Megyn Kelly (2:09)

It should have been 22 points. That's what Trump won that district by. And it's a solidly red district. So why are the Republicans only winning it by nine points? Especially since the Democrat candidate was a complete loon. That's a problem. I mean, the Republicans can just pretend that they don't have any problems. That's fine. You can do that. If you want to sit here for the next 11 months and say, this is all Your haters.

Chamath Palihapitiya (2:33)

Okay.

Megyn Kelly (2:33)

We'll see how that turns out for you in November. Or you could actually get honest about why you're having these problems and change some things and then possibly win the midterm elections. It's not a foregone conclusion that you're going to lose. Look what Joe Biden did. You know, he. Yes, the Republicans took. They did okay. But there was no big red wave. Remember that a couple years ago. You could limit the losses. Will they try? Will they try to figure it out? What's causing this? We'll talk about it. Joining me now on this and much, much more is Chamath Palihapitiya. He is a co host of the all in podcast and CEO of Social Capital. Chamath, welcome back.

Chamath Palihapitiya (3:17)

Hi, Megan, how are you?

Megyn Kelly (3:19)

Great to see you.

Chamath Palihapitiya (3:20)

Great to see you.

Megyn Kelly (3:21)

Let's start there because, you know, our mutual friend, your close friend David Sacks is in the administration. I know a lot of folks in the administration. And this thing in Tennessee is a bit of a rattler. Trump won it by 22. They only won it last night by 10. The Democrat is a nutcase. Excuse me.

Megyn Kelly (3:42)

Yes, they put a bunch of money into the race, the Dems, but so do the Republicans. So what's happening here? Like, if you actually got the audience with Trump and he said, what should I do to make sure it's not a bloodbath for Republicans in November, what would you tell them?

Chamath Palihapitiya (3:58)

I think the plan is actually pretty straightforward to diagnose, but it's complicated to fix.

Amelia Lewis (4:06)

So.

Chamath Palihapitiya (4:06)

So just to set some context, when I was at the White House, I think it was two or three weeks ago, I saw some data that had been vetted and that was about to be shared with the president. Now, I think it's been widely shared, which is that under Joe Biden, I think that the average American family lost about $3,000 of purchasing power. And the reason they lost that was in large part because of inflation and runaway costs and, you know, the cost of practical, useful things that they need for their life, electricity, health care and.

Chamath Palihapitiya (4:45)

Childcare. So the Trump administration starts from a $3,000 hole. Now, what they've been able to do in 11 months is that they've earned back $1,000, which is a third of where they are. I think the problem, though, is that they will need to find the other 2000, and it's not their fault because, again, they inherit where they started from. But I think the perception that people have is just that negative $2,000. So if I had to diagnose an answer. I think it's about breaking down the population that's voting into three cohorts. Cohort number one are people that are mostly retired. I think that their priority is going to be mostly around health care. Then there's cohort number two, which are middle aged, middle income families. I think their huge sensitivity is general cost of living. And then I think what people like Mamdani uncovered, which I think the Republicans should embrace, is for young people. The huge hot button question is around student loans and debt load and on ramping into the United States economy with a decent starting job and salary. So I think you have to have programs that touch each of these three areas and that is probably the path forward where you can earn back the 2000 show that you've basically closed this hole that Biden created and then ideally you get out of that hole so that you're now gross net positive, which would be a huge economic win for them.

Megyn Kelly (6:28)

Now, of those voting blocks, the one that is most likely to actually show up on election day is the older group. If history is any. Excuse me, I've got my Ludens, I've got all my tool search month, but.

Chamath Palihapitiya (6:40)

I'm coming off the Ricola. Yeah, I got you.

Megyn Kelly (6:43)

In any event, the older people are the ones who vote, but also people who are economically motivated will vote. I mean, we did see a higher turnout of the young people last time around in large part thanks to our friend Charlie. So where do you focus on? I mean, truly, like if you're just talking like brass tacks, November's coming. We've got to get people motivated to vote Republican or we're gonna lose the House. We're gonna have nonstop impeachments and investigations. The Trump agenda will be stymied. Where do you go?

Chamath Palihapitiya (7:15)

I mean, I can brainstorm with you. These are all kind of like hypotheticals, but I think the hypotheticals are kind of interesting because it starts to make the point you're making. So I think if you look at older folks, the biggest cost that they bear is the uncertainty and the actual lived cost of medical expenses as they get older. Because most of them, you know, for better or for worse have structural housing. You know, they've either owned a home or have been renting something for a long enough period of time where that issue is less of an issue for them per se. You know, we talk, we all talk about how boomers sort of were buying homes in the 80s and 70s and early 90s and everybody else now is sort of on the sidelines, frozen out. So if it's around medical care. We heard yesterday in the cabinet meeting, Bobby Kennedy say something really interesting which is starting in 2026, you will not allowed for certain procedures to have to go through prior auth, which is this crazy scheme that the insurance companies use to essentially slow down approvals. They do that so that they can make more money in the short term before they have to pay out claims. But the lived experience for older Americans is when you need a procedure, you're kind of waiting around, hand wringing, wondering why the insurance you're paying into isn't approving a legitimate medical procedure. So if you look at that narrow issue and expand the scope, the interesting thing would be to figure out how can we make the healthcare rails in America more frictionless? How do you make prior auth much easier to do across a wide variety of procedures? But also maybe we should look at medications. How do we think about out of pocket costs in Medicare and Medicaid? Could those be subsidized in some way with sources of funds that are neutral to the government, meaning they don't come out of the general fund? There are some very clever financial things that one can do there that rely heavily on private corporations and the money that they're already making. So that's one practical issue. How do you specifically narrowly lower health care costs for older voters? But that consolidates the block of people, as you said, that are going to come no matter what. I think if you're going to go after homes and middle aged folks, you have to look at utility costs, food costs and electricity costs and you have to find a way. And there are by the way, very clever things that one can do again that don't require the general fund or treasury. One example of this is that if you had a large group of corporations come together, they can directly use the big beautiful bill language around things like batteries and smart thermometers and you can go and implement these things into a home, help reduce the cost of electricity, in some cases upwards of 50 or 60%. And what you get is actually a rebate on the taxes you would otherwise pay.

Chamath Palihapitiya (10:22)

That at scale I think has a huge impact on CPI and could activate the 35 to 55 year old voter who's in a household family of four type thing. But I go back to this other thing. This younger cohort was activated by these.

Chamath Palihapitiya (10:42)

Programs that are, you know, they're frankly they're regressive but they're masked as like equity. And I think the most important thing that they care about is what is the long term solution for all of the student debt that they're signing up for? Because the jobs that they get afterwards make absolutely no sense and do not generate anywhere near the revenue relative to the cost that they undertake.

Megyn Kelly (11:11)

We're not doing anything about college tuition, nothing. We just keep increasing the amount that they can borrow. So then they do borrow that because the universities increase their tuition immediately accordingly and the students are left with this enormous bill that cannot be paid off any sooner than 30 years with jobs that don't justify that sort of income.

Chamath Palihapitiya (11:32)

It'll never be paid off. It'll never be paid off. And look, think about a house, right? You take on a multi hundred thousand dollar mortgage in a house, most people don't also pay off their mortgages. What they're able to do is rise and participate in the appreciation of the home and then close the mortgage out when they sell the home, right? The overwhelming majority of people get the capital appreciation of this huge loan that is a liability on their balance sheet. But if you look at student debt, those loans are of the same order of magnitude as a home mortgage. But they don't appreciate in value in any way, they don't accrue value to you in any way, and they're an albatross that you can't even discharge in a bankruptcy. So I think the thing that we have to seriously consider now is at a minimum, do we stop federally underwriting all loans in an equal way? It doesn't make any logical sense that somebody chasing an 8 year PhD in Art History has the same economic opportunities as somebody chasing a four year degree in biochemistry.

Chamath Palihapitiya (12:47)

The latter has a lot more practical applications. Yet when we the United States people underwrite that loan so that it can be sold into Wall street, we view them the same. So then what happens is Harvard is just as incentivized as to push that person into a. You know, they go to that person and say, Megan, I think you should get an undergrad in biochemistry. You're like, no, I really like art history. They're like, well what about this PhD?

Chamath Palihapitiya (13:11)

That can't happen anymore. You have to be able to differentiate these things and understand the downstream economic value. And if you want to study art history, maybe the right thing for most people is to learn by yourself or in a community college class while you are working because you appreciate that underwriting a $300,000 degree for that thing doesn't make any sense economically. We don't have that conversation in the United States, but I think we have to.

Megyn Kelly (13:37)

No, because it's all federal loans. I mean, if there were private lenders making a case by case decision, we would factor earning ability in, but we don't. The government just gives it. And I lived this firsthand, too, even when I was in law school. They raised the amount that you could get from the government on the tuition loans. And sure enough, and I was thinking, oh, great, I'll actually be able to get some that will go toward my. My. My cost of living. Not just tuition. Can I give. Like, I'll actually pay for my own apartment without having to work all these hours on top of my law school. And no, I couldn't, because the law school just raised the tuition exactly the amount that the government raised the loan amount. So it all goes to the university. Everybody's experiencing this.

Chamath Palihapitiya (14:19)

Can I give you an example that underscores this even more? The best example of why there is sanity in the private markets. Now. Now you've given me what. What you had. Excuse me?

Megyn Kelly (14:32)

Oh, no, over there. The transom. I'm good.

Phil Holloway (14:34)

No, you know what?

Chamath Palihapitiya (14:35)

You know what it is? In Thanksgiving, all that happens is we all spend time at home. We all just get sick. I. I have five kids. Three of them were laid out all Thanksgiving. My wife and I were just trying to duck bullets the whole time.

Megyn Kelly (14:46)

You know, it's a miracle. And, you know, I'd rather be at work. Easy it is to infect your family because like every doorknob you touch in your. In your home, the refrigerator, the remote control, you're just like this petri dish. Although I will tell you, chamath, Doug and I, we had a very funny exchange this morning. I don't know if you're like this, but whenever I get sick, I'm sitting here like a walking ball of germs, coughing, I'm blowing my nose, and my eyes are running, and Doug's like, I feel something in my throat. There's a tickle. I have a tickle. We have to spend 10 minutes on the tickle in his throat. We have to spend zero on what's happening to me right now at this second. Like, men are just.

Chamath Palihapitiya (15:24)

You're a woman. You're a woman. You're strong. Men are weak, and we need to be coddled when we get sick. This is a rule.

Megyn Kelly (15:31)

It's true. I. It really is true. Men are physically stronger, but they are mentally weaker when it comes to the thought or experience of illness. This is a fact. This is why we have the babies. God knew.

Chamath Palihapitiya (15:44)

I. I have a. I have an incredibly funny but sad story about this. So during Thanksgiving, we go on Black Friday to a mall here in Silicon Valley, and two of my kids are sick and my wife is sick. And in the middle of this thing, there was like a shooting, which never happens where we are.

Megyn Kelly (16:01)

Wow.

Chamath Palihapitiya (16:02)

And the whole mall goes into lockdown. We're in a store. The people at the store did a wonderful job. They closed all the doors. We were sitting in the dressing room just waiting for everything to clear. And it was clear pretty quickly. It was just an isolated event. But in any event, in the whole thing, I look at my wife and my kids who are sick, and I'm like, are you guys okay? They're like this. And they're like, are you okay? I had nothing wrong and I was just a puddle. I was like, you know, I don't know what's going on. I think I have Covid. Plus the flu, plus the avian flu. I don't know what's happening. I'm ready to, like, just completely. It was so. It was so okay. Anyway, so going back to what I was going to say to you before going.

Chamath Palihapitiya (16:41)

The best example of where there's rationality when the private market prices something versus the public market is in mortgages. So when you buy a home and you want to get either the insurance or the mortgage itself, one of the things that we've been told about for years is there is this threat of climate change. And climate change could meaningfully impact sea levels. They could impact the weather, they could impact extreme weather events. Well, you know, who has the best incentive to understand whether those claims will be true in a dispassionate way? It's banks. And the reason is it's the bank's money that's being used to buy a home. And what's so interesting about that is that forget all of the rhetoric, all of the emotional sturm and drawing around climate change. If you actually just looked at how the banks priced risk over these last 20 years, what the financial direction would tell you was that climate change was something that could theoretically be important, but not much of a thing.

