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The Megyn Kelly Show
BS Report on Cuba and Drones, and Why Spencer Pratt Can Win, with Mark Halperin, Ryan Grim, and Curt Mills, Plus Why TDS is REAL, with Jonathan Alpert | Ep. 1319
01:42:14
Megyn Kelly discusses the curious new report about Cuba having 300 drones and why that's BS "pretext" to potential military action by the U.S., why Cuba is not going to attack America and why that idea is insulting to the American people, misleading reporting and collusion between the corporate media and our government, and more. Then Ryan Grim, co-host of "Breaking Points," and Curt Mills, executive director of The American Conservative, join to discuss what it really means for America to "take" Cuba, why America can get what it wants in Cuba without military action, and more. Then Mark Halperin, host of "Next Up," joins to discuss why Senator Bill Cassidy lost his primary, why Trump's influence is still so strong within the GOP, the possibility of Thomas Massie losing his primary tomorrow, the crucial demographic of the white working class President Trump is losing now, why it could seriously hurt the GOP in future elections, whether the GOP is heading for a loss of both the Sena...
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Megyn Kelly
It's go time. And at aaa, we're here for it. Here for front row seats and backyard barbecues. All in for the spontaneous road trip and the well planned vacation. For worry free commutes, awesome adventures and great escapes. From camping under the stars to four star hotels here where you need us most with the best roadside assistance like we have been for more than 120 years. Wherever your journey takes you, we're here to power it. Join us@aaa.com AAA here for you to
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Ryan Grim
realize the future America needs. We understand what's needed from us to
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Mark Halperin
face each threat head on.
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Ryan Grim
We've earned our place in the fight
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Mark Halperin
for our nation's future.
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Megyn Kelly
We are Marines. We were made for this. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and happy Monday. It's been a busy spring for politics with far more contested primaries than in a usual cycle. Both parties undergoing intra party battles as they try to position themselves ahead of the midterms and the 2028 presidential election. Mark Halperin of Next up will be here later to help us make sense of what is breaking over the weekend. You might say he's next up, but first we need to tell you about a story that's not getting enough attention today. And that is America's possible military action against Cuba. Yes, just when you were getting tired of hearing about Iran, enter Cuba to possibly take center stage in our foreign excursions. We told you about it in AM Update this morning. But for those who did not get a chance to listen or would like a more full discussion, a story by Axios over the weekend really caught our eye. The headline reads, exclusive US Eyes attack drone threat from Cuba. A threat from Cuba which is basically completely imploding and not in a position to threaten anybody. But this is what they're going with. The story says the reporter got exclusive access to US intelligence indicating Cuba has obtained more than 300 military drones. 300 military drones. It goes on to say that leaders of the island nation have had discussions about attacking the US Military base at Guantanamo Bay, US Military vessels, and maybe even Key West, Florida. Yes. While they night after night cannot even keep the lights on or the ICU units in their hospitals powered, literally losing power on their ventilators of babies. They're thinking about bombing us. That's, that's what Axios wants you to believe. And I'm not blaming just Axios. It's our government. Clearly Leaking to Axios. Axios time and time again has come out with exclusives from the US Government letting us know that the Iran war is about to settle. It's over. They basically reached a deal. It's being papered now. We're about to get great news. Did it happen? I was at a tennis tournament all weekend. Did we settle the Iran war? I feel like we didn't. So that's unfortunate. But it's also unfortunate for Axios that it continues to allow itself to be used in this manner because typically as a reporter you have an obligation to your audience to maintain a healthy sense of skepticism, especially when you are obviously being fed a bunch of, of bullshit. Cuba is not about to attack us. These are lies. Okay, there we can make, we can have a good faith debate about whether we want to swoop in and rescue Cuba from the conditions we've helped impose on Cuba and be really clear eyed about why we've done what we've done and why we think they need us. But let's, please do it honestly. Let's not pretend that Cuba's about to attack us. Okay? Like this is, this is an insult to our intelligence. They literally cannot keep the lights on down there as they're dealing with extreme fuel shortages because America has cut off the oil shipments that Cuba relies upon from Venezuela. All right, the fall of Venezuela or its leadership was the death knell to Cuba. When we swooped down and we got Nicolas Maduro in a daring military operation back in January, that, that was kind of the end of Cuba, which had been hanging by a thread. And now they have no oil and so they have no power. They have no way of turning on their lights for some 23 out of the 24 hours of the day. So there is. Cuba's not contemplating an attack on America. Stop, stop. Don't insult our intelligence. Be honest. Tell us what we're fucking doing. That's just whatever. Okay, so, but are we, are we planning an attack on them? We don't know. We don't, we're not sure. Even Axios had the. Thank God, like the sense of self preservation enough to describe its own reporting as a possible, quote, pretext to US military action. Thank you, thank you for that access. It's like here's a bunch of spoon fed bullshit we've been given. I'm going to put in one line about what we actually think is going on here. They're using this as a pretext to US military action so that they can then turn around and be like we said, it was protectual. Right? You gave your audience absolutely no context for all the bullshit you just heaped upon them. You just wanted the exclusive. You want to be patted on the head by whatever administration official is giving you these exclusives. You want clicks. And therefore you refuse to actually offer context for your audience. So they are to know what's real and what's not. Shame on you. Okay, it's not just Trump's government. All the governments try to mislead the press. This is not a new invention. It's the press's obligation to be skeptical, sniff through it, and protect their audience, to protect their audience from bullshit. You don't have to make an affirmative determination. It's bullshit. But you do have to include the facts around the information you've been given so that your audience can make up its own mind. There is a fair amount of evidence that we are about to engage in some sort of military action against Cuba. CIA Director John Ratcliffe made a visit there last Thursday and warned that the Trump administration would, quote, seriously engage with the country's government, but, quote, only if it makes fundamental changes. What does that mean? Leadership. We want regime change before we'll swoop in to rescue them. The New York Times also reporting that Ratcliffe demanded Cuba shut down China's and Russia's alleged intelligence posts on the island. Okay, that that may very well be the case. I mean, certainly wouldn't be surprised at all to see these two, you know, socialist and communist nations having some sort of a foothold on the island of Cuba, which is communist, that we don't like some sort of intel post. Though I do think it's curious. This is. We weren't hearing about that, didn't hear about that from Trump or others who are sort of slowly making the case for some sort of interference in Cuba at all. This seems to be an 11th hour possible justification, cuz it's the first we're really hearing them mention all the intelligence posts from our two main adversaries, China and Russia. You know, US has got to do something. Can't be a bunch of stooges. There are more signs of US action against Cuba too, in addition to the ones that we just went through, including reports that the DOJ is now contemplating indicting former Cuba leader Raul Castro. Does this sound familiar? Does this sound like a playbook you're familiar with? Obviously they could use this as another justification for a Maduro like raid to take Castro into custody, even though he's no longer in power there. But what the hell aren't the Castros always in power in Cuba. If you think I'm exaggerating things like maybe we don't have designs on Cuba, don't trust me. Listen to President Trump and what he said himself.
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Jonathan Alpert
Cuba is ready to fall.
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Mark Halperin
Yes, It's a failed nation.
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Jonathan Alpert
You know, all my life I've been
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Kurt Mills
hearing about the United States and Cuba. When will the United States do it?
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Jonathan Alpert
I do believe I'll be the honor of having the honor of taking Cuba.
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Kurt Mills
I think I could do anything I want with it.
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Jonathan Alpert
You want another two?
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Kurt Mills
Cuba's finished.
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Jonathan Alpert
Have a bad regime.
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Kurt Mills
They have very bad and corrupt leadership.
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Jonathan Alpert
And it may be a friendly takeover,
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Megyn Kelly
it may not be a friendly takeover. It wouldn't matter.
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Jonathan Alpert
Cuba is a failed nation. Cuba also wants to make a deal. And I think we will pretty soon either make a deal or do whatever we have to do. And so we're talking to Cuba, but we're going to do Iran before Cuba.
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Megyn Kelly
We're going to do Iran before Cuba. And here's one of the President's favorite foreign policy surrogates these days. Iran war cheerleader Senator Lindsey Graham speaking about Cuba Watch.
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Kurt Mills
Cuba's next. They're going to fall this communist dictatorship in Cuba. Their days are numbered. Cuba is on death watch. It's just a matter of time, and I mean a short time. To the people of Cuba, help is on the way. You just wait for Cuba. Their days are numbered. You see this hat? Free Cuba. Stay tuned. The liberation of Cuba is upon us. It's just a matter of time. Now you see this at Make Iran Great. We're marching through the world. We're cleaning out the bad guys. This is Ronald Reagan. Iran is going down. And Cuba is next.
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Megyn Kelly
Marching through the world and cleaning out the bad guys. I mean, we're going to be really busy. Super busy. There's a lot of bad guys out there. Just how many of them are we going to get rid of? And with what money? Joining me now for reaction is Ryan Grimm, co host of Breaking Points, who recently visited Cuba along with Kurt Mills, who's executive director of the American Conservative. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet and that now they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack. And that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help make everyday Purchases more affordable. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more@guardyourcard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card. Ryan, Kurt, welcome. Great to see you both. So, Ryan, I'll start with you. As somebody who is just recently down there. Your thoughts on the liberation of Cuba.
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Kurt Mills
As Senator Graham put it, your description is accurate. And not only did we cut off Venezuelan oil from getting to Cuba, Trump also basically told every other country that they were not allowed to send any oil to Cuba. They told Mexico and couldn't send oil for Cuba to purchase. We're not talking about, like, charitable oil tankers that were just going to Havana. We're talking about commercial transactions that the Cuban government had already entered into. There was one tanker that Russia sent to Cuba, and as it got close, kind of under pressure, Trump said, okay, this, this one can get through. So in five months or so, you know, one shipment of oil has gotten to Cuba. And because it's been under sanctions for many decades, but very tight sanctions since 2019, which were implemented by Trump but then extended by Biden, their electrical grid is trash, like they have. They haven't been able to get the equipment because they're under sanctions to upgrade that grid. And so even as they've actually pretty rapidly accelerated to clean energy, I think they're at 20% renewable because they're, they, they, they understood like, oh, we're on an island and they're increasingly going to choke off our access to oil from, from offshore. So we need to ramp this up with the grid in, in such disrepair, they have consistent, as you said, blackouts across the entire island. And so the idea that they're going to launch some preemptive attack on the United States of America is. Yeah, it's barely even an insult to our intelligence. It almost doesn't even rise to that level.
