Bombshell NEW Polygraph and Suspect Claims - Part 2 of Megyn Kelly Investigates Nancy Guthrie's Disappearance | Ep. 1275

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show – Episode 1275

Title: Bombshell NEW Polygraph and Suspect Claims – Part 2 of Megyn Kelly Investigates Nancy Guthrie’s Disappearance
Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Megyn Kelly (SiriusXM, channel 111)
Key Guests: Chad Ayers (Former SWAT Team Leader), Jonathan Gilliam (Former Navy SEAL & FBI Special Agent), additional contributors referenced: Brian Enten (NewsNation), Nancy Grace, Ted Neerhaus (Security Tech Consultant), Darren Rosa (Tattoo Expert)

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Episode Overview

This special investigative episode continues Megyn Kelly’s deep dive into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, 84, in Arizona. Now over five weeks since the abduction, no suspects or vehicles have been identified despite high-profile media attention, surges of law enforcement activity, and newly-emerging theories. This episode focuses on three core developments:

• The role of early video evidence and new clues
• Theories regarding multiple suspects and the use of technology
• Explosive revelation: All family members passed polygraph tests "with flying colors"
• The state of the law enforcement investigation, public frustration, and prospects for resolution

The conversation remains unsparing, with expert guests dissecting both forensic evidence and institutional failures across law enforcement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Evidence and Suspect Video Footage

• Main Detail: A masked man, caught on home video (Nest Cam) outside the Guthrie house, became the focal point of public and police attention. The video includes footage where he attempts to hide or tamper with the camera, but crucially, enough images were captured to provide valuable clues.
• Analysis: Experts agree the footage is a treasure trove but express deep frustration that the arrest hasn’t followed. They note visible details: gait, attire (distinctive full-sleeve tattoo, possible soul patch), and potential clues to identity.
  • Quote: “All I can think looking at these is, oh my God. This poor 84-year-old woman saw this man in her bedroom. ... They hit paydirt ... it’s a treasure trove.” – Megyn Kelly, [04:37]
• Demo: The show demonstrates that removing a Nest Cam is easy and doesn’t stop recording (“there’s not an on/off switch, guys”), raising questions about missing footage.

2. Law Enforcement Response: Critique and Internal Dysfunction

• Concerns Raised:
  • Leadership failures and possible ego-driven decisions by the Pima County Sheriff (e.g., not cooperating with FBI, refusing help from Cajun Navy, Equisearch).
  • Allegations of disorganization, poor evidence cataloging, and inexperienced investigators.
  • Shocking statistic: “85 out of 86 deputies have a no confidence vote in the sheriff.” – Chad Ayers, [14:21]
• Public Impact: The sheriff’s erratic messaging (initially claiming the public isn’t at risk; later the opposite) has sown doubt. Experts worry poor cataloging and hasty scene release likely damaged the investigation.
  • Quote: “You need somebody to help him out. You need somebody another pair of eyes.” – Megyn Kelly, [38:25]

3. Ransom Notes & Scams

• Multiple Demands: Ransom notes demanded $6 million in bitcoin. A second scammer offered a suspect's identity for bitcoin.
  • Despite initial seriousness, no arrests have been made in either case.
  • Likely international scam groups (possible West Africa origin); law enforcement finds it difficult to trace perpetrators.
  • Quote: “I thought this was some type of international scam group ... that’s trying to scam people out of this. We see it every single day.” – Chad Ayers, [16:55]

4. Tattoo & Possible Gang Affiliation

• Analysis by Darren Rosa (Tattoo Expert): The suspect’s wrist tattoo may indicate gang affiliation, likely a black and grey style prevalent among Mexican gangs or cartels. However, some panelists caution against overinterpretation.
  • Quote: “Black and gray work is a very prevalent style among gangs ... this is most likely the continuation of something that covers this man’s entire arm.” – Darren Rosa, [20:29]

5. Tech Forensics & Challenges

• Next-Generation FBI Tools: The podcast discusses advanced tech such as Next Generation Identification (NGI), including fingerprint, iris, and tattoo recognition.
  • Limitations: Forensics may be hampered by mask coverage and image quality. Not all prisons use iris scanning, so databases are incomplete.
  • Quote: “It’s never as easy as you want it to be. Never.” – Megyn Kelly, [28:22]

6. Theories: Multiple Suspects, Walkie-Talkie, Possible Wi-Fi Jammer

• Possible Accomplice:
  • Evidence appears to show a device in the suspect's right pocket, speculated to be either a walkie-talkie (supporting a two-person crew theory), a police scanner (for monitoring emergency response), a handheld GPS, or burner phone.
    • Walkie-talkie would suggest coordinated crime (abduction over burglary).
  • Counterpoint: Not all guests agree on the “two-man job” assessment; some think the evidence supports a lone perpetrator.
  • Quote: “I’ve always felt like there was a second person involved.” – Chad Ayers, [30:39]
  • Quote: “I see that this individual was caught on camera ... there’s no sign that anybody else was there that time either.” – Jonathan Gilliam, [61:52]
• Wi-Fi Jammer Theory:
  • The idea that a jammer disabled the cameras is questioned. Tech consultant Ted Neerhaus doubts its use, noting the cameras did come back online.
  • Quote: “If they turn that thing on when they pulled up, you'd never have any video” – Ted Neerhaus, [32:42]

7. New Developments: Polygraph Results & Status Update

• Bombshell: All Guthrie family members have "passed polygraphs with flying colors," removing them as suspects ([42:46]).
  • Major update after weeks of speculation involving family.
  • Quote: “Every family member passed polygraphs with flying colors ... that information is huge.” – Megyn Kelly, [43:22]
• FBI Focuses on Additional Dates: Law enforcement is asking for surveillance footage from January 11 and 24, after reports of a suspicious white van and individuals loitering.
• Current Status: According to inside sources (“boots on the ground”): Authorities have “no solid suspects” ([42:28]), despite Sheriff Nanos’ claim he knows the motive.
  • Quote: “They have no solid leads. ... The FBI has no suspects.” – Chad Ayers, [42:46], [45:23]
  • Quote: “It sounds like it is as cold and unsatisfying as many of us have feared.” – Megyn Kelly, [45:31]

8. Neighborhood Impact & Public Perception

• Personal Stories: Neighbors describe a deep shift from presumed safety (“23 years here, never locked my door ... now we do.” – Neighbor Aldean, [55:31]) to anxiety and constant law enforcement presence.
• Analysis: The case has exposed “the illusion of safety” in affluent or quiet communities and the prevalence of doorstep prowlers and break-in attempts ([57:09]).

9. Competing Theories Still on Table

• Was Nancy Guthrie targeted for her connection to Savannah Guthrie (media figure), or was it random?
• Burglary gone wrong? Abduction for ransom? Two-person operation or lone perpetrator?
• Both Ayers and Gilliam advocate for reviewing all evidence anew and rotating investigators for “fresh eyes” to break possible tunnel vision.
  • Quote: “That’s why investigations are often solved by people who inherit the case, not the actual primary investigators.” – Jonathan Gilliam, [52:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “All I can think looking at these is, oh my God. This poor 84-year-old woman saw this man in her bedroom.” – Megyn Kelly, [04:37]
• “85 out of 86 deputies have a no confidence vote in the sheriff.” – Chad Ayers, [14:21]
• “Black and gray work is a very prevalent style among gangs ... if this is all we’re seeing, this is most likely the continuation of something that covers this man’s entire arm.” – Darren Rosa, [20:29]
• “It's never as easy as you want it to be. Never.” – Megyn Kelly, [28:22]
• “I’ve always felt like there was a second person involved.” – Chad Ayers, [30:39]
• “Every family member passed polygraphs with flying colors.” – Chad Ayers, [42:46]
• “It sounds like it is as cold and unsatisfying as many of us have feared.” – Megyn Kelly, [45:31]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:15] – Megyn Kelly recaps the month-long search, suspect video, new FBI restaurant inquiry
• [04:37] – Discussion of initial suspect images, Nest Cam demonstration
• [09:48] – Analysis: experts debate what the video evidence could still reveal
• [14:21] – Guests discuss Pima County Sheriff’s leadership, internal strife in department
• [16:55] – Ransom note scam theories, struggles of tracking international ransom scammers
• [20:29] – Tattoo analysis by Darren Rosa; possible gang/cultural signifiers
• [25:37] – Next-generation FBI identification methods explored
• [30:39] – Debate: was it a two-person crime? Evidence for/against accomplice
• [32:42] – Tech expert discounts Wi-Fi jammer theory, reviews camera timelines
• [42:28] – Update: FBI focus on new date, “no solid leads”; ALL family pass polygraph
• [43:22] – Megyn places significance on polygraph; Sheriff’s secrecy vs. reality check
• [45:31] – Comparison to solved cases; current state is “cold and unsatisfying”
• [61:52] – Contrasting main theories: lone burglar vs. two-man team
• [69:46] – Frustration at sheriff’s repeated refusals of search and civilian help
• [71:04] – Tease for next episode: DNA analysis in absence of leads

