← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Katie Porter MELTDOWN, and Obama's Marriage Tension, with Sohrab Ahmari and Sean Davis, Plus Justice Gorsuch on America's 250th Birthday | Ep. 1311
01:40:52
Megyn Kelly starts the show by discussing Katie Porter melting down on the California governor debate stage, her awkward attempt at addressing her viral “get out of my shot” moment, Porter sparring with other candidates like Tom Steyer and Chad Bianco, and more. Then Sohrab Ahmari, U.S. editor at Unherd, and Sean Davis, co-founder of The Federalist, join to discuss California Democrats supporting illegals over Americans on the governor debate stage, openly admitting immigrants are the only way California is growing, President Barack Obama admitting Michelle’s thoughts on Trump and politics have hurt his marriage, how little Obama actually did during his presidency, Obama having the nerve to complain about politicizing criminal justice, the latest potential deal with Iran, and more. Then Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch, author "Heroes of 1776," joins to discuss what matters most about America’s founding 250 years ago, the need to remember our history so we can appreciate America ...
Loading summary
Transcript186 lines
- [00:01]
Megyn Kelly
Wasn't that delicious? So good.
- [00:02]
Neil Gorsuch
Your bill, ladies.
- [00:04]
Megyn Kelly
I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I assisted first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly.
- [00:12]
Saurabh Amari
People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash
- [00:14]
Megyn Kelly
credit card prefer to pay because they
- [00:15]
Sean Davis
earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.
- [00:18]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No. The Wells Fargo ActiveCash Credit Card.
- [00:25]
Sean Davis
Visit wells fargo.comactivecash Terms apply.
- [00:31]
Megyn Kelly
Strayer University, we help students like you go from will I to why not? For over 130 years, we've been innovating higher education to make it more affordable, accessible and attainable so you can reach your goals. Go from thinking can I? To Yes, I can. And keep striving. Visit Strayer. Edu to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and its many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. There's new reporting on why Blake Lively showed up to the Met Gala alone just hours after settling her lawsuit with Justin Baldoni for reportedly $0. It was a complete surrender. We'll get into what insiders to the couple are saying now about Ryan Reynolds skipping that event. Plus, Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch will be here next hour. I've been doing a deep dive on him in preparation for this and there are so many fun facts about Justice Gorsuch that you did not know about and his education. And do you know he was like an open conservative at Harvard Law School? And imagine that. I mean, truly like. And obviously he's lived those principles. So what does he think about conservatives in school today? Should they play along? Should they go along with the liberal professor's dogma in order to get the a? You know, those who want to get into Harvard Law School, who better to ask than this guy? He's a fascinating man and he's got a new book out, too, which I think you're going to love in advance of our 250th birthday. So stay tuned for that second hour. But we start today with all the wild moments from last night's California gubernatorial debate. Katie Porter is unhinged. She is emotionally unregulated. And I am here for it. She, she's our favorite. We, technically, we do want Steve Hilton to win, but if we cannot have Steve, we definitely want it to be Katie because If it's not Steve, let's face it, we'll be stuck with one of these Dems. Might as well be somebody who entertains us. From Porter Blur blurting out Donald Trump sucks to very clearly trying to hold back tears. What was it about? Was it about homeless people? Was it about drug addicted Californians? Was it about Californians who have been murdered by illegals? No, it's about herself. It was about her. Her controversy over being emotionally unregulated and angry all the time. That's what broke her. Wait till you see this. She like. You could hear the voice crackling. It was definitely a debate to remember. Mail in voting is already underway in this contest for who's gonna run California in the gubernatorial House. Gavin Newsom. Time term limited. And he's got to go. He may be all of our problems soon. And somebody's got to take over the role. The primary is June 2, and the top two candidates from this crowded field will go on to compete against each other in the general election. There are two very strong Republicans in the race. I mean, it's just a fantasy that both of them could be the top two and that for sure, that would lead to a Republican running California. But it's a fun fantasy. Seven candidates, seven were on stage last night. According to the RCP average of all polls. Republican Steve Hilton is in first place, as he has been from the beginning. He's followed by billionaire Tom Stier, a Dem, Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco, a Republican who is in third. In fourth place, former State Attorney General and former HHS Secretary to Joe Biden, Xavier Becerra. In fifth, former U.S. representative Katie Porter. Keep an open mind, people. And then there's San Jose Mayor Matt Maha, former LA Mayor Antonio Villarega. Gosa Villarregosa also made the debate stage last night, but he's only pulling at 4%, so we don't really care about him. The top two vote getters, regardless of party, as I said, will advance to the primary. Will. Well, in the primary, to the general, and before the evening even began yesterday, Katie Porter was already making headlines. Okay, so when did the, when did all the stuff come out about her burning her husband with the mashed potatoes? It was like a year ago, right? Maybe my team can check me. When we, we came to realize that she was a very, very angry lady and the videos surfaced of her. Get the out of my shot. And we started to really come to understand who she was. I mean, this happened with the staff member back in July of 2021, but I got to figure out when exactly it broke again. And it all, you know, came to our unnoticed. Remember, it was during the contest of this race because she sat down with that one reporter and she's like, I'm calling it, I'm calling it. I'm not going to sit here. And for seven follow ups. And then that brought back up the July 2021 video of her berating a staffer. Um, and so my point is simply, it's been all this time since the staff member thing happened, since the story broke, since she berated that reporter all this time, and she's finally come around to the obvious fact that the only winning move was to make fun of herself. Okay, she's finally gotten that. But I regret to inform you, sister Katie, it's too late now. It just looks nakedly political because you put it in an ad too. Whereas you should have done it in the moment when the controversy was happening. You should have gone on snl, this show, anywhere, and mocked yourself. I mean, I guess you could make the argument it's never too late. You know, better late than never. But I have to be honest, I'm not feeling that. Maybe it's the execution. Okay, first, before we get to this, the, the moment on tape that she is about to make fun of herself for this is the original sin, July 2021, that we're going to lose more
- [06:43]
Katie Porter
than half a million Californians dying prematurely to air pollution and other problems. And the state could lose. Get out of my fucking shot.
- [06:53]
Megyn Kelly
I wanted to tell you that that's actually incorrect. It's not that it's electric vehicles, it's that if we don't meet the commitments under the Paris Climate Accord.
- [07:01]
Katie Porter
Okay, it does. Okay. You also were in my shop before that. Stay out of my shot. Okay? I'm going to start again with electric vehicles. Saving us money. Perfect. Okay.
- [07:18]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I've said before I would not be happy if one of my team members got in my live shot and then tried to correct something I had said. It wasn't live, I think was the point. And this staffer thought she was saving Katie Porter from saying something dumb that was wrong in a pre taped exchange. And clearly Porter realized she could redo it, which she then did. But that moment has haunted her because dovetails with all the other things that we've heard about her. You know, the Daily Mail did great reporting, by the way. This all was discussed and came out in October of 2025. They've done great reporting on, you know. Yeah. The fact that she was apparently abusive to her ex husband. He accused her of dumping scalding mashed potatoes over his head. She can't control her her emotions, my friends. So in any event, finally we get around to whatever that is. October to now and what, eight months. And she's finally decided through her team that as she runs for the governor's position, the best way to deal with that is to mock it. You tell me whether she does that effectively in this ad.
- [08:27]
Katie Porter
I'm Katie Porter and I'm not like most people who run for governor. I actually get what you're going through. A single mom of three kids, I know what it's like to push the shopping cart. My Minivan has almost 200,000 miles. I have a grown kid who may soon be living on my couch. To give Californians what they need, it's going to take standing up to Donald Trump calling out greedy corporations and stepping on some toes along the way. Now could you guys please get out of my shot?
- [08:58]
Megyn Kelly
Hahaha. Cue the hearty laughter by the people holding signs behind her. Okay. It's amazing that like just being a normal person, like she wants props for going to the grocery store. How is this a job qualifier? Don't you all go, I go to the grocery store. I probably have more money than Katie Porter. I go. Most normal people go to the grocery store. And you're not special that you have a minivan either. I mean, ours is a Chevy Suburban, but it's a large vehicle to get around our kids. A lot of people have large vehicles to get around their children. She wants you to know it has 200,000 miles on it. Okay. I mean, great. That's good. I'm not sure it makes you you qualified to be governor of California, but she's trying to draw a distinction between herself and like Tom Steyer, who, she's probably right, doesn't go to the grocery store and probably doesn't have that great a figure on, you know, how much things cost. Right. Like I get it. So okay, that's one way in. But the problem for Katie Porter is one of the reasons she's a single mom with three kids is because again, according to the ex husband, she threw those scalding hot potatoes at him and actually really burned him. This is what he alleged. Quote, he, he said that she went berserk. This is not yet a quote. He said she went berserk over the way he was preparing the mashed potatoes. I mean, that's the problem. Like if you're not going to do them right, sir. And she snapped, according to him, quote, can't you read the fucking instructions? He then said that Porter raised, quote, a ceramic bowl of steaming hot potatoes and dumped it on my head, burning my scalp. I mean, that is extreme. Think of the number of times you've been really angry in your life. I mean, of course everyone's been there. Especially, like, people you're dating or whatever, your spouse. They can drive you to your last nerve. If you have a deep disagreement over something, it can happen. Have you ever considered burning them like this? She's not a well person. Okay. All right. Anyway, back to last night. Porter was asked about her new, clever ad. And watch. Watch where she becomes emotional. It's again, it's not about anybody else who's suffering. It's about poor Katie.
- [11:25]
Katie Porter
Californians can decide for themselves about my temperament based on what they've seen here tonight. And if these bullies, these boys bu bullying and bickering hasn't been enough to raise questions about their temperament, I would really challenge that. I have taken responsibility at this point hundreds of times. And that's appropriate because I made a bad decision and I treated someone badly. I apologized five years ago for it, and we worked together for four more years. What I haven't heard is the people on this stage who have made other bad decisions and other mistakes and other failures of leadership. Not one of them, not one of these men have said in this entire campaign, I've made a mistake. And what that ad is about, Caitlin, is about showing that I can laugh at myself. I can hold myself to account, and I have the fitness, the temperament, and the best ideas to be governed.
- [12:27]
Megyn Kelly
Okay? It doesn't work when you're explicitly telling us what. What the marketing managers wanted to convey. What that shows you is that I can laugh at myself, okay? It shows my sense of humor. No, no, no. You had to go with, like, what the message overall was supposed to be. It shows that I understand what real Californians are going through in a way the billionaire class up here does not. That would have been your answer, sister, but you can't do it because you're so wrapped up in your own head. All right, so she went from, you know, mocking the moment where she berated the staffer. You know, Right. Gently mocking herself in the ad, to nearly crying about it. Crying for herself, not for the staffer, to also claiming sexism, like, in a matter of hours. I like.
