Dems Urge Military to Ignore Orders, and Couric's Charlie Kirk Smear, with Buck Sexton, Andrew Kolvet, and Blake Neff | Ep. 1197

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show — Episode 1197

Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Megyn Kelly
Guests: Buck Sexton, Andrew Kolvet, Blake Neff

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Megyn Kelly Show explores several pressing political and cultural issues: Democrats’ messaging to the military regarding “illegal orders,” the political controversy around the release of Jeffrey Epstein’s case files, the character and media handling of JFK’s grandson Jack Schlossberg, and the fallout from political violence and media responsibility following Charlie Kirk’s assassination. The episode features Buck Sexton and, later, Andrew Kolvet and Blake Neff from Turning Point USA.

Kelly and her guests dissect current political narratives, media behavior, and the state of public discourse, often using pointed language and critique.

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Major Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Democrats Urging Military to “Refuse Illegal Orders” (02:50–16:04)

• Background:
  Democratic Senators Elissa Slotkin and Mark Kelly release a video message to military and intelligence personnel, reminding them to refuse “illegal orders.” Panelists see this as coded messaging aimed at undermining the Trump Administration and laying groundwork for future legal and political attacks.

• Buck Sexton's Analysis:

  • Frames the message as “stage 4 Trump Derangement Syndrome” and likens it to hashtag-resistance rhetoric from early in Trump’s first term.
  • Questions the lack of clarification on what constitutes an “illegal order,” suggesting the message is intentionally vague as a political swipe.
  • Predicts Democrats could use this groundwork to later mount hearings or “war crimes tribunals” regarding strikes on narco-terrorists, bringing up Obama’s precedent with drone strikes on American citizens.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “If there’s illegal orders, tell us what they are.” — Buck Sexton (05:53)
  • “It’s meant to be kind of an underhanded swipe at the administration.” — Buck Sexton (05:56)
  • “Barack Obama droned American citizens without trial abroad, including a 16 year old... So what are we really talking about here?” — Buck Sexton (08:17)

• Megan Kelly's Commentary:

  • Emphasizes the severity of the fentanyl crisis to argue for support of strong action against drug cartels.
  • Critiques the effectiveness and clarity of the Democrats’ message.

2. Slotkin’s Political Persona Scrutinized (12:22–15:45)

• Kelly and Buck discuss Rep. Elissa Slotkin, criticizing her moderation claims and style, highlighting a contentious confirmation hearing and her repeated focus on the hypothetical of Trump issuing illegal orders.

3. Release of Epstein Files & Political Spin (16:13–33:14)

• Topic:
  Senate passes a bill forcing DOJ release of Jeffrey Epstein files after Trump makes a 180-degree reversal in his opposition.

• Discussion:

  • Buck sees Trump’s reversal as a pragmatic response to political pressure from his base and a desire for transparency.
  • Kelly asserts the media’s obsession with tying Trump to Epstein is unfounded and distorts the true scandal, referencing the actual content in witness statements.
  • Brief consideration of exceptions that could allow classified info to be withheld, but general agreement there’s no “smoking gun” against Trump.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “This was one of the rare times where Trump threw the pressure. You cannot bend Trump if you are anti Trump... It is a rare occasion when Trump voters can say, you know, effectively, Mr. President, we need you to do this.” — Buck Sexton (22:52)
  • “The story’s not about Trump. It’s about Jeffrey Epstein and his disgusting pals...” — Megyn Kelly (20:21)

4. Democratic Ties to Epstein & the Media's Double Standard (24:18–33:14)

• Kelly discusses Rep. Stacey Plaskett’s friendly contact with Epstein post-scandal while cross-examining Michael Cohen, noting Democrats shield their own while using race as a defensive shield.

• Buck lists multiple highly-connected Democrats and celebrities long associated with Epstein, highlighting “media hypocrisy.”

• Extended discussion about the mystery of Epstein’s fortune and the questionable relationships top Democrats maintained with him post-conviction.

• Quote:

  • “If you’re sitting down at lunch with somebody and they say, ‘I did a couple of years for tax evasion,’ do you finish the lunch?... It’s like if you sat down with somebody and they said, ‘I committed a violent sex crime or underage sex crime.’ Do you finish lunch? No.” — Buck Sexton (30:13)

5. Joy Reid Defends Women’s Spaces (57:39–59:23)

• Megyn praises MSNBC’s Joy Reid for stating support for single-sex locker rooms after a female gym-goer objected to a trans woman’s presence.
• Panel agrees it's “a good sign” when even ideological opponents defend basic rights and common sense.
• Andrew Kolvet: “I’m a big fan, Megan, of not having a totally insane opposition party.”

6. Jack Schlossberg, JFK’s Grandson, Under Scrutiny (61:36–68:10)

• Schlossberg’s “bizarre” social media behavior, edgy trolling, and attacks on his own family (including RFK Jr.) are discussed as examples of generational decline.

• Kelly and guests note double standards in media treatment compared to conservative politicians.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “He is not one of them [exemplary families]. … for the left, legacy is about the Rose Garden and Air Force One color scheme.” — Andrew Kolvet (68:05, 71:33)

7. Katie Couric’s Interview on Charlie Kirk’s Death (72:06–78:55)

• Kelly expresses outrage at Couric’s repeated pressure on John Fetterman to condemn Charlie Kirk’s rhetoric after Kirk’s assassination.
• Panel says this reflects a media tendency to blame conservative speech for violence.
• Kolvet: “She’s suggesting that Charlie Kirk had this coming...”

8. Media Reaction to Political Violence and Public Discourse (81:47–89:23)

• Taylor Lorenz is cited for expressing “joy” about the UnitedHealthcare CEO's murder, which the panel sees as emblematic of a growing left-wing celebration of political violence.

• The segment argues leftist media and Twitter personalities normalize, justify, or even cheer acts of cruelty or violence against opponents.

• Quote:

  • “There is nothing more toxic and more damaging than telling people, you can be cruel, you can do evil things, and actually, it’s actively a good thing.” — Blake Neff (83:11)

9. Internal Conservative Split on Israel (94:36–101:20)

• Discussed with Kolvet and Neff: posthumous speculation about how Charlie Kirk would navigate growing fault-lines on Israel among young conservatives.
• Consensus: Kirk would advocate for open debate and prioritize American interests while rejecting antisemitism.
• Andrew: “We don’t want to say, ‘Hey, you can be a part of America First if you feel a certain way about another country.’”

10. Turning Point USA Growth & Hostility on Campuses (101:20–107:24)

• After Charlie Kirk’s assassination, Turning Point saw a surge in new chapter inquiries, with 50 chapters starting daily and ~6000 chapters nationwide.
• Discussion of hostility faced by Turning Point students and personnel, with examples of college faculty calling them “Nazis.”
• Neff: “It is an ideology that embraces your worst personal temptations and says indulge them, hate other people… and tells you that is righteous.”

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• [05:53] Buck Sexton: “If there's illegal orders, tell us what they are.”
• [09:34] Megyn Kelly: "We have lost more people to fentanyl in this country, young people, than we lost in 911 and the post years... the human toll on this fentanyl crisis is beyond measure."
• [16:13] Megyn Kelly: "Mark Levin was calling me a Nazi two weeks ago. That term is grossly overused."
• [22:52] Buck Sexton: “This was one of the rare times where Trump threw the pressure ... It is a rare occasion when Trump voters can say, ‘Mr. President, we need you to do this.’”
• [30:13] Buck Sexton: "If you sat down with somebody and they said, 'I committed a violent sex crime or underage sex crime.' Do you finish the lunch? No."
• [57:39] Joy Reid (clip): “If I saw a penis in the ladies locker room, I would freak out too... I would probably go to management and say, ‘Wait a minute. Why is there somebody – a naked man in this room?’”
• [68:05] Andrew Kolvet: “The way he's treated Bobby Kennedy Jr. has been completely... disqualifying. I genuinely cannot stand a person that would throw his own family member under the bus like that.”
• [78:03] Andrew Kolvet: “She's doing the meme – she's suggesting that Charlie Kirk had this coming... and that something that he said justified the shooter's actions. I find it appalling.”
• [83:11] Blake Neff: “There is nothing more toxic and more damaging than telling people, you can be cruel, you can do evil things, and actually, it's not even not a bad thing, it's actively a good thing.”
• [99:00] Andrew Kolvet: “Charlie was very much, I'm an American. I should be allowed to criticize my own government. I should be allowed to criticize other governments, even if that government is Israel.”

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Segment Timestamps

• Intro & Show News: 00:35–02:48
• Democratic Military Messaging: 02:50–16:04
• Slotkin, War Orders, and PR: 12:22–15:45
• Epstein Files/Trump Shift: 16:13–33:14
• Democratic Epstein Associates: 24:18–33:14
• Joy Reid on Locker Rooms: 57:39–59:23
• Jack Schlossberg Critique: 61:36–68:10
• Couric/Fetterman/Charlie Kirk & Media Bias: 72:06–78:55
• Political Violence & Public Rhetoric: 81:47–89:23
• Conservative Split on Israel: 94:36–101:20
• Turning Point USA Growth: 101:20–107:24

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Tone and Language

• Highly opinionated, skeptical, and combative toward mainstream media and Democratic Party narratives.
• Speakers use direct, sometimes abrasive language—e.g., references to “Trump Derangement Syndrome,” “insane opposition party,” and explicit critiques of politicians and reporters.
• The conversation is fast-paced, critical, and often sarcastic.

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Memorable & Controversial Moments

• The skepticism and mockery directed at Democrats’ warning against “illegal orders.”
• Praise for Joy Reid’s defense of single-sex spaces, despite her being “unlistenable” otherwise.
• Multiple references to media hypocrisy, particularly regarding Epstein and political violence.
• Strong rebuke of Katie Couric’s attempt to frame Charlie Kirk's death as the result of his own rhetoric.
• The assertion that modern progressivism excuses or celebrates violence and cruelty against political opponents.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a passionate, critical, and sometimes caustic roundtable on political messaging, the manipulation of scandals, and media double standards. If you’re interested in pointed conservative commentary on the latest controversies—from military loyalty and fentanyl to the politics of scandal and the fallout of political violence—this episode offers detailed takes and unfiltered language.

Transcript

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[A]

Download Today welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. The Senate unanimously agreeing to pass the House backed bill forcing the Justice Department to release the Jeffrey Epstein case files. With some notable exceptions, it's on its way to President Trump who has done a complete 180 and now says he supports the release of the files. But get ready for the spin from the left who are working overtime to shift the narrative entirely. Plus Joy Reid we actually have something nice to say about her. She did something very good. We'll tell you what it is. Joining me now for reaction, Buck Sexton, co host of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. My friend just lost her ring. She went to replace it. She realized it was a gold ring. The price of it has gone up like 25% since she bought the ring a year ago. That's because gold is on the march upward and it is the one time of year that Birch Gold Group gives away free gold with every qualifying purchase. That's right for Black Friday. When you convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered IRA in gold, birch Gold will send free gold to your home for every $20,000 purchased. Gold started this year around 2,600 bucks an ounce. By October, it was over $4,000 an ounce. Why? Global Uncertainty 2025 has been defined by trade wars. Central banks are pulling from the US Dollar as the global reserve currency and military tension continues to build. Gold thrives in times of uncertainty and if you are looking to diversify your savings, Birch Gold can help you. Plus now through November 30th get free gold. Free Gold I say with a qualifying Purchase just text MK to the number 989898 to claim your eligibility and for a free info kit on gold. But your Opportunity for free gold with purchase will end on November 30th, so don't wait. Text MK to the number 989-898 for full details. Message and data rates may apply. Welcome back, Buck. Great to have you.

[B]

Hey, Megan, thank you so much.