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Megyn Kelly
It's just, it's so insulting. Sadly, it's fine. The American people, people can make sure up their minds about whether they're in favor of this or not. It's not the same situation as Iran. It's got a whole other different list of issues around it. But don't lie to us and tell us they were about to accuse, attack us. I mean, that's, it's a joke, Kurt. To suggest that Cuba lying there in the dark, watching its elderly and its babies die on ventilators that they can no longer power is like, how can we, how can we attack the world's greatest superpower that in like 24 hours put every Iranian ship at the bottom of the ocean? That's, that's, that is not a thing that's happening.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah, I mean, look, I think we've seen two things here. Number one, we've seen these sort of intel elements of the intel community and hawkish elements of the administration leaked to the media and then never apologize when they issue a correction. We saw this with the so called Taliban Bounty story in 2020. So I have no idea about the veracity of this. It's very possible that one colonel in some part of the Cuban military is plotting, you know, something. It doesn't mean there's actually a plan. And then secondly, you know, it doesn't quite say it in the report, but I think there is an implicit case building to link Cuba to Iran because of course, who is the world's probably preeminent manufacturer of drones at this point? Of course, the Iranian shahed drones. So there's going to be some article, I would assume coming forthcoming that says, you know, the Iranians are somehow going to, you know, get around a double blockade and ship shahed drones to Cuba. And it is the kind of thing that sort of sets the pretext for war. It doesn't really, really matter. I think it's pretty clear that Marco Rubio, State Department, elements of the administration and elements of the Hill. Lindsey Graham, as you featured there, want to take Cuba no matter what. And so there's just a sort of fake Casas Belli that's being cooked up.
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Megyn Kelly
Okay, but here's what I don't understand. What does it mean to take Cuba? Like, yeah, we're going to get it, it's going to be ours. It's going to be a 51st state. I mean, Trump's not wrong when he says it's beautiful, it's a beautiful island. He was saying this the other day, like, it's absolutely stunning. It's gorgeous. People who've been there, Brian, you among them, say that it's like time travel, you know, because we've had the embargo on them for so long that they've still got like, you know, cars that you'd see on American streets in like 1959, and the colorful pastels of the homes and the cars. And, you know, it's very, very charming, but it's a mess. It's been a mess for a long time. We definitely put a crescendo on the mess with Venezuela and our Embargo. And so as somebody who doesn't know that much about Cuba, Ryan, me, can you explain, like, was the old plan to just drive them to collapse economically with our embargo, et cetera, and that they'd then come begging us for help? Like, why now is it morphed into as that's starting to work. Why is it now morphed into oh, and by the way, they're about to attack us, so of course we're going to have no chance but to attack them and let's unleash the Maduro plan on them and like every single thing.
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Kurt Mills
It's an interesting question of what it means to actually take Cuba because very similarly to how the United States and Israel have different interests when it comes to Iran, kind of Miami Cuban expat community and the United States have somewhat different interests when it comes to Cuba. The US has its own interests. They don't like having a communist government in the, in the hemisphere, but the US Government has actually had no better country to cooperate with. People might not even realize this when it comes to like drug interdiction in the, in the Caribbean or you know, they actually have a good relationship when it comes to migration and you know, deporting Cuban migrants back to Cuba, what have you. But when it comes to kind of the Miami Cuban set, like they, they want revenge for the revolution and, and they want to take back different pieces of property that were expropriated, what, 60, 70 years ago. But what that looks like when it comes to governance is anybody's guess. Like, are we talking about like another, another Haiti here? Because what's interesting is right now there aren't, there aren't really any guns outside of the military in Cuba. And so even as the situation there has descended into, you know, a real, real dark moment, like people are genuinely suffering there as, as, as you alluded to at the beginning. It isn't, it isn't that violent a place. It's not a failed state. And it feels like what many in South Florida want is just a, is just a failed state. And there are tons of guns in the United States, in Jamaica, in Haiti, it wouldn't be that, that difficult in Mexico, it wouldn't be that difficult for all of a sudden Cuba to be flooded with weapons. And then you've got, and then you've got a complete failed state which then becomes a hub for narco traffickers which has the obvious knock on effects of, you know, hundreds of, you know, probably millions of migrants, hundreds of thousands dying, many of those dying Violently, there's, there's really no alternative presented for how, you know, for like how it's going to be taken and then I guess, run as a colony or something, or a 52nd, 53rd state. So it is, it is a really good question. And it's not one that's, that's remotely being discussed. It's like, okay, you think they're bad, they have 300 drones. Also, do you think Iran at this moment is exporting drones? If you're Iran and somebody's got an order for drones, I think, I think you're holding on to those for the moment. Like, I cannot imagine those are getting out. And secondly, also in the article, the article itself says that the US Intelligence community assesses that Cuba is preparing to counter attack if the US Attacks them, which is a completely different thing than the headline in Lead says. So even the own art, even their own article, like, undercuts the headline.
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Megyn Kelly
So what do you, I mean, trying to think of the Trump administration's position here, Kurt, because now that we've got, it's almost like the dog catching the bumper, right? Like we're getting what we wanted, they're collapsing economically and they do need help. And Trump can't allow Russia or China to be the help. Like, I'm with him on all that. Like, it's not good for us to have Russia or China swoop in and take over Cuba. We absolutely can't have that. So it does have to be us. But it's almost like we didn't, we didn't either think it through or we're just not sharing with the American public what we've thought through the plan would be when the thing we worked to make happen finally happened, which is the economic implosion of Cuba.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah, this is where I think you see a breakdown between the Trump alliance with the neocons and the hawks. Trump wants one thing, which is headlines, attention, big moves. Recall the Venezuela episode. Nicolas Maduro, the former president, or I guess he claims to still be the president, president at the time. Nicolas Maduro basically gave Trump the godfather offer in 2025. He said, you could have my country, you can have my resources. And Trump still abducted him. And I think that tells you what Trump wants is the big splashy visage of a victory. What the grams and particularly the Rubio's of the world want is quite, quite different. They're willing to partner with him, but they want ideological change in this country and, or revenge. And I think that's pretty different. And I think with Cuba, we may see the Venezuela model kind of collapse, because in Venezuela, Rubio and Graham actually didn't get everything they wanted. They replaced Maduro with Machado, and the regime remains intact. And even for the more nationalist elements of Trump's coalition, who, you know, claim to say we should be kicking China or Russia out of the region, it's not entirely clear, particularly with China, that that even happened in Venezuela and that this would happen here. Now, the flip side is, if they went full bore, then I think you could see the catastrophe. And I think it was pretty telling over the weekend that Robert Gates, who's a pretty careful establishmentarian type in Washington, he signaled that he thought there could be a refugee crisis if they collapsed Cuba. I thought that was actually pretty extraordinary. Gates doesn't usually, although he's a realist, plunge into that type of rhetoric. And that tells you that there's probably great disquiet about this operation. Cuba's a lot closer to Venezuela than the United States. And if something goes wrong, that's our problem in two seconds.
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Megyn Kelly
Well, that's an interesting. That's a very interesting political problem if it happens. Because traditionally, what we've seen in America is Democrats want open borders and want as many, you know, immigrants from these southern, southern countries coming across the border as possible. Republicans don't. Except when it comes to Cuba. Republicans are like, oh, actually, increasing Cuban immigration is fine because they tend to be more conservative. They're more like the Marco Rubio types who are, like, sick of what happened to Cuba, but they're definitely conservative. They're culturally conservative, and they tend to vote Republican. And then you get the Democrats objecting to too much immigration from Cuba. So it would actually raise a very interesting political question of who. What's the position gonna be? Like, are Republicans gonna back a flux of immigrants or refugees, which they've totally been against from any other country except now from Cuba, you know, and I don't know, it's gonna force a lot of people to reevaluate earlier positions or probably not. Who am I kidding? They don't care about consistency. Go ahead.
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Kurt Mills
One other quick point, just. Cause I don't think this gets discussed enough. One thing I learned while I was in Cuba talking to, interviewing top officials there is that they. They are absolutely wide open to basically whatever the United States wants in negotiations. They're open to, you know, they're open to, you know, talking about political reforms. They're not going to, you know, they're not going to say that they're going to do it under pressure but their argument is if you lift the sanctions, if you normalize relations with us, we will allow US direct investment. Well, US Companies can come in here. Top official even said they're, they're open to exploring you. You know, the United States is upset about nationalized property. Let's talk about compensation for that. Like, they're, they're wide open to whatever it is that the, that the US Is claiming are, are its problems. And what they have consistently said is when it comes to political reforms with the, with the kind of boot of sanctions on their neck, there's very little room to maneuver. And if, if you can get the kind of threat of an invasion off of you, then there's a, there's actually a lot more space where the United States could see if, if those were their actual objectives. But that's where we get back to there being kind of twin camps here. Is it the US that is driving the policy here, or is it this kind of Miami Cuban lobby that has outsized power?
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Ryan Grim
This is key. I mean, listen what Ryan just said. The nationalist objectives, just like with Venezuela, have already been achieved. Cuba has basically capitulated. So if that is the goal of the United States, it can already be done with soft power. And you might see, for instance, take a country like Vietnam. China rules like that in their region. They exert sort of Death Star influence over the country, but they don't actually invade or haven't invaded since the 70s. And so what we don't get with that arrangement though, is for Trump, you don't get the headline, and for the Neocons, you don't get the ideology and, or revenge. So it's completely unattractive to the leading cadre with, in the administration right now, even though it satisfies the putative ideological objective of the administration.
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Megyn Kelly
Well, Ryan, when you say that they're willing to do that, who's they like the current Cuban regime and is it really effectively still a Castro regime, even though not, not actually a name?
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Kurt Mills
Yes. The Cuban government has said, you know, effectively with one voice, that they're, that they're wide open to all, to putting all of these things on the table in discussions with, with the US and they say that, they say that on the record, Castro, Raul Castro is 95. And so if they do go in and capture him, like, you know, they, this Delta Force is gonna have to be very careful. Like 95, that's, that's an old guy. He is still influential, you know, because he's, because of who he is. But so, but, and so but he, he himself is the one that entered in his legacy was actually opening up normalization with the United states in the 2010s and so he is very much supportive of that project. Like they really want to move forward.
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Megyn Kelly
There was a period under Obama where you could travel to Cuba. Beyonce and Jay Z did it and then that closed. And Marco Rubio was very against that. I remember that. And really he was much more on board with the no, we shouldn't be doing anything to help Cuba right now. We actually are doing a boot on the neck policy for good. I mean, his strong belief has been this is a communist brutal regime that should be brought down. We should do whatever is within our power to bring them down so that possibly we can get Cuba to a better place where its people can live free and people who've had to flee could potentially go back home. And is there any sort of outcome that could look like that? Ryan?
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Kurt Mills
Yes, but not one that involves, you know, I guess, you know, sending in Americans to occupy it or kind of empowering the, the elements in Miami that just want revenge. Like because then it's, then it's going to lead to just bloodletting in a, and a failed state. But there, there is absolutely a place like right now, under Cuban law, anybody who has, you know, Cuban descent living in Miami is allowed to buy property there. Like they, they are, they are, they are, they are the, they are trying to open up. It is the United States that is still, I guess, you know, simmering about the, the Cold War and the fact they couldn't assassinate Castro all these different times. It's like it really, it's no longer rational. It's like it's really kind of an emotional lashing out.
