wavePod

Don Lemon ARRESTED Under Klan and FACE Acts, with Michael Knowles, Mike Davis, Bill Shipley, and Howard Blum | Ep. 1242 - The Megyn Kelly Show | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Back to The Megyn Kelly Show

Don Lemon ARRESTED Under Klan and FACE Acts, with Michael Knowles, Mike Davis, Bill Shipley, and Howard Blum | Ep. 1242

The Megyn Kelly Show

Fri Jan 30 2026

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show | Ep. 1242 — Don Lemon ARRESTED Under Klan and FACE Acts

Date: January 30, 2026
Host: Megyn Kelly
Guests: Mike Davis, Bill Shipley, Michael Knowles, Howard Blum

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the breaking news of former CNN host Don Lemon's arrest following his participation in the ICE protest-turned-interruption at City’s Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. The discussion explores the legal charges against Lemon, including violations of the Ku Klux Klan Act and the federal FACE Act, as well as the wider implications for journalists, religious freedoms, and political protest. Additional segments cover reactions from different sides, the handling of the legal process, and a later discussion on new developments in the Idaho student murders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Don Lemon’s Arrest: Charges and Context

Incident Summary: Lemon was arrested for entering a church during service as part of a disruptive protest targeting ICE, allegedly collaborating with protest leaders and interfering with worshippers’ rights.
Federal Charges: He faces charges under two statutes:
- Ku Klux Klan Act (Conspiracy Against Rights): Preventing citizens from exercising civil rights, here interfering with the right to worship (00:21).
- FACE Act: Criminalizes intentional injury, intimidation, or interference with lawful exercise of religious freedom at places of worship (00:21-01:30).
Key Details About the Event: Lemon and others allegedly blocked entrances/exits, escalated confrontation with parishioners, and were aware of the distress caused (03:50, 06:49, 15:15).

“He made the colossal blunder of doing it into a house of worship in the middle of a religious service…now you’re talking about rock solid rights that the churchgoers have under the Constitution and under federal statutes not to be bothered while they’re worshiping.”
— Megyn Kelly (10:37)

2. Journalism as a Legal Defense?

Not a Protection: Multiple panelists vehemently rejected the claim that Lemon was acting as a passive journalist, arguing he was an active, knowing participant (09:40–11:00, 26:54, 29:03, 46:49).
Lemon’s own livestream and statements from the day revealed prior knowledge, participation in planning, and a focus on self-promotion for YouTube rather than objective reporting.

“Journalists do not have the First Amendment right to violate federal law. That is exactly what Don Lemon and his co-conspirators did here.”
— Mike Davis (26:54)

“Don Lemon’s not there as a member of the press…he was capturing what they did for their benefit.”
— Bill Shipley (38:50)

Host’s Anecdotes: Kelly shares examples from her career showing journalistic privilege does not extend to trespass or criminal conduct (09:30–11:00).

3. The Events Inside the Church

Multiple audio and video clips discussed on-air showed Lemon interacting as an embedded participant, seeking “raw, unscripted” content, directly confronting parishioners and the pastor, and actively encouraging subscriptions and engagement for his online brand (14:03, 16:18, 18:14, 22:16, 23:08).

“He fully intended to walk in there, to walk down the aisle, to interrupt the church service in progress. You fully knew. You 100% knew. The payoff to you was different from the payoff to Nakima. Doesn’t make your behavior any more lawful.”
— Megyn Kelly (17:15)

Terrorizing Effects: Affidavits and victim statements cited weeping children, injuries, and deep trauma to those present (06:49–07:20).

4. Prosecutorial and Judicial Handling

The indictment was initially delayed by a magistrate perceived as conflicted; prosecutors eventually succeeded in bringing the case before a grand jury, which swiftly found probable cause (02:40–05:00, 46:49–49:00).

5. Panel Analysis: Legal, Political, and Cultural Implications

Legal Takeaways

Grand Jury: The panel clarifies the procedural legitimacy and the strengthened case against Lemon after additional evidence and witnesses.
Double Standard Debate: Echoed concern over whether FACE Act violations are equitably prosecuted across political divides (28:19, 34:20).
First Amendment Boundaries: Discussion that press freedom does not constitute immunity from criminal law, especially in protected spaces like churches (29:03, 55:21, 64:17).

Political/Cultural Framing

Accusations and Defenses: Outcry from left-wing/Journos arguing the charges are an attack on the press/Narrative of Lemon as a political target because he is “a gay black man” and a critic of Trump (44:54, 81:04).
Rebuttal: Panelists and Kelly repeatedly argue the facts and law are on the prosecution’s side, not politics.

