← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dems Mad at Memes, Lemon and Reid's Racialized Crime Comments, and Michelle Can't Stand Barack, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1161
01:45:01
Megyn Kelly is joined by Glenn Greenwald, host of Rumble's "System Update," to discuss the Democratic “theater kids" performing their talking points on the government shutdown, how Trump is at the center of the shutdown arguments, Trump trolling Dems with even more AI videos of sombreros and Hakeem Jeffries, the ongoing freakout on the left over jokes, completely false rumors that spread about her joining CBS News, what's really behind the urge to prop up legacy media still, Don Lemon and Joy Reid's comments about white men and racializing crime statistics, the truth about what the stats actually show, the importance of talking with those we disagree with, why touching grass and getting off the internet is good for our culture, Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert whining and making fun of Trump and MAGA, Michelle Obama’s latest remarks suggesting she can't stand Barack, and more. More from Greenwald: https://rumble.com/c/GGreenwald All Family Pharmacy: Order now at https://allfamily...
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- [00:00]
Megyn Kelly
America is built on hard work and powered by American energy. Chevron has spent $44 billion with local businesses across all 50 states since 2022, fueling infrastructure and communities, all while strengthening local economies. Last year, Chevron increased U.S. production nearly 20%, powering communities and businesses from the heartlands to the coasts. We're helping to fuel America's energy advantage, building a brighter future right here at home. Visit chevron.comamera to discover more. Being diagnosed with a blood cancer like leukemia, lymphoma or myeloma makes people want more time to do the things they love. That means more time to be movie buffs, jazz collectors, teammates and grandparents.
- [00:41]
Glenn Greenwald
We are Blood Cancer United.
- [00:43]
Megyn Kelly
Since our founding in 1949, we've been the world's leading organization focused solely on blood cancer research, support and advocacy. We do the most for more people.
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Glenn Greenwald
With blood cancer, so people with blood cancer can do more of whatever they want. Blood Cancer United.
- [00:57]
Megyn Kelly
Join us and donate today@bloodcancerunited.org welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. Well, the government has been shut down since midnight and both sides don't seem to be anywhere near a deal. Can you feel the excitement? I mean, I guess they did it this time, so that's something new. Normally they just do the brinksmanship up until the last second and they cut a deal. And I don't like, okay, this is, this is our government. The Democrats seem more concerned about Trump's funny AI videos that put sombreros.
- [01:45]
Glenn Greenwald
On people.
- [01:48]
Megyn Kelly
Than in getting the government going again. We'll talk about what they're doing. Plus, Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert appeared on each other's shows last night where they once again played the I'm a millionaire victim card. That's a thing for them. Joining me now to react to all of this and more is Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and host of Rumble's System Update, Glenn Greenwald. It's that time for Medicare annual enrollment again. The mailers, the robocalls, the texts blowing up your phone. It can be a circus, but this is one Medicare message you need to hear. Here is the truth. Medicare plans can change every year and in 2026, premiums are jumping while many benefits are being cut. That means even if you like your current plan, your costs could go up or you could lose coverage for things you depend on. So let me tell you about chapter they are the only advisors who compare Every plan nationwide to make sure you are on the plan that best fits your needs. On average, they save people 1100 bucks a year. I get it. Nobody wants to deal with Medicare, but in under 20 minutes, Chapter can review your options. If your plan is already the best for 2026, great, you're done. If not, they will help you switch before rising costs hit your wallet. No gimmicks, no pushy sales, just straight talk from people who know Medicare inside and out. Call chapter today at 27 Medicare. That's 2. 7 Medicare. To talk to a trusted advisor today. Glenn, great to see you again. Thanks for being here.
- [03:22]
Glenn Greenwald
Happy to be here, Megan. Thanks for having me.
- [03:25]
Megyn Kelly
I mean. All right, we'll start with the shutdown. It's gonna be fun when we get to Kimmel and Colbert, but we'll start with the shutdown. So they weren't to strike a deal. To me, it's so galling because it's like what the Democrats are saying is we want you to undo some of the things that just passed in the big, beautiful bill. Well, that. You already lost that fight. It's been signed into law. It's law now. And they're like, we're not going to fund the government unless you reverse pieces of your law. And the Republicans are like, that's not how legislation is done or undone, and that's not how spending is negotiated. And. And I think, as near as I can tell, the Democrats are trying to follow the Ezra Klein rule where he was like, we've got to get out there and fight. We have that sound bite, do we not? We have Ezra Klein with his warning. Oh, no, sorry. It was an. It was an article. And I'll read it to you what he said in part, but this is Ezra Klein saying, we got to fight. It's the New York Times op ed. I often heard people complain that Democrats lacked a message. What Democrats really lacked was powerful. And so we're facing the question again, should Senate Democrats partner with Senate Republicans to fund this government? I don't see how they can. We are no longer in the muzzle velocity stage of this presidency. We are in the authoritarian consolidation stage of this presidency. I want to be very clear about what I'm saying here. Donald Trump is corrupting the government. He's using it to hound his enemies, line his pockets and entrench his own power. This is what Democrats cannot fund. This is what they have to try to stop. This is not just how authoritarianism happens. This is authoritarianism happening. Right now. Democrats have no power. So no one cares what they have to say. A shutdown would make people listen. And I think, near as I can tell, that's exactly what's happening now. Glenn, your thoughts on it?
- [05:14]
Glenn Greenwald
I sense this kind of ennui and almost boredom in the tone you use when you first started talking about this government shutdown. And I feel the same way. I was talking to my team about it, you know, this week in terms of how we were going to cover it. And I said, you know, I feel like this is something, if you pay attention to politics, happens basically every two years. There's kind of a brinksmanship. Sometimes they even do shut down the government for the while. Each side goes on cable all day and blames the other, and eventually it works out. I do think that the, what really is going on, more so than any fight over a particular budgetary item, is the fact that, you know, we often talk about how, how Democrats are so, you know, historically unpopular. And the main reason is, is because their own base also views the Democratic Party in, in a very negative way. And the reason for that is that they perceive the Democrats aren't fighting enough in order to stop Trump. And there's a lot of pressure among Democratic Party elected officials, including, you know, the kind of message that you just read from Ezra Klein, to show some sort of battle, to show some sort of willingness to confront Trump. And the problem for the Democrats is not that they keep trying to embrace these almost like theater kid gestures, like, you know, they have Schumer going on and, like, trying to sometimes or Gavin Newsom, you know, trying to show that he can talk like Trump. And the problem with the Democratic Party is not that they're not performative enough or, or fighting enough in terms of, like, showing this. It's that they don't really, no one knows what they stand for. They don't really have any sort of passionately felt views. And the ones they do feel passionately about, they feel like, are too unpopular to really forefront. And so you have this kind of vapid kind of theatrical gesture of fighting, but there's just no substance behind it. And so there's no galvanizing force that it really is generating. And at some point they're going to capitulate.
- [07:08]
Megyn Kelly
All I can picture is like, the skinny kid on the playground up across from, like, the muscly guy going, like, make, make me, make me right. Like, you really don't want him to respond. You know, like, sometimes you actually need to be able to fight and not just be able to threaten that you're willing to fight. And I just feel like the Democrats are the skinny kid with no muscle. They've got no cards to play. They're going to get blamed for this shutdown. The Republicans were ready to just continue the funding levels at existing levels and said, let's just, let's go forward, you know, as we have been for at least the next seven weeks. And the Democrats said, no, we want you to take away these provisions that have been passed into law and continue supplementing Obamacare payments, which. And basically funding illegal health care. And because the big, beautiful bill cracks down on Medicaid funding for illegals. And I don't. I mean, I guess there is a real question about who's going to get blamed, but to me, it just seems like the Republicans were willing to continue funding the government and the Democrats weren't. So the public will blame the Democrats. Like, I. I'm not sure exactly how the Democrats win on this. And on top of all that, Trump is threatening to do more Doge cutting now that the government is shut down, which is his priority, which is his prerogative. He can do that. Which the Democrats hate, too. And they think like their old argument when we had Doge and Elon was the American people are gonna hold this against you. Guess what? They didn't. We just saw in the latest New York Times poll, Trump's ratings haven't slipped at all from four months ago when he was doing all the doja vacation. So I really just don't see the hand the Democrats have to play other than bending the knee to Ezra Klein.
- [08:56]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, the thing is, you know, in our elections, because 50% of the country just doesn't vote because they don't believe in the system or they don't believe it matters. Being able to galvanize your vase is actually an extremely important obligation of any party that wants to win, especially in a midterm year when there's no presidential election. And if you're faced with a situation, as the Democrats are, where huge amounts of your voters, your core voters, are really disillusioned with you based on their perception that you're not fighting Trump enough. And Trump actually himself this week said, you know what? The left and liberals, they're kind of dead. They're kind of pathetic. I was expecting much more of a fight from them. And they don't really fight anything. The perception that pretty much everyone has, in large part because it's true. They're led by these really old people who have been around for decades. They are trapped between the interests of Their donor base, their corporate donor base, and their voter base that has a much different set of ideas about. And they're very, very lost. And I don't know, I get like, you know, it's always a feature of our democracy that although a party is in the minority, they're still supposed to have a say. And it's just that the problem with the Democrats. It was. The problem with the Kamala Harris campaign is they don't have a Persona like, what do Democrats believe in? They're trying to center it around this idea that Republicans want to cut Medicaid, which a lot of the core Republican voters, like the white working class and even, like, multiracial working class voters in these swing states that voted for Trump will actually suffer from. It's not a terrible issue. It's not a bad issue. It's just that there's no charisma, there's no energy, there's no, like, vibrancy. And when they try and demonstrate it, it's so clearly from the script of a. Of a. Of a PR consultant that it just falls so flat and almost makes you feel sorry for them rather than intimidated by them. And that's their real problem.
- [10:45]
Megyn Kelly
They. I love your use of the term theater kids. No offense to theater kids, because, you know, I have a daughter who loves theater. But. But I get it. It, like, connotes a certain. Like, at my high school, we had groups. This is back in the 80s, of course, the more popular kids were called the Swelts. You had the jocks. They were cool, too. Then you had the Dirties, who were the people who hung out in the smoking section during free time and played Hacky Sack. And then you had the Creamies, who were the theater kids. It just connotes a certain kind of approach. And the creamies on Capitol Hill right now want us to believe they're super tough. But they're what we know they're not actually tough. We know it's. It is cosplaying. And that I think of, like, Gavin Newsom, who, like, he's not in Capitol Hill, but he's. He's like, their best imitation of a tough guy, I think. You know what I mean? Like, nobody believes Chuck Schumer's a tough guy. Hakeem Jeffries doesn't seem scary at all. Then you got Newsom, who's like, oh, yeah, I'm badass. And he's trying to do the Trump tweets with the all caps and do his best imitation of JD Or Trump. But you can tell it's Acting. It doesn't work. If I can tell, it's acting.
- [11:58]
Glenn Greenwald
Exactly. And to me, this. If you were to ask me what is the singular factor that explains Donald Trump's political dominance over our country over the last 10 years, they would have no difficulty answering. It's that Trump, for whatever faults he has, for whatever mistakes he makes, whatever things he says that you might find off putting, he is who he is. It's who he has always been. It's his personality since the time he emerged decades ago on the public scene. He's comfortable in his own skin because he's being himself. And that's something you cannot fake. That's something you can't manufacture. And I think, you know, honestly, if you look at the Democrats who have galvanized people's excitement for whatever you might think of them, people like Bernie Sanders or on mondame or even AOC, totally, they @ least have a kind of, like, conviction, a set of beliefs that they are willing.
- [12:51]
Megyn Kelly
It's authentic.
