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The Megyn Kelly Show
Biden's Doc Refuses to Talk, Epstein is Dividing MAGA, and David Muir's Wardrobe, with Mark Halperin | Ep. 1104
01:41:58
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- [00:00]
Megyn Kelly
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- [00:31]
Mark Halperin
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- [04:36]
Megyn Kelly
Well, not adequately explained by his counsel. I would put this in the shocking but not surprising category. They were able to get through the presidency without this guy ever being held accountable. He's not a normal doctor for a normal patient. He's the president's doctor and he's the president. He's a doctor to a president who, along with his family and close aides, endangered America by having someone serve who had many moments, we don't know exactly how many, where he wasn't up to doing the job. So Comer has done a much better job than framing this the correct way. Not as politics, although obviously there are politics here. But we have to get to the bottom of this. This isn't a matter of embarrassing the Bidens. It isn't a matter of violating the President's right to Privacy. It's a matter of how can we make sure that this doesn't happen again. And I'll say he is not a normal doctor with a normal patient. So I think in the end the Republicans are going to win this fight. But his invocation of the Fifth Amendment, his hiding behind doctor patient confidentiality, goes to prove what we all suspected, which is they don't want whatever is left of the COVID up to fall apart. They're going to try to keep America from learning the truth. I don't think it'll work. And I'd urge Democrats to join in getting to the bottom of it rather than being on the wrong side of history.
- [05:52]
Mark Halperin
This is unbelievable. Now. Now, as a result of him doing this and comers jumping up and down about it, we just get this in from Dr. O' Connor's lawyers. They cite the pending DOJ criminal investigation, which they say leaves Dr. O' Connor no choice but to invoke his constitutional rights under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution. 20 questions posted by the committee. We want to emphasize that asserting the Fifth Amendment privilege does not imply that Dr. O' Connor has committed any crime. The pending DOJ investigation took me by surprise. Last I heard, Trump said the DOJ should investigate this. And I don't know that there is a DOJ investigation and that could matter. But I will say this. Either way, if he did nothing wrong, what's the problem? Why is Dr. O' Connor genuinely worried about going to prison if he was just providing medical advice and not actually participating in a cover up?
- [06:52]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, well, in America we should not challenge people's right to invoke the Fifth Amendment as a matter of law and individual liberty. But this is about political and public accountability. I don't know what crime he might have committed, but I do know that everything we know suggests that he was a central figure in attempting to keep the President's actual condition from the American people. You know, you can take a lot of examples. Either he tested him for cancer and covered up the results. A big problem, or he didn't test him, which doctors will tell you. Also a big problem. Either he got him some scans to see what was going on in his brain and didn't release the results or say that they occurred, or he didn't do it. Either way, a big problem. And this is not a normal patient. So I don't know if he, if he's truly afraid of legal liability. What he's clearly counting on, what the whole Biden operation is counting on, is what they counted on for four years. Which is that the press won't cover it. And I'll say I don't always go reflexively to imagine if the shoe were on the other foot, but imagine if a Republican president was facing these accusations and a doctor took the fifth and cited patient doctor confidentiality. Will this story lead the news tonight on the broadcast networks? Would be on the front page of the New York Times, the Washington Post. It should, but I doubt that it will. This guy is a doctor, but he's also an American citizen. And he played a massive role in what was a cover up.
- [08:27]
Mark Halperin
I mean, we know for sure that his haircut is a crime for which.
- [08:30]
Megyn Kelly
He should be against, against all humanity, not just those living now, Megan, but our ancestors. Our ancestors, wherever they are, are feeling the pain every time he appears on camera. And so he needs, he needs to be held accountable for that. And the barber too. I don't think you can let whoever cut the hair off the hook, that person as well has some splaining.
- [08:53]
Mark Halperin
It's a conspiracy. Many were involved and there are many predicate acts there. But.
- [08:58]
Megyn Kelly
And again. And the guy in the next barber chair also some culpability, some responsibility to turn and say, no, don't leave the chair. The guy's obviously not done.
- [09:10]
Mark Halperin
All right, we will drop in a close up picture of Kevin O' Connor's hair for the viewing audience on YouTube at this point. There's only video of him leaving Comer's office today because the behind closed doors thing was not. Here he comes. Standby. There he is. There he is with the glasses. It's a problem. So Comer also put out his own statement after this. And this is what he says. Number one, he says you can't assert the patient, the doctor patient privilege, he says, because the D.C. court of Appeals has made clear that that privilege only limits a physician's ability to disclose confidential patient information in federal courts in D.C. and in the District of Columbia courts, meaning like the state courts in D.C. and Congress is not a court, therefore you may not assert that privilege. That's compelling. Then he says, second, according to the ama, the American Medical Association's code of medical ethics, he says it's inapplicable because it's overridden by our subpoena. And he cites Medical Ethics Opinion 9.7.1, Physicians who Testify as fact witnesses in legal claims involving a patient they have treated must hold the patient's medical interests paramount by protecting the confidentiality of the patient's health information unless the physician is legally compelled to disclose the information. And so That's Comer's point, is that you are now legally compelled to disclose the information. And that's why now they're. And I think they know they're gonna lose on that mark, which is why they've added Fifth and citing what I think is a made up DOJ investigation. We're looking into this right now. We'll know soon. But I think it was just a Trump threat. As far as I know, the DOJ is not actively investigating Kevin o'. Connor.
- [11:03]
Megyn Kelly
It's possible that they got some inquiry from the FBI. I don't know. Factually, you're right. We should know that they also, in their statement, hid behind President Trump's invocation of the Fifth in the case in New York with Letitia James. I'll say again, this was a four year cover up. It was not about a small matter. It was about the ability of the United States to function properly. And. And I think they can continue to try to use every legal and political and media trick possible to keep from explaining what happened, or they can get on the right side of history and explain it. But we've got more people coming in. A lot of the political aides are scheduled as well. They obviously don't have doctor, patient. Maybe they'll invoke the Fifth as well. Maybe they'll try to give clever or cute answers. But this doctor is essential to the thing. And I think that he can't be stopped from invoking the Fifth, obviously, but he can be put in sharp relief in a public hearing and ask questions that I think the American people would find reasonable, which is how did he care for not just his patient, but for the public interest as the person who basically, by putting out an annual statement, certified that Joe Biden had no cognitive decline. And we know that's not true.
- [12:20]
Mark Halperin
So now Comer gets him behind closed doors. Again, the haircut, it's the short for the listening audience. It's the short bangs, like the serial killer bangs that come just mid forehead. They're not even totally even, but they're disturbingly short with like a bowl cut after that. I don't know what's going on there, but it does speak to the man's terrible judgment.
- [12:43]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Do you know those restaurants where you eat in the dark where you're supposed to, like, have the sense of the food without seeing it? I feel like maybe he goes to one of those barbers where the lights are all off and so the barbers just got to feel their way through how to cut the hair.
- [12:56]
Mark Halperin
It's Also one of those situations, like where you go to one of those restaurants and you go to the bathroom and it's absolutely disgusting and not clean at all. Then you're like, I got to get out of here. When you walk in, you see your physician with that hair. You got to turn around. You got to walk out. There's. There's a level of care that's not present in his own daily routine. And you shouldn't subject yourself to this man.
- [13:15]
Megyn Kelly
Amen.
- [13:15]
Mark Halperin
Here's what Comer asked him. These are the two questions he asked. He said, I'm going to read the first two questions that were asked. This is Comer speaking to the press right after, quote, were you ever told to lie about the president's health? He pleaded the Fifth Amendment. He would not answer that question. The second question, did you ever believe President Biden was unfit to execute his duty? And he again pleaded the Fifth. Comer says, this is unprecedented, and I think this adds more fuel to the fire that there was a cover up here. This was. We learned from. From the Tapper Thompson book that Dr. O' Connor was allegedly behind the scenes trying to get Joe Biden more rest. He quipped that Biden's staff were trying to kill him while Dr. O' Connor was trying to keep him alive. Given Biden's age, Dr. O' Connor also privately said that if he had another bad fall, a wheelchair might be necessary for what could be a difficult recovery. But the aides didn't want that while he was running. And he told others that he did not believe the science required him to do a cognitive test on Biden in connection with his annual physical. He saw the president frequently, and if he had reason for concern, he would have performed one. Ultimately, Joe Biden's political advisors agreed. Oh, I'm sure it was a real arm twist, but this is Jill Biden's guy. Remember, he. Isn't he super like Jill picked him? There was the Secret Service agent, but this guy, too, I think, is close with Jill Biden and has a loyalty to the Bidens as opposed to. To the country, from the sound of it.
- [14:56]
Megyn Kelly
Well, all presidents choose as their White House position someone they're comfortable with. But, you know, I know, I know you're not guilty of this, but I think too much of the press is acting as if there's some mystery here about what the guy did. Now, some of the details are mystery, and who exactly was in charge is a mystery, but there's no mystery here. He didn't ever answer questions from the press. And he either, as I said before, he either performed tests and lied about whether they were performed and didn't disclose the results or he didn't perform them. Whereas it doesn't make any sense not to have had brain scans. It doesn't make any sense not to have had cancer test. So I don't, I don't know, as I said before, I don't know what crime he might be guilty of, but I do know that he's abusing the public trust. And after four years of participating in the COVID up and arguably the central figure, because he is a doctor and he does have a responsibility both to his patient and the public interest, I just think it's, it's, it's, it's hard to me to see how he's going to sustain this unless the COVID up was even more insidious than we knew it to be. In other words, one thing that hasn't been acknowledged by anybody on the inside and he'd be considered on the inside, is that they knew how bad it was and they covered it up. Their premise is we didn't really know if it went that far. Again, I don't know that that's a crime, but it's a political crime and it's a policy crime and it's an irresponsible action for a doctor who's supposed to have an obligation to the American people to have done well.
- [16:28]
Mark Halperin
But here's the, here's the truth. No one's looking to put Dr. O' Connor in jail. Not comer, not the DOJ. By the way, we did find out on June 4th, the White House released a memo directing the counsel to the President and the Attorney General to conduct an investigation to determine whether certain individuals conspired to deceive the public about Biden's mental state and unconstitutionally exercise the authorities and responsibilities of the President. And a subpoena was issued in June, possibly. I, I don't know if that means, to Dr. O'. Connor. So the President did direct DOJ and counsel to the president to conduct an investigation. But my point is simply the odds of the DOJ and certainly Comer and the US Congress giving Dr. O' Connor immunity to remove his ability to raise the Fifth Amendment are very high. That's probably, yeah, that's almost certainly what they're going to do. Trump doesn't want to put Dr. O' Connor behind bars. He wants answers. And once you remove the Fifth Amendment privilege and it looks like he's going to lose the doctor patient privilege because it has an exception to it, meaning if you've gotten a lawful subpoena to testify. And of course, we've seen that in medical malpractice cases you cannot just maintain doctor patient confidentiality to the death. You get a lawful subpoena to appear in a courtroom about what you did or said, you're going to have to breach it. This guy's going to be forced to talk at some point, Mark, and then we're going to learn what he's so concerned about.
