← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Fraud Crockett's Defeat, Michelle Obama's New Racial Complaints, and Trump's Iran "War" Question, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1265
01:41:42
Megyn Kelly discusses Jasmine Crockett’s defeat in the Democratic Texas Senate primary, her absurd persona that didn't convince voters, how secretly extreme primary winner James Talarico really is, and more. Then Glenn Greenwald, host of “System Update” on Substack, joins to discuss Jasmine Crockett’s fraudulent backstory and political irrelevance, soft-spoken white guy James Talarico’s actually very extreme views and woke past comments, the new Atlantic profile fawning over Pete Buttigieg, talking about his new beard and establishment cred, Michelle Obama’s new interview with Conan O'Brien, her latest complaints about race and Donald Trump, the latest messaging from the Trump administration about the strikes in Iran, the questions about whether it's actually a "war," Israel's involvement in driving this decision by the U.S., the bizarre social media effort to falsely label Megyn an “anti-semite,” her long support of Israel and pro-Jewish history, and more. More from Greenwald- h...
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- [00:00]
Glenn Greenwald
By order of the Peaky Blinders Academy Award winner Cillian Murphy returns alongside an all star cast including Rebecca Ferguson, Tim Roth, Sophie Rundle with Academy Award nominee Barry Keoghan and Emmy award winner Stephen Graham. In Netflix's upcoming film Peaky Blinders, the Immortal Man Tommy Shelby must face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to the ground. Peaky Blinders the Immortal man is in select theaters March 6th and on Netflix March 20th.
- [00:29]
Megyn Kelly
March.
- [00:29]
Glenn Greenwald
Rated R. So good.
- [00:31]
Megyn Kelly
So good. So good. New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And that means so many new reasons to rack because I always find something amazing.
- [00:43]
Glenn Greenwald
Just so many good brands because there's always something new.
- [00:46]
Megyn Kelly
Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free.
- [00:56]
Glenn Greenwald
Great brands, great prices.
- [00:58]
Megyn Kelly
That's why you rack. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. We have major developments to update you on in America's bombing campaign against Iran as debate over whether we're actually, quote, at war or not becomes a new talking point. But first, a glimpse at the future of the Democratic Party. If you've been watching any left wing media of late, you have probably noticed that they were excited about both of the major candidates who ran in the primary to be the Democrats nominee for Senate. In Texas. James Talarico, a Texas state rep who is a Christian minister in training, faced off against Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, who, as viewers of this show know, is well known for making some of the wildest claims of anyone in the Democratic Party and also appears to be a ridiculous diva who has her staff carry her bag around for her, carry her little pillow around for her, stuffing it behind her back so she's seated just so while she's on the Hill acting like she's there as, you know, Queen Elizabeth as opposed to a duly elected House representative. Also somebody who goes from sounding like a normal American from Texas when she gives her interviews when she first gets elected to someone who sounds like she's from the street when she's in front of a certain camera set with the eyelashes and the fake nails. Okay, so there's absolutely nothing genuine about this person and it turns out Texans knew it. For the folks on ms, now you're thinking about these two, Talarico and Jasmine Crockett. Well, they could not decide who they loved more. Watch especially by Crockett and Talarico. They're two of the most effective communicators in the entire Democratic Party right now.
- [03:07]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, when we were seeing the leaderboard there, you see them on your screen
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Megyn Kelly
right now, they look like a great
- [03:13]
Glenn Greenwald
pair of running mates. You know what I mean? Can one of you just be vice senator? Can we do that?
- [03:21]
Megyn Kelly
Who would actually watch that for entertainment? I mean, truly, who is sitting down at night after a hard day at the office saying, I want to spend time with Nicole Wallace and Rachel Maddow? Like, I. I would have to have a lobotomy in order for that to be my choice? Well, unfortunately, Rachel, there's no such thing as a vice senator, and only one could win. And last night, despite Jasmine Crockett whining about election fraud and pulling a last minute legal challenge out of her hat, Talarico prevailed. Crockett's role on the national stage is likely over, at least for now. And I have to say, she will be missed. Who else is gonna give us moments like these?
- [04:03]
Glenn Greenwald
We are gonna be in your face. We are gonna be on your asses. We are gonna make sure you understand what democracy looks like. Donald Trump is a piece of shit. Okay, we know that.
- [04:14]
Megyn Kelly
When I first became a public defender, I had no criminal defense experience. And I walked in and I told my boss, Charlie, I. He said, why? I said, because I'm black.
- [04:25]
Glenn Greenwald
So I had to go around the
- [04:27]
Megyn Kelly
country and educate people about what immigrants
- [04:30]
Glenn Greenwald
do for this country. The fact is, ain't none of y' all trying to go and farm right now. You not. We done picking cotton.
- [04:37]
Megyn Kelly
If someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde, bad built, butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities. Correct. I know that there was a time and a place, and if they could, they would throw me back in chains.
- [04:54]
Glenn Greenwald
If you could tell Donald Trump anything
- [04:56]
Megyn Kelly
tonight, what would you tell him? Stop being Putin's hoe Now. I am tired of the white tears.
- [05:02]
Glenn Greenwald
You could speak directly to Elon Musk. What would you say? Fuck off.
- [05:06]
Megyn Kelly
But as somebody who understands history, when I see ice, I see slave patrols. Violence doesn't come from Democrats. Just to be clear. I mean, obviously, anyone can be a criminal, but it is maga.
- [05:18]
Glenn Greenwald
They expect Democrats to kind of be the nice guys that we are.
- [05:22]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I am here to tell you,
- [05:23]
Glenn Greenwald
not only are we going to punch
- [05:24]
Megyn Kelly
back, but we about to beat you down. I've got to be honest, she's about five minutes away from Getting a show on the weekend at msnbc. That's clearly where life is going now. Her House seat was basically all but eliminated, but she left it anyway, so it's no longer hers. And she didn't make it in the Democrat primary. It's not like she lost in the general. She couldn't even get through the Democrat primary in her home state of Texas. So that's done. So, yeah, I'm thinking given the love that was espoused for her on the set by Rachel and Nicole, you know, maybe one of them will be willing to give up their spot for a black woman in America. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? White privilege. Ladies, move aside. Jasmine Crockett needs a job. Or maybe they'll just give her Tiffany Cross's old show, which I think ran on the weekend. Tiffany Cross then later got fired, let go for either misstating her finances on her accounting or just being a general racist. Same with Joy Reid. The latter was the explanation in her case, quite obviously. And so they're looking for somebody. And why not Jasmine Crockett? Let's see what happens there. Now, Talarico is a white Christian male. Nothing wrong with that. But Democrats it is. There is something wrong with that if you're a Democrat. However, they were willing to take the risk because they apparently thought that this was their best chance to win in red Texas. Get a white guy, somebody said, oh, and Christian. Okay, that'll do it. That's all you need, white Christian man. We're going to win. But I'm not sure how comments like this one are going to play in the Lone Star State. Take a listen to Talarico in January of this year.
- [07:15]
Glenn Greenwald
So what I've said is that our southern border should be like our front porch. There should be a giant welcome mat out front and a lock on the door. We can welcome immigrants who want to live the American dream. We can build a pathway to citizenship for those neighbors who have been here making. Making us richer and stronger. And we can keep out people who mean to do us harm.
- [07:36]
Megyn Kelly
He's in trouble. And his interpretation of Scripture. I mean, it might not connect with your average Texas voter. Check out this one from 2021.
- [07:47]
Glenn Greenwald
The first two lines of the Bible. The first two lines in Genesis use two different Hebrew words to describe God. One is the masculine Hebrew noun for divinity. The second is the feminine Hebrew noun for spirit. God is both masculine and feminine and everything in between. God is non binary.
- [08:19]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my Lord. Talarico will take on either incumbent Senator John Cornyn or Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who are headed for a runoff to be decided on May 26. Talarico is not the only baby faced white dude Democrat in the news today. However, President Joe Biden's Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is profiled now in the Atlantic with the title Pete Buttigieg in the Wilderness. Quote, he has a beard, a splitting mall, which I had to look up. It's like a. It's a tool that actually is used for splitting wood or attacking people. And a house in Michigan. Is that enough to convince America that he's a man of the people? Okay, we're gonna go with a big fat no there because all I see when I see people, Pete Buttigieg is I remember Tucker Carlson's joke about him breastfeeding his babies. It was a joke. He was making fun of just how much feminine energy Pete Buddha judge has. And that's not a reference to him being gay. It's a reference to him being femme and soft and just kind of a P word like I'm sorry, but that's kind of what he projects. Not tough guy, more like elite liberal, effete Democrat. Notwithstanding his beard now and his splitting mall, it's one of the many challenges he's gonna be up against. But these are the men that Democrats fall in love with. I mean, truly, this is their ideal when it comes to what a real man is. I mean, in Texas, you're gonna go with a guy who says the border should be like the. The front porch.
- [10:07]
Glenn Greenwald
What?
- [10:08]
Megyn Kelly
In Texas, you're gonna go with a guy who says non binary for God, that God is non binary. Like, I don't know how much it's gonna take for them to learn, but I'm certainly gonna enjoy watching as they do. Here to react to all this and more is the first guest in the history of the MK Show, Glenn Greenwald, our official godfather. He is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. That's right. And host of System Update, which can now be found@onsubstackreenwald.substack.com along with his written work. Think about this. In 2006, $20,000 equaled roughly 33 ounces of gold at spot price. Okay, 20,000 bucks. Got you 33 ounces. At today's prices, those 33 ounces would be worth about $165,000. That would have been a very good investment. And that's why so many smart Americans do diversify a portion of their savings into precious metals. They're thinking about what's going to happen in the next 20 years. And it's also why you should consider buying gold from Birch Gold Group. For thousands of years, gold has been a store of wealth and today it is a crucial part of any balanced strategy. Even better, Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered retirement account. In gold, all you have to do is text MK to the number 989898 and that will give you a free info kit on gold. There's no obligation. It's just useful information from which you can make a decision with an A plus rating. With a Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers. Let Birch Gold help you diversify with gold. Now that's peace of mind. Again, text MK to 989898 today. Glenn, great to see you. How are you?
- [11:57]
Glenn Greenwald
Hi Megan, good to see you as always.
- [11:59]
Megyn Kelly
See, you're living proof one can be a gay man and not project effete feminine energy. I don't get that off of you. And that's the problem with people to judge beard and splitting mall or not.
