← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Clooney Lectures About Journalism, and Dems Lean on Bernie and AOC, with Ben Shapiro and Stephen A. Smith | Ep. 1033
01:45:10
Megyn Kelly is joined by Ben Shapiro, host of The Daily Wire's Ben Shapiro Show, to discuss George Clooney trying to lecture the American people and the media about how bad President Trump is, a glowing profile of Clooney on 60 Minutes, trying to take credit for telling the truth about Biden's cognitive decline when he actually stayed silent for weeks, the Democratic party imploding, Bernie Sanders and AOC hitting the road with their their ridiculous “Fight Oligarchy” tour, Bernie suddenly sounding supportive of Trump on the border and AOC downplaying the trans issue, Trump winning in his fight against judges and leftist lawyers, woke universities bending the knee to Trump to keep their funding, Jeremy Boreing stepping down as co-CEO of The Daily Wire, Ben's push for a Derek Chauvin pardon, and more. Then Stephen A. Smith, host of The Stephen A. Smith Show and First Take, joins to discuss why he thinks he could easily win the 2028 Democratic primary but doesn’t plan on running, wha...
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- [00:00]
Megyn Kelly
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- [00:54]
Ben Shapiro
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Stephen A. Smith
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Ben Shapiro
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Stephen A. Smith
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Ben Shapiro
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Stephen A. Smith
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Ben Shapiro
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Stephen A. Smith
So if you're looking for a gift.
- [01:18]
Ben Shapiro
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- [01:19]
Stephen A. Smith
Head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off.
- [01:22]
Ben Shapiro
Your first order with promo code gift.
- [01:26]
Stephen A. Smith
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and happy Monday. I'm back home after a couple of weeks away. You know, you know how they say if you're going on vacation with your kids, it's not a vacation, it's a trip? It's a trip. But I'm happy to report that my kids are now officially at the stage where that is no longer true. They are very, very worthy vacation buddies. It takes a while. Like when they're in the single digits, all three of them. I understand that saying very well, but we've crossed over into true vacation mode. Although last week, as you know, was on a vacation. We were working, we were doing the show. We were just doing it from the Bahamas, which was quite nice. There's nothing to complain about. Anyway, it's nice to be home. And there's plenty of news to keep us propelling forward. The Democratic Democratic Party is in shambles. I Don't know if you saw this anywhere. Yeah, it's, it's in shambles. Like, you cannot open up a paper, the Internet, your podcast feed without seeing a show talking to you about how badly it has imploded according to the polls, according to the party elders, according to surveys that are figuring out why they lost. And it's just basically abject hatred by Democrats of their own party. I mean, it's just, it's, it's just good luck. I wish you well. Also in the news, Tim Walls trashing Elon Musk. We talked about that late last week. Now he's pretending it was all a big joke. He wasn't really celebrating the downfall of Tesla stock. That was all just Tim Walsh being super funny. Maybe you missed it. Bernie Sanders and AOC on a socialism tour out west and apparently it's going over big. They're sort of pocket of. The Democratic Party is the only one that's left standing. Unfortunately for them, it's a very, very small slice of their party, but within it, they're stars. And now we get a lecture on journalism. In fact, a whole Broadway show from George Clooney. You know, last year my pals over at the Daily Wire asked me if I would do the voice of this cartoon character called Wendy Burcham in Adam Carolla's cartoon called Mr. Burcham about a shop teacher. So I was, quote, playing the wife of a shop teacher. Didn't make me the actual wife of a shop teacher. Never will. George, just because you play some sort of a journalism expert, an old hand in a play or a movie or otherwise, doesn't make you one. No one gives a shit what you think is wrong with journalism. And his preening and moralism and self righteousness is on full display, apparently not only in this show, but last night on 60 Minutes. So we will get into all of that as well. We have a great show for you today. We've got Stephen A. Smith in our second hour and I will ask him about what's going on in my bracket. Like, I'm sorry, this is the one sports thing I actually do participate in every year. And I love to pick the upsets. I always do, because my whole system is just picking the city with which I have some sort of personal affiliation. So this definitely leads to a lot of potential upsets in my bracket, which some years is great and some years not so great. No, none of the upsets is winning. Have you seen that? Like, none. And now there are some real theories coming out about it. Steven's got one. Clay Travis has got a similar one. He's going to explain to all of us why our brackets may be imploding and also talk about whether he's going to be running for president. But we begin today with my pal Ben Shapiro of the Ben Shapiro show and editor emeritus of the Daily Wire. Now is the time to prioritize gut health. Daily exposure to processed foods, work stress, fluoride and water and environmental toxins can overwhelm the digestive system. The body faces constant attacks. But there is a way to fight back. Just Thrive Probiotic is a clinically proven probiotic and antioxidant with science backed strains designed to keep the gut healthy and balanced. Unlike most probiotics that die in stomach acid, Just Thrive survives, delivering real results without gimmicks. Better digestion, a stronger immune system, increased energy and easier weight management all in one powerful probiotic available in capsules or delicious berry flavored gummies. That's what I take. I like them. There is an option for everyone in the family. For over a decade, Just Thrive has been committed to helping Americans achieve optimal health with trusted science backed solutions. To join the gut health revolution and take control of your health today, visit justthrivehealth.com and save 20% sitewide with promo code. Megan. That's justthrivehealth.com, promo code. Megan. All right, Ben. So, you know, let's just kick it off there. Just because I was Wendy Burcham doesn't make me actually Wendy Burcham and capable of speaking about what it's like to be married to Mr. Burcham or a shop teacher. But George Clooney, I realize this isn't the most important news, but it's interesting. Is now starring on Broadway in Good Night and Good Luck. And I guess at the end of this show he turns around and looks at the audience and offers a lecture on how journalism is imploding, that what's happening with the Trump administration is like McCarthyism, that we need a full, free and fair press to hold this administration's feet to the fire. And this is why I gather he was profiled on 60 Minutes last night and asked about the fourth estate. Here he is in Sat 12.
- [07:18]
Megyn Kelly
When the other three estates fail, when the judiciary and the executive and the legislative branches fail us, the fourth estate has to succeed.
- [07:27]
Stephen A. Smith
Has to succeed.
- [07:29]
Megyn Kelly
As 60 Minutes is here right now on our first day. ABC has just settled a lawsuit with the Trump administration. Journalism and telling truth to power has to be waged like war is waged it doesn't just happen accidentally. You know, it takes people saying we're going to do these stories and you're going to have to come after us. And that's the way it is.
- [07:54]
Stephen A. Smith
So that's him backstage with his Edward R. Murrow like wannabe castmate supporters lecturing all of us, Ben, on how it needs to be done and how, I mean you might, you might say democracy dies in darkness if the journalism people don't do more journalism ing.
- [08:14]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah, it's. He is so tiresome. Just as a human being, he's unbelievably tiresome. And you know, I will acknowledge here that his wife, Amal Clooney literally was complicit in some of the worst propaganda of the last several years. She was involved in the International Court of Justices attempts to actually prosec the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu for war crimes. She was a deep part of that. So she obviously wasn't speaking truth to power. She was part of the power. George Clooney has always been part of the power. This idea that he's ever speaking truth to power is nonsensical. That dude has more. He may have single handedly been responsible for Joe Biden stepping out of the race. You recall that he wrote an op ed in which he basically called for Joe Biden to step out of the race and then the Democratic Party suddenly magically listened. So when he talks about this like he's, he's speaking truths about what is the power inside, for example, his own party that he has ever spoken true like real truth to and not been listened. And he wields outsized powers. Again, this idea that he's like a powerless person who's fighting for the rights of the journalistic establishment. The journalistic establishment is what brought us here. This sort of worship that Clooney and others have for the journalismers is truly amazing given how poor they have been at actually exposing truth to the light of day. He's speaking beyond a point where people have any respect for journalistic establishment at all. I don't know who he's talking about. The American approval of the journalistic establishment Is in the 20% range. So who is he even talking to right now? Dreaming of a time when journalists were these speak truth to power, Fedora wearing, hard boiled, walking around the streets of Chicago reporting who else? Working class, talking about. Yeah, exactly. It's all nonsense.
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Stephen A. Smith
You know, it's, it's amazing to watch him talk about this like it's now is the time. Where was he during COVID You know, you saw last week the New York Times with its aha moment on Covid. Like, you know what we really need to talk about? The fact that this looks like he came from a lab. We. How did, how is it we didn't talk about that for five years because you New York Times were calling people racist who said, it looks like it came from a lab? Like, and then Bill Maher the other night had this like, aha moment of like, geez, it really looks like Fauci may have been kind of a villain and not you. All these leftists are coming around to the truth of things like Covid. That's just one example five years later than the rest of us. Because George Clooney's idea of journalism is to just tow the party line when it helps the left and say what needs to be said and bury what needs to be said as so long as it will hurt the right.
- [10:48]
Ben Shapiro
I mean, I'm just wondering, who are these journalists who aren't covering the Trump administration? They're like, who are they? It'd be great for him to call them out, right? Who are these journalists who are being so nice to the, to the Trump administration all the way through? And when he talks about settlements that these various outlets are making with President Trump, that's because they literally engaged in slander and libel of President Trump and they thought that they were going to lose a big settlement to him. It's not because they're trying to buy access to the presidents of the United States by, by paying him money. And if he's going to make that actual argument, then probably you just make that argument overtly as opposed to this sort of break the fourth wall. First of all, that must be terrible. That must be death in the theater. You're there to watch. Good night and good luck. And suddenly the actor turns to you and starts lecturing you, breaking the fourth wall, about modern politics. How obnoxious he is just as a human.
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Stephen A. Smith
Yeah. So here he is going on. This is to 60 last night about. You mentioned his op ed in the New York Times on Joe Biden and why he did it. Such a selfless, brave, brave act. Ben. Here he was.
- [11:47]
Megyn Kelly
I'll make it kind of easy. I was raised to tell the truth. I had seen the president up close for this fundraiser, and I was surprised. And so I feel as if there was a lot of profiles and cowardice in my party through all of that. And I was not proud of that. And I also believed I had to tell the truth.
- [12:12]
Stephen A. Smith
That right there is such a lie. It's such a lie. Ben, let me just give you the dates. Okay? That fundraiser where he saw Biden almost falling off the stage where Obama came out to grab him was June 15. The debate was June 27. So two weeks passed, he said nothing. Then you and I both watched that debate, just like all of our listeners and viewers did, and saw the then sitting president completely implode. And it was very clear he had no chance of going forward. And it wasn't until July 10, almost a month after he attended the fundraiser with him, that George Clooney finally wrote that op ed after it became clear that Joe Biden wasn't stepping down. He's such a liar that he just encountered him at the debate and knew what he had to do.
- [12:58]
Ben Shapiro
It's especially crap because you remember we all covered Obama and Biden at that particular event. And that was the footage where Obama literally guided Biden off the stage by the arm. And we all commented on it at the time. We're like, this guy looks like he doesn't know where he is on the stage. It looks like he's being physically guided by the former President of the United States off the stage. That was when the White House started retailing the line that these were all cheap fakes, right? That actually Biden knew exactly where he was and was doing handsprings on the stage. And we had sort of cut out of context, all of that. Clooney was there. Clooney was a co sponsor of that event. And as you say, it's not just that he said nothing, it's that he was there and said nothing for weeks until it became perfectly obvious that Joe Biden was going to absolutely get clobbered by Trump in November. And at that point, that's when he stood. Now, it would have been something if after that event, like the day after he had said, yeah, I saw him on stage, he looked terrible and we really need to get rid of him. Even that would have been late because the reality is that George Clooney has had access to Joe Biden for several years at this point, and Biden's been ailing. But as you say, the timeline doesn't match up. And again, I don't know why Democrats insist on throwing actors out there to pretend that they are the role that they are playing.
- [14:03]
Stephen A. Smith
Right?
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Ben Shapiro
George Clooney is not a doctor because he was on er. And George Clooney is not a journalist because he's in Good Night and Good Luck.
