Ep. 826: Like Nuts on a Cat

Summary

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The MeatEater Podcast – Ep. 826: "Like Nuts on a Cat"

Date: January 26, 2026
Host: Steven Rinella
Guests: Kevin Murphy, Seth Morris, Max Barda

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Overview

In this lively and wide-ranging episode, Steven Rinella and co-hosts welcome legendary Kentuckian Kevin Murphy, “the madman from the LBL,” along with regulars Max Barda and Seth Morris. Broadcasting from South Texas, the group dives into topics like hunting traditions, conservation efforts, wild foods, and the often-surprising world of trapping. The episode blends humor, deep-dive discussions, and a passionate plea to support hands-on conservation—most notably Kevin’s ambitious cypress tree restoration project. From skunk lore to bobcat fur auctions and the quirky details of animal monogamy, the show is a blend of laughter, camaraderie, and deep love for all things wild.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions, Fruitcake, and Gunsmithing Lore

• [03:00] Kevin shares the story behind the fruitcake in front of him—a Christmas gift tradition from his gunsmith/duck call maker friend, Hambone, whose family embodies a multi-skilled, old-school outdoors ethos.

2. Wake Boats vs. Habitat: Kevin’s Conservation Crusade

• [04:39] Steven asks Kevin to pitch his "habitat restoration project," which Kevin clarifies is not a war, but a "conflict against recreational boating" that’s destroyed button bush habitat along Lake Barkley.
• Kevin: “Your wake boat is killing Kevin’s fishery. Let’s call it like it is.”
  Steven: “I’m gonna make a T-shirt that says, ‘Your wakeboard is killing my fish.’”
  –[05:14]
• The group discusses the environmental impacts of marina management and recreational boating, including wakeboarding and water skiing, and how drawdowns from the Corps of Engineers changed shoreline habitat.

3. New Podcast Format Announcement

• [08:32] Steven announces a split in the MeatEater podcast starting in March:
  • News & Commentary Show: More frequent, response-driven, covering listener corrections, hunting/fishing news, and social issues.
  • Interview Show: Deep-dive interviews with experts—biologists, authors, researchers.
  • Legacy show "Radio Live" will sunset as the news format integrates its urgent, rapid-fire style.

4. On Audience Feedback and Internet Complaints

• [12:24] Steven discusses the danger of "audience capture"—how excessive focus on complaints can warp content.
• Steven: “There’s a thing called being captured by an audience. … You hear people bitching about stuff and then you change your ways.”
  Max: “You can’t make everyone happy.”
  –[12:24]

5. Corrections of the Week: Skunks, Trapping, and Law

• [15:34] Introduction of the “Correction of the Week” segment, rewarding listeners for catching errors or omissions in previous shows.
• Skunk trapping lore: Although some states list year-round seasons, only a few months yield prime, valuable pelts.
• Jeremiah Johnson myth: Steven disputes the idea that the character is a legendary trapper—humorously, with pushback from a listener.
• Real correction: Texas law does NOT allow unarmed crossing of property lines to retrieve game—you must have landowner permission.

6. State-by-State Game Retrieval Laws

• [22:11] Detailed breakdown of retrieval rights across states using hunting and trapping anecdotes, including a Kentucky story where out-of-state hunters claimed a buck that crossed onto their lease.

7. Skunk Lore: Water Witching, Odor Remedies, and Tall Tales

• [28:11] The panel riffs on water witching (divining for water), skunk essence, and home remedies for skunk spray (e.g., hydrogen peroxide, Dawn, baking soda mixtures).
• Kevin: “My dad could smell that skunk on me from the back of the house as soon as I walked in the door.”
  –[33:26]
• Steven shares the legendary resilience of skunk odor and dreams up using skunk essence as the ultimate prank.

8. The Fur Market & Bobcat Boom

• [41:09] The current bobcat fur market is “crazy,” with high prices for cats with the prized white belly and black spots, especially those from the West and South Texas.
• The group humorously details their upcoming “Steve and Seth Get Rich” project: auctioning bobcat pelts and giving the proceeds to Seth’s unborn child’s college fund.

9. Predator Calling & Bobcat Tactics

• [54:29] Steven recounts calling eight bobcats in with predator calls—all in Texas. Group discusses success strategies, the differences between cats and coyotes, and the quirks of calling at different times of day.

10. Animal Monogamy, Gray Squirrel Invasions, and Ancient Poison Hunting

• [59:26] A quick review of a new Cambridge University study on monogamy in mammals:
  • Humans are “in there with meerkats and beavers”—less monogamous than some rodents, more than sheep.
  • California deer mouse is most monogamous; killer whales and whitetail deer are at the bottom.
• [64:29] Discussion of Britain’s invasive gray squirrel problem and the use of contraceptive-laced hazelnut butter to control populations.
• [70:27] Archaeological news: 60,000-year-old African arrowheads with plant toxins—showing early humans’ sophisticated hunting knowledge.

11. Kevin Murphy’s Habitat Restoration Project

• [81:09] Kevin appeals for volunteers to help plant 2,000 cypress trees along Lake Barkley to restore lost shoreline habitat crucial for crappie and other fishes.
• Kevin: “I need tree huggers, tree planters, wake boarders, people that like to fish... We’re going to plant 2,000 cypress trees.”
  –[81:16]
• The technique has evolved with smaller saplings and staking for survival.
• Biggest threat to saplings? Not beavers—“it’s the deer,” says Kevin; bucks rub their antlers and kill 60% of trees.

12. Announcements & Goodbyes

• Steven wraps with heartfelt appreciation for Kevin’s stories and accomplishments.
• Steven: “Every time— I learn a lot. I love you.”
  –[86:02]
• Optimism for restoration efforts and a (mostly) gentle ribbing about who inherits whose hat when “the day comes.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Steven (on splitting the show format): “We’re drawing in all the brain power and story-making power...to do this more urgent news show.” [10:50]
• Kevin (on wake boats): “Your wakeboard is killing my fish.” [05:14]
• Max (on feedback): “You can’t make everyone happy.” [12:24]
• Steven (on skunk odor): “I don’t think in a lab you could make as pugnacious or resilient of an odor in a laboratory.” [33:29]
• Kevin (on restoration): “I want to do 22 miles [with cypress trees]...My goal in life is to get this started, which I already have.” [82:05]
• Steven (on local deer): “He says they want to rub their antlers on them. They kill them all.” [84:52]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-02:00 – Sponsor messages, upcoming event announcements
• 03:00 – Introductions, Hambone’s fruitcake tradition
• 04:39 – Kevin’s habitat project and the wakeboarding debate
• 08:32 – Announcement of new podcast format
• 12:13 – Audience feedback and complaints discussion
• 15:34 – Corrections of the Week
• 22:11 – Game retrieval stories and law differences
• 28:11 – Skunk remedies, tall tales, and water witching
• 41:09 – Bobcat fur market and trapping stories
• 54:29 – Predator calling and bobcat tactics
• 59:26 – Monogamy in mammals, squirrel news from UK
• 70:27 – Ancient toxin-tipped arrowhead discovery
• 81:09 – Kevin’s cypress tree restoration appeal
• 86:02 – Goodbyes, Kevin’s legacy, closing camaraderie

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Tone & Language

The tone throughout is warm, irreverent, and deeply knowledgeable—a blend of good-natured ribbing, folk wisdom, expert insights, and grassroots activism. The hosts’ exchanges weave storytelling, actionable conservation, and their signature outdoor humor—making this episode both educational and entertaining.

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For more or to volunteer with Kevin’s restoration project, reach out to Kevin Murphy at Small Game Nation on Instagram.

Transcript

[Steven Rinella]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Brent]

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[Steven Rinella]

Year same extra value meals at McDonald's. So now get two snack wraps plus fries and a medium soft drink for just $8 for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery. Hey, before we get started with the podcast, which is a real good one, I want you to know that I'm doing so if you watched on YouTube you watched our Africa series, the Professional Hunter I'm hunting with Morgan Potter. Morgan Potter and I are doing a public event at the Safari Club International Convention in Nashville. This is happening on February 19th, Nashville people. So we're going to do a meet and greet at the Robin Hurt Safari's booth from 9:30 to 10:30 and then we're doing our actual event at 2:00 clock in the Omni Ballroom. After the event, I'll sign any kind of books or take any pictures if anyone wants to do that. What you got to do, just go to the Safari Club International website. All right? To go to the event, to go to the convention, you got to join Safari Clubs. You're joining a conservation nonprofit. You join Safari Club. And as you do that, you'll see a process where you then get a ticket to go to the event that Morgan and I are putting on. All the ticket price goes to sei. Like this is not going to me and Morgan. We're doing it. But your money goes to support SCI wholly and fully. Hope to see you guys there February 19th in Nashville. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwearless.

[Kevin Murphy]

The Meat Eater Podcast.

[Max Barda]

You can't predict anything.

[Steven Rinella]

Brought to you by first light. When I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds no compromise gear that keeps me in the field longer. No shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out@first light.com that's F I R S T L I T.com By God, we're joined here by Everybody's favorite Kentuckian, the madman from the LBL in.

[Kevin Murphy]

The Clark's river bottoms.

[Steven Rinella]

Kevin Murphy.

[Seth Morris]

Don't forget that.

[Kevin Murphy]

Cheers.

[Steven Rinella]

Ladies and gentlemen, Kevin Murphy joining us here in South Texas, sitting with a fruitcake in front of them.

[Kevin Murphy]

Fruitcake made by my master gunsmith and duck dig. Duck call maker, Hambone. His daughter made that. That's a Christmas tradition at their family that she makes fruitcakes and he hands them out to his friends. So.

[Steven Rinella]

So your buddy Hambone makes fixes, guns, makes fruitcake. His daughter makes fruitcakes, and he makes duck calls.