- [13:17]
Sean Davis
Hold on.
- [13:18]
Megyn Kelly
Buckle up. This is why she has to win. Please, Californians, give us this gift you gave us, Kamala Harris, for which we're very grateful. Now you gave us Katie Porter, but, you know, if you don't vote for her, you know, vote for Steve Hilton. But like if you can't bring yourself to. Or Chad Bianco, he seems good too. Please give us Katie Porter. Now to show what a softy at heart she really is, Porter talked about some of the freebies that she would very much like to offer as governor. Like, of course, health care for illegals.
- [13:49]
Sean Davis
So, Congresswoman Porter, your thoughts on the idea of funding health care for undocumented immigrants statewide?
- [13:56]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, yes.
- [13:58]
Sean Davis
And that's, by the way, what I
- [14:00]
Katie Porter
think Californians deserve as answers to these questions. Alex.
- [14:04]
Sean Davis
And for critics who say that we can't afford it, what do you say to that?
- [14:06]
Katie Porter
We can't afford to have people who are sick who are making the rest of us sick when any shouldn't be here, have care.
- [14:14]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, you heard that Republican Chad Bianco saying, yeah, they shouldn't be here. He's like, get them out. So is Steve Hilton, but she's like, no, keep them here and pay for all their expenses so that they don't get us sick. And you know what I do appreciate though, I have to say once again, like, I, I got a lot of mixed feelings about this babe. She's like, you know, do you favor health care for illegals? Yes, thank you. I mean, she says it explicitly, God bless her. You know, it's like I, I do have more respect for that than the pussy footed.
- [14:44]
Neil Gorsuch
Like, well, what I think is.
- [14:45]
Megyn Kelly
And then like a long, meandering non answer by somebody who also feels yes, right. At one point, the same pair, Bianco and Porter, mix it up on stage. Now this was the exchange of the night. She was really big on like the sexism card. It was like this undercurrent. You know, she was going to try to say I am the woman. This is the subliminal. In her next debate, she's going to be like, the messaging of my last debate was that I was the woman and I was next to male sexist. It works better if you don't put it totally on the nose, your strategy. But in any event, so that was the underlying current. I'm the woman. These are bully men. You are holding me to a higher standard than you're holding them to. They're doing the bullying and nasty behaviors right here on this stage for which I've been called out for years for one video, by the way. It was way more than one years ago. So that's not fair. And it's A double standard that was sort of the. And she also was trying to telegraph, you know, like, I can handle this. I can handle the scrutiny, and I just want it to be even amongst everybody. So can Katie Porter actually control herself? Right. We saw her already break down. She couldn't. She couldn't get through that answer about herself and her controversy without clearly tearing up with the voice shaking. And here you're about to see her snap. This Bianco kind of kept needling her a little, and it worked. Watch.
- [16:21]
Katie Porter
I can't believe that on a stage with 30 minutes of interrupting and bickering and name calling and shouting and disrespect for everyone up here who's stepping into public service that anyone wants to talk about my temperament.
- [16:41]
Saurabh Amari
You were actually interrupting them, too.
- [16:43]
Megyn Kelly
I don't know why you want to act like you weren't.
- [16:45]
Katie Porter
Oh, cowboy.
- [16:46]
Megyn Kelly
Steven, I. Oh, cowboy up. Okay, which is it? We need to. We need to object when they interrupt us, or if you raise the fact that someone's interrupted you, you need to cowboy up. Pick a lane, my dear, because your messaging there is not exactly consistent. Maybe you need to cowboy up because you're the one who continues to raise the. Their behavior and their interruptions on this stage. Which is it? Like, you can complain about it or you can't? Because all. All Chad Bianco was trying to say was you've been interrupting, too, which really isn't that big a slight. You know what I mean? Like, get it together. Pick a lane. That's all. Now, she's not dumb, this gal. She's, you know, unhinged, but she's not dumb. When all else fails, as a Democrat, you know what to do. Attack Donald Trump. Congressman Porter, what's your view? What's your response?
- [17:43]
Katie Porter
Donald Trump sucks. And I don't think that anyone who doesn't see that he is targeting and hurting Californians and won't stand up for everybody who is counting on them to be their leader and keep them safe has no business being governor.
- [17:58]
Megyn Kelly
Congresswoman Porter, thank you. There you go, baby. You nailed it. Trump sucks. That's really all you have to say to get elected in California? I mean, like, that really? Forget all the nonsense about your. Your minivan and your grocery cart and your cowboy up and you're crying over your car. Just keep saying that. That's what they want to hear. Those are the sweet nothings that will cause them to lift up the dress. It's Donald Trump sucks. That's all you need. Those are the magic words. Remember, in family Man. One of my favorite movies. Nicholas Cage is pretending to be. Well, he's. He gets put into another version of his own life and he's back with Te Leone and he's married to this woman, but it's an alternate life, so he doesn't have any memories of what it's like to be married to this woman, Tea Leone. It's a great movie. If you haven't seen it. It's kind of a Christmas special. And he wants eventually to like go to bed with her. She is his wife. She thinks it's her normal old husband. She doesn't realize it's kind of her husband from alternate universe. And he's trying to figure out what to say to her. She says, you know what to say to me. You know what to say to me. Like to make things happen. And he tries with Come on, baby, you make me so hot. Not. It turns out it's I love you, Katie. You figured it out. It wasn't all that other stuff. It wasn't. Come on, baby, you make me so hot. Look at my grocery cart. It's just. Trump sucks. It's a very simple, very simple electorate. Stick with that if you want to win, which again, we are rooting for, sort of, at least if we don't get our first choice. Now, for his part, the billionaire down the stage, Tom Steyer, who owns several multi million dollar properties, including a spectacular home in Lake Tahoe worth at least $18 million, is probably more like 60 million at this point, took aim at ICE because that's. Yeah, that, that's also an unlocking of the good times ahead. And everybody's favorite punching bag, White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy Stephen
- [20:00]
Neil Gorsuch
Miller, the governor of California, should hold people accountable who break the laws of California, specifically including ICE agents and the people who send them to racially profile, which is illegal, and use violence against Californians, which is illegal. And it should go up the chain to the supervisors, right up to Stephen Miller. If he's sending people to racially profile and hurt Californians or kill Californians, he should be held liable. It is not legal for federal agents to come to California and break the law. It is absolutely critical that California's governor
- [20:38]
Sean Davis
does stand up for everyone in California.
- [20:40]
Neil Gorsuch
That in fact, ICE, to me, is a criminal operation. I've said all along we should abolish ice.
- [20:46]
Sean Davis
It's breaking the law.
- [20:47]
Neil Gorsuch
It is coming here deliberately to break the law.
- [20:51]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, just a little flavor for how crazy these California Democrats are. We should abolish ice. Saying it loud and Proud from the debate stage and back to Porter. We should be paying for the health care of illegals on the taxpayer dime. I mean, like, they're, they don't, they have no shame around it. More illegals. We're not going to get rid of illegal immigration. We're going to get rid of ice, the ones trying to stop it, and deport the illegals who are literally killing our citizens across the country. But in California as well, that's where Kate Steinle died. They don't care. They're banking on a long, well, a short memory amongst their constituents. And they're probably right. They're probably right. There are no nationally elected Republicans in California. Steve Hilton's going to be the first when he wins this race. If there is a God. He was allowed to speak last night and gave Californians a different option on immigration. Listen to how rational he is. Mr. Hilton. Right now, President Trump is enacting a policy of mass deportation. As you know, roughly half of California, California farm workers, which are an essential part of this state's economy, are undocumented. As governor, would you push to deport them?
- [22:15]
Sean Davis
So I'm the only immigrant on stage. I'm a legal immigrant. And Americans support immigration when it is properly controlled. And what we saw under the Biden administration, open borders, undermined everybody's support for immigration. And as governor, I've made it very clear, although it is the federal government's responsibility to determine and implement immigration policy, I think it's important that all the laws are peacefully enforced. And as governor, I would make sure that we work with the federal government to enforce our laws.
- [22:51]
Megyn Kelly
Go, Steve, go. In the last debate, the candidates were asked to give current Governor Gavin Newsom a grade. This time they were asked to describe his performance. In one word. Porter said bold. So, Katie, you're telegraphing something there. Steyer said progressive. Becerra actually said game changing. I mean, I think we kind of agree with that, but not for the better. And so the sort of sycophant love affair with their fellow progressive was on full display as well. Here to react to all of this and more, Saurabh Amari, he's US Editor of Unherd. And Sean Davis, who is CEO of the Federalist. We've all been there. Stuck in a rigid multi year security contract with cancellation fees so high they feel like a ransom note. It's frustrating, right? And security should not feel like a trap or like something you must do. But let me tell you about SimpliSafe. They completely changed this game by offering 24, 7. Professional monitoring that's actually affordable. With no long term contracts, Simplisafe can give genuine peace of mind. With Simplisafe, you can arm your system right from your phone. The setup is a total breeze too. You can have your whole system customized exactly to your home's layout, up and running and in about 30 minutes. From indoor and outdoor cameras to sensors that detect fires and floods. It's comprehensive protection backed by agents ready to dispatch help. You're going to get 50% off a new system when you sign up for professional monitoring and your first month is free. Hello, free by visiting SimpliSafe.com, that's simply spelled with an I. Safe.com Megan that's half off at simply safe.com Megan there's no safe like simply safe. Guys, great to see you. Highly entertaining your thoughts. I'll start with you, Sean. I'm Katie Porter, the star of the evening.
- [24:50]
Sean Davis
Well, let he who has never used a potato as a weapon cast the first stone here.
- [24:57]
Megyn Kelly
Fair.
- [24:57]
Sean Davis
I, I love everything about her. I love that she's a nut job. I love that she's reading her stage directions up on behind the podium. It reminded me of that famous, I think it was a 1992 New Hampshire town hall that George H.W. bush did where he said, message, I care. Because I guess there was a cue card that said message, colon, I care. So message, I'm not crazy. Message, I'm likable. I'm looking forward to the next debate where she just says, look, everyone knows that I'm the most likable because that's the message, is that I'm likable. So yeah, she's totally nuts and I
- [25:33]
Megyn Kelly
can make fun of myself.