- [12:52]
Glenn Greenwald
And, yeah, it's authentic whatever else might be true about them. And the problem with the Democratic Party is, especially in the age, you know, since Bill Clinton's emergence, which is. Which was one of the successes of the Clinton machine, they merged with the elite centers of power in the United States. So if you want to rise in the Democratic Party ranks, you have to know how to speak to Ivy League graduates from Wall street and Silicon Valley and Hollywood. Those are the people who rise, like the Chuck Schumers, the Hakeem Jeffries, the Gavin Newsoms. These people rise because they're very good at raising massive amounts of money from the country's elite. That's where they're most comfortable. And they don't have this other side to them. They can't fake it. And when they try, it just makes things worse for them.
- [13:31]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so Trump, very effectively, I discussed this yesterday on the show, drops this video of Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer. It's AI altered with Hakeem Jeffries. A sombrero comes down on his head. A Mexican mustache appears on his face. And then they have Chuck Schumer in an AI voice saying, we have no voters left because of all of our woke trans bullshit. Okay, so Trump posts this on Monday night. It's got over 20 million views. I mean, way to call attention to a shutdown. And who you say is to blame. Like, very effective. It went so viral because it was so different from anything any president has ever done for all sorts of reasons. And then you had the left meltdown over it, calling more attention. So it was very effective, smart move by Trump. It was, you know, of course, his brand of humor, but it also was an effective political move, I think, as so much attention got called to it. Then last night, Trump doubled down by putting a new spin on it. And here that is in SOT 3.
- [14:39]
Glenn Greenwald
Retreat will get you nowhere. We are fighting to protect the health care of the American people in the face of unprecedented Republican assault.
- [14:50]
Megyn Kelly
And the hat comes down and the mustache comes on. But now there's a mariachi band behind all wearing sombreros, and they're all Donald Trump playing the guitar, whatever, behind him. It's very funny. And if Democrats were smart, they would laugh at themselves or roll their eyes at Trump and maybe come up with their own response. I'm sorry, but this is the funniest thing I've done with Trump. He's playing the trumpet, playing the guitar, doing all the instruments.
- [15:25]
Glenn Greenwald
Trump and his sombrero.
- [15:28]
Megyn Kelly
I find it very funny. But that they're not smart.
- [15:33]
Glenn Greenwald
Everybody finds it funny. That's the whole thing, you know? Like, I think one of the most clever things Trump did was, like, to this day, I laugh about this. When I think about this is when that whole thing with Elizabeth Warren emerged about how she faked being a Native American, he started calling her Pocahontas.
- [15:48]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
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Glenn Greenwald
Which, you know, it's just like, the perfect name to call somebody who's this, like, white lady who tried to be a Native American. And I remember even one time he had these, like, elders from some, like, Cherokee tribe in the Oval Office, where he was, like, honoring Native American Day or something. And he was like, to them, he was saying, and we have a woman who's in Congress. We call her Pocahontas. And every time he would do it, the Democrats and the media would be like, he's a racist. He's a racist. He's mocking Native Americans, when in reality, he was always mocking Elizabeth Warren for pretending to be Native American. He was never mocking Native Americans themselves. And the more angry they got, the funnier it became. This is so basic. Like, how do you not know this? You know, it's like, if you go on the Internet and somebody's mocking you, the worst thing you can do, the best thing you can do for them, is get up on your high horse and say, how dare you? Like, everybody knows this. This is so basic. And so. I don't know. They've been doing this for eight years. They, like, play right into Trump's hands so perfectly. And, you know, you can make an argument like, yeah, the President should be above, but that's no longer our politics. That's the politics that Trump broke. I don't think people like that in our politics, that everybody has to pretend to be one thing, but in reality is something else. And this is the kind of thing people laugh at over the water coolers, even if they know that they're not supposed to. And it is a huge, powerful weapon that Trump has, a Democrats still. You know, like, he's going to go around, be like, this is racist. This is bigotry. How dare. I mean, it's just. It's so. It makes it funnier, honestly.
- [17:14]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [17:14]
Glenn Greenwald
And that's why they double down on it.
- [17:16]
Megyn Kelly
No one's moved by that. And someone should tell that to Teresa Fernandez, Representative Dem from New Mexico. Here she is in five. That's right. And then what does that shameful man do after a meeting where you're supposed to be working out details, where you're supposed to be negotiating a deal, you post something that draws a sombrero and a mustache. Yes. That's the move. Correct. Oh, the horror. You're supposed to be working. I mean, truly, who responds to that school march? Harvey scolding Glenn.
- [17:55]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, yeah, you feel like you're in eighth grade and somebody is just like, you know, you did a little harmless joke, and now somebody standing over you saying, this is inappropriate. But I do want to say I think there's something a little bit deeper going on here, which is that, you know, one of the things that is odd about it is Hakeem Jeffries is actually not Latino.
- [18:11]
Megyn Kelly
He.
- [18:12]
Glenn Greenwald
He's. He's black. Right. And I remember that. That's the funny part about it. Right. It would be one thing if it were, like, actually a Latino person, and then people would be like, I don't know. That seems kind of racist. But the fact that he's not even Latino. And I remember this is one of the other funniest things I've ever seen was remember that time when Trump went before that Black association of Journalists to be interviewed in the height of the campaign, and he just threw that thing out there where he was like, oh, Kamala's black. I never really even knew she was black. And I remember talking to her. She's black now. Yeah. And then what happened was CNN went to, like, a black barbershop, which is where, like, CNN thinks all the real black people congregate. That's how they show their authenticity. They go to the black barbershop in Philadelphia, and there were like, these 12 black guys sitting around in the barbershop. And the CNN correspondent went in and said yesterday, Trump said, that Kamala is not really black. Do you think she's black? And of course, they were expecting her to say them all, to say, like, yeah, of course she's black. And they all kind of looked at each other, and one of them finally was like, I don't know, is she? And then a couple of them were like, I don't think so. This is a major. Yeah, this is a major split in the prop. This is a major problem with the Democratic Party is they're like, look, we have all these black people. We have Kamala Harris and Hakeem Jeffries. These are people who look like they just came out of boardrooms of, like, Aetna or, you know, like some kind of, like, you know, bureaucratic General Council meeting. These are not people who identify who seem like, to resonate with the kind of black voter that Trump has had success in. That, and I think that's part of it, too, is kind of like blurring. Blurring the lines of what Hakeem Jeffries really is. Because at the end of the day, he's really just like a swamp creature who most comfortable with DC Lobbyists and fundraisers and not with the people he wants to represent for, meeting for. That's how I always thought of Kamala Harris coming out, like, in her suit, like, being like, well, we've adopted some very important protocols for insurance claims, you know, and that's who the Democratic Party keeps putting forward. And Hakeem Jeffries is very much like that.
- [20:13]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Oh, my God, it's so funny. Oh, this whole thing is so funny. Okay, here's Hakeem Jeffries, fresh out of health care reform, reacting to Trump's AI video. Here it is up for Mr. President.
- [20:29]
Glenn Greenwald
The next time you have something to say about me, don't cop out through a racist and fake AI Video. When I'm back in the Oval Office. Say it to my face. Say it to my face.
- [20:52]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, again, it's the skinny kid on the playground. And by the way, you'd be better off doing that, Hakeem, without the whoo, yeah. And the little mild milquetoast white lady with the glasses behind you in the suit shaking her head mildly. Yes, yes. Go, Hakeem.
- [21:15]
Glenn Greenwald
Also, it took, like, two or three days for him to come up with that. Like, this video first emerged, you know, a couple days ago. Like, if that were really his visceral reaction like that, you know, I'm Going to go down to the Oval Office, let him say that to my face. Maybe that would be a little convincing. But this was something like that they should have done about that they script. Yeah, well, that's, but that's not who he is. And that's the problem. Right. Like, if he were that and he, he would have reacted that way immediately, and maybe that would have been a more effective. But this was something that happened after a couple of days of them, like, sitting in planning strategy meetings saying, like, let's have Hakeem get up to the microphone with, you know, Maxine Waters behind him making, like, noises and pretend that you're now not offended anymore, but ready to fight over it. It just, it just comes off as so inauthentic, really so pathetic. And I'm sure Trump's going to put a sombrero on his head when, like today, later today, when, when he, they show video of Hakim saying that.
- [22:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. And by the way, I just feel like Hakeem, the whole thing is empty because, of course Trump would say that to his face. Trump says whatever the hell he wants right to the face of whoever is sitting there right in front of. I mean, think of what he's been saying to world leaders just over the past couple of months. He just doesn't, doesn't care. Like the notion that Trump is too afraid of Hakeem Jeffries to mock him in person. Okay, try that on somebody else. But I actually think if I were advising the Democrats, because their fight is twofold, they do want, they want these Medicaid cuts because the Republicans crack down on waste, fraud and abuse in the big, beautiful bill of Medicaid. And they've argued all along, these aren't really cuts to Medicaid. These are kicking people off Medicaid who never should have been on it, who are taking advantage of a program that they don't belong on and that is meant for the truly needy. Like, able bodied, you know, young males would be one example. And the Democrats try to just say, oh, you cut health care for the poor, but they really are getting funding of Medicaid for illegals back on the table in this fight. And if I were a Democrat, I would say, you know what? F this guy, I'd say, I know none of us wants to pay for health care for illegals. I get that. But let me ask you this. If there's somebody who's here illegally and, you know, they have a terrible car accident and they're dying and they get brought to the hospital, should Medicaid pay the bill. I mean, could we in the rare circumstance foot the bill of somebody like that? By the way, I think there are already rules where they have to take you if you're dying in these, in these emergency room conditions. But, like, make the, make the case. If you actually are supporting this, which he is, make the damn case rather than just pretending that you're not doing it and hiding behind the say, to my face, he's a racist. We're fighting for health care. Like, empty generalizations.
- [24:15]
Glenn Greenwald
You know, you're so right. And to me, this is the crucial point. If you talk to Democrats, like in Congress or the kind of people who, you know, strategize for them, which I've had, which I have the unfortunate experience of doing with some, some amount of frequency, these, the things they will argue for in a not entirely unpersuasive way are things that they are afraid to say publicly because they think the country is against them. And I'll tell you something, like, when it comes to immigration, immigration has been a winning issue for Trump, like, at the highest level of generality, right? Like, people perceive there's way too many people flowing into our country in an uncontrolled way that our communities can't absorb. We don't have the money, that it's usually working class Americans who suffer the most. All of which is true. At the same time, Americans are very empathetic, and there are certain levels of cruelty that they don't. I don't think people are really comfortable with, like, seeing, you know, farm workers or hotel workers who have just like, lived a quiet life of law abiding, trying to make a better, like be treated in a gratuitously cruel way. So there is space even on immigration for Democrats to make the arguments they really actually believing that they want to make. And the problem is they're so petrified of their own shadow, they're still listening to. Do you think that Trump ever listens to, like, a Republican political strategist, like, telling him how to speak or. Never, Never. And even if they write speeches for him sometime in the, like, five minutes, he's super bored and he goes back to being Trump. The Democrats are too petrified to do that. And I do. Like, that's what leadership is. Anybody can follow polling. You know, anybody can follow polling. That's the easiest and most pathetic thing there is to do. Leadership is about when you, when you, like, touch people and like, move their emotions, whether it's anger or pride or compassion or, or whatever, resentment. These are all things that you have to be able to do in politics. But if there's no authenticity to you, you're closed off as a person. You can't connect to anybody else. You can't move anybody else. You can't convince people. And there is space for Democrats to argue on these issues, undoubtedly. And polls show that people do get uncomfortable seeing gratuitous cruelty, even if it's somebody who crossed the border illegally. If they think they're not here to commit crimes, they're here just to work and to better their family. But the Democrats are so lost, they're so confused, they can't stop analyzing themselves. And because of that, they're paralyzed.