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Tone & Style

• The episode is probing, urgent, and skeptical, with recurring frustration at officials’ lack of transparency and apparent stumbles.
• Experts disagree constructively, offering competing, evidence-based theories.
• The conversation is punctuated by direct calls for a reset: “They need to call Jonathan and you and Fitz and Maureen ... we need fresh eyes.” – Megyn Kelly, [52:33]
• The overall atmosphere: a mix of dogged investigative curiosity, concern for the family and public, and palpable impatience for progress.

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Conclusion

This episode lays bare both the tantalizing clues and significant barriers in the Nancy Guthrie case, weaving insight from criminal, technological, and cultural angles. The bombshell polygraph news marks a turning point in public perceptions, but the hard reality—no suspects, no clear leads—dominates. As expert guests urge procedural resets and lay out what good police work should look like, the underlying message is clear: the case’s unsolved status is as much about institutional failings as criminal cunning. Stay tuned for Part 3, which promises a focus on DNA evidence and further avenues for hope.

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Next Up: "Tomorrow on part three of our series, investigators are working to process mixed DNA found at the scene. With no other solid leads, is DNA going to be what ultimately cracks this case?" – Megyn Kelly, [71:04]

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on Sirius, XM channel 111, every weekday at noon east. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. It is now 5 in the search for Nancy Guthrie. No suspect, no vehicle, no motive has been identified in this case. Though the sheriff did say he believes he knows the motive to the local NBC affiliate. So that's something. It has been over a month since images and surveillance video of a masked man in front of Nancy Guthrie's front door were released by authorities. The suspect caught on camera does not seem to be a criminal mastermind, at least that was our viewpoint. He appears to be trying to cover up the nest camera with nearby shrubs. But on the other hand, he's gotten away with his crime for 44 plus days, and that says something, given that they had reportedly some 400 law enforcement officers on this in the very beginning. Today, we will dive into what we know about him. We at least think that it's a male and the potential theory of more than one suspect. You remember Maureen yesterday saying she believes that the perp on that porch had a walkie talkie in his pocket, and if he had a walkie talkie, there was an accomplice, and that's her theory. Brian Enten is reporting that the FBI returned to that Mexican restaurant. It's called El Charo Cafe in Tucson, the one that Nancy Guthrie was sitting with Savannah and Annie Guthrie in for that Today show segment that aired in November of 2025. The FBI reportedly asking if there was anyone suspicious around during filming, if anyone wanted to take photos, if anyone got ang or if they lingered. I mean, that's just good police work, right? Just going back to a place where, you know, Savannah and her mother were in public together and finding out whether there are any leads there. There are also a lot of questions surrounding the potential technology that could solve this case. Right? From those images that we saw on the front door to many other techniques that we're learning about that the FBI has in its arsenal. First, though, we're going to take a look back at some of the early coverage of Nancy's disappearance when we first saw the suspect together. Remember, we were live in the air when this happened, just how little information the authorities made public as the Guthrie family begged for help. And an MK show demonstration surrounding a nest camera at the center of this case. Watch. Everyone is looking for you, mommy. Everywhere. The American TV anchor Savannah Guthrie. Today's show, the NFC Savannah Guthrie.

[A]

We begin this morning with a search

[B]

for Nancy Guthrie, now entering its second week.

[A]

Authorities say there is still no suspect

[B]

or person of interest in the case. Reaction from the highest levels of government.

[C]

We have some things I think that will maybe come out reasonably soon.

[A]

A reported ransom Note.

[B]

The demand, US$6 million in Bitcoin by 5pm tonight.

[C]

I'll read you one line. They say it is in the best interest of everyone to have this complet

[A]

as soon as possible.

[B]

We received your message and we understand and we will pay. It's now day 10 of the search for Nancy Guthrie. Authorities believe she was forcibly removed from her Arizona home. But beyond that, they don't seem to know much else. Yesterday, the Pima county sheriff's department posted on X, quote, investigators have not identified any suspects, persons of interest or vehicles connected to Nancy Guthrie. Great job. And the FBI in a statement given to this show and other media outlets yesterday saying, quote, the FBI is not aware of any continued communication between the Guthrie family and suspected kidnappers, nor have we identified a suspect or person of interest in this case at this time. But the FBI, we've now learned, has been brought in, as I've been reporting, kind of late and then stiff armed by the sheriff. Hi there everybody. And now we have heard again directly from Savannah Guthrie. Her tone was not optimistic. As we enter into another week of

[D]

this nightmare, we are at an hour

[B]

of desperation and we need your help. As we went to break, the FBI released four pictures of a man clearly outside of Nancy Guthrie's front door in a ski mask, in leather gloves, wearing a backpack. And they are terrifying. All I can think looking at these is, oh my God. This poor 84 year old woman saw this man in her bedroom. There's video, you guys look at this, of him approaching the nest cam. He takes his right hand the, the side like that where your pinky knuckle is. And he starts kind of like it looks like he's banging it. He's trying to get the. Not hard though. Then he turns around. Now I can see the back. This is going to be very helpful. They're going to be able to see what brand this is. Is a treasure trove, you guys. It's a treasure trove. I mean, they hit pay dirt. They, they got, they got the gold, you guys. Like they somehow the System did still have this. We can see his gait, Maureen. We can see how he walks, which is also another big tell. Yes. And I notice how people walk. I can. I can tell their footfall as they walk down the hallway. Who's coming? And this is. This is the break I think we've all been waiting for. Here is what the NEST camera looks like, and we're going to show you a demonstration we did. Taking it off the base is easy. You can pull it right off and does not stop the filming. And anybody who knows the NEST camera should know that if you have this little key, it pops right off. It would take nothing for, like an experienced burglar or kidnapper to know, oh, all I need is this little thing. It's off. And you don't even need this. Just wiggle it a little and it came right off. There's not an on off switch, guys. Getting it off is not enough. It should still be rolling and there should still be images of the guy getting it off. What didn't we see? A smashed NEST camera. It's gone. So you tell me whether you think Cash Patel possibly has shots of this guy stealing it, damaging it, or whether the guy was so dumb he took it, eventually put it in that backpack. And possibly they have actual pictures of the inside of the house and what went down that are waiting to be retrieved by the geniuses at Google. The clock is ticking now that they're gonna get him. Somebody knows him.

[A]

Time's not on this guy's hands. Your days are numbered.