Chamath Palihapitiya (17:56)

And that was the actual financial underwriting. This is just an example to show you that when you have these important philosophical issues of society, sometimes the clarity and the truth can be found through unemotional financial underwriting. It's not true for all things, but if you gave these educational degrees into the hands of institutions that would have to pay for it, you would very quickly see them figure out what the ability for these kids would be to pay it. And also what the ability for these kids would be to enjoy a good life and their version of the American dream. You would get that answer within a year.

Megyn Kelly (18:38)

Yeah, yeah.

Chamath Palihapitiya (18:39)

And today that's not what's happening.

Megyn Kelly (18:40)

Approach it the same way. There was. What you said about climate change reminded me of this. It went kind of viral yesterday. Nicole Shanahan, who was RFKJ's running mate and was married to Sergey Brin of Google, co founder, she has her own podcast now and she, she went off a bit on the obsession with climate change among many people in Silicon Valley. It's not just Silicon Valley, but among especially like the rich Silicon Valley wives. It was pretty interesting.

Chamath Palihapitiya (19:09)

Yeah, the private equity wise. Yeah, the tech wives.

Megyn Kelly (19:11)

Take a listen to this. Yeah, she was on with, actually she was on with Ali Beth Stuckey, but here she is. Nicole Shanahan, Sat 13.

Nicole Shanahan (19:18)

What I don't think many of the tech mafia wives realize is that they were used to set the groundwork for what was called like the reset. What is called generally as like the reset. The tech wive mafias, I believe were kind of being conscripted in many ways and their money especially was being conscripted in.

Nicole Shanahan (19:40)

To set the groundwork for the great reset, specifically through a network of non NGO advisors.

Nicole Shanahan (19:55)

Relationship with Hollywood.

Nicole Shanahan (19:59)

Relationship with Davos and their own companies, completely blind to everything else that's going on and how their groundwork is being used to then enable these other policies, these great reset policies. And these women find their meaning through their philanthropic work. That was my self worth, was my philanthropic work and I really believed in it. I really believed that I was giving black communities a chance to like rise up out of oppression. I really believe that I was helping indigenous communities rise up out of oppression. The problems of the community have gotten worse. Crime in the community has gotten worse. Mental health in the native community, the indigenous community has gotten worse. The whole model is broken. The whole model makes everybody worse off. Social justice and climate change, it always boils down to those two things and it gets progressive women 100% of the time.

Megyn Kelly (21:00)

It's amazing to watch her red pill evolution. Super fun to see her get there. And yes, everything she said is right. Chamath.

Chamath Palihapitiya (21:10)

I.

Chamath Palihapitiya (21:13)

I can kind of see where she's coming from. I think that, look, the thing with Silicon Valley that's so incredible is you can believe in yourself and you can start something and in any other place, what would otherwise take you 50 years, you can accomplish in five. Now that's an incredible thing in terms of what you can make for society. But it can be a very destabilizing thing, because along with making great things, you can be rewarded in five years in a way, and at a scale that would have otherwise taken 50 or 75 as well. That second part is very destabilizing. And I think that there are those folks that then have access to these resources that aren't necessarily anchored to something, who want to find purpose. And if you are an elite organization like Davos and you can create this air around yourself about intellectual and moral superiority, you have the ability to pull these folks in and use them as tools and mechanisms to affect your agenda. I think that's essentially what she's saying.

Chamath Palihapitiya (22:25)

It's a very complicated topic. I sympathize for what a lot of those folks are doing. Some of these tech wives, to be honest. I know.

Chamath Palihapitiya (22:36)

And I think the honest answer is you actually have to start looking at the core of these organizations, like these Davosos, and start asking the question, like, maybe we don't need to have this hyper globalist, monocultural view from the top. And I think if you have the courage to say that and say there's a lot of different viewpoints and many people acting independently always gets to a better answer than a group of a thousand people deciding for 8 billion. And I think that's what.

Megyn Kelly (23:09)

I think it's something different. I think it's something else. I think these women tend to be gunners in their own right. Nicole, I think she was getting her degree at Stanford when she met Sergey. Like, she was on her way toward doing her own independent thing. It's the same story for a lot of the women in Silicon Valley. Same story for a lot of the women where I am in Connecticut who wind up marrying billionaires or guys who are on their way to becoming. And I think what these women need is a more active purpose in their lives. I think they wind up married to people who are more successful than they are. So it's like, okay, I'll sacrifice my career and I'll raise children, but the children quickly age out of the range where you need a mom there full time. And so now these women are bored. They have a lot of brain power. It's like Secretariat is sitting there in the pasture during his prime years and he's fucking bored. He needs to run. And, like, what these women need to do is step away from Davos and these fake charities as, like, something that's real and helping anybody and go to work. Like, find the balance that allows you to use your brain power in the way God intended. And also take care of your children, if that's what you would like to do. And I totally support that. But I think what happens is they're bored and they find the wrong outlet for it. That's not real work. It's a substitute for it. Because if you have real problems, Shamath, let's say you have an actual bill to play, to pay. Let's take it down to, like, my mom, who's a nurse. She doesn't have time to think about this bullshit. She is taking care of patients all day. Well, now she's retired. She's 84. But in the day that those people are never the ones creating society's problems. They're too busy managing their own. It's almost like these people need real problems.

Chamath Palihapitiya (25:00)

So if. So when you say go to work, do you mean, like, join a corporation and, you know, slot yourself in and try to work yourself up the ladder.

Megyn Kelly (25:10)

Or whatever your passion is? I don't know. Could be you. You start a business, you know, And I don't mean the fake business either. Here's the other problem that I see with these billionaire wives. So many take their husband's money and then they're like, I'm a founder. And they start doling out the husband's money to random groups and they're like, oh, I'm the founder of that company. I'm one of their chief investors. That's not doing anything. That's giving away your husband's money. Pick a fucking job that requires you to use your brain. That requires you to take risk, hire people, evaluate situations and make judgment calls. Fail, succeed, stand up on your own two feet, be your own individual person and not just your husband's wife. If you really want an active profession, not every woman does. But for the women who do do that, instead of doing fake Davos shit, that is meaningless. And actually, it's worse than meaningless. It's harmful. It just makes you feel better about your fragile ego, you know, getting it stroked. But you're actually hurting people. Cause you don't understand that world. You don't understand how you're being used and how you're not even important to them. You're just a gateway to your husband's wallet. And they, on some level, they know it. So it's unfulfilling, but we all pretend it's not the case. Find something that. I mean, honestly, I've said this to some of my friends. I would rather they get a job at the damn supermarket. Just do something that genuinely requires you for eight hours A day or six hours a day. Sorry for my rant, but that's. I have strong feelings about it.

Chamath Palihapitiya (26:41)

Yeah, I mean, I think that that's. It's just an incredibly hard thing to do, I guess, because I think if you put yourself in their shoes, maybe there's a level of stature that they feel like they won't get by doing that. I'm not. I agree with you. Like, I've been a worker my whole life.

Megyn Kelly (26:57)

The opposite, never.

Chamath Palihapitiya (26:59)

Yeah. I think you have to have a social circle as well that rewards that. You know, it's hard to go back and say, listen, I've decided to do xyz. And that's less interesting than, say, flying around to Davos and giving away money. That's the thing that those folks are able to do, Megan, is they're able to market and make you feel very special for doing that. So. Yeah, all I'm saying is we have to find a way of creating a social culture that rewards what you just said. Right.

Megyn Kelly (27:28)

And if we can have me, I'll create the culture around them. They can call me for daily psych up.

Chamath Palihapitiya (27:34)

Affirmations.

Megyn Kelly (27:34)

Affirmations, yes. I'm happy to give it to, like, honestly, when I'm choosing a friend, I would much rather see somebody who's like, hustling on her own, whatever it is, even if she's married. I know people like this right now who are married to very rich men who are constantly finding something else intellectually interesting to do, whose children are launched, you know, in college, they don't require them full time any longer, and who just continue to challenge themselves like, this isn't good enough. I'm not actually happy just sitting around here being asked for my investments. I have to find a way to make my own life matter more than that. And when women don't do that at any income level, I really think it leads to bad things. I think it's one of the reasons why women are a huge part of our problem right now. They're a huge part of our societal and political problems because they're voting overwhelmingly Democrat. They. They buy into the narratives that the left sells them about DEI and racism and the trans stuff and empathy, and they're ruining the country with all this apathy and free time.

Chamath Palihapitiya (28:32)

What is it exploiting, do you think? Like, how are the Democrats able to exploit that so well, so efficiently?

Megyn Kelly (28:39)

Because it is. Ali Bastucky is speaking of her. She wrote the book called Toxic Empathy, and that's exactly what it is. Women have. Have a beautiful thing called Empathy in spades, way more than men have. That's the way God intended it. And it's the reason why generally when your kid gets hurt, he wants his mom and not his dad. You know, you're gonna stroke him and hug him and brush your hair. Yeah. And the dad's gonna be like, you're fine. You know, toughen up. But that gets exploited From K through 12 and beyond by these teachers who use it to make these girls feel like bad people if they don't buy the Democratic Party line. It's from all the DEI messaging and the trans messaging right down to when I was in law school, Chamath. They taught us that the Constitution, this is a liberal line, was a living, breathing document that could evolve over time. I had no idea that was a liberal line. I thought that was real. So it was shoved to me by professors who were trying to exploit my empathy. Like, it lives and breathes in a way that will allow, you know, due process for people in a way that had never been intended, that will allow the Supreme Court to issue a ruling saying, you. You can't legislate sex at a certain level, like, in a certain way, whatever, to read rights into there that were never in there, like the right to privacy and the right to have an abortion. That's. That's exploiting your toxic empathy anyway. This is. Women are genetically prone to it. Given evolution, given how we are, and these leftist professors and teachers know it, the systems know it, they take advantage of it. And I think we need a little bit more testosterone running through our veins.

Chamath Palihapitiya (30:16)

Do you think it's organized or do you think it's disorganized? But because they all have the same incentive, it all kind of goes in the same direction.

Megyn Kelly (30:23)

It's the latter. It's taught in a way that, you know, I don't know. It's taught in the same way, like, my mom knew how to make the meatballs because her mom knew how to make the meatballs. And now it skips a generation because I don't know how to make the meatballs, Chamath. But I think my daughter's on her way. It's just. You learn it, you see it every week growing up. It's modeled for you by the teachers and the professors you respect. It's assumed that you're gonna go along and you know you're gonna get a pat on the head if you do it, and then before you know it, you're doing it. And like in my case, with the living, breathing Constitution, that's just One example. But, like, you don't know that this is even questionable. It's just taught to you by somebody you respect and you know wanna get a good grade from. It's not so much later where you get exposed to other things. You realize, holy shit, that was a manipulation. So all of this, I just think women can avoid a lot of this. And again, it's not to say everybody needs to work, but women who are bored are dangerous.

Megyn Kelly (31:22)

Okay, there you go. Okay. Let's keep going. Women who are bored may be interested in this next story because they were manipulated, as were men. We were told, during the COVID vaccine mania. And I believe that you were very attuned to this. I think you. I. I don't know why. I think you. I have a lot to.

Megyn Kelly (31:45)

Say.

Chamath Palihapitiya (31:45)

Yeah.

Megyn Kelly (31:46)

But an extraordinary piece of reporting has just come out about the COVID vaccine trials and children. Alex Berenson reported this, and I have been reliably informed that we are fine to go with this reporting and that this will be borne out in the coming days. His headline is, and it was an exclusive to him, the FDA may add a strict black box warning on the MRNA Covid shots for kids and teens, millions of whom have already been given this thing. A black box warning. He reports the FDA may soon place this warning on the vaccines to alert physicians and parents of their link to childhood deaths. This is the strictest an agency can impose this kind of warning. It's generally the last step they take before forcing a manufacturer to stop selling it. They're also considering.