- [26:34]
Megyn Kelly
You're shutting down the government for. For a reason. I know you want to tell us it's all about this one reason, but it's very clearly about this other reason involving via legals. So tell me why. Just try to persuade me then if you lose, if you, if you don't persuade me, you've been sent a message that you can then do something with. But why do we have to have these debates on these artificial astroturf terms that aren't the real thing we're supposed to be fighting about? This is a sot from Capitol Hill yesterday where a reporter gets up into Maxine Waters face. I'm making that sound more aggressive than it was. She was just asking her a legit question on this very issue. Now, Maxine Waters has been around for 200 years. She, she can answer a question. She realizes a microphone in your face is an opportunity. Does she take it? Here's how it went. Are Democrats demanding health care for illegal aliens?
- [27:28]
Glenn Greenwald
Democrats are demanding health care for everybody.
- [27:32]
Megyn Kelly
We want to save lives. We want to make sure that health.
- [27:37]
Glenn Greenwald
Care is available to those who would.
- [27:41]
Megyn Kelly
Die, but having the help of their government.
- [27:45]
Glenn Greenwald
You don't need to ask that question. You're just trying to get controversy here. You're not going to get it from me. We want to save health care for all people.
- [27:56]
Megyn Kelly
I. How are we supposed to help those who won't help themselves? Glenn, I don't. I got nothing.
- [28:03]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, and that's somebody who is in as safe a seat as you could possibly be. And. Right. Like, each party should want these kind of like bomb throwers, the ones who just go kind of far. And I know, like, you know, sometimes they're, you know, each side has them like the Democrats have Jasmine Crockett. I think one of the reasons they like her is because she does throw those bombs. And, and Republicans have had people like that who do that for a while, plays well on tv, et cetera. Maxine Waters is the ultimate case of somebody who could do that. She's like, she's gonna, even after she dies, I'm convinced she's gonna keep getting reelected and they're gonna like prop her up in that chair the way they did with Dianne Feinstein. And so, like, why is she of all people afraid to just say, like, yeah, we want health care for people who are in this country, who are contributing to our country, who are working, and we don't want them dying in our streets, you know, because we cruelly deny people life saving care. Like, why not make that argument instead of acting all offended that you've been asked it?
- [28:54]
Megyn Kelly
We do. We have the Kaitlan Collins, Mike Johnson soundbite, guys. Okay, because he went on speaker. Mike Johnson went on with Kaitlan Collins last night. I just want to play the exchange. Here it is. As you know, people who are here in the United States legally have never been eligible for the Obamacare, subsidies for Medicare, for Medicaid. So what exactly are you saying that they're trying to do when you talk about giving free health care?
- [29:19]
Glenn Greenwald
I'm so glad you asked. Okay, so when we passed the one.
- [29:22]
Megyn Kelly
Big beautiful bill, the working families tax.
- [29:23]
Glenn Greenwald
Cut, we had Medicaid reforms in the bill.
- [29:26]
Megyn Kelly
You and I talked about it on the air.
- [29:28]
Glenn Greenwald
What we did was to eliminate fraud, waste and abuse. There were a lot of people on the program who were enrolled in the program who were never eligible to be there. Medicaid is intended for eligible US Citizens, not illegal aliens, not also US Citizens who are able bodied workers, like young men. So we passed the law. The president signed it into law. Democrats voted against it, of course, and it's been wildly successful. The cbo, the Congressional Budget Office, which is the neutral arbiter of all these things, released a report a few weeks ago, earlier this month, and they said, you know what, the bill has had its intended purpose. Premiums are coming down. Listen. Because 2.3 million ineligible enrollees have been kicked off of Medicaid, which helps to save the program profit up and $185 billion has been saved already.
- [30:10]
Megyn Kelly
So basically, she's obstinate on it, like refusing to understand what he's saying. It's been explained by him. It's in the bill. I'll tell you the three specific sections that Democrats want to roll back entirely from the big beautiful bill, which I love the Republicans are now calling the Working Families Tax Cut. It's like the names on Capitol Hill.
- [30:31]
Glenn Greenwald
Right.
- [30:31]
Megyn Kelly
It's like somebody realized, oh, one big beautiful bill doesn't really telegraph anything that helps our side. Let's call it working families tax cut. The next bill will be called we'll help you live forever tax bill. Whatever. Like just shove any Dare you to vote against that. Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. Just choose the selection from the land of Eden. So here are the three specific sections that they want to roll back entirely as if they hadn't been enacted. And, and this would allow free health care to illegal aliens. 1. It's section 71109 alien Medicaid eligibility restricts Medicaid and other coverage charting starting in fiscal year 27 to US citizens to lawful permanent residents, to certain Cuban, Haitian entrants and others. Okay, but it, it says exceptions remain for emergency services and certain care for lawfully present children and pregnant women. That's the what I was getting to before. The law already requires you to take care of certain people like that even if they're illegal and they come into the emergency room. And it still does. Okay, Then there's section 71110 expansion fmap for emergency Medicaid reduces the federal Medicaid federal match rate for emergency services provided to illegal immigrants in states that expanded Medicaid. And then the Last 1 is 71301 permitting premium tax credit only for certain individuals. Restricts eligibility for premium tax credits under the Obamacare law to lawful permanent residents, Cuban and Haitian entrance and individuals lawfully present under certain agreements. They, they point out that Biden's administration circumvented this by granting legal status to groups like parolees and asylees. And basically what they did was they created an incentive system for hospitals to get reimbursed more. If it's an illegal, they can get reimbursed more. You get this premium tax credit if you treat an illegal and they reduce that saying no. Now you can only get this premium tax credit if the person you're treating is a US citizen or somebody here who's here lawfully. That's what they're fighting over. The Democrats want all of those repealed and the Republicans are like no, in any event, you're not going to hear any of that on mainstream media or on cnn. Certainly, though Mike Johnson certainly tried to explain it to her. Here's J.D. vance, by the way, taking a shot on Fox and Friends today and doing a good job of it.
- [32:46]
Glenn Greenwald
Sat 7 they say we're not actually trying to give health care benefits to illegal aliens. And here's why. It's not true. There are two Biden era programs that explicitly gave the taxpayer health care money to illegal aliens that we turned off when President Trump took over in January. Program number one is there's a lot of emergency health care at hospitals that are provided to illegal aliens that was funded by the federal government. We turned off that funding because, of course, we want American citizens to benefit from those hospital services not to be taxed, and then to have those hospital services go to illegal aliens. The second of which is the Biden administration gave mass parole to millions upon millions of illegal aliens, and then they simultaneously made those parolees eligible for health care benefits funded by taxpayers. In the one big beautiful bill, President Trump and congressional Republicans turned off that money to health care funding for illegal aliens. The Democrats want to turn it back on.
- [33:47]
Megyn Kelly
He's so effective. Glenn. There's. There is no Democrat counterpart to JD Vance right now.
- [33:55]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, I'm a little at a disadvantage because I'm not the expert in these health care debates and these legislative details. But, you know, I think the Democrats have kind of a conceptual argument, which is that one of the priorities of the Trump administration was to make sure that the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans for corporate America got cut even further, or at least the tax cuts remained. It got extended, and then at the same time, they're trying to pay for those tax cuts by throwing people off of Medicaid. And you're absolutely right. The argument of the Republicans is, no, we just want to make sure that there's no abuse going on with Medicaid. I think we can all agree that, you know, you leave it to, like, a bunch of regulators, some people who maybe should be on Medicaid or have the right to be on Medicaid, are going to get kicked off Medicaid. So you have a kind of, you could create a conceptual argument that's based on a political ideology. The problem, and this is the problem for Democrats, like, if you have the populist wing of their Democratic Party, because populism has worked for Republicans to come in and say exactly that, that might be an effective understanding for Americans. The problem is, is that the donor base of the Democratic Party does not allow them to speak in populist terms because the donor base of the Democratic Party wants those Trump tax cuts as much as the corporations on the Republican side. And that leaves them with these bureaucratic squabbles that are very difficult for people to understand and that ultimately do seem like they're arguing for more benefits for people who are in the country illegally. And that's the problem that Democrats have on top of what you said, like J.D. vance, I think he's an extremely effective political communicator. And I also don't see a counterpart, as you said. I mean, you saw what happened when Tim Waltz tried to go against him. And that was one of the biggest blowouts of a debate I've ever seen, the way that J.D. van's handled that. And he only gets better the more, you know, he's still a newly arrived person on the political scene, and he's only getting better. And I think that's a big problem for Democrats as well.
- [35:48]
Megyn Kelly
You know, what JD does that is so effective is he does not run from the danger. He stays right over the target. And he'll speak in very frank terms about it, which is very disconcerting for the other side. He doesn't telegraph fear at all by bridging away by giving, like a pat answer and then bridging to something more comfortable. He stays right over the target and completely exploits his own rationale and those of his side for why they're doing what they're doing. It's very powerful. It's very effective. It's why people over time do come to see him as a truth teller, because he'll take you on no matter what you ask him, even if you think he's vulnerable when you pitch the question. Here, here is. Oh, okay, yeah, here is Chuck Schumer. This is making the rounds. It was an unearthed by an ex account that goes by Western Lensman. Very, very good. And worth the follow. This is Chuck Schumer in 1996. Okay, about this problem of illegals.
- [36:42]
Glenn Greenwald
Listen here, stop 10 all over where we go, people say, well, why can't you stop illegal immigrants or others from coming here? And the number one answer we give our constituents is when they come here, they can get jobs, get benefits against the law because of fraud.
- [37:03]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, that's a problem which now we're attempting to fix. But the Republicans have held steady on it and the Dems have switched their tune. Okay. On the subject of JD And Gavin Newsom, so Hakeem Jeffries did not respond with an AI video of his own. He did not, like, jokingly show up with a little, like one of those. What's it called?
- [37:25]
Glenn Greenwald
The little.
- [37:26]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. I mean, honestly, yeah, if he showed up, like, wearing the Mexican garb in an actual sombrero, we would all have such a fun laugh. We would actually like him a lot better. No, Gavin Newsom drops an AI video and Instead of taking aim at Trump, he takes aim at JD Vance resurrecting a photo from JD I think in law school at a costume party or Halloween party. And here's what he offered in Sat 6. It's an AI video of JD Vance.
- [38:01]
Glenn Greenwald
In that clear something up.
- [38:03]
Megyn Kelly
Dancing.
- [38:03]
Glenn Greenwald
Yes. There's a photo of me in drag from a college party. And this is. That's normal AI Everyone experiments in college. Costumes, makeup, whatever. Totally normal. And. But what I don't understand is why people are so obsessed with this other thing. Couch intimacy. Like, really, that's the part you're hung up on? Out of everything that's bizarre to me. Look, couches are comfortable.
- [38:33]
Megyn Kelly
Do you have a couch?
- [38:34]
Glenn Greenwald
They're dependable. They support you when you're down. If you can't appreciate that kind of bond, maybe you're the one with issues. I feel so much better just being able to get this off my chest and give you piece of shit Internet bullies a piece of my mind. Now grow up and go get a job. Go follow Nostromo Core and Good Night, America.
- [39:02]
Megyn Kelly
And then it's got the fake JD Vance twerking. Your thoughts on that one?
- [39:08]
Glenn Greenwald
All right, first of all, I will confess, and maybe this is my own ignorance, and I'm confessing something I shouldn't be, but, you know, I obviously pay close attention to politics is my job. I actually never understood this couch issue with JD it was made.
