Ep. 820: Skunks Ruin A Marriage and Colorado’s Wolf Plan In Trouble

Summary

The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 820

"Skunks Ruin A Marriage and Colorado’s Wolf Plan In Trouble"
Host: Steven Rinella | Date: January 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew dive into a grab bag of wild stories and hot-button conservation topics from across North America. The team serves up their trademark mix of irreverence, humor, deep outdoor knowledge, and passion for wildlife management. Major segments include a viral skunk-trapping marital dilemma, the fraught situation surrounding Colorado’s controversial wolf reintroduction program, Florida’s evolving bear hunt, and the complexity of Alaska’s subsistence hunting rights. Along the way, the crew pulls in tales of seafood heists, listener mail, mountain lion encounters, and much more—peppered with memorable banter, quips, and unfiltered opinions.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter: The Social Media Deer Processing Rant

[02:16 - 08:37]

• Randall relates a wild Facebook post by a disgruntled deer hunter upset about rising deer processing fees (“$185 bucks for 30 packs of meat…”), blaming everything from “Sleepy Joe” (i.e., President Biden) to greedy processors. The post devolves into classic internet flame wars: welding insults, “your mom” jokes, and tough-guy posturing.
• The crew riffs on why people turn to social media for grievances:

  “How is a Facebook post not asking the peanut gallery?” – Steven Rinella [05:39]
  "Humans are full of contradictions." – Randall [05:41]

• Phil discusses when and what to “bleep” out on air, leading to more quips about “balls” and banter over standards.

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2. Previewing Today’s Agenda: A Packed News Day

[08:48 - 09:37]

• Steve previews “a lot to cover”—from Florida’s bear hunt to Colorado wolves, Massachusetts lobster heists, Canadian hunting heartwarmers, jaguars in Arizona, Alaskan goats, and, most tantalizingly, “a desperate plea about skunks ruining a marriage.”

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3. Listener Mail: A Canadian Hunter Gets Help

[11:42 - 13:44]

• A young Alberta hunter previously featured as "down on his luck" is the center of a new story: after appearing on MeatEater, Canadian listeners reach out to support him—demonstrating the warmth and camaraderie of Canadian hunting circles.
• Notable letter:

  “Our group would love to take him in and help him out. Please forward him my info…” – Steve Van Brunt, Calgary Fish and Game Association [12:54]

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4. Corrections Segment Launch

[13:44 - 23:29]

• Steve proposes a formal “Corrections” segment, inspired by “the era of misinformation.” They describe wanting accountability—listeners are encouraged to submit corrections, but “bring receipts,” not just disagreements.
• Notable quote:

  “You gotta bring the receipts. You gotta show your work…” – Steven Rinella [17:46]

• The team reminisces about stringent fact-checking on NYT’s Daily podcast (“Those suckers fact check what the guest says!” — Steven [15:17]) and debate how to systematize (possibly with jingles).
• Two corrections detailed:
  • Meat scientist Chris Calkins corrects their use of a meat shear test on raw crane/ribeye (“hardly any relationship between shear force of raw vs. cooked meat”) [21:13]
  • Clarification about Arizona’s jaguar management: contrary to claims, the state wildlife agency has been supportive and active in jaguar conservation.

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5. Alaska Conservation Fundraisers & Raffle Insights

[26:13 - 34:57]

• The crew discusses ongoing Alaska raffle tags for mountain goat and bison hunts, highlighting how the money directly funds wildlife research (notably mountain goat collaring studies).
• Quirky moment: “I’m in the mix... I bought four for 75. I’m going to get back in.” — Steven [32:25]
• Explains the unique challenges and opportunities for non-resident hunters in Alaska.

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6. Listener Mail: 'Skunks Ruined My Marriage'

[35:30 - 44:32]

• Bryce from Oklahoma writes in: he and his son are trapping skunks for the $20-30/Oklahoma fur market, but it’s destroying home harmony:

  “My wife broke down in tears and proceeded to tell me she can’t live like this anymore… tired of my truck and the garage smelling like a skunk.” [36:00]

• The team debates solutions—outbuildings, seasonal tolerance, better compartmentalization of skunk activities.
• Steve relays the classic tale of sensory acclimation:

  “…You, my friend, might be acclimated... to the skunk smell.” [39:21]

• Phil weighs in on the value of piano lessons vs. skunk trapping (“Skunks are black and white. Pianos are black and white...” [44:09]).

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7. Wildlife Crimes: The Massachusetts Lobster Heist

[45:04 - 51:11]

• The crew covers a series of high-profile seafood thefts in Massachusetts, including the theft of 40,000 pounds of lobster meat ($400K in value) using sophisticated trucking and cyber-crime tactics:

  “You’re stealing lobster…unmarked stuff, very easy… hard to track, easy to move…” – Steven [45:55]

• Jokes fly about aspiring to black-market lobster prices, the movie-worthy nature of these thefts, and comparisons to classic heist films.

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8. Florida Bear Hunt: Policy, Quotas, and Sabotage

[54:23 - 61:09]

• Steve revisits Florida’s chequered modern bear hunting history:
  • Open quota hunts led to overshooting harvest targets, which then incited backlash and halted hunts.
  • Recent tag-lottery was subverted by animal rights activists who applied for bear tags en masse and didn’t use them, resulting in reduced harvest.

  “They create a scenario and then they use that scenario…to turn around and use it against the wildlife manager.” — Steven [59:33]

• The irony of activists both funding agencies by buying licenses and then using low harvests to lobby against future hunts gets a full airing.

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9. Federal Subsistence Debate in Alaska

[61:33 - 70:23]

• A deep-dive (with promises of a dedicated future episode): Who should have access to federal subsistence rights in Alaska?
  • Explains how federal subsistence differs from state-level rules.
  • Current controversy: The federal board granted Ketchikan, a well-developed town, “federal subsistence status”—much to the shock of Alaskan hunters because of its urban amenities (Walmart, Starbucks, airport, etc.).

  “You’re saying you people rely on a subsistence lifestyle and should be granted subsistence harvest authority…how in the world can you live in a town with a Walmart… and claim to be reliant on subsistence?” — Steven [68:23]

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10. Mountain Lion Attacks: Rare but Newsworthy

[73:42 - 79:43]

• Discussion of a fatal mountain lion attack on a hiker near Estes Park, CO—first in Colorado this century.
  • Expands into a discussion on changing human-wildlife tolerance, rare but notable attacks in other states, and whether increased coexistence with predators brings unintended risks.

  “If we covered people getting zapped by lightning, like we always cover people getting killed by wild animals, we’d have much more coverage.” – Steven [75:05]

• Anecdotes and banter on hiking, biking, and bear/lion encounter stories.

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11. Colorado’s Wolf Reintroduction Program in Crisis

[83:06 - 95:16]

• Brody (“reporting from the wolf desk”) unpacks escalating federal intervention in Colorado’s wolf reintroduction, which faces:
  • Federal threats to take over management or halt the project if compliance lapses.
  • Issues with source populations (outside/wrong regions), recordkeeping, and livestock kills.
  • Politics: The overlay of state/federal friction, historic beefs between state/federal officials (“Trump…has beefs with a lot of governors…”, [87:00]), and inter-state resistance to providing wolves.
  • Unattainable goals: CO aims for “30-50 wolves” but has no mechanisms for population control, leading to suspicions that the true carrying capacity (hundreds) will be reached unchecked.

  “You are baiting… You don’t have a pathway to any kind of control…there’s no way in the state of Colorado…you’ll ever stop at that [30-50 wolves]…” — Steven [93:07]

• Brody and Steve agree that political and management structures make most population targets meaningless in practice.

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12. National Wolf and Grizzly Management Politics

[95:32 - 104:08]

• Steve draws analogies to international politics, arguing that persistent blocking of reasonable delisting proposals (for wolves, grizzlies, etc.) will eventually provoke blanket federal actions to the detriment of nuanced policy.

  “You shoot yourself in the foot by being unreasonable all the time.” — Steven [98:40]

• (Tangential foray into international law, legality, and overreaching analogies—Steve notes he’s “tiptoed out of [his] area of expertise.”)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On audience feedback and fact-checking:

  “I want corrections so bad that we’re going to reward corrections!” – Steven Rinella [15:25]

• On the tension of the Florida bear hunt:

  “The animal rights community says: we’re going to…apply for all these tags and then don’t hunt them. What does the animal rights community say? The lack of success these hunters had goes to show there aren’t enough bears…” – Steven Rinella [59:33]

• Skunk fur market impacts:

  “I came home last night…after a good trap line check and my wife broke down in tears…she’s tired of my truck and the garage smelling like a skunk.” – Listener Bryce [36:00]

• On the Alaska subsistence controversy:

  “Now the guy who owns the grocery store is now federal subsistence…taking a full-on city… and saying you people rely on a subsistence lifestyle…” – Steven Rinella [67:47]

• On Colorado’s wolf politics:

  “Colorado will never have a wolf hunt…These are the same people that almost just damn near shut down bobcat hunting, mountain lion hunting…” – Steven Rinella [93:55]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:16 – Viral Facebook deer processing rant
• 11:42 – Heartwarming Canadian hunting support
• 13:44 – Launch of official Corrections segment
• 26:13 – Alaska goat/bison fundraising raffle and collaring discussion
• 35:30 – Skunk trapping vs. marriage (Listener letter)
• 45:04 – Massachusetts seafood heists
• 54:23 – Florida bear hunt: policy and activist sabotage
• 61:33 – Alaskan federal subsistence controversy
• 73:42 – Mountain lion fatality and rising big predator tolerance
• 83:06 – Colorado wolf program: federal intervention, political friction
• 95:32 – Broader Endangered Species Act, wolf/grizzly politics

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Final Notes

This episode delivers a rollicking, informed, and provocative survey of pressing outdoor and wildlife topics. It’s classic MeatEater: sharp opinions, dry humor, rich storytelling, and practical takeaways for anyone passionate about hunting, fishing, and conservation in North America. Even casual listeners will come away entertained and better informed about the crosscurrents shaping American wildlife management today.

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For corrections, feedback, or questions:
Email the show: [e-mail] – and bring the receipts!

Transcript

[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

This is the Meat Eater Podcast. Coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless.

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The Meat Eater podcast, you can't predict anything.

[Steven Rinella]

Brought to you by first light. When I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds. No compromise. Gear that keeps me in the field longer. No shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out@first light.com. that's F I R S T L I T E dot com. Welcome to the Meat Eater podcast, suckers. Listen, if you got little kids standing by, you're going to cover their ears because Randall's got a news item.

[Randall]

We are going to bleep it.

[Steven Rinella]

Right? Phil's going to bleep the whole thing.

[Brody]

Good.

[Steven Rinella]

Of course. Yeah. We've done this in the past.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So Randall found us the salacious exchange. On what platform?

[Randall]

This is on Facebook.

[Steven Rinella]

You spend a lot of time there?

[Randall]

No, I have no. I was looking at. I was looking at like, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Facebook Marketplace stuff and this popped up. Yeah.

[Randall]

And I have no idea. I have no idea who this guy is. I did some research to find out where he is. We won't name him, but just set the scene. He's.

[Phil]

He's how did it come through your feed?

[Steven Rinella]

Like it was just the algorithm.

[Randall]

It knows that I'd like this.

[Steven Rinella]

That's not true. You're lying.