[A]

How's that for a tease on Joy Reid? Okay, let's start with the weirdness that I. I don't even know what this is. I. Maybe you can explain it to me as a former CIA guy. This Democrat military video where you've got Senator Elise Slotkin, who's truly terrible. She pretends to be moderate, but she's actually a rabid leftist. And Senator Mark Kelly of Arizon, who's a Democrat married to Gabby Giffords for some reason decided to urge US Troops to ignore any illegal orders. Not even exactly sure what they're saying here. It feels very insurrectiony. Here it is.

[C]

We want to speak directly to members of the military and the intelligence community.

[B]

Who take risks each day to keep Americans safe.

[A]

We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk.

[C]

This administration is pitting our uniformed military.

[A]

And intelligence community professionals against American citizens like us.

[C]

You all swore an oath to protect.

[A]

And defend this Constitution.

[B]

Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad, but from right here at home. Our laws are clear.

[C]

You can refuse illegal orders.

[A]

You can refuse illegal orders.

[B]

You must refuse illegal orders.

[A]

No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution.

[D]

This is hard and that it's a.

[C]

Difficult time to be a public servant.

[A]

But whether you're serving in the CIA, the army, or Navy, the Air Force.

[C]

Your vigilance is critical.

[A]

And know that we have your back. Because now, more than ever, the American people need you. We need you to stand up for.

[C]

Our laws, our Constitution, and who we are as Americans.

[B]

Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up.

[A]

Don't give up. The ship. Oh, Lord. Pete Hegseth tweeted out in response to this. This is stage 4 TDS. What? What are they doing?

[B]

Well, first off, it's funny. Slotkin was like me, a CIA analyst working the Iraq issue. Although we didn't. Didn't coincide or I didn't actually work directly with her. But yeah, the CIA cannot afford any more damage to its reputation than it has suffered in the last, well, depending who you ask, decade or many decades. But that's just the whole video, Megan, is really an extension of that. Remember the hashtag resistance? That was the big Thing in the initial Trump administration, people just saying, resist, you know, do anything you can. And there was that guy who pretended to be. Now he pops up on msnbc, is like a third tier.

[A]

Anonymous.

[B]

Yeah, Anonymous. And. And people were like, if this isn't. If this isn't Jared Kushner, clearly it wasn't. But, like, if this isn't somebody really important, this is the most grandiose, preposterous essay ever written. And sure enough, it was some preposterous stooge. And yet here we are again with people who are effectively saying, throw sand in the gears of government. Do whatever you can. Now, I know what they're going to say. Oh, an illegal order. You can't. Okay, what's the illegal order?

[A]

What are they even talking about? No one even knows what they're talking about.

[B]

But this is. But what I'm saying is, if there's illegal orders, tell us what they are. Tell us what the problem is. Why are you reminding us? You know, this would be like Meghan badgering a witness on the stand. Excuse me, sir, do you know that you're under oath for the fifth time? The judge is going to be like, yeah, we all know they're under oath. What are you doing? Right. It's. It's meant to be kind of an underhanded swipe at the administration. And I also think it's their attempt to start to lay the groundwork, if you really want to know. I think that there. If we have a Democrat administration, heaven forbid, in 2028, they're going to try to bring effectively a war crimes tribunal together over these strikes on the narco terrorists. I mean, I think you can. You can basically set a timer to that.

[A]

So is that what you think it is? Because I genuinely didn't know what. It's not an effective ad because I'm very immersed in politics and I have no idea what they're addressing. I was like, are they talking about ice? You know, because they've been pushing the lie that ICE is running out there arresting American citizens. Is that what it is? Or is it the narco strikes? Like, is that an illegal order where, you know, President Trump has designated these cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. They're trying to bring in lethal chemicals to kill our sons and daughters. I have no idea. So who exactly are they talking? Like, the guys who run those bombers who are taking out those narco ships. What do you think?

[B]

Yeah, I think that their plan is that they're going to. Again, do they have control of the Senate? Do they have control of the House. Do they have the White House? Right. That's going to factor into this hugely. But let's just say they take the House, they're going to really push on this issue. They are right now setting the groundwork. They think that the strikes, meaning the Democrats, the Democrat establishment, and I've talked to people who, let's just say in the national security sphere are already seeing the rumblings of this, you know, already seeing the beginnings of it. So this isn't just me coming up with this out of thin air. Although again, I work in the CIA, so I have some idea of how these things go. They are going to say that these are war crimes and that these are illegal strikes and that they're unjustified and they're going to hold a whole bunch of hearings over it. It'll be a bit like for Democrats, a revisit of black sites and waterboarding and oh my gosh, now the problem they're gonna run into. Megan, I just wanna throw this out there and from your legal mind, I think you'll appreciate this a lot is that Barack Obama droned American citizens without trial abroad, including a 16 year old. And there was no, you know, this was just a 16 year old US citizen. You go back to the Anwar Alaki stuff and they tried very hard not to have this out in the press and they still pretend like, oh well, well, this was something that maybe happened, maybe it didn't happen. I mean, this is what the New York Times and all these others have ended up reporting. So if you're allowed to drone American citizens who are not engaged in any active anything other than plotting. Right, you could say they were plotting. Again, we're all a Lockheed. Didn't Obama set this precedent also the massive acceleration of the drone strikes in parts of Pakistan, the Northwest Frontier Province, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, you know, Waziristan. They're blowing up people left and right, including women and children by accident.

[A]

Obama bragged about how good he was at killing people with his drones and.

[B]

Exactly. And so that all happened. And so what you're going to see is they try to say, well, that's different, that was war on terror. And really it's different because he's a Democrat. He was Obama, the sainted Obama. But I really do think that that's the plan here. And this, this ad is the beginning of them creating this whole, you know, it's like no kings, war crimes. You're starting to see the, the beginning elements of the hashtag resistance come back together again.

[A]

So I really seriously question the effectiveness of this whole messaging because in no way to diminish what happened on 911 or what happened thereafter, but we have lost more people to fentanyl in this country, young people, than we lost in 911 in the post years, including all the firefighters and all the military blood and treasure that we sacrificed. Like, the human toll on this fentanyl crisis is beyond measure. And it's of our youngest, best, brightest, you know, kids who have it all in front of them, who make one mistake and take a pill they thought was an Adderall that's laced with fentanyl and they're dead. And it's. That is what Trump is trying to get at as these Venezuelan drug ships try to come up to America and elsewhere from south of the border to poison our children. Like, find me the American who's got a long list of sympathetic thoughts on those drug boats and thinks they ought to be allowed to come here, and then we'll just see if we can catch them. Who the hell has sympathy for these, the people driving these boats to our border?

[B]

I think there's much broader public support, quite honestly, for these strikes than the Democrats anticipated. And on the human toll, you know, I have a, a dear friend, I believe you know him as well, Megan. Stephen Yates at the Heritage Foundation. He lost his daughter two years ago to fentanyl poisoning. And, and he was having to deal with that just last week, losing, losing, losing his daughter. And when you understand, when you're near somebody who suffered the direct human toll, the unimaginable loss of a family member, and as you rightly point out, fentanyl is not marijuana. It's not cocaine. This is a different thing. This is far more dangerous, far more addictive and far more deadly than any other substance that's been part of the war on drugs ever before. And I sat in a meeting years ago with a attorney general and a bunch of his staff where they were discussing the use that the cartels make of press machines to seem to make it seem like the fentanyl pills that are sold on the street look like the actual pharmaceutical stuff that people will take sometimes. So you think you're taking a Xanax to your point about poisoning, but it's actually made in some vat in a lab somewhere in Mexico with Chinese precursors, and it kills the person who takes it on the first dose because there's no dosage control because it's from the cartels.

[C]

So.

[B]

But they make it look like it's from big pharma because people think that's safer. So that's the level of deviousness here. That's what's happened to so many Americans and we're losing so many of them. And what we've been doing isn't stopping it. Right. So that's the other part of this is we can continue to lose 100,000Americans a year to this or we can change the game.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And that's the Trump approach.

[A]

That's so right. A moment on Alyssa Slotkin before we leave this topic. I can't stand her. I sat in on the Pete Hegseth confirmation hearings. She stood out in her terribleness. Here's just a reminder of who she is and how she tries, tries to talk about how reasonable she is. I'm from Michigan. The same voters who elected President Trump voted for me. So I get them. I totally get them. And I'm former CIA. I'm, I'm of this industry, so I understand the military. But here's who she really is. Watch. Is there anything that a commander in chief could ask you to do with the uniform military that would be in violation of the US Constitution?

[C]

Senate, Anybody of any party could give.

[A]

An order that is against the Constitution.

[B]

Or against the law.

[E]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So, and are you, so are you saying that you would stand in the breach and push back if you were given an illegal order?

[B]

I start by saying I reject the.

[A]

Premise that President, I understand giving done your job.

[B]

Any illegal orders, but at all.

[A]

My, my, this isn't a hypothetical. Okay. Again, you're going to be in charge of 3 million people. The active duty that I know you care about, I believe you care about. Thanks. Have you been in conversations about using the active duty in any way, whether it's setting up in detention camps, policing dangerous cities? Have you been involved in any of those conversations?

[C]

Certainly I have been involved in conversations.

[B]

Relating to doing things this administration has not, which is secure the southern border.

[A]

Sir, sir, I get your filibustering. I get it. She's so annoying. Is she so self aggrandizing and congratulatory and there she was there. If you played out the whole thing, Buck, she, she continued, the whole cross examination of Pete was about how Trump is going to give an illegal order and he's going to execute it. And here she's back again. What illegal order has been given? They're making it up. There is no illegal order like. And by the way, Trump has immunity for orders given in his capacity as commander in chief, the U.S. supreme Court. Just so found a ruling with which she should be very familiar.

[B]

Yes. Well, this is playing right into Trump Derangement Syndrome. I know there was recently a guest I saw on Fox who's a psychotherapist and he said that he's dealing with a lot of patients who should be described as having a clinical Trump based anxiety disorder. And that is what Trump Derangement syndrome is. These people are not rational. They, they don't care what's actually happening. And the Democrats are able to mobilize them and keep them in this state of frenzy by these really, these insinuations. And that's what this would, would you follow a lawful, I mean, an unlawful order from, from Donald Trump? It's like, what's the unlawful, as I started out saying, what's the unlawful order? Where is he? This is the administration. Yeah, this is the administration that every time some grandiose Obama or Biden or maybe even Clinton appointed judge decides to usurp the executive branch for himself, this administration goes, all right, we'll see you in court. We'll deal with this again. You know, we'll go to appeals, we'll go to the Supreme Court. What we'll do, we have to do. These are not the actions of someone of an administration that doesn't care about the rule of law and that isn't doing things as they're supposed to be done, despite whatever the Democrats tell themselves and how frenzied and maniacal they get on this issue.

[A]

So they're dying to be victims. They're dying to be like, victims of his, his legal excesses. And oh my God, we knew he was going to issue an illegal order and now he's doing it without even specifying what the hell they're talking about. It's a, it's a failure on a PR level and it will be a failure if they pursue it legally too. Okay, let's keep going.

[B]

That he's a Nazi. And if you really think that Nazism has taken over America, you belong in a straitjacket in a rubber room. Like, you need a lot of help.