“You cannot use free speech as a justification to commit additional crimes. You cannot claim that your status as a journalist…gives you some kind of blanket immunity to break the law.”
— Michael Knowles (64:17)

Potential Precedent: Concerns aired regarding journalistic exceptions and what this case might signal for future law enforcement.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Don Lemon, on livestream as events unfold:
“This is an operation that is secret… You’re going to watch it live unfold here on the Don Lemon Show. There’s a reason they have so many white people here… because of the operation that they’re doing today.” (14:03)
Megyn Kelly, critiquing Lemon’s defense:
“I mean, in all my years covering the Westboro Baptist Church or Code Pink or the Women’s March, I never joined… Never. I never served coffee, donuts. I never said good when they were telling me about their plans. Never. I never gave them any assistance or aid whatsoever because that would be crossing an ethical line for a journalist.” (60:03)
Don Lemon, inside the church, justifying disruption:
“It’s uncomfortable and traumatic for the people here, but again… that’s what protesting is about. And so…” (23:47)
Debate over Lemon’s intent and the scope of protest:
“He didn’t just stumble onto this news story. He rode up there with the criminals, with the mob. He knew what they were going to do ahead of time.”
— Michael Knowles (58:45)

Timestamps of Important Segments

Don Lemon’s Arrest, Charges & Context: 00:21 – 06:49
Clips from the Protest & Analysis: 06:49 – 24:12
Panel Enters: Mike Davis & Bill Shipley, Legal Analysis: 26:54 – 49:00
Michael Knowles Reacts / Broader Implications for Press & Law: 52:11 – 70:09
Debate about Minneapolis/ICE Sanctuary City Politics: 87:18 – 93:17
Howard Blum Discusses Idaho Murders & Theory of Accomplice: 96:27 – 120:19

Additional Highlights

Defense & Reaction from the Left

Multiple journalists, media figures, and activists declared Lemon’s arrest an assault on the First Amendment and the free press, accusations the panel dismissed (62:48, 81:04).

“Here we are, black women, nonviolent, our only weapons are voices, being treated like Hannibal Lecter… Tell me, where is the justice in that?”
— Nakima Levy Armstrong (arrested protest leader) (78:28)

Panel & Host Response:
There’s no “journalist exception” to the FACE Act, and Lemon is neither a passive observer nor being targeted for his identity or ideology.

Parallels with Other Prosecutions

Discussion of how the FACE Act was previously used to arrest pro-life activists at abortion clinics. If those prosecutions are legitimate, so is this, say Kelly and Davis (28:19, 54:33, 70:09).

Ethical Journalism

Kelly draws distinction between “bearing witness” to illegal activity from a legal distance, versus direct participation, drawing on personal experiences (10:05 – 11:00, 60:03).

Brief Outline of Later Segments

Howard Blum: Idaho Student Murders Update (96:27–120:19)

Blum posits the newly settled case against Bryan Kohlberger may obscure the existence of a second perpetrator, based on evidence and the pace/intensity of the crime.
Discusses crime scene photos, questions about forensics (number of wounds, cleaning up, timeline), and newly surfaced defense expert testimony.
Reference to new DNA evidence, police reluctance to probe further, and gaps in the prosecution’s case.

Overall Tone & Presentation

Direct, Combative, and Unfiltered: Kelly and her panelists take an unequivocal, at times caustic stance, criticizing both Lemon and his defenders, while emphasizing strict legal and ethical boundaries.
Legal Authority: Guests like Davis and Shipley cite statutes, prior DOJ actions, and case law extensively to ground arguments.
Cultural Commentary: Frequent references to politics, identity, and media behavior, with a focus on double-standards and the “weaponization” of press freedom or protest rights as shields for criminal acts.
In-the-Weeds Legal and Crisis Reporting: The episode is both a rundown of timely breaking news and a wider commentary on the interplay of law, journalism, and American civil life.

Concluding Takeaway

The episode presents Don Lemon’s arrest not as a First Amendment crisis but as lawful and overdue accountability for clear, voluntary criminal conduct — regardless of his media status or political views. The discussion repeatedly emphasizes: no one, including journalists, is above the law, and the facts captured on video remove ambiguity from the case as it goes forward.

For full context and verbatim quotes, listeners are advised to review the relevant segments as timestamped above.

Loading summary...

Transcript

Don Lemon (0:00)

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start.

Megyn Kelly (0:03)

Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have.

Don Lemon (0:05)

To don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that.

Megyn Kelly (0:09)

Clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be.

Don Lemon (0:12)

A home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app.

Megyn Kelly (0:19)

Download today.

Megyn Kelly (0:21)