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Stephen A. Smith
And he. And because he was in One Fine Day With Michelle Pfeiffer back, back in 1996, you were still in your cradle. But they start. I love this movie because I was young, like kind of always aspiring journalist back then. I was, I was a practicing lawyer, but I had been told in high school I should be a journalist. Was always in the back of my head. And so I love this movie because she's this, you know, up and comer. And he worked, I think, for the New York Daily News or something like that. But anyway, it was like the two of them at the height of their fame, that doesn't make him an actual journalist. And so he's like, who is it? Is it Tom Cruise who really. Who tried to be a Navy SEAL even though he was too old to be a Navy SEAL and put himself through SEAL training? It's like, you can try to go through the SEAL training. That's fine if you want to, like, see if you can do it. But Tom Cruise didn't come out actually believing he was a Navy seal. He doesn't think he can flight fighter jets because of Top Gun Only George Clooney feels like he's in the position to lecture all of us on how it's done, how it ought to be done, after having been silent, you know, conspicuously silent, for the last four years. Where's his lecture to the New York Times on how to cover brain infirmities? Right. Like right now he's upset. He's upset about the press. And to your point, the press is not falling down on the job in trying to cover Trump negatively. They're falling down on the job in plenty of other ways. Only in George Clooney's world does he have to come out now and lecture the press on how important they are. More than now, more than ever. The dirty little secret here, however, is he speaks for all of them. You know, the left wing press. And by that I mean the press is like, right on, you know, like they're going to sleep at night. Like, he's. He's right. It's so hard. We've. Now more than ever, I'm needed.
- [15:54]
Ben Shapiro
It is a very bizarre relationship that these folks have with Hollywood, where they still yearn after Martin Sheen because he once played the president on tv and now George Clooney is their moral leader when it comes to. When it comes to journalism. How about you actually provide us examples of people in the field that you're talking about who you think are really good at this and use those people as the examples as opposed to the actor who's Playing the thing to lecture you about the thing. But only when President Trump is president. He underwent a four year kind of missing inaction period where suddenly apparently journalism was just fine. Like several years there, journalism was totally fine, except on the one issue where he decided he had to sound off to kind of throw Joe Biden off the back of the bus. But apparently journalism was fine covering the Biden administration until precisely the moment he decided it wasn't. It's pretty selective.
- [16:38]
Stephen A. Smith
So I was, I'm just looking for this text because my friend sent this to me at our school, you know, we fled our New York City schools because they were so insanely woke. It was crazy and annoying. And now we're out here in Connecticut where we've done, no question better. But especially at our daughter's school, they're more woke than I would like. And you've got, you know, George Clooney out there with his selective moments on, you know, journalism and when he needs to speak up. And our school, this is my daughter's not in the fourth grade, but somebody who's got a child in the fourth grade sent me this list. The girls were supposed to, I think, write, do a project about some famous women and they gave them some suggestions on like women they might consider. And I'll give you the. Hold on a second. Where is it the journalists that were that were suggested newscasters slash journalists. The only one you. There's only two, one's older who nobody knows. Katie Couric. That's who they think these girls should hold up and write an. Now it's like what exactly you're going to pull from Katie Couric? Are we going to pull her gun documentary which was totally fair and balanced and had her acting in the midst of it. Is that are we going to talk about that when we do the Katie Couric honor? And then we get to okay, politicians. Okay, you've got Kamala Harris, Rachel Levine. This is at my school. Rachel Levine as a politician that might want to be honored by at an all girls school. As for this, like women's event, Stacey Abrams, AOC oh my God. And then we get to the Supreme Court. And on the Supreme Court, here's one of the one. Okay, so they did get Sandra Day O'Connor. O'Connor on there. Appreciate that. There was one. And the others they suggest these girls might honor include Sonia Sotomayor, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Ketanji Brown Jackson. So at least we have that one sort of moderate Republican judge on there. Ben. But the whole it's all part of the same point, right? Like, this is the leftist view of, like, what? Fair and balanced. Looks like George Clinton speaks up now that Trump's back in office. You've got the school saying, let's, let's. Yeah, There's Sandra Day O'Connor. Where's Amy Coney Barrett? How is she not on there?
- [19:03]
Ben Shapiro
Right?
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Stephen A. Smith
It's like, this is how the left operates.
- [19:05]
Ben Shapiro
Megan, this isn't my point where I'm gonna lecture you about where you're sending your kids to school. But we're friends and you totally should not be sending your kids to this school. Like, this is bad.
- [19:13]
Stephen A. Smith
I already moved them once. I'm not moving them again. I'm just gonna get, get on the school's back.
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Ben Shapiro
Okay, that, that's fine. But, but you need to be on the school board and then you need to be on the list of journalists, obviously. And if they're talking about female journalists, I don't need that.
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Stephen A. Smith
Well, I do need some normal person, even like Diane Sawyer.
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Megyn Kelly
Right.
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Stephen A. Smith
Like, put her on there, who wasn't at least like, harshly partisan for all of her career and did mostly like down the middle type pieces. But Katie Cour.
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Ben Shapiro
Connecticut is not Florida. Connecticut is not Florida. Down here, our list is like, only right wingers.
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Stephen A. Smith
So, yes, great.
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Ben Shapiro
It's great, great.
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Stephen A. Smith
But Katie K. That's what they want. The school wants them. Like louding Katie Couric celebrating Katanji Brown Jackson and looking at Rachel Levine and AOC and Stacy Abrams as politicians to honor. It's just, it's like outrageous. And it's everywhere. It's everywhere. And it's part. It's all connected, frankly, to why, as I said at the top of the show, the left is imploding. Why they have no strong base of support other than, not coincidentally, who White college educated women. That's it. That's some black women too. But for the most part, it's white college educated women who are still Democrats 100%.
- [20:24]
Ben Shapiro
And this is why I actually think that the Bernie Sanders movement, which is predominant among that group of people, and also he's broadening out. I think that I did my show on this today. I really think that the AOC presidential candidacy that we're all laughing at and scoffing at, I think that we're laughing and scoffing at that a little early. I'm old enough to remember 2007 when people were laughing and scoffing at Barack Obama and suggesting Hillary was definitely going to be the nominee and when Republicans were actually crossing Party lines to vote in primaries in favor of Obama because they wanted to throw a scare into Hillary Clinton. I remember saying that Obama was the actual scary one. I think that actually the Bernie AOC movement is something that really needs to be watched here. Not because the Democrats are in any position of strength, but my greatest fear for the Trump administration is that if there's an economic downturn, what you're gonna get is a turn to wild left wing populism. And Bernie is consolidating that crowd really quickly. And bringing AOC on stage to tap her on the shoulder is obviously a tactic. So, you know, I think that that is a very real thing. And she, she is trying to knit together whatever is left of the Democratic coalition, right, the white college educated women. She's trying to knit together minorities. She's trying to knit together what she thinks are going to be blue collar, blue collar workers with her sort of anti rich, you know, eat the rich appeal. That I think is the next move for the Democratic Party, actually, if you're gaming out where they go after this.
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Stephen A. Smith
So you think that she could have mass appeal. I mean, right now she's pulling it, I think, 5% or under in the national polls of who should be the Democratic nominee amongst Democrats, Kamala Harris is some 36%. She's at the top. AOC does have name recognition, but is nowhere near the top. She's at the bottom. But you think this person who is far, far left in her politics, notwithstanding her green New Deal, where she wants to get rid of hamburgers, actually has a shot?
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Ben Shapiro
I think that she's playing for an economic downturn. And if there's an economic downturn, I think anybody has a shot. I mean, if you look at that primary poll among Democrats, Yeah, Kamala's at 36% because you just ran. But the next closest person is Buttigieg at 10. Right. So now you're talking about a scrum.
- [22:24]
Megyn Kelly
Right?
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Ben Shapiro
It's like Buttigieg at 10, Walls at 5, AOC at 5. And so anybody there really sort of has a shot. And if you're talking about a built in audience, remember Bernie almost won the nomination in 2020 over Joe Biden. So if he takes her on the road and he gives her his donor list and he sort of taps her on the shoulder, she's going to start with a lot of systemic advantage. She has high name recognition, she's very good on television. I don't think she's particularly intelligent or has anything interesting to say. But that doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for running for president these days at all. So, yeah, I think she's more formidable than currently advertised, and she may be too far left for the American people. I certainly think that she is. I think the entire Democratic Party is. But economic downturns have peculiar effects, which is why I'm very much focused on, like, the Trump administration needs to focus first more than anything else. Right. They've did a great job on the border. They've already turned the border from the number one issue into, like, the number five issue because they shut down all illegal immigration at the border already. They need to be spending their time ensuring that we do not suffer an economic downturn. Because if there's an economic downturn as. As high as I think people are on the right side of the aisle about our political prospects, things turn very quickly in the United States.
- [23:29]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay? So I want to spend some time on Bernie and AOC because they go out there, they get, you know, supposedly they get these record crowds. There are questions about whether this is an Astroturf crowd or, you know, this is just like the same group of protesters that shows up at all of these things, or supporters, depending on what the daily causes or not. But let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say even though neither one is running for anything right now, it was organic and people just wanted to hear two Democrat socialists get up there and talk about making America more socialist. He's out there. They're both out there right now in some way trying to moderate their messages. Right. He gave an interview in which he was asked, what's the one thing that Trump has done well, and here's what he said.
- [24:11]
Ben Shapiro
Is there anything that you think Trump has done?
- [24:13]
Stephen A. Smith
Right.
- [24:14]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. I mean, I think cracking down on fentanyl, making sure our borders are stronger. Look, nobody thinks illegal immigration is appropriate. And I happen to think we need comprehensive immigration reform, but I don't think that it's appropriate for people to be coming across the border illegally. He wants to deport 20 million people who are in this country who are undocumented. Well, you do that, you destroy the entire country. Because I got news for you.
- [24:42]
Stephen A. Smith
Trump's billionaire friends are not going to.
- [24:44]
Megyn Kelly
Pick the crops in California that feed us. They're not going to work in meat packing houses. That's what undocumented people are doing. So we need a variety of programs, guest worker programs, but mostly comprehensive immigration reform.
- [24:58]
Ben Shapiro
But, you know, illegal immigration exploded under.
- [25:01]
Stephen A. Smith
Biden, and nothing was really done until his last year in office when he was.
- [25:05]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, should have done much better. No argument.
- [25:08]
Stephen A. Smith
Should have done much better. He now he's, I guess he wants a closed border now. Tell that to The Bernie of 2019, when he was running for office in the primary and everybody was asked if they wanted to crack down on illegal immigration at the border. He didn't. He didn't. He actually, he raised his hand saying he wanted to decriminalize the border. To decriminalize it, Ben. And has been, he's been all over the board, frankly, on this, because at some points he's like, the Koch brothers are the ones who want open borders. That would be a disaster. But then he's saying we should decriminalize border crossings and which is basically a red carpet invitation. So. But what he wants ABC News and Jonathan Carl to think is he's pro Trump's moves at the border, even though he called the first Trump administration wall ridiculous. He thought Trump's policies were way too tough, that he was cracking down too much on. He wanted to end the deportations. I mean, so that's Bernie standby. And then here is aoc, who is the queen of pronouns and all the trans nonsense. She hasn't seen a trans policy she doesn't support. She's dying to get boys into girls sports. And here she is. See if you can hear the change in her messaging on that issue at one of these rallies. And they will throw out every label and judgment and cultural debate in the book to keep us distressed, distracted.
- [26:32]
Megyn Kelly
Folks, this is what the focus on.
- [26:35]
Stephen A. Smith
Trans kids is all about.
- [26:38]
Megyn Kelly
Come on.
- [26:39]
Stephen A. Smith
1%, 1% of the entire population. If people want to have conversations about that, take it to the ncaa. It doesn't need to be on the floor of the United States Congress.
- [26:51]
Ben Shapiro
We need to be taxing the rich.
- [26:53]
Megyn Kelly
On the floor of the United States Congress. We need to be establishing guaranteed health.
- [26:57]
Stephen A. Smith
Care on the floor of the United States Congress, not erasing American history on.
- [27:03]
Megyn Kelly
The floor of the United States Congress. We need to be passing a living.