[Kevin Murphy]

Hambone can do anything. He is a oil field mechanic.

[Max Barda]

It's a family business.

[Steven Rinella]

Oil field mechanic.

[Kevin Murphy]

Oil field mechanic.

[Steven Rinella]

He made these metal reed.

[Kevin Murphy]

Duck calls metal reed.

[Steven Rinella]

He's got a metal hand bone. Where's the kit? What ain't that one. Hambone made this. I call it the FFD design.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Do you want to explain what that.

[Seth Morris]

What that means? Leave that to the audience and figure out.

[Max Barda]

I tuned it. I tuned it to my liking.

[Steven Rinella]

That's.

[Kevin Murphy]

I don't think he likes it.

[Steven Rinella]

I wish. I should go get mine.

[Max Barda]

I tuned in.

[Steven Rinella]

You tune it to your likings.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Let me see.

[Seth Morris]

That sounds good.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

Too much air coming out.

[Seth Morris]

You're letting too much air escape.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm letting too much escape now.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. Because it's hitting your mic.

[Max Barda]

That's good.

[Steven Rinella]

That's better.

[Kevin Murphy]

Good.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. It's got a metal read in it. Hambone made that?

[Kevin Murphy]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, Kevin, you're here. We're gonna. We're gonna do. You're gonna. We're gonna get your feedback on a bunch of things I want you to tell about. I want you. And I want you to pitch your. Your habitat restoration project.

[Kevin Murphy]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Which is. I read it as the war against dudes that. Wait, like wakeboarding. It's fine to call it like it is.

[Max Barda]

Dude.

[Steven Rinella]

Let's call it like it is.

[Kevin Murphy]

This is what I call it.

[Steven Rinella]

Your wake boat. Your wake boat is killing Kevin's fishery. Let's call it like it is now.

[Kevin Murphy]

It's more than that. It's. It's the.

[Steven Rinella]

It's worse than that.

[Kevin Murphy]

The. I'm not gonna say war. It's the conflict here against recreational boating that has destroyed our button bush habitat along the. Our lakeshore of Lake Barkley.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm gonna make a T shirt that says, your wakeboard is killing my fish.

[Kevin Murphy]

I believe that.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

It's just.

[Steven Rinella]

Let's call it like it is. I probably got dear friends, you know, like when you use. Like if you say something bad you're like. Some of my best friends are wakeboarders. I think they might be actually.

[Kevin Murphy]

Well, really it's the marine.

[Steven Rinella]

It's. But I think Travis Barton likes that stuff.

[Seth Morris]

Is a wakeboard. Yeah, he's one of those guys when I'm up there on Canyon Ferry trying to have a nice, nice peaceful day.

[Steven Rinella]

No, he goes back. He goes back to Minnesota and destroys habitat. I might be wrong. He's a water skier, but he might not be awake. Board a wake boat guy.

[Max Barda]

Well, the difference between a water ski boat and a wakeboarding boat that. That wake is 10 times, you know, night and day.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm not gonna start beating up water skiers. I come from a long line of water skiers.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah, well, they're part of the problem too. It's recreational bowers and marinas that. There used to be a corps of engineer plan that after July 4th they would start drawing the lake down because Barkley Lake is a flood storage lake. That's what it was built after the 37 flood.

[Steven Rinella]

If we're just going to get into this right now, let's get into this in a minute because I need to. We need to tell the full story.

[Kevin Murphy]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

I just wanted to blame those guys.

[Kevin Murphy]

I thought we was.

[Steven Rinella]

I was gonna wage war on stand up paddleboarders, but I realized I don't have any reason to.

[Seth Morris]

They don't make awake.

[Steven Rinella]

My only gripe with them was I don't. When people start doing a thing that didn't used to exist, I always wonder what they were doing before it existed. Because I don't do the stuff I do people have been doing since the beginning of time recreationally. So when stand up paddleboarding became a thing, all I could think about was what were you doing before.

[Seth Morris]

Pickleball? The only thing.

[Steven Rinella]

Were you doing before pickleball?

[Seth Morris]

The only thing.

[Steven Rinella]

Table tennis. No. What do you mean no? I don't think that those people that are playing. I don't think when you see people playing pickleball. I don't think that a few years ago they were playing table tennis or tennis in general. I think they were watching tv.

[Seth Morris]

Listen, my. Not that I'm for stand up paddleboarding, but just play devil's advocate.

[Steven Rinella]

Very controversial act of stand up back.

[Seth Morris]

I don't. I mean it's not my thing, but whatever. Back in the day when they were. When logging was heavy. Heavy and they're floating logs down rivers, there was always a guy up there with a pole.

[Steven Rinella]

The original sup that.

[Seth Morris]

That stood on the logs and made sure they all. So that's an argument for it just to irritate me. Back in the day, they were doing.

[Steven Rinella]

It just to irritate me, I think just to irritate me. My wife went and bought our kids two stand up paddleboards just to stick.

[Max Barda]

It to me nice.

[Steven Rinella]

And now I gotta like store them and get them out and blow them up and move them around and tie them down to stuff and I gotta.

[Seth Morris]

Use them every once in a while.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

So you've never paddle boarded it? No. So what if you did it and like it turns out you like. Well, I gotta tie them on top of the car all the time for my kids.

[Seth Morris]

That might be your thing when you retire.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You're gonna see me out my yard are gonna be like, what a hypocrite.

[Max Barda]

I'm gonna see you on a lake just paddling around and enjoying yourself. And I'm gonna say, I wonder what he did before warden.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, what that guy used to do. Watch TV all day long. Here's a, here's a deal. Here's a deal to chaw on. We have long talked about at the podcast here, which has been airing for a century. We've long talked about splitting we've long talked about splitting the show into news and commentary and interview. Because now and then we'll have an interview guest on the show and he'll have to sit there. He doesn't know what that, let's say some anthropologist never listened to the show in his life and he easier to talk about like, you know, Clovis research. And he's got to sit there while we talk about the news and, and talk about stand up paddle boarding and Kevin Murphy's fruitcake. So the guy's just sitting there like, oh, you know, he doesn't know, twiddling his thumbs. Not twiddling his thumbs. He feels like he's not in on the joke, whatever. So we talked about splitting the show. We're officially splitting the show starting in March. Starting in March, you're going to see two versions of the Meat Eater podcast pop up. You're going to see Meat eater podcast is going to be the news show which is like news and commentary. Okay. We're going to cover your news. We're going to cover our news. We're going to cover the news. The second drop is going to be the interview show where we have on biologists, researchers, archaeologists, authors. Yeah. Now and then, I know everybody hates it. Now and then a politician will come on the interview show and that'll be a weekly show. The Interview show, the normal podcast where we interview experts in. In various fields of the outdoors. That'll be Mondays, okay? That's the Monday. That's the regular Monday drop that you know and love. Recently we had on a guy talking about his book about the Edmund Fitzgerald, okay? For instance, that which is called the Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald. That's the interview show. That's Mondays as normal, the news show, okay? The new show which again covers your news. So listener feedback, corrections, our news, what we've been up to, making fruitcakes, whatever. And the news, national news, local news, any news that would influence your thinking, influence your actions as a hunter and angler. That's the news show. The new show drops fresh, okay? You've heard us talk about flops where I'm like, why can't we just make an episode and flop there? It comes out as fast as Phil the engineer can get it ready to go, it will drop. So that if we say, hey, in the news yesterday, that's what we're talking about. It just drops. It comes out, whap. Flop. When it's ready, the new show hits. It's just going to be. It hits when it hits, so watch for it. Okay? As part of this, we're drawing in all the brain power. We're drawing in all the brain power and all the story making power of the guys, you know, from Radio Live. But in order to do this more, this more urgent news show, which comes out when news happens every week and it comes out when it comes out, we're sun setting in March, Radio Live, so that we're not held to it being at a specific time. Was it 11 o' clock on Thursdays? Y. Y will no longer be beholden to being like, it's live at 11 on Thursdays. So the guys from. The guys, you know, in the driver's chair at Radio Live are coming over to the news show and we're taking many aspects of that format and bringing it to the news show, which is quicker response time. So Radio Live will sunset in favor of creating a. The news show. The news. Okay, Stay tuned for all that. All the stuff you love. Corrections. Oh, go ahead.

[Max Barda]

I was just gonna say I think a lot of people are gonna really enjoy that.

[Steven Rinella]

I think so. People be pissed. People will like, it's like everything. Yeah, just like everything we had on a guy speak about the, the, you know, you can't. Please.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

You can't make everyone happy.

[Steven Rinella]

We had a guy on the other day, he killed a big huge buck downtown, but he's also running for governor of Ohio.

[Max Barda]

Rob, right?

[Steven Rinella]

Rob St. Yeah, right. He's like, hey, did you. What was the audience response to the interview? And I said, man, I don't look. This is gonna sound terrible. I don't look at comments. I told him I don't look at comments because I don't want to be captured. There's a thing called being captured by an audience. Yeah, right. Like you hear people bitching about stuff and then you change your ways. Yeah.

[Max Barda]

You change your perception, your opinions.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

Your actions.

[Steven Rinella]

Wish I could pull. I'm gonna pull this up. He was talking about the hazard of listening to people complaining. Let me find this. This is interesting. Someone talk about something real quick, but not for too long.

[Kevin Murphy]

What about our dog Art here, boys? Right over my left hand shoulder. I. I don't arch. I'm going to be right behind those three dogs right there.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, Check this out. I don't get why, you know, you get certain dudes that just complain about everything all the time. Well, one guy was saying. One guy commented on the Rob sand episode. Rob sand. Is he. He was discussing his faith as a Christian, and he's also discussing how he's running for governor of Iowa as a Democrat. And the guy in the comment section was like, a Democrat can't be a Christian. I'm like, did you read that in the Bible? So we're talking about, like, people that complain all the time. He sent me this. In 2015, okay, there were 8,760 formal complaints submitted to the Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport about noise pollution. Okay? So 2015, 8,760 formal complaints about noise pollution at Ronald Reagan Airport. 6,852 of them came from a single house.