- [17:54]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I mean, it's important that the committee, and again, I'd urge the Democrats in the committee to join in, keep focused on the public policy question, which is vital for the country. We can't have another situation where a president suffers cognitive decline right before our eyes. And the media and the Democrats pretend it's not happening. We just can't let that happen again. So I agree that he's not going to go to prison, but look at what they're doing. They're playing the normal card. They Trump did it too. Trump is trying to improperly investigate us. They're trying to get the Democrat or the media rather to go back to their reflexive defense of the COVID up. And it's going to be interesting to see, as I said, how this is covered because the press has kind of acknowledged the COVID up, kind of not fully. So if you acknowledge the COVID up and then the COVID ups being sustained under a lawful subpoena by the majority in the House, I don't know how the press can treat that like a small story or an insignificant step. But I'm skeptical we'll see in the coming hours how it gets treated.
- [18:55]
Mark Halperin
I asked my team to pull this. I believe it was the New York Post that broke the story of the neurologist visiting the White House almost double digits leading into the summer. This came out the summer, this time last year, just a little bit more than 12 months ago when Biden was hanging by a thread after that debate and all the press corps suddenly got really interested in his mental well being. The Post had been interested prior to. But they reported they broke the story on July 6th. Yeah, so almost exactly a year, about the fact that Biden's physician, Kevin o' Connor, met with a Parkinson's disease specialist in the White House. And then the New York Times followed thereafter. And the report was that an expert on Parkinson's disease from Walter Reed National Military Medical center visited the White House eight times in eight months from the summer of 23 through spring of 24, including at least once for A meeting with President Biden's physician, Dr. Kevin O'. Connor. The expert who came, Dr. Kevin Kennard, is a neurologist who specializes in movement disorders and. And recently published a paper on Parkinson's, by the way, not for nothing, but this. This came up when I sat with the New York Times, and Lulu Garcia Navarro and I were having our tete a tete about, you know, how you can't trust these podcasters to tell you the truth and there's no system. And I was like, oh, but we can trust the New York Times. And I said, they cut this out. But I said, where was Peter Baker? And the report that a neurologist had had visited the White House eight times or ten times over the course of the prior year, that finally he got his name on it after the New York Post broke it one year ago today. But nowhere. He had no interest. He wasn't checking the logs. He didn't care about Biden's mental acuity. Yet another press failure. Your thoughts?
- [20:46]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. So I say again, if the President was not being seen by a Parkinson's expert, o' Connor should be stripped of his medical license. Of course he should have been seen by a Parkinson's expert. And of course he should have been having regular brain scans to see what was going on. So this is where they're kind of checkmated, because they either didn't do these things and it's malpractice, because the president clearly needed, as a father and as a grandfather and as a husband, as a human being, he needed the treatment that you or I would get for our dad. If they had those symptoms and behavior, and if they did do them, which according to this reporting they did, what were the results? Why was he there? They act as if this is some private citizen Biden who's entitled to his medical privacy the way private citizens are. If the President of the United States is being seen by a Parkinson's expert, which it appears happened, maybe not, but it appears it did, and it should have. That should be disclosed, and the results should be disclosed. If the President is exhibiting the symptoms that this president did, Nearly every Parkinson's doctor you've talked to and I've talked to has said, not my patient, but I have a C SPAN subscription. I've seen how he's behaving. He needed a full battery of tests, and that should be disclosed. Fundamentally, it makes a mockery of the annual release of the note from the President's doctor. If the thing is filled with lies and incomplete descriptions about how he was being treated and. And what conditions he has.
- [22:22]
Mark Halperin
Mm. It's. By the way, let's slap a subpoena on this Dr. Kevin Kennard. He's up next. Interesting last name. Yeah, we'll slap a subpoena on him, and let's see if he's as loyal to the president or, you know, whether he's willing to come forward and give testimony to James Comer, understanding. Maybe he'll say, I did nothing wrong. I don't have to assert any privilege whatsoever. Let me tell you everything that happened. I've been waiting for you to call, but I'm sure Comer's in the process of doing that. You're absolutely right. It's. Look, it's not like they're randomly choosing Megyn Kelly and saying, I want all the results from your latest GYN exam. Right. Like that's what. Okay. If you're a president and then you show obvious cognitive decline that it was on a presidential debate stage, forget all the evidence we had leading into that moment for all the world to see, we are entitled to go back and ask whether you were. Okay, what decisions you made and what your mental capacity was at the time that you were making them. We're still living with the consequences, a lot of. A lot of those decisions. So this is a game. You're right. They're not going to win. Comer's going to play the long game. I'm sure he's going to get these objections overruled bit by bit. And we will know. We will know what happened to Joe Biden. And it's not even. You know, we're focusing on the mental acuity, but, you know, there's the matter of prostate cancer. It appears that the sitting President of the United States had advanced cancer while he was running for reelection, trying to say he. He'd have another four years. And for all we know, at that point, maybe it had already metastasized to his bones. Who knows what the prognosis was? Somebody does know. Just you and I aren't among them.
- [23:54]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And. And the excuse that that was made when this became an issue a few weeks ago was men his age typically don't get the tests because sometimes they're false positives and it brings up questions of treatment and anxiety. He's not a normal pres. Not a normal person. He's a president, and as you said, running for election. So if they really didn't test him, I would say that's malpractice, Truly. And if they did test him and they're lying about the results. Also a problem. And it doesn't really matter which it is. The reality is experts will tell you he has an advanced stage. It should have been detected earlier. And if it wasn't, again, shame on the doctor for saying, well, we're not going to do the test because it's normal not to at someone his age. He's the president. He's running for reelection. The president. United States has advanced cancer. That's a national crisis. It's not. It's not some private personal matter.
- [24:51]
Mark Halperin
And it's not the same as Trump with his flippant. You know, he's the greatest, most in shape president of all time. Doctor memos, which are kind of a laugh. But he does take a cognitive test. And if Trump show showed signs, repeated, obvious signs of cognitive decline, or it came out that he had advanced cancer, there would be an inquiry by Democrats too, on what actually went on in those meetings, what tests were conducted. Now we want actual results. And you can bet his lawyer, his doctor, too, would get a subpoena that they'd have to respond to.
- [25:26]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I don't love Donald Trump's history of medical disclosure, including those same buffoonish over the top letters. Although I will say the last disclosure from the White House was much fuller than what Joe Biden had put out in terms of stats and data. It should be more complete. This is a problem. I've seen it my whole career. There's been one reporter in my career, Dr. Lawrence K. Altman of the New York Times, who's really dug into this with candidates and presidents and tried to hold them accountable. And it's a big problem, which I've long said, on days when the president's gonna, the doctor's gonna brief or the press secretary is gonna brief every White House political. Because they're all political reporters should be subbed out and the health reporters should go. Because political reporters shouldn't be asking the White House press secretary or the White House doctor a medical questions. They don't have the expertise to do it. And so the Biden thing is the extreme case. But there hasn't been a single president or presidential candidate in my career who has sufficiently safeguarded the public interest by having much more disclosure than they do. And that's up to the news organizations to safeguard the public in the spirit of Dr. Altman of the New York Times, to really understand the questions to be asked and to ask them repeatedly and to demand answers. Because there's nothing, literally nothing more important to understand whether the person's up to doing the job.
- [26:51]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. And look, they're gonna get. Jill Biden is gonna get a subpoena. Joe Biden could get one. We'll see. But those around Joe Biden on that inner circle, Donilon and the others who were running cover for him are all getting subpoenaed. And like, again, the only one, I think President Trump and the comber are genuinely issued or interested in the truth, not in putting people behind bars. I'm sure Trump wouldn't mind seeing some of these people go behind bars, given what was done to him. But if they give immunity to all of these people, then they can't hide behind that, you know, the Fifth Amendment anymore. So this is gonna be an interesting one to follow. It's fascinating to see the first one on deck, Dr. Kevin O', Connor, immediately assert the fifth in response to two very anodyne questions that anybody should be able to answer without much concern. Again, were you ever told to lie about the President's health? And did you ever believe President Biden was unfit to execute his duty? That was all going down about 365 days ago. As long as we're there. Mark Halperin, let me ask you about another piece of news that just came out from that same time period. Kamala Harris. I remember we reported on this at the time, but I don't think we had the tape. She went on a podcast. You know, she decided to dip a toe into the podcast world. She went on with that vulgar sex podcaster, and they had a real heart to heart about how much they both love abortion. And she was given an invitation to go on Joe Rogan, which she was too afraid to accept. And then she swung by Subway Takes, hosted by Kareem Rama. And apparently it went so poorly that he did not release it. And he was a Kamala supporter. He was thrilled that she swung by. And he thought, worst case scenario, I can say I interviewed the sitting vice president, the possible next president, show picture to my kids. And he, Kareem just sat down with Forbes editor, with a Forbes editor and spoke to what happened in this interview that was so disastrous he never aired it. Look at this.
- [28:58]
Megyn Kelly
Sat 7 take was really confusing and weird and not good. And so mutually agreed that we shouldn't publish it. I see. And I got lucky because I didn't want to be blamed for her losing her take. Was that bad? It was really, really bad. And it was. It was like, didn't make any sense. Bacon is a spice. Bacon is a spice. Bacon is a spice. Bacon is A spice. You think that was her opinion, or you think she had, like, a research group? Try to figure something. That's research group. Because originally, the take that I was pitched was great, and it was that she does not like to take her shoes off on airplanes. And then at the last minute, I think research group said, this makes you look rich and snobby. Okay? And you need to appeal to the American people. So she went with the bacon. And I tried to pause the interview and say, trust me, we shouldn't do the bacon thing. And I was overrided by this guy who was maybe her deputy campaign manager. Hour later, I got a call that said, we can't do bacon. But then I tried to cut it into something else, and then I did make it work, and then they were like, this makes her look. And I said, whose fault is that?
- [30:12]
Mark Halperin
We. We can't. Trust me, we can't do bacon.
- [30:15]
Megyn Kelly
Mark, Megan, how bad would this interview have to go for you guys to just kill it out? This isn't going well. Kill it out. You know, my. My sort of signature line about Kamala Harris is she does not like to make difficult decisions under pressure. And you saw that as vice president. You saw that as a president.
- [30:36]
Mark Halperin
This was a tough one.
- [30:37]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. But it's like, difficult decision under pressure. Bacon as a spice. The host tells you don't do it, and you still, like, agonize over it. And.
- [30:45]
Mark Halperin
Or. And the first one before that. Don't. Don't underestimate, you know, because she also had to decide, do I stick with it's a hassle to take off my shoes. Getting onto the airplane, like something that now has been universally accepted as Trump reverses that through his tsa. She would.