[A]

I mean, literally, Mark Levin was calling me a Nazi two weeks ago. That term is grossly overused. It is a joke now. And because of fuckers like him, they've taken a term that has actual teeth to it and they're working on diminishing that one too. It used to be a leftist tactic with the word racist and bigot. Now it's a right wing tacket by a tactic by guys like Mark Levin who have lost it Actually truly lost it and need, in my view, psychological help. All right, let's keep going to Epstein because lots of news in that. Why do you think Trump reversed himself after like literally a week and a half ago, was called Lauren Boebert, Republican, into the Situation Room to reportedly lean into her to not vote for this Jeffrey Epstein file release bill that was making its way through the House like he was picking on individual Republicans to get them not to vote for it. She wouldn't agree. And then within hours, Trump did a 180 saying, I'm in favor of it, now I'm in favor of it, which led to a near unanimous passage of the bill in the House and then a unanimous passage of the bill in the Senate, which prior to that reversal, there's a question about whether it would even get a vote in the Senate. Now it not only got a vote, it passed immediately last night. Now it's headed for his desk where he says he's going to sign it. And I have my own theory on why he did the 180 and what's gonna be withheld because he does control the DOJ that's got these files. But what's your take on it?

[B]

I just want this issue to be something that we have the full transparency needed to move beyond, at least in the day to day, this sort of constant, what I view as the speculation Olympics. Because what happens is people just approach this, you know, not you, and I hope, you know, not me, but a lot of people. It's just an opportunity to try to create some fable where Donald Trump is actually at the center of this and he's a bad guy and the Democrats are so desperate for that. Okay, but on the Trump part of this, here's what I see. Knowing Trump for a, Having met him a very long time ago and having known him obviously throughout the administration, his two, his two administrations, I would say he does not like to be told what to do. And I know that sounds very basic. And what does that have to do with this? He, he didn't want these released. And the fact that the base is effectively demanding, and the Trump base, and I know this because of my radio show, I hear from them every day, the Trump base is demanding Epstein file transparency. So he doesn't like to be feeling like he's overruled. So I think there's just a stubbornness, quite honestly, with this. And then I think from Trump and I think that there's a. Which has been overcome. And I think that there's a frustration from Trump as well that now here we go again. You know, you know, he's going to be like the fake news. Abc, cbs, you know, they're saying that, like I'm involved in this. We've already been over this. We've talked about it a million times. I mean, the timing of this from the House Democrats releasing some of it right when the shutdown turned into a giant belly flop of epic proportions for them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That was obvious. And he was right to call that out, Megan. So I don't, I am absolutely confident that there's nothing in there that is truly derogatory about Donald Trump. There might be some things that people can insinuate and they will, but I don't think there's anything that's truly derogatory or I should say shows culpability of any kind. And I think that he's just frustrated with all the, the stuff around this. I will see the administration made some big mess ups here and not Trump, but some of the people work for him. Yeah, they screwed up on that and they just did. And we have to be honest about that. The binders, that was, that was foolish looking. And then the Pam Bondi talking about it and not talking about it and what's going to happen. And I have them on my desk. So there were PR missteps. But that's a world of difference from Donald Trump is hiding the smoking gun. He's not hiding the smoking gun. People need to get a grip. The walls are not closing in on him. And I hope that finally, when these files come out, that will be that.

[A]

It's so disgusting because the media's determination to make this story about Donald Trump has completely bastardized the whole story. The story's not about Trump. It's about Jeffrey Epstein and his disgusting pals who were using and abusing and sexually molesting young women for years there. They have nothing, nothing to suggest that Trump was one of them. He was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. But the main alleged victim they've been pointing to on Trump is on the record under oath saying Trump never touched her, her and that she never saw him with another woman. And all these alleged victims who keep going on NBC and so on, they all say, no, nothing on Trump. There is not a single woman who has said, yes, I was trafficked by Epstein to Trump. There's one who says Trump walked into a house with Epstein and allegedly fondled her upon meeting her. Okay, that's, that's the best they have so far. And they're waiting for some sort of smoking gun in these materials. So I think Trump did his 180 because he had to. He knew he was going to lose it. Like, the Republicans were determined to vote yes on this because he's demanding it, too.

[B]

Megan. Finally, his, his base was like, no, we need this.

[A]

And so he said, but he doesn't, he doesn't mind flipping the bird to his base. You know, he's like, he always, he's quick to remind them, I'm, I'm the boss here. But he was going to lose the vote in the House, and he didn't want to look like he did something.

[B]

The first time around. Basically, he was like, shut up, guys. We're done talking about this. But they didn't stop talking about it. And they're. Yeah.

[A]

So I think he had to do the 180 just to save face. And then that made the ball, you know, go even faster in the House and then the Senate, and now he's got to sign it. But look, there are enough exceptions to what the DOJ has to turn over that if Trump were really worried about a document or two, there is the potential that he could just designate it classified and we wouldn't see it. They're not turn. They're not releasing classified documents, and they're not releasing anything that would reflect identities of victims and so on. Like, look, I don't believe for one second that the Epstein scandal's about Trump, nor do I believe Trump trafficked girls, nor do I believe Trump ever raped or sexually assaulted a girl that we're gonna see in these files, or that's, that's even in these files. But I do think something has gone on that changed his opinion. And given that he controls the doj, Pam Bondi answers to him. He's gotta have some level of comfort that nothing's going out there that's going to completely crush him, because otherwise I think he'd be standing where he stood in July, which is, we're not doing this. Move the hell on.

[B]

I think that this was one of the rare times where Trump threw the pressure. You cannot bend Trump if you are anti Trump. Right. I mean, that's like his, his. He has an invincibility, an unstoppable force when it comes to, if you're a Trump hater, if you're Trump deranged, he doesn't care what you say, he doesn't care what you do. It is a rare occasion when Trump voters can say, you know, effectively, Mr. President, we need you to do this. And you can't tell us that we don't want this. And this is, I think, one of those occasions. You point out, rightly, that he was going to lose the vote in Congress if he didn't go along with this. But that's because Trump voters were telling people in Congress, you, you know, you jokers better get this done. We're watching you too. Right. So it was really a groundswell of everybody, including the, you know, or everybody rather on the Trump side saying, we can't let this thing go. We actually have to get more transparency out there. And so that's, that's where we are. But, yeah, I have no, you know, there have been times where something's going to drop and it's going to hurt somebody on the right and maybe it's even going to hurt Trump. And I'm, I'm like, look, I got a brace for impact. Going to speak about it honestly. We'll work through this. It's not one of those times. No, I'm not sitting here saying to myself, oh, my gosh, when the files come out, how are we going to explain whatever's in there about Trump? First of all, if he did anything wrong, people on the right would be outraged about it. But we know he did. And we'd know because we would already know.

[A]

We'd know who ran the DOJ before, Pam Bondi, Merrick Garland, who tried to put Trump in jail repeatedly. The thought that there's something in the DOJ back pocket that would totally incriminate Trump is a Democrat fantasy. It's not going to come true. Let's keep going as there's other Epstein news, including this. She's not a congresswoman because she's from the Virgin Islands, which is a territory, not a state. So. But her name is Stacy Plaskett and it's come out that she was texting with Jeffrey Epstein while she was conducting a congressional hearing. She was cross examining Michael Cohen, taking suggestions on exactly what he should ask Michael Cohen in the best way to set up Trump and get Trump. Which, and it was this all after, after it was clear that he had pled guilty to solicitation of prostitution with a minor, which, as I always remind people, is not a thing. If you're solicitating, if you're soliciting sex with a minor, you're raping somebody. There's no consenting for a minor to prostitution. Minor prostitution is not a thing. Um, in any event, she had no problem corresponding with Epstein post that. And then the Miami Herald piece broke, which really blew the whole Epstein Scandal wide open in November of 2018. And this is post that. So this is post that where she's texting with him. It's February of 2019. She's texting with him like he's her BFF on how to get the goods from Michael Cohen. So now the House decided, should we censure her for doing this? This is so disgusting. And it's really given us a black eye. And they decided not to. The. The vote was very close, but it did not pass. And Buck Hakeem Jeffries goes out there and says, oh, I want to get the quote. Exactly. During the debate on the resolution suggested Republicans were targeting Plaskett because of her race.

[B]

Oh, the race card. I couldn't see that one coming a mile away. Yeah.

[A]

Do you believe this crap?

[B]

Look, here's. Here's something else that Trump has been saying about this issue, and I truly believe that he is. He is frustrated that this is still a thing that we have to talk about. And as I said, the administration made some missteps and fed into that a bit. And some of the administration figures, including people I like and respect very much, were kind of part of fanning these flames and then trying to douse them, which is a little bit of a, you know, a difficult. A difficult dance to do, like fanning the flames of. We need transparency. And then it's. Well, I mean, we gave you as much transparency as we can. Like, that was a tough.

[A]

You're good.

[B]

That was a tough turn. Yeah, that was a tough turnabout. But I would say on. On the broader issue, Trump is saying, look at who was really involved with Epstein. Meaning. And when I say involved, I want to be very clear because I also think it's important ethically and legally to be very, very specific. And I would caution other people out there in the commentary space or listening to this or just, you know, in their own social media, like, don't accuse people of things for which there is no evidence, especially when you're talking about sex crimes, because they will. And she can sue you and will win. Okay. Because you can't go around saying someone's, you know, a pedophile because you don't like them. And I think that there's going to be a lot of people that are trying to find something in this. In this trove of released documents so that they can attack their political enemies. Right. So that's one part of it. But it's Democrats who were involved as friends, associates, longtime companions, frequent companions at the island, on the plane, you know, It's Bill Gates, it's Bill Clinton, it's. It's Reid Hoffman. It's. I mean, you go down the list.

[A]

These are all Larry Summers.

[B]

Larry Summers, who just with the CCP daughter, you know, the Chinese Communist Party. That's an amazing story, by the way, that that isn't getting more attention. Larry Summers, one of the senior, most really the. The treasury secretary, in a sense of the Democrats over the course of like 20 years, he's trying to seduce the daughter of a top Chinese Communist Party member and. And is like passing pronouncements on US China policy. And he's already married and he's going to Jeffrey Epstein for advice. You would think that would be a. Could you imagine if that was a Republican? Imagine if it was like Ted Cruz instead of Larry Summers, like a big figure. And like, it would be the big.

[A]

Like a nervous, perverted little schoolboy being like, jeffrey, is she a prostitute? Jeffrey, what should I do? Jeffrey, this is all post the scandal. Like he just, like Plaskett, knew full well what Epstein had pleaded guilty to was being accused of. They didn't care. Larry Summers kept his relationship going with Jeffrey Epstein well beyond that Miami Herald report. He didn't care. And just as a reminder to the audience, the Miami Herald report blew open the number of victims who had come forward, alleged victims, back in 28, 2008, when he pleaded guilty to those two crimes, but that there were literally three dozen young women who had come forward saying, me too, me too, me too. And so that. That broke in November of 18, and still Larry Summers and Plaskett and a long list of others were like, no problem for me, Larry, It's. It's me, Larry. Jeffrey, please help me figure out my love life. Keep going.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

How did Jeffrey Epstein get such a hold psychologically over some of these incredibly powerful, influential and wealthy men? And I really do mean, I know there are a lot of possible answers, but I do think we should get closer to the actual answer or answers on that because to your point, this guy was the treasury secretary and he's acting like just some like weirdo buffoon on this issue. Going to Jeffrey Epstein, who's a. Who's a convicted, at this point, convicted sex criminal.

[A]

Like, he's on the sex offender list, right?

[B]

He's on the sex offender list. I mean, I always remember Christopher Hitchens had this test. He's like. He's like, is someone too gross? He's like, well, if you're sitting down at lunch with somebody and they say, you know, I did A couple of years for tax evasion. Do you finish the lunch?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, you shouldn't evade your taxes, but you paid your debt to society, you know, tax evasion. It's like if you sat down with somebody and they said, you know, I had, you know, committed like a violent sex crime or underage sex crime. Do you finish the lunch? No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You do not.

[A]

I raped a minor. I raped a minor. Sure. How about dessert?