Megyn Kelly (32:43)

An alternative, forcing Moderna and Pfizer to stop selling them to kids and teens, period. The potential move, he reports, follows the FDA's report on Friday that its reviewers had found Covid MRNA jabs killed at least 10 children and adolescents and likely many more. He said they'd asked the FDA for comment. Waiting to hear back. My sources tell me this is safe reporting. This actually is under consideration and we're gonna hear a report confirming this within days from the highest levels. This is an outraged chamath. This was forced on us. Every school, including my own, they were expelling boys who would not take the vaccine once they hit 16 and so on. This is downright dangerous. And it was sold to us by the Fauci Biden Collins administration under Joe Biden that refused to consider actual scientists like Vinay Prasad, who led this. He's leading this within fda, who was an independent physician at Johns Hopkins at the time. And he was saying this at the time, saying these vaccines are calling causing Deadly myocarditis in kids and teens.

Amelia Lewis (33:50)

And.

Megyn Kelly (33:51)

And he was scoffed at. He was marginalized like so many others and tried to dismiss his fringe. And now, thank God, under Trump and Marty Makary, he's been elevated to an important position. Your thoughts on it?

Chamath Palihapitiya (34:02)

Covid is probably the most important historical moment of the last 50 years for the world. And it needs to be understood, I think, in three really important and critical things for the success and the future of the United States. The first is that we did not allow robust thinking and dissenting voices during that period, all the way up to being able to call places like Facebook and places like Twitter and telling them, places like Google and telling them, take this down or, you know, do put a warning on this deboost that, you know, that's the effective equivalent of a black box label for content. If you're not going to create even reasonable disclaimers and just suppress information, what the average person will do is come to a conclusion based on what is available to them. But if what is available to them is a small sliver of the total group think or of the total thought, you're going to get very narrow opinions. And it allowed a small group of people to control the narrative and then to make decisions that is extremely dangerous in a democracy. So that's the first thing that we learned in Covid that has to change. So within that, I think we have to go and uncover all of the true underlying medical research and put it out into the light. You know, the Great Barrington Declaration that Jay Bhattacharya wrote caused them to essentially get defenestrated from Stanford. And yet he turned out to be right as well. There are umpteen examples where very credible scientists were saying, let's just slow down here and think about this. And they were not allowed to say that. And that content was essentially suppressed. So rational, independent thinking people like you and me and your listeners could not come to our own conclusion. So that's number one. The second thing is that what we learned in Covid is, hold on a second. This globalist monoculture has made us super fragile. If somebody in some remote part of the world decides that they don't like what we're doing or saying, they can shut things off. And all of a sudden these supply chains go dark and our entire economy folds in on itself. That cannot be how a robust, resilient country like the United States thrives for the next 250 years like we have in the last 250. So that was, that was the second Big thing. And then the third thing, which we still are not putting our finger on, is we have had a huge setback to kids. It created an enormous deficit from learning and from socialization. And I can speak personally about this myself. With five kids all sheltering in place for that period of time. When I look at the impacts, it's the children at that age that were 6, 7 and 8 who are today 11, 12, 13 and 14 of which I have 1, 2, actually, my gosh, they really took a step backwards in their ability to learn, in their ability to engage. And I don't think we're doing the best for these children who are the future of our country in. In the next 20 or 30 years. So those three things in Covid frankly, caused me extreme frustration. The lack of free speech in democracy, the lack of resiliency in the United States economy that we had created because we just outsourced everything to Davos and their ilk. And then the impact of our kids that we are still not addressing. I think that all of that needs to get put on display and we need to be extremely honest about it. The problem that Biden did at the end, which I thought was extremely offensive, was by pre pardoning all these folks, we essentially allow this get out of jail free card where you can't even interrogate the truth. So you can't even have an accounting for the future. You know, look, we have had huge mistakes in the past in the United States, but we've been able to have commissions. Those commissions can, at a minimum, write reports. Those reports can then be taken by think tanks. We may not agree with this process, but at least at a minimum, there is a way for good, sensible policy to then enter the water table. None of that will be possible here because so much of it is suppressed or because we've already taken all of this stuff off the table. We can never even ask the questions. That is really wrong.

Megyn Kelly (38:32)

Here's the other problem. The media, they were totally complicit.

Chamath Palihapitiya (38:37)

They were complicit.

Dave Aronberg (38:37)

Totally complicit.

Megyn Kelly (38:39)

Totally complicit. They went along with it. Not everyone. I mean, independent media in our lane, all in. And yours truly and Tucker and many others were speaking up against the lies that we were being told, in particular when it came to children.

Megyn Kelly (38:53)

But let me just give you one example. All right? When this was happening, I was listening to Dr. Vinay Prasad. I had never heard of him, but I was very attuned, thanks to Brett Weinstein and many others. I do listen to that. There was a problem with these Covid vaccines, especially when it came to kids. And it led me to Dr. Vinay Prasad. I listened to his podcast all the time and he's a doctor and he was talking real truths about the COVID vaccines and about myocarditis and pericarditis in particular in teenage boys, but teenage girls too, and in kids. And now he's at fda. And now Alex Berenson reporting again. We expect this to break from the highest level soon, reporting that Dr. Vinay Prasad wrote a six page note to staffers saying the real number of children and teenagers killed by the MRNA vaccines is likely much higher than 10 children. After looking at 96 deaths of kids aged 7 to 16, FDA reviewers found 10, quote, died after and because of receiving the COVID 19 vaccination. But that depends on voluntary reporting and is almost certainly a significant underestimate. Prasad wrote. In addition, the FDA reviewers excluded cases where records were ambiguous. And Berenson reports that one of these children died during the Moderna vaccine trial. And what they did with that kid was just to exclude him from. They excluded him. We covered a case like this where we had on a guy who was vaccine injured. He was a biker, a mountain biker. He was vaccine injured during the whole process. And they excluded him from the trial. Was it him and his wife or his wife? I had two on. In any event, they just wrote him out of the trial so they didn't have to count him. So this is what was being done and then those vaccines were made mandatory for our children. I want to say one note to scared parents right now. The information seems to be that God forbid this thing were gonna cause a death, it would have happened like it wouldn't be now, four years later, like, you don't. Yes, of course. Get your child checked for sure. You should. Like, for sure. I'd be having my kid checked if they had a vaccine. But even without the vaccine, if they had Covid, get an EKG, get an EchoCardiogram, that's actually not too expensive. You can get your doctor to order it and just check out their heart. That's all you need to do. But the real danger, period is right after you get the vaccine. So don't worry. If your child had the vaccine and is still fine, you likely avoided it. Scare people.

Chamath Palihapitiya (41:29)

The one great thing is, you know, I know Marty and I know Bobby and Jay. These are three exceptional, exceptional Americans and they are bulldogs for the truth. And so I suspect that if this comes to pass and there is a blackbox label, it's because they've done some pretty thoughtful research and they've rerun the data and they've, you know, included the, the thing is that, you know, you can exclude data, but that data is written down somewhere. So to the extent that they got their hands on this and was able to see it and they decide that the black box label is the right way to go, I really trust those three to, to do the right thing. The, the other thing, the other thing that I'll say is that it would be really incredible over time where we can release some of this data in an anonymized way so that some of these new AI models could rerun some of these statistical analyses just to make sure that all the math was right. I think that's probably something that should happen anyways. You know, that's something that the FDA could do in partnership with Google and Anthropic and OpenAI and Grok as an example. But I think it would give people a lot more certainty that the math and the analysis and the conclusions are defensible, not just in the eyes of the companies who have an economic incentive to get to a yes, but AI models who are trained to just be extremely truthful. And I think that that could be a very helpful new tool in the arsenal of how we as a community, like, let's be honest, Megan, I mean, you and I have both been prescribed drugs. It's really hard to understand what's going on. And you know, I've just assumed that everything is done correctly. I remember that when I once said on the all in podcast, are you allowed to call something a vaccine that is 30 or 40% efficacious? That's when I got some of the most severe pushback ever, just to even ask that question, you know, because when I think vaccine, when I get a vaccine, I'm protected for life. That's what I, that's what I just kind of assumed. And so when I give my kids vaccines, that's what I'm thinking as well. But if I'm taking something that's 30 or 40% efficacious, doesn't seem like a vaccine, it seems like a best efforts attempt, you know, and that's when like, you know, at some point I stopped taking the flu from vaccine because of that, because it's, it's not really a vaccine. It's. My doctor tells me, yeah, 30 or 40% of the time it'll help you. 60% of the time you're on your own. And I wasn't even allowed to ask that question on air.

Megyn Kelly (44:08)

Yep. Well, so the media thing back in. It was October 19, 2022, just to walk down memory lane, and I'd been listening to Vinay and others, and I tweeted out the following because they were. The CDC had just added the COVID vaccine to its list of mandatory or, you know, recommended school vaccinations. And I tweeted out the following. A scary number of kids are dying after taking the COVID vaccine from myocarditis, among other injuries. How dare the CDC add this to its list of school vaccinations. Don't listen. Be very careful with your teenage boys in particular, but girls too. These are not honest brokers. This is dangerous. With an exclamation point. The shitstorm that rained down upon me was massive and ongoing. I'll just give you a couple. The Daily Beast, which is literally wrong about everything all the time, tweeted out, megyn Kelly's anti vax lies are a threat to public health. Daily Beast. You fucking got kids killed. You got kids killed. I saved lives. This show saved lives without question, The Hill. Megyn Kelly faces backlash over Covid tweet. It went on and on. Kara Swisher, Silicon Valley. Speaking of Silicon Valley, this was the issue. Not long after this, literally two days after this, Vinay Prasad I'd been listening to. Literally two days after this, my sister died. Not of COVID it was a long story, but she died. And I was supposed to do Kara Swisher's podcast and I had to cancel. So my assistant texted her saying she has a family emergency. She didn't give up the farm. And Kara Swisher wrote back, oh, I'm sure it's a family emergency. And not just she's afraid to come on now, given the storm around her stupid Covid tweets.

Chamath Palihapitiya (45:59)

I'm really sorry.

Megyn Kelly (46:00)

And Abby was too polite to just shove it down her throat and say, actually, her sister's dead. And by the way, when she found out, she wasn't apologetic. She was. She didn't say, oh, my God, I'm such an asshole. Sorry for being such a jerk. Anyway, that's what was happening. That. That was the reaction to that chamath. Huge storm around me telling the truth. And I did a whole talking points memo on it the very next day. A whole talking point giving me examples of what I was talking about kids who were dying from this. And now we have the FDA finally coming out, about to put a black box warning on this thing, saying it was all true or where. Where's the media accountability. Where's the apology from the Hill, the Daily Beast, from Kara Swisher? Where are. Why won't any of the dishonest brokers come out and say we're sorry?

Chamath Palihapitiya (46:48)

I think that what has to happen are a couple of really important things. The first is that places like you, places like all in.

Chamath Palihapitiya (47:01)

Whoever is willing to just independently call balls and strikes, we have to find a way of growing and thriving. And I think that while we're doing a good job, I think it's still very fragile for independent media. We're still reliant on large distribution channels like Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and Google and X. And at any point, if those fall into the wrong hands or we go back to repressive or regressive regimes around free speech, the ability to talk about an issue from all angles will disappear. That's what we can fix, which is we have to become economically viable to be independent forever. So that even if all of those places at some point say, hey, you know what? I don't like what you're saying.

Chamath Palihapitiya (47:54)

You can somehow get access to satellite Internet and start broadcasting your own thoughts independent of everybody else. Now, what does that require? I think what that requires is extreme privacy and a monetary system that can be shielded. Now, that's a risk today because I think there's still a lot of ways in which wrong think can be punished, and wrong think ebbs and flows depending on who you are. Like, you know, the European government of wrong think is very different than what right. And so, so, and we've seen this, by the way.

