Graham Linehan (5:52)

Attention, lady shoppers. Gifts for husbands like pipes and slippers are now available on the first floor. Who's got the most boring voice?

Rich Lowry (6:01)

Wash of the lot of us?

Megyn Kelly (6:02)

Who's got the most boring voice?

Graham Linehan (6:04)

Well, it'll be me.

Megyn Kelly (6:05)

Ted, listen, this is what we're going to do. What's going on? I think Ted has a plan.

Charles C.W. Cooke (6:12)

No, I mean in general.

Megyn Kelly (6:15)

I can't find our way out of the lantry section.

Graham Linehan (6:20)

Ladies and gentlemen, could you please bring your purchases to the checkout as the store is about to close? Hurry up. Come on, hurry up, will you? Not that way.

Megyn Kelly (6:31)

For f. The other way. Go, go. All right. For the listening audiences, classic irreverent British humor. This thing was. To say it was a hit is to understate. You know, that's like saying, well, you know, Friends was a hit. Yeah, this was a huge hit and he did very well and he's very well known. And instead of most public figures who are too cowardly to, once they've made their money and made their name, ever speak out on an issue as controversial as the trans issue? Graham did. In fact, he was an early advocate for sanity on this issue. And it has happened. It has come at great cost to him. This. This courage of his. It's ridiculous how much he's lost just because of his willingness to speak truth on this issue. He's been fighting back against the trans madness for years, notwithstanding the suffering it's caused in his not just professional, but his personal life as well. All the way up to now, his freedom being endangered and still says he will not be silenced. He joins me now for his first on camera interview since his arrest days ago. All right, do you want to know about something positive and upbeat. Well, I've been telling you about Firecracker Farm hot salt. It's been a showstopper gift and a must have item for anyone that enjoys spicing up their food. So what exactly is hot salt, you ask? Glad you asked. It's sea salt infused with a blend of hot pepper that's made by a wonderful little family company. It comes in sleek stainless steel push grinders that feel great in your hand and are really satisfying to use. Their motto is, everything is better with hot salt. And based on the reviews, customers are in full agreement, so give it a try. Go to Firecracker Farm right now. Use the code mk. Okay? Because this will get you a special discount when you check out. Firecracker Farm. Firecracker Farm. I say code mk. Go and get, get some. Get your hot salt before it's all gone. You'll thank me. Graham, welcome.

Graham Linehan (9:02)

Hi, Megan. Thank you very much.

Megyn Kelly (9:05)

It's an honor to have you here. Let's just start before we get to the absurdity of what happened at Heathrow, with what, what made you speak out about this issue early on? Because you really were pretty early in the battle and, you know, like I said, it was not without risk when you were. It was with more risk when you first started speaking about it.

Graham Linehan (9:26)

Oh, yeah, it, it was instant. Yeah, I, I was cancelled instantly. I shared an article that was, you know, very compassionate and about both sides of the debate, written by a, a brilliant woman over here called Heather Brunskill Evans. And I actually shared it when I was in my hospital bed and I think possibly because I was coming out of a operation and I was a bit giddy on morphine and I remember thinking to myself, why am I so scared to get into this debate? You know, there's no, it's, it's clearly correct. And, and I sent off, off that article and within moments, the first respond, first responses that came back was I wish the canc one, you know, so that, that continued. First of all, it was basically, you know, the shock troops of the Internet piling in, doing edited, edited screenshots of my tweets that made it look like I was saying different things, sometimes making up things entirely. There was a, a Photoshop of a fake apology that I sent to the women of Mom's Net, which is a popular website over here, a feminist website or woman's website, and they did a fake Photoshop of me apologizing for sending people dick pics. So this was like constant. And it just kept happening. And. But the Thing is, I thought the message was so important that, you know, women need single sex spaces. I thought that was very obvious. Women need fair sports. I thought that was very obvious. Men shouldn't be in women's prisons. I thought that was very obvious. And children shouldn't be mutilated and sterilized in gender clinics. And I genuinely thought that all my friends would come rallying to my side, all the people, all the friendships I've made over my whole career and not a single person stood up for me. So I started to be targeted by actually a very small group of trans identified men, one of whom is a convicted sex offender who sexually assaulted a boy when he was 14 years old. And these men have the police wrapped around their finger. It's not just me who's been arrested. There has been, you know, several, dozens of women arrested in the UK over the last eight years. And again, these women are suffering in silence because no one with any authority will stand up to them. You know, Keir Starmer came into power saying that he would end the culture wars, but he hasn't, he's just hidden from, hid from them. So as a result, women are being hauled into court, put into cells and, and you know, the, the police over here are basically working for trans activists and trans. I want to make it very clear, I'm not talking about trans identified people. There's a lot of people who are trans identified who are very good, very decent. Some of them are confused, some of them are just gender non conforming. But trans activists, without wanting to put too much of a gloss on it, are the scum of the earth. They really are. They are the ab.

Megyn Kelly (12:38)

Worst. Yeah, they are 100% bullies and nine times out of 10 it's men. I mean, 99% of them are men masquerading as women who want to bully. And usually it's women, they want to bully women right out of their spaces and their rights. And two, too infrequently have we had really active men standing up for us too. So it's, it's amazing, you know, I mean, Billboard Chris is one of them, Matt Walsh is one of them. You're one of them. You know, the ones who do it and do it loud. We recognize, we see and it's wonderful, it's great. I think most women who are involved in this fight really appreciate it. Not that we wouldn't do it without men, but there have been some men who have been truly heroic in not lying down for this shit. And you're one of them. And honestly, in the UK it's even more rare because you don't have the free speech protections that we have here. And in general, the UK is closer to Canada. You know, it just has, like, it just seems to me has a. A country. They're much more willing to go along with this woke than they should be. And, you know, we've seen it time and time again, but you're not like that. Obviously, we have to mention she's not a man, but J.K. rowling has been totally fearless from the very beginning on all of this, and she's been defending you in the wake of this absurd arrest. So you. You not only did not have your colleagues stand by you, you lost your marriage, your health went downhill. I mean, I don't want to skip right over that, because when you invite this kind of stress and harassment, and I do use that word, harassment as a legal matter, you've been legally harassed by these trans activists. It comes at a physical and personal cost that people too frequently gloss by. Can you speak to it a bit?

Graham Linehan (14:30)

Well, yeah. I mean, the. The person I mentioned earlier, the sex offender, he. He released my home address online when I was. When I was still at the family home, which absolutely, you know, terrified my wife. And even recently. Oh, actually, that's. Sorry, that's to do with my current trial. I can't. I can't talk about my current trial. But they released our family address at home because I used, you know, as the writer of Father Ted, I was fairly well liked. So neither of us thought we had to be careful with our online footprint. But of course, when it flipped and I became public enemy number one, all the things that we put online were kind of rifled through by trans activists for anything they could use against me. And the first thing was my address. Then they started calling the police on me. And the police came to our home one morning, one Sunday morning, which really upset my wife. And it was. Since then, it's been, you know, never ending. It's. I've been visited by the police, I think, three times now, not including the arrest. Yeah. Oh, yeah, they came to my home. No. Is it three times? Yeah. Once at my home, one set of flat, and once in London. And, you know, I moved from Norwich to London when. When. When I got separated and. And, yeah, and I've never been out of litigation in this whole fight. I'm constantly being sued. I'm being sued at the moment by. By a particularly rabid trans activist named David Paisley, who's a C list actor, who. Who you know, has, has been involved in some appalling harassment of women and it's just constant. I'm never not on edge in, in my, in the, in the country I moved to, I'm Irish, but I moved to the UK in the, and I'm just always on edge now here because I never know if I'm going to be arrested or attacked in the street or whatever it happens to be. Because as you know, trans activists, apart from anything else, are very violent and very volatile. So it's just not a fun place for me anymore. So that's why I eventually moved to Arizona.

Megyn Kelly (16:46)

But you know, you said something at one point that really resonated with me, which was, you have a daughter. And we kind of throw that out sometimes. Like I'm speaking for my daughter because she can't speak up for herself, you know, when our, when our daughters are young in particular. But this, this really is that you said the quote was. Let's see. It's a good question. Okay. I don't want my daughter to go into college and have a male bodied person whose story she doesn't know in the toilet with her. She cannot object to it. So I had to take the fight on for her. Now the, the, the sentence she cannot object to it is true in a number of ways, right? Sometimes they're too little to actually be able to object, and sometimes they are old enough to actually form the words. But the social cost to a minor girl whose life is in front of her, who still hasn't gotten her first job or into college is enormous. I mean, it's next to impossible for these girls to actually speak out about it. Which is why we see of them fewer and fewer these days, or more and more are saying something, but still the vast majority don't, standing there like hostages on their sports teams when the enormous male joins the basketball team and they, they look like, sure, I'm fine with it. Trans rights are human rights. And that is so right. If, if those of us who are fully grown, employed, and have established ourselves in one way, shape or form, don't take the risk for them, no one will.

Graham Linehan (18:21)

Yeah, yeah, that's it. And when you, and when you look at all these, all these young girls in sports teams in America, they've learned the lesson that most adults do not care about women or girls. And in fact, they will put the, the, the desires of men over the safety of women. I, I find that, I think this, the trans movement is the greatest insult that women have ever faced. And as to what you to what you were saying earlier. The other thing about the trans movement. Excuse me? The other thing about the trans movement is women all, all through it, get a terrible deal from it. You know, if a man transitions, he just has to put a dress on and say I'm trans. And suddenly everyone thinks he's trans. But when women do it, they get double mastectomies, they get, they get sterilized, you know, they get, they come out of it with their health absolutely destroyed. You know, I don't know whether you ever saw, but there was a heartbreaking, you know, from front seat video done by a woman and you know, he, she looks like a balding 40 year old man, you know, because the testosterone has just wreaked havoc with, with her system and she thought she was going to turn into a young man. But in fact, what people don't realize about testosterone in women is that every single woman who is on testosterone will go into early menopause. You know, and that brings with it.