[Randall]

So I'll set the scene. There's a photo and it's. It's a bunch of packaged deer meat. And his post reads, I'll do a shortened version. Deer processors are the biggest rip offs of 20, 25. 185 bucks for 30 packs of meat, which brings the price to over 6 bucks a pack. And I supplied the meat. Then they want to get. Because you question them on it. Lucky I didn't slap the out of him. I'm in the process of processing my own damn deer and the processor and hope they all go out of bed. I hope they all go out of business. Bunch of ripoff bastards. Then they me on five packs of sausage that cost me $15. Mind you, deer processing was $85 before Sleepy Joe for the same thing.

[Steven Rinella]

But back up, I'm interested. He feels that, that, that he feels that the Biden administration made me. Made wild game processing go up.

[Randall]

It's part of it. I think he also just thinks that.

[Steven Rinella]

They'Re, they're greedy and they felt emboldened by. And all might be increased. They felt emboldened by the Biden administration to charge more.

[Randall]

Yeah. And I think the real, like, the real this is. This is.

[Steven Rinella]

That is true love the law. I believe everything anybody tells me.

[Randall]

And you think this is like this is it. But there's 2.9k comments. So 2900 comments and I realized that this man is responding to almost everyone that comments.

[Steven Rinella]

So he just wants the public to know just. I'm understanding this. He just wants the public to know.

[Randall]

He'S going to do his own process.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, he's been ripped.

[Randall]

He's going to do it himself from now on.

[Steven Rinella]

Now on he's doing it himself and he just is putting this out to the public.

[Randall]

Yes. Okay, so one po. One person commented, grow some balls and process the deer yourself and retain all the meat for yourself. And he responded six hours later and he said, I've got some for you. You.

[Steven Rinella]

Phil, are you bleeping out? Listener would already know the answer to this. Are you bleeping out the balls?

[Phil]

Yeah, I think, I think, I think.

[Steven Rinella]

The balls in the, in the initial comment, I will not bleep out the balls. In the second comment, I will. I think the context is different. You know, like right now people say balls.

[Sponsor Voice (Public Investing)]

It's a bleep.

[Phil]

Nope, that's not being bleeped. Okay, let's get back to we've talked about sways.

[Steven Rinella]

What's wrong with balls?

[Brody]

Okay.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

We've let so much more flies. Okay.

[Randall]

So I'll just.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm in it now. Just trying to get the lay. Another listening experience.

[Randall]

Another gentleman commented, if you hand off the work, you have to pull out your wallet. Then 11 hours later the man responded. Nobody asked the peanut gallery nothing. So you can.

[Steven Rinella]

But. But he did because he.

[Randall]

I know. I know he did.

[Steven Rinella]

Ask the peanut gallery.

[Randall]

Humans are full of contradictions.

[Steven Rinella]

How is putting. How is a Facebook post not asking the peanut gallery?

[Randall]

Yeah, I don't think he's fully thought it through. Yeah. You should reflect on your attitude before taking the life of another animal. You should be more grateful. To which he responds, I wouldn't think twice to take yours.

[Phil]

That's. That's the one good one that. That. That one got me.

[Steven Rinella]

That's gonna become like a blood tr. There's a your mind here that I heard earlier.

[Randall]

Oh yeah, let me find because I'm.

[Steven Rinella]

A sucker for a good. Your ma Joe.

[Randall]

Well, there's a couple.

[Steven Rinella]

I look one to Yani and he threatened to punch me.

[Randall]

There's a couple. Your ma joke true this. This one says sleepy Joe is the problem question mark. Sounds like the problem is sleepy so and so who can't do his own deer. And he says because I was busy. Your mom.

[Steven Rinella]

That's good. What are you going to bleep out on that?

[Phil]

I don't know. I'm going to feel it out and just see what.

[Steven Rinella]

See what feels. Feels right.

[Randall]

Then he brings his own profession while someone brings his own profession. He says sounds like you yourself and brought it to the wrong butcher. Just like when customers bring to you for bubble gum welding. To which he responds oh, he's a welder. He says yeah, okay, let's see your weld. Smart ass. You nor nobody you know can do what I do.

[Steven Rinella]

So it's turned into an indictment of his own welding. Yeah.

[Randall]

And then there's just rapid fire. Real men cut up their own deer. You pal, watch out. We got a badass off. If you don't have time or knowledge to put what you harvest in the freezer, you shouldn't be hunting. You sounds like you was being lazy and cost you more than you wanted to pay. Now you're mad. If you want a bitch, get off your ass and do it yourself. And he says you nobody's lazy but your old lady maybe could be true.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Randall]

And then the other one was this Is I'll end with this. He says, if you don't shoot a button buck, you'll get more meat. And he says, does this look like a button buck to you? Then he has a picture of him holding the cutoff head in the back of a truck. It is a nice buck.

[Steven Rinella]

Can I see that?

[Phil]

Corinne, do you know what bubblegum welding is?

[Steven Rinella]

It's not good definitively.

[Katie]

No. I mean, is it just like doing a shoddy job and bubbly, gobby weld.

[Randall]

Like gum stuck on the underside of a table?

[Katie]

Oh. Oh. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for.

[Phil]

I wouldn't have known until I did a little bit of welding.

[Randall]

Last year, I was out duck hunting with Cal, and I. It was like a lull in the action, and I just got on Marketplace and I saw that, and I. Screenshot. I took, like, 10 screenshots of the comments, and there's more there. It's a rich text.

[Katie]

The guy exposed himself. I mean, he exposed his face.

[Randall]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a personal Facebook thing.

[Odoo Ad Narrator]

Yeah.

[Randall]

You can. If you go to his channel, we.

[Steven Rinella]

Should have him on the show.

[Randall]

He seems a little cantankerous, maybe remotely.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, it's funny. You know, the.

[Katie]

Keep them at arm's length.

[Steven Rinella]

I want to get moving along. We got a lot to cover today. We're gonna. Just so. Just so, ladies and gentlemen, just so you know, we're gonna talk about Florida. Florida bear hunt. A lot of news. Florida bear hunt. We got a heartwarming story from Canada. We're going to talk about Colorado wolf management and. And. And the. The wrath of the Trump administration. We're going to talk about a lot of corrections. Oh, some stuff about jaguars in Arizona, some stuff about mountain goats in Alaska. A lot of stuff to talk about. What else is in here? There's a thing called a desperate plea about skunks subsistence. Oh, Massachusetts lobster heists. I don't think we can get to the subsistence.

[Brody]

That's a big.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a big, big bucket. Anyways, obviously, lots of stuff we got to cover, but real quick, you know the. The. The. The bobcat championship game?

[Katie]

No.

[Steven Rinella]

The local school team won. My buddy.

[Katie]

Very exciting.

[Steven Rinella]

My kid's buddy was telling a story. His family's all huge. Bobcats fans. It goes to overtime, and so it's like, very tense overtime moment. And the Bobcats dude makes a catch in the end zone, which ties the game up. It will then be decided by the extra point. Anyways, the minute he makes the catch his own.

[Katie]

I know he's learned up on his.

[Steven Rinella]

I was watching this dude, and, you know, it's funny. I'm watching with my family, so I'm in the position of knowing more than anybody. It's like, you like that old, like, you know, I hate to say it, but it's a. It's an old term, like the blind leading the blind. I had a glimmer of vision leading a family of the blind because I'm like, no, no, no. What happens now? You know, because my wife, she's a.

[Phil]

Little surprised because Katie's been, I think, watching more.

[Steven Rinella]

She's a big fan. She's a big fan. She was on. Was fired up, but I know more of the rules, and I'm just, like, better. I don't know, man. Like, I'm better at, like, can we clip that figuring out what's going on in a football game than she is? Yeah, I just am. She's more invested in it. She likes going to the. To the. The arena to watch the games.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So anyways, my kid's buddy, his dad, the minute the dude makes the catch, his dad, in a moment of excitement, hurls his remote control across the room. And when the remote control hits the wall, it changes the channel and then dissolves. So he's just describing his old man trying to frantically get his TV back up and running time. He got this. By the time he got it back up, the game was over. Oh, no.

[Katie]

He missed 10 minutes of overtime.

[Steven Rinella]

You know, I mean, he was just. This old man was, like, just so overwhelmed. That was hilarious. Heartwarming story to start the new year, folks. Here's a good one for you. On a recent show, we covered a. We. We kind of dogged on him and goofed on him a little bit, but we. We covered a young, struggling Canadian hunter who lives in Alberta, probably. No, we know he's in Alberta.

[Brody]

Yeah, that's right.

[Steven Rinella]

Talking all about how he. He's hunted all these years and never sees nothing, never gets nothing.

[Brody]

Nobody will tell him where.

[Steven Rinella]

No one will tell him where to go. He says they'll tell him to go west, but then he sees a picture of them with a deer, and it looks like they. He thinks people lie to him. Hunting all these years, never got anything but a grouse. Well, we covered him and goofed on him. And with love, he wrote in to say, no, no, no, no, he didn't write.

[Katie]

A bunch of Canadians.

[Steven Rinella]

Canadians wrote us.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Helping him out.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Randall]

Offering.

[Brody]

That just goes to show you the difference between Canadians and Americans.

[Steven Rinella]

Yes.

[Brody]

Americans be, like, tough here's one.

[Steven Rinella]

Hey there, my name is. This is a letter. Here's a letter that came in. Hey there, my name is Steve Van Brunt, and I'm the treasurer of the Calgary Fish and Game Association. By the sounds of his email, I'd guess this hunter's in Calgary. Our group would love to take him in and help him out. Please forward him my info. I know the struggle. I also started hunting in my 20s and went a few years getting skunked at first. And he says, here's the. For reference, here's a picture of my first deer, which I shot west in the mountains. And if you look, it's not.

[Katie]

So. Roman has connected the initial writer in with this group and maybe we'll. We'll hear of his success.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's. Here's the deal now. This, this, pay attention. We gotta do. We gotta do corrections. Now, anyone alive today knows. Everyone talks about how we're in this era of misinformation, right? We're like in this cultural moment of we're just misinformation.

[Phil]

Does everybody know that?

[Steven Rinella]

If you're engaged in the national conversation and you're a newsreader, that's a legit. You would know that there is a. You would know. Whether you agree it or not, you would know that there is a cacophony of, of like, noise around fake news misinformation. And it cuts both ways. During, during, during the pandemic, you'd say that, hey, maybe it was a lab leak and you, you'd be accused of misinformation, right? Which wound up being probably true. So it cuts both ways. But there's this whole narrative of, like, there's no accountability, right? There's no accountability. You just say, you say a react, you say a thing, and you could say something blatantly false. And we don't have the mechanisms out there to correct misinformation.

[Brody]

And then it goes out there and.

[Steven Rinella]

Does its thing and it cuts both ways, whatever.

[Randall]

But we have that mechanism here.

[Steven Rinella]

We have that here. And I'll point this out. When I participated in that. When I participated in the New York Times Daily podcasts. I've been on a lot of podcasts and I've hosted a lot of podcasts. Those suckers. Fact check.

[Randall]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

What the guest says. Yeah, that would shut down most podcasts.

[Brody]

Yeah, Phil, we need to start doing that.