Megyn Kelly (48:33)

You guys get, you, you get suppressed, your videos get suppressed, they get lower circulation if you, if you have wrong think in them. And in my case, you know, you.

Chamath Palihapitiya (48:40)

Know, the videos from our summit, I.

Megyn Kelly (48:42)

Get, I get ultimately savaged by the media for something else. They make up some fake controversy to try to diminish my voice because they recognize I'm a threat. Keep going.

Chamath Palihapitiya (48:51)

Look at my. Look at one of my best friends and you know, my bestie on the pod, David Sass. Look, look at this weekend, this huge trash burger that was written by the New York Times. Complete garbage now. And, and frankly, I, I talked to David along the way over these months, just seeing how he was dealing with it. And I was so shocked at how patient he was and how forthright he was, because he was like, there's nothing to see here. And it was five people over five months trying to dig something up. And ultimately when they found nothing, they tried to write the most hurtful headline, probably with the presumption that maybe most people will just read the headline and move on and we will inflict the damage we want to see in what is an incredible American. And I think that the reason why that happens is because they still have an economic leg to stand on. And the faster that the rest of us become economically independent and self assured now we can really compete with those folks. And all of these people that malign you or try to suppress us have a much harder time doing it and then let people come to their own conclusion. They can listen to us and turn it off. They can go and listen to something else. I'm completely fine with that. In the free market of ideas, not everything we say is going to be right but we're going to get stuff more right than wrong most of the time for most people so that they're like at least I'll have it in my diet. And I think the same applies to you. I think the same applies to a handful of other folks. But that's what we need to do. The second thing we need to do is you cannot allow one small cabal of people to control the economic parameters of the United States. That can't happen. And when we outsourced everything to one country and we outsourced all the decision making to a confab in Switzerland once a year, we just completely stop thinking for ourselves and we can't do that anymore. And I think the good, the best thing about the Trump administration is they don't have any tolerance for that.

Megyn Kelly (50:46)

No, none whatsoever. Chamath, we gotta go cuz I'm up against a hard break. Love talking to you. Please come back soon.

Chamath Palihapitiya (50:52)

Great to see you. Happy holidays.

Megyn Kelly (50:54)

You too. Good luck to your family. Hope everybody heals up. We'll be right back. We talk a lot about personal responsibility on this show. Well, here's one aspect that's really important. Your health. And I'm not talking about following whatever the experts recommend. I'm talking about real data driven decisions based on your body's actual numbers. We demand transparency in government but most of us have no idea what's happening inside of our own bodies. Never mind inside of dc Disease can develop silently for years before symptoms appear. By then you're playing catch up with expensive treatments instead of preventing problems when they're cheap and easy to fix. Well, I want to tell you about Jevoty. They are revolutionizing preventative care. Was something radically different. 100 plus blood markers tested at your home. Personalized supplement packs shipped directly to you based on your deficiencies, biannual retesting to track progress, plus ongoing virtual consultations on your schedule. This is healthcare independence and you get 20% off@gojevity.com Megan with code Megan when you check out, that's go G-E-V-I-T-I.com Megan because no one should control your health display decisions but you.

Megyn Kelly (52:04)

Let's be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? The fact is, a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never wanted. But we stick it out and we give reasons. Like what if the next move is worse? I put years into this place and maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you want to be. Your coach helps you clarify your goals, creates a plan and keeps you accountable along the way. Go to Strawberry Me Coaching and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me coaching. Why did we build the first American nuclear plant in 30 years? Because we're leading the way to secure American energy dominance. And why announce over $70 billion in energy infrastructure investments to keep meeting America's energy Demand, win the AI race? And because our 9 million customers deserve affordable, reliable energy to power their homes and businesses at Southern Co. The investments we make today are powering America's energy future.

Megyn Kelly (53:30)

Speaking of this show Getting it right no matter how many hits in the media we take, Fannie Willis is the first topic of today's Kelly's Court. While many of us were enjoying the Thanksgiving holiday, a judge in Georgia officially ended the election interference case against Donald Trump brought by Fulton County DA Fannie Willis in 2023. It was this case that brought us the infamous mugshot that Mr. Trump ended up using on campaign merchandise and that now hangs at the White House. Many in legacy media fawned over Fannie and her case, Harvard law professor Lawrence Tribe once wrote for the Atlantic. Willis determination to deliver on her responsibility to the rule of law exemplifies a civil servant doing her duty without fear or favor. Oh my God, former prosecutor Joyce Vance told msnbc. The prosecution looks like a slight slam dunk. But then good old Fanny blew up the entire case because she couldn't keep it in her pants. It was discovered she had a romantic relationship with the special prosecutor who she hired to lead the case. That news hit the night of January 8, 2024, and within hours, this show called it. Sorry, but we were the truth tellers. We knew Fannie Willis was in trouble and we owned the coverage as it fell apart over the next several months. Watch this.

Megyn Kelly (55:05)

I have so much to tell you about today. And the lead story is unbelievable. Why is it not everywhere? The case against Trump in Georgia.

Megyn Kelly (55:16)

I'm not sure the case itself is going to go away, but the prosecutor might.

Chamath Palihapitiya (55:20)

Might be.

Megyn Kelly (55:20)

Some people might be saying, so they're having an affair. Who cares? You don't understand. The law puts extraordinarily high ethical burdens on prosecutors. Given the power they have, it can't even have the stank of impropriety. Fanny, you're in trouble. I really don't see a way in which Fanny Willis stays. I don't know that the whole case goes away, but she's. I think she's going to go away.

Dave Aronberg (55:40)

We all know that Fanny Willis is toast here. This is going to get a lot worse than for old Fanny and Nathan Wade before it gets better.

Megyn Kelly (55:49)

There have been massive and explosive developments in the Fanny Willis case. She's picking up the documents. It's a lie. It's a lie. No, no, no, no. This is the truth, Judge.

Amelia Lewis (55:58)

It is a lie.

Megyn Kelly (56:00)

It is a lie.

Dave Aronberg (56:01)

Anytime she gets caught in a lie, she lashes out.

Megyn Kelly (56:05)

We have gotten our hands on the texts.

Dave Aronberg (56:07)

These text messages show that Fani Willis and Nathan Wade did in fact have a romantic affair. When you put it together, it probably lights out for Fani Willis and her prosecution team.

Megyn Kelly (56:22)

The folks over at the New York Times are absolutely flabbergasted. Who even knew that this could potentially be a thing?

Chamath Palihapitiya (56:29)

The feeling that a lot of people had when this motion was filed was that it was kind of a Hail Mary, right? And this, there was not much evidence that it was necessarily even true.

Megyn Kelly (56:39)

Actually, just fact check for you, New York Times. Some of us knew exactly what to make of it. If you just have an open mind when it comes to anything involving Donald Trump. Christmas came early. It finally happened. A Georgia appeals court has officially disqualified her from the Trump election interference case. She's gone. She's done. It's over for her and her entire office. And it's official. Another nail in the lawfare coffin against now president elect Donald Trump.

Megyn Kelly (57:10)

Wow, what a walk down memory lane. Joining me now, two of the lawyers who helped walk us through the case falling apart with honest on point Analysis. Phil Holloway and Dave Aronberg, who are both now contributors to the MK True Crime channel, that's its own podcast. If you haven't subscribed, go to wherever you get your podcast, type in MK True Crime, and hit subscribe. We've got a couple of week offerings on true crime around the country, and it's a great show. It's doing really well. Phil, Dave, welcome back. And, Phil, congrats on having that one right from the beginning. Dave, we still love you.

Dave Aronberg (57:47)

Thank you.

Phil Holloway (57:49)

It took me a while.

Dave Aronberg (57:50)

Dave was ever on the other side of that. I thought it was sort of unanimous that we all kind of knew she was going to be going.

Megyn Kelly (57:55)

He would be devil's advocate. I'll say devil's advocate.

Phil Holloway (57:59)

It took me a while.

Phil Holloway (58:02)

You know, at the beginning, Megan, you're right. You're right to call me out because I thought, like others did on my side of the aisle, that, well, you know, there may be some issues here, but the underlying case is strong. It won't affect it. And then as more evidence came out of this and possible lying in court, I was like, yeah, this is going to jeopardize this whole thing. Although I did correctly predict that the judge would remove Nathan Wade rather than Fani Willis.

Megyn Kelly (58:26)

Yep. And then. But then eventually she went and the whole case went. And what a remarkable ending, Phil. You know, it was like. It's fun to walk back to, like, how this all went down January. In fact, most of those clips for the listening audience were all from January, February 2004, leading up to that announcement at the end, December of 2004. Sorry, 24. 2024, that she'd been disqualified and no one believed it was gonna happen. I love that New York Times, the daily clip where they're like, is obviously a long shot. You know, Hail Mary by this weirdo, Ashley Merchant. Like, this isn't going any. Everyone can see it's not going anywhere, but I guess we'll have to entertain it a little.

Dave Aronberg (59:08)

Yeah. So I go back to. I remember, like, the whole thing, obviously, but going back to, let's say, the day or the evening, I guess, of the grand jury indictment, I actually was out doing a live remote with Fox News in front of the full Fulton County Courthouse. And, you know, she comes out, Fanny Willis does, and she has this press conference, and she's in front of this giant podium, and next to her is, among other people, Nathan Wade. And I remember thinking to myself, what in the world is going on here? Right? What is? Because I knew, like, I knew the Guy I knew there was something going on. I mean, it was kind of like one of these things that in my legal community, everybody sort of knew that these two, like, were some kind of an item. And so right then on the spot, it occurred to me, I'm like, this is going to be a problem. And then of course, fast forward to the motion being filed and the other revelations that came out through that motion, and then the, the testimony and the things we've learned subsequently. It's just really remarkable to think back and think about all the different gyrations this case has gone through. But I kind of suspected the moment of the indictment that this was going to be a problem.

Megyn Kelly (60:21)

It's crazy. Like Ashley Merchant, who's also part of MK True Crime, smelled a rat and she continued to follow that lead, that they were allegedly having an affair while he was married and he was working for her on the taxpayer dime and was like a dog with a bone on that story. She would not let it go and ultimately got something.

Dave Aronberg (60:46)

Sorry, Darrell, I forgot to say, you showed a picture just a moment ago of her. Fannie Willis out, you know, with Nathan at that press conference. Look, a confidential source whose name is Ashley Merchant tells me that that giant podium there was something that she, she rented especially for this occasion and continued to rent it thereafter until eventually one was purchased. And also that giant seal that says District Attorney on it, that was something that was also, as I understand, was sort of custom made for the occasion. So the whole thing just reeked of theatrics from the beginning.

Megyn Kelly (61:20)

That's a great tidbit. Wow. The vanity. I'm sure you did that too when you were Palm beach da. Dave Aronberg, did you forget to do that for yourself, that self aggrandizement?

Phil Holloway (61:30)

No, no, no. I used whatever furniture was there from my predecessor, like 10 years prior.

Chamath Palihapitiya (61:36)

So, no.

Megyn Kelly (61:38)

So what do you make of this, Dave? So the official news is that the whole case is now gone because they did appoint a subsequent prosecutor. Well, it was basically this group, the Prosecuting Attorneys Council of Georgia, which Phil told us was exactly who it would go to. It's a nonpartisan group to figure out whether there's another prosecutor who wants to take this case. And lo and behold, the guy who took it, prosecutor Peter Scandalakis, noticed, notified the judge, Scott McAfee, who we followed a lot when he did that DQ hearing, said, we're not going to go forward with this judge. And now, as a result of the judge saying, okay, it's out, like all these defendants It's. It's over.

Chamath Palihapitiya (62:16)

Right.

Megyn Kelly (62:16)

Like, is it. It can't be Rebro. Is it. Is it done with prejudice? Like, can they refile against Trump and these other defendants? And also, my other question is, what happens to the people who copped pleas, like Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis and others, theoretically.

Dave Aronberg (62:32)

Oh, sorry.