[B]

It's just a matter of time before we do a news alert saying he's been caught. I just. I can feel it. There's just. Those pictures are too good. Hmm. It's been too long already. But doesn't mean it's not gonna happen. Joining me now to discuss it all, Chad Ayers, former SWAT team leader, and Jonathan Gilliam, former Navy SEAL and FBI special agent and author of Sheep no More. Let's be honest. America can still be a dangerous place, and you cannot afford to wait for help when you need it. Sure, you could use a firearm, but in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force could have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9% of all altercations do not require lethal force. And that's exactly why so many are turning to Byrna Burna is proudly American hand. Assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, these less lethal self defense launchers are trusted by hundreds of government agencies, law enforcement departments, and private security companies. Over 600,000 Burna pistols have been sold mostly to private citizens who refuse to be victims. Burner launchers fire rock hard kinetic rounds and powerful tear gas and pepper projectiles Capable of stopping a threat from up to 60ft away. No background checks, no waiting periods, and burna can ship straight to your door. Take responsibility, protect your future. Visit byrna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's by r n a.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend. Guys, welcome back. It's sort of chilling to see it as it happened. And those images came in and we totally thought, chad, it was just a matter of days after those images broke that this guy would be under arrest. How wrong we were.

[A]

Yeah. How anything that we've talked about just does not seem to have come to fruition yet. But let's be honest, that's law enforcement. You know, we live in a time where people want answers. We have cell phones. We get answers immediately. And unfortunately, in these types of cases, it lasts longer. It actually takes me back to a case here in the upstate of south Carolina where there was a horrific homicide that went unsolved, like four or five people killed in a motorbike store back in the late 90s. And it took probably close to 20 years until that case was solved. So, you know, I can't imagine the guthrie family, you know, in poor savannah, happened to fly back to new York, you know, and try to get a normal life started back again, get her life going. Still knowing mom is out there, you know, whether she's alive or not, we don't know. But it's just heartbreaking. And that, that video, I mean, it just tears at your heart.

[B]

I still feel like, jonathan, that video will solve this case. I still, I mean, it's. That's only been one month since that video hit. So it's not like that's not an eternity in law enforcement. And I just still feel like maybe in that mountain of tips they received all the thousands, there's something or there's somebody who's still going to come forward and say, I want the million dollars. And I know that guy.

[E]

Right.

[C]

I think some of the biggest things that popped out over that period of time that you compiled all that video was that he was seen before that, prior to that night. And that really has been really not talked about that much. It kind of was, oh, yeah, he was there before and then that was it. But that gives us a lot of understanding about that. The individual was somewhat familiar with the neighborhood, that he was familiar enough with that house that he went back. And so I think there's probably more video information out there than what they've given us. And I'm not sure why they haven't released a little bit more detail about the other times that he might have been there and really talked about that more. As you've shown, this sheriff, from the very beginning, made huge mistakes because it was kind of like the O.J. simpson judge. You know, this guy, you can tell that he, he either wants his own TV show or he's just taking this limelight and running with it. It goes along with the personality that's been reported by him or about him. And I think when you look at the, the, the totality of the statements and especially yesterday with this interview that he gave, and it's this conflicting information that makes once again, no sense. Why would you, if you, why would you be telling people that you know the motivation of this individual when you're also telling them you don't have a suspect? So you know that you don't know the motivation. You have a theory of what the motivation is, but if you don't have the individual, most likely you don't know exactly what the motivation is. But when he makes comments, he makes final or comments with finality, like, we're ruling out the family. Well, you can't rule out the family unless you have identified at least what happened there. And to our knowledge, we don't even know if she was taken or alive or, or dead. So, you know, I think it's been a problem with this sheriff. I, I do realize that there's people working behind the scenes, but again, with the sheriff's department, the way it's been reported is that if he doesn't like somebody, he gets rid of them, despite their experience. So we have to question the experience of the investigators. And I just think that so much time elapsed from, from her missing and the time that the family called to the point where law enforcement actually got involved, within a day and a half, he made a statement, the sheriff, saying that he was standing down the search to give his deputies time to rest for 24 hours. That made no sense to me whatsoever. And then lastly, you know, I've been talking a lot. I was on a show with the guys from the Cajun Navy National. Incredible group of guys. They are people, but the guys that run it, they have access to. I haven't seen assets like this since I was in the FBI. I mean, they have access to. Not a dog, dogs, tons of people. Flir Drones, their experience in finding bodies and water and so on and so forth. And they have offered which I overwatch this long or looked at and reviewed for them this long operations order how they could step in and assist. Never even got anything back from, from law enforcement except for a thank you but no thank you. So there's these things that just don't make any sense at all. And I think it all comes down to ego and what ends up happening in that, you know, cases suffer and like Chad said, you know, you're seeing law enforcement because this is the, I think this more than the incompetency of criminals. This type of stuff happens a lot in law enforcement and derails investigations. Either they're, they're over overworked, understaffed, or they have investigators that have not been trained properly or they have leadership that should never have been promoted into the positions that they're in.

[B]

Go ahead, Chad.

[A]

I read Yesterday, Megan, that 85 out of 86 officers, deputies from this agency have a no confidence in their own sheriff. That's bueno if you have a leader. Well, I keep shed I can't even call him a leader at this point, unfortunately. But if you have someone at the head of this agency that is spewing off facts that are making it seem like they're facts and they're not facts and they've not been proven, we can't do this. I agree. What Maureen was saying earlier too, the fact of why is the PIO not the one that is their job, that's their sole job.

[B]

Why is this PIO the cop for the cops. That's why police departments have them. But he probably wanted to see his face on tv. He was very quick to run to do the rounds. As soon as the Nancy case broke, remember he did all sorts of podcasts. I was like, what is this guy doing? He's doing everybody's show. And then he had the pressers and then he said he seemed to realize he didn't want to share with the FBI, stopped the pressers, went back to just him in front of the cameras, which he's continued now, though less frequently. But he seems to enjoy seeing his face on camera and he's all over the board of the messaging. Here's my question for you, Chad. Here's something I can't understand. I can understand how this is not solved yet and still could be. Why haven't we seen an arrest of the ransom note people, right? Like the first guy wrote the alleged ransom note and said, you have till Thursday and then I think it's 4 million by Thursday, but it's going to be 6 million if you wait until Monday. And I want my money in a bitcoin. And he sent it to Harvey, and he sent it the two locals. And Harvey said all along, law enforcement's taking that very, very seriously. Like, this actually could be the guy. Clearly the family believed it actually could be the guy because they did responsive videos. Then nothing. Then on top of that one, there was another guy who swooped in and said, I can tell you who the perpetrator is. I saw them down in Mexico with Nancy, but I want a bitcoin in order to give up. So that seems like obvious number two and number one, maybe, maybe bullshit as well. Where's the arrests of those people? Truly? Like, one of those could potentially lead you at least, you know, possibly to the kidnapper. So, like, is it so hard? I can see why it's really hard to track down Nancy's abductor, but why is it so hard to track down those two guys?

[A]

Well, I think that Jonathan probably has a little bit more experience on international than I do personally. From the get go, I thought this was some type of international scam group, an organized group that's trying to scam people out of this. We see it every single day, people calling, saying, hey, grandma, I'm in jail. Send me money. Or hey, add some money onto this, you've got a warrant. You miss court, you can pay this fine. So I do know that a lot of times, you know, I was talking to a friend of mine that's with the United States Secret Service, and obviously they work a lot of financial type crimes. And, you know, because I brought this up, why is it taking so long to get to these people asking for the ransom? And the way they were explaining it. And again, I'm. I'd love Jonathan to kind of jump in as well, but sometimes these international groups and their IP addresses, I know we've talked a lot about that, but just tracking them down, they're in some desolate town, you know, in the middle of West Africa somewhere, can be very difficult.

[B]

What do you make of it, Jonathan? I just feel like, why would it be so hard? Especially the second numbskull, you know, is like. And I want a bitcoin to tell you who the kidnapper is. I saw him south of the border with Nancy. They can't. They can't find that guy. There's absolutely no records. Like, there's no tools to figure out who these people are and pierce the veil and the bitcoin veil or some other veil, you know, the email veil, and find out who's claiming to have a connection to this case.

