Comey Indicted, Kamala Word Salad, and Hoda Kotb's Inane Book, with Maureen Callahan, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and John Solomon | Ep 1158

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show – Ep 1158 (Sept 26, 2025)

Episode Title: Comey Indicted, Kamala Word Salad, and Hoda Kotb's Inane Book
Guests: Maureen Callahan, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, John Solomon

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Overview

This episode is a wide-ranging exploration of the week’s biggest stories and political drama, centering on the historic indictment of former FBI Director James Comey, with additional discussions about Kamala Harris’s book tour “word salad,” Hoda Kotb’s new self-help book, the latest in royal and celebrity gossip, and profound reflections on grief and forgiveness in the wake of public tragedy. With Megyn Kelly at the helm and a roundtable of expert guests, the conversations are honest, energetic, and often acerbic, true to the show’s tagline: “No BS. No agenda. No fear.”

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• [03:28] Indictment of James Comey: Legal Breakdown
• [56:53] Kamala Harris “Word Salad” & Book Tour Mockery
• [92:46] Hoda Kotb’s Book and “Today Show” Drama
• [105:37] Cultural Critique: Serena Williams, Meghan Markle, Violet Affleck & Hilaria Baldwin
• [129:10] Tim Allen’s Forgiveness & Lessons in Grief
• [168:47] Parenting, Anxiety, & Closing Reflections

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1. James Comey Indicted: Legal & Political Analysis

Starts at [03:28]

Main Theme

The episode opens with in-depth analysis of the federal indictment against former FBI Director James Comey. The indictment covers two felony counts: false statements to Congress and obstruction of a congressional proceeding.

Key Points

• Allegations: Comey allegedly lied to Congress about not authorizing leaks related to Trump and Hillary investigations, and obstructed Congress.
• Indictment Details: The actual indictment is described as “incredibly thin,” lacking specifics about which leaks or articles are involved.
• Potential Evidence: Leaks to the Wall Street Journal in October 2016, possibly authorized through James Baker (FBI General Counsel) and Andy McCabe (FBI Deputy Director), are discussed as probable pillars of the case.
• Testimonial Discrepancy: Debate focuses on whether Comey’s congressional testimony constituted a prosecutable lie, especially the exchange with Ted Cruz where Comey reaffirmed his 2017 statements in 2020.
• Guest Views:
  • Mike Davis ([03:28]): “James Comey is a saboteur of the duly elected President of the United States, and he can go to prison and he can also go to hell.”
  • John Solomon ([07:22]): “This is the thinnest worded dog indictment I have ever seen as a reporter. It is so lean.”
  • Dave Aronberg ([13:27]): Urges caution, emphasizing ambiguity in what the leak actually was and argues about the viability of a “vindictive prosecution” defense.
• Selective/Malicious Prosecution: Discussion of whether the case is retribution for lawfare used against Trump, citing public and private pressure on both Trump and Biden DOJs.
  • Mike Davis ([43:00]): “I want these prosecutions and I’m malicious about it. So does that make it a malicious prosecution? Maybe, but I don’t give a damn.”

Notable Quotes

• “[Comey] lied to Congress... There was a grand jury that found probable cause.” (Mike Davis, [03:28])
• “The indictment is so thin, I was looking for an introduction. Didn’t even get that.” (John Solomon, [07:18])
• “You can say he’s playing word games, but I don’t see anything that’s specifically false in what he said.” (Dave Aronberg, [23:51])
• “Revenge is best served cold.” (Mike Davis, [43:00])

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2. Kamala Harris Book Tour & “Word Salad” Moments

Starts at [56:53]

Theme

The panel mocks Vice President Kamala Harris’s latest public appearances, her unrelenting delivery of “word salad” rhetoric, and her children’s book that, according to Maureen Callahan, is “fourth grade reading level, yet very, very rough going.” They highlight how Harris’s attempts at inspiration often dissolve into incoherence during interviews promoting her book.

Key Moments & Quotes

• Kamala on Rally Memories ([59:38]):
  “The children of the community are the children of the community...”
  Megyn: “She says nothing.”
  Maureen: “Babies come. So I’m picturing we’re at Bagram Air Force Base... we’re bringing a baby, we’re passing a baby through a crowd of strangers, and it’s gonna wind up somehow in Kamala’s safe hands. Oh my God. Is America the baby?” ([61:24])
• Book Tour Protestors ([62:48]): Harris is heckled by Gaza protestors; she tries unsuccessfully to calm the crowd and pivot back to promoting her book.
  • Megyn: “I love that she tried to hawk her book to the Hamasniks.”
• The “Belulu” Crowd ([64:23]): Discussion of a niche online group that bizarrely believes Kamala Harris actually won the presidency.

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3. Hoda Kotb’s Word Salad: Mocking Celebrity Self-Help

Starts at [92:46]

Theme

Megyn and Maureen go after Hoda Kotb’s new book “Jump and Find Joy,” lampooning its recycled “change expert” advice and the endless rehashing of Hoda’s career and relationships.

Key Points

• Maureen refuses to buy the book at her local shop: “I was at a local bookstore yesterday and I was like, I cannot buy this book and approach any register.”
• The panel mocks Hoda’s wisdom—“the wisdom of change experts”—and the self-indulgent narrative surrounding her split from Joel Schiffman (father of her two adopted daughters).
• Hoda’s TV appearances to promote the book are labeled performative, with Megyn and Maureen cringing over the forced enthusiasm and repetitive storytelling.

Notable Quotes

• “[Hoda] just kind of threw away the relationship...rather cavalierly after an epiphany at the Hoffman Institute that things were not deepening.” (Megyn, [97:10])
• “If you’re perseverating on...you, you, you, you, you. You are a bore. You are a limited, non-intellectual, non-interesting person.” (Maureen, [97:35])

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4. Celebrity & Cultural Commentary

Starts at [105:37]

a. Serena Williams’ “Triggered by Cotton” Moment

Serena posts a social media video expressing discomfort at decorative cotton balls in her luxury hotel, citing “trauma.”

• Megyn: Mocks the performative victimhood given Williams’s immense wealth and status: “That’s like me being like, I can’t walk by the potatoes in Whole Foods because my Irish people... the potato famine.”
• Maureen: “She was always a brat...”

b. Meghan Markle’s Bloomberg Interview

Analyzing Markle’s attempts at relatability while lamenting royal dress codes (e.g., “nude pantyhose”) and promoting her domesticity-themed projects.

• Maureen: Identifies Markle’s inauthenticity and lack of self-awareness, “She should have said, first of all, you’re an idiot. Let’s start with that.”

c. Hilaria Baldwin’s Ongoing Accent Fiasco

Lampooning Hilaria (aka Hillary from Rhode Island) for continuing her fake Spanish accent on “Dancing with the Stars” and in a podcast with her daughter.

• Maureen: “It’s like a pathological...the DSM needs a new categorization...name it: Hilaria Baldwin.”

d. Violet Affleck’s Mask Advocacy at the UN

Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck’s daughter delivers a speech at the UN, still masked, calling for pandemic protections.

• Megyn: Frames it as a parenting failure: “This girl is as addled as somebody who’s an active anorexic or in a deep depression or has...crippling anxiety, which is clearly what we’re looking at there.”
• Maureen: “She’s coming at the world from a fearful place. Like you should be spreading your wings at college...and this girl is hunkering down...that’s tragic.”
• Analysis of “celebrity parenting gone wrong”: Both hosts lament indulgent Hollywood parents failing to provide stability and resilience.

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5. Forgiveness, Grief, & Faith: Tim Allen’s Revelation

Starts at [129:10]

Theme

• Tim Allen publicly credits Erica Kirk’s forgiveness of her husband Charlie’s killer as the inspiration to finally forgive the man who killed his own father 60 years ago.
• Megyn and Maureen reflect candidly on forgiveness versus retribution, the human tendency toward anger, and the “extraordinary faith” of Erica Kirk.
• Discussion of individual capacities to forgive—and whether, as Maureen admits, “there are people who don’t deserve it.”
• Megyn: “What if Erica was always meant...to have the biggest impact on the world, on America, on young people?”

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6. Media, Hypocrisy, and Humor

Scattered, e.g. [146:12]–[150:21]

• Jimmy Kimmel’s Tearful Self-Defense: Eviscerated for performative emotion over his show’s cancellation controversy:
  • Maureen: “Jimmy Kimmel. I look at the sudden weeping out of nowhere and I’m like, this guy’s not well.”
• Hollywood Insiders: Matt Damon, Jennifer Aniston noted for their conspicuous silence—implying even A-listers know when to steer clear of toxic topics.
• Megyn’s Own Reflections: On MSNBC/NBC, Kelly reveals, “I really do think I was suffering a temporary bout of insanity,” referencing her stint at NBC.

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7. Uplifting Endnote: Finding Meaning in Small Moments

Ends at [171:46]

• Megyn recounts attendance at her daughter’s high school soccer game:

  • “That's it. That's what you need, you know—moments with your friends or your family...This is the good stuff that gets us through.”

• Maureen:
  “When you find those people [true friends]...that’s the stuff where you feel there’s a bit of, like, Matthew McConaughey would probably say, stardust at work.”

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Memorable Quotes – Speaker & Timestamp

• “James Comey...is a saboteur...he can go to prison and he can also go to hell.”
  — Mike Davis, [03:28]
• “This is the thinnest worded dog indictment I have ever seen as a reporter.”
  — John Solomon, [07:18]
• "She says nothing. Communal responsibility and community. And the baby, Maureen, the baby."
  — Megyn Kelly, [61:02], on Kamala Harris’s “word salad”
• “We miss you so much. I like holding your hands.”
  — Hoda Kotb, [98:39], mocked for forced enthusiasm
• "If you’re perseverating on...you, you, you, you, you. You are a bore."
  — Maureen Callahan, [97:35]
• “That’s like me being like, I can’t walk by the potatoes in Whole Foods because my Irish people... the potato famine.”
  — Megyn Kelly, [109:55], on Serena Williams’s “trauma” over cotton
• “That person is not Spanish.”
  — Megyn Kelly, [152:11], on Hilaria Baldwin
• "You are a white girl from Rhode Island."
  — Maureen Callahan, [152:03]
• “[Violet Affleck’s masking] is a form of child abuse.”
  — Megyn Kelly & Maureen Callahan, [159:11]

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Episode Tone and Structure

• Energetic, sharp, and unsparing in critique
• Interspersed political/legal analysis with cultural and personal anecdotes
• Frequent use of sarcasm and humor, especially when dissecting celebrity or “woke” culture
• Willingness to pivot from policy/law to pop culture, family, and profound themes of faith, grief, and resilience

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Conclusion

This edition of The Megyn Kelly Show blends rigorous political/legal commentary (Comey indictment, lawfare) with unvarnished takes on contemporary culture and moments of heartfelt candor about loss, faith, and finding meaning in small victories. It’s a masterclass in rapid-fire, unscripted conversation—by turns analytical, hilarious, biting, and deeply human.

Transcript

[Maureen Callahan]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Go to 1-800-flowers.com Pandora that's 1-800-flowers. Com Pandora welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. Maureen Callahan will be here with me soon to discuss Kamala Harris disastrous book tour and more. But we of course begin today with the historic indictment of FBI director for former James Comey. It happened last night in the Eastern District of Virginia federal court. He faces two felony counts, false statements to Congress and obstruction of a congressional proceeding. Both carry up to five years in prison. It's massive news. Not gonna wait to get to our experts on this. Joining us now, MK True Crime contributor Dave Aronberg, former prosecutor and Article 3 Project founder and president Mike Davis. These two have been sparring about lawfare involving and against Trump for years. Now they'll spar about lawfare initiated by the Trump administration. And just the news. Founder and editor in chief John Solomon is with me as well. I want to talk to you about Jevoty. In my career, I've learned that information is everything. And the same, of course, applies to our health. Having the right info makes all the difference. That is where Jeopardy comes in. It's not just another health app. It's a longevity and health optimization platform that uses your health data to build custom care plans for your unique needs. Jevy creates personalized supplement packs based on your specific blood work and they provide ongoing guidance to you. No more fragmented healthcare or wasting money on random supplements. Hoping something works. This platform analyzes essential biomarkers, giving you comprehensive health data, all accessible from home. So go to jevity.com Megan and get 20% off with code. Megan that's gojevity.com Megan all right, you gotta put the word go first. Go. G E V I T I.com Megan In a world of one size fits all solutions, Jevity brings clarity, personalization, and scientific precision to your wellness. This is not just healthcare. It is healthcare reimagined with you in mind. I'm gonna start with you, Mike Davis, because I think you're closer than anybody here to the administration. What has Jim Comey been indicted for?

[Mike Davis]

Well, thank you for having me on. John's also very close. But I would say this, that Jim Comey was indicted because he lied to Congress. So 18 USC 1001 false statements, and then he obstructed a congressional proceeding or investigation. So it's pretty cool. Clear cuts that he did both of those things. He had a. There was a grand jury that found probable cause that both of those things happened. And so that's why Jim Comey, the former FBI director, is facing indictment. I will say that I, I shouldn't take glee in someone being indicted, but I do. I'll be honest with same. James Comey is a scumbag. He made up the Russian collusion hoax, the crossfire hurricane investigation. He set up General, General Flynn as the incoming national security adviser. This guy is a saboteur of the duly elected President of the United States and he can go to prison and he can also go to hell.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I appreciate your candor. I really do. Honestly, I'm feeling the same. I have absolutely no empathy for James Comey. He seems like a genuinely bad guy to me. It seems like he committed multiple crimes that he got away with because the statute of limitations expired. And now our only question today is to figure out whether these are viable and valid and whether he'll and. Or whether he'll be able to get them dismissed for whatever reason and we can go through them. All right, so I didn't get the answer, the actual answer. I'm going to try with John on. Okay, I get that those are the legal claims. You know, I get it. There are two counts against him. What were the lies? Because I like you guys have read the two page indictment, and it's very thin. It does not tell us what is the perjury. I mean, it says, okay, he testified during a Senate Judiciary committee hearing that he had not authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports. Okay, he had not authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation concerning person one. We don't know who that is. Okay, then they say that was false because he had. He had done that. Now, what's not in here, John, is what, what. What are they talking about? What. Who did he authorize to be an anonymous source? And what news reports do we know?

[John Solomon]

We don't yet. I mean, we think. We think it involves an October 2016 leak to the Wall Street Journal about the Hillary Clinton investigation. And there are two people that have come forward. We have their documents, we've made them public that say that. That James Comey authorized them to leak to the news media. One of them is Andy McCabe. And he. McCabe has a credibility issue. He's a guy that was. Found himself to have lied in an inspector general report. But he was a deputy director in the inner circle of James Comey's team. And then the second is James Baker, a highly respected general counsel at the FBI. He has not been indicted or accused of any wrongdoing. And he said, listen, I'm just going to be straight with you guys. When he was interviewed by the Postal Inspection Service, they brought them in as an independent agency when they were looking at leaking during the Comey years. Hey, James Comey asked me to leak. And he not only asked me to leak, he asked me to leak classified information. And that instruction came through his chief of staff, James Rebicki. So both men claim that they were authorized to leak in this time frame around the October 2016 Wall Street Journal article. Now, I will agree with you, Megan. This is the thinnest worded dog indictment I have ever seen as a reporter. It is so lean. I was looking for an introduction. Didn't even get that.

[Megyn Kelly]

We will get shot up with a zempic. That is how lean it is.

[John Solomon]

Exactly. We're going to get more details next week. I think there'll be some. Either an FBI affidavit in support of it or when the. And then when the arraignment comes, we'll get a little bit more detail. But I was shocked by the leanness. Based on the documents we have, we believe it involves that Wall street journal article in October 2016.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, before we move on from that point, you said, okay, possibly he leaked to Andy McCabe, who was his deputy at the FBI, and possibly to James Baker, who worked for him at the FBI, asked him to leak.

[John Solomon]

Ask them to leak.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, sorry, sorry. Asked them to leak while they were all FBI employees. Now, the Andy McCabe leak that you're referencing, is that the one that Andy McCabe already got reamed by the DOJ inspector general for. Because there was a difference of opinion. Andy McCabe leaked to the Journal and then he came out and said, I did it, but Comey kind of authorized it after the fact. I told Comey about it and he. He authorized it. Not before the fact. But then the inspector general just laid into Comey and the inspector general certainly seemed to think that that laid into McCabe seemed to think that McCabe was the liar because Comey was like, I didn't authorize it. McCabe was like, he did, though it was after the fact. And it seemed like the inspector general was like, McCabe is the liar. And I'm actually thinking he should. He might potentially need to get prosecuted for lying. It didn't happen. So is that the possible McCabe leak that you and I are talking about right now?

[John Solomon]

Yeah, listen, they're all talking about the same story. And who leaked when what and who approved what when. What's most important in this chain of events. The one clearest direction to leak, one that doesn't have the muddled up analysis of the Inspector general or the problems of Andy McCabe's own credibility, is what James Baker said. James Baker is unequivocal in his interview with the Postal Inspection Service. We put that document out. You were kind enough to have me on your show. We talked about it then. I think it's a really important document. It is a claim by a member of the Comey inner circle that he was instructed in advance to leak something and that what he leaked was classified information and that that instruction came from James Comey through the Chief of staff. So if you're the United States Justice Department, when you bring this case, you're going to have to bring in James Rebicki, James Baker and Andy McCabe and you're going to synchronize their stories. Rebecci is the Chief of staff who allegedly gave the instruction from Comey to there. Now, we also know that there are some emails and text messages and I would surprised that in the next version of this indictment or the next affidavit from the FBI agent that we get a little bit more flesh on the bone. But there's a lot to still be answered here. And I think that our suspicions are well founded. We need to get more data than we got in the original indictment.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is the James Baker leak what you and I discussed that was in the Durham annex, that had been kept hidden from us and just got released in the latest tranche or where, where did that come from?