[Max Barda]

Oh, my.

[Steven Rinella]

In an affluent neighborhood in Washington, D.C. in 2015, that house, members of that household submitted 19 formal complaints per day.

[Max Barda]

Wow.

[Seth Morris]

Geez. Someone has. Oh, my God.

[Max Barda]

Okay, they need to pick up paddle boards.

[Steven Rinella]

The U.S. listen to this. The U.S. department of Education has an office for civil rights, okay? And they enforce civil rights laws related to education funding. In 2023, they received 5,059 sexual discrimination complaints from a single person. So they had a total of 8,151 formal sexual discrimination complaints, of which 5,059 came from one person. So one person accounted for 68.5% of all sexual discrimination complaints in that year. Point being, you got. Watch out.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Where was I going with that? Oh. Anyways, we're launching. When the new news show launches, we're going to launch a contest called Corrections of the week. You can win correction of the week by catching us being wrong about something. And it could be that we're wrong, or it can be an error by omission. Right, an error by omission. And I explained what that means in a previous episode. So here's some corrections from the recent app. I'm going to skip one because we already kind of covered it. And. And the guy's wrong. And the guy's wrong from our most recent episode. What was this one called? We had a recent episode and it. We had a segment on there called Skunks Ruin a Marriage. And I was talking about a guy whose wife wants to divorce him, or his marriage is getting rocky because he's taking up skunk trapping because the skunk prices are so high his wife can't handle the constant smell of skunks around. I comment that I think he just needs to tell her, baby, trapping season don't last all year long. And some smart alec thinks he's got a correction. He looks up. I'm gonna let Seth explain why I'm going to correct his correction. He corrects and says, hey, I caught you. Oklahoma's lists skunks as being open year round. No daily season, no possession limit, no bag limit. So.

[Brent]

Ha.

[Steven Rinella]

You're wrong. Trapping season is all year, Seth.

[Seth Morris]

Their hides are only prime for a certain part of the year.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Turn the correction back.

[Seth Morris]

Only worth money for a certain period of time.

[Steven Rinella]

When they're prime.

[Seth Morris]

When they're prime.

[Steven Rinella]

So correction. In your face, buddy.

[Max Barda]

What are you going to call a corrected? Corrected.

[Steven Rinella]

That's one I don't know. Then I win something.

[Max Barda]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

I win. We give them a prize and then take it back.

[Max Barda]

Take it back.

[Steven Rinella]

This guy says. I was saying. He says he was a guy was saying that. He was like saying, now, I'm no Jeremiah Johnson, but I'm a pretty good trapper. And I said, jeremiah Johnson isn't held out as a good trapper. He doesn't put up big numbers. And I was telling him, if you were like, hey, I'm no John Graham. I'm no Mercer Long. I'm no Craig O. Gorman. I'm no Slim Peterson. I'm no Mike Marziata.

[Seth Morris]

They're good trappers. Maybe he was saying, I'm no. I'm no famous trapper.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. He said, I'm no Jeremiah Johnson. But there's no reason to believe Jeremiah Johnson was ever good at trapping. He catches like he comes in with a beaver one day and his wife acts. His wife looks surprised. It was around that time when he shaved his beard and it was giving her like he had to shave his beard because it was make irritating her face.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He comes in with a beaver and she looks like, oh my God, he got one. I'm not making this up.

[Kevin Murphy]

I know the saying.

[Steven Rinella]

There's another scene where they're out of food and he tells Caleb, his. His boy, the. The mute boy he takes under his wing. He says, take note of where I place those traps and go fetch us some real food. That's it. You don't see him. He don't have a big barn full of 300 beavers he caught.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Kevin Murphy]

You know what?

[Steven Rinella]

There's no reason to believe he's a good trapper.

[Kevin Murphy]

I think that we might. She might have been serving him up some soft gate.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. No, she was always making a flatbread out of cornmeal. He didn't like it. So then this guy comes back. Steve, you are mistaken. There is a scene depicting Jeremiah Johnson as a successful trapper. If you have watched it nearly a thousand times like myself, you would know it's not narrated but clearly depicted. Good luck on future screw ups. Wow, man. This guy like can't win with you. Stick it to me.

[Kevin Murphy]

What?

[Steven Rinella]

There is no. I'm a Jeremy. I'm Jeremiah Johnson through and through. Dude, it's a great movie. There is no reason to believe that Jeremiah Johnson is a good trapper.

[Max Barda]

That's just an opinion. He.

[Seth Morris]

Did he say where in the movie? He has no facts to back it up.

[Steven Rinella]

So in your face, buddy. Good luck on prize withdrawn. Prize revoked.

[Seth Morris]

Good luck on future corrections.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. Joined today by Seth Morris. Howdy, Max Barda. And Chili picante. Not chili picante. Here's a real correction. This is a real flat out good correction. This guy wins correction of the week and this is one I deserve. And it's. He's right. Comes in from Texas Parks and Wildlife law enforcement, from state hq, all the way from the top. Means business, he says. I was listening to the latest podcast this morning. This is an old one. We've been sitting on this one because I wanted to do the correction from Texas so it felt real. I made a comment in a past episode saying that Texas has a law that allows you to cross property lines to retrieve game if you're unarmed.

[Max Barda]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Common law. Where I got that was. I remember we were hunting sandhill cranes up in the panhandle, and I remember I hit a crane and it sailed off, but went down across property lines. My buddy said, go ahead and get it, but Leave your shotgun on this side of the fence. On this side of the fence. A warden wrote in. He says, I'm not telling you that didn't happen. And maybe your buddy had an understanding with the neighbor, but it was just like a permission we got. So maybe my buddy was wrong. He said, I'm not telling you. Your buddy didn't say that. But that's not true. In Texas, you would have to secure permission from that neighbor, armed or unarmed, to cross his fence to do retrieval. That is not. You do not have that right in Texas. There's not a retrieval right in Texas.

[Seth Morris]

Can you do that in South Dakota?

[Steven Rinella]

You can?

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You have to just leave your. Your shotgun or whatever on like you're hunting ditch chickens. Like hunting the ditches in South Dakota, which is legal. If you. If it gets up, flies over, shoot it over the neighbor, someone's property, you can go get it. You can cross that boundary, but you have to leave your gun, like in a public spot. In what state is that? South Dakota. Okay.

[Max Barda]

Can you bring your dog with you too?

[Steven Rinella]

You know, that's a great question. I don't know if the dog is allowed.

[Max Barda]

I'd rather bring my dog over than a buddy.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. Yeah. I'd be curious to know if you could like, just send your. Like send Ruby out there to go. Well, the reason you probably can, because in most places, if a dog. A dog doesn't get sighted for two trespassing.

[Max Barda]

And a dog isn't armed either.

[Steven Rinella]

Y. Well, mine is.

[Kevin Murphy]

Well.

[Steven Rinella]

But. Yeah. Yeah. So just for. For folks to keep mind. This is a real state by state issue retrieval. There's. There's places where retrieval is allowed. I can't think of one of the states, but I. I remember guys saying, look it up. That he lived in a state where retrieval is allowed. But he was saying out of courtesy, he would never do it. Oh, it was the guy that has that little postage stamp piece of ground. What state was he in? Oklahoma. You found his Property? No, no.

[Max Barda]

Dr. Randall on ONX.

[Steven Rinella]

I think somehow Randall found the property. What state was that guy in?

[Max Barda]

Oklahoma, I think it was.

[Steven Rinella]

Either way, it was a state where you. Where retrieval is allowed. So you. You shoot a deer. Deer runs across fence. In this state, you could go get it. So there states where retrieval is allowed. There's states where unarmed retrieval is allowed. There's states where retrieval is not allowed. In states where retrieval is not allowed. I would recommend if you had that situation, you might step one, ask for permission for retrieval. If you are denied retrieval permission, I Would do a step two. And you're not calling up to complain, but a step two would be call your local game warden. Explain to your local game warden, here's what happened. Maybe the game warden, if he's got time, would have better luck having a conversation with the neighbor to say, I will accompany the hunter or will you allow me to go over and, and, and drag it back over. That might be a good step to take.

[Kevin Murphy]

So let me chime in here a little bit, please. You remember Amish Jason? Yeah, went right back with us.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Kevin Murphy]

His family, well, he looks Amish. His family got into a little scuffle. The, the 16 year old son shot a decent buck. It, it ran over to the neighbor's property that was leased to some dudes from out of state.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Kevin Murphy]

And it died. And before they could get it, those guide guys, they scooped it up. The landowner, the, the, the, the rental guys, out of state hunters. And then it's like they kind of had the picture of the deer on the trail camera and then all of a sudden they meet them at the, like at the gas station. They've got the deer in the back of the, of the truck and they're taking pictures and stuff of it. They see it. Then they get the game ward involved and then that's when they find out that in Kentucky there's no, you've got to have landowner permission. When that deer goes over there and dies, it becomes that landowner's deer.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it in Kentucky. Yep. So what wound up happening is deer back.

[Kevin Murphy]

I think eventually got his deer back because the outside hunters here, anyways, it's.

[Steven Rinella]

Like picture the world in which you'd have it stuffed on the wall and be like, oh, sweet, where'd you get that buck? Well, the neighbor kid got it, but I took it from him.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah, the dudes pour in from out of state here in Kentucky now and they pay absorbent prices for land and like three or four thousand dollars a weekend to hunt, to shoot a 125 white tail. And they do not want to go home without something that all the money that they've invested feeding deer. I worked on a project over in Critteney county and I was amazed that come in August, September, all the trucks from out of state that would come in with just a damn pickup load of deer feed and deer feeders on there to start feeding the deer and doing that. So it's a huge industry in Kentucky that everybody is like, it's under the radar, nobody wants to talk about it.

