Andrew Klavan (4:17)

Thank you very much. Good to see you.

Megyn Kelly (4:19)

Great to see you, too. All right, so this story out of Charlotte, North Carolina, grows. It grows only because the mainstream media has been dragged kicking and screaming over to covering it. You know, only because of shows like yours and mine were they forced to, to acknowledge this young, beautiful, innocent, white, blonde, beautiful Ukrainian woman was killed, stabbed to death out of nowhere by a black man from Charlotte, North Carolina, who seems deeply disturbed in multiple ways and had been, as they say, a sophisticated consumer of the criminal justice system prior to plunging his, his pocket knife into poor Irina's neck on a train, on a public train. An extraordinary display on CNN last night on that Abby Phillips show discussing this story. And she had on, among others, my pal Arthur Rallah was there. She had on Van Jones. And Van Jones is completely gone. I mean, the, his take on this story is insane. And he knows better. He knows better. He didn't do his homework, I'm going to guess. But where they took this commentary was deeply ignorant and of course insulting and played the race card against the people who are saying, hey, this would be very different if the races were reversed of the perp and the victim. First I want to update the audience from this point. Yesterday on the murderer accused decarlos Brown who on this train after he plunged the knife into Irena got up and walked down a couple car, train cars and then off the train and as he had the knife, as he was dripping blood and now we have heard and we heard this yesterday prior to that CNN show late last night. The audio of what he says, listen carefully. We've listened to it many times. We've sped it up, we've slowed it down, we've turned up the volume and what he is saying is I got that white girl. I got that white girl here. It is so very disturbing. He's disturbed and obviously is mentioning race by the way, on that front we have a belief, a well founded belief that the FBI may be stepping into this case with an announcement shortly. So stay tuned for that. It could happen during this show. All right. So with all that buildup I'm going to take you to Abby Phillips show. And here's Abby Phillip who never misses an opportunity to make her segments or her show about race and how oppressed black people like Abby Philip who makes millions of dollars presumably are. Here she is in South 3. Certain people have been looking for an opportunity to find a case like this to make a point like this. I want to play. This is Charlie Kirk. Why he says this hasn't gotten a lot of attention.

Andrew Klavan (7:44)

A white Ukrainian refugee with was murdered.

Kevin Hines (7:47)

Just because she was white.

Andrew Klavan (7:48)

Everybody knows that. Obviously if a random white person simply.

Kevin Hines (7:52)

Walked up to and stabbed a nice.

Andrew Klavan (7:54)

Law abiding black person for no reason, it would be an apocalyptically huge national story used to impose national sweeping political changes on the whole country. Instead, Megan Basham no one seems to care when a white woman gets stabbed to the death.

Megyn Kelly (8:10)

Wow, he said white a lot. They've been looking for opportunities to make this some sort of like reciprocal George Floyd situation. And that's the part that I think he's almost giving away the game. And it's sad to see a lot of people going along with it. It's sad. She's sad. She's super sad. And here's the follow up, hold your thought from van Jones in Sat 4.

Kevin Hines (8:36)

We don't know why that man did what he did.

Andrew Klavan (8:39)

And for Charlie Kirk, to say we.

Megyn Kelly (8:40)

Know he did it because she's white.

Kevin Hines (8:42)

When there's no evidence of that is just amazing.

Andrew Klavan (8:45)

Race, race mongering, hate mongering.

Megyn Kelly (8:48)

It's wrong. Then he says that if something like that had happened the other way, there.

Kevin Hines (8:52)

Would be sweeping changes imposed on society.

Megyn Kelly (8:55)

Where is the George Floyd Policing Act?

Andrew Klavan (8:58)

It didn't pass.

Megyn Kelly (8:59)

You mentioned the thing about cashless bail.

Andrew Klavan (9:01)

I think this is a big challenge that we have.

Kevin Hines (9:04)

Would you have felt better if there had been cash bail and the mom.

Megyn Kelly (9:08)

Had come and put down $1,000 to let him out?

Andrew Klavan (9:11)

It's not about cashless bail or no cashless bail. It's about the fact that we don't.

Megyn Kelly (9:14)

Know how to deal with people who.

Kevin Hines (9:16)

Are hurting in the way this man was hurting.

Andrew Klavan (9:18)

Hurt people. Hurt people.

Megyn Kelly (9:20)

Oh, my God. Hurt people. Hurt people. That's okay. Just, just two quick things. The mom would, the, the mom would have gotten him out of jail. Like if, if there'd been like, bail. We don't know that she wouldn't have gone down and bailed him out. Yes, we do. Because the mom wanted him locked up. Van needs to do his homework. He did not do his homework before he went on that show because I do not believe he wants to appear willfully ignorant. The mother was upset that the system continued turning her son back out into the community. She didn't know what to do with him and had run out of options. So I believe the mother would not have bailed him out had there been cash bail. And the business about where's the George Floyd policing? Like, nothing changed in this country after George Floyd. Andrew. Like we're just going to pretend that that wasn't some watershed moment where the left lost its ever loving mind and forced all of corporate America and sports America and educational America to bend the knee on this racial, this race essentialism which has still infested virtually every area of our lives and how we live to this day. We're only starting to unravel it thanks to the Trump election this past November. Your thoughts on it all?