[B]

You're not, you're not, you know, you're. You're adjourning the meeting. Right. And so all these people who were around, who were around Epstein seemed to be willfully turning. I don't even. It's not even turning a blind eye. I mean they just, I guess they didn't care. And then the other part of this though, and I wanted to get to this, cuz this is still. And I would, I would ask anybody. We will hear people say things like, well, we know where Jeffrey Epstein's money came from. That is a lie. That is not true.

[A]

Yeah, we do not know.

[B]

We'd love to know where his money came from. I mean, for some. Some reason this kind of gets chirped around. Oh, we know where his money came from. We absolutely do not. You can go on. I of your choice. I'm a grok man myself, but you go on AI of your choice and say, where did Epstein's money come from? It'll say, not really clear. A bunch of. Megan. $600 million. You know, you know, this is the kind of money and that's what they found. I'm sure there was more that was stashed in numbered accounts in some of those little jurisdictions where people still can hide money. $600 million. People say that he was a tax expert. I have a tax expert. Great guy, by the way. But he's not worth $600 million. You know what I'm saying? Like this, this is. No, you don't make someone gifted him. Have you ever seen that? I mean, you know, you're. You spent a lot of time Manhattan too. Have you ever seen the house that Epstein lived in?

[A]

It's the nicest, biggest house in Manhattan. Or at least was at the time.

[B]

Pretty much. It's like, I mean it is like a Rockefeller era mansion extraordinaire. I think it's something like an $80 million home and it was given to him. Now the thing about money is that you can trace it, you can follow these flows. Why don't we have. I want to see more so even than you Know, a lot of. A lot of the questions that are sort of floating around now, because I think that if there was anything. Again, I think if there was something in this release, we would have already found out. This is what I've been saying about all the JFK files, by the way, and that's also been true. I was in the CIA. Super cool, secret stuff doesn't stay secret for long because somebody eventually wants to be the one who blows the whistle on it. But I want to know where the money came from, because I think that's.

[A]

The townhouse was gifted by Victoria's Secret founder Lex Wexner. And, I mean, I think a lot of us have questions about how close he was to Epstein, why, for how long, why he continued it, and why he would give him these extraordinary gifts. Would love to know more.

[B]

Yeah, and that's. So that's okay. That's the $80 million house, $600 million stashed away. This guy had a private island and was running his own, you know, was running his own jet all over the world and getting all these people he was able to impress with his wealth and connections. The wealthiest and most powerful people. Not all of them, obviously, but Prince Andrew on the planet.

[A]

Bill Clinton. Yeah. It's a long list. All right, let's keep going. There's more to discuss here.

[E]

Bill.

[B]

Bill Gates is like, wow, this guy's really got something. What has he got? Bill, you got a lot of money.

[E]

Why are you.

[B]

Why are you.

[A]

You know, let's not forget why Bill Gates. His marriage broke up. Melinda Gates is on record as saying one of the reasons was she was very uncomfortable with his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And also, he has a serious penchant for young women and seems to be somewhat of a sexual dog for somebody his age. I mean, he seems to like him, you know, on the younger side, and the parties with the young women and infidelity to his wife, allegedly. And look, it's disgusting. Doesn't mean he's a sexual predator. But as long as we're taking a hard look at all of Jeffrey Epstein's associates, like Donald Trump, no man who was close to him is safe. We're allowed to look at Gates, we're allowed to look at Summers, we're allowed to look at Clinton. And thanks to Trump, we will be having a DOJ investigation into some of them. Okay, I want to get to this, because it's just so dumb. Jasmine Crockett. She's so dumb. I knew you were a name, by.

[B]

The way, Just based on the way you were setting this up.

[A]

She's so dumb. Here she is in SOP4. Let's listen, folks, who also took money from somebody named Jeffrey Epstein. As I had my team dig in very quickly. Mitt Romney, the NRCC, Lee Zeldin, George Bush win. Read, McCain, Palin, Rick Lazio. I just want to be clear. If this is the standard that we gonna make, just know we gonna expose it all. Oh, my God. She's talking about a Dr. Jeffrey Epstein. Who. Who's not the Jeffrey Epstein who made those donations. Her crack team uncovered the latest list of possible predators. No, no, no. Honestly, she's lucky she said that on the House floor because she could get sued like that if she didn't. She's too dumb to be a member of Congress, and that's saying something. Buck.

[B]

There was a story, and this is sound like a diversion, but it just reminds me too much this. There's a story at Amherst, my college, where. Where the, like the student committee that invites speakers. This is back in like the, I don't know, the early 80s or something, when people still use phone books. They wanted to have Jesse Jackson, and so they invited the Reverend Jesse Jackson from Chicago to come speak. And no one figured out until the reverend arrived that it was a different Reverend Jesse Jackson.

[A]

Oh, no. Oh, this just happened to the. Was it the Guardian who tried to interview Bill de Blasio, former mayor of New York?

[B]

I love that guy.

[A]

They got the wrong Bill de Blasio, who gave him a big interview about his thoughts on mom dying. Oh, he was totally the wrong guy.

[B]

I give this guy the act. First of all, you know what Bill de Blasio is. I've been, you know, when I used to fill in for Rush, I remember I popularized this and people in the Rush audience to remember this. Do you know what Bill de Blasio's name was? Warren Wilhelm. He changed his name. Yes. Go check it out. Go check it out. No one ever believes me. Grocking everybody. Go check it out.

[A]

It's a much better name than Bill de Blasio.

[B]

Bill de Blasio. He wanted to be Bill de Blasio, the union guy. You know, you could trust him. You know, Blasio from down the block. Yo, he changed his name. His name was Warren Wilhelm and he changed it. And I just think that that's one of the, like, most kind of astonishing name changes.

[A]

Very telling. By the way, I was wrong. It wasn't Guardian. It was Times of London. Just for the record, I mean, honestly, that, like, the irresponsibility of just, you know, throwing things out there as a. As a sitting representative is. It's stunning.

[B]

And speaking for a second, though, the Bill de Blasio guy, who's not Bill de Blasio, giving his thoughts on the mayor's race, I love that guy. That guy's amazing.

[A]

I know. He's like, hey, they wanted my thoughts on Mom, Daddy, so I gave them the Times of London was just doing a spiral for days thereafter. Okay, Kara Swisher has some thoughts on where this release of the Epstein files, which is coming now after it's been passed by both houses of Congress, and it's going to Trump's desk on where this is going. Here she is in Stop five. I do think this is it. There is definitely a photo of him in some fashion. And so if there's a photo, I think, you know, the pussy grabbing thing was voice, which was problematic enough, but there's a photo like what happened to Andrew. I think it's game over. And then we have President fucking James.

[B]

But if we're to speculate.

[A]

Wait, hold on.

[B]

You think this ends his presidency prematurely?

[A]

Yes. He'll be sick. He'll be that. Yeah, I do. I think he's not going to make it to the end.

[B]

Be careful what you wish for. I think J.D.

[E]

Vance.

[A]

I agree. Hello. I just called him a couch to San Francisco. Just checking in on the normal left. So this, the Epstein thing will bring the Trump presidency down and JD Vance is a couch, According to Kara Swisher.

[B]

Yeah. Those are supposed to be, like, the two leading intellectuals of. Of the new left or the, you know, the. The establishment. The sort of new establishment left, if you will, because they're on the podcast side. And, you know, Kara Swisher, my only interaction with her ever was her. Just astonished that I didn't think that masks outside was a good policy. So, I mean, I'm one of these people who looks at them like, these are not smart people. I mean, maybe they.

[A]

She's really hateful.

[B]

Yeah. Really, really nasty. And I would say on the Trump thing, I mean, she's. What does she want to bet that this doesn't. You know, this is. I wish we could start doing this now where I just say, you know, what. What do you want? What do you want to put up? How much money do you want to put up that there's no photo of Trump? It's not going to end his presidency. But, Meghan, the problem is the Democrat audience has been so conditioned for. My gosh, we finally got him that anything that isn't. We finally got Trump. Trump doesn't get attention. In fact, people get angry at those who will say, look guys, like, let's think about the midterms. You know, the country's not actually on fire. No, you can't say that. As a Democrat, you have to say that Trump is Hitler. You have to say these insane things and she's just playing into them. What she said is manifestly stupid. And in a week or in a day or whatever it is, when we see what comes out of this, it won't be true. And what she said will look asinine, but she'll just move on to something else.

[A]

And remember when James Carville predicted that Trump wasn't even going to make it to mid February of 2025 on his term, that like he was gonna, this was the beginning of the end, he was going down, he was gonna implode. It was like these, these like hardcore Trump deranged Democrats view, who are in the public eye, like issuing opinions for a living, they view it as like dropping. Let me finish. They view it as like dropping like little dollops of cocaine on the tongues of their listeners. Right. Like I'm gonna give you like an upper, I'm gonna make your serotonin surge with exactly what I know you wanna hear. And it's not, it's just so opposite of the business we're supposed to be in, which is speaking hard truths and like staying in the field of reality.

[B]

Yeah, they take this all very personally because, and I think that always has to be remembered, the anti Trump media lost. He beat them, he defeated them. Not just in getting elected the first time, but even more so in getting elected the second time when they had the full force of a corrupt and senile presidency and its DOJ henchmen and all of the establishment Democrat media arrayed against Trump to stop him from becoming president. And now also because of shows like this one and also the ability to say things freely on X, they just don't have the same hold on the public's mind and even the public's imagination that they used to. And I bring it up because they're deeply resentful. The New York Times, to well informed people is a joke. It is not an objective entity, it is not fair. It is not taking the approach of journalism. Yeah, it says things that are true, but that doesn't mean that it's doing so in order to spread the truth. It also says a lot of stuff that's absolute crap and that it's dishonest. And just like cnn, fundamentally dishonest about the mission. The mission is not to inform the public in a neutral way about what matters. It is to program the public based on a previously set ideology and orthodoxy that if you don't adhere to in any of these newsrooms or on that podcast, whatever it's called, you're a bad person, and they will shun you and they will kick you out. Trump beat them. He beat all of them. And so they're. This is why I think the bitterness. Yes, the audience craves that bitterness. To your point, about, like, putting a little bit of, you know, cocaine or whatever out there for them. Like, like the old experiments with the, you know, the hamster and the pedal, like, get more cocaine. See, beyond that, though, I think that a lot of people who think of themselves as, like, the guardians of our democracy in the media realize that. I look at them and I've been doing this now for 15 years. I'm like, you people are just jackasses, honestly. And you've done a huge disservice to your audience.

[A]

To your point, let me give you another Kara Swisher sop. So that thing about JD Allegedly Effing a couch was completely made up by some blogger when Trump and Vance were running against Kamala. And it was literally just made up out of thin air. Somebody claimed it was in his book. It's not in his book. Just read the book. You'll see it's a lie. And they just did it to smear him. And now in the Anatomy of a Smear, it gets raised over and over by dishonest people like Kara Swisher. And so, understanding that she could get sued if she let that hang in the air as she just did, she decides to fix it. And this is how she fixes it. Take a listen to six. Just what's been released now is crazy and problematic for the President, obviously. And I think he hasn't had a. Had an eruption all day.

[C]

You haven't.

[A]

J.D. vance is gone. I don't know where he went. He usually gets on and gets all mad about things and, you know, sits on a couch, et cetera, and he has not been available. I have to. I don't think he fucked a couch, everyone. I think I. I don't. I don't think he fucked a couch. But the fact of the matter is, I think he could. See, that's. That's where I feel about him.

[B]

It's not even. I mean, it's not funny. It's not clever.

[A]

She's disgusting.