[C]

I mean, they. They could have followed it back as far as they could. And it's just, you know, an Internet cafe in Nigeria. It's a. They're just. There's just nothing going to be there. I mean, even banks, you know, this happens a lot where people will tell somebody, hey, I'm going to buy your car from you, because I see you're selling the car on Facebook market. So you're asking 10,000 for it. Well, I have this cashier's check for 12,000. I'll give you that 12,000 to hold the car. And then you just keep the extra 2000 for doing this for me. And people go fall for that. And then what happens is when they take that cashier's check to the bank, that bank doesn't really exist. And so the money goes into their account. And then when the bank that this person has finds out that that bank isn't real, then that person's in Hawk for $12,000 and lost their car. So they believe that's the way a lot of these cars got over to Iraq and Afghanistan during the war. You saw all these American cars that were stolen that were over there. That's one of the ways that happened.

[B]

So let me pivot then. Okay, I get it. Let me pivot to the next related question. There was a very interesting discussion on Nancy Grace about the tattoo on the wrist of the perpetrator, the guy who we did see on Nancy's porch. And it may have international connections, I don't know, the FBI. Nancy's reporting has enlarged, refined, and brought in a team of analysts to review the tattoo. You can see for the listening audience, we're showing just a tiny bit of the perp's arm. And you can see that clearly this guy's got a tat. And you can see a little bit about it. I can't make out much about it, but you can definitely tell that he's got a tattoo. Well, Nancy had on a guy named Darren Rosa, who's a tattoo artist of the Rising Dragon Tattoos in New York City. Thirty plus years in the tattoo business and this happened just a few days ago. They talked about what this could signal about the subject. Let's listen here.

[E]

Black and gray work is a very prevalent style among gangs. Mexican people who might be in these gangs or cartels. This is even considered hallmarks of people who have moved up in the echelons of a gang. You know, these people are out in the sun. The southern western states get heavy sun exposure, so this style of artistry can withstand the elements. If this is all we're seeing, this is most likely the continuation of something that covers this man's entire arm. Most likely he's got tattoos on his hands. Most likely he's got tattoos on his neck and maybe even something under his eye, because this is what they do.

[B]

Very interesting, Jonathan. And, like, that's from somebody who knows, like, I believe that guy with ease.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it could be. It could be a lot of things. And that's. That's a problem. You know, Megan, with all this evidence, that is speculation. And, you know, Nancy Grace likes to pump things up quite a bit. So it.

[B]

Shots fire.

[C]

Could be. Yeah. Well, I've had my issues with Nancy Grace before, and I was right, by the way. So, you know, when. When you put something on there like that. What I do like about that, however, is that it is a good possibility. And. And this guy knows that when somebody gets them on their wrist and they probably have it on their hand, and it probably goes up their arm, so that. And it takes a while to get those tattoos. So somebody who's doing that could. Could have had that. But again, it's. It's speculation. It's not proof. But. But I like hearing what that guy had to say. So, you know, here's the problem.

[B]

And I mean, if it's real, we're talking about a possible Mexican gang tattoo. And that is one of the things that's been lingering over this case all along. How close she is to the southern border, how sort of professional the kidnapping seemed. You know, got in, got out, got away with it. You know, that's still very much a viable possibility. So easy to cross back over across the border without getting detected. No one's gonna bother you, really, at all. So, you know, it's just one of the many things. If that is a Mexican gang tattoo, it's.

[C]

I don't know how you got that from that wrist. I don't know how he came up with that part of it. But, I mean, there's a lot of people who get. Especially in Arizona, it's like a thing to have a sleeve.

[B]

He says black and gray work is a very prevalent style among gangs. Mexican gangs, they like to get black and gray. That. That's a thing. That's like a style for the. For the gangs. I mean, if you look down at your wrist and you have a black and gray tattoo, you Might be in a gang. Also, if you take ways the wrong way to the airport, Chad can tell

[C]

you this, Jack can tell you this as well, is that. Now this, even that little bit right there, if somebody has had their, has been arrested and they have tattoos, they're going to have their tattoos recorded. So there could be a database that recognizes that portion and somebody just has

[A]

to put that together.

[B]

It's so tiny.

[C]

Yeah, but it doesn't take much.

[B]

So this is the problem like here too. So this is one of the things I wanted to mention to you. I didn't know about this, but apparently there is next. The FBI is using next generation identification technology, NGI technology, and it's got all sorts of really cool things that they will use like advanced fingerprint id, latent and palm prints, and then something called the Iris Service. The Iris service. And I was like, well, that sounds very promising because you can see this guy's irises. You know, he's got the face mask on, but the irises. Yeah, that's, that's inside the eyeball. You can see those pretty clearly. And this is a, an iris image repository within the FBI system. All iris images enrolled in the repository are linked to a 10 print finger fingerprint record. It has an automated iris search and that it's used for identification validation at some correctional facilities. To your point of like what they have at the tattoos, Typically, inmates have an image of their iris scanned upon arrival. Then when they're moved or released, staff scan the inmate's eyes again to help ensure that they're moving or releasing the correct person. That's fascinating. And so there's a question about whether this guy's irises could potentially have been helpful here. Back to your friend Nancy Jonathan. She had on an expert this month who said that yes, this exists, but this would be tough because most of these retinal scans require deeper imaging and we don't know that we have that of this guy. I'll give that one to you, Chad.

[A]

Yeah, obviously, and I don't know enough about this technology. I do know that the ring doorbell is obviously operating off of some type of IR infrared light, you know, to, to capture that image. So I don't know if that could affect, you know, if that IR hitting the light, if you're getting some type of glare, you know, bounce back, that's not truly capturing that iris image. You know, I will go back just kind of briefly to the tattoo thing. I think it is interesting and important to note that I agree that I don't, I don't know many men who go just get wrist tattoos. I would agree that this is probably a full sleeve. So again, we start diving into databases or getting images out there or questions in the community. Hey, who do we know? Do we know workers or anybody that has full sleeve tattoos that also has that soul patch that we've mentioned before that we saw under his lip? You know, it's starting to kind of that, that, that is all part of this investigation, I promise you. Building this thing up piece by piece, nothing kind of gets swept to the side. We've got to use all of the evidence to put the, you know, to paint this picture here.

[B]

What do you make of the possible iris service possibilities, Jonathan? And also there is, for example, the interstate photo system. That's where they have a repository of all photos received with 10 print transactions. That's the electronic submission of an individual's 10 fingerprints. So anybody who's been fingerprinted, they'll have that. Of course, they'll have facial recognition, which I'm sure they've been trying to use on this guy's face, even though it's covered by the ski mask. I mean, is it possible that this stuff takes longer than 30 days and these are still viable possibilities?

[C]

Well, so no, some of this information in these databases and these systems, these applications that they have, they can, like if it's you and I right here and we're playing, they can look at it and say, okay, that's Megyn Kelly, that's Jonathan Gillum, you know, but they're. But when you've got part of your face covered, the majority of your face covered, the system may be able to look at it, but it may not be able to say this is absolutely that person that's like a partial DNA that they get somewhere. They just won't have the ability to match it up. Like Chad was saying, perhaps the IR lighting affects that in some way, shape or form. But if this individual. And that's the other thing, if they've been scanned before, then, like if this individual's been in prison before, then there's a potential that that could have been scammed. But also, Megan, as you know, prisons are government related. And so just because these 10 prisons do it doesn't mean the other 20 do. So you may not have a complete database of everybody's been in jail. So that's a problem.