Andrew Klavan (10:34)

Well, I think this is a huge story. Leaving aside the details of the story itself, the story that I think is just basically is an example of our time and what this moment in time is about is the question of whether a news media that is corrupt to its core is going to continue to be allowed to distort the facts and distort the state of the country. Or, or have we finally amassed enough power in independent media to turn that story around? And what I mean by that is this, there are two kinds of news stories. Essentially there's a news story that's sensational. We're all interested if a beautiful blonde movie star gets killed by her famous athlete husband. That's a big story. Simply because we are made as human beings to pay attention to stories like that. In the same way we're made to tell stories about kings in Shakespeare to represent something about the human race. We, we attach our identities to famous, beautiful people. That is just a human fact. That's not a very important story. It's just a sensational story and an appealing story. The other kind of story are stories that are examples, indicative of what is going on. So if 50 people are slaughtered on a single night or shot in a single night in Chicago, that's an important news story because it indicates what's going on in Chicago and in cities that are run in a similar way to Chicago. This corrupt media has done everything it can to make the exception the rule and the rule the exception to cover a George Floyd story, which is an anomalous story, a story of a man who died in police custody. Maybe, maybe we're not even sure of this. Even though a court decided it was true. We're not sure that he died because of the actions of a police officer. We certainly can say that the police officer didn't act out of bigotry because he was never charged with a hate crime. So we know that was never an issue, but we have no idea why that happened. But it's a very rare thing that happens. What is not a rare thing is black people committing crime. And they don't commit crimes because they're black. The obsession with race is on the left, it's not on the right. What we're saying is cover everything as what it is. If you want to cover, you know, the beautiful actress getting killed by the athlete, that's fine, but don't tell us that's the state of athletics and movie stars, cuz it's not. But if you're going to cover the story of a black man attacking a white person, that is a more likely scenario. And if you want to really cover murder, which is almost all male against male, and a lot of it, a very strong disproportion of it, black against black, then cover that because that's going to tell you something about the state of the country. What the left does continually is it raises up the exception as the rule. And it does it because of hostility toward this country and because of what this country stands for, which is the sovereignty of the people, the government of ordinance, ordinary people running elites. And what the media represents in their corruption is this sliver of elites who set opinions and tell us what we're supposed to think and do. You're absolutely right, George Floyd. It didn't change anything. It simply exploded a narrative that had been in the. In the pipeline for decades up until that moment. And they seized upon it in a moment of crisis, the moment of the pandemic, and caused and encouraged riots and then told us the riots weren't happening. And if they were happening, we deserved it moved to, you know, defund the police, which of course is a horrible thing to do to the poor and to people living in tough black neighborhoods where they need the police more than anybody else. And to explain to us that we systemically are racist, which is a complete nonsense. We are. No, we were the least. I've lived in different countries. This is the least racist country I have ever been in. It's not that human beings aren't racist. They are. But this is the least racist systemically country I've ever been in. And so what we are doing now is we have forced them to cover a story that would have been covered. We know for a fact it would have been covered 0%. And we know that because until X and you and all of us started chiming in and saying, wait a minute, why isn't this a big story? Because it is both sensational and indicative. Why isn't it. We have forced them now to cover it in the kind of crazy way that CNN was covering it. We're not talking about race. We're talking about the fact that they are excluding this from the news because of race.

Megyn Kelly (14:55)

That's exactly right.

Andrew Klavan (14:57)

This is a story of human evil and it's a story of the fact that there is a culture, there is a black culture that has been created by the left, it was encouraged by the left of fatherless children, children of not being responsible of cashless bail, which is a simply insane policy that has basically enculturated this kind of person to crime. And then they say, oh, we're not allowed to pay attention to that crime because it's because they're black. It's not because they're black. It's because the left is the left. And the left has dominated black society, which also, Megan, is a question of elites dictating to the poor. You know, this is. For instance, when you talk about fatherless children. It is one thing for the New York Times to tell its people in Park Slope that wouldn't it be fun to try a throuple. Wouldn't it be great to have a child out of wedlock? What do you need a father for? Wouldn't it be just as good if gay people adopted? Wouldn't it just be just as good if we got rid of the family? That's going to be fine. If you have the money to pay for the rehab your fatherless child is going to end up in. If you don't have the money to pay for that rehab and if you don't have the money to buy people off so they don't pay attention to his criminality and his bad behavior, your son is gonna end up in prison and then you're gonna cry, oh, it's because of black people. It's not because of black people. It's because of leftist policies. You know, Malcolm Gladwell the other day came out and said that he had been cowed into saying that men could play in women's sports. I stopped really reading Malcolm Gladwell many years ago now because he wrote a book about David and Goliath in which he said that putting people in prison was bad because it took males out of poor black neighborhoods so they had no male role models. And in fact it increased crime. I was reading that and I thought, except it didn't. Putting criminals in prison cut crime. The crime between now and and the 80s when leftist policies were in play, when leftist policies were dominant, it has plummeted because of Giuliani style policing. That does not make any excuses for anybody. Everybody who commits a crime has to go to jail. And that's the thing. When Gladwell said that, I thought, well, he's just not telling the truth. I'm sorry. The facts are facts and the numbers show that putting people in prison, acting as if criminals are criminals, punishing criminals for the crimes they commit brings crime down. It gets the criminal off the street and it tells the next guy maybe not to commit that crime if you don't want to wind up spending your life.