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Megyn Kelly
But isn't it that you tell me, because I, I'm not an expert on this at all. But isn't it more, isn't it rational? Because the whole point is to cause what's happening now. We don't want American investment there. We don't want anything that's going to make life better in Cuba yet is, we're playing the long game like so
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Kurt Mills
that's an interesting question. So could, could we starve the population of energy such that they reach complete collapse and catastrophe? I think probably yes. Now it's taken, it's taken many decades. There are, there are protests that are, that are flaring up right now, but there are people are genuinely also directing some of the, out some of their outrage at what is closest to them, which is, which is the government also in 2019. Cuba really opened up the Internet a lot, and so Cubans now have access to, like, Instagram and things like that. And that has created, you know, the gap between how they're living and what they're seeing on. On social media has created a lot of resentment. So there's. There's genuine resentment that. That, you know, Rubio wants to kind of drive the wedge into. So could you. Could you eventually topple the government by causing enough suffering among the Cuban population? Possibly, but. But then what? Like who, like. And to what advantage? As Kurt said, all of the national goals that the US has are achievable by the end of this week in negotiations with them. Anything we want, we can have it. So how many more babies and elderly people and. And not just babies, but people who have diabetes who are otherwise healthy and we otherwise living normal, normal lives who are going to die so that enough people get upset that they topple the government, but then for what? To create a narco state 90 miles from. From Key West? Maybe? Like, because who does that? Like, who does that serve? Like, that serves our security?
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Megyn Kelly
There's no way the Trump administration is going to let that happen. There's. I would never believe Trump will not let that happen. And we would. We will be their boots on the ground before we're going to let them turn into this narco rump state right off of Key west. That. How long are we going to have?
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Kurt Mills
How long would we occupy? It's. I mean, yeah, I don't know that.
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Megyn Kelly
Now we're back to the dog catching the bumper and what's the plan? And just take the deal. When Ryan was talking, Kurt, it sounded to me very familiar to what's happening in Iran right now, where, you know, we're really hoping blockading the Iranian ports is gonna hurt the Iranians so much and the Iranian economy so much that they cry uncle. Let's sort of. We're kind of trying to do the same thing to them that we've been doing to Cuba. And in both situations, it sounds like, certainly in Iran, we had a group of people who were willing to talk to us across the table about striking a deal and reportedly was prepared to give us most of the things we're now demanding that they give us. We already had them in hand or were about to have them in hand when we bombed them. And according to Ryan, the Cubans were kind of in the same position where they're willing to give us a bunch of things. But is this other faction gonna win out where we just go hardcore like Balls to the wall, hardcore military blow things up. So we have total control of them in both situations leading us with. And then what? Because we're having trouble like getting kids educated and repairing roads and keeping inner cities safe here in America. And we really are not in a position to run Venezuela, Iran and Cuba.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah, look, I mean, the parallels are pretty striking. And the President's desire to launch into foreign affairs and do regime change wars where he said he wouldn't, instead of sort of investing in domestic renewal and the American heartland, it remains striking. Iran is obviously a more formidable state than the Cuban state at this point. That being said, the externalities of a Cuban failure, again, are much closer to the United States. And so, you know, the risk is always there, as it was with Venezuela. I think, fundamentally, you see, Trump have basically realist and dovish instincts, or at least that's what he expresses in public and to the American people, with the occasional extremely violent outbursts. Accepted. But he's always sort of turning himself or twisting himself into a pretzel to do something different than Barack Obama is said to have done. And then of course, he's always afraid of offending his constituencies. And so this is where I think you see this sort of functional breakdown in Trump's Boss Tweed style of political coalition management. I think it's very, very necess for Trump to sell himself as a neo Buchananite or anti war candidate. I think that's how he got elected. But, but, but once in power, he's got to reward all these different constituencies to an extent. What a Rubio would do as president, I think would be potentially be more honest, which is, you know, I am Cuban. George W. Bush, he wouldn't quite say that, but that's the pitch. And then, you know, there would be an ideological brick by brick way of doing it. I think it would be catastrophe. I don't think it could win. I think it'll be voted out. But Trump, by sort of putting this potion together, is actually potent because there is a group of people that, you know, hold out hope against hope that Trump will do something different. And in fairness, I will say, at least at this point, maybe Trump changes his mind. He could always change his mind. And that is the sliver of hope with both the Iranian and Cuban portfolios. And that is different than if Rubio was the president, and that is different than if Bush was the president.
- [32:51]
Megyn Kelly
I really just wish, you know, the administration would do us the courtesy on Cuba of what they failed to do on Iran and make the case. Tell me, you know, I'm a lawyer at heart. I'm really just a soulless lawyer who wants to be persuaded with the best evidence. Like, put it in front of me and let me make up my own mind instead of spoon feeding me a bunch of bullshit. Go ahead.
- [33:14]
Kurt Mills
No, you say you want to hear the case, and then they tell you they've got 300 drones pointed at Key west, and you're not satisfied with that, so you know they can't win.
- [33:23]
Megyn Kelly
Crazy.
- [33:23]
Kurt Mills
The no case is there's yellow cake in the drums.
- [33:26]
Ryan Grim
The incoherence is the key, though, because everybody. It's a Rorschach test. If they actually, like Trump, like, went to Congress and, like, explained what he thought, it would. It would sound insane. I mean, we can see it on the true social. And so, like, if he did his Colin Powell moment, if he did his sort of Dick Cheney Meet the Press moment, it wouldn't make any sense. That's a key element here because people see what they want to see, if they want to support Trump in these endeavors.
- [33:51]
Megyn Kelly
You don't think. I feel like, okay, Trump is not always his most effective spokesman. Like, his political instincts are second to none, but he's not always his best spokesman. But Marco Rubio would be like, send Marco.
- [34:01]
Ryan Grim
But it's different. He hasn't done. He's overrated. He hasn't done that much better. What is the first thing that Rubio did on that Monday after the. He said, I know that we did it for Israel. So, I mean, like, the honesty is actually not politically useful for Trump because he has spun up this scheme politically, and it has to. Only he can keep it going, frankly.
- [34:24]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so we've solved nothing. But we are all concerned, and I think we have every right to be. We'll continue to follow it, I don't think. I think this is the beginning of another major story and not a resolution.
- [34:39]
Kurt Mills
It doesn't need to be solved because it already is solved. Like, it's right there for us to take. We just have to tell Miami, calm down. Like, you don't run the gun for me.
- [34:48]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, God. On that note, talk to you guys soon. Thank you for being here. Up next, up next, get it. We've got Mark Halperin. I'd love to know what you guys think about Cuba. I mean, it is in our hemisphere, if you follow the Don Row doctrine. We definitely have to pay attention to what's happening in Cuba. In this situation, it's a little different than Venezuela because we're causing what's happening in Cuba. But now What? Right. That's what we were getting to with the guys. Now what is it? Does it become a territory? Does it become a state? Are we responsible for it? Do we have to fuel it, fund it, repair it? Who's going to be in charge when we do that? What happens to the existing leaders who are, you know, communist? I don't know. I haven't heard the case made. I'm definitely not buying any. We're going to have to go bomb them because of their 300 drones. But I would buy the actual truth and make a smart decision based on it. So hopefully we will get that in the coming days. Okay, Mark Halpern is here to weigh in next. If your dog is scratching more than usual, licking their paws or shaking their head, it might seem like normal dog behavior. But it turns out those can actually be signs that your dog has allergies. And a lot of those issues start in the gut. When a dog's gut health is off, it shows up in their skin digestion and even their energy levels. But here is an option for you. Better Wild Allergy Relief Soft chews. They are designed to help balance your dog's gut health to support the dog's immune system. They are the first and only chews with ancestral advantage. Wolf probiotics with natural ingredients. Better Wild says it's proven to help reduce itching and support gut, immune and skin health. Plus, Better Wild uses clinically studied veterinarian approved ingredients. Consider giving it a try. Right now, Better Wild is offering you up to 40% off your order at betterwild.com mk that's betterwild.com mk for up to 40% off your order, go to betterwild.com mk today, the wrongs you must right.
- [37:00]
Jonathan Alpert
The fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us.
- [37:17]
Megyn Kelly
We are Marines.
- [37:20]
Mark Halperin
We were made for this.
- [37:26]
Megyn Kelly
When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want, like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. We are turning to domestic politics now, the latest on crucial primaries in the 2026 midterms and some brutal new polls for the Trump administration. Joining me now, Mark Halperin. He's host of Next up with Mark Halperin. It's a podcast as part of our MK Media podcast network. You can go and subscribe right now wherever you get your podcasts for free and on YouTube as well. Mark, welcome back. Great to see you.
- [38:22]
Mark Halperin
Thank you. I want to know if Cuba will have Democratic or Republican senators.
- [38:26]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, any idea where that one's going?
- [38:30]
Mark Halperin
I mean, probably Democrats since it's a socialist country, but I just want to buy a condo. That's my main focus.
- [38:38]
Megyn Kelly
Are we going to invade Cuba?
- [38:41]
Mark Halperin
I think they're going to settle.
- [38:42]
Megyn Kelly
Not sure what's happening next.
- [38:43]
Mark Halperin
I think they'll settle.
- [38:44]
Megyn Kelly
What's next up, Mark? Alberto.
- [38:45]
Mark Halperin
I think they'll broker a deal. I think there are people in the government who are ready to have some sort of accord with the United States and give up their ties to communist regimes and see if their economy can't be saved by being a satellite associate.
- [39:00]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Okay. And don't let anybody call you a rump state. No one wants to be a rump state. Do whatever is possible to avoid the rump designation.
- [39:08]
Mark Halperin
Totally agree.
- [39:09]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. So it. There's a lot happening in the world of politics right now. Senator Cassidy went down in the GOP primary, Republican senator from Louisiana. Very interesting because he'd been in office 12 years, but he voted against Trump on the second impeachment, the one that was based on the January 6 riot. And since then, though, like, Trump hasn't spent the whole time railing against Cassidy. He was very annoying. He was the. He's the only senator I've ever asked my audience to call. I've never said that to my. We don't really do campaigns on this show. But he was trying to block rfkj, who we really thought was important to the change that we wanted to see in the Health and Services Department. And Maha, and he has been. And Kennedy did wind up doing the right thing on RFKJ and voting for him. But then he went on to become a thorn in the side and kind of a prick and really thought he was in control. His cross examinations of RFK have been annoying. And then he just blocked Casey Means from becoming the surgeon general, which, like the surgeon general, I mean, to be honest, like, I love Casey, but, like, it's really not that important a position. It's somewhat important, but it's not like hhs. So what did he do? I mean, was it the impeachment thing? Has Trump just been lying in wait for him all this time?