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. We woke up this Friday morning to some breaking news. Don Lemon, the former CNN host who now makes a fool of himself on his bizarre YouTube channel, has been arrested by the feds for his role in the now infamous agitator led ICE protest at City's Church in St. Paul, Minnesota during Sunday service on January 18th. According to reports, he's been charged with two federal conspiracy against rights, also known as the Ku Klux KL Act, a felony. That's where you violate somebody else's civil rights like that to attend a worship service. And he's been charged also with violating the Face act, which makes it a crime to, quote, by force or threat of force or by physical obstruction, intentionally injure, intimidate or interfere with, or attempt to injure, intimidate or interfere with any person lawfully exercising or seeking to exercise the First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship. Okay, so if he, in short, if he, by physical instruction, obstruction, interfered with someone's ability to go to church, he's in trouble. And that's what they're alleging, that he and others went into that church, they obstructed the aisles, they obstructed the entrances, the exits, the ability of parents to get downstairs to get their children who are in the preschool sort of waiting area, where that you put your kids to Sunday school while you're at the main church and that they did it knowing that they'd be interfering in the mass and still doing it anyway. That's what they did. Don Lemon knew what he was walking into. He knew exactly what he was walking into, and he did it anyway. Now he wants to claim that he was a journalist and that that's how somehow protects him. It doesn't. Okay, so I'm going to take you through right now why we think John Don Lemon was not behaving as a journalist that day. But it doesn't, it doesn't matter. At all, 100%. As a journalist, this is illegal. As a journalist, this is illegal. We're still waiting to get our hands on the indictment to see exactly what the DOJ is alleging. And I have been told by a reliable source that when we see the supporting affidavit, it will have far more detail than we got from the supporting affidavit for the first three who were charged. So I'm looking forward to seeing that. And don't forget, they. They brought this before a magistrate judge. Last week. That magistrate judge approved the charges against the three leaders of the protest, Nakima Levy Armstrong, Chantel Allen, and William Kelly. He's the most obnoxious of anyone screaming in the faces of children that their parents are Nazis. But at that time, that magistrate judge, who, don't forget his wife works for Keith Ellison, the attorney general leading the charge against ICE in Minneapolis, and his wife, the magistrate judge's wife, continues to like tweets opposing ice. That magistrate judge at the time declined to approve charges against Lemon. They tried to take that judge's decision up to his district court boss, the chief judge in the district, to try to get him to sign off on them. And while you have all these journalists out there now saying he said you could not bring these charges, the chief judge said you could not bring charges against Lemon. He said nothing of the kind. He said, what are you coming to me for? If you don't like the magistrate judge's decision, you can either improve your affidavit in support of charges and try again with the magistrate judge, or you do the other thing that federal prosecutors do if they want criminal charges brought, and that is go before a grand jury, which we understand was not in session last week. So they had to wait until this week, and that's exactly what they did yesterday. So you have idiots like Gretchen Carlson out there saying the chief judge, the district's judge, said these charges could not be brought. That's not correct. He specifically said, if you want to try again, improve the affidavit and go back to the magistrate judge, or just go before a grand jury, which is what federal prosecutors do all the time. And they chose B because they understood this magistrate judge was not going to be fair in any event. And guess what? A Minnesota grand jury looked at the DOJ's evidence and said, you got him. There is probable cause that Don Lemon committed multiple crimes, and now he will have his day in court. This morning, James Blair, a deputy White House chief of staff, said that this federal grand jury had, in fact, done this. And of course, we told you that this was happening on this program yesterday. You should tune in here regularly if you want to know the very latest and the advance notice on the machinations of these legal cases. Anyone who acts surprise is doing just that. They're acting. Every video of the incident looks like a textbook example of face act violations. I mean, it's all there on camera. It's truly out of the stupid criminal files. They videotaped themselves committing the crime. Here's just a flavor of what happened that day.

Megyn Kelly (6:49)