- [39:22]
Megyn Kelly
It was made up out of whole cloth that he was, like, had sex with a couch, like, completely made up, never real. And the Democrats decided to run with it when he got named Trump's vp.
- [39:35]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, but. But, like, it's like that. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, even if it were made up, but still effective as a political tool, I could at least respect it for it. But I don't even like this. I've never heard anybody talking about people who enjoy intimate sexual intimacy with the couch before. So it's like, I know this comes from nowhere. It's not. It doesn't fall.
- [39:55]
Megyn Kelly
It was literally made up by a random Internet account who nobody ever heard of saying, oh, he wrote all about it in his book Also a Lie. And now, like, now Gavin Newsom thinks that people have a working knowledge of this, that it's real, and that he can use it to make fun of J.D.
- [40:10]
Glenn Greenwald
Right? And I guess that's what I'm saying. Like, if I don't have a working knowledge of it for as much time as I spend online, for as much Time as I spend paying attention to political discourse, as much time as I spend working on it, because it's my job. How many people beyond, like, the hardest core of the hardcore, like, resistance liberal base even understands this reference? It's also very draggy. It's, like, very slow. There's also this weird thing of, like, simultaneously trying to insist that being trans and experimenting with gender ideology is this wonderful, liberating thing, but then on the other hand, mocking J.D. vance for having done it. It's just also muddled. And this is what I think they need to find a way. There are, like, Democrats, there are liberals and people on the left who are real people who actually speak in a real way, who understand things, who have a set of opinions that they're not afraid to express. Those aren't the people who rise within Democratic Party ranks, though. And they're stuck with these, like, very state establishment figures trying to be something that they're not. And it's cringy to watch.
- [41:08]
Megyn Kelly
The AI sucked, too. Like, the ones making JD Vance say the things he didn't say. It sucked. It's something I could have put together, which definitely tells you it's bad. All right, before we leave the subject, I have got to show you the best piece of the story. I can't believe it's taken me this long. So last night, Deb, what. What channel was it that ran? That was at NBC. Okay. It's GMA on abc. Good Morning America this morning tried to cover. Look at this. They covered the Trump AI video for the listening audience. On screen left, it's a screen grab of the, you know, Chuck Schumer standing next to Hakeem Jeffries wearing the sombrero and the fake Mexican mustache. And then on the right, they're interviewing Speaker Johnson. So that's why the screen grab shows him. But over the. The Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, they've added the words AI generated image because they. This is what they think of their audience. Glenn. They need to be told that Hakeem Jeffries did not grow a huge Mexican mustache overnight and show up in a sombrero next to Chuck Schumer.
- [42:19]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, also, you know what? Make it part of this whole, like, self serious that's so pathetic is I saw a few MSNBC clips and they were, of course, they wanted to talk about the outrageous racism involved in this video. But they kept making a point of saying, like, look, we are a news organization. We will not show you this video. This video is fake. Since we're a news organization, we Cannot show you fake and fabric. It's like, yes, you can. If like a politician is saying something you think is false, you can absolutely show the footage of the politician saying that it's false and then debunk it. But they were like, you know, remember when they used to like show Trump speeches and then Rachel Maddow would cut in and she. Okay, enough, enough. We're a news organization. We refuse to. And it's like you think because you're MSNBC and you're going to cut off Trump's speech or you know, it's just, it's like the self seriousness that nobody it's, it is like, it's very school mommy behavior. And the more Trump, the more they fall into it.
- [43:15]
Megyn Kelly
It's a generated image. Oh, good to know. I didn't realize he didn't grow that mustache and decide to show up dressed.
- [43:24]
Glenn Greenwald
As like a Mexican like Cha Cha dancer or something at the White House. Thank you for letting me know that. That's not what happens.
- [43:31]
Megyn Kelly
You're right though. I saw all the like the. Oh, we're not, we're not going to show that video. We're not showing that video.
- [43:36]
Glenn Greenwald
No, no, we're very serious. We're very serious. We're news organization the same years telling them that like there was a PP tape of Donald Trump that Vladimir Putin was using the. No, we're too much of a serious news organization.
- [43:49]
Megyn Kelly
No, we would never. And by the way, if they, they were the ones who claimed they thought all those Biden stumbling videos were fake, that they were deep fakes, but they showed those. Why don't. I don't understand the double standard. I guess if it's racist and fake you can't show it, but if it's just fake you can. I'm not sure what they're, how their rules work, but I love that, that ABC1 on the subject of fake news. I wanted to get to this at some point today. Might as well do it today. Did you see the thing yesterday that went round the Internet about two seconds that I am going to CBS News. Did you happen to see this, Glenn?
- [44:23]
Glenn Greenwald
Megan, the reason, if you want to set it up, go ahead. But I have a very specific comment to make about this because it really amazed me since I was on your show two weeks ago and we talked about exactly this. Go ahead and like set that up if you want. I did see it.
- [44:35]
Megyn Kelly
I get off the air yesterday and I see, oh, my team sent it to me saying this is on Media, which is a website that covers media Right now. And it was like, headline, is Megyn Kelly seen a CBS News? That I might be going to CBS News, and it's got my own pal Bernie Goldberg, who I love and who is great and worked at cbs, but with bad info, talking to another guy named John Daly, who I also know a little. And they're breaking the news that newsflash. I was seen at CBS for a, quote, screen test and that I'm going to CBS News as part of, like, their attempt to become more fair and balanced over there now that they're under new law ownership. And by the way, this hit without me even having been asked about it. Like, I got off the air, and there it was like, what's this? You know, typical journalistic practice would require that you call the target of your reporting to say, is this true? So then I find out later the guy who wrote it up for Media ITE sent a note to my producer while we were live on the air saying, is this true? And when he didn't receive a response, back within an hour, posted it. That's not responsible journalism. Sorry, that does not cover you. As if there's the only way that covers you. And all journalists know this is if there's some rush to get it to air. It's like, you got to get this report on right away.
- [45:56]
Glenn Greenwald
Time urgency. Yeah, nothing, Obviously, that's when you get a pass.
- [46:01]
Megyn Kelly
So, no, there was no urgency on Megyn Kelly's going to cbs. Literally, not one word of it is. Is fake. I mean, is real. Literally, not one word of it is real. Not one word. Not going to cbs. Didn't go to cbs. Didn't have a screen test to cbs. Am not talking to cbs. Don't want to go to cbs. Would never leave this job for cbs. Have zero desire to go back to CBS or any mainstream television broadcast or cable network. Believe me, if I did, I would have gone. I've had plenty of offers. The absurdity of this, it went all the way so fast. And I do wonder why people were so excited to publish this after. It was just a speculative report by Bernie, who has since retracted it, apologized, and offered now an addendum on his own podcast saying he was wrong.
- [46:50]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, and it was also like, it was so detailed, too. It was like that you had gone and done a screen test, as though, like, CBS would need you to, like, let's see what Megyn Kelly looks like in front of a camera. Nobody knows, like, how she might seem. But the thing, personally, that. That made me so amazed by it was that I was on your show, I don't know, two, three weeks ago, and one of the topics we discussed was Bari Weiss and the reports that she might go to CBS News or seems on her way to CBS News to assume some kind of editorial position. And you asked me about it, and I had my own views relating to the Ellison family and why they were buying up these properties. But your view on it, which you and I ended up discussing and agreeing on, was like, why would you be an independent media, which is the place where everything is growing, everything is vibrant. It's the future of media. You're your own boss. You can do everything you want. You operate without constraints. Why would you give that up? Especially if you have a large audience, you're having a successful independent media outfit and go and submit to all the suffocating constraints that comes from working within a gigantic media conglomerate, only one unit of which is, Is the media. And you are basically saying that as a friend of Barry's, you don't understand why she's doing it. You personally would never do it. So the fact that I just listened to you three weeks ago in a very passionate way, say you think it's crazy to give up a successful career in independent media where all the impact is, where all the growth is, to go and work for a dying corporate news outlet, to then, you know, open my computer and see Megyn Kelly is doing a screen set, a screen test at CBS News, because she wants to go there. You know, I just instantly knew it was false because you just told me three weeks ago how crazy you thought it was. Why would I say that really quickly? Right, right. But you said it because I know that's what you think. I know that's what you think, because that's how I feel, too. I would in a zillion years, never return, never to anything like corporate media, especially given that it's so obviously dying.
- [48:41]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [48:41]
Glenn Greenwald
But, you know, I just want to quickly say, like, you know, a lot of people distrust the media for good reasons. A lot of people understand that the media often spreads false, false claims. But I remember, like, the first time I was really at the center of a major international media story was when I did the Snowden reporting. And that's when, you know, it's one thing to, like, read in the newspaper things that you think are false, but so often I would read things in, you know, the most established procedures, journals about things I did, things I said, things that happened in the middle that I was involved in, and they were said in the most authoritative tone. And I knew firsthand they were false. And it was like constant one after the next. And there's nothing like having the media say false things about you that makes you realize like the true depth and pervasiveness of how often they just fabricate and mislead and deceive.
- [49:27]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, completely. And I think that the reason that they ran with it and it went viral so quickly is because this organization, Mediaite and others like it want it to be true. They want some sort of affirmation from people in our lane that this is the wrong lane, that these other more traditional media entities are the right lane and the better lane. And my, like, returning to broadcast news would be an acknowledgement that this was just like the ugly red headed stepchild over here as opposed to the prom queen which is allegedly CBS News, when it's exactly the opposite.
- [50:07]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, like we're all just waiting for the day that we can get back into corporate media. And we're all pretending not to like corporate media, but the reality is we're just praying and hoping for the day when like we can go work. Imagine just going like entering the CBS corporate building and knowing that you have all these editorial bosses in comparison to what you're doing now. And it would be one thing if like we were reaching small numbers of people. But the way you reach the largest numbers of people now is by doing independent media. It's not like that world. You, you endure the constraints of it because you get to have this major impact again. Ask anybody under 50 years old when the last time is that they watch CBS News and they'll barely know what you're talking about. For my kids, TV doesn't even exist. You know, my kids don't even know what TV is.
- [50:47]
Megyn Kelly
I said this in, in a quote, the Daily Mail called me and I was like, who, who is more, who has more influence, Anderson Cooper or Joe Rogan? I mean like that's really all you have to ask yourself. And you don't have to go as big as Joe Rogan. He's the biggest of them all. Like truly, let's, let's keep it apples to apples. Who has more influence and relevance, Aaron Burnett or yours truly? I mean, it's like, don't be ridiculous, right? It's, I'm sorry, with all due respect to her, it's not. And so it's just these sort of dinosaurs who are in cover that industry who still think that, you know, it's, it's the sun and we all revolve around it and think that we're in just this lane that's just sort of odd or fringy. And that's great because those people are still going to be left behind while we're, you know, far ahead actually making news and changing lives, like changing the whole presidential cycle. In any event, it's very fun to think about. And I'm here to tell you there is zero chance I'm going to CBS News. And even Abby was like, did you go to a building near cbs? Why are they writing that? I'm like, I literally just went in a SiriusXM. That's that's totally understandable. Anybody who saw me going into there would know why I was going in there. But you know how these things are. What is it? The lie makes its way around the world before the truth even gets his pants on. Fact. We'll be right back. Glenn's with us for the whole show. Don't go away. Have you heard about biohacking? It's what some top athletes, CEOs, even doctors are using to take control of their health. Most people today are stuck in the cycle of fatigue, weight gain and brain fog. But biohacking changes that, giving your body the exact tools it needs to heal, recover and perform at its peak. That's why I want to tell you about all family pharmacy. They have your everyday prescriptions and essentials, but they also make it easy to get powerful biohacking treatments you won't find at regular chain pharmacies. They've got NAD plus a cellular booster for energy repair and healthy aging, a peptide that supports fat loss, muscle recovery and better sleep and more. Every order is reviewed by a licensed doctor. The prescription is included and then they ship it straight to your door. Don't wait for the system to take care of you. Considering taking control of your health today is essential. Go to allfamilypharmacy.com Megan use the code MEGAN10 to save 10 on your order as well. Again, that's allfamilypharmacy.com MEGAN. Use the code MEGAN10 if you want to save 10% on your order. Today, Russian forces are closing churches and persecuting Christians.