[John Solomon]

The Baker leak is actually in A timeline that Cash Patel found buried in a system in the FBI. And it's a timeline of all the leak investigations that occurred in the Comey Ray era. And in there, there were some remarkable claims. And when they first got released by the Trump Justice Department, ironically, the Trump Justice Department redacted the most important piece of information, this story by James Baker. We appealed to the Justice Department and Pam Bonney intervened and got it unredacted, and that's when we got this piece. So it's a timeline that someone in the FBI decided to write. When you look at it, it looks a little bit like a CYA timeline. Like, hey, if anyone ever asks, I want you to let you know what really went on with these leak investigations. And in the middle of that timeline is this extraordinary story, which we have corroborated independent of the timeline that Baker gave this testimony, and he stands by that testimony to this very day.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's not good for Comey, but I'm sure it was like finding a pot of gold for the Trump doj, which suspected Comey was a bad guy and that there would be proof of some potential crime and I think may have stumbled upon it. So, long story short, Mike, before I go to Dave, don't believe the mainstream media that this is a. And we'll get to the political motivation, all that. But like that, that on the merits, this is a baloney case. This actually could have real substance. If you have James Baker saying, jim Comey through his intermediary, told me to leak, and I did leak on that direction. And Jim Comey under oath, it's on camera saying, no, I didn't.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah, I mean, look, you're looking at the grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia, which is filled with Democrats and government workers right across the Potomac river from the grand jury in D.C. that refuses to. To indict violent criminals. And so there is definitely probable cause to move forward with these indictments if the grand jury found that there was probable cause. This is not some Southern District of Texas grand jury. Again, Eastern District of Virginia.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, now, Dave, here we go to you what Jim Comey hired Patrick Fitzgerald, a former federal prosecutor, the guy who went after Scooter Libby, among others. And he's sort of known as a Joe Friday kind of lawyer. It depends on who you ask. But he knows his way around a federal courthouse, that's for sure. He put out a very slim two line statement saying, we look forward to his complete vindication in court. And then you got the weepy sort of soft voice. Jim Comey long like I'm innocent and don't get down on your knees and vote like your government and your country depend on the self serving, sanctimonious Comey act. I don't know if I have it in me to play it. We did it on AM Update, but let's say you're talking to Pat Fitzgerald and the two of you are chatting about how you're going to go after this. Again, we're talking about legal merits. Now we'll get to whether this is politically motivated. Unless you think that's relevant to how you'll go after it. What do you say?

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, Megan, you asked the right question from the beginning. We don't know what the leak was, and that's crucial here. Okay. Aside from their strategy, which will be focused on vindictive prosecution and selective prosecution so it never gets to a jury, we still need to know what was the leak, what was the article? And for that I would like to ask John Solomon, because then I have a response to that. What was the article that James Baker allegedly leaked?

[John Solomon]

It was a consequential story that a lot of people believe, at least Hillary Clinton believes swung the election. There's an irony in this that he's being prosecuted for leaking a story that may have been damaging to Hillary Clinton. It was about what was going on in the Hillary Clinton email case and the Anthony Weiner laptop and what went on in that period of time. Isn't it an irony that what may ultimately be, if this turns out to be the article again, the indictment is so thin we don't know what article they were speaking about.

[Megyn Kelly]

But just to clarify, and I'll give it back to you in a second, Dave, but that just to clarify. So that article was one, if memory serves, in which the FBI outed that it was having a war with the DOJ about what to do about Hillary and all those emails.

[John Solomon]

That's right. That's right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[John Solomon]

And then there's a piece of classified information that's disclosed.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. Okay. Go ahead, Dave.

[Dave Aronberg]

If it's about Hillary Clinton and Andrew McCabe. Meghan, you're correct. The inspector general found that it was Andrew McCabe was the one who could not be trusted, lack candor. And that he said after the fact he told Comey that he had leaked this stuff. And Comey shrugged. It was not an authorization. Authorization has to be done beforehand, not afterwards. Right. But then John Solomon correctly brings up James Baker, which is separate because McCabe has his own issues here. Baker did come clean and say there was A leak. But here's the thing. It looks like, according to the documents that are involved here, which we're all basing after, the article that James Baker led to, that he leaked for, was not a Hillary Clinton article, but something totally different. Because if you look at the documents, it says that this article appeared in October 2016, that it was sourced to two government officials, it contained classified information and involved, of course, the FBI. There's only one news article that meets that criteria. According to the New York Times, if you do a search, and it's an article about Yahoo aiding the US Email surveillance by adapting a spam filter, not the Hillary Clinton stuff. Right. So if that's the case. Right. And if John agrees, if that's the.

[Maureen Callahan]

Case, he's got an.

[Megyn Kelly]

There is no lie.

[Dave Aronberg]

That's right. Because you remember what the question was by Cruz. It had to be called the Clinton.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Cruz teed it up when he was getting Comey on the record because just for the audience at home, because I know this is a lot to follow, Comey was Under Oath in 17, and Chuck Grassley of Iowa asked him, a Republican, did, have you leaked and have you authorized anybody to leak? And he said no and no. Well, if we can't get him on those charges, because that's a long time ago and you have to, it's only five year statute of limitations. But in 2020, they had another shot at Comey. And Ted Cruz brought up the Grassley testimony and said, do you stand by all that? Because, by the way, Andrew McCabe suggests you did tell him to leak. But in any event, do you stand by that earlier testimony to Chuck Grassley? And Comey said, yes, but it was specifically about did you leak about the Hillary investigation the FBI was doing or the Trump administration? Here's the Ted Cruz exchange that, you know, we believe has led to this indictment. We're pretty sure the Ted Cruz exchange is the basis of the indictment. We're just not sure exactly which leak or article he's talking about here.

[Dave Aronberg]

On May 3, 2017, in this committee, Chairman Grassley asked you point blank, quote, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation, of the Clinton investigation? You responded under oath, quote, never. He then asked you, quote, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton administration? You responded, again under oath, no. Now, as you know, Mr. McCabe, who works for you, has publicly and repeatedly stated that he leaked information to the Wall Street Journal and that you were directly aware of it and that you directly authorized it. Now, what Mr. McCabe is saying and what you testified to this committee cannot both be true. One or the other is false. Who's telling the truth?

[John Solomon]

I can only speak to my testimony. I stand by what the testimony you summarized that I gave in May of 2017.

[Dave Aronberg]

So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak and Mr. McCabe, when if he says contrary, is not telling the truth. Is that correct?

[John Solomon]

Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so just to go back to John Solomon for a second, what's your response to Dave's point that the only thing he thinks James Baker was involved in leaking is about a Yahoo article.

[John Solomon]

We don't know which one. The classified. We still don't know what James Baker leaked. We know it's in the same time frame as the article. Of that we know it's the same time frame where they're asking, asking McCabe what I think is problematic for the prosecution there is that Ted Cruz's question goes two different ways. When he starts it, it's did you ever leak about the Trump administration or Trump investigation in Clinton and he ends it. You asking did you ever leak at all or authorize anyone to leak at all? That's going to be an ambiguous. If they're resting the case on that second follow up on Ted Cruz, which we don't know yet because we have so little information, a jury's going to say, man, we are really starting to split hairs here on. But you're trying to pin Comey down. I think one of our problems right now to judge the strength of this indictment is we need to know exactly what the grand jury made the decision on. Grand juries are pretty perceptive. They sometimes have lawyers on them, which is a good thing. There has to be something more than what we're able to speculate on here for the grand jury to make that decision. But we're flying blind. And I think that David has got some really great points. I have wondered for the last 24 hours. I can't tell exactly what they've indicted to come before. Specifically, I know what they've indicted legal charges, but it's been very difficult to understand what the actual transmission of information is.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, I'm going to go back to Mike Davis, but first I just want to just say this again for the audience. He told Ted Cruz that he never authorized anyone at the FBI to be an anonymous source on news reports about the Trump investigation or the Hillary investigation? He did affirm that. He said, I'm giving you the same testimony that I gave in May of 17. My testimony is the same today as it was in May of 17. Never authorize someone at the FBI to be an anonymous source on news reports about the Trump investigation or the Hillary investigation. I just want to take one quick look at the original. The original testimony. I think we have this to Senator Grassley in 17 that again, he affirmed in 2020. It's three.

[Mike Davis]

Director Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

[Megyn Kelly]

Never.

[Mike Davis]

Have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

[Megyn Kelly]

No. That's clean.

[Mike Davis]

Has any classified information relating to President Trump or his association associates been declassified or. And shared with the media?

[Megyn Kelly]

Not to my knowledge. All right, those first two are very clean, Mike. And he did reaffirm it to Ted Cruz. No, never. I did not leak. I did not authorize anyone to leak. And then with Ted Cruz, he says explicitly, I stand by the testimony that. That I gave in May of 2017. My testimony is the same today. So to me, that is very clear. He's saying, I did not authorize anyone to leak about either of those two subjects. What do you make of what John is saying, Mike, about. You got Andy McCabe on the one hand, who's already been deemed the liar in that confrontation, you know, between him and Comey by the inspector general, and then the second one, Baker, which Dave is arguing the only leak we can. We appear at this point to be able to pin on Baker is about something not having to do with a Trump or Hillary investigation.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah, I mean, I would say this. Those clips you just played, Megan, show that James Cony, Comey clearly lied when he testified to my former boss, Chuck Grassley, in 2017. He was under oath. That's perjury. We're beyond the statute of limitations for that one. But in 2020, he lied again under oath to Ted Cruz when he reaffirmed that testimony. And so I would say this about James Comey. He's lucky the grand jury did not indict him for perjury. They indicted him for. For false statements and an obstruction of a congressional investigation. And so I think it's very clear that he provided false statements under 18 USC 1001. I agree that Dave makes good points. Those are arguments that will be made to the jury What.

[Megyn Kelly]

What's the difference between perjury and false statements?

[Mike Davis]

False statements don't have to be under oath, but it's. They're very similar crimes. Perjury is when you are under oath. And false statements, it's just false statements to Congress, to federal law enforcement, to Congress. It's. So they're. They're similar.

[Megyn Kelly]

What can you glean then, Mike, from the fact that they went for the false statements count but not for the perjury count? What do you think the grand jurors are trying to tell us?

[Mike Davis]

They probably are in the Dave camp, that they don't think that this is a slam dunk case, and so they indict it for false statements, and they did not indict for perjury.

[Megyn Kelly]

Go ahead, Dave.

[Dave Aronberg]

What is the false state? Yeah, I'm just curious, Mike. What is the false statement to you? Like what I don't gather here is the false statement. Because when I parse the words, you can say he's playing word games, but I don't see anything that's specifically false in what he said. Which is it?

[Mike Davis]

Well, I mean, I think the grand jury indicted because he reaffirmed his 2017 testimony in 2020, and so they.

[Dave Aronberg]

But what was the false testimony back in 2017 that he.

[Mike Davis]

I mean, we just played it. It was that he.

[Megyn Kelly]

That he never authorized the leak about those two subjects. Yeah, right.

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, and, you know, my response to that is that first, he didn't authorize any lead to McCabe. But in the Arctic Hayes investigation, which I think would be the best.

[Megyn Kelly]

No one knows what that is.

[Dave Aronberg]

All right, I was about to explain it. The Arctic Hayes investigation is the leak that Comey did. And he acknowledged he did this back in 2017, right after he was fired. He told his friend who used to work at the FBI, a guy named Daniel Richmond, and he's like a law professor at confidant. He told him to leak one of Comey's memos about Michael Flynn to the New York Times, and he did. That was an authorization. That was a leak. The reason why it's not covered here, the reason why I say it's not a lie, it's because at the time, Daniel Richmond did not work for the FBI, and neither did Comey. So that's why I don't think it's a false statement. But that's what I think is the strongest argument for the prosecution here.

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know. There were. John Solomon, you're an expert on this guy. This Columbia law professor who is a friend of Comey's. You and I have talked about him before. There wasn't just that leak. There were leaks by Comey to Richmond. While Richmond was a special government employee for the FBI and was leaking for Comey. That. That did happen. I'm not sure whether that's what this indictments based on. We're all on the board with the blindfold on now. I don't know whether that's true. You take it from here, John, because you. I know you just did reporting on this.

[John Solomon]

I want to. Yeah, we listen. Richmond is very clear that he was leaking on behalf of Comey and trying to craft a narrative for Comey prior to Comey leaving the directorship. And then he. He's unclear. He's unclear as to whether or not he remembers if Comey specifically authorized it or he just did it because he knew that's what Comey wanted. But remember, there's some evidence we don't know about. As I mentioned earlier, I'm told that there are some text messages and emails that will be dispositive as this case goes forward. So I think we have to wait and see what is. I think I'd like to go back if. Megan, if you could do it. When. When Ted Cruz goes back the second time and reaffirms what he just heard from Comey, he broadens the claim. And I think that's something I just want to hear again. Maybe we all should hear.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, let's play it again.

[John Solomon]

He doesn't narrow it to Clinton and Trump anymore. He says if you. I just want to make sure you're saying you never asked anyone to ever leak. See if you can play that, because I think he broadens the claim there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Here we go. Stop for.

[Dave Aronberg]

On May 3, 2017, in this committee, Chairman Grassley asked you point blank, quote, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation of the Clinton investigation? You responded under oath, quote, never. He then asked you, quote, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton administration? You responded again under oath. No. Now, as you know, Mr. McCabe, who works for you, has publicly and repeatedly stated that he leaked information to the Wall Street Journal and that you were directly aware of it and that you directly authorized it. Now, what Mr. McCabe is saying and what you testified to this committee, cannot both be true. One or the other is false. Who's telling the truth?

[John Solomon]

I can only speak to my testimony. I stand by what the testimony you Summarized that I gave in May of 2017.

[Dave Aronberg]

So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak and Mr. McCabe, when if he says contrary is not telling the truth, is that correct?

[John Solomon]

Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today.

[Megyn Kelly]

So that's the piece you're talking about.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, he drops out Clinton and Trump at that point. Now, again, listen, I think we're splitting here is more getting this and I'm not sure grand jury would have tolerated that level of splitting here years. But I did notice that in the follow up question and it's very interesting that the, the indictment makes no reference to 2017 testimony. It's not trying to tie back to 2017. So it'll be very interesting to see if that change of words, that flip from Cruz is part of it. I suspect there's some evidence we don't know about when we got that timeline that I told you about. Megan. There are massive amounts of that timeline that are still blacked out. They're redacted because they're covered by grand jury information. I suspect there's some additional evidence we don't know yet. Not yet know about. And that's why I'm eager to see the next version of the indictment because it needs a little bit more meat on the bones for us to have a really informed debate.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Okay. So the. Where the way things stands stand now are he's been indicted by this new Acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. Clearly brought there because the federal district in Washington D.C. would be a complete waste of time. That's. There's no way they're gonna do anything fair for any.

[John Solomon]

There's another reason though, Megan.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I know Comey was there when he gave the testimony, I think. Right.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, that's the jurisdiction. Yeah, that's right. That's where the crime.

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't think that's the reason. I don't think that's the reason. I think that's that they had.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, that is, that's.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, that's right. No, there's nothing improper about bringing it there. I'm just explaining why it was there instead of in D.C. where Congress is. So they, they, they brought the charges saying Comey lied when he said he never authorized somebody to leak. That's what this case is about. He lied when he said he never authorized anyone to leak. And it depends on whether it's limited. John, suggesting maybe it's him answering the Ted Cruz wider question where he said, so your testimony is You've never authorized anyone to leak. Was he saying, that's my testimony? And so you've got, it goes beyond the Clinton and the Trump investigation or is it limited to Clinton and Trump and they have proof of it in some text or other form that he did so authorize. Okay. So that now we're, you know, Bob's your uncle. We're off on the merits about whether he did that or he didn't. And he's going to get his day in court. However, before we get there, we are going to get a selective or malicious prosecution defense. Mike Davis, and that is something that is raised with the judge on the papers. The jury doesn't decide that. The judge looks at the facts. And this guy who's been appointed, well, not appointed, but he pulled the case. Judge Michael Nachmanoff is an interesting judge. Career basically as a federal defender, a federal criminal defender. So he's not a prosecutor. That's fine. He was appointed by Biden in 21. That's them's the breaks. We have, we have lawyers and we have judges from both Republican and Democrat appointees. Now somebody we follow on X here on this show, William Shipley. He has very smart legal analysis and he said the following. Of all the Biden appointees in the Eastern District of Virginia, Judge Nachmanoff is probably the best potential draw he means for Trump. He does not have a background that suggests progressive activism, as is true of many Biden appointed district judges, particularly those he writes in the last two years of his administration. Nachmanoff, his entire career in private practice was in federal criminal defense work. That's not the same kind of bubbling cauldron of social justice warrior that you find in public interest law firms on the radical left. He says this is generally not the profile of an activist progressive judge. This is just a trial attorney attracted to criminal defense work. What is your take on this draw and who it helps?

[Mike Davis]

I mean, I think Bill Shipley. He's a friend. He's a very smart guy. I will say this. You had two Democrat senators in Virginia, so you're not going to have a blue slip problem. Where the home state senators. There wasn't a Republican home state senator that would have made them pick a more moderate pick. There are a lot of potential picks for the Eastern District of Virginia. It's a very coveted judgeship. And I seriously doubt that the Biden White House put someone who's just going to call balls and strikes in the Eastern District of Virginia because they didn't do it anywhere else where they, where they could have put in a radical. They always did.

[Megyn Kelly]

So, Dave, this argument, and to be honest with you, I don't totally understand the difference between malicious prosecution and selective prosecution. And are those both defenses that can be raised? And also, can you please talk about how they're going to argue that, yes.

[Dave Aronberg]

They'Re going to use the President's words against him. That's where the social media post will hurt him. And I don't know if that was meant to be a direct message directly to Attorney General Bondi or broadcast to everyone, but he then deleted it. And the fact that he fired Eric Siebert, who was a respected conservative, acting U.S. attorney in that district, because he refused to prosecute James Comey and replace them with someone who had never prosecuted a case before and had to go.

[Megyn Kelly]

In to do it. Or was it Letitia James that he was dragging his feet on?

[Dave Aronberg]

He was mad at both. But by the way, I assume that our friend Mike Davis would be friends with him because Mike Davis is friends with every conservative lawyer in the country. So I assume you know Eric Siebert.

[John Solomon]

Right?

[Megyn Kelly]

And.

[Mike Davis]

He seems like a very nice guy. He seems like a very typical Washington D.C. republican. I would say maybe the Democrats in Virginia, the two Democrats senators in Virginia who agreed to his nomination would be very pleased with a Republican like Siebert.

[Dave Aronberg]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

It is tricky. It is tricky. And what's Mike saying, and I get it, is as you know, Dave, within the Republican Party you've got the ones who are maga and then you've got the more old school, more establishment types. And to get through as the U.S. attorney approved by the two Democrat senators from Virginia, you'd probably do better if you were the more establishment type and not a MAGA acolyte. So that's, I mean, what he seems to be saying.

[Mike Davis]

Can I just say this very fast, Dave? I would not get a blue slip from any Democrat in America. I probably wouldn't get a blue slip from any Republican in America. But Sebert would probably get a blue slip from any Democrat in America.

[John Solomon]

So he is, I thought a blue.

[Dave Aronberg]

Slip is when you're rejected. I thought that's like a black ball is the blue slip.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, no slip is green light.

