The MeatEater Podcast

Episode 814: Photographing Wolf Kills, Underwater Beavers, and Other Impossible Shots
Host: Steven Rinella
Guest: Ronan Donovan
Release Date: December 29, 2025

Main Theme

This episode features renowned wildlife photographer Ronan Donovan, known for his breathtaking images of beavers under the ice, Arctic wolves, and chimpanzees. Host Steven Rinella and Ronan discuss the obsession, logistics, and ethics behind capturing images of elusive wildlife behaviors, and how immersive storytelling can drive conservation and deepen human-nature connections.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Ronan Donovan

• Background: Wildlife biologist turned conservation photographer; National Geographic explorer and fellow.
• Notable Projects: “Kingdom of the White Wolf” for Nat Geo, and iconic underwater photography of beavers.
• [03:32] "Do I got that right?" — Steven introduces Ronan and sets up the discussion around wildlife photography.

2. Underwater Beavers: Capturing the Impossible

• The Assignment: Capture beavers accessing their winter food cache beneath ice for a Nat Geo story on beaver ecology.
• Challenges: Took three winters to succeed due to murky water, timing, and beaver sensitivity to disturbance.
  • First winter: missed the window, ice was melting, water was filled with sediment ([07:57]-[09:09]).
  • Developed a live-feed system using GoPros and lights drilled through the ice ([09:43]-[13:49]).
  • Stakeouts were lengthy and punishing: "For the Beaver one, maybe like 16 hours, something like that." ([18:53]).
  • Safety: warns about weak ice over beaver runs leading to falls through the ice ([26:06]-[26:50]).
• Result: Only a handful of keeper images after 100+ hours on the ice.
  • [22:06] "Trying to show. Because every stick in this picture, the beaver’s placed. And the idea that they engineer the landscape so profoundly..."
  • Beaver adaptations, lodge construction, and winter survival explained.
• Notable Quote:
  • [15:00] Ronan: "Like, I love that image. It's the beaver with a stick in its mouth and a curved tail... But for people listening, it's just like a — you could just throw a whole bag of gravel and sand and mud into the frame and you can kind of see a beaver through it with the ice on top."
• See also: Safety discussion about thin ice over beaver runs ([26:06]); falling through the ice anecdotes ([29:03]).

3. From Troubled Youth to Biologist

• Background: Ronan shares his difficult youth: multiple felonies at 13, saved from juvie by outdoor wilderness therapy (Outward Bound–style program).
  • [30:00] "How bad? I got a couple felonies. Yeah. When I was 13."
• Transformation: Wilderness experiences set him on a new path; later studied business, then environmental science and wildlife biology ([40:53]).
• First field gig: Spotted owl surveys in Yosemite, sparking his love for wild, intact ecosystems ([41:07]-[44:05]).

4. Chimpanzee Behavior and Predation in Uganda

• Field Work: Lived a year in Uganda, documenting chimpanzee societies for research and Nat Geo ([44:45]-[51:03]).
• Behavioral Insights:
  • Chimps are territorial, social, and hunt in groups — sometimes as a coordinated pursuit.
  • Describes a graphic chimp hunt: "This picture is of a group of female chimps...tearing apart the remains of a red colobus monkey." ([46:41])
  • On observing chimps border patrolling quietly, hiding from humans:
    • [52:23] "And do the chimps hold tight when they're hiding?" Ronan: "Yep. They just watched. They knew what they were doing."
  • Chimp physical power: "Chimps, roughly, it's like five times our strength. Their bone density is roughly twice as dense." ([53:10]).
• Debates and Fascinations: Group muses on primate strength and violence, Phil's "big ape guy" segment is a lighthearted highlight ([61:25]).

5. Wolf Photography in the High Arctic

• Setting: Ellesmere Island, Canadian Arctic — a land that feels "stuck in time" ([75:17]).
• Behavior: Wolves here are unafraid and curious due to lack of human persecution; often approach photographers.
  • [77:08] "That's their main deal — they want to play keep away with you, like, straight up..."
  • Anecdote: A wolf stealing his $10k camera, leading to a chase—only “fun while you’re chasing.” ([78:05]).
• Logistics: Months-long expeditions, living and camping on the land, following wolves on ATVs for weeks at a time ([80:14]-[81:03]).
• Wolf-Hunt Observations:
  • Wolves’ muskox hunting: calculated, sometimes brutal ("doesn't feel good...anything that doesn't die quickly" – [88:33]).
  • Muskox defense: forming an unbreakable rosette; calves are preferred wolf targets ([91:13]).
  • Wolves’ rest: "Once they kill, it's basically hides in 12 hours... they chill for like 15 hours" ([92:32]).
  • Physical proximity: claims of being at arm's length from wolves at times ([93:24]).