[Steven Rinella]

Nothing worse than a dude hunting out of his own state. You can't say that should be illegal.

[Max Barda]

You can't say that, Tony.

[Steven Rinella]

That's straight from Texas.

[Brent]

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[Steven Rinella]

Guy had this little bit. I just circle back on this skunk situation. Then we're gonna put the skunk situation to bed. This is. I think this is a wives tale. It's like water witching. Kevin and I had a long argument. Kevin believes in water witching.

[Kevin Murphy]

I do.

[Steven Rinella]

I do not.

[Kevin Murphy]

My friend David Johnson, he is a supreme water witcher.

[Steven Rinella]

Don't. Don't take. Don't take the base.

[Kevin Murphy]

He's gonna be on play news.

[Steven Rinella]

Don't. You taking the base, dude. You're taking the bait. I was trying to rage. Bait you.

[Kevin Murphy]

Facts.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. You watched a guy water witch.

[Kevin Murphy]

He's. He's written several. Me and him, we went out there and their zones of concentration got him. Zones of concentration. And that's where the first American hunters. The first Americans, they would build their campsites a lot of times on zones of concentrated water. Sure. Underground, not great flowing.

[Steven Rinella]

What's that have to do with water witching?

[Kevin Murphy]

He can. Once he finds goes down in that like the. The mega complex that we're working on. He went in and water witched it. And that's where we're concentrating our digs. And that's where we found the bottom tusk of a mastodon in the shape of a penis.

[Steven Rinella]

Can't argue that playing that dude. I tell you, I believe everything everybody tells me. So now I'm. Until someone tells me it's fake, I'm gonna tell them it's real. Craig, you know Craig tell my saying Craig, Clay. Clay don't like any kind of thing that has to do with sorcery, you know. So he don't like it when you call it witching. I was telling you this. He calls it dowen because he thinks witching makes it seem like a black art, a dark art. Anyhow, skunks guy writes in to say this. This isn't a correction, it's a hot tip. He says, my dad trapped skunks during World War II for the government. He'd sell them to the government, he says, to make parka hoods. Yeah, that could be true. They had a skin and shed off the barn and it have a fire burning in a barrel. It would throw a wet slice of. This is. I'm going to read this verbatim because he's. He's got some clever punctuation in here, which is proper, he says, and would throw a wet slice of, I'm pretty sure, alfalfa hay on the fire to make it smoky. Continuing the quote. That would kill the skunk smell in the skin and shed off the equipment as well as the skins. I don't think so. I think it would.

[Max Barda]

Mass the scent a little.

[Steven Rinella]

It would. It would complexify the odor. Yeah, I would. I think it would complexify the odor. I don't know that it would neutralize the odor. Well, you're just mixing different smells together. Yeah, you're mixing smells. That's all you're really doing. There's some good. When I was a kid, the lore was tomato juice. Now the hot money, and I think it's legit. The hot money is like hydrogen peroxide, dawn dish, dawn dish detergent. And there's a third bacon soda and you make a frothy shampoo. And skunk trappers, when they get one, it'll spray. You'll legit. They'll make up that little concoction. I've tried it and I thought it was like it didn't eradicate the smell. But they'll make up that concoction and no joke, give that skunk a little bath and it's frothy. You scrub them down in it.

[Max Barda]

Interesting.

[Kevin Murphy]

So.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, maybe we should try that. Save his marriage.

[Seth Morris]

I got sprayed by skunk one time and just left my clothes outside for months until they smelled.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

Eventually just went away.

[Steven Rinella]

I had a guy tell me a story. You might have been there when he told us the story. He threw some clothes out in the yard because it got sprayed by a skunk and waited so long that the upward facing part of the clothes had begun to bleach. So that he said when he lifted it up, you could tell the parts of the clumpered up, crumpled up clothes. You could tell the parts that had got sun bleach and the parts that hadn't because it got like a tie dye appearance to it. And he said he smelled that son of a. And still smelled like skunk.

[Seth Morris]

Oh, really?

[Steven Rinella]

That's what he said. It's what he said.

[Kevin Murphy]

I've got a good skunk story.

[Steven Rinella]

Please. Sure you do.

[Max Barda]

With all your dogs.

[Kevin Murphy]

It's probably like 1980, 79, maybe 81. Fur prices up pretty high. And everybody was trapping and had some kind of mongrel dog and stuff. And I had a dog named R.T. and we'd go out at night and, man, you could get $6 for a big possum then. So we had got out one night and roamed around. And he loved to catch a skunk. And he'd got into a skunk. And I come back home and it was probably like 11:30, 12:00 clock at night. I'm creeping in the door, open up the door. Still living with my mom and dad and. And we got a pretty good sized house and they're on the like, very back end. And like, I know more than get like 10ft in the house there. And my dad's screaming at me to tell me to take my clothes off, that he can smell that skunk on me. Mm. I go back outside, strip my clothes off and go in and take a shower. But I mean, it was that quick. Just as soon as I hit the door.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Kevin Murphy]

They got the back of the house, they could smell that.

[Steven Rinella]

It is. It is just. I have immense respect for that solution, that liquid in a skunk that. I mean, there's you. I don't think that a human could make. I don't think in a lab you could make as pugnacious or resilient of an odor in a laboratory.

[Seth Morris]

That stuff too. Like, when you smell skunk at 100 yards, it smells like skunk. But when you really get in there, it turns into something different.

[Steven Rinella]

My dream is to get real mad at someone and skunk them. Well, I just want to take a hypodermic needle, skunk, and just give a. A little and put that. Inject it into their car seat.

[Max Barda]

Oh, gosh.

[Steven Rinella]

Because, you know, can you imagine? They would look and look and look.

[Max Barda]

And couldn't find it, right? Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They would never stop looking and they'd never find it.

[Max Barda]

What's that liquid even called?

[Steven Rinella]

Skunk scent.

[Max Barda]

Well, you know, they call it.

[Steven Rinella]

If you went to buy it, if you went to buy it, you'd Be buying some skunk essence.

[Max Barda]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Right now I'm making a thing called.

[Max Barda]

I'm not in the market.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I am. We've had it. Well, we've g. We sold it in the auction house of oddities. What did it go for?

[Seth Morris]

I don't remember.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm making a thing right now called the Nelson Formula. It's a. It's a coyote bait formula I'm making. And the first step is you grind bobcat meat and you put it out to taint. You put a taint on it. Chili thought it. Chili literally put his taint on it, not realizing that. What I meant was you put it.

[Seth Morris]

He thought it was. He thought it was taint.

[Steven Rinella]

When I said, we're going to put a taint on it, I'm just out there, spread eagle.

[Seth Morris]

Turned around, there was chili.

[Steven Rinella]

I said, no, no chili. Hold on. We were going to rot it ever so slightly. Not going to put it. We're going to let it taint. We're not going to put a t. Good initiative, bad judgment right there. But that's the guy, he's quick, you know, you tell him to do something, he doesn't. I'm putting a taint on it.

[Max Barda]

Right?

[Steven Rinella]

This is part of a broader project. This is part of a book pro. This is part of a book project I'm beginning about the. The. The. The. The history of. And characters involved in America. The American fur trade through time, right? Since the beginning of time. When they established Manhattan, it was a beaver. They established Manhattan, it was like a beaver trading outpost, right? So as part of this thing, just like a fun little bit, I'm making this very famous bait formula called the Nelson Formula. Step one is you take some bobcat meat, chunk it up or grind it down, and then rot it in your garage for a long time. You take a glass jar, fill it, glass gallon jar, fill it 2/3 full and start rotting it down. The other day, I was making my daughter and her friends smell it. They want me to make, oh, Yanni's daughter, Mabel and Rosie, they wanted me to make smash burgers for dinner. And I told them I was going to make cat smash burgers out of that smash burgers. I make him smell it. My daughter, dude, she wouldn't go near that jar. And Brian's daughter stuck her nose right in there.

[Max Barda]

What else is in the bait?

[Steven Rinella]

So then once you get, you make a solution. So you make. You grind up the cat meat and let it taint. Then you make a solution in another jar. And the solution is comprised of Purine water, fine red fox piss. Valerian root, some other root called like a feta. Some people say it gives you the shits and some people say it cures the shits.

[Max Barda]

I wouldn't want to try it out.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. Want to clarify that before?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I ordered some. It was hard to find.

[Max Barda]

I'm sure.

[Steven Rinella]

A tincture. So it's been a word I don't like, tincture. A tincture of this root that goes in there. And in the Nelson formula, it was real smudge and I couldn't tell if it meant 12 ounces or a half ounce. And Mercer Long told me definitely a half ounce. You don't put 12 ounces of that stuff in there. Fox. So I said, fox, skunk essence, beaver caster, valerian root, this other root. What else is in it? That's it. And I took a bunch of beaver casters and cured them in moonshine. Seth seen that? I took a sip of it and it took me eight hours to get that taste out of my mouth.

[Max Barda]

I can imagine.

[Seth Morris]

But you haven't had that moonshine.

[Steven Rinella]

Dude, you.

[Max Barda]

I bet he has.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

If someone had it in him, drink.

[Kevin Murphy]

The hydrometer on it to test it to see where it goes.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

If someone had it in him to drink enough of that moonshine to get drunk off that beaver caster moonshine, I would have a lot of respect for that individual. Yeah.

[Max Barda]

You might even grow a tail.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. So that's the Nelson. Why am I even talking about this? The Nelson formula. The hell's I talking about? Talking about ingredients. The one part I don't have is the skunk essence. I gotta go secure me some skunk essence.

