The MeatEater Podcast — Ep. 866: The Boundary Waters Tragedy, Oklahoma CWD, and Mutilated Paddlefish
Date: April 23, 2026
Host: Steven Rinella
Guests: Dr. Randall Williams, Dr. Jordan Sillers, Spencer Newhart, Brody Henderson, others
Episode Overview
This news-packed episode explores crucial topics facing hunters, anglers, and conservationists across the U.S., delivering equal parts hard-hitting discussion, irreverent humor, and in-depth perspective. Central themes include the political and ecological fallout over a proposed copper mine near the Boundary Waters, controversial deer release programs in Oklahoma, troubling mutilations of paddlefish in Missouri, and a range of listener questions and wildlife debates. The crew also digresses into their own recent turkey hunting misadventures, the ethics of hunting tactics, and the beauty of meteor showers.
Tone: Conversational, opinionated, irreverent — with regular injections of expert insight and humor.
Table of Contents
Recent Hunts and Turkey Hunting Stories (01:17–12:29)
- Steven and Yanni share tales from a phenomenal turkey hunt in Illinois, involving raffle winners and a feast of wild foods.
- Notable food highlights: smoked king salmon, spot prawns, razor clams, and velveted mule deer.
- The story of Andy’s turkey misses leads to a teaching moment about diagnosing shooting errors.
- Notable Quote (09:50, Brody Henderson):
"Usually, if someone has a real bad flinch…they're pushing the barrel down, and that's why you miss low…he was sort of preloading, countering the recoil, and before he got the trigger to break, his gun was…two feet low."
- Reflects on the humane aspects of turkey hunting regulations, such as 1 p.m. cut-offs.
- Light-hearted commentary on hunt etiquette and hunter self-doubt.
Corrections of the Week (17:03–29:00)
- Listeners write in with factual corrections or further detail concerning previous show topics.
- Tsavo Man-Eaters: Actual number of humans eaten by the infamous lions closer to 40, not 140.
- Randall Williams (21:45):
"You could see, like, month by month, how much more…of their diet was humans…one of the lions peaked at…30%."
- Suppressors & Hearing Loss Lawsuit: Legal expert explains why you can't sue the government for hearing loss.
- Notable Quote (24:02, Reading listener email):
"I’m writing this with institutional knowledge of the legal world and would hate to see someone waste their money or time exploring such a farce."
- Ballistician writes in: debunks the possibility of "quiet gunpowder" and explains firearms noise physics.
- Highlight:
Gunshot noise comes from gas expansion and projectile sonic cracks; only a suppressor can meaningfully reduce loudness.
- Panel votes on the best correction, awarding a trail camera as a prize.
Listener Emails: Unusual Burial Wishes & Hunter Etiquette Dilemmas (32:14–46:28)
- Burial Ideas:
- A listener wants their cremated remains mixed into bear bait so their body is eaten by a bear.
- Panel debates the logistics and ethics; raccoons and other scavengers get an honorable mention.
- Jordan Sillers (34:31):
"I talked to a guy... their dogs... smelled bear and coyote scat and signaled because they could smell human inside... it had gone through the digestive tract."
- Hunter Etiquette Controversy:
- A listener describes a neighbor parking a truck in public land access to create the illusion of hunting pressure and keep others out.
- The panel debates whether this is immoral, clever, or just “a move.”
- Randall Williams (43:28):
"I do think it’s immoral…I don’t like messing with other people’s hunts. I do my business; you do yours."
KEY TOPIC: Boundary Waters Mining Controversy (46:28–62:04)
Background:
- Senate Republicans voted to repeal a 20-year moratorium on a copper sulfide mine upstream of the Boundary Waters (Superior National Forest, MN).
- Overwhelming public opposition:
- 70% of Minnesotans oppose the mine
- Dozens of conservation groups voiced opposition.
Main Points:
- Political maneuvering:
- Congressional Review Act used to block the moratorium; it can't be easily reinstated.
- Deep connections between the mining company (Antofagasta, Chile), Trump administration officials, and high-level lobbying.
- Lobbyists and politicians receiving significant compensation.
- Environmental Consequences:
- Acid-producing rock could irreparably harm Boundary Waters; no similar mine in the U.S. has avoided pollution.
- Chilean company involved recently cited for water violations at home.
- Conservation Frustrations:
- Despite bipartisan conservation ideals, the vote was split on party lines, with Republicans siding against conservation.
- The show laments politicians' lack of integrity on public lands.
- Steven Rinella (60:35):
"So many representatives on the Republican side…signaled that they wanted to do the right thing and then ultimately admitted that they couldn’t, which is like, you know…chicken shits."