- [53:18]
Glenn Greenwald
All across Russian occupied Ukraine.
- [53:20]
Megyn Kelly
Soldiers are shutting down places of worship.
- [53:23]
Glenn Greenwald
Many evangelical churches absolutely destroyed. This is good versus evil. A Faith under Siege, the explosive new documentary about Russia's war on Christianity. The soldiers came to church. They stopped worship service. They arrested me. They church my home. They destroyed many, many hundred church. As seen on Newsmax and cbn. A faith under Siege. The true story of an evil beyond comprehension. Russia abducted more than 19,000 Ukrainian children. You must swear to Putin and Russia empire. If you don't, you will be tortured as a child, torturing and murdering Christians, kidnapping and trafficking children. The horrifying true story of Putin's war. A faith under siege. Stream it now free on YouTube.
- [54:13]
Megyn Kelly
Can a home security system really call itself security if it only responds once somebody's already inside your home? With SimpleLife, it's different. AI powered cameras detect threats while they are still outside your home and alert real security agents immediately. These agents take action before anyone breaks in. They confront the intruder, let them know they're being watched. They call the police and if needed, they sound a siren or trigger a spotlight. That's real security. Imagine these guys on your lawn like, ah, oh my God. The spotlight, the siren and somebody yelling at them over a speaker. It's great. Simply saves monitoring agents have your back talking to intruders even when you're not at home. There are no long term contracts or hidden fees. You can cancel anytime with a 60 day money back guarantee. You can try at risk. Enjoy the peace of mind it provides whether you are home or away. The cameras, the app and the rapid response make it feel dependable and Smart. Right now, save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at SimpliSafe.com Megan simply spelled S I M P L I safe.com Megan, there's no safe like Simplisafe. We absolutely have to keep talking. It's more important now than ever. To cower, to hide, to go silent is not the answer. And all I can tell you is there is no fucking way I am canceling one stop on this tour. Not one stop. I'm going, I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show. We're gonna make it safe for me. We're gonna make it safe for my team and my guests and you. We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real. To honor him. I really now more than ever would love to see you all face to face. God, I would love to see you face to face. I need to see you face to face. I am doing this tour and I would love for you to join me. MeganKelly.com for the tickets. Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. Back with me now, Glenn Greenwald, who will be joining me for our first ever in person interview. That's so crazy. On the Megyn Kelly Live tour. We're going on tour and we're gonna go meet all of you face to face and I would love to see you. We're going to try to create an opportunity for Q A where we can interact directly. If you want to buy a behind the scenes VIP meet and greet with me and Glenn and Emily Jashinski, who will be there too, you can do that. Just go to Megan Kelly dot com. We're all getting together down in San Antonio. Yes, I can't wait to get down to San Antonio, Texas again. It's going to be Glenn, EJ, Emily Jashinsky, and yours truly on October 24th. That's just three weeks away. We're kicking things off in Texas. That's our first weekend of the tour. So please, please come out and see us. For so many reasons, I feel like it's kind of important that we all do this. So go to Megan Kelly.com to buy your tickets. All 10 of our dates are there. Find out more info. And already some of them are selling out. So don't, don't wait too long. I'd love for the audience of this show to be up front and first on the ticket sales. Find all the info@megan kelly.com. okay, Glenn, let's get back to it. So there's a lot. There's a lot still. I guess I'll. I'll start with Joy Reid, who's out there saying Joy Reid type crazy stuff, but it's becoming like a theme amongst lunatics on the left. She's saying it. Don Lemon said that something similar the other day. Maybe we'll start with him and then we'll play what Joy Reid just said. But they need a serious reality check. Here he is.
- [58:03]
Glenn Greenwald
So my question this morning is white men. Are you okay? Are you okay? You're sending troops, National Guard to cities. You keep talking about, oh, my gosh, Chicago and black on black crime. Because this country keeps waking up to bodies in the pews, blood on the floor every single time. The face behind the trigger looks nearly the same. These shooters again and again and again and again look just like their base. We hear about anything but the culture of grievance and violence that the right has been feeding for decades. Something is cracked deep inside when so many of you believe the answer to fear, to loss, to change, is violence. Are you listening to me? I hope I'm saying it loud enough for the people in the back.
- [59:15]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so it's white men who he says are the problem in America. That'll be news to his husband, who happens to be a white man. And Don Lemon thinks that the white community needs to look at itself because we're producing the killers. We're a violent community. Just FYI, the National Institute of Justice in 2022 did an analysis of the latest 172 mass shootings showed that they were 52% white, 20.9% black, 8.1% Latino, and 6.4% Asian. Okay, so whites made up the majority, 52%. And blacks had 20% of the mass shootings, even though there are only 6% of the population black men. On top of that, Don Lemon, conveniently, it excludes from his analysis what we're seeing when it comes to gang violence. And by the way, so do all of the stats. No stat that puts together who's committing the violence in America counts gang violence. And I say this almost eerily, Glenn, because it's a point that Charlie Kirk had literally just made before they shot him. That was a point he was raising about who's committing the mass shootings that we. We don't have all the accurate data because they exclude gang violence, and moments later, his life was taken. It's not just Don Lemon. Here's Joy Reid on a show called Bet Talks. It's 30 minutes long. The entire thing has music under it, which is a very strange thing. Nothing telegraphs. This is not a news show more than putting music under all 30 minutes of your interview. Here's that in Sat 25, somebody says black on black crime. We need to correct them immediately, especially if we're in media. Yeah, no, that's just called crime. If a person commits a crime, it's just crime. Because when a white person hurts another white person, well, then that's white on white crime, and maybe we need to start pointing it out. There is a pathology that's happening in this country that is not happening among black folks. This is a crisis in their community. But you don't see black commentators saying, we need you all to sit down and start to look at your culture. You need to think about what's happening in your culture. But when you have a crime that a black person commits, we get lectured as to whether we need to look at hip hop. We need to think about whether our children are being raised poorly by single moms. We need to ask that same question of them. They're the majority. They commit the majority of crimes. They commit the majority of mass shootings, rapes and sexual assaults. And assaults against children. We should start asking the same question in reverse. Okay, so none of that was true. Whites do not commit the majority of crime as a population, as a percentage of crime. She's going by sheer numbers because whites are still the majority in America. But blacks commit over 60% of the violent crime in America despite the fact that they're only 13% of the population. And by the way, it's not really black women who are doing it. It's mostly black men who are. Cut that in half. 6.5% of the population commit over 60% of the violent crime in America. That's what's true. There are all sorts of reasons for it that the left won't be honest about. But yeah, fatherless homes is a big piece of it, and gang violence is a big piece of it. 91% of black homicide victims, 91% were killed by other blacks. That's the truth. The vast, vast majority of black homicide victims are killed by other Black people. Heather McDonald's, who's like an encyclopedia when it comes to stats on this, points out that juvenile, black juveniles are now shot at 100 times the rate of white juveniles. Blacks between the ages of 10 and 24 die of gun homicide at nearly 25 times the rate of whites at that age. Shooters are overwhelmingly not the police and not whites, but other Blacks. In 2021, she goes on, 87% of all non lethal interracial violent crimes were Black on white. 87%. 480,000 and change incidents with a black offender and a white victim. 69,000 and change incidents with a white offender and a black victim. Or seven times as many black on white as white on black. She says, in other words, whites have more to fear from blacks than blacks do from whites. A fact contrary to the race hustle narrative. There is no deep problem within the white community that we need to examine because of the massive numbers of whites killing other whites. And just like all of this is a rewriting of facts because they think it's part of, like, I don't know, a DEI initiative to try to change the narrative. Everybody living in America understands that black people are not inherently violent, that violence in America is not the fault of black people. But if you're going to make an issue out of race when it comes to crime, then we are going to have to talk about the stats. And they don't reflect well on, in particular black men.
- [64:16]
Glenn Greenwald
You know, there's so much going on there, Megan. And just by the way, you know, Joy Reid said, none of us ever try and tell them that they're the ones who have the, the race problem. And just like 10 seconds earlier, we listened to Don Lemon saying, hey, white men, you're the ones with the. The problem of violence. You're the ones who are going around killing everybody. And I, like, I know you kind of briefly mentioned the fact that Don Lemon is married to a white man, but I just want to focus in on that for a second because, like, you know, I was long associated with the left for the first, like, decade or a little more of my journalism. Not entirely, but primarily. And one of the things that began to alienate me most was this constant need to talk about people based on which group they belong to and what that means about in terms of their group membership and what rights and what prerogatives and what things you're allowed to say about some groups and not allowed to say about others. And this constant, like, divvying of people up and trying to divide them constantly and pit them against one another instead of treating people as individuals. And, like, part of the reason why it bothered me so much is because I have an interracial family. Like, I don't want to have to think about the world in terms of, like, oh, white people over here and black people over here. Like, this is the thing I thought that we were trying to fight against and trying to overcome. And then suddenly, like, the left starts embracing everything through this identity lens, where now everything is a fight between groups. Like, no, you're more violent. You're more violent, you're more violent. And I have to say, like, I can't help but notice that a lot of times, like, the people who are the worst race hustlers, like, the ones who are constantly trying to be most incendiary with racial discourse are people like Don Lamont, who's married to a white person, or people like Nicole Hannah Jones or like Wesley Lowry, who are, you know, with. Have a white parent who aren't, like. Who aren't 100% black. A lot of it is, like, an identity crisis. And so they're constantly trying to overcompensate by saying, I'm a black person. Our problems are white people. And as you say, like, everybody who lives in the American experience understands. And of course, there are large sectors of the United States that are predominantly black where there is a massive crime problem. And a lot of these white liberals who want to deny that would never go walking in those neighborhoods at night precisely because they understand the truth. Truth, even if they want to deny it. Now, what does that mean? Maybe there's a socioeconomic element which I think is True, that predominates. And a lot of black neighborhoods are economically deprived and therefore more criminal. Whatever. I think what's so toxic about left wing discourse as we've just heard is that overwhelmingly they're the ones for whatever reason. Like, there's different reasons. Psychological benefits, political benefits. I think a lot of it is just like anger and rage and resentment who are constantly trying to insist, insist that we shouldn't be judged as individuals, that not only are we understandable and defined by our group membership, but our rights and privileges and obligations are also determined by whatever group we belong to. And it goes across the line until you're finally, like, dividing everybody along these, like, micro levels. And nothing is injecting more division in our country than that kind of discourse. It makes me sick. And I think if you look at who does it, it's often very revealing in terms of what their lives are or who they are, about why it is that they're doing it.