- [25:34]
Sean Davis
And let's talk about her shot that the staffer was in, as if the staffer was the bad part of that shot. Like, what part of messy kitchen did she think was like a really good aesthetic there? Like the staffer in the mask was the least offensive thing about that shot. But you know, Katie Porter, she fits in perfectly with the California Democrat Party because they understand, as the National Democrat Party does, that their foundation is illegal immigration. And so, you know, you would think that if they had wanted illegals to come in, they would strike some kind of bargain. Like, hey guys, we're going to let all these illegals in, but don't worry, it'll be okay. They're going to pay for all of your stuff. You know, I don't think it'd be a great idea, but that might be a bargain. Some people would go for. But instead the Democrats are like, hey, we're going to have an invasion of illegal immigrants. They're going to take over your country. And in return, you're not getting anything for free. No, you're still paying full freight, but you're going to give them everything for free. And it's so insane that when you hear it, you're like, that couldn't possibly be their message. And yet it is. Becerra agreed with it. Vieiro agreed with it. Steyer agreed with it. They understand that Americans have largely abandoned the Democrat Party because the Democrat Party has abandoned America. And so now their only hope, especially in California, which was utterly transformed by illegal immigration, their only hope is in bringing in as many people as they can, giving them as much free crap as they can, and then hoping that they'll vote for Democrats in larger numbers than actual Americans.
- [27:07]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And that they were basically owning that last night, Sarah. Basically being like, look, Katie Porter, I think was the one who said it like the only, the only new people who are coming here are illegals. So yeah, we need to take care of them. I mean, again, thank you for saying it out loud.
- [27:23]
Saurabh Amari
Yeah, look, I would say there one broad observation to make about this and maybe it's me trying to see the silver lining, but if you compare this to what Democratic internal debates were like in say 2020, it's remarkable how much of it was focused on what you might call material questions like health care, like a living wage and less so, you know, about. Now bracket the question of immigration aside, less so about policing or trans or stuff like that. So to some extent, even in the California Democratic Party, it has filtered down that the craziness of 2020, what we've come to call the woke kind of peak woke era, didn't work for the party. And so they can talk about other things. However, the kryptonite to that is immigration, the thing that undoes everything else. So I think about myself in a different universe. I could be a 1990s Democrat because probably unlike the two of you, I think labor unions in the private economy are a good thing. Workers need.
- [28:30]
Megyn Kelly
I was a 1990s Democrat.
- [28:32]
Saurabh Amari
Yeah, that's right.
- [28:33]
Megyn Kelly
I can relate to this. Bully.
- [28:34]
Saurabh Amari
Fair enough. Or support for just broadly speaking, the New Deal programs. I think those are achievements of working middle class people in this country. However, they don't work if you have infinity Immigration. Right. Because first of all, undocumented migrants, the reason big business loves undocumented migrants is because they put downward pressure on the wages of, of of native born workers. Obviously they, they're cheap and they put pressure on public services. So it, you know, the fact that they can't let that part of what I consider 2020 era madness, which is infinity migration, that the fact that they can't let it go in a way is a tragedy. And look, California has huge problems. It is still, I think like the 8th or 9th largest economy in the world if just taken by itself. But that's changing. Hollywood is increasingly moving to Atlanta. A lot of tech is no longer bound to Silicon Valley. And a lot of this has to do with these kinds of lifestyle governance at which Democrats are really bad. Right. Democratic cities, especially on the west coast, and especially in California, have come to be associated with tent cities and just this atmosphere of lawlessness. And that's the sort of stuff they need to be talking about. Not what I consider a very millennial style of campaigning, which Katie Porter especially exemplified. But it is all the other candidates where it's like me, you know, the message is, Katie, no one cares about Katie Porter's idiot. Instead of, you know.
- [30:13]
Sean Davis
Right.
- [30:14]
Megyn Kelly
And the fact, no, I care that you're wrong there.
- [30:16]
Saurabh Amari
That's right, that's right. I mean we all do for entertainment's sake. But actually get telling the people in the ad behind you, get out of my shot.
- [30:23]
Sean Davis
What?
- [30:23]
Saurabh Amari
Even if you're trying to make fun of yourself, actually is a terrible message. It's saying, look, I have this crowd behind me, but I don't want them go away so that I alone back to me.
- [30:32]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, just like she really, the more accurate would have been her saying, like, are you illegals? Then you can stay Americans. Get out. We did find the sound bite that I was referencing. Here it is in 17. Go ahead.
- [30:44]
Katie Porter
It's the job of the California governor to protect every single Californian. The sanctuary state policy is designed to make sure that our state resources, the taxpayer dollars, the public servants that we have, are focusing on doing their jobs, which is not cooperating with the federal immigration authorities. These are Californians. They contribute to our economy. They pay taxes. One of the only ways that our state has been growing in recent years.
- [31:12]
Megyn Kelly
It's right there, Sean. Black and white, the illegals are the only ways in which our state has been growing this year in recent years. And they're quote Californians, which seems to be some sort of clever way around their citizens. Right? Like, are they Californians? Can you call yourself a Californian if you just happen to live there, but you're there unlawfully and you could be ejected at any time if we get our shit together in our immigration department.
- [31:39]
Sean Davis
Well, yeah, it's interesting. They seem to have this kind of one way ratchet on who is and isn't a Californian. You know, if you're an illegal and you're there, you're a Californian. But I bet if I showed up there with some luggage and said, hey, I want to vote now, I'm in California, I'm a Californian, I don't think they would really be down with that. I don't think they would want like a red state diaspora showing up and saying, hey, we're all Californians now and we're here to vote. So it's this weird thing where you get to be a Californian, so called when you're doing what she wants, but if you're not, you're not. And then there's this other totally crazy thing they're doing out there, which is they understand that no one really wants to be there to build a business because it's totally suffocating and Kafka esque to try and start and run a business in California because their tax environment is so bad and so everyone's fleeing and so they've decided, well, crap, we can't have that. So we're going to do a retroactive tax. So if you leave the state after a certain point because you don't want to deal with our nonsense regulations and taxes here, we're still going to tax you even though you're not a Californian. You took the affirmative steps to not be in California, but we're going to come after you. And so it's this like Schrodinger's California question where you can simultaneously be a Californian and not depending on how you either help the Democrats bottom line for budgeting or whether you can add votes to them. And it's just what makes me truly sad is that California is an absolute gem. It is a jewel of America. It is one of the most stunningly beautiful places ever. It used to be an absolute paradise. And through one party governance over several decades, it's been utterly destroyed. And I think it's like downright tragic. This was the state that gave us Ronald Reagan.
- [33:19]
Megyn Kelly
I don't know, Sean. The illegals like it.
- [33:21]
Sean Davis
They do. They do love being there and getting free stuff. Who can blame them?
- [33:25]
Megyn Kelly
All right, well, let me keep going because we have a lot to hit. The Obamas are featured in the New Yorker, Barack Obama in particular, but there's plenty on Michelle too. And the headline is Barack Obama considers his Role in the age of Trump. Now, I was thinking about this, or I'm in the context of Katie Porter and her emotional dysregulation. I actually do think it's bad. I would think it's bad. Probably it's entertaining, but it's not great in somebody who's asking us to make them a leader. And it's extra bad because she's a woman. That's just the truth. Because, you know, people already have a suspicion that a female leader might be more emotional and she will be more emotional. Women are more emotional than men. That's actually one of the things that makes us beautiful. That's not exactly a leadership skill. So when running for an important role like that, you would probably tamp it down rather than leaning into your tears and. And your very angry nature. So, I don't know. Her defenders would say maybe we're setting an impossible bar for her. And, you know, whatever. She. It's not fair to hold her to these high standards if you don't hold the men to them. Enter Michelle Obama in this interview. Okay, she says, it's not about Katie Porter. This is about, of course, herself. She. She talks about how after President Trump delivered his first inaugural address. Yeah. Isn't like acceptance speech at the inauguration a dark address, they note, that led George W. Bush to note that was some weird shit. The Obamas flew by helicopter to Joint Base Andrews, where they boarded a plane that took them to Palm Springs for a vacation. On the flight, Michelle sobbed uncontrollably for a half hour. It was just the release of eight years of trying to do everything perfectly, she said in an onstage interview with Oprah Winfrey back in 2018. I said to Barack, that was so hard. What we just did was so hard. And I've wanted to say that for eight years. Then they cut to Obama, by the way, and talked to him about what it's like to constantly be in demand on the political front. People want him out there being the Democratic mouthpiece still and to be on the campaign circuit. And he says it does create a genuine tension in our household, and it frustrates Michelle. I'm more forgiving of it, he says, but I understand why people want this. So what we have here is more tension between the Obamas and more woe is me from Michelle Obama, who, again, as reiterated by the New Yorker, felt the American people, who she's called racist many times, were holding her to an impossible standard that no human being could. Could meet. So is this, in fact our sexism and our. Our Racism that put poor Michelle in such a terrible position for these eight years.
- [36:10]
Saurabh Amari
Yeah, no, I don't think so. And it's more of that again, that millennial. They're older than millennials. But it defined that kind of generation where the message was the person. And look, President Obama had a historic opportunity to remake the country. And some would say he did, and in destructive ways. I don't think so. I think what's remarkable about Obama is ultimately, besides Obamacare, how little he did fundamentally to change the pattern away from Bush on foreign policy. He was largely a hawk. He started two more wars, a proxy war in Syria and a pointless regime change war in Libya. And then you had the fact that domestically speaking, he turned over a lot of decisions about the economy to all these figures from Wall street. Right. Tim Geithner, etc. Etc. And that's because that kind of empty messaging me hope, whatever that meant, was easy to fill with the same old agenda just under a different wrapping, right? The same old kind of pro war, pro Wall street agenda. And that set up the we're still there. And that set up the Trump coming to power.
- [37:25]
Megyn Kelly
Right?
- [37:25]
Saurabh Amari
That was the reason Trump came to power. And it was again, racism had very little to do with it because the most important group that brought Trump to power are white working class people in states like Pennsylvania who were twice Obama voters. They voted twice for Obama and then they became Trump voters. So those people weren't racist or didn't become racist over the course of the Obama presidency. They supported him twice, but they ultimately didn't get what they wanted out of it. They basically got more of the same. It's remarkable how little differed between Bush and Obama in, in some ways. And I think that's the real failure
- [38:03]
Megyn Kelly
that they should be. Sadly, we're learning that that's true about Trump when it comes to foreign policy somewhat as well, which is why those same white working class voters have now amazingly turned on him. I mean, it was like that was the most of all the shocking polls around Trump in this war. That was the most shocking is his loss of the white working class. No one ever thought it could happen. That is the Fifth Avenue voter, Sean, you know who famously it was. Trump could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and they would never turn on him. I have to, before I get to that though, I've got. I saved this one for you, Sean Davis. Cuz the Federalist has done yeoman's work on Russiagate and the nonsense which was perpetrated, propagated, pushed, supported by Brett, by President Barack Obama. It was Obama's baby. And he has the nerve to say this. I guess he's doing a press tour, cuz he also went on Stephen Colbert. He had the nerve to say this in Sat 21.