Megyn Kelly (17:31)

That's so interesting. You know, he's been known as like the data guy. He just takes you where the data goes. He does his study on that. What are people doing with the, with the hockey teams in terms of starting their sons in school at a certain day to make them older. And he goes back and does another study, study, data driven study on it. So you kind of figured out early on maybe he's not fully data driven, maybe he's agenda driven. And that's the point from which he starts, which is basically what he admitted, I go back and forth on his admission from last week where he said for the listening audience that didn't hear us play it a couple days ago, he admitted that he moderated a panel a couple years ago and that he intentionally misled on his own feelings when he suggested boys should be allowed to play in girl sports if they say they're trans. And now he's saying that wasn't. He hasn't turned since then. He hasn't like come to see the error of his ways, that he was actively lying about his opinion at the time in order to not be, you know, ostracized by the crowd, to be, to be loved. And I'm of two minds of it because on the one hand it isn't, it's different. I mean, like, I've talked many times about some of the segments I did on NBC, which I deeply regret, but I did them like we had a bunch of so called trans children, which is not a thing on the show in a celebratory way. And we talked about not bullying and being loving and accepting. And I say to the audience, and I think my audience knows me at this point, that was done truly out of just kindness in my heart and a willingness to eradicate bullying of children and, and without an understanding at the time of how we were all being manipulated and misled by activists who do not have the well being of children at all in the forefront of their heads. So I see that as very different from what Malcolm Gladwell did. He lied, yet he was too cowardly to admit how he actually feels. And so I feel like, okay, so he does deserve some shaming because he was cowardly. Now he's saying it himself though, which leads me to the second piece of mind on it, which is, shouldn't we encourage that? Like, who else is going to come out and admit the folly of their ways? Even if it was the folly was making a terrible, dishonest choice. If we shame all the people who come out and admit that they did.

Andrew Klavan (19:48)

This crap, normally I would agree with you. Normally I would say if somebody comes out and says, you know, I was a coward, I failed, I tried, because let's face it, that happens to everybody. And what the left does is when you apologize, they take it as blood in the water. You apologize and they destroy you. It's only the people who stand up to the left and spit in their eye, even when they're wrong, who survive the kind of shaming and canceling that the left brings about. So normally I would say, yes, Good for Malcolm Gladwell for admitting it. He failed. He had a moment of failure. The problem is, is that I've read a bunch of his books, and they're almost all like this. And he was actually part of the system that shamed him, that cowed him. He too, accused people of racism. They disagreed. That was the system that he was in. So he basically got bit by his own alligator. And it's a little bit hard to feel sorry for him for that. You know, it is one thing if, you know, a person comes out, maybe he's a comedian or whatever, and he. He says something stupid and then says, you know what? I got intimidated. I'm all for forgiveness there. I think you have to forgive people for failures or else we're all in big trouble because we all fail. But. But he was part of that system. And. And a lot of what he did, and I always felt this about his books. A lot of what he did was, you know, these lies, damn lies and statistics. And even though he brought the statistics, just like Steven Pinker, a lot of statistics did not say what he said they said. And so this, to me is so important. You know, I've been talking now for a long time about narrative. And we all use the word narrative, but it is a real thing. It is a real thing. What the going narrative is. And the example I always use is George Washington, an absolute hero of liberty, holding slaves and not understanding why the slaves didn't work on his farm as hard as he did. He literally didn't understand it. That's how powerful narrative is. That is how it sweeps all of us away. I believe that that's true today of abortion. I believe women have abortions without understanding what it is they're doing. And that's why I don't think they should be penalized. I don't think think necessarily transgender people should be penalized as much as the people who tell them there are such things as mothering persons or front holes or whatever it is they tell them. This is induced chest feeding. Chest feeding. This is induced mental illness. In the case of black people, I think their culture has been gutted by the left. I think it's been sexually gutted. I think it's been societally gutted. I think the fact that when somebody, you know, dresses like. Like a punk and a thug, we don't say, hey, there's a way we dress in our society that telegraphs. It's a language. It telegraphs to each other that we're decent people. You know, Megan, when I used to have to go to work at 3 in the morning because I was working in news. I used to actually reroute myself sometimes around a disco where I knew there'd be people out in the middle of the morning. And it happened to be a black disco, but it was a black disco for people who had money. And it was, you know, you'd see good looking guys, well dressed, with good looking women. You knew they weren't gonna mug you. And not only that, I knew that if I was mugged, they would come to my help, they would come to my aid. It's not about race. It's so much about culture. And I think because the left has polluted a race with a bad culture, they can mix those things up. But it's them who did it. It's not us.

Megyn Kelly (23:00)

Totally agree. For the listening audience, we did pull over the Gladwell sound just so you don't stay confused. If you are. Here's, here's the clip we've been discussing.

Andrew Klavan (23:09)

If we did a replay of that exact panel at the Sloan conference this coming march, it runs in exactly the opposite direction and it would be, I suspect, near unanimity in the room that trans athletes have no place in the female category. I don't think there's any question. I just think it was a strange, I mean, I felt, I mean, I was the reason I'm ashamed of my performance of that panel because I share your position 100% and I was cowed.

Megyn Kelly (23:47)

I will say, to your point, I saw a long piece by Douglas Murray who posted who's debated Gladwell and he did not have a lot of charity for Gladwell. He said a lot of what you just said, suggesting that Gladwell is a dishonest debater and had, you know, wrongfully turned alleged facts against Murray about things he had said, which he hadn't and so on. Like, he also had absolutely no quarter for him. And there was somebody else online who I follow on Twitter. I'm trying to remember who it was who had a similar reaction. So I, the people I follow have like almost it was Taibi, Matt Taibbi who like uniformly were like, no apology not accepted because they don't believe he's coming in good faith. I don't know. I don't know Gladwell very well. He's been on the show. But this is something I'd love to discuss with him and I'd raise those other issues too, just to see what he has to say. Maybe we will ask him on. Okay, back to the story in North Carolina and hat tip to Andy Ngo, who, That's the person from whom I learned that this perpetrator was walking on the train saying, I got that white girl, got that white girl. I'm gonna guess Brian Stelter. And Van Jones may stupidly not follow Andy, which is really dumb because he's one of the best ex follows you can find. He's been on the show before. And here is Brian Stelter with his take on what's really going on here. Not on that late late night show, but on a different segment on CNN yesterday.