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Stephen A. Smith
Wage on the floor of the United States Congress. She, she thinks she's a preacher. She sometimes slips into that way of speaking. Right? But there she is. She, she just wants to table boys and girls sports. Just let the NCAA deal with it. Ben.
- [27:22]
Ben Shapiro
Well, again, what they're doing is shockingly smart. So, Bernie, I mean, I say that because I think that they have a combined IQ of a kumquat. But Bernie Sanders, who is a lifelong leech on the ass of American society and has switched his tune with regards to illegal immigration many times. He used to actually be very closed border, because he used to acknowledge a reality which is that if you have socialist redistribution in a country, you can't have an open border. That's just a giant magnet for everybody to come in and take government benefits. So he actually used to be in favor of a much more closed border, and now he's reverting back to that stance, which of course is a much more popular stance. You see her doing what Democrats are now attempting to do, which is they don't want to reverse themselves completely the way that Gavin Newsom tried to in order to. In order to get away from the trans issue. Instead they're saying, why are we even talking about this? Who even brought this up? The answer is you brought this up. You made this a center point of your actual worldview. But you can see her trying to put that off to the side and go back to the economic populist message. And this is why I say, I think that the Democrats are gambling on one thing and one thing only, and that's an economic downturn. They are figuring that if there's an economic downturn, that their message of oligarchy is gonna be effective. This is why they're also training their guns at Elon as opposed to Trump. If they train their guns at Trump, Trump is Teflon. As I've said since 2016, Donald Trump is a mud monster. And if you throw more mud at him, he just becomes more of a mud monster. But if they train their guns on Elon, they understand Elon is not vulnerable in the same way. He's not on the public dime. He obviously is the richest person in the world. He doesn't really seem to care what people think. But if they can tie together the idea that Elon and Trump are part of a corrupt oligarchy together who are manipulating American economics and impoverishing the poor, and then if the economy goes south, then they can have a sort of horseshoe theory thing happen with sort of the populist right, and they can hope for enough crossover to actually be competitive in a national election. I think. I think they're pretty openly playing for a recession right now. I think, again, I don't think it's stupid. I think the tactic itself is smart, even if the messengers are not particularly bright.
- [29:14]
Stephen A. Smith
I just don't think they should be betting on it because Trump, while he's saying, would have some short term pain, hopefully for longer term gain, as he, you know, imposes these tariffs and so on. He's just never going to let it get to the point where somebody has a political advantage over him. That's just not how Trump operates. If he, right, if he actually sees trouble for himself or his successor or the Republicans on a sustained recession like economy, he'll, he'll fix it. He'll, he'll let up on the tariffs. He's never going to give them that advantage. Here's the sound. Bite it. We were looking for on Bernie Sanders. So now he's suddenly pro Trump's border behavior. Yeah, you know, it was, was well overdue. We needed to crack down in the border. I mean, it's amazing that he said that to John Carl and here he was. We pulled this, this is actually Western lensman who's on X. He put together this montage, a good one. And then our pal over at Real Clear Politics, Tom Bevin, called attention to it too. Bernie's reversal here he was not too long ago sounding very different under Trump. 1.0 sat 41.
- [30:10]
Megyn Kelly
Look, I think that the wall is an absurd idea. I think it's a waste of money.
- [30:16]
Stephen A. Smith
I think it just fans Trump's illusions.
- [30:20]
Megyn Kelly
America cannot simply build walls.
- [30:24]
Stephen A. Smith
We look foolish to the rest of.
- [30:27]
Megyn Kelly
The world, look foolish to Mexico.
- [30:29]
Ben Shapiro
So we are going to end the.
- [30:31]
Megyn Kelly
ICE raids which are terrorizing communities all across this country. We are going to impose a moratorium on deportations.
- [30:42]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay, so we no wall. We're going to end the ICE raids and we're not going to deport any people. And you saw him at that presidential debate saying he wants to decriminalize border crossings, but now he's super in favor of what Trump is doing at the border. Long overdue. These guys are such hypocrites. It's absolutely infuriating. Okay, so there is a lot to talk about with the Democrat party, but I just want to, I just want to, while we're sort of on this point, leap to the deportations and what Trump is doing. Because Trump, while he's in the midst of this massive, massive lawfare campaign trying to stop his agenda and Democrat appointed judges who are only too happy to help, he is winning with some of these executive orders that are targeting more in the private sector. And I just want to get your thoughts on this balance. So he's really getting the crackdown from these immigration, pro immigration groups on things like his attempt to deport Venezuelan gang members. They're the left, really would love for them to stay. They want us to believe that they're all really sweet and just wanted to be here and work at the neighboring grocery store. Okay. They're not the ones who kill Lake and Riley and Jocelyn Nungari, they don't want to talk about that. So that's getting stopped, or at least paused by lawfare and judges like this Boasberg in the D.C. circuit. Okay, then there's Trump issuing these executive orders on Maine when it comes to boys and girls sports. And Maine is caving already. It did at the college level. We still have to get a cave at K through 12. And Trump is at the point where he's like, great, thank you for caving. Now I want my explicit apology from the governor, which is amazing. You're still not getting your money unless I get my apology and a promise that you'll do it everywhere. He's amazing. Okay, so that's that. Then there's Columbia University, where he went in and said, this is a hotbed of anti Semitism. You guys are out of control. You need to not let people wear these masks all over campus because they hide behind them. You need us to take over your weird department on Middle east studies, which seems to be like the place you go to learn jihad. And we need to take that over and a bunch of other things. And almost entirely Columbia just caved because it wants his $400 million back from the feds. And then there's what he's doing to these law firms. So he decides to target a couple of law firms, including Paul Weiss, who hired that one guy who wanted to prosecute Trump when he worked for Alvin Bragg. It was like his. A mission of his. And Trump was like, you know what? It's a Democrat law firm. They tried to target me, or they at least rewarded somebody who tried to target me. And there's going to be all sorts of punishments to this law firm. Like, I don't think what the federal. Federal government wants to be in business with them, which is his prerogative. And it took about two minutes for them to completely cave on everything Trump wanted. They went in there with a bouquet of roses and then some. You know, he only wanted roses, but they brought chocolates and diamonds and were on the knee begging him to let out. So Trump is. He's having success in these tactics, Ben. But I wonder what you make of the overall strategy and the successes and the not. Not losses so far, but the thwarting that we're seeing judicially.
- [33:45]
Ben Shapiro
I mean, I think that the thwarting judicially isn't going to matter until we get to the Supreme Court level. So you're seeing all the Democrats complain it's a constitutional crisis. No, it's not a constitutional crisis until you get to the point where the Supreme Court issues an order and then the executive branch just ignores the Supreme Court order. Like maybe if they said that you're not allowed to unilaterally relieve student loan debt and then, you know, the administration just went ahead and tried to do it anyway, which happened like two years ago. But it's. But I think that the real question here for the Supreme Court is was and will be what restrictions are they going to put on district court judges and the district court judge's ability to issue these nationwide temporary restraining orders on the basis of I'm a judge in Texas and now the entire country is now going to be governed by the thing that I say about nationwide order from the White House. The fact that the Supreme Court turned that down a few weeks ago was a huge mistake in my opinion. And Justice Roberts kind of signing into chat to rip on President Trump for ripping on district court judges. Justice Roberts, I'm one of the few people on the right who objected to Justice Roberts back in 2005 when he was nominated by George W. Bush. I didn't think he was going to be a good pick. And that was one of my predictions. I've made many predictions in my career that have been bad. That one was actually quite good. I think Justice Roberts has been a bit of a disaster as chief justice of the Supreme Court. And I think that his kind of notion that he restores the legitimacy of the court by yelling at President Trump is really stupid. If he wants to restore the legitimacy of the court, then the court needs to draw very clear lines as to what district court judge judges can and cannot do. And that is a thing that they absolutely have not done. I mean, they're leaving it up to these district court judges to do everything from mandate that the military allow trans members in to turning flights around in the middle of the air over international waters. And can they do that? Can they not do it? We don't know the answer. And so this idea that Trump is sort of redefining what the judiciary can and cannot do, that's not true. The judicial, the low level judges are redefining their own jurisdiction and then the Supreme Court hasn't weighed in yet. So I think that that is a narrative battle that Trump is not losing. And I think certainly forcing Democrats to defend Trendro Agua members being in the United States, these Venezuelan gang members in the like, that's a narrative win. If you're the person on the side of the gang members that that's A pretty obvious fail. The Democrats keep being forced into the 20% position in every 80, 20 fight. So for sure there, when it comes to the private sector and pressure that he's putting on particular places. So Columbia University is in violation of the Civil Rights Act. I mean, the thing that the Trump administration is saying to Columbia is you have a set of standards that apply to black students, gay students, every other, every other minority student, and it applies to Jews, too, under the Civil Rights Act. You may not like the Civil Rights Act. You may think that it's over in overreach. I've actually made that case myself in the past. But if those laws apply, if these anti discrimination laws apply, they apply across the board. And that means you can't just allow gigantic harassment conferences against Jews in the middle of your campus where Jews are being barred from getting to class or anything like that. Or you lose your federal money. And Columbia, of course, caves to that, as Columbia should. That, I think, again, is going to be popular with the American people and is well within the boundaries of the law. What he's doing with Paul Weiss, I mean, Paul Weiss, they're not donating services specifically, I guess, what. They pledged to donate something like $40 million in pro bono, pro bono hours to, I think, White House Governmental Affairs. It's not to Trump personally. It's the White House Governmental affairs office or something like that. I think people, number one, need to understand that $40 million of billable hours at Paul Weiss, that's like two partners for three days. The amount of money that these partners charge for pro bono is, like, insane. And they don't, they don't charge it, but that's what they rack up. And they're charging 3, $4,000 an hour in many of these cases. And so you're not talking about, you know, endless amounts of hours here. It's a good kind of win for President Trump on a. On a narrative level. And the outsized, oh, my God, how could he be leveraging people? I think the thing that President Trump is doing that no other Republican in my lifetime has done, is he's making the left play by their own rules. The left does this kind of stuff all the time. And I'm old enough to remember when Barack Obama called in the heads of every major car company in America in 2009 and basically said that I'm the only thing, he actually said, I'm the person standing between you and the pitchforks. And then he leveraged concessions out of them. This sort of thing happens all the time, but only from Democrats and President Trump is doing. And this is why I think people are freaking out. Is he saying, you built this system, you gave all these powers to the executive branch and now I'm going to use all the powers that you built against the thing that you want. And now you're all freaking out, okay, well here's what we could do. If you don't like any of this, why don't we make a deal where we minimize the powers of the executive branch via the Constitution or via the.
- [38:14]
Stephen A. Smith
Or via the legislation on the doj. And think of all the DOJ investigations they sicced on various police departments and fire departments across this nation saying you don't have enough black people, you don't have enough brown people. We're going to investigate you. You handled this one case in a way that we didn't like. And therefore you're going to have to run every decision by the Department of Justice for the next 10 years or longer that there wasn't a peep out of these leftists now complaining about that, that was fine. But if it's the DOJ or some other federal government looking at Maine saying, you know what, we, we may see a Title 9 violation here or we may pull your funding from the Department of Agriculture because you're so out of line when it comes to the funding that we're giving you and you're using it to let boys play in girls sports. Now it's a constitutional crisis. Now we have an autocrat.
- [38:58]
Ben Shapiro
What makes Trump historic is that for my entire lifetime, the basic notion from conservatives is that the growth of government was a one way ratchet, that all the powers that were accruing in the executive branch were just going to continue to accrue, but only to the benefit of the left. And then a right winger might get in at a certain point, may get a George W. Bush, and he would kind of just go slower, right? The ratchet would continue to move in the left wing direction, but slower. Trump is coming in and he's saying, listen, you gave me all these powers and you meant these powers for Joe Biden or for Barack Obama, but guess what, I'm the guy who's here and I'm going to use every bit of power that you gave me and I'm going to push as hard as I possibly can. And again, he's not saying he's not going to listen to the judiciary. He's never said that. Actually, a lot of people attribute that to him, but he's never actually said it. And people are caterwauling and so the proper answer to all of this should be, okay, well, if you don't like what the President is now capable of doing, maybe you shouldn't have built that machine in the first place where you centralized all power in an administrative bureaucracy. But instead, the complaint is that Donald Trump is a tyrant. They're. The thing they should be objecting to is the power itself. The thing they're objecting to is his use of the power. But they'd perfectly, perfectly happy if it were Kamala Harris using that exact same power in ways that they like.