[B]

It's never as easy as you want it to be. Never. Right, let's keep going because there's a lot of other stuff I want to get to yesterday. Maureen and Fitz were suggesting. Maureen in particular thought that that one item in the suspect's right pants pocket was a walkie talkie. We've had the discussion before, but she's convinced that that was a walkie talkie. Because talk had turned to whether it might be potentially a WI fi jammer. Some of the neighbors were reporting that their WI fi was mysteriously down right around the time that Nancy was taken. It's also come out now, thanks to ABC News, that the cops have retrieved additional images from Nancy's remaining cameras around her home. No moving pictures, but still images. But nothing from the night in question. Law enforcement on her property after the fact. The pool workers prior to. But nothing on the night in question. And so many people said maybe there was a WI fi jammer. But there's a debate about whether that really could be a WI fi jammer that was used that night because a. It didn't work. We saw images of the. Of the suspect at 2:12. Maybe they jammed it at 1:47 when the images first went offline. The cameras were said to first go offline, but by 2:12, they were clearly recording some images again. And others said if he had a WI fi jammer that was strong enough to shut down the neighbor's WI fi. You're talking about this, like, NASA shit. Like, that's next level, you know, criminality there. And this guy with his little vegetation over the ring camera didn't exactly project NASA shit. Okay, so all of this is to get to. Is that more likely a walkie talkie in the pants? And so we talked to them yesterday, Fitz and Maureen, and there was a question raised by Fitz about whether it's not a walkie talkie talkie, but it's a police scanner. That's interesting because you guys well know that these, you know, criminals, wannabe criminals and wannabe cops, you know, often listen to the police scanners for information. And look at this. That's. That's what a police scanner looks like. Right here on the left. And now I'll show you what the walkie talkie looks like. A walkie talkie. It's almost identical. I mean, like, we have no idea. We really can't assume this is a walkie talkie. And thus there's an accomplice. They look almost identical, guys. So anybody have any thoughts on what that likely was inside this suspect's pocket?

[A]

Well, let's go. Let's start with the walkie talkie aspect. I've said from day one, there's no way. I don't want to say no way. It would be very difficult for this to be a single person operation, Nancy. And I don't mean this in a derogatory way. She was 84, but she wasn't a very tiny and petite lady. So to, to, you know, have to move someone, whether she moved on her own, you know, we, she couldn't walk a far distance more than what they say, 50ft or 50 yards on her own without having to sit down. So I've always, I've always felt like there was a second person involved. So the, the, if these people do have a little bit. They're still criminals. Criminals screw up. But if they had some type of training or professionalism behind them, they left their cell phones. All right, and they operated off of two way radios. That's a possibility. If it is a scanner, which. Listen, I know that a lot of criminals use scanners. We had a bank robbery group here in the upstate in the 80s that that's what they were doing. They were using scanners and luring law enforcement, you know, to other areas of town. And once they heard that they were on scene there, they'd go rob these banks. So, you know, there's a lot of benefit to scanners. What would be interesting is at that time of night, how many 911 calls or how many calls for service or traffic stops did the Pima County Sheriff's office respond to? Was there radio traffic that could have been picked up on that ring doorbell during that time? Obviously ring doorbells also are operating. You know, you're hearing audio outside as well. So is that something that they could have, you know, downloaded and got from Google too, is, you know, you're hearing that scanner go off. But I'm leaning more honestly towards the two way radios and they're communicating to each other.

[B]

Yeah. Then we are talking about an accomplice. Let me show you the sound bite. The two. Which two of them? To which I'm referring here, Jonathan. This is Ted Neerhaus, a security tech consultant, speaking to NBC News about whether this was a WI fi jammer. Neerhaus says he's skeptical a WI fi jammer was used in Nancy's abduction.

[A]

If they turn that thing on when they pulled up, you'd never have any video on any camera. So that's why I don't think anything was jammed.

[B]

Now that's interesting because you know, what they said when they released the timeline in this case, Jonathan, was that at 1:47am the cameras were brought offline by something they, they were the cameras were at 1:47 somehow brought offline, and then at 2:12 they said image detected. That's how Sheriff Nanos described it. And so, and he said it could have been an animal, you know, and it wasn't until we were all together that one day in the middle of February that Kash Patel released actual images of the bad guy that somehow had been recorded, even though they weren't supposed to be recording on the Nest cam found, you know, deep within the Google service. Google owns Nest. So it's never really made perfect sense how the guy seems to have knocked comms offline at 147 only for them to still be working at 2:12.

[C]

Well, and these are questions that I've had along the way. Like when these cameras set for a while and there's no activity, does the camera then shut down to save battery life? Because most of these are on battery, they're not hardwired to the house. So that could have been the case. So you know that you have animals or certain things. That night it was, I looked at the, the moon cycle. It was a full moon that night. So the camera could have been recording different things that alerted it and then it just shut down because nothing had alerted it for a while. And then when somebody walked by or approached, like he could have walked by that house before and alerted that camera and then it shut down and then he comes in there. So yeah, I don't, I don't know exactly what the answer is to that, Megan, but, but I think the scanner part of it, you know, in all my career I have not seen an individual that's trying to break in somewhere. And I've done some cases where we, we worked with some very. They weren't high profile, but the burglaries that they were committing were very high profile and they never used a scanner, they didn't use radios in most of those cases. They were just very smart about what they did. They do sometimes use scanners. I've seen scanners used more than I've seen radios used by police scanner, you mean? Yes. And so I'm kind of leaning towards possibly a scanner or you know, some. I was looking up non smart cell phones if they're still readily available and what a burner phone looks like. It could have had a phone but had it turned off. The other thing could have been is a Garmin gps if the guy's not familiar with that area. That's about the size of a Garmin gps, handheld GPS that you would use when you go hiking and so, but

[B]

doesn't, you're, you're so right. Because I feel like, doesn't a police scanner make perfect sense? If you're going to, into a stranger's home and you, your plan is to abduct her or whatever his plan was as he was entering, breaking and entering, you would want to know what the hell the police were like. You'd hear it. You're waiting to hear somebody call 911 and hear dispatch sends somebody to the home. Right. I mean that's, that's why you would be carrying the scanner.

[C]

But the size of that pocket, and I'll tell you this, if you look at that picture, the size of the pocket in that jacket, and I'm kind of familiar with that type of jacket, it's not a super deep pocket. So whatever is sticking out of there does not have a big antenna. You look at the scanner on the left, those typically scanners have a little bit bigger of an antenna on it. The, the personal handheld radios that you would also buy at Walmart have a, an antenna that looks like that. And so do the Garmin GPSs. They, they both have a very small antenna. Typically the scanners, the police scanners have a larger antenna so they can reach out further. So that's the only reason why I'm moving away from a potential scanner to a handheld radio, which then would give credence that there's probably more than one person or this guy could just be some kind of fruitcake that wants to gear up like a cop and have a radio and a gun and go rob people. So that happens a lot as well. You know, a lot of criminals, for whatever reason, they like to mimic police officers and carry gear and radios while they go and do things. But I don't know any of this. Here's the most important thing about this. All of this is possible and, but it all leads into certain directions. You know, if there, if, if he has a radio, then there's a potential he had somebody else. If, if there's somebody else, there's a potential that, that they were canvassing areas to rob or they were focused on her. So you have to look at all these theories and then you put those, those different possibilities on a board and then you see where the evidence fills in. I still think that if she was accidentally killed or killed in lieu of a burglary, or if she was abducted and they didn't know what to do with her, her body is somewhere within two hours of that house. And I just don't see the outer Perimeter sheriffs involved. I haven't heard anything about any other sheriffs or police departments involved in their areas. Looking at canvassing areas that where she could have been dumped and not having the ability to bring other people in and search because the sheriff is a problem. There needs to be a broader search other than just five miles from our house.