Okay. They stormed a church and took over the church in the middle of the mass. By all accounts, those demonstrators absolutely terrorized the congregation for the viewing audience. Look how scared this child is. No child. No child, never mind in a house of God, should have to feel this way at the hands of protesters. He's being comforted, held by his parent. I think the other parent there has her hand on his back. And you can see he's visibly upset. And we know he was because the affidavit in support of the arrest warrant for the other three who were already taken into custody says specifically that, quote, they were terrorized. Our children were weeping. College students and young women were sobbing. It was impactful, and it will take time for us to work through. One victim broke her arm as she ran out of the church that day as these lunatics were shouting about shooting and getting your hands up. All right, One thought it was a shooting. Many others say they were not able to leave. And the one woman fell and injured was injured on her way out, breaking her arm. So what about Don Lemon? Now he says, I was just a journalist. And this is all over X right now. When this broke this morning, I mean, it's been a sea of misinformation on X, as everybody says. He said he's a. He's a journalist and all these journalism outlets. Oh, he's a journalist. What are you doing? We stand for free press. These are liars. These are agenda driven spin masters. Because actual journalists know full well you're not allowed to do this. If I could tell you the number of times that I've been out covering news with my cameras, and something happened where my cameras and I wanted my producer, my photog, and I wanted to go onto private property to get the best shot, but couldn't because we did not have permission. We'd be here all day. I mean, I'm thinking back to the very first big, big story I covered for Fox News, which was the Duke lacrosse fake rape case. We were all over Durham. We. We found the accuser. No one else had found her. She was not being named by the press. We found her name. We found where she lived. Nobody knew. It was in this very sketchy neighborhood. We were told by the cops not to go there, but we did anyway. In other words, they were worried for our safety, but we went into the neighborhood anyway, and we found her house. She was in it. We knew she was in there. Do you think I would have loved to go in there with my photog and get a picture of her on camera? You bet I would have. Why didn't I? Because it's not legal. That's private property. And when I put it to you in terms of a person's home, it's very easy to understand. Right? Of course. You can't do that. If you were in the middle of a news story, could CBS News come through your front door and photograph you? Could the New York Times? Of course not. Why? Because that's your private property and they don't have permission. So that's just one reason you can't do it. It would be trespass. It would be a criminal act of trespass. And every news organ, every single one out there right now that's saying, this is an outrage. She did nothing wrong. Absolutely knows this, but they are ignoring it. But Don Lemon is in so much more trouble than that because he did not just trespass into somebody's private property, which a church is absolutely is. He did not have an invitation to be there, and he trespassed. He made the colossal blunder of doing it into a house of worship in the middle of a religious service. That was a colossal blunder because now you're talking about rock solid rights that the churchgoers have under the Constitution and under federal statutes not to be bothered while they're worshiping. And Don Lemon is either too stupid or too rude to know that. Okay? He either was too dumb to check with his very famous, very well paid lawyer, Abby Lowell, before he did this colossally stupid thing, or he did know and he flouted the law intentionally. Either way, he's in a shit ton of trouble because you do have A constitutional right to worship in peace. And you have a statutory right to do it under the Face act and the Klan act for that matter. All right, so he messed with the wrong group of people. I would have been in trouble had I gone into Crystal Mangum's house under the trespass laws. And he not only violated the trespass laws, he stepped in a whole host of other shit because it was a religious house in the middle of a service. That's the difference here. It doesn't matter whether he participated as a protester, which there is a very strong case he did, or if he did it as a journalist. It doesn't matter. I could not go into an abortion clinic as Megan Kelly, journalist, with a bunch of pro lifers who were impeding women's access to the clinic. Even they wouldn't have to be putting chains on the door into the surgery room if they were standing between an abortion seeker and the surgical facility, or nevermind the abortion facility at large. They'd be committing a crime. And if I were in there too, I would be also committing a crime. I. You don't get a pass just by saying, well, I'm just here to put it on my YouTube channel. That's not how it works. Or even CBS Evening News or 60 Minutes or ABC Nightly News. Sorry, every real journalist knows that does not give you a free for all pass to do whatever the fuck you want. If only. I mean, if only we'd have amazing gets all the time. We would be. We would be participating in all sorts of crimes so we could bring them live to you in the midst of them. I mean, it'd be amazing. But we, we don't. And we can't because we understand we too are subjected to the same laws and constitutional prohibitions as citizens. All right, so I'm sorry, but this is all just a head fake. This. He's a journalist. He's a journalist. He's a journalist. I'm sorry, but he stepped right smack dab in the middle of mud that no journalist is allowed to step in. But, but putting that to the side for now, okay, we're just debate it with an excellent. The best legal panel in a minute. But putting that to the side. The guy was an active participant and he knew full well he didn't just like say, oh, I. I guess, you know, I've. I've been given a tip to show up to some unknown location. He knew all about what the organizers were planning to do inside this church. He willfully entered the church knowing full well that the Disruption was planned. The first example is Lemon at the meeting site with the protesters where he's kissing the organizer. They clearly know each other. They've been in cahoots. And you will hear him allude to knowing the details. He talks about how it's key that some of the agitators are what he calls MAGA coded. Watch.

Megyn Kelly (19:16)

Yeah, he. He wanted it to be a big surprise. He wanted them to get settled in, to say their prayers, to connect with God. And look, I. I go to church every Sunday. Think about. Think about your experience in that pew. You know, I. I will share something with you when I go, and probably just like a lot of you when I go, the first thing I do when I get there is I say my prayers for my family and for people I miss. I think about my sister all the time who died a couple of years ago at age 58. I say prayers for her, I think about her. I pray for my mom, who's 84. And this journalist wanted to make sure people like me were doing that so he could burst in and surprise them and is giggling. Asshole producer is under arrest, too. So he can right off with Don Lemon. They didn't have a care for interrupting that holy moment that the individuals inside that church were probably having with God, with Jesus, with loved ones, praying for the people who are suffering, praying for the people who are hurt, praying for the people they've lost, praying for their kids, praying to God to keep them safe. And in walks Don Lemon with his microphone, shoving it in your pastor's face as that pastor says, get out. Get out. And his response is, trauma's part of the process. Trauma's part of it. Being disturbed is our First Amendment right to disturb you. No, it isn't. That's where you're really wrong, Don. About 30 seconds after the protest begins, in the middle of the service, he details, of course, as we know now, knowing the protesters were there about this pastor, not the one who was actually delivering the service, but a different one apparently, being a member of ice, he knew that, okay? He knew that that was the reason for the protest. He knew because he was in on it. He was kissing the pro, the organizer of the protest before it happened. He knew they were going to. He knew everything. There wasn't a piece of this whole thing that Don Lemon wasn't in on in advance. And obviously, he had no problem with any of it watch.