- [30:59]
Megyn Kelly
Shoes. Was it shoes through TSA or was it shoes on the plane? I thought it was shoes on the plane. Maybe I misheard. Either way. Either way. Either way, it's an issue. I bet you there are a lot more stories about this, because as we saw throughout the campaign, we saw this with the endless Rogan negotiations, like, they were afraid to put her in situations. This is why when people say, oh, she was such a good candidate, is only if she hadn't been such a great candidate, you know, she couldn't have turned things around in 90 days. She's not a good candidate. She didn't perform as a good candidate. And they knew that because they had to negotiate. You know, Trump's like, somebody says, yeah, go do Rogan or go do. What's his name? The comedian who's been on your Show Theo Vaughan. No.
- [31:41]
Mark Halperin
Oh, Andrew Schultz. Andrew Schultz.
- [31:43]
Megyn Kelly
Go to Andrew. Trump should be like, yeah, let's go. I'll stay for four hours. And her team is like, what size is the table going to be? What temperature will the water be? What questions will you ask? Can we edit it? Like all these hyper controlling things. And to have her spend time doing a podcast and it's so bad it can't be aired. Maybe that's happened in American history, might have happened to Monroe, but I doubt it.
- [32:10]
Mark Halperin
She. Wait, oh, she, I guess Schultz asked her, but she declined. Of course.
- [32:15]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, yeah.
- [32:16]
Mark Halperin
What a shock.
- [32:16]
Megyn Kelly
Of course, of course.
- [32:18]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. So, but think about it, like, of all the inanities out there, like, you can't make your case about bacon in a compelling way. Like, even I could make the case that you could use bacon as a spice. I mean, I, I wouldn't argue this, but if I had to in a court of law, you know, or like model UN style, where you're, you're not given a choice, this is what you're arguing. I would say they, they dry it up, they chop it up, they put in one of those spice looking shakers. People sh. On their salad. It's even a commercial. It's, I've seen it in commercials being shaken on a salad. You could make the case if you had to.
- [32:48]
Megyn Kelly
When, when I was a child, there was a thing called BOS that probably didn't actually have bacon in it. I, I could only imagine what Bobby Kennedy would say about the ingredients of B. But, but, yeah, of course you could argue that. But, but the point is you're going on some podcast, your staff should have researched it and, and you should be swaggering in and killing it rather than having the segment actually killed because you can't perform well enough. It's why I say, like, as Bill Clinton once said about Mitt Romney, that person should not have a job that requires them to speak in public. And I think the same thing applies to her. If it's a pressure situation, and I confess, I don't know the format of this show that she went on, but it sounds like they shouldn't have gone into it without being confident that she could master it. And sounds like she couldn't.
- [33:41]
Mark Halperin
And by the way, she picked the subject, that's what's so crazy about it. That's his whole point. Like, they had settled on the shoes thing. Then she thought it would make her look too elitist because she was trying to tell us all she had jobs at McDonald's, which was under scrutiny, of course. And now she doesn't want to look like the child of privilege that she was. And so she switches to bacon as a spice. She chooses bacon as a spice. She can't make her own argument. She's so inept at it that they have to cut it out of Subway Takes a fun, light hearted show where you're supposed to just go on and show that you're. You can be a fun person.
- [34:13]
Megyn Kelly
I sort of. I sort of love that host's attitude as he explained the tragedy that he didn't want to be blamed for her losing and her performance was so bad he thought it would lead in a linear way to 270 electoral votes from Donald Trump if he had pressed. If he had pressed send and uploaded it. So I sort of enjoyed that and now I kind of want to go on that show.
- [34:31]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. The tragedy it was, he did seem to really feel this one.
- [34:36]
Megyn Kelly
Deeply, deeply, deeply.
- [34:38]
Mark Halperin
It's not good. Trust me, it's not good.
- [34:42]
Megyn Kelly
It was hard.
- [34:43]
Mark Halperin
Now he has to release the tape. Now my only goal in life is to actually see the actual space.
- [34:50]
Megyn Kelly
Ask your sound engineer to invoke the brotherhood and sisterhood of sound engineers and see if we can't create the world. Exclusive on that.
- [34:58]
Mark Halperin
Yes. I mean, like it, you know, it'd be like some of those Diddy tapes. We don't have to say where they came from. We don't have to be explicit.
- [35:05]
Megyn Kelly
It could be someone went rogue and let's crank up the AI or finger puppets, because I don't want just the audio. I want. I want to see something.
- [35:13]
Mark Halperin
Maybe it'll be my next parody. Mark, you can play. You could play the podcaster and I'll play Kamala Harris.
- [35:18]
Megyn Kelly
We could, we could do it in the next segment. We could do. You'd be. I'll be the podcaster and you explain to me bacon as a spice in a way so inept that the host, who was sympathetic to her, said it would eliminate her chances of getting to 270 electoral votes had it ever been uploaded to Spotify.
- [35:34]
Mark Halperin
It's really unbelievable. Okay, wait, I'm loving this. This walk down memory lane. There's. There's more news from this same time frame. Can you believe it was only 12 months ago, where there's yet another book out on Joe Biden and his mental decline. And this book is by Josh Dossey of the Washington Post and two others who were formerly at the Washington Post. And this book talks about how I think it was Dossey, one of the three, got the Phone number of Joe Biden. Managed to get the cell number of Joe Biden. Meanwhile, Trump gives his cell phone number out to, like, everybody. It was funny. It was about, I don't know, a year and a half ago. Dan Bongino was on the show, and he's talking about how he talks to the President on the cell phone all the time. He's like, yeah, you probably have it. You know, I was like, no, no.
- [36:19]
Megyn Kelly
It's crawled on the wall of every cracker barrel south of the Mason Dixon Line.
- [36:24]
Mark Halperin
Well, now Trump and I are in touch via Sal, but at the time, we weren't. I was last of the party. Anyway, he's very easy to give it out. He wants to talk to the press. He wants to talk to everybody. Joe Biden, completely the opposite. Kamala Harris, completely the opposite. But really, there was reason for Joe Biden's aides to not let him be too easily accessible. And so he. He gets the number somehow. He doesn't reveal how. And he writes about how this past March, March of 2025, after Joe Biden's left office, Donald Trump has been sworn in. He calls him up and says, I'd like to talk to you. And Joe Biden says, all right, well, I'm. I'm busy now, but, you know, call me back and we'll talk. So he did. He called him back and they had a very quick conversation as Joe Biden was leaving for the train or something like that, about how things were going. My team, can you guys help me out? What page is this on in the packet? Because I want to get the actual back and forth on how it went. Oh, here it is, page five.
- [37:19]
Megyn Kelly
I think it's. I think it's Tyler Pager, not Josh Dawsey.
- [37:23]
Mark Halperin
He was one of the co authors. Tyler Pager. Yeah, you're right. It's Tyler Pager. Okay, so let's see. Yes. Tyler Pager writes as follows. So he said he'd be willing to speak for the book the next day. The next morning, he answered and said he was running late to catch a train. He said he had a very negative view of Trump's second term. I don't see anything he's done that's been productive, he said. Asked if he had any regrets about dropping out of the presidential race, he said, no, not now. I don't spend a lot of time on regrets. He quickly hung up to get on the train. Listen to this. After the first call, the book continues. Furious Biden aides repeatedly called and texted Tyler Pager after The brief second call. His aides blocked the reporter's calls to the former president. Two days later, a message from Verizon Wireless replaced Biden's voicemail message with the number you dialed has been changed, disconnected, or is no longer in service. They were that upset that one Washington Post reporter. It's not like Megyn Kelly got the number, had managed to break through the fortress and speak with the now former president, that they actually changed it sounds like the president's cell phone number.
- [38:40]
Megyn Kelly
Well, and of course, contrast to the fact that, as you said, you're the last reporter in the world who had Donald Trump's cell number. And he picks up all the time or calls people all the time. The posture that the communications staff around Joe Biden had and has now apparently was to protect him and to keep him from talking. And they hid behind this fiction that it was about, you know, he's, you know, he always had what was called impolitely diarrhea of the mouth. He was never a safe bet to be free. And in talking to reporters without supervision. But that was before his cognitive decline. And again, it's testament to the palace guard determination that allowed them, to their professional credit in some ways, to get the guy through four years, even though the cognitive decline began before he even took the oath of office in 2021. They made it through because they browbeat reporters. And, you know, I laugh when people who work for politicians call me and say, how dare you ask my boss a question? I laugh and say, that's my job. And it's their job to decide whether they want to answer or not. If you think your job is to try to stop me, good luck to you. But that was the posture of the Biden folks. And I, I think they're right to highlight in the book that the extreme measures they took to keep the reporter from trying to ask Joe Biden questions.
- [40:00]
Mark Halperin
Okay, so meanwhile, staying in the same timeframe, Selena Zito's out with her new book, Butler, and it's a great book, highly recommend, and it's already doing very well. And it takes a look at what happened at Butler. It takes a look at the shooter, Thomas Crooks, and why we don't know more about him. And takes a look at Selena's bird's eye view from the whole thing. She was steps away from the president when he got shot. And what was in the news yesterday was a report that these Democrats are now so determined to stop Trump and to get themselves in the news as, like, fighters and also cool that they are Actually saying someone needs to get shot. Someone needs to go to one of these, like, ICE facilities, these detention facilities, and get so in the face of ICE or the guards who are on duty that they, meaning a Democratic lawmaker, this is Democrats saying this, actually get shot, which I would suggest to you is inspired by, in a weird, sick, warped way, what we saw in Butler, because the Democrats went into total denial that, that it had even happened when we saw Trump get shot and then rise up with the fight, fight, fight. In an extraordinary moment. They remember all the truthers on the, on the Trump shooting, Joy, Reid, Olbermann, there, there were people you didn't even expect, people who are more mainstream, who are like, I don't believe it, you know, like, I actually want to see the injury, who are pretending that the whole thing was made up. And now they've morphed. All this time later, after it's been confirmed by the FBI, it was the Joe Biden FBI that confirmed Trump had been shot in the ear and so on. Now they have to accept that it happened and now he's won and they see that obviously the way he handled it and all of it propelled him to even more popular status. Now they're like, someone needs to take a bullet. That's what's real, that's what's strong. And so, Mark, just further proof that they've lost their minds.
- [42:00]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. So I think there's two things about Trump Derangement syndrome that, that are a little bit seeming in contradiction. One is, I think we shouldn't use it promiscuously. We shouldn't attribute any opposition to Donald Trump to. We shouldn't attribute it to Trump Derangement syndrome because sometimes there's principled opposition that, that's not deranged. But the other thing is, I don't think we've sufficiently understood the extent to which that is in the minds of so many Democrats, both prominent Democrats and rank and file Democrats, truly a phenomena that causes them to say and do things that not only are over the top, but are actually helpful to Donald Trump. And this is another example of that. You'd have to have severe Trump derangement syndrome to say, well, look how much being shot helped Trump, so we need to try that ourselves. And yet again, that is, unfortunately for the Democrats and I think for America, the point of view of far too many. I don't know, there was a blind quote. Who knows how pervasive that sentiment is or who.