- [12:13]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, I, I mean this is basically like Pete Buttigieg is living in the dead in the, in the woods or whatever is basically Tim Waltz's camouflage hat. And I think, you know, all of this, there's a lot to say here, but this really everything you just went over, I think illustrates the core problem of the Democratic Party. Before Trump, the ideal Democratic politician was somebody who went to Harvard and then Yale Law School and then worked at Goldman Sachs, then moved to McKinsey like, like Buttigieg basically did most sort of amalgam of everything I just said. And they were just these very kind of a feat, you know, cosmopolitan people who oozed east coast values and just grew increasingly separate from the ordinary American. And then you have Trump comes along who, although he grew up very wealthy and became a billionaire and has lived a very kind of, you know, flamboyant life, he always had this kind of resentment against the elites, partly from growing up in Queens and being looked down on by Manhattan elites. Even once he was building the largest buildings. That always made him a man of the people. Like even in his tabloid days in New York, he really resonated with. I remember one time he was always, you know, in the news and I remember him saying, when I lived in New York at the time, it was like in the late 80s, early 90s, he said, yeah, I go to the construction sites and the guys who recognize me that I'm really happiest about are like the construction guys. That's what real fame is like. He always wanted that kind of a connection. That's what he most valued, maybe because that's what he found easiest. And Democrats are now in this situation where they're trying so hard to replicate it, but all they know how to do is, like, mimic it like a monkey, you know, like, they curse more. Like, Chuck Schumer goes on, he's like, the bastards, you know, which, like, they told him to do. Sometimes he, like, pretends to almost curse, and he's like, God. Excuse me. God darn it. And he pretends like he's so angry that he just can't control himself. So true. And this is what. This is why they think Jasmine Crockett is appealing, because they think she is what Trump is. The problem is among many, one of the main problems is, is that it's all vapid when these Democrats are doing it. Like, what is Pete Buttigieg stand for? Right. You. Trump came in with this whole, you know, very aggressive, assertive, huge personality, didn't abide by any of the comportmental limits or rules that politicians used to be forced to abide by. But he had a very clear set of political beliefs. Love him or hate him, immigration, trade, US Foreign policy, war, the unfairness of how America is treated by other countries. It was a very, you know, tough on crime. These were things that were, like, the bedrock of his worldview. Tell me what Jasmine Crockett or Pete Buttigieg believe in that's even remotely on the same level of conviction, aside from social issues, like cultural work themselves. Yeah. And this is. I'm sorry, I. So much. You talk about people, Crockett and James, Toddlerico and Democrats. Yes. So let me just add one more point, which is this is very much similar to aoc, by the way. Like, and I just want to say, like, one of the things that Marjorie Taylor Greene first said. I've always liked Marjorie Taylor Greene. I always thought Marjorie Taylor Greene and still do think she's very smart and insightful. And of course, Democrats look at her and think she's stupid because she has a Southern accent. I've always thought she was very smart. And one of the things Marjorie Taylor Greene used to always say about aoc, because she served in the House with her all those years, she didn't attack AOC the way most people on the right did. Oh, she's a communist, she's a socialist, she's a radical. That's like giving too much credit to aoc. That suggests that AOC has these, like, bedrock convictions that are immovable. She's a hardcore ideologue. She's not. She's a careerist. And so Marjorie Taylor Greene would always attack aoc, not by calling her a communist, but by saying she's a fraud and a tool of the establishment and a conniver and a climber, which is exactly what AOC is. She's become. She went from we're going to do a revolution against the Democratic Party to the most valuable weapon the Democratic Party has. And I think that's true of, like, Jasmine Crockett, this perception that she's on the left. It's really not true. She. She had a lot of APAC money. She came out of the crypto industry. Banks love her. Everything is a fraud with these people. It's like an inch deep. Same with people to judge. They are the byproduct of this very elite east coast kind of culture that they know now they have to distance themselves from, but it's in their blood and bones. You don't extract that, no matter how. What accent you use or what kind of ghetto talk you try and pretend you have, or you dress up in, like, plaid shirts and go out into the woods, it just oozes out of you. And people can smell that authenticity. That's one thing. You cannot fool Americans about.
- [16:47]
Megyn Kelly
That. Speaking of the fake accent and Jasmine Crockett, we've got to play this. That her. Her miraculous turnaround. Normally, if you grow up, you know, talking street, most people who would run for federal office might. Might aspire to, like, get rid of that accent and just speak with. With a. And she went the opposite way in order to up her cool factor and wound up making a fool out of herself. Jasmine Crockett, before and after Sat six, my mind, I'm thinking I just got to Austin, and I had to meet
- [17:18]
Glenn Greenwald
five people to get here.
- [17:20]
Megyn Kelly
I don't know about this. So y' all don't know what white privilege looks like, but I'm gonna show you a little bit of something. It's a huge responsibility. You know, the congressional seat is over four times as large as my House seat. I'm trying to get clarification.
- [17:33]
Glenn Greenwald
Look it. Calm down.
- [17:34]
Megyn Kelly
Calm down. No, no, no.
- [17:36]
Glenn Greenwald
Because this is what y' all do.
- [17:37]
Megyn Kelly
And I was just starting to get into the rhythm of doing constituent services. They send them to Texas, they send them to Florida. Every deplorable state that we can think about.
- [17:45]
Glenn Greenwald
They usually coming out of y' all's think tank.
- [17:48]
Megyn Kelly
There was someone that talked to me and Said in fact, a former ambassador in the Clinton administration.
- [17:55]
Glenn Greenwald
Don't tell me to calm down. Calm down. Because y' all talk noise.
- [17:58]
Megyn Kelly
Calm down.
- [17:58]
Glenn Greenwald
And then you practice out of control.
- [18:01]
Megyn Kelly
He said, jasmine, what you have to realize is that if you are really going to make change, it's not going to be in the Texas House. He said, you did a great job playing defense, but you have a chance to play. Often someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde, bad built, butch body. Okay, so she's a fraud. And it didn't take much for even the Texas Democrats, who are real Democrats, to see right through her, Glenn. And she got that seat running as the girl in the red velvet jacket there who was just sort of sweet sounding normal, had gone to law school, had been a public defender and was trying to represent her hometown community. And then she turned into this sort of wannabe rap star with the way she spoke and what she said and some sort of badass street fighter, and they bounced her ass right out of there.
- [19:02]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, that is one thing I actually disagreed with you about in your intro when you said you thought her, she was headed toward an Ms. Now show. I actually think she's headed to like some Housewives franchise on, on Bravo. Like, that's always what she's most reminded me of, I bet too, you know, is the way she just like, she, she is good at attracting attention by turning herself into kind of like a freak show. And so cable news loves her. Can't get enough of her, eats her up. She's interesting. Like, even in, in the, you know, you talk about her more than you would just like the average Democrat, you have to give her that. But it's. They're all negative traits, right? Like, if I go onto the street and start stabbing my eyes out with a fork, a lot of people are going to look at me more than like the people walking to their office. It doesn't mean it's a positive thing, but it is true. I'll attract more attention. She's figured out that game. And that's the thing, Megan, you know, like Donald Trump proved more than anybody and understood more than anybody. Media attention and fame and just having attention always being on you is an incredible political asset. She had that advantage a zillion times over. James Talariko, because she did get catapulted by the, by the CNN and msnbc. Now I'm now into this national figure and her name recognition was 40 points higher. But the more they looked at her and the more they heard From James Talarico. They're like, it isn't even just an electability issue, but where they thought James Tallarica was more electable. It's just that they, they turned away from her. And her campaign matched that diva behavior that you were describing. They were aggressive with reporters, kicking reporters out who wrote negatively about her, barely even campaigning, not doing any of the things that they barely had a campaign. It was just a disorganized mess that she thought she was going to win on the strength of her personality. The more Texans, soft Democrats.
- [20:46]
Megyn Kelly
We covered this last year that she's lazy, that she wasn't showing up to Capitol Hill for the hearing. She didn't want her to do her job. She wanted to work from. She wanted to be driven around in fancy cars and, you know, make sure somebody opens the door for her and be treated like, you know, the queen she thinks she is. Like, that doesn't get you anywhere. I'm sorry, but like, if you're not willing to work hard as, especially as a young person, my God, like, that's when we have energy, you know, like the, the, the 32 year old me had a lot more energy than I have today. I still have decent energy. But my point is simply if you're out of it when you're still in your 30s, forget about it. Plus, she's just a liar. Like, she, she wanted us to believe over and over that she had some, like, hardscrabble background and she really climbed her way up just like a aoc. And these were lies. Benny Johnson went to her hometown and actually figured out what her real background was in an amazing clip. Here is it. Here it is again. SOT7. We played it when he first hit with it about six months ago. Watch.
- [21:41]
Glenn Greenwald
It is rough, it is tough, it is hood, and it is foul. Just like Jasmine Crockett. That's the whole Persona. She's a fraud. This is where Jasmine says she's from, but this is where Jasmine's really from. Welcome to St. Louis, specifically the Republican suburbs of St. Louis with the mansions, country clubs and private schools. This is where Jasmine Crockett was raised. We're talking quiet suburbs, manicured lawns, college brochures in the mailbox. And this is where Jasmine Crockett went to school. It's called the mary Institute and St. Louis Country Day School. It's one of the most prestigious institutions in the entire country. Also one of the most expensive. Did your high school have its own private Wimbledon? Did your high school have its own aquatic center on site? Did Your high school have its own private dock and pond teaming with co colorful fish and wildlife? I think not.
- [22:46]
Megyn Kelly
Well done, Benny Johnson. Mine didn't. I went to public school in upstate New York. My parents paid taxes and they had to take me. How about yours, Glenn?
- [22:53]
Glenn Greenwald
I went to public school as well. We definitely did not have a pond with exotic fish, nor a full on Wimbledon or anything even remotely similar to that. You know, it's like, it's like the way Megan, that AOC tries to pretend that she's from the Bronx when in reality she's from Westchester. And this is. I wanted to make this point about, you know, Jasmine Crockett. It's like if somebody grows up in the inner city or, you know, in a predominantly black neighborhood where in the south or wherever, where people do speak that way and then they kind of learn when they enter professional contacts to speak a little bit differently. I think we all do that, right? We speak differently with our childhood friends or our family, and differently in a public context, that would be one thing. But what she's doing is almost like a minstrel show. That's not how she speaks. And as you said, when she ran for office, that wasn't how she spoke. She was, she. Yes, she was a public defender, but she was also a corporate lawyer. This is what I'm saying. Like, she is a very. I think a lot of people look at black Democrats, especially like black women. And if they're particularly boisterous, even more so like a Maxine Waters or whatever, and they say, oh, they must be like super left wing. The reality is often they're not even. Mostly they're like funded by aipac, they're funded by Wall Street. Maxine Waters was the chair of the Finance Services Financial Services Committee for years, and all the bankers loved her. These are, you know, people who go and make themselves as, as Marjorie Greene said about AOC establishment tools. And that's what makes it extra offensive that Jasmine Crockett pretends to be this. Because if it'll like, you know, Jesse Jackson would speak like that. But Jesse Jackson grew up like that. That was his politics.
- [24:26]
Megyn Kelly
That was authentic.
- [24:28]
Glenn Greenwald
Exactly.
- [24:28]
Megyn Kelly
And no one ever commented on it when, when it was obviously authentic. It's only when it's an obvious affect that you make it a thing that it'.
- [24:37]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, it becomes patronizing, you know, like, who is this for? I mean, it's probably mostly for white liberals, to be honest. I think that's really her big fan base.
- [24:45]
Megyn Kelly
That's why Rachel's so enamored by the way.
- [24:49]
Glenn Greenwald
Megan, just one thing, like, I was amazed. Like, I'm always amazed by this. I don't know if you are, but like when you said, like, go listen to these Ms. Now liberals saying how great both Jasmine Crockett and James Tallah Rico are. And the first voice is Nicole Wallace. I still like Nicole Wallace. 20 years ago was George Bush and Dick Cheney's communications director defending the Iraq war, defending every one of those conservative policies. And she supposedly just got alienated from Republicans because she didn't like Trump. But she had a complete transformation and turned into an overnight liberal for her. Her, her career talking about frauds. But in any event, yeah, I mean the idea that like these two are the future of the Democratic party and notice it's all surface stuff. It's all surface. It has nothing to do with the agenda.