[B]

She's gross. And, and people that are laughing at that. I feel sorry, I feel sorry for them because they have been so programmed. You know, they are, they are the, the left wing lemmings. Although fun fact, lemmings actually don't commit mass suicide. That was totally fabricated by a Disney documentary. Conversation for another time. Something you learned, Megan, you have me on your show. We learn fun things, we talk about fun things together. Yeah, but they have been so programmed, they have been so brainwashed by their own media that they just, they would rather you could hear it. It was an uneasy laugh because I think at some level they must recognize that what she's saying is, I mean, he's a sitting vice president. What she's saying is dumb. It's based in nothing, it's disrespectful.

[A]

He's got kids, he's got young kids. It's like really, you have to drag him with a completely made up lie. You know, his children are going to see this. Like, you're so gross. They just don't care. There's no humanity.

[B]

Here's the thing. On the right, we actually have. There are a lot of people on the right who, whether you agree with them or not, they are actually impressive individuals. They're people of considerable character, talent, skill. Thinking of somebody like J.D. vance, of course, I mean, his story is amazing and people know hillbilly elegy, but he's an incredibly high wattage guy. He understands these issues. You look at Marco Rubio, you look at Scott Bessen, you look at the people in this administration and whether or not you agree with their decisions and think that they have tremendous wisdom, they definitely have tremendous iq, ability, talent, backgrounds. And then you look at the Biden administration and you look at the Democrat bench and you look at the people that are making decisions. It's a clown show.

[A]

And you see Jasmine Crockett.

[B]

It's not just because I disagree with him. I mean, the top people around, I mean, Karine Jean Pierre is a moron.

[A]

And I don't like being any objective measure.

[B]

She's an idiot. She's truly a moron. And Joe Biden wasn't smart before he had the dementia. Has always just been the slimiest used car salesman of a politician on the planet. And then you look at Kamala. Kamala's a moron.

[E]

Okay?

[B]

Not an intelligent person, not impressive in any capacity whatsoever. Tim Walsh, Tim Walls, not an impressive person. Not. You go down this list and you compare and an objective party or somebody who's just trying to look at things for what they are goes on the one side, you have people who, men and women who are, in their own ways, are badasses and do cool things and have been successful. And you look at the leadership of the Democrat party and they're a bunch of whiny, dei obsessed, you know, pro transing your kids, open borders wackos. And this is the fundamental problem the Democrat party has. They can't, they can't seem to find a way to get around this.

[A]

On that subject, here is Scott Jennings on cnn and he's raising questions about whether this panel's willingness to run toward Trump's in the Epstein files in a way that's going to bring him down is sound reasoning. And he gets this back from a guy named Joshua Doss. Watch this exchange. Thought 7.

[B]

You keep saying, well, he didn't do anything. There's no indication of criminality. If that's true, he should be elated that we're putting this in. If that's true. It is true.

[C]

Can you name any evidence?

[B]

I would like to see the evidence. What I'm saying is, 10 years of.

[C]

Public life, you wouldn't know it already.

[B]

No, I don't.

[C]

That's exactly the point.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

This is an IQ test.

[A]

Don't fail it. Come on, man. Scott.

[B]

That'S embarrassing. Just real quick, I just want to bring it back to something that just happened. I feel like I just heard Scott call into question this black man's intelligence with the IQ test.

[C]

That's.

[B]

I feel like I heard that. And so I just want to say something.

[A]

This is.

[B]

What. It's ridiculous.

[A]

You want to make it racial.

[B]

Yeah, but it's ridiculous. Well, I mean, I think that, by.

[A]

The way, we know each other, we're friends.

[E]

I'm not.

[C]

I know this man.

[B]

He's a smart guy.

[A]

And we're having a debate.

[B]

We're having a debate. Don't, don't, don't make it into something.

[A]

We don't even know each other.

[C]

But we do.

[B]

This actually relates to, relates Back to the topic that we're having, Scott. There is a. You're sitting here with so much confidence without seeing all of the documents that.

[E]

Donald Trump is innocent.

[B]

There is a presumption, a presumption of guilt that a black man walks around the United States with that. I have been watching Donald Trump navigate this situation with the presumption of innocence that is never, never afforded to us.

[A]

Okay, first of all, it's presumption. It's not presumption. Second of all, calling out somebody to say, this is an IQ test. Let's see if you pass. It can be done to a white person, a brown person, a black person, an Asian person. Get over your obsession with your melanin. It's ridiculous. Buck.

[B]

Well, playing the race car just doesn't work the way that it used to. And that's why you can tell Scott's not, you know, he's like, he's, he's calling it out. He's. He's not worried that, oh, no, what's going to happen to me now? Am I going to get fired? Is my career over? Am I going to be kicked out of, you know, polite society? Because I, Everyone understood what Scott was saying. He said, it is an IQ test. He wasn't really referring directly to the guy's IQ that he's talking. But this is what you're going to see more of this. There's a desperation. The way the left has to argue, unfortunately, is stuff like this. Because on the primary issues, they're just wrong.

[A]

On the big issue, even if he said, you are dumb, you are failing the IQ test, you're stupid. And I know that from your inane analysis here. You can say that to a black man. It's actually disrespectful to say. You cannot say that to a black person. Black people are just like white people. Some are dumb, some are smart. All are capable of withstanding an insult or an offensive comment. And to pretend there's a special category of group who we can never insult because somehow it cuts more deeply is to otherize black people in a way that we really want to stop doing and kind of start. Started to stop doing 50 years ago. It's only recently that they've renewed the request to put themselves in a special category. It's a no.

[B]

Yeah. I'm very pleased that American society has evolved to a place in recent years where we can just treat everybody like individuals and human beings. We don't have to put everybody in these DEI obsessed boxes and, and we can treat each other as adults and as equals, truly, and not play games like what you just saw there on air, which was just bad faith. I mean, watching Scott Jennings on CNN is definitely a guilty pleasure. It's a lot of fun watching him slap these people around.

[A]

But nonetheless, just the clips because literally nobody's watching the Abby Phillips Show, Buck Sexton, thank you, my friend. Always great to have you.

[B]

Great to see you, Megan. Thank you.

[A]

Coming up next, Andrew Colvitt and Blake Neff from Turning Point and the Charlie Kirk Show. Don't miss that. Ever notice those creepy ads that pop up on your phone and seem to know exactly where you've been, what you've bought, even what you've been talking? You're probably asking yourself when you see them, is my phone monitoring me? The truth is, your smartphone is constantly collecting and leaking data without your knowledge or consent. Every day it builds a detailed profile of your life, your location, your habits, your interests, even the people with whom you communicate. That info is tracked, analyzed, and it's sold to the highest bidder. It's not just annoying, it's invasive. And it's happening all the time. But the upphone by Unplugged is different. It is designed to protect your privacy from the ground up. No hidden trackers, no data mining. Just a secure, streamlined smartphone experience that puts you back in control. It is the phone for people who are done being watched. Ready to take back your digital privacy? Visit unplugged.com mk and get 25 bucks off a phone case with a purchase of a phone. Learn more and order your upcoming phone today. That's unplugged.com mk because your life should be yours, not theirs.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

It's a very important time in our country.

[E]

Megan.

[B]

Stand firmly.

[C]

Do not waver on the truth.

[A]

Next stops, Bakersfield, Anaheim and the grand finale in Glendale, Arizona featuring special guest Erica Kirk. I really genuinely feel like it's more important right now than ever, you know, for all the reasons and it took courage for all of you to come.

[B]

The biggest thing we can do is be unafraid.

[A]

So go get your tickets right now before they sell out. MeganKelly.com presented by Y Refi and Sirius XM. Now we're joined by two first time guests at the center of the conservative movement with Turning Point usa. There's been some insane hate, insane that Turning Point has received on college campuses recently and we are going to get into more of that on today's news. Joining me now, Andrew Colvitt. He's a TP USA spokesperson. He is and has been executive producer of the Charlie Kirk show along with Blake Neff, also a producer of the Charlie Kirk Show. Guys, welcome to the show. Great to have you.

[C]

Thanks, Megan. It's honored to be here.

[D]

Thanks for having us.

[A]

It's wonderful to see you both. Last time we were actually together was when I was sitting on your set with you guys talking about Charlie and we saw each other at the memorial. But last time I saw you up close and personal. So it's great to see you. I have to start with something joyful. Okay, we're gonna start with something super joyful. Think this is gonna make us all happy. And it happens to relate to a woman named Joy, in this case, Joy Reid, who, believe it or not, you're going to applaud. Listen to Sat 13, I would be disturbed. I'm telling you, I would be alarmed. I'm alarmed enough when I see a woman with her dangling boobies. Yeah. If I saw a penis in the ladies rocket room, I would freak out too. This is just. I mean, this is nothing against trans anybody. What it's saying is I turn around and I see a pee pee, a penis in front of me inside of the room. I would probably go to management and say, wait a minute. Why is there somebody. A naked man in this room? Because just the world we live in. Just from a safety standpoint and just from a, you know, from a privacy standpoint, I would. So I can see why she would have gone and reported to management there's a man naked in the bed. Now, if they clarified and they said, well, trans, okay, But I think they should take her concerns also seriously, because if she's uncomfortable, does she not have the right to be at least uncomfortable with this situation is what I'm saying. Okay, I know that I don't wanna overstate it, but this is kind of a watershed moment. She's talking about Tish Hyman, who got kicked out of the Gold's Gym in LA because she objected to a trans person being in there walking around in full frontal nudity. She alleges, and by the way, the guy was a domestic abuser convicted of breaking a woman's jawbone in a compound fracture. I mean, the kind of force that would take a dangerous guy. And I know it's like, okay, maybe it's because this woman was black and she's a lesbian. And Joy Reid's like, okay, I can shout her out, but I don't really care. It actually is very important to have somebody who's such a committed, far left person come out and start standing up for women's rights against these trannies who are invading our locker rooms and our bathrooms and so on. And so I genuinely applaud Joy Reid for doing this. I genuinely applaud her and I welcome her to the fight, and I hope she stays on the right side. I think this is a very, very good sign. Thoughts on it?

[D]

Long odds, Megan. Long odds.

[A]

What do you mean, Blake? What do you mean she's crossing over on one issue? And on this issue, as somebody who had this all wrong back in the 1718 timeframe myself, I can say when somebody sees the light and joins the right squad, we should welcome them with open arms, even if we disagree on literally everything else.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan, Megan, of, you know, not having a totally insane opposition party. That the country would be a better place if we could get the basics right and we could come to an agreement on, you know, there's men and there's women. They do not belong in each other's locker rooms. Those type of things should be common sense, but increasingly, you know, they haven't been. And so, yeah, I'm with you. I mean, I find Joy Reid a really, really detestable race baiter. I find her opinions largely impossible to listen to and agree with. And by the way, Charlie, Charlie felt the same. One of our favorite pastimes was. Was commenting on Joy Reid's incessant insanity. And so. But listen, I'm with you. Yeah, this is good. More of this Joy Reid. More, more, more. Because you have a long way to go still. That's. That's where I net out here.