Megyn Kelly (19:47)

That's right, yeah.

Graham Linehan (19:48)

That brings with it. Threat of dementia, increased threat of a heart attack is another thing that these women have to face. And I don't know if you notice, have you ever seen Ellen or Ellen stroke Elliot Page speak? You'll notice she has that little kind of kazoo voice. That's because her vocal cords have been swollen by the testosterone and her slender female neck is not able for it. So that's why you'll see a lot of these trans men have the same voice.

Megyn Kelly (20:17)

I did not know that. But no trans person ever lands the voice. The voice is a dead giveaway. Even the ones who can arguably pass as soon as they start speaking. It's so obvious and it's so uncomfortable. It's, it's genuinely jarring because even if they've managed to fool you, suddenly you're like, okay, I know what this is and it's a fraud. And I don't know actually whether I'm dealing with a dangerous person or not because there is a high rate of violence with some of these people. And on top of that there's also a very high number of these male to female, in other words, men pretending to be women. Trans people who are autogynophiles, who are in the middle of not gender confusion, but a sexual fetish, who want to get off on putting by putting on a dress next to your daughter or mine or me. And we have a society, both yours and mine still, that say, shut up and take it like a good girl, be nice about it. Or there's Something wrong with you or you, Graham, trying to stand up for your daughter? You're. Something's wrong with you. You're a bully, deviant who, who hates trans people and hates people who are different as opposed to someone who cares about safety and appropriate boundaries.

Graham Linehan (21:28)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, people call me monomaniacal on this, you know, but I would, I would. First of all, I challenge anyone not to be monomaniacal about an issue when it's been used to destroy your life and career. But the other thing is, how can people not be monomaniacal about a, A thing which damages children, you know, which puts women in danger? The Scottish. I mean that we still have men in women's prisons, both here and in the US and it's an absolutely disgraceful, ongoing situation. And I just find it extraordinary that something as clearly wrong as that. I heard one statistic which might be of interest to your viewers. Apparently, like, I can't remember, it's every time I say the number, it doesn't sound right because it's so high, but it is really high. Let's say it's over 80%, but I am minimizing it. 80% of women, or over 80% of women in prisons have blunt force trauma to the head caused by a partner at some point. So these, these. And also these women are not in for serious crimes. They're in for petty theft. They're in for all, you know, those kind of. And all. Also, there's, there's often a man behind these crimes. So these women are, are, are far more vulnerable than the male prison population, and they are being housed with not just men, but some of the worst men in the world. You know, Lisa, Lisa Nandy over here. Predators. Yeah. And the test of whether they're real trans or not is whether you get raped. That's the trans test. You know, if you, if you get raped, they're not a real trans person, but if you don't get raped. Oh, they are a real trans person. That's the transit. That's the transactivist argument, you know, so women are the actual, actual guinea pigs in this social experiment, you know, and it's, it's got to go. I don't know if. I don't know how long it's going to go on if people don't start speaking up.

Megyn Kelly (23:27)

No, the, the whole thing about, like, people. Why aren't you outraged? It reminds me very much of the bumper sticker that was all over the US When George W. Bush was president and we had invaded Iraq and We had two wars going, obviously. The Afghanistan one was brought upon us by Osama bin Laden, but Iraq was very controversial and the liberals used to ride around with bumper stickers that read, if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention. And that's how I feel about this issue. If you are not outraged, you're not paying attention. You point out about what the girls have to go through. I mean, the entire forearm is missing on these young girls. Missing. It's been gutted down to the bone as these derelict, disgusting, malpracticing, everyday surgeons in, quote, mutilate their arms to try to create a fake phallus for these girls. 9 out of 10 of whom are just upset mom and dad got divorced or have acne and normal, you know, puberty reluctance or just the, just the uncomfortableness that comes from going through the change of your body into a woman. It's insane. What we're, it's truly insane. So you, you find the courage to speak up. Eventually your wife and you break up. Overall, this stress, and as you, I think sagely said, it's, it's not, you didn't have any problems in your marriage, but when you add all these other layers of stress to an already stressed marriage, it's gonna fracture. It just is. So you lose your wife, you then lose your career. You guys were in the midst of trying to take Father Ted to the stage as a musical, and it was going swimmingly. You actually had some big names signing on, you were doing, like, rehearsals, you had songs, you had a great ending. And the one thing you thought was that your colleagues would stand by you. And yet.

Graham Linehan (25:22)

Yeah, they just, they just. One day I came down to London for what I thought was a meeting about the show. And the, the guy runs Hat Trick, who produced Father Ted, he told me that they wouldn't do it if I was involved. And they offered me £200,000 to walk away. And I remember I argued with him. I said, I said, you know, this is too important for me to stop talking about. I said, young girls are being, are being mutilated and sterilized in gender clinics. And he shouted at me, I don't care. You know, so that's what I was up against. And, you know, I expected at least my co writers, Neil Hannon, who I've been friends with for most of my life, Arthur Matthews, who I've been friends with for most of my life, to stand up for me and, and say, no, Graham's not a big, not a bigot. Of course, women need single Sex spaces. Of course they need fair sports. And I begged them to, I begged them to, but they never did. They never, they just refused. Refused, point blank. So, you know, I, and that was kind of the story with all my friends. You know, not a single one stood, stood by me. I went out to dinner with them and I just asked them to please say something that just, that just makes it sound like I'm not insane. Because one of the problems with this, Megan, is just people don't believe you. People don't believe it's happening because they can't, they can't take on the fact that the entire of society is lying to them. Over here in the uk, the BBC has been lying by omission about this subject for the last eight years.

Megyn Kelly (27:04)

Yes.

Graham Linehan (27:06)

You know, and the woman, I don't know. I sent you a video of my. I went on to. I was ambushed on Newsnight by Sarah Smith, who basically just made it all about my, the way I conducted myself online again. You know, of course I was angry. You know, I was, I was furious all the time.

Megyn Kelly (27:26)

Because you're missing the issue.

Graham Linehan (27:28)

You're missing the issue. And Sarah Smith is now the head of BBC North America. And I always worry when I see, when I see Americans taking on these very, very left wing attitudes on Palestine and on the trans issue, I, I do wonder how much of it is, because a lot of liberals over there are sort of Anglophiles, you know, which is very, which is very nice. But, but they, they take papers like the Guardian too seriously, channels like the BBC too seriously. And all these institutions have been completely captured. It's like a war has been fought without a battle, without a bullet fired. And all these, all these lunatics now have their feet under the table and are doing everything they can to, to continue to confuse the British public about what's going on.

Megyn Kelly (28:16)

Well, that's what you said is exactly true. We're talking about rhetorical bullets and by that we mean truth. Our side let these trans activists take over. They changed laws in the UK and here in the United States, all, like, all these blue states in America have a legal mandate to let boys who say they're girls use the girls bathroom and in many cases be on the girls sports team and in many cases mandate the use of whatever preferred pronoun that kid has. And in New York City, for example, where we used to live, mandates teachers to keep it a secret from the parents if the child says, don't tell my parents. So now you're encouraging grooming behavior secrets between minors and adults who are supposed to be supervising them during the day, excluding the parent. I mean, it's true insanity. And our side laid down, took a nap, and said, don't pay any attention to this or you're a bigot. And that's. We fired no rhetorical bullets. We, we kept our mouths shut. If anything, we said, oh, good for you. Go. Okay, good for you. Right? Because in the beginning, some people were lying. Like Malcolm Gladwell recently came out and said he knew it was bullshit and he lied. I think most of us are on the field, where I was in the initial days of these things, which was, I don't want to be a bully. And I saw trans people as an extension of lgb. And it was like, okay, you know, this is something they're grappling with, a legit issue. We shouldn't bully them. And it just turned out to be something very, very different than that. And I think now we're seeing what's real. And if you don't have the courage now, I have no time for you. I mean, if you don't speak up now, there's something wrong with you. Okay, which leads me back to your story, Graham. So you don't let up. You've lost your wife, you've lost your colleagues, you lost this play, this musical, which didn't happen, even though you could have really used the money. And you're still going. You're not shutting up. You're like a dog with a bone. And you send out three totally benign tweets, posts on X. I mean, I read them to the audience when you got arrested, but I'm going to reread them for today's audience. They were all in April, April 19th. One was, it showed a picture of a trans rights rally with the caption, a photo you can smell. One was same day, in reply to that picture and follow up, you wrote, I hate them. Misogynists and homophobes them. And then April 20th, the next day you posted, if a trans identified male is in a female only space, he is committing a violent, abusive act. Make a scene, call the cops, and if all else fails, punch him in the balls. And these are the tweets that led to what happened to you last week. So you were in Arizona, you've been living in Arizona, but you had to go back to the UK because you're in this legal dispute with this trans activist as a male pretending to be a female, who you may not be able to say anything about it, but I can. So this guy got in Your face with this video camera at one of these events and seemed to be following you around and seemed to be invading your privacy and your space, and you flicked the phone out of the way and said something to him, and now he's suing you, claiming, oh, he damaged my phone and damaged me and whatever. These trans activists, in my opinion, are absolute fucking lunatics. And the closer they come to you, the more you should run. I don't blame you for not wanting to be within the same arm space as this person, but that'll play out in the UK courts, however it plays out. It's not. It's really not why you're here. You went over there because you had to in connection with that case. You. You land at Heathrow, were you expecting any sort of problem?