- [25:35]
Megyn Kelly
Check in on another. James Talarico sat to see if he's the future of the Democrat Party and is going to fly as a statewide choice in Texas. Here he is in November 2022 at his home church.
- [25:47]
Glenn Greenwald
Before we go further, I want to acknowledge that our trans community needs abortion care too. Defending Texans is something we have to do every day at the state capitol, and you better believe I'll be giving sermons on that too. So when I use the word woman, it should not be understood as an exhaustive term, but rather as a, as a lens through which to understand, examine and interrogate patriarchy, similar to how we specify anti black racism. When talking about police violence. Sometimes it's helpful to locate a particular moment within a particular movement.
- [26:24]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, those clips are going to be on loop until we get to the general election, whether it's Talarico versus Paxton or Talarico versus Cornyn. And frankly, I think it's going to be Paxton. I just, I feel like Texans have had enough of the neocon Cornyn. Like they're ready for something new. Paxton's got his own baggage, but he seems pretty beloved. And he's Trumpian, which is, you know, all the rage. Very in for obvious reasons. So we'll see. But can you imagine this guy versus
- [26:50]
Glenn Greenwald
Ken Paxton in a race?
- [26:52]
Megyn Kelly
He's gonna get eaten alive, you know.
- [26:57]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, just for all. Like, it is interesting because Christianity can have kind of a left wing tinge. Like in Latin America, for example, it's yes, it can, but. But not by calling God non binary and saying the Bible says that trans people needs abortions. It's usually like a left wing populist economic populism, like, you know, Jesus taught us, or immigration or Immigration. Exactly. You can make Catholic Church. Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, the, the Pope has, you know, against the death penalty, you know, always against wars, condemning aggression. So you can make a. You can definitely construct a very Christian, like, genuinely Christian argument for, like, left wing or liberal economic populism and foreign policy. Non interventionism for sure. But that stuff, I don't know, maybe it was 2021. I don't know if he's from an extremely liberal district. It was like, right in the wake of the Black Lives Matter and all the, like, obligatory speech where they all started talking that way. It just aged so poorly. And I don't think that, by the way, that most voters vote on trans stuff, but if there's a perception that somebody so far afield, like, sounding is like, he's not just saying, like, hey, let's be kind and, you know, decent and tolerant to our trans neighbors. He's saying the Bible teaches that trans people have to get abortions too. Like, it just. That stuff sounds so extremist that even though that isn't their. Their main issue or close to it, it just, it makes them seem, again, like, very distant from their everyday lives and what they think about how they speak.
- [28:29]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Especially when he's saying God is non binary. Like, all of it is going to make wonderful campaign ads. I know the Democrats today, some of them are heaving a sigh of relief that he prevailed over Crockett, who many did not believe had a chance at statewide office in. In Texas. And they think this guy is sort of the kinder, gentler, you know, more sellable candidate. Maybe he is versus Crockett, but I'm not entirely sure of that, to be honest, because he's pretty radical in his policies as we've been playing in the first 26 minutes here. And it's just gonna get shoved down his throat no matter who the Republican candidate is. It's just another example, as far as I'm concerned, of Democrats not understanding the constituency. Before we leave Jasmine Crockett, because we may be leaving her forever depending on, you know, what happens.
- [29:18]
Glenn Greenwald
Unless we cover. Unless we do a podcast together about Bravo shows, in which case we might have the opportunity to cover her.
- [29:24]
Megyn Kelly
Well, when you're ever, you're on. We do that towards the end. And today we do have more Michelle Obama for you, Glenn Greenwald. But let's not leave before this. Jasmine. Before showing Benny's comparison of Jasmine Crockett's district in South Dallas with her hometown,
- [29:41]
Glenn Greenwald
here's what your average street looks like in South Dallas, where Jasmine Crockett represents. Best part about Jasmine Crockett's district is free public bathrooms. And here's what your average street looks like in St. Louis, in the suburbs, where Jasmine Crockett's from. Here's an elementary school in the heart of Jasmine Crockett's district. Let's go ahead and check on the environment in which these kids are learning. You have burned down buildings in every direction. Nothing's open. FDJT has been tagged on this building. Here's the walkway to school in Crockett's district. This is what the children, dirt litter, have to walk through every single day. I don't know how many booze bottles there are, how many beer cans and how much junk. And here's what a school looks like in St. Louis. And here's what stores and shopping centers look like in South Dallas. And here's what stores and shopping centers look like in St. Louis. Get the point?
- [30:44]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. He. He's did such a great job in that whole thing that she parachuted in, she said, oh, I'm one of you. She got elected. She started talking street like she was from the Bronx or whatever the equivalent is in Texas, and it was all lies. I. I think even though you're right, she attracts attention for doing some of this stuff. There's a shelf life for people like this, you know, because to your point as well, it's one thing if it's authentic and you're Trump and you have the Brooklyn accent. Cause it's, you know, you came by honestly, you were born in Queens, the Queens accent. I guess there is a slight difference. My dad's from Brooklyn, or was. In any event, it's one thing if it's authentic, and it's another if it's an affectation. And it really doesn't take much to see the difference.
- [31:29]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, I think basically the two things that most. That are most destructive for a political candidate are, number one, feeling seeming like they're tied to the establishment. I do think that was Kamala Harris's biggest problem. I think I've said before on your show, my impression of her is always that she had just walked out of, like, a board of directors meeting of Aetna where they were doing, like, actuary tables, and she was, like, the general counsel.
- [31:50]
Megyn Kelly
I love it every time. Yeah.
- [31:52]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, that is what. She just gives me so much. And I think that's what people got from her. Just. And she tried a little bit of that, like, code switching in the way she spoke to. And it was Even less convincing. Oh yeah, but any kind of establishment. Exactly, exactly. And she used to have an Indian accent when she first ran in California as well. That completely disappeared. But yeah, so that's one thing is, and that's what Pete, that's his problem. You know, he can wear as many like camouflage hats as he wants. He's never gonna escape what he really is. And then, and as you said at the beginning, it's very effete. It's not because he's gay or anything else. He's just like very, he wanted to go and just like work with numbers in an office and just like be a very kind of rule abiding, you know, conform. This is a very weak behavior. And then the other problem is when people think that you're fake, you know, when people think that you are inauthentic, when you're, when you're trying to calm them or snow them. And good politicians can con people. Like Bill Clinton was very good at that. Obama was good at that. Trump has that too. But at the core, you need to be authentic because as I said before, especially more so now, where there's so much exposure, they're, you know, they don't just go on like Sunday shows or a presidential debate twice a year. There's constant exposure. If you're fake, people are going to sniff it out.
- [33:03]
Megyn Kelly
Well, it's funny how all these Democrats and trying to figure out how to make themselves have mass appeal are growing facial hair. From Ezra Klein to Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut to now Pete Buttigieg. Like I'm going to start looking like Paul Bunyan and that will make me sellable to the larger electorate. So the Atlantic bought it hook, line and sinker and sitting with Buttigieg. And they write that the title of the piece, as I mentioned, is Pete Buttigieg in the Wilderness. I quoted the line, he has a beard, a splitting mall and a house in Michigan. Is that enough to convince America that he's a man of the people? This is the big setup piece for his presidential campaign. This is like, this is how he's kicking it off. Make no mistake about it, 2028 is right around the corner. We're already at 26. It's on. And this is Pete Buttigieg getting it off with the Atlantic. Getting it off to a start. Lead line of the article. In May 2001 at Harvard's Institute of Politics, a 19 year old freshman named Peter Buttigieg asked David Gergen, a Harvard professor and horse whisperer to five presidents, a question that he might have reserved for himself a couple of decades later, Peter, who had not yet transformed into Pete, let alone Mayor Pete, said he loved the West Wing, but could feel the idealism reflected in the show slipping away from politics. And in real life, Quote, the presidency has now devolved into what's called the NBA White House or the corporate model. He said with the plaintive tone of a child asking about the spirit of Christmas. Quote, is that magic really gone forever? Worse than being underused. They go on to talk about him is is being used in a campaign to destined for failure. And they talk about Kamala Harris and how she considered Pete Buddha judge, but then overruled him and talked about how he felt about this. They say, okay, we were already asking a lot of America, she wrote in her memoir, and a lack of grace. But it just has never thanked her for that slight. Being passed over has left him the most prominent Biden stalwart, to remain viable as a candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2028. Okay, so they're setting it all up. Like, he see how she left him the most prominent Biden stalwart. So he's still got the establishment Dems. He's viable as a candidate for the Democratic nomination. And here he was wistfully talking about the West Wing. Oh, and he went to Harvard. Did we mention he was at Harvard's Institute of Politics and idealistic. And he has a beard and a splitting wall, so you see it all. It's not even subtle, Glenn.
- [35:39]
Glenn Greenwald
No, this is exactly what I mean, Megan. So I don't know what you were like at 19. I think I have some ideas. I know what I was like at 19.
- [35:46]
Megyn Kelly
I was very, very bad. Blonde, bleached hair. Speaking of bleached blonde hair out of a box because I was poor. And that's how you had to do it, right?
- [35:56]
Glenn Greenwald
And like, I don't know, I just. I wasn't at Harvard, like, tugging on the coattails of David Gergen, like, trying to form cement. I don't know. For people who don't know, David Gergen is like the ultimate Washington insider. Was like the whisper to multiple presidents in both parties, like the supreme Washington establishment, centrist or moderate or whatever. Then he went. He was on CNN like one of the wise men of Washington. And that is who people is. It was who he was since he was very young. Like, this is the. This is the. The core of somebody that cannot change. You can change how they dress. You can change whether they have facial hair. You can change what kind of hat they wear. But, like, who you are is who you are, and you can evolve and grow and all of that, but you cannot escape that core personality that is clearly still Pete Buttigieg. And that is who he is. Harvard and David Gergen and McKinsey. And also, like this electoral success, you know. You know how many votes he got when he won to be mayor of South Bend? The maximum, like, in both times is, like, 8,000 people. 8,000 votes.
- [36:56]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, wow.
- [36:57]
Glenn Greenwald
And, wow. He. The whole thing is, like, built on a fake artifice, like a total house of cards.
- [37:04]
Megyn Kelly
Well, here. So the Atlantic loves it. I mean, like I said, line and sinker. He sounds like the younger member of the old Democratic Party, the one that flourished before Trump. Brainy, credentialed, and elite. Liberal, but not progressive and personable. But this might be key. Frightfully boring. Buttigieg's technocracy made flesh. Who could be safer than a politician who has had his card punched at all the great meritocratic institutions and who has followed the modern cursus honorum, some sort of Latin honorum, from local office to national? And who could be less Trumpian? He's unashamed of technical competence, even when it makes him sound dweebish. Without embarrassment, he bragged to me during his days as a management consultant, he had worked with data sets, quote, too big for Excel to handle.
- [37:59]
Glenn Greenwald
Ha, ha ha.