[Steven Rinella]

They recorded. They go to. They go to me and they're like, you said X, you said Y, you said Z. We can't corroborate Z. And I Had to go be like, well, give me five minutes and I'll show you. Right. And then later that day, I had to be like, I was wrong. I was wrong, and they caught it. Yeah, right. No one does that. That would ruin. That would end podcasting in America. Today, however, what we'd like to do is we're going to create. I. We want. I want corrections so bad that we're going to create a system by which we reward corrections. So if we say something that's off or incorrect or if we miss something or if, you know. Well, you know that thing that happens where you lie by omission. We caught our kid lying by omission recently.

[Brody]

Left out a key detail.

[Steven Rinella]

The detail was so key. Darn right. The D. He's like, I'm gonna go do blank.

[Katie]

This is the oldest.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I'm gonna go do blank. They were like, oh, this doesn't sound like a problem. You know? And then, like, a while later, we realized that he left off the other.

[Randall]

Things he was doing.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, let's say you're like. Let's say this is. Let's say you were like, hey, I'm gonna run down the road to the gas station. Okay. To rob it.

[Randall]

Yeah, right.

[Steven Rinella]

That's not it. But it'd be like a thing like that, and we're like, home. That's. What. At what point were you planning on including that detail? So he lied by omission. Right? Lied by omission. So if we say something that's off, incorrect, if we miss something, if we. If. If we screw up by omission of a thing. Right, sure. Everything you said was correct, or you, the listener, are thinking you didn't say anything that was wrong, but you left off something of such impact that would have fundamentally changed the conversation you were having. Feel free to write in.

[Brody]

But they got to bring the receipts, Right? They can't just disagree with you.

[Steven Rinella]

You got to bring the receipts. You got to show your work, be.

[Katie]

Discerning about it, please.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, don't just send a bunch of dumb garbage in.

[Katie]

You can email the Meat Eater podcast atthe meat eater.com and we're going to be accumulating a bank of this and corrections in. In a little while, we'll formalize a segment.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, we're talking about formalizing a segment, and we're talking about rewarding the best correction.

[Brody]

Phil, you're going to have to come up with a corrections jingle.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, that's corrections. We can dust off traditions. Well, I had an idea.

[Katie]

Where?

[Sponsor Voice (Public Investing)]

In.

[Steven Rinella]

In the room. You all go, 1, 2, 3 Corrections.

[Phil]

And then I play a sound that goes. Corrections.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Phil]

So kind of like a combo deal.

[Brody]

I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

We'll figure it out. Fiddler on the Roof coming back.

[Phil]

We've done this in the past, but we've never.

[Steven Rinella]

We've never systematized it by acknowledging it, but we've never formalized. And what we're aiming toward doing is perhaps building a correction of the week. This is a live. This is a live idea I'm throwing out there. Feel free to shut it down immediately.

[Phil]

Would you want people to send in, like, video clips of them saying, like, hey, this is.

[Steven Rinella]

This is John from. From Arkansas.

[Phil]

I got a correction for you.

[Steven Rinella]

We can play it. We can play it on a lot.

[Randall]

Of work, depending on the delivery.

[Katie]

Yeah, you could do that. You could write it.

[Steven Rinella]

If someone did do that, we don't.

[Brody]

Want Randall's guy doing that from Facebook.

[Steven Rinella]

Phil, let me get out with the corrections.

[Phil]

I foresee. If I can just finish my thought. I foresee a show that is 100 corrections.

[Steven Rinella]

Because then you got corrections to the corrections.

[Phil]

That's been a thing.

[Steven Rinella]

We don't need to do them all. So the Warner. Here's a correction, for instance.

[Phil]

I will just pick the good corrections that we like.

[Steven Rinella]

No, the best correction is the correction that corrects the biggest wrong correct. For instance, for like, if someone's like, oh, you said that it became a state in 1848. It actually became. Technically, it became a state on at 11:59, you know, p.m. the New Year's Eve, 1847. Like, I don't care about that. Yeah. You know, but if it's like, hey, man, you said whatever that, that, that, you know, I don't know.

[Randall]

For example, that white. We have some good.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Trying to get on show here. This isn't a podcast correction, it's a video correction. But it has podcast tie ins. We recently did a thing, a video about our. Our sandhill cranes. Truly ribeye. The ribeye in the sky.

[Katie]

If you haven't watched it, go to YouTube and. And watch that episode.

[Steven Rinella]

We're currently making a video called Are Mergansers really as Bad as they Say? Okay, so in our sandhill crane video, we busted out our Warner Braxler shear force test machine, which measures tenderness to this. Chris Calkins from the University of Nebraska, who is a meat scientist, wrote in to say.

[Katie]

Wait, he was our guest?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, he was on episode 277. He came on to talk about meat science. The episode that was back when we had good Names for our episodes. That episode was called Red Cutter.

[Katie]

So good.

[Steven Rinella]

Before we caved and started using dumb names. No, he's a meat scientist.

[Phil]

So, yeah. If you want to go find this episode, don't search like meteor. What to know about meat, you're gonna have to type in red.

[Steven Rinella]

Something you never think to write in.

[Phil]

Yeah. Be very difficult to find because something.

[Steven Rinella]

That no one on the planet is.

[Randall]

Searching except for people who've already listened to the episode and remember every detail.

[Steven Rinella]

About it they typed in. Meet scientists, University of Nebraska Wild Game. You won't find. You type in Red Cutter. You'll find this.

[Phil]

It's an extremely educational.

[Katie]

People should listen, like, every. Every year just to refresh.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. All your questions about, like, all your questions. Like, you know when someone hits a deer and it goes. You hit a deer bad, and it goes two miles before you find it. And then people be like, well, that deer will be no good to eat because it was stressed and the lactic acid. All those questions resolved. Should you soak your meat in water? Should you soak it in salt water? Like, all those questions. Result. He wrote in to say there's no. Basically, he says, yeah. What is he. Oh, here it is. It's. It's quick. This is Chris Calkins, the meat scientist. I saw a recent Instagram post showing use of the meat shear machine being used on raw meat. Be aware there's hardly any relationship between sheer force of raw versus cooked meat. For those who know, it's a glaring error. We were taking raw sandhill crane and raw rib eye and measuring the tenderness, and the sandhill crane blew away the ribeye in terms of tenderness.

[Phil]

Did you do it cooked also?

[Steven Rinella]

We never did it.

[Katie]

That was the mistake.

[Steven Rinella]

And what was funny about it is I was noticing that in the shear force machine, sandhill crane is half. It's. It's scoring like. I can't remember the exact numbers. Basically, it's scoring like a 1.5 bite force, and the ribeye is scoring a 3.0 bite force. But then when you cook them and eat them, there's no discernible. Like, in my mind, there's no discernible difference.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He's saying, you can't do that. You got to cook it then sheer force, test it.

[Katie]

So we did the wrong science.

[Steven Rinella]

Did the wrong science.

[Katie]

Okay, you were right.

[Steven Rinella]

Coming up is. Okay, that's a great correction. In future, this gentleman would maybe be walking away with correction of the week for those. Brody's going to visit your home and cook you dinner, and you can like.

[Brody]

Insult me or something and tell me, tell me I'm wrong.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's another correction. I love how game you are for that, Brody. We recently had on an episode 796 called Heart of the jaguar we had on the author James Campbell. And we discussed, among many things, jaguars and jaguar recovery in Arizona. In that episode, we mentioned the biologist, one of the, if not the leading cervid researchers. He's gonna. He's now he's gonna write a correction about that, saying how he's not. Amanda, I regard to be one of the leading servant researchers in America. I regard that to be true. We mentioned Heffelfinger in the show and I even mentioned saying something that he might not like to hear. And he had a long conversation. He had some very fair corrections. He was unhappy with references to the Arizona game and Fish Department not being supportive of jaguars showing up in Arizona. And he had a mountain of examples that he shared with me demonstrating quite the opposite, that the Arizona game and fish department has been entirely hospitable to jaguars in Arizona. He says his agency has always been very active in both planning and implementation. Implementation of jaguar con conservation. The Arizona Game and fish department supports the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service's jaguar recovery plan, which focuses on core jaguar habitat in south and Central America and Mexico. And that conservation efforts and funds for jaguar conservation should be focused on south of the border. He also says although the peripheral. The peripheral habitat in Arizona doesn't contribute to recovery, his department remains committed to protecting and conserving those individuals that disperse into Arizona. Moving on to a public service announcement. This doing this announcement goes against my well being because I've already bought my raffles.

[Randall]

Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier.

[Steven Rinella]

The outdoor Heritage Foundation.

[Katie]

Sorry, Corinne, I'm about to knock your odds down because I got the page open. I'm gonna get my credit card out.

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[Steven Rinella]

Did it move?

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[Steven Rinella]

Did you know that parents rank teaching financial literacy as the toughest life skill? That's where Greenlight comes in, the debit card and money app made for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and track spending with real time notifications. Kids learn how to earn, save and spend responsibly while parents have peace of mind knowing smart money habits are being built with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] iheart that's greenlight.com iheart the outdoor heritage foundation of Alaska is raffling off a Chugach mountain goat tag. SG800. That's the tag number, which will come with a fully guided hunting experience and a travel stipend, as well as a Delta Junction Bison tag, which is SI400. The money raised, is it SI400D. I think it's DI. Unless they changed it. I feel like it should be Di.

[Katie]

It's Di Si 403. Yeah, that's what it says on the website.

[Steven Rinella]

Whatever. It's the Delta Junction Bison tag.

[Phil]

So you get two tags if you win.

[Randall]

No.

[Brody]

2.

[Steven Rinella]

You have to Win each thing.

[Phil]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

The money raised for these tags will go to fund a collaring study being launched on the Chugach mountain goat population by the Palmer Fish and Game office and will also be used to support the organization's endowment fund. So this organization, the Outdoor Heritage foundation of Alaska, is raising money with a mountain goat draw that they will turn around and use to do research on that population of mountain goats by going in and funding a collaring study by Palmer Fishing Game. Now, I of the many things I enjoy following in life, I like following fur markets and I love following collaring studies. Looking at a map with all the blips of where stuff goes. I like the normal stuff animals do wearing a collar and I like the weird stuff animals do wearing a collar. Love collaring studies. They're very enlightening about how things use habitat. Another great thing about collaring studies is once you know how a population, there's a native population of mountain goats. Once you know how that population of mountain goats uses the landscape, conservation efforts can be much more focused. Right? You might say, hey, if we're going to protect habitats or do habitat work, where, like, where do these things actually go and what do they use? And it helps you be very targeted in conservation efforts. So coloring studies are great. Both the bison and the goat raffles are live now to back up to this goat deal for the goat tag. If you're not, this is open to non residents. And the catch here is unless you have a relative in Alaska and if you're a non resident of if you're an Alaskan non resident, so you don't live in Alaska, the only way you can go hunt goats is if you have a relative in Alaska and you can hunt goats with that person. Other than that, you got to hire a guide. So when you draw this tag, the wind. It's a guided trip with a travel stipend to get you up there. This is an all expense paid go tag. When I draw it, I won't need those services because I'm already familiar with the area. I'll hunt my brother. I don't need the services.

[Randall]

So you really should put in for this is what you're saying.

[Steven Rinella]

I apply for this tag. Here's the catch. Here's the weird part. I apply for this tag every year. Every year.

[Katie]

Here's the crazy thing. These websites actually tell you how many tickets have been sold so you can look at what your chances are. What is that right now only 258 tickets for the goat.