Graham Linehan (32:16)

Well, when you said, I hardly got out of the airport, I didn't get out of the plane, you know, the plane land. Yeah, yeah, the plane landed. Well, I got out of the plane, I took a step out of the plane, but the plane landed. And, you know, people were told to stay in their seats. And I thought something was. Was up, you know, in terms of, you know, just some normal airport problem. And then they called my name out, you know, and as soon as they called my name, I. I sort of started to realize. I started. I sort of knew what was happening because, you know, it's. It's kind of what I was. It's something I expect, to be honest, I expect to be arrested by the police because they follow every single complaint. But here's the thing. I was on my way back for a trial now, they must have known that, so they, I think, did it deliberately. And the way it works over here when you're arrested with, for, you know, free speech, tweeting crimes is they just put you in a cell for as long as they can. So I was in a cell for something like 12 hours. And it's. That's the punishment. We, we have a phrase over here among, you know, gc, gender critical and feminist in feminist circles, the process is the punishment. And for eight years, you know, women have been put through this process. Some of them have suffered far more than me. And it's, you know, the. The British police are just willing participants. I did think it was funny that, that the first thing all these Arizonian people saw when the plane landed was a comedy writer being arrested for tweets. It was the most perfect and appropriate welcome to the uk. They could have got really, you know, but, but yeah, so they. They brought me out and I, I, they said, we want to speak to you. And I've been met by the police before at airports. I was met by the police in New Zealand and they were very kind, sweet to me and they just wanted to, to know my movements so, so that they could provide an unmarked car just to keep an eye on things in case trans activists were a problem. But, so I, I didn't immediately think they were going to arrest me, but they did ask me, they said, can we go somewhere private to speak? So we went down this kind of tunnel and through a doorway and they stood around me and he said, your passport is on a wanted list or something, or it was flagged up or something and you're being arrested for, you know, a tweet. He only thought it was one, I think it was the one about punch him in the balls. And, and I went a bit nuts because I just couldn't believe it. You know, they tried to, they were even going to handcuff me because I was so out of control. And I said, you're not, you're not going to put cuffs on me for defending women's rights. And finally they, they very kindly, I think, because I don't think, I don't blame the police for this. You know, the police don't believe any of this. The police, unfortunately, are just, I mean, you know the old phrase, they're just following orders and they have no idea what's going on. They don't understand this issue and so they're just doing what they're told. So, like, I calmed down, I started to get on quite well with the, with the officers. But then, and then I was taken into a van because, because I asked him, please don't march me through the airport, you know. So they brought a van around on the tarmac or whatever you call it, and, and I went to it and, and I thought, oh, at least I'm, at least this is a bit, you know, civilized. And then I saw that I was going to be put in like a little white kind of corner of the van where you have to sit like this and you can't stretch out your legs and, and I just thought, holy shit, they're really going to do this, you know. And then that just began. A night of being processed, going into my cell. Luckily I was exhausted from the flight because I could never sleep on planes, so I slept in the cell and that killed a few hours. But I genuinely think the reason I was, I was kept was, was, you know, processes to punishment. They just wanted to make me Frightened of tweeting, of speaking my mind, you.

Megyn Kelly (36:29)

Know, and that's what they ordered it do we know?

Graham Linehan (36:33)

I think it was a mid level person. I don't think it was anyone big. I don't know really.

Megyn Kelly (36:39)

But when you say the police aren't to blame, who is to blame?

Graham Linehan (36:43)

Oh, yeah, well, you know, whoever ordered it is to blame. I'm talking about the, the, the, you know, rank and file. The, the, whoever ordered it is just an idiot, you know, I mean, this is, this is blown back in their face so much better than I could ever have hoped. And it's been good. It's been, yeah, it's been fantastic over here. I'm getting thumbs up from cabbies. I'm, I'm getting lots of little secret smiles from people. It's been wonderful, you know, and they just as, that's the thing about trans activists, they always, always overreach, you know.

Megyn Kelly (37:18)

Yes.

Graham Linehan (37:18)

And what, when they overreach, that's when, you know, people start to sit up and take notice.

Megyn Kelly (37:24)

Yeah. In my opinion, it's because they're crazy. They're crazy. They're not able to accurately gauge the situation and weigh risks and rewards. They are delusional and so they think they're going to get a different outcome than they are. And it's because in part of the discussion we had where we rolled over and went to sleep for all those years, and they're used to Americans and English citizens doing that and people throughout the UK and we're not doing that anymore. So it's very frustrating to them and it's leading to their own bad behavior and terrible results. So in a way, you know, you're a sacrificial lamb, Graham, but thank you, because we need that. I mean, easy for me to say, but we do need that. So what? By the way, you're lucky because here in the United States there's a very high likelihood you would have been subjected to a strip search. So let's be glad it doesn't sound like you had to go through that. But were they armed? I think normally they're not.

Graham Linehan (38:16)

I think that would have been. Yeah, no, I think they would have been, that would have been more punishment for them if I'd been script searched. Yeah, they were armed. But, but, but, but I, but, but I must, I, I actually must make it clear it was very disturbing to see armed police officers. But it is normal for Heathrow officers to be armed.

Megyn Kelly (38:33)

Okay.

Graham Linehan (38:34)

Simply.

Megyn Kelly (38:35)

But they had like a. One cop per limb and then an extra for like your head to keep your mouth shut, I guess, like five on one. Like, truly, like you were some sort of terrorist is how it sounds to me. So they take you to the jail and then you wound up having heart problems. Like your blood pressure soared, you were under a lot of stress. You wound up having to get referred for medical help. So this is just further evidence of the level of stress this is. This does not come without stress for you, you know, like. Oh, yeah, it doesn't come without stress for anybody. Honestly, like, I. I know a lot of people in media who are very outspoken on a lot of issues and people who my audience would think don't stress out. Like they, whatever. They keep coveting controversy. And I am here to tell you, they do stress out. They get stressed. They just refuse to back down. Like, there's just a certain kind of person that just says, I don't care. Like, I will take it. And that's what you're going through. From the sound of it, we do have some video of the arrest. It was posted via the Sun. Let's watch a little bit of it here in SOP4. It's audio.

Rich Lowry (39:41)

2025.

Megyn Kelly (39:42)

It's alleged that on April 19th you publish a post on X that was deemed to be intended to steal hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation. I can't tell you what the post was.

Graham Linehan (40:01)

Comedy writer.

Megyn Kelly (40:05)

You idiot. Graham says.

Graham Linehan (40:12)

You know what this country looks like.

Megyn Kelly (40:25)

Calm down.

Graham Linehan (40:37)

For women's rights.

Megyn Kelly (40:40)

Wow. How do you feel when you hear that?

Graham Linehan (40:44)

Well, I recorded it, you know, I luckily had the four had the, you know, gumption to press record on my favorite transcription app. And yeah, you know, I only wish the sound had been better and people had heard more of it, you know, but again, you know, when I said, I'll sue you all, it would have been very strange for me to sue the five cops who picked me up. But I was. I was sort of, you know, I was so angry I couldn't think straight, you know, but. But I am suing them now. I'm suing the police and for wrongful arrest. And I think something. Imprisonment. Wrongful imprisonment or something like that.

Megyn Kelly (41:25)

False imprisonment.

Graham Linehan (41:27)

Your false imprisonment. Excuse me. Yes. And yeah, this is just going to. They. The brilliant thing is they were trying to silence me. But I think what might have happened is that I'm going to make them very nervous about arresting people for this type of thing in the future.

Megyn Kelly (41:42)

They picked on the wrong mofo.

Graham Linehan (41:46)

Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully.

Megyn Kelly (41:48)

Well, because you showed up to your court hearing in one of, like I mentioned, Billboard, Chris Who's a hero. And he's constantly wearing these billboards. It's like. Like the sandwich boards. The one in the front and the one in the back, speaking up for women. And that's how you showed up to your court hearing. There's. Right. Is it your court hearing?

Graham Linehan (42:05)

No, no.

Megyn Kelly (42:05)

The front of it reads, there's no such thing as a transgender child on the front.

Graham Linehan (42:09)

Where was this Graham that was outside the magistrates court? That was a friend of mine who's. I think his name is Chris, who. Who actually has those boards and. Oh, no, it's not Chris. It couldn't be Chris. It's someone else, Steve, I think. And he does the same. He's been influenced by Billboard Chris to do the same thing. And just like Billboard Chris, he gets punched and water thrown over him and all sorts of things by people who think they're good people. You know, it's. He's very. He's very brave. Very brave. Well, but I. But I just grabbed this thing and put it on, you know.

Megyn Kelly (42:43)

No, but that's good. What do you mean? You don't even take credit for doing that. That's a brave thing to do. When you are being arrested and punished for speech, you double down on the exact same speech. So here's.

Graham Linehan (42:53)

It's very important to keep. It's very important to keep reminding people of the issues they keep trying to focus on. You know, my. My conduct, my behavior, which has been influenced by everything I've been through. So I always try and break through that and say, no, this is about kids being sterilized and mutilated. This is about men in women's prisons and sports. You know, this is an incredibly important issue and everyone should be paying attention to it.