[Mike Davis]

When the senators return these stupid blue slips, then you can get that. It's 100 year old tradition in the Senate where the home state senators have an absolute veto over U.S. attorney, U.S. marshal and District Court judge. And so.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, but when I move to Florida or when Dave moves to Connecticut and we become the two state senators or US Senators from this day, we would definitely blue slip you, Mike Davis. We would. You would sail through no matter what partisan stripes we had. All right, keep going, Dave.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yes, well, so when it comes to vindictive prosecution, that's what they're gonna rely on. And they're gonna use the President's words here rather than the prosecutor's words. Although they'll show that the U.S. attorney, the acting U.S. attorney, was someone who was appointed for this purpose. And within days later, she went into court herself. She didn't even use any of her career prosecutors, perhaps because they didn't want to do it, and she got the indictment herself. So when you prove a vindictive prosecution claim, the burden's on the defense and they have to make a prima facie showing. You gotta show enough evidence. And then it shifts, the burden shifts to the prosecution to show that they had some sort of legitimate, non vindictive reason for the charge. So it's tough to prove. But I think if there's a. I think this is a legitimate case because the President's words will be used against him. That's why he deleted them shortly thereafter.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'll read the post that you're referring to. I will say this before I forget. On malicious prosecution, typically it is raised as a defense when, like the classic example is a defendant asserts his right to a speedy trial or won't cop a plea and insists on a trial, which is a pain in the ass for the prosecutor. And then the prosecutor ups the ante, like, now we're going for the death penalty. That. That would be your classic malicious prosecution claim where the judge says, no, no, you can't punish a guy for exercising his constitutional rights like this. This is different. You know, this is like you've only brought the case because you're mad at me for, you know, doing bad things to your people. And my favorite, in the past, you know, whatever. It's been 12, 14 hours since this news broke. My favorite post. Once again, it's almost true every day. Stephen L. Miller. Not the Stephen Miller. This is a different guy, goes by Red Steez on X. Keeps posting when everybody says, this is retribution, this is retribution. This is retribution. He keeps posting for what? For what? It's exactly right. For what was done to Trump. For malicious prosecution that was done to Trump and all of his staff. It's like, yes, that's probably exactly how we got here. I mean, everybody knows that's what we're doing here. The only question is whether it's still appropriate because there's a good faith basis that he actually did commit a crime and now he's going to have to feel the punishment of it. But like I don't think most of us think we'd be here if they hadn't done this to Mike Flynn and they hadn't done this to Steve Bannon. They hadn't gone after Peter Navarro and they hadn't gone after Roger Stone and they hadn't got after Donald Trump four times. Of course that was the motivation. Retribution for what? Fill in the blank. New York Times Here is the the post that could prove problematic if they do raise malicious prosecution. And this happened just a couple of days ago. 92025 is the date Pam and there is speculate we actually never figured Trump almost never deletes his true social posts. This one was posted and people said that reads more like a direct message than a classic Trump post. And then he took it down which only fueled that fire more. Here's what he writes Pam Colon like it's a message to her. I've reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that. Essentially same old story as last time. All talk, no action, nothing is being done. What about Comey Adam Shifty Schiff? Letitia it's very funny if it's a direct message that he even calls him Shifty shift in his DMs. It's not that. It's not just for show. They're all guilty as hell but nothing's going to be done. Then we almost put in a Democrat supported U.S. attorney in Virginia with a really bad Republican past awoke Rhino who was never going to do his job. That's why two of the worst Dem senators pushed him so hard. He we're talking about Siebert here. The guy who either was fired or withdrew this week or Friday. He even lied to the media and said he quit and that we had no case. No I fired him and there is a great case and many lawyers and legal pundits say so. Lindsey Halligan is a really good lawyer and likes you a lot. We can't delay any longer. It's killing our reputation and credibility. They impeached me twice and indicted me five times over nothing. Justice must be served. Now President DJT which is also funny. If it's a direct message to her, you have to laugh. We okay so Lindsey Halligan is 36 years old, seems like a very nice lady, but in no world would normally be getting appointed as the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. Speaking of Ozempic infested documents, that's what her Resume is when it comes to the qualify of qualifications for this particular job. With all due respect, I'm sure she's a good lawyer. She worked for President Trump personally. That's how he knows her. But I'm just gonna say this person's elevation to this level of a post is kind of laughable. It never would happen under normal circumstances. I believe she was put there because she's loyal to Trump and she's probably a decent lawyer, but she has no criminal law experience and zero experience as a prosecutor. Zero. So it's kind of shocking. I think we know why she's there. He didn't delete it. He deleted it and then he reposted it. That's what he did. I'm pretty sure that's what happened. Okay. He added her last name, Halligan, and he added some other stuff. Okay. So then he added more to it, which I'm not going to read because you guys get the general gist. So that's the evidence, Mike, that this was malicious prosecution. And I have to just say this before you answer, how they're going to argue that it's not. The media is having a meltdown over the fact that Trump has been very vocal about wanting this indictment, which he has, even if he took this whatever, without this tweet. He's been very vocal about wanting James Comey indicted. And they're horrified by this and they really think it's obvious that it was under White House pressure and maybe it was. And 100%, so were the Trump indictments. Like, I just have absolutely no tolerance for this, for this argument. Last night, they actually, to their credit, did talk about the fact that there was Biden pressure to indict Trump. But then they tried to draw a distinction that that was private behind closed doors, that he wasn't public about it, which is a distinction without any difference. That. That makes no difference legally. The president, in both cases made very clear to his doj and he wanted an indictment. That's what happened to Trump, and that appears to be what happened here. So your thoughts on that?

[Mike Davis]

I would just say that the Trump Justice Department should just go back and use the Biden Justice Department's legal arguments that Jack Smith made when Trump made these same arguments about malicious prosecution. And so that's exactly what the Biden Justice Department did. And, you know, was there a political motivation here? Probably. But you know what? I would say this to these people. You ran unprecedented republic ending lawfare against President Trump. His top aides, his allies, his supporters, parents, Christians. I'm going to use the same damn arguments that they threw at me, which was, well, a grand jury indicted here. So it's obviously legitimate because the grand jury indicted here. So, look, revenge is best served cold. I think that, I think, Rust, I think that if this is. I want these prosecutions and I'm malicious about it. So does that make it a malicious prosecution? Maybe, but I don't give a damn.

[Megyn Kelly]

I love your honesty. Let me just show, you know, one of the things. Yeah, go ahead, John.

[John Solomon]

Megan, real quickly, one of the things that will come up in the malicious prosecution arguments, the judge will inquire what the grand jury knew. And one of the ways that prosecutors sometimes insulated malicious prosecution claim is that, hey, listen, we want you to know the president's out there saying that he doesn't like James Comey. James Comey has been clear. He doesn't like the President. It's not about this. And so if they bring that before the grand jury or if the grand jury raises that question themself before they bring the bill of indictment, a lot of times a judge will looked at and said, listen, there was an informed decision by a grand jury. They kind of knew what Trump did and they were okay with it because they made it on other circumstances. So that'll be something. When this case gets into the nitty gritty that will be evaluated by the trial judge.

[Megyn Kelly]

I also think even if they don't have this prosecutor raising that with the grand jurors team, Trump's got an argument like, hello, it was everywhere. Trump again, it's not just down to this one post on True Social. Trump's been making really clear in front of cameras and elsewhere for a long time. He hates James Comey and would love to see him indicted. It was not a mystery, which I would submit to you guys is better than what Joe Biden did, which was while on camera trying to act like a good guy who would never interfere with his DOJ, but then clearly interfering with his DOJ behind the scenes. There is an April 2022 New York Times article that bust that wide open talked about how behind the scenes he was leaning on Merrick Garland. He was. It was taking so long. Keep in mind the Trump indictments did not start until 2023. This is before he'd been indicted anywhere. Saying, what's taking so long? Hurry it up. We need to see indictments. He was. He wanted him in jail. And there was a very good argument. He wanted him in jail to stop him from winning the presidency again. I mean, talk about malicious Here's a sampling of how Biden and the Democrats sounded back then. Okay. Pressuring the Department of Justice to go after Trump sat 13. The New York Times reports President Biden.

[Maureen Callahan]

Privately told his inner circle that former President Trump should be prosecuted.

[Megyn Kelly]

Garland's deliberative approach is even frustrating President Biden himself. President Biden confided to his inner circle that he believed former President Trump was a threat to democracy and should be prosecuted. I also have been somewhat frustrated at the pace that DOJ has gone. This isn't complicated. It is ridiculous how long this is taking. And I think justice delayed is justice denied.

[John Solomon]

We campaigned for four years saying we.

[Dave Aronberg]

Were going to be the party that upholds the rule of law, that's going to have an independent Justice Department.

[Mike Davis]

So far, Merrick Garland is failing the United States of America. How many crimes does somebody have to commit to get prosecuted in this country at least get investigated by the Department of Justice? The Attorney General and the Department of Justice have failed this badly.

[Megyn Kelly]

Will this new reporting Joaquin Castro nudge.

[Dave Aronberg]

Him a little bit?

[Maureen Callahan]

President Biden is right.

[Dave Aronberg]

What is Merrick Garland waiting for?

[Maureen Callahan]

This is his job, and he's not getting the urgency of the moment.

[Megyn Kelly]

There was universal pressure on Merrick Garland to go after Donald Trump. And when Alvin Bragg was the first to go and brought this ridiculous indictment against Donald Trump, which was unlike anybody any lawyer had ever seen, and they couldn't figure it out, there were lengthy segments on tv, just like we're having now, like, what does it mean? What is he doing? Only that one had about 40 legal hoops that you had to jump through in order to understand the crime, where they took misdemeanors and inflated them into felonies and they resurrected dead claims under the statute of limitations. And then we didn't understand exactly what Trump had done anyway. Like, he put in his books, payment to lawyer for a payment to his lawyer. But he was expected really to just say, in order to pay off porn star or it's a crime. Like, all of us were so confused. It was way more confusing than what we're dealing with here, which is just, okay, he lied under oath about not authorizing somebody to leak. And we just don't know what the leaks were. They were all in favor of it. They cheered him. They celebrated. Alvin Bragg. Oh, my God. Where was it? My team sent it to me. The Lawrence o' Donnell reaction, it was unbelievable. What did he call him? He was like, alvare. Oh, he talks about how the Crimson. Where is it? Where is the AM Update? Dev oh, my God. I'm falling apart out here. I have so much paper. I can't do it. Is this it? In any event, he was talking about how the Harvard Crimson was celebrating Alvin Bragg as, like, the next coming, and he really was starting to believe it. That's my point. Okay, so this is. I can't handle the absolute hypocrisy. And the defense, Lawrence o'. Donnell. Now, the phrase trumped up charges has new meaning then. When Alvin Bragg graduated from Harvard College, the Harvard Crimson ran a profile of him. The title of that profile was the Anointed One. Come on, Dave, are you going to defend that?

[Dave Aronberg]

I was in college with him. I knew him in college. Not well.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is that how you saw him? Is that how you saw him? You did you a little genuine as you walked by occasionally?

[Dave Aronberg]

No. Yeah. You know, Megan, you're clearly playing to your strength here in focusing on the Alvin Bragg New York prosecution because you should never run for office and say, I'm gonna go after that guy like Letitia James or Alvin Bragg did. I will push back, though, about Merrick Garland, who is known for his timidity more than anything on my side of the aisle, who was so scared to go after Trump that he appointed a special prosecutor so he didn't have to do it. And also who refused to prosecute Matt Gaetz when the evidence was there and the investigation was started under Bill Barr. And who prosecuted Joe Biden's son. Let's see if. If the Justice Department does that.

[Megyn Kelly]

He was dragged into that kicking and screaming. Mike Davis. I would.

[John Solomon]

I would.

[Mike Davis]

I would say this. I want to remind everyone, Joe Biden's fingerprints are on all four criminal indictments of President Trump. It was. It was Jonathan Su, Biden's deputy White House counsel, who waived Trump's claim of executive privilege on behalf of Joe Biden that led to the Jack Smith two indictments. It was Matthew Colangelo that deployed from a senior Biden Justice Department political appointment to go work with Alvin Bragg. And it was Nathan Wade, Fanny Willis's dumb, unqualified boyfriend, who built sick 16 hours of his time. $250 an hour, $4,000 for his two meetings with the Biden White House and the White House counsel before they indicted Trump down in Georgia. So before we go for.

[Megyn Kelly]

Quickly, Mike, what is likely to happen in this case?

[Mike Davis]

You never know. You have a Biden judge, you have an Eastern District of Virginia jury filled with Democrats. It's going to be a tough case.

[Megyn Kelly]

Go ahead, Dave.

[Dave Aronberg]

I think he'll be thrown out as vindictive prosecution and won't even get to a jury.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hmm. Okay. And final thoughts from you, John.

[John Solomon]

I think we're going to get some more evidence that we don't know about that's going to change this conversation.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, and by the way, I heard you say on Hannity last night you also are predicting more indictments.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, they're working on other indictments. There's over 150 subpoena requests pending at U.S. attorney's offices around the country. So there's a lot more investigation going on in this weaponization space and is visible right now.

[Megyn Kelly]

Any bets on who's next?

[John Solomon]

I would never bet on that. I thought O.J. was going to get convicted, so I've stopped betting after that.

[Megyn Kelly]

How about you, Mike? Do you have any, do you also predict more indictments are coming?

[Mike Davis]

I would, I would say down in Dave's backyard in the Southern District of Florida, look for a, look for an investigation on the entire Crossfire hurricane conspiracy going back to 2016. And it can and continues to this day.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. Because. Because there would be a better jury down there. And you can go back as far as the raid and, and before in order to get more people. And Mike Davis, any predictions on what names might possibly be under consideration?

[Mike Davis]

I would look at all of them. Obama, Biden, Hillary, Comey, Clapper, Brennan, all of them. And all the, all the prosecutions against Trump, Tish, Fannie, Bragg, Jack Smith, brat. Okay, I would.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's just make sure that all three of your zooms are working because we're going to be seeing a lot of you. Thanks, guys. Maureen Callahan is.

[Dave Aronberg]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Maureen Callahan]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Your bouquet and make someone's day.

[Maureen Callahan]

Save up to 40% off today at 1-800-flowers.com sxm. That's 1-800-flowers.

[Megyn Kelly]

Com sxm. We absolutely have to keep talking. It's more important now than ever. To cower, to hide, to go silent is not the answer. And all I can tell you is there is no fucking way I am canceling one stop on this tour. Not one stop. I'm going, I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show. We're making it safe for me. We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you. We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real. To honor him. I really now more than ever would love to see you all face to face. God, I would love to see you face to face. I need to see you face to face. I am doing this tour and I would love for you to join me. MeganKelly.com for the tickets. Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. I've been so looking forward to this. It's Friday and we're going into the weekend and we need some lighter stuff. It's been a very heavy couple of weeks of news. Uh, okay. But before. Before we go to the place I've been wanting to go, I wanna tell you about some updates on the Megyn Kelly Live tour. We've been adding some new people to our live shows that start next month. We kick it off next month. I had such a fun conversation with Charlie Sheen a couple of weeks ago. Now we're gonna get to do it in person. He's gonna be joining me in Bakersfield, California on November 20th. Very excited about that. We've also added a new guest to Sugar Land, Texas, just outside of Houston. Our first stop on the tour on October 23rd. That's Jesse Kelly. He's gonna be there along with Donald Trump Jr. We love Jesse. He tells it like it is. We announced the other day that Erica Kirk will be joining us in Glendale, Arizona. All these tickets are available for [e-mail] go there now to buy tickets to all 10 stops. And if you wanna do the VIP meet and greet with me and the guests of the night. And there's a special little box you can check. So check it out. And now someone else who's coming on the tour, Maureen Callahan. She's host of the Nerve with Maureen Callahan. You can find it on YouTube. The Nerve show on all podcast platforms. Go to thenerveshow.com to subscribe. Great to have you, my friend.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's great to be back with you, Megan.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God. You look amazing. The show's doing amazing.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, we're having so much fun.

[Megyn Kelly]

I know. I can, too. And I have fun listening to it. And I love doing you on Fridays because it gives me, like, I'll go back and listen to this interview in my downtime. So now I have, like, lots of you to listen to. It's awesome.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, there's never enough of you, so I'm very, very happy to see you and see you looking so happy.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you. And let me tell you, so many people knew you were coming because they gave us manna from heaven in these, like, subjects that we're going to go over.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's an embarrassment of riches. It's like, it's great because, like, the Nerve has been down this week. We've been off, so. But, like, now I really get to get my aggression out. You know, it's been building up, so. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, that's a perfect place to kick it off is Kamala Harris. Although we were saying before we got started, I think we're too hard on her. She's the gift that keeps on giving. Like, it's almost like she cares about us, the way she keeps offering these little ditties, these.

[Maureen Callahan]

This. It's. It's impeccable timing. It's much needed comic relief. She doesn't know it's comic relief, which kind of makes it even funnier, I think.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. I guess it's less benevolent than I'm giving her credit for, but here she is. I don't really know who this was. My team says it's Scott Evans and a YouTube show that she sat down with. She's promoting her book, which I understand you're reading.

[Maureen Callahan]

I just started. It's fourth grade reading level, yet very, very rough going.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh my gosh. Are you having trouble sleeping or something? Why would you be reading the Kamala Harris book?

[Maureen Callahan]

It's a rubbernecking thing. I don't rubberneck on the road, but I will culturally rubberneck.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I'm really interested. Like the beginning of the book is getting the call. And it's the fake version of the call. It's not the. Like I started scrambling and whipping people up to my side so I could avoid a primary because there's no other way I'm getting this thing. Oh, Joe's dropping out. No idea.

[Megyn Kelly]

That was gonna, you know, the shock.

[Maureen Callahan]

We're just making pancakes, you know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. Like I do.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. I have to tell you, in the. When you open the book, the inside art is this very not at all staged photo of Kamala. It's like a recreation, I believe, of her that morning in the call. Cause she describes herself wearing like her Howard University sweatshirt and just hanging out. And she's like this at a. You know, and it's like my. So raw. Yeah, exactly. So it sets the tone nicely that you're not at all getting artifice in this book.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, no, it's all raw. Well, so she sits down with this guy and she recalls the fondness of her rallies where everyone loved her. You can see she's actually missing it when people paid attention to her and she felt relevant for once. And just classic Kamala. Here, take a listen. SOT 25.

[Maureen Callahan]

Somebody would want me to take a picture to hug their child.

[Megyn Kelly]

Uh huh.

[Maureen Callahan]

And someone in the back would hand that baby over through the crowd. Up to you people who would share the. But pass the baby.

[Megyn Kelly]

See?

[Maureen Callahan]

And then pass the baby back. Pass the baby back. And I. I don't know, there was something about that. When it would happen. I mean, I could get pretty emotional about it right now. But. But. But, you know, I believe that we should always feel that, you know, the. The children of the community are the children of the community.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Yeah. All of us. That. Our next leaders, our next thinkers, our next church. Sure. They are.

[Maureen Callahan]

Participate in caring about that child and in caring for that child. Yeah. And there was just something about that and seeing the baby travel from the parent. Yes. And the parent trusted the stranger that was next to them who trusted the next person, and all of them as though it was their own child.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

There was something so magical in many ways about that and about affirming, about. You can create an environment where people feel safe and feel a sense of communal responsibility and community. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

She says nothing. Communal responsibility and community. And the baby, Maureen, the baby. And how about. That guy deserves an Oscar?