Megyn Kelly (24:12)

That'S what protesting is about causing trauma to children. Isn't it ironic how he's sitting there, he's so worried about slipping on the ice. He's very worried about his own safety and that of his photog. Doesn't give a shit about the people who are having to run out of the church because of him. And indeed, one broke her arm, according to the federal affidavit in support of the arrests we saw earlier this week. Does he care about her? Did he care about the jo. No. Trauma's part of it. Trauma's part of it. Well, guess what, Don Lemon, now you're going to have trauma. It's your turn. He was arrested last night at the Grammys. Some sort of Grammy related event. James Rosen is reporting that law enforcement sources tell Newsmax he briefly resisted arrest by Homeland Security FBI agents in LA last night after he'd been handcuffed in a Los Angeles hotel lobby and was taken to an elevator. Now it's time for you to feel some trauma. And we don't feel sorry for you because Unlike those poor parishioners, you actually did bring this upon yourself. You didn't know the law or you did and you flouted it. Either way, you're in a lot of trouble. And it's thanks to your own terrible decision making. Even knowing, even knowing they were traumatized and they were crying and they were scared, you stayed, you giggled, you worried about whether you might slip and fall, but not about a single soul other than yourself and your photogate. Joining me now, Mike Davis, founder and president of the Article 3 project. And for his very first appearance on the Megyn Kelly show, we've got former federal prosecutor Bill Shipley, who's got literally one of the best legal accounts on X. I follow him religiously, but I've never had him on the show before. You can find him on X at Shipwrecked Crew. Before the cameras, before the ceremony, before history is made, every detail is chosen. From Amazon, MGM Studios comes Melania. This new film takes inside the 20 days leading up to the 2025 presidential inauguration through the eyes of the first lady herself, where fashion is not just style, it's strategy. Witness the image defining decisions made behind closed doors. A celebration of duty and glamour. Melania. Only in theaters starting January 30th. Mike, Bill, welcome to you both. Thanks for being here. Mike, let me start with you. Your, your reaction to the news and to the people, the leftists all over X with their dramatic this is about the First Amendment. President Trump has crossed a new line. This is an infringement, and so on.

Bill Shipley (38:50)

Because allegedly First Amendment, well, the Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion in the same First Amendment. So there's absolutely no basis for Don Lemon to claim that his First Amendment right as a member of the press is somehow superior to the First Amendment rights of all those people inside to exercise, freely exercise the religion. And frankly, I think the prosecutor or the pastor would have been perfectly within his rights to shove Don Lemon out of the church. Bit of self help, but there would have been nothing wrong with that, in my view. And Don Lemon's not there as a member of the press. I mean, we all know that. He might as well be a videographer for the group. He was capturing what they did for their benefit. Very interesting comment you made back before we started discussion mentioning his finances, him pitching for people to join his YouTube channel as a subscriber and to help support their independent journalism. That opens up all the finances of his enterprise to not just discovery efforts, but it's all relevant now in the trial. Why was he there? Was he there for the First Amendment, or was he there for the financial well being of his organization, trying to build it and promote it? And it was just a content opportunity that's not going anywhere. Something else I want to mention if you unbolt me just a second. You know, I believe this church is actually in St. Paul, not in Minneapolis. And I've done some digging. You know, there are different Federal courthouses in St. Paul and Minneapolis, and they're in different counties. Now, as I don't think it's news to anybody here that jury pools for federal court are drawn not just from the city where the event happens, but they're drawn from the federal district and the division within the federal district where the charges are filed. I expect what we're going to see today is an indictment not out of Minneapolis, not out of the U.S. attorney. Well, it'll be out of the District of Minnesota, but it won't be filed in the Minneapolis courthouse. It'll be filed in the St. Paul courthouse. And the jury pool for that will come from not just St. Paul, but all of the counties in Minnesota that are within that division of the District of Minnesota. Don Lemon's jury pool is going to consist of a lot of people just like the people trying to worship in that church.

Megyn Kelly (42:15)