Megyn Kelly (43:19)

My speech about the problem is not the problem. The problem is the problem. Address that. Deal with that. So here. The ultimate irony of this whole thing is that in the uk, they are letting child rapists go free. They're letting them out without bail, they're letting them out without prison time. They are letting J.K. rowling, who I mentioned a moment ago, get harassed with daily death and rape threats. Kick them in the balls is the most controversial thing you said. And you're a comedy writer. The J.K. rowling. Here's just a sampling. I mean, we pulled just a few just because we were kind of curious. I'm just going to read for some of the audience. What? Just a quick search brought up for J.K. rowling. Bitch, I'll kill you. Kill J.K. rowling. I'll kill J.K. rowling myself. I'm going to kill you. He's somebody says the JK stands for Just Kill youth. I'm going to euthanize your old ass. I wish you two very nice pipe bombs in your mailbox. I like the idea of bombs when only I don't mail them to people I despise. Take note. A pipe bomb would be too kind. Okay, forgive me, JK for reading those out loud, but the point is, nothing. Nothing. Where are those people not arrested? She's subjected to this daily, and those five cops don't show up to arrest those people. But you've got one benign tweet about if somebody goes into your daughter's space who's a male and won't get out, kick him in the balls and five cops are on you, Graham. So what's going on?

Graham Linehan (44:54)

Well, you know, I mean, those. Most of those accounts are anonymous. You know, there may even be far fewer of these. Of these people than we think. And they're just using multiple accounts. There's also a lot of kids who think it's their. Their civil rights cause of this generation. And kids speak in very intemperate ways and say disgusting things without realizing what the person at the other end of it is facing. But it's always had that kind of imbalance. You know, the people who are standing up against it tend to be. Tend to put their faces behind their opinions. Opinions. The people who are against it don't put their faces to their opinions. And also they never even share their opinions. We're constantly asking questions like, what does trans mean? You know, it used to mean transsexual, but now it seems to mean transsexual. Transvestite and everything in between. You know, they cannot answer these questions. They cannot engage in debate. And because they can't engage in debate, their only tools are smears, violence, you know, legal threats. They have nothing. They have nothing. This whole movement is based on nothing. It's a complete mass delusion. It's a social, social.

Megyn Kelly (46:07)

What's going to happen to you now? Right? What's going to happen to you? Are you on paper, are you facing prison time for this? If you get convicted, are you facing a trial?

Graham Linehan (46:17)

No, it's. It's. Well, you know, whatever, you know, if we get a bad result, we're going to appeal and we just go through it all again and again. The process is the punishment, you know.

Megyn Kelly (46:28)

But do you have to go through a criminal trial now?

Graham Linehan (46:31)

No, no. The last thing. We're still actually in the current Trial. I'm very nervous about saying too much about it, but we, but we've got one day left on it with the.

Megyn Kelly (46:40)

Trans activist who's coming after you for the phone.

Graham Linehan (46:43)

Yes. And I have to come back at the end of October for that, you know, which really annoys me because I don't, I don't. At the moment, I don't really like being in this country. You know, I feel like I'm a target and, you know, but I have to do it, so I'm gonna do it. And I'm, and I'm, I'm, I'm completely, you know, I have no doubts about anything I've done in this fight. You know, I have, you know, any, any. Like those three tweets they picked. Two of them were. Two of them weren't my best, you know, just.

Megyn Kelly (47:13)

You can do better.

Graham Linehan (47:14)

Exactly. Angry, but, you know, that's what you're mad about.

Megyn Kelly (47:17)

You weren't your most clever self.

Graham Linehan (47:19)

Exactly, exactly. And they, that's another thing they do is they cherry pick things that make you look bad, you know, but the, the tweet about punching a man in the balls if he comes into your, into a female only space. It is a violent and abusive act for a man to go into a woman's space. And any man, no matter how they identify, who wants to do that is highly suspect, you know, so I, I stand by everything I've said, I stand by everything I've done. It's always been as a result of. If I've ever done anything less than optimal, it's because I've been harassed to the point of insanity. Sometimes, you know, well, if you, if.

Megyn Kelly (47:58)

You can't, if you're not going to have a trial, what does that mean? Are these just misdemeanor charges that you can plead to or. Well, how does this wrap up? Not through a trial.

Graham Linehan (48:07)

It's. It's magistrates court. So there's one more. Does. One more day of where we'll be bringing in more witnesses and then.

Megyn Kelly (48:14)

No, no, not, not the act, not, not the trans activist case. The charges. Oh, you mean.

Graham Linehan (48:19)

Oh, the latest. I don't think. I mean, they would be insane to pursue it. I'd say they're going to drop the charges pretty quick. You know, they may, you know, I can't imagine they won't drop the charges, but if they do, it'll just be another chance for me to have a platform to try and tell people what's going on, to try and stop gender like, you know, Wes streeting over Here is talking about doing a kind of experiment or. I don't know how you test on. On. On whether puberty blockers are safe. We know they're not safe.

Charles C.W. Cooke (48:54)

We.

Graham Linehan (48:54)

All the data is in. And wpath, the organization that sets all these protocols, is a bunch of lunatics. I don't. I know you follow Redux, Megan. Yeah. They discovered that WPATH on their website were linking to a site called the Unique Archives. And the Unic Archives is like a repository of short. Short pornographic stories about. Sorry. Short pornographic stories about castration. Okay. Something like 4,000 stories or 40%. I can't remember what it was. Were tagged minor.

Megyn Kelly (49:34)

That is.

Graham Linehan (49:36)

So that means that the people who are setting up these protocols and these protocols are all over the world.

Megyn Kelly (49:42)

Yes. Including here.

Graham Linehan (49:43)

Also linking to a site that. That is for men who are aroused by the idea of children cutting their penises off. It's. It's. That's wild.

Megyn Kelly (49:55)

It's hard to actually understand unless you live it. Unless you're really neck deep in it and you see how sick this is. I only have a minute left, Graham. What. What's going to happen? Is the UK coming to its senses? I thought with the closing of Tavistock, with the Cass Report, it was coming to its senses. I now have greater doubts.

Graham Linehan (50:14)

Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, this. We always knew. I think it's. It's coming to an end. The trans movement is coming to an end. And we always knew that the last trashings would be the hardest on people, that they would be. They would become, you know, more vicious, they would overreach more. And so it's come to pass, you know, they're. They're just trying everything they can. I'm just going to keep on tweeting and keep on doing my, My, my. I. I'm sort of now a journalist and I. I have a substack that I keep up, and I'm just going to keep doing that until I'm sure it's not just dead, but buried and the earth has been salted.

Megyn Kelly (50:52)

You know, this is because they tried to shut you up when they arrested you, too, saying you couldn't tweet about the case that's now off. And you're allowed to talk about it. That's why you're here.

Graham Linehan (51:01)

Oh, but I got a very funny thing I can tell you, Megan, that's very short. Sorry. They told me. They told me not to contact the victims. That's my bail. The victims? There's no victims.

Megyn Kelly (51:14)

There's no victims.

Graham Linehan (51:16)

There's no one mentioned in the tweets. Yes, exactly.

Megyn Kelly (51:19)

Ridiculous. Graham, listen, we're going to continue watching it and all of us here in American media are very interested in this, in particular in the digital world. And the digital world is very powerful and we're watching and you know, I, I go on TV in the UK all the time and I'm certainly not going to shut up about this. They need to lay off of you. This is outrageous. We'll continue following it. Graham, thank you for your courage. Everybody support Graham by buying his book. It's called Tough How I Made and Lost a Career in Comedy. Unbelievable. Rich and Charlie of National Review react next. Who's really on your side when it comes to your health? Insurance companies, Bureaucrats, pharmacies that refuse valid prescriptions? Not a chance. Too many parts of our healthcare system are working against you. Blocking proven treatments, jacking up prices and making you jump through hoops. This is why I want to tell you about All Family Pharmacy, an independent pharmacy that's on your side fighting for your medical freedom, making it simple to get the treatments you trust without the insurance runaround. Just order online. A licensed doctor will review your request and your medication will ship straight to your door. It's fast, it's simple and it's secure. Right now, ivermectin and mebendazole are 25% off, starting at just $2 a capsule and you can save another 10% with code MEGAN10. Choose from over 200 medications, antibiotics, hydroxychloroquine, NAD plus antivirals and more, all with a prescription included. So go to allfamilypharmacy.com Megan and use the code Megan10 to save today. That's all Family Pharmacy where your health and your choice matters.

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Megyn Kelly (53:43)

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Megyn Kelly (53:58)

Offer applies to Orange Day. Pass restrictions apply. Joining me now, Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. cook of National Review. Find all of their work by becoming an NR plus subscriber today. Highly recommend becoming an NR plus subscriber. Love National Review. Guys, welcome back. I'm going to get to the biggest news story of the day, which is this, the murder of this poor Ukrainian refugee in Charlotte, North Carolina in one second. But I just got to ask you, I'll start with you, Charlie, because I know you posted a piece on NR for this about the Graham Linehan story. And actually before I do, I want to tell the audience that he told us during the break that he's lost how many thousands of subscribers? A couple hundred thousand subscribers or not subscribers, but followers on his ex account since he was arrested. These are woke leftist, I think UK residents who are abandoning Graham because they didn't realize that he was pro women's rights. And so go follow him. It's at Graham at G Linear L I N N E R at G Lynner L I N N E R so that we can make up the difference because he should not suffer in any way, shape or form as a result of doing this. Charlie, can you believe this nonsense?