- [38:00]
Megyn Kelly
And then they go on to say the following. Hold on. Buckle up. Buttigieg's critics seem to fault him for the vaguest reasons, many of which come down to, he's too perfect. Glenn, I'm quoting for the piece. He's too perfect. Perfect. That's the problem with Pete Buttigieg. Now he gets to it. He's not authentic. He's not a man of the people. It's an odd line of attack. Is it possible to be too perfect? Is perfection a flaw? This is unbelievable. I'm sure JD Vance is getting exactly this treatment. In the Atlantic. Social psychology has documented something known as the pratfall effect, the distrust of people deemed too perfect. It turns out that people like smart, charismatic types, but they really like smart, charismatic types who screw up now and then and do not just ace every test and land every joke. This. It's the interview question. What. What are some of your flaws?
- [39:00]
Glenn Greenwald
Exactly.
- [39:00]
Megyn Kelly
I work too hard. I'm a perfectionist. And this writer, hook, line, and sinker, as I said, Graham Wood, who teaches at Yale and is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, was like, I'm in love.
- [39:16]
Glenn Greenwald
No. But you know what's so funny? Megan is when I was just describing why people Judge is such a pathetically weak candidate, why he'll never have this, like, compelling appeal. I actually sounded almost identical to the. To the Atlantic article, at least until I got to the part about how he's too perfect, that he is, like, from a different political era, like, from the Obama era, where people wanted technocrats and, like, very kind of cold, you know, people who came out of establishment institutions. The authority and credibility of all those institutions are in collapse. And the more you have to do with them, the more you smell like them, the more you seem like you're a byproduct of them, the weaker you are. So, yeah, maybe he would have been a good, like, candidate in, like, the Democratic Party of Barack Obama in 2012 or 2008. Trump destroyed all of that, that, that political era, that whole political appeal. And you see, like, smarter politicians like Gavin Newsom who realize that and are also trying to show that they're just kind of like regular guys who speak in regular speak. Pete Buttigieg doesn't have it in him and that the Atlantic is like, ground zero for political study of political establishment. And so, of course, they still think those are appealing traits when in reality they're fatal.
- [40:30]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. So, and by the way, Newsom was another person lying about his origin story and one other excerpt from this piece. He never spoke more slowly or sounded more rehearsed than when I asked him about the issue he will be most harshly critiqued on if he runs his silence during Biden's cognitive decline. Quote, we all saw what we saw, that he was old. He said, I never saw a decision that was different or worse because he was old. End quote. And as long as the decision making was sound, Buddha Judge had no duty to pull a senility alarm. Well, this will be a problem for Pete Buttigieg, among other Democrats running. Why didn't they say anything about Biden's cognitive decline? He was part of the administration, said nothing. Gavin Newsom wasn't part of the administration, but he's also going to get questioned about it because he was such a huge. Gavin Newsom. Sorry. Well, yeah, Gavin Newsom backer, but Joe Biden backer. The Emerson Poll that was most recent on Democratic Presidential possibilities hit February 26th says the following. Newsom leads the pack at 20%. Buttigieg is second at 16. Harris is third at 13. AOC is fourth at nine. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro has 7%. Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear at 5%. 24% are undecided. So it. It Right. Now, if you were to go to. By today, it's Newsom versus Buttigieg for this contest. And they are very different. I mean, I. I'm not gonna lie. Every woman I talk to, when you sit, you know, I'm constantly like, Gavin Newsom. And every woman, even the Republican ones, are like, he is hot. It. It doesn't hurt in politics to be very good looking. People to judge is not. You don't look at him and think hot. But he's trying to get like, cooler with the beard and the plaid. Right. The equivalent of the camo hat. We'll see whether that works on anybody. I mean, no. No woman is fantasizing. Look at Pete Buttigieg, because we know he's gay. So, like, I guess you can't.
- [42:43]
Glenn Greenwald
But that's not the only reason. That's not the only reason. Even if he were totally straight, you still wouldn't be.
- [42:49]
Megyn Kelly
No. My God, who would want that on top of them? I mean, gay or straight or whatever. Male, male or female, it's a no. Okay. Speaking of Gavin Newsom, he sat down with Mark Halperin, and you know, he is now in that famous clip where he's talking to the mixed audience, but a lot of black people in it saying, I'm like you. I can't read. I got a 960 on the SAT. I mean, just absolutely devastating. What he's saying is, I'm like, you, dumb. That's how I relate to you black people. I too am dumb. Can't read. Ridiculous. But okay, so he sat down with Mark Halpern, who asked him, you know, are you actually dyslexic? Can you read? And here's how that went. Sock 12.
- [43:31]
Glenn Greenwald
Can you read? Can you read a book? I can read. I just have to underline it. I can't read. Spatially. I can't. That's why I can't read a speech, Mark, because spatially I'll lose the line. So I'll literally. And I mean, I wish I had a book here. Yeah. If you ever lend me a book. That's why I don't go to the library, because I can never return the book. I have to underline. And then what I'll do is I'll take what's underlined and then I'll put it out. And this is literally an actual example. I'll just put in piece of paper everything I underlined. And then I'll do that for hours and hours and hours. And then eventually I'll put it on a little Yellow card, which will have just quick notes and then it's in my head. But that's the process. Everything online I have to print out. So I take what's online, print out your blog or something, and then underline it and then put it in here. So it's a. It's a process.
- [44:17]
Megyn Kelly
So you can't.
- [44:18]
Glenn Greenwald
You can't read on a phone. You can't read on a phone or an iPad. I can. I just get. I start daydreaming. I start drifting off. And so it's. So if you're 10 is the key.
- [44:27]
Megyn Kelly
I, I might also be dyslexic. Look at me. I have to underline all my things, too. Like, I don't know. I actually don't doubt him that he's got some sort of a learning disability, because Yashar Ali, who worked in his office, has said online, this has long been known about him, it's fine. Okay, but what you actually said to the audience was, I'm like you, I can't read. I got a 960 on the SAT. So this dyslexic or not, he's not saved by this. This is all a crutch to get out of what was an offensive comment in the way it was delivered to this particular audience, in my view. Your thoughts?
- [45:06]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, also, he's been in public life for 20 years. And why, why now? Why was this suddenly thrust forward as something we have to hear about Gavin Newsom from Gavin Newsom, it just seems very exploitative. And then when you listen to him describe what the issue is to Mark Halperin, I kind of believe it too, mostly because who cares? Like, yeah, I'm sure it's not. It's just something, I don't know, like his, his attention wanders. Does your attention wander sometimes if you're reading a book? Mine does.
- [45:39]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Yeah, Right, right, right.
- [45:41]
Glenn Greenwald
You know, I think it's. It's very much like, oh, you know what, you know what will make me seem relatable is if I have, if I talk about my disability and, you
- [45:49]
Megyn Kelly
know, he's posting pictures, he's digging himself out of the hole that he created.
- [45:54]
Glenn Greenwald
Right, but why did he create that
- [45:56]
Megyn Kelly
hole, that largely black audience.
- [45:57]
Glenn Greenwald
Right, but why did he create that hole? Because he was trying to be relatable. Like, yes, I know. I. When I was, you know, 18 or 20, I was best friends with this billionaire family that financed my businesses and financed my political career. But don't worry, I'm like you because I can't read and Got poor scores on my sat. I mean, the way it was said was very offensive, but also the impulse was. And again, it's like. It's like monkey behavior. They think they're imitating Trump, although Trump would never talk about his disabilities. But it's like a way of trying to be open and vulnerable. Kind of like, I don't know, the Oprah era or something. It just seems very off to me. You know what? He's been in public life for more than two decades, and now suddenly we have to hear about his dyslexia and, like, who cares?
- [46:41]
Megyn Kelly
And it's part of the same thing that. You're right. That has him out there. Like, I, you know, single mom, Mac and cheese. Meanwhile, his dad was judge, and he was getting boatloads of dough from the Getty family. Featured in a magazine article with the Getty Kids. Gavin, front and center with the caption, children of the rich. Like, okay, again, back to the Benny Johnson thing. Did you get featured in a magazine, Glenn, growing up as child of the rich? Me neither.
- [47:14]
Glenn Greenwald
Megan, did you have best friends who are billionaires? The Gettys? Were you, like, best friends with, like, the Morgan people?
- [47:20]
Megyn Kelly
Even know any doctors or lawyers? Yeah, we never met a judge. Like, that was a huge thing. Like, to find that out. I mean, when I went to law school at Albany. Law school, a fine, pedestrian law school. It was great if you want to go to practice law in New York. But beyond that's not well known. I thought I had finally made it, Glenn. I was like, now people are going to have to take me seriously because I. I'm gonna be a lawyer. I was so impressed with, like, the possibility of getting a law degree. We didn't know anybody who had an advanced degree like that. Like, do I run around reminding my audience of my humble beginnings every day? No, I don't. This is, like, a uniquely weird politician thing. He'd be better off just pulling a Trump. Like, Yeah. I was so lucky the Gettys took such good care of me, you know? Like, and I was born to, like, a really smart dad who was a judge and a mom who was loving and worked hard. Just fucking own your actual history. That's what authentic looks and sounds like.
- [48:24]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, Yeah. I remember when they would bring up Trump's bankruptcies, and he'd be like, yeah, bankruptcy is a great tool in. In the law. Maybe it shouldn't be there. Maybe it should be, but it's there. And I. I'm a businessman. I'm going to use all the tools and Exactly. You know, when he was. When he was asked about things like his father's wealth and the opportunities, you know, he didn't say no. I grew up very, you know, exactly what you said. Like, and it. And it. And it does give the impression that Trump always is willing to tell the truth. Like, he doesn't have this shield. Now, Trump lies a lot, like every president, every political leader. I don't mean that. I mean that when he talks about himself and just kind of, like, being conversant, he, like, almost lacks that filter that politicians have where you calculate what you're going to say to, like, calibrate it for the best effect on the audience. Many, many times that Trump speaks, he just simply lacks it or he doesn't care enough. And that is political.
- [49:15]
Megyn Kelly
Strange. The moment with Hillary Clinton right at the one debate, like, you didn't pay your taxes. You paid zero taxes. And he was like, that makes me smart.
- [49:22]
Glenn Greenwald
Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah.
- [49:26]
Megyn Kelly
Here's. Here's another fact for you people to judge. Lives in Traverse City, which has become the Hamptons of Michigan. I mean, like, it is a joke that he lives in the wilderness of Michigan, according to our Michigan sources. So that, too, is not true. And as for Gavin Newsom, Gordon and Ann Getty paid about $233,000 toward his first wedding reception. His 30th birthday party, given by the Gettys, was Great Gatsby themed, down to the flappers and Charlestons. And per the San Francisco Chronicle In 2003, in 10 of Gavin Newsom's first 11 businesses, the primary money came from, you guessed it, the Getty family. Once again, Glenn, did you have some billionaire family like the Astors or the Rockefellers or the Vanderbilts or the Gettys paying for anything in your life? No. No one did. Other than this guy who's trying to convince us he's a man of the people.