- [43:03]
Mark Halperin
Well, they are getting aggressive at ICE detention facilities.
- [43:06]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, they are. Yeah. That was in Lawmakers, but it was opponents policy. Oh, I see what you're saying. I thought you meant the thing in Texas the other day. Yeah, no, they have been aggressive. I think that. And Selena and I talked about this on Nextup. Besides denying he was shot, besides trying to, you know, memory hole it and not cover it, you know, very much. Besides showing a total lack of curiosity about the motive of the shooter. They also, again, act as if Donald Trump, you know, either did this on purpose or was exploiting it in some way that was improper. Just, just a former president, United States was shot. And, and, and they can't bring themselves to do anything but be confounded by it, as opposed to concerned about it or sympathetic about it. And at the end, it's another manifestation of Trump derangement syndrome. That's not good for anybody except maybe Donald Trump.
- [44:02]
Mark Halperin
What was so hard about the Trump assassination attempt for them wasn't even that he got shot. It was how he handled was a superhero moment. It just was. It's the way every. I don't know about every woman, but every man on earth. It's the way they hope they would react if, God forbid, this happened to them, you know, with strength and defiance and dignity and as a leader and keeping the crowd calm, all of it. It was superhero. It was superhuman.
- [44:36]
Megyn Kelly
Real life Rambo.
- [44:38]
Mark Halperin
And that's why they can't stand it. That's why they went into. It's. It's not real. He faked it. You know, he's not injured. The ear thing is fake.
- [44:48]
Megyn Kelly
He.
- [44:49]
Mark Halperin
And they're still reeling because he actually won the presidency. I don't know. I heard you talking about this on your show. And it was just how profound that moment was and how the remnants of it, you know, the consequences of it are still very much lingering, you know, with the Trump loyalists and with his greatest detractors.
- [45:06]
Megyn Kelly
Yep, both camps for sure.
- [45:10]
Mark Halperin
Okay, so that's Butler. But out of Butler, he attracted a brand new and very important friend, and that was Elon Musk. Now Elon Musk is now a frenemy or maybe true enemy. I don't know which one. But not really friend of President Trump's anymore. The breakup feels real after some, like, sniffing around about maybe we're gonna make up. Seems like they're not making up. He was out there just the other day. Of course, he tweeted that Trump was on the Epstein list and then said he regretted tweeting that. And then he tweeted, tweeted that Bannon is on the Epstein list. And then Said Bannon is going to be in jail. And now Bannon is out there today. Linda Yaccarino announced this morning she's resigning from X, the CEO for the past two years. And Bannon saying she's going to go to jail, too. So it's like a war between these guys.
- [46:02]
Megyn Kelly
What would she get?
- [46:03]
Mark Halperin
Bannon, not only she's not going to jail, but Bannon is not only angry at mosque, but Musk has formed this third party, the America Party. And the conventional wisdom is that this is only going to hurt Republicans. And I think he means it to hurt Republicans. He's very angry at the Republicans who voted for the one big beautiful bill after running for office, saying that they'd be fiscal conservatives and that they didn't want to increase, increase the deficit or the debt. And Harry Entin over at cnn, their data guru guy, took a look at Musk and this third party and here's what he had to say about it. Saw three.
- [46:39]
Megyn Kelly
This entire thing makes very little sense to me. It makes about as much sense as selling sand in the desert. What is the size of Elon Musk's base? Well, I calculate it to be about 4%. Just 4%. 1, 2, 3, 4% of all voters. What is that base made up of? Well, it's those who view Elon Musk favorably and the GOP unfavorably. We're talking just about 4% of all voters out there because it turns out most of the people who like Elon Musk already like the GOP already, that is, they already have a party forum. Americans with an unfavorable view of Ross Perot was only 14% back in 1992. Now, the vast majority of Americans are already against dilemmas. 58% elected to Congress from a third party since 1970. Just 0.2% of all winners of all winners were either third party, independent or right. We're only talking about 24 out of over 13,000 winners. The bottom line is third party independence. They just don't succeed.
- [47:42]
Mark Halperin
Is he wrong?
- [47:44]
Megyn Kelly
First of all, do you know Harry?
- [47:46]
Mark Halperin
No, but I'd love to.
- [47:47]
Megyn Kelly
Well, he's a friend of mine. We have dinner occasionally. We have mutual friends. We've. We have dinner. And I got to say, that's how Harry talks at dinner, too. It's extremely exhausting. That. Does he, does he go like level of intimacy?
- [47:57]
Mark Halperin
It was up here and now it's down here.
- [48:00]
Megyn Kelly
They'll say, I want the veal, I want the beef. How's the beef? Is the beef good? I need the Beef. The beef is 18%. He's very intense.
- [48:06]
Mark Halperin
The appetizer was out of this world.
- [48:09]
Megyn Kelly
Exactly. You need four things to have even the premise of a possible third party in a country unlike all the other industrialized democracies, that is built legally, institutionally, culturally to keep the duopoly of the two major parties. You need a lot of money, right? Because it's expensive to launch something. Check. A lot of money. Although, you know, a lot of money. Like, would he spend, you know, a billion dollars? I don't know. A lot of money, number one. Number two, you need a person who's popular and who people listen to and look to to say, yeah, that person's going to be different than Tweedledee and Tweedledum. It's not musk. Because as Harry correctly points out, he's not popular. So he's going to have to find a horse. And whether that's several horses to run Senate and House races or a presidential candidate, he's got to find actual human beings like Perot who are compelling. Three, you need an issue agenda that the other parties would have trouble matching, and I don't know what that is because he talks about fiscal discipline. Is he going to be the party of cutting Social Security benefits? I don't know how he's going to have an issues agenda like Perot did, although his had some problems too, but at least had something to talk about. And then lastly, you need an army of really talented political operatives who are willing to take your money to execute on ballot access and issue development and communications. I think he's. You said check on number one. I don't think he has the other three. So if he wants to make a few willing consultants super rich by wasting the money, he can. But I don't. I don't see it as a practical matter how he goes from his current temper tantrum and anger at the Republicans to doing anything like starting a third party, even getting a single House member elected. It's very difficult to do in this country.
- [49:55]
Mark Halperin
Well, Andrew Yang is out there saying, you know, I did it and you know, this is how you do it. And he's saying he did manage to get candidates elected, that it's really not that hard.
- [50:05]
Megyn Kelly
Andrew really didn't. I mean, maybe, maybe I missed it and he got some dog catcher elected somewhere. But Andrew is a very smart guy. He's well meaning. I think he understands the challenges of this. But they've been at it for, you know, a long time now, I think. I think a couple years. And they've not broken through because again, this country is, is as much as people have been alienated by the two parties, it just, it's inhospitable legally, politically, culturally, to try to start a third party. Just, just tough.
- [50:36]
Mark Halperin
It's why Trump ran as a Republican, even though he definitely was not a Republican and probably really isn't still a Republican, much to the constraint of much of the party.
- [50:46]
Megyn Kelly
He created a third party and he slapped a Republican sticker on it.
- [50:49]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, he changed the Republican Party into his image because he wasn't really a Republican. He certainly wasn't a traditional Republican on so many issues. And. But that's what you have to do. And by the way, that's another thing. Like many of us did not believe that Trump was pro life at all. But you can't get the nomination as a Republican without saying that you are. And then he governed as a pro lifer, so no one really cares, you know, like Republicans. Like, fine, I don't. What's in his heart is his business. But he's been a very pro life president.
- [51:19]
Megyn Kelly
The most successful pro life president in the country's history.
- [51:22]
Mark Halperin
Exactly. So, you know, it's kind of irrelevant. All right, stand by. More with Mark coming up. He's the host of Next up with Mark Halpern. You should go and subscribe to his podcast right now. When your metabolism works properly, you feel the benefits in so many aspects of life. And that's why I want to tell you about Lumen. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. The app lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives tailored guidance to improve nutrition, workout, sleep, and even stress management. Just breathe into your lumen first thing in the morning and you will know if you're burning fats or carbs and more. You even get a personalized nutrition plan after your daily measurements. Breathe into it before and after workouts and meals. For even more tips to stay on top of your health game. Your metabolism is how your body turns the food you eat into fuel that keeps you going. And optimal metabolic health translates to easier weight management, improved energy levels, better sleep, and more. The warmer months are here. Prioritize your health and fitness with Lumen. Go to Lumen Me Megan to get 10% off your Lumen. That's L U M E N.me M E Megan to get 10% off your purchase. And thank you, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode.
- [52:36]
Megyn Kelly
Smokey the bear.
- [52:37]
Mark Halperin
After 80 years of learning his wildfire prevention tips.
- [52:40]
Megyn Kelly
Smokey Bear lives within us all.
- [52:42]
Mark Halperin
Learn more@st.smokeybear.com and remember, only you can prevent wildfires brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester and the Ad Council. This time yesterday, literally 24 hours ago, we were watching the following out of the White House Cabinet meeting where the subject of Jeffrey Epstein came up and Donald Trump injected himself into the exchange, which was meant to be between the New York Post reporter and Pam Bondi, as follows. Sat 1 your memo and released yesterday, Jeffrey Epstein left some lingering mysteries. One of the biggest ones is whether.
- [53:23]
Megyn Kelly
He ever worked for a American or foreign intelligence agency. So can you resolve whether or not he did? And also can you say why there.
- [53:31]
Mark Halperin
Was a minute missing from the jailhouse team?
- [53:33]
Megyn Kelly
Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking. We have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable. Do you want to waste the time and do you feel like answering?
- [53:53]
Mark Halperin
I don't mind answering.
- [53:54]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I can't believe you're asking a question on Epstein at a time like this where we're having some of the greatest success and also tragedy with what happened in Texas. It just seems like a desecration. But you go ahead.
- [54:08]
Mark Halperin
Okay. Trump himself promised full transparency on the Jeffrey Epstein case when he was running for president. This has been a big issue on the right. My friend Dan Bongino was one of the people who made it a big issue. So did Cash Patel talking about it over and over and over again. It is just not real for Trump to pretend he's shocked. This is still an issue. Nothing's been resolved, nothing's been released. He promised transparency, as did his attorney general. And then they release a memo saying, you're not getting anything. It's over. Just trust us. And that was not real. Trump pretending he shocked that people are still interested in it. Your take, Mark.