- [40:26]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [40:26]
Mark Halperin
I mean, the president's good at picking his spots and Went after him when he could take him out and send a message. The president likes. He forgives people all the time. But there's some things he can't forgive. And he does understand, and he does understand the importance in politics and hardball professions of setting examples and sending signals to folks. And the folks around him, people like Chris Lacivita and the White House political director, they're tough. They take no prisoners. And when they see someone cross them, they write it down in a little book. And when the time comes, they go after him. And Cassidy lost his job for one reason or one reason only. Donald Trump.
- [41:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, well, I mean, you hear, you know, places like NPR this morning, like, oh my God, just like Donald Trump's hold on the party, you know, after what happened with those Indiana state lawmakers who wouldn't change the redistricting rules, and Trump basically offered up his own slate of people who could replace them. And the Indiana voters were like, we accept. They went with Trump's preferred lawmakers at the state level because these guys crossed Trump. Trump wouldn't have it. He fought back in Indiana. He will fight back. It doesn't like he will, he will mess with an Indiana state representatives race. He will mess with the Senate, U.S. senate. He will certainly mess with a House of member of the House of Congress, like as we're seeing in Thomas Massie, Lauren Boebert. Trump's getting involved in that, but they're very upset over at NPR that he's got such a hold on the party. But he has for some time. It's his party. And there's no evidence of that weakening, is there?
- [42:03]
Mark Halperin
Virtually none. Again, the voters get to decide, but Trump gets Donald Trump gets to tell the voters what he'd like them to do. And within the confines of Republican primaries, they generally do what Donald Trump says. He's almost never lost. Part of why I think he hasn't endorsed in the Texas Senate runoff is because he doesn't want to blemish his record. Because if he tells folks to vote for John Cornyn, that may not happen. So he knows how to pick his spots. And in this case, he found a candidate who he thought could be Senator Cassidy. And he was right. And I suspect it'll same thing will happen in Kentucky tomorrow with Thomas Massie. The president has no use for Thomas Massie. And Chris La Civita again, one of the president's political advisers is an open book on X for a long time saying, this guy's got to go and they know how to do it. They know how to do politics. I understand why people might find it not dainty or not, not to their liking, particularly npr. But he, but he has, he's got a hold on the party and he, he uses it when he wants to.
- [43:06]
Megyn Kelly
When you think Trump, you think dainty.
- [43:07]
Mark Halperin
Exactly.
- [43:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [43:08]
Ryan Grim
But I mean those two things.
- [43:09]
Mark Halperin
I don't remember NPR being upset when Joe Biden's people called around and threatened members of Congress who had the, to Meredith to say that the president had lost a step or two. You know, this is what presidents do. They play hardball because they didn't run for the office to be nice to everybody and let people walk all over them. They play hardball, whether it's Donald Trump or Joe Biden or anybody else I've ever covered in the job.
- [43:29]
Megyn Kelly
Well, and Trump's got enough to deal with with dissenting Democrats. He really can't have any defections on Team Red. And that's the message he's sending, like, you defect and you're going to get it. And these guys are in the business of politics. So, you know, welcome to politics. Now, let's talk about Massie, because that one, I think is a lot more emotional for people. I'm not sure anybody really cares about Senator Cassidy, to be honest. With all due respect. But I think they do care about Massie. How much have we heard about this race? Now, I'll tell you where I am on it. He's a detractor of Trump's for sure. He's been, he's dissented on a lot of Trump's agenda. But I, I've been watching and personally, I have no problem with that. Like, okay, he's allowed to dissent from Trump. But then don't be surprised when Trump unleashes on you. Don't be surprised when Trump tries to primary you. Like, that's, that's again, politics. But I am somewhat turned off by the amount of like AIPAC money and like the pro Israel crowd has decided to make Thomas Massie suffer because he's against any foreign entanglements. I mean, he's really opposed to virtually every single dollar that we spend on foreign aid. He's not into it. He wants, he's an America only guy, not even an America first guy. And for this, Israel has chosen to make him suffer or it's like supporters here in America. And I just find it such a turnoff the amount of money that Miriam Adelson has dumped into this race. And so I do think that there's a faction of Republican voters and probably some Democrat voters too, who don't want to see him go down because we don't want. I don't want AIPAC controlling our elections, and I don't want CARE controlling our elections. You know, I don't want these elections determined on what's good for Israel or what's good for Muslims abroad. It should be about America. So it's annoying. But I'm not surprised to see Trump unleashing all the stops against him because even before the Israel thing was taking front and center stage, Trump hated him like he's been voting against Trump.
- [45:28]
Jonathan Alpert
Right.
- [45:29]
Mark Halperin
So you're absolutely right that Massey's different than Cassidy in the respect you said, which is there are people who are passionate about Massey, not just in his district, but all over the country because he has a certain strand of MAGA who really likes him, who likes to stand on foreign interventions, who likes what he's done with Rohana on the Epstein stuff. So he's got a big following. And you're right that AIPAC's putting a lot of money. But I'll say if Massie loses, it'll be for the same reason Cassidy lost Donald Trump. The money that's been put in by pro Israel forces I don't think is dispositive. I think he'll win or lose based on the what the president, his team have mobilized every, every dollar matters. But there's money on both sides in this race. And Massey's got. Got support also from people who you wouldn't necessarily want to quote, unquote, as you said, control. But the control here is to the voters. And the voters get to decide if Massey gets reelected or not. And again, I think if he loses, and I think he probably will, it's almost entirely because Donald Trump wills it to be so. And the party follows Donald Trump on most everything.
- [46:33]
Megyn Kelly
He's making the case that it is the Israel money. This is what he said to ABCs this week. Yesterday stopped 10.
- [46:40]
Ryan Grim
Well, you see, you've actually said this
- [46:42]
Megyn Kelly
week that this, your vote is a referendum on whether Israel gets to buy seats in Congress.
- [46:49]
Kurt Mills
What did you mean by that? Well, the rjc, aipac, and Miriam Adelson and Paul Singer, they're all part of
- [46:56]
Jonathan Alpert
the Israeli lobby, and that's where all
- [46:58]
Kurt Mills
the money comes from. And it will be a referendum on foreign policy whether Israel gets to dictate that by, you know, bullying members of Congress. And I'm the one they haven't been able to bully. So they're putting all the brunt and the force on me. But you can tell that I'm ahead in the polls and they're desperate. That's why they're sending the Secretary of
- [47:18]
Jonathan Alpert
War to my district tomorrow.
- [47:20]
Kurt Mills
That's why the President's losing sleep and tweeting about this. That's why APAC has dumped another $3 million into my race this weekend, is because they're panicked and they really haven't been able to gain a lead in this race.
- [47:33]
Megyn Kelly
Is he wrong, Mark?
- [47:35]
Mark Halperin
Well, it's hard to know. I mean, Bill Cassidy on the morning of his primary was confidently predicting he would win and he didn't make the runoff. So I'm not sure we can credit him for knowing that he's, he's definitely going to win. It's, it's certainly the race is either close or up in the air enough that of course both sides are going to work hard at the end and put in more money. So I don't know that he's right about the reasons why they're doing it. They're doing it because they want to make sure that they beat him in terms of who's controlling it. Again, the President did this. This is the President's doing. But no doubt that people who want a more pro Israel policy are spending big money in the race. And that is a rallying cry. Now, it's talked about a lot, but I still don't think talked about enough or fully understood both on the left and the right in this country. Now, going after aipac, going after people who support Israel with a lot of, a lot of energy, is popular in a lot of parts of the country. And you're going to see more of this in the midterms and primaries in the general election. And you're going to see more of it in the 2028 race because this is for many Americans. They want a big change in what was a national consensus for a long period of time over support for Israel.
- [48:47]
Megyn Kelly
Yep. Yeah, I think you have Israel to thank for that. Here's what Thomas Massie told Tucker on AIPAC's influence in our US politics when he went on his show. He's been on a few times. This is, this one's from June 7, 2024.
- [49:02]
Kurt Mills
I have Republicans who come to me on the floor and say, I wish I could vote with you today. Yours is the right vote, but I would just take too much flack back home. And I have Republicans who come to me and say, that's wrong, what AIPAC is doing to you. Let me talk to my AIPAC person, by the way. Everybody but Me has an AIPAC person. What's that mean, an AIPAC person? It's like your babysitter, your AIPAC babysitter who is always talking to you. For aipac, they're probably a constituent in
- [49:36]
Jonathan Alpert
your district, but they are firmly embedded in aipac.
- [49:41]
Kurt Mills
Every member has something like this. Every. I don't know how it works on the Democrat side, but that's how it works on the Republican side. And when they, and when they come
- [49:52]
Jonathan Alpert
to DC, you go have lunch with
- [49:53]
Kurt Mills
them and they've got your cell number and you have conversations with them. So I've had, like, that's absolutely crazy. I've had four members of Congress say, I'll talk to my AIPAC person. And it's clearly what we call them. My APAC guy.
- [50:10]
Jonathan Alpert
I'll talk to my APAC guy and see if I can get him to, you know, dial those ads back.
- [50:14]
Kurt Mills
Why have I never heard before? It doesn't benefit anybody. Why would they want to tell their constituents that they've basically got a buddy system with somebody who's representing a foreign country. Does anyone have a Putin guy that they talk to? Not only do they not have a Putin guy, look, they don't. They, they don't have a Britain guy. They don't have an Australian guy. They, you know, they don't have a Germany dude. Like, it's the only country that does this.
- [50:47]
Megyn Kelly
So, Mark, to me, my takeaway in watching that is, you know, all the time. I was at Fox 14 years plus. Absolutely zero downside in Republicans saying that they are walking in lockstep with Israel. It was like nothing but good things can come from saying that back Israel 100%. Only in the past couple of years since Israel, you know, first defended itself in Gaza and then just went to the point where many people were using the term genocide and completely leveled Gaza and now it's leveling Beirut. Have they become far more controversial, even in Republican politics to the point where Republicans under 50 don't support them? So does the APAC guy continue on Team gop, or are we going to start to see whether it's at Massey's battle tomorrow or the actual midterms in November forward a change in all that?
- [51:38]
Mark Halperin
Well, they. They've already suffered some losses in both parties over the last few years. And in Democratic primaries, they've not always gotten their way. And sometimes they've completely bollocksed it up and helped someone who was even more anti Israel win a primary. So they're reevaluating how they do business. But they're up against a force bigger than just a bunch of Washington meetings and conference calls. They're up against the force of scrutiny of Israel's conduct. That again, on the left and on the right has led to a really concerted effort to say anything AIPAC does is bad. No longer, you know, should it be evaluated on the merits. Anything they do is bad. And they went for a long time as one of the most arrogant and entitled lobbies in Washington. And they're paying a price for that now, along with the strong feelings about Israel's behavior. And supporters of Israel are at a loss to know what to do. They're constantly strategizing, but they're up against some really, really powerful forces that, as I said, a bunch of meetings aren't going to solve.