- [38:56]
Sean Davis
The White House shouldn't be able to
- [38:58]
Neil Gorsuch
direct the Attorney General to go around prosecuting. The idea is that the Attorney General
- [39:04]
Sean Davis
is the people's lawyer. It's not the President's consigliere.
- [39:07]
Neil Gorsuch
We can't overcome the politicization of the criminal justice system, the awesome power of the state. You can't have a situation in which whoever's in charge of the government starts
- [39:19]
Sean Davis
using that to go after their political enemies.
- [39:25]
Megyn Kelly
We can't.
- [39:27]
Sean Davis
The audacity of this man. Like, remember, it is wild to see him say the AG is not the President's consigliere. I remember Obama's AG, Eric Holder saying, I'm the President's wingman. I'm his boy. I got him. I'm his wingman. So you have the man who was the literal architect of the Russiagate hoax, which they cooked up together in the oval office on January 5, 2017. It was him and Biden and Susan Rice and Comey and Clapper, and they were all in on it. So for this guy who has two legacies, one of which, like Barack Obama, if somehow you see this clip, you need to understand you have two legacies. One is Donald Trump. Congrats, by the way. Your only lasting legacy in American political history is creating Donald Trump. So good job with that. And then the second one is the normalization of Lawfare. So I agree with him. Yes, Lawfare is awful. It is a cancer on the American republic. And I don't know if it's something we can come back from. He is the one who started it, okay? He gave it its origin story for this guy to go out there and pretend he had nothing to do with it. I will tell you, between that interview, between the New Yorker article, he had kind of faded away and I had forgotten about how mendacious and unlikable and dishonest he was. So thank you, Barack, for coming back and reminding all of us why we couldn't wait to get rid of you.
- [40:51]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, truly that that statement, we. You can't have a situation where whoever is in charge starts using that to go after their political enemies. Oh my God. Like that is literally what he did. That was the beginning of Russiagate by decision by him. Not to mention what his vice president, who went on to become president, did for the four years he was in office and all the other Democrats like Fannie Willis and Alvin Bragg who tried to get Trump politically. I mean, this is just, it's crazy not to mention what happened to Bannon. It's like for the interview, Stephen Colbert not to say anything. Like nothing you like. I realize he's not a journalist, but it's just so hack is so hack. Like it's stomach turning. Okay, fine, we've righted that ship. All right, we've got to talk about Iran because I have no idea what's happening in Iran. That's where I want to start it. There are reports now that from like the reporters to whom this administration or Netanyahu use to get information out like this, what's his name, Barack Ravid, who's constantly saying there's a deal, there's a deal, there's a deal. This guy served in the idf and, and literally not one of them has proven to be true. Not one. So I hesitate to even cite this guy. But once again he is saying that there's a deal and it's allegedly a 14 point deal, at least potentially a deal. And goes through like what the, what the points might be. They include. Okay, let's see. A moratorium on uranium enrichment. This is, this piece is dovetailed by Axios a more possible duration. A possible moratorium on uranium enrichment that could go 12 years to 15. Iran wants it to be 5. Reportedly we wanted it to be 20. We wanted a provision whereby any Iranian violation on enrichment would prolong the moratorium. But after the moratorium they could enrich to the low level of 3.67%. By the way, that's exactly the same amount as Barack Obama deal that Trump said he hated. The jcpoa. It would commit to Iran never, never seeking a nuclear weapon. And according to a US official reports, Axios, the parties are discussing a clause where Iran would commit not to operate underground nuclear facilities and would commit to an enhanced inspections regime, including snap inspections by UN inspectors. Then two sources with knowledge, this is Axios also claim that Iran would agree to remove its highly enriched uranium from the country. They'd been haggling over that. Iran originally said no, we said give it to us. There was talk about giving it to a third party. This says one source as an option is moving the material to the United States. And in return there would be a gradual lifting of our sanctions imposed on Iran. The gradual release of billions of dollars in Iranian funds that are frozen around the world. In one of the deals earlier that fell apart we had proposed the release of 20 billion in frozen Iranian assets. So we don't know what the actual number of billions is that we'd be releasing to them, but a lot of billions, Sohrab. And all of this is to get them to open up the Strait of Hormuz and make promises to us on uranium enrichment and pursuit of a nuclear weapon that we were already well down the line in negotiating with them when we started this war. So your reaction to that news?
- [44:32]
Neil Gorsuch
Yeah.
- [44:33]
Saurabh Amari
Look like you, I'm, I'm a little bit skeptical every time there is this hyping of a deal. I watch Iranian state TV all the time, and they, they seem to think that they're, they have the upper hand. Of course, they also propagandize as well. What we do know is this for a fact, is that the tone from the Trump administration has shifted from the president himself. Yesterday, I believe he said something like, I'm pausing. Operation Freedom, which was this effort to escort vessels through the Strait of Hormuz. I'm going to putting a pause to that. That's a pretty sick. And the fact that he downplayed the extent of the Iranian response. The Iranians had attacked the UAE as this facility that they had hit. And he sort of said it wasn't that much. The fact that he didn't, he could have used that as a cause for restarting the war or anything like that, but he quickly tamped it down. That could suggest that we're getting somewhere. And look, the tragedy here, though, is, as you said, a lot of this seems to be giving up a lot of points to Iran in order to just restore a status quo ante that, you know, wouldn't have been altered but for the decision, the decision to go to war. So, yeah, coming days, coming weeks, months, years is going to be a reckoning with the fact that the people who sold this war aggressively and said that the Iranian regime was on the verge of collapse, it would just take a little push or whatever. That includes Bibi, that includes Senator Lindsey Graham, that includes lots of others in this kind of hawkish orbit who were supposed to have been sidelined by Trump. The whole rise of Trump was to get those people the kind of permanent war party, you know, get their hands off the levers of power, and then they ended up getting exactly what they wanted out of what was supposed to have been the least likely administration to give it to them. So there's going to be a reckoning, I think, in the Republican Party. Certainly the Democrats are already are on a far different Place, right. The mainstream candidates and office holders will talk about Israel as an apartheid state or vote for withholding defensive and offensive and defensive arms from them. But even in the Republican Party look with under 50s, extremely frustrated with this independence majority are frustrated with that whole complex of pro Israel, pro war ideologies. Because bottom line, like, what has it gotten us? We went into this yesterday. I filled up my tank and I posted about it on Twitter. It was like a, let's say 2020 style price for filling my tank. 2022, I should say.
- [47:20]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, me too. I filled up over the weekend. It was $5.09 a gallon, $5 in Connecticut right now. Today, the average price per gallon, it just went up today. Again, the Average price is $4.53. A gallon a year ago is at $3.17. That's gas. Diesel. Today it's at 5.65. A year ago it was at 355. So it's more than $2 higher so than it was a year ago.
- [47:52]
Saurabh Amari
And that it's only that has ramifications
- [47:56]
Megyn Kelly
of its highest ever. Oh, yeah. I mean, my husband actually wrote, literally wrote the book on diesel on Rudolph Diesel and walked us through the number of things in the economy that are powered by diesel. It's a real thing. Every truck, every ship, every half, the cars, every crane, like all the heavy equipment, like, it's all powered by Diesel, which is $2 higher per gallon than it was a year ago and 16 cents off its highest in history. Sean, some of this is what's leading to this. I give you Harry Enton talking about Trump's approval rating in sat 12.
- [48:32]
Sean Davis
One of them that just came out over the weekend was the ABC News Washington Post Ipsos poll. And you can see it right here. I mean, this just tells the story, right? The lowest net approval ratings ever for the President of the United States. That is approval minus disapproval. The lowest previous record according to the ABC News Washington Post poll, was Trump was 24 points underwater. That was all the way back in term number one. My beard at that particular point did not have any gray in it like it does today. But guess what? As my beard has turned to gray, Trump's numbers have fallen to a new record low. According to the Washington Post ABC News poll, He is now 25 points underwater on the net approval rating. That is the lowest ever that he has ever been at.
- [49:16]
Megyn Kelly
Mm. Your thoughts, Sean?
- [49:17]
Neil Gorsuch
Yeah.
- [49:18]
Sean Davis
There's a cruel political irony here because the reality is what was keeping Iran from developing an actual nuclear weapon, which they did not have yet. Either last summer during Midnight Hammer or when Epic Fury started. The reality is that it was fear of an American regime coming after them that kept them kind of in check from actually going from full development. And I think it's helpful to have this understanding that if Gavin Newsom gets in or AOC somehow gets into the White House in two and a half, three years, Iran's getting a nuclear weapon. There's no fear of them. There is no fear of Obama, there is no fear of Biden. And so this cruel irony here is that by engaging in this operation, which has been deeply unpopular and only becoming more so, wars do not get more popular over time, they only get less popular. I think this one right now is 40% in favor of versus 60 against. It's actually making it more likely that we end up with a Newsom or an AOC in office, which means it will be more likely that Iran gets a nuclear weapon if you don't have someone like Avance or Rubio in office. And so it just makes it so painful to look at. This gas is way up. If you all think you're hurt, and I've got a 35 gallon tank on my truck, I think I'm filling up at $130 a fill up now, which is a real kick in the pants. So we've got the higher gas prices, the economy is suffering. As you said, the whole economy runs on diesel. You don't harvest a kernel of corn without diesel. And even the dyed diesel, the tax free off road Diesel is over $5 a gallon. So you're hurting the economy. You've made your agenda less popular. You've made your enemies more likely to get into operations office, which actually in the long term might make it more likely that Iran gets a nuclear weapon. So I, I just find the whole thing genuinely tragic.