- [54:53]
Megyn Kelly
Well, let me first talk about that soundbite. And then the bigger issue. So I'm a student of Donald Trump and how he handles public appearances, as are you. And I don't have the world's most sensitive spidey sense, but I got some spidey sense that he regularly says. I don't like that question, does it all the time. But that was with a purpose. Okay. So I don't think, I don't see how anyone could look at that and not see an attempt by the president to intimidate the press from Ever asking again about it. That's how I read it. What are the arguments against withholding? What are the arguments for transparency? MAGA really wants it. I keep a running list here of all the news organizations on the right and individuals who are demanding transparency. Still, it's a long list and it includes many people who are typically automatically supportive of the President. So MAGA wants it, his base wants it. Two, it's the right thing to do for the victims and for public trust. Three, as you said, the President supported this on a regular basis. And four, they said they were going to do it. So there's a credibility issue. So all those things would argue for disclosure, transparency, release. What's on the other side? I pause, I pause pregnantly. What's on the other side? What's on the other side is a suspicion that this is intended to protect rich and powerful men. So I, I, I, I think that, that this could go either way. The news cycle could move on. MAGA often will pick fights with Donald Trump and then move on. They're a resilient group. So this and, and, and the press core, the dominant press corps, the, the so called legacy media, they have for years and they're continuing now to be remarkably uninterested in what is both an important and interesting story. Something the press corps normally covers. Okay, so I think it could go either way. This could disappear and those who don't want further disclosure could have their way get away with it or those demanding justice and disclosure could get their way. I don't know which way it's going to go, but again, I'll go back to the first thing I said. That was a remarkable performance by the President.
- [57:15]
Mark Halperin
It was an obvious attempt to deflect and to set the messaging like we're not talking about Epstein anymore, period. And I'm the head of MAGA and that's what I say. But it's too late. That animal has already been created and it's pretty ferocious. It's not going to be tamed just by one line from the President at a cabinet meeting. He helped create it. He helped inspired it, his top lieutenants helped create it. And we too have been watching the reaction amongst the most faithful supporters of the President. We put together a butted soundbite in this. You'll hear names, you'll hear from names that you know. The only one who doesn't seem to be demanding more is our friend Ben Shapiro. But you'll hear almost a uniform tone from literally almost everyone else on the right. Take a listen.
- [58:04]
Megyn Kelly
Nobody told us prior to this, that the Epstein files would be anywhere, even on the agenda for that day. And it was really sprung as a surprise to all of us. We get handed these binders, and then before we even have a chance to look into them, we're hauled out, actually in front of the cameras that were all there. We don't have the accountability that was spoken of. We don't have the releases that were spoken of. And it's just. It's indefensible. It's indefensible that the answers aren't there when so much was promised. As someone who voted for the President, campaigned for the President a lot, I'm not attacking the President, but I think even people who are fully on board with, you know, the bulk of the MAGA agenda are like, this is. This is too much. Actually.
- [58:47]
Mark Halperin
Yes.
- [58:47]
Megyn Kelly
I'm saying that with love, and I hope that they're listening, because I think this threatens to blow up the whole thing. By the way, when Pam Bondi went on television, said, I have a videotape of kids getting abused, I didn't. I follow this case closely, and I know a lot of the people involved, as I've told you, I had no idea. I didn't know that. Really. Thousands of children got raped. Who raped them? Where are the rapists? Like, why aren't they in jail? What? This is the Department of Justice? Yes. Yes. That is so crazy. This is like. This is honestly one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my entire life. And I just think it's very dangerous to play around with this stuff. Can't the Department of Justice move to unseal things that were put under seal? Isn't that technically the way that this could potentially be brought to the public? Because I think we need mass disclosure. I think we need more information, at least for my under 30 crowd. I know my demo. They are volcanic over this whole thing. And by the way, the over 60 crowd, they're like, Epstein, whatever. Not a big deal. No, but under 30. Can you explain that to our audience, too, Mike? The hyper, online under 30 crowd. This is a major, major issue. If you're willing to throw that over and claim they're lying, then I'd like to see you present your evidence that they are, in fact, lying. Because I know Dan. I don't think the Dan Pacino is lying to me. I know Cash Patel a little bit. I don't think Cash Patel is lying to me. I don't think these people are lying to me. Which means that if somebody Else continues to claim that they're lying. They ought to provide their evidence at this point. Pam Bondi needs to be fired. Who is rolling this out? The Little Rascals. Pinky, look, I got some videotape. What are you doing? This is ridiculous.
- [60:30]
Mark Halperin
Really interesting, right, Mark?
- [60:33]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Every time I see Ben Shapiro, I think maybe I should adopt more of his voice for my show. I feel like he's on. He's onto something with that voice. You know, I, as you and I have talked about, you know, Charlie and Tucker are extremely influential with the administration. And when they say not just the morally right thing to do, but the. But the demand of the base is more disclosure and then. But. But Ben gives voice to the reality for some, which is Pam Bondi is taking a lot more heat than Cash. Patel and Dan are a lot more. And yet they're out there with more specificity saying, trust us, Case closed. So I'll continue to watch to see how they handle this. The president endorsed them on. On True Social the other day. Not specifically on this issue, but in general.
- [61:18]
Mark Halperin
Not her, but.
- [61:20]
Megyn Kelly
But not her. Although he was pretty friendly in the. In the Cabinet Room, but he knew she was.
- [61:25]
Mark Halperin
She was twisting by a string, and he did not send out a nice tweet about her.
- [61:29]
Megyn Kelly
Now, now, you didn't include Laura Loomer in your mashup. She's. She. She is much derided, obviously, and, and there are people in the White House who don't like her influence, but she doesn't lose that often. She doesn't lose that often. And she's. She's very hepped up about this. But, But I'll say again, there's a lot of.
- [61:47]
Mark Halperin
She wants Bonnie fired.
- [61:48]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, There are a lot of mag. Obsessions that. That aren't necessarily in the public interest or aren't rooted in truth, justice, and the American way. This is a real thing. And Tucker, I think, gave voice to it. Like. Like, forget the conspiracy theories. Just deal with the reality of how this man was treated by the criminal justice system and how. How discouraging that was not just to the victims, but to people who believe in justice and people who believe in the American system. Treating people fairly like this requires extraordinarily detailed care and disclosure. And the administration, after championing it and after knowing full well how important it was, as Charlie said, to so many of Americans, regardless of their political donation, is basically saying, trust this case closed. And it could sustain. But I don't think it will, and I don't think it should, because imagine the status quo and what that will do to people's lack of trust in the government and in and commitments that have been made.
- [62:54]
Mark Halperin
Listening to the theorizing around it has been fascinating. Just this morning I was listening to Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert and also just very bright social commentator, and he was saying, let's just say without evidence. He was very open, but this was just a theory. Let's just say that there is some Israel connection with Epstein, like he was an agent, something collecting kompromat on various people. And he went to Trump and said, you gotta make this go away. And Trump went to Bongino and Patel and Bondi and said, for the sake of peace in the Middle east, we're moving on. There's nothing to see here. And that's what I want you to say. Would I consider that a lie I couldn't forgive? That's a Scott Adams still, no, I wouldn't. He said, and I mean, the President. This is total speculation, but the President going to those three and saying, it's over. I don't care what you say, but you have to make it go away, we're moving on. Would explain the way all three have behaved over the past couple of weeks.
- [64:00]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Again, if they're telling the truth and they really believe that the right thing for the world is to say there's nothing to see here, didn't commit suicide, wasn't murdered, didn't have a list, nothing more to disclose, that would be good for the public to know. Then they're doing a crap job explaining why they're doing a crap job giving us confidence. There needs to be long interviews, long press conferences, not just the statement, and not just short disclosure. And they need to walk through it all. Pam Bondi yesterday says, well, there's a minute gap every day maybe, but minute gap is something that you know is not, is not going to go away without a really clear explanation.
- [64:43]
Mark Halperin
And I'll say that like it was a nothing. Everybody was like, wait, what? It's real. The minute before midnight thing is real and you thought you were just going to get away with it.
- [64:51]
Megyn Kelly
Every night on Next up, there's a minute gap every episode where I tell my best jokes and the producers cut.
- [64:57]
Mark Halperin
Them out and someone winds up dead, FYI. Yeah, so what?
- [65:01]
Megyn Kelly
Wait, what? Someone dies at the end of every episode? Again, the Mossad thing. In my world, the Mossad thing's very big as a matter of speculation. But the other speculation is, as my friend Dan Turnheim says, Donald Trump, you know, has deep affiliations where Jeffrey Epstein did in South Florida and on the Upper east side of New York City. And so maybe he's trying to protect friends. Now, some people say he's trying to protect himself. No idea. But as I said before, there needs to be an explanation for what they're doing, because all the. All the. All the equities, all of the logic, all the doing the right thing falls on the decide of disclosure. So if they're telling the truth, if they're confident that there is nothing more to disclose, it would be in the public interest to know. They need to do a better job of walking us through that and not just saying to reporters, how dare you ask?
- [65:55]
Mark Halperin
Mm. This has been getting bandied about on X quite a bit. Elon, as I mentioned, has weighed in on a couple of people. I didn't know that Roger Stone, longtime Trump advisor, also hates Steve Bannon. Elon hates Steve. Roger hates, hates Elon.
- [66:18]
Megyn Kelly
Just for the record, I like. Just for the record, I like them all.
- [66:21]
Mark Halperin
Okay, so Roger. Sorry, Roger doesn't hate Elon. Roger hates Bannon. Yeah, no, I mean, I got no horse in this race, but I think it's interesting to watch. And here is what happened between them. Yesterday, Elon tweeted, how can people be expected to have faith in Trump if he won't release the Epstein files? Someone responded, will exposing the Epstein files rank high on the America Party's list? Musk. Musk says 100%. Then Elon tweeted out, bannon is in the Epstein files, but didn't offer any evidence to back it up. But he was responding to tweets from Roger Stone as follows. Quote, why would Bannon meet with Jeffrey Epstein both at his New York home and in Paris after Epstein was convicted on sex crimes in Florida? Why would he coach Epstein for his 60 Minutes appearance? This appears to stem from a 2021 book by Michael Wolf that Bannon helped Epstein prepare for a CBS 60 Minutes interview that never happened. And it's quoting here, I believe, quoting Bannon, quote, you're engaging. You're not threatening. You're a natural. You're friendly. You don't look at all creepy. You're a sympathetic figure, said Bannon during the early 2019 coaching and feedback session. Per the book, Bannon confirmed to the New York Times that he encouraged Epstein to do a 60 Minutes interview and recorded more than 15 hours of interviews with the disgraced financier. Bannon told the New York Times, however, that he never did media train anyone and was instead working on the unannounced documentary to Demonstrate how Epstein's, quote, perversions and depravity toward young women were part of a life that. That was systematically supported, encouraged and rewarded by a global establishment that dined off of his money and his influence. That's kind of mind blowing. 15 hours of tape. And Bannon today was critical. I watched his show yesterday. He was critical of the way this is being handled and was demanding more transparency. But the point is simply this thing has tentacles that reach deep, pretty much everywhere. And I don't know, Mark, whether we're ever going to have it fully figured out.