- [40:06]
Stephen A. Smith
That's exactly right. It's, it's amazing to see them, you know, flout an executive order on Title 9. They were only too happy to see Joe Biden's executive orders around Title 9 and his rule changes. When it came to Title 9, they loved that. Yeah, do it, do it right now. Like, without anybody speaking up for girls sports. But now that Trump has said, you know what, I disagree with that. That was poorly hand. And by the way, Biden's executive order, his, his changes to Title 9 had already been ruled invalid. So the Title 9, as it was original, originally written, stands. And so when Trump came in there, he just clarified it by saying, to be clear, Title IX does not allow boys to play in girls sports. But the governor of Maine decided she will overrule Title 9. She's going to disregard what it says by statute and what Trump says it says. And so he's cracking down on her. And so, yeah, she's going to lose her money at her public universities, which is what's happening. And she bend on K through 12. And she will apologize. She will. Because just like Columbia, she wants her money more than she wants to maintain the integrity of her word. She had her girl boss moment with Trump in the White House. She got all of her newspaper covers and magazine covers. And now it's going to go down the toilet or there's a lot more that we have to get through. And I don't have that much time with you, so I've got to keep moving. I've got to, I've got to move forward. Okay, can we spend one minute on Snow White and how it totally imploded at the box office this weekend? It was so delicious. The thing they paid. They spent 170 million to make the thing, and it had the lowest opening under 50 million of any of these live action Disney remakes that they've ever had. Even the one that was their worst, Dumbo did better than this has done. And they postponed the release of this thing, Ben, for a year because it's their star. Rachel Zegler was so unlikable, told all Trump supporters that they could fuck off. Excuse me, but she did. That was just November. They didn't even know she was going to do that one. Said she hated Snow White, mocked the fact that there was a prince and that she falls in love as opposed to leaning into her own power. We could go on. It didn't work. Your thoughts?
- [42:05]
Ben Shapiro
I mean, the most predictable fail of all time. And you forget, I think the funniest thing, which was that release of the original picture of the Dwarves who are played by all tall people and one actual dwarf. And then everybody laughed at it so hard that they went back to the drawing board and they came up with these bizarre, uncanny Valley Dwarves who are about as creepy as anything has ever been on screen. And then they got rid of two of the original songs from the originally fantastic score and replaced it by a couple of generic pop songs by Pasek and Paul. And they cast as Snow White, Rachel Zegler. And they cast as the evil queen who's supposed to be not as fair as Snow White, Gal Gadot, who is by any objective metric, significantly more beautiful than Rachel Zegler. I mean, there's just.
- [42:48]
Stephen A. Smith
She's noted for being one of the most beautiful people on earth.
- [42:51]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah, it's ridiculous on its. And then you had Rachel Zegler, who's sniping at Gal Gadot for the great crime of Gal Gadot being Israeli. Right. She was putting out tweets about free Palestine and all this kind of stuff. Like, first of all, a few lessons for Disney. Stop. Number one, stop cannibalizing all your old ip like it's really bad. It's really bad business. Number two, please stop changing all of the historic plots which actually have meaning to generations of people, to instead become generic woke story about how woman leads revolutionary uprising and she don't need no man. Because guess what? Nobody grew up with that crap and nobody's all that interested in it. I mean, again, you're a very successful woman. My wife is a doctor. I have no problem with this, with women in the workplace. But this idea that women don't need men is ridiculous on its face. It's terrible for society. It's very good for people to learn that women need men and also that many men need women. I don't know why this fell out of fashion. And we're not allowed to just say that sort of stuff anymore, but it actually happens to be the truth. And then beyond that, all the. All these studios have to stop letting their actors loose. I mean, honestly, just shut your actors up. During the golden age of Hollywood, one of the reasons it actually is a thing, One of the reasons you were able to generate actual movie stars is because the only time you saw the movie star was on the screen. It's, I think, one of the things about Tom Cruise that actually makes him a movie star. You never see him anymore unless he actually is on the screen. There was a period where he went through a real rough patch where he was jumping on couches with Oprah and all this, and he became very unliked and his movies really sank at the box office because of it. And he recognized that, and he went back behind kind of the screen of mystery. And now you only see Tom Cruise when he's in Top Maverick. And so you want to see Tom Cruise, who wants to see Rachel Zegler in anything. You see her everywhere, and every time you see her, she's being obnoxious. And so these studios really ought to go to their stars and they ought to stop trotting them out to say dumb political nonsense before releasing a kids flick.
- [44:35]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes, exactly right. Every time she speaks, she gets less likable. There's some clip of her on the Internet in her Snow White outfit saying, every hour, I am in the outfit of Snow White, wearing the dress all 18 hours. I deserve to be paid for every single one. Oh, really? Are you. Are you having trouble paying your bills, Rachel, Did Steven Spielberg not pay you for your role in west side Story? Did Disney fail to give you a healthy paycheck for, like, Cry me a river? She's just exactly everything that we can't stand about that front edge of Gen Z. We're going to be saved by the back end of that generation. As the mother of three of them, I can speak to that. Okay, now, big news out of the Daily Wire on two fronts. First of all, you made news by calling for Trump to pardon Derek Chauvin. And this has led to a bunch of people saying, no, that's not a good idea, including our next guest, even a Smith who doesn't like it. But. But Jason Whitlock, who's over at, you know, he's got his own show and he doesn't like it for an interesting reason. He's at the Blaze and we, we teed it up, and then you'll. You'll tell us why it's a good idea. Here he is.
- [45:39]
Megyn Kelly
I don't want Derek to have to take one for the team forever.
- [45:44]
Stephen A. Smith
I don't want that.
- [45:46]
Megyn Kelly
I just think there's a much harder.
- [45:49]
Stephen A. Smith
Road for freedom for Derek Chauvin that.
- [45:53]
Megyn Kelly
Has to be traveled.
- [45:55]
Stephen A. Smith
And so if, again, if they were.
- [45:58]
Megyn Kelly
Out, like, hey, we're raising money for Derek Chauvin's defense team, I'm all for that. That a pardon almost in, even as bogus as I think the trial was, I think it would be inappropriate. I think a federal pardon, though, at this point would sidetrack so much that.
- [46:20]
Stephen A. Smith
Needs to transpire under the Trump administration, and I think it would.
- [46:25]
Megyn Kelly
The inroads that Trump has made with black voters, I think it would be destroyed. And this is all anybody would talk about is Trump and Derek Chauvin. And look how racist Trump is. This is like the Central Park Five all over again.
- [46:42]
Stephen A. Smith
That last point's a really interesting one, Ben. Take it from there. Yeah.
- [46:45]
Ben Shapiro
So, I mean, on the pragmatic level, I don't think that that's a terrible argument. I think that on a moral level, if you're going to build a groundswell for the pardon of a person who I believe to be in jail and innocent, then you actually start that groundswell somewhere. And so actually opening the door to that conversation is something that I'm trying to do@pardonederric.com by the way, we are working with their legal team. So this idea that the legal team is not interested in this or that they're against it or anything, that's not true. I mean, the actual fact of the matter is that if you were to receive a pardon on the federal charges, you'd almost certainly serve less time in jail than he is currently going to serve, because you get certain time off under the Minnesota state statute that you wouldn't get under the federal statute. But as far as the sort of pragmatic argument, my view of that is that that's President Trump's decision. And I totally understand if he doesn't want to do that until, say, after he is. After the next election. But it takes a groundswell of support for a thing to happen, and that groundswell needs to start building somewhere. The argument that Jason isn't making there, which obviously I think he agrees with, my argument is that Chauvin is actually in jail unjustly. That, to me, is the bigger, you know, is. Is Chauvin in jail unjustly? If he's in jail unjustly, then we should all be saying that he should receive a pardon. And then if the. Again, I'm not saying that he has to be pardoned today, I'm not in Trump's chair and I'm not his chief political advisor nor is that my job. My job is to speak up where I think an injustice is being done. In the case of Chauvin, it certainly is an injustice being done.
- [48:07]
Stephen A. Smith
He definitely did not get a fair trial and there is zero doubt of that. I mean the in depth documentary done by Alpha News out in Minnesota will convince anybody of that. If you take a look at that thing, it's just absolutely horrifying what they to pressure their way into a guilty verdict. Okay. And then last but not least, the, the so called God king of the Daily Wire. Jeremy Boreing, who's been on this podcast many times, who is your partner in founding the Daily Wire, is no longer co CEO along with Caleb, who is his, you know, co CEO for years and now he's going to be doing something else. So there's all sorts of chatter about this online. Ben, People's tongues are wagging. People who used to work for the Daily Wire suggesting this was a terrible implosion and that Jeremy was impossible to work for, etceter. What is the truth?
- [48:54]
Ben Shapiro
I mean the truth is that Jeremy stepped down to pursue things like Pendragon, which is the single biggest I think entertainment offering ever put forward on the right side of the aisle, like ever by a long stretch people are going to be blowing away.
- [49:06]
Stephen A. Smith
It's like a Game of Thrones series that you guys.
- [49:08]
Ben Shapiro
It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Yeah. I mean it's like high fantasy, Arthurian legend, seven episodes at very high cost. I mean it is a major massive project and he has to go and he has to edit that. We have to figure out exactly how we're going to market that. We have other creative projects that Jeremy is going to work on that Jeremy wants to work on and that Jeremy is involved with. And frankly, the day to day management of a very large and growing company was not, I think in his view, consilient with that mission, which is for him to do more creative projects to do more on the entertainment side. Frankly, I think for Jeremy that's where a lot of his heart is as well. And so he wanted to put more focus in that as we mature as a company. As far as all of these sort of bizarre rumors that were in oh, we're in serious trouble. Oh no, everything is, yeah, bullshit. I mean as somebody who looks at the balance sheet, I can tell you that is certainly not the case. And we are, we are healthy, we are growing, we are thriving and we have extremely big moves that we Are looking forward to making this year.
- [50:04]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay, I have just enough time for my last thing. Spring break is full of idiots. And you'll see why I'm showing this to you. Watch. Who did the colonists fight in the Revolutionary War? Oh, God. In the Revolutionary war, it was. Oh, I don't know if this is right. I mean, it sounds so stupid.
- [50:22]
Megyn Kelly
Was it the Spanish?
- [50:22]
Stephen A. Smith
What shape is the U. S. Pentagon building?
- [50:28]
Megyn Kelly
Isn't it just a square?
- [50:29]
Stephen A. Smith
How many U. S. Senators are there? How many amendments are in the Bill of Rights?
- [50:38]
Megyn Kelly
There's a lot. I know, I know.
- [50:40]
Stephen A. Smith
17. Who won the Civil War?
- [50:43]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, shoot.
- [50:43]
Stephen A. Smith
It's east or west, right? Well, it's the Civil War, so it's the civilians versus whoever was in power. How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
- [50:51]
Megyn Kelly
Justices. So, like, when you say that, like, you mean like the FBI?
- [50:56]
Stephen A. Smith
Oh, God. Who's in charge of the executive branch? Why did you. I don't know. Who did the colonists fight in the Revolutionary War?
- [51:17]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, no, I can't. I can't think of. No, the Jews.
- [51:21]
Stephen A. Smith
How many U.S. senators are in the U.S. government? Four.
- [51:25]
Megyn Kelly
Four.
- [51:26]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay. Five.
- [51:30]
Megyn Kelly
Three.
- [51:30]
Stephen A. Smith
How many U.S. senators are there? Twelve. Who won the Civil War?
- [51:36]
Megyn Kelly
The U.S. okay.
- [51:38]
Stephen A. Smith
Who did they beat? Britain. Who is the governor of your state of Pennsylvania? Oh, my God. Is it Ben something? Ben Shapiro? No. No, I don't. Would you like Ben Shapiro to be the governor of your state?