- [67:16]
Megyn Kelly
Mm. It's. It's really disturbing, too, because if you're gonna play that game and you really want to get down to the identities of those who commit these shootings, I look forward to his trans analysis. I look forward to him taking a hard look at the number of shootings, mass shootings, we've had over the past. Let's just do the last two years. Who had some sort of trans association. Right. I mean, it's his side, the leftist FBI under Joe Biden, who tried to hide that stuff from us. Like, what was going on with the shooter in Nashville, Tennessee, at that school. And, you know, he wants to talk about, like, they look like maga. Oh, really? Did the Ascension School shooter look like maga? It was a trans person who saw a demon when they looked into the mirror. That was obviously a deranged lunatic who'd fallen, unfortunately, into this bizarre ideology of the trans community and was actually living to regret it, according to his journals. But, like, there's not going to be an honest analysis. The. This is somebody who's just interested in dividing us by race, as you said. You know, reminded me I'm. I'm preparing this memo that I'm going to deliver on the air. I'm taking a hard look at the criticisms of Charlie, which I know to be untrue, and I'm basically just finding the evidence for what he was saying, and it's all there. But one of the things that jumped out at me, I love Shelby Steele. He's like a truly brilliant guy who is really honest about how we got here to this Identity politics place where some people do what you just said. And he's really honest about the civil rights era and how his criticism of it is that it elevated blacks based on race. It like, singled them out and gave them sort of victimhood status, this sort of recognized victimhood status based on race as opposed to recognizing them based on humanity. That's what he said. And it was the beginning, as he, as he sees it, of dividing each other that way by race and so on, and that we've never recovered from it. We leaned into these identity politics and never recovered.
- [69:11]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, look, there's no denying the fact that if you look at history, I mean, of course there were times when black people were actually oppressed. Like, that was true victimhood. I mean, there's no denying that. There was no denying the fact that women at one point didn't have the right to vote, et cetera, et cetera. Within my lifetime, you know, just like as a person who grew up gay, like, my life has radically changed from something that, like, you know, homosexuality was something that could never be mentioned. It was considered, you know, like such a, an evil sin that was implanted into the minds of every gay kid in a way that was damaging through the fact that now we have complete and total equality for, for gay people up into and including same sex marriage. And so then the question becomes like, once you overcome these problems, do you want to stew in them forever? Do you want to insist that the trajectory of your life is one that's shaped and defined by your victimhood? Or do you want to insist that, okay, now that we've made this progress, now I'm emancipated from that. I don't need to think about that any longer. I don't need to focus on that any longer. That's no longer the part of the story of my life. And ultimately, I think so much about who we are as individuals is based upon whether we live in the present and whether we want to be emboldened as opposed to living in the past, and whether we want this victimhood label on our forehead forever, mostly to justify our own failures or to justify our, our bad behaviors or our anger and race and hatred and resentments. And, you know, just the fact that Don Lemon has to talk about the Trump movement as being white men when there's huge numbers of white men who are like the hardest core, most radical leftist in antifa and other places, obviously there are huge numbers of non white people who are in the Trump movement, very prominent in the Trump movement, who actually support Trump, Trump's deployment of troops into American cities. I'm not one of the people who support that, but there are, you know, to still talk about it that way. It's, it's such a, it's such a deceitful and distortive lens to pretend that the Trump movement is all white men and all white men are Trump supporters, that you just know there's other more nefarious things going on there.
- [71:12]
Megyn Kelly
Mm. Well, it reminds me of, you know, a young man asking a question about who commits the vast majority of these mass shootings at the Turning Point event that I did at Virginia Tech last week. And he tried to say that it's. I'm trying to remember exactly what he said, but he said basically 70% were right wing right wingers. And all the stats have disproven that. You know, I mean, this is left wing propaganda. There was just a piece out in the Atlantic like that day, talking about how recently it's been overwhelmingly left wing violence. And actually we took a deep dive. There was a, a study by the center for Strategic and International Studies, and even they concluded that it's left wing violence. But, you know, getting there, they excluded even, even, you know, resulting in that, in that conclusion, they excluded the attacks on Tesla, the Josh Shapiro firebombing. People just categorize that as right wing violence because he's a Democrat. But the guy who firebombed his house was not a right winger. He was shouting free Palestine. That's not really a right wing thing. And the Israel attacks, like the, the murder of those two young people coming out of the Israeli embassy, that wasn't a right winger. That's once again a free Palestine. That's, that is political violence of a different kind. It's anti Semitic violence, but I mean, it's, it's. How is that right wing? So that gets excluded from these stats and then people walk away, I guess, feeling better about themselves. And the right wing examples in this study includes, for example, Melissa Hortman, the Speaker of the House in Minnesota, who again, the shooter there said that he killed her because Tim Walsh told him to. The guy was obviously a psycho. And I do think there is a problem in any of these numbers of including the psychos. You know, I mean, I. Even if that guy who killed Melissa Hortman had been saying he was told by Donald Trump to kill Melissa Hortman, I don't think we should count him, and I don't think we should count this as left wing violence because he says Tim Waltz Told him to cat like, that's a crazy lunatic. That's what we're dealing with there. That's different from the Charlie Kirk assassination. That is different from the Donald Trump assassination. As far as we know, though, we know precious little about that shooter, where it is a purely political assassination. The Luigi Mangioni case where he killed Brian Thompson, you know, the, the head of United Health Care, that's, that's a political assassination. That's not lunacy any more than any murder is lunacy. And I do think, I think it's, it is important to draw that distinction, to pull out, as I said to that kid that night, the crazies, and then get really honest about what's left wing and right wing.
- [73:49]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, I do think that mental illness plays a more significant role than we genuinely attribute to the motives of shooters. There are definitely shooters who are perfectly calculated. Who I think Luigi Mangione is one, whether that he's left wing, you know, in terms of his politics, I think that can be debated. And we have had right wing massacres. You know, like the guy who goes into the supermarket buffalo and guns down black people because he thinks that no non white citizens are real citizens and is, you know, against the Great Replacement Theory or Dylann Roof and the guy who goes to the El Paso Walmart and kills a bunch of Latino people in an anti immigration, under an immigration banner. We've had like people who cite Islamic motives for killing. A lot of them turn out to be mentally ill. I do think that political factions in general can often produce violence at various points in time. Some are more likely to produce violence probably when they're out of power. I just, if I could though, Megan, I just want to say, like when I first encountered this whole debate, it was in the 1990s, there was this spate of murders of abortion Doctors. And Bill O'Reilly was on the air all the time saying abortion is murder. And some of the abortion doctors that got, that got murdered were ones that he had specifically profiled multiple times. And there was this Tiller to blame. Bill O'Reilly, yeah. And there were a couple others, like, but George Tiller being the primary one. And I was always like, you can't hold people responsible because somebody goes out and murders in the name of the cause or the beliefs that person is peacefully espousing. Otherwise we're all vulnerable to that possibility. I remember they tried to blame the Buffalo Massacre on Tucker Carlson, saying Tucker is an advocate of the Great Replacement Theory. That guy, you know, cited the Great Replacement Theory Even though they were completely different theories. The guy never even mentioned Tucker. No one even knew if he knew who Tucker was. But I'm a little bit wary of this attempt to blame people who advocate ideas peacefully, even if they're radical ideas, for the acts of, you know, either psychopaths or crazy people who go out and murder in the name of that cause, because we're all vulnerable to that. On the other hand, I do think certain political factions can start to embrace political violence in a way that is dangerous and it is important to pay attention to that as well. I just think these conversations are difficult because I think there's mostly an element of mental illness in somebody who can go and put a bullet in the neck of a 31 year old man while he's holding a microphone and speaking, even if there's a political motive to it as well.
- [76:14]
Megyn Kelly
I think I agree with 90% of what you just said. I generally agree with everything you just said. But I think things have changed, Glenn. I just think, you know, there is a growing acceptance among some certain faction of the left wing to political violence. And you see that in the polling, you know, it was 34% of, of liberals, like leftists, think that it's okay to use political violence to hurt somebody who you disagree with. On college campuses they did a survey and like the numbers were overwhelming that like the vast majority think it's okay to, to shout down somebody who has opposing political views on your campus, like so that they cannot be heard, to use a megaphone over them so that they can't hurt to actually physically block that person's supporters from showing up on campus. And then still a minority, but over one third believe that political violence was acceptable in some circumstances. So it's like, I think it's growing, this acceptance. And the way that people cheered Luigi and the way that people cheered the Charlie Kirk killer, there's like a growing inhumanity. I don't know what's causing it, to be honest with you. I really don't. But I'm very concerned about it. And so I do think it's no accident that we hear messaging non stop that ICE is fascist. And then you see that on bullet casings in an ICE shooting, a shooting at ICE officers and that Charlie was a fascist and that he was anti trans. And then you see that on the bullets that were the bullet casings that were used to kill him and in that murder, like, I just think it would be dangerous to disavow that connection. There is a connection between this messaging which is Ubiquitous about certain targets, and then those people winding up on the wrong end of a bullet.
- [77:54]
Glenn Greenwald
You're absolutely right that in left wing culture there emerged more strongly than ever over the last decade this idea that the solution to people with whom you disagree is to prevent them from being heard one way or the other. Remember that was when Ben Shapiro would go on campus from Ivanopoulos. And those controversies like don't let them speak. That was the instinct. And by the way, I know that you're being targeted a lot with that as well. It's like, hey, if there are these people with different views, don't put them on your show. Don't let them speak. Even though I realize it's different. But among the left there has been this kind of like, sense, although I think it's growing on the right too, that, like, people who disagree with you aren't just people who disagree with you. They're bad, evil people with bad, evil ideas. And whatever you have to do, and increasingly that means violence to silence them is something that is justified or even obligatory to do. The only concern I have is that we all use strong political rhetoric. You know, you call somebody a communist, you call somebody a tyrant, you call somebody deeply corrupt. You're somebody who has been very outspoken about the dangers and threats of, you know, men pretending to be women and the threat they pose to women in various spaces. And so if somebody can, you know, a listener of the Megyn Kelly show went out and murdered, you know, a trans person and said, look, I've been listening to Megyn Kelly tell me that this, these people are dangerous. So I wanted to stop them by putting a bullet in their head before they could endanger women. I don't think you should be personally responsible for that. And that's the only note of caution I'm trying to sound here, is that we all use incendiary political rhetoric. Sometimes it's important. But there's a huge gap between that and telling people to go use violence in the name of the rhetoric that we're spouting.
- [79:34]
Megyn Kelly
Very few people are doing that. Telling people to go use violence. Right. Like some may bless, some may think, but. But I do think, like the celebration of it is in fact, telling somebody to do more of it like that is a permission slip because more and more of these people think they're gonna be greeted as a hero if they take out this political target. And they're not wrong in some cases, like we did see a fair amount of that after my poor friend Charlie was murdered. I mean, it's Just that it was one of the most disturbing pieces of. I can't say it was the most disturbing, but it was definitely right up there. And for me, I just, like, I feel like we have to wrestle with the reality of 2025America, where these messages do seem to be getting in the heads of these killers. And look, while sometimes I have fiery rants on this show about that. This topic or that, I think overall my. My rhetoric towards, for example, the trans community is usually careful about their activists versus them. I've gotten angrier in recent years, though, as they've been so aggressive. Innovate, invading women's spaces and so threatening to women who stand up to them. I mean, just so threatening. And then more data's come out about how the overwhelming, you know, majority within the trans community, men who claim they're women, are autogynophiles who are actually in the midst of a sexual fetish. And that's deeply disturbing to me. I can't. I can't participate in that. I don't want my daughter participating in that. All those things need to be outed. But I see, or I totally agree with your point. Like, I. I certainly wouldn't take responsibility for anybody committing an act of violence. And can you really take somebody's random fascist chant and say, that's what caused the murder of Charlie, or that's what. Or ICE is behaving like fascists and say that's what caused, you know, ICE agents to get shot at? No. But when the message is ubiquitous, the way it has been on the left toward these targets, I think you're a lot closer. And I think there's, like, a real cause to look at them while Charlie's dead and in the ground instead of home with his children and wife to look at them, to say, tone it down, stop. Because in his case, too, it was overwhelmingly uniform criticism by an entire group of him over and over and over again. And I know that because I lived it. And then I saw them do it to him posthumously. They're still at it, fighting in an effort to control his legacy. And it's really, really important to leftists like Nikole, Hannah Jones, and Ta Nehisi Coates to make sure we know Charlie was a racist bigot. Mm.