[Steven Rinella]

What? Dude, I'm in The mix. I'm in the mix for now. I'm in the mix. I bought 70. I bought four for 75. I'm going to get back in there now. I'm getting back in. I was just getting like, I just made an opening offer with my $75.

[Brody]

You can just tell them you don't need a guide. You're like, I don't need that part.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm going to put the money. I'm going to donate it back. I'm going to donate it back to the org.

[Brody]

Gotcha.

[Steven Rinella]

I won't need, I don't need the guide. Yeah, I'm already in it. The I'm already in the state draw anyway.

[Brody]

Yeah, you, you're almost, you're basically already hunting that goat.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Katie]

You'Re so close.

[Steven Rinella]

So how do people find us if you want to participate? Well, oh, the Delta Junction bison ticket packages like of the hunts in Alaska. There's Delta Junction, the Chitna Herd, the Farewell Burn Herd, the Copper River Herd. The, the Delta herd. Is the like road accessible? It's, it's a very achievable hunt. They do some, there's some farming. Oddly no, there's not much farming in Alaska. Obviously. There's some agricultural production around Delta Junction. So a lot of these guys that have these ag fields, they charge a small trespass fee. It's like if you want to go hunt a really wild, free ranging bison population that has buffalo that are able to move across jurisdictions and they're just like wild, free roaming animals managed as a big game species. This is a, this is an accessible hunt for people that don't know the ins and outs of Alaska. You don't need to be like a logistics wizard to pull off a Delta Junction hunt.

[Katie]

So where you.

[Steven Rinella]

40 tickets for 500 bucks, one ticket for 25 bucks. Goat 14 for 200, all expense paid, four for 75. God, that makes me, I just need, I'm getting in there. Heavy duty now. Yeah, keep BLEEP all that out. Phil will do.

[Katie]

So for the goat raffle, you have until March 6th. The drawing is going to be the next day. For the bison raffle you have until the 14th. The drawing is going to be on March 15th. And if you go to the Outdoor Heritage foundation of Alaska's website, o h f a k.org/raffles, plural, you will find links to purchase tickets.

[Phil]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Don't buy, buy the bison ones. Moving on, we got an email called a desperate plea. Advice needed now. Now stay tuned because we're going to get to the hard hitting. We're going to get to the hard hitting, political, politically divisive stuff down the road. Whenever I was talking about wolves and like the wrath of the Trump administration. That's all coming. But first, a desperate plea. Dear Stephen Crew, this is someone writing in for help. Let me. Let me begin by saying I love my wife and kids very much.

[Randall]

That's always a great setup, but hey, some guys don't.

[Steven Rinella]

Now if he wrote in, say, let me begin by saying I don't love my wife and kids.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Brody]

Changes the whole.

[Steven Rinella]

I wouldn't cover the story.

[Katie]

Yep. I wouldn't have put it in there.

[Steven Rinella]

So I would have read it.

[Randall]

He wouldn't have a problem if he.

[Steven Rinella]

If he was true, he wouldn't even have this problem.

[Phil]

Very titillating to start off a story with that, though.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, yeah. You could not. He said, I don't love my wife. I would have read, but I would never cover it.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Because I wouldn't be able to support that. He says, I also love trapping. As you may or may not know, skunk prices are pretty good this year. We know it well, buddy. In fact, we covered it at. On Meteor Radio live. With the fur market being down the past few years, I was excited to see that skunks are averaging 20 to 30 bucks in Oklahoma.

[Brody]

Jeez.

[Steven Rinella]

They were even higher. Like here.

[Katie]

Sorry, that was my dog.

[Phil]

There's a dog in the studio.

[Steven Rinella]

Excuse me. They were even higher. This happened like a couple years ago. There's like that spike in beaver prices for, for cowboy hats and dudes got so hard after beavers. It's just like it dropped. And I, and, and the skunk. I don't think the skunk is like, I don't know that the skunk explosion is going to hold up. So I think it's already dipping from harvest. A lot of guys catching a lot of skunks anyways. 20 to 30 bucks in Oklahoma. That being back to the letter. That being said, my son and I have started to target skunks more than usual. He says now I am no Jared Maya Johnson, but we're looking at a nice little payday with all the skunks we've been catching. I don't understand that reference.

[Randall]

He's doing pretty good.

[Steven Rinella]

He's really not. Because there's no part of Jeremiah Johnson where he's excelling at any sort of fur harvesting.

[Katie]

Are you. You're.

[Phil]

He's just saying that. Jeremiah Johnson, he feels like he's a great trapper. Jeremiah. And that he himself is. Is not comparable to a great trapper that maybe Jeremiah was, but he's still doing well.

[Steven Rinella]

If he said, no, I'm no Craig or Gorman.

[Phil]

That would make sense to three people.

[Steven Rinella]

Or I'm no Slim Peterson. Yeah, I'm no Haw Baker.

[Phil]

Oh, now, random.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm no Mercer Ling, no Seth Morris. I'm no John Graham. Sure, I'm no Jeremiah Johnson. But to go on. He's no Jeremiah Johnson, but he's looking at a nice little payday with all the skunks he's been catching. Well, I came home last night and sat on the couch after a good trap line check and my wife broke down in tears and proceeded to tell me she can't live like this anymore, buddy. I have gotten the same notes. She then says she's tired of my truck and the garage smelling like a skunk. He says, I didn't get sprayed, so it's not that bad. But she can just get a little whiff of it here and there.

[Randall]

I bet it's probably worth terrible.

[Steven Rinella]

Let me tell you something, buddy. Let me finish up the thing. He goes on. I am in a predicament. I love my wife, but I'm not about to sell all my trapping stuff and sign my son up for piano lessons. What should I do? Is there a happy medium to my situation? P.S. y' all need a new turkey spot in Oklahoma. I'd love to take you out. Bryce from Oklahoma. That odor is one of those odors. Let me put it to you this way. My dad always liked to tell story. When he was a little boy, he lived by a foundry. And all day long, katong, katong, katong from the foundry. People would say they'd come to his neighborhood and people go, what is that noise? To which people in the neighborhood go, what noise? Right. You, my friend, might be acclimated. You might be getting acclimated to the skunk smell.

[Katie]

Am I the only person and I have. I'm not in a household where skunks get trapped. If I drive by it, I just never, you know, it's pleasant. I never think it's bad.

[Steven Rinella]

No, it's great. Just little skunk.

[Katie]

It doesn't.

[Brody]

It doesn't hit me by proximity.

[Steven Rinella]

A little whiff of roadkill skunk is.

[Katie]

Is nothing.

[Randall]

But if you get run over a roadkill skunk and get a little bit of it stuck up under your vehicle and it just stays there for two.

[Katie]

Weeks, but it doesn't smell like. It doesn't smell rotten. Like things that would turn me off is like something that's like rotting.

[Phil]

I had my cat come home at.

[Steven Rinella]

2 in the morning drenched in skunk. And that completely altered my brain, rewired it.

[Phil]

I hate. I can't do it now because my art house smelled like it for weeks.

[Brody]

And the thing is, is it can like make something smell just by being near it.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Oh.

[Brody]

Like it absorbs, goes through the air and coats. Like, remember we were in that. You were. We were out at Jake's place and you were skinning that skunk and we had a couple of beaver thighs sitting like 10ft away to eat. Nowhere near.

[Steven Rinella]

And you couldn't eat those beaver thighs.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Years ago. Remember when we auctioned off in the auction house of oddities that bottle of genuine skunk?

[Katie]

Yes, I do.

[Steven Rinella]

So we were extracting that with hypodermic needles that you buy at Murdoch. Like hard. Like large bore cattle injectors.

[Katie]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, we were like surgical about doing it. And I. All I did. I didn't want to throw my hypodermic needle out.

[Katie]

So you washed it and kept it.

[Steven Rinella]

No, I didn't. There was the one oversight.

[Katie]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

So I had the hypodermic needle in my garage and my wife is having a fit about the skunk smell in her car on everything. I had a whole embarrass thing happened at the barber shop. So I'm like, katie, there is no nothing in that garage. It's just like a residual smell that'll dissipate, but it wouldn't. And I eventually realized that. Hypodermic needle. So she's probably right. You're probably wrong. If you had a way to take your whole. All aspects of your skunk operation to an outbuilding.

[Phil]

He needs a skin and shed.

[Brody]

Yeah. Just build a shed or.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but you might not have that. You might not have that luxury. It might just have to be that. You tell her trapping season don't last all year. I don't know. Or you take the whole entire operation. You don't park your truck in the garage. The entire operation. When you walk out of your shed. You walk out of your shed in your underwear.

[Randall]

Yeah. She's already in tears. So I think. I don't know if the trapping season is only part of the year is going to work.

[Steven Rinella]

I think.

[Randall]

I think he needs to start looking at the shed. Looking at the, The. The more dramatic step here.

[Steven Rinella]

But he might not. My story about the hypodermic needle is being. You have to take extra precautions. The entire operation. Boots, gloves, hat, clothes, truck, backpack. The entire operation has to move to where you. When you walk away from skunk land, you walk away in your underwear.

[Brody]

To be fair, you love your wife and kids very much, but you haven't moved your operation off site.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but I'm not doing 20 skunks.

[Brody]

True.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm good for like, a skunk. I mean, a skunk now and then, but we got a handful of like.

[Randall]

You know.

[Brody]

This guy might, you know, be a little more thoughtful than you. I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

She is crying.

[Phil]

Yeah, I think he's a little bit hard on the piano lessons. I think there's a lot of value in piano lessons.

[Katie]

I was gonna say that, too.

[Steven Rinella]

He's making a point.

[Odoo Ad Narrator]

Point.

[Katie]

But yeah, I think Yanni's point is.

[Phil]

Maybe his wife, you know, I'm just saying maybe he could use his proceeds, pay for some piano lessons and say, look what the kid's getting out of it.

[Brody]

As long as that kid hasn't been handling a skunk, he's got the kids.

[Phil]

Skunks are black and white. Pianos are black and white.

[Steven Rinella]

Good point, man.

[Phil]

It all goes together.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I think he was making a point. I don't. I don't think skunk trapping and piano playing are totally incompatible. But I think that you would find. You would find that there is an inverse correlation to prowess on the piano and prowess as a skunk trapper. I think that you would find that.

[Phil]

Does Dale Brisby know about these high skunk prices?

[Steven Rinella]

I told him about it and he said, I'm not that broke. Which I didn't want to take it up with him. I didn't want to argue him about it. I thought he was wrong. Here's some news from Massachusetts. This is fascinating. Something I hadn't really thought about. Well, I have thought about it. Listeners will know that in the past I had. It was. It remains unresolved, unsolved. There's an unsolved mystery where I. There was a fish heist in our office.

[Katie]

I don't know how it's still unsolved.

[Steven Rinella]

It was in our last office.

[Katie]

Yeah, that's.

[Steven Rinella]

There was a major fish heist in our last office, and it was never solved. Someone stole a small fortune's worth of seafood and we never eats at us, never caught him. But check this out.

[Phil]

I thought I was allowed to take that stuff.

[Katie]

Wait, what?

[Steven Rinella]

There have been these, like, high profile, like organized crime level. So this is a story reported in Forbes from Massachusetts. These like, well organized, high profile thefts of massive amounts of seafood. And the gist of the article saying, when you like These aren't. These aren't things with barcodes and serial numbers.