6. Reflections on Conservation, Storytelling, and Animism

• Shifting Focus: Ronan is moving beyond collecting rare images to exploring how photos and stories can build connections between people and wild lands or animals, and promote conservation ([105:55]-[113:32]).
• Philosophy:
  • Emphasizes human health, sacredness of nature, and ceremony.
  • Encourages animism: “Animism is like a human right... ceremony is as well.” ([109:54])
  • Documents tribal projects reacquainting people with buffalo, ceremony, and wild places.
• Tension & Progress: Discussion on modernity, indigenous knowledge, and material culture vs. lost intangible traditions ([116:29]-[120:32]).
• Notable Quote:
  • Steven: "Oftentimes the way that it moves is... like a writer is going to do a thing, let’s find a photographer to go along with it. Do you have... the power where you could say, 'There’s an image I’d like to get — it’s so good you ought to find a writer'?" ([121:26])
  • Ronan: "Yeah, I mean, that happens. I don’t claim to be... of that prowess, but the Nat Geo stories, I’ll pitch something and then they’ll assign a writer..."

7. Wildlife Photography as Livelihood

• Economics:
  • Work is mainly assignment-based (Nat Geo Magazine, grants); “all-in” budgets may stretch over years ([96:58]-[97:32]).
  • Pressure to deliver: if images don’t pan out, future work suffers ([98:39]).
  • On impossible or misunderstood assignments: humorous anecdote about being sent to photograph “the man who swims with beavers”—which turned out to be an exaggeration ([101:03]-[103:20]).
• What’s Left to Capture?
  • Dream shot: “a mountain lion coming in from the tree, jumping on the back of a bull elk…” ([123:34])
  • Recently spotted a family of cougars near his home ([124:16]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Stubborn Image–Making:

  • "[It] took like three winters of trying." — Ronan ([08:01])
  • "How many hours you spent on the ice? ...Probably over a hundred." — Ronan ([25:29])

• On Chimps’ Strength and Violence:

  • "Their move is they dig... They glove you, they take your fingers off. And for men, they rip off your balls." — Ronan ([54:19])

• On Human & Wolf Domestication:

  • "I look behind me, [Graymane's] coming and the other wolves are coming behind him, and I realized... this is what we've done for a long time. This is how this would have started domestication." — Ronan ([84:02])

• On Conservation and Documenting Ceremony:

  • "Animism is like a human right. And I think ceremony is as well." — Ronan ([109:54])
  • "Hundreds of people show up. And it's like, that's it to me in a lot of ways." ([114:07])

• Fun Exchanges:

  • [61:25] Phil: "Big primate guy, big ape guy, big primate... I can show you tons of ape images on my phone."
  • [122:38] Phil: "You could take an 8th grade essay and attach it to that and somebody’d be like, this is the best thing I've ever read."

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Speakers | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------|------------------|------------| | Intro to Ronan Donovan | Steven, Ronan | 03:32 | | Beaver Challenge: Three Winters for a Shot | Ronan | 07:57-15:00| | Under-ice Stakeout, Beavers, Safety | Ronan, Steven | 18:45-26:50| | Ronan’s Troubled Youth, Wilderness Therapy | Steven, Ronan | 30:00-40:53| | Biologist Years, Yosemite, Early Photography | Ronan | 41:07-44:05| | Chimp Society & Predation in Uganda | Ronan | 44:45-51:03| | Chimp Power, Hunting, Primate Fascinations | Steven, Phil | 53:10-62:25| | Arctic Wolves, Stealing Cameras, Following Packs| Ronan, Steven | 75:17-86:22| | Wolf Hunts: Muskox Prey, Watching a Kill | Ronan, Steven | 88:03-93:00| | Economics of Wildlife Photography | Ronan, Steven | 96:58-98:56| | What’s the Dream Shot? Mountain Lion Kills | Ronan |123:34-124:16| | Philosophy: Animism, Ceremony, Reconnection | Ronan, Steven | 105:55-114:07|

Further Resources

• Ronan Donovan’s Work: ronandonovan.com
• Instagram: @ronan_donovan
• Traveling Museum Exhibit: "Wolves"—comparison of Yellowstone and Arctic wolves
• Recommended Books: "Braiding Sweetgrass" by Robin Wall Kimmerer, "Pretty Shield," "Eagle Voice Remembers"
• Animus Valley Institute: For rewilding and nature-based ceremony (see [107:58])

Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in field biology, wildlife photography, and immersive conservation storytelling, blending Ronan’s technical challenges, close encounters, and reflections on the bigger role of stories in rekindling respectful relationships between humans and wild places.

To view Ronan Donovan’s photography and ongoing projects, visit ronandonovan.com and follow on Instagram.