- [82:03]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah. Look, I mean, watching how many people celebrated Charlie Crook's death was horrific on the one hand, but I have to say, totally unsurprising to me on the other. I've seen this sentiment growing in so many different ways. And I guess I would agree at the end of the day that it does seem to be more common on the left. I think, in part, again, that because the left feels like they have no power, and often people resort to violence when they. When they don't. But. But I also just want to throw in one more thing in here, which I think is important, that I do actually think social media has contributed to this a lot. I do, too, because, you know, we. It's so, you know, right now, you and I are communicating like human beings, even though we're communicating, you know, through the medium of. Of a screen. But, you know, half of our lives, yours and mine, were lived without the Internet. If you grow up and all you have is the Internet, and you spend most of your time on the Internet, and your. Most of your communication, your relationship with other human beings is through the Internet, it's so easy to just see them as these, like, digitalized targets, these digitalized, you know, screenshots. And if you're feeding on this, like, rhetoric of hatred and demonization all day long, I can easily see how the sensitive human life starts to become very corroded. And the idea that human life is actually something that. That deserves to be valorized and protected and preserved can start to become very weakened as well. And I also think that is a part of it. I'm not trying to get away from the more political explanation. I just think that this is one of the multiple ways that we have to grapple with the fact that, you know, each new generation is spending more and more of their time interacting with the world and other human beings through digital experiences rather than the connectivity with human beings that we were built to have over thousands of years. Mm.
- [83:49]
Megyn Kelly
There's like a withdrawal from real life where your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller, and then actual humans get dehumanized through the process that you're discussing. And on top of that, I don't know, you know, like, Alex Berenson's been raising this. I don't think he's totally wrong. Like, pot has played a role in a couple of these latest shootings. You know, the pot today is not your grandfather's pot, your granddaddy, or your daddy's pot like that. There can be an influence of drugs that can be a little mind melding. The video games are extremely violent, though they don't cause people to kill. There's millions of kids playing video games right now who will never consider violence. But I just think there can be a toxic mix in the case of some individuals who are unsteady to begin with. That gets them from law abiding to they're facing the death penalty because they pulled the trigger in a horrific way. And I'm not exactly sure what, what to do to stop it. We can't get rid of social media, we're not going to get rid of violent video games, we're not going to get rid of pot. You know, this kid maybe came from a loving family. This young man who killed Charlie. I don't know. Social media images can be misleading. People say, oh no, they seem like loving parents because we see pictures of them camping and the mom has nice posts about her son. We don't know anything. We have no idea. I mean, look at what Gabby Batitos posts about her relationship with Brian Landry. You would have thought that they had, you know, an incredibly beautiful, loving romance. He strangled her to death within weeks of those. So we just, we don't know anything.
- [85:18]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean I, I do think this is a deeply rooted cultural problem. You know, if you look throughout thousands of years of history, the way we've had like, you know, we're social animals, we need that like physical one on one connection with other human beings. We need to gather in places physically. You know, there used to be churches and union halls and, you know, all sorts of ways, you know, in villages and small communities. We've lost all of that. We're increasingly isolated. Covid made it so much worse. And then you take away like any kind of spirituality to people and put them solely in a material world in like this environment of nihilism where they don't believe in anything, they're not connected to anything, they see no future for themselves. I don't think it's surprising that this is producing mass sickness. And you know, all the data in western democracy show depression and anxiety and addiction and suicide and suicidal ideation. Like all these are at very alarming and increasing rates. And I think it comes from this like spiritual malady that precisely because it is so complex, it is very difficult to, to figure out how to resolve. But I also think it's important not to bracket that out because I think in a lot of ways it's at the root of so much and what.
- [86:29]
Megyn Kelly
You'Re talking about, about like not seeing the per. These people as real and talking about the fact that we mentioned, because you and I are going to see each other on the tour for the first time in person, which is crazy that we haven't, we haven't done an interview in person. I mean, we've been talking to each other for years. And it. There was. You know how like, sometimes just the one comment you see online bothers you and it could be like a total minority comment, but. And normally I don't pay any mind to these, but this one did bother me. Somebody was like, how can you say you're a good friend of Charlie's when you also openly admitted when I was on with Tucker the other week that I never had dinner with Charlie. Like, I didn't go out to lunch with Charlie. And I would love to speak to that. Like, you and I have never seen each other in person. I consider you a dear friend. I have actual friends in my life who I see socially, who I have not explored so many issues with. The way you and I talk, whose views on the world and life and love and culture and politics and all of it I have no idea about in the way I. I know yours. And like, actual friendships can be born in. In doing what we are doing right here at, like, really meaningful relationships. God forbid anything were ever to happen to you, I'd be totally devastated. And, like, I don't understand why people don't get that. You know, I did see Charlie in person many times and we talked behind the scenes and we did get to know each other very, very well on camera and off. But I never had social time with him in that way, like over a meal. And I think in part because Charlie didn't make any bones about the fact that he kind of had the. Whose rule was that? It was Mike Pence. The Mike Pence rule of not spending one on one time alone with a woman not named Erica Kirk. Which is not a bad policy, by the way. It's not a bad policy. But in any event, I don't know, I've been thinking a lot about it, about the people who come on the show regularly, who I really love, who I am going to see for the first time on this tour. It's meaningful, Glenn, in a way that I can't quite describe, but it is, you know, totally.
- [88:19]
Glenn Greenwald
And like, I have to say, Megan, I couldn't agree with that more. I feel exactly the same way. And I will say, like, you know, I know you get criticism for having me on or for having Tucker on or for having whoever on. Obviously, you know, people say to me, like, oh, you claim that you think what's going on in Gaza is genocide, and you're constantly talking to Megyn Kelly and complimenting her, and she's supportive of Israel, which is ironic that you're getting accused for not when you are actually An Israel supporter. And, you know, one of the things that I see this in terms of Charlie, too. Like, I didn't know Charlie well, but, like, he was always extremely generous with me. Like, very complimentary, just, like, very friendly, even though we were worlds apart in so many obvious ways. And one of the things I think can happen, too, like, in terms of online, like, presentation, is that you can. It's so easy to pick the worst of people or the parts that make them seem the worst and put it together and make it seem like these are horrible people. Like, if you're in public life enough, anyone can make you look like a horrible person based on things you've said that are real, that you regret, making things that you said totally out of context. And so when people say to me, like, how can you talk to Megyn Kelly? She supports these things you think are horrible. Like, my. My answer is because I know Megyn Kelly. Like, I think she's a very good person. Even though we have very strong disagreements that, you know, that we're able to go on and debate often vehemently, and it doesn't affect our relationship with one another. And I think that that is what so much of what we're missing. That. That's so much of what we're missing is the idea of humanity. You know, like, just the fact that other than, like, psychopaths and sociopaths and people who are totally, like, ill and alienated, most of us have a common humanity, that we want the same things, we have the same values, we crave the same things. And if you focus on that common humanity, as opposed to the minute somebody has a difference of opinion than I do on an important political issue, I consider them my enemy. I just think that makes the world, like, a much better place, not only, like, socially, but for each individual as well. And, yeah, I do think it comes from exploring values. You know, like, you get to know somebody from having these conversations long enough, and those are really important ways that. That you can bridge the gap between why somebody thinks this and why you think that. And, you know, that's part of what I saw in Charlie, too. Like, the. The Charlie that I knew personally was so gravely different than the Charlie that they're attempting to depict that it really makes you understand how easy it is to lose sight of people's core humanity. And it's often done on purpose as well.
- [90:50]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, this is why I'm putting together this. This little rebuttal of what's being done to him, because I did know him. We talked about a Lot of the controversies that would be around him many times on this show. I knew who he was, and I refuse to let his legacy be totally bastardized the way it's starting to be on the left as they're starting to push back against turning points, ongoing strength, as, you know, more and more student groups sign up to join it. Last check was over 122,000, which is incredible because they only had 2,000 on the day Charlie was killed. 2,000 between high school and college. Now over 122,000 have applied. And I think they're feeling the threat of his growing legacy. And they. They don't like it. And I don't know that. Not, not staying on the left, right front, but staying on, like, the assassin versus normal human front. It's no accident to me that the most recent acts of violence have. Have included two attacks on churches. The one in which the guy actually saw himself as a demon in the mirror. Target practice against the face of Jesus. I do. I just feel like there's something special spiritual underfoot right now, something spiritually wrong. And that's something else that Charlie gave to us in his passing, which is like a renewed commitment to faith, a reminder that its absence entirely, almost from the public square is not a good thing. It doesn't lead the society any place good. And that's also being fought by some sort of a force. You know, you can call it left or right. I think it's more good and evil. You know, it's more God versus devil. And, like, it's an existential battle that we actually have to pay attention to? I do think that there are evil forces out there. We have to recognize them when they stand up and shoot children in a church while describing themselves as the devil. Why? Who are we to say it's not true? Who are we to say there's no evil force among us that's driving these people to do these acts? And that's, to me, is yet another reason why it's a great time to get renewed with your faith, to get back in touch with whatever it is. Could be Judaism, could be Christianity, could be whatever. Anyway, we don't have it solved, but.
- [92:53]
Glenn Greenwald
Just something beyond yourself. Like something beyond yourself. Something beyond the material world and beyond yourself. I think ultimately that's the key. Like connecting to something greater.
- [93:02]
Megyn Kelly
It could be hiking a mountain, you know, nature.
- [93:07]
Glenn Greenwald
Nature is. Yeah, exactly.
- [93:09]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. You take some time at the top of that and you think about this world and how it exists other than in your, you know, immediate radius, or do a cold Plunge in a lake, you know, do something. Watch a sunset, get up early, watch a sunrise. Any of this stuff, it, it dwarfs you and your own individual humanity, which is a good thing. It reminds you how small you are in this world. You don't always need to be reminded of how big you are. You're small, you are but a cog in the wheel. And this thing is going to go on long after you maybe spend some time thinking about that, about like who else out there might be suffering, how you can help them. They always say, like charitable works. Doing something for others, no matter how much you have or don't have, is actually a direct route to happiness. Like just a, just a bit here and there. Exercise is another way where you can improve the amount of serotonin in your brain and your feelings day to day. That make you feel just a little bit more generous towards your fellow man. They look like small things, but they're not. All right, I gotta take a break. We're gonna come back and we'll finish on a very fun note as we talk about Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert together last night. Did you watch it? I know you didn't, but I'll have the highlights for you. Let's get serious about what you're cooking with at home. You might not know this, but ultra processed vegetable oils like canola, they're industrial byproducts once considered unfit for human consumption. Big food companies push these seed oils as healthy, sidelining the natural animal fats our families thrived on for generations. That's why I want to tell you about golden age fats. Their 100% American made grass fed beef tallow brings back that wholesome tradition. This is the stuff that RFKJ fries his turkey in at Thanksgiving. You ever wonder like, where does one get beef tallow? I'm gonna tell you. This stuff makes fried chicken, steaks, eggs or roasted veggies taste phenomenal. Think McDonald's fries from the 1990s. It's packed with vitamins, minerals and healthy fatty acids. You'll feel light, energized, no sluggishness like with seed oils. It's pure. No additives, no preservatives. Just Midwest crafted tallow from grass fed cows ready to go back to basics. Give golden age beef tallow a try. Go to goldenagefats.com goldenagefats.com MK and use that code MK to get 25 off your first order. Why would you pay full price? You don't have to. That's golden age fats.com MK and use that code MK when you check out to get 25% off your first order. Enjoy. If you are stressed about back taxes, maybe you missed that April deadline or your books are a mess. Don't wait. The IRS is cracking down. Penalties add up fast. 5% per month, up to 25% just for not filing. But there is help. Tax Network USA can take the burden off your shoulders and stop the spiral before it gets worse. They have helped thousands of Americans. Whether you're an employee, a small business owner, or haven't filed in years. Messy books, it's not a problem. They've seen it all. Tax Network USA has direct access to powerful IRS programs and expert negotiators on your side. You'll get a free consultation and if you qualify, they may even be able to reduce or eliminate what you owe. More importantly, they will help protect you from wage garnishments or bank levies. So don't wait for the next irs letter. Call 800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan to speak to a real expert at Tax Network USA. Take the pressure off. Let Tax Network USA handle your tax issues. Russian forces are closing churches and persecuting.