[Phil]

That's the reason they like them.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So it's like you're stealing lobster. So, like, unmarked. Like completely unmarked stuff. That's very easy. See, something I never thought of, like, a big load of seafood on a truck is very hard to track. Yeah, it's hard to track. And it's easy to move. It's easy to move. They got these guys that just stole 40,000. Like, hear me out. 40,000 pounds of lobster meat from a warehouse in Massachusetts. Estimated to be worth $400,000. The lobster was supposed to go to Costco's in Illinois and Minnesota.

[Phil]

You think that's like king crab legs in the shell? Or do you think it's lobster, but then. Oh, sorry, lobster. So is it.

[Steven Rinella]

I keep seeing lobster meat. I feel like it must be tails. Would you picture going to a Costco and finding tails?

[Brody]

Sometimes you'll see Whole Foods.

[Katie]

They're not.

[Steven Rinella]

That's what I was curious.

[Katie]

They're not like the main lobster tails. They're the.

[Steven Rinella]

No, these aren't rock lobster tails.

[Katie]

Right? That's right.

[Steven Rinella]

Spine. The spiny lobster tails. Yeah, yeah. When it keeps pointing out meat. I'm assuming they're not moving live lobster, but maybe like tails. And they're like. They're. At the time of this reporting, they're pointing out the. It's already gone on the black market for half price.

[Randall]

Which. That's what my takeaway. Yeah, I should be getting more black market lobster.

[Steven Rinella]

They probably. These. These thieves probably moved it at $200,000. But this guy goes on to say that you're probably seeing, or you're probably seeing. When you hear about how this theft goes on, this analyst here saying you're seeing old school organized crime intersecting with cybercrime. These guys basically. Not. Basically, these criminals impersonated a legitimate trucking company. Okay? They go to a warehouse with a truck that's labeled and everything. And they know about the. They know about the lobster being there. They know about the shipment happening. They pose as the legitimate shipper.

[Brody]

Well, they take over there. They like. It's like identity theft. Like, they. They get the account numbers and all the information.

[Katie]

It's both, like, physical on the trucks. And then like on the back end.

[Randall]

With the communication, they've hacked all the delivery.

[Steven Rinella]

They have a fraudulent load listing. And then they got. Their guy comes in. They got dispatchers, right?

[Katie]

Very sophisticated stuff.

[Randall]

And.

[Steven Rinella]

And they drive off.

[Randall]

And they drive off and then the. The actual truck shows up looking for the lobster that they already took off with.

[Steven Rinella]

That's a good part of the movie.

[Randall]

Yeah, it's a great part of the movie.

[Phil]

It's just 200,000.

[Steven Rinella]

Seems like, I know, it's like it's too risky for that, right?

[Phil]

It just seems like. Is it enough?

[Sponsor Voice (Public Investing)]

I would.

[Katie]

If I.

[Phil]

If you were to tell me. Oh, well, they've done it hundreds of times over, which later we learned that there was a crab that I think. What did it say? Annually? What was the number? Annually? It was in the billions, wasn't it?

[Brody]

Yeah. And they could be involved with all kinds. They could be picking up televisions and computers and they could be doing this with all different kinds of stuff.

[Steven Rinella]

But this, this being reported, like this is going to make their lives more difficult. But yeah, there's been other seafood heists. Yeah, but the part of it, I mean, it's all interesting. But the part of it was interesting to me is that you're just able to move huge. That you can just move black market huge quantities of seafood.

[Brody]

But if you said it like you said, if it's organized crime, they probably already have those connections, right? Like they know, they know how to move movement.

[Steven Rinella]

40,000 pounds of lobster.

[Randall]

So it says, all told, cargo theft is estimated to be a $35 billion loss from the National Insurance Crime Bureau. Yeah, but that includes, that includes electronics, pharmaceuticals.

[Steven Rinella]

But Yanni's point about the, the net. Unless you're doing this, unless they're just doing this all the time. If you imagine that you're a one off criminal enterprise and you have this where you got. You got four people involved, six people involved, and in the end you net 200000 bucks. That's not, not even net.

[Brody]

That's not your retirement plan.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, it's like going to an island. Maybe.

[Katie]

It's so easy for them to do. I wonder how much the, the crab heist was. And then there's other, you know, seafood heists going on. So maybe they just have it and.

[Randall]

They can just go quickly, easy.

[Phil]

And maple syrup is another big one. I think we've even covered that.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, this, we've covered the glass eel deal.

[Randall]

This is how you get to the classic film trope of one last heist. Because they need to do one last heist so that they can finally ride off into the sunset.

[Katie]

Right. So Ocean's Eleven.

[Randall]

Yeah, the £40,000 of lobster was good, but if we can get another 40,000 pounds of lobster, I'm not doing this anymore.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, exactly.

[Randall]

You know, like the town I've painted these ocean films. Yeah, exactly.

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[Steven Rinella]

Did it move?

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[Steven Rinella]

Bear Hunt Results Harvest Results We've covered this a whole bunch of Florida a decade ago. This is we always tell the story because one of my favorite kind of like, I don't know, wildlife policy stories of the last decade or so is Florida ran a bear hunt a decade ago and their first bear hunt in forever. I can't remember exactly how long, but their first hunt in decades. They ran a bear hunt. When they put together the bear hunt, they decided on a quota system. So it was an open hunt with a cap and it's like anyone with a license can go out and hunt bears. And their plan was to shut the license to shut the hunt down at 300 bears I think is what it was. And they within a couple days hit their quota in some of the units. They hit their quota right away. When they built it in, they built in that there was a 24 hour window. So as they approach their bear quota, people have to report the bear as soon as they kill it as they approach the bear quarter. Their plan was to shut it down, but there was a 24 hour window to shut it down. During that 24 hour period they were hunters were killing so many bears in Florida that during the 24 hour shutdown period, some units in Florida the bear harvest overshot the quota in a couple units. And so in two days of this open hunt in Florida, in a two day span, they killed 300 bears. All right? And the anti hunters, the animal rights folks had a conniption about this. They felt like, oh my God, they botched the whole thing. They killed too many bears. On the flip side, that that was half of the reality. The other half of the reality was people said, man, we must have a lot of bears, right? There's two ways of looking at this whole story, but it was a real black eye for Florida. Florida didn't do any bear hunts now. They just did another bear hunt. And on this bear hunt, they tried a new model. On this bear hunt, they tried a tag draw model where they did a lottery to give out a smaller handful of bear tags. What happened? As we reported on previous shows, what happened is the animal rights people all come in and they start saying, hey, we're gonna go apply for bear tags and then not use them. So they're going to give out the requisite. They're going to give out the allotted number of bear tags. And you guys.

[Phil]

172.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, they're gonna. We're gonna award 172 bear tags. And the animal rights people like, yeah, but we're gonna get all those bear tags and not use them prior to the hunt. The Fish and Wildlife Commission in Florida, their basic attitude was, go ahead, buddy, because you're just buying licenses and funding our agency by buying licenses. Next year, we'll take the formula and we'll adjust. If our objective is to kill, let's say, whatever. Let's say their objective is to kill a hundred bears. If you do your little scheme and we give out a hunt, let's say we gave out 200 tags expecting to kill 100 bears, and we give out 200 tags and kill 50 bears, well, guess what? Next year we'll give out 400 tags and we're going to get it right. Buy all the fake licenses you want. We thank you for the money was their attitude. Well, they did their hunt and lo and behold, they came in. They ran the season from December 6th to December 28th. They had a good hunt, but they came in below objective.

[Phil]

But hold on, is that clear that it's. That the objective was to kill 172?

[Brody]

No, that's the number of tags.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, they killed 52. And I think that they had, they had. They were comfortable with a much larger harvest. What was the harvest they were comfortable with?

[Brody]

I don't know if they said. They said a number. They just said that they're, they're like the success rate was lower than they had planned on, but it's still pretty good.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. They're pleased, but it was on the low end of expected. So here's, here's the great irony. Here's what always happens. This happened. Let me give you another ver. Well, let me tell you what happened. I'll give you another example to happen. So the animal rights community says, we're going to screw your bear hunt and we're going to apply for all these Tags and then don't hunt them. Okay. So they do the hunt. They issue 172 tags. They kill. Remind me again how many got around? 52. They kill 52 bears. What does the animal rights community say? The lack of success these hunters had goes to show there aren't enough bears to support the hunt. It's like in California when California banned using hounds to mountain lion hunt. The efficacy rate plummeted. So the they ban the use of hounds, the animal rights groups petition, they ban the use of hounds to hunt. Then you see in the following years, efficacy rate of lion hunting drops, drops, drops because you can't use hounds to hunt. What do they go and say? Oh my gosh, mountain lion efficacy rates are so low now. It must be, there's no lions. So they create a scenario and then they use that scenario, turn around and use it against the wildlife manager. So here they're making the case, geez, it went so shittily thanks to us doing what we did that now we can turn around and use that low harvest against the agency by saying must not be that many bears. Success rates are very low. Even though we're all sitting on tags that we didn't hunt.

[Brody]

Yeah. It'd be interesting to know how many of those tag holders were deliberately not going to hunt and then go with a success rate based on that, you know?

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. He goes, they go on to say, they, they go in their press release, they say, hey, the hunter success rate was very close to other states with similar hunt parameters.

[Phil]

Do you know if that's a go ahead?

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I'm glad for him. I mean if they had had a mistake again. Right. Let's say they had given 172 tags. I don't know what their objective was. If they gave 172 and 172 people killed a bear, then I don't know, then they'd be. People would be using that against them. It'd be another like what a slaughter, you know. So here's to moving forward. Yep.

[Phil]

Can non res apply for that tag? Do you know?

[Steven Rinella]

I'm not aware. That's a great question.

[Brody]

I would assume so, but I'm not positive.

[Steven Rinella]

Man, I wanted to get all into.

[Katie]

This is just, you can probably hit it lightly 10 because public comment is open.

[Steven Rinella]

10 non resident.

[Odoo Ad Narrator]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Trump reviews federal subsistence program in Alaska now here, this is a doozy. I hesitate to get into this because this is an hour long conversation and.

[Brody]

It'S not settled yet.

[Katie]

Right. Maybe light touch to talk about how it's not settled. We can come back to it.

[Steven Rinella]

60% of Alaska is federal land. In Alaska, there is a thing called federal subsistence hunting where people that live in rural communities in Alaska and in. In. In defined rural areas in Alaska. Residents of defined rural areas in Alaska can often hunt and fish on federal lands under different regulations than everybody else. It's the. It's federal subsistence. So you want to do.

[Brody]

There's three tiers, right? There's native, then there's like resident subsistence. Then there's like.

[Steven Rinella]

There's state.

[Brody]

Just rec. Kind of recreational.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, there's. There's. Here's why it takes an hour. Yeah. Because there's state subsistence. Yeah. So here. Here's an example.

[Brody]

It.