- [52:36]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. All right, Mark, stand by. We will be right back. Mark stays with us. Quick break first. Don't go away. Ever been in a bad relationship? You know the kind, it just wears you down. You settle in, even though deep down you know this is not how it's supposed to be. That's what daily aches and pains can feel like. You stop expecting to feel good. You start thinking, maybe this is just my life now, but it doesn't have to be. With Relief Factor, you can break up with pain just like Anthony did. He wrote, quote, I was dealing with debilitating pain and fatigue. I've been taking Relief factor for about two months and now I'm back to running my business, fishing, gardening, doing the things that really matter to me. Maybe it's your back pain, knee issues or stiffness that's slowing you down. Relief Factor might help give you your mobility back. Relief factor is 100% drug free. It targets the inflammation that causes pain, helping you move better, feel better, and actually enjoy life again. Try the three week quick start for just 19.95. Go to relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief. Break up with pain and get back to what matters. Mark Halperin, host of Nextup with Mark Halpern, is back with me now. So, Mark, what are you thinking? What are you thinking right now? I heard you on your show. We played a clip, I don't know, two weeks ago saying you were seeing a potential more than ever for the Senate to go blue in these midterms. But since then, we've had redistricting wins on Team Red. And I don't think the momentum's changed exactly. The polls are still very bad for Republicans, especially for Trump. But has anything changed your mind? How are you looking at the midterms as of today?
- [54:25]
Mark Halperin
Well, in terms of the Senate, it's still race by race, but if it were today, the Republicans would lose the Senate because the polls, as you've said a couple times, are just a disaster. So a lot of these races would fall to the Democrats. But with a little stabilization, I think it still goes back to a big challenge for Democrats because they have to basically run the table, hold three races, win three, and then win one more. And right now, I look at Michigan, where Democrats are poised to nominate someone who I think is basically unelectable. In Maine, where I think in the end Platner will prove to be unelectable, unless I'm just really misreading the Maine electorate. And if those two go Republican, one would be a Republican hold and one would be a Republican win. Then Republicans will hold the Senate. But the environment has to change for that to happen. But it could on the Republican side. Redistricting has made it less likely. Democrats take majority, but they're still favored to. And we'll have to see how many races end up actually being competitive. But Republicans have to fix in the House, Republicans have to fix this environment problem, the president's approval rating, how people feel about the economy, the price of gas. If they don't fix that, it doesn't matter how much money they raise or how unpopular Democrats are, then they'll lose
- [55:36]
Megyn Kelly
control of both chambers because even though They've gained some 14 seats in the redistricting, you know, you could be looking at, if you look at 2018, Republicans lost 4:40 House seats. Like, if the margins are that big and the approvals are that low, no redistricting is going to save them. So they actually have to start addressing some of the concerns of the voters. This just in. We've got a couple of polls. None of them is good news for the Republicans, unfortunately. But here's one from, let's see, pulling it up, brand new New York Times poll. Dan Pfeiffer of Team Obama biased, but says for what it's worth, this poll points toward a shellacking for the GOP driven by Trump's putrid polls and unpopular war with Iran and anger about his economic policies. But the reality in the cross tabs, he writes, is even worse, and here's why. And he goes through, look, he says he has an overall approval rating of 38%. But he says it's what ha what is happening with the voters who won him the 2024 election that is making this particular Democrat happy with Latino voters. He's underwater 51 points. With voters aged 18 to 29, young voters, he's underwater 57 points. With independence, he's underwater 43 points. So in other words, that's the difference between his approval and disapproval. The disapproval is much higher. And those were votes that helped deliver him the White House. Mark, we've seen this now in poll after poll. We've even seen this, seen this with the white working class. That's in a new poll today showing the white working class in yet another poll is now showing an overall disapproval of President Trump. The this is CBS poll In February of 2025, Trump with that group, white work, white, non college voters, he had an approval rating of 68% and disapproval of 32%. So he was plus 36 with them in May, this, this month. He has an approval rating with this group of 46. Disapproval now of 54. He's now underwater eight with them eight, which is a 44 point swing to the negative for Trump with the white working class, which is without a doubt Trump's base.
- [58:10]
Mark Halperin
You know, one of the things I think so important, and if you want to be on the National Times Square, is to not hide from the truth. If you're a huge Trump supporter and you think in general the polls are fake news, you should wise up. Because the results you just read of one poll match private Republican polling almost exactly in almost every case. Every poll is a little bit different, but the general numbers are the same. And that's why again, Republicans say we gotta fix the environment. We gotta get our folks who supported Trump in 2024 to feel better about the economy in particular. Until and unless that happens, this will be a big wipeout. But there's a lot of time. And if Democrats, if Republicans can get things, people feeling a little bit better, then they can execute their plan, which is to say to folks, don't make this a referendum on Donald Trump. Make it a choice between two sides. And you know, the Democratic brand is as popular as a rat at a picnic. They're just not right now being held accountable, being held accountable for that. Because so much focus, as is always the case, is on the incumbent and people's very sour mood about the economy.
- [59:18]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Yes. If you staying with the CBS poll, listen to this. Is your income keeping up with inflation? Yes, it is. 23%. No, it isn't. 77%. 77% of the electorate says their income is not keeping up with inflation. That's dire. Dire gas prices have been a financial hardship and difficult and inconvenience. But not difficult or your finances have not been affected. 59% say a hardship and difficult. That's 60% of people basically saying, yeah, no, it's been very tough for me. Only 26% say inconvenient but not difficult. And only 15 say not affected. It's not an issue for me. This is interesting. Are you getting a clear understanding of the situation in the, in the strait of Hormuz? 69% say I have no fucking clue what's happening in the straightforward. I do not know. The answer is no. Only 31% say yes. Let's see. How do you feel about the Trump administration's approach to the economy? You've got, I've got to do math here. 40, 70% say they're either frustrated or angry. How do you feel about Trump's approach to the economy? 70% I am frustrated or I'm angry. Only 30% say they're enthusiastic or satisfied. Breaking down to 11% enthusiastic, 19% satisfied. And the inflation numbers are the worst of all. Like whenever you start asking the electorate at all about inflation, they all say that's the number one thing they hate and they're blaming Trump at this point. You know, the old, it's Joe Biden who created it. It's not working. Especially because inflation was a lot lower when Trump took office than it is right now. So I don't know, Mark, if they call you in there and they could, because everyone respects Mark Halperin's view on politics and America, what, what do you tell them to do to, to turn this ship around?
- [61:22]
Mark Halperin
Well, the 11% who aren't bothered by the President's economic policies, I can tell you one thing about them. They all use grape upon mustard. The, the people who are doing, the people who, who got rich on during COVID are getting rich now. And this is not a partisan thing, it's not an anti Trump thing. It's just a fact of our economy. When things go poorly, like during COVID for the middle class and the working class, rich people get richer. We've had it in Covid, we're having it now. And that's just the optics of it are horrible, but the reality of it is horrible. I think the big problem for the president, before he can move on to messaging and talking about the Democrats position on trans and other issues, he's got to end the war. And I gotta tell you, I've never seen a situation like this where I don't see, from talking to lots of smart people every day, I don't see the way out. Unless Iran caves in, I don't see the way out. And, and that's a problem because the clock's ticking towards the midterms.
- [62:18]
Megyn Kelly
That's not good. No, I agree with you, but it's, I was hoping you were going to deliver different news because it is, it's become like they're intransigent and they're not, they're not buckling. Trump keeps saying it. It's like, please stop, okay? Just, please, just stop, Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Like, it's like the Cuba thing. Like, we can handle the truth. We can see it's very tricky, very difficult. It's. It, there's no point in undermining the value of your own word because we do need to trust our president by continuously telling us they've caved, we've won, and it's over, when here we are weeks and months later, they haven't caved, we haven't won, it's not over. We would love for those things to be true.
- [63:00]
Mark Halperin
Right. Well said.
- [63:02]
Megyn Kelly
I don't know, Mark. I mean, what, what do you think? Have you heard anything about how they feel internally at the White House and the Pentagon about the Iran problem?
- [63:12]
Mark Halperin
Right. So there's two areas that the hopeful people cite. One is the thing the president and Scott Besson have been talking about for weeks, that Iran's going to run out of storage capacity for its oil, and that that will cause them to cry uncle, because at that point they're not making money selling oil and they'll have to shut down their oil facilities. And if you shut them down, it's virtually impossible to start them back up with their great expense. That hasn't happened yet, but the president, Scott Bestin, have been promising it for a while. Maybe that'll happen. The other is Iran has made a counteroffer. It still falls far short. The administration says what would be acceptable. But the optimists, the administration say this shows Iran knows it's losing. Iran knows it needs to make a deal. Other people in the administration say this shows Iran is still playing games and that they'll just try to run out the clock towards the midterms by coming back with incrementally, quote, unquote, better offers. I'm deeply concerned from talking to folks about the prospect of more military force used by the United States because of the capacity Iran seems to have, may have to hit other civilian and energy and health targets in Israel and in the Middle east in the Gulf states. So, again, I've covered a lot of presidents and A lot of sticky wickets, a lot of pickles, a lot of problems, a lot of challenges. I've never seen one like this because he can't walk away. People say, oh, just declare victory and go home. The strait would still be closed. They can't walk away. They can't say, well, we destroyed the nuclear program. Because they have to open it though.
- [64:49]
Megyn Kelly
Can I ask this? Won't China step in to open it? Like, I know it's not their problem. They didn't create this. But like they, they don't want the strait closed and they're friends. So don't they have a better, a higher likelihood of getting the strait open than we do?
- [65:03]
Mark Halperin
Well, I think my, just from observation and reporting in the short term, I think China's fine with the strait being closed because it embarrasses the United States. The president may say Mr. Xi is a great friend of his, but I think China loves seeing the United States brought to its knees to some extent by another, another country. And then, and again, I always want to make clear I'm rooting for the United States. I hope the President figures this out. I hope the Iranian people get regime change. But we can't put our head in the sand and ignore what we see right in front of us. I think the Chinese can work it out.
- [65:35]
Megyn Kelly
We're going to get regime change. If we're not careful, I think the
- [65:38]
Mark Halperin
Chinese will figure out a way to get oil. They're already figuring out some ways to get it. The President's going to sell him some. And the Iranians could say we'll open the strait to Chinese oil but not to other countries and oil going to China. And if the United States tries to blockade it, there could be a confrontation. So in the long term, yes, China can't go forever with the strait being closed, but I suspect they can go through the midterms with the strait being closed.
- [66:07]
Megyn Kelly
How do we think that the meeting with the Chinese President went last week? I thought it was amazing. In nothing I read, no newspaper article, no evening news report, did they talk about the two leaders digging in on AI and the threat it poses to all of our children, to our future, to our kids future. Forget the existential threat of the AI becomes super intelligent and drops a bomb on us pesky humans, which actually is a risk that's being seriously flagged by AI experts. But let's just check that for now because we mere mortals can't quite understand that one. The elimination of all of our children's livelihoods, like every white collar job in America. And a lot of the blue collar ones too, didn't even seem to come up. Mark. So who. Who's mining that shop?
