot of times that is probably big agriculture. I spend most of my time hunting between the Rocky Mountains and the Mississippi River. So I care about where the alfalfa is, where the cornfields are, what point in the harvest it is, and if there's no ag around what, what acorn trees there might be. Onx does a great job of allowing you to sort by the crop coverage that you can see if was was this field last year corn? Was it alfalfa, Was it hay? Was it sor. So starting there, thinking about what deer would like in that area, that that'll give you a big piece of the puzzle.

[David Fabian]

That's great.

[Spencer]

Max, answer for waterfowl.

[Max]

Well, I'm going to kind of go the opposite of you. My first thing is water.

[Spencer]

Okay.

[Max]

Not only the lakes, rivers, streams, but I have a big obsession with keeping up with current weather and rain forecast. So there's different areas that get a bunch of rain and two months later that rain is still going to almost be there as in forms of flooded fields, flooded agriculture, you name it. So there is this spot that I went up To Saskatchewan this last September, where they got 8 inches of rain a month ago before I hunted and I went there, put a pin on. On the map and I went there and there was just so many docks.

[Spencer]

And you can DIY waterfowl in Saskatchewan.

[Max]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Spencer]

Sons of need to let deer hunters do that.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Spencer]

They make you have a guide or a buddy or whatever.

[Max]

Yeah. So I went up there and hunted flooded fields for three days, and it was just incredible. So, yeah, look for water. And then another big thing, too is like if I. If I'm going to a general area, I will go and make a list of landowners, names and phone numbers in case there's ducks there.

[Spencer]

There you go.

[Max]

Or in case there's waterfall they're feeding in their fields or just using their water. Because it's going to be a lot easier to just already have their names and phone numbers already on a list than spending the time looking it up. Oh, there's their house kind of thing. So I do all that stuff. And ahead of time.

[Spencer]

Yeah, I think to piggyback off that, going back to deer, I think it's really important to have a plan A, B, C, D, E, F, G. A lot of times I go in thinking that it's going to happen for me at plan A or B and it ends up being like my fifth or sixth option where. Where I actually, you know, find the deer that I. That I want to hunt. All right, Corey, previously unexplored areas. When it comes to elk, what are you looking for?

[Corey]

Yeah, for elk. I mean, time, like length, time of your hunt is everything. So if you can add any time to actually physically scouting e. Scouting is great, but you're never going to know exactly what the country's like, how long it takes you to get to a spot unless you're physically on the ground. So if you can add a couple days, whether it's like opening day or you got a, you know, weekend even, that you're just hunting a new area. If you can get out there in the summer, late fall or early fall, late summer, and get boots on the ground and physically see the country, you're going to just have a massive leg up when you're. When you discover elk in that part of the world. And elk are going to be everywhere. Right. Like, they need the same things deer need and. And ducks. But then they're going to be everywhere on top. Like, they're everywhere and they're nowhere at the same time. So you can either stick to one spot and hopefully they'll move in or keep roaming around. But adding just a day if you can, or a couple days to your, you know, days that you're committed to hunting is massive. Just to see the country get a feel for it. And then if it, you know, doesn't work out in your mind as to how good it's going to be, then you can go to plan B and move on to the next spot.

[Spencer]

So good advice.

[Corey]

Add some time.

[Spencer]

All right, that brings us to the end of this episode. We have another pre recorded episode of Radio Live next week, but then it's back to our regularly scheduled programming after that. Thank you for listening. Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas.

[Max]

Merry Christmas, everyone.

[Spencer]

We'll see you in 2026. Bye now.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Here we have the Limu emu in.

[Spencer]

Its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating.

[Phil]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

[Spencer]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us.

[David Fabian]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very underwent by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

What a matchup we got, y'.

[Mark Kenyon]

All.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The babe is rocking and the crowd lit Chance echo drum beat everybody showing that school pride game like this. Yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Asheville fans, school colors everywhere and an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Spencer]

If a Lenovo computer for your business is on your holiday list, don't shop around. Just go directly to the source Lenovo.com it's your last chance to get exclusive.

[Mark Kenyon]

Deals on the PCs you want for.

[Spencer]

Your business like the ThinkPad X914 Aura Edition and Yoga 7i2 in one. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source lenovo.com where PCs are up to 35% off. That's lenovo.com.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Max]

Guaranteed Human.