[Steven Rinella]

Let's say you're a resident of Alaska. There are some harvests that are state subsistence harvest, for instance, sable fish or black cod. That's state subsistence. You could live in downtown Anchorage and go. And you can travel to an area that has a state subsistence hunt or a state subsistence fishery, and you can participate in the area. So you could be from an urban area, but participate in a state subsistence hunt. As long as you're in the area where the state subsistence hunt occurs. For federal subsistence practices on federal lands, you have to be a resident of that area. Okay. You can do federal subsistence activities in your area. And it might be increased bag limits, earlier hunting seasons, fisheries that aren't open to other people. And that's the federal subsistence thing. What it allows is you can't. The state can't go in on some issues. They can't go in and make hunting seasons and fishing opportunities that are applied solely to native Alaskans. What they can do is they can say on federal lands, they can say, if you live in this area. And it might be a predominantly native area, if you live in this area, you have different rules and regulations for hunting and fish. Certain hunting and fishing practices on federal lands. Many, oftentimes. And this is my personal view, some of the federal subsistence board decisions.

[Phil]

Are.

[Steven Rinella]

There's some areas where they have some major overreach, in my view, as an outsider looking in.

[Brody]

You mean, like being too liberal with what they allow some people to do?

[Steven Rinella]

No, not as much. That is, they've. They've created a lot of controversy in Alaska by making certain things, like in western Brooks Range, that. Like caribou hunting, moose hunting for big game. You know, whatever decision that says it's. It's federal subsistence only, meaning that people from other part. Not people from outside the state. Not only people from outside the state, but people from outside of that area can no longer hunt that area or taking sheep doll sheep units in the Brooks Range. And the federal subsistence board coming in and saying only federal subsistence people can hunt. This hunt and it could be what they've allowed to creep into their decision making process is not necessarily the health of the species being hunted, but it's social considerations. Meaning people. Communities in the western Brooks Range say, hey, we're sick of people from outside of our area coming in to hunt. So the federal subsistence board saying okay, will make it that they can't. That has caused an enormous amount of controversy in certain areas. The federal subsistence board just made a very strange decision. They came in and declared Ketchikan, Alaska to be federal subsistence eligible. So now you have a town that has a Walmart and a Starbucks and.

[Brody]

A bunch of crappy gift shops for.

[Steven Rinella]

Cruise people and gift stores. It's a full on town with an airport. The federal subsistence board shocked everybody, most everybody, and came in and said Ketchikan is federal subsistence.

[Katie]

On what grounds? But like from their perspective, if they're putting forth this on serious grounds, what are they claiming? There are, there are people who could benefit.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's, here's the. I'll give you the best argument.

[Katie]

I mean, I know, I tried to.

[Steven Rinella]

Understand because there's a, there's a lot, there are a lot of native Alaskans in Ketchikan, right. And you can't grant, they can't grant just native Alaskans, right?

[Katie]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

So you have indigenous people in Ketchikan, they can't grant them these, these hunting and fishing privileges on that right. You can only grant it to the tribes under federal subsistence. But the minute you do that for federal subsistence, you can't. So you have to say the jurisdiction, everyone living in this jurisdiction. So now the guy that, the guy I know that Walmart owns Walmart, but the guy that owns the grocery store is now federal subsistence. And they can do hunting and fishing practices like in practice.

[Katie]

In practice, if that's lived out, will that still end up benefiting tribal members who they're seeking to.

[Steven Rinella]

That tribal members were instrumental in petitioning. Like native Alaskans from the area were instrumental in petitioning to get federal subsistence status. But the federal subsistence status falls of the whole town. And many people quite rightfully are looking at the irony of taking a town that has chain hotels.

[Katie]

Sure.

[Steven Rinella]

A Super 8, a Walmart Cruise ship docks, Delta airline flights, Alaska airline flights, United airline flights, a ferry system, cars. Like taking a full on city, a full on urban center and saying you need to you basically you're saying you people rely on a subsistence lifestyle and should be granted subsistence harvest authority. And other people looking and being like, how in the world can you live in a town with a Walmart in an airport and claim and be reliant on subsistence practices?

[Phil]

And why, I know you said earlier that they can't give it, just give it to the natives. And why is that?

[Steven Rinella]

It's unconstitutional. I don't know the full legal history of why that can't happen. It's unconstitutional. Here's what else makes the story interesting. Where a lot of this subsistence activity is going to wind up taking place is on another town, on another island that already has, because another island that very much is rural and is very remote and the people on that island have federal subsistence. So now people out there like home, it. Wait a minute. Where do you think they're going to be doing all this federal subsistence activity? It's going to be in our federal subsistence area. So now you got one, you got people from one federal subsistence area who are like, dude, you people aren't rural. And I know you're all coming to our area to hunt.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So for these various reasons, what I laid out about stuff from doll sheep units and I'm not even fully, like I have very complex personal thoughts about this whole thing. I'm trying to as much as possible lay out the issue that we'll cover when we cover this. We're going to cover this big time later.

[Phil]

This is the light touch.

[Steven Rinella]

This is the light touch. It's so complicated.

[Brody]

The thing is where, like if it goes through, like what's to stop? Like Anchorage or Fairbanks from. You know what I mean?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So Sci Safari Club International has a thing. They've asked, this has been put forward. They have asked the administration, the current administration to do a review of. Hey, what is going on with the federal subsistence program in Alaska? And a couple of the questions they're raising is they've recently added new board members. So it's like what is up with the. What is up with who is on the board? Are we talking about health of wildlife species or are we talking about social friction? What is the decision making process? What are some of the things that happened lately? And just basically doing a review of the process. Native groups in Alaska are worried about this. What's that?

[Phil]

So I'm looking forward to hearing more.

[Steven Rinella]

We're gonna do a full cover on it.

[Brody]

Yeah. What's the timeline on this? Like as far as them?

[Steven Rinella]

You read that for me because I gotta pull something up. Then we're gonna move on. Other news stories.

[Katie]

Yeah. Public comment. Where is it by February 13th.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, speaking of February 13th and Safari Club. Hold on a minute. What am I going down there? So I'm trying to find right now that's your birthday. Well, I know, but check this out. Give me a minute. Not then.

[Brody]

Where are they taking comments?

[Steven Rinella]

Not then.

[Katie]

Oh, you mean when you're going to national with Morgan?

[Randall]

Yeah, February 18th to 21st. Is.

[Katie]

This is the SCI Show.

[Randall]

Is the dates for the show.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. If you, if you on YouTube watched our Africa series and if you didn't.

[Katie]

Like, you need to.

[Steven Rinella]

Or listen to all the 3 million podcasts we did about it.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm going to be at the SCI Convention in Nashville with Morgan Potter. So if you're going to the SCI Show, Morgan Potter and I are going to do a presentation. So the professional hunter I was hunting with, who's been on the podcast, we're going to be in Nashville doing a presentation at SCI about that trip, about wildlife management, Africa, about things that were assumed and learned. Just the whole story of it. So if you want to come check that out. Tickets. You get tickets through sci. I have no, I'm going. Oh, ticket prices. All that money goes to sei. All. It all goes to support sci. I'm not taking a dip into this. So when you get in, you got to buy a ticket. But the ticket is not. To me, the ticket is to support sci because this is one of their biggest fundraising. It's a non profit. One of their biggest fundraising opportunities is is this. So when you get your ticket, you're supporting sci. Not me. Mountain lion kills woman in Colorado. A hiker. They even give her name. Kristen Marie Kovach, 46 years old, killed on New Year's Day in northern Colorado. Go ahead, Brody. This is your. Your neck of the woods?

[Brody]

Well, I was right outside Estes park, which is right outside Rocky Mountain National Park. Very like kind of resorties, touristy town, popular hiking trail and some other hikers.

[Phil]

Have you personally hiked that trail?

[Brody]

No, I. I don't. I mean, I may have back when, way back when, when I lived in Boulder.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't know.

[Brody]

I mean, I've been in that area a bunch, but either way, some other hikers found her and it was determined she had been killed by a mountain lion. They went in and I think killed two juveniles. And I don't know where they're at with getting the.

[Steven Rinella]

The lion that I heard from. I heard through the grapevine that they were looking for the adult.

[Brody]

Yeah. I haven't heard whether they, I, I, I mean, you'd think they would have got on that line pretty quick, but who knows?

[Randall]

I don't know.

[Steven Rinella]

I, I heard, yeah, minor. But yeah, of course they would be. If it's like a predatory response, they're probably gonna go after it.

[Brody]

But, you know, like, the whole thing kind of goes to whether, like lions attack more people in states where they don't get hunted versus where they do. Like, line hunting is legal in Colorado. It might not take place a lot in this particular area, but it's like, when you get into that whole thing, it's like it happens so rarely that.

[Steven Rinella]

It'S like it remains a non issue.

[Brody]

Yeah, exactly.

[Steven Rinella]

But it remains a non issue. If we covered people getting zapped by lightning, like we always cover people getting killed by wild animals. If we covered people getting zapped by lightning, we would have a lot, we would, there would be much more coverage. Yeah. Yeah.

[Randall]

One thing I saw was that the, on that same trail, a guy was attacked in the fall and he, he hit it with a stick and managed to scare it off. But then I guess there have also been cases of people walking pets in that area that have had their pets attacked.

[Katie]

So it seems like she was by herself.

[Brody]

It's probably a line that's just like, it's not like this is out in the middle of nowhere, you know?

[Randall]

Yeah. The guy was, the guy was encountered, encountered a lion in November when he was running and it rushed him. But he, he beat it off.

[Steven Rinella]

So, or it seems like they're, here's the crazy. I'll bleep that out.

[Randall]

Thanks, Phil.

[Steven Rinella]

What are you gonna BLEEP out? Just, just move on. Here's where this whole thing with mountain lion attacks gets weird is you had that, you had that summer. This is a handful of years ago now where Washington state had its first ever recorded human fatality from a mountain lion attack.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then right on the heels of that, I think it was in this order, Oregon had its first one in something like 90 years. Right. Together. And then a bunch of other high profile cases. We had a kid on who's sitting right where Yanni's sitting right now. Who him and his brother were attacked and his brother was killed in a mountain lion attack. It's like, it seems beyond, seems like, seems as though you're seeing more and more, there's different explanations to be like, there's more lines on the landscape, there's more people on the landscape, there's more recreation on landscape. One of the more interesting things I've. Someone has mentioned to me, we have a friend who works in mountain lion depredation issues, works, problem lines and things. Spent his whole career on mountain lions. He had like, just an observation from throughout his career. He was in the Pacific Northwest. And it's like just, it's an individual. It's a very well informed individual's observation that early in his career, any mountain lion that brushed up against like the human lion barrier was. Was a dead lion. He's like, in the old days, if a lion came on someone's porch, it was a dead lion. If a lion came through town, it was a dead lion. He says as tolerance has increased and as people have been reluctant to like, oh, look, that's so cool, there's a lion on my porch. Which he's not passing judgment on it, but he's saying as tolerance and acceptability of lions has increased, as people have gotten comfortable with wildlife and people have gotten where it's not, you know, you don't call the cops because you saw a mountain lion cut across your backyard. He says, I would expect to see more of this sort of thing happen. It doesn't mean that it's becoming like a pandemic. It doesn't mean it's becoming like anything other than a freak occurrence. Because, like, I would expect to see that with increased tolerance, you're going to have increased interactions.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Brody]

And those lines that are experiencing increased tolerance also develop their own increased tolerance for being around people.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. You know, they're like, oh, no, no, they're not a problem. You can go right up to them.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

It's like they don't do anything but.

[Brody]

To demonstrate, like, how rare it is. At first when I read this sentence, I thought it was funny, but then I thought about it. It's the. It was the first fatal attack in Colorado by a mountain lion this century. And you're like, oh, wow, was it. But this century is 25 years, so.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh, and where was the guy, Remember the guy that put that one in a stranglehold? Oh, yeah. Wasn't that Colorado?