Charles C.W. Cooke (55:18)

Yes and no. Can I just say something very quickly, Meghan, about Graham Linehan? Obviously we're talking here about the ordeal he just went through and the views that he's expressed and so on, but this sometimes gets lost. He is a genius. When I was a kid, he wrote this comedy series called Big Train that is, there's two seasons of. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. He wrote the I crowd. He wrote black books, obviously. He wrote Father Ted. This is a guy. It wasn't just that he threw away a career. He threw away the career to stand up for this. I mean, this is a. This is a man who is one of the funniest men in the history of British comedy. And I think maybe sometimes Americans, they wouldn't know that because the shows were often only on in England. But he is unbelievably talented. Someone who I grew up, you know, his name was on every great show that was on TV anyhow. Well, yes and no. In that yes, I can believe it because Britain has bad free speech laws and no first Amendment. And there have been an increasing number of examples of this sort of illiberalism over the years. I've written a lot about them since I moved to the United States. No, in that this one felt a little bit different to me. It was not the product of a copy, of making a mistake in the heat of the moment or misinterpreting the law or overreacting. Some of the worst excesses we've seen have been that this was premeditated. This is deliberate. You can't arrest someone at an airport by mistake. Five people showed up. They knew he was going to be there. They orchestrated this with IATA and the airline and the Heathrow Authority. You can't do this without a lot of planning. And in that respect, it felt to me Soviet. That was what you would expect out of the Soviet Union. If somebody flies in and then they're arrested for comments that they've made at a prior point. You know, historically, there are stupid arrests in Britain like that. When I was at Oxford, there was a guy who was arrested for telling a police officer his horse was gay. There's a guy who was arrested for singing Kung Fu Fighting when an Asian person within the audience. There have been examples of people on the street who have been arrested for preaching the Old Testament and Muslims who've been arrested for preaching from the Quran. And these generally involve a police officer who has an agenda or who makes a mistake. But that's not what happened here. This was had to come up from relatively high up in the Metropolitan Police Authority and has to have been discussed and debated and then executed. And that's where it felt to me unbelievable.

Megyn Kelly (57:57)

It is these most. I mean, I realize we're on here all the time, the three of us, and you guys at NR on your own, talking about the erosion of free speech in America, too often at too many turns. And yet, thank God, Rich, we have the First Amendment, because truly, like, this could not happen here with impunity. This would be. This would be such a national firestorm if they. If the cops actually arrested one of the three of us, let's say, for tweets like he posted totally anodyne, benign tweets.

Rich Lowry (58:26)

Yeah, totally. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank God for George Mason and the Bill of Rights and those founders who thought the structure of the Constitution was enough to protect our liberties were wrong. You needed to write it in there in black and white. And that's why we've seen backsliding. Certainly in the culture of free speech. We can't go there, not as long as we have a First Amendment, a Supreme Court that's committed to. To it. I don't know. This guy's work because I'm an American. But I was just struck what a self effacing, charming, thoughtful guy. And it's so dystopian, right? If George Orwell had written this in a novel 40 or 50 years ago, he said, no, that's not gonna happen. That can never happen here in England, in the cradle of liberty. All our liberties actually have their roots in English thought and practices. They're gonna do this. They're gonna arrest this guy like he's an arms dealer coming off the plane because of some tweets they don't like. And sure as he said, you know, punch him in the balls isn't. Maybe it's not his most charming or clever tweet, but he's positing a situation where this biological male is harassing people or ogling women in the dressing room. And it's not incitement. It's not anywhere close to incitement.

Megyn Kelly (59:33)

Not anywhere close.

Rich Lowry (59:35)

Yes. This is really disturbing. And good for him, handling it with such grace.

Megyn Kelly (59:40)

I know. Notwithstanding the enormous personal toll. I mean, everyone abandoned him, his cowardly colleagues. Nobody, nobody has stood by him. Which is why I'm very glad he's moved to the United States like Charlie. And I hope he eventually becomes an American citizen and enjoys the full fruit and flower of the First Amendment, or what's left of it after those of us who have been defending it continue our battles. Okay, let's. Let's keep going because there is a huge story out of North Carolina today. I want to bring the audience up to speed on the facts around it. So something terrible happened in Charlotte, North Carolina. Undoubtedly, most of the audience has heard about it now, because if you're listening to this show, you're. You have the right news sources. It's. It's something that happened a couple of weeks ago, but it just hit the press. You wouldn't know anything about it if you solely read or watch legacy media outlets. Okay? Nothing. The young woman's name is Irina Zarutska. And this young woman was 23 years old. She was born in Kiev, Ukraine, and she came to the United States in 2022 with her family, trying to seek a better life. They were. They were fleeing the war that Vladimir Putin unleashed on the Ukraine. And she was murdered here in Charlotte, North Carolina, on August 22nd on her way home from a job she had obtained at a local pizzeria. Now, this woman is absolutely stunning. She is. She looks like Marilyn Monroe to me. She could have been modeling. She could have been doing anything to make money. But she took a job at a local pizzeria and was showing up doing shift work, just trying to pay her bills and make her way in the United States quietly and without much fanfare. And then this past Friday, surveillance video was released showing her being stabbed to death by a man with a long criminal rap sheet and multiple encounters with the criminal justice system. That video was released to local news outlets. We're going to walk you through it and the timeline of how things unfolded. The Suspect's name is Decarlos Brown Jr. He's 34. Listening audience. We're showing the video here. He's in a red hoodie, sweatshirt. He's a black man with long black dreads. He was on the train first, sitting with no one in front of him, next to him, or behind him. He is not seen on the video having any interaction with. With any other riders, just sitting alone, but looking a little agitated at times. At the next stop, Zarutska boards the train. She is a white woman with blonde hair, and she's in her pizzeria uniform wearing a baseball cap. She sits in the row right in front of Brown. She has her phone with her and headphones in her ears. Just a side note, honestly, like in today's day and age, it's dangerous to have the headphones in and not know what's going on behind you. I'm sorry to say that I'm not blaming her in any way, of course, but just as a safety measure, just don't do that. You just don't know. You know, I'm sorry, but there's too much crime in America right now to do that. Keep your ears open so you know what's happening about you. Unfortunately, that's our reality. She's minding her own business. There's no interaction between the two of them whatsoever. They ride along for another four minutes with nothing happening. Then at 9:50pm Brown is seen reaching into his hoodie, pulling out a pocket knife, a small pocket knife. This is zoomed in video courtesy of the local CBS outlet. You're seeing him unfold it and you see him unfolding the knife, but no one notices a thing. Out of nowhere, truly, it seems like it's out of nowhere. Brown then stands up. He pulls his arm back as far as it can go to gain force. And from behind, with the young woman completely unaware of what was about to happen to her, he begins stabbing her, including three times, at least once directly into the neck. She did not stand a chance. She had no opportunity to defend herself. She clearly had no idea she was in danger at all. According to a local reporter who saw the full footage, Zyrutska immediately grabs her neck and looks as at the suspect as he walks away. The local news outlets which received the video from the transit Authority did not release to the public the moment of the attack or what happens in this section immediately after which, honestly, I don't understand. It's not their job to protect us from the facts. If you want to say, you know, we on the CBS Evening News aren't going to show you the exact moment of violence, that's an editorial call. But for all of the news outlets to not release it at all is strange to me. It's an incident that happened, and the specifics of it may matter. And we actually had our. Had a hard time at getting our hands on the full video. Now, it's unclear if riders around the victim even noticed or saw the knifing. Again, everyone's on their phones. No one's paying attention, and most of these people appear to have headphones on. I get it. You want to zone out. You don't want people talking to you. You kind of want to, like, do your own thing. But it's truly a safety measure to have your headphones off and be able to listen and hear what's going on around you and these public transit vehicles. The local CVS affiliate reports one passenger did react, others followed, but we don't see exactly how it unfolded. The reaction. We are shown Brown's actions after the attack. Now, the whole thing goes down in 30 seconds. So this has got to be not long after. He walks up to a train door. You see blood dripping onto the floor, apparently from the knife which is still on him. Some riders notice the blood, but it appears they really have no idea that an attack just happened. Brown then takes off the red hoodie. He appears to wrap the bloody knife up inside the hoodie. And Brown is then shown leaving the train. Per local CBS. He left the train again about 30 seconds after the knife attack. That's how quickly this whole thing went down. And seconds after Brown leaves the train, you do hear someone far off in the background scream, oh, my God. And scream the F word. Here's that moment. I mean, certainly sounds like somebody's found the victim. Someone did call law enforcement Spectrum News in Charlotte reporting transit security guards were on the train at the time of the attack, but in the car just ahead of Zaritska's when she was attacked. Brown was arrested short time later. You're not going to be surprised to hear the guys got 14 previous court cases in Mecklenburg county, which includes Charlotte. He was sent to prison in 2015 for robbery with a dangerous weapon, but was released a year early in 2020. This past January, he was arrested for misuse of the 911 system. And here's where things get interesting. During that incident, Brown told police he had man made material inside his body that was controlling him. Per the ABC local outlet in Charlotte, a magistrate judge allowed Brown to be released from jail without paying anything on the written promise that he would show up to his next court appearance. Then in July, another judge ordered a mental health evaluation, but again, he was allowed to be out on the streets. He clearly was not right in the head. And you had not one, but two judges recently, a month before the murder. Send him back out there. Go ahead. Right back out there. There are so many angles to this story. It's an absolute disgrace that the national media remains silent about this. Political news outlet Axios even has the gall to blame MAGA Republicans for covering it. They're upset about the numerous surveillance cameras in America now that happened to catch these incidents so that the MAGA Republicans can turn them into an issue. That's what they see this story about. I mean, guys, Rich and Charlie, remain with me. I. There's just no question in my mind. The story for the media is about many uncomfortable narratives that they'd rather not touch. Chief among them, a black man hacked to death a young, beautiful white blonde woman right on camera. And they don't want to touch it because that plays into a narrative with which they're very uncomfortable. Rich?