Andrew Klavan (25:13)

So two, really, over the weekend, Elon Musk, Charlie Kirk, other Trump aligned figures. Satan succeeded in making this senseless death a symbol of big city crime. We heard President Trump asked about it yesterday when he was heading home from New York City. He didn't seem to know much about it. He said he would get briefed.

Kevin Hines (25:31)

And then today, Trump did know all about it.

Andrew Klavan (25:33)

That's exactly what has happened here. This story has trickled up from so from local news to social media and now to the President's attention.

Kevin Hines (25:40)

And it's being used, as you said.

Andrew Klavan (25:41)

Brianna, as a political symbol with Maga media calling for more forceful punishments and more incarceration. I have to say some of the.

Kevin Hines (25:48)

Replies to Musk, some of the comments.

Andrew Klavan (25:50)

Around this story are baldly racist, stoking fear of African Americans because this man attacked a white woman.

Kevin Hines (25:57)

The open racism on sites like X Today, it's eye popping.

Andrew Klavan (26:01)

But there are also legitimate questions about this so called career criminal, someone who.

Kevin Hines (26:06)

Had been a repeat offender. And those questions, I hope they're not.

Andrew Klavan (26:09)

Lost amid all of the cesspool kind of comments on social media.

Megyn Kelly (26:13)

All right, first, first of all, Andrew, this is, it's a lie. Okay? We went back and looked at Elon's post and just actually started looking at the comments just to see is it a cesspool of racist comments? It wasn't, not at all. Most of them had stats about black on white crime. That's, that's what dominated the comments by Elon's followers. So I'm not exactly sure what Stelter is referring to, but he may be employing a trick that the left loves to employ. And I mean it. Everybody from Meghan Markle to the CNN anchors, you see one or two bad tweets and you make that the narrative. You know, you can pluck. Give me a break. You could go to anybody's X feed or Instagram feed or any feed and find one or two comments that are nasty or ignorant or what have you and, and try to blow that up into your own personal narrator. I was attacked. I was, I was under withering attack. That's like, okay, two people said something inappropriate. Grow up. And I guarantee you that's what he's doing there. Because the left loves the narrative of it's only the racists who are responding to this hideous crime and it's the racists who want to make this about black on white crime. The truth is, as you know, the vast majority of Americans watching these crimes, and there have been many of them over the past five to 10 years that we've seen on camera, are very reluctant to mention the races at all. Very few want to say, gee, I'm seeing a pattern of black people beating the hell out of white people because I'm not a racist and I don't impugn behavior to the masses that I've seen from a few. That's, that's the instinct of most Americans. But the truth is that the, the left injects race in so many of these crimes and instances that when it happens so obviously in the other direction and, and they don't even cover the crime. They don't cover it by not mentioning the race. They don't cover it at all. Of course we're going to stand up and say, hmm, gee, A, I see a pattern and B, I see a pattern in your media behavior that compels me to point out the dynamic that you seem to be willfully omitting.

Andrew Klavan (28:27)

Yeah, it's. Well, it's not only true, as you say, that if 500,000 conservatives get together and one of them is wearing a swast sticker because he's a Nazi, that's the guy they fought, that's the guy in the picture. That is every single time, that is the guy in the picture. So they always do that and smear us in that way. But the other thing is this, and I think this is part of the intention, it's part of the system and it works really well for them, is that if you tell people they can't see what they see, you are encouraging racism, not snuffing it out. If you tell people, you, if you tell a woman that she shouldn't be more nervous when a black guy in a hoodie gets in an elevator with her than she is when a businessman in a suit gets in the elevator with her, eventually she is going to become a racist. She's gonna say, well, I don't wanna say this cuz everybody's gonna yell at me, but I notice it's the Black guys who make me afraid. You know, this is the argument I have. Listen, I know people who are genuine bigots, and I sometimes say to them, you know, I don't think you're seeing this, right? And they say, I don't care. I don't care. All I know is I've been mugged three times, and every time it was by a black guy. And I'm not going to be silenced about that. When you silence people, you make them angry. They stop thinking straight and they start saying, you know, things that can, in fact, be hateful. Listen, I once talked to a DA who was as leftist as far to be a prosecutor, who's as far left as possible to be. And she sat there with me and she described what each race was, what kind of crimes each race commits. You know, so, you know, if you find a Jewish guy, he's going to commit a. You know, if he's a criminal, he's going to commit a financial crime. A black guy is going to commit a street crime. And she went on and she was talking about, like, Latvians. I mean, she had the whole thing laid out. That's just part of culture. That's the way culture works. It isolates people, and it isolates people according to the ways that people isolate themselves, which are race and money and class and all kinds of different things. And so that we're not supposed to mention, this makes the racists. It gives the racists credibility. You know, when a Nick Fuentes comes out and says, oh, you know, nobody ever talks about the blacks, but the blacks do this and that. And people I know, young people, they sit and listen to him and go, you know, that's true. Nobody ever mentions that. But there's some truth to that. And it gives him credibility, which he doesn't deserve. If you let people speak openly and discuss things openly and stop calling them damn names every time they say something that doesn't adhere to your point of view, you will get to the truth eventually, or you'll get closer to it than we are. Now, listen, the reason this moment is so important, and I don't mean in any way to minimize the actual crime of that beautiful young woman who's escaping from Ukraine of all places, and gets killed on a light rail. I mean, I don't mean to minimize the details of that crime, but in terms of the bigger story, it is this fight that we are in, and this is a death fight, because they don't want to lose this power. This is the power with which they have run the country. For 50 years. This is the time when we are going to find out if we can take the narrative back because we're right. That's the reason. If we take it back because we're hateful, if we take it back because we're just angry, then I think we're going to lose it eventually because that's not the way Americans want to live. But if we take it back because what we are saying is, is true, the guy did kill her because she was white. But more importantly, this is a much more likely crime to happen than the death of George Floyd, if the death of George Floyd was a crime at all. And so they, they absolutely manufactured nationwide riots around an anomaly, an exception to the rule. But they don't want us to point out that the rule is the rule and talk about those, those things that, that are indicative of how this country is run, how this country's culture fails people and how the left has failed in building those cultures. That's what they're trying to escape. That's the power they're trying to hold onto and that's the power we're trying to take away from them. Because they shouldn't have it. They shouldn't have it. They're in the wrong. They're corrupt. And they have done great damage to this country. More damage by having the control of the media and the academies than any other in any other way. And that's why they hate Donald Trump so much, because he knows it and he does something about it.