[B]

Yeah. Oh. It's one thing, Chad, to be a control freak if you're amazing at your job in solving crime. It's quite another to have that quality when you're a bumbler who has a sketchy past when it comes to your law enforcement days and and who, as you point out, doesn't have the confidence of any of the people working underneath you. It's not so great to have a control freak in that setting. You need somebody to help him out. You need somebody another pair of eyes. And it looks like all I've heard, all I've heard is frustration from the FBI at the stiff arm that this guy's been getting them. Let's talk about what's really happening right now. New data shows that financial stress is at an all time high for some. Many Americans are at a breaking point. Debt maxed out. No extra money, no room to breathe. And some people are running out of options. Listen, if debt has been weighing on you, you're not alone. And when it comes to debt, waiting usually makes it worse. Interest piles up. Minimum payments keep you stuck. But you do not need another loan or bankruptcy. You need a strategy, my friends. That is why I want to tell you about Done with debt. They build a smart personalized plan around you. They know what it takes to get you the biggest reductions possible. Whether you owe 10,000 bucks or much, much more. Done with debt has one clear goal. Lower what you owe so you keep more of your paycheck every month. Start with a free consultation. It takes just minutes. Share your situation and find out what's possible. You don't have to stay stuck. Go to donewithdebt.com that's donewithdebt.com Spring is a glorious time of year, but it also wreaks havoc on allergies. But let me tell you about Beekeeper's Naturals. Their Propolis nasal spray Max is a non toxic nasal spray. It can be used daily during allergy season to flush out irritants and soothe sinus irritation. Paired with their Propolis immune support throat spray. Get protected with antioxidants that defend against germs on the spot. The spray provides soothing relief with slippery elm and menthol, calming inflammation without a single nasty additive. Today, Beekeepers Naturals is giving you an all exclusive offer. Go to beekeepersnaturals.com Megan or enter code Megan to get 20 off your order. That's beekeepersnaturals.com megan or just enter the code Megan when you check out. B E E K e e p E-R-S naturals.com Megan or enter the code Megan when you check out. These products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Walmart, Amazon, CVS and Walgreens. Hey, everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius xm. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel. And it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinski, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111 and on the SiriusXM app. I do want to switch the discussion though, in the time we have. Brian Enten is reporting that you guys may recall that we had heard law enforcement had been asking the locals for video, of course, of the night Nancy went missing, but also of January 11th, 11th. And there was a report of a white van seen in the neighborhood on that date and possibly of a guy, at least one neighbor described, a guy who didn't, he didn't look like he fit in the neighborhood walking on that date. So they were asking for that, too. Well, Brian's now reporting that according to one of Nancy's neighbors, they're also FBI are especially interested in January 24th, which is eight days before Nancy went missing. The Saturday before. They're looking for video from both dates. So that's also interesting. January 24th, I mean, all of this tells you what, Chad, about the state of the investigation.

[A]

Well, as of about two hours ago, Megan, I can report from a very, very reliable source that is boots on the ground there, that the FBI and the Pima County Sheriff's Office have no leads, no solid suspects.

[B]

What?

[A]

And this is from someone. Boots on the ground that I trust. All right. They have no solid leads. I can also report that it has been confirmed this morning, and I'm sure we all assume this, that every family member passed polygraphs with flying colors. So what does this other date have in mind? Probably tells me that there was just some images or some type of electronic Evidence that's kind of pushing them to try to dive into that date a little bit more. But that is a conversation huge, though.

[B]

That information is huge. So then that means. I mean, I think. I don't. I know some people don't believe in the polygraphs. I do. But if that's true, then we can move on from the brother in law and the sister. And it kind of sheds a little more light on the sheriff's statement to NBC that he's had a theory about this case from the beginning and he hasn't. Nothing has moved him off his theory and that he does believe he knows the motivation for the crime. And in the interim between that first day and now where he says his theory hasn't changed, he did say that the family had been ruled out. He then kind of begged off of it because, of course, they don't have anybody in custody. So I'm not sure you can say anybody's been totally ruled out, but that's very interesting. Wait, I want to play for you the sheriff's comment to NBC News just days ago on how he's saying, contrary to what you're saying, that he thinks he knows the motive, which would be a lead. But you tell me, here he is. There is something that's come out in the investigation that gives you a sense of motive here and why this person did this. This.

[A]

You know, I think it's come out from the.

[E]

From day one. I think from day one, we had some strong beliefs about what happened, and those beliefs haven't diminished.

[D]

Do you believe it was a burglary gone wrong?

[E]

I'm not going to get into those theories. We have our beliefs.

[A]

Everybody else has theirs.

[B]

Nano says he's intentionally withholding their theory and other details in the case, citing the integrity of the investigation. But you're saying, Chad, no leads.

[A]

You can have a theory. Let me, Let me correct the way he worded it. No suspects.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You can have leads without suspects, obviously, and that's what they're doing. That's why they keep going back to these residences and these houses and following up with neighbors over and over again. I agree they're probably on to some type of theory, but we still don't have a suspect.

[B]

This is like, amazing. But if that's true, are you revising what you were told, from no leads to no suspects?

[A]

The way he worded it, is they. There are no. The FBI has no suspects.

[B]

Well, I mean, I guess I'm not shocked to hear that, but, like, that doesn't bode well in Terms of, you know, like, if you look back at the Brian Kohlberger case, they did. It took 48 days or something like that to nab him, but they had a suspect for, you know, a good chunk of that last portion there. Jonathan. It wasn't. It wasn't bubkus like, they'd been working leads. They had found the. The knife sheath, they had found. They knew the car that the suspect had been driving. They were going through meticulously all the records of the white Hyundai Elantras of certain years. It sounds like none of that's happening here. It sounds like, if Chad's right, it sounds like there isn't some special sauce of hot leads they've been pursuing that they're not just sharing with the public, and we're days away from getting an arrest. It sounds like it is as cold and unsatisfying as many of us have feared.

[C]

Right. And. And so no suspects does not mean that there's no theories, of course. And, you know, this is criminology. So rarely do we get an evolution in tactics by criminals. So criminals fall into, like everything else, you know, everybody goes to the grocery store at the same time, you put something out online, and next, you know, everybody's wearing that clothing, that article clothing, or watching that TV show. So criminals are very similar. They develop tactics because these people are not rocket scientists, typically. They develop tactics that criminals will gravitate towards. And so there's probably just a handful of possibilities that motivated this individual to go in and do this. And so when you narrow down those possibilities, you can then start looking for specific evidence of. Of what has occurred. And so there's statistics. You can throw that in there and say, this is typically what. What motivated an individual to do this. This is typically how it was carried out by statistics. And then you add in those other theories and possibilities, and you'll start to get very definitive avenues of investigation. And so that this is the way this. This is the science behind investigations. And then you'll get, you know, I believe probably one of the reasons why they're asking for information for those dates is because they either talk to some of the neighbors who said, we think this occurred on this day. We may have heard this or saw this. And so they'll go back and they'll look at video footage that people give on those dates to try to discover if there's any other evidence of leads. Again, on the date that you're talking about at the end of the January, it was already starting about, I think you said, eight days Before, So that would be moving towards the full moon. So it's starting to get brighter. Which means. And in Arizona, when it's a full moon at night, which it was on February 1, it is like a street light on outside. It's pretty bright if the moon is up. And I think you can see the difference in the videos that they show from the night that Nancy was abducted, removed from her house. And you can see the picture that was taken. We, we believe somewhere in January that it's. It's much darker. And so they may be looking to see anybody has video footage if information comes in for those dates and then be able to enhance that video.

[B]

Well, this point forward, but this just in from our friend online, nerdy Addiction, who's had some good scoops in this case. Parlaying off of the Brian Entin report that the police are asking residents and neighbors of Nancy about January 24th as a date of interest and possible video that they may have the nerdy pointing out that there is footage that drew little attention earlier in this case of somebody, he seems to be like, peering through windows and kind of of walking around. But they. He's reporting that this drew little attention as the individual appears to be black. And we do not believe that the suspect on Nancy's porch was black, though, to be honest, it's kind of hard to tell. But saying that ring posts from neighbors describe this man or somebody who looks like this man, we're showing now around 4am on January 24, peering through windows and attempting to open doors at their homes. So this video suggesting nerdy here is suggesting that this is video from January 24, that it's somebody peering through windows and attempting to open doors at homes and that it comes from ring cameras. It's labeled ring in the area, but the individual appears to be black and the guy on the porch and not

[C]

hiding their face, Megan, not hiding individuals, not hiding anything about themselves. There's fingerprints everywhere. So I just don't think that's. I think this is showing you how many people are out there, you know, walking about and looking in people's homes and cars in the middle of the night. It's pretty profound how many people are out there doing this.