Rich Lowry (68:02)

Yeah, absolutely. So the media has had two modes here so far. First, ignore the story. Second, blame conservatives for paying attention to the story. And we just shouldn't look through these, at these crime stories through a racialized lens and only pay attention if it's a white perpetrator, alleged perpetrator, and a black victim, and ignore them if it's reverse. That's perverse, it's wrong, it's un American. And by the way, where was the Daniel Penney in this train? Right? New York City spent all these resources trying to nail that guy to the wall for doing the right thing and stopping potentially something like this happening. And the Charlotte mayor has been a disgrace in what she said. She's emphasized. She said, we can't arrest our way out of this and we need more mental health services. So this guy was clearly a schizophrenic and was allowed to walk the street and be homeless and menace people and then commit this act of homicide. The mental health service should have been arresting him, putting in jail, ascertaining he had mental health problems, then sending him to an institution where he's not released until he's either taking his meds and. Or it's ascertained he's okay and can be in the community again. You cannot let seriously mentally ill people just wander the streets. It's terrible for them, it's terrible for public order. And in these rare cases like this, it is a dire threat to other individuals. And I'll just add, the mother seems to have done the right thing. As many families like this with untreated schizophrenics, they don't know what to do. You know, their son or daughter is moldering away in the basement. They go to sleep at night hoping their son or daughter won't stab them in their beds. It's happened to Craig Deeds, by the way, a politician in Virginia several years ago. Untreated son with mental illness. So they have a choice, you know, do they just go along with it? Do they kick the person out of the house? That's what the mother did here. Do they make up a story to try to get the police, come and arrest them and hope they'll get no help? And it's because for the last 50 or 60 years, we decided to empty the institutions. And we don't have the right to say when someone's crazy. We don't have the right to tell them, you have to take your meds and we don't have the right to tell them, no, you're not sleeping on the streets, you're not wandering subway cars. We lost that, that social self confidence. And I despair. This, Megan, this, this is the same set of circumstances every single subway shover in New York City. It happens again and again and again. And I just despair of when we're actually get it and do something about it.

Megyn Kelly (70:29)

Yeah, no, I, I've said many times in the wake of these school shootings, and I'll say it again here, we need more facilities to which loving parents would willingly send their children to have them committed. Even an adult child like this guy was, we need some of the money we're shipping to God knows where or spending on God knows what here. Some of the savings maybe from DOGE could be redirected to build such a facility to which a loving parent would willingly send their child. Because even if we loosen the spigot on institutionalization, it's not going to help if it's basically a hardcore jail, that a loving Parent would say, well, I don't want him to go there. I know it's going to happen. He's going to wind up dead there. But if we can build a facility that is large part jail but also mental health institution that's not completely awful, we'll have more parents calling it and shipping it there. And I do think taxpayers would pay for this. I really do.

Rich Lowry (71:27)

That mother want him homeless on the street. No, it's because there's no alternative. So she kicked him out of the house. And apparently he had also assaulted his sister. So this is just a terrible situation. We know the solution. You know, you just need the will to do it.

Megyn Kelly (71:40)

It always follows that pattern. Charlie Rich mentions the mayor, the Charlotte mayor. And very interestingly, this woman's name is. It's basically vile. Her name is vile. It's Vi Lyles. That's her name, Vi Lyles. So I'm just going to call her vile because that's what she is. Based on this response she's given. She's a Democrat. She's been mayor since 2017. She last won reelection with 68% of the vote. And this is the statement she released right after the attack. She did not use the victim's name. Even though it was out there. It wasn't like a matter of privacy. The parents knew. Everybody knew she'd been killed. It happened on August 22nd. First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers go out to the young woman's family and friends. While I do not know the specifics of the man's medical record, what I have come to understand is that he long struggled. He has long struggled with mental health and appears to have suffered a crisis. This was the unfortunate and tragic outcome. Tragedy. Tragic incidents like these should force us to look at what we are doing across our community to address root causes. She sounds like Joe Biden trying to solve, quote, unquote, the immigration problem problem by addressing root causes, which is just a dodge for doing absolutely nothing at all. We will never arrest our way out issues such as homelessness and mental health. Well, we will never arrest our way out of issues such as homelessness and mental health. I want to be clear that I'm not villainizing those who struggle with their mental health. What's the matter with this woman? Vile. Vile. That's not the issue or those who are unhoused. Mental health disease is just that. A disease like any other that needs to be treated with the same compassion, diligence and commitment as cancer or heart disease. Our community must work to address the underlying issue of access to mental health care. Charlie, please help me. Please help. Vile.

Charles C.W. Cooke (73:37)

All right, well, let's start. So I agree with everything that you both said on mental health, But I would note that the cases that people bring up in opposition to the position that you both outlined usually involve somebody who's quite clearly crazy, but hasn't really done anything. This person had. We don't need to get even to the mental health question because this person had been arrested for being breaking and entering, for robbery with a firearm, for possession of a firearm, as a felon, for assault, for material threats. So that side question of who is crazy and who gets to decide doesn't need to be reached here. The person should have been charged and convicted of other violent crimes. The idea as a result that we can't arrest our way out of this is preposterous. That's precisely what we literally should have done in this case. That's what should have happened in North Carolina. We should have arrested our way out of this murder. That person should not have been free. Now, the mayor Vile, as she put it, reminds me, you know that scene in the Truman show where Truman's wife starts doing a commercial essentially, and he says, who are you talking to? What are you talking about? It's so incongruous to the, to the moment. I don't know why she's saying those things in response to this case. It's utterly incongruous. It almost feels like she's a hostage. Like she, as a result of political affiliations or sort of ideological brainwashing, is mandated to spew this garbage about not villainizing this person or understanding we need to look at root causes or wanting to spend more money on mental health or the unhoused, that is not what is important here. And if she or progressives or Democrats in general think that this view is held only by so called MAGA Republicans, they're out of their minds. There are two groups here. There are groups who are obsessed with this strange language, the language that you just echoed. And then there is everyone else. This is not left, right. This is not conservative, progressive, this is not Democrat, Republican, Northern, Southern, whatever. This is every single person. And then the weirdos. This is a pre political question. There is just not a person I know in the real world and I know a lot of people on the left who would respond to this in the way that this mayor did. It is just utterly bizarre. So, yes, we can arrest our way out of this happening. Yes, we can judge and villainize the person who did this. Yes, she ought to reflect, as she acknowledged, on what there is to learn here. But no, it is not that. We need to look at the root causes here. That is meaningless nonsense. We need to take very seriously people who cause chaos and crime in our cities. And look, as you know from I haven't been on your show a few times, I am procedurally a small l liberal on criminal justice questions. I think it is very important that at the investigation and arrest and trial stages that we follow the Constitution and the law to the letter. I love presumption of innocence and the whole suite of American. They're not innovations, but they were written down, which was an innovation. What I do not like is that bleeding over into doing nothing about crime. They're not inconsistent. You can have a perfectly constitutional response to serious, especially violent crime and proper sentencing and deal with these people and lock them away from the public. And what I worry about, Megan, aside from the obvious, which is that these things will keep happening, is that the public won't put up with this. So if you don't do your job as a government, which is what's happened here, and if you don't respond to this in the way that you should, which is what's happened here, Americans will start to lose interest in those constitutional niceties. They won't care about it because they're going to really take an interest in, in their family and their friends being safe on buses and in the streets or anywhere. So if we want to preserve all the stuff that I like, and I really think we should, we also have to get serious about sentencing. We also have to get serious about not releasing people once we've arrested them for violent crime without a charge, because otherwise people will take it into their own hands. And frankly, that's the, that's the logical response. So I'm totally outraged by this.

Megyn Kelly (78:37)

This. To hear this mayor's reaction suggests she just doesn't get it, Rich. I mean, and she is a loon. The New York Post this morning had a piece up writing about how there have been a bunch of GoFundMes for the defendant here, which GoFundMe thankfully is taking down. But here's, here's some of the justification by those who started the GoFundMes on why they're doing it. Quote, while what happened on the Blue Line was a tragedy, what we mustn't lose sight of is the fact that Decline Declaros Brown Jr. Was failed categorically by the judicial system and the mental health services of North Carolina, and as such is not entirely to Blame for what happened. One page claimed the caption underneath his picture reads, raise funds to stop the injustice against DeCarlos Brown Jr. The injustice against him. So that now they're having to knock these down like a whack a mole. And I'll give you one more. Okay. It's. It's not just absolute loons. It's some people who are respected on the left, like Nicole Hannah Jones, who tweets out the following or posts the following on Blue sky, which, by the way, is. Is really struggling. Um, the train stabbing in Charlotte was awful. It's no more awful than school children being shot down in a church. Journalists should not allow ourselves to become tools of propaganda. If Charlotte is a product of policies, then so was Minneapolis. Outrage should not drive our coverage. She went on. How we cover crime at a time when crime is being used as a pretext to occupy American cities with the US Military is critical. Do we report the news or drive it? So she doesn't want to focus on what happened in Charlotte because she thinks MAGA Republicans are going to use it as an excuse for Trump to drop the National Guard in Charlotte. And I have to say, if I'm. I'm a white woman with blonde hair, like the woman who was killed. If I were walking around Charlotte right now, I think I'd say that's fine with me. I wish my governor would ask for the help so that we could have additional safety and security forces here.

Rich Lowry (80:54)

Yeah, absolutely. That's clearly the. The politics. And look, she contradicts herself right at the beginning. If these things are equally awful and terrible, then we should focus on both. Right. But she doesn't want to because she fears focusing on one this crime in this light rail car will lead to results she doesn't like, namely federal forces who might deal with the problem. Right. So I think that the governor would need to call on Trump to send the National Guard there. But what you said, Megan, really struck me.

Megyn Kelly (81:25)

I did say that.