Good point. You know, Mike, they're already trying to say over on cnn, which was hysterical this morning and so replete with misinformation, nobody over there knows the law, honestly. Like, Ellie Hoenig is the only guy who even makes an effort at being and actually sticking to the facts. He's a former federal prosecutor, but they didn't have him on this morning. In any event, they are saying he's doing this. Trump is doing this because Don Lemon is a critic, because Don's been critical of President Trump. Meanwhile, they arrested another woman there who styled herself as a, quote, journalist. Her name is Georgia Fort. She used to be a news anchor in Duluth, Minnesota, and in Columbus, Georgia, and now has her own independent, I guess, media company called Black Press. And she was arrested, too, and as were several others. So it's not, it isn't just about Don Lemon or critics of President Trump. They, they went after the ringleaders who were there and anybody else who they could identify. And they're still working it, to my understanding, is on identifying all the people who participated in this, it has nothing to do with Don Lemon's politics. But. But that's where they're going to go with it. And here's what I wanted to ask you. I told the audience that originally the magistrate judge who was conflicted and wouldn't say that there was probable cause for this case, he kicked it out and said, either improve your probable cause or go to a jury, a grand jury. So they tried to overrule him, our DOJ did, by going to his boss, basically the chief district judge. And that guy said, what are you doing here? I agree with that other guy's remedy. Go and prove your probable cause affidavit or go to a grand jury. I'm not getting involved. Then they try to go above him to the A circuit, and the A circuit said, what are you doing here? You're premature here. We don't take these cases on appeal until they're all done. Get out. So they went to a grand jury and got the indictment, but that chief judge wrote a letter, and in his letter, he did say, go to a grand jury. But he also said, I see no evidence to support a case against Don Lemon. And that's all over X this morning. All these journalists are like, there's no evidence. Two judges said that the magistrate judge wouldn't do it the district judge said there's no evidence. And now this morning, just FYI reports just in that that the Minnesota Attorney General, Keith Ellison, who went on Don lemon's podcast within 24 hours of this event saying you didn't do anything wrong, is now saying the same via paper statement. And on top of that, we are now told that a group of journalists have gathered outside of the federal courthouse in downtown LA where Don Lemon is expected to be booked. An anti ice process test is expected to be held near this afternoon. So we're going to hear all about that judge's conclusion and the magistrate judge not finding PC to begin with. Your thoughts on those angles.

Michael Knowles (52:26)

When I got the news, I was sitting down for my show this morning. I pulled a Mayflower cigar out of my cigar box. I lit it up. I'm a simple man. The feds arrest Don Lemon. I light a cigar. This is, without any qualification, a wonderful thing to happen. It is good for society. It is good for law and order. It's even good for Don Lemon because the guy is clearly very messed up. Now, look, all the public stories about Murph's bar in Sag harbor, and the guy's got a lot of problems, okay? And this is good. He needs to be rehabilitated. He's got a lot of issues. He needs to be corrected. But it's really important, because the biggest impediment, I think, to our having a good, orderly society in recent years has been the establishment media. They're the ones who lie. They're the ones who push their radical policies. They're the ones who protect the horrible politicians, and they've gotten away with it. And what this arrest signifies is that you can't just go about and commit crimes and then claim journalism as a defense. You know, the idea that Don Lemon could, by all evidence, conspire with this mob, he said, I know a little secret. I know what we're about to do. Go in there, violate federal law, the Face act, notably, deprive people of their rights, and then say, no, no, I have a camera while I did it. That would be like saying, you go over, you murder your enemy, you shoot him five times in the head, and you say, no, no, no, you can't arrest me. I was gonna write an article about it later. That's not a defense. And so I'm pleased by the arrest. Now, what's very important is we need the serious charges, and we need him to be found guilty. He needs to actually serve time for this. Pro life grannies served years in the clink for praying at abortion clinics because of Face act violations. Don Lemon needs to serve double that. What he did is much, much worse than what the pro life grannies did. So the fear here is if he gets it'll be good for him. It'll put us in a worse position than we were in the beginning. But that's not an excuse to do nothing. You just have to push ahead. This guy needs to face consequences.

Michael Knowles (64:17)

I hope this becomes a referendum on the First Amendment. I hope so. That's what the left wants to make it. Cuz they think that the facts are on their side. They're not. This is a little bit of a hobby horse of mine. I wrote a whole book called Speechless about the limits of the First Amendment and our free speech tradition. A lot of people who are going out, blocking traffic, obstructing law enforcement, driving SUVs into cops, they think that all of that activity is protected by some right to protest. It is not. That's nowhere in the First Amendment. That's nowhere in our legal tradition. We have the right to peaceably assemble. We have the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. That's why we have to do so in an orderly way. There are licenses that you have to, permits that you have to receive. You know, that's what it's for and that all of that is protected. When it comes to journalism, when it comes to freedom of speech, we have broad freedom of speech in the country. But there's a lot of speech that's not protected. Speech like obscenity, speech like direct threats, speech like fighting words and so on. You cannot use free speech as a justification to commit additional crimes. You cannot claim that your status as a journalist, whatever that means in the era of the citizen journalist and of the new media, gives you some kind of blanket immunity to break the law. That's not true. That's never been what the First Amendment means. From the very beginning, immediately, almost after the ratification of the Constitution, the federal government clarified what sort of speech was off limits and what kind of speech acts are off limits. So I think it's great. I think a lot of our present political ills are these people sincerely have no idea what is actually meant by our free speech tradition. And then they go out and commit a bunch of crimes. Whether it means they're gonna riot in the streets of Minneapolis in 2020 and 2025 and 26, or whether it means that you're gonna invade a church and call it journalism. Yeah, great. Let's make this about the First Amendment. It kind of reminds me of how when President Trump went into Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro previously had said, come and get me, come and get me. That's what Don Lemon was doing here. It was a game of chicken. He was saying, look, I'm gonna go right up here, I'm gonna break the law, and you guys are too chicken to come and arrest me. So I Think the Trump DOJ had to come in and enforce the law here. It's the same kind of thing we see with the body camera debate. You know, the left for years said that the cops need to wear body cameras because when we finally get to the truth of what's going on, that's gonna vindicate the left, and it's gonna make the cops look terrible. What happened? It's exactly the opposite. Body cams come around, all the footage makes the criminals look awful, totally exonerates the cops. I think if we get down to the heart of the matter here, the truth of our law, the truth of what these journalists are really doing, it's gonna be a massive win from the right and not a moment too soon.