- [51:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, me too. Tragic. That is the right word. It's. It's also infuriating. It's incredibly frustrating. I can't stand the gaslighting we're getting from the President's defenders and the administration. It's like everyone knows this was a disaster. Please just get out as quickly and as seamlessly as is possible. I mean, I realize that's assuming a lot at this point. And, and you know, you've got Marco Rubio yesterday saying, we just want to. We just want the Strait of Hormuz open. Crystal ball tweets. The unachievable aim of the war is now to undo the damage of the war. Well said, guys. Gotta run. Thank you both. Coming up next Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch is here. This is gonna be a fun one. Let's talk about what's really happening right now. New data shows that financial stress is at an all time high for some. Many Americans are at a breaking point. Debt maxed out, no extra money, no room to breathe. And some people are running out of options. Listen, if debt has been weighing on you, you're not alone. And when it comes to debt, waiting usually makes things worse. Interest piles up. Minimum payments keep you stuck. But you don't need another loan or bankruptcy to solve this problem. You need a strategy. That's why I want to tell you about Done With Debt. They build a smart, personalized plan around you. They know what it takes to get you the biggest reductions possible. Whether you owe 10,000 bucks or much more. Done With Debt has one clear goal. Lower what you owe so you keep more of your paycheck every month. Start with a free consultation. It takes minutes. Share your situation and find out what's possible. You don't have to stay stuck. Go to donewithdebt.com that's donewithdebt.com now finding
- [52:44]
Neil Gorsuch
a doctor is a little less challenging. UnitedHealth Group is investing in tools that
- [52:48]
Megyn Kelly
make it easier for patients to navigate healthcare and pay less.
- [52:52]
Neil Gorsuch
These transparency tools help patients find providers. And this is the big thing.
- [52:56]
Megyn Kelly
Compare costs up front.
- [52:59]
Neil Gorsuch
The big picture, more transparent pricing benefits everyone. These tools from UnitedHealth Group can help patients save hundreds of dollars annually. Learn more@unitedhealthgroup.com Commitment.
- [53:13]
Megyn Kelly
Wasn't that delicious?
- [53:14]
Katie Porter
So good.
- [53:15]
Neil Gorsuch
Your bill, ladies.
- [53:16]
Megyn Kelly
I got it. You got it? No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly.
- [53:24]
Saurabh Amari
People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash
- [53:26]
Megyn Kelly
credit card prefer to pay because they
- [53:28]
Sean Davis
earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.
- [53:30]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No. The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card.
- [53:38]
Sean Davis
Visit Wells Fargo.comActiveCash terms apply.
- [53:46]
Megyn Kelly
We are now only 59 days away from one of the most historic days in American history. The 250th birthday of the United States of America. Yes, this July 4th is a monumental anniversary. And there are sure to be celebrations like we've never seen before. As you guys know, we go all out for the 4th of July every year at our home, including dressing in colonial costumes, doing a whole play, reenacting everything from Thomas Paine to Sam, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, debating who's gonna write the declaration to an actual reading of it. So we lean in, and I Recommend you all do the same this year, because I think everyone's gonna go big. Everyone's gonna go big for the big 2, 5, 0. Besides all the fun, one of the big questions for every parent is, what do we teach our children about the founding of this country and the ideals it represents? I mean, you know, it's up to us. Because sadly, too many schools ignore civics and really don't want to linger on the founding of this country because some of them are woke and annoying and find the whole thing reprehensible. So it's up to us in far too many cases. And guess who swooped in to give us a helping hand? It's Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch, a Trump appointee. He is the author, along with his former clerk, Janie Nitze, of this new children's book, Heroes of 1776, the story of the Declaration of Independence. It's actually like it's labeled a children's book. But can I tell you, you'll all love it. I was actually thinking as I was reading it, I would do what with this book, what I'm doing with Joseph Massey's book of poetry. Just order a bunch of them and give them out as a housewarming present when you go over to a friend's house for dinner, or an actual present when somebody's celebrating a birthday, what have you, especially this next year. Right? Everyone will love it. I mean, I assume the listeners of this show have friends who are all patriots and don't have a book like this. It tells the tale of how our nation's founding document was created and the incredible people behind it, and not just what led to the Declaration, but what happened after it was written and openly declared. Justice Gorsuch joins us now. Justice Gorsuch, welcome back to the show. Great to see you.
- [56:04]
Neil Gorsuch
It is so great to be with you, Megan. I gotta tell you, though, last night I got a note from an old law school classmate and dear friend who thinks I'm okay, but she is your biggest fan and was so excited I was going to be with you today.
- [56:17]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, yeah. I was going to say, until you said she. I was going to ask if it was Barack Obama, because I know you guys were. I like this woman already. Okay. I love the idea of this book because it's entertaining the way you've written it. It actually goes right along. The things you've chosen to zero in on are interesting and on point. You highlight some heroes of the. Of the whole Declaration and then revolution. And some people we didn't know as well. So what was the point of doing this?
- [56:47]
Neil Gorsuch
Well, you know, we're going to be celebrating, as you say, with fireworks and parades, and that's great, but I'm hopeful that maybe we can take just a moment to reflect on the Declaration itself, the promises it holds for each of us, just how radical the ideas in it were and remain, and the people behind it. None of it was inevitable, and the courage and sacrifice they showed were just remarkable. I know kids love superheroes. Who doesn't? But the people who made the Declaration possible were real superheroes, too. And some were, yes, the. The founders, the Framers. But men, women, children of all ages and backgrounds came together during the course of the Revolution in incredible hardship to make the Declaration real for us.
- [57:37]
Megyn Kelly
You actually, like the book, actually brought me near tears and with a little chill down the spine a couple of times as you just think back to the monumental nature of what was done. You write on one piece of it about some of the early founders getting together. And on June 7, Richard Lee of Virginia asked the delegates to adopt this resolution. This is June 7, of course, which is about a month before July 4, that these United colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states, which would make its way in there. And it was considered a radical idea to break from England, to declare, even though we'd been living as colonies of England for all this time, to declare that we were free and independent states. And there, like, there was a period there where to be a revolutionary was considered really radical. And just bit by bit, the momentum built. I mean, was it fun for you to go back and get your hands around that and really, like, relive that,
- [58:39]
Neil Gorsuch
in a way, with my co author Jenny Nitze. And it was just so much fun to relearn some things I'd forgotten and to learn some things I didn't know. But you're right about the radical nature of those ideas, that all men are created equal, that each of us has inalienable rights given to us by God, not by government, and that we have the right to rule ourselves. Nobody in Europe thought any of those ideas was correct. It was a threat to the social order everywhere, to monarchs, to kings and oligarchs, dictators around the world. And it kind of remains so today, if you think about it. And it was highly contingent. There was nothing guaranteed, you point out, on June 7th when the resolution was introduced. Even then the delegates were split and the country was split. Only about 40% supported independence. Another 20 or 30% were. Were loyalists. And the rest Were pretty eager to stay out of it.
- [59:40]
Megyn Kelly
There was anger at King George. They were very angry about what he was doing. And it's funny now because if you read in our ultimate founding documents, you see things in there about not housing troops in our house, in our homes. It's like to the modern day American, it's like, what's that about? Why did we have to put that in there? But you go back 250 years and it makes sense. These are some of the grievances they had against the king, who was one that must be near and dear to your own heart. Actually not allowing trials by jury. I mean, that is so American now, to think that there was a time where our forefathers were having to face criminal charges without a jury of their peers.
- [60:21]
Neil Gorsuch
Yeah, no. You go through the Bill of Rights, and every one of them really traces its way back. Ability to have independent judges decide your case. Instead, it was the king's agents who were deciding cases in the colonies and a jury of your peers, they wanted to take cases and over to Britain so that you wouldn't even have a jury in Massachusetts, say, decide your case.
- [60:42]
Megyn Kelly
You go through how, as they were together and they were drafting it and they were getting ready. John Adams, ultimately, when they had all the votes for it, that John Adams writes to his wife Abigail, that on that day, quote, the greatest question was decided which ever was debated in America. And a greater and a greatest perhaps. I gotta put my glasses on, Judge. Sorry. Justice Garzage. The greatest question. We're all getting old. Okay. The greatest question was decided which ever was debated in America. And a greater perhaps never was or will be decided among men. Wow. I mean, he. They knew how huge this was, even when our country was just this tiny little baby.
- [61:34]
Neil Gorsuch
Well, they knew that they were planting the seed for a completely different form of government than anything that was known. And it is kind of amazing to think about those three ideas in the Declaration. We've appealed to them throughout our history. During the Civil War, the Civil rights movement, the women's suffrage movement, because they're perfect ideas. They speak to every human heart. They exclude no one. And they've been the model for freedom movements across the world as well. But even in. Even. Even when they voted, you know, on June 7th, that. That. That resolution was introduced, but they tabled it because there was still so much disagreement. They brought it to a vote first on July 1st. But we don't celebrate July 1st because they were divided. Only nine colonies voted for independence. Others were split. They were against it. And Some couldn't vote at all because they didn't have sufficient instructions from home. So they. What happened after that day, it was really pretty dramatic. Cesar Rodney was called from Delaware, where he was home on business. He was a delegate from Delaware. He was called and said his vote was needed to break a tie in the Delaware delegation. He rode 80 miles through the night in a thunderstorm, suffering cancer of the face. People had told him he needed to go to England for treatment, and he wouldn't do it because he was such a patriot. He wanted to be there. And he came in the next day dripping wet to break the vote in Delaware. And there's Edward Rutledge from South Carolina, who voted against independence on July 1, but who realized after the vote it was more important for us to stand united than for his own personal views to prevail. So the next day he switched his vote and urged others to do so. And so July 2nd was the day when Adams wrote those words. He thought we would be celebrating July 2nd with Fireworks Forever. You know, he's wrong about that. We celebrate the fourth when they approved the Declaration, which I actually think, Megan, is kind of interesting. Right. We. We don't celebrate the revolution. We don't celebrate the beginning of it, the end of it, like you might think we would our. The war. We don't celebrate Plymouth Rock. We celebrate a document. We celebrate a document with those three great ideas that speak to every one of us.
- [63:49]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And I mean, it's meaningful. I've told the audience before, we had a friend from Argentina who was in town for the last July 4th, and he couldn't believe how everyone puts an American flag on the outside of their house. He said, is it only for July 4th? I said, actually, no. I mean, most people actually have an American flag. A lot of people do year round, but pretty much every house, at least where we go in the summers, on July 4th. I mean, he said, we don't have anything like this in Argentina. No one has this kind of open patriotism. It's worth fighting for. It's dwindling somewhat in our country. This book will help. It'll help reset the table. And as you point out, I mean, it's called heroes of 1776. They are heroes. It ends with, as exactly it should, with a relationship between Adams and Jefferson, if you'll permit me. You write later in life, they set aside their disagreements, quote, you and I ought not to die before we have explained ourselves to each other. Adams wrote to Jefferson in the same spirit of unity that brought about the Declaration and Constitution. They became friends again. In all, a pair went on to exchange over 150 letters, many of them reflecting on the events that had led to the Revolution. A letter from you calls up recollections very dear to my mind. Jefferson wrote to Adams. It carries me back to the times when, beset with difficulties and dangers, we were fellow laborers in the same cause, struggling for what is valley most valuable to man, his right of self government. And you finish the book with a story of how Jefferson died.