- [50:29]
Glenn Greenwald
You know, when you. When you. That is amazing. Like, he was basically, like, an honorary Getty. I don't. Like, they really took a gigantic interest in, like, every aspect of his funding his wedding and throwing birthday parties for him and investing in 10 of his. I mean, that connection. He didn't just know the Gettys. It was an extremely deep and intricate relationship. Who knows why? Maybe they saw that he was a
- [50:50]
Megyn Kelly
striver who takes $233,000 from someone who's not their family for their wedding 30 years ago.
- [50:58]
Glenn Greenwald
So that was like, you know, seven or almost a million dollars now, or 800,000 or whatever.
- [51:03]
Megyn Kelly
That's exactly right. And that was to our pal, Kimberly Guilfoyle. All right, quick break. We're right back with Glenn. Don't go away feeling sluggish, bloated, not quite like yourself. Life constantly bombards us with silent threats. Processed foods, artificial light, nonstop stress. All of which can disrupt gut health, drain energy and weaken immune health. When that happens, it's not that your body is broken, it's that it might be missing the right inputs. That's why I want to tell you about Amra Colostrum. It's packed with more than 400 bioactive nutrients that they say can work at a foundational level to fortify gut health, support immune health, fuel recovery, and promote whole body vitality. Strong gut integrity can support metabolism, skin and hair health, and even performance and recovery, which is why Colostrum has long been valued by some elite athletes as well. If you are looking to take back control of your health from the inside out, consider Amra. And they have a special deal for you. Go to armra.com megan a r m r-a.com megan or enter megan to get 30 off your first subscription order. That's a r m r a.com megan so good. So good. So good. New markdowns, up to 70 off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And that means so many new reasons to rack because I always find something amazing, amazing.
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Glenn Greenwald
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Megyn Kelly
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Glenn Greenwald
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Megyn Kelly
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Glenn Greenwald
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Megyn Kelly
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Glenn Greenwald
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- [53:06]
Megyn Kelly
Brought to you by Argenics. Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. Glenn Greenwald is back with me. He is back on Substack as well. Go to greenwald.substack.com to find all of his work. You will be smarter for having done it. All right, before we move on to Iran and there's plenty to discuss. There was a press right of the Pentagon this morning. I have got to run this Michelle Obama sound bite by you, Glenn. It's Michelle Obama day for you. She sat down with Conan o' Brien, and you're going to be shocked, shocked to learn she feels that there's a double standard when it comes to first families depending on skin color. Watch.
- [53:50]
Glenn Greenwald
I could tell when you and I took a trip once to visit a big, giant military base in the Middle east, you and your team were being so careful that everything is done by the book. You know, there's no perks. There's no. And I was really impressed with that. And it occurred to me then, oh, I see. Everyone feels we need to be so, so, so far beyond.
- [54:18]
Megyn Kelly
It wasn't even a feeling. It was the truth.
- [54:20]
Glenn Greenwald
It's the truth.
- [54:21]
Megyn Kelly
You know, I mean, there's absolutely no way that the behavior in this current administration would have been accepted by the first black family in the White House. You don't get here without being damn near perfect. We don't get to fail.
- [54:37]
Glenn Greenwald
Right.
- [54:37]
Megyn Kelly
2, 3, 5, 7 times. We don't get to file bankruptcy over and over again and still be considered a successful business person. Right. You know?
- [54:47]
Glenn Greenwald
Right.
- [54:47]
Megyn Kelly
We, we don't, we don't get to not be at the top of the class. You know, every, every I has to be dotted, every T has to be crossed. Okay? So she behaved on her best at a military base because she's black. And she, she couldn't fall below the standard. That's what, that's why she had to behave so well while visiting troops serving in the military on their territory. It's because she's black. That's why she had to act so well, Glenn.
- [55:19]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, that was a hard clip to get through, Megan. So, you know, anything for you, I will do it. But that was not easy because it wasn't just her. Like, the whole thing was set up by Conan being the good white progressive ally, basically saying he was, it was his thesis. He was like, so first of all, it was very funny because he was basically saying what the Atlantic said about people judge. Like, you were, you were like, perfect to a fault. You know, everything about it. Totally so perfect. And he's like. And then I realized, like, that's because you're black. And she's like, absolutely. And this, you know, this grievance is from her is, I don't understand. Why is there nobody near her who says, you know, Michelle, you're one of the richest and most famous women in the World. You spend your time traveling around the world, unlike Richard Branson's yacht and you know, with Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos in the most luxurious places. You have a gigantic estate in Martha's Vineyard in a bigger mansion or a big, huge mansion, multimillion dollar mansion in Washington. You were the first lady, your husband was the President, United States. Every door is open for you. Maybe like just tuned it, turn tuned down a little bit on the constant grievance, because you're not really like a major figure of sympathy. But she can't, she can't. She, she, she. Americans twice voted for them. You know, they, they went in, they were in the White House for eight years. Before that, he was elected senator out of nowhere by the state of Illinois. And you would think that, you know, she spent the first half of her life like under Jim Crow or in chains or something, the way she speaks. And it's, it's really resentment producing.
- [56:52]
Megyn Kelly
She, she's like, oh, you know, we, we have to get perfect grades in order to be acceptable. It's the truth is exactly the opposite. And we all know that affirmative action is there to help black Americans like Michelle Obama, who didn't get perfect grades wind up at Princeton. That's what happened in her case, and she knows it. She did not have to get perfect grades. In fact, this system bent over backward to help her get into our most elite, despite the fact that she failed to do that. Trump and his bankruptcies happened because he spent his life for decades as a businessman taking massive risks in real estate, one of the most volatile industries we have. And he played the system just like all people in that business. Do something she would know nothing about because she'd done nothing. Prior to becoming first lady, she spent a few years at a white shoe law firm in Chicago. Okay, sorry, look, I've done that. I've, I've done that literally the exact same thing. It's fine. It's a respectable way to spend your living your life. But you, you're not a woman of the world coming out of that. You haven't taken big risks like President Trump did when he was a private citizen. So she would know nothing about filing for bankruptcy as a corporate tool to take care of debt and so on. She has no idea what she's talking about. Everything for her reduces to a racial grievance.
- [58:20]
Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's so tiresome. And you know, I heard Obama himself talking the other day about his library and he was talking about how there's going to be A whole wing of the library for what people really want to see, which were Michelle's dresses. She spent, you know, eight years. It wasn't like she innovated the position of first lady and took on, you know, she did some stuff on like children eating well, which is fine. It's a good cause, like not to be obese and to exercise. But it wasn't like she was some driving force or intellectual pioneer in that position. She really was most known for her, her love of fashion, you know, and her relationship with the world of fashion. That's really what she most became known for. And also the Obama presidency was far, far, far from perfect. They bailed out the banks, they. They let huge, millions and millions of people go underwater, get expelled from their, evicted from their home because of their inability to pay mortgage. They had a gigantic fund, all those drone attacks and wars overseas. They destroyed Libya and he got reelected. So where is this, this framework that if you're black, you have to be perfect in order to succeed? When her own husband is a living, breathing testament of the falsity of that.
- [59:25]
Megyn Kelly
The other piece of it is Glenn, like you would think as first lady, all these years later, if somebody says to you, you know, I remember I was at a military base with you. And so both of these two, the what Conan o', Brien, I was waiting for him to say was, maybe you are so great with the troops. The way you guys interacted, it seems so authentic to me. Like how, how much you loved them. Or could you believe how badass those guys were? You know, they were huge and they were badass mfers. Or for her even not having it teed up that way to go there. Like, that's the normal instinct by most patriots to make it about the guys and the gals who you saw at the military base. But both of them were determined to make it about her. And not just her, but about racial grievance again with some slips in, some digs at Trump. It's just she's so small minded. This is the only lens through which she sees her experience as First Lady. There's no gratitude, not even for the troops. Not a word about how tough they were or amazing they were or how selfless they were in their sacrifice. Just her sacrifice in having to be first lady for eight years and deal with the abject racism of the country. I, I've had it with this bitch. I'm sorry, but like, I am done listening to her fucking with the help of, as you point out, little white liberals who are begging for her to pat them on the head.
- [60:49]
Glenn Greenwald
It's. I don't know about you, Megan, but I kind of do, actually. And I can say for myself, like, whatever I have in this world, I'm constantly grateful for it. Like, I'm aware of how blessed I am. Like, I. I know that I have things that other people don't. And the idea that I would go around, like, not just complaining to myself or in my private realm, but, like, demanding that the public listen to me as I complain about the unfairness of my life. You know, it's like, if you're poor, if you are downtrodden, you've had a lot of tragedy in your life. I get it. Like, I understand why people like that are angry. You can't have a more blessed life than the one that she's had. And yet she, as you say, she's. She's. There's no gratitude, there's no humility. Yet she can't even pretend to, like, remember that visit to the base, being about her being impressed with overseas troops and the sacrifices they make and the courage they make was like Politics 101. No, it's about how unfair it was that she had to be so regimented because she was black. That is. I mean, malignant narcissism doesn't even capture that at all. It's something way beyond truly, truly.
- [61:55]
Megyn Kelly
Like, I visited military bases. You go, you do walk away thinking, omg, I don't know how they do it. I mean, that's. That's been my number one impression. Just, oh, my God, they're so strong. They're so dedicated. The stories they tell you. If you're inquisitive, Michelle, if you actually bother to speak with the troops about their experiences, you might learn about what they've had to deal with. About, like, just. I remember one guy talking to me about the pterodactyl style size mosquitoes that they had to deal with when they were out on their morning 5k in some of the deployments. Like, just things you wouldn't think of. You know, you think of the enemy, you think of gunfire, you don't think of things like that, like pterodactyl sized mosquitoes. In any event, she's always about herself. She reduces everything to race. I'm sick of her shtick. That was her podcast today. I mean, this is like, to this day, it's 2026 and she's still bitching about her time as first lady. Get over it, for the love of God. Okay, let's keep going. You mentioned Barack Obama droning people. And that brings us to warfare and Iran. We had a briefing from press from Pentagon chief Pete Hegset, Secretary of War, along with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Dan Raisin Cain this morning. And here was a bit of how that sounded. 13.
- [63:15]
Glenn Greenwald
Thus far, Operation EPIC Fury has delivered twice the air power of shock and awe of Iraq in 2003, minus Paul Bremer and the nation building. We are just getting started. We are accelerating, not decelerating. The Iranian air force is no more. Built for 1996, destroyed in 2026. The Iranian Navy rests at the bottom of the Persian Gulf. Combat ineffective, decimated, destroyed. The combination of US and Israeli intelligence and combat power will control Iran. We've taken control of Iran's airspace and waterways without boots on the ground. We control their fate
- [64:02]
Megyn Kelly
though the president says we are likely to be there for another four to five weeks. And this is what Bibi Netanyahu said on Hannity the other night, sat 26.
- [64:13]
Glenn Greenwald
I said it could be quick and decisive. It may take some time, but it's not going to take years. It's not an endless war. In fact, it's an effort right now to achieve the peace that we all
- [64:25]
Megyn Kelly
yearn and pray for. It may take some time. As far as he went, the president saying four to five weeks, we really don't know it. It's not going to be quick. And it doesn't seem like they're leaning toward taking the out that a lot of MAGA has been begging them to take. Glenn, which is just say it's a success right now. You took out the ayatollah, you took out 39 or 40 other TOP members of the regime. You've put the Navy at the bottom of the ocean. You've gotten control of the airspace, you've done a lot of damage to their top missile sites and so on. Can we just declare it a win right now and leave and do the thing that should have been done in Iraq after the shock and awe? He made a reference to the shock and awe. Just, just do that. Just say it's a win right now and leave. But we're not prepared to do that. It's going to get worse. And we're still told that the full unleashing is yet to come. So your thoughts on where we are now on day five? Five, yeah.