[B]

Scary.

[C]

That's what that tells me. Yeah.

[B]

And also it, you know, the carefulness of law enforcement, whatever now at least, or the FBI in trying to go track down every lead. Chad, you know, like, they don't think this is the guy. He's black. We think that perp is Hispanic or white, but might as well Right. Like, might as if they have no leads, if they have no suspects. Might as well. Same as. Might as well go back to that Mexican restaurant where Savannah and Annie and Nancy had the margaritas and ask, did anybody linger? Didn't anybody have some sort of an angry fit? You know, I don't know, like that. That. That to me just seems like responsible police work and nothing to get excited about. But what's your take?

[A]

Well, I think it leads to the integrity of the investigation, that no stone will go unturned, that we are following up on any type of lead. Listen, go and find out. Hopefully by now they've interviewed this guy that was just on that video. I mean, is it possible that you dot your I's and cross your t's and make sure he wasn't the second person that we are, you know, discussing? There's likely a second person involved. Could it have been him? I. I agree with what Jim's saying. I do not think he is involved. I also was trying. You could see. I was trying to see if we saw any tattoos lurking out the bottom of that sleeve of his, which I, you know, unfortunately wasn't able to see through that video. But I think that, you know, at some point, you've just got to start over. You got to start over. And we got to start from day one again, and we've got to start going through every piece of information, every tip that's come in, tip by tip, because is it possible? Look, Megan, you and I look at some of these tips and dismiss them. We slide them over to Jim's desk and he comes back behind us and looks and he picks up on something that we miss. That happens all the time. That's called good investigative skills, good police work.

[B]

That's what they need to do. They need to call Jonathan and you and Fitz and Maureen and say. And our palace, James, and say, we need. We need fresh eyes. We need somebody to start anew. Because if the non fresh eyes haven't gotten us anywhere, that's a problem.

[C]

That's why investigations are often solved by people who inherit the case, not the actual primary and original investigators, because they come in and they just have a fresh look. And when they go back. The other problem is when somebody is investigating and they're. If they're not cataloging the evidence and the leads and then clearing those things properly. This is a huge part of investigating that most people overlook. I think the two biggest things that ruin an investigation is first and foremost, crime scene degradation. When people go in and trample the Scene or release the scene too soon. Right. That. That messes up a trick which happened here. Right. And the other thing is, are the leads being cataloged properly and then cleared? Because what will happen and evidence as it comes in the same cataloged and stored. And what we. We see is that often when these cases develop, they're not being. The leads coming in are being put in a book, or they're just handed to somebody and say, go clear this. And so it. They either are redundant and clearing the same leads multiple times, or they just never get cleared. And then when they have evidence, I mean, how many times we've seen work, they don't know where, you know, the. The underwear from the victim is located. They can't find it anymore. Right. So that's because they don't have experience cataloging and storing evidence. So I. I think when we look at this, the way that this is handled, we would probably find a lot of that. That information.

[B]

Yesterday, we played a sound bite from the sheriff saying, you are not safe. You should be wary if you're in this neighborhood. You know, keep your eyes and ears open. Which is 180 from what he said in the beginning, saying this was targeted and there's really no reason to worry. And now he's like, oh, if you think it's just Nancy Guthrie, think again. You know, you should. Okay. What? All right, what? And sure enough, all of this. What looks like incompetence from the outside is taking its toll on. On the neighbors. Can you imagine being these poor neighbors with, like, of course the media was camped out there nonstop, and the law enforcement keeps coming back and they're going door to door. Both the Pima County Sheriff's Department and the FBI now, too, knocking on every single door again and again and again. And the ring cam or the nest cam, and this date and now also this other date. Oh, and now there's a third date. And please go back and check again. I mean, I'm sure these neighbors. And plus, they have to worry about living there. Here is Brian, spoke with Brian Enten. Spoke with a gal named Al Dean, I think it is. And listen to the. This person describe this is on March 9th, how the neighborhood has changed.

[A]

It's interesting.

[C]

Like, no one's ring cameras work in this neighborhood. It seems like.

[D]

Well, it's such a safe neighborhood. Like, honestly, like, half the time we used to not lock our doors. We do now. Now we have cameras and things like that. But no. Yeah, I've never even had a package stolen ever in 23 years.

[A]

So. So it really is one of those.

[C]

Because I heard some people say, oh, yeah, it's like one of those places

[A]

you wouldn't lock your doors. But you really didn't.

[D]

Yeah, we really didn't. Yeah, we really didn't. I mean, I had three teenagers wandering around here, and yeah, I'd come home and the door, back door would be wide open. I'm like, who's that? So, yeah, never a problem ever.

[C]

And now that tells me very quickly, is that that neighborhood, which. There's a lot of those neighborhoods here in Arizona that are very dark at night, and because they don't want the ambient light getting out there and ruining their scene. And so it's very dark and removed. You're not just right off the freeway into that neighborhood, that you have to travel a little bit to get to that neighborhood. So the way she's describing that neighborhood is that it's gone for a long time without any robberies or any worries. So that tells me either somebody who is a burglar keyed in on that neighborhood, or Nancy was targeted because nothing ever happens in that neighborhood. And what we do find, statistics show, is how in these sleepy towns or these sleepy neighborhoods where they say nothing ever happens here, and we're shocked by this murder or this mystery, it is typically related to somebody who is related to that person or who met them along the way and targeted them.

[B]

Well, I mean, I have to say, given all the video we've seen of peeping Toms and. And sketchy characters clearly trying to break into homes or at least peek into homes, you know, between the Nancy abduction and today, I'm not sure Aldean is correct about how safe that neighborhood is, even separate and apart from Nancy. Sometimes you have the illusion of safety, and then an event like this comes out and you get everybody's ring camera, and you realize, oh my gosh, what was I thinking? You know, what was I doing? Especially living in a place that's as dark as this neighborhood is, you know, like my neighborhood. Thankfully we've got got street lamps and a lot of them, and everybody's got their. Their lights on in their home especially. Now.

[C]

The thing about Arizona, though, never assume is that you will have a neighborhood where, you know, million dollar homes and then. And nothing ever happens there at Scottsdale's like this. You go down the road like five minutes, and all of a sudden you're in one of the worst places in Phoenix. But the. The crime doesn't exactly bleed over into that area. It pretty much stays safe. The Whole time. So this just shows me that's how

[B]

it was when I got involved.

[C]

Sure. That individual went into that neighborhood because they either discovered that place as a target or they were targeting Nancy and her home in particular. And because we don't hear any evidence, we haven't heard any testimony that or ring camera or any cameras of an individual approaching any other home. We just have not seen that. And if the FBI has it, they haven't made it known. So that tells me that they were keyed in on that home for whatever reason.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, do we have a theory we like? Right. Cause it's like the sheriff's saying, I had a theory and my theory's only grown. And I'm like feeling good about my theory. To me, that suggests that it's not the family, which dovetails well with Chad's information that they all passed polygraphs and passed them with flying colors. And it also suggests to me that it might not be a kidnapper because the. I don't know. I feel like we've moved off of that since those ransom demands kind of fell apart. Like, I can't imagine that theory being your original theory that only grew. Now if your original theory is a burglary gone bad and maybe the sheriff knows something we don't know, Chad, about, about something that was stolen from inside the house or some things could be more than one thing that was stolen other than Nancy. That is. That's something that could have been the original theory and that has only grown since then.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I still go back the, the biggest confusion through all of this is why take her? That's what I'm. That's what I'm struggling with. If this was a burglary gone bad, why take her? I think I mentioned this a few weeks ago, Megan. It's not like you can take her out and Jim, you're out there, but you know the idea that you're going to just take her miles down the road in the desert with a couple shovels. Like I would assume that the, the terrain and the dirt is much more firm and hard. You're not just going to dig a six foot hole and put her in. Going back to the idea that this is a possibly like a cartel type thing with the tattoos, that's just so freaking risky. Like what cartel is going to come up, kidnap her, take her back across the border knowing that if it is discovered and the agencies that we have working the FBI, other three letter agencies that I'm sure are involved, and they find out that the cartel down in Mexico has her. I promise you, Donald Trump will wipe that entire city off the map if they find that out. So the whole thing, everything, and I think this is the hard part for most viewers and even myself as a former law enforcement officer here is every single one of these theories is possible. Every single one is possible. I am still leaning towards this was a two man show, that it was an intended, that they picked this for a reason. I do not know why. I don't believe that it was truly because of, of who Savannah was. But I do believe it was targeted. I do believe that it was two people that did this. And that's where I kind of have to stop until we get a little bit more information or see some more of these images from the back door. I don't know why the sheriff or the FBI, you know, unless there's something really damning at that back door. I wish we were getting a little bit more information on what they saw, what the forced entry in the back door looked like, like.