Megyn Kelly (62:33)

Oh, David.

Phil Holloway (62:34)

Actually, well, let me take that last part, Phil, and you could take the other part. That last part I have some experience with, because it's up to the prosecutor. The prosecutor could go back and say, you took a plea. I'm now undoing the plea deal. Remember the Robert Kraft case? I had that case in Palm Beach County.

Chamath Palihapitiya (62:50)

Well, he must have fought those charges.

Phil Holloway (62:53)

Yes, yes. And he fought those charges. We got plea deals from all these other guys in advance, and after Kraft was able to win on appeal and the judges said, they threw out all the video, and we said, okay, enough. We can't pursue the case, we went back, and then we undid the plea deals with all the other defendants saying, you guys pled early. You did the right thing, and we're going to undo the prosecution, dismiss everything, because you shouldn't be penalized for copying the plea deal early on, accepting responsibility. And so it's up to the prosecutor here to say, you guys accept responsibility. Why should we punish you from doing, in the prosecutor's mind, the right thing early on? So it's up to them. But otherwise, those plea deals stay, they remain, and I believe they can still go after the other co defendants. I believe this ruling only pertains to Trump, and they will not be able to file it again against Trump. And I would also defer to Phil because he knows Georgia law better than I do.

Dave Aronberg (63:50)

Well, so this is called a null process, Latin for dismissal, and it applies to every remaining defendant who did not take a plea deal. So all the cases are officially dismissed. Not just Trump, all of them. Theoretically, in Georgia, after this null price or this type of dismissal and a charge can be rebrought within six months. However, as we now have seen, there's no other prosecutor in the state of Georgia that's able or willing to take the case, according to the Prosecuting Attorneys Council. Let me me just say Pete Scandalakis is somebody I've known professionally for many, many years. He is, I would say, politically immoderate, but he is always. He's always struck me as a straight shooter.

Chamath Palihapitiya (64:33)

Right.

Dave Aronberg (64:33)

He calls it as he sees it. And he wrote a rather long opinion that he filed with this dismissal that explained his reasoning. But at the end of the day, it's just a matter of. Look, he thinks this thing needs some finality. There's no other prosecutor that wants to take it. It's not feasible for the PAC to do it, even though they can. So no other prosecutor is able to do it. No other prosecutor can do it. He's not going to appoint another prosecutor. He's already made his decision. So that six months is just a hypothetical. It's over. It's not coming back. There will be no re indictment of this case by any prosecutor as far as the ones that have pled guilty. You know, a card laid as a card played kind of like as Dave was describing. And if there were a prosecutor on the case who were willing to go back and somehow undo these things, that might be a possibility. But in Georgia, there are very strict time limits. Those time limits have long since passed. Some of them have actually. I know of at least one, maybe two that have actually tried to withdraw the plea. And the trial judge has denied it, according to Georgia law, for that right to do that. But I think that those people, people will forever remain either convicted or perhaps they get their. What's called first offender discharge.

Megyn Kelly (65:50)

Yeah, you're convicted. A plea is a conviction of whatever they pled to a misdemeanor or felony. I didn't go through them all. Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis, Kenneth Chesbrough and Scott hall, all of whom decided to cut deals to lesser charges. That's really unfortunate for them. They should have put their faith in Ashley Merchant. But who knew she represented one of the defendants, not even Trump, but she was a local lawyer who knew the local courts, the local players, and knew Fannie Willis a little too well for Fannie's taste. Fannie, a man is not a plan, and you chose the wrong man to lay down with. You got the fleas, and now everyone's free. Okay, let's keep going because there's a couple of other interesting cases in the news today, which is why we brought you on the January 6th pipe bomber. So this has gotten a fair amount of coverage, but not as much because it happened right before J6 actually happened on J5, I think, is when the bombs were planted. And this. There was a very explosive, pardon the pun, report in the Blaze recently on this case, which does not seem to have held up. And so the question to you guys is whether the Blaze is about to be hit with a massive defamation lawsuit. Here are the facts as we know them. The pipe bombs, okay? The FBI said an unknown subject placed pipe bombs under a park bench at the DNC and the Capitol Hill Club near the RNC building between 7:54 and 8:16pm the night before January 6th. So January 5th, discovery of the devices between 12:40 and 1:05pm respectively. The next day on J6th drew already depleted police resources away from the Capitol. The FBI released the first photo of the pipe bomber on January 7th. So they do have a picture of this person on surveillance cam offering a $5,000 reward. It later upped the reward to 500,000. The description of the person is 57 with a face mask, gray hooded sweatshirt, dark pants, gloves, distinctive black and light gray Nike Air Max Speed turf shoes. The pipe bomber sits on the DNC bench first, then walks away for several minutes, then walks back and plants the bomb, does another several loops near the RNC and is believed to have then planted the bombs there. Her words showing for the listening audience. Screen grabs of the same person with what we now know are bombs in a bag. Very clear visuals from a ring camera in the alley near the RNC can be seen now. The Blaze, just like two weeks ago if. Yeah, right around there with this big report. It was November 8th by Steve Baker and Joseph Hanneman. A forensic analysis of a female former U.S. capitol Police officer's gait. G A I T, meaning the way one walks, is a 94 to 98% match to the unique stride of the long sought J6 pipe bomb suspect, according to a Blaze News investigation confirmed they say by several intelligence sources. A source close to a congressional investigation of J6 additionally told Blaze News evidence has emerged recently that pointed toward law enforcement possibly being involved in the planning of the pipe bombs. A software algorithm that analyzes walking parameters including flexion, hip extension, speed, step length, cadence and variance rated and I'm going to skip her name since we now have serious reason to believe she did not do it. Of Alexandria, Virginia. A 94% match to the bomb suspect shown on video from January 5, 2021.

Megyn Kelly (69:46)

Now they name her. They go through that how she broke her leg once and that's why they think her gait is off, as they believe is true of the J6 pipe bomber. And yet what we know now is that CBS News reporting she has an alibi, guys. That this woman they named has an alibi showing herself on video with her puppies during exactly the time of the pipe bombs being planted. And the Blaze has not taken down its article remains online, but they've added the following updates. One, they point out that an attorney for the woman told the Washington Post that she categorically denies that she planted the pipe bombs. Two, they point out to the, they point out the CBS News report from November 25 that the FBI has ruled out this person as having any involvement in the pipe bomb plot, citing three sources who are not identified. And three they say, according to cbs, the suspect was cleared after establishing an alibi. Blaze News repeatedly requested such evidence from the FBI. The FBI apparently did not provide that. So the Blaze is sort of. Glenn Beck went on the air, he would not name this person, saying, you know, I don't know, he wasn't comfortable naming her. But the Blaze did name her. So this is like every reporter's worst nightmare, that you go out on a limb with something this incendiary, which is why most of us would not go out on the air with something this incendiary unless we had it, you know, dead to rights. And now the woman's saying she has an alibi. And you tell me, Phil Houston, whether a big old defamation lawsuit is coming.

Dave Aronberg (71:40)

Yeah, it very well could be. You know, and I'm, look, you're the journalist of the three of us. I am not a journalist, I'm simply a lawyer. But I know that there are things called, like junk science, for example, that get a lot of people convicted wrongly in America. And so I know that it's very dangerous to use junk science in a courtroom. So it stands to reason that it would be dangerous to use junk science to name someone as the perpetrator of a crime in a media report. You know, this gait analysis, it hasn't yet met the, the standard. In the United States, we would call that the Daubert standard. It's the standard for the admissibility of scientific evidence. But this, this stuff has a very high.

Dave Aronberg (72:29)

You know, I guess failure rate, upwards of 30% in real world settings. And so you've got variables such as lighting. You got temporary conditions like someone might be injured for the moment, but then they walk a different way later. There's subjective pieces of it that can change from one person to the next, making this comparison. And we don't know what kind of source code goes into this, you know, this software that was used. And so it's the kind of thing that, you know, if you're law enforcement and you want to use this as maybe a tool that might make a suggestion as who you might want to look at. And then you, you know, you'd have to confirm it and verify it through some other type of corroborative evidence. But to use this exclusively to name a suspect seems extremely reckless. In my opinion, something I would not do. And if I were a lawyer representing a media company, I would definitely say, do not do it, because the risk of defamation is extremely high.

Megyn Kelly (73:25)

Same sorry I called you. Phil Houston. That's my CIA spy, the lie guy. But you're both in the business of truth detection. Phil Holloway. Similar, same initials. Dave, what do you make of it?

Phil Holloway (73:37)

You remember the name Richard Jewell?

Megyn Kelly (73:39)

Yeah, yeah, he was.

Phil Holloway (73:41)

Yeah, he was the security officer who was blamed for the Olympic park bombing, and it was false.

Megyn Kelly (73:47)

Most people think he still did it. Most people still think he did that. Keep going.

Chamath Palihapitiya (73:52)

Right?

Phil Holloway (73:52)

No, and that's the problem here. The Blaze could have retracted it and mitigated their damages, but they didn't. They're explaining it away. And that opens them up to punitives because we know now this is not the person who did it. And they're still going with the story, although presenting it all, both sides of it. Here's the issue. She's not a public figure, so it's a much lower burden to prove defamation. And here you had the Blaze relying on an unverified draft memo that came from Tulsi Gabbard's department, along with disputed software, which Phil correctly mentioned. And the fact is that the FBI never charged her. If the FBI had charged her, it'd be a different story. So you have all this stuff that leads to a potentially massive, massive defamation lawsuit. And I don't know why the Blaze would continue to go with the story, because now, in doing so, it's now opening themselves up to punitive damages. Just keeps getting worse for them.

Megyn Kelly (74:49)

Well, I think I love the guys at the Blaze, and I know them to be honest reporters. I think if this is wrong, it's an honest mistake. But I'm gonna guess, Phil, without knowing the only reason they would leave this up is they still believe it. That they, you know, that we say it's an alibi video, but they're saying it hasn't been provided to them by the FBI.

Megyn Kelly (75:11)

Maybe they're not comfortable with CBS's reporting that it's a legit video, the timestamp of which is legit. You know what I mean? Like, they haven't seen it themselves, and they didn't make it up. You mentioned the Tulsi memo, which is, I guess, important to how they got here. And that was, as I understand it, somebody in the DNI's office, Tulsi's office, generated some memo because someone brought a tip to them, is how I understand it. Went down saying maybe it was this gal. And since this gal is still working in the government, they had some sort of an obligation to let her employer know within the government. Yo, this allegation has come in against your employee. You know, look into it, or we're looking into it, or the FBI is looking into it just in case. Like, if she really were a pipe bomber, it'd be something that they'd want to know. And I think that's what somehow got leaked to the Blaze. But even Tulsi's now distancing herself from that, saying, I was out of the country when that shit went down. I don't. I don't have nothing to do with that. And I don't. Like. This is very scary to me as a journalist because it. To me, it feels like they took an unnecessary risk and they're about to get seriously burned.

Dave Aronberg (76:25)

Well, yeah, look, if I'm. I'm wondering where the. The lawyers are in this, because the. The Blaze obviously has counsel, right? All media organizations have counsel. That this is their job is to make sure that their clients don't get in trouble. And, you know, I think that any lawyer would. Would have to say, you need to take this down, issue a retraction, do something. As Dave mentioned, there's a duty to mitigate damages. And so I wonder if it's the thing where the client is saying, we're going to leave it up over the objections of our. Our council, or maybe the council has not, you know, said, take it down. I just don't understand why.

Megyn Kelly (77:04)

Something we don't know. Yeah, exactly.

Dave Aronberg (77:06)

There may be something that we don't know.