- [52:00]
Ben Shapiro
I don't know.
- [52:02]
Stephen A. Smith
Liberty Hangout tv. Ben. Thoughts?
- [52:05]
Ben Shapiro
Wow. I mean, I guess that's the way I'm going to get elected governor of Pennsylvania. Right there. And that's. That's my spokesperson. I didn't see that one coming. I will. I will tell you that. That. That is weird.
- [52:15]
Stephen A. Smith
They are shockingly dumb. They are just as dumb as you think. And then even dumber than that. Not all of them, but a healthy collection on the beach is celebrating drinking and being youthful. Ben Shapiro, a pleasure. We'll see you again soon. Coming up, Stephen A. Smith. Think of the last movie that made you think that changed you. Never mind. Possibly inspired you. Angel Studios is bringing those kinds of films to the world. Movies like Sound of Freedom, Homestead, Bonhoeffer, and Something to stand for. Movies that honor God, celebrate patriotism and lift our values. And right now, when you join the Angel Guild, you will get two free tickets to see the King of Kings, a blockbuster animated film about the life of Jesus, in theaters this Easter. This is a chance to experience a powerful film that's making waves and changing hearts. With a 95% average audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. Angel Studios films are high quality, family friendly entertainment that teaches values like freedom, self reliance and unity. To stream their films and to help angel bring more stories to the world, go to angel.commegan and that'll help you become a premium Angel Guild member. As a member of the Angel Guild, you get to vote on the stories that matter most to you and your family. Become an Angel Guild member today by going to angel.commegan and when you become a premium member, you will get two free tickets to the King of Kings in theaters this Easter only with Angel Studios. Oh my God. It's the coolest thing ever. Hey guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? Well, check this out. It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. Seriously. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift. It is clear the Democrats are in disarray, lost in their messaging and on the hunt for their next political leader. Could my next guest be the answer? There's plenty of speculation and he is garnering some support in early polls. Plus, I need to ask him about my bracket. Joining me now, Stephen A. Smith. He's host of the Stephen A. Smith show and First Take and author of Straight Shooter. Welcome back, Stephen. Great to see you.
- [54:38]
Megyn Kelly
What's going on, Megan? How are you? How's everything been going?
- [54:41]
Stephen A. Smith
I mean, I'm totally out of the NCAA tournament. I'm out. I wanted a couple of years amongst all media because I choose the upsets. And Stephen A. This was not the year to do that. So why is this happening? Why did none of the upsets do well in round one?
- [54:55]
Megyn Kelly
Well, first of all, let me, let me say this. I got love for Megyn Kelly and stuff like that. So I'm here to help. I'm here to help. Here's the deal. You're not a sports person and you still doing better than me. And you're still doing better than me. I got less than 30% of my bracket. Right. So I am in no position to judge you negatively at all. I've been awful. But I did pick Florida and Duke to meet for the national title and I'm still in play for that.
- [55:20]
Stephen A. Smith
But I got Duke money at all.
- [55:22]
Megyn Kelly
In all seriousness, I get a chance to watch maybe about college basketball 5% of the time because I got to spend so much time watching the NFL and the NBA and stuff, I don't get a chance to watch a lot of college basketball. So other than those elite teams, I'm guessing just like you.
- [55:35]
Stephen A. Smith
Yeah, just like you.
- [55:37]
Megyn Kelly
So don't be.
- [55:38]
Stephen A. Smith
The ones that really caused me are Clemson and St. John's I went for St. John's because that's not far from where I grew up. And I went for Clemson because it's where my dear friend's daughter goes and there's a sweet story behind it with their family. So I rooted for them to get all the way Clemson to the Final Four, which I realized was bold. But, but there. Now there's this theory that like there's a reason we're not seeing any upsets win and it has to do with the fact that we're allowing the athletes to make money while they're athletes. Can you explain this to me?
- [56:07]
Megyn Kelly
I will. First things first, you say you grew up near St. John's I went to Thomas Edison High School. I went to Thomas Edison Vocational Technical High School right across the Grand Central Parkway. I studied electrical installation. So, so, so, so, so we're siblings in that regard. So let's get that out the way. Number two, Clemson, they just didn't show up. They didn't show up in the first half. They forgot how to play basketball. They were awful. And that's what happened to them. Number three, St. John's when you look at St. John's with Rick Pattino on those guys, they couldn't shoot. They shot 9%, 2 or 22 from 3 point range. They shot 28% from the field. They were awful. They elite defensive team, offensively they struggled shooting and then their star, RJ Lewis Jr. Rick Patino inexplicably benches him for the last several minutes of the game, which is a huge, huge story because it's something that you just don't do. Now to get to your question about in terms of why you've got mid majors 0 and 6 in this NCAA tournament, no Cinderellas winning, nil trade portal. Here's what happens. Because there's money out there for the college athletes now, Megan, what happens is, is that if you are a program, even if you're a mid major and there's somebody that's lower than you, you got more money to offer that athlete to come to your program. If you're a big time program, you got money over. You ain't got. They don't have any money for you at this institution. We got about 250 million, $250,000 for you from the trade, you know, for the nil. You can come over to us. So those individuals that had talent that were at mid majors or lesser schools are having an opportunity to upgrade their stature in terms of the programs they get associated with because those programs have money that the smaller programs don't have. NIL and beyond. And that is what has compromised it. Because you. That I just said today on first take my show on espn, I said, let me tell y'all something. If this continues, it's going to be the death of college basketball. Because at this point, college basketball is all about March Madness. And if you can't look at a Cinderella, if you can't look at a team on a come up engine that could per se, if you don't have that, that because athletes are departing from those programs to go to bigger programs, okay, then college basketball is going to cease to exist the way we know and love it as it pertains to March Madness. That is where your problem lies.
- [58:20]
Stephen A. Smith
That's exactly right. I remember a couple years ago my, my little guy had a serious injury while skiing and he was laid up in the ICU for a week and we were watching the March Madness tournament. Totally got him through it. And that was the year that Gonzaga had that guy, Timmy. I don't remember his full name, but he was amazing. He got. They were getting beaten down. They went into the locker room at halftime and he turned around that team and it was. They came back and they made it. They didn't win the tournament, but they made it far. And it was so exciting. And it was a Cinderella kind of thing. And that's kind of what I thought might happen with some of these other schools. But so far, no.
- [58:52]
Megyn Kelly
If I remember correctly, I think that's who it was. I think that's what it was, but I'm not sure.
- [58:55]
Stephen A. Smith
I think his name was facial hair. He's got the beard. I can't remember Drew to me, yeah, he did go on to the NBA. Yeah. Okay, but here's, here's. Let me. I gotta ask you about Duke or I'd be remiss. Now, the only reason I voted for Duke, my husband went there. But I usually don't vote for them just because he went there. I have my system, right? If I have a connection to the city, I vote for them. Unless the odds are just crazy. Yeah. So. But this year, Doug took our whole family to watch Duke play a Game against Illinois at Madison Square Garden. And they looked amazing. They looked so good. And everybody was talking about Cooper Flag. Everybody's in love with this guy. Cooper Flagg, who's, he's amazing, is 6 foot 9. But I have to tell you, I have to look at the names because I don't have them off the top of my head. Tyrese Proctor was the one who wowed me. Who is the best player on Duke and, and why is it Tyrese Proctor?
- [59:46]
Megyn Kelly
Well, it's, it's, it's Cooper Flag. But when you look at Proctor, he can really shoot. Hit nine to 10 shots. Yesterday, seven of eight from three point range. He was absolutely sensational. But Duke overall completely outclassed Baylor. Baylor was just not in their league. That's number one. Number two, remember that Cooper Flagg really injured his ankle, came down really hard in the ACC Conference tournament, had to miss the semifinals and the conference championship games, which Duke ended up winning without him. So Coach Raya has succeeded Coach Mike Krzyzewski, Coach K, as he's affectionately known, and he's really, really kept this program on a level we're accustomed to seeing Duke's program. So that's major, major props to him. But Flag is something special. They've been talking about him for years. We've watched him. His game is pure. He's got a J, he can get to the hole. He doesn't look big with a lot of girth, but he's strong. He can get to the hole, he can finish at the basket. He's got all the requisite tools. He's expected to be the number one overall pick in the upcoming NBA draft. And so when you look at his size, his skill set, his ball handling skills, passing ability, shooting ability, etc. And you're going to look at him, he led the team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. That's what he did for Duke this year as a freshman.
- [61:00]
Stephen A. Smith
He's a freshman.
- [61:01]
Megyn Kelly
He brings to the table. And so he's legit. And then the marketability, you'll appreciate this. Get ready, you know what I'm saying? Because again, and not to make light of it, you know, our president with the assassination attempt, remember, he's got blood trickling down his face. He gets up and one of the things I said at the time was, that's the American Flag behind him. You can't get a better photo op than that. That. It's impossible. It's impossible. Okay, well, Flag, what have they already started doing? Not that they're feeling off of the Feeding off of that. I certainly don't mean to imply that, but when they talk about this kid because of his name, you see promotional and marketing tools with him behind the American flag, flag, flag behind them. They're gonna market this point.
- [61:46]
Stephen A. Smith
That's.
- [61:47]
Megyn Kelly
And he's going to live up to it because he can play. And it's smart on their part. It really, really is. Because he's going to be somebody that typifies and personifies the American green. You don't big time college players coming from Maine. He does. And this is what he. And he's got. He's going to bring a game to the table because he can play.
- [62:04]
Stephen A. Smith
My kids looked up, he's 6 foot 9, how tall he was when he was closer to their age. They're in eighth grade, ninth grade and fifth grade. And in eighth grade, according, according to the Internets, he was already six foot seven. Which is just crazy to think about an eighth grader who's six foot seven. Last night we saw him take an elbow in the eye and he did look like he had a shiner coming on. And he still played. He kept going. Respect that too. With the. How these athletes all play. They all play hurt. I will say this just before we close out our sporting discussion. What happened to Syracuse, where I went when I went there back in, I don't know, the dark ages. 88 to 92. We were, we were great. We were always at the top. It was us, Georgetown, sometimes Duke, Villanova, you know, for the top spot. They're not even in the tournament. Stephen A. What happened to Syracuse?
- [62:55]
Megyn Kelly
Well, they're not as good. They're not as good. Boeheim is no longer the coach.
- [62:58]
Stephen A. Smith
I gleaned that.
- [63:00]
Megyn Kelly
I will tell you this though. I think that Carmelo Anthony, the great Carmelo Anthony used to play in the NBA. One of the great, great scorers in NBA history. His son is going to Syracuse next season. Four star player, got a lot of skills, considered probably the best player in New York. He's going to Syracuse. So I think that you'll see somewhat of a resurrection. I'm going to tell you what really, really disappoints you about Syracuse. Without you even realizing it, those days that you're talking about, Megan, they were in the Big East. That's not the case anymore.
- [63:29]
Stephen A. Smith
What happened in the Big East?
- [63:30]
Megyn Kelly
It was Georgetown, it was Villanova, it was St. John's it was even Providence, for crying out loud. I mean, Big east was the place to be. That Syracuse being in another conference just doesn't Feel right. And I think from a recruiting standpoint, they've been somewhat compromised in that regard as well. Because you're looking at them and you're saying, this ain't. This ain't the team. This ain't the program that had Dwayne Pearl Washington, the greatest show in the history of college basketball. I'm talking about a showman. This brother could dance on anybody. Okay? They had Carmelo Anthony back in the day. They had Billy Owens, they had Derrick Coleman, they had Sherman.
- [64:07]
Stephen A. Smith
They had Billy and Michael Owens, who is a great football player. They were brothers. They live right next door to me.
- [64:13]
Megyn Kelly
There you go. Okay. Billy just text me about a month ago or so. I hadn't spoken.
- [64:17]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, you tell him I live next to him at Skytop. And they constantly were giving us free tickets to go watch the games. And I was like, I'm good. They were like, you're kidding.