Megyn Kelly (32:30)

Exactly right. So I'm looking at the update yesterday. We told the team no one had covered it. I mean, virtually nobody.

Andrew Klavan (32:38)

Zero.

Megyn Kelly (32:38)

I don't. It's not. Virtually no one had covered it in the mainstream media at all. And now the update today. New York times as a 4pm Monday, nothing. NPR as at 4pm Monday, Nothing. CNN posted first article at 3pm Monday. Washington Post reposted an Associated Press article at 5pm The Associated Press posted nothing until 4pm Monday. This all blame, this all broke over the weekend. They had had 48 hours by this point to get on the story. They, they wouldn't because they viewed it as a Charlie Kirk story or a MAGA story. You have, let's see. Oh, on Monday morning, only CBS this Morning ran a story. Nothing from the Today show. Nothing from Good Morning America. Not interested whatsoever. And then Politico drops an article which does not mention that the defendant is black and that Zarutska is white and includes no photo. No photo of either the perpetrator or the victim. Includes only A photo, photo of Donald Trump. You cannot make this crap up. So they, and, and by the way, you don't have to be a journalist to understand that I'm just going to get very frank with you about commercial incentives when you have a girl this beautiful, this stunningly beautiful girl in any other circumstance. Politico, ap, Washington Post, New York. All of them would be running a huge photograph of her because beautiful people attract attention whether they're victims or not. And they understand that the commercial incentive would be to stop and look at this person and say what's going on around her. And for Politico not to include her picture tells us everything we need to know. They didn't want the narrative to be pushed out there that it's a white victim and a black perpetrator because they believe that's going to somehow endanger black lives. That's what they're, that's what their take will be. Just like we've heard from people like at the New York Times and elsewhere that just discussing this kind of thing endangers black bodies. We've heard before. And so we have no choice but to drag them to the story, kicking and screaming. I want to stay on CNN for one second. Right before the weekend this came up, they did an article. I pulled it. I didn't actually get to this, but I pulled this on. Of course, you know, CNN is very much against the ICE cleanup of the illegal problem created by Joe Biden. They think ICE are the bad guys, not the illegals that Tom Homan is arresting and deporting. And they did a piece ripping on Kristi Noem and DHS and ice. And it is described as these are the community pillars being detained by ice. Well, I didn't get past the first pillar before my jaw dropped. Andrew Milton Guamariga, Guamari gra. Is known to many in Port Chester, New York, as a family man, says cnn, who made a living as a marble installer and a volunteer with a local fire department. But that life was ripped away from the man earlier this month when U.S. immigration and Customs Enforcement officers arrested him as he was leaving his home to go to work. He wanted to go to college and study. I to I t. He had worked for 20 years as a local marble installer. He immigrated to the US From Ecuador, but was uncertain how long ago. Okay, he immigrated illegally. He was here illegally. They make it sound like, you know, he came over, you know, right under the Statue of Liberty with a, with an invitation. As it turns out, their pillar of the community was dhs. Says convicted not once, not twice, but three times of dwi. Not even dui, which is a little less alcohol in your system, but the full DWI. His criminal history says DHS includes three DWIs. This serial drunk driver is a public safety threat to innocent Americans. They like this is not a pillar. This is what CNN wants us to believe is a pillar. Andrew and when you look at who wrote the story and this is right on Brand, the senior writer for CNN's Race and Equality team wrote it. The person's name is Nikel Terry Ellis. It's a woman. Per her bio on the website. She joined CNN in November 2020. Much of her work focuses on the intersection. Already you know where we're going, just the use of that word intersection of race and politics, education, health, equity and the advancement of women of color. She served as national correspondent for USA Today, which is that tells you a lot too. Covering race, inequality and activism. She led much of the newspaper's coverage of the deaths of Ahmaud Arbery, George Floyd and Rashard Brooks and the BLM protests that erupted across America and so on and so forth. And this whole write up is about how amazing all these illegals are that Tom Holman's getting rid of these illegals who have committed other crimes because he's starting with the worst first. That's a pillar. 3 DWI is endangering your kids and mine and God knows how many others. But we're supposed to hold on to him because I guess he then did some volunteer work for the fire department.