Megyn Kelly (77:09)

Like, we. We saw the story because it was everywhere when they first hit it. And we contacted some of our sources in the government, and we were told, stay away. Like, right away, we were told, don't touch it, and we did not touch it. And so I love the Blaze and I hope they do the right thing, and I hope. I don't want to see them get sued, but they're going to if this was wrong. Okay, let's keep going. So there's some interesting information coming out now against Jada Pinkett's Smith and Will Smith. A big old lawsuit. This got, like, the stench of some of the crazy diddy lawsuits around it, some of which were valid and some of which were insane and completely made up. So you guys, tell me what you think this one is. Okay, this is via the Daily Mail, people. Tmz. Lots of them are reporting on this. There's a man named Bailal Salaam. Who made a cameo appearance In Will Smith's 2000 movie the Legend of Bagger Vance, who describes himself. This is him saying about himself as a best friend for nearly 40 years of will Smith. Now, I am being told by a source close to the case, they are not anything close to best friends, nor are they close at all. Like, they're not close. So that this is a glommer. But he's filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles superior court seeking 3. $3 million. And whenever I see $3 million, guys, I think, okay, did someone break your femur or your skull? You know, do you have permanent brain damage? What is it? No, it's intentional infliction of emotional distress. And whenever I see that claim, I think, money grab. We need Mark eiglish in his $20 bill that he likes to hang over the top of the screen and then grabbing it. And a money grab by Sal. Intentional infliction is a bullshit claim in my view and in many courts view, unless it's paired with a serious physical injury. Otherwise, I laugh at those claims. Sorry, Bailal Salaam. I don't mean to prejudge you. Here's the other thing that tells you it's bullshit. Do you guys know what the other big problem is with his lawsuit and how it's being handled?

Dave Aronberg (79:22)

That tells us it's bullshit because he's doing it himself. He doesn't have a lawyer, pro se. Any lawyer with a brain doesn't take this case.

Megyn Kelly (79:30)

So he's representing himself. No bueno. Okay. But let's go through it nonetheless. He spoke to the Daily Mail after filing papers. He said he is seeking justice for the atrocities committed against him by Will and Jada. Atrocities? I tell you. He clarified that while the three counts target Jada, he plans to file against Will as well. He alleges she.

Megyn Kelly (79:58)

Let's see. Her alleged actions, which include her and her emissaries, included trying to bribe, intimidate, and suppress him. He says he suffered damages. The complete derailment of his personal life and career. He's suing Jada for intentional infliction because she denied to TMZ that she had ever seen her husband engage in sexual or intimate behavior with men. Now we're getting to it. He alleges that Jada confronted him in the lobby of the Regency Calabasas Commons on September 25, 2021, while he was at a private birthday celebration for Will Smith. He alleges Pinkett Smith. Jada was accompanied by approximately seven members of her entourage during the confrontation. He claims that she Became verbally aggressive and threatened him by stating that if he continued telling her personal business. That's a quote. He claims that he would end up missing or catch a bullet. He also alleges that she demanded he sign a non disclosure agreement or else. Or else. After the alleged incident, Pinkett Smith's team followed him to his car, he claims, while continuing to issue verbal threats. Six months later, he claims there was another. Another incident where he refused a request from a mutual friend to assist with crisis management. He thought the tasks he was asked to do were illegal. And then he started getting threatened by them, he said. And it turns out he was all this while writing a, quote, whistleblower memoir. My note reads, oh, Lord.

Megyn Kelly (81:32)

Alleging that he faced further threats after that was discovered. He was supposed to get $500,000 for it. And now those hopes have been destroyed as a result of the pressure by these two. Last but not least, before I toss it to you. I'm sorry I have to do it, but I have to do it.

Megyn Kelly (81:53)

This plaintiff. He.

Megyn Kelly (81:58)

Went on a podcast called Unwine with Tasha Kay. And in this interview, he alleged something very, very ugly about Will Smith. It's very, very graphic. It actually does require a viewer warning. Please cover the children's ears. Turn down the sound if they're with you in the car. Moms and dads. But here is what he's saying about Will Smith, which I think now he's claiming Jada denied, thus leading to his emotional distress. Here, watch. Hide the kids. So, all right. I open the door to Duane, dressing room. And that's when I see Duane and having anal sex with Will.

Megyn Kelly (82:39)

Let me process that for a second.

Chamath Palihapitiya (82:42)

Who was on top?

Megyn Kelly (82:44)

It wasn't a top. There was a couch. And Will was bent over on the couch. And Dwayne was standing up, killing him. Murder. Like murder. It was murder.

Chamath Palihapitiya (82:59)

Okay, what did you do?

Megyn Kelly (83:02)

I froze. See, I'm not used to seeing. Listen, it's traumatizing. Like, I've never seen it. I don't watch gay porn. And I finally said, oh, shit. And they turned around, said, close the fucking door. Right? So I back out the door.

Megyn Kelly (83:22)

Okay, Just the final thought again. I am told by someone close to the case that this is a total money grab. This is not a close friend of theirs. This guy's been trying to hustle the family for money for years. And that there was never a meeting where Jada or any of her friends confronted or threatened him at all. So there are real questions about whether this guy has any credibility. But he's filed the lawsuit, and it's getting a fair amount of coverage and attention. What do you make of it? Dave, I'll start with you on this one.

Phil Holloway (83:54)

The strongest allegation he has is that Jada threatened him by saying, you'll catch a stray bullet. But even if that's to be believed, and I don't know if I believe anything this guy says, that allegation is from September 2021. That's well beyond the statute of limitations for intentional affliction of emotional distress. And this guy would know that if he had actually hired a lawyer, but no lawyer would want to file this case because it, it's based on crazy stuff. Like, for example, he says that it's intentional infliction of emotional distress because after she said that to him, he gained 100 pounds. Really? You're gonna blame it on that?

Chamath Palihapitiya (84:32)

No.

Phil Holloway (84:32)

Doctor's note. He just says, I gained 100 pounds.

Megyn Kelly (84:35)

To my mom for intentional infliction for those middle school years.

Phil Holloway (84:39)

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blame. Who are you gonna blame for, like the freshman 15 when you go to college? Right. I mean, it's, it's silly.

Megyn Kelly (84:47)

Also Sam Adams.

Phil Holloway (84:50)

Right, Exactly. You know, he's claiming defamation. What's a defamation? He said that Jada defamed him by saying she would sue him for the sex comments, but never did. That's not defamation. So this is a strategic move to try to get money from Jada and Will Smith and perhaps the win on the court of public opinion. But so far, he's losing badly.

Megyn Kelly (85:14)

My feeling, Phil, is that he's banking that they would pay money to avoid that soundbite getting rerun on this show or Entertainment Tonight or tmz. He thinks they have enough money and they care enough about Will's reputation that they would pay to stop the airing of these mere allegations. But these allegations have been out there for years about these two. If they paid off anybody who was like, alleging Will was bisexual or gay, whatever, they'd have no money left.

Dave Aronberg (85:43)

Yeah, well, Will Smith and Jada Smith, they have enough money to hire good lawyers to sue him for defamation and other things. Unlike this guy who apparently could not find a lawyer to take his case. Normally these things are taken on a contingency basis. So any lawyer with the brain, for all the reasons Dave let let laid out, we just would not want to touch this with a 10 foot pole because there's not going to be any recovery. Listen to what has to be proven. And I actually had to go back and look this up to make sure I was remembering this from law school, correctly. But this intentional infliction of emotional distress requires that someone intended the emotional distress. And the defendant's actions must go beyond all bounds of defense. Decency tolerated by society, often described as shocking or egregious. And then, in addition to that, the defendant's alleged conduct must be the actual cause of the emotional distress. And it's got to be severe emotional distress, not just hurt feelings or anything like that. Phil, you know, look, it's got to be serious and of a nature that no reasonable person could be possibly expected to endure. It may now. So the. The things that have to be proven are a lot. And, you know, you're going to have to have some really solid evidence. Not to mention the fact that the claim is stale. It's old, but you got to have really solid evidence. And I'm sorry, but if you gained 100 pounds, it's going to be very difficult to try to, you know, pinpoint how that happened.

Phil Holloway (87:16)

Not to mention the fact I have.

Megyn Kelly (87:17)

It on good authority is going to be against Aunt Jemima. I. I wanted quickly just touch on Luigi Mangione. We reported the other day on AM Update. He's been in court this week trying to get the evidence that was found in his backpack, which included his 3D gun. A note that appears to read like a confession.

Megyn Kelly (87:38)

Thrown out because the cops, when they confronted him in that McDonald's, searched the backpack incident to the arrest. They arrested him. He hadn't yet been read his Miranda rights, and when they arrested him, then they searched his backpack, but they actually questioned him before reading him as Miranda. And he's claiming that it was an invalid search. It was illegal under his Fourth amendment rights because it hadn't been Mirandized. I mean, now, this is. What. You did this. A lot of this stuff for a living, Dave, Is he onto something? How do you think this judge is gonna rule?

Phil Holloway (88:10)

The judge is gonna reject this request. It's a normal request by defense lawyers to suppress key evidence. I don't blame his very fine lawyers for trying, but they're not gonna win on this. There is something called a search incident to arrest, as you mentioned, which is an exception to the warrant rule. When you arrest someone, you can search around him. What they're saying is that, well, he was handcuffed, so he had no access to his backpack. It shouldn't have been a threat. Yeah, but if it's on his or next to his person, they can still search it. Then they say, well, maybe it was searched before the arrest. Now, if that's the case. They, they have a little better argument. But apparently everything I've read said it was searched incident to the arrest, as part of the arrest. But even if it was searched prior to the arrest, they could get away with it because exigent circumstances or they have a right to stop and frisk him. And it could relate to the backpack. After all, he has been alleged to murder someone and they're on high alert. They don't want this guy to pull out a device, a gun or have a bomb in his backpack. So there are many reasons, reasons why you don't need a warrant there. So it's a noble try by the defense lawyers, but it's not going to work.

Megyn Kelly (89:14)

How about all the questioning before they actually read him as Miranda rights? Phil?

Dave Aronberg (89:18)

Yeah, this is a common misperception. We all grow up watching crime shows and you see, you know, you got the right to remain silent and all that as soon as the cuffs go on. So people assume that you have to read Miranda rights, but otherwise the case gets thrown out. But it's not true. Miranda only applies to what we call a custodial interrogation. So number one, the person's got to be in custody and two, it's got to be an interrogation, questioning by the police. Think about every time you get pulled over for speeding, the cops can come up to you. I can ask you questions, do you know why you, why are you speeding? And all this kind of stuff. They don't have to read you your rights simply because they are doing an investigative type of stop. So this is much ado about nothing. There's nothing wrong with the question, questions that were asked prior to the handcuffs going on. There's nothing wrong with the search. There's nothing wrong with the questioning that was done after the Miranda rights because after all, he committed a state law crime by providing a false name to these officers. So I see no problem with it. And like Dave said, the defense lawyers, they need to do this. This is part of being a zealous advocate. But just because they raised the claim doesn't mean it's going to be valid. There's all sorts of of reasons the judge would deny their claims. And even if they did something wrong that Dave and I have missed, there's something in the law known as inevitable discovery. An appellate court would say that no matter what, they would have eventually searched this bag and found this stuff as part of the inventory process. You've got to inventory somewhere.

Megyn Kelly (90:50)

The inevitable discovery rule was what I argued my they called it c senior prize trials in my law school, a competition that we won on inevitable discovery. And by the way, they did teach us in criminal procedure. If you ever get arrested and you want to assert your Fifth Amendment rights, which you should to a lawyer, you should say, I assert my fifth and sixth Amendment rights to counsel. There's a whole reason for doing that in law. But you should say both mention both amendments and that'll really impress your arresting officer in one of the many, many times Phil assumes you've been pulled over by the cops.

Chamath Palihapitiya (91:22)

I love that.

Megyn Kelly (91:23)

You know, many times, I mean, there have been a couple. I'm not gonna lie, guys, it's a pleasure. Thanks for coming on.

Dave Aronberg (91:30)

Always happy to be here, Megan.