- [65:20]
Glenn Greenwald
Okay. First of all, this is exactly what we heard, not just before the Iraq war, but into the Iraq war. It's only a matter of weeks, maybe a couple months at the most. This is not going to be a prolonged war. We have total dominance over the Iraqi military. They're dispersed, they're destroyed. Their military is destroyed. As you know, of course, President Bush made that. George W. Bush made that notorious trip with the gigantic Mission Accomplished banner behind him, which, I mean, I understand from the military perspective, they did what they were at first told to do, but as we know, that accomplished nothing. We did end up being sucked in to Iraq. On top of that, even Tony Blair, one of the primary decision makers that led to the Iraq war, that advocated it was, admits in retrospect that the power vacuum that we created is what gave rise to isis, that extremism and all kinds of terrorism can emerge when you take out a government and crush the civil society. So that's one thing. We've heard this whole thing before. Yes, they can just say, okay, we're done. But then the question is, what did that accomplish? Remember, the whole thing was justified at first on the grounds that the Iranian government is, you know, slaughtering all of its citizens, killed, however many protesters. Number constantly changes. But they killed a lot of. And we were so concerned about that. We wanted to change the government, liberate the Iranian people. If we're going to do that, it's obviously going to take months and years of nation building, which is what Pete has. Pete Hegg says the scorning. But if we don't do that, what. What have we achieved? We're going to smash this country, leave it in a kind of Syria or Libya like state where we bombed all their police stations. There's no more police. There's going to be anarchy, there's going to be Balkanization, there's going to be a power vacuum. Who knows who will fill it for what, for how does that make the United States safer? It doesn't. Just like the Iraq war didn't.
- [67:04]
Megyn Kelly
President Trump doesn't seem to have a clear plan in mind when it comes to the ayatollah succession plan, like who's likely to be elevated? He said to the media the other day, you know, we had a couple of people in mind, but now they're all dead. It looks like they may have elected Khomeini's son to be the next supreme leader. Not totally clear to me whether that's a done deal or whether it's just heading in that direction right now. But by some accounts, he's even more hardline than the old man was. And there's a question now about are we already headed to a place where we, the new boss is worse than the old Boss. And was this thought through?
- [67:45]
Glenn Greenwald
First of all, this does seem very similar in a way, and I think a lot of people on MAGA are hoping it ends up similar to what happened in Venezuela. Venezuela, which is where we heard for weeks and months about Maduro and all the evils of the Maduro government. It was a communist regime that destroyed liberty and destroyed the country, and that was the original impetus for the war in a lot of people's minds. And then Trump goes in, takes out Maduro, doesn't do much else, blew up some boats and left the entire rest of the government in place, which I'm glad about. I'm glad we didn't destroy the Venezuelan government in the nation belt in Venezuela. But the question then is like, what did that achieve? We were able to run Venezuela, which we're basically doing, but so what is it in Iran? Are we going to just go in and say, okay, we killed the ayatollah, we killed some senior leadership, and now the country, we're just going to leave it as is, govern the way it was before? He was asked specifically about the Shah of Iran, which is what all these Iranian exiles want, is the Shah of Iran son to go be reinstalled. And when they asked Trump about it, he sounded exactly like. When he sounded. When they asked if Maria Machado was going to go and rule Venezuela, he was like, yeah, he's a nice guy, but I prefer somebody who's actually in the country, who's popular in the country. They. I don't think Trump wants a radical change in the government. The problem, Megan, is that once you start a war like this, you can't control what the other side does. If they do things that require escalation, require retaliation, other countries get involved. That's a very volatile region. And that's what scares me the most, is not that Trump wants endless war. He doesn't want to be there for years. But sometimes when you start a war like this, you have no choice. Bush didn't intend to be in Iraq for years either, or in Afghanistan for 20 years. And yet we were.
- [69:20]
Megyn Kelly
The reporting today is from Reuters that because there's a report that we're running low on our interceptors for these missiles at our outposts. And domestically, we've given so many to Ukraine, We've already given a bunch to Israel in the wars that they've been involved in, and we've been using them in our combat with the Houthis. We use them when we bomb Nigeria over Christmas. So there's a question about whether we have enough interceptors which are very, very expensive, we're told, reportedly 12 million. I've heard as low as 4 million. But I mean, the official said 12 million and you can be using them to take out a $30,000 drone. So it's like, it's a very, the ratio is not great for us because they've got a lot of drones, the Iranians do, and they have missiles and we need these interceptors for both. So now there's a report today From Reuters Per 5 people familiar with the plan, that the Trump administration plans to meet with executives from the biggest US Defense contractors at the White House on Friday to discuss accelerating weapons production as the Pentagon works to replenish supplies. Got Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, all the usual suspects to talk about things like Tomahawk missiles that Raytheon makes and a new agreement with the Pentagon at the same time that Reuters againics reports the White House meeting is coming as Deputy Defense Secretary Steven Feinberg has been leading Pentagon work in recent days on a supplemental budget request of around $50 billion that could be released as soon as Friday. The new money would pay for replacing the weapons used in recent conflicts, including those in the Middle East. 50 billion is a huge, huge number, Glenn. It's especially huge in advance of midterms when people are having difficulty paying their rent and their mortgage. And their number one complaint, according to the polls, is the economy.
- [71:10]
Glenn Greenwald
I mean, this is everything Trump ran on not doing. I mean, that is the reality. You can say he changed his mind. You can say whatever conditions change. This is exactly what Trump told people he would not do, was pursue foreign wars that didn't have a direct threat to the United States and use our resources for Raytheon and Boeing and General Dynamics instead of renewing their communities with infrastructure and with health care and with the kinds of things that Americans should have just to live a decent middle class life. It's a total violation of what he told Americans. I'm so glad you brought up, if I can just quickly about this issue about depleting our stockpiles, especially our anti missile defenses, which are crucial to how we've been defending Israel. Dan Caldwell is, I think one of the smartest people on this question. I interviewed him a lot, I've talked to him a lot. He used to be a very high ranking official in the, yeah, he's fantastic in the Pentagon, got booted out in sort of a power play. But he knows as much about, if not more about this than anything. And he talks about how during the 12 Day War, the US and Israel had to end that war because, as Trump said, Israel was getting pummeled hard by ballistic missiles and they were running out. What Iran has done in this instance is they're not just sending them to Israel, they're sending them to all of the Persian Gulf states on which the United States relies, Saudi Arabia, but especially the Emirate and Bahrain and Saudi Jordan. All these states are getting hit and they don't have very many anti missile defenses at all. And this idea that we're going to just ramp up production, these are extremely complex systems. They track missiles, they take missiles out of the sky. There's no such thing as ramping up production in a way that's going to be ready in a few weeks or even a couple of months. These are years long processes to produce them. That's why we ran out last year. We were using them in Yemen, we gave them to Israel, we gave them to Ukraine, we used it to defend Israel. And we don't, we still don't have very many because of how long it takes and how intricate the process is to rebuild and replenish the stockpile. That is a major, major issue.
- [73:00]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And reportedly it's one of the reasons why we waited to even launch this thing because we were considering doing it a few weeks ago when all those protesters were on the streets of Iran. But we didn't because we realized we needed to reposition our military assets and we needed to shore up some of these interceptors for the expected missile attacks both at the US Bases and with our friends. And now it sounds like we're spread thin. Although the good news, if you, you know, if you're looking for good news here, appears to be that at least for now, the number of missiles being launched out of Iran has gone down. Here's General Jack Keane on Fox News yesterday. Yeah.
- [73:39]
Glenn Greenwald
Tuesday, 31, where we are, it exceeds
- [73:44]
Megyn Kelly
a lot of expectations here.
- [73:46]
Glenn Greenwald
Yesterday, after two days, we have reduced attacks by 50%.
- [73:52]
Megyn Kelly
Today, after three days, we've reduced the attacks by 75%.
- [73:56]
Glenn Greenwald
Not only that, this is from ballistic missiles now, and not only that, but
- [74:02]
Megyn Kelly
the Iranians had, through their own intelligence and communication with each other. And obviously we have a capability to understand what they're communicating, what they're putting, what orders they're putting out. Their own extra expectation was salvos, Martha, 25 to 50 salvos.
- [74:20]
Glenn Greenwald
And the reason for that is if
- [74:21]
Megyn Kelly
you shoot all those missiles at the
- [74:23]
Glenn Greenwald
same time, you're going to overwhelm the
- [74:26]
Megyn Kelly
Israeli defense systems and overwhelm the US Defense systems at Our bases?
- [74:31]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, they haven't been able to do that.
- [74:34]
Megyn Kelly
So what do you make of it?
- [74:36]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, I'm not privy to the intelligence I would need to be to say for certain if that's true or not. I would put the very strong note of caution that the government, the military, in every war, not just our own, but every country's lie to the population, always tell them that we're winning, whether we are or not. This is a very common thing. But let's just assume that that's true because there is this theory that they've been using their primitive missiles on purpose. They're primitive just to exhaust the anti missile capabilities and that they're really hypersonic and more advanced ones are ones that they're going to use once those defenses are eroded. But let's assume they're running out of missiles. We're bombing their, their missile facilities, making the whole point of what happened in the Iraq war between Ukraine and, sorry, the Ukraine war between Ukraine and Russia is that this has been a war that wasn't determined by these big gigantic, technologically sophisticated missile systems, but by very cheap drones. That's what's doing all of the damage on the battlefield. And a lot of this supply that Russia has been using has been coming from Iran. That's the thing is you don't need ballistic missiles to do huge damage as you were just describing. You need like 20, $30,000 drones that you can shoot huge amounts of even if you don't have a lot of ballistic missiles left and do a ton of damage. Especially if you're eroding the anti missile capability not just of the US and Israel, but again the Persian Gulf countries that are going to start demanding that the US stop because their populations are being exposed to attack. And I think there's a lot of complications here that aren't being, you know, it's day five. The other thing I'll quickly add is, you know, Pete Hexa said we totally dominate them. We have control of their air, their navy, the waters, the navy. We determine their fate. If we can totally dominate Iran in five days, after five days of war, how is it possible at the same time to say that this was some grave power that was threatening the United States when apparently according to Pete Hegseth, it just all completely crumbled. They have like 30 year old systems, he said, and it's hard to reconcile those claims with the claim that Iran is some sophisticated grave power that can do great damage to Americans at home. Mm.