- [65:23]
Neil Gorsuch
Yeah. Our illustrator, Chris Ellison, really is historically sensitive, but also able to bring these people to life in a beautiful way. And that deathbed scene of Jefferson is exactly how it's been reflected, recorded historically correctly. Those people were around his bed at the time he passed. And I. I think their story is kind of inspiring, particularly in our times. Right. We think we have disagreements, and we do, and I don't want to belittle them, but so did Adams and Jefferson. They fought tooth and nail. They said some pretty terrible things about each other while they each was in office. And they didn't speak for years. This after being really the moving forces behind the Declaration and writing the Declaration together. But yet later in life, they came to realize that really more united them than divided them. And it really was all around the ideals of the Declaration.
- [66:23]
Megyn Kelly
I'm going to read a little bit more from the book in a bit, but I want to switch, if you don't mind, to a little bit about you. I'd love to share some of your personal biological with the audience, because they know who you are, but not everybody knows who you are. Right. So you're from Denver, but also Maryland. Explain your background to us a little.
- [66:42]
Neil Gorsuch
Yeah, no, I grew up in Colorado. That's exactly right. My family's four generations Colorado, and very proud and pleased to be. Have so much family there. I spent as much time there as I can possibly get away with with my day job, but I've got an unusual assignment that has taken me away.
- [67:01]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. All right, so now you. Is it true that you grew up in a family where your mom was conservative and your dad was liberal?
- [67:06]
Neil Gorsuch
No, I wouldn't put it that way at all. Yeah. No. My mom.
- [67:10]
Megyn Kelly
What were their politics?
- [67:11]
Neil Gorsuch
Very much a Republican activist, and, if you want to call it that, very involved in politics. My father, I think, was a moderate Republican is the way I describe him.
- [67:24]
Megyn Kelly
And how did they raise their kids? Were they tough on you or. You're the oldest. My understanding is, were they tough on you guys? Did they make you like I talked to rfkj and in the Kennedy family you had to have three articles from the newspaper read by the time you got to dinner and you were going to have to stand up and summarize one and then there would be a debate that followed. What was it like in the Gorsuch family?
- [67:45]
Neil Gorsuch
You know I think we're pretty typical of that period. By the way, I have the best brother and sister and some wonderful step siblings too. Very blessed in my family when I have difficult times, I have them no matter what and I love them very very much. But we were latchkey kids like everybody in Gen X. Yep. And we went about day and the, you know, you had to be home by the time it was dark and that was about it. And you know I, I, I think about, we all have stories about our own childhood and interesting and difficult challenges and we think we've got amazing stories. But I hope actually the kids who read this book will find inspirations for them and realize what they can do and the courage that is within them. We tell the story. I think my childhood, nothing on the patch of like. Emily Geiger who is an 18 year old was asked to pass a message from a patriot general to another patriot general but had to go through British lines to do it. And she volunteered when no one else would. She rode on her horse, she got captured by British troops, she read the message, she swallowed the paper on which it was written. She then escaped the British troops and rode on and you know, think about the courage and the sacrifice of those kids during the course of the revolution. Nathaniel Hale was 21 years old when he was put to death for being a spy. There's a story.
- [69:18]
Megyn Kelly
Oh my gosh, that's crazy.
- [69:19]
Neil Gorsuch
Another one that didn't make it in Megan, that just really, I wish it had but you know, there's only so much room. Richard Lloyd Jones was 10 years old when he joined up the Continental army as a fifer marching alongside the troops suffering the same hardships. He served for three years and then he walked home 150 miles by himself.
- [69:42]
Megyn Kelly
Wow. It's like the stories that we joke about our grandparents telling us, only it really happened. All right now not to give you too much credit and compare you to that, but you had your own act of courage in being an open conservative at Harvard Law School. That is very bold, very bold. And I wanted to ask you about it because I think our founders would be shocked to see how difficult it is for especially right leaning young people to own their politics in school that they, you know, if Discussions come up about Columbus Day or the Supreme Court or the presidential election. Many young conservatives feel the need to keep their mouths shut. What do you make of that?
- [70:28]
Neil Gorsuch
I love our First Amendment and the opportunity to speak your mind and you should do so freely and bravely and whatever point of view you have. And I think if you look back through our history, you're going to realize that what seems hard or unique in your own times, and I'm not denying the reality of those things, you're going to find echoes of it and you're going to learn how to deal with it when you study your history and you're going to see. You want to talk about suppressing people you disagree with. Well, you know, John Adams, signed the Alien and Sedition act, made it a crime to speak negatively about the President of the United States, jailed publishers who criticized him and called him fat and bald and, and querulous. And I think it was all of those things. So we've all had. We all face our own challenges, but I think you can take strength and find heroes to emulate. When you bother to look through the pages of history,
- [71:27]
Megyn Kelly
was it. I mean, you're just a little older than I am, but like, when I went to school in the 80s, you could say whatever you wanted, no one cared. Like, the way I remember it anyway, was you'd get more pats on the head if you espoused liberal points of view, but it wasn't really required in order to get ahead everywhere the way it seems to be today. So just to the many, many young people who have asked me directly, Justice Gorsuch, you don't have access to you. Should they go along to get along to get a pat on the head and an A if asked about their politics, do you think like young kids who are at college who want to go to med school or law school or grad school, should they play the game or should they say what they actually believe and, you know, take. Take the lower grade if they must.
- [72:15]
Neil Gorsuch
First I say to young kids like that, learn. All right? Before you criticize, before you say you know, how the world should be changed, make sure you know what you're talking about, okay? Before you want to tear down that gate, make sure you know why the gate was put there in the first place, because maybe it's holding back a herd of buffalo, all right? But once you've educated yourself and you really do feel like you know something about what you're talking about. Yes. Remember what it was like back in 1776. Not everybody did Stand up. Would you have had the bravery to be a patriot? Right. Would you have been one of the silent majority who just tried to stay out of it? And aren't you glad some people did stand up? And what a difference they made. And what a difference you can make when you come to it with the kind of knowledge, thoughtfulness, deliberation and courage and a willingness to sacrifice. You have to remember, like most of the men who signed the Declaration, gave their fortunes to the revolution, they died poorer for the cause. They gave it everything they had. We tell the story, for example, of one of the founders from Virginia, who. Thomas Nelson, who was head of the militia at Yorktown. And when he saw that the British were using his home as their headquarters, he didn't hesitate to order his men to open fire on it. And having given so much to the revolutionary cause, he died so poor that they buried his body in a hidden grave so his creditors couldn't dig it up and hold it as collateral for payment. And when he died, was asked whether he was bitter about his experiences. And he said he'd do it all over again. And I. I do think, yes, you need to stand up and be counted, but make sure you do it for the right reasons and with full knowledge of what you're involved in.
- [74:11]
Megyn Kelly
I think some people believe that we were a hardier stock back then.
- [74:15]
Neil Gorsuch
I don't, but I covered that.
- [74:17]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I cover the news every day. I was going to say, some people are weaker today, and some people were weaker back then, but we still have a lot of strong people, old and young. What's your take on it?
- [74:26]
Neil Gorsuch
Absolutely no. You know, people. People ask me all the time, are you an optimist or a pessimist? And I struggle with that. But at the end of the day. At the end of the day, I'm an optimist. I just spent yesterday at the Reagan library talking to kids. It was fantastic.
- [74:39]
Megyn Kelly
It's amazing.
- [74:40]
Neil Gorsuch
And I remember his optimism for the country. Right. America's days were ahead of us, he said, in 1980. Well, I remember 1980, and we had inflation and interest rates about 20%. We couldn't fly a helicopter across the desert to rescue hostages. Everybody was lining up for gasoline. Vietnam, Watergate, the riots of the 60s. People really did think America's best days were behind. And he said no. And I don't see any reason why we should disagree with Ronald Reagan's assessment today. And. And so, yes, I am an optimist, and I do, but I do think it takes courage. Right? Somebody has to run the zoo. And so those brave young people. Get yourself educated and then get involved.
- [75:29]
Megyn Kelly
Now, I understand you because after you went to Columbia for college, to Harvard for law school, and then you wound up in Oxford for, if I'm not mistaken, a degree, an advanced degree in philosophy. And there you met your beautiful wife. And she's a Brit.
- [75:46]
Neil Gorsuch
She's a proud Brit, but she's a proud American, too. She took the citizenship test, which, you know, it distresses me to know that only about 6 in 10 adult Americans can pass the citizenship. Megan, it is not hard. I helped her study for it, but she loved it.
- [76:05]
Megyn Kelly
Was there any tension in you writing the book, you know, when you got to the part of the separation?
- [76:11]
Neil Gorsuch
No, she. She. She loves this country. She loves the American West. She's a cowgirl at heart and spends a part of every day on a horse. And. And that is a very thing for both of us. But. But she does like to lord over some of the British stuff, reminding me that we owe so much to Britain in this country, including the fact that about half of our city and state names are derivative of towns in Britain. New York, New Jersey, Maryland. As she would say, Virginia. Yeah.
- [76:45]
Megyn Kelly
Here in New York, Sutton Place. There's all sorts of. What? I don't. I mean, when you guys are together, is it. I mean, do you favor Wills and Kate or Megan and Harold? Is it what? Like, where do you land on that?
- [76:58]
Neil Gorsuch
You're gonna have to ask her that. Megan. I. I don't follow. That's not my world.
- [77:03]
Megyn Kelly
She sounds like a sensible woman. And so therefore, it's clearly Wills and. Which I support. I'm glad to hear that. I'll just say I'll fill in the blank for you. So. So you've. You're married, you have friendships. You told me the last time on the court, we talked a little bit about how cordial everybody is. Is there any. Who's. If you're a Thomas Jefferson, who's your John Adams, who's your. You know, maybe there's some friction at time, but there's just a ton of respect. And in the end, you wind up true friends.