[Maureen Callahan]

I recognize that guy. He was an offender. He seems nice enough, but he is an Access Hollywood host.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, oh, okay.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay. So we're infotainment. We're not.

[Megyn Kelly]

That makes sense. Yeah. Cause he was giving it to her, like. Yeah. This is so interesting.

[Maureen Callahan]

Babies come. So I'm picturing we're at Bagram Air Force Base. We're withdrawing from Afghanistan, and, you know, those desperate Afghans were like, the babies over the barbed wire. That's what she's evoking to me. We're bringing a baby. We're passing a baby through a crowd of strangers, and it's gonna wind up somehow in Kamala's safe hands. Oh, my God. Is America the baby?

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know.

[Maureen Callahan]

Is that the metaphor?

[Megyn Kelly]

But honestly, what idiot would hand their infant child through a crowd of people in the hopes that Kamala Harris would then touch it or bless it or kiss it? That is absolutely foolish and stupid.

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't even know if I believe it.

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know if I believe this exactly. I had the same question. This might be a Kamala invention. And I love how she's, like, touting it. Just feels safe and looked after. Meanwhile, she's married to a guy who has a serious allegation that he abuses women. So I'm like, maybe she is seeking some sort of safety or someplace she can go and really feel protected. I really just thought, look, you know what? You married, Right. He denies it, but I totally believe the. The allegation. And I've spoken with the accuser. Okay, so that's Kamala. She's doing her thing now elsewhere on the. On her book tour. She was in New York City, and she was trying to tell everybody how great she is, and she got interrupted by Gaza Hecklers, you know, the Hamas nicks are out there. And here's how that went. Sock 26.

[Maureen Callahan]

Hey, guys, listen, listen, listen, please, please. I actually also write about this, okay?

[Megyn Kelly]

Which is about.

[Maureen Callahan]

What I know about how and why you are saying what you are saying now and how I felt about it. You're not letting me talk. You know what?

[Megyn Kelly]

I respect your righteous speech.

[Maureen Callahan]

Let's bring the temperature down. Let's bring the temperature down. Unlike the current president of the United.

[Megyn Kelly]

States.

[Maureen Callahan]

What'S happening right now in Gaza, what is happening to the Palestinian people is outrageous, and it breaks my heart. I get it.

[Megyn Kelly]

I love that she tried to hawk her book to the Hamasniks.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right. As I wrote about in my book.

[Megyn Kelly]

I got a chapter for you guys. Hey, right in the middle there.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's in there, by the way. You know, when I went to look at the latest on this on Kamala being interrupted by pro Palestinian activists, everything that came up was from the election. What do you mean? In my Google search, like, I wasn't getting anything current. Like, on her book tour, I think I saw one article that was like she was speaking in Times Square. Oh, no, it was the cut. It was about the other balulus at the cut who believe that she won.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, the balulus.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. But no, you're not seeing any of this. That, like she's getting any sort of pushback on her tour from the far left.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. I'm not surprised. I guess the media still wants to run cover for her. Although if she actually does declare and put herself in a primary race, that will stop real quick.

[Maureen Callahan]

Please, please, please.

[Megyn Kelly]

I know. So you mention the belulus, there is a group of people. I didn't know this, Maureen, until my producers brought this to us, that believes Kamala Harris won the election. And, you know, as much as the left criticized Trump and you know, his core faithful for saying he won 2020, they're out there saying, I'm quoting here, she's the president. She won. They believe that Elon Musk's Internet provider, Starlink, manipulated votes. How could it not have been voter fraud? One asked. And they call themselves the Belulu crowd. Why? Again, it's a riff on Delulu.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like delusion.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like you're delusional. And they lean into that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So weirdly, I haven't heard this reported anywhere other than the cut. What do you make of this? Is this just an extension of the leftist refusal to believe anything positive about Donald Trump?

[Maureen Callahan]

It's so strange to me. It does. It does feel like a mirror image of Those who sort of refuse to believe that Trump lost in 16. So it doesn't feel.

[Megyn Kelly]

20.

[Maureen Callahan]

Sorry. 20. So that doesn't feel so strange to me. But what does feel strange is the cohort that were profiled on the cut were, like, leaning into all of it. They were basically like, yeah, we're the semi alcoholic wine mom. Like, where's the chardonnay bar at this joint where we're waiting to hear Kamala speak? And they pay for, like an hour of getting a bunch of word salad. I mean, I. I know we're gonna.

[Megyn Kelly]

They're like roadies.

[Maureen Callahan]

They are. They're like groupies. They're groupies. They're groupies for what?

[Megyn Kelly]

Right?

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

They love salad. Not clear. But can you be semi alcoholic? That's another question I have based on your comment. I know we'll have to find out. Now, before we leave presidential politics, President Trump is doing a lot to the White House. Put up the flags. He's doing a ballroom. He changed the Rose Garden so that he had, like, a place to actually sit and meet with people. And he also has rearranged the presidential portraits, which he was showing off the other day. And here's some video. They're all lined up one after the other. You can see them all. There's Nixon. Oh, there's Clinton. Yep. There's George W. Bush. There's Obama. There's Trump. And there's the auto pen.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's hilarious.

[Megyn Kelly]

And then there's Trump again.

[Maureen Callahan]

That is one of the funniest things I've seen. Can you believe, in a long time.

[Megyn Kelly]

He took away Biden's picture and he put up the Oscar?

[Maureen Callahan]

I love that. I love it. And again, it just goes to all of this rewriting of history that Kamala's doing right now on tour. Good luck with that. You know, But I. It's.

[Megyn Kelly]

I love his sense of humor. We're gonna really miss it when he's gone.

[Maureen Callahan]

We are. I mean, that feels almost like. I don't know if you grew up as I did, reading Mad magazine.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

But that feels like a very Mad Magazine adjacent thing to do.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, people, he's underestimated for his sense of humor and his. His willingness and desire to make us laugh, which he does so well. I think it's a totally fair thing to do. His predecessor tried to put him in jail for the rest of his life. So it's on. It's fine. He doesn't wanna walk by Joe Biden's picture every day. Who could blame him President Obama. He has some thoughts and they're not necessarily about presidential politics, though he does continue to weigh in on how terrible Trump is on everything he tries to bomb in, like the voice of God. Like, like I will be the final arbiter of whether Jimmy Kimmel should be canceled. I will be the final arbiter of the James Comey like everything. Like, he doesn't realize that he's totally lost relevance. We don't care. We do not care. As my lady says in the We Do Not Care club, that's how we feel about Barack Obama now. But I did care about this. Oh, we do. Oh, let's watch it. We've cut a side of my lady.

[Maureen Callahan]

Welcome to all new and existing members of the We Do Not Care club. I started this club for all women in perimenopause, menopause and post menopause. We are putting the world on notice that we simply just do not care much anymore. Let's go ahead and get started with today's announcements. We do not care if you come over to our house and there's a pile of laundry on the couch. Just move it out the way and sit down or fold it. We do not care if our hair is thinning on our head and thickening on our chin. We do not care that we bought the sharing size bag of M M's and then proceeded to eat the entire bag ourselves. Sharing is overrated. We do not care that we strip the beds this morning to wash the sheets. It's bedtime. We're tired. Find a sleeping bag. We do not care if something is not dishwasher safe. It is now.

[Megyn Kelly]

I love her. Love her so much. Her name is Melanie Sanders. Melanie without the e at the end. And she's at just beingmelanie on Instagram. I live for this woman.

[Maureen Callahan]

I tell me why.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just because I love her. Like her affect for the listening audience. She's got the highlighter stuck into like a headband of sorts. She's always got one of those airplane pillows that you buy at the airport so you can sleep better around the back of her neck. She's like, she takes off her. Like her notebook is always a mess and she's just like crinkling it with a highlighter pen in her. The cap in her mouth crossing out what she's done in her agenda. She treats it like a real board meeting, but she's saying the funniest stuff. And while I will confess that I do care, even though I am now heading for mid-50s, I care. I Haven't actually lost all ability to care about these things. I just love some of them. They really hit home. Like the M M's thing. Yes. I've been there. Not too long ago, I was at the airport, and I desperately wanted a bag of Cheetos. They only had the oversized kind, you know, that's clearly to share with, like, a family. And I ate the entire thing.

[Maureen Callahan]

I love this.

[Megyn Kelly]

It wasn't Maha. It wasn't good for me.

[Maureen Callahan]

I love it.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was so delicious. So, like, I can totally relate to some of her moments. And I just love her.

[Maureen Callahan]

I love that, you know, I love that she's also. If you watch it, the thing that struck me is she's got the two. She's got one pair of glasses on, and then her readers or whatever, her real ones are above it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's like she doesn't have the energy to, like, just swap one out for the other. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

We do not care. So that is generally what I have to say to Barack Obama. We do not care. But I did care about this little ditty here, Maureen, where he decided to give us a little insight into his relationship with Michelle. Here it is. Sat 29.

[John Solomon]

Since I left office.

[Mike Davis]

I have spent over 8 years now trying to dig myself out of a hole with Michelle. And that's been challenging, but I feel.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like I'm making progress.

[Mike Davis]

I'm almost. I'm almost breaking even at the moment.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God. It's. It's perfect.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's the. He's telling the truth.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. It's the other side of the first side we always cover, which is her and how miserable she is.

[Maureen Callahan]

I, I again, like, I know we've talked about this at length, and it feels like a real puzzle for the ages, but why is he still whipping himself? Like, why is he still wearing the hair shirt? Why is he still suffering?

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know. I don't know. The hair shirt. I don't know. Like, it's time. They can easily say it didn't work out. We're gonna part ways, and he's gonna go with Jennifer Aniston or whomever.

[Maureen Callahan]

Whomever, Reggie love. Whomever.

[Megyn Kelly]

No judgment.

[Maureen Callahan]

Live your life. But no, it's so strange. And then seeing the photos of them, you know, they're in this very consequential time in American history. They've decided, what better time as what they perceive themselves to be as leaders of the Democratic Party, to go yachting with Steven Spielberg. And she alights first wearing. If we could just talk fashion for a moment. I don't understand what this woman is doing. She's wearing denim on denim on denim. Looks like a denim scarf wrapped around the hair. And she just looks. But she arrived, like, five hours before Barack arrived on the yacht.

[Megyn Kelly]

What?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. They didn't even arrive together.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's not a thing. Nobody wants to do that. You always want to go on with your partner.

[Maureen Callahan]

But that. But she does. But they don't. She doesn't. She. And. And Barack brought his laptop, and there are photos of him on Spielberg's yacht, like, having a fine time with his laptop, you know, alone at a table.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's probably how he's happiest. I would bet he is, to be honest.

[Maureen Callahan]

I would bet he is.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's actually, I feel kind of sorry for him, you know, because all she does is rip on him. And it's to the point where, you know, it's like, if this had been a passing comment by her or by him once or twice, we shouldn't make anything out of it. But it's all she says about her marriage. The passing comment by Michelle will be the occasional need to try to rehabilitate things where she comes out like, I love my man, and we've worked things out, and now things are good. Well, she's never says that that much. Positive. But she'll throw out, like, one compliment in the midst of 30 disses. And what does he say as soon as he gets in front of it? Like, he can't even look up. He's, like, looking down. Like, I'm just starting to make some headway and getting out of the enormous hole that I'm in with Michelle.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, Bill Clinton did a lot worse to his wife on the world stage, and he doesn't talk like that.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's true.

[Maureen Callahan]

He seems like he's a happy guy.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I don't. I think that comes from women other than Hillary.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, of course. But what I'm saying, he's not like he's. He hasn't spent his life. Even when he got caught, really, it was sort of like he did the sort of things that you do, but you could tell he was just like, I'm getting away with it. Yeah, totally. Whatever.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, Now, I don't know whether this person ever cheated. I think he had a reputation for being a loving husband and family man. And that's Robert Redford. Was he. Was he a cheater? A little bit. Okay, a little bit. Never mind. They all are. Well, in any event, I was a big fan of Robert Redford's And I know you were, too. And the news has been so busy, I haven't even gotten a chance to acknowledge that he died. I can't believe he died, but he died. 89.

[Maureen Callahan]

89.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, that's a nice, long life, especially for someone who's, like, living as big and as boldly as he was all over the world. And jet setting, which can wear you out. Here he is wearing or holding his Oscar in that earlier picture at a younger time. And, you know, for. For virtually every American woman of a certain age. If you didn't love Robert Redford before this movie, you did after you saw the Way We Were. Here's a scene with Barbra Streisand. Stop. 55.

[Maureen Callahan]

You never give up, do you?

[Megyn Kelly]

Only when I'm absolutely forced to. But I'm a very good loser.

[John Solomon]

Better than I am.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I've had more practice. Your girl is lovely, Hubble. Why don't you bring her for a.

[Maureen Callahan]

Drink when you come?

[Megyn Kelly]

I can't come. I can't.

[Maureen Callahan]

I know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

Totally. I just love that movie.

[Megyn Kelly]

Took me there.

[Maureen Callahan]

I love that movie so much. I love how you just sort of. It's like they don't make those movies anymore, those 70s movies where you just sort of sink into it and you luxuriate with these characters.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

You really get to know them. And what I love about that movie is that, you know, famously, Redford knew that Streisand really fell for him while they were filming, and he was very kind about it, but he also used it to help both of their performances. And she really shone in that movie because of that.

[Megyn Kelly]

She did.

[Maureen Callahan]

She really did. And what I also love about that movie is she, you know, from the beginning. It's never going to work. You know, from the beginning. And you can sense, as the movie progresses, her increasing desperation and anger about it, but her attempts to maintain her dignity throughout the whole thing, it's just. I just love that movie so much.

[Megyn Kelly]

The whole premise of it is an interesting one, too, because first of all, he's devastatingly handsome. I mean, all American man with the chiseled chin and the tanned skin and the blonde haircut, just right. Thick hair with the. The. The trench coat up. You know, just. I mean, right on brand. And he's also a rich WASP in this film. You know, they meet at. I can't remember if it's Harvard, but some elite Ivy League institution. And she's the more loud Jewish American woman. Like, she's a communist when they first meet.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And she's Got her megaphone and she's trying to rally people to the Communist Party and to become Marxists. And he's kind of laughing at her, but in a nice way.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

But they're from totally different worlds. Totally different worlds. And you can, you can buy it because WASPy, really rich trustafarians tend to be more buttoned up and less, you know, showy. And women, it could be Jewish, it could be Italian, you know, tend to be bigger personalities and warm. And you can sense why these two personalities would be like a magnet toward one another. And the whole movie does such a good job of building this, the tension between them, both sexual and personality. You know, like you said, it's, it was not meant to be, you know, but they so want to feel the way they feel when the, when they're with this person most of the time.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

That they keep going back for more even though the other 35% of the time is really a deal breaker.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Yes. And it's, it's so true. It's, it's fire and ice and they were both attracted to. But I always felt with the Redford character, he. And I haven't seen this movie in a while and I'm doing a little retrospective, you know. Yeah. And so it's on my list along with, as I told a friend, like, my shame watch, which I never saw, was Legal Eagles.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

But I'm putting that on my list.

[Megyn Kelly]

Deborah Winger.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And Donald Hannah came back to me.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. But he, at least one point in the movie he says something to her like, you will not let yourself be happy. Like, you hide behind all of these causes and this agitation politically as a way to keep yourself from just being happy. And it's so. It really like he hit her ID and she hit his ID of like, searching for something more meaningful in his life than just his own beauty and wealth.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's right. I tell you, like, not to be over the top, but I just gonna say one nice thing about Doug. Doug is a little WASPy. I mean, he is white, Anglo section Protestant, he's Presbyterian. He doesn't come from a very rich family, but he does come from a nice family in the main line of Philadelphia. And I love the fact that he's mine. I love that we're married and I have him and he has me. And sometimes I'll have a nightmare that I lose him, you know, that something happens where like we, our family, like, gets. Just gets torn apart. And those are my worst nightmares, Maureen, because I almost picture that scene where it's like, I'm looking across at this man who I love so much, and I feel so lucky to be with. And, like, something makes it so that we can't be together. And I'm, like, so thankful that God, you know, thank God nothing like that has happened. But it's a pleasure. It's like a gift to love somebody like that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And in her case, it's so sad that they. They can't be together. But in my case, we can.

[Maureen Callahan]

In your case, you can. But that's. And that's the other thing about this movie that I think. You know, I was watching Three Days rewatching Three Days of the Condor the other night, which, if you have not seen Do Yourself the Favor.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, oh, my God, Faye Dunaway. Stunning.

[Maureen Callahan]

Stunning. Like, height. Both of them at the height of their powers. And what was the thing where did I lose my train of thought?

[Megyn Kelly]

It was about that I can't be with him.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. But they don't end movies like that anymore. They don't end movies where the couple doesn't wind up together or where, like, the hero of the film has an uncertain ending and you, like, everything's not wrapped up with a bow. And I so appreciate those endings because they get to exactly what you're talking about. Like, no matter how perfect anyone's life may look like from the outside, on the inside, we're all consumed with anxieties and fears that are existential.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. That can come haunt you in your sleep.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly.

[Megyn Kelly]

I also loved Up Close and Personal with Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Maureen Callahan]

I saw it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Worth your time.

[Maureen Callahan]

I was resistant to it because it was written by Joan Didion and John Gregory.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I can see why then. But I really enjoyed it. I mean, I was not in news when I saw it. I think I was. Yeah, it was. It was in the 90s. But I enjoyed this, the segment, and I think it was loosely based on the Jessica Savage story.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. That's. I think that was also my resistance because Jessica Savage was so dark.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

So. And I want.

[Megyn Kelly]

Interesting.

[Maureen Callahan]

I want to go full dark. Like, I want to see her snorting cocaine five minutes before air. You know, like, that's what I want. And they really sort of sanitized it, you know, so. But I'll watch it. I will watch that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, they don't give her the same ending as Jessica Savage. Spoiler alert. But, you know, Jessica Savage is the reason I am in News Stop. Yes. So the audience may not even be familiar with her, the younger folks in particular, but she came up in the, in the age of like Connie Chung, Barbara Walters, when there really weren't many women in news at all. And she was stunningly beautiful. We'll drop in some pictures of her for the YouTube audience at this point and. But she had a great voice, she had a great presence. She, she projected tough, like beautiful, but tough. And she decided she wanted to be in news at a time when you just couldn't get in news as a woman. It was very, very, very hard. But just through sheer tenacity, grit and ambition, she did it and she got hired at NBC where she then became a star. And speaking of like the trench coat with the collar up on the outside of the, like those gray Pentagon walls, that was her. And she became a star. But she was tortured. She was a tortured personality and she had an eating disorder and she was full of anxiety at NBC and she had to be totally perfect. And she actually did a great job of being perfect for a long time. And then drugs started to take over her life and she infamously had an on air meltdown while delivering the news into camera on NBC where she became thick tongued and started slurring. And it was shocking. I mean, it would be truly like if in the dawn of Peter Jennings, you know, reporting age, he started to go thick tongued and started slurring a kunga or you know, like, you're like, is he having a stroke?