Rich Lowry (81:26)

Don't wear your headphones, your earbuds on a train. That's the mindset. And a lot of people are going to have that mindset. This just goes to. It doesn't matter whether, I don't know, crime is declining on this commuter terrain, it's down 10%, or whatever numbers they come up with. If you have to think about it, this is a serious public issue. No one should have to go through that thought process. I have to be hyper aware of everything that's happening on this train. And I can't even listen to something Else, because I might be stabbed in the neck. That's awful. It should be denounced by everyone. Everyone should want to do their utmost to stop it. And just final point, most of the people who are responsible for most of the crime are known to authorities. And it's a matter of public will whether you're going to deal with them or not. Gang bangers, none of them, all of a sudden one day just become a gang banger, right? They're guilty of all sorts of offenses and assaults and violent crimes before they start murdering people. Arrest them and lock them up, and you keep them in jail. And you know what? They can't harm anyone in the general population. Same here. Same case here with people who are deranged and have these criminal tendencies. It's a long, long, long rap sheet. And just everyone passed them along and said, oh, he's gonna get treatment or agree to do this or that. No one actually took the effort to say no. We know all we need to know. We have the rap sheet. Either staying in jail or you go into some other form of confinement. Again, it's just a matter of public will.

Megyn Kelly (82:54)

The media had something. Well, let me just make this point. And then. Yes, but the media has been absolutely disgusting in the way they've ignored the story. As of Sunday, there was zero coverage on the AP, PBS, New York Times, NPR, CNN, Washington Post, MSNBC. 00. I mean, I hardly need remind you of the coverage we had after George Floyd was. Was killed by Derek Chauvin. And let's face it, this is a pattern. You know, look what happened down in Texas with Carmelo Anthony, the black defendant who, who killed a young white boy who was in high school. Same attempted blackout. They did not want to discuss it because race is first and foremost. And yet if you switched it, if this guy, it's the South. So if this guy, this killer were a white guy who was wearing a MAGA hat, killing a black woman who had fled oppression from some other country, can you imagine? This would be George Floyd all over again. It would be. It would be everywhere. They won't cover it because it's black on white crime. In particular a beautiful young blonde white woman. That's the last person the left wants to feel sorry for.

Graham Linehan (84:06)

The.

Megyn Kelly (84:07)

Literally the last, even though she's from Ukraine, which normally would engender some sympathy from them. I mean, the irony, of course, the irony. This young woman fleeing her possible death in Ukraine, she was worried about getting murdered by Russians. Said she got murdered by an American loon on a train car who was Killed as a result of American policy, let's face it, directly as a result of American policy. So it's the race thing. But then on top of it, they do not want to talk about a homeless, mentally deranged man committing crime, Charles, because they have no solution, no real solution for that. So instead we get the Axios article from Mark Caputo talking about MAGA influencers drawing repeated attention to violent attacks after the rising number of surveillance cameras has made them more accessible, quote, has become a big accelerant in these cases.

Charles C.W. Cooke (85:01)

The cameras are creating the crime, are they, rather than capturing it. Nicole Hannah Jones, you quoted her. That makes me crazy. And it ties in to the Axios piece as well, because what she's trying to do there is intimate that there is a double standard in the way that so called MAGA Republicans or conservatives in general look at these two cases when actually the only double standard is on the left and in the mainstream press. So you have this guy in Charlotte who murders this lady. If conservatives had responded to it by saying now it's time to ban knives, then Nicole Hannah Jones would have a point. But they didn't. No one said that. No one said it was the knife that did it. Which is the same as the shooting in Minnesota where conservatives said, no, no, the problem was not the gun. What did conservatives think the problem was in Minnesota? And in fact in Charlotte, people who were mentally ill not being treated. Now, I don't think in Minnesota the perpetrator was on the police's radar in quite the way that the guy was in Charlotte. But had he been, there would have been no double standard in the reaction. The argument would have been exactly the same. Can we do something about this, please? Not can we take away people's weapons, not can we take away people's constitutional rights, but the problem is the person who did it and the authorities unwillingness or refusal or inability to deal with that. So actually the only double standard left is that in one case we got wall to wall coverage. Well, until the perpetrator in Minnesota turned out to be someone the press wished it had not been.

Megyn Kelly (86:41)

Exactly.

Charles C.W. Cooke (86:42)

And in the other case it was covered up completely. It's not conservatives who have done anything here other than said, could we please talk about this crime, could we please talk about the victim as if she matters and not the guy who did it. So that is so cheap. It is actually. It's just so offensive to have it pinned on the people who noticed that this happened. And again, blaming cameras. I mean, it's good that we have Cameras that are catching crimes. If the implication is that prior to the cameras, lots more crimes. Crimes happen on public transport around the country. But we didn't know about it then, God bless the cameras because we finally at least have a way of working out how much crime is happening.

Megyn Kelly (87:27)

It's weird, Rich. I don't remember them lamenting like police body cams after George Floyd was dead. I don't remember them saying, the problem is we caught it on camera. Not, you know, trust us, crime is way down in Minneapolis. You're just being misled by those damn cameras that the cops have happen to be wearing. But this Mark Caputo, he didn't write that article then. Now he writes about how the video is easily shared or leaked and can instantly pollinate across social media. Again, had no problem when that happened after George Floyd. And going on as follows. Just because he wanted to make it into a MAGA issue as opposed to what it is, all the issues we've been discussing.

Rich Lowry (88:02)

Yeah, I think it's a public service that this video is out, right? I mean, video is incredibly powerful. We knew about the story, the story had been reported that it happened, but it doesn't hit anyone the same way as actually seeing what occurred in real time on the video. I mean, it's like a horror movie, right? It's unfathomable. So I don't know why we'd want to suppress the video. Maybe you don't show the most gruesome parts, but I think all of it should be available for news outlets to make that decision. And just one last thing on social services and root causes on this, Megan. People who say that must have never known anyone who has a serious mental illness. Because this guy in Charlotte, you could have given a free $10,000 a month luxury apartment in downtown Charlotte with a high rise on the 19th floor. And he wouldn't have lived there. Right. He would have thought it was a plot and he was being controlled by radio waves. And he would have wandered the streets and gone on the trains and harassed people and committed crime because he's out of his mind. He needs to be told what to do until he gets help. So it's so weird that progressives have such a tendency to mandate things and be coercive. Except for in two areas, right? Locking up criminals and making sure that mentally ill people aren't unhoused. And that's the other thing. They let them walk the streets and then they become part of this privileged group. The unhoused are supposedly victims that you can't do Anything about it's just insane.

Megyn Kelly (89:29)

Well, here's, here's the capper, okay? Because he did, he made that bizarre 911 call in over the summer and it was obvious that this was a lunatic, right? I mean I've got man made material inside my body that's controlling me as I eat, walk and talk. According to an affidavit that was filed in support of charges. And so in July of 2025, after that charge was brought against him, his, his lawyer raised the question of his mental capacity to stand trial. And there was a court ordered forensic evaluation pending. At the time of the incident. His mother said he's got schizophrenia and that she tried to get him help. The local ABC affiliate reports that the judge, Roy Wiggins, ordered a mental health evaluation but allowed Brown to be out on the streets while it was conducted in the pendency of that evaluation and the trial. Notwithstanding his long criminal history, the 14 arrests, the bizarre phone call he sent him back out to go murder that girl. I'm sorry, that's what he did. And now, and now that's the same judge who has this case, the first degree murder case that's just been brought against decarlos Brown. And guess what? He denied bond. He denied bond after the victim's family pleaded for, for him to remain in jail. But that is unbelievable. And right now Brown's lawyer saying he's going to file a motion for a mental health evaluation of his competency to see if he can stand trial because of his long history of mental health issues. They're considering an insanity defense. I mean that is just Chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. He's in front of this same judge for mental health issues. The judge says, oh, we'll evaluate, but go, go out, out and do whatever you want to do while we evaluate. What if we find you're an insane lunatic who's not safe to be out there? Oh, well, I guess that's Irina's problem. And now that he's committed first degree murder, snuffing out this 22 year old life with everything in front of her, now we're gonna hold you without bond because you know, geez, you seem like a danger. And of course the final cherry on top, the defense will be insanity. He's not competent to stand trial. It's like, no wonder people are getting murdered. One final point before we take a quick break. So as you guys may know, I had some serious security problems when I was relatively new into television. And we always have to worry about it. But like There were some active issues early on. And the guards who were with me did tell me, number one, never have those headphones on. You know, back then it was not yet air pods, but never have those headphones out. When you're, when you're on public transportation or walking down the sidewalk, you need your ears. Like you'll hear, you'll hear the danger before you'll see the danger in a lot of cases. And secondly, they said don't, don't walk looking at your phone. Do not walk down the sidewalk or to your car in a parking garage looking at your phone because you just never know. These are modern day distractions that could potentially prove unsafe. And I agree with you, Rich. It's unfortunate that we have to think like that. But young women in particular are very used to being the subjects of men's anger and violence. They, they just are, you know, like we walk down the street at night in D.C. in a way that you guys, you know, not in all circumstances would walk down. And so we're used to having to take these precautions. I, part of me feels like this poor girl was from Ukraine. I don't know, maybe she trusted too much in the United States of America. I don't think we deserved her trust.

Rich Lowry (92:50)

I'm very sorry for her working a pizza place. Right? That kind of first rung up in, you know, making a career in America, doing all the right, right things.