- [77:30]
Neil Gorsuch
There are many of them. I'm never going to convince Sonia Sotomayor or Steve Breyer about originalism. That's just not going to happen. I mean, Steve's written, like, three books telling me why I'm wrong about originalism. But. But we know we're going to disagree over cases. That's not a surprise to us. I mean, lawyers, as you well know, that's the stock in trade, we're going to disagree and we're going to have different points of view about interpreting the law. But I do sit around the table from eight other people every day who I know love this country and love our Constitution and love the Declaration every bit as much as I do. And when you remember that about people with whom you disagree, if you assume they're operating in good faith, I'm not saying everybody is. But start with that assumption and then listen. And if you listen to them long enough, you're going to find something in there you're going to agree on. And maybe you start.
- [78:28]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, just their humanity. Start by seeing their humanity. And I love the formality of the procedures with. Amongst the nine of you at the. You know, when you go in a conference, it's just there are certain commitments to decorum that we've lost in so many other areas of life that I really appreciate you guys upholding.
- [78:45]
Neil Gorsuch
Shake hands.
- [78:46]
Megyn Kelly
I'll ask you on that.
- [78:47]
Neil Gorsuch
Every time we get together, we do not interrupt each other, as. I'm sorry, I just did you.
- [78:54]
Megyn Kelly
No, no.
- [78:54]
Neil Gorsuch
Speaking to each other around the conference table. And, and we listen. We. We spend most of our time listening to each other.
- [79:03]
Megyn Kelly
So how. How rattling, if I may ask, was the leak of the Dobbs decision, given the close relationship with it? I mean, that must have been. It must have shaken you.
- [79:14]
Neil Gorsuch
Well, I think like everything else, it's. It's a balance, right, between transparency on the one hand and privacy on the other. Transparency in the court. You get a lot of it. You can hear our arguments live, streamed, orally, every day. There it is. For anybody who wants to listen to it. I find it's often good to put people. It'll put you to bed really easy. Often.
- [79:39]
Megyn Kelly
Does it ever put you to bed?
- [79:42]
Neil Gorsuch
No, it's my job. What are full lawyers. And then, of course, you get our opinions published so you can see exactly what we think at the end of the day about the. The case. At the same time, you. You clearly do need room to be able to talk to one another, Right. To discuss the case candidly and to find those places where we can agree. And that's important, too. And our founders knew this as well. In the course of their deliberations, right? The Constitutional Convention, they locked the windows in the heat of the summer months in Philadelphia and closed the doors. Think about how hot that was in order.
- [80:19]
Megyn Kelly
So were there leaks there?
- [80:21]
Neil Gorsuch
Well, every. There may well have been. I. I don't know, Megan. But they made serious efforts so that they could speak candidly with one another and find the places where they could agree. And. And James Madison said at the end of it all that he really doesn't think the Constitution would have ever happened otherwise. Interesting.
- [80:43]
Megyn Kelly
So you're not taking my bait on whether you were rattled by the leak.
- [80:48]
Neil Gorsuch
I'm going to give you the same answer, Megan. I think you have to have room for us to be able to write our drafts, to talk to one another, to deliberate privately and then balance that with transparency. And I think both are important in our line of work.
- [81:06]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And is, I mean, 99.99% of the time, respected by everyone. The justices and the clerks and everybody whose court staff, many of whom I know and think the world of. And if you are very, very lucky, then at the end of your life, you will have a farewell like our friend TJ Did. This is from the book again, it is the Heroes of 1776 by Justice Neil Gorsuch and Janie Nitze, his co author. And you write as follows about Jefferson and Adams. The two men who had devoted their lives to the cause of freedom died just hours apart on the same day. July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson's health had been declining for years, and by late June he could hardly rise from his bed. Yet his mind remained clear. Sensing his end was near, he penned a final letter declaring, all eyes are opened or opening to the rights of man. On July 3, Jefferson slipped in and out of sleep, waking briefly in the evening to whisper, is it the fourth? He drew his final breath a little past noon the following day. Oh, I mean, it's gotten me every time I've read it. Is there any, Is there anything that we could feel so pulled to, so tight to, so important to us in modern day American, Modern day America, Justice Gorsuch, that could bring that kind of importance to us? You know, I think there's a frustration. We want. We want something that big again in our lives.
- [82:44]
Neil Gorsuch
Those men fought and died and risked everything they had. And we tell the stories of their suffering too. Between the time they signed the Declaration and that end, you just read where they were hunted men, third of them lost their homes, many of them were imprisoned, had their wives imprisoned, their children in prison for those three great ideas in the Declaration. And we are a creedal nation, Megan. We are not founded around any religion or any particular ethnicity. What we share is a commitment to those three ideas. And I do think those three ideas have led men and women to fight and die for 250 years. And they are worth our time and our sacrifice and whatever little modest things we can give with what few skills God has given each of us to continue to carry that torch forward. Because if we don't, it will fall. Nothing about it is inevitable. It's up to each of us.
- [83:43]
Megyn Kelly
Amen. Beautifully said. All right, I only have a minute left with you in the time I have. Can we do a couple quick fun hits? Because this will be a lightning round where you can. You can decline to answer if you want, but I think you'll. You'll give it to us. Who's your closest friend on the court?
- [83:57]
Neil Gorsuch
Oh, no, I. I love each of them, but let me celebrate Clarence Thomas today just because, yes, he is now the second longest serving justice in the Supreme Court's history, and that is a great scholar of the Constitution and also a dear friend, as all of them are. And I just celebrate him today for his contributions to our country.
- [84:20]
Megyn Kelly
We join you in that 100%. Is it true you went to prep school with Justice Kavanaugh? Ah, so fun. What was the last movie that you saw that. That you would recommend?
- [84:30]
Neil Gorsuch
I enjoyed Hail Mary.
- [84:33]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, very nice. Okay.
- [84:34]
Neil Gorsuch
Now, though, I'm watching a streaming series about cold. It's a prison of war camp that the British love to escape from during World War II. I'm a big World War II buffalo.
- [84:43]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, that sounds perfect for you and your wife in particular. Do you read for pleasure, or are you so exhausted by the end of a day that you can't.
- [84:51]
Neil Gorsuch
Yes, I do read for pleasure.
- [84:54]
Megyn Kelly
What's your favorite genre?
- [84:55]
Neil Gorsuch
Oh, I love novels because I read a lot of nonfiction in my day job, and they speak to the human heart in a way that nonfiction often can't.
- [85:07]
Megyn Kelly
Do you go out to dinner in and around Washington, D.C. yes, absolutely.
- [85:11]
Neil Gorsuch
I've got a great life.
- [85:12]
Megyn Kelly
Like a normal person, you just make a reservation, you kind of show up. It's like you and Chief Justice Roberts and you sit there and get like, calamari.
- [85:22]
Neil Gorsuch
We live remarkably normal lives. I gotta tell you, Megan, it's. It's a pretty normal life. I ride my bike to work, I come home, I put on the barbecue and make burgers for my daughter and my wife and feed the dog.
- [85:35]
Megyn Kelly
Wow.
- [85:35]
Neil Gorsuch
You know, that's my life.
- [85:38]
Megyn Kelly
Wow. That's why you seem normal, because you actually are. And we're really lucky, really lucky that you've agreed to spend your life in public service as opposed to making tens of millions of dollars in private practice as you and all your brethren on the High Court could. Thanks for writing this book. Thanks for coming on and talking to our audience so openly. We really appreciate it.
- [85:56]
Neil Gorsuch
Megan, thank you very much. Very grateful. Wow.