- [68:30]
Megyn Kelly
Well, it's hard to know because this administration doesn't seem on track to do it. They could reverse course. Could be another taco situation. I doubt the press will do it because. Because some press has tried. It's hard. Right. No subpoena power. I don't know that Congress is going to do it. I don't know that any prosecutor's going to do it.
- [68:50]
Mark Halperin
Tom Fitton is saying he's going to do it. Who? Tom Fitton.
- [68:55]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Judicial Watch should try, but their main bag of tricks involves trying to get courts to do things. I think that somebody would have to engage in a pretty thorough effort with subpoena power, ideally to figure out what to do. But it starts with the executive branch because they've got access to all these documents which they say aren't going to be released. So it's a. It's a. It's going to. It's going to. The tale will be told by whether the administration changes its posture. If the President and the Justice Department, the FBI continue to say case closed, then the ball is going to move to another court. But they're the, they're the. They're in the best position to, to do something about it. And as for the fights amongst people like Bannon and Stone, I've got some friends who don't like each other and pretty strongly in a couple of cases. But the president has just an enormous capacity to be friends with both Haeckel and Jekyll and the hatfields and the McCoys. And that's just part of the colorful salon surrounding our President.
- [70:06]
Mark Halperin
I just feel like no one's gonna subpoena anyone because the Democrats probably have too many high ranking people on their side who they're worried are in those files. And clearly the Republicans may have some bodies.
- [70:16]
Megyn Kelly
Bur although your best friend Jamie Raskin and some other House Democrats did write to the Justice Department or the White House. I don't know which administration joining the court. The chorus of those saying please release everything. So if they're worried about Democrats, they're not acting like they are.
- [70:34]
Mark Halperin
Well, they don't have subpoena power right now. They're not in control.
- [70:37]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [70:38]
Mark Halperin
So you know, let's see what they do if and when they win back the House. Yeah, I do think the President's going to hear more from people. I don't think you see people standing down on this. On the right. The biggest mistake Pam Bondi made was dragging those influencers into the White House and humiliating them. They're keeping score. I started that clip with Jack Posobiek who was one of them. Liz Wheeler is another. She'll be on this program tomorrow telling us the full story of what happened there. It's not as we thought. It's actually a little different and she's going to tell. But I think they're rightfully pissed off on what was done to them and the only way it could have been fixed was if then Pam Bondi did deliver, did make good on her promise to give the Epstein files to them and instead they got stiff armed just like everybody else. And I just wanna make one other comment on what Tucker was saying in that clip with Sagar and Jetty on his show on Tucker show My understanding on the children that the child sexual assault material, child pornography we used to call it, is that they have tens of thousands of images on Jeffrey Epstein's computer that prove the guy was into that stuff. That he was looking at highly contrabanded materials of young children. And that is a new disclosure. And Pam Bondi had referenced it when caught on tape with James o'. Keefe. And then she went to the microphones herself and said it so that she couldn't look like she was gotten by James o'. Keefe. But now they're saying it more explicitly. That's what they're referring to. I have no reason to believe this is. These are in fact, I believe it's the opposite, that these were Jeffrey Epstein victims, you know, in person. It was his chosen pornography. It's disgusting. But that's that what they're saying in the memo is that there are about 1,000 Jeffrey Epstein victims, actual victims, and by that they mean young women. Again, I've been describing them as barely legal because somebody very close to the case told me that's what he was into. Like in terms of actual physical interactions, it was the barely legal type like the 17, 18 year olds who looked 14. There are over a thousand victims like that who were brought into the Epstein mansion and the typical M.O. we've learned this throughout the cases is they would be brought into the Epstein property, they would be funneled into some room, they would be paid, these young, young girls would be paid to give Jeffrey Epstein an X rated massage. You know, they were sort of lured, many of them tolding, being told it's just going to be a massage and you can make some extra money. And they would do it and then it would turn X rated. Mostly it was just these girls pleasuring Jeffrey Epstein. It wasn't like an actual sex act. Forgive me for getting graphic, but this is what the evidence has been. And so that's what they're talking about. Just to distinguish, I have yet to hear anything putting a number of victims that Jeffrey or Ghislaine farmed out to other men. Now, that's not to say Megyn Kelly knows there were none. It's just I have never heard any specifics on that. I've heard the names like the guy who owned Victoria's Secret, how he was down at Epstein island, and I've heard a Bill Gates connection. All that that everybody else has heard too. I just haven't seen the proof that shows. And this person was farmed out. A young girl that participated in the trafficking of a young girl. There's Virginia Giuffre, who was definitely one of Epstein's victims and was in a photo with Prince Andrew. And Prince Andrew himself has been, you know, just all over the board on this and clearly isn't being 100% honest, but she's also dishonest. She's passed now, so forgive me, but she's, she was definitely lying in part about her experiences in the Epstein lair. She's the one who accused Alan Dershowitz after somebody else came to her and said, why don't she include Alan Dershowitz? That would really get you some attention. That's how he got looped in. She wound up dismissing that case, saying, oh, I may have misremembered Alan Dershowitz totally, had disproven her allegations. He could prove he wasn't even anywhere near any of Epstein's properties on the day she said she saw him and was with him and all that stuff. So anyway, the whole thing is just such a morass, Mark, that I, you know, as a lawyer, I, I just want to follow actual facts and actual evidence. And that hasn't made it all that clear to me other than what I've said.
- [74:53]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, and, and I'll put some responsibility on the shoulders of the Florida prosecutors and the federal Prosecutors who, who should had subpoena power. And I wish had been clearer about what, what the conduct was.
- [75:07]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, and who knows why they didn't. I mean there. It could be they or somebody they knew was compromised. It could be he was an intelligent intelligence agent. That was a very weird thing of Pam Bondi's answer yesterday, which we didn't play today, but we played it yesterday where she was like, oh, as for your question about whether he was an agent, I haven't looked into that. I'll get back to you on that. What? This is one of the main theories about him. I mean, how do I as a member of the press know that? And you know it. The audience knows it. And Pam Bondi doesn't know that's what that was a lie. She does know. So why didn't she tell. Again, raising more questions than answers, including about the. The Minute Before Midnight, which we decided yesterday is a great name for a movie about this whole thing. And we just showed the audience while you were talking that we went back and found the tape. You can see the jump cut there. There is, there's a cut. There's a minute before, a minute that midnight that was cut out of the Epstein.
- [75:58]
Megyn Kelly
Every night happens every night.
- [76:00]
Mark Halperin
So if you wanted to kill Jeffrey Epstein, you would know you had the minute before midnight. My one, my one caution on the whole jail cell. The jail cell video is, have you seen the two guards? Have you seen these two guys? Like it's a gallon a guy.
- [76:14]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, yeah, they are.
- [76:15]
Mark Halperin
Forgive me, but they're like obese, classic civil servant looking people in New York. Their excuses. We were surfing the net and asleep, which is why we weren't really monitoring what was going, which I totally believe and the opposite requires me to believe that maybe they were in on this conspiracy. They, they allowed somebody to get in there. All this time they've managed to keep their mouths shut. They haven't leaked it to anybody. I have a hard time buying it.
- [76:44]
Megyn Kelly
I hear you, but I tend to think of it the opposite way, which is to me, they're the weak link in those who want to dismiss the possibility he was killed because the series of events that had to occur on their end to allow him to kill himself undetected, it's just, it's too much for me.
- [77:04]
Mark Halperin
It's just too many part that the incompetence, that's all that it requires you to believe.
- [77:09]
Megyn Kelly
Very easy requires. It requires a level of incompetence over a long period of time. That's possible. But. But in Conjunction with him not having someone in the cell with him in conjunction with the one minute gap. It's too much. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's what someone inclined to use cliches would call a perfect storm. That they would be that 100% derelict in what they were supposed to do for that length of time on this particular case.
- [77:38]
Mark Halperin
Mark Halbrin, have you ever been to the post office?
- [77:42]
Megyn Kelly
The post office?
- [77:43]
Mark Halperin
City. The DMV in New York City?
- [77:46]
Megyn Kelly
I have. And, and I understand what you're saying. Although my post office in New York City is actually pretty good. So I've, I've become a little bit, a little bit less, less suspect of civil servants. I, I hear what you're saying. I'm just saying go look at the, the accounts given of all the things they had to do wrong for this to happen. It's a lot of.
- [78:08]
Mark Halperin
I was like, yeah, seems right. You can see them on the tape surfing the net. One's asleep, like, yeah, that looks about right on Brand.
- [78:14]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, but, but, but the point is. Well, let me just.
- [78:17]
Mark Halperin
The biggest thing for me is the, the autopsy that Jeffrey Epstein's brother had done with Dr. Baden saying, this looks like a murder.
- [78:23]
Megyn Kelly
You be Nancy Drew, I'll be a Hardy Boy. All those things had to happen when he wanted to kill himself, right? In other words, how did he know that they were going to be so down on the job that he had an opportunity to kill himself? Right.
- [78:38]
Mark Halperin
He was also a New Yorker and.
- [78:41]
Megyn Kelly
He just said, I know they're going to fall asleep and search the web. So now's my chance.
- [78:45]
Mark Halperin
He took a shot. No, he was like, they don't. He's been, he'd been there for a while, Mark. He's like, they don't come in. They ignore me. I know they're going to be asleep. They never bother me between 12 and 3. Now's my chance.
- [78:57]
Megyn Kelly
They didn't do that every night. That's the thing. They didn't do it every night. There's no, there's no documentation. We don't know that they did it every night.
- [79:04]
Mark Halperin
Exactly.
- [79:05]
Megyn Kelly
So he, so he's taken a chance to try to kill himself. Saying chances are they're not going to come in and stop me. I'm not saying he didn't kill himself. I'm just saying, I just, it's too, it's, it's like the guy who shot at Trump. There's all this stuff that had to happen for him to be able to shoot at Trump and it all happened. It just seems a little weird.
- [79:27]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, well, I don't disagree. I'm just trying to strongman the other position because I also have questions about whether Jeffrey Epstein really killed himself and in particular that Dr. Baden autopsy for me, because that's actual proof. Now we're talking real hardcore evidence. The absence of other things can be evidence too. But that's, that's the thing. I've never gotten by. And look, I, it's possible that the brother got to him and said, I really want this to come out this the following way and did it.
- [79:51]
Megyn Kelly
It's possible.
- [79:52]
Mark Halperin
Hired guns sometimes do that.
- [79:54]
Megyn Kelly
How often in the history of suicides, including prison suicides, have you heard an account of someone caught in the act and stopped? How often have you heard of that happening? I can't think of a single example of it.