Andrew Klavan (38:13)

You know I'm very hard boiled about this. You cannot just open the borders and let people come flooding in as they did. They now think there may be as many as 20 million illegal people. But then as we deport them, tell me one story at a time. Suddenly I have to look at this mass of people came over and I have to parse each one of them and find out what his personal story is. I want them all gone. I want every illegal out of the country and I want them to self depend support if possible. I think that companies that hire them should be penalized. I want them gone. I want people. Immigration is a great thing in this country. It is part of this country and one of the things I love about this country, I love that it's a multi ethnic country. I am not one of these people who's afraid of black people coming over or anything like that or some great replacement. I don't care who is here as long as they come in legally and want this country and love this country. If they are willing to assimilate and become Americans, they're okay with me. That is my brother. But the fact that you open the border and let these people come marching in completely unvetted and then when we go, when we want them to leave, you suddenly vet them. No, I'm sorry, that system doesn't work for me because we looking at England, you know, this is one of the things, if you read about England in the left wing press, what's happening in England, it's like, oh, once again, it's, oh, these maga, these horrible maga people, people are trying to make a big deal out of England as if, as if people were being arrested for mean tweets but let go for rape. That's what's happening in England. And it's happening because they let all these people, mostly from Muslim countries come in that they don't love Britain, they don't love the West. They want to transform Britain into a Muslim country. They treat women like garbage and the women of Britain are now all unsafe and they don't want us to notice that that's what will happen here. The only reason it hasn't happened here is we're a much, much bigger country and can absorb more people. Britain's the size of Oregon, so it's not going to be able to absorb the kinds of people they, the numbers of people they've let in. And so I've just been hardened about this. I just think, no, you let 20 million people come flooding in. I'm not going to look at each one of them going out, get them out. That's, that's what I want. I want people here legally. Yeah.

Megyn Kelly (40:19)

On the subject of crime, Trump just got a favorable ruling from the Supreme Court on the ice raids out in California as we try to deport these illegals who are committing other crimes as well. So they had tried to stop it and a lower court had ruled, well, you can't use, if you're trying to, you know, find out where the illegals are, you can't consider their race. You can't consider the fact that they don't speak English. When you're trying to figure out where to go find them, you can't consider that they work as a day laborer in like construction or agriculture. All of that is illegal to consider, which is just ridiculous. And they've been overruled now by the US Supreme Court, who has said only Justice Kavanaugh issued a concurring opinion. It was, it was an unsigned ruling, but he offered some rationale saying, no, you can consider all those things. It can't be the only thing. You can't be like, he's brown. I therefore suspect he's an illegal, but it can be part of the picture that you consider when coming to your conclusion. So that's a ruling in favor of sanity. And Trump now is starting illegal pickups in Illinois. He has reportedly sent some faction of ICE to Chicago and the surrounding area, though it's. We're just getting initial reports. So that's different from sending the National Guard and even sending the National Guard in support of ice. If, if. What Trump cannot do is send the National Guard, just period, to go keep crime down. That, that he can't do without the invitation of a governor, which I've said. I love it because Gavin Newsom repeated or retweeted me saying it, me saying that. And I stand by what I said. I'd love for Gavin Newsom to retweet the things I say about him. If he's that bold and he really is into MK commentary, go for it. Let's do that. I had a lot of messages for you. You should retweet some now that you really respect my opinion. Okay. But on the subject of crime and Gavin Newsom, in San Jose on Friday, there is surveillance video that we can show you of this car ramming into a jewelry store. Nearly 20 masked suspects swarm this door and ransack it. So you see the, for the listening audience, you see this car ram right through the glass front of the store. And here come the people. I mean, it's like a gang. Most are dressed in dark colors, they have masks on. You see an elderly man behind the counter trying to defend himself. He has absolutely no chance. They shove him to the ground. I mean, this is an 88 year old. We later find out it's an 88 year old. It's called San Jose. It's his San Jose jewelry store. And this is 2pm in the middle of the day. So the man had a stroke as a result of all this. He was terrified. He was physically injured. And you've got the San Jose Democratic mayor coming out to say, this is appalling. Watching the senior get assaulted, made by blood boil. These people need to face the harshest possible consequences for their actions. And what did Gavin, Gavin Newsom say? Nothing. Nothing. We've seen him say absolutely nothing about it. Andrew. He did write on X on Saturday. The President of the United States is deploying the military into US Streets and using our troops like political pawns. Do not allow yourself to become numb to this. It'd be great. And that was the day he was tweeting about me, too. I'd love if he would tweet about the constituents in his own state and do something to try to protect them as our elderly. And still, part of the greatest generation is getting knocked to their, you know, off their feet, cause strokes, losing their life savings and their life's work in the form of this jewelry store. Like when you have 20 criminals Masked bursting into your jewelry stores in the middle of the day, you have a crime problem. Gavin, you should be thrilled to receive President Trump's offer of help, but instead, he's more worried about his political career.

Andrew Klavan (44:17)

You know, this is. First of all, obviously, the jeweler should be prosecuted for putting his store where those people were trying to drive. I think that they. That that would be California law. Perfect example of California law. But, you know, this is another way that the left manipulates the culture in the most minute possible way is by changing the language so that it doesn't represent the truth. They use terms like racial profiling. Racial profiling should be called police work. One of the things that police have, which is what makes them so useful to us, is they have experience. They can look at a situation and say, you know, that guy over there is suspicious. They may get it wrong, but they have to have the right to go over and question that guy. I mean, this is how Giuliani and his police commissioners cleaned up the streets. And the New York Times went on an absolute rampage against what they called stop and frisk, which was stopping a guy who they thought had a gun because they said it wasn't fair to black people. You know, I thought it wasn't fair to black people illegally carrying guns. But, you know, you talk to. And cops know when a guy is carrying a gun, they can tell by the way his clothes hang. They can tell by the way he walks. They can tell by all kinds of things, including. Including what the guy looks like, which would include the color of his skin at times. You know, this is the thing. If you had an app on your phone that could read criminal intent, if I could hold it up and it would show criminal intent, do you think the cop would be looking at the person? Do you think he'd be looking at the color of his skin? No, he'd be looking at the app. He's just trying to keep people safe. And he does that by using his experience, using the fantastic app that is the human mind, and seeing where the crime is by crippling the police and then going on to cripple the public, by saying, you cannot see what is happening in front of your eyes, you are handing over our cities to these criminals. And I have to say about Trump, I agree with you that Trump should not just go randomly sending the army into cities that. You know, I believe very strongly in federalism. I believe very strongly in local government. However, he's a very clever politician. And by sending ICE in there and having the city start to interfere with federal agents, he then acquires the right to send in the National Guard. On top of which, by having the left, by having the leftist mayors of these high crime cities say, no, no, no, we don't want soldiers coming in and cleaning up our streets like they did in the federal city of Washington D.C. he's just showing you who the left is. The left is for the criminal over the victim. They are, that is just a fact. They support the criminal over the victim. They talk about due process. They don't give a rats about due process. If they did, they wouldn't have prosecuted Donald Trump for all the things they prosecuted him for. They do not care about due process. They think the criminal has a point. Point. They think he's making a statement. And when they talk about root causes of crime, and there is only one root cause of crime, which is the human heart. But when they talk about root causes of crime, what they're doing is they're convicting the society and they're saying that the society is to blame for the criminals who are beleaguering it and hurting it. So every single person who gets attacked and arrested is basically an example of the society where every criminal who does the crime is an example of the victim of society. Listen, no society is perfect. The fact that we have to say that means there are too many children walking around masquerading as adult. Of course, no society is perfect. But a society that stands up for victims is better than a society that stands up for criminals. I'm in favor obviously of paying attention to due process, but that's not a suicide pact. That doesn't mean we let people run, rampage and beat up old people and rob their stores. Criminals should be punished as if they were criminals because they are.