[C]

Let me, let me give you an example of how investigators see different things. And Chad, and I've been given the same information, but I see it differently than Chad. Doesn't mean I see it better. I see it differently. I see that this individual was caught on camera. We know at least once before and there's no sign that anybody else was there that time either. So I don't see proof that somebody else was involved. Doesn't, doesn't mean that they weren't. But my lead theory would be that somehow he keyed in on this house or like for instance, if he did work on the house previously, and so he may know what is in and around, that he may have met her and got a sense that she's wealthy or he may have seen a show and found out that she's comes from a wealthy daughter. So have it, you know, so have it. And I think that this individual case, that home and then eventually on February 1st decided to go in and burglarize the phone or the, the home and something occurred in there where he had to remove her. Now, we do see in a lot of these types of cases where they remove a person, but they don't kill them immediately, but they don't know what to do with them afterwards. And so then they kill them, keep them in their car and then dispose of them later, you know, days later in a totally different area. And the same thing, if he killed her inside or injured her bad enough, he wouldn't want to leave evidence, most likely. I mean, the guy went out of his way not to leave any evidence of who he was. So I see this as a good possibility that whether he killed her there or whether it was. And that was his purpose or something happened when he removed her, I just see that the possibility of him working with somebody else, based on what we know is probably less likely. But he definitely was around that house twice before by himself.

[B]

So you think Jonathan maybe. Maybe in trying to rob her or burglarize her home, they had an altercation, possibly she scratched him. She had his DNA or something, but like that he didn't intend to take her. He took her because something happened inside the house that led him to believe she had to go.

[C]

Yeah, I saw something that was very interesting the other day. I don't remember who reported it, but they said that they were there almost immediately after this or when media started to show up and they saw that there were two drag marks that were going through the gravel that were not. Not tires. And I thought that was very interesting because if she was incapacitated and either dead, so she wasn't bleeding profusely, because even if you shoot someone, if they're dead, the bleeding is going to stop pretty quick. So there may be splatter and there may be a mess inside, but as you pull them out of there, there's not that it's not like you're going to. Unless there is massive wounds that, where there's blood exposed, just a gunshot may not.

[E]

Not.

[C]

It may be internal. So the bleeding. So. But after the heart stops pumping, the. The massive bleeding stops. So she could have been drug out of that house into a waiting vehicle and then. And then sped off. So there's. There's a possibility of that. Both of these are good, I think theories that could be looked at. But again, the way this sheriff does things makes about as much sense as the way the word sheriff is spelled. You know, you put two Fs at the end instead of two Rs in the middle. Never made any sense to me. So that's the way. That's the way this sheriff thinks it's true.

[B]

Like dessert in the Caribbean. All these things raise questions. You want to weigh in, Chad?

[A]

No, I just had a question and obviously Jonathan, coming from the federal side, and Jonathan, some of the stuff for operational security we might not even be able to discuss. But. But something that I was thinking is, do we not have. Does any of these agencies not have the capabilities? We have satellites all over. Is there not the capability? I know we're kind of Treading on some Patriot act stuff here, probably. But is there not the ability to pull satellite images, real time from that area? I don't know if the technology's out there or not.

[C]

I'm sure, you know, there's definitely satellites that could pull real time video of, of those areas, but there's not enough satellites where they're just constantly scanning areas. And you're talking about satellites that are predominantly owned by intelligence services and Department of Fence. The sheriff's department doesn't have one. The FBI wouldn't have a satellite up there. They, they communicate and work things out like interagencies typically would. But so I, I don't think that you would, you would be able to get anything there. But I would say that. And this may have already. The time lapse for this may have already expired. But, you know, they could have put up drones or helicopters that have the ability to, to look at different type of imaging, heat seeking, and then also looking for buzzards, as crazy as that sounds. I mean, we got no, no notification of anybody out there searching in this way, shape or form. And that's why you, when people say, we want to put together a posse and go out there and search, you say, all right, but let's do it in a coordinated fashion. And then, because they could go out there and say, and this has happened numerous times where searchers see a bunch of birds circling and they say, let's go look over there. And sure enough, they find something.

[B]

Yeah. And Maureen has been talking about how she's worked scenes where they will be told to examine the animal scat because animals can't digest things like bones and hair, and they'll find clues. Sometimes it seems like none of that really thorough work has been done, though. Again, we, we are speculating because we don't actually know it. I mean, the odds of this sheriff having been that thorough seem slim. Keep going.

[C]

There's limited amount of time also, Megan. It's not like animals eat anything any day that they see on the ground. There's very specific times in which the bugs will go there, certain animals will partake in that. That body, and then the scavengers after that and after that. There's really. It's on the micro level where stuff is tearing away the body. So there's very specific times from the point of death that any of these animals or bugs will get involved in this. So, you know, if, you know what you're looking for, if it's been five days, it may not be buzzards. It may be, you know rodents. And so you. You. You tend to look for certain things on certain days. I'm not saying that's the dates, but you see where I'm going.

[B]

Oh, no. But all he kept doing was turning down help. Just turning down help. Search after offer after search offer. We never saw the civilian, you know, masses go out there hand in hand and do the grid search that we've seen in so many other cases. Cases. Which person?

[C]

Yeah, the Cajun agent was waiting.

[B]

They wanted to, I'm sure Equisearch offered to. They always come in and. They always come in and offer. And there was a report that they did here, too. I'm sure the local citizenry offered to help. I'm sure every single one of Nancy's neighbor neighbors.

[C]

The ladies glass from Mexico.

[B]

The ladies from Mexico, which is. That's the real deal. Like, they're. They're. That's nothing to trifle with. Said no to it all. I'm starting to think the sheriff did. I mean, it's like, why would you say that?

[C]

Does he have a relationship with her?

[B]

Right. Like, let's. Let's dig deep on that one. We're being facetious, but, I mean, it's just. It's a mystery. Remains a mystery. It's time for a little spring cleaning. Here's a place to start. Go drag your old dated wireless contract out of the closet and beat it with a broom. Then freshen things up by switching to Pure Talk, who gives you unlimited talk text and plenty of data for just 25 bucks a month. Month with no contract, no cancellation fees, and no overseas customer service. If you ever need help, maybe you'll like them as much as Lois. Listen to this review quote. Switched to Pure Talk a few years ago. Amazing. Same coverage and clarity as Verizon or AT T at a fraction of the price. Award winning customer service just upgraded to an iPhone 16E and the support and deals were superb. Why anyone is still getting ripped off by the big Guy guys is beyond me. Want to make the switch? Dial £250 and say Megan Kelly. And then switch to Pure Talk. You get an extra discount if you say with an Irish accent, dial £250 and say Megan Kelly. No, it's not true. You get the same discount, but try it just for fun. And you could save 50% off your first month. Good deal, guys. Thank you both so much. To be continued.

[C]

Think about it.

[B]

Love those guys. Chad and Jonathan, great job. Tomorrow on part three of our series, investigators are working to process mixed DNA found at the scene with no other solid leads, is DNA going to be what ultimately cracks this case? Thanks for joining us today. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear. Foreign.

[F]

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