[A]

She does. But it's like the people we're trying to influence who are still in the dark ages on this issue, are all the people on her side. They are much more likely to listen to Joy Reid than they are to the three of us. So it's great. I'll take all the support and help I can get. We can get. And especially because this really is a women's rights issue. You know, it's not like guys aren't complaining about fake men going into the men's room. It's the other way around. That we really do need a united front from actual women who are the ones going into these spaces and finding themselves endangered. And that's why this woman, Tish Hyman, who just threw down over this issue, she was a game changer. This woman has not stopped talking since it happened. And she's very effective. She shut down a San Francisco group meeting on this with the terrible Scott Weiner, who's a nightmare, who may be elected to Nancy Pelosi's seat. And she appears to have convinced Joy Reid. So go, Tish, go. Okay. Lots more to discuss. And almost none of it is as uplifting as the Joy Reid moment. I'm just gonna. Just gonna tell that to you, honestly. Let's kick it off after her with Jack Schlossberg. He is JFK's grandson. He is running for Congress. He is, in my opinion, fucking deranged. Sorry, I know you don't swear on the T on the Charlie Kirk show, but we do here on the MK Show. As you know, there. He's, I really think, an insane person. I think he's not. Well, There were reports that his mother, Caroline Kennedy, Schlossberg really did not want him to run for Congress, which is what he's doing in New York. And I think it's because she knows her son is nuts and probably deserves to be locked up in a facility as opposed to running for Congress. Kind of a different place you can get locked up for being a nut. He's come out and gotten the white glove treatment, including by Maureen Dowd at the New York Times, who completely whitewashed his insane social media history. Where. I'm just going to give you a couple of examples. There is one here where he is. Do we have it? Yeah, this is a video. Not it. I don't think it's a sound bite exactly. But he's doing the Nazi salute over and over and over again. Sat 22. Watch.

[B]

Yo, yo, check this out. Yo, check this out.

[A]

There's. There's one.

[B]

Yo, check this out.

[A]

Four, five, six. Didn't, didn't we all just live through a fake Nazi salute gate with Elon Musk literally just saying thank you. My heart goes out to you that it was non stop covered by the left, left wing media for days, for weeks. This totally whitewashed. Not an issue for the New York Times nor anyone else. All they hear is a Kennedy who hates righties. He's in. Thoughts on it?

[C]

Go ahead, Blake.

[D]

I just, I'm very tired of the Kennedy thing. It just, it feel okay. I think I'm the youngest one here. It feels like this strange boomer artifact to be like continuously obsessed with this family because of its, you know, presidential figure who disappeared from, you know, the scene 60 plus years ago. @ least this guy doesn't have the Kennedy name. I think that will make it less bad.

[A]

And also it's going to come out.

[D]

At least in that video. He seemed kind of weird.

[A]

It's going to be Jack Kennedy Schlossberg, which is not his name, but. Go ahead, Blake. Sorry.

[D]

No, actually that not. You shouldn't be giving them these free ideas. They'll probably do that now, but I guess that also maybe we have more videos on him. I'm not super familiar with his, his work, but he doesn't seem as charismatic. He doesn't exactly seem to have Kennedy magic.

[A]

He seems a little twitchy, disturbed. Here, let me just give you one. We're going to go through a few, but he's disturbed. I'm going to play one couple, couple of them, but I just want to. And you're going to really have to forgive me for this. He. Let's see, he's 32. Years old. He posted on January 20th of this year a piece, whatever, a post in which he said he was making fun of RFK Jr. His uncle. No, his cousin, and the Maha movement. And he wrote, I will have a Maha energy ball. He proposed a recipe I'm reading here from the Free Beacon that called for several ingredients, including, again, please forgive me for this. This is his words. These are 2 ounces of Jew blood, Ashkenazi, not Sephardic. Baked at 300 degrees until totally dry like your wife wrote Schlossberg, a Yale graduate with law and business degrees from Harvard. He went on to say that, hold on, he was calling for them to add, again, forgive me, semen into the energy recipe. I think he used the word jizz. And this is the man who gets this treatment from MSNBC when announcing his run. Sat 18. But Trump has been seemingly obsessed with dismantling your family's legacy. He's declassified previously classified Kennedy assassination records. He's paved over the Rose Garden, which your grandmother last renovated. He recently raised the Jacqueline Kennedy Garden. With the demolition of the East Wing, he sought to modify the Kennedy Center. And he also even wants to repaint Air Force One so that it no longer has, as he's put it, a Jackie Kennedy color. What do you think Trump's trying to accomplish here? And does it make your decision to run for this seat that much more urgent?

[B]

My grandfather's legacy of service means a lot to me. It's not just my family's legacy. It's generations of Americans and New Yorkers who fought and sacrificed to build this country, and he is dismantling that legacy. He's so obsessed with the Kennedys and the Kennedy name and the Kennedy brand that he caged one and put it in his cabinet. A rabid dog in his cabinet, put a collar on my cousin, RFK Jr. And has him there barking, spreading lies and spreading misinformation.

[A]

Just see, he's just a normal guy. She's like, basically licking his feet and they're gonna try to whitewash this guy. His Nazi salutes, his comments about Jews, his comments about semen going into your average Maha energy drink, his constant mocking of very prominent women on the right, including yours truly, his bizarre, I don't know, weirdly sexual, half naked writhing that he's put on camera multiple times because he is deleting all of this from his social media feed as fast as humanly possible.

[C]

Yeah, my take on this guy is that he's. He's a. He's a left wing troll. He's you know, he's. I will tell you, he's wildly popular on social media, at least before he deleted, I guess, his. His TikTok account, I. Our team here kept telling me how popular he was on the left with young people. So he's got this kind of shock jock, troll Persona. But here for me, yeah, he's crass. He's completely out of bounds on so many things, Megan. But here for me is the real deal breaker for him. The way he's treated Bobby Kennedy Jr. Has been completely, completely, I believe, disqualifying. I genuinely cannot stand a person that would throw his own family member under the bus like that. He has no regard for any decency or etiquette or decorum, no class when it comes to how he's dealing with Bobby Kennedy. And I just. I find that beyond the pale. Candidly, I cannot imagine doing that to one of my family members. I would have disagreements with them maybe, yes, and we would deal with those in private. But the way he's treated him, calling him a rabid dog and barking for Trump. You and I both know, Megan, that he joined the Trump administration willingly. He saw an opportunity to advance things. He's very passionate about the Maha movement, and President Trump has honored that promise. And so I would think if you ask Bobby Kennedy, he's going to say he's really excited, really happy with the opportunity he's been given that Trump put him at the head of hhs. And to have one of his own family members and the entire Kennedy clan, by the way, just. I mean, it is an artifact of years past, and they've totally lost their shine. And for. Just to see how low they have fallen. It's like each generation gets continually less impressive, and he's just the latest iteration of that. It's really sad because America would do well to have proud families that we can look up to as models.

[A]

They're not one of them.

[C]

As exemplars of the country, and they just completely debasing the brand.

[A]

Yeah, they are not one of them. I'm old enough to remember, Blake, when the Democrats had a complete meltdown, saying that Trump had mocked a reporter who has a disability in that. That clip where Trump kind of does this with his hand and he's like, imitating a reporter. Trump denied that he was mocking a disability, but they freaked. They still raised that as evidence that Trump is a bad person. Here's Jack Schlossberg talking about his own cousin who has spasmodic dysphonia, which is why RFKJ talks the way he does in Sat 20.

[B]

Hey, everybody. I, I'm trying to figure out the right president to get Donald Trump, Trump for the inauguration. So I found a really rare animal and killed it and I'm gonna give it to him.

[A]

So we no longer care about Nazi salutes and we no longer care about mocking people with disabilities. We definitely don't care about misogynistic attacks on women. What do they care about?

[D]

You know, just the fact that he was attacking, as you note, his own, his own relative stands out because obviously Trump can be pretty combative. But one thing that always stood out to me is Trump had his. His sister was a federal judge and was appointed by a Democrat. And they never really went out of their way to bash each other or hate on each other. And they like that was Trump actually respects, surprisingly some like, old fashioned decorum about how you're supposed to behave and that even that has like fallen by the wayside. And it's a perfect encapsulation because the left will write those essays. How you should disown your uncle who says bad things at Thanksgiving. How you should break off all contact with your family member. A hugely popular piece of advice that people on the left will give each other. Oh, if your parents are maga, they're toxic. Cut them out of your life. I saw one that went viral the other day where it was someone saying, I'm so disgusted by my, my. One of my family members. I think it was either. I think it was his brother. They're here. He and his wife are MAGA supporters, but I can't break contact with them because I don't know how to drive and they drive me to my doctor's appointments. The cognitive dissonance going on there is so extreme. And I guess now that sort of thing is primed to get into Congress.

[C]

And Megan, to your point, the fact that the left wing media is going to whitewash it, they are willing for a Kennedy to do anything to help get him elected, to make him a big star because a, they're desperate for stars. They're desperate for white men that are stars, candidly. And you know, I am very happy that he's got the last name Schlossberg, which is a hard to say and it's not that attractive of a last name. I'm just gonna say it. And he doesn't deserve the name Kennedy. But like, you know, they are willing to do whatever they can and throw out all their standards all the same, you know, high bar that they would hold a conservative to they don't care about that because what they ultimately care is about power. They care about getting Trump. This guy's going to be a rabid dog to fight Trump. And by the way, can I just say in that one clip, Megan, that I have never perceived or observed that President Trump is. Is obsessed with the Kennedys or dismantling the Kennedy legacy I've ever even heard him talk about.

[D]

One of the best things about that, actually, I want to hit is they're describing the Kennedy legacy. And the Kennedy legacy is like architectural features of the White House, the color pattern on Air Force One. It is the most superficial elements of a legacy. You'd think, what would the legacy of the Trump administration be? It might be a secure border. It might be radically changed foreign policy. And then the Kennedy legacy is, you know, the East Wing of the White House, which needed to be expanded until suddenly getting rid of it was. I think they called it the heart of America. The New York Times did.

[A]

Yeah. It's basically Jackie Kennedy and her amazing style. The we gotta go on now to less pleasant things. Which brings me to Katie Couric and her exchange with John Fetterman. I think I speak for all of us when we say, you kind of wanted to smack her. We wouldn't. We wouldn't smack her, but we kind of wanted to smack her when we watched this incredibly obnoxious exchange. It's so obnoxious, you guys. I almost never run a sound bite more than one minute on the program. It's just my. My own rule. I think they go on too long. If you do this one is three minutes. And there's a reason for that. Sit back, buckle up, and I don't know if I can say enjoy, but watch. Here we go. Do you think that flag should have been flown at half staff? Do you think his body should have been flown on Air Force Two? Do you think he should have posthumously be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom? I think some people felt that that was the. Perhaps over the top in terms of mourning someone like Charlie Kirk. How did you feel about that?

[E]

I'd say that that was his choice and his prerogative, and that was really entirely up to him.

[A]

Did you have any issues now, in hindsight over some of the things that Charlie Kirk said and some of the rhetoric he used during his life?

[E]

I didn't agree with. With much of it. I didn't closely followed his specific kinds of views, but I did.

[A]

I'm sure you learned about them after his death, though.

[E]

No, I haven't done a Deep dive on it. You know, I described, I mean, we've all seen that terrible video. Perhaps if you've seen the actual video. I have. And it's like appalling. And that's part of the political violence. And from what I'm saying, it's, it's like that's unacceptable. And engaging in a debate and views I strongly disagree on, that's part of the American democracy. And for me, it's, that would never justify what's happened. And I just chose not to take the opportunity to argue his views after, after children left his father in the most violent public way. I mean, so that's, I would say the equivalent, the equivalent on the left might be, say, Mr. Piker, I strongly disagree with his views, but I would, I'm appalled if something like that happened to him. Oh, my God. I mean, that's, you know, like, we have to, we have to disagree in better ways where, you know, you're going to solve it by shooting people. And that's why the kinds of rhetoric, we have to turn the temperature down. Extreme rhetoric makes it easier for extreme reactions or to justify them.

[A]

I think some people might say Charlie Kirk's rhetoric was extreme. You know, I think that's the conversation that happened. People condemned political violence, but they also felt a great deal of discomfort with his language suggesting that these kinds of words lead to violence. I don't know, I'm, I'm just kind of sharing my observations as I saw the conversations unfold.

[E]

Yeah, I, I, I agree. I mean, I think we agree that we probably didn't agree with much of what he said. But, and I think we, I'm sure we both agree that you shouldn't shoot people, you know, and you shouldn't execute them in public. And, and that's, I think that's two things must be true, that free speech. I'm an absolute free speech guy. And you have the right to say these things. And you definitely also have the right not to get shot by sharing your views.