[Seth Morris]

We've had years where we couldn't get away from skunk. I know.

[Steven Rinella]

Thicker, thin.

[Seth Morris]

Not this year.

[Steven Rinella]

Rich and poor.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Speaking of bobcats, I got two other observations about bobcats. Doug Duran introduced me to my favorite saying. He was talking about two guys being real good friends. And Doug said they're like nuts on a dog.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

A true friendship would be like nuts on a cat. That is a tight true friendship.

[Seth Morris]

That's real tight.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, that's true. That's a truer friendship than nuts on a dog.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. They're just always.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Guys that are very close with one another.

[Seth Morris]

They're not like the bulls that's out here.

[Steven Rinella]

No, it's not a bull. I mean, they're friendly.

[Seth Morris]

Sometimes they separate a little bit, but they always come back to you.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

I was buying each other nuts on a cat.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Like nuts on a bighorn sheep. Like, oh, so they. They're like, they're in touch. They're in contact. Big text now and then they have each other's email. But like, nuts on a cat is. You're like, last thing on bobcats. How much have we talked about this whole bobcat situation down here podcast? No, no, no. Not so much what we're doing down here, but just like, I feel like I've been like, living. I've been like, very. I gotta move away from it. I've been too obsessed with bobcats lately. It's starting to interfere with my marriage, my professional.

[Seth Morris]

It's kind of all we.

[Steven Rinella]

I know.

[Seth Morris]

But everything we text about, texted about in the last three months has been bobcats.

[Steven Rinella]

After the auction. After the fur auction, I'm setting all. I'm. I can't go on, like, I can't till next year. Yeah. It's just like, it's interfering with my personal life. It's interfering with my family. It's interfering with my job.

[Seth Morris]

So I should stop sending you trail cam pictures.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't want nothing to do with bobcats after the auction.

[Seth Morris]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

It's just been very interesting to me as we talked about that, like, bobcat, I've always been. I. I'm always interested in the fur markets. And as we covered. Skunk prices are high right now, and bobcat prices are very high right now.

[Kevin Murphy]

I've got a very interesting book for you. I was going to bring it on the strip, but I forgot it. And the title of it is the Bobcat of North America.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I'd be more in. I. I'll take a look.

[Kevin Murphy]

See, you'll. You'll gleam a lot of information.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, I might not.

[Kevin Murphy]

You will.

[Steven Rinella]

I might not.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah, it goes.

[Steven Rinella]

You want to know why I might not?

[Seth Morris]

I do.

[Max Barda]

We're good. I was just checking.

[Steven Rinella]

It's because. Listen, man, I'm not hacking on. I'm just saying because it's from 1960, so that's great. But it's like, it's gonna lack a lot of the stuff. Modern coloring data. A lot of, like, so much of what we know about how stuff moves is new.

[Max Barda]

Okay.

[Kevin Murphy]

I'll give you that. That part of it.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Kevin Murphy]

But it's based on history and what they knew about bobcats when guys just lived in the woods.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Kevin Murphy]

Not a biologist. A guy that maybe made his living from the bounty on bobcats. Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

No, I understand.

[Kevin Murphy]

So when money gets involved, people find out how works. How can we catch every damn one of them out there?

[Seth Morris]

That should be a bumper Sticker on your car.

[Steven Rinella]

He's got a pro. He's got a hole. Keeps the lights on. Bumper sticker on his car.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

He's gonna switch that out with.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, that's true of cold.

[Seth Morris]

That's true.

[Steven Rinella]

Everything there is to learn about coal.

[Kevin Murphy]

Let's timber. They are first. And we'll do the other planets later, you know.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, that's your. Yeah, yeah. I agree with what you're saying about the money thing, but I, I don't, I, I, we need to be. This is a whole other subject. We need to be all done cutting old growth. Listen, I don't want to debate it with you.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah. I would say I got too much.

[Steven Rinella]

Respect for you to sit here and.

[Kevin Murphy]

Debate with you part of it there. I used to be like the guy I hated loggers, timber cutters and all that.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm not saying that.

[Kevin Murphy]

And then we've got to manage our forest.

[Steven Rinella]

Yes.

[Kevin Murphy]

There's a place for old growth and there's a place to manage our forest. So we, we, we able to build nurseries for all types of animals.

[Steven Rinella]

Listen, man, here's the deal. I'm not even gonna tell you I disagree. That's fine. I'm gonna let you say that I don't agree.

[Kevin Murphy]

You know, some people come into Kentucky and they'll go into a forest and they call it old growth. And it's like 100 years old. Like LBL.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I don't, I don't.

[Kevin Murphy]

This is old growth. It's not old growth. When they came in to make iron and steel up there, they use the forest for fuel. They made charcoal.

[Seth Morris]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Out of that, the bull.

[Kevin Murphy]

And they cut everything down. So the oldest tree up there is probably less than 100 years old.

[Steven Rinella]

Well, that's not old growth.

[Kevin Murphy]

That's not old. But they classified as old growth. And then they petition the keyboard warriors. The one dude in there that is cranking out 14 emails a day saying save our old growth forest in LBL or whatever force is in Kentucky that's been already been harvested. It's not original old growth forest. Yes. Anything original old growth. I'm 100%. Let's keep that baby.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I 100 for, for habitat to make up for the fact that we're not using fire like we used to use. I'm all for managed forests. There's a lot of areas. Northern Michigan. Well, much of Michigan. Michigan's upper peninsula. Like, I could sit here and list places all day long that had, that had much better wildlife habitat for native wildlife when they were Actively logging because you need different structures and age growth and all that. I'm 100%, I am not a hands off guy. Most forests are disturbed. They require active management. You're not going to put the genie back in the bottle. Mankind has already gotten in there and whack things up and mankind can do things to fix things. However, and not to disrespect anyone on the economic end of it, not to disrespect the logger who's making a living. I don't think that when it, when it comes to 4 year, 5 year or 5, 400, 500, 600 year old trees at this point, they're more valuable standing there.

[Kevin Murphy]

I agree with you. I'm 100% with you on that part.

[Steven Rinella]

Back to bobcats.

[Kevin Murphy]

Back to bobcats. You know, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, a bobcat guy. Man, when I was, I got great. Some great stories today when I was a kid that was on my hit list. And in Kentucky they didn't become legal till when the cites thing come along. They didn't become legal to like 90, 91, 92 ish. They got off the list. You couldn't hunt them. You could hunt them at one time and then the cities came along and all that. They took them off and they were restricted. But I remember as a kid going to Doc Mosley and Doc Mosley was part of the Manhattan Project. He went into hot Japan right after they dropped him. But I remember going to Doc Mosley's office, getting a shot in the ass with some pill and selling for $5. And I looked up there and he had two like kitten bobcats. I mean just little bitty. I mean most bobcats you see would be like small. But I was always intrigued with them. And then I remember one day that me and Brookie Wicker, we had camped out all night and we got up early.

[Steven Rinella]

Is that a girl or a guy?

[Kevin Murphy]

It's a guy. We. He had a sister named Julie, Jenny and one more. Remember I can tell you another story about.

[Steven Rinella]

Keep it.

[Kevin Murphy]

GW Terrell said. I'll put it in layman's turn. GW Terrell said that Scott Wicker should have a medal for raising good looking women. Just read into that.

[Steven Rinella]

A Nobel Prize.

[Kevin Murphy]

So, so me and Brookie, we've camped out all night and we're on the edge of Lake Barkley and we go up Poplar Creek and we take our.22. He's got a Winchester 61 blown to his dad's, got his initials engraved in it SW somebody with some really skill with the engraver, not you. And then I've got the Bronco.22 survival rifle. It's like all metal, skeleton frame, and it flips up. So we go out and we're shooting. 20 twos. We're killing this and killing that. There is this black bird, probably like, I don't know, 40 yards. Way good.

[Max Barda]

A good.

[Kevin Murphy]

A good piece. I bet you can't shoot that right there. And I go up and I take the bronco up and I squeeze off a shot. He said, oh, you didn't get it. And about that time, the blackbird falls out of the tree. We take 10 steps, and here comes a bobcat trotting across the road in front of us. 20 yards, turns and looks at us. We got no. 22 shells, so you'll never catch me with less than 100 pack.

[Max Barda]

You throw a gun at it.

[Kevin Murphy]

True story. 100% true. So then I went from there, and I started running with this guy named Jimmy McCoy. And he was obsessed with bobcat honey. Travel the whole United States, from Maine, Wisconsin, Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Oregon, you name it. Bobcat hunt. Finding out what he needed to know about bobcat told me it took him 10 years before he could. He could catch a bobcat on his own.

[Steven Rinella]

With hound dogs.

[Kevin Murphy]

With hound dogs in Kentucky because we get limited amounts of snow. At that time, some of his hunting was, like, under the radar. So like I said, he's the one that petitioned to get the bobcat legal. Trapper came in, a biologist, and he. And he told him everything that he knew about him. So in the late 89 or so, I started hunting with him and learning how they do running dogs. We might go a whole season and not even catch one with dogs.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Kevin Murphy]

And killing. And then I got a dog from him. I had another squirrel dog, the original Butchie. And within probably three years, I was able to catch one on my own with the knowledge that I got from him.

[Steven Rinella]

Is that the one you caught sneaking out ahead of the dogs.

[Kevin Murphy]

Now? That was with him.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Kevin Murphy]

I had his dog pack, the one with. They got my kid Seth and I showed you a picture of hanging from a slippery m tree. Yep, that's the one. That was my first one. Let's see. That's the first one. I truly. I'd ambushed some with some dogs, like road hunt down the road. And they would push like a young kitten up a tree and just go in there and shoot it. But I intentionally turned loose on that. That big boy, £24, and caught him with the dogs.