Megyn Kelly (91:32)

All right. Up next, a story exclusive to the MK Show. You will not hear it anyplace else. And it's amazing. We helped solve a crime. That's next. The tax extension deadline may have passed, but for millions of Americans, the real trouble is just beginning. If you missed the October 15th deadline or owe back taxes, the IRS is ramping up enforcement. Every day you wait only makes things worse. And here's the harsh reality. The IRS can charge a penalty of 5% per month, up to 25% of your total tax bill just for not filing. They they're mean over there. That's in addition to what you already owe. The good news, though, is that there's still time for Tax Network USA to help you self employed or a business owner. Even if your books are a mess, they've got you covered with tools like property seizures, bank levies and wage garnishments. The IRS is applying pressure at many levels. It's not too late to regain control. Your consultation is 100% free. In one short call, the experts at Tax Network USA can determine how much you can save. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan Let Tax Network USA help before the IRS makes the next move.

Megyn Kelly (92:45)

Why did we build the first American nuclear plant in 30 years? Because we're leading the way to secure American energy dominance. And why announce over $70 billion in energy infrastructure investments to keep meeting America's energy Demand, win the AI race. And because our 9 million customers deserve affordable, reliable energy to power their own homes and businesses. At Southern Company, the investments we make today are powering America's energy future.

Megyn Kelly (93:17)

Hey, everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel. And it is where you will hear the Truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren Maureen Callahan, Emily Jinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the SiriusXM app.

Megyn Kelly (93:51)

Earlier this week I reposted on X a horrifying video of she's not my friend, but she's a dear friend of my friend and she was violently attacked on the streets of New York City in broad daylight. This is an NYU student named Amelia Lewis. She was walking to class around 9:20 in the morning on Monday just a couple days ago when a man came up from behind, struck her and yanked her to the ground by her hair. Let me tell you what happened here. My dear friend is the mother of Amelia's best friend at nyu. And so my friend Nancy texted me the video of Amelia talking about this on TikTok. She went on TikTok immediately and was upset. I'm like, what is this? She said, it just happened. This is outrageous. I'm like, this is outrageous. I said, is she on X? You know I'm not personally on TikTok. Our show's on TikTok, but I'm not personally on there. And she's like, she's not. I'm like, tell her to get on X. So she went over, she created an account on X and tweeted the video. She has a new account. I retweeted it, calling attention to it, saying we need help identifying this guy. And can I tell you what happened? The ex army went to work. I tagged the NYPD and the NYPD police chief and then some other people I know who are very connected to NYPD retweeted it and added other ccs who they knew would pay attention. And this thing started to go viral online on Monday. And guess what? Police confirmed late yesterday the arrest of 45 year old James Rizzo, who has been charged with persistent sexual abuse, forcible touching and assault. And now we're learning even more about this guy's deeply disturbing history. Sixteen prior arrests, a two year sentence for persistent sexual abuse, and even a 1997 murder charge. Amelia Lewis joins me now. And also we've brought in Summer Armstrong who is my family friend and also her mother's my dear, dear friend. Who helped obtain the footage of Amelia's attack, both NYU students. And Summer was also assaulted herself in New York last May. Gals, welcome to the show. It's great to have you.

Amelia Lewis (96:13)

Hi. Thank you so much for having us.

Megyn Kelly (96:15)

Of course. Oh, my God. I'm like, this is like a horrifying story, but it's also kind of uplifting in its own way. So I'm gonna start with you, Emelia. What? So you're walking down the street on Monday morning. This is the first day back from Thanksgiving. You're in a good mood, I assume, as you've been with your family. And how did you experience. We'll show the video, but how did you experience this attack?

Chamath Palihapitiya (96:36)

Yeah.

Amelia Lewis (96:36)

As you said, it was Monday morning, about 9:20am I was crossing the street, walking up south of Broadway, right by Waverly Place, and in broad daylight. I felt a extremely painful and hard whack to my butt. And then I turned around and was shocked to see a middle aged man. And he proceeded to grab my hair and violently and forcefully throw me to the ground.

Megyn Kelly (97:06)

You were you totally shocked? Like, you had. Did you have any idea you were in danger as you were walking?

Amelia Lewis (97:11)

I had no idea. As you can see in the clip that you're gonna show, he targets me and follows me from behind. So there was. This is right before I could have seen it.

Megyn Kelly (97:23)

Okay, so just for the listening audience, we're seeing a street cam and people are walking. Now, here comes Amelia. She circled, she circled herself helpfully. On this video, she's got her jeans on, she's walking. She's got his headphones on. There's a man coming up. He's running to catch up with her. He wails her from behind. She turns around in shock. And then you can see her go down. You see all, what, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 women on the sidewalk, stunned, stunned at what just happened to you. And then, like, lovely New York women come over to help you, which is sweet. And I understand there was a man who came to help you, too. So what happened? Like, where did he hit you, Amelia?

Amelia Lewis (98:01)

So he initially first hit me on the left side of my butt extremely hard. And then after that, it's when he pulled my hair to the ground.

Megyn Kelly (98:11)

After that. You say it again.

Amelia Lewis (98:13)

He pulled my hair to the ground.

Megyn Kelly (98:15)

Oh. And then just ran.

Amelia Lewis (98:18)

Ran.

Megyn Kelly (98:19)

So did you get a good look at him?

Amelia Lewis (98:22)

I only got a look at him for three, like a quick second. I only could see that he had a beard and long hair, and I could tell that he was a white, older male. And. But after that, he threw me to the ground. And in shock, I just kind of laid there for a bit.

Megyn Kelly (98:39)

Okay, and what happened with the passersby.

Amelia Lewis (98:43)

So I could tell that they were also in shock. They kind of stood there and stared at me for a second, but after a bit, they came and lifted me off the ground and kept asking, like, are you okay? Are you okay? They asked if I knew this man, which I said, I do not. And then later on, a man helped me. Call 91 1.

Megyn Kelly (99:03)

And what made you go on TikTok shortly thereafter and post your reaction?

Amelia Lewis (99:11)

I really wanted to bring awareness to the stuff that has been happening to young women in New York City. I've heard so many stories, and on my TikTok, I say, I never thought that this would happen to me, but it's really sad. This is something that happens all the time in New York, and I really want to make sure and use my voice to raise awareness and help other girls stay protected and also help other girls that have maybe gone through the same experience as I.

Megyn Kelly (99:38)

Because this has been happening over and over and over to young women in New York. The stories are legion. They go on and on. You were aware of that?

Amelia Lewis (99:51)

Yes. I mean, the news on TikTok, a woman was just thrown with gasoline and set on fire. The stories are insane and it's horrific.

Megyn Kelly (100:04)

Yeah. So this isn't like when you go to nyu. Your campus is New York City. So it's not like you're not on campus exactly. It's a public street, but you were on your way to class. And so it's a place where you would expect to be safe. So you decide after this happens, you did decide to call the cops, to your credit, because a lot of women would not have done that.

Amelia Lewis (100:26)

Yes, exactly. I first was in shock and didn't know what to do. But after the man approached me holding his phone with 911, I decided to call the cops just because I wanted to report this. And after I did tell the cops, I decided to also let NYU security know so they could alert other students around campus to let them know that this man is going around doing this to other women.

Megyn Kelly (100:49)

And what were your hopes that the NYPD was actually going to hunt down this man and find him at that point?

Amelia Lewis (100:59)

I had high hopes. They were very understanding and kind, and they were also told me that they were already aware of the man and the blue towel around his neck running around the city and getting this guy. But I definitely think because of your platform and also X, it helped really put pressure on them to really find this guy and work quickly. So even though I had hoped that they would find this guy, I really don't know if this would get as much attention as it did if it wasn't for X and also for Summer going and getting the footage.

Megyn Kelly (101:31)

So that's key, because even if I had posted it to X and retweeted your tearful testimonial, it would have been different without the actual video of the assault. And that's where summer comes in. Summer, you and Amelia are dear friends. What made you think to go to the store to say, do you have video of this?

Summer Armstrong (101:53)

I mean, right when I got Amelia's text, I was in class, and I got a horrible sinking gut feeling because this has also happened to me, and I was lucky enough to have footage. In my case, unfortunately, my assailant was not caught. But I knew that footage is key in this, and I knew that it was in front of stores. And so my first thought was, we need to get this footage, and we need to catch this guy.

Megyn Kelly (102:19)

So was it a liquor store you got it from? Whose camera captured it?

Summer Armstrong (102:23)

Yeah, Warehouse Wine and Spirits on Broadway.

Megyn Kelly (102:26)

Did you go there? Did you just call there? How did you get it?

Summer Armstrong (102:29)

I walked in. I was on FaceTime with Amelia, and I just said, my friend was assaulted. Please can you go through this time frame of footage and see if you have it? Because I'm pretty sure you guys have a camera facing, and lo and behold, they found it.

Megyn Kelly (102:46)

Oh, my God. And it's so clear. It's great footage. Awesome. And on top of it being so clear, it is the reason I think you actually got results in this case. If I had just retweeted Amelia's testimonial, I really don't think this would have drawn as much attention. It's the fact that we can see the crime. It's so infuriating. And you wanna punch this guy in the face. Every man on X was resolved to help you at this point. Amelia, having seen what he did to you, and everybody knows, it's not like, forgive me, but like some hysterical college student saying something that may not have happened or she may be exaggerating. They can see for themselves this is an assault. It really was a sexual assault, which is what this guy has an alleged long history of doing. So now the story starts going viral on X, and the NYPD sees it. They told us they did see it on X. And now we're gonna pick up the story there after this break. Quick break. Don't go anywhere, ladies. More to come right after this as we continue the show. You know about fomo, right? Fear of missing out. But Listen up. Don't miss out on protecting your future. For around the same price per month as one of your streaming services, you can break the FOMO cycle and secure your family's future by finding life insurance@selectquote.com select' takes the guesswork out of finding the right life insurance policy. You don't have to sort through dozens of confusing options on your own. Instead, one of their licensed agents will find the right policy at the right price for you. Comparing prices from top, most trusted insurance companies to find a policy that fits your health, your lifestyle, and your budget. And they work for you for free. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%.50@SelectQuote.com Megan save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com Megan today to get started.

Megyn Kelly (104:40)

We're back now with Amelia and Summer, two NYU students who have both been attacked in New York City recently, right on the street. And thanks to the collective effort of these young women and the Twitter army, Amelia's assailant has been caught and is in custody right now. We just found out that he has a court hearing today. We believe he's gonna get arraigned today. He's in custody. And we just found out, Amelia, that he's a registered sex offender. Here he is. His name is James Rizzo, the man accused of really, it was a sexual assault because he hit you so hard on the backside. I don't know if that's an okay term for you. It implies something that didn't happen as well, but it was a vicious assault by any measure, and that his name is James Rizzo, so he will be answering to those charges. There is video of his arrest as a reporter tries to ask him some questions. Let's watch.

Megyn Kelly (105:36)

James. James, what's wrong with you? Why do you keep attacking women? Good questions, James. Help us understand. Why do you keep attacking women?

Chamath Palihapitiya (105:47)

What were you doing inside that apartment?

Megyn Kelly (105:49)

What's wrong with you? James?

Megyn Kelly (105:53)

James, anything you want to say to your victims?

Chamath Palihapitiya (105:58)

Give the car a little space.

Megyn Kelly (106:02)

And let me tell you something, Amelia. You're a very lucky woman because as you probably know now, he just got out of state prison two months ago where he served a two year sentence for a, quote, prison, persistent sexual abuse conviction. And as I mentioned at the top, he actually had a murder charge against him back in 1997, the status of which is unknown. So this is a very dangerous man, and this could have been far, far worse. Not to Diminish what happened. But as you see his face there up close and you hear that he's on the sex offender registry, how does that make you feel?

Amelia Lewis (106:41)

Honestly, Terrified. And also grateful at the same time. I'm so grateful I wasn't alone on a dark, abandoned street with no people around. And also I'm so thankful that no weapons were involved because this could have been so much worse knowing now who he actually is.