- [76:37]
Megyn Kelly
Well, the President was out there yesterday trying to do some cleanup in aisle seven after Marco Rubio appears to have told the truth to the Gang of eight and then was kind of forced to say it to reporters because he'd already said it to the Gang of eight, which is the reason why we launched this attack when we did. That's the most charitable interpretation, that the time, the, the statement was just about timing. But Marco Rubio very clearly told reporters that we did it because we knew that there was going to be Israeli action and that there would be a retaliatory strike by Iran against us. And we preferred to hit them first, but that Bibi was in there saying we're doing it Israel and that we made a calculation we better join with them because we're going to take incoming from Iran in response to that and we don't want to be hit after. Like we don't want to be hit before we've hit. Here was that comment from Rubio on Monday, Sat 16, as it was abundantly
- [77:27]
Glenn Greenwald
clear that if Iran came under attack by anyone, the United States or Israel or anyone, they were going to respond and respond against the United States. We knew that there was going to be an Israeli action. We knew that that would precipitate an attack against American forces. And we knew that if we didn't preemptively go after them before they launched those attacks, we would suffer higher casualties. There absolutely was an imminent threat. And the imminent threat was that we knew that if Iran was attacked and we believed they would be attacked, that they would immediately come after us.
- [77:57]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, then there was a follow up by the, by a reporter on site saying, like, basically, wait, did you just say that we did this because of Israel? Watch, this was forced to strike because of an impending Israeli action?
- [78:08]
Glenn Greenwald
No. First. Well, I mean, two things I would say. Number one is, no matter what, ultimately this operation needed to happen. That's the question of why now. But this operation needed to happen because Iran, in about a year or a year and a half would cross the line of immunity, meaning they would have so many short range missiles, so many drones, that no one could do anything about it. Obviously we were aware of Israeli intentions and understood what that would mean for us and we had to be prepared to act as a result of it. But this had to happen no matter what.
- [78:33]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so that's him saying ultimately at some point we were going to have to hit them, but we had to do it now because of Israel, which is like sort of his. It's the same, same thing as what he said in the first soundbite. Which is, we had to do this because of Israel. And the reporter basically said, did you say we had to do because of Israel? And he said, no, eventually it was going to have to happen, but we did it because of Israel. And then yesterday, Rubio went out and spoke to reporters and took umbrage at the fact that they were saying, hey, you said yesterday we had to do it now because of Israel. And he said, oh, no, I didn't go back and look. Well, we did. We went back. I looked at the entire transcript, and I love Rubio. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat for president. But he was not taken out of context. He did say that. He said it over and over and over. If you watch the whole oppressor, you read the whole transcript, he said it repeatedly. The thing about Israel. And you tell me what's really going on here, Glenn? Because for me, I gotta be honest, I'm confused, because the obvious response, if Israel was in there, Bibi saying, we're going to go now, the ayatollah is having a meeting, we got to take them out. We're doing it with or without you. If we did not want that would have been to say, no, we're the senior partner. Everybody knows that Trump could have stopped Bibi if we were worried about retaliatory strikes, that we're not ready yet. And we didn't do that. We clearly wanted to do that. So is this Israeli inspired? Is it for Israel or isn't it?
- [79:49]
Glenn Greenwald
Well, one thing that I know for sure, and Netanyahu has said it many times in the past several weeks, is that this has been his number one wish for 40 years, is to lure the United States into a regime change war, or a very serious war with Israel's main adversary in the Middle east, which is Iran. You can literally go back 40 years to Netanyahu advocating this. And now he says, this has long been my number one wish list. This has been the wish list of Israel loyalists and neocons in the United States. They plan to do it after Iraq, but got tied down in Iraq. You can go find 2004 articles where they're like, now we're on to Tehran. But the problem that Rubio has, and by the way, other people said exactly what Rubio said, and including Tom Cotton and others, because if you think about it, and Speaker Johnson and Mike Johnson. Exactly. So the problem.
- [80:31]
Megyn Kelly
And members of the Gang of Eight have come out and said that's what they were told. But when they got briefed over the weekend as well I mean, in every comment, they said, we had to because Israel was going to do this, and we had no choice but to go along.
- [80:43]
Glenn Greenwald
Exactly. And the reason for it is because the reason why, you know, Mark Ruby is a very competent speaker, very quick on his feet, but the reason it was so difficult is because you have to say that this was a preventative war. Otherwise the war has no basis. Like, why did you just go and attack Iran if they weren't going to attack us? So they have to say, oh, no, they were going to attack us and we wanted to attack first. Nobody believes that Iran was just going to, out of the blue, attack the United States and provoke a war that they obviously have been working very hard to prevent. Nobody was going to believe that. So then the question is, why would they attack us? And the only cogent, sensible answer that Marco Rubio could have given was, oh, they were going to attack us because Israel was going to attack them. Meaning we were forced into this war by what Israel was going to do. Go. Look at how Donald Trump talks to Europe and the leverage he knows he has by virtue of the fact that we spend so much on their defense and he's constantly badgering them and telling them what they can and can't do. Israel is a thousand times more dependent on the United States, on our finances. We finance that country, we arm them, we go to war for them, we diplomatically protect them. Trump could have, in theory, just told Netanyahu, we're not ready for a war with Iran. We don't want a war with Iran. So, no, you cannot attack them because that will put our troops in harm's way, which is exactly what happened. Six of them died in the first 24 hours. So the question is, why didn't Trump do that? And there's a lot of theories about it, but clearly he is somebody who is beholden to Netanyahu and Miriam Adelson and this whole crew that has become dominant.
- [82:06]
Megyn Kelly
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- [84:27]
Glenn Greenwald
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Megyn Kelly
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Glenn Greenwald
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- [84:56]
Megyn Kelly
Brought to you by Argenics. Hey everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius xm. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel. And it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, RealClearPolitics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111 and on the SiriusXM app.
- [85:33]
Glenn Greenwald
And the last thing I just wanna quickly add, Megan, is Marco Rubio saying, this was something we had to do, we had to eventually go to war with Iran. If that were true, why didn't Donald Trump throughout 2024, when he was running for president, let the American people know, hey, by the way, we're going to have to go to war with Iran at some point? He said the opposite. He did say, we can't allow them to have a nuclear weapon. But a major war like this, sinking their navy, shattering their city, if that were, if everybody knew Trump had to do that, why was that hidden from the American people when he was running for president? That should have been something that should have been part of the plank of
- [86:04]
Megyn Kelly
the Republican Party, the iaea, which does the inspections of the Iranian nuclear program. The Defense Intelligence Agency here in America, reportedly both had been saying Iran is not anywhere near getting a nuclear weapon or and is not shorter than 10 years away from getting a ballistic missile that could hit the United States. So they were telling the intelligence that President Trump was getting was saying there is not an imminent attack. There is not a rebuilding of the nuclear program. There is only an ambition. There's a desire by the Iranians to do it. That's. I don't, I don't know when we've ever launched a war based on desire, like an unfulfilled, esoteric desire. This is why it's all so extraordinary. And yet it seems to me that they saw an opportunity to take out the Ayatollah, who is a bad guy and is real hated. And Bibi Netanyahu made very clear for those 40 years and during his seven visits to the White House, this is undisputed, that he wanted to launch a war against Iran and that he was pressuring President Trump to help. He wanted the United States to help. And he knew he couldn't do it without our blessing. And we decided to go along with it pretty late in the game, according to all the reports. So to me, that's why it's All. All of it makes very clear this was a Netanyahu inspired action. He wanted it, and he talked our President into it, because, let's face it, Iran's not been warm and fuzzy towards the United States, and they've committed multiple sins against us and our troops in Iraq and elsewhere. And we're kind of pissed. We don't fucking like Iran. And the Ayatollah's killed a lot of Americans. So it's like there's been simmering, building resentment for years. That's not normally why you launch a hot war out of the blue when you've run on not launching wars. That's how I see it.
- [87:45]
Glenn Greenwald
Two months before the last attack on Iran by the United States and Israel last year, in June of 2025. Two months before that, Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, the person whose job it is to understand and coordinate and, and, and summarize the intelligence for President Trump, went before the Senate and testified under oath that the consensus at the intelligence agencies is that the Iranian government had not made any decision to try and acquire a nuclear weapon. That's the first thing that was the intelligence. And then when they asked Trump about it, he was like, I don't care what she says. Very similar to how Dick Cheney was told by the CIA that Iraq, that Saddam Hussein doesn't have wmd, and he just said, I don't care what you say, and created his own kind of alternative world that just justified the war. And then the second thing is, you know, why would Iran want a nuclear weapon? The reason, Megan, is, is like, look at the countries we attack, and look at the countries we don't attack. We've been told forever that North Korea is run by crazy, insane, fanatical people. We don't go and attack them. Why not? Because they have nuclear weapons. Countries with nuclear weapons don't get messed with. We've created a world where people understand if you don't have nuclear weapons, you're liable at any moment to get attacked by the United States or Israel. If you have nuclear weapons, you're all safe and secure. We've created a world where every rational country is incentivized to get them, and that is a dangerous signal to send to the world.
- [89:02]
Megyn Kelly
Well, just yesterday, we saw an announcement from Poland that they are now going to be pursuing a nuclear weapon. And so, you know, it is kind of scary to think more allies with Poland, obviously, in their NATO. But the question is, how many more are now going to say, I'm getting one. I don't care what you think. MARK Levin, Very, very happy, almost as happy as Lindsey Graham over this whole thing and taking issue with the remarks, I made them, many other people made them, that we're angry about those six dead American service men and women. We're angry and we don't feel that they needed to die and that they died in a war that was for Israel, not for us. This is a war that was for Israel. It was at Israel's behest and which was unnecessary. This was not a defensive action. Iran was not attacking us. You know, it was not like when we went after the Taliban after 9, 11 and Al Qaeda. I mean, we had been attacked. It was a massive provocation. And no one would reasonably dispute that we had the right to defend ourselves, which is why so many countries came to fight with us. That plus the NATO obligation. Anyway, here's Mark Levin yesterday.
- [90:09]
Glenn Greenwald
But the battle against the Iranian regime, the purpose is to protect the American
- [90:16]
Megyn Kelly
people, protect our armed forces, protect the
- [90:20]
Glenn Greenwald
homeland, help our allies, protect tens of thousands of people from being slaughtered who've been slaughtered and yes, retribution to make it clear that you don't get to do this to us for half a century without any effective response. So, of course, if we lose heroes and we lost three and there may be born, the president says likely so because it's a massive military operation. It's a terrible thing. They gave their lives, they gave their lives for a great cause.
- [90:57]
Megyn Kelly
A great cause. Frank Gaffney was on with Steve Bannon two days ago, saying it's basically cost for free. He's like, I know some service personnel died, but this is basically cost free to us. So great cause, cost free. Your thoughts?