- Panel encourages continued public advocacy and holding politicians accountable.
- Spencer Newman (61:44):
"This was an open book test…the answer was so obvious…you failed spectacularly."
KEY TOPIC: Oklahoma CWD and the Release of Captive Deer (63:57–80:05)
Background:
- Oklahoma passes (2024) and implements the "Chronic Wasting Disease Genetic Improvement Act."
- Aimed at releasing domestically bred, "CWD-durable" deer into the wild to improve herd genetics.
- No pre-release CWD testing of these deer.
Main Points:
- Science & Ethics:
- The “durable” gene doesn’t confer immunity, only some resistance.
- Leading biologists and all major wildlife organizations (except deer breeders) oppose the plan.
- Modeling shows you’d need to release 75,000 deer per year to make a genetic impact.
- Industry Interests:
- Law enables breeders to sell captive-bred deer to any landowner, opening a lucrative new market.
- Skepticism & Critique:
- Many proponents used to claim "CWD is a hoax"—now they are selling the supposed fix.
- Rinella (73:47):
"It’s a hoax, but here’s the solution…it’s like, is it a hoax or does this fix this, or is this self-serving?"
- Compares to the romantic symbolism of wild deer—bred deer miss the point.
- Potential for Rollback:
- Recent legislative developments indicate decreasing support; repeal is possible.
Wisconsin Youth Turkey Accident & Age for Introduction (80:11–92:47)
- Detailed discussion of a hunting accident involving a 3-year-old and a 12-gauge shotgun in Wisconsin.
- General consensus: a 3-year-old could not responsibly handle or fire such a gun; more likely the mentor was responsible.
- Rinella (88:21):
"They will have no recollection…I think after this incident, you’d have to just say for the record here, I was in charge. I was wielding that shotgun."
- Broader talk: proper age for introducing children to hunting (hosts’ guideline is 8 for turkeys, 10 for deer in Montana), and wariness about pushing too soon.
KEY TOPIC: Mutilated Paddlefish in Missouri (92:49–97:01)
- Multiple paddlefish in Lake of the Ozarks discovered alive with profane messages, wounds, and mutilated snouts—apparent retaliation against fisheries regulations.
- Community and law enforcement outcry; reward exceeds $15,000 for conviction.
- Rinella (94:58):
"If you’re writing ‘F U MDC’…that’s not possibly motivated by animosity. They’re mad about the regulatory structure."
- Panel expresses disgust and concern about the negative public perception toward hunters/anglers.
SEGUE: Meteor Showers and Citizen Science (97:01–104:22)
- Spencer gives a lively, educational report on the Lyrids meteor shower and how listeners can participate in citizen science by reporting sightings to the American Meteor Society.
- Historical accounts and how-to tips for watching and reporting shooting stars.
- Memorable Moment:
Spencer himself submitted a fireball report after seeing a spectacular meteor while in his hot tub at 4:30am.
- Spencer (103:00):
"I spend a lot of time outside at night. This was the brightest meteor I’ve ever seen."
- The hosts encourage getting kids out to watch, but balance it with the reality of tired, cranky mornings.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On the boundary waters mining vote:
- "So many representatives...signaled they wanted to do the right thing and then ultimately admitted they couldn’t…chicken shits." (Rinella, 60:35)
- "This was an open book test…you failed spectacularly." (Spencer, 61:44)
- On the Oklahoma deer breeders’ program:
- "It's so funny…one minute, it's a hoax, and the next minute…‘but wait a minute, it is a problem, and guess who's the solution—it's me’." (Rinella, 73:47)
- On hunter etiquette:
- "I do think it’s immoral… I don’t like messing with other people’s hunts." (Randall Williams, 43:28)
- On introducing children to hunting:
- "They will have no recollection… I was wielding that shotgun. This should not, this is not a conversation about mentored hunting." (Rinella, 88:21)
- On paddlefish mutilations:
- "It’s gross…and whenever something like this…happens, I worry about the perception of hunters." (Phil, 95:41)
Conclusion
This episode encapsulates what makes the MeatEater news show a compelling listen: a fusion of straight-shooting conservation journalism, lived experience, and critical debate—always served with wit and a human touch. The boundary waters mining debacle and Oklahoma’s deer release program anchor the show in current, deeply divisive issues, while side-stories (from turkey mishaps to meteor showers) showcase the richness, humor, and occasional absurdity of life outdoors.
For more resources and links mentioned in the show (raffle tickets, new seasons of "Blood Trail," or tools for citizen science), visit MeatEater's website or podcast description.