Megyn Kelly (107:01)

Yeah, seriously. And they caught him later that day, by the way. His rap sheet includes charges that he grabbed a woman's breast in Manhattan in December of 23, allegedly snapping at the victim. Oh, you want more? He was caught yesterday, allegedly in the act of burglarizing an apartment near Washington Square Park. He was also charged with four burglaries, three of which while the residents were sleeping. Which is good for you. I mean, it's better if he has more charges. He's more likely to stay behind bars, which has to be a concern of yours. I'll round back to that in one second. Summer, I know you and your family very well, and I did not know that you were assaulted last spring. I think that's because it's like, common. It's not even that huge a headline for young women in New York anymore.

Summer Armstrong (107:57)

Yeah, I.

Summer Armstrong (107:59)

I, this is one of the most frustrating parts about the situation because I think as women we are told this always happens. But what the narrative needs to be is this always happens and there's something done about it. I didn't go public my attack because it honestly was very traumatizing and hard to talk about. I was struck in the face by a 35 year old man. And I was struck because he was verbally assaulting my friend. And I asked a simple question to try to deter him away, and he responded with immediate and hard violence.

Megyn Kelly (108:38)

Wow. What time of day was that?

Summer Armstrong (108:41)

It was around 10. So it was a little different from Amelia's case, which was in broad daylight.

Megyn Kelly (108:48)

Okay. And did you ever, like, how do you know he was 35? Was he apprehended?

Summer Armstrong (108:54)

He was not. That's just my guess. Unfortunately, it became a cold case. He was not found. But crazy enough this summer, I was on a lunch break and I saw him walking around.

Megyn Kelly (109:07)

Oh, wow.

Summer Armstrong (109:08)

Yeah.

Megyn Kelly (109:09)

So that was traumatizing.

Summer Armstrong (109:11)

Yeah, yeah, it was very scary.

Megyn Kelly (109:14)

And not in the way that people use that term, trauma. You know, too many times, like this, this guy did assault you. And like, this Rizzo guy may have a history of sexual assaults, rapes, attempted murders, who knows where. Like you actually do need to worry. And one of the reasons you both need to worry, unfortunately. And I have a daughter too. I need to worry. Even I, as a 50 some odd year old woman, need to worry is now, let's face it, the New York cops will arrest these guys, but the DA and the court system, nine times out of 10, will not keep them incarcerated. It's in large part due to cashless bail where they believe it's racist. So they don't require any bail of these guys. Which leads to the revolving door of I'm here, I'm James Rizzo.

Amelia Lewis (110:04)

Goodbye.

Megyn Kelly (110:04)

I'm already out back on the streets. And I hope this won't happen in your case, Amelia again, because he has other charges too. I don't believe that the New York courts will take side sexual assault seriously. I really don't. I have a history of reasons to believe that.

Megyn Kelly (110:19)

But are you worried now about either Alvin Bragg, the DA not taking this seriously enough, or the courts not taking this seriously enough to where he's going to be back out on the streets too soon.

Amelia Lewis (110:31)

So they have contacted me the other day and I'm going in and speaking to them. So I don't have really much to say yet until I go in and just hear what they're gonna ask me and what their stance is on this case right now. But I'm praying, I'm praying they take this seriously because I don't know how I'm supposed to go back to school and go back to my normal life knowing that he's still on the street and because of how much publicity the story has gotten. It just makes me really scared.

Megyn Kelly (111:06)

Yes, but it also is your insurance policy. You know, it's, I think, also a reason why maybe they will pay attention because now they know that there really will be follow up. Oh, I assure you there will be follow up. If this guy walks because of Alvin Bragg or a judge who's too lenient on crime, I'm happy to go sit in any courtroom where you need me. I will sit in the front row. I'll bring my camera. It'll be super fun for everyone. And we'll make Alvin Bragg an even bigger star than he is. So that's fine. Maybe he doesn't care. I'm gonna make him care. And any judge who decides this is not a big because it is about you, but it's about far more than you. It's about summer. It's about all the young girls who just weren't doing anything risky. Not that I would blame you, even if you had been, but you're literally Summer, like you're walking on the street. You were walking to class, Amelia. Like, this cannot be. This is what shatters a society. There has to be a basic covenant. You go off to college, even if it's in a city. You can just get from A to B without being in a dark alley, without doing a drug deal. Right. Just living your life as a normal, law abiding citizen that you can make it from A to B safely. And you must. It must have been very destabilizing, Summer. You've had a longer time to process it.

Summer Armstrong (112:17)

Yeah, it definitely. I would say it kind of came in waves. I remember short thereafter, I was in an elevator and a man that kind of looked similar walked in, and I just froze. And it. It sticks with you, but it doesn't define.

Summer Armstrong (112:36)

How I feel in general. I definitely think it's made me way more precautious when walking and when interacting with people that are mentally ill. But I. I'm proud to go to nyu, and I'm proud to live in the city, but there has to be things done about this. There has to be more concern about NYU student safety around campus.

Megyn Kelly (113:01)

Well, where's NYU on this? I mean, it's not their. Again, it's their campus, but it's not their city. But where are they? Cause I'll tell you, back in the dark ages, when I was at Syracuse University, there was a rash of rapes, and they started installing these rape phones all over the campus, like, everywhere. So if you were in trouble, you could immediately pick up one of these phones and call campus security. But what is NYU doing, Amelia? Have they said anything to you about what are they doing to keep their students safe?

Amelia Lewis (113:31)

So right after I reported my incident, they were very helpful and gave me all the resources to process what happened. And as well as they reassured me that they're going to take the next steps for campus safety, they have not reached out to me saying what they're doing, but I made sure to.

Amelia Lewis (113:54)

Highlight how a lot of NYU students weren't aware of what happened to me that day. And I just wanted to let them know that they need to be better on communicating with NYU students and that they should all know when things like this happen.

Megyn Kelly (114:09)

Is there anything, you know, I look at that tape, Amelia, we should roll it one more time so people can see it. I look at that tape, and I don't see anything you could have done differently. I mean, some people were like, don't wear headphones. But even if you hadn't been wearing headphones. You had like one second to realize you were about to get hit. Like, I just, I'd be the first to say, amelia, don't wear headphones. If I thought that would have saved you. To me, I don't see that at all on this tape. I don't know if there's anything you could have done differently, but how do you see it?

Amelia Lewis (114:38)

Yeah, I definitely have been getting a lot of comments saying, don't wear headphones in the city. I definitely agree. I think that all women just for right now, please do not wear headphones. Always be aware. You should have your head on a swivel constantly. But in my case, I really don't see how it played any role because he ran up from behind and hit me. There was nothing I could have done. But yeah, also people are saying, like, you should get out of the city.

Summer Armstrong (115:06)

Run.

Amelia Lewis (115:06)

And I transferred to nyu. My dream was to go to nyu. I just moved to the city and my dream was to live in New York City. And it's the greatest city in the world. And you know, New York is always going to come back and so will Summer and I after these experiences. And I want to reassure and tell everyone that experiences like these aren't going to defeat me and other people. And I'm not going to let this man disintegrate my dream.

Megyn Kelly (115:34)

Good. Good for you. And honestly, it's like getting struck by lightning. I mean, the odds of actually becoming a crime victim are slim. Even still in New York City, the odds of it happening twice, even slimmer. So hopefully you will feel empowered. And hopefully, you know, you girls, you can go, you can take Krav Maga, you can get pepper spray. You cannot get a gun in New York City. It's impossible. All our friends watching this in Texas are like, why don't you just get a gun? Texas friends are like, why wouldn't they be carrying? They don't understand, like, you literally cannot get a gun unless you have, you know, some serious threat against you. You can get some brass knuckles. You figuratively already have the brass knuckles now, girls, because you did everything a woman can do. I mean, really, I think nine out of ten women probably wouldn't have called the cops because they would have realized the odds of something happening. Them actually following up, sadly, are very slim. And I don't know, I mean, not to go political, but do you worry because now we have a soft on crime mayor about to take over who says things like this, I'm going to play SOT 42.

Chamath Palihapitiya (116:45)

The jail population of Rikers has increased since Eric Adams has come into office by more than a thousand additional incarcerated New Yorkers. And what is quite staggering to me is that we know that we can reduce that jail population to less than four vital city had an article about a number of different proposals that could reduce it to 3,700. And some of this also just has to look at.

Chamath Palihapitiya (117:14)

The average stay on rikers in the 90s was 50 days. Now it's more than 100. There are more than 1500 people on Rikers who have been held there for more than a year. So I do think many of the reforms that have to be made are also reforms around.

Chamath Palihapitiya (117:29)

The court system.

Megyn Kelly (117:32)

So he's talking about opening up Rikers and letting out the people who are in there by the thousand. There's also still no promise of getting rid of cashless bail. We also have a serious problem with the judges who are on the bench. So I do wonder whether that adds to any of your concerns. Amelia.

Amelia Lewis (117:52)

When I spoke out and decided to share my story, I didn't really have the goal of making this kind of any way political. I mostly just wanted to do this for basic human safety. So after all this, I really hoping that he and everyone else that is in office and in power is seeing what's going on in New York and actually going to do something about it. Because if we're going to have these people in office, their priority should be their citizens safety.

Megyn Kelly (118:21)

It's really scary when you think of the population of Rikers in March. Summer was 7,000. So he's talking about letting out half, half of the criminals who are in there now. In addition to this revolving door we have in our court system thanks to the prosecutors who are soft on crime and the courts, the judges who go right along with it. And they are not the ones who are going to have to walk on the streets and be assaulted. The DA is a man. The judges tend to be men who are bald and 70. I have practiced in these courts for many, many years. And they are not the targets. They are not young, beautiful girls in the prime of their youth walking around just trying to get an education. Your thoughts on it?

Summer Armstrong (119:05)

It's definitely scary. And I think in the face of this, we have to focus.

Summer Armstrong (119:14)

On girls for girls and people for people. We're all living, no matter who's elected, we're all still living here. And if we protect each other, whether that's men protecting girls, girls protecting girls, girls protecting men even, we need to do that for each other. No matter who's in power.

Megyn Kelly (119:34)

Well, sadly, that's right. I mean, that's the best option you have because it just doesn't seem they're capping the number of cops under this new mayor. They're not adding more. They've already had their hands tied. I mean, it's not a good situation. Thankfully, you're sophomores, so maybe you don't have that many more years to worry about it. But I think self defense classes would be good. They at least feel empowering. And you, I hope, are feeling a little more empowered, like today, for example, Amelia, and you, too, Summer, than you were right after it happened on Monday.

Amelia Lewis (120:09)

I definitely am. I posted on my ex saying it honestly is helping me sleep at night, knowing that I used my voice, as many other women weren't able to, to try to get this guy off the streets. And it makes me so happy that he isn't going to be able to hurt any more young women.

Megyn Kelly (120:31)

Right. How about you, Summer? You feel differently about it now? Like, you had two, you know, you got assaulted, and now what? You know, six months later, seven months later, it happens to your friend. But because of what happened to you, you knew what to do, you took action. And it's directly as a result of what you did that this guy was caught. If that video, if you had not gotten that video, I promise you, even I could not have made this a national story.

Summer Armstrong (120:57)

I'm feeling really hopeful after this whole situation. I mean, a horrible thing happened. But the silver lining is that there is now an attention on this. And I think we all have to have that fire in us to be either ready to pick someone up after they're hit to the ground or get the footage for someone. We all have to be ready and willing to help each other because that's all we can do in this situation.

Megyn Kelly (121:25)

I love, Amelia, that it was a man who came over to you with his phone out, having dialed 911. Right. Like that man who assaulted you. And the one who assaulted you, Summer, did not represent, as you guys both know, the men of America or New York. The guy with the cell phone and the 911 ready to dial does. God bless you. Let us know if you need us at all. And thank you so much for telling your story here.

Summer Armstrong (121:50)

Thank you so much.

Megyn Kelly (121:52)

All right. Lots of love. Wow, what a story. Okay, this is the first time we actually ran over on our SiriusXM Megyn Kelly channel, so we can do that now. I'll pass it over to Emily Jasinsky. Thank you all for listening. Listening. We're back tomorrow with Michael Knowles. See you then. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.