[Phil]

I believe it was.

[Brody]

It was that little. It was a little line. It was like a juvie. Yeah.

[Katie]

Was it also Colorado where there are four older ladies? Were they bike.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Randall]

Another thing.

[Steven Rinella]

Bikes.

[Randall]

Bikes seem to have, like, a lot of. There are. There seem to be a lot of mountain biking incidents with lions.

[Brody]

I'm okay with that.

[Randall]

And there's the one in. There's a grizzly bear up by glacier that ended up killing a guy on A bike? Yeah, but it's like as more and more people are traveling quickly and silently in the woods.

[Steven Rinella]

He hit that. He. Yeah, that was a weird story because the dude hit it. Yeah, the dude behind him.

[Brody]

Oh really?

[Steven Rinella]

No, the dude behind him I believe boogied, took off. The guy that hit the bear got killed by the bear.

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[Covino and Rich (Ad Hosts)]

Hey, it's Covino and Rich. Super Bowl 60 is coming fast. If you're hosting, make the smartest play now. Upgrade before game week before the stores get picked over before kickoff sneaks up on you. Go with the TCL ultimate series, the QM8K or the QM9K Ultimate Brightness Ultimate Black levels for the ultimate game day experience. From the coin toss to the final drive, this is super bowl football stadium lights, fast cuts, big hits and bigger debates. Was he in?

[Steven Rinella]

Did it move?

[Covino and Rich (Ad Hosts)]

Did it cross with tcl? The replay looks obvious. The picture is so real it feels like you're on the 50 at Levi's Stadium. You'll catch the ball spin on a deep shot, the toe drag on the sideline. No blur, no squinting, no run it back and go big with sizes up to the massive 98 inch class. Every seat is a great seat, even the one by the snack table. On sale now at all major retailers. Get it while supplies last. TCL is the official TV partner of the NFL and Super Bowl 60.

[Sponsor Voice (Public Investing)]

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[Steven Rinella]

Take it away, Brody.

[Brody]

Back to the wolf desk in Colorado. Yeah, people think my favorite, the wolf.

[Steven Rinella]

Desk, where the wolf desk intersects with the wrath of the administration.

[Brody]

Oh, come on. It's not just a theory.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, no, here's the deal.

[Brody]

Let's, let's argue after we talk about it.

[Steven Rinella]

But you got to include the water deal. Oh, we will. Okay, go ahead.

[Brody]

So the Fed, we talk about Colorado wolves all the time. They're kind of at a standstill right now with getting new ones to introduce because the Fed said you can't get them from Alaska, you can't get them from Canada. Now they've stepped in and said if you don't comply with certain, like showing us certain, like recordkeeping things and, and, and certain practices you're going to do down the line and introducing more wolves. Like if you don't comply with what we say, we're just going to shut down your whole reintroduction program program and we're going to take over management of wolves in the state of Colorado. So that's, that's the, that's what's going on. Some of the reasons for stepping in were that Colorado knowingly introduced livestock killers, that Colorado released wolves last January without really letting anyone know when and where they were to do it. So there's like tension between Colorado and The federal, the U.S. fish and Wildlife as far as management policies and that.

[Steven Rinella]

They went outside the country to get the wolves, which was not part of their management.

[Brody]

They ultimately, yeah, they, I mean, they tried everywhere and ultimately I think got some from British Columbia after the FIA.

[Steven Rinella]

They brought in the. The. The state currently has 20 to 30 wolves. Several. Several new pups born in 2025. 15. They brought in 15 from Canada.

[Brody]

And I think they've, I forget the exact number. Like out of the total number they've introduced, I think they've maybe killed. I can look it up real quick, but I think they've. They've had to like lethally remove 10 of the ones they.

[Steven Rinella]

I know that they. I know that they have and I know that that was even done in a very, Some of that was done in a pretty low key fashion. Yeah. They had one boogie over to New Mexico.

[Brody]

Yeah. Which is very close to a population of endangered Mexican gray wolves.

[Steven Rinella]

That one killed some. That one killed some livestock and then they brought it back home.

[Brody]

What your buddy Cook think about that?

[Steven Rinella]

Haven't asked him.

[Brody]

Anyway, so possible outcomes here of a complete federal takeover. Where? Colorado cpw. Colorado Parks and Wildlife has no authority to manage wolves in their own state. And the Feds could come in and kill the wolves that are there. They could relocate them. Like Colorado wouldn't have a say. The reintroduction could be halted. So it's pretty interesting considering what else is going on at the same time as this. There's a bill moving through Congress right now, like the House just approved delisting wolves. It hasn't gone through the Senate yet and I don't know that it'll make it through the Senate. But that would throw a wrench into this whole thing too, because then the feds might not have the power to do what they want to do here. But there's also like this big beef going on between Trump and polis. You know, Trump has beefs with a lot of governors from Democratic states. There was a water program, but he.

[Steven Rinella]

Had that little hug a thon with the new mayor of New York.

[Brody]

He did. They love each other.

[Steven Rinella]

Which if I think of like a threat to America, I think of that dude. Yeah, well, partner, I see a lot of threats.

[Brody]

That guy, he's not managing wolves anywhere though.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, he's not matching.

[Brody]

But yeah. So like what was her name? Tina Peters. Is that right? So there was the woman that. What did she do? Randall? She was like, she, she was an.

[Randall]

Elections clerk and she, after she certified.

[Brody]

The election, messing with stuff, she. Yeah, she.

[Randall]

She let someone come in and copy the hard drives off of their voting machines and gave them passwords to the voting machines and did a bunch of stuff like that. So she, some, some random guy from the Internet.

[Brody]

She got convicted of that, like violating.

[Steven Rinella]

Her charter as an elections official.

[Brody]

Trump pardoned her, but she was convicted under a. On a state charge. So it was like a symbolic. Symbolic pardon. And Polis is like, yeah, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Trump didn't like that.

[Steven Rinella]

And then he blocked this water bill.

[Brody]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

The. Laura Boebart was behind Lauren.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. And then she said, well, this is all about Epstein.

[Brody]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

And other people are like, no, it's all about polls.

[Brody]

Yeah. No, I doubt Trump is, like, digging into, like, wolf management in Colorado.

[Steven Rinella]

But, yeah, this is all in Brody's mind. In Brody's mind.

[Brody]

I think it all comes back to the further between.

[Steven Rinella]

Yes, they have beef. They have beef, for sure. Yeah, they have beef. And it's like, hey, we're gonna make your life difficult.

[Brody]

Difficult.

[Steven Rinella]

And. And Polis. And Polis's husband are big wolf supporters.

[Brody]

They are.

[Steven Rinella]

So it could be that he's like, I'm gonna stick it to young wolves, too. No, but he's got in that way, though. This has been the state has, by and large. If they had called me, I would have said, here's what I think you ought to do about wolves. And it would not have been what they did. Yeah.

[Brody]

That, like, they bungled a lot of stuff badly, unfortunately, because I have a lot of, like, love for Colorado Parks and Wildlife. They. I think they do a lot of great stuff. I just think this wolf thing was.

[Steven Rinella]

But this wasn't them.

[Phil]

This guy.

[Steven Rinella]

You can't put it on the architects.

[Brody]

Of this, but they got there. They were in charge of. Of releasing the wolves they like, but under.

[Steven Rinella]

Under duress that.

[Brody]

Look, the director of CPW resigned because he was going to get canned over the. The wolf thing.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. But they did. Just for, you know, I'm telling listeners, you already know the story. There was a. There was a ballot initiative, and the ballot initiative. I can't remember the language, but the ballot initiative, when it passed, it sat in motion.

[Brody]

The.

[Steven Rinella]

The. The state agency. Yeah.

[Brody]

They were.

[Steven Rinella]

They need to make a plan and execute on a plan. And they were very quick to do it.

[Brody]

They were.

[Steven Rinella]

When I talk about the bungling is the world got very complicated for them as well. Yeah. If you remember, because wolves were walking in from Wyoming. It like, everything got weird. And then other states were like, And I don't know why this is other states, like, I'm not giving you wolves. No one besides the state agency directors probably will ever know why that decision was made. I think that Wyoming, Idaho, Colorado would say, I'm not giving you our Wolves.

[Brody]

Not Wyoming, Montana and Idaho.

[Steven Rinella]

Sorry. What I said now if someone could come explain to me, like, what. What phone conversation led to them saying, we're not helping you out by giving you wolves, which we're hunting.

[Brody]

Well, I mean, there, like, there has been word out of Wyoming. They're like, we're not gonna. That help you put more wolves around our borders that come back into it. Yeah, but, like, if you put more wolves in Colorado, more wolves go back.

[Steven Rinella]

Into, like, sure, they'll want to get back home.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So that's. And then. And then they tried to work with. They tried to work with tribal entities.

[Brody]

They did.

[Steven Rinella]

To get wolves. And then, you know, I remember, you know, one was like, hey, you can have some of these ones that were dealing death to cattle.

[Brody]

But they also. The tribal thing didn't work out because they wanted the. The tribal, like wildlife managers in Colorado to be able to have their own management authority over wolves that would end up in Colorado on reservations there. And they didn't agree to that anyway.

[Steven Rinella]

Whether or not it's like the vindictiveness of the administration and they are. I mean, they are some vengeful cats.

[Brody]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, if that is driving this, I don't know, but I like, sure, maybe. But I could picture this becoming an issue because this was a real. This was. Has been a sore. This has been a sore subject for a lot of agricultural producers in Colorado. And these are people that will have the earth, that will have the ear of the administration.

[Brody]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

And basically, they're saying you need to. You need. The mandate to Colorado is you need to operate with a lot more clarity about what's going on and what's your plan and who have you moved, what wolves you moved, where and what did they do?

[Brody]

Yeah. And they've got to provide all that information and. And those plan details by February 18th. So a little over a month from now, we'll have some more information on this.

[Steven Rinella]

Here's the funny part. Here's like, another part about why this. Why their plan is peculiar. Colorado. So they got. What do they got right now? 20 to 30.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Colorado's goal is 30 to 50. They have no mechanism in place. They don't even have a prayer of a mechanism in place to do any population control on wolves.

[Brody]

Right. 30 could.

[Steven Rinella]

When you say 30 to 50, it's like you are just. You are baiting. My kids use this term, rage baiting. Like for me to rage bait, Randall. I don't know. How about I rage bait, Randall. You'd say something to provoke me Say something that was going to piss you off. Yeah, it's easy to rage bait Randall. I was rage baiting you recently about some issue. I can't remember what it was. I think it was like gender issues around sports participation. I was rage baiting Randall. He was sitting right where he's sitting right now, very effectively. I rage baited him. Now, I think when they go and say, like, oh, no, we just want 30 to 50, you're like, rage baiting wildlife managers. Because you're like, how in the world.

[Randall]

Right.

[Steven Rinella]

What do you mean? You don't have a pathway toward doing any kind of, like, control. There's no way in the state of Colorado, under current regular rules and regulations, under the current administration, Colorado will never stop it at that, will never have a hunt. These are the same people that almost just damn near shut down bobcat hunting, mountain lion hunting. Colorado is never gonna have. With. With this governor. Colorado will never have a wolf hunt. So when they're like, oh, we just want 30 to 50, whether they're delisting, but what stops it at 50. Yeah, it's lunacy. It's like you're gonna have. The way you have it set up, you're going to have whatever the carrying capacity of the state is, which is way more than that.