Megyn Kelly (84:04)

Back again to his priors. Gay, black. You can't do it to me. I'm a gay black man. I suppose he went through the same search that Nakima did last night. Look forward to hearing all about that on his live feed when he gets out on bail, which he will. I want to shift gears slightly because yesterday we devoted the program to questioning what exactly has changed in Minneapolis because Tom Holman, who we love, got out there and said, talked to Keith Ellison. I made good progress with him. He's now saying that he's going to cooperate with us on allowing ICE to make arrests at the county jails in Minnesota. That before somebody gets out, you know, like, whatever this guy we know, he's in illegal and he DWI'd. He's in prison for two years. He gets out in March. I'm gonna call him now, it's January, and tell Ice, you know, Hector gets out March 14th. That's great. Okay. But we questioned on this program yesterday, how exactly is Keith Ellison gonna do this? Because this is really more of a county by county issue, and he is. The attorney general had just issued an opinion not long ago saying it would be a Fourth Amendment violation to hold people even like one day longer. So, like, if ICE came on March 15, they couldn't hold them. So it was just, you know, my basic question was, has the Minneapolis mayor weighed in on this? Did we hear directly from Keith Ellison on this? And yesterday, before our show, we actually called the sheriff for Hennepin county, which is where Minneapolis was, is to say, did you agree to that? Like, are you. Are you going to do that? And here's the long and the short of it. We got a long gobbledygook answer from the sheriff, which amounts to, no, I did not agree to that. We now hear reporting from Fox News correspondent Matt Finn, who says that Ellison has given Fox a statement saying he made no deal with Tom Homan and also wrote that he cannot tell jails to cooperate with ice, but that jails historically can do their own thing. Then he writes, the sheriff's. The sheriff office in Hennepin county tells us at Fox it is not in the process of making any changes, which dovetails with what he told us, which is gobbledygo, gobbledygook. No, there's no deal. So as far as I can tell, we don't have an explicit agreement from anybody to actually change things at the county jail. Now this, this sheriff does say this would have to come from the state, but again, Ellis Ellison is saying he did not cut a deal, so it's not coming from the state attorney general. So is it up to Governor Walls? Because Governor Walsh today is issuing proclamations, say by local, because ICE is hurting our economy and definitely not saying make the local and county jails cooperate with ice. Long and short, long way of saying. Michael Knowles, I have no idea what, if any, deal has been struck between our federal government and the local governments in Minneapolis. And I have zero reason to change, to believe they're gonna change. But it does seem we're changing in not going after anybody other than illegals who have also done something extra criminal.

Michael Knowles (90:34)

Yes. You know, the one thing I know about Minneapolis is that we are in Minneapolis and it's all about Minneapolis. I love that Jacob Fry said, these need to stop in Minneapolis and nationwide. That's a helpful reminder that these ICE raids are going on nationwide. How come they're only a really big problem in Minneapolis? Why is it only Minneapolis? Why is it always Minneapolis? Why has this been true since George Floyd and since even before then? Obviously, it's a political problem. The problem is that you have leaders here who, who are contravening federal law, who are committing crimes, who are protecting criminals. And so you know, it's a game of chicken with the federal government. What has really changed so far? Nothing is all that we know. What probably could happen, maybe best case scenario, is both sides make their points and then nothing changes. And Tom Homan comes in and he keeps conducting the same kinds of raids. But it is crucial here that the administration does not let up one bit. It is crucial that the administration does not pull one officer, one agent off of the case, does not leave one extra illegal in the city. Because this is a game of chicken that could have nationwide implications. The summer of Love during the Year of our Floyd began in Minneapolis. And because the federal government didn't quash it, it spread, it infected the rest of the country. So we can't just repeat what happened there. Hopefully we have to learn these lessons. And when you look at the public opinion polls, they're kind of split. On the one hand, it's true, most voters think that ICE should chill out in Minneapolis. But then when it comes to mass deportations, generally, voters are overwhelmingly majority in support of that. And so what that means is they like it in principle. They don't like the nasty pictures. This means that we need to win the war of the pictures. This means. And Tom Holman is pretty good at this. He's very good at messaging. We need to make clear, very true, that these, the rapists and the murderers and all the rest of them child abusers, we see their faces, we see their face tattoos. That becomes the image of Minneapolis. In addition to that, people who have not committed additional crimes also need to be deported. But I hope it's just a PR shift. You don't need to say that you're deporting abuela in order to deport abuela. If you're going to have mass deportations, some abuelas are getting deported. I'm sorry, it's just how it works. It's federal law. Both parties agreed with this until like five minutes ago. You have to do that. But at least on the messaging, we need to show the problem where it is most urgent, where it's most grievous, where you have 80% support. I hope that's what Homan's doing. But if the White House is using this as an opportunity to back off, I think it is a huge, potentially existential mistake.