- [64:24]
Megyn Kelly
Everybody's got it. You see teams, you see basketball programs, they're having like 12, 13,000. You go to the Carrier Dome, 30, 40,000, 50,000 people watching a basketball game. That's what the Carrier Dome and the Syracuse program gave to you. And I think them being out of the Big east somewhat compromises their allure to some degree. It's just my opinion, but I think it's an educated one.
- [64:50]
Stephen A. Smith
You know what's crazy, too, is I didn't follow it as closely in basketball, but when I was there, I dated the captain of the lacrosse team that won three Division 1 national championships. And so I followed lacrosse. And they got their medals, like, their first place trophies taken away from them after the fact for some alleged recruiting violations that, as memory serves, had to do with, like, you know, they bent some of the rules around, like driving players, parents around in limousines, that kind of stuff. All of which they all do now. STEPHEN A. You know, it's like. And by the way, they were all doing it then, too. It just seems so unfair that I think that's what happened to the basketball program is it got its hands slapped for some of these violations. And then once you get slapped hard enough, it's very hard to get back up as a basketball team. They've never quite rebounded, to steal a sports phrase.
- [65:40]
Megyn Kelly
That's a valid point. That's a valid point. And it was the hypocrisy of the ncaa, and they sort of compromised college sports where it's harmed, particularly the sport of college, college basketball at this particular moment in time here. Certainly guys was getting paid back in the day or whatever, but you're talking about you having a star player and you know what? His he couldn't go home to see and get some money to go home and see his family for the holidays when, you know, he couldn't afford it, or he could go in a bookstore and there's jerseys in his name or whatever. And if somebody gave him a free jersey, it was an NCAA violation, even though he's generating millions of dollars for the program. This is the ridiculousness and the hypocrisy of the NCAA that reigned supreme for many, many years. So now that their comeuppance has arrived, when we're talking about nil, when we're talking about the trade portal, when we're talking about players being paid, when we're talking about agents being involved, where coaches feel embezzled, for crying out loud, by these agents and stuff like that, it's something that the NCAA brought upon itself because for so long they took advantage of guys that came from depraved environments or poverty stricken environments. You knew that. You said, okay, they had our mercy. You gave them a scholarship and called it a day while you were collecting a boatload of the benefits that they generated. And so ultimately that change has come. And as a result, these folks are taking full advantage of it. But in the process, the real authentic feel that you had, the purity of the sport itself and what you loved about it most, seems to be evaporating before our very eyes because of it all now.
- [67:21]
Stephen A. Smith
You're so right. God, that really captures it. All right, so we talked about how smart it is to put Cooper flag in front of a flag. And we did see him all over the ads when we watched ncaa. But what's not smart? A disturbing collection of young people on spring break. Now, I left off here with Ben Shapiro, and I've got to pick it back up with you because it's just too delicious. Then again, props to the gal who went down there and all these folks on camera. I think her name is Caitlin Bennett, and she posts under Liberty Hangout tv. She used to be with Turning Point, Charlie Kirk's group. So what we. What you missed, Steven, was we played a long clip, I'm gonna play another one where they were asked, how many U.S. senators are there? And we heard answers like, six. Six total U.S. senators. How many amendments are in the Bill of Rights, which of course is the first 10amendments to the Constitution. 17. Who won the Civil War? American Civil War. Was it east or West? The students responded, name is Supreme Court Justice. The girl said, is it the FBI on The Supreme Court. And here's. Here's a little more for you from the spring breakers down someplace south of the border. What's the beginning of the national anthem?
- [68:36]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God. No, wait.
- [68:40]
Stephen A. Smith
What is the name of the national anthem?
- [68:46]
Ben Shapiro
The name, bro, has it star, Star.
- [68:56]
Stephen A. Smith
Bangled, something like that? I don't even know. I don't know.
- [68:58]
Ben Shapiro
What is it?
- [68:59]
Stephen A. Smith
Wait, Stars and Stripes. All right, it was Clearwater, Florida, not quite south of the border. Your thoughts, Thoughts on. This is just a rando. Look into Gen Z. I'm so. I like. I realize very few people can name even one Supreme Court justice, but I feel like most people know the FBI as an institution does not hold one of the seats. Help me out, Stephen.
- [69:26]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I think that. Here's the problem. I mean, when we think about it, right now you have a very successful show on Sirius XM. We follow you on YouTube, stuff like that. Me, YouTube, you got all of these outlets, and everybody's got a podcast and everybody's got something going on, right? And I think that unlike years in past where you had to go to school, capture an education, and find a way to finagle that into building a prosperous life for yourself, something that could sustain and hopefully elevate your quality of life, I don't think you have a lot of kids looking at that today. The late, great coach John Chaney from Temple University lamented decades ago that we're living in a microwave society. Everybody wants something now, so they don't prioritize learning. They prioritize getting by so they can get theirs somewhere down the line sooner than later. That's the America that I think that we're living in. That's the America that I think a lot of people are leaning on. And they're not looking at the forest from the trees, and they're not looking at the marathon instead of the sprint. That's just their mentality, and that's the challenge that we have as a society. That's what we gotta look forward to. And I think that somebody such as yourself, who's been, you know, everybody looks at you as hosting this show. They don't realize what an outstanding reporter you've been throughout the years. They don't look at it that way. They don't see it that way. They don't see somebody like you or me who've been in the business for decades and built something, something. They want it now, you understand? And, you know, with your kids, my kids, anybody else, you see everybody. Everything's about now. Nothing's about waiting Nothing's about working it through. Nothing that's about failing and falling and getting back up and persevering and understanding this trials and tribulations with everything. Everything is about now. And the world is going to come to an end if we don't get what we want now. So we're in school, let's have a good time. We here to have a good time. Yeah, we got to go to class, but we really want the parties. We really want to hang out, we really want to enjoy ourselves. Like that's the purpose that you have in going to school. This is their mentality and they view us, parents, supervisors, bosses, adults, etc, they view all of us as the problem. We just don't get it. We're archaic. We don't understand what it is that they have to endure and what their life is like. And so they commingle with one another and they feed themselves this kind of nonsense. And ultimately they gotta find out reality. They're gonna run into reality sooner than later. But it's always the case and it doesn't matter. Race, ethnicity, whatever the case may be, none of that matters. It seems to be something that's going on universally and it's just a challenge that adults in the room have to face.
- [72:07]
Stephen A. Smith
One thing may matter. I agree with you on the race, et cetera. But I do think being extremely hot as a college girl can be a. A detriment to you. And I can say this as somebody who wasn't, but I think these girls, they're all very beautiful, they have perfect bikini bodies and I think they've been able to skate by already in life for too long on those impressive attributes. And girls, I am here to tell you it won't last. You need to develop your minds because even men who are attracted to your beautiful looks will eventually want someone to keep the conversation going at dinner. It may happen two years into relationship, it may happen after three kids when nobody's body looks the same as they did pre kids. You can get it close, but not the same. But at some point your future mate is going to want you to say something clever about something and correct me if I'm wrong. Stephen A. But most men will look at women and think, do I want to reproduce with this person and create another generation of idiots? Like doesn't. Doesn't somewhat of a mind factor in when choosing not your date for Saturday night, but your date for every Saturday night?
- [73:21]
Megyn Kelly
It's not popular to say and most men are scared to say these things. I'm not going to Be. I'm gonna give it to you straight.
- [73:29]
Stephen A. Smith
Oh, boy.
- [73:31]
Megyn Kelly
First of all, as men, we are physical creatures first. We're not limited to that. But that's where we start. We covet what we see. So what happens is when you're young, you're coveting what you see. The reason why I somewhat disagree with you about the quote unquote hot young ladies and how it eventually ends, yes, that's true, but it ends sooner than later. And the reason why is because even when she's hot while she's young and that young dude wants to get with her, once he gets with her, he's looking for the next hotel. One in a lot of instances right there at the time that she's young. It's not like she finds out when she gets older, she finds out when she's in college. You understand, it hits her relatively quickly. So the challenge at that particular moment in time is are you going to embrace the fact that there are individuals that can be that way and that's who you want to ward off, and this is how you ward them off, or are you so caught up in your ego that you're going to say, on to the next? We live in a society. Back in the day, you had young ladies. They're not, they're not sitting around and like, you know, okay, I'm just going to go to the next guy and I'm going to move on with my life. They sort of lick their wounds to some degree because they're hurt and they want to be respected and what have you in today's society, even though you have a lot of young ladies that may feel that way in the same breath. We live in a society that, that you know, this cover. And there's always somebody to uplift her spirits and allows her to believe that she might be right and him to believe he may be right when he's hanging out with his boys. And there's very, very little accountability. And that's really where it comes down to, because, okay, he doesn't find me good looking, he doesn't find me to be the greatest, but I can go on to the next and I'll be just fine. And you're not thinking about how that's going to affect you morally if you keep getting rejected and you refuse to look at yourself until it's too late down the road. The more introspection you do at a very early age, the more lethal you are when you're older because you're not going to fall for the foolishness, the way you once did. Ladies usually learn that a hell of a lot quicker than the fellas. But because the fellas don't learn it quick enough, you find problems wherever you go, which elevates the frustration of women. And that's why you have so much dissension a lot of times, because you keep running into the same problems. Because the fellas don't learn till later, the ladies learn earlier.
- [76:05]
Stephen A. Smith
And that is how you wind up thinking that there are a total of six US Senators. I can't. Girls, call me. You can email me right now. It's Meganagelly.com I will. I'll help you. I will help all of you. First thing is we're gonna have to put on a bathing suit, cover up. We're gonna have to sit down for two hours a day. You can watch Stephen A. You can watch mk, Your choice, but you're gonna have to take in something. Okay. Right, let's. Speaking of running for office, are you actually consider. There's a lot of buzz about you because the Democrats desperately need somebody with charisma, personality, strong views and smarts who maybe isn't a partisan hack. That's all you to step in and say, I will help you. Are you. Are you kicking it around a little?
- [76:53]
Megyn Kelly
I'm not considering it. I was recently in the news for agreeing to a new contract extension with espn. My life is pretty damn. Well, I really don't need politics. I don't need that headache. I'm not thinking about it at all. And I've said that I think it's ridiculous that I am a candidate. But the more I think about it, I understand it. The Democratic Party is an absolute mess and they are devoid of leadership on a national level. I am a fan of Governor Westmore of Maryland, Josh Shapiro, who I had the pleasure of interviewing on my podcast, Super Bowl Week for Pennsylvania. I respect these guys and what have you, but I'm talking about a national voice, meaning somebody in the House or the Senate or somebody in the business community that resonates on the left. No, there's none of that because they've been pulled too far to the left. And it's not popular for me to say because primarily I have voted Democratic throughout my life, as I have never been shy about articulating, particularly for the presidency. But right is right. And I watched you, Megan, leading up, up to the election, and I just had to say I was finding myself like, damn, she's right. Damn, she's writing. I'm looking for something to disagree about.
- [78:02]
Stephen A. Smith
And I'M like, I'm gonna get you eventually find it.
- [78:04]
Megyn Kelly
You know, she, she. She's on them. You know, she's on them. You know, and so I, I look at things and. And I'm a moderate. I'm a centrist, and I'm. I'm the kind of person that. Do I believe that if I committed myself to knowing politics the way you and others know it, it. Do I believe I could win a Democratic nomination? Hell, yes. Particularly the state of affairs that exist. I think it would be a cakewalk. I think I'd take them all out. I really, really believe that. I really think I could take them. And maybe in three years from now, I'll feel a bit differently. I just can't imagine that's going to happen. I'm not a politician. I'm not knowledgeable enough about all the intricacies that come along with politics.
- [78:42]
Stephen A. Smith
Trump wasn't a politician either.