- [96:50]
Glenn Greenwald
Christians all across Russian occupied Ukraine. Soldiers are shutting down places of worship. Many evangelical churches absolutely destroyed. This is good versus Evil. A Faith Under Siege, the explosive new documentary about Russia's war on Christianity. The soldiers came to church. They stopped worship service. They arrested me. They church my home. They destroyed many, many hundreds. Church as seen on Newsmax and cbn. A Faith Under Siege. The true story of an evil beyond comprehension. Russia abducted more than 19,000 Ukrainian children. You must swear to Putin and Russia empire. If you don't, you will be tortured as a child, torturing and murdering Christians, kidnapping and trafficking children. The horrifying true story of Putin's War. A Faith Under Siege. Stream it now free on your YouTube. Sometimes an identity threat is a ring of professional hackers. And sometimes it's an overworked accountant who forgot to encrypt their connection while sending bank details. I need a coffee. And you need Lifelock because your info is in endless places. It only takes one mistake to expose you to identity theft. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it, guaranteed. Or your money back.
- [98:11]
Megyn Kelly
Back.
- [98:12]
Glenn Greenwald
Save up to 40% your first year@lifelock.com special offer terms apply.
- [98:19]
Megyn Kelly
We absolutely have to keep talking. It's more important now than ever.
- [98:24]
Glenn Greenwald
This fall, Megan Kelly is taking her show live to cities nationwide to Go.
- [98:29]
Megyn Kelly
Silent is not the answer. I'm going, I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show.
- [98:37]
Glenn Greenwald
Show.
- [98:37]
Megyn Kelly
We're going to make it safe for me. We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you and do something really important which is say what's true and what's real. And I would love for you to join me. Megan Kelly.com for the tickets. You can stream the Megan Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.
- [99:06]
Glenn Greenwald
Go to SiriusXM.com show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free. Offer details apply. You started as a radio, you know, disc jockey, as you said, when you were, you know, spinning platters and making with a banter.
- [99:30]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [99:30]
Glenn Greenwald
Did you ever think the President of the United States would be celebrating your unemployment? I mean, that son of a bitch, you know, is really unbelievable. Mr. Son of a bitch. I mean, I mean, Mr. Son of a Bitch. His royal. Yes. No, I never imagined that we'd ever have a president like this. And I hope we don't ever have another president like this again. I mean, I never imagined, I never even imagined there would ever be a situation in which the president of our country was celebrating hundreds of Americans losing their jobs. Somebody who took pleasure in that. That, to me is the absolute opposite of what a leader of this country is supposed to be. Hear, hear.
- [100:19]
Megyn Kelly
You literally argued that people who didn't get vaccinated shouldn't be treated in hospital beds and should be left to die if they have a f off. Good gracious. I never imagined we have a leader who would celebrate someone losing his job. Oh, the horrible sin. That of course is because you tried to blame Charlie Kirk's assassination on maga, which was a lie for which you've never apologized and which you've never acknowledged, including last night, Glenn. They did not talk about Jimmy Kimmel's original sin that led to his five day suspension and to the president expressing some mild joy at it.
- [100:57]
Glenn Greenwald
You know, I think it's sometimes it's hard to express how insulated these people are. I mean, I think they think that they are like political geniuses. You know, the commentary they're offering is really scathing and cutting, when in reality it's just the most banal and vapid anti Trump MSNBC hysteria. There's nothing interesting about it, there's nothing radical about it, there's nothing substantive to it. And I think that they think that because they live in this culture in Hollywood where everybody constantly affirms the same view, there's almost nobody who deviates from it or questions it, that they're speaking this kind of ultimate truth. And they think their success, relatively speaking, in like network late night TV and the amount of money that they make and the notoriety they've gained means that they must have something really unique to say and insightful to say. And they're constantly reinforcing that amongst each other, like speaking as though they're not just martyrs but political revolutionaries. And it's really pathetic to watch.
- [102:03]
Megyn Kelly
He actually wants us to feel sorry for him. Like this multimillionaire with this megaphone on broadcast television, despite his terrible ratings, by the way, I speak of both of them in that commentary out there, like we're the real victims. Meanwhile, he's a bully. He uses that platform to demonize a group of people just maga, right, which includes tons millions of working class Americans just going about their day, trying to make the bills, you know, and not have to worry about them from paycheck to paycheck, which is what they do without ever getting a vacation. But he uses his platform to smear them as creating the Charlie Kirk assassin. Doesn't even have the balls to come out there and say, I was wrong to do that. I was factually wrong and morally wrong and to apologize. And now turns around with the help of his fellow multimillionaire, just Trump hating maga, hating guy, and plays the victim. It's absurd. It's really a twisted display.
- [103:02]
Glenn Greenwald
It makes it really, you know, it really makes me sick. And, you know, I'll tell you what's worse about it is they have this certain set of beliefs, like, let's take immigration. So if you have untrammeled immigration into the United States, there are a lot of people who are affected by it. The people who have to live among unassimilated immigrants, people who might have increased crime, who have competition for jobs because they're willing to work for lower wages. And these are mostly like working class and poor people who have the obligation to endure and deal with and confront the effects on their lives and on their neighborhoods. Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert, they're insulated from every single consequence of the policies they so self righteously insist everybody else embrace. And there's no awareness of that. That's the thing that makes me the angriest. Like they really think that they're these bastions of political wisdom and even like moral turpitude when their lives are completely twisted and distorted. And also like as you say, it would be one thing if they were making all this money because everybody wanted to watch them. Like Johnny Carson, you know, everybody in the United States watched Johnny Carson, like wanted to watch Johnny Carson. I remember that.
- [104:13]
Megyn Kelly
That's capitalism.
- [104:15]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah. And it's like, okay, he earned it. These people are like, they won some kind of twisted weird lottery where nobody watches them and yet at the same time they make 15 and 20 million dollars a year and enjoy all the fruits of that that they've completely unearned. These are the least self aware people that exist on the planet.
- [104:35]
Megyn Kelly
And if you're Meghan Markle.
- [104:38]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, she's like part of this. I mean she's part. I mean she came from Hollywood, right. And like to her the whole royal family thing was, was part of Hollywood. And I'm going to picture Maureen Callahan who I know we is a lot that we share because this is what is so great about her commentary, like a very cultural commentary. Is she like pierces the, the bubble in which these people who are really sick in which they live and somebody who comes by liberalism or like leftism, honestly, I'll engage them. There's parts I agree with them. I understand the human impulse. These people are just empty vassals. These are the worst people there are.
- [105:14]
Megyn Kelly
And speaking of all that, let me give you the latest sound bite from Barack Obama about his marriage to Michelle. Oh, sorry, reversing that. We want the kids to talk about.
- [105:27]
Glenn Greenwald
Right, right.
- [105:28]
Megyn Kelly
But not on a day to day basis. So now that we're empty nesters, it's like, well, what are we gonna talk about? So we're together all day and we, we do this thing where it's like I'll see him. And it's like, what you been doing? It's like, oh, don't tell me until dinner because we're, we gotta have something to talk about at dinner. Are you sitting there from. In a place that you know what matters to you in that moment? And are you curious about your partner's edge or where they're at? Like what are you thinking about? Do you really go there? And then do you really say.
- [106:04]
Glenn Greenwald
Because how many times do somebody asks what are you thinking about?
- [106:08]
Megyn Kelly
And you're like, well, let me make.
- [106:09]
Glenn Greenwald
Up a thing because I don't want.
- [106:11]
Megyn Kelly
To actually say what I was thinking about, which was, like, the way you're chewing makes me want to smack you upside. That's why I got an edge.
- [106:21]
Glenn Greenwald
That would be an edge, and that would be really interesting.
- [106:24]
Megyn Kelly
You could, like, open something up there. Why you're chewing annoy me so much.
- [106:28]
Glenn Greenwald
Right.
- [106:29]
Megyn Kelly
She cannot stand him, Glenn.
- [106:33]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, you know, Meg, I. The only time I ever see clips of Michelle Obama is when you force me to see them. And I'm so happy that because it is. I, like, watch that with my mouth agape. Like, everything else we've discussed makes sense to me. The level of contempt and hatred that she harbors for him. And not only does she harbor for him, but apparently feels like a strong need to let everybody know she has. Like, it's not enough for her to just silently hate him. She wants to, like, publicly talk. I mean, I think we discussed the last time I was here that MSNBC article about that woman saying how terrible marriage was because, like, her these terrible smells, and eventually you come to hate the person. And we were like, that's not the marriage that I am familiar with. That sounds like hell. And that's what Michelle Obama is describing Barack Obama as being. They have nothing to talk about unless they save it until dinner. He smacks his gum. She's, like, stewing all day like this. I mean, this is a. This is real contempt and hatred in the marriage. Like, yes, she's.
- [107:29]
Megyn Kelly
It was a couple's therapist, first of all. She had on a couple's therapist, which is very interesting. Her selection of guests. And Barack wasn't there. And she talks about him as though it. She says it like, we're all going to relate to, like, sitting there at the dinner table with daggers in your eyes towards your husband or your mate. Like, he's disgusting. I have only to hold myself together so I don't say it out loud. Meanwhile, he's probably sitting across from her thinking, I had no idea she was totally bald on the left side of her head. What happened to the hair in that. In that lightning bolt that's missing? I'm sorry, but if you have that issue with. A lot of women do, then you should cover it up. You should not. You should not be shot from the left. You should maybe hide it with. Okay, sorry, I just took a little, like, jaunt off to the side. But these two can't stand each other. That's the bottom line. We diagnosed it early. And once again, Glenn, you, Maureen and I were right.
- [108:21]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah. I mean, like, The Meghan Markle Show. I become an addict of. And I blame you and Maureen Callahan completely. I've been avoiding the Michelle Obama thing just because it. It's like. It's just watching somebody so full of. You would think she was, like, the most marginalized, like, screwed, discriminated against, like, impoverished, abused person on the planet. I don't know how somebody like that not only gets so full of hatred, but hatred toward the person that you chose to marry and who is responsible for all the blessings you have in the world. It's. I've never seen that before.
- [108:56]
Megyn Kelly
I don't know, but I feel like someone needs to perform a rescue of Barack Obama, like, the next time he gets on camera. I'm telling you right now, Barack, blink twice like that if you're okay. Just twice like that. Squeeze your eyes together, and then we'll know not to rescue you. If you don't do that, someone's coming in with the flowered van to grab you because this man needs some sort of an intervention. Glenn, thank you. Great, great conversation as always.
- [109:18]
Glenn Greenwald
Always great to see you, Megan.
- [109:20]
Megyn Kelly
All right, and don't forget, Everybody go to MeganKelly.com to get tickets for our tour. You can meet me and Glenn in person. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.
- [109:43]
Glenn Greenwald
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- [110:10]
Megyn Kelly
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