[Maureen Callahan]

Right?

[Megyn Kelly]

And you could tell she wasn't having a stroke. It seemed like she was, you know, drug addled and she was. Good evening. President Reagan has canceled his planned visit to the Philippines. The White House blamed the press of congressional business, but did not deny fear for the President's safety. The Supreme Court today left intact rulings of constitutional right to own a handgun.

[Maureen Callahan]

And now this.

[Megyn Kelly]

And then her ending was just so dark, you know, I mean it's, it's a matter of historical fact, so I'm not really spoiling anything. But she, she dies in this like, trench in New Hope, Pennsylvania on a rainy night. And I've seen exactly where she died, where she was like backing out of this restaurant and I don't even know why. There was this huge trench there, but it's almost like a little creek. And she couldn't see and she, I think she went over a fence that had been there and she backed in and she was with her dog Chewy, who she loved, and the car flipped. So they were stuck in the muddy, watery ravine. So she had, forgive me, it was going dark now, but she had such a terrible death. And such an interesting but tortured life. And I know that part wasn't so inspirational, the drugs and the anxiety and the ending, but the fact that she pulled herself up out of nothing with no connections and made it in a business, you know, at a time when it was much tougher than when I wanted to get in.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Was my inspo. I saw the Jessica Savage story on Lifetime TV when I was an unhappy lawyer. I had made a resume tape. That's all I had. But no connections and no will to call anybody because I was afraid of rejection. And that day I was like, fuck it. I'm gonna start calling cold calling news directors.

[Maureen Callahan]

This is incredible.

[Megyn Kelly]

Isn't that criticizing?

[Maureen Callahan]

If you do, like, a second memoir, you gotta put this in. I find this fascinating too, because I find Jessica Savage just as compelling as much for the dark stuff, if not more, because we don't see this anymore.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Maureen Callahan]

And one of the shows I've been talking a lot about on the nerve that I have fallen in love with is the Newsreader, which is an.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, yeah, it's on my list because of you.

[Maureen Callahan]

You gotta watch it.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's foreign.

[Maureen Callahan]

Would love it. It's Australian, and it's set in the 80s in a newsroom in Australia. And the female anchor is played by this incredible actress named Anna Torv, who is related to the Murdochs. She is a cousin of Lachlan and James, et cetera. And she is very much in the Jessica Savage mold. On air, Perfect. Off air, she struggles with what seems like bipolar disorder. She has eating issues, all of it, but it makes her such. I think that's why people kind of really were drawn to Jessica Savage. They sensed there was something deeper underneath there, you know, and to see a woman like that and all of that complexity, you know, making her way through sheer dint of talent and grit, again, something we don't really see that now we see like the Nepo babies, you know?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes, exactly. Right. Yes. Well, one final word on Robert Redford. I will say something about him. He wrote me a personal handwritten note. Now, obviously, he was a Democrat, because it came after that debate with Trump. Of course, he. When the left loved me for that, you know, two minutes. But I'm not gonna lie. A no from Robert Redford is a no from Robert Redford. I was thrilled.

[Maureen Callahan]

Can you share what he said?

[Megyn Kelly]

He basically said he was proud of me and he thought I was a great journalist. Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And he didn't mention your looks?

[Megyn Kelly]

No. God, no. No, he didn't.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's. That. That. That Was. That's what they used to call in the late 90s, early aughts, a neg.

[Megyn Kelly]

What's that?

[Maureen Callahan]

Ever heard of that?

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I. I had to have a guy describe this to me as well, after a weird incident at a bar with a guy who was, like, sort of weird, and he was like, you just got negged. I said, what is negged? He said, that's when a guy will nearly insult you or not mention the obvious as to why he's even talking to you. It's sort of a way that, like, a guy who's trying to punch up a little bit will try to bring you down so they can, like, engage.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

And there was a whole book written by a charlatan who went by the name mystery and wound up on the New York Times. So sell our list. Anyway, I think Redford was negging you a little bit.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I took it for what it was worth. I was thrilled just to get a name. Robert Redford.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, even a neg is a. Is a throw.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, it means, like, he. He. He wasn't going to mention the obvious thing, you know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

That you were obviously beautiful, and that was part of why he was writing to you. You know, crush, maybe.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was a. It was like, I got a lot of admiration from Democrats for that moment. Meanwhile, I was like, let's see if you like me if I ever get to host a Dem debate. You know, like, this is. I wasn't trying to take down Trump. I was mean to all of them. And I would be even meaner probably if I had a bunch of Dems, but they don't have the stones to sit with me. Then Robert Redford came on my NBC show. No, we have videotape of it. I don't think we have a sop, but we have a videotape of when he was there. Yeah. Yeah, okay. He's walking out with Jane Fonda. So it made it very complicated for me. And look, there I am sitting with Robert Redford, and I've got to tell you a crazy story. So do you remember how I asked Jane Fonda about her plastic surgery and it made headlines all around the world?

[Maureen Callahan]

I do.

[Megyn Kelly]

People said, you're so insensitive. Meanwhile, she had talked about it in every other interview. Why can everybody else ask about it but I can't ask about it? But whatever the reason I did that, the reason I went there is because Robert Redfer's publicist was in the audience, like, in the front row, and hers wasn't. And she came to me right before I asked that question. Whatever break was there, I can't remember if it was at the top of the segment or in between two segments. But she came to me and she was like, please don't let her talk about the sex scenes. She's making him totally uncomfortable. She, Jane Fonda is making bomb. Yeah, totally uncomfortable. She's obsessed with the sex scenes. He's not into her that way. She keeps wanting to talk about them and he hates it. So she, like, I was trying to do him a solid by going to a place I thought Jane Fonda also was very willing to talk about. And to protect Robert Redford from having to listen to that shit about their sex scenes, which he was uncomfortable with. And no good deed goes unpunished.

[Maureen Callahan]

Maureen, Robert, poor Robert redford at like 70, 75, he still can't get off his cross. Like every co star is like, I just want to ask you, man.

[Megyn Kelly]

Exactly right. Well, we will miss him, but what a legacy. What a life he led. All right, we got to take a quick break. Maureen's going to be here for plenty more. Don't go away. When you are buried in credit card and loan debt, it's human nature to put it off and say, I'm going to deal with that later. I want to touch that right now. If that's you. Here's something you need to know. Done With Debt discovered a little known strategy that works in your favor to dramatically reduce or even erase your debt altogether. They can aggressively engage everyone you owe money to in September and here's why. They know which lenders and credit card companies are doing year end accounting and need to cut deals. They even know which ones have year end audits and need to get your debt off of their books. So consider getting started with Done With Debt right now, this fall. Done With Debt accomplishes this without bankruptcy or new loans. In fact, most clients end up with more money in their pocket the first month. Get started now while you still have time. Go to donewithdebt.com and speak with one of their specialists for free. Visit donewithdebt.com donewithdebt.com welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. Here with me today, Maureen Callahan, host of the Nerve on the MK Media Podcast Network. Go to thenerveshow.com, subscribe on all podcast platforms and on YouTube. Get in on all the fun. Maureen is back on Tuesday as the show keeps growing. It's a hit by any measure. And if you want to see yours truly and Maureen together on tour go to Megan Kelly.com and get your tickets now. You won't be sorry you did. So now, speaking of my time on the Today show. Yeah. Our favorite person, Hoda Kapi, who really just wanted to see spend time with her daughters. That's why she had to leave her post at the Today show. She's all about being a mom and doing what matters is back out with yet another product that she's hawking. This time it's some book which sounds like it's full of complete inanity. What's going on?

[Maureen Callahan]

I just like to say I normally try to patronize my local bookstores because I believe in that. And I was at a local bookstore yesterday and I was like, I cannot buy this book and approach any register.

[Megyn Kelly]

You could read the Kamala book and you can't buy the Hoda book. That's.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm buying it, but I'm buying it on Amazon prime under a pseudonym. You know what I'm saying? Like, I won't. But yes, I'm reading all of this stuff that's so I just read the extract in People.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, God.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes, yes. It sounds ridiculous. I have it here somewhere. Let's say you keep going.

[Maureen Callahan]

So we are revisiting for the 8 millionth time. There are a lot of parallels with Kamala. We're telling the same story over and over and over.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm back in her dressing room at the Today show while she's breaking the news. And it's amazing to have her version of events where like her co star on the fourth hour, Jenna Bush Hager is quote unquote devastated that she's leaving. It's not like an all about Eve thing here where we're like, oh, my God, finally the mantle is mine. Let's get real. That's what's going on. It's my show now, bitch. Finally. You're leaving.

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Maureen Callahan]

Jenna's devastated. She's going, no, no, no.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. Hilarious. Wa. Found it. This is what they say. Okay. The book, it's called Jump and Find Joy. Book highlights via Amazon. In her quest to better understand change, what and how to work with, not against it, Hoda relies on her reporting instincts to investigate how change works. Who in all caps, is approaching it with grace and what she can apply to her own life and share with others about how change works. So you're going to get the wisdom of change experts. Who's an expert on change?

[Maureen Callahan]

A change expert. A change expert. It's a new lane of self help.

[Megyn Kelly]

Insights from the latest work on resilience and deeply personal stories from celebrities and generally inspirational people in our own communities. And then the headline is it will shed new light on the moment. She realized her engagement to Joel Shiffman was over in 2022, she went to the Hoffman Institute and realized she was totally ready to dump him. Even though they have two daughters together, very young ones.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, they were never married.

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I always found that weird. Like you're adopting with somebody you're not married to. What are you doing to these kids? What are you doing to these kids?

[Megyn Kelly]

When you're Hoda Copy, they'll give you the kids.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. You're purchasing them, which is my opinion. But she, she gave this. So. Okay, she's gonna shed new light. Anytime someone's like, I'm shedding new light, they're lying. They're not shedding anything. She used a bunch of word salad to say, well, the reason we broke up was like, I don't know. I realized at some point this wasn't going to be the thing that was going to manifest for either one of us. It's like, I think I said, I emailed a friend of mine, I was like, what does this mean? My friend emailed back like lengthy, a lengthy explanation. She's saying that, she's saying that. I said, I think she's saying she caught him messing around. Oh, that's it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, that's it. Wait, I gotta look back at these quotes that are in here. She said, she said because she went to this thing called the Hoffman Institute where people go to like work on their issues and she felt like everything had shifted after she attended a one week retreat there, explaining that she had an epiphany during the retreat and began to feel like she was a total phony on her relationship. Our us felt different. She also called the decision to split from Joel one of the best 10 second decisions of her life. I think sometimes, you know, that a relationship is good, but it's not deepening. We will co parent in a beautiful way. Okay, I'm sorry, but like their kids are young. It's two daughters, one's eight, one six. Like maybe decide that before you decide to adopt the two children. Like she just kind of threw away the relationship. It seems to me, rather cavalierly after an epiphany at the Hoffman Institute that things were not deepening. I mean, listen, I have a divorce on my record, but my first husband and I got divorced. We did not have kids. I think when you have kids, a 6 and 8 year old maybe ideally in a perfect World, it would take time for you to end the relationship again. They weren't married without. For something more than. It's not deepening.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, I mean, listen, I'll say. As a product of a difficult home, I do wish my parents had, like, made good on their multiple threats to divorce. But, you know, which is it? She either had to go to the Hoffman Institute to do deep work for a week, or she had a 10 second epiphany.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, it's perfect that she was at the Hoffman Institute because we talked about this many times, how the people who are constantly focused on this bullshit are the least happy people.

[Maureen Callahan]

You're. You say this all the time. And it's like every time you say, it's like it's another epiphany. It's like. Yeah, it's like if you're perseverating on. First of all, if you're. If you're. If your world is that myopic, that it's about you, you, you, you, you. You are a bore. You are a limited, non intellectual, non interesting person. You're a bore.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

And this is why she's telling the same story over and over. Now we're revisiting departing the Today show. Could you imagine, Megan, if you were still like. Like, I'm talking about departing the Today show for the millionth time.

[Megyn Kelly]

Honestly, this week I brought it up, the blackface thing, because of Jimmy Kimmel and like, how he did it all these times. He never got canceled and he never cried any tears for me or stuck up for me. But I hate going back to that because it's like by this point, it's such a beaten horse. It's like, oh, my God. I. Trust me, I know. I. And others are like, move on. But she. Yeah, she loves to go back. And she did go back. She sat with Savannah and we have a little. We have a little clip of her sitting with Savannah Guthrie talking about her book.

[Maureen Callahan]

Hello.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hello.

[Maureen Callahan]

How are you?

[Megyn Kelly]

This is so exciting.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm so happy to see you.

[Megyn Kelly]

We miss you so much.

[Maureen Callahan]

I like holding your hands.

[Megyn Kelly]

I know, I know. Is this awkward for everyone else?

[Maureen Callahan]

Whenever Haylee says something, she goes, hayley is awesome.

[Megyn Kelly]

Pow, pow, pow.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I was like. As I was in the kitchen, I was like, mom's a CEO. Pow, pow, powder. Oh, my God. She's a CEO. Like, you could just call yourself a CEO.

[Megyn Kelly]

Founder.

[Maureen Callahan]

You could say a female founder. A female flounder. I love. Like, she's been gone for a minute. I could. I can only imagine what, like, the actual People who are still on the Today show, like, see, when they see, like, Hoda's on the roster, it's like she's back again. And I knew it was grim this week because she also, I. She did not co host the fourth hour of Today with Jenna.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, no.

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't even know if we got a guest segment at best, you know, so it's like we're sliding further and further down that pole.

[Megyn Kelly]

They're probably like, we already promoted your stupid app like, twice, and now you're back for a book. Like, are you sure you wanted to give up this job?

[Maureen Callahan]

Are you sure she. She got like a month long departure? Like, I punish myself because I want to know what's getting pumped into the veins of this country.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, it's barely been like half a year. I think she left eight months ago.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, give people time to miss you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

But, like, now we found joy, which again, tell me how, like, give me one concrete thing that you're selling this book.

[Megyn Kelly]

We found joy, but really we are talking to experts in change. That's what you're gonna find in this book. You know, this. That for me was such a. Like a trigger, but not actually to the many, many times I sat at the show, like the set of the Today show and just. I had nothing. Like, in the face of that false enthusiasm, I got nothing. It's so hard to, like, react appropriately to that. You know, you're like, yay. What would I have done? Across from pow, pow, pow.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, give me your best poker face. What would you have done?

[Megyn Kelly]

We gotta play it again. We have to see that again. Can we play that re wrack that?

[Maureen Callahan]

Hello.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hello.

[Maureen Callahan]

Hodes, you.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is so exciting. I'm so happy to see you. We miss you so much. I like holding your hands. I like sitting next to you. I know. Is this awkward for everyone else?

[Maureen Callahan]

Whenever Hailey says something, she goes, hayley is awesome.

[Megyn Kelly]

Pow, pow, pow.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I was like, I was always in the kitchen. I was like, mom's a CEO.

[Megyn Kelly]

Pow, pow, pow. They're both doing it.

[Maureen Callahan]

She joined it with her friendship bracelets. She's still wearing the friendship bracelets. I'm gonna. So we. We sent an interloper, we sent a gorilla into Hoda's launch event in Connecticut. In Connecticut the other night, Jenna got conscripted into doing this, like, after work, 7pm book event at a church. And I said, you gotta go in wearing the basic pitch uniform and you gotta put those friendship bracelets on. And she did it she armed up to go in incognito.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, really?

[Maureen Callahan]

One of our producers?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said Jenna, and I thought you meant Jenna.

[Maureen Callahan]

Jenna got conscripted into having the, like, let's talk about things that you and I have talked about ad nauseam.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now I got it. Now I got. I need to see every second of that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, I. I can only promise you good things.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's coming.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

We gotta be patient. Maybe I'll consult the Bible on change so that I can just get used to the fact that something big is gonna change for me when I read and read this book and watch your segment about Hoda.

[Maureen Callahan]

Copy Hoda and Jenna and Maria and Maria Shriver. All the. All the great minds of all the, you know, Socratic.

[Megyn Kelly]

Honestly, I think I was temporarily insane when I agreed to go to NBC. I really do. Sometimes I look back and I think I was suffering a temporary bout of insanity. It's funny, like with. With perspective and time, which you can see that in the moment seem like a good idea. My God. Pow, pow, pow. We'll be right back. You know what's crazy? Trusting the government or some random insurance agent to give good Medicare support. That's how people could wind up stuck in the wrong plan. Get this. Trump's Department of Justice sued three major Medicare brokers for pretending to be unbiased while allegedly pushing people into the plans that got the brokers the biggest kickbacks. Let's be honest here. The government made a mess of Medicare. No one should have to untangle that mess alone. This is why I want to tell you about chapter now. Chapter will compare every single plan nationwide, not just the ones that pay the biggest commissions. And because of that, they can save people an average of $1,100 a year. That's real money, especially in the economy that we've been dealing with for the past couple of years. So whether you are brand new to Medicare or you've been on it for years, consider making the call and finding out more. If you're already in the best plan, CHAPTER will tell you. If not, they could help you save thousands. It's free, it's fast. And in less than 20 minutes, they will review your options. Call the number 27 Medicare today. That's 27 Medicare. And finally, feel confident about your Medicare.

[Maureen Callahan]

Your skin should never come second. That's why PACT makes everyday essentials from the purest organic cotton. No toxins, no harsh chemicals, just softness you can feel good in. Because wellness isn't just what you put in your body. It's what you put on it too. From the first layer to the last, getting dressed should feel like self care. Visit wearpacked.com and use code dresswell for 15% off your first order packed. Dress yourself well.

[Megyn Kelly]

Whenever I need to send roses that are guaranteed to make someone's day, the only place I trust is 1-800-flowers.com with 1-800-flowers. My friends and family always receive stunning, high quality bouquets that they absolutely love. Right now, when you buy a dozen multicolored roses, 1-800-flowers will double your bouquet to two dozen roses.

[Maureen Callahan]

To claim this special double roses offer.

[Megyn Kelly]

Go to 1-800flowers.com Pandora that's 1-800-flowers.com Pandora we absolutely have to keep talking. It's more important now than ever.

[Dave Aronberg]

This fall, Megyn Kelly is taking her show live to cities nationwide.

[Megyn Kelly]

To go silent is not the answer. I'm going, I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show. We're gonna make it safe for me. We're gonna make it safe for my team and my guests and you and do something really important which is say what's true and what's real. And I would love for you to join me. MeganKelly.com for the tickets. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I, I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

[Dave Aronberg]

Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free. Offer details apply.

[Megyn Kelly]

And we're back with Maureen Callahan, host of the Nerve. All right, Serena Williams is in the news. Why? Because she was in New York to support her friend Kim Kardashian with some things she's doing with Nike. And Serena Williams was in town to like attend to it and she's in some hotel. We do not know which hotel she was staying in. She did not publicize that. But Serena Williams, who is one of the richest Americans alive, was triggered by something. Maureen and I'm going to show you what it was.