- [78:46]
Megyn Kelly
I watched people like yourself and others on both sides of the aisle. I read, I pay attention, but I'm no aficionado. But it's just so bad on the left right now. And I tell you, I do believe that I'd be a formidable candidate because I know. I know how to debate. I would look forward to going up against folks on the right and the left, and I would be about common sense, and I would be about, you know what? We're not gonna sit up there and look at. I don't care if it's Trump. I don't care if it's Vice President Vance. I don't care if it's Rubio. I don't care if it's Hegseth. I don't care who the hell it is. I don't care if it's Megyn Kelly, damn it. If you're right, you're right. What's the crime in saying. That's a good point. I got to think about that. Then you got a good point. That would be so disarming and that you do the same in return if you. If we're going up against. But I think that they completely surrendered themselves to the extreme deal. Or think about maga. Right. The fact of the matter is, whatever they were saying about maga, Right. They were no better on the left. It was embarrassing. It was a disgraceful performance. You are absolutely right. When you were pointing out how they hoodwinked the public, we all knew there was slippage. And if you remember, when I called out President Biden at the time, it was a year before the debate, a year. I said yo, something's missing. He's not there. He's not gonna make it to the Democratic National Convention. Okay? You gotta get another candidate. I was excoriated. I was raked through the codes. Who the hell is he? What does he know? Stick to sports or whatever. But look at your neck now. Because I was right. I was right about that. I was right about Kamala. I was right about you leaning to the extreme left. Woke culture, cancel culture, and all of this stuff in between. You were focusing on transgender. First of all, you didn't even focus on the LGBTQ community. You literally focused on one element of that community with transgender folks, which make up less than 1% of the population. You're talking about the borders, and it's no problem. Even though even Obama himself deported more people than Trump did. And so for Biden to go completely against that, for Kamala Harris to sign off on it, there were so many elements and increments where I'm looking at the right, and I'm saying I could have some problems with some of the things that they're suggesting. I could look at certain things and say, yo, I'm not vibing with that. That's not what I want for this country. But what the left did, they were in no moral position to say anything, yet they tried to act like they were. And you know where the proof is about how sad things are, Megan? The election is over. The man has been in office for months, and they are still acting like they're on the campaign trail spewing the same old stuff they were doing during the campaign. I think the man won every swing state, elevated his votes in the black, the Hispanic, and young voters. Okay? He's increased in every possible category imaginable. He won the popular vote for the first time for the Republicans since 2004. You would think they would say, man, we gotta change up. Instead, they're walking around talking about, there's no mandate. There's no mandate at all. I'm like, really? They stole.
- [81:43]
Stephen A. Smith
We have that. They tried to pull that on you when you went on the View, and you. And you gave them a bit of what you just said, and it was a thing of beauty, because they don't often have somebody come on and say what's real to them. Here it is. In SOT 30, you won the popular.
- [81:58]
Ben Shapiro
Vote by 1.5%, one of the smallest.
- [82:01]
Megyn Kelly
Ever, and he won the general election.
- [82:04]
Ben Shapiro
By less than 50%.
- [82:05]
Stephen A. Smith
So what kind of mandate is this, really?
- [82:06]
Megyn Kelly
It is a mandate mandate, and I'm going to explain why. And I don't mind the question, but let me be very clear. I'm no supporter of Trump. I'm a supporter of truth and the facts. And here's the facts. The man won every swing state. He increased, in terms of his vote, voter turnout in his favor from the standpoint of blacks, Latinos, and young voters. He increased his numbers in that regard. From 2020, 89% of the counties shifted to the right. That's a mandate. I don't understand how people can look at that and say, there's no mandate. There's a mandate.
- [82:38]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, it's a different definition of a mandate, I guess. Do you think you got through?
- [82:46]
Megyn Kelly
I think so. I've known Whoopi for years. I look at the view. They're my colleagues. We all work for the same company. I root for them. I will never root against them. But we're not gonna lie to each other.
- [83:00]
Stephen A. Smith
Other.
- [83:01]
Megyn Kelly
And I'm not gonna sit up there and let them lie to themselves because there's a mandate. Now, understand what I mean by a mandate, Megan? I'm not saying that that means that Trump gets to do whatever he wants to do, whatever way he wants to do it, without a complaint or any level of skepticism or anything like that. What I mean by a mandate is that they're more interested in what he's doing than what you were saying you wanted to do. Do. Don't come and act like the American public wants to flow with you. They don't. They don't because they're sick and tired of what you've been doing. They're sick and tired of how you've been doing it. They're sick and tired of how you hoodwink you. We had. We got to a point where people were worried about their jobs if they didn't pronounce the right pronoun. You have any idea how ridiculous that is? Of course you do. It's a rhetorical question. You would know that better than me because you cover this stuff every day. I'm sitting there and I feel like I've been pulled into this because of how utterly ridiculous they are. What happened, you know, and this is the same party that raved about Bill Clinton. Well, what happened with Bill Clinton takes office in 1992, 1994, Newt Gingrich in the House. They do their thing, they collaborate, and they work together. Yes, he departed with a surplus, but that was from assistance from folks on the right Newsflash. That means going across the aisle and working together. That means finding compromise, not just from a policy perspective. But from the psyche of America. I'm talking about, like if I look at you, I got into this argument with Sean Hannity the other day. I said, this is the problem that I have with some of y'all. I said you might have inside information. And I had this issue with Bill O'Reilly, too. You might have inside information. You may know something. And because you know, it's okay, well, guess what. But I'll use this analogy, Megan. Let's say, for example, Trump gets into something and he gets in a bit too deep. Let's say, for example, he wasn't seemingly against Ukraine at times or whatever the case may be. And let's say we on the verge of being at war with Russia, China, whomever. Let's say something happens and we think we're on the brink of World War Three. But Megyn Kelly, because of her knowledge and her connections, knows better and Bill O'Reilly knows better and Hannity and everybody else knows better. And we're going through this for three months. You may know, but what about the hundreds of millions of American citizens that have no clue and are sitting in fear that World War Three or nuclear holocaust is going to take place? How stressed do you think their lives are? I don't think we think enough about that, which is why I think it's incredibly important for a centrist, a moderate on either side of the aisle to be in office because you're showing decorum, you're showing an ability to work with one another and you're assuaging the concerns of the American public. So we don't, the rest of us, don't lose our damn minds. That's all. That's the kind of stuff that I talk about and that's the kind of message that I try to get across to people. That's where I'm coming from.
- [85:57]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, that's what's so interesting about Trump is that, you know, he spent his whole life as a Democrat. I don't even know if he is a Republican now. I mean, he's really just a, he doesn't need the label. He needs the label to run for president. That's the way our system works. But, but Trump is very open minded to left wing ideals. Take tariffs, that's one from the left. But they just reject it out of hand because it comes from Trump and they don't like him and they don't want to give him a win. But there really are areas in which the left could help him. You know, his general approach to labor is much more Democrat than It is Republican. He's gotten some guff from his own party on that, but they still don't want to deal with him. I do want to play this sound bite because it's. It really jumped out at me and it's very annoying. The left does need to come to terms with how they lost. And not just that, but why the Republicans won, which aren't exactly the same thing. Like, why is the Republican Party so popular right now? Why is a whole generation of young people turning Republican and or conservative? Those questions need to be answered by both sides in order for the Republicans to build on it, in order for the Democrats to try to stop it and get back to where they once were. So Ezra Klein, who's one of the gods on the left, he's got a podcast that the lefties listen to. He's with the New York Times. He went on with Bill Maher this past Friday night. And they were on the subject of the deportations that we're doing of these Venezuelan gang members. And it led to a weird place in which Ezra Klein said the following. Watch this.
- [87:26]
Ben Shapiro
But here, put yourself in the shoes of somebody who doesn't follow politics that closely.
- [87:32]
Stephen A. Smith
And there.
- [87:33]
Ben Shapiro
Venezuelan gang members. Why are we even arguing about this? They shouldn't be in this country. This guy's finally doing something about it. He's kicking them out. And a judge, one judge told him to stop. What law is this? Why is it that one judge anywhere can say, oh, a president can't do this? I mean, that's something that's a little abstruse to a lot of people. Look, I think you can make the argument.
- [87:53]
Megyn Kelly
The question is, can you get to where people are listening, listening to the argument. The thing about the election, the thing about politics right now is Donald Trump wins.
- [88:01]
Stephen A. Smith
People who don't like to think about politics.
- [88:04]
Megyn Kelly
Right?
- [88:04]
Stephen A. Smith
That's very, very clear in all the polling. If you follow the news, you voted for the Democrats, by and large. If you don't follow the news, you voted for him. If you don't follow the news, you voted for Trump. If you follow the news, you voted for Democrats. This is so deeply offensive on so many levels, as if Republicans aren't consuming news. Can I just give you the stats? Because, I mean, obviously my audience is well aware that Republicans follow news, but I just pulled it up just for kicks. Morning Consult poll from September of 2024. This past September, nearly 3 in 5 Democrats and nearly 3 in 5 Republicans say they still watch broadcast news. Partisan outlets have wide gaps in viewership. Democrats 23 percentage points more likely to watch CNN. Republicans, 23 points more likely to watch Fox News. The most frequent news consumption happens on social media. Half of Democrats, 51% and half of Republicans, 52%, say they turn to social media for news at least once a day, more frequently than any other news source. And yet he wants you to believe that only the Democrats consume news and that's what caused them to vote for Kamala Harris. And just the dumb, Neanderthal, uninformed people who didn't consume any news you see were wowed by Donald Trump's personality and charisma and went into the polling booth not understanding Stephen A.
- [89:25]
Megyn Kelly
What they were voting for to encapsulate what he said. Y'all are a bunch of deplorables. That's basically what he said. That's basically what he said. Which is what got them in trouble in 2016. See, this is the nonsense that I'm talking about. So again, I'm a centrist that leans left on social issues, leans rights on fiscal issues. Megyn Kelly, I watch your show as often as I possibly can. I'm a fan. I don't always agree with you. What's wrong with having a conversation? Why do I have to insult you? Because I disagree with you. You know, I watched your interview with Bill Maher when you showed up on Real Time. I think you showed up a few weeks before I showed up on there. And you went back and forth with him. Back and forth with him. You know what I did? I watched, watched both arguments being made. And I said, okay, who has the facts? Let me look at this. Okay, she makes a good point there. He made a good point there. But she made a good point here, here and there. I'm looking at stuff like that and I'm like, that's how it's supposed to be. But what the left has gotten accustomed to doing is vilifying you and denigrating you. If you don't agree with them, that's why the young voters turned against them. You're a parent, I'm a parent. This is very, very simple. Talk to a kid, talk to a youngster. And even in the throes of trying to teach them or discipline them, call them an idiot, and then ask yourself, how often are they going to listen to you? How often they going to even come in front of you to hear what you have to say. Yet somehow, some way, folks on the left don't get this. I've said to them on many occasions, I said, listen, over the last few months, I Said, look, I'm not saying you sit idly by and be mute, but in the same breath, the man won the election, okay? See what he's going to do. Speak against what you want to speak against in an effort to try to win the midterms, okay? Outside of that, that's your only recourse. Anything else you do, especially anything that remotely resembles the rhetoric that you were spewing on the campaign, you're dead in the water. You don't have a chance. Because people are gonna say, that's the kind of nonsense we don't wanna deal with. We ain't trying to go back to that. And as I said on Real Time with Bill Maher, as crazy as Trump can come across as being sometimes, particularly with his rhetoric and his stances, when he's going up against them and what have you, the reality is, no matter all the things that he's been through, he was considered closer to normal than the Democratic Party. To the American people. People, that is a fact. If you know that, you would think, you go back, you lick your wombs and you say, we got to re strategize and we got to get our act together. They didn't. They still haven't. And that's why if they continue on this path, the Republicans are going to win the midterms, they're going to get even more seats and, oh, by the way, he's going to. They're going to win the presidency. Now, I'm not down. I don't want to hear anything from Steve Bannon about a third term. The 22nd Amendment particularly stipulates, explicitly stipulate it's two terms. Steve Bannon.
- [92:22]
Stephen A. Smith
We're hearing rumblings. That's right.
- [92:23]
Megyn Kelly
I want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. J.D. vance is the vice president. Marco Rubio is the Secretary of State. Those are two candidates off the bat. Presidency of the United States of America. I want to hear that. Okay? But if you're the left, you got to stop being so emotional and you got to stop disrespecting the competition. If the rights to competition that, so be it. Deal with them respectfully, respect the competition and come up with a game plan that's different from the nonsense we're hearing.