[Steven Rinella]

Got it. Got it. Right now, cats are real hot. This is kind of part of this whole deal I'm wanting to talk about with cats. Cat prices are very high. So it just got me interested in, like, this whole range of cats. So we're down here in south Texas, and we just got some cats down here in south Texas. Predator calling for cats. We caught some cats up in Montana. These are very, very different extremes. Cats up Montana are much bigger. Thicker fur cast down in Texas are slender, lighter, thinner fur. But what makes a cat valuable or not is whether or not it has a white belly with clean black spots. Tex. Cats in south Texas and cats in. In Montana have white bellies and black spots. So they're of value just for. For a point of reference. When I was actually. When I actually sold fur and would trap and sell fur in Michigan, growing up, at a point in time when a red fox was worth 40 bucks, a bobcat was worth $15, because those bobcats out there aren't valuable because they don't have white bellies and black spots. They don't. They're not a spot. They're not nicely spotted. But right now, cat prices are crazy. Cats are consistently averaging more than 500 bucks in the west right now. And there's some collections of cats selling at 800 bucks a piece. Okay. Other poor areas of cats. Cats are running one to 200. So Seth and I are making a video called. It's gonna be called Steve and seth get rich. And we're taking some Montana cats and some Texas cats, and we're going to a famous bobcat auction, One of the top bobcat auctions in the country. I'm not saying where we're going, but we're going to one of the top bobcat auctions in the country. Seth can't go because his wife's having a baby. He's being a baby about it.

[Max Barda]

You and I are going.

[Steven Rinella]

Me and Max are going. Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

Thanks for stepping in.

[Max Barda]

No worries. I got you.

[Steven Rinella]

Me and Max are going to the auction, and we're going to auction off Texas cats and Montana cats. We're going to do a video. We're explaining the cat market, and in it, we're going to interview one of the top bobcat buyers. We're going to go to one of the top cat auctions in the country and interview one of the top cat buyers in the country and interview one of the top cat trappers in the country. It's gonna be called steven, seth get rich, and we're taking all of our wealth from this sale. And we're putting it into Seth's unborn baby Virgil's bank account.

[Max Barda]

Right?

[Steven Rinella]

Bank account, yeah. College account. I don't want them blowing it on cigarettes. You're gonna earmark it for his education or comparable. It doesn't need to be college, but. Or comparable. Comparable.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. Educate. Further education or if he wants to start a business or whatever After. After, yeah, high school.

[Steven Rinella]

He wants to learn how to weld pipe. He can use it for that. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah.

[Max Barda]

It's very nice of you, Steve, to contribute.

[Steven Rinella]

That's what we're putting all of our wealth.

[Seth Morris]

Very nice.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. My own children very unhappy about this development. They overheard me talking about it. That's what. That's what. So anyways, we got some cats down here in Texas. We've been predator calling cats. I to date have called in in my lifetime have predator called in during daylight hours. At this point now a total of eight that I know about down here fall in Texas.

[Seth Morris]

All in Texas.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

I never called in a cat in the north.

[Max Barda]

Yeah. Because you can't call for them in Montana.

[Steven Rinella]

You can't use an electronic caller that.

[Max Barda]

Yeah. You can't use it.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Mouth blow and call.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

We. We one time called a cat in by accident in Pennsylvania calling coyotes. Oh, you did?

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I called him in turkey hunting. Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

But I've called him in turkey, but.

[Steven Rinella]

I'm not coming those. I'm talking like intent to call. Yeah, like intent to call.

[Max Barda]

Well, just this trip.

[Kevin Murphy]

Four.

[Steven Rinella]

Four and the four last time I tried it.

[Max Barda]

What about the one that you ended up shooting last time?

[Steven Rinella]

That was one of the four.

[Max Barda]

That was one of the four.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. I've laid eyes on try while trying to call bobcats in daylight hours. I've called in eight.

[Max Barda]

Do you find there's a sweet spot in the day?

[Steven Rinella]

I. I can't make that call on it. Yeah. I'll tell you what I haven't done after. What I haven't done yet is called one in at daybreak. No. Well, part of a pet theory of mine. Go ahead.

[Seth Morris]

Well, I was gonna say on. On day one, the two cats that you killed was the last stand in the morning and the first stand in the afternoon.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

It was like bankers 10 to 3.

[Seth Morris]

And then the cat that I killed the next day was the mid morning. It was the. The later stand.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Seth Morris]

In the day.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And Mercer Long, who's called in a great many cats. Mercer Long was saying to me, it's amazing how many call in at noon. You know what winds up being. It's almost like. It's like when you review in your head the turkeys that you get. Oh yeah, not the turkeys you try to get, but the turkeys that just come in hard bankers hours.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Max Barda]

But guess what? You're still going right at the ass crack of dawn.

[Steven Rinella]

You're still up there at dawn. Yep. You're still up there at dawn. Yeah, I think there's something about that. I don't know. Like this is like a pet theory of mine. I don't really know. A bobcat comes in with a very different attitude than the coyote at daybreak. You call in a lot of coyotes? Yeah, I don't know. And a cat comes in pretty paranoid. Maybe there's something like they don't want to.

[Max Barda]

Wrestle around coyote or something, you.

[Steven Rinella]

Know, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they don't like. Maybe. Maybe there's something to do with cows. There's a thing too with rattling deer. Like when you rattle bucks down here, you rattle more bucks down here midday than early morning. I feel. Do you not feel that way?

[Seth Morris]

The mornings are more productive for rattling, I think here, daybreak, like daybreak up until you quit. Midday.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay.

[Seth Morris]

And the evenings. Evenings are not as productive.

[Steven Rinella]

What I was gonna say there is. I always felt that bucks are bored late morning.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Not bored. They're not chased. Their does are bedded down. And he's more like, yeah, I'll walk over and take a look. It's like if creeping in on a bull. Like creeping in on a bull where. Like a bull with a bunch of batted cows. You creep in on him. And like late morning, midday. I feel he's more. He's gonna. He's like more likely to come have a look. Then he is when his cows are on the move and he's like, I'm not like, I gotta pay attention over here. I can't get up, can't lose it. But like late morning, he might be like, yeah, go take a look. Everybody's kind of chill. Holding still. I might go have a look. See a study just came out. You want to pay attention to this, Kevin, that puts cats to bed, right? Stay tuned for our video. Yep.

[Kevin Murphy]

Steven, Seth, Get Rich and Bobcats of North America facts.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep. We're also making a video. It's pretty much done is. It's called armor ganzers. Really as bad as everyone says.

[Brent]

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[Steven Rinella]

A study that just came out. They ranked monogamy of dozens of mammals, including humans. Humans are less monogamous than some mice, but are more monogamous than some breeds of sheep. This is out of Cambridge University. All it looks at is it looks at full versus half siblings in a range of mammals. You following me? Full versus half siblings. Species and societies with higher levels of monogamy are likely to produce more siblings that share both parents, while those with more polygamous or promiscuous mating partners are likely to see more half siblings.

[Kevin Murphy]

Is that based on collared specimens?

[Steven Rinella]

No.

[Kevin Murphy]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

Genetics, right? When it comes to our level of monogamy. Human monogamy. When it comes to our level of monogamy, we're in there with meerkats and beavers. Oh, great. We're in there with meerkats and beavers and they're even going back in time. They're able to go back to Bronze Age burial grounds in Europe, Neolithic sites in Anatolia. Ethnographic data from 94 human societies around the world, from Tanzanian hunter gatherers to rice farming cultures in Indonesia. Okay. A wide swath of human cultures. You want to know what the most monogamous critter is out there? The most monogamous mammal. Take a guess.

[Kevin Murphy]

I got a swan.

[Steven Rinella]

Nope. Oh.

[Seth Morris]

I was gonna say sandhill.

[Steven Rinella]

No.

[Max Barda]

Is it a bird?

[Steven Rinella]

They're nothing. The California deer mouse. They are strict, strict, strict monogamy. African wild dogs, very monogamous. Mole rats, very monogamous. Ethiopian wolves, very monogamous Eurasian beavers. So? So the California deer mouse has a 100. Okay. Top rating, 100. Highest 100. Ethiopian wolves come in at a 76.5. The eurasian beaver, 72. 9. Humans, 66. And then a mere cat and a gibbon. We're kind of like them. Gray wolves, less mono. Significantly Less monogamous is than us.

[Max Barda]

I wonder if they.

[Steven Rinella]

Mac.

[Max Barda]

Keep going.

[Steven Rinella]

Very low. Monogamy 18.

[Seth Morris]

What's the lowest?

[Steven Rinella]

I don't know. Feral cats.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

No. Here we're getting down. Oh, geez. The Antarctic fur seal, dude. They don't give a care. 5% 2 point niner. Killer whales don't care.

[Seth Morris]

I'd imagine Whitetails don't care.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. Killer whales. Skirt chasers.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

White Tail, 3.3. The Savannah Baboon doesn't care. Chimps.

[Seth Morris]

Getting around.

[Steven Rinella]

Open door policy. Gorillas. Open door policy. Ditch cougars. Feral cats. 16.

[Max Barda]

I wonder. So, like, some of the higher ratings. Some of the higher ratings. Are they measuring, like, what if, like their partner dies?

[Steven Rinella]

That's all. Yeah. Because that would be like.

[Max Barda]

Is that how they're doing the study or.

[Steven Rinella]

It's just. It's just siblings and half siblings. Okay. So if you get into like. If you get into the, like the. The California deer mouse. Yep. A collection of progeny. All their parents. Same two parents.

[Max Barda]

Gotcha.

[Seth Morris]

Right?

[Max Barda]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

I mean, I got all kind of half brothers and sisters. Right. So I'd throw the whole thing off. Here's. You want some squirrel news, Kevin?