- [67:03]
Mark Halperin
Well, I think our boys need to go into the H Vac business because I don't think AI can replace that. So get them off the college track, get them into trade school.
- [67:14]
Megyn Kelly
I think there'll still be jobs in journalism.
- [67:16]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, I do, too.
- [67:17]
Megyn Kelly
Not many, but some.
- [67:18]
Mark Halperin
There'll be some. Well, on our side, there are lots of people. David Sacks, Scott Best and others are very on top of this. The problem is the Chinese don't seem to have anybody who wants to take the lead, negotiate. It was discussed, remember, they have three more meetings. Part of why I think this meeting was for many, kind of anticlimactic. And is that all there is reaction to it is they have three more meetings in the next six months. And so I think this was meant to be kind of phase one. If the goal of the summit was to make Xi feel like his country is equal to the United States, I think the President pulled that off over the weekend. They announced a few other things. I'm amazed. You talk about the transformation we did earlier in how Americans think about Israel. The change in China is quite something because Donald Trump is going over there and saying what a great guy she is and how wonderful China is. I don't think you could have gotten away with that five years ago, six years ago, in fact, Donald Trump ran for president 2016, saying very different things about China. But if the goal was to get.
- [68:18]
Megyn Kelly
They didn't say it about us.
- [68:19]
Mark Halperin
No, no, I was totally.
- [68:22]
Megyn Kelly
They didn't say it about him.
- [68:23]
Mark Halperin
It was totally unequal and the President said it repeatedly. So I think that again, there's no other conclusion one can draw but that that was one of the primary goals, to give Xi what he wanted, which is to feel that the United States treats him like an equal. The problem is I don't think Xi gives anything back in return. He negotiates over what's mine is mine and what yours will negotiate over. And he wants. He wants what he wants. And I don't think praising him, he's a very shrewd guy. I don't think praising him impacts him. It makes him feel good because he can sell to his own people that, well, the United States treats us as an equal, but in terms of actually changing his behavior on controversial areas, I don't see it. And the two countries must cooperate on AI because they're the two international leaders on the matter. And every one of our children is impacted unless the government can get this right.
- [69:15]
Megyn Kelly
So, two things. One, everything you just said is exactly right and applies to what Trump has done with Putin, too. He. He thinks because he can be, you know, manipulated by flattery, that that'll work on others. And it clearly has served Trump well in politics and in real estate, but it's not working when it comes to international diplomacy at all. It's. It failed with Putin, who we also put on an equal scale to us when he came over and Trump met him at the airport. Did the Chinese president meet Trump at the airport? He did not. He sent the number two guy. We went to him and we flattered him. We said all these nice things about him, about China. Did he say any of those things about Trump or the United States? Not at all. So it's just. It's not working. Trump calculates that this thing that he has used effectively will work, and it's. It's not. That particular thing's not working. I'm going to show you something somewhat profane but very entertaining from Tim Dillon about how he views the United States and China. Having watched the news out of that summit, brace yourself. Here we go.
- [70:19]
Jonathan Alpert
This is very clear that there's no option. We're not telling China to fuck off.
- [70:25]
Mark Halperin
We're done with that.
- [70:26]
Kurt Mills
Let me help everybody.
- [70:28]
Megyn Kelly
We're done with that. We're not the high school bully anymore.
- [70:31]
Kurt Mills
We're not. We're the weird kid who may have a gun.
- [70:36]
Megyn Kelly
We are not the high school bully anymore.
- [70:38]
Kurt Mills
We're the weird kid that may have
- [70:41]
Megyn Kelly
a gun and is not hot, but
- [70:45]
Kurt Mills
it's not terribly ugly, like you might fuck them.
- [70:48]
Megyn Kelly
That's who we are.
- [70:50]
Kurt Mills
We're the weird kid that knows how
- [70:52]
Megyn Kelly
to get drugs, who may have a gun and you could see yourself fucking. We're not the bully.
- [70:57]
Kurt Mills
We are not the jock. We are not the quarterback.
- [71:00]
Ryan Grim
The.
- [71:00]
Kurt Mills
The American quarterback century is over.
- [71:03]
Mark Halperin
This is not Top Gun.
- [71:04]
Megyn Kelly
We are not Tom Cruise. You need to wake the fuck up.
- [71:08]
Kurt Mills
There's a new Chinese kid in school, and he's kind of American looking. He's kind of ripped, but he's also
- [71:14]
Megyn Kelly
Chinese and he's hot and people want to fuck him.
- [71:20]
Mark Halperin
It's an imperfect metaphor, Meghan. Imperfect.
- [71:24]
Megyn Kelly
So funny. Is he wrong? I don't know.
- [71:28]
Mark Halperin
I mean, he's persuading me he's partially wrong. I mean, we still have a lot of advantages over China. The problem is they're an evil empire. And I've said for a long time the job of the American president on foreign policy and national Security is to figure out how to get leverage over China, Russia and Iran. And as you said about China and Russia, it's also true about Iran. Remember for a while the President was saying, oh, Iranians are such good negotiators. The new group is reasonable. These three regimes are just interested in pocketing wins over the United States. They're not interested in helping Donald Trump out of the mess he's in. So, again, I hope he can figure it out. I hope he can end both wars. I hope he can topple the Iranian regime. I hope he can get every advantage over China on economics and national security. But right now, he looks to be playing a hand that involves flattery as a way to get leverage over these three governments. And I just don't see an evidence of it.
- [72:32]
Megyn Kelly
No, you're right, too. Yeah, the Iranian example is a good one. It's worked a little better with North Korea.
- [72:37]
Mark Halperin
Yes, it has.
- [72:38]
Megyn Kelly
You know, as Trump said the other day, he goes, they're quiet. So that's good. That's one. Although we can put in his.
- [72:44]
Mark Halperin
Although they still have missiles and nukes. So it's not, it's not over. It's just, they're, they're not rattling sabers immediately.
- [72:51]
Megyn Kelly
We'll take quiet. Yeah, that's great. That. That's a win. Why it's a win temporarily. Okay. Spencer Pratt remains in the headlines and now there's a question about whether Trump is going to endorse him. Reportedly, the White House is considering it. Since it's California and la, you do have to ask the question, would that be helpful? Right. It's like not sure. I'm sure they're weighing that they, they're aware of that dynamic, too. I want to show you something he just released cuz he's been doing such a good job at the ad game. You know, whether it's him or his surrogates or he retweets something that somebody did via AI. But he's clearly got a good eye for communication. What works, what doesn't. Here's his latest ad he just released with a Fresh Prince of Bel Air theme. Now, this is a story all about how my life got turned upside down and I had to take a minute to run for mayor until you.
- [73:49]
Kurt Mills
How I became the prince of a
- [73:50]
Megyn Kelly
town called Bel Air. In West Los Angeles. Palisades. My backyard is where I spent most of my days feeding hummingbirds, relaxing all
- [74:08]
Kurt Mills
cool, avoiding all the bums outside of the school.
- [74:10]
Megyn Kelly
When a couple politicians, the world are no good, started making trouble in my neighborhood, I got at one little fire, my mom got scared and said, you're moving in with Harvey Levin in Bel Air. I pulled out from my lot about seven or eight and I yelled to the rubble, yo, ho.
- [74:33]
Mark Halperin
Smell you later.
- [74:34]
Megyn Kelly
I moved to my kingdom. I was finally there to sit on
- [74:37]
Kurt Mills
my throne as a prince of Bel Air.
- [74:45]
Megyn Kelly
He's in his trailer in Bel Air at the end for the listening audience. It's very clever given that whether he actually lives in his trailer on the spot where his house burned was all over the news last week. Harvey Levin actually cross examined him on TMZ saying, isn't it true that you're at the Hotel Bel Air, you're not in your trailer on your lot, and so you've moved to Bel Air, this snooty community? And he just kept saying, my home is still a burned lot where my trailer is. I've been getting death threats. So, yeah, we, we're in a hotel now, but my home is burned and where it always was. And they just kept having this sort of meaningless back and forth. So there seems to be a jab at Harvey Levin in a clever, I think, new ad. What do you think, Mark?
- [75:33]
Mark Halperin
Well, a lot of focus on whether he'll win and a lot of focus on the ads. And the ads are spectacular and they teach a lot about what effective communication is in politics. And in general, to me, the biggest issue here, whether he wins or loses. And I think he has a good chance to win. I predicted a little bit tongue in cheek that I think he would, that he does, that he will win, but I don't feel strongly about it. But I think he could. The biggest issue is we have let down families and children in big cities around the country for decades now, almost all run by Democrats. The case of the mayor of la, Karen Bass, is an extreme one because she also allowed the fires to burn down. But separate from that, drugs, crime, failing schools, all the things that exist in our big cities run by Democrats and the Republican Party. I say all the time, the only thing bigger failure than the Democratic governance in the cities is the failure of Republicans to win these races by saying, are you sick of the failure? Let's try something different. This guy may not be an orthodox candidate, but like Donald Trump, I think that's what's given him a chance. He's highlighting the failures of governance. That's what this should be about. All these families, I live in a big city. You used to all these families and children who are failed, who have been, who have been failed by failed Governance deserve a competition of ideas. And although he's not been very specific what his solutions are, in most cases, he's been very effective and on point in criticizing critiquing the failure of governance by Democrats in Los Angeles. So whether he wins or not, I hope every conservative in the country who lives in a big city or cares about a big city learns from him to say, not just make cute, effective, funny ads, but point out the failure and offer something better. Because again, our big cities need to be saved.
- [77:25]
Megyn Kelly
No. As they say in aa, the first step is admitting you have a problem. And how can you reelect Karen Bass who doesn't admit she has a problem, or her, you know, other Democrat running mate who they seem to think, oh, whatever problems there are have nothing to do with the real problems. They won't identify the actual problems that they've helped create. So, yeah, makes sense to me. Speaking of Harvey Levin, he had an extraordinary moment in. He does a podcast once a week. Is it with Garagos? I think it's with Garagos. Yeah, it's with our friend Mark Garagos who we love and really kind of let the guard down like Harvey. I don't really know Harvey's politics, to be honest, but he seems more left leaning to me. He's been very Trump skeptical. He definitely gave Spencer Pratt the business last week over that trailer. But then there was this remarkable moment in the podcast he does with garagos. Listen to SAAT18.