[A]

Five times she tried to get him to condemn Charlie. Five times. And five times he kept going back to, this is not the time. You don't start condemning a man's rhetoric after he's just been assassinated. All you do is condemn the political violence. And she couldn't stop herself. And then she ultimately ends by suggesting, quote, these kinds of words lead to violence. Unbelievable. Her insensitivity. What do you make of it, Andrew?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, she's, she's doing the meme like she's doing it where she's like, you had this coming. She's suggesting that Charlie Kirk had this coming and that something that he said was somehow justified the shooter's actions. And I find it appalling. I find it really disgusting. And the fact that she's so out of touch and by the way, you gotta say, like, the redemption arc of John Fetterman is truly remarkable. I actually tweeted about this. I said, thank you, John Fetterman, for the moral clarity here. We need more of it. Again, I go back to what I said earlier, Megan. I am very pro having a non insane opposition party in this country. And it's like, we've got John Fetterman. It's like he's the guy. He's the guy willing to, like, take. Take the barbs when it comes to a number of issues. But I just find it really appalling. And this is an observation Charlie used to make all the time. It's like, you take these people out of the box, like, you know, the TV set, you know, whatever. Katie Couric, FORMER CAREER and they fail time and time again. They become uninteresting, they become you. They be exposed for the frauds that they are. You are one of the ones, Megan, that was able. Has been able to grow and expand and I think even become more popular getting outside of the system, outside of the network system. And you've done it. You're one of the few. Most people, they kind of branch off and they try and do podcasts and they totally expose what hacks they are and how uninteresting and unimpressive they are. And Katie Couric is. Is sadly one of those people.

[A]

It's amazing. Her hate Blake. You listen to him. You know, he's like, I chose not to argue his views right after he was killed so violently. You know, we. We have to disagree in better ways. His rhetoric was extreme. People felt a great deal of discomfort with his rhetoric. She. She just can't get past Charlie's words, which first of all is wrong factually, but second of all, is irrelevant when the man's just been assassinated.

[D]

Well, no, but she wasn't saying it. She said some people might say that his rhetoric was extreme. I just. I hate that. Okay, you're not on network news anymore, Katie. You don't need all of this extremely fake neutrality, which you also deliver in this weird little vocal fry voice. It's just. It's so grating. It's so aggravating. It's so played out. If you think Charlie was extreme, if you think he deserved it.

[A]

Just.

[D]

Just say it, Katie. Other people have said it. Other, more popular people will say it. And just this fakery, this fraud nature of it is one of the most aggravating aspects.

[C]

Well, can I also say, Megan, that, you know, we did a whole episode on the Charlie Kirk show debunking most of the viral kind of lies that were going around about Charlie, especially from leftists, right? And so I'm sure she consumed some of those, and she didn't see any of the context that some of those clips were taken out of context. They were cherry picked. They were. They were edited to make them look so egregious. And it's like we. We are living in two different algorithms. And so, like, I want to, like, shake her and just be like, katie, there's more than what meets the eye. You obviously are believing lies about Charlie and smears against Charlie that are on, like, you.

[A]

Take. Take Don Lemon, okay? He and I don't get along on anything. He's attacked me many times. I've attacked him many times. He's a human being on this earth. I pray for him. I don't want anything bad to happen to Don Lemon. God forbid, God forbid anything were to happen to him. I would never, never, never run to the camera and talk about his rhetoric. There is absolutely no excuse for political violence against a pundit. Are you kidding me? And even to have the discussion so soon after Charlie died, it. It's so disrespectful. And what it's telegraphing is she favored it. She. At some level, she liked it. It's not totally dissimilar from the Jack Schlossberg conversation. The reason they're whitewashing all of his terrible comments is they liked them, they enjoyed them, they want him to keep doing it.

[C]

And by the way, Megan, it's. It's whitewashing on purpose. And this is why I got so upset about the Jimmy Kimmel thing when he lied about who killed Charlie, because he tried to make it out to be some MAGA supporter or whatever. What that communicates to the world, what Katie Couric's communicating to the world, that if you do these heinous acts, if you commit violence against people that had it coming, because we don't like the things they say or their ideas, that we're going to whitewash it and we're going to celebrate it. And you saw this also with Matt Mangioni, where you had. You had, like, Taylor Lorenz saying that he was hot and that, like, he was somehow, you know, attacking an evil system. And therefore, this United Healthcare CEO had it coming. This justification and this media whitewash that comes in after the fact, I think is just as damaging in some ways, if not more, because it's sending a signal to a bunch of crazy people that we're gonna celebrate you. We're gonna laud your actions in this public way if you do these heinous acts. And that's truly disgusting. And it's like Blake and I used to say it in the immediate aftermath. It deserves repeating. It's like, let's make political assassinations taboo again. Can we do that? Can we do at least that?

[A]

Speaking of Taylor Lorenz, here she is. Just this week, I think it was doing an interview with Jack Mack, who's just launched a podcast series. I think he's from barstool sports called Journalism. And here's what she told him. This is this week. Sat 30.

[C]

So we're in Central Park. This is the place that Luigi Mangione fled to and then got away.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[C]

You famously have said that you felt joy on that day.

[A]

I felt joy that we were acknowledging the barbarity of our healthcare system.

[B]

So do.

[C]

Okay. And do you.

[A]

I stand by that 100%.

[B]

And you feel, Joe, you felt joy.

[C]

There was memes being shared in your group chat. A CEO has been dead. And, like, you also called. I think you called Luigi.

[A]

Is he a hero in your mind? I've definitely never said that. That. What I would say is that, yeah, I've definitely never said that in my life.

[C]

A morally good man.

[A]

Definitely never said that. I said his supporters view him as a morally good man.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I don't think we actually know much about his morality or kind of really much about his ideology. I think he's a reactionary.

[B]

So do you think he's, like, a good person?

[A]

I have no idea. We don't really know. I would say bad.

[C]

We can't be, like, going out and.

[A]

Shooting people right on the street, obviously. But I think, like, we just don't even know enough about his. His ideology and his motivation. Okay, Blake, she. Who. Who could know? I mean, how could we figure out whether Luigi is a good person?

[D]

First of all, I just have to commend that. That host for getting Taylor Lorenz to go outside without a mask on. That. I'm not sure I've seen that in a while. But also the big picture and the thing that overlaps with Katie and so many of these others who justify what this happened, there is nothing more toxic and more damaging than telling people, you can be cruel, you can do evil things. And actually, it's not even not a bad thing. It's actively a good thing. You should feel righteous while doing it. You should actually feel bad if you don't do it. And so much of modern leftism is essentially about deliberately stoking that. Stoking envy, stoking hate, stoking outright violence, and saying these things are actually good. And we'll see that boil over sometimes. It's why I think the October 7th terrorist attacks were so evocative for so many people, because you saw BLM groups in Chicago just overtly praise it, praise people going door to door, murdering civilians, murdering children, and saying that was a righteous thing. You should feel awesome that that happened. And you'll see it here in America. You saw that during the Floyd riots in 2020. You'll see it. I mean, you see it with Luigi Imagioni, and of course, you're seeing it with the man who allegedly murdered Charlie, that they'll take a completely heinous act, a completely indefensible act, a thing we all know is heinous and indefensible, and say it is heroic, it is good. And that's really intoxicating for people or even to debate.

[A]

The person's point is to invite more political violence. It's not that we can never discuss health insurance again because they executed the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. But you don't do it right after. Or you play right into the assassin's motivations and his goals, and you encourage another one. Same thing about Charlie. You talk about his violent rhetoric, which is a lie. Okay, put that to the side, though. You started talk. You're talking about, like, what. What did Charlie stand for? What did he say right after he's assassinated by somebody who hated his views? You play right into it and you encourage more of it. Not to mention Hunter Biden, who. I'm sure you guys saw this, but he's got thoughts on Charlie's murder. Here is what he said in Sat 23.

[B]

That is the narrative that is being spun by the right. I can think of another one that this kid, if it was this kid, was a gripper, and he is a Nick Fuentes accolade. They want to create chaos. And so it didn't matter whether you. You shot Charlie Kirk or whether you shot the Charlie Kirk's equivalent on the left. And I don't know who that would be. Probably someone like Hassan Pico. So there's an answer. He wasn't necessarily shot for his beliefs. He was shot because he was one of the loudest people speaking out there. I don't know why Charlie Kirk was shot. Candace Owens says Charlie Kirk was shot because he was about to disavow Israel. Okay. I don't know why Charlie Kirk was shot, but I do know this. It only served one group of people. Charlie Kirk's death maga.

[A]

Unbelievable. His death only served one group of people, maga, which, frankly, is the Jimmy Kimmel comment. In different dresses. In a different dress. It's the same thing. Like, this is something that's serving the MAGA wing. So, like, let's take a closer look at who actually murdered him. Wink, wink. Who stood to benefit. That's really what he's doing there, Andrew.

[C]

Yeah, and it's. First of all, yeah, it's untrue. And I encourage the whole, like, tendency of the left to say that all of these political assassins, except for, I guess, Luigi Maggione, are of the right. Right. This instinct is bizarre. It's crazy to me. I. I encourage everybody in your audience, Megan, to check out a guy named Turkey Tom. He's done a. He did a deep dive on some Discord chats.

[A]

We did. We did check that out. We almost went to air with it, but we couldn't shore it up to the point where we were comfortable with the reporting. But he did a deep dive on Tyler Robinson and his weird furry trans lover.

[C]

Yes. And I've been credibly informed, Meghan, that those are authentic. And so, you know, feel. Feel free to keep diving into them, because I believe that they are authentic and it's a real window into the weird lsd, thc, vaping, incessant drinking, alcoholism, furry fetish, you know, paranoid schizophrenia of this world that they were inhabiting with. Yeah, furry fetishes and all kinds of stuff. This is black market hrt. So this was a very bizarre world that they were living in. And so for Hunter to kind of wade into this water is. I find it confusing. I don't actually know what he's getting at.

[A]

But secondly, I'm telling you what he's getting at. He's pulling a Jimmy Kimmel. I don't know who killed Charlie. You know, maybe it was this group. MAGA is the one who stood to gain. They're the ones, quote, benefiting. It's a clear implication that this guy was MAGA and, like, was trying to help the MAGA movement by having a martyr. I mean, that's obviously what he's suggesting without having the balls to actually come Right out and say it.

[C]

Yeah, well, exactly. And it's funny because if you're actually in right wing circles or if you're paying attention into the conversation online, everybody's worried about the infighting or the fractures within the conservative movement in the wake of Charlie. Like, this has not benefited maga. Charlie. Charlie was such a force of nature for MAGA that keeping the coalition together, keeping the disparate tribes singing from the same hymnal. If you were, if you will. So a. It doesn't make any sense. But yeah, to your point, they want to whitewash it. They want to make it look like political violence is a thing of the right and they want to look like there was some grand conspiracy here. It's really disgusting and I'm glad you showed me that. I had heard about this clip, but I hadn't seen it yet. So I, you know, this is, this is my first reaction to it, but I find it really, really disgusting, this tendency to do it same.