- [86:00]
Megyn Kelly
All the best to you. Justice Neil Gorsuch, everybody. The book is Heroes of 1776, the story of the Declaration of Independence. It's in stores right now. Get a bunch of copies. You can give them out now through the rest of the year to celebrate our 250th. Wow. Great idea. Okay, we will be right back with some more news after this quick break. Paying 70, 80, 90amonth to Big Wireless for unlimited data is insanity. Especially when PureTalk is going to give you unlimited high speed data for just 34.99amonth. Unlimited high speed data at PureTalk used to start at $55 a month. But because Pure Talk is constantly pushing to give you more for less, you can now get unlimited high speed data for just under $35. So if you looked at Pure Talk before and did not make the move, check again. And if you're wondering is Pure Talks Network really as good as the overpriced Big Guy speaking, try it out for 30 days. With no contract and no cancellation fees, you have nothing to lose. Their US Customer Service team is standing by to help you switch in as little as 10 minutes. Just dial £250 and say Megyn Kelly to claim unlimited high speed data for just 34.99. What a savings. Again, dial £250 and say Megyn Kelly to switch to America's wireless company, Pure Talk. You won't be sorry you did. When it comes to supplements, there are two things that matter most. It has to work and it has to be something you can trust. Both are absolutely essential and that is why I want to tell you about Relief Factor. Relief Factor has been endorsed by hosts for over a decade. That's more than 10 years of trusted voices helping people get out of pain naturally. For many people dealing with inflammation and mobility issues, especially after injuries, it's been life changing. Better movement, less stiffness and a noticeable improvement in daily comfort. Now Relief Actor offers a Quick Start option and they actually lose money on this first offer. They do it so that you can try it for yourself and see how much it can improve your life. They know that you will wind up loving it. Relief Factor was created by a Vietnam combat veteran who became a doctor to help people heal drug free. What began as relief for his own patients became something he wanted to share with everyone. Try their three week quick start for just 19.95. Go to relieffactor.com or call 804 RELIEF to check it out. Let's see if you're next when it comes to getting out of pain. Hey, everyone, it's me, Megyn Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM. It's called the Megyn Ken Kelly Channel. And it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly show, you're gonna hear from people like Mark Halperin, link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily jasinsky, Jesse Kelly, RealClear Politics, and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111. And on the SiriusXM app, We go from Justice Neil Gorsuch to Blake Lively and J.P. morgan. And there's some very interesting news on Kim Kardashian. Legal news, that is. But I didn't have it in me to ask Justice Scorsius about it. You'll see why. See if I can get to it all. Well, I'll give you the quick Kim Kardashian headline just because it's quick. She's no longer going to be pursuing the bar exam that she failed last year. She tried to take the baby bar exam, which is basically what you take when you're not learning about the law from a law school. You're doing an apprenticeship like she was, and you take that after your first year of study. And she failed that three times and then I guess finally passed it and continued on and tried to take the real bar exam last year and failed that. And thank God almighty, she has now abandoned her goals of practicing law. So the bar exam did its job. The bar exam worked. It's meant to screen out people who have no business practicing law. And she is one of them. Okay, by the way, just a call back to November of 2025 when she posted a video about preparing for the bar. And in just this one, just this one little screen grab of her writing, she spelled dormant wrong. Like as in dormant commerce clause D O R M a n T. She spelled it door mint, M I n T. She spelled substantive due process wrong. She spelled substantive S u b S T a TIV substative. She spelled eerie doctrine wrong as an E R, I e. She spelled it E A R I E like your ear. I mean, this woman should not be anywhere near a courtroom. Sweetheart, you keep putting those silicon whatever things on your breasts with the points and going to the Met Gala. That is where you Belong. You do it very well. The line of skims is excellent, and you're very good at beauty. No one would ever take that away from you. Leave the lawyering to the smart people. Okay? Okay. Blake Lively. She. It's now come out. Went to the Met Gala without Ryan Reynolds because, quote, they both felt this moment should be hers, reports the Daily Mail. Here she is in her dress that looks like sherbet. It looks exactly like the two. The. The try offering of sherbet that you get. You know, like the. The purple, the orange and the pink. That's what she wore to the Met Gala. The Daily Mail goes on, once the settlement started to feel like a very real possibility, that's when she decided to go to the Met Gala. In her mind, if things worked out, it could be a bit of a victory lap, a way of showing she's still standing after everything and is ready to move forward. Oh, still standing after she tried to unjustly ruin a man's life. Good for her. Look at. So strong. Such a. Such a role model. She's done letting this court battle dictate her life and wants to get back to work and rebuild her career. Who let it dictate her life? She filed. She's the one who started this whole thing. She makes it sound like she was victimized. Being there gave her an ego boost. Oh, my God, what a small person. Because people who don't know you, who are trying to make a dime off of photographing you, say, Blake, Blake, Blake. I have bad news for you, Blake. They did it to me, too, when I was there. And trust me, I'm meaningless to them, too. And she loved that. She's still part of the conversation. I mean, if that's true, she is more oblivious than we know. Do you. Are you aware what part of the conversation you're in? The part about soulless grifters who try to get ahead in life by hurting others without any empathy or guilt or compunction about what they're doing to innocence. That's the part you're. You're in. They report that Ryan and Blake were always united during this, but we're not always on the same page. Reportedly, he has always wanted her to settle and move forward and that this has been bad for her and bad for their careers, both of them, and an enormous amount of stress for them both. And she wanted to keep going and keep going, apparently. They say this is according to an industry insider who understands he is so closely associated with her, Ryan Reynolds. And she has become toxic. So I'M sure he did not love that Ryan stopped wanting to talk about it. Apparently, according to the Daily Mail, he was sick of her droning on and on about it, and it really reverted to only listening mode. Ask yourself how this wound up in the Daily Mail. Who. Who wanted us to know that? Could it be Ryan? Honestly, they the report that at the gala, she made a point of going up to people she hadn't seen in a while. Really friendly with Beyonce, Rihanna, and Heidi Klum. The lawsuit turned her into somewhat of a pariah. They. They report, especially when they learned that Taylor Swift had cooled on her. The feeling is the event was her way of signaling she's back in the fold. She seemed genuinely relieved last night. Great. I hope you are. It's over. This piece is over. Now you have only to rescue your reputation from the gutter. The only way I see for you is having your husband produce your next movie. There's just no way. The next movie won't either be produced by him or a favor to him, because there's no audience for Blake Lively. There are, like, 10 woke women on the Upper west side of Manhattan, and that's it. You can't really have a movie career based on that. So I hope you enjoyed the Met gala. It's probably your last time for a while of feeling adored. By the way, they also report that her brand deals were very nervous with this whole thing. When. When the PR hits were being, you know, suffered by Blake, everyone was like, she's gonna have to fix this. People are turning on her. She's got a course correct. We've been spooked by her. She tried to blame that all on Justin, but it was really her own doing. Okay, J.P. morgan, there's an update in this bizarre case that we've all been covering. If you haven't seen last Thursday's episode with Adam Carolla, please go back. As I mentioned to you yesterday, we learned that he produced two allegedly independent affidavits from friends who claim to have seen this JP Morgan exec Lorna flirt with him. One claimed he saw her come out in the man's apartment naked and suggest that they have a threesome together. This is all strongly, strongly denied by Lorna Hajdini, the person being blamed for this man's weird problems, and by JP Morgan. Now, we've learned two things today that for a time, prosecutors, obviously, at this plaintiff's request, had opened a criminal investigation into these allegations. But guess what? They declined to pursue any charges due to a lack of evidence. I'm sorry People. But if he had all these nasty voicemails and these threatening text messages and two independent eyewitnesses who are totally credible, who backed him up. She came out naked and wanted a threesome. And I saw her fondling him in a way that made him uncomfortable. They'd be interested in this. JP Morgan would have been interested in this. And the police would have been interested in this. I don't know what's wrong with this gentleman, but it's something I told you yesterday that we learned via the New York Post that he said his father had died and he took a three month bereavement leave from JP Morgan, which was a lie. His father is alive and well, so clearly this is a serial fabulist and we have only to determine which portions of his tale are untrue. Is it all. Is it 100%? Did they have a relationship or an interlude that he blew up into this massive sexual harassment campaign? Is there a world in which it's all true and JP Morgan just decided to look the other way and so did the cops. Because she. He's claiming she roofied him and then gave him Viagra so that he could perform sexually and then raped him using that word. That would be rape. If she had sex with him while he was roofied by her, that would be rape. Clearly, the NYPD did not buy it. And nor do I. They now have to admit the lawyer tried to tell the Daily Mail, oh, as far as we know, that investigation is still open. And then when the DA's office was asked, they. They made clear the inquiry was closed after they found no evidence of wrongdoing. The Daily Mail is reporting. And even the lawyer had to come back and admit that is true. Now, today, just as we come to air, the Wall Street Journal adds to the reporting that JPMorgan Chase did offer this plaintiff, Chirayu Rana, $1 million to settle sexual assault and harassment claims brought by this man before he actually filed the lawsuit. Now, I'm sure you at home are thinking, that's a big old chunk of change for somebody who didn't do anything. But I would urge you to remember this is not like suing the Megyn Kelly Show. We don't have millions to spare, but J.P. morgan does. And so to them, the value of, like, nuisance value to make this nutcase go away and to preserve the reputation of what's by all account, a very respected, valued senior person at their bank. This Lorna Hajjdini. That. That's really not a big deal. A million dollars is Nothing. It's nothing to them. And also when you're dealing with a man who might be unwell, like, it looks like he's had several jobs over the past 10 years. He left JP Morgan last April and went to a new firm, I think someplace around last April. Went to a new firm. He didn't even last a year. He's already gone from that firm. He's been to at several other firms. The business with the dad and the bereavement leave. Where's the wife, by the way? He claims he was being harassed. You know, Anna raised that yesterday on set. Like, where's the wife? While he's allegedly claiming she kept going back to his apartment and insisting he service her and so on and so forth. I thought. I thought there was a wife in the picture. What does she say? She doesn't appear to be a persuasive witness if she has anything of value, because no one's believing these two or him. In any event, Wall Street Journal says they did offer to settle for a million bucks equivalent to less than two years of his compensation at the bank. He rejected it and asked for more money. In a statement, a JP Morgan spokesperson said, we did try to reach an agreement to avoid the time and expense of litigation and to support an employee who is being threatened with the very reputational harm now unfolding. We continue to believe these allegations have no merit. And new information raised as a result of the public filing only reinforces that conclusion. Don't forget, they earlier said she fully cooperated with the investigation. They did. Internally. Gave her phone, gave her emails, gave everything. He didn't. If he's such a righteous victim. Victim. Why didn't he give everything? Give your phone, Give it over. If you're a victim, what do you have to hide? Why wouldn't you cooperate? Lawyers for Rana and JP Morgan started weeks of mediation talks in early 2026, according to his his claims. In March, they offered him a million dollars to settle his claims. Rana did not accept or reject it in early April. So now we're getting closer to when he filed. He was let go from his new job. Let go at Briegel Sage Mount. The firm did not respond to a request for comment, but has previously said he was no longer an employee as of April 2nd. In April, Rana's lawyers, that's the plaintiff, countered the $1 million offer with a demand for 11.75 million. Okay, that's crazy talk. Last week, Ronna's lawyers filed a lawsuit in New York State Court. Yes, Jane Doe. The lawyers now saying that the original lawsuit was not withdrawn. After filing, the court clerk informed us that the suit required review and sign off for the from the judge before it could be filed under a pseudonym. John Doe. Upon signature by the judge, the suit was formally filed under a pseudonym. I mean, what's the point? Now everybody knows his name. And by the way, we should. We should know his name. It's crazy how we afford this cloak of anonymity to anybody claiming that they were assaulted sexually or, God forbid, a rape victim. It's not that I have no empathy for them. It's just. It's just not fair. It's like if the defendant's gonna have his or her name dragged through the mud as this poor Lorna Hajjdini is, the plaintiff ought to be willing to be identified and to stand behind his or her allegations. Through a JP Morgan spokesperson, Hajjdini's lawyers. Lawyers say she continues to categorically deny these allegations. She never dated this individual, never had a sexual or romantic encounter with him of any kind, and never gave him any drugs. She maintains that his false claims are entirely fabricated and tarnishing her reputation. That's actually a much stronger statement than what we knew of earlier. That is categorical. Categorically denies the allegations, never dated him, never had a sexual or romantic encounter with him of any kind, never gave him any drugs. That's a good denial. We shall see as this weird, weird case continues to play out. Thank you. Thank you all so much for joining us. It's been quite a show, hasn't it? I don't even remember. Like, we started with Crazy Katie Porter went to Iran. Justice Gorsuch, Kim Kardashian, JP Morgan, Blake Lively. Just a typical day here on the MK Show. Thanks for being along for the ride. Tucker Carlson's My guest tomorrow. That'll be fun, too. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.
- [102:53]
Saurabh Amari
Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section
- [102:59]
Megyn Kelly
of a resume that you might throw away the perfect hire skills first.
- [103:03]
Sean Davis
Hiring helps you see talent others miss.
- [103:05]
Saurabh Amari
Like more than 70 million stars skilled
- [103:07]
Megyn Kelly
through alternative routes, let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring managers who start with skills
- [103:14]
Saurabh Amari
are 60% more likely to find a successful hire.
- [103:17]
Neil Gorsuch
Hire skills first.
- [103:18]
Saurabh Amari
Learn why@tearthepaperceiling.org brought to you by OpportunityAtWork
- [103:22]
Megyn Kelly
and the Ad Council.