Megyn Kelly (92:59)

And yeah, not, not from what we know, like leeching off the system, you know, coming here, getting a job, humbling herself. I mean, look at her beautiful face. Truly, she could have been on the COVID of a thousand magazines. She's spectacular looking. But there she is in a pizza parlor working hard. The, the, the pizza parlor put out a beautiful statement on her behalf saying she was the nicest person. She was so kind to everybody. They have a candle burning there in her memory. And instead, this cretin who murdered her is the one whose name we're going to remember. Guys, stand by. Quick break. Back with Rich and Charlie after this. Let's be honest. America can still be a dangerous place and you cannot afford to wait for help. Sure, you could use a firearm, but in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force, it can have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9% of all altercations do not require lethal force. And this is exactly why many are turning to Burna. It's why Burna was invented. Byrna's proudly American hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana. These are less lethal self defense launchers. And they're trusted by hundreds of government agencies, law enforcement departments and private security companies. Over 600,000 burner pistols have been sold, most to private citizens who refuse to be victims. Burner launchers fire rock hard kinetic rounds and also powerful tear gas and pepper projectiles capable of stopping a threat from up to 60ft away. So they got one sort of launcher that hurts people but doesn't kill them, and one that like incapacitates them with the gases. There are no background checks required for this, no waiting periods and Burna can ship straight to your door. Take responsibility for your safety, protect your future. Visit Burna.com right now or your local Sportsman's Warehouse by r n a.com or your local Sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend When Inflation Jumps when you hear the national Debt is over $37 trillion, do you ever think maybe now would be a good time to buy some gold? Well, you'd be right. Whether as a hedge against inflation, peace of mind during global instability, or just for sensible diversification, Birch Gold Group believes every American should own physical gold and so they created something special until September 30th. If you're a first time gold buyer, Birch Gold is offering a rebate of up to $10,000 in free metals on qualifying purchases. To claim eligibility and start the process, request an info kit right now just text MK to 989-898 plus Birch Gold can help you roll an existing IRA or 401K into an IRA in gold and you're still eligible for a rebate in free metals up to 10 grand. So make right now your first time to buy gold and take advantage of a rebate up to $10,000 when you buy before September 30th. Text MK to the number 989898 to claim your eligibility and get your free info kit. Did you know that apparently over a third of Americans have below average credit and that drivers with poor credit can pay over 100% more for their auto insurance? Let me tell you about kickoff. You can sign up in minutes, no credit check. And it can be an easy way to build credit fast with plans Starting at just $5 a month, no hidden fees, zero interest. Kickoff makes it simple. Get started for just one buck. Start building credit with Kickoff today and you can get your first month for as little as one tiny little dollar that's 80% off the normal price. When you go to getkickoff.com mk today, that's kickoff without the C. Getkickoff.com mk k I k o f f getkickoff.com must sign up via getkickoff.com mk to activate offer applies to new kickoff customers first month only. Subject to approval Offer subject to change Average first year credit score impact of 84 points Vantage score 3.0 between January 2023 and January 2024 for kickoff credit account users who started with a score below 600, who paid on time and had no delinquencies or collections added to their credit profile during the period. Late payments may negatively impact your credit score. Individual results may vary.

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Megyn Kelly (97:40)

I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

Rich Lowry (98:25)

Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and.

Graham Linehan (98:29)

Get three months free.

Megyn Kelly (98:31)

That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free.

Graham Linehan (98:36)

Offer details apply.

Megyn Kelly (98:43)

You remember when I went to space with my fellow astronauts Sarah and Maureen Callahan and we had mugs made? I'm drinking out of one right now. It reads, I'm inspirational. That's a quote of Gayle King, who was busy telling us how inspirational she was after her space flight. That lasted two a few seconds and I don't know. Can you still get these on the MK website? You might be able to still get these. Go check them out. I give them out as party favors. I have hats. They're super fun. You'll laugh. You know, I find them very good at like the mugs and the hats. You know, when you want to bring a hostess gift, you don't want to bring like a damn bottle of wine that nobody really wants. That's bring that, that's fun conversation piece. Okay, back with me now, Rich Lowry and Charles Cook of National Review, who are going to be joining me in Atlanta in November on the Megyn Kelly Live tour. We're taking the show on the road. Go find out more now@megankelley.com and learn how you can get tickets if you want to see these two guys in Atlanta. And you should go get tickets now because I have a feeling those will sell out fast. Guys, thanks for, first of all, for doing that. I know it's always a hassle. We're huge airplane. You got to travel. But I really appreciate it.

Rich Lowry (99:52)

Yeah, we're huge in Atlanta. So we're doing you a big favor.

Megyn Kelly (99:54)

Megan. Well, that's like kind of in Charlie's backyard, but that's a, that's a hike for you. Rich.

Charles C.W. Cooke (100:00)

I appreciate Atlanta. Megan. Either when I the second I show up there, people say to me, Charles Cook, and I say, oh, you're on the Getting swarmed. Exactly.

Megyn Kelly (100:09)

Got a lot of fans down there. Trust me, I see the numbers. We have to end it. We've had like, a serious show, but we have to end it on baseball because this happens to be, I think, one of the greatest loves of our friend Rich Lowry here. Charlie, I hear him talk about it all the time. He does, like, preseason openers. He watches, like, the practices. He watches the games before anybody's there. Like, the man loves baseball. Baseball controversy in the news. I'm becoming a regular sports commentator. Between the US Open and the NFL and now this. And everybody must have seen this online over the weekend. It was at a Philadelphia Eagles game against the Marlins. Sorry, Eagles were the other day. They also played in my defense. This is the Phillies. That's the baseball team. And the Phillies hit a home run and the ball went into the stands and the ball landed kind of in front of this group of people, but there was a scrum to grab it. And the guy in the red shirt, this dad ran over. He got it. He goes back and gives it to his kid. An angry Karen lady comes over, starts yelling at him. And you can hear her yelling here, let's, let's play this out.

Graham Linehan (101:23)

That was hard.

Megyn Kelly (101:27)

Me bye.

Graham Linehan (101:37)

I finally heard that.

Megyn Kelly (101:40)

And he gave it back. He took it out of his son's m and gave it to the to you took it from me, lady. So your verdict on who's right and who's wrong here, Rich, is what?

Rich Lowry (101:51)

Oh, she's clearly in the wrong. So the basic rule is foul ball, home run, adults involved. It's a scrum, right? And it's just a fight to the finish until someone secures the ball and holds it up, then it's their ball. But the other rules are if there's a kid involved in the scrum and you're aware of it as adult, you back off because you want the kid to get it. And if you catch a ball and it's not like Aaron Judge's 500th career home run or something, sell for $500,000, you take the photo with it, you're happy, then you toss it to the nearest kid, thinking because a ball landed in your vicinity, it's yours. And then going and confronting a father who got it for his kid is so outlandish. This just isn't done. I haven't ever seen anything like this before. Now, look, I don't think her life should be ruined over it. I don't like the sleuthing to try to identify her and get fired from a job or whatever. No one's found her yet. She's probably walking around Philadelphia and Mets paraphernalia right now to. To maintain her deep cover. But her. Her conduct was terrible and inexcusable.

Megyn Kelly (102:56)

All right, what do we think, Charlie, of this incident? And what do we think? Some. Some are giving the dad a hard time for giving the ball back. For taking the ball from the sun and giving it to the angry Karen.

Charles C.W. Cooke (103:09)

Yeah. It's just so unusual, isn't it, to find an intemperate sports fan from Philadelphia the first time this has ever happened.

Megyn Kelly (103:17)

Exactly.

Charles C.W. Cooke (103:17)

I don't know. I'm in two minds. I've read both sides of this. On the one hand, I do agree that it's a good opportunity to teach a lesson about how people can be unreasonable. And he realized she was going to make the rest of his and his son's evening a nightmare. And he did get rewarded for it. Ultimately, I think he went and he got assigned back because the team felt bad for him. On the other hand, knowing myself, I think I may have very calmly explained that there was no way in hell she was getting that baseball back from my son because my son would have been so happy to have it. And once it had been handed over to him, I think I would probably have refused. So I don't like the condemnations of this guy in either direction. It's difficult to know what you do in that scenario, but me personally, knowing how obstinate I am, I think I would have told her very politely to take a hike.

Megyn Kelly (104:10)

Yeah, maybe we would have heard like bollocks or something like that. Charlie in the stands, I think I know condemnation for the dad. You're right, that's an awkward situation. But I do think it's like a moment to ask yourself, what should I do in that situation? And I don't think you have the ball back. I think you say, lady, take a hike. It was a scrum. Every man or woman for themselves. And now my kids got it. Go deal now, Rich. Another interesting angle is some people online were saying back when I was a kid, if you didn't get the ball because someone acted like a Karen, that was the end of it. And you learned that life has disappointments and shitty people and move on. Now we often see this like they're gonna have a parade in the child's honor. He's gonna get a bat, he's gonna go. He's gonna have a Philly, spend the summer with him teaching him baseball. You know, like, what do you make of the team? Making good, kind of in an over the top way.

Rich Lowry (105:03)

Yeah, I don't mind that so much. I think it's great that Harrison Bader hit the home run, signed the bat for him. All that's appropriate. I don't know about further things in the kids favor, but this really, it shouldn't be a national story. I mean, it's just interesting and fun. But this is the kind of thing before the era of cell phones it would have happened and people in that section would have known about it or maybe, you know, maybe the TV broadcast picks up on it. But it's a bad thing that happened. Unfortunate. Everyone moves on. But now it's a national obsession and again, she needs to hide her identity because she really could get fired or personally destroyed over this. She may be a terrible person for all I know, or it may just have been a bad moment. But I think it's better if everyone just kind of moves on and says, go Yankees.

Megyn Kelly (105:45)

I like. And says go Yankees. I like the rules. Like when there's a kid involved, you lose, you cede to the kid. Period. That should be ingrained in everybody. But some Karens need to be reminded. Guys, great to see you. What a great hour. Thanks for being here.

Charles C.W. Cooke (105:58)

Thank you, thank you.

Graham Linehan (105:59)

Talk soon.

Megyn Kelly (106:00)

Go subscribe to NR before they leave your head and you can read all their commentary for a very reasonable price tomorrow. Andrew Clavin, thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.

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Charles C.W. Cooke (107:17)

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Megyn Kelly (107:18)

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