- [80:07]
Mark Halperin
Never.
- [80:07]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, right. So again, even if they, even if he said, yeah, those two are clowns, they probably won't come in. Here's my chance. They could have come in. They could have heard something there. There might not have been a one minute gap. Right. So again, it had. If, if the story of their, their role is accurate, he somehow made a great calculated guess that they wouldn't come in and stop him because if they had, he'd be the first person you and I have ever heard of stopped in the act of trying to kill himself.
- [80:38]
Mark Halperin
Never heard of reminding me that he did have a failed suicide attempt the month before.
- [80:44]
Megyn Kelly
Allegedly.
- [80:45]
Mark Halperin
Was he. Did they walk. Allegedly. Did they walk in on him during that attempt? Steve, do you remember that? Or was it just like he tried and they knew? We don't know. Okay.
- [80:54]
Megyn Kelly
I don't believe, with respect to Steve, I don't believe that was documented.
- [80:59]
Mark Halperin
Cash Patel and Dan Bongino either sit down for a long interview with yours truly or someone else, or have a presser. Have a presser and just answer all these questions.
- [81:08]
Megyn Kelly
Mark, if there's nothing, let it, let it all hang out. But we know what the answer is.
- [81:13]
Mark Halperin
They don't want them not to. Yeah, well. And I think President Trump made clear he's totally on board with this strategy, which means he likely directed it. And the question remains why I, I'm.
- [81:23]
Megyn Kelly
Offended by this segment, Megan. Just kidding.
- [81:27]
Mark Halperin
That we've continued talking about it after President Trump said not to.
- [81:31]
Megyn Kelly
Warned us. Extolled. Urged. Yeah. No, I mean, if they can't have a press conference or do a long interview with documentation, they need to take it up with Charlie and Tucker and you.
- [81:46]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. And that's the Thing. It's like, most of us don't actually just follow orders. Most of us have our own independent judgment and editorial sensibility, and this is one of those things.
- [81:57]
Megyn Kelly
I'll be curious to see the next White House reporter who asks in front of the President about Jeffrey Epstein. Let's see when the next happens.
- [82:05]
Mark Halperin
Same. I mean, it's funny because I was just looking at some of the people on my YouTube feed will say, oh, she never responds. But I actually do look at the comments. But I never do respond to the YouTube comments because I never, like, surf the net under my real email because it'll. Sometimes it shows your email, and then people have your email, and I'm like, well, I don't. I don't want that. But anyway, I do listen to your comments. I read your comments, everybody, on YouTube and elsewhere. And, you know, I. I see what people are thinking. It's actually a very good tool to see generally how people are feeling about a story. And for the first time yesterday, I started to see more like, move on, Move on. Okay. Those are true Trump loyalists, because there's just still so many, so many questions.
- [82:48]
Megyn Kelly
But also. But also, as Charlie said, not everybody is interested in this story about this one guy. You know, it's just not everybody's cup of tea. I go back to as a journalist, it's super interesting. And as a human being and a father, the victims are entitled to as much justice as they can be given.
- [83:08]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. And for me, I'm in a weird spot because this has never really been my story. You know, unlike Dan and Cash, I actually haven't been out there for years, like, pounding the Epstein thing. I've reported on it when it's been news. I've had certain newsmakers on to talk about it, but, like, it's never been my real thing, so. But now I'm in this weird position of saying, like, hey, it's a thing. When they're like, no, it's not a thing. I'm like, well, what do you mean? It is a thing? Anyway, okay, let's move on. I'm gonna take a break. We're gonna come back, and there's a. I. I have got to talk to you. I'm going to warn you, Mark Halpern, you didn't know this is coming. I am going to talk to you about a former colleague of yours at ABC News who I believe is the vainest man in television. And I'm going to show you my evidence on why. Stand by for that.
- [83:59]
Megyn Kelly
I think I know who it is.
- [84:00]
Mark Halperin
Well, we'll find out. I won't say it. When we come back. I'm just, I'm going to ask you who your prediction is and then I'll show you my evidence. Let me tell you about something that did not get a lot of news coverage. A major insurance provider, Aflac confirmed that they were part of a massive data breach which may have exposed personal information. You could have seen it on Ground News, the platform that cuts through the noise and sees what's being reported and more importantly, what isn't. See Ground News shows whether you are reading original reporting or just a repackaged press release. That kind of transparency makes all the difference. And you can scan the QR code on screen or go to groundnews.com megan to follow the story for yourself. Ground News shows how Fox called it a cyber attack on a major insurer while CBS News cushions the blow using words like may have had data stolen to downplay it and many of the usual privacy watchdogs totally silent. Ground News is independent, it's subscriber funded and one of the few tools out there that actually puts you in control of what you see. Go to groundnews.com Megan to get 40% off the Unlimited Access Vantage plan. That's groundnews.com Megan if you are a homeowner, listen to this. In today's AI and cyber world, scammers can steal home titles and your equity is the target. Here's how it works. Criminals can forge your signature on one document, use a fake notary stamp, pay a small fee with your county and just like that, your home title has been transferred out of your name. Then they can take out loans using your equity or even sell your property. So when's the last time you checked in your home title? If your answer is never, you can check out Home Title Lock to see if you're already a victim. Use my promo code megan@hometitlelock.com and you will get a free title history report and a free trial of their million dollar triple lock protection. That's 247 monitoring of your title, urgent alerts to any changes and if fraud does happen they will spend up to $1 million to fix it. Don't be a victim. Protect your equity today. Go to hometitlelock.com and use promo code Megan. That's hometitlelock.com, promo code Megan. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today, you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura. I'm back next to Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.
- [86:46]
Megyn Kelly
Go to SiriusXM.com MKM show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free. Offer details apply.
- [87:04]
Mark Halperin
Okay, during the break, my team and I had in depth discussions on what we're about to show you. And we all have very strong feelings on this ne next little bit. So this segment is about vanity in media. Mark Alperin, and you worked for many years at ABC News as one of the top honchos over there. Who do you think I am going to say is the most vain man at ABC News?
- [87:31]
Megyn Kelly
All right, Remember Johnny Carson and Carnac.
- [87:34]
Mark Halperin
You've got the hand up to the head, the card. He's written it down. Yes, DM he's got the proper initials, just like Debbie Murphy. Canadian Debbie. But it's not her. She works for me. It is David Muir. Okay? We covered him a couple of months ago at another tragedy and he was caught on camera wearing his fake little fireman's jacket. This is him reporting. We're showing the video and he made the mistake of turning to gesture to the scene behind him. And you can see he's got, like, the clothes pins on the back of his fake little fireman's jacket. He's not a fireman. Trying to make his waist look skinny. Mark, what man makes his waist look skinny on television or elsewhere? That's strange.
- [88:27]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, unless you're gay. I need to recuse myself because I'm currently wearing safety pins to cinch some people like the cut of my jib. I can't turn. If I did, you'd see I'm just lousy with safety pins in the back.
- [88:41]
Mark Halperin
There's nothing wrong with being a gay man. None whatsoever. David Muir. I don't know what. He's not married, he's not out. I'm not sure what's going on there, but his vanity runs not out.
- [88:51]
Megyn Kelly
I thought he was out.
- [88:52]
Mark Halperin
I don't know. He just gave A long interview that we read and laughed at in People magazine where he was dancing around it. But he doesn't like his dancing around like a partner or whatever. But he, no, he's not out. He's not out. It's just suspicion. I don't think so. We've, we've, we've done some sleuthing. But in any event, gay or not gay, if you're an on camera man, you need to be a man. You need to be a manly man. You need to be in control and you need to not be worried about your waist circumference or how tight you look around the middle when you're reporting from natural disasters. So I would submit to the jury, while we do not have proof positive Mark Halperin, we have circumstantial evidence that he's at it again, this time down in Texas reporting on the terrible flooding in Kerr county outside of Dallas. He has, for the look at this for the past two nights, two nights in a row, is wearing his teeny tiny black T shirt, super high cut on the biceps so you can see his muscles and the teeny tiny waist down below. And I will tell you something. We look, this is when you zoom out a little bit, you can see the shirt has a little flare below the middle. That's not how T shirts work, men's T shirts, T shirts do not cut in in the middle and then flare down below. And we went and pulled the video of him doing his walk and talk because we really care about this. And his T shirt looks normal. Look, it looks like a normal T shirt. Mark Halperin, where he's in the field, there's obviously no cinchers. He's tucked it in in the back because I think he wants to show off his fanny. And he's walking, he's manly man in the field. But then you get him on camera, it's got the normal drape to it. You get him on camera for the nightly broadcast and in goes the waist where it's smaller than Megyn Kelly's waist. But in my defense, I've had three children, he hasn't. And he wants the world to know he's six. Super, super tiny in the waist, but super muscly in the, in the arms. And the reason this matters is because vanity is amok in TV news in general and amongst our evening news anchors. It already brought down Brian Williams, his need to embellish his life, his reporting himself. And I'm, I would submit to you that this is like that in a Different form.
- [91:20]
Megyn Kelly
Well, two things. One, I can clear up the T shirt thing. He wears a. I've been shopping with him. He wears a medium, but it's a ladies medium, so that explains why it's so tight. I have a great story to tell you, which is how I knew what the answer was. But I, I can't tell you on the. Here on the program. But next I see, I will tell you another story.
- [91:39]
Mark Halperin
Oh, that's so unfair to our viewers.
- [91:41]
Megyn Kelly
I know. It's just I'm not in a position to. To say it for white consumption. But let me ask you this, let.
- [91:46]
Mark Halperin
Me ask you this about your story without getting into the details.
- [91:48]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [91:50]
Mark Halperin
Do you feel it in a heartfelt personal way that he's the Venus person at ABC News?
- [91:55]
Megyn Kelly
I feel this story illustrates the fact that if there's another contender for that award, they're distant second.
- [92:02]
Mark Halperin
Oh, at abc. If there is. If there is, they are a distant second.
- [92:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Yeah. But maybe not just at abc. Maybe in all of Manhattan. He also. I used to go to the same gym as he did, too. So I've seen him in action.
- [92:18]
Mark Halperin
So you go to the gym, but when I watch your show, you do not seem to feel the need to show me the products of your gym visits. I do not see.
- [92:26]
Megyn Kelly
I just don't turn. I just don't turn sideways to show you. And I said I used to go to his gym. I don't still go to his gym. Okay, I still go to the gym. But Steve has me working very hard, so I can't spend three and a half hours at the gym.