- [78:21]
Mark Halperin
I'm not only a born and raised Los Angeles, but I'm second generation. My dad was born and raised in L. A And so this is my life. And I have seen this city just fall apart, you know, over the last, I don't know, eight, nine years, but especially the last four years that, you know, the homeless problem is out of control in this city. I've been chased by people. A guy with a hammer walking out of my gym, he chased me with a hammer. I had a mentally ill woman, a homeless woman, take a boulder and trash my car. And I caught her doing it and I realized there is nothing I can do. What am I going to do? Get her arrested? I mean, what is that going to do? Am I going to sue her? So I literally looked at my car, watched her walk away and said, I live in Los Angeles. And you know, the fires have been an absolute outrage in this city. This city operated in an appalling way during the fire. I've got a friend, his name is Dan Brun, he's an amazing architect. He put together a plan with 100 architects to offer their services free of charge to rebuild Altadena and Pacific Palisades. I actually contacted Gavin Newsom.
- [79:32]
Megyn Kelly
They were all in.
- [79:33]
Mark Halperin
And they brought it down to the city, which they had to do. And it died a slow death in the city of Los Angeles. So this city is not working.
- [79:42]
Megyn Kelly
Really powerful stuff. What do you make of it, Mark?
- [79:44]
Mark Halperin
Sounds like every one of my liberal friends who lives in la. This is why I think Spencer Pratt might win. Because, because that point of view, if you own a home and, or have kids and you live in la, I don't know how you have any other point of view. It's manifestly failing. And as, as the popular expression goes, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. How could anyone want to consign themselves to four more years, four more years of Karen Bass policies? I don't get it. So I just, I listen to that and it's just, it's like my inbox with all my liberal LA friends who say to me, I'm not going to vote for Karen Bass. I don't really love Spencer Pratt. I think he's kind of a joke. This is them talking, but they're all voting for Spencer Pratt, every one of them.
- [80:31]
Megyn Kelly
Trey, he should pull the Trump line out. What the hell do you have to lose?
- [80:35]
Jonathan Alpert
Exactly?
- [80:36]
Mark Halperin
100%.
- [80:36]
Megyn Kelly
Trump said to black voters, 100%. What do you have to lose? Yeah, that's what Spencer Pratt needs to say. He's, he's got something. There's, he's got the it factor.
- [80:44]
Mark Halperin
Yep.
- [80:45]
Megyn Kelly
And so I agree with you. Don't, don't rule him out just because of these polls right now. We'll see fingers crossed that our friends in Los Angeles rescue themselves. Mark Halpern, a pleasure, my friend. Thank you for being here.
- [80:57]
Mark Halperin
Great to see you, Megan. Thanks.
- [80:59]
Megyn Kelly
All right, coming up next, a first time guest on this show out with an important new book on the dangers of too much therapy. Are you feeling sluggish, bloated? Not quite. Like yourself, life constantly bombards us with silent threats, processed foods, artificial light, non stop stress. All of which can disrupt gut health, drain energy and weaken immune health. When that happens, it's not that your body is broken, it's that it might be missing the right inputs. This is why I want you to know about Amra Colostrum. It is packed with more than 400 bioactive nutrients that they say can work at a foundational level to fortify gut health, support immune health, fuel recovery and promote Whole body vitality, strong gut integrity can support metabolism, skin and hair health, even performance and recovery. Which is why colostrum has long been valued by some elite athletes as well. If you are looking to take back control of your health from the inside out, consider armor. And they have a special deal for you too. Go to armor.commegan or enter megan M E G Y N to get 30% off your first subscription order. You do that when you're checking out. That's a R M a dot com. Or just enter that code Megan when you're checking out. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want, like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. The wrongs we must right.
- [82:57]
Jonathan Alpert
The fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines, determines what's next for all of us.
- [83:14]
Kurt Mills
We are Marines.
- [83:16]
Mark Halperin
We were made for this.
- [83:23]
Megyn Kelly
Hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius xm. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drischinsky, Jesse Kelly, RealClear Politics and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the SiriusXM app. Modern therapy culture has made its way out of the therapist's office and seeped into everyday American life today. It's everywhere. In our politics, our workplaces, our social media feeds. Well, our next guest wrote the book on how this happened. He's psychotherapist Jonathan Alpert and he is the author of the brand new book, Therapy Nation. How America Got Hooked on Therapy and why It's Left Us More Anxious and divided out tomorrow. Jonathan, welcome to the show. Great to see you, Megan.
- [84:30]
Jonathan Alpert
Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.
- [84:33]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, the pleasure's all mine. So tell me why you felt it was important to write this book.
- [84:37]
Jonathan Alpert
Well, like you said, therapy is just everywhere and it really should stay confined to the therapist office. But it's Not. And back in 2012, I wrote an opinion piece for the New York Times called In Therapy Forever. Enough already. And in that piece, I argued that therapy is actually hurting people, in most cases, not helping people. And then fast forward to a few years ago, when I started writing Therapy Nation, and I saw that this is a much bigger problem than I thought. It's dividing families, there's estrangement. It's affecting relationships, it's affecting dating. It's made its way into politics. So really, therapy is just everywhere. And that's why the book is called Therapy Nation. It's in many ways ruining this country. So I thought it was important to get that message out there.
- [85:26]
Megyn Kelly
So it used to be in the country, you know, stiff upper lip, you know, you're fine, you're fine. And then we kind of realized, well, that doesn't work for everybody. Some people actually do need to talk about their problems. And we had more psychotherapists pop up and more counseling pop up, and people started to use them. And how did we get from that to everyone is overly therapized and has got their prescriptions for their boundaries, their me time, their safe spaces, to where you can't even talk to some of these young people because they're so obsessed with their latest disorder or how something you've done has crossed some imaginary line that they've created in order to foster their own happiness.
- [86:07]
Jonathan Alpert
Well, and you're spot on with that. Everything's a disorder. We have therapists that are pathologizing everything. Had a bad day at work. Well, you must have a toxic work environment. Your boss is a jerk. Well, he must be a narcissist. If he's. If he's demanding or your boyfriend's not acting the way that you want him to, well, he must be a narcissist as well. So we have therapists.
- [86:31]
Megyn Kelly
Every one of my friends who has an ex boyfriend thinks he's a narcissist. Like, it's very funny. It's a common theme.
- [86:37]
Jonathan Alpert
Well, and it's an overdone theme, and my profession is to blame for that. We have therapists who are using these clinical terms so loosely, and then it's migrated and found its way into social media. So we have, you know, you name it. Your favorite influencers out there just spewing absolute nonsense and labeling everyone as ADHD or toxic or narcissist or bipolar or borderline. So it's a huge problem in our. In our society. I have patients that come into see me for the first time, and they Say I think I'm bipolar, or I think my girlfriend is borderline. And I say, well, why do you think that? Well, my influencer that I follow said that. And they put out these checklists. Five signs that you might be adhd, or five signs that your boyfriend's a narcissist. So again, this starts in my profession. I have colleagues that are putting this nonsense out there.
- [87:34]
Megyn Kelly
How do you. It's funny because I've told the audience many times that I, I've had the Same therapist for 14, 15 years now. 15 years. And. But I. So I'm like, why does that work for me? The truth is we don't really do therapy. He's more like a life coach, you know, he more gives me helpful tips for how to think about things in a different way. He never asks me questions about my childhood or my mother. You know, it's not like that. It's like he's very practical and he's. He likes cognitive behavioral therapy where you're really just giving somebody a tool for different ways of looking at things. For me, that's been very effective. But oftentimes it is more of a blame session with these therapists who want to throw your parents. Like, I have a dear friend who's been through multiple therapists and like, if I had a nickel for each one that tried to alienate her from her mother, and she loves her mother. She actually didn't seem to have a bunch of problems with her mother until the therapist started to create some.
- [88:30]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah, exactly. And Megan, it sounds like you've got a great therapist and there should be more therapists like that. But so many people have come to me and they've talked about their previous therapy and how they just sat there and talked about their potty training days for years and years. And if you think about the time commitment, if you're going in weekly and spending a fortune on this, it's a complete, utter waste of time. And I think we don't need to look too much further than Woody Allen. He's the poster boy for lifelong old school psychoanalysis. It simply does not work. And the approach that you mentioned, cognitive behavioral therapy, is much more about setting concrete goals and coming up with a plan to reach them. And that's the way that I practice as well. And that's most effective. That's how you're going to help with anxiety issues, depression, relationship relationship problems, career performance issues. But to sit around and vent with your therapist in the moment, it feels good. And that's why people keep going back for more. But if you're not learning practical skills or gaining true insight or tools, then it's a complete waste of time.
- [89:38]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Yes. They're doing this to children, too. Again, we're speaking with Jonathan Alper, and the book is Therapy Nation. How America Got Hooked on Therapy and why It's Left Us More Anxious and Divided. More anxious. That's. They're both addressed the division as well, but on the anxiety front, the children go through this, too. The children show up at school, and now the big thing is for these teachers to make them talk about the worst thing that's ever happened to them. That's what the college essays are supposed to be about something terrible that happened to you. And just the mere act of spending all your time thinking about that or trying to kick off your day at school talking about that is not helpful.
- [90:19]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah, no, it's not helpful at all. And if we're so focused on all the things that are wrong with ourselves or society, how are we possibly going to move forward? When I work with people, I want them to tap into their strengths and what they're good at, not sit there and talk to me endlessly about all the things that are problematic in their life. Let's talk about what's good and how to build on that. But you're right. We see it in schools. After the most recent election of Donald Trump, Georgetown University held emergency sessions to help their students cope with the loss. And, you know, I have to wonder, if Kamala Harris had won, would we have seen those same faculty and therapists providing help, mental health help for students? I highly doubt it.
- [91:04]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, yeah.
- [91:05]
Jonathan Alpert
But, you know, academia is a huge, huge problem in our. In my profession. I mean, we have Columbia University that teaches their grad students a model of, well, you're either oppressed or you're the oppressor. I'm sorry, that just does not work. You're creating a monster when you do that. If you're training a therapist to look at every patient as either oppressed or the oppressor, that's not going to move our society to a healthier place.
- [91:34]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I think. I'm pretty sure this is years ago when I was on Fox, but I think it was Columbia Law School, too, that canceled exams. If you were upset over. Was it the Ferguson riot? Whatever. Like you have upset. You don't have to take exams because you're too upset, which, of course, is not how real life works. When you're an actual lawyer, you actually have to go into court and argue no matter what's happening in the news, no matter what's happening in your private life. And certainly if, if you cannot function in the face of being upset, you're not going to make a very good lawyer. It's a very contentious profession. Like, you actually do need to learn how to function under duress and when things are on fire around you. But this, that little microcosm could be expanded to our, our society right now with parents creating the safe spaces in the academic environments. Create the safe spaces and then they get out into the world and they think the safe spaces are an entitlement.
- [92:31]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah, no, we have an accommodation culture that's running rampant. We have therapists who are writing notes for everything. Had a bad day? Well, you need extra time on your test, on your exam at school. Therapists are accommodating. And you can even extend this into other issues where, where therapists will just validate everything. If a young boy thinks he might be a girl or vice versa, they'll just validate and affirm that. And we've all seen the dangerous path that that can go down. So it's time that therapists tap the brakes on all this and start to teach resilience and not just cater to every weakness or fragile aspect that they think their patient has.