- [92:56]
Stephen A. Smith
It's amazing to me. I gotta take a break, but I do want to say this. Last week, we devoted almost an hour to a debate between. It wound up being between yours truly and Charles C.W. cook of National Review on the Alien enemies Act of 1798, the now in the cable news business, when I was hosting the Kelly File, they would have looked at me like I was a nutcase. If I said I wanted to do that, they'd say, nobody will be interested in that. It's going to be like watching paint dry. Not so at all. The numbers were huge on it. The podcast did very well. The YouTube clip did very well. That YouTube show did very well. Same then we had Glenn Greenwald on long debate about Mahmoud Khalil and also about the deportation of the Venezuelan gang. All of it in depth. Long debate debates with both sides represented smart, respectful points, no disrespect. And honestly, I think that's. That's what brings the audience here. They want to hear that. Ezra Klein does. I would put my audience's knowledge about any of these subjects up against his audience any day of the week. They're not offended by ideas with which they disagree. They will suffer for through somebody who they might not even love that much. Just to hear the ideas and hear them tested and hear my ideas, which represent a lot of my audience, test it as well. That's what a normal, intellectually curious person does, as opposed to a partisan hack. Quick word from you, Stephen A. Then I'll take the break.
- [94:18]
Megyn Kelly
That's the best form of education in this day and age, because if we've seen the newspaper industry disintegrate, as we've seen journalistic outlets being bought up by whomever, as we've seen so many things transpire before our very eyes in our society, what we trust is to see two respectful, intelligent, opposite points of view expressing their ideas, one up against one another, because the audience views it as having healthy perspectives upon which to lean on and to contemplate before drawing a conclusion as to how they should be. If you insult one side or the other, you don't trust it because there's an absence of objectivity. So if I see Ezra Klein and I see him, no matter how great his work may have been, now I'm looking at you and I'm saying, so that's how you feel about the other side. So anything you say about the other side is tainted because you're not being respectful about the competition.
- [95:14]
Stephen A. Smith
I can't trust you don't understand that.
- [95:16]
Megyn Kelly
You'Re going to be objective and fair. And I don't want to hear you if I can't trust that.
- [95:21]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right. Just because they don't tune in to Ezra doesn't mean they don't know what's happening. More with Stephen A. Smith the one only right after this break. Don't go away. When metabolism functions properly, every aspect of life benefits. A powerful tool exists to optimize metabolic health and it's called Lumen. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. The app analyzes whether fat or carbs are being burned and provides personalized guidance on nutrition, workout, sleep and stress management. A simple morning breath into Lumen will reveal metabolic status, generating a tailored nutrition plan for the day. More readings before and after meals or workouts will provide real time insights. Metabolism powers everything. Your energy, your weight management, fitness, your sleep. When functioning at its best, it enhances daily performance, improves recovery and supports better rest. Lumen adjusts recommendations to maintain metabolic balance, sustain energy levels and reduce cravings. Take the next step to improving your health. Go to Lumen Me L U M E N M e Megan and that will get you 20% off your luminance. Lumen L U M E N M e Megan M e G y N for 20% off your purchase. Thanks Lumen for sponsoring this episode. So you're thinking about what to get that person who has everything. Or maybe you are that person that has everything and you just happen to appreciate the finer things. Well, you want something really special? I've got it. It's called Hot salt. Yes, Hot salt. Exquisite savory heat. Now you're interested. So let me tell you about Firecracker Farm. It's a wonderful little family company that makes makes hot salt a delightful spice infused sea salt. It has the perfect amount of heat, an amazing flavor that makes everything taste better. Words getting out and people are loving it. That is because it's made with love. People can feel it and taste it. It's a small batch family operation, so supplies are limited. These things flew off the shelf over Christmas time. It comes in sleek stainless steel push grinders. Plus you can take them anywhere. When you run out, they have refills for you. A little too spicy. You just mix it in with some regular sea salt to tame the heat. But you won't need to. It is blended to perfection. Honestly, it's the best thing to happen to food since fire. So what are you waiting for? Go to Firecracker Farm right now and use the Code MK at checkout for a special discount. That's Firecracker Farm. Code MK get some hot salt before it's all gone. You'll thank me.
- [97:48]
Megyn Kelly
Colon cancer is considered one of the most preventable but least prevented cancers. That's why screening for colon cancer is critical. Sometimes people want to avoid the drama of screening with a colonoscopy. You know, the prep, the downtime, all of it. Thankfully, there's the Cologuard Test, a non invasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk that is delivered right to your door. Early detection is critical when caught early, colon cancer is survivable in 90% of the cases. With the Cologuard test, the process is simple. The test is delivered to your door, you send the sample back to the lab and get results within two weeks. The best part? The Cologuard test is covered by most insurance plans. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Ask your healthcare provider about screening with Cologuard. Cologuard is available by prescription only. Visit cologuard.com to learn more.
- [98:43]
Stephen A. Smith
Oh my God. It's the coolest thing ever. Hey guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? Well, check this out. It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. Seriously. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and for probably love great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free free.
- [99:59]
Megyn Kelly
Go to SiriusXM.com MK show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKS show and get three months free. Offer details apply.
- [100:25]
Stephen A. Smith
For the NCAA Wrestling Championships this weekend. Cheers of USA Glad handing Elon's there Heroes welcome. So Stephen A. This is another sports moment where to confess I knew nothing about this, but here's what happened. Oklahoma State heavyweight Wyatt Hendrickson who was not expected to win. The other guy he was up against was an Olympic gold medal medalist List and. But Hendrickson somehow pulled off one of the biggest upsets in NCAA wrestling history, won the match, and then he, being a second lieutenant in the US Air Force, did the following since his commander in chief was there watching. Let's take a look.
- [101:13]
Megyn Kelly
Captain America. Captain America. I can't believe it. My job's on the floor. He did it.
- [101:25]
Stephen A. Smith
And Stephen A. Trump with the, like, the punching, you know, hand the way he always does. Great moment.
- [101:31]
Megyn Kelly
Sport.
- [101:31]
Stephen A. Smith
Trump is using sports well in this presidency.
- [101:33]
Megyn Kelly
No, absolutely. I think it's, I think it's a beautiful moment. I really, really do. And I think I was at the UFC event when Jon Bones Jones won a fight at Madison Square Garden. And, you know, he started doing the Trump dance, per se and what have you. But, you know, the bottom line is this. Whether, whether people want to accept it or not, the 47th President of the United States of America is Donald Trump. And when you are doing something on behalf of America and you see your president in attendance, there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing what that individual did, period. Some people that didn't vote for Trump, that can't stand what he stands for, et cetera, et cetera, they'd have a problem with, okay, it's one thing for you not to say. It was one thing for you to say, well, I wouldn't do it because I didn't vote for him. It's another thing entirely for you to have a problem with any young man, any American that would choose to do that for the President of the United States, it's respecting the office, and it's something that I think that we have forgotten about. Now, just as an aside, got to remember something. I have several issues with some of the things that I see Trump doing or some things that he may have done in the past. But I knew him before he ran for the presidency, Megan. We used to go to his boxing events at Trump casinos. We used to see him at Madison Square Garden. I saw him one time where he introduced me to Bill O'Reilly, for crying out loud. And some of the problems, some of the things that you hear people saying about him, black and otherwise, we didn't say that about him then. We had no problem with him whatsoever. But somehow, some way, now that he's in the position that he's in, we want to come up with every incendiary thing that we can muster. And obviously, to some degree, he influences that because you like them to Behave better. But the politicians on the opposite side certainly influence that rhetoric against him. And too many people fall for it hook, line and sinker. And as a result, we engage in vitriol as opposed to looking at them and saying, excuse me, I don't want to hear that. You're an elected official. Figure out a way to work with him anyway. Don't play that with me. Yeah, I could complain. They didn't send my behind up to Capitol Hill as an elected official. I didn't campaign and ask you to elect me. You did figure it out and work with him. And far too many occasions people are not doing that. And I'm not letting them off the hook on that. He's the president. You got to work with him, period. Get over it.
- [103:56]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right. And I agree with you completely. You show respect for the office that is his commander in chief. And sports have always been an area that could potentially bring us. So it's great, I think, to see the president there. There was another young man who, let's see, it's Nebraska wrestler Caleb Smith, who. They had a nice moment together and we love to see this. Like Trump kind of glad handing with him with the arm around the neck. People love this. I think Joe Biden should have done more of this. And Trump's spot on to lean into what's a natural affinity of his, which is sports. Stephen A. Smith, thank you so much for being here.
- [104:29]
Megyn Kelly
It was a pleasure anytime for you, Megan. I love your show. I love listening to you. I love watching you. I'm always here anytime you want me. And by the way, I see you up in your knowledge in sports. Don't come take my job, please, please don't do that. I like my job.
- [104:42]
Ben Shapiro
I like my job.
- [104:43]
Stephen A. Smith
You're good. Nothing to fear. Literally. Thanks again. So here is the little extra that I wanted to bring to you today. It's not hysterical, but it's mildly amusing. So something happened to me on my vacation, at the tail end of my vacation, which I've just been giggling to myself about. I thought I'd share it with you guys. So we were flying home from the Bahamas and I was with my family and was going through security to like get on the jet bridge, like onto the plane with my family, but something happened like right behind me that somehow delayed them. And I actually never. I still don't know what exactly delayed them, them. So the long and the short of it is I gave my boarding pass to the flight attendant, you know, the gate agent, and she waved me through and I started walking down the jet bridge and then I looked back and there was this other family in between me and my family. And they had like a bunch of bags and stuff. So I was like, I better get on because I want to make sure I have some space overhead. So I just kept going. But then the jet bridge took a right angle. It kind of turned right, right, right angle. And I was like, well, this is just too. This is just begging for me to do this. So I. I'm going to have to see the overhead space. And I decided I would hide and scare my family because I love to scare them and they scare me all the time. When we were down at the swimming pool down there, I was minding my own business. I was reading my book. Doug had been swimming with the kids and they sneaked up. I didn't even see it. And they scared me with like a large scream. Drop my book scared. It's fun. You know, you laugh, you hate it in the moment, but then you kind of laugh about it because you seem like an idiot anyway. So I'm like, I'm gonna get them all. I owe them now. I knew that there was a family behind me, so of course I knew I had to wait, right? So I'm there I am, I'm behind, behind the corner. And I can hear the footsteps approaching. So I jumped out. I was like, boo. With the arms up, big body motions, loud. It wasn't them. It was like some 40 year old man with a bald head who was like, ah. And then he and I were just staring at each other, wondering why I had just done this to him, looking at each other and he started laughing and then I started laughing and we both wound up doubled over laughing so funny. Because he's a perfect stranger wondering. I don't know if he knew who I was or what, but he was clearly wondering why the crazy lady was trying to terrify him as he poured into Delta flight. And then my family had the extra bonus of having seen it all because they were next. And they watched exactly what I tried to do you so terribly and artfully. And we laughed about it for the rest of the flight. And it turned out that guy was seated right in front of me on the plane. It was all I could do not to keep scaring him. I was dying to do it. Then I was like, now it's just bordering out obnoxious. Now I could actually like get in trouble. So I didn't. Anyway, sir, if you're out there, thank you for being such a good sport. And for giving me something that's kept me laughing for a solid two days now. Thanks to all of you too for listening and we'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org colon cancer is considered one.
- [108:51]
Megyn Kelly
Of the most preventable but least prevented cancers. That's why screening for colon cancer is critical. Sometimes people want to avoid the drama of screening with a colonoscopy. You know, the prep, the downtime, all of it. Thankfully, there's the Cologuard test, a non invasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk that is delivered right to your door. Early detection is critical. When caught early, colon cancer is survivable in 90% of the cases. With the Cologuard test, the process is simple. The test is delivered to your door or you send the sample back to the lab and get results within two weeks. The best part? The Cologuard test is covered by most insurance plans. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Ask your healthcare provider about screening with Cologuard. Cologuard is available by prescription only. Visit cologuard.com to learn more.