[A]

He really should have resisted the urge and the and the podcast host should have resisted the urge to join in, which is what he did. All right, stand by. We're gonna take a quick break, guys, and we're gonna be right back. There's a lot more to cover. Andrew and Blake, stay with us. You know about fomo, right? Fear of missing out. But listen up. Don't miss out on protecting your future. For around the same price per month as one of your streaming services, you can break the FOMO cycle and secure your family's future by finding life [e-mail] select' takes the guesswork out of finding the right life insurance policy. You don't have to sort through dozens of confusing options on your own. Instead, one of their licensed agents will find the right policy at the right price for you. Comparing prices from top, most trusted insurance companies to find a policy that fits your health, your lifestyle and your budget and they work for you for free. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%. [e-mail] Megan save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] Megan today to get started cooking Thanksgiving is high stakes. It feels like one dried out turkey can ruin it all. I would know. That's why I love chef IQ sense. This wireless cooking thermometer takes the guesswork out of holiday cooking. USDA says Turkey's gotta hit 165 degrees Fahrenheit to be safe to eat. Your eyes can deceive. But Chef IQ ensures you hit that perfect temp every time. Whether you are roasting, grilling, pan, searing, even smoking the turkey, it's got you covered. It could not be easier. You just insert the sensor, tell the app what you're cooking, then sit back and relax. Chef IQ sense tells you when to flip, take it off the heat and even how long to let it rest. No more oven peeking, no more dried out turkey. Just perfectly cooked meals every time. And it works for steaks, chicken, fish, whatever you're cooking, you will wonder how you ever cooked without it. Plus, it's the ultimate gift. Perfect for seasoned cooks, kitchen rookies and everyone in between. Now get 30% off site wide with code [e-mail] that's chefiq.com promo code mk.

[B]

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[B]

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[C]

Free offer details apply.

[A]

Andrew Colvitt and Blake Neff of the Charlie Kirk show and Turning Point are back with me now. Guys, you mentioned it before we went to break and I do want to follow up on it. You know, the conservative movement is, I don't know how to say it's breaking in two right now, but it's definitely going through some growing pains over the issue of Israel. You guys have been watching it. So have I. I've been right in the middle of it, all of us. I have wondered to myself how Charlie would have navigated this, because if there's one group Charlie knew better than anyone, it was young people. And he saw the split on this issue of Israel coming amongst the young folks before most, since he was so in touch with them. And so, and yet he has, as you guys know, Turningpoint has gotten many Jewish donors who did not feel as the young group feels and wanted him and Turning Point to be much more supportive of Israel. And, and now that that's only gotten worse, you know, the past couple of months, like, it's such a tricky issue. And I have asked myself many times, I wonder how Charlie would be handling this. What do you guys think?

[D]

Yeah, it's an issue that Charlie thought about a lot, talked about a lot. And you're correct, he saw the sort of crackups that we're having today coming several years in advance because he spoke to young people a lot. He read the emails they sent in. He could see the polls. He always would look at what the polls were saying about what sentiment was, and he would talk about this in private, too. So you mentioned donors and all of that. He would talk to our supporters who were Jewish or just generally big Israel supporters. And he would say, one thing you guys need to understand is young people are a lot less supportive of Israel. And he would try to chart out, I think, a viable future on that issue where he would say, guys, we have to be able to make the case that supporting Israel is an America first position. And if we can't do that, we may have to choose a more moderate path forward where it might be we don't give them as much financial support, but we might still give them moral support. We can still back them up in other ways. But that a big reason, a big thing driving a lot of the anti Israel sentiment was when you have overt financial support going to such a degree to another country. And he was always trying to chart that out. Ways we were discussing that, even up to the point of his assassination. What are arguments we could make towards people who are hostile to Israel and also what can we make to supporters of it to try to hold the coalition together? Because.

[A]

But it's very hard, Blake. Trust me when I tell you, it is very hard. If you want to make friends for both sides of that discussion, there is one side that will insist you not, you know, I mean, the sort of tucker, more isolationist wing of the Republican Party that's been highly critical of Israel is now, according to the more polite people who are neocani, no longer allowed. You're not allowed to have that discussion. And it's one of the things, you know, I've been trying to make space for both sides to discuss it. I know you guys have too. It's very infuriating because it's just the one side who says you're not allowed to let that other side in.

[D]

Well, so what he would say is, he would say what he wouldn't have room for. And what he would say is he has no room for actual anti Semitism, Drew hate, as he called it, no room for it anywhere on the right, because we're not a hate based movement. And he would also say, okay, we are an American political movement. You must clearly articulate our political principles in terms of making America the number one priority and the American people the number one priority. And so he would emphasize those key points and then he would talk about. I think what he would often emphasize is, guys, it's a huge problem if attacking Israel or criticizing Israel is some sort of top issue on the right. That's why he talked about Islam so much in the last few months of his life, he was saying, guys, the clear threat to Western civilization that is unfolding, that is spreading across Europe and coming into America is Islamization and also, you know, the Mamdanism, the various third world resentful ideologies. And those are the things that are poisoning the West. And we absolutely need a united front against those things. And we should be able to unite on that issue. And we can't allow something like criticizing Benjamin Netanyahu to break apart the coalition on when there's things that are far more important for us to be worrying about.

[C]

Yeah, and I agree with that. Charlie was very much, I'm an American. I should be allowed to criticize my own government. I should be allowed to criticize other governments, even if that government is Israel. Right. And I think what, you know, I was a part of a focus group with Charlie at the Student Action Summit in July. You were there, Megan. And you know, it was an interesting thing because we asked these kids, you know, what are your feelings about Israel? And these, these were kids from all over the country, different geographies, different types of schools, Stanford to, you know, state colleges and everything in between. And most of them were not antagonistic per se to Israel. They just wanted the freedom to be able to, to have opinions that, you know, were not orthodox American foreign policy, you know, for, for the last 60 years. Right. So they wanted the freedom to be able to say and believe those things without being anti Semite. And that was the space that Charlie was carving out, basically saying, you can have these opinions and you can still be a part of the club. You don't have to feel a certain way about Israel to be part of America first or be part of MAGA or part of the conservative movement. And so that was the course that he was charting. And I think we're still, you know, devoted to that and committed to that here at Turning Point and at the Charlie Kirk show. Because we don't want to say, hey, you can be a part of America first if you, if you feel a certain way about another country.

[A]

As long as you love Charlie had a picture. As long as you totally support Israel.

[C]

Exactly. That, that, that makes no sense, I think on so many levels now Charlie had certain opinions about Israel and he would go through point by point. I actually did a tweet on this this week, Megan, about, I saw it and I showed four examples of Charlie working through very patiently with students, their concerns about the US Israel relationship. But he didn't start resorting to ad hominems. He didn't resort to name calling or saying that you're a bad person. It was like, hey, we're going to go point by point by point through your concerns and I'm going to agree with you where I can. And yeah, we probably shouldn't, you know, have foreign involvement in the United States government. But, but, you know, he basically had a very moral, morally clear stance that, listen, we are for America, America first, and you can have a wide ranging opinion on this matter. And let's talk about it.

[A]

Andrew, let me ask you about how Turning Point is doing because you were updating us for a while in like, the number of chapters that kids have opened. There were, I think, a total of 2000 chapters between high schools and colleges at the time Charlie was killed. And then there was a huge surge after his assassination by young people wanting to be a part of the group. Where do things stand now?

[C]

Yeah, I think there was 2,200 altogether, approximately when Charlie was killed. And yeah, we had a surge of inquiries. So that was, a lot of people were talking about that it was 136,000 inquiries to start new chapters or something. Incredible. It was just an insane number. I think at this point, the starting chapters is actually quite a tough process, but we're, we're doing 50 a day right now. 50 new chapters are starting across the country, either a high school or a college campus every day. Which, if you know the amount of work that that takes to start those chapters, you, you understand how insane that is. And the, the field team is doing such incredible heroic work and the pulling off that, the tour. You have to understand, a lot of people don't, don't. I don't, I don't think it put this together. That field team that did those tours that you were a part of, that Glenn Beck was a part of, that Tucker was a part of so many of these governors. It was the same team that was at uvu and they were there when Charlie was assassinated and they kept that tour going out of just sheer sense of duty and honor to continue Charlie's legacy, you know. And when we wrapped that tour up, we told most of them, like, please take some time off. You deserve this. Like, go like you need to take time for yourself and to heal and to grieve. But they, they, they, every single one of them, Megan said, we're gonna keep this going because we love Charlie and we need to keep the mission going. And I don't know, I, I, I just, I, there's not words enough to express my gratitude and My admiration for them because of just how difficult that was. And, you know, we had a meeting with somebody here at the office. Yeah, yeah, we had a meeting with.

[A]

Somebody at the office, clearly still in mourning, who were there at Virginia Tech putting on this event, like, you know, we gotta do business as usual for Charlie. Go ahead, finish your thoughts. Sorry.

[C]

Yeah, no. And, you know, we met with one of them here at the office after the tour wrapped. And it was, you know, tears in her eyes, and, you know, you could tell she was still grieving, she was still hurting, and she. She's one of the leaders of the tour. And I was just. Like I said, I can't express to you enough how proud I am of that team of her. And I hope they take their time and they come back stronger and just understand what they accomplished, because it was truly heroic. And I think our chapter count, though, Megan, just because you did ask about that, I think we're Approximately at about 6,000, if not 6, just shy of that now. So the number keeps growing every day, but it's truly amazing, and we're going to keep pushing until we have a high school chapter at every high school in the country, and that's 23,000. So we're pretty much. Pretty much maxed out at the college level at this point. But high school, we're going to keep charging ahead. That was one of Charlie's last real mandates to the organization. We want to be in every Winner Club America, which is our high school grand at every high school in America.

[A]

Let's do what the left does and get them while they're young. We've seeded the fight for the hearts and minds of young people for too long. And that was what Charlie Kirk saw when he was 18 years old and got this brilliant idea for a company called Turning Point. They're not going down without a fight on these campuses. Blake. There was an incident at Purdue University Northwest with a professor interrupting a Turning Point meeting. There was this incident from former Professor David Kozak calling Turning Point USA supporters Nazis at Fort Lewis College on November 7th. Here's that. South 37.

[B]

Go on, fascists. Go on, Nazi lovers.

[A]

Thank you. Giving the finger to the camera. You're a pleasant human.

[B]

The Nazis.

[A]

Jesus loves you.

[B]

Oh, he does you. And he loves Nazis, too, huh?

[A]

No. Jesus loves everybody. Christ our God loves everybody. God loves everybody.

[B]

I hope you have a very blessed day, sir.

[A]

Look at this toddler, Blake.

[D]

It really is.

[A]

It's.

[D]

It's what we were talking about earlier. When you take an ideology that says, take your Worst impulses go up, be rude to people, curse them out, attack people. I mean, we've seen far worse from professors. We've seen them rip down our displays. We've seen them basically attack students. And of course, we also see it when they celebrate Charlie's murder, which plenty of them have at this point. It is an ideology that embraces all of your worst personal temptations and says indulge them, repeat them, marinate in them, hate other people, attack other people, hurt other people. And it tells you that is righteous. All of those things you want to do, they're good things. You should feel bad if you don't do them. And the end result is you have lunatics who feel entitled to attack whoever they want. And they're shocked. They're shocked that other people would not want to do that.

[A]

A bunch of young kids who are in mourning, by the way. Absolutely no sensitivity. He's another Katie Couric, you guys. We're heading to Glendale, Arizona this weekend on Saturday night, the last night of our Megyn Kelly Live tour. And we'll be interviewing your new CEO, Erica Kirk. As you both know, I hope I see you there. I salute you for all the great work you've been doing. I'm sending you all my love and support.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Thank you very much.

[C]

We'll see you in Glendale.

[A]

Good. Good. I hope so. Andrew, I'm going to give you a big hug when I see you. Lots of love. And folks, if you would like to join us, this is the last weekend of the tour where we have two stops in California, Thursday and Friday, Bakersfield and Annandale. And then close out the tour on Saturday night with the one and only Erica Kirk. You can get the [e-mail] thank you for listening. We're back tomorrow with our friend Link Lauren and more. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.