- [93:18]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, yes, yes. This is like, I just feel like parents have totally misunderstood their job in some ways because when your kid is home from 0 to 18 or whenever they're going off to leave you, that's your opportunity when they have problems, to work with them so that they can learn how to solve them. You're in the backup supportive role so that they can learn that skill as opposed to a chance for you to exercise your super savvy problem solving skills. For them, it's like at some point they're not going to live with you. At some point they need to do it on their own. Wouldn't you rather they practice while still with you while you can be of help if it falls apart or while they might want some input but not somebody else to do it? It's just, you can, I can see lots of people doing this. They totally misunderstand it and it's to their child's detriment. It's, it's actually sad. You also write, as I point out in the book Therapy Nation, it's called by Jonathan Alpert, how America got hooked on therapy and why it's left us more anxious and divided about the division and how, for example, TDS Trump Derangement syndrome is a real thing and it's like, you really are sick. Like, this thing could possibly wind up in the DSM 5. It might actually have a place to go in there.
- [94:36]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah, Megan, my favorite top tds and I did write a piece in the Wall Street Journal about that, and I made it very clear that this does not exist right now. It's not in the dsm, and I can't imagine that we'll ever see it in the dsm. But the pathology that I'm seeing in patients resembles a lot of other disorders. There's a hyper fixation on Trump. They can't sleep because they're thinking about Trump. I've even had patients who can't possibly take a vacation. They'll say, well, how can I take a vacation knowing that Trump's in office? So it's just absolutely ridiculous. I've seen relationships broken up because of Trump. I recall one person, he posted that iconic photo of Trump getting up after being shot in Butler, and then his significant other saw that picture that he posted. And then they went to their couples therapist, and the couple's therapist said, well, what are you going to do about posting that picture? You have to do something about that. You can't possibly put such a picture up there. And, you know, my patient was like, well, what do you mean? It's just an iconic photo. I'm not a very political person. I just happen to like the photo. And the therapist made him feel like there was something wrong with him. So we have therapists that are acting as social justice warriors rather than clinicians. It's absolutely absurd. What's going on.
- [96:03]
Megyn Kelly
TDS seems, I mean, it seems like a very, very bad affliction, truly. Like, I'd rather, I think, have ocd. I'd rather have ticks. I just feel like, because once you have the tds, it ruins and runs your life. Everything is put through the prism of Trump. How. How does. How is Trump to blame? What am I going to do about Trump? And it's very unhealthy to spend that much time thinking about your president.
- [96:29]
Jonathan Alpert
It is. And, you know, just to look at the other side, I've had plenty of patients who hate it, disliked Joe Biden or Kamala Harris, but they didn't sit up at night thinking about him. They certainly never wanted him, those people to be killed. And the difference is, on the left, I have patients whether they're in their 20s, 50s, 60s, 60s, and even older who actually want Trump to be killed. And, you know, that's just, to me, sick, pathologic thinking. You should never want a president to be shot. And, you know, all you have to do is look at our history and the unrest that this could cause if it ever happened. But they're not looking at it like that. They're just. Their hatred towards Trump is so intense, they can't see the big picture.
- [97:16]
Megyn Kelly
Is it something about him that's doing that to them? Like he's just too combative and he's too strong, or is it something about them that's doing that to them?
- [97:25]
Jonathan Alpert
Well, that's a very good question, and I think it's probably both. One of the things that I think it is, they just, they still, all these years later, just cannot believe that Trump is the president, Trump the entertainer, Trump the businessman. And they question, well, how could someone like that become president? And they just. They don't understand, and they just haven't accepted it. And after Trump was elected the first time, I had patients who were telling me they were going to flee the country, withdraw their investments. The world is ending, the country's ending. Of course, none of them left the country. And then that mentality, those beliefs became hardened. And then fast forward to the second election, and it's even worse because now they want. They want Trump dead. And look, I don't care. Like, you should never hope for the president to be shot, whether it's Biden or Trump or any president. And if you look back, what do
- [98:22]
Megyn Kelly
you think I was just going to say, just. Again, we're speaking with Jonathan Alpert. His new book is Therapy Nation. I don't understand, though. Like, as somebody who's had multiple tussles with President Trump when he's president, when he wasn't, I never got the tds, and I look at the people who get the tds, and it almost seems like Ebola, you know, like, if it strikes, it's really unfortunate. Once you get it, it's very deadly. It's very tough to get rid of it. The secret is not to get it. But it's not going to strike everybody. Why? Why are there so many people out there who can talk about Donald Trump by saying, this is something he's doing that's good, this is something, I think that's bad. And now I'm going to go on with my life. Here's the rest of the news, et cetera. And there are others who he takes over, like Rosie o'. Donnell. She blames her herpes on Donald Trump. She moved out of the country. Ellen DeGeneres moved out of the country. Like, they get Bruce Springsteen, Robert De Niro, like, it's taken over their art, their personality, their lives. It's taken truly, it's like, what. How can some still function in this world? And, and even people like, I just had, you know, some, some things I don't like about him and things I do like about him, but there's, there are people who really can't stand him, who still don't have tds. They don't think about him all the time, they don't make their life decisions about it. So what is it like? It's genuinely. Do you think these people are slightly untethered to begin with?
- [99:51]
Jonathan Alpert
Oh, absolutely. You know, so many people on the left, they, they love to have a villain. They need, need someone to hate. And, you know, look at Luigi Mangione. I mean, he's probably the poster boy for this grievance culture, but, yeah, many people need someone to hate. I would argue that a lot of people on the left that are so consumed by Trump, the figure, maybe they just don't have enough going on in their life outside of that.
- [100:18]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [100:18]
Jonathan Alpert
You know, whether it's a career, family, friends, hobbies, religion, whatever it is, there are so many things that are much more important than Trump, and friends and family should absolutely come before Trump. And unfortunately, we have mental health experts on national TV saying if you don't like the way that your friends or family voted, just cut them out. You don't need to attend their Thanksgiving dinner. And that's the advice that we have on shows like MSNBC and the alike. They're dividing our country. That's my subtitle. How they're dividing this country. And that's not the advice I would ever give. I would say, look, you should rise above politics. Like, where do you connect? If only we could get back to the days of maybe when Reagan was in office, neighbors could still get along despite having different signs in their front yard for whether it's Reagan or someone else. But we're not. We're so, so divided. And again, a lot of this I talk about in my book how my profession is responsible for that. I actually know therapists who refuse to treat someone if they voted for Trump. Can you, can you imagine?
- [101:36]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my gosh, no kidding.
- [101:38]
Jonathan Alpert
Can you imagine going into the er, maybe wearing a MAGA hat and the doctor turning you down?
- [101:47]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, that's disgusting. I mean, that's truly a violation of the Hippocratic oath. Again, the book is Therapy Nation. Well worth your time. The author is Jonathan Alpert, my guest. Now, this discussion reminds me of this Woman we featured on the show a couple of years ago. Speaking of the young people, like, signing on to every disorder which somehow makes them feel good about themselves as opposed to bad about themselves. This was April 2023. It was in New Mexico. A woman was pulled over for driving on the wrong side of the road. She was clearly intoxicated and accused of such. And she played every victim card in the book. Look at this sound bite.
- [102:25]
Jonathan Alpert
Like really bad social anxiety and stuff. I get you this person,
- [102:35]
Kurt Mills
Please.
- [102:36]
Jonathan Alpert
Ms. Perry, am I still.
- [102:38]
Kurt Mills
I'm non binary.
- [102:40]
Jonathan Alpert
So, okay, what do you go by? Kai. How can I refer to you tonight? Kai. Okay. Hey, I'm smelling alcohol. I know. How much have you consumed tonight?
- [102:49]
Megyn Kelly
Like probably three drink.
- [102:50]
Jonathan Alpert
I need to run you through some tests right now.
- [102:52]
Megyn Kelly
Stand facing me, please.
- [102:53]
Jonathan Alpert
But I just want you to know
- [102:54]
Kurt Mills
that I also have very bad social anxiety.
- [102:57]
Jonathan Alpert
You and me both.
- [102:59]
Megyn Kelly
Okay.
- [103:00]
Jonathan Alpert
Okay. Any recent head trauma, traumatic brain injuries, Anything I need to know about?
- [103:04]
Kurt Mills
Mental. Yes.
- [103:08]
Jonathan Alpert
Focus on my finger, please. I am.
- [103:10]
Kurt Mills
You're just like trying to intimidate me.
- [103:13]
Jonathan Alpert
I don't know how I'm trying to do that. This is the test, as you know,
- [103:16]
Megyn Kelly
as an indigenous person and there's a
- [103:18]
Kurt Mills
bunch of going around. I'm sorry, but it's just for me
- [103:23]
Megyn Kelly
to be on my toes.
- [103:25]
Jonathan Alpert
I get you. Can you remember that I told you
- [103:28]
Megyn Kelly
that I'm non binary?
- [103:31]
Jonathan Alpert
Yeah. I'll try my hardest. I'll refer to you as Kai.
- [103:34]
Kurt Mills
Right?
- [103:34]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [103:35]
Jonathan Alpert
Perfect. I need to know if you have any injuries or anything that would prevent you from doing a standard walk or return tonight. Mental health, any physical injuries, mentally. Yeah, can you not call me ma', am, please?
- [103:49]
Kurt Mills
I'm trying my hardest.
- [103:50]
Mark Halperin
Okay.
- [103:51]
Jonathan Alpert
Okay.
- [103:52]
Megyn Kelly
It means a lot to me.
- [103:53]
Jonathan Alpert
I'm trying my hardest.
- [103:55]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, we get. We get it. She goes on to say she suffers from generational trauma. Jonathan Alpert. We've got lots of these people.
- [104:03]
Jonathan Alpert
Well, yes, go to Trader Joe's, go to your local coffee shop. They're everywhere. Look, first of all, the cop was very respectful of her. Dozens of disorders, so good for the cop. But being non binary, having social anxiety, being a hot mess or whatever else she said it does not give you a pass on driving drunk.
- [104:28]
Megyn Kelly
So, yes, they'll try anything. I mean, it just puts the lie too, to these fake disorders. As does the book Therapy Nation. Check it out. How America Got Hooked on Therapy and why it's Left us more divided by Jonathan Albert. Thank you so much. Back tomorrow.
- [104:45]
Jonathan Alpert
Thank you so much.
- [104:47]
Megyn Kelly
Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear. To realize the future America needs.
- [105:00]
Ryan Grim
We understand what's needed from us to
- [105:03]
Mark Halperin
face each threat head on.
- [105:05]
Ryan Grim
We've earned our place in the fight
- [105:07]
Mark Halperin
for our nation's future.
- [105:09]
Kurt Mills
We are Marines.
- [105:11]
Megyn Kelly
We were made for this.
- [105:12]
Mark Halperin
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