Megyn Kelly (47:58)

Let me get to this. Because this ties it all together. Both the immigration love on the left and the dishonest media and crime. Kristi Noem went on Face the Nation over the weekend to talk about Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who the left absolutely loves this so called Maryland man, Maryland Man, Maryland. Dad, who's allegedly been beating his wife, according to her, and is accused of trafficking a bunch of illegals. Kristi Noem's got a laundry list of crimes this guy has allegedly committed, and we just want to deport him. I mean, we'll prosecute him, put him in our jail eventually if he doesn't want to go. But he's going to go one way or the other. He's already been deported. They already deported him years ago saying, get out. The only place you can't send him to is El Salvador. That's his only leg to stand on because originally we sent him to El Salvador anyway. She goes on CBS Face the Nation, and here is what aired saw 20. If he broke the law in this.

Andrew Klavan (48:55)

Country, as the administration alleges, shouldn't he.

Megyn Kelly (48:58)

Be held here and face charges here.

Andrew Klavan (49:02)

Instead of being deported?

Megyn Kelly (49:04)

Well, prosecution decisions are always made by the Department of Justice and Pam Fondi's department, so we will let them do that. Although this individual does have criminal charges pending, he has charges pending against him civilly as well. And the one thing that we will continue to do is to make sure that he doesn't walk free in the United States of America. Okay, here's what she actually said. Listen to this. This individual was a known human smuggler, Ms. 13 gang member, an individual who was a wife beater and someone who was so perverted that he solicited nude photos from minors. And even his fellow human traffickers told him to knock it off. He was so sick in what he was doing and how he was treating small children. So he needs to never be in the United States of America. And our administration is making sure we're doing all that we can to bring him to justice. So that's CBS News whitewashing the allegations about a criminal defendant from the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, the same organization, well, the media in general that wants you to believe pill the pillars of our society are being deported. Guys with three DWIs under their belt. Andrew, it's shameful and it's truly actively dangerously misleading people. They didn't hear her. People reading CNN think pillar and not. They don't know about the three DWIs, et cetera, necessarily. So your thoughts on the CBS?

Andrew Klavan (50:34)

The most amazing part of that is that human traffickers, he was too mean and ugly and sinful for human traffickers. I mean, I thought that that was, that kind of stood out for me. When you're like, when you're being criticized morally by human traffickers, you may in fact, be a bad guy. And right. They can't put that in because that shows who they're supporting and it shows the underlying fallacy. I mean, look, these guys. These guys never say a nice word about, about any Republican, about Donald Trump, about anybody on the right side. But they got plenty of nice things to say about human traffickers and child mobile criminals. Yeah, well, it's sickening.

Megyn Kelly (51:08)

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Andrew Klavan (52:19)

Isabel Brown. Isabel Brown.

Megyn Kelly (52:21)

The wait is almost over.

Andrew Klavan (52:22)

She's joining Daily Wire plus with the Isabel Brown Show.

Megyn Kelly (52:25)

Cannot wait for you guys to see how hard we've been working. I could not be more excited for this new adventure. You can expect larger than life guests, deeper questions.

Andrew Klavan (52:32)

I'm encouraged by it. I see what you're seeing.

Megyn Kelly (52:34)

The gift that you have as a woman to create life is the most badass punk rock incredible thing that you could possibly do. This is an active culture war that we are still fighting. And it's vitally important that we fight now harder than ever. To the nerds meeting the President of the United States and the Vice President. And now meeting our new American Pope. This is crazy. Freaking out. I am so psyched to be bringing you guys along on this journey. Let's jump in. Join me every weekday for the Isabel Brown show on Daily Wire plus or wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Klavan (53:13)

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Megyn Kelly (53:45)