Megyn Kelly (94:10)

Okay, we're going to bring on Howard Bloom in a minute because we've got new details in the Bryan Kohlberger case. He's trying to get transferred in out of his prison. But more importantly, Howard Bloom now thinks Brian Kohlberger may have had an accomplice. That's next. Relief Factor loves hearing from pain free customers and hopes they can help you next. One user of Relief Factor named Kim wrote to them to say, quote, before trying Relief Factor, I struggled just to make it through my work days. I'd collapse on the couch at night, aching everywhere. Within a few weeks of starting Relief Factor, the daily pain began to fade. Now I'm keeping up at work and I still have energy left from my family. There are many stories just like Kim's of parents having more love to give but less stress, less strength to share. Relief Factor does not just ease your pain. It can restore your evenings and your laughter and the simple joy of being present and being a good parent. It if you want to feel the difference, like Kim with back pain, knee issues or stiffness that is slowing you down, Relief Factor could give you your mobility back. Relief actor is 100 drug free and it targets the inflammation that causes pain. In order to move better, feel better and actually enjoy life again. Try the three week quick start for just 19.95. Go to relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief. Let's see if you could be next in getting out of pain. New unsealed court filings reveal more horrifying details about the final moments of the four University of Idaho students murdered by Brian Kohlberger. The autopsy findings show the victims were stabbed at least 150 times collectively. Three attacked as they slept, one fighting desperately for her life in her final moments. That was Zanna Kernodle. Our friend, the great journalist Howard Bloom, has been covering this case from the beginning. He literally wrote the book on it. It was a bestseller called when the Night Comes Falling, A Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders, and has covered this case so well for so long. And now he's raising an unsettling theory. Having seen all the latest evidence that Bryan Kohlberger may not have acted alone, he joins me now to explain. Welcome back, Howard. Great to have you. That's quite a headline. Why are you saying that?

Megyn Kelly (100:41)

Random event, but no, I mean, I feel like they didn't have evidence of why this house was chosen, but they. There's no question he'd been watching these girls and that he'd been watching the house. They saw his car had been there prior to the night of the murders. He'd been casing it. And obviously he knew that at least, you know, three young, five young, beautiful women lived There. All right, standby. We have to take a quick break. We're going to come back on the opposite side of this, so don't go away. Howard's going to finish his theory on this, which is provocative and interesting. And we'll get to the prison transfer as well. You know Pure Talk's favorite holiday? It's Presidents Day because they believe wireless service should only cost you a couple of presidents. Just a Jackson and a Lincoln to be exact. That's 25 bucks a month. And that 25 bucks a month will get you from Pure Talk, unlimited talk text and plenty of data. Now compare that to big Wireless. They would rather celebrate Benjamin Franklin Day so they can charge your family hundreds every month. They love the Benjamins more and more and more as long as you're paying them. Pure Talk is an American wireless company that supports our veterans and invests in a US Only customer service team. So when you call, you're talking to someone right here at home. We all know they're trying to find a polite way not to say you're calling India and speaking with somebody in Bangladesh or someplace like that. Pure Talk uses the same towers as the big carriers, so enjoy superior 5G coverage without the inflated price. Just $25 a month for talk text and plenty of data. No contract, no cancellation fee. What are you waiting for? Go to PureTalk.com Kelly and you'll get 50% 50 off your first month. Again, that's PureTalk.com Kelly to make the switch to PureTalk. Coming off a GLP1 and looking for a weight loss solution that actually lasts this new year. Research shows up to 40% of weight lost on GLP1s comes from lean muscle, slowing metabolism and making weight regain almost inevitable. Prolon's five day Fasting Mimicking diet offers a drug free way to get and keep results. It activates fasting pathways to trigger fat focused weight loss, protect muscle and rejuvenate cells when paired with proper diet and exercise. No injections, no guesswork, just real results. Get 15% off plus a bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com PandoraProMo that's prolonlife.com PandoraProMe These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. See site for details. Hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius xm. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel and it is where you will hear the Truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. A lot of along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real clear politics and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the SiriusXM app. We are back now with journalist Howard Bloom talking about Brian Kohlberger and why Howard Bloom believes now having seen the crime scene photos and done some other investigation, that Bryan Kohlberger may have had an accomplice and more than that, that Bryan Kohlberger may have been the accomplice to someone else. Now, Howard, one of the most interesting things that you raise in your piece positing this, this possibility is you reckon back to Harken, back to the moment Kohlberger was taken into custody and one of the few public statements that he made on the record about this case and the very first question he asked the investigators when he was arrested.