[Maureen Callahan]

All right, everyone, how do we feel about cotton as decoration? Personally, for me, it doesn't feel great. So actually it feels like nail polish remover cotton natural.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so at the end of that video, she's, she's plucked One of the cotton balls off of the plant, and she's using it to buff her nails. And then she. She does the hand gesture of, like, ew. Like, where you shake your hands like, ew, gross. And she drops it. Now, Serena Williams is triggered by cotton, I guess, because it used to be picked by slaves. And she's a Black American. It's 2025. Serena Williams is estimated by Forbes to be worth $350 million. She's married to a very, very rich man, too. She hung up her racket in 2022, ending a career in which she earned 95 million in prize money, more prize money than any female athlete in history. She has endorsement deals to this day with more than a dozen brands. She's active as an investor in her own venture capital firm. She's got a licensing deal with a beauty line. She's launched a multimedia company. She owns part of the Miami Dolphins. But she is an oppressed, direct descendant of slaves, I guess, and that's how she sees herself to this day, because, I guess generational trauma, as the kids call it. She can't walk by a cotton plant in a luxury hotel to go promote Kim Kardashian's skims line without feeling trauma that she has to videotape and post.

[Maureen Callahan]

On Insta in her new Ozempic body.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Or whatever the GLP one is. I'm sorry, it's not as it's. But she's on it and she's getting endorsement money for that very clearly. Well, if it's really, really that triggering, why not name them and shame them, Serena? Why not name and shame that luxury hotel? You want to know why? I bet she's getting a really sweetheart deal staying there, if not comped. So she's probably staying in a $25,000 a night presidential. Sweet. But she doesn't want to upset the powers that be by saying, this is the whatever. And by the way, this, first of all, Meghan Markle is like, what happened to me? I thought I was your best friend. Now you're over in New York with Kim Kardashian, who, by the way, is befouling the steps of the New York Public Library doing a skims event. There are models, like, on every step in, like, skims shapewear, and it's like, this is. Is this. What. Is the New York Public Library in need of this, this much money?

[Megyn Kelly]

Have they no standards whatsoever?

[Maureen Callahan]

It's. It really. It really does upset me. Like, not much upsets me, but, like, that, to me is like hallowed ground.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like, what are this? What's Kim and skims doing there?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Is there no standard whatsoever?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I just can't believe how much like the. The woke leftist types lean into victimhood. Like, this woman has it made. She is so lucky. She was born in the United States of America and was raised here and was given all the opportunities that she got made the most out of them by sheer grit, determination and talent. Absolutely nobody would take that away from her. Why does she want to associate herself with some sort of trigger by walking by cotton that. Because it just reminds you of slavery. That's it. Like, who? Honestly, like, we all know about slavery. And by the way, that's like me being like, I can't walk by the potatoes in the. In the Whole Foods because I'm trigger. My people, my Irish people. The potato famine, what was done to the Irish when they came to America? Like, we can all do that. That's the great Douglas Murray line. We can all do that. We can all do that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Have you ever heard the joke about the potato famine?

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Maureen Callahan]

Why didn't they just go fishing anyway? No, but this is the thing about Serena. She was always a brat. Like, she was always a brat on the tennis court. Like towards the end of her career when the. At her final U.S. open, it was the. It was one or two, maybe before the final, I forget. But she was losing and she wasn't supposed to lose. The narrative in all of us Ta, they all wanted her to win and go out as the queen. And Naomi. Along came Naomi Osaka, who was like derailing that narrative because, you know. And when Serena realized Naomi, with the 17 year old was beating her, she started throwing these fits. And that's a psychological trick to try to throw off your opponent. And at one point she goes up to the. She was. She got a foul or some sort.

[Megyn Kelly]

Of technical call because she yelled at the. The line ref, I'm a mother.

[Maureen Callahan]

She went into that. I'm a mother. You think I would lie? I'm a mother.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

That was like my favorite.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's right.

[Maureen Callahan]

All mothers are good.

[Megyn Kelly]

That wasn't that. She was accused of taking coaching from her coach.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And it was banned back then. It's not now.

[Maureen Callahan]

Her hot coach.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Who was like doing this. What I found a very sexual movement. She had had a relationship with him.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, whoa, whoa. I didn't know that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, yeah. And the coaching from the stand was like this. It was like. I swear to God. I swear, once you see it, you could never unsee it. You could never unsee it.

[Megyn Kelly]

You gotta watch this on YouTube. If you're not watching this on YouTube, go, go to the one hour or three minute mark. Wow. Well, I say please just stop. She's got homes in Paris, Beverly Hills, in Jupiter, Florida, which is one of the most posh, expensive areas you can. You can buy in. Her husband, by the way, was, I think the CEO of Reddit.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Or a co founder.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, co founder. And he resigned his post during the Black Lives Matter, George Floyd of Palooza period. So that a white. So that a black person could have it. He's white. Okay.

[Maureen Callahan]

He seems scared of her to me all the time whenever I see each other. That's why I did it together. Yeah, that's where I was going. Like, he seems afraid.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's ridiculous. I mean, like, you are hashtag part of the problem, sir. And I'm sure he's nurturing her fear of cotton right now as we speak. Okay. While we're on the subject of absurd people, Meghan Markle's back in the news. Our favorite. She gave an interview to Bloomberg. I know you're aware of this. Emily Chang at Bloomberg. And they had some. Some casual conversation. We'll start with, I guess, sat 39 for kicks. Is there an inherent tension in trying to be relatable while also being a duchess? Oh, God, no. I don't find. I'm just being myself. So I think probably it was different several years ago where I couldn't be as vocal and. And I had to wear nude pantyhose all the time. Let's be honest, that was not very myself. I hadn't seen pantyhose since movies in the 80s when they came in the little egg, that felt a little bit inauthentic. But that's a silly example. But it is an example of when you're able to dress the way you want to dress and you're able to say the things that are true and you're able to show up in the space really organically and authentically. Single tear.

[Maureen Callahan]

Show up in the space organically and authentically. It's the Hoda lexicon.

[Megyn Kelly]

She had it so tough, Maureen. She couldn't be her true self because they made her wear the nude pantyhose.

[Maureen Callahan]

And to say what you want to say, but I don't know what it is. What is it you want to say? Like, get it out. It's been 10 years. Spit it out. What are you trying to say, lady?

[Megyn Kelly]

For once and for all, spit it out is right.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, I mean, I'm just my authentic self. That's it. I mean, truer words were never not spoken by her. She's like, we. No one knows who she is. What we hear behind the scenes is that she's a bully who fires everybody, runs around think, only worried about herself. But when she gets on camera, she actually is a decent actress in being like, I'm just this super relatable person with her own flower sprinkles and, you know, candle line. And I just sit around being like a working mom. I'm just like all the other working moms.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right?

[Megyn Kelly]

That's me.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right? There's a there. I think it's before that part in the Emily episode, which is they're eating smash burgers at her favorite burger joint.

[Megyn Kelly]

We have it. We think you're talking about 37. Let's see. Things got real all before noon on a Tuesday. When do you feel the least, Duchess of Sussex.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, my God.

[Megyn Kelly]

This woman's an idiot. Sitting here eating a tamash burger with you being asked these questions. I'm having the same vibe as Pow, pow, pow.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. And also, what an insult to your interviewer who flew to Montecito. When do you feel the least, Duchess of Sussex. Sitting here with you. Sitting here with you.

[Megyn Kelly]

She deserved it. That was. That girl's an idiot. I'm sorry, but that. That interview is painful. Like, she's obsessed with the Duchess thing.

[Maureen Callahan]

She is. But also, like, again, you want to. You want a really interesting interview, right? You really want to go viral and make some noise. Like, you sit down with an antagonist. She should sit down with the likes of you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God. Can you imagine?

[Maureen Callahan]

Or the likes of me. Or like I said, on the nerves the other day, Like, I think the smartest thing Megan could have done was after we did, which the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, how they ignored with Meghan with a Y.

[Megyn Kelly]

We were dissed. It was wrong.

[Maureen Callahan]

We were robbed.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, we were totally robbed.

[Maureen Callahan]

I think the smartest play for her would have been to have her people reach out to you and say, hey, I'd like to come play. Like, can I come and do that version with you guys?

[Megyn Kelly]

Brilliant.

[Maureen Callahan]

And she would have been like, the next door neighbor that you didn't know moved in and we're just having, like, fancy. Whatever we were. I don't even.

[Megyn Kelly]

That would have made us like her.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, we would have had no choice.

[Megyn Kelly]

It would have been kind of sad.

[Maureen Callahan]

You have a sense of humor.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right? But it's no accident she didn't do It. Because she doesn't have a sense of humor about herself.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, no, no. I think she's got voodoo dolls of you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. And you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Don't drag me into this.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're in it, sister.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm a supporting player.

[Megyn Kelly]

Here's 38. We got one more to go. And yet there were mixed reviews.

[Maureen Callahan]

How did that land for you?

[Megyn Kelly]

I think I knew who I was trying to meet. I think oftentimes the negative voices. Are they saying negative things and then secretly going home and making single skillet spaghetti? Possibly. And that's all right. They're trying to pay their bills, and that's for them to sort out if they're comfortable doing it at someone else's detriment. From my standpoint, the intention of the show was to share more of myself, to share tips that I love in my life and to have fun. But there's this take that you're glorifying homemaking or glorifying trad wives. Oh, really? That feels odd to me. Yeah. How do you respond to that? That feels odd to me. I mean, I hadn't heard that, but I'm really unapologetic about the fact that, though. Would it be lovely to go and churn your own butter? Sure. Maybe. I don't have time for that. I don't have time for that. And I don't think you get an extra gold star if you do that. Oh, my God. I hate them both so much, with every fiber of my being. That interviewer is an idiot. Emily Chang. How dumb is she that there's. That, you know, there's a criticism that it's like promoting tradwives. Like, who would ever want to be. Like, you actually promoted domesticity. Who would ever want to do that?

[Maureen Callahan]

Right. You're promoting cooking and homemaking and taking care of your children and building a warm, loving environment. But Emily, you know, Emily's really. She's a very serious person because she puts her hand on her chin, she leans in a lot, and she's got.

[Megyn Kelly]

The super short hair.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes, we're very serious. We're very, very serious.

[Megyn Kelly]

And what a missed opportunity for Meghan Markle there. She should have said, first of all, you're an idiot. Let's start with that. And then she should have said, why would that be a bad thing?

[Maureen Callahan]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

What's wrong with staying home?

[Maureen Callahan]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Creating a great home for your family. I would have loved for her to turn it back on that interviewer. But instead she's like, oh, my God, I'm getting out progressive by my progressive interviewer. So, I mean, I'd love to stay at home and churn butter, but I don't have time for that. Meanwhile, you fudgeing showed us your beehive. What do you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh my God.

[Megyn Kelly]

Pick a lane.

[Maureen Callahan]

100%. She is. She is exactly doing that shit because she's part of the 1%. The reason she couldn't respond, I think quickly to that is because she's got a staff raising her kids. If she were really raising her kids.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

She would know that's the hardest job on the planet. She would feel it, never get time off. And you would say, you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. Right. In fact, that's the hardest job there is. So, yeah, I would lean into that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. She wasn't offended because she doesn't actually do that. She actually does look down on that, just like the interviewer does. That's what happened there.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's what she's doing. By the way, when she's not taking Emily to her favorite bookstore, where Emily's asking, what have you read lately? And she says, I don't have time to read. Okay, but this is my favorite place to go. The bookstore. Okay, okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is it jump for joy?

[Maureen Callahan]

Is she secretly ordering?

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so I just want to say that business about, well, are some people attack me to pay their bills, but then are they eating one pot pasta? I feel attacked. I think that was at us.

[Maureen Callahan]

I do too. But we weren't even secretly doing it.

[Megyn Kelly]

We made one pot pasta to mock you. We didn't actually make it to enjoy it.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, we didn't. But then I. So I believe this happened after we started. We stopped filming it. But then. But didn't we try it?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it actually was pretty good.

[Maureen Callahan]

It was pretty good. Yeah, it was like. But we can say that. We can say that.

[Megyn Kelly]

But it was Martha Stewart's recipe. That's why it's good.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right? Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

We worked off of Martha's recipe just like you did, Duchess.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I love how she says, if you feel comfortable denigrating people. Yeah, I do. And they deserve it.

[Megyn Kelly]

I totally do.

[Maureen Callahan]

I feel that aligns completely with my values.

[Megyn Kelly]

And.

[Maureen Callahan]

And she, she did it family. Until she killed.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

Queen and Prince Philip.

[Megyn Kelly]

So, you know, I didn't call my whole country racist like you did.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly.

[Megyn Kelly]

I didn't kill my grandmother in law.

[Maureen Callahan]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

None of that happened in my world.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, I didn't. I didn't cut my husband off from his entire family of origin and keep my children from a historical lineage the likes of which has never been seen since, like. Oh, my God. Megan, I have to tell you something before I forget. There is this documentary on Netflix that you will love. It is called Rebel Royals.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, my goodness. It's like if the Harry and Megan Story was funny. So it's about Princess Martha Louise of Norway, who falls in love with a black American shaman from la.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Maureen Callahan]

He's gay.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, that's a problem.

[Maureen Callahan]

But not for her.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you mean?

[Maureen Callahan]

It's like this. You see them planning their wedding, and it's so funny because he starts off, he's on camera first and two words out of his mouth, and I'm saying to myself, this guy's a gay guy. What's he doing? Four words in. He's like, now I am a gay man. Is this a problem? Not really.

[Megyn Kelly]

What?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, because he's like. He's coming into his full flower because he's gonna become a royal.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Who could blame him? This has got Cory Booker vibes.

[Maureen Callahan]

But it's. But it's. But it's like the opposite of. Because, like, you know, Meghan was exactly like the theater kid, and Meghan was like, what's a bigger stage than royalty?

[Megyn Kelly]

Right?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes, but she resists it. But. But, like, this guy's, like, all in one. And, like, even, like, the princess is divorced, and in Norway, it's a huge deal because, like, the royal family's really all they have culturally, and historically, it's a huge, huge deal. So they take it very seriously. And she's got these three children, girls from her first marriage, and they're, like, sitting around the table in la and they're just. Just talking to him, like. Yeah, like, you're like, my favorite gay uncle.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is hilarious. So they actually get married.

[Maureen Callahan]

Do you want to spoil it?

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, no, no, no, I don't. No. I've got her in now. Rebel Royals.

[Maureen Callahan]

You'll love it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, the thing about the beekeeping reminded me of something. Guess what happened to me the other day? I went out on our side deck, and I was reading, and then it got sunny. Too sunny. I was getting hot. And so I went over to. We have one of those umbrellas, you know, that blocks the sun. One of those big, like, patio umbrellas. And I went over to raise the umbrella part, and I put my hand underneath. I got stung. And then all these bees came out. I ran. I ran back into the house. I was under attack. I've never been stung by a bee before. Wow. Yeah. I've got 54 years without ever Having a bee sting. I'm like, where's this going? So then we called like, the bee guy to come deal with this, and he told me I had been attacked by the bees who were at the outpost. The big, what he said was aggressive hornet's nest was up a little higher on the house, like by the gutter in a corner, which we hadn't seen. It was huge. I can't believe we haven't been all killed by these hornets, which, if I showed you this, you would like, you'd run in fear. I had my hand up there, there was a second hive. I was attacked. And as it turns out, I have no bee allergy.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, you're lucky. That is. That is terrifying. That is terrifying. You think it's, like, not gonna happen. And like, you know, like, like a night, nice porch mask, whatever.

[Megyn Kelly]

Raised that umbrella in forever, you know, that was the problem. Like, we just never raised that umbrella. And unfortunately, I was the first one to go after, like two years and try to raise it up. And I, I went on chat GPT immediately to say, like, what do you do for a bee sting? And I did get some good advice. It said, get a credit card and rub it along where you can. Because I could see the stinger, like in my. It was sort of on the side of my thumb and rub it and that'll get the stinger out. Because if the stinger stays in, it continues delivering, like the poison. And it came right out. And sure enough, it can I tell you, like, it didn't hurt that bad.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, it's not that bad.

[Megyn Kelly]

Have you ever been stung by a bee?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, like once or twice.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it was not that bad, but I would have expected it to be horrible.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, it's not that bad.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is a wasp worse?

[Maureen Callahan]

I've never been stung by a wasp.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mosquitoes to me, taking your text, your emails now you can email me meganagancelly.com sometimes I give out my personal email by mistake and that's. I remembered not to do that. That's the show email, but I do read them. But anyway, that credit card will take out the stinger and save you, I think, considerable pain. So how about that for a little fun? Fun tip. Now, while we're on the subject of the royals, things are happening. Prince Harry unfortunately seems to be making up with the king. I know they had tea and cake and he's planning on spending a lot more time in the uk. And I, while I feel for King Charles, like, every parent wants to be with the son or the daughter, even if they're a ne' er do. Well, I object to this so strongly. I do not want those two going back into the royal family. And it seems like the groundwork is being laid.

[Maureen Callahan]

I object strenuously. And I think, you know, I also read that Harry has said he is going to enroll his children at Eton.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, no.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I feel this is my theory. I feel as though this is Charles waging war on William. Oh, Charles and William have a fractious relationship at Batman. And William is dead set on slimlining the monarchy. Slimming it down, rather. And, you know, did you see the Andrew next to him at that funeral for the Duchess of Kent? Andrew was trying to talk to William. They were together. And William's like, anywhere else. Anywhere else. And I kind of love William's energy right now. I find it very attractive. He's like, don't f with me. You know, like, I'm like, I mean business. And Harry's not getting back in, but I feel like Charles is trying to. He resents William in many ways. Apparently is the line and in welcoming in, making it clear that Harry may have a way back in. It's a dagger to me. It's a Cain and Abel story. It's the good son versus the bad son. And as so often in families where you have a ne' er do well or a problem child who's always causing grief, it's always those ones who get.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, chance after chance after chance. I know, it's infuriating. Long past the point where the siblings are done with his person.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, Prince William did give an interview, and it wasn't about this, but it was kind of personal. It was a preview. Eugene Levy of Schmidt's Creek did the interview. He has a new show called the Reluctant Traveler, and he actually. What a get to get Prince William to sit down with you. And here's a bit of it in SOT40.

[John Solomon]

Why don't you pop down to the castle, William, from the Prince of Wales. Your Royal Highness.

[Megyn Kelly]

Nice to see you.

[John Solomon]

We provide this service for everyone. We do personalized tours everywhere.

[Maureen Callahan]

What do you do when you're home?

[Megyn Kelly]

Sleep. Really? When you've got three small children?

[John Solomon]

Sleep was an important part of my Life. I'd say 2024 was the hardest year I've ever had. You know, life is sent to test us as well. And being able to overcome that is what makes us who we are.

[Megyn Kelly]

His accent is so divine.