[Brody]

It's a lot, considering how many elk are in the state of color.

[Steven Rinella]

You have hundreds. When you say 30 to 50, it's like, what would get. What would give you that number?

[Brody]

How many. How many are in. In Montana? Do we know?

[Steven Rinella]

700 or something? 800.

[Brody]

Colorado's got twice as many elk.

[Steven Rinella]

Is totally wrong. Man. Don't bleep that out, Phil, till we get the right number.

[Randall]

Over a thousand.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. That's pretty good. Actually. Leave that in there. Can you make that louder? Sure.

[Brody]

But we'll know more in a month.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. If they. So a couple things to watch here is this again. And I don't know what this will happen. Members of Congress are looking to delist. This is where it is.

[Katie]

All.

[Steven Rinella]

All this stuff gets so tricky.

[Brody]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Members of Congress are moving to delist wolves in the lower 48.

[Brody]

So the house already has.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Randall]

So.

[Steven Rinella]

How previous administrations, how wolves have been managed. They've been managed by these distinct populations. So we talk about, well, northern Great Lakes. So the wolves in. In northern Michigan, northern Wisconsin, northern Minnesota, we've toyed with. Do we delist that little clump or not? And then we had this big conversation. Do we delist in.

[Brody]

Well, they did delist. They did.

[Steven Rinella]

But I'm saying we Used to talk about the wolf habitat as chunks.

[Brody]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

So we've had this long argument about the northern Great Lakes list or D list, Northern Rock, sorry, D list or not. And then the Northern Rockies D list or not. And it's been a ping pong. They were in the northern Great Lakes. They were delisted. Then they were relisted. In the Northern Rockies, they were delisted. So you could still be fighting about like, what about this little chunk of ground? What about this little chunk of ground? Now they're saying, you know what, bro, we're done talking about little chunks. We're talking about the country and not argue anymore about the northern Great Lakes or whatever. Just like they're like done with it now. And it's like, this is one of the things, this is one of the things where people in wildlife politics. This is one of the things where people go wrong is you know Maduro, the president of Venezuela, I've heard of him. Right now, now a few days ago he had a great offer. Not a few days prior to him getting detained, he was like, like here, listen, you, your cronies, your family, your henchmen can go. Will drop sanctions and you can leave the country and you can go and do be an exile in Turkey. Take it or leave it. He didn't take it. Now I'm not getting the legality all this. I'm saying they laid it out. He said, nope, not doing it. Now he's sitting in jail in Brooklyn or Manhattan, wherever the hell he is.

[Katie]

Yeah, Brooklyn.

[Steven Rinella]

My message, my message to. My message to people in wildlife politics. You screwed up by fighting the northern Great Lakes. You've screwed up by fighting those agencies and not delisting in the northern Great Lakes. You're screwing up by not delisting grizzly bears in the northern Continental Divide ecosystem and in the Yellowstone, the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Because what's going to happen next is you're gonna, you have a good offer on the table. You didn't take it. And what's going to happen next is you're going to wind up in a jail in Brooklyn.

[Odoo Ad Narrator]

One.

[Brody]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Because they're gonna be like, I'm done dealing with you guys. No wolves are listening.

[Brody]

Blanket. Blanket.

[Steven Rinella]

Because you shoot yourself in the foot by being unreasonable all the time. I don't even know who I'm talking to. Someone.

[Katie]

There are so many.

[Steven Rinella]

Do you follow me?

[Katie]

Oh, I definitely follow.

[Steven Rinella]

It's just, it's like you.

[Katie]

They should have never legality.

[Steven Rinella]

They should have never block the D listing. We're not Going to get into the legality. Right? We talked about this already. No, no, the Galilee. Here's the deal. But what I meant by that, legality, meaning, like, my kid was like, hey, is what they did in Venezuela illegal? And I'm like, anything that happens outside of the country, any conversation about being illegal or legal is. Is like, kind of by what mechanism?

[Brody]

Right, right.

[Steven Rinella]

By what mechanism? Like, as far as I know, Putin's not incarcerated. Right. People like, the invasion of Ukraine was illegal. It's like, okay, well, I guess there's. What are you gonna do?

[Katie]

We have our own.

[Steven Rinella]

Netanyahu's not in jail. Trump's in jail.

[Katie]

We have our own procedure for generally.

[Steven Rinella]

How we enter into conflict our jurisdiction. The point I was making, I said the legality of it is like, within the US we have a system. When. When you start talking about global leaders, we're like, oh, what. What they did in North Korea was illegal. It's kind of like. It's just. It's academic. It's academic.

[Katie]

Well, we have international governing bodies.

[Randall]

Tell that to Slobodan Milosevic.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Or tell that to Maduro. What I'm saying is, generally when you're.

[Randall]

Talking about constitutional law.

[Steven Rinella]

I know, but when you're talking about barring Constitution, when you're talk about global actions, when you're talking about global actions that, like, nation states that take global actions, and then pundits start talking about, I don't even know if this was legal. I just tune it out because I'm like, it's inconsequential. This isn't partisan. I would say it's like, it's inconsequential.

[Randall]

I would say, no, not to make it. I'm not making it partisan, but I would say, like a nation that. That is sanctioned by international bodies and they can't feed people, they suffer consequences for doing things that are illegal under international law. Like, there are. There are. It's when the big guy on the block does it and there aren't consequences. It might still be illegal, but you get away with it.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, but we.

[Randall]

But international bodies enforce international law all the time.

[Steven Rinella]

When Saudi Arabia, whoever in Saudi Arabia, when they killed the journalist Khashoggi, people loved pointing out, boy, that's illegal. Do you think, like, do you think.

[Katie]

They care whether something is, like, illegal?

[Randall]

I don't remember people saying that was illegal.

[Steven Rinella]

It was. I don't remember.

[Randall]

I don't remember. No, but I don't remember. The main talking point being that this is illegal.

[Phil]

Go ahead, send your corrections about this, because I don't.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm.

[Brody]

This is.

[Steven Rinella]

Listen. No one listens to this show. For international. I don't know. I'm not good at international news. What I'm good at wildlife news. Talking about wolves. National News Network. I was trying. Here's the deal. I just made a mistake. I was trying to draw some parallels, and I tiptoed out of my area of expertise by drawing some parallels. The comment I made about the legality is that whether or not like the legality of us nabbing someone that we have under indictment who happens to lead another country, like, I wasn't getting into that. What I was getting at was I was trying to draw parallels between when you. When people. And this. This. This is like a widespread issue. You have a sweet deal going and you don't take it, then you wind up getting stung. My message to people who wolf preservationists and grizzly bear preservationists is, is you've had some very reasonable efforts from your own agency. The U.S. fish and Wildlife Service has moved to delist wolves in the northern Great Lakes, and the U.S. fish and Wildlife Service has moved. The agency, the federal agency in that's responsible for the management of the species has moved to delist for very good reason, like, because it. Because they met the recovery objective. They needed. Animal rights organizations, through legal action, block those delistings. That generates an enormous amount of hostility. And what you will then find is that people in the political world, people in leadership, are going to say, I'm now done playing around. I'm going around. And I'm doing it this way because I'm sick of these little petty, isolated, instant arguments. Agreed. Maduro. Out of it.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

You make a great.

[Randall]

Now, if we still had creative names for podcast episodes, that could be it.

[Phil]

I think that's gonna be good for the algorithm, honestly.

[Steven Rinella]

No, you're right.

[Randall]

And anybody wanting to know about wolf delisting could obviously type in leave Maduro.

[Steven Rinella]

Because here's the deal, man. Yeah, because here's the deal. I am. I am a very avid reader of the news, but there's news that I understand and news that I try to understand. I understand wildlife news in America, but I don't understand. I just read it. Like, I like to follow along, but I don't have an informed opinion about it. So when I start talking about Venezuela, I would advise a listener to just tune out. Don't change. Don't listen to something different, but just turn it down. When I start talking about football, we're on now.

[Odoo Ad Narrator]

Football.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, turn it down.

[Katie]

No football. Turn it up. You were like, you were on a roll earlier today talking about over time.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I tiptoed into some areas I should. We should bleep it all out. I tiptoed into some areas where I don't belong. I was just trying to be helpful. I was trying to be helpful so people would understand.

[Katie]

We love you, Steve.

[Steven Rinella]

I was trying to be helpful. It worked. Is that it for news today?

[Katie]

Yeah, we gotta stay tuned for all these things. These are continuing ongoing issues.

[Steven Rinella]

Let's make a plan, then people can listen in on the plan making. How are we gonna really tackle the whole soup to nuts on federal subsistence program? Go back in history.

[Brody]

We need to do a whole episode on it.

[Katie]

Yep.

[Brody]

You got plenty of people we could be talking to from Alaska.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, I didn't bring up the anachronism Anilka, but Anilka ties into this. This. We're going to tackle it because the reason I want this isn't just for people. Here's, here's why I want to tackle this. A lot of the stuff we talk about on the show is like there's the thing and then there's the sort of context of the thing. And so all these issues and Endangered Species act stuff, wolf delisting, you know, federal subsistence, Florida bear hunting, they're all these little, they're interesting news stories or interesting events and occurrences that had happened. But, but by learning about them, you learn about how the hunting regulations that you live under, like maybe you live in Indiana, which we haven't talked about today, you'll start to go like, oh, that's why stuff is the way it is where I live by watching these things come up. And so it's more than just voyeurism of looking in at what's happening in other states, but it's, I, I feel that it helps you better understand wildlife management where you live or where you go. Like the mechanisms at play, the terminology at play, the, the way that the feds rub against the states and they rub against the non governmental organizations and they rub against the, in the animal rights lobbying arms. Right. It's all, it all helps you put together a national picture of, you know, when you go down to a river and you cast a bait in there and a fish bites and you pull the fish in, you go like, oh, that's why that fish is there. Or that's why I can't keep that fish.

[Brody]

Yeah. And some of these things, like the Florida bear hunt might not seem like it's a national issue, but it is after what's happened in New Jersey and Washington and other places with bear hunting, like I consider it a national thing.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, it's national news, buddy. All right, everybody. You know what else we didn't get into the whole shootout in Michigan over. Oh yeah, we're gonna do a deep dive in the whole shootout Michigan over wild boars.

[Brody]

You're gonna call your buddy Deadly Tedley.

[Steven Rinella]

About text about it. But he. But we text a lot about CWD and he knows that he and I don't agree on cwd so he likes to inundate me with things. Arguing his perspective to be a good one. But he. And because he's he like he. Yeah, we don't see eye to eye on it.

[Katie]

Is there any other. Is there any hog news coming out of other states? I haven't looked into that yet. Like populations.

[Steven Rinella]

No, I don't. Nothing super hot that I'm aware of. But the Michigan, the. We're going to tell the Michigan something.

[Brody]

Happened up in Canada.

[Randall]

We're not still recording, are we?

[Steven Rinella]

Phil, you should probably turn it off. Phil, you turn it off now.

[Odoo Ad Narrator]

Yeah, sure.

[Katie]

Okay, bye.

[Randall]

See, I don't know if no one has their head set on. I have no idea.

[Steven Rinella]

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[Steven Rinella]

Did it move?

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[Steven Rinella]

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