- [91:11]
Glenn Greenwald
You know, for a long time it was taboo to talk about the fact that US Foreign policy is driven by Israel and people who in the United States view Israel as their their most sacred cause, even though presidents in private have long said that. I mean, there's tapes of Richard Nixon going back and Barry Goldwater said it and you go on and on, but in public nobody was allowed to say it. And so the problem was, is that we created this climate where a major fact about our foreign policy and about the wars we fight was banned, basically because you would be stand accused of bigotry and racism and anti Semitism if you said that. Thankfully, that taboo is now broken, though they're desperately trying to maintain it. And I think the main reason is, of course they are. They're desperate, but it's done. I mean, they don't there's, there's too much because of independent media, too many sources of information. And you know, it's like the left found out if you overuse the racism accusation or misogyny or homophobia, you drive it into the point of meaninglessness and nobody cares anymore. And that's the same as they found with antisemitism. If everybody is anti Semite, it basically now means nothing. They've trivialized the term. The reality is that Israel pours huge amounts of money into our political system. Right now they're spending, you know, tens of millions of dollars from Mary Adelson on down to remove Thomas Massie from the Congress in a one single Kentucky district congressional because of his opposition to, to the US Financing and arming Israel. They've succeeded in doing that to many other people. People are petrified of the Israel lobby. And that has been a major reason why we've been so willing to send our troops into the Middle east to die for Israel. In fact, you know, Megan, during the bombardment of Gaza and then there were some exchange of missiles, we deployed our own troops to go defend Israel. And there were people in military bases who died. American soldiers during that time. They definitely died for Israel. And we were supposed to get out of the Middle East. For so long, the US Security state was saying we need to pivot to Asia. We no longer have vital interests in the Middle East. What are our vital interests in the Middle East? Oil. We have so much oil. Those countries will happily provide us oil. We control Venezuelan's oil. Oil is not a vital interest. We've long been told China is our main adversary. Pivot to Asia. And yet we can't extricate ourselves from the Middle East. And the reason is for Israel. And as we're spending billions and billions and billions on these wars, look at what China is doing. They don't fight wars. They haven't fought a war since 1979 because they know how self destructive they are.
- [93:32]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, but I'm sure they're building up their interceptors and their military assets quietly, steadily throwing money at that problem while we're over here expending all of ours for a war that benefits a foreign country, a country of 9 million people, not the country of 350 million people. I mean, that's why the Daily Mail has a poll out today talking about where the President's numbers are right now in the wake of this. And it's not good. And this is just months before we have the midterms. Where you've got it shows President Trump down 4 points just since Friday they say that he's at 44%, down 4 points since Friday, marking the lowest rating recorded in Daily Mail tracking to date. Only 24% of voters believe killing Iran's supreme Leader will make Americans safer. 55% claim the risk of terror attacks on US soil has gone up because of these strikes. 40% of voters say their view of Trump has become more negative in the last week compared to 26% their opinion of him has improved. And obviously, when asked what the main reason was their view had worsened. 59% cited the war with Iran, Prices are too high, and now he started a war, said one respondent. So, I mean, that's the real thing. Like, to me, I just, it's amazing to me. I. I've gone through this whole crazy thing in the past, you know, I don't know, since last July. Since last July when I made one comment about whether Epstein might have been an asset for the Mossad. And people started calling me an anti Semite after being ardently pro Israel and very, very defensive, as I remain, of American Jews. And I was like, what's happened here? What? Why?
- [95:09]
Glenn Greenwald
Whoa.
- [95:09]
Megyn Kelly
Like, they know I'm not an anti Semit. They know that I'm not for sure they know that. So why are they unleashing that term against me? And then Charlie was murdered and the discussion came up about what his feelings were on Israel and you weren't allowed to even raise that. And I had had a conversation with Charlie in August that. The month before he was killed.
- [95:29]
Glenn Greenwald
I hope people go watch that. People should go watch that. If you haven't seen
- [95:35]
Megyn Kelly
was an incredible 30 minute exchange we had that wasn't even on the agenda. You know, when you're coming on the show, we'll give you a couple of, like a little outline, like we'll probably hit these five topics if you want to bone up. And we had done that for Charlie too, and we had not given Charlie anything about Israel. I just, it just, it was still resonating with me. We were both still reeling because we were both called anti Semites and he was still part pro Israel too. And we were, we were both pissed. It was like, what the fuck? This is bullshit. And we had a long talk about it. And then from that point forward, it's just been nonstop with, like, you're an anti Semite, you have to defriend Tucker, you have to speak out about this person or that person and their commentary. And I've been saying all along, I'm responsible for my own commentary. I don't. I have no obligation to defriend anyone. And by the way, I don't believe Tucker's an anti Semite and I'm responsible for the words that come out of my mouth. And that's it. Period. It's been nonstop. And now honestly Glenn, I can barely go on X because I get trolled so heavily by the pro Israel crowd and the Israel first crowd and then the bots. There are many, many bots on X that you know are part of an operation. And then there are many, many live humans on X who actually get $7,000 a tweet. People have come out and admitted it from the Israelis to troll anybody who deviates from the party line. And so like, I want the audience to understand that this is happening and it's an effort by a foreign country to silence the views of American about American foreign policy. That is fucked up. That's not okay. It's one thing to have regular Americans say I disagree with you on this, that's fine, we should all be doing that. It's quite another to have a foreign country actively interfering online to silence American voices about its interference in our affairs and the lives of our American service personnel.
- [97:32]
Glenn Greenwald
You know, Megan, I grew up in like a overwhelmingly Jewish like subculture. Every one of my family is Jewish, you know, friends, etc went to Jewish camp every year for, for the summer. There is anti Semitism in the world. Like there's racism, like there is everything else. And it has manifested in dangerous ways. But you can smell it. You can, you can sense it. I know Tucker extremely well. Hours and hours and hours in front of the camera, out of the camera talking to him. I know you very well. And when you see people who you know aren't even, I mean, Megan, you and I have fought on this very show where you were defending Israel or more so like the expulsion of anti Israel protesters on the grounds of anti Semitism. And this is like you for forever, you know, have been a stalwart defender of Israel and simply. And so was Charlie, but simply because you both started asking questions about, wait a minute, is this war really in our interest? Is this really Israel exerting undue interest, influence? They don't tolerate that debate and they start shutting it down by calling you a bigot and a racist. And when you have the self possession to know you're not that you will not be, you know, bullied by it. You will not be told that you can't speak about your own country and our government's policies. And by doing that they really have trivialized Anti Semitism, which has long been one of the big dangers, because it's supposed to pack a punch like you're supposed to not want to be called an anti Semite publicly. But they've so cynically exploited it into a weapon to force you to pledge loyalty to Israel, just like the left did with the racism accusation, as I said, that it's completely drained it of all its meaning. And they've done more than anybody else now, not just to open up what has long been necessary, which is this very serious debate about how much we do for Israel and why, but also they've opened up this. This world where, you know, people don't care anymore about standing accused of that accusation because people see how cynically it's wielded against people who so blatantly are far, far from anything that is recognizable as anti Semitism now. You know, I'm so relieved to see you and Tucker Charlie before he was murdered, and a lot of other people on the right. Thomas Massey, Roger, Charlie Greene, this is a. You're right. Benjamin Netanyahu says controlling the message on social media, combating anti Israel sentiment on social media is one of the most important battles that the Israelis have in their war. And they've done a lot to regain control of social media, including taking TikTok away and giving it to the Ellison family. But. And doing a lot on X as well. But it's so much as somebody who's been criticizing Israel and arguing about this for a long time, it's so much better now than it ever has been that finally we get to have this debate out in the open to the point where there's a New York Times article this morning saying that Trump battles the perception of his own base that this war was for Israel. That was unthinkable even five years ago.
- [100:20]
Megyn Kelly
I will say this in real life, which is not X, I have so many people stop me, Jewish Americans saying, this is such bullshit. We know you're not an anti Semite. Please don't listen to these rabid, you know, folks online. They don't speak for us. And I know that. But it. It is amazing to me just to watch the bullying happen, you know, where, like, they all pile on. And I've even noticed that if I put out a tweet that's critical of Israel or even mildly, you know, or like, whatever, Lindsey Graham, I'll get completely trolled on my tweet. But if somebody who's not considered an Israeli ally, you know, who's been more open in their racism of Israel, if they retweet the tweet, it's a very different response. Like they're not, they're not. I don't know if you are or not, but like a lot of the people who would retweet something I would tweet along these lines. They're not actively getting trolled anymore, or maybe they never were. Maybe they're people like me who they considered a strong ally, who they think might be waffling. They, they reserve a particular ire for people like that in the same way that, like, if you were a Democrat and you turn on the Democrats, they really pile on you, you know what I mean? Like you've, you've betrayed them, you're supposed to be on their team and you didn't, you aren't any longer. And I'll tell you what it's like. I'm allowed to have questions about Israel. I have been, I haven't been ardently defensive of Israel, you know, for my career. But in general, I mean, as you, as you and I have talked about before, I'm not like huge on foreign policy.
- [101:43]
Glenn Greenwald
Right, right.
- [101:43]
Megyn Kelly
And you know, I'm mildly supportive of Israel in general and certainly after 10, seven, very defensive of Israel's right to defend itself fully and really just didn't pay that much attention to the day to day conduct of the war, though I saw the terrible headlines. My biggest struggle over the past couple of years has been who do I trust on information, on the death toll, on who's getting, you know what I mean? It was like there's, so Hamas is a propaganda artist and now what I see is so is Israel, so Israel is Israel. Like they are absolutely working and paying to manipulate public opinion in the United States as we speak. And so I no longer trust them when it comes to messaging either. And I will not be silenced by bullies of any kind. Whether it's BLM bullies, whether it's leftist bullies, whether it's, you know, the, the people who tried to cancel me after Trump and I had that debate, bullies, whether it's Vladimir Putin, I will not be silenced by these bullies. I don't. And you warned them.
- [102:33]
Glenn Greenwald
You warned them, you warned them ahead of time. You said, if you think this is going to silence me, it's going to have the opposite effect. Charlie said the same thing. Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest you were some like hardcore Israel crusader, just that, you know, on foreign policy, you worked at Fox, I think you were generally supportive of the war on terror mindset with a question. You were never somebody, I guess I just mean that you were never somebody who was like an Israel critic. And even after October 7th, as you just recounted it, and I know for this personally, you were somebody who was mostly sympathizing with Israel. They had been attacked with your view, and these protesters were anti Semitic. And to watch them basically pick you up and Charlie up and Tucker as well, and basically turn you into anti Semites just simply for expressing some, some questions or doubts, would you have every, not just the right, but the obligation to do as American journalists, as American citizens. It's, it's disgusting. It's, it's as despicable to me as what the left did when they accused people of, of being racist or otherwise bigoted without any basis whatsoever. And it's creating the same backlash. It's exactly the same mentality. It's exactly the same tactic.
- [103:34]
Megyn Kelly
Thankfully, I have experience there too, and I was swept up in that as well. Like, I've been called all the things, so I'm used to being called the things. It's, it's not pleasant, but you can't, you can't let it silence you. I worry more about, like, regular citizens who are having the same doubts I am and experience this kind of blowback in their own personal lives and don't maybe have a platform and don't have like a daily reassurance in terms of whatever. There's their ability to go out there and keep doing their job that they're secure. And so this, like, it has to stop and we have to speak out about it. I still support President Trump fully. I am completely rooting for our success in what is clearly a war. I am 100% rooting for our troops. But I'd like it to end. I'd like it to end ASAP so we can minimize the loss of human life and go back to worrying about our own citizens. Glenn Greenwald, thank you. Thank you for always being here, always.
- [104:23]
Glenn Greenwald
Great to see you, Megan.
- [104:24]
Megyn Kelly
Thanks for having you on. We're back tomorrow with the pastor who was interrupted by Don Lemon. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.
- [104:43]
Glenn Greenwald
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- [104:49]
Megyn Kelly
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- [104:56]
Glenn Greenwald
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- [105:14]
Megyn Kelly
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