[Kevin Murphy]

I'm ready for some squirrel news. Hit me.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. This is from the Economist. I didn't know this in Britain. I was making a joke there to a buddy of mine in California. We were talking about, like, Britain is trying to ban pretending to fox hunt.

[Seth Morris]

Jeez.

[Steven Rinella]

Like, they ban fox hunt. So then these dudes get where they take a doll basically, and put fox odor and drag that around.

[Max Barda]

Pretended.

[Steven Rinella]

And they pretend to fox hunt. But now and then they'll be out pretending to fox hunt, and the dogs start chasing the real fox that are trying to ban pretending to fox hunt. My buddy in California, I said, britain is like the world's California. And he laughed. But this has nothing to do with that. So Britain has a pine squirrel, or they call it a red squirrel. They got a little in red squirrel. I didn't know this. They have invasive gray squirrels.

[Kevin Murphy]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Now, as I've talked about many times, I was raised to believe that pines red squirrels bite the nuts off gray squirrels in. In. And make them eunuchs.

[Max Barda]

Is there any truth to that, Kevin? No.

[Steven Rinella]

It's a wives tale. It's like. It's like witch and water. You said you believed in it. It's untrue.

[Kevin Murphy]

Now the gray squirrels are really impacting England.

[Steven Rinella]

I had no idea.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

They NOW have estimated 2.5 million invasive gray squirrels in England. And their native squirrel numbers are down to 39,000. They've got a thing. They found that. They got a. They got a thing. They've identified how they're going to try to curb this. They found that gray squirrels have a real hunger for hazelnut butter.

[Max Barda]

They poisoning the hazelnut butter.

[Steven Rinella]

They've established a red squirrel recovery network. This is, this is researchers within the government's Animal, Plant and Health Agency. They're loading, you know, because it's Britain, so they're not gonna put poison in it. They're loading it with contraceptives. Okay, this is like one. This is when, like, this is what happens when, when ecology restoration of native species habitat work runs up against, like radical animal rights elements. When you have to start talking about that you're going to use contraceptives. It's like with the wild horse problem. You can't talk about killing them. They're always talking about, well, maybe we can give them contraceptives. And we'll have to catch every one and give it an update every six months to make sure it doesn't have any babies. So they have this contraceptive bait and they have. They're developing a feeder that the squirrel has to have a certain mass, it has a certain weight in order to get into the freezer. So 90 of adult gray squirrels are heavy enough to activate it to get the bait. A red squirrel, he tries to go eat the contraceptive, he can't get the bait. Previously, they've focused their efforts on culling gray squirrels where they say it's been expensive. I can only imagine physically culling. I'm guessing they don't mean like, not physically, but I guess they mean not through poison campaigns, but through shooting them. And granted, I get the poison thing. You could have. I get it. Yeah, I get it. You could have stuff getting in there, then you got toxins laying around. I had no idea. Kevin, you and your dogs can maybe go raise hell over there.

[Kevin Murphy]

You know, I have a few people on Instagram and they'll send me occasional picture of them going on a squirrel hunt. I just recently got one from a family and they had a young son and he had his dog. Four or five gray squirrels had the. The. His daughter had a red Rider BB gun and they hunted there. And I asked him, says, hey, just tell me a little bit about your firearms over there. Says, how hard is it to get one? He says, we can get a shotgun pretty easy. Nope, not much hassle. But he says to get a rifle, like five years to get one. And he said, you've got to have A specific purpose. Probably own some land before you can get. Get a rifle, shotguns. Pretty easy. But yeah, I have a few people send me stuff from over there on the gray squirrels going out.

[Steven Rinella]

Have you ever heard of anybody over there squirrel dogging?

[Kevin Murphy]

They had a dog. I don't know if it actually treed, but it helped help them in the hunt. And some of the hunt clubs, they organize hunts now to go out, and they do that Poland thing. And they'll go in and harvest a big, big bunch of squirrels.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep, here's. Here's a good one. This is from the journal Nature. This takes a little bit of background. So in the journal Nature, these researchers that working in South Africa, okay, have found arrowheads, stone arrowheads that they have dated to 60,000 years, that contain plant toxins. Let's back up. What are you guys all staring at?

[Max Barda]

I'm looking at the cameras, making sure they're rolling for Phil.

[Steven Rinella]

I thought maybe it was time we had to leave.

[Seth Morris]

Well, we're getting there.

[Steven Rinella]

Give me a minute here. You can't age, so someone should go read this. Because you can't age a stone point, you have to. You can only age it by context. Like, you can't take Diet Kevin's.

[Kevin Murphy]

Give me the amateur archaeologist here. I just come off.

[Steven Rinella]

No, no, no, you're right.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yes, there are luminescence tests. I don't know how they work.

[Steven Rinella]

I don't know how accurate attributes. Okay. Oh, so you're talking about actually aging the stone.

[Kevin Murphy]

Actually, it just. Stone some kind of luminescence. And I just.

[Steven Rinella]

The last time it was exposed to sunlight or something like that, I just found out.

[Kevin Murphy]

I don't know any dynamics about it whatsoever, but that's how they age those artifacts that don't have carbon 14 or anything with them.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay, so. So they're the. These reason. And I haven't read the piece. Okay. 60,000 years. And they're finding plant toxins on stone points in South Africa from 60,000 years ago. When you get into like this idea, the numbers switch. But there's, there's. There's this term people use of, like, anatomically and behaviorally modern humans. Meaning if you went and got a human from 50, 000 years ago and kidnapped him and brought him in and Ray and took them in a time machine and raised them. Today he'd be able to like, fly an airplane and walk around on the streets and wouldn't look weird.

[Kevin Murphy]

Do you think. Do I think that just saying that is that.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, it's, there's like A debate was it like. But it usually centers around 50, 000 years ago. 70, 000 years ago, people were like behaviorally and anatomically modern. Humans at that time looked. Would have been dead ringers. Right. For people alive could be like lawyers, pilots, cat trappers, the complicated stuff at that time. You're looking scapular. This isn't my number. I'm just saying.

[Kevin Murphy]

This is. Thank. I'm just thinking. Yeah, I'm not saying right or wrong.

[Steven Rinella]

So these guys found toxins derived from a plant whose common name is the poison bulb plant. And it's still used by traditional hunters today. When Seth and I were in Africa, some of the trackers. The trackers were poachers that they caught. They catch poachers and some of them, they turn them into trackers. Some of them, you turn them into the police. These guys were telling us when they were kids, 13, 14 years old, they were hunting with plant poisons for Cape buffalo. With poisons. So these are poisons still used today. And they're finding traces of them on projectile points from 60,000 years ago. And it's a complex cooking process to. To isolate and activate the poison. Slowly weaken spray. It's just interesting.

[Kevin Murphy]

Oh, very interesting.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, Very interesting that these. That dudes might have been that long ago cooking up in South Africa 60,000 years ago, which is getting to the point where you can't even comprehend, like humans. Like, you can throw the number around, but you can't really picture what that means. 60,000 years ago, three times longer ago than there were humans at all in the New World. Yes, three times. So you imagine how long ago that was. There's some dude in America trying to bring, you know, kill a mastodon three times longer ago than that. Dudes in Africa mixing up plant toxins.

[Kevin Murphy]

I was at the Galt site. It's four hours from here. And that's probably the oldest documented inhabited site in the US 7,000 years before Clovis, 20,000. And then I'm digging at a current site in Kentucky, and our artifacts are dating around 14, 5, 15,000 years ago.

[Steven Rinella]

In association with mastodon mastodons and mammoths.

[Kevin Murphy]

One of the few sites in the world where you have both species occurring. And this year, under the zones of concentrated water, we also found a piece of. Of what is it? The moose elk antler. The moose elk.

[Steven Rinella]

Yep.

[Kevin Murphy]

We found a section about that in situ in the ground planted at that site.

[Seth Morris]

So is it fossil? Is it.

[Kevin Murphy]

No, it's still bone. It was under 2 meters, you know, 6 foot of overfill laying right on the bedrock.

[Seth Morris]

Gotcha.

[Kevin Murphy]

Little section that while it looked like it had been worked by humans, you know, just this kind of piece that looked like, you know, there's no artwork on it, no defined structure. You could, you know, it's like 5050. Did a human use this for some kind of tool? Maybe, maybe not in there, but we have found ivory spear points.

[Steven Rinella]

We found that pecker too.

[Kevin Murphy]

That we found the pecker of the lore. I didn't not. I didn't even know that a mastodon had a lore tusk. And they're usually 8 to 12 inches long. The lorepecker set in my hand in there and it was, is the shape of it and it was polished.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh yeah. You look a lot of times you hear like someone's like, oh, it's like a, you know, it's like carved into whatever. And you look and you're like, yeah, maybe. Maybe it's just luck.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

You know that term a geo fact. Like it's like a phony. Like, you know, it's like you find a rock and you think it's something.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

And then a guy will be like, that's a geophat. Like it was just the earth made it and it resembles a thing. That packer is a packer.

[Kevin Murphy]

It's. It is. And here's a unique opportunity for people. We're going to have a major dig there starting in September through October. We need earth movers. You can come out and do some real archeology with Dr. Grambling. He's a trained anthropologist, 79 years old. We've been working that site for four years now. As a lot of history there. It was the last battle of the Revolutionary War.

[Steven Rinella]

Battle of blue licks.

[Kevin Murphy]

10 months.

[Steven Rinella]

Daniel Boone's kid was killed there.

[Kevin Murphy]

10 months after the Revolutionary War was over. The British were still trying to control the Northwest Territory and they ambushed Daniel Boone and his party and like you.

[Steven Rinella]

Said, shot his boy through the throat.