[Maureen Callahan]

I know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Isn't it?

[Maureen Callahan]

I know.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's so nice. It's the Upper crust British accent without, like a moment spent on the wrong side of the tracks.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Very, very lovely to listen to.

[Maureen Callahan]

And economy of words.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Not a lot of filler like we get from the Kamalas and the Megans of the world where we're trying to. To squeeze a cogent thought out. So we're buying time with.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can you imagine him across from her having to listen to that?

[Maureen Callahan]

It's the greatest. I always say it's the greatest favor she ever did, that royal family. Can you imagine having to sit across from her and listen to the, like, nonsense and the social justice warrior language and the this and I, I mean, no, no.

[Megyn Kelly]

And every comment about herself, everything about herself literally back to me.

[Maureen Callahan]

Did you know that when I was a kid I wrote a letter to a dish soap company? You heard that one before.

[Megyn Kelly]

Exactly. I was a feminist right from the beginning. That's why I relate to you, Madam Queen.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes, exactly. You know. Yeah. I used to eat. I used to read Ms. Magazine while eating my tray table. What do you call those? TV dinners.

[Megyn Kelly]

Also, I'm totally ready to dump my own family, so.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right, right. I'm a person of real morals and character and I totally. I'll dump any. I'll throw anybody under the bus. So take. Pick me, pick me, pick me.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is a nice story that I wanted to get to Tim Allen, you know, Home Improvement. Tim Allen, he's great. He came out with this amazing revelation today. I think he posted it on X. Is that where he did it? Yeah, it was on X. And it relates to Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow, of course, and that extraordinary moment that we saw at Charlie's memorial.

[Maureen Callahan]

My husband Charlie, he wanted to save.

[Megyn Kelly]

Young men.

[Maureen Callahan]

Just like the one who took his life. That young man, that young man on the cross, our savior said, father, forgive them, for they not know what. What they do. That man.

[Megyn Kelly]

That young man, I forgive him. I feel like in a year that's going to be Charlie getting murdered and Erica forgiving the killer. Those are going to be the two moments that we remember about this story. Those two just almost equally extraordinary moments. And Tim Allen was watching and he posted on X when Erica Kirk spoke the words on the man who killed her husband. That man, that young man, I forgive him. That moment deeply affected me. I have struggled for over 60 years to forgive the man who killed my dad. I will say those words now as I type. I forgive the man who killed my father. Peace be with you all. And it turns out Tim Allen's dad was killed by a drunk driver. And I. And the dad, Tim Allen's dad was in the car with his wife and the kids. Tim was 11. I think he was one of them, I'm not totally sure. And his mom was killed. So can you imagine this poor guy who's gone on to become an international star. I'm sure he's got plenty of money. All these Hollywood contacts. Very sensible. I think he's right leaning though. He doesn't totally come out and in your face with it. And to say he was Inspired by this 36 year old woman at the height of her grieving who did an extraordinary thing. And you know, they say like forgiveness, if you can do it, releases you. It's a gift you give to yourself. It releases you from harboring resentment and anger and these things that can be corrosive.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like what a gift she gave to him, which obviously wasn't the intention, but like it has the effect of, you know, helping others when you do an extraordinary act of kindness.

[Maureen Callahan]

I had no idea that his father was killed and that he carried that around. There's so many people who have these, you know, Kelsey Grammer's another who had family members who were murdered. It's so interesting. You know, I heard that and I thought, I don't think I could ever really get there. I know, I believe that there. So this is just me speaking for me. I do believe there are people who don't deserve it. I do believe that. And I believe there's a. You can make your peace with something that happened that is tragic, senseless, unfair, unjust, a targeted, deliberate act that was thought through. I personally would not feel the need to forgive. That's just me. I would feel the need to make my peace with what happened. But as for what became of that person, not my. You know, in fact, I'd probably make it my business to make sure that. When we were talking about Brian Kohberger last time.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

I was like, I believe in the God of the Old Testament. Wrath and vengeance. Sometimes that's what's necessary.

[Megyn Kelly]

I want him to suffer. I know exactly what you're saying. I am more in your camp and I shouldn't be. I'm a Catholic. I know I'm supposed to forgive. We're meant to be persecuted and accept that as part of our lives. And we are called upon to forgive, you know, those who trespass as we forgive, those who trespass against us. And it's just so hard. Like I think eventually I can get there, you know, eventually on most things I get there. I'm definitely not in that mode on Charlie's killer yet. I mean, that's why Erica is so extraordinary. But she is a truly, deeply faithful person. And, you know, there are sliding scales of. Of how deep your faith is. I definitely think hers is deeper than mine, and it's uplifted her life probably more than mine, has uplifted mine. It's an inspiration for me. Like, try harder, read more, do better. Charlie was too. I don't know. I mean, we haven't really talked about the Charlie situation. You didn't know him. But did you see it? Did you watch it?

[Maureen Callahan]

I didn't watch it deliberately. My editor called and told me and said that he had seen it and that. That it was very clear that he was not gonna come back from it, that he clearly had been killed instantly. And then what I did was I was out. I came home, and I immediately turned you on because I was like, this is the only person that I'm gonna get the real story from, the real thing. And to see you and Mark and Rich talking about it and holding out the hope, and you find yourself in that moment wanting to believe there is hope when you know there probably is no hope. And all of it just seeming so surreal and so truly senseless and just a hideous act of violence that took the life of above and beyond anything, a young husband and father. You know, I don't know. It's something I wrestle with. You know, I was raised Catholic, and I'm not practicing, but I really wrestle with issues like what is moral? What is moral? Is it moral to make sure that someone who would methodically plan out a murder such as this and revel in it, is it more moral for that person to suffer or to be removed from society permanently? Is that.

[Megyn Kelly]

I do wonder, you mean like death penalty versus a terrible life in a supermax prison where he has to linger?

[Maureen Callahan]

And both are satisfactory to me, though I believe a person like Erica would say, well, no, the true highest level would be to forgive.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, she wants. I mean, I don't know. Actually, I shouldn't say, because she specifically said. She said to me personally, and she said in an interview with the New York Times, she said, let's just leave that up to law enforcement, because I don't want that on my soul. She's so sweet and loving. She's worried that if she endorses the death penalty for him, it could come back to haunt her. When she tries to get into heaven, she pictures Charlie there with Jesus. And if this is not moral to call for A man's death, she doesn't want it to count against her. She feels like it could keep her divided from Charlie forever. That's how observant she is and how thoughtful she is. Meanwhile, I was like, you do whatever you have to do. The rest of us got this. Like, you actually don't. You're handling it perfectly, because there's plenty of us out there who are calling for the death penalty and whose role that is. We all have our role. You know, Charlie used to say that. Charlie used to say, like, there's some people who are called to be, like, evangelists for the faith, and there are some people who are called to go on missions and spread the faith. And then there are other people who are called to be more rhetorical warriors, where, you know, we have to make points and we have to make arguments, and we have to make sure that we argue for justice and make sure that there are clear facts around why we need it and so on. And I definitely see myself in that latter camp. But Erica's role is. I actually see her right now as a very consequential figure. You know, I've been thinking a lot lately about faith and God and God's plan and why, why, why, why, why, why, why, if you would live the life Charlie led, would this happen to you? And I know that many people believe, and my fellow Christians believe, that this, too, was part of God's plan. You know that. And also, you can argue it's free will, basically, that the master plan of Charlie coming home was God's plan, but that there's free will, and that Charlie's decision to go that day and so on, that was his decision. I still can't quite get my arms around it. But I do see Erica as, like, this hugely consequential figure because millions of people have been inspired by what she did at that funeral and feel extra connected to their faith because of her, the Tim Allen thing. And it got me thinking, like, what if Erica was always meant, if you believe in a master plan, to be the one who would have the biggest impact on the world, on America, on young people. I don't know. Her journey professionally in the public eye is really just beginning in earnest. And God willing, she'll have, you know, 50, 60 more years to do it. But she's so extraordinary. She has a very different skill set than Charlie had. They're not lined up. Exactly. But what if her skill set and what she's about to bring to the world turns out to be equally extraordinary, you know, to what we got from Charlie, it's not to justify anything that happened to Charlie. I'm just saying, like, maybe we've been given this extremely gifted person because that's what. Exactly what we need for the next 36.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, it's funny you say that, because I've been thinking about that a lot. You know, she. Before this tragedy, her role, as they both saw it and agreed and enjoyed, was that she was his. She was the one who was the support. She was behind the scenes. And the way she stepped into a public role so seamlessly in the midst of an unthinkable, unthinkable tragedy, I thought to myself, you know, this woman, whether she realized it before or not, she's like a natural leader. She's a natural public person. She has something to say and something to offer. And what I find is such a fascinating takeaway is, you know, this is still so fresh and raw, and it's only been two weeks, but what's emerged from it is even amid conversations like you and I are having, you know, which is the more moral thing, it seems that there's been a shift towards wanting good to come of this and.

[Megyn Kelly]

Light to come of it from the normies anyway.

[Maureen Callahan]

But it's such a stark contrast to what happened after George Floyd or, you know, like, this sort of desire to destroy and to vent rage. And everybody feels rage. I mean, I feel. Even in listening to you over the past couple of weeks when this has happened and I hear the rage in your voice, and when I hear it, I think to myself, that's good. That's healthy. Like, you gotta get through the rage of it because it's so unfair, you know, and that's a healthy part of mourning, is being furious, furious. And then you get to the other side where you can really begin to see after the dust settles, what the larger point of it may be that is so beyond our own understanding.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I feel like I'm at the beginning of that. You know, I'm. I'm just putting a toe into reconciliation and, you know, acceptance and understanding. But, yeah, I have felt rageful, for sure. And I have. It has been cathartic. You know, people ask me about the show all the time, that this is my therapy, this is my catharsis, to sit on this set and be able to say what's real, what. What I think about the news to help other people who are trying to navigate a very difficult news landscape. If I don't do this, I don't know what I'd be doing. I'D be, I'd be. If I have a day off, Maureen, you should see me kicking around the house. Like, I don't. I, like I accomplish nothing. I. I can't do anything. I'm just like, it's four o'clock in the afternoon. I've done nothing. I just like, I don't even know what to do with myself now. On the weekend, we have it structured. We're like, no one expects me to be at work. So, like, my kids are there and Doug is there and we like, I know what to do. But if I have like an unexpected weekday off, I'm like, who am. I have no, I have no habits, no hobbies. I don't know what to do. So I love coming out here and having my say. And I've definitely felt rageful. And that thing you said about the day it happened, you mentioned Mark Halperin. That is one of the lasting images I'll have is Mark, who is such a tough reporter. He's a reporter's reporter. And I was shocked to see Mark openly weeping and really with the handkerchief non stop. And I was feeling it too. But, you know, I kind of expected that for myself. And it was something that really moved me because, you know, here he is, this man, like this chiseled reporter, you know, shoe leather guy. And it was just a moment where your humanity took over, no matter whether you're a man or a woman or, you know, shoe leather or not. And I heard from so many of the audience that the men and women who are feeling and going through exactly the same thing at the same time.

[Maureen Callahan]

When I saw that, my heart just went out to him. It went out to him because I could see him looking out of frame down at his phone and knowing that he was getting updates, updates, updates, and that they were terrible. And he looked like he was just somewhere, like he just had to rush himself into some sort of closed room that was like a conference center or whatever. So you're already probably feeling very discombobulated and you're getting this and you're trying to relay what you know of this person in art. Like when he said, I just caught myself speaking of Charlie in the past tense. And I hope that I will be having a beer with him down the line and saying, remember that, you know, and we all relate to those moments when we've heard a loved one has, and it's sudden, you know, Matthew McConaughey was talking about this with you and God, like, what an impressive guy he is.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wasn't he amazing?

[Maureen Callahan]

Like, if you said, who. Matthew McConaughey, deep thinker. You know, you go, but what a deep thinker.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. His image doesn't necessarily line up with what we experienced in that hour.

[Maureen Callahan]

And the way he was talking about raising his kids.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. You know, he lived it. You know, he intentionally left Hollywood. He went back to Texas. He raised his kids there for a reason, you know, with intention. He's from Texas. He's not one of these, like, celebs who gloms on and, like, puts on a pair of cowboy boots and is like, I'm from Texas. You know, like. No, he is. He's a Texan. He donates to the university, his time, his money. Like, I found him very impressive. And to have been writing those poems his whole life. He's clearly a reflective, thoughtful guy.

[Maureen Callahan]

He really is. And when he. He talked about revisiting them and going, oh, this was a really. This was a kid who was really trying to impress himself in the world. And he's. I had the thesaurus next to me, and that really just melted my heart. I just thought, like, God, somebody with a lot of self awareness who can kind of laugh at himself. And I remember watching him in that first True Detective.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. So good.

[Maureen Callahan]

Blown away by him. Blown away. And just. I just. And honestly, there are very few Hollywood stars where when something terrible happens, you're like, you know, I'd really like to hear from this person.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, true. It's true.

[Maureen Callahan]

And after Uvalde and he and his wife, because they were natives, because they're from there and they can speak to it, and everything about it felt genuine. It didn't feel as though he was using as.

[Megyn Kelly]

As one Megan Markle down there, unlike someone else, you know, which she should.

[Maureen Callahan]

Never be forgiven for. Talk about things. You never forgive that. I would never forgive that. Disgusting. You know, but, yeah, I just loved him. And, oh, by the way, speaking of rage, I think one of your favorite targets of mine that you did the other day is Jimmy Kimmel.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my gosh. Believe with the tears.

[Maureen Callahan]

May I share my theory?

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, please do.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I watched that. You know, I had you, and all I could think of was, remember John Boehner?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. House Speaker John Boehner, who would get.

[Maureen Callahan]

On the floor and start weeping about anything.

[Megyn Kelly]

And cried a lot.

[Maureen Callahan]

Everybody. The working theory which I subscribe to is, like, either just my opinion, a dry drunk or an active alcoholic. And the emotions are always up here. And so you could be talking about the price of milk, but we're gonna start weeping.

[Megyn Kelly]

Jimmy Kimmel Allegedly.

[Maureen Callahan]

Allegedly. But Jimmy Kimmel. I look at the sudden weeping out of nowhere and I'm like, this guy, this guy's not well. Yeah, Like, I mean, I think he's terrible and I think he was a liar. Like, you said what you said. We all heard it. It's on videotape. What are you talking about?

[Megyn Kelly]

That's right.

[Maureen Callahan]

But the weeping. I'm like, did you lose a husband? Like, shut up.

[Megyn Kelly]

What are you crying for? It's true. And he didn't cry one tear for Erica Kirk.

[Maureen Callahan]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

One tear. They were all for himself. It was so obvious. It's like if he actually had tears to shed for Erica, it would have happened right after Charlie was killed. He got out there and cried. Cause he almost lost his favorite thing, his special show, his ability to feel like a star because he can read jokes other people write for him. I mean, that's his special talent. He's not some great interviewer. He's actually not even that great a comedian. Somebody else writes these so called jokes, which are not even funny, by the way.

[Maureen Callahan]

They're not. They're not. The quote, unquote jokes in the monologue were not funny. Not funny at all. And so my favorite thing about this is, you know, we had so many of us, Jimmy's famous friends coming to his defense. You know, first amendment's on the line. First Amendment, you know, our way of life, very way of life is being threatened. His most famous, famous, powerful, A list friends, Jennifer Aniston and one Matthew Damon, kept their mouths shut.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. What's up with that?

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, I wonder. They're too smart. They're not gonna go near this third rail.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

So is the First Amendment under attack or is it not? Because if Jennifer Aniston doesn't think so, then I sure do.

[Megyn Kelly]

I noticed the same thing. Like the ones that he's having the weekly dinner parties with, the flights to.

[Maureen Callahan]

Mexico, the summer, the yearly John Stacabo.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can I tell you something? So I don't really know Matt Damon, but I know him a little. We ski at the same place, so I see him every winter. And he is a good guy.

[Maureen Callahan]

He seems like a great guy.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's definitely a Dem. And he was raised by, I think a school teacher. And you know, he's got sort of that like union and teacher and you know, blue collar thing. Yeah, that's great. But he's. He doesn't put his politics in your face.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like all of them do.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And he's somebody who's. He's always been Very nice to me. And he knows my politics. Of course. I don't make any secret of them. And that's. That's to his credit. Right. Because they don't all.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like, that's true.

[Megyn Kelly]

That some committed leftists will hate you when they find out you're on the right or never mind a Trump supporter. Yeah. Like you're immediately moved into the bad person category. Yeah. So that's to his credit. Now you're right. He was probably way too smart to touch that with a ten foot pole.

[Maureen Callahan]

I like Matt Damon a lot. I do. And I think he's very, very smart. I think he knows what's up and I don't. I didn't believe Jimmy Kimmel when he said, you know, I have a lot of people in my life who are on the other side. Like, his eyes couldn't stay to the.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's it.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, Adam Carolla.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's it. We love Adam. But that's. It's a list of one. I don't believe that he's got a bunch of Republicans in his family. Bull.

[Maureen Callahan]

No way. You know, but, you know, okay, Jimmy. Jimmy saved his failing talk show for another, I guess, eight months. I mean, I think he wanted out. I think he was gonna. I thought he was gonna use. That is his parachute out.

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't think he wants out. I think he wants to stay there forever. He would never feel okay in the podcast lane. That's. I think he thinks that's beneath him.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, you think so?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I think he desperately wants to hold onto this show. He keeps telling us how it's like it's doing well. No, it's not. It's not doing well at all. He's making the argument for why it's still relevant. Deserves to be on the air now. I didn't hear this person's thoughts, but I do know why she's busy. Hilaria Baldwin, she did not weigh in on the Jimmy Kimmel sock, as far as I know.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, he didn't. He didn't give a speech in Spanish, so she didn't understand the whole thing. English is her second language.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's doing Dancing with the Stars. This is like, I'm starting to feel bad for her. Like, she's basically just doing anything she can to keep herself in the news. You know, it's like whatever I can to be on camera. Like that ridiculous reality show that she and Alec were doing. You know, her weird stints is like a cook or some sort of home expert on the Today show. And now Dancing with The Stars. And she gave an interview on GMA where something familiar came back. See if you can detect it. SOP 41. I mean, this was just like, an insane thing that I did, and I've had so many times. I'm less and less now because my kids are so happy. But at the beginning, I was like, am I crazy? Like, is this really. It was, like, a few days I signed the paperwork between landing and getting my bags. Like, that's how fast this whole thing was. It was like a real. It was interesting because fans started to write into the show just saying, you should be on Dancing the Star shoot. And I was kind of like, really? Really? And then Dancing on the Stars and I connected, and now we're here. It was just a very interesting experience, like, very organic panic, how it happened. And so, I mean, I wouldn't have taken this if I couldn't bring my kids, but it meant, you know, they were set to go to school. We had all their backpacks. We were. Had their extracurricular activities, and it was transferred down here. And they're so happy because it's an exercise. You know, I was worried that it was gonna be not fair to them, but actually, it's been one of the best things that's ever happened to them. You are a white girl from Rhode Island.