- [92:42]
Mark Halperin
This is how Steve shows up at work, too. And I constantly tell him, steve, no one can see you. You're not on kid. No, just kidding. But I have worked with a lot. Steve is objecting. I've worked with a lot of men in television. I worked for years next to Bill Hemmer. I worked for years next to Bret Baer. And of course they care about how they look on camera. And there's an attention to looking neat and making sure the hair's not, like, sticking out. But I have never seen this level of vanity amongst the men that I have had the pleasure of co anchoring with or working next to. And that includes, I know some, I'm not going to say who, but like, they do Botox. There's somebody at Fox I knew who got a surgery, a man that. I don't judge it, honestly, being on camera, it does. You know, you have to maintain things. But cinching the waist for a Super skin, skinny girl. Like, svelte figure is weird, and it's a bridge too far. This is where I draw the line. Mark Halperin.
- [93:40]
Megyn Kelly
Well, two things. One is, you know the song from the producers. If you got it, flaunt it. So I think, you know, there's a certain element. He doesn't want to waste what God has given him and what. What peloton has buffed. Steve the other day called me and said he. He had 200 clothes pins and wanted to know what he bought on Amazon and wanted to know if I wanted 100 of them. So you make of that what you will, but some of us are cinching. We're just not dumb enough to turn sideways on camera.
- [94:08]
Mark Halperin
Steve's very upset. He's getting thrown under the bus and has no microphone. This carried wrong.
- [94:13]
Megyn Kelly
Well, he should make his Amazon transactions private.
- [94:17]
Mark Halperin
Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something else. Okay? Here's further evidence. Here's some context and some evidence. We decided to take a look at the other anchors. This is national tragedy. You know, I mean, I shouldn't have to point out you've got children who are dead. Like, seriously, who shows up thinking about the size of their waist and whether they look buff in the evening news shot? It's very strange behavior. So we took a look over at cnn. They've got Pamela Brown down there on site. Let's see how she's dressed. Yeah, like a. Like a news anchor in the field reporting on a tragedy.
- [94:50]
Megyn Kelly
Like you. Dressed like you, Jess. If you were late to pick your kids up at school and you had to rush to make pick.
- [94:55]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, truly, she's not doing glam. And by the way, we all know that when we go on site to report when people have died, glam is not a thing you don't do. You don't do glam. If anything, you play it down. Everybody knows that. Pam Brown, totally appropriate. Now, who's the next one? Before we get to NBC, I think we have one other. We have Maurice Dubois over at cbs. Now looks totally normal.
- [95:18]
Megyn Kelly
He's got CBS network.
- [95:22]
Mark Halperin
I think he's networked now. Yeah, yeah. Evening News now, who can keep track? I mean, nobody pays attention to this stuff anymore.
- [95:28]
Megyn Kelly
At this point, you and I are the. At this point, you and I are the only two people who haven't anchored CBS Evening News. Everybody else has had their show.
- [95:35]
Mark Halperin
Steve has done it. Steve also did it.
- [95:36]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, Steve's done it.
- [95:38]
Mark Halperin
He's wearing a button down.
- [95:40]
Megyn Kelly
Allison's done it. Allison's done it. Everybody but us.
- [95:42]
Mark Halperin
Allison, our booker, she's being considered. He's wearing a button down shirt, like a man's shirt that you'd wear, like with a suit that's appropriate. No tie in the field. Totally get it. That's what you should.
- [95:52]
Megyn Kelly
And it's the right, it's the right size. If I worked at Nordstrom's, that's the size I give him.
- [95:57]
Mark Halperin
That's right. And no cinching. I'm not looking at his teeny, tiny waist. I'm not like, oh, Maurice lost weight. Look at him. Or look at his big muscles. Not that either. Then we meander over to NBC News, and this is interesting.
- [96:10]
Megyn Kelly
Is this Tommy?
- [96:12]
Mark Halperin
Tommy Amas Lamas. Tommy Lamas, yeah. He looks totally appropriate. He has. Same as Maurice. He's got like a black men's shirt on with a button down. His collar is buttoned appropriately. We're not looking at chest at all. He's not showing off muscles. And if he was.
- [96:29]
Megyn Kelly
Tell you something, if he was wearing makeup, he sweated through it too.
- [96:33]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, no, he actually could use a little, like pancake makeup tonight. But, but he's a common for David Muir because even though Muir is crushing NBC right now, just because people know NBC is bad, that they're evil in their hearts. This guy Tom Lamas took over for Lester and he's younger and he's likable and he's actually doing well. And he has like tripled his. The increases for the past two weeks he's been on.
- [97:03]
Megyn Kelly
Are his ratings higher than Lester's?
- [97:06]
Mark Halperin
Yes. Yeah, he's going up above Lester and he's improving the NBC demo number, which is the number they really care, but they want you to look at like, oh, we have 7 million a night. We have 7 million. All anybody cares about is the key demo. And in the key demo, he's making inroads against David Muir, who is like, tighter, tighter. I see this young man. He's coming for me. So I'm pulling my, my stretchy pants right now. Super tight. Mark Alford.
- [97:30]
Megyn Kelly
It's, it's, it's, it's the, it's the clothespin girdle combo that gets you where I can put my, my, my fans around the waist like Bart Simpson.
- [97:40]
Mark Halperin
Like, that's right.
- [97:41]
Megyn Kelly
Homer home around Bart's neck, right around David's waist. And you got to be able to do it and not touch him to circle.
- [97:47]
Mark Halperin
He's five demo points away from calling in a Kardashian for a corset. That's where this Is going just. You heard it here first.
- [97:56]
Megyn Kelly
Heiter. Cinch runs amok. Forget. Forget rewriting page two. I just need to tighten the cinch.
- [98:03]
Mark Halperin
I have to.
- [98:05]
Megyn Kelly
I didn't even know we were doing this segment.
- [98:07]
Mark Halperin
I know. I'm. I surprised you. Wait, how much time do I have? Steve. Steve's all. He's.
- [98:12]
Megyn Kelly
Steve's Flummox canceling. Is canceling his Amazon orders.
- [98:16]
Mark Halperin
Okay. Yeah, exactly. And also your. Your Venmos. Did you know that your Venmos are public?
- [98:23]
Megyn Kelly
I know other people's Venmos are public. I know. When I signed up for Venmo, I toggled the box to not let everybody know what I'm. What I'm paying for. Lawn mowing or licorice.
- [98:32]
Mark Halperin
It's very smart. I don't use Venmo. I have Abigail Finan who does some Venmoing for me and some other service she uses. And. And. But I didn't know that. And I think a lot of people get burned by the fact that Venmo is public. Even.
- [98:45]
Megyn Kelly
Well, the. The national security. The former national Security advisor had that problem. What's his name, the guy who was fired?
- [98:55]
Mark Halperin
Waltz.
- [98:56]
Megyn Kelly
Waltz. Waltz had public Venmo, and he had a bunch of transactions with reporters.
- [99:01]
Mark Halperin
Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, that's humiliating. I don't remember that. I remember the signal gate, but I didn't remember the Venmo. Last but not least, because I really want to get to this other story, but I don't think we have time. Right. We don't have time for opera, do we? I'm dying. My audience is. I'm trying to get to opera. Can we. Can you say five minutes late? Mark Halperin.
- [99:21]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I think.
- [99:24]
Mark Halperin
Okay, I'm gonna get to that in a minute, but I have to. I'm gonna start with this. How about we reference at the top of the show the fact that the TSA is finally saying that we do not have to wear our shoes anymore on board airplanes.
- [99:39]
Megyn Kelly
You mean to go through tsa?
- [99:41]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That we don't have to. We don't have to take them off.
- [99:43]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I hate to take them off.
- [99:45]
Mark Halperin
To go through tsa.
- [99:46]
Megyn Kelly
I hate to sound like Kamala Harris, but I've got pre check, so. I haven't taken off my shoes in a while. You know, the whole shoe thing was an outgrowth of the shoe bomber, whose name was, like, Richard Reeve, something. Richard Reeves?
- [99:57]
Mark Halperin
Reed.
- [99:58]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Any. Anyway, like, it was, like. It seemed to me a huge overreaction. Like, one guy put it in his shoe. And so for then on, no liquids and no shoes. Like, I don't know, I guess, I guess I'm proud to live in a country where we can figure out how to check the shoes while they're on your feet as opposed to going through.
- [100:20]
Mark Halperin
I was talking to Paul Murray about this on Sky News. Why not the belt? Why does the belt have to come off? What can you hide in the belt?
- [100:27]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I don't know. I'm for, I'm for safety, but I'm also for competence.
- [100:32]
Mark Halperin
But these are lies. These are lies. We were going through tsa. My son had a five ounce toothpaste. Not four, five. Stole it. They took it.
- [100:41]
Megyn Kelly
Confiscated.
- [100:42]
Mark Halperin
Confiscated before. I'm like, he's literally 11. You think my 11 year old managed to get a bomb in his 5 ounce toothpaste which would have gotten through, had 4 ounces.
- [100:50]
Megyn Kelly
What flavor was it?
- [100:51]
Mark Halperin
It was like the little like the travel flavor of like the kid, the kids. Kids toothpaste.
- [100:56]
Megyn Kelly
You know, it's got like, like bubble gum.
- [100:58]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. Like some sort of sugary addition to it, which kind of defeats the purpose.
- [101:02]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Again, the country's not that advanced to know that bombs in four, impossible bombs in five, high security risk.
- [101:11]
Mark Halperin
And not only that, you can bring multiple fours. So you could do 4 ounces of shampoo, 4 ounces of conditioner, 4 ounces of face wash, 4 ounces of toner, 4 ounces of lotion, face cream, whatever that. So if you're a bomber, why can. How can you make a bomb out of a 5 ounce toothpaste tube, but not out of the multiple 4 ounces that Megan Kelly has in her Ziploc bag, huh?
- [101:32]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Yeah. I mean the irrationality of the system is. Undermines our confidence. But I'm glad no one's going to be taking their shoes off anymore. But I haven't taken my shoes off in a while.
- [101:42]
Mark Halperin
Right. Because you know what happens, Mark Halpern is you, you, you then have to put your little sweater in a bin that somebody's disgusting shoes were just in that were walking all over the streets of New York. Or you've got to put your handbag that you're about to put over your shoulder in that same bin that's got somebody's shoe filth all over it. This is. It was unsanitary.
- [102:03]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, but I'm being asked all the time to sit on couches that dogs have sat on too.
- [102:08]
Mark Halperin
Well, look, we all know that the TSA security system, while technically for our safety, is really about giving TSA agents the opportunity to exercise their little modicum of power in a disproportionately large way. They get drunk on their own power, and then they abuse us by taking our toothpaste or our Johnson Johnson's baby shampoo. One of my kids had, like, a small acne medicine. Oh, we're going to blow up the plane with the acne. It's like a teenager. What do you think we have it for? And they don't exercise discretion. It's just. Nope, we're taking it. Especially if it's a bottle of liquor. I'm just saying order must be restored. And I believe Sean Duffy is going to do it.
- [102:50]
Megyn Kelly
He's. He's been pretty good. Sean Duffy is bringing humanity to air travel.
- [102:59]
Mark Halperin
Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.