[Kevin Murphy]

Not mistake his. His son died in his arm. You can walk down to the river and actually see the ford. I've been aiming like the weight across it because it gets pretty low. You could ride a horse across it. No, no problem at all. But it's just mesmerizing to be at that site. All that history that Daniel Boone and the salt works, they were come there to do the salt. The, the megafauna came in there and they habitated that, that area. You know, we've got Big Bone Lick in Kentucky that's been. Been robbed and traumatized from the original settlers that came in, sent the bones back to England and stuff. They didn't know what a mastodon was at that time. But just to go down there and dig on something and find that, you know, everything we get, we have to. To kill. But you see fractured pieces of. Of mastodon ivory, which is totally different than a mammoth ivory. The teeth are different. Were mastodon. Its main diet is woody shrub bushes and stuff. And a mammoth is a hay eater. So they have flat. Flat molars. So it's just really unique to be able to do that. So like I said, we need volunteers. Just kind of. Kind of watch my Instagram, Facebook, whatever. I'll probably put up some kind of notice.

[Steven Rinella]

So what I want you to do is plug. I don't want you to plug that because I want you to plug your other volunteer problem. Okay. So everybody ignore what he just said because I think the other one's more important.

[Kevin Murphy]

It is to me.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah. So yeah.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Let me do one last thing.

[Kevin Murphy]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

One last news item.

[Kevin Murphy]

But we still need help. It's gonna be fine.

[Max Barda]

I'll come.

[Steven Rinella]

Kevin, this Texas. Because we're in Texas. I want to do one last Texas two Texas news bits. Okay. And then you're going to do your deal and then we got to wrap it up. Okay.

[Kevin Murphy]

All right.

[Seth Morris]

Yeah. Make it quick because we got 10 minutes.

[Steven Rinella]

Okay. Check this one out. We reported on this before trying to decide the guys surf casters using drones to drop bait. Like some surf casting. You paddle way out and drop your bait when you're trying to get it out past like the second sandbar or whatever. So guys started using drones. Texas that doesn't like to run around banning stuff, just generally speaking. They're. They're like a. Banning things averse state.

[Max Barda]

Anti banning.

[Steven Rinella]

They're anti banning state. They clarified that the use of unmanned aircraft systems for fishing will fall under the federal airborne. Fall under prohibition under the federal Airborne Hunting Act. They're saying this is not a new ban, but that's how they're going to interpret it going forward. It's a statute that's been around since 1956. They're saying you are not allowed in Texas the way they're this. They're not making a new law. They're clarifying how they interpret it. It's all to you. If you're fishing with drones, it's all the same thing. They're saying Texas Parks and Wildlife department is saying you can't use a drone for fishing.

[Max Barda]

Yeah. It's now become a thing to do. And they're just re clarifying that they.

[Steven Rinella]

Didn'T need to go past legislation specifically because they're saying it was already illegal. It was already illegal. We weren't interpreting it that we're interpreting it now. Just to clarify to everybody, you cannot take a drone and drop your bait out for sharks past the second sandbar, whatever the hell you're up to. The last thing, we're not gonna spend any time on it. But it is Texas. I want to hit it real quick. It's a real obvious one. So much suburban sprawl in areas of Texas and urban areas that is creating a hog explosion around urban areas. It's the same thing you see with deer where it's like you make areas where you make more and more and more and more areas close to hunting. And you get more and more landowners like well, I don't want anybody to hunt, but I sure don't want all these pigs running around.

[Max Barda]

Yeah.

[Steven Rinella]

Or I should. The last thing I want is some redneck hunting deer in my yard. But I also want fish and game agency to come get all their damn deer out of here.

[Seth Morris]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

Just. It's a story that just never stops repeating itself.

[Kevin Murphy]

Oh, we have it rampant with deer right now. Get these deer out of here.

[Steven Rinella]

Why don't you let a hunter on there? I'm not letting those rednecks on here. Get them out of my landscaping. We're out of time.

[Kevin Murphy]

Okay.

[Steven Rinella]

You're doing. You're involved in a habitat restoration project.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yes.

[Steven Rinella]

Hit it clean. Hit it clean. Hit it quick. You need Kevin Murphy needs you.

[Kevin Murphy]

I need tree huggers, tree planters, wake borders, people that like to fish. We're going to plant 2, 000 cypress trees.

[Steven Rinella]

Oh yeah. Guilt ridden wake borders.

[Kevin Murphy]

I'll take anybody. I want to bring people together.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah.

[Kevin Murphy]

Guilt ridden wake borders.

[Steven Rinella]

You have a pissed off fisherman and guilt ridden wakeboarders down there fighting.

[Kevin Murphy]

So we got 2,000 five foot cypress trees that we're going to try to get get planted on the shore of lake Barkley. I've been doing this project for six years and in during that six year time period, I've only been able to plant 2,000. I've got my technique down good. Now we got fish and game department, Kentucky fish Game park is going to come and help us. U. S Corps of engineers going to donate some money to help us out and it's going to be a great time.

[Steven Rinella]

And what's your lifetime goal? You want to do how many miles of shoreline?

[Kevin Murphy]

I want to do 22 miles. The north shore of Lake Barkley, the shoreline of the Cumberland River. It takes a beating from the north wind in the wintertime when the lake pool comes down. Summer pool is 360, winter pool is 354. So we have this long mud flat in there that we used to be covered with button bush. But due to the corps of engineers changing the plan of the draw ground it it has flooded all the button bush back. So cypress trees, they can tolerate water.

[Steven Rinella]

They do not like all your crop.

[Kevin Murphy]

They tolerate. Yes, all the COVID The crappie habitat is gone. So I am my. My goal in life is to get this started, which I already have.

[Steven Rinella]

How many miles have you done so far?

[Kevin Murphy]

Probably about two miles. I got another 20 to go but I've upped it. I've learned how to do it. In the beginning we use some larger trees and took bigger hoes. They didn't stand up very well. Now we use a slender. Like I said, it's a. I think a three year old tree. It'll be about as big around as your thumb like a wisp. And we want them high enough that, that they can take that take water, water elevation there he's got to get.

[Steven Rinella]

Old enough to have his nose out of the water when it comes up.

[Kevin Murphy]

We have learned to stake them. We drive a wooden stake in the ground. We give them a fertilizer pellet time to the stake and we flag them with flagging tape. Do a real dense planning. There may be from. From this wall to this wall along the shoreline. So we have instant infrastructure for crappie fishing in the springtime.

[Steven Rinella]

Just every couple.

[Kevin Murphy]

It's just immediately there with the wooden. The hardwood stakes they last. And we did it for the first time that way last year. I was able to put in a huge amount of trees in a. In a short one side of Devonport Bay is where we're going to be. We were on the east side last year. We're going to be on the west side this year. And then in those rocky areas we only plant trees about every 10 steps or so because it's just too hard to do it. But we're going to have a continuous from Edible Ferry down to Nickel Branch.

[Steven Rinella]

So how did volunteers find you?

[Kevin Murphy]

Just watch my Instagram tell everybody what it is. Kevin Murphy at Small Game Nation.

[Steven Rinella]

Kevin Murphy at Small Game Nation Y if you want to help Kevin start planting cypress trees to do habitat restoration, get a hold of him and help him out. And here's a trivia one for you. What is the number one problem? Number one Killer of Kevin's cypress trees.

[Max Barda]

Wake borders.

[Seth Morris]

Wakeboarder.

[Steven Rinella]

Recreationalist. No. Something we all love. Number one, killer turkeys. No.

[Seth Morris]

Deer.

[Max Barda]

Whitetail deer.

[Steven Rinella]

He says they want to rub their antlers on them. They kill them all.

[Kevin Murphy]

Yep.

[Steven Rinella]

He's got a 40 survival from bucks coming out there and rubbing on him.

[Kevin Murphy]

That you would maybe think beaver or something, but. But the most detrimental thing is a little scrawny ass whitetail buck wants to come in there and beat up on my cypress.

[Steven Rinella]

He says they're real limber, so they kind of like. Because the trees thrash a little bit, they look like a tough guy.

[Max Barda]

Kevin, you're a squirrel man, Dogman. And now you're a tree man.

[Steven Rinella]

Tree man, cypress man.

[Seth Morris]

Can you put tubes on them?

[Kevin Murphy]

I think that it wouldn't help. I don't know. We might try that. This year we went to a smaller tree that was the larger trees that we had, like almost, you know, inch and a half, two inch. So we've using the whip trees now with the steak, so hopefully they're dense enough that they'll stay out of that.

[Steven Rinella]

Maybe like little landmines and poison pellets.

[Kevin Murphy]

But there again, you know, we don't have the browse in lbl. Like we had it spitballing.

[Seth Morris]

Just throw that out there.

[Kevin Murphy]

Gonna get your piece of fruitcake here. I've got it all sliced.

[Steven Rinella]

I haven't eaten anything yet today. We've been running hard, so.

[Kevin Murphy]

Had a great time with you guys, as always. Dude.

[Steven Rinella]

Kevin, give me a. Give me a handshake, man. Every time. I learn a lot. I love you.

[Seth Morris]

Thanks, Kevin.

[Kevin Murphy]

I can't wait to be able to take two decades under my age bracket, so I appreciate that.

[Max Barda]

I can't wait to see what you do with that hog.

[Kevin Murphy]

Well, we're gonna make sausage. This is my team. I'm gonna take a small portion of it, grind it up, test it and see if it's going to turn out well.

[Steven Rinella]

Yeah, I. I wish you good luck cooking your hog. I mainly wish you good luck getting your trees in, man. Love to see you get that 22 miles done. That'd be cool before you die. Oh, when he dies, I get his hat.

[Max Barda]

Yeah, that is true.

[Steven Rinella]

That's cool.

[Max Barda]

Where's that hat?

[Steven Rinella]

All right, everybody. Thanks a lot. All right, thank you.

[Max Barda]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Steven Rinella]

Guaranteed human.