[Maureen Callahan]

She's wearing a lot of body makeup.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

She either went to the tanning bed or, you know, we were buffed up by some makeup artist.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's camouflaging who she is in many ways.

[Maureen Callahan]

In many ways. And, you know, so my favorite thing was watching the expression on her partner's face. She's like, make it stop.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

Dying.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's doing the accent. Oh, my God. I don't want to be standing here for this.

[Maureen Callahan]

Backpacks. Get me out of here.

[Megyn Kelly]

She can't stop herself.

[Maureen Callahan]

She can't. It's. It's like a pathological. Like, it's. The DSM needs, like, a new categorization. I don't know if. If it's like, name it. Hilaria Baldwin.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Hilarious. Silent H. She's Hillary from Rhode Island. She went to Boston University. She has a trust fund. She went to a fancy Tony private school out there. Like, this person is not Spanish.

[Maureen Callahan]

I just. Why does everybody play along, though? Why doesn't her interviewer for Dancing with the Stars say, why are you speaking in a Spanish accent right now?

[Megyn Kelly]

You crazy? That person is, like, TV gold. Keep going.

[Maureen Callahan]

But I just want somebody anywhere to just stick. Just somebody from an access or an entertainment Tonight just say, well, I mean, I know she gave the explanation on the unwatchable reality show which is she's multi.

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know, whatever.

[Maureen Callahan]

But the, the, the partner's like face just dying just like, just like exit me. Now.

[Megyn Kelly]

What would be great is if a white non Spanish interviewer started to do it too. Like go on or just start speaking.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like get me a real Spanish speaker.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like let's do this in your native.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. She can speak Spanish. Of course she's leaned in, she's method. But she's got this thing she does. Like she, she's doing some weird podcast with her 11 year old daughter. I think we have it. Yeah. Do we have it? It's sat 43. She does this thing. Let me see if we have it in this clip. But she does this thing. She did it to Alec and I read in the longer clip here. I don't know if this is in there but, but she's like, to Alex, she was like, when I'm talking, you're not talking. And to this daughter, same thing. Like, what I want to hear from you is, anyway, here she is. Oh, 42. Let's listen to 42 from you. Is your experience of this, your excitement, your fears. What do you think about that? What do you. Do you think I'm crazy? Yes. In like a good way or a bad way or both ways. You're a crazy person. Yeah. And what's it like to have a crazy mommy? Me? It's fun. You're not necessarily crazy. It's. You let me be crazy like you let me do things and you have crazy ideas. Because when it was up until this year, we didn't travel. We were just, we would always stay at home. We'd go to Vermont. But do you know why?

[Maureen Callahan]

Crystal Springs?

[Megyn Kelly]

Know why? I don't know why. Because we were dealing with the trial, we were dealing with your dad who was very sick. The spring break before that, he almost died and was in the hospital. We're allowed to talk about that? Yes. Yeah, I've talked about it. I wrote about it in my book. Oh my God. There's a lot happening there, Maureen. Me, me, me, me. What do you think of me, me, me. Devastating news about your father. And it was in my book.

[Maureen Callahan]

It was in my book. You didn't read my book. You didn't read my book, kid.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh my God. She's 11.

[Maureen Callahan]

She's 11 and she's already mimicking mommy's yoga poses in that chair. Very sad.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why this feels so exploitative.

[Maureen Callahan]

It feels very red table talk adjacent. You know, where Jada would have the kids come on and talk. And Will and talk about how she was having a sexual relationship with their young son's friend in front of Will, who is cuckolded. And, like, this all feels so, like. Like, I think this is a form of child abuse. I do. I think it's very dark.

[Megyn Kelly]

I, like, I don't. I think 11 is very young to be doing something like this. Like, that's really young. And like, you shouldn't be talking about family secrets. And like, how the father was devastated and almost died, was in the hospital. Like, this should not be be revealed to your child on camera so loosely. Obviously, the mother's a narcissist. That was a lot too. Like, none of that seems healthy to me. By the way, you'll be shocked to learn that their YouTube channel has 28 subscribers. Episode one has 91 views. So that's. It's not going that well. Here's. Okay, Lauren labruno, my producer, really wants to play one other one. Go ahead, Lauren, play it. Yes. At least I can. No, but the one thing is, I'm being so honest.

[Maureen Callahan]

You.

[Megyn Kelly]

You are one of the best people on Dancing with the Stars. Who is not a pro. Gleb is one of the best pros. The only problem is popularity. You have not that many.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like, you're.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're known, but you're not. Like super, super well known than all these people, but you're more skilled than.

[Maureen Callahan]

Them.

[Megyn Kelly]

Notwithstanding your best efforts.

[Maureen Callahan]

She put the shiv in like you learned product of a difficult mother. I know how to do this. Yes. She put the. Like, you know, your problem is. I mean, you're better than they are, but you're.

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Maureen Callahan]

Nobody really likes you. That's what she was saying. People don't like you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Work on that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Try. Try your best.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's gonna get them all the way up to 100 viewers, I think.

[Maureen Callahan]

100%.

[Megyn Kelly]

I think they really. They've changed things. Before we leave, the story of Hilaria. Hilaria. We've got to have the. The oldie, but. Goody. Do we have the oldie? Yeah, we do. S46, please. We have very few ingredients. We have tomatoes. We have.

[Maureen Callahan]

How do you say anything?

[Megyn Kelly]

Cucumber. Cucumbers. How you say in English. How you say in English. She knows how you say it in English. And speaking of Hollywood kids who clearly have not been well served by their parents, Violet Affleck, the daughter of Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner, by this point. You guys have heard this story. Showed up at the UN this week in a an N95 mask which she has never stopped wearing since COVID and gave testimony on how we all need to be wearing these masks everywhere. Here she is, Sat 48. But when it comes to the ongoing pandemic, our present is being stolen right in front of our eyes. For adults, the relentless beat of back to normal ignoring downplay and concealing both the prevalence of airborne transmission and the threat of long Covid manifested in a series of choices. Young people lacked both real choice in the matter and information about what was being chosen for us. It is neglect of the highest order to look children in the eyes and say we knew how to protect you and we didn't do it. We have access to a technology to prevent airborne disease. Something that millions of our ancestors and millions of people around the world today day would kill for.

[Maureen Callahan]

And we refuse to use it.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I shudder to think of where we will be in another five years of unmitigated infection and reinfection. That's abuse.

[Maureen Callahan]

This poor girl is not well, but not in the way she thinks.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's exactly.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

They. That's a form of child abuse to let your child grow up and be that paranoid about disease that she thinks the whole world needs a mandatory mask mandate.

[Maureen Callahan]

And then to allow a platform based on your parents fame so that you find yourself at 19 and a college freshman at the UN. Why is Violet Affleck at the United Nations? The biggest problems are Israel, Palestine, Russia, Ukraine. And she's at the United nations, by the way, making a nonsensical argument saying that this technology, which is a physical barrier, it's not Elon Musk's SpaceX, okay sister? That our ancestors would have killed for. I mean, we got here through immunology and virology. Like that's the propagation of the human species.

[Megyn Kelly]

Good point.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thirdly, this is the legacy of Greta Thunberg.

[Megyn Kelly]

Totally getting Greta Thunberg vibes. How dare you. How dare you stolen my childhood. Yo. It's ridiculous. Like I can't believe somebody didn't show her Greta Thunberg beforehand and said do the opposite of that.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I just read that the latest attempt at thwarting Greta's like third flotilla attempt was to play ABBA as like a sort of like this is your. This is the biggest cultural thing you got. Like abba.

[Megyn Kelly]

But that's abba's great.

[Maureen Callahan]

I love abba.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, no, I love Dancing Queen.

[Maureen Callahan]

Abba's amazing. But You? Yeah. No, this is wild to me. And my other favorite story was she'll be photographed in LA rolling around in $2,000 Chloe handbags with her N95 on, of course. And she reportedly. I mean, the Daily Mail had this story that during the LA wildfires, Jennifer Garner, remember Ben scooped them up. J. Lo, he was in the. And they went to the Beverly Hills Hotel, reportedly. And Violet threw a fit because she was like, this is some 1%. Like, we shouldn't be staying here.

[Megyn Kelly]

We're too.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, it's like, this is. This is.

[Megyn Kelly]

Where would you like to be? Holiday Inn.

[Maureen Callahan]

What, Motel 6? Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Then you'll be happy.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So this is a parenting failure. I entirely blame the parents. And don't they have another kid who's trans?

[Maureen Callahan]

Allegedly.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, they have another kid who they say is trans, and then he was with JLo and she has a kid who's Marc Anthony's who has declared themselves non binary. So great job. Great job. You've got three kids who seem pretty addled with mental challenges. And I'm sorry, but Violet Affleck put herself out there, so she is fair game. Yes. This is very wrong. This girl is as. As addled as somebody who's an active anorexic or in a deep depression or has, you know, crippling anxiety, which is clearly what we're looking at there, I think. So the proper response from the parent is to say, take that off, you're fine. I mean, and. And to not even get her to the point where when we're putting on the masks, she's that terrified to begin with. Like, clearly this girl needs an unorthodox, unhealthy way of showing the world she matters.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Of getting attention. You know? Yes. Born to two parents who clearly love attention on themselves. That's obvious. Who couldn't keep their marriage together. Okay, fine, it happens. But all the more reason your attention should be flowing into your child, because divorce can create issues. Clearly, you didn't do that. And now she's created this new unhealthy way for herself, in my opinion, to make herself feel important and relevant and like, she's the star instead of all these fucked up parents around her.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, it's interesting with the Greta comparison, you know, her parents are failed performers. Like, her parents are failed actors. Like, I think her mother's a failed rock star and her father's a failed actor or vice versa. And they sort of. This was their way of, like, vicariously getting that, like, that kind of level of fame. And with Violet Affleck. You know what's fascinating to me is, and I think I would be alarmed as if I were her parent that like the way this is manifesting is through masking oneself, which if you want to unlayer the metaphors of that, you know, it's deep and she's coming at the world from a very fearful place. Like you should be spreading your wings at college, especially like you're a kid who can fly home private, you can go on these lavish vacations, you know, you have access to the best and you should be having the time of your life. And this girl is hunkering down in her dorm room afraid of to go to like a party. That's like tragic.

[Megyn Kelly]

They turned her into a Taylor Lorenz who's like, put on your masks. It's, this is inhumane what you're all doing to me. Walking around out there breathing freely, like, how is she going to function in the world? How's she ever going to get a job in a workplace? I realize she never has to work if she doesn't want to, but like, who doesn't want their child to get a job and work and be a contributing member of society? She's already crossed over to the far left lecturing us phase of progressivism.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, it's like, it's almost like this is the kind of thing where you feel like you just take the child and at 19, I mean she's, you know, she's on the cusp of adulthood, but you get her to the best of the best. In psychiatry and psychology, you get her to the best and you work on what to me seems like, you know, and I say that, you know, I've talked to you about like being a kid who had real ocd. Like this feels like a kind of obsessive compulsive manifestation of like what really is like deep anxiety and maybe some anger because a lot of depression is actually self directed anger because it's too scary to unleash it like at the places and people you really have it for.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, I just think if this were my child, this wouldn't be my child. I would not raise my child to be like this. But if this were for some reason, I, I would not be going to the therapist. I would be taking off my work for a year and she and I would be traveling. We'd be going coast to coast in America in our car, we'd be going over to Europe, maybe go back to Provence. That was pretty damn good. We'd be together all the time. We'd drive each other crazy. I'm sure if that were my kid for the beginning. And then there'd come a period where we'd settle down into a rhythm and we'd get closer and closer and closer and I'd be giving her all the attention and love that she needed, that I clearly failed to give her before this point. And we would get super tight and she would be reminded of what matters and who she is and that she doesn't need to do this crap in order to feel of value. But I will say, I think that Dr. Leonard Sachs, who comes on the show sometimes and talks about parenting advice, you do get to a point beyond which you can't fix what you did, you know, and 19 is probably pretty close to that point. Like, this needed to be addressed a lot earlier. And she's. It's been five years since COVID She has been in a mask for, for five years.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's, you know, it makes you wonder too, about, like her peer group and who her friends are. Because, you know, of course, even before that age, they have a lot more influence than your parents as you're breaking away. And is this healthy? And you would think that her peer group would encourage her. Like, Violet, let's go out one night on the quad. It's like, it's fresh air.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'll bet it's the opposite party. Don't you think? It's probably like Violet's got her special thing. You know, Violet wants to talk to the class about her special thing, her weird mask obsession. I'll bet you out in Hollywood they're all leaning into this. And by the way, there's no way every single one of her friends is not masked.

[Maureen Callahan]

You think?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes, she's pissed off. You and I aren't masked. Can you imagine her hanging out with people who are free faced?

[Maureen Callahan]

But she does it. She walks with her mother, she walks with her father. Oh, this is the best part. The Daily Mail pointed this out. So smart.

[Megyn Kelly]

Smart.

[Maureen Callahan]

She, she talked about, like, smoking being a difficult thing. Like, Ben is a chain smoker. We see the pictures of him all the time. Like, it can't be both, right? Your parents can't be out in the world bringing in whatever they're bringing in from the community. Your father can't be a chain smoker and you are in it like an end. Like, I find the N95 mask, the metaphor of all metaphors for, like growing up in that house. Like, I am, I am, I am uncontaminating myself from the pollutants.

[Megyn Kelly]

In the Garner Affleck household, yes, it is just a reminder. We say this all the time, but you look from the outside at these, like very wealthy, very famous families and there tends to be a, you know, knee jerk of like, oh, they have it all. They've got these multi million dollar mansions in the Hollywood hills, these amazing swimming pools and all this staff, the fancy airplane and cars. No, no, I'm sorry. But like. And I hope that Violet Affleck gets past this. I really hope the trans kid and the non binary kid, which is not a thing, get pulled out of that dangerous, dangerous delusion. But I don't have a ton of like, optimism about it because it would require stronger parents than they apparently have.

[Maureen Callahan]

I hope. You know, sometimes it's like a kid can get there on their own and if they. This is, let's just say this is some sort of her version of rebellion. It's not sex, it's not drugs, it's not rock and roll. It's an N95.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, God.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like, let's hope that like, she can get herself to the other side of this. And this is just a, you know, it's a very difficult time. 19, really, it's really hard. I had a really hard time. I had an eating disorder at 19. It was not easy, but, you know, I got myself out of it. It wasn't my parents who got me out of it. I got myself out of it, you know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did something happen?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, well, I actually had a mentor who was also a very close friend of mine and we worked together and she took me out. She'll know who she is if she's listening. She took me out to lunch one day and she said, we are sitting here until you eat.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Maureen Callahan]

What's on your plate? And we're not leaving until you do. And I actually had like, I had to confess and break down and have this like sort of come to Jesus that I hadn't really had with myself. And I was so weak and depleted. And I said, I don't know if I physically can because my stomach has shrunk so much and my brain has rewired so much that it doesn't want food and I'm gonna get sick. And she said, just do what you can do, you know, it was like one of the most loving things anybody has ever done for me. And she pulled me back by the scruff of my neck because I was this close to needing professional help. Like, that close. So, you know, sometimes it's the kid does find their way or they find the people, they need to, like, influence them in the right way. So maybe she has that down the lines for her.

[Megyn Kelly]

We have to end it on a positive note. All right? We're hoping that a she gets out of, like, that Hollywood circle and finds people who can be a good, genuinely good influence on her. The best thing that happened to me this week was, is my daughter's playing soccer in her high school. And it's nothing extraordinary, but it's. The games come right after the show goes off the air. So I have time, you know, if Abby knows that we have a home game, she blocks my afternoon and I go, and I'm telling you, Maureen, it is so wonderful over there. It's just a high school soccer game. This is not the Olympics or the World cup or what have you. Just, just yesterday we went. We were playing our rival. When we got there, it was 1:1 because we got there, like 20 minutes late. And so it was tense. It was, like, tight. Finally, we went up one goal and it was 2:1. And then all you can do is watch your watch, like, please make time go faster. You know, you're praying and the other team's praying for exactly the opposite. We can still do it. We've been there, too. And, you know, you're watching your kid out there doing her thing. You're like, oh, please, God, you know, make it go well for her. Make everybody have a good time. And all the parents who we don't know, you know, because we're new, she's a freshman. So this is. These are a bunch of people who've been on this team for a while now. Suddenly we're high fiving people. We have no idea who they are, you know, but these are going to be our fellow parents on this team for a while. You. You come together. It was like the ending seconds when they had the ball down by our goal and the other team was almost scoring over and over and over. They had the ball right in front of our goal for too long, and the parents on our team started yelling, blow the whistle. You know, blow the W. Like, end the game. Like, we were over. It seemed like we were way over. It was just such a dumb chant. It's like the ref is going to blow the whistle when the time is over, but you just, you feel so powerless, like, yes, please, blow the whistle. And. And we did win. And it was disproportionately joyful to what was actually happening in front of us. But that is the stuff.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's it. That's it. That's what you need, you know, like, you need moments with your friends or your family or, like, sitting here together, talking and laughing. This is the good stuff that gets us through.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's it. You can again. You can. I think about this all the time. You can have the trappings, you can have the whatever, and it doesn't. It doesn't feel anything the way that, like, meaningful relationships with people you love and want the best for. And that's a rare thing, too, you know, not everybody wants the best for everybody else.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's true.

[Maureen Callahan]

But when you find those people and they're like rare birds, and I consider you one of them, you know, not to have an Oprah, Gayle thing, you know, but pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. Where Liz Gilbert's over there, and Oprah and Gail are like, you're my river person. But, you know, you know what I'm saying? It's like, those are like. Those are like. That's like the stuff where it's like you feel like there's a bit of, like, what Matthew McConaughey would probably say, stardust at work, you know, where it's.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like things line up, up, and we need it. It's like it's been such a hard two weeks. It's when those little moments come, just sitting here with you laughing, that the soccer game, we have to take them. We have to recognize, like, it's not the extraordinary thing, like, you win an Oscar or whatever the equivalent is, you know, it's that it's this. So I'm so glad we gave it to the audience, too, because I know they're at home feeling it, too. They know you. They. They know me. And I know they love when we get together because we're saying all the things they're thinking, too.

[Maureen Callahan]

I think so, too. And I think I'm really. I'm just happy to see you in person. As you know, I've been thinking about you a lot these past two weeks, and I'm just so happy to see you looking good. And thank you, lady.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you. I am doing well. Great to see you. All right. And thanks to all of you for sticking with us. This is a long one. You know, we knew we were going to have to do a good chunk on the indictment of Jim's, of James Comey, but I'm like, there's no way we're shortening Maureen. So we did a long show today. You can take it however it works for you this weekend. But enjoy. Lots of love and we'll see y' all on Monday. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.

[Maureen Callahan]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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