This fall on the Megyn Kelly Show. For the first time ever, we are going on the road. Megyn Kelly Live kicks off in October and through 10 stops across the country, you will get the chance to join me for no bs, no agenda and no fear Live. It's an all American tour with your favorite all star guests. We've got Tucker, Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro, Donald Trump Jr. And Eric, Piers Morgan and more. Plus your MK media regulars, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinski, Mark Halperin, link Lauren. And we've got surprises in store for you too. So join me live and in person in Texas, Florida, New York, Georgia, California and Arizona. Megyn Kelly Live, presented by Wide refi and Sirius XM. Go get tickets right now Megan Kelly.com before they sell out and I'll see you soon. Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. The Daily Wire's Andrew Clavin is here. His new book after that, the Dark is out next month. Go pre order it and support Andrew and enjoy his writings. Now, I wanted to round back just on the political angle of the situation down in Charlotte because there is one and you know, CNN wants to report it. And the New York Times, when they finally got around to writing an article about this murder, made it all about, oh, how the MAGA Republicans are seizing an opportunity like they want. They're seizing an opportunity on crime as opposed to this is a terrible crime and it's happening in too many places. I mean, there's a report just out today about this professor at Auburn University who was stabbed to death. Yes, once again, it was a white woman killed by a black man. It's not everywhere it would be if the races were reversed. So I mean, it's actually a problem, these crimes as opposed to MAGA Republicans seizing opportunities. Um, but here's what Trump posted on Truth Social about what happened in Charlotte. The blood of this innocent woman can literally be seen dripping from the killer's knife. And now her blood is on the hands of the Democrats who refused to put bad people in jail, including former disgraced governor and wannabe Senator Roy Cooper. Now, Roy Cooper was the former Democratic senator of North Carolina, replaced by the current Democratic governor of North Carolina, Josh Stein. And Josh Stein is out there acting like he has absolutely nothing to do with North Carolina. I mean, he's the governor and his predecessor had similar policies to his. I'll just read you part of what Josh Stein tweeted out. I'm heartbroken for the family of Irina Zyritska, who lost their loved one to this senseless act of violence. And I'm appalled by the footage of her murder. We need more cops on the beat to keep people safe. That's why my budget calls for more funding to hire more well trained police officers. I call on the legislature to pass my law, etc. Let me just read you a couple of the responses. Megan Basham, who works where you work over at the Daily Wire, great reporter and she lives in Charlotte, responded as follows. Governor, your task force for racial equity in criminal justice specifically called for increasing pretrial release and decriminalizing public behavior. That's a term of art here, meaning homelessness and being a public nuisance. But both of these policies contributed to the defendant here, DeCarlo Brown, being on the streets and having the opportunity to commit murder on the Charlotte light rail. Are you going to roll back these policies that your racial task force initiated that are making North Carolinians unsafe? Here's Will Chamberlain from the Article 3 project. He's been on the show multiple times. What on earth are you talking about? Governor Decarlos Brown was arrested 14 times. The police did their job. It's your job to sign into law bills that keep career criminals in jail. He was also Josh Stein, attorney general of North Carolina, when this defendant was arrested and turned out by the criminal justice system 14 times. So no one in power in, in North Carolina is going to take responsibility for what happened to this guy. And I'm not going to let the police off the hook either, because while the cops right now are being very critical of the governor, the mayor in particular, who seems like an absolute fool, here's what the police chief of Mecklenburg county, that's where Charlotte is in North Carolina, said in 2020, his name was Johnny Jennings and said, quote, law enforcement in general is based on racism and that their department can, quote, probably slow down on discretionary arrests. And this is what's been happening in Mecklenburg County. Their criminal justice services has, has received millions of dollars to implement no cash bail to decrease jail populations in an effort to address inequities. They've hired equity and inclusion consultants to address racial disparities at all levels of the justice system. And in 2020, the Charlotte City Council launch launched an initiative to reimagine policing, including diverting 911 calls away from the police department. I mean, this. Like, it's really rich now to hear people like the governor, former Attorney General, talk about how we need more cops. We can have all the cops in the world. Trump could send the entire Marines in in there. But if the system, including the judges, we went over that yesterday, just send them right back out, no bail, no consequences, no penalties of any kind, we're not gonna solve crime. We're gonna have more arenas get killed on the light rail system for no reason.

Andrew Klavan (59:28)

You know, to my mind, one of the proofs of the Christian doctrine of original sin is that people feel so sinful inside, they will do almost anything to prove their virtue. And one of the things they will do is they will live in a city that could be beautiful, that could be safe, and watch it just decline into chaos and filth and crime because somebody told them that that was the virtuous thing to do. It is not the virtuous thing to do. It is not kind to be good to criminals so that they can prey on ordinary citizens. It is a bad thing. And then it's as if people don't understand that crime goes up because of policy. That's what that is, what it is. It's political policy that makes your city crash. Okay? It's not because some people are black and some people are white. Is because of the policies that are put in place. And then when things go wrong, they blame the police. And here's the thing that drives me crazy about this. You know, I worked in Hollywood for several years, and in Hollywood, if you have never done a nice thing for anybody, if you don't even call your mother on Sunday, but you pretend to be a cop on television, you can make $250,000 a week. You can make a quarter of a million dollars a week. Real police who are actually doing the work of keeping people safe and risking their lives, they get paid considerably less, if you ask them, than $250,000 a week. Police are there to clean up the mess that politicians make. And then politicians blame the cops for the mess, and the press, like a poodle chasing after a red rubber dog, runs off after that. I mean, reporters are supposed to be cynical. When a politician points at a cop and says, oh, it's his fault he's arresting black people, the reporter should immediately look to the end of that finger, to the end of the arm and to the face that's pointing the finger Cuz that's the guy to blame. And this is the guy.

Megyn Kelly (61:13)

The buck stops with you, sir.

Andrew Klavan (61:14)

The buck stops with the people who make the policies. And it's, you know, the poor cops are the last guy, they're the last person on the totem pole. You know, the policies were made up here. It filters down and it becomes a punishing experience to live in a city because, because of those policies. And then they blame the cops. And it happens again and again and it's just, it's just awful because we, you know, our police are the, they're the thin blue line. They're the people who keep civilization, civilization. You know, this is just something that is, it's just appalling to me that people blame soldiers, they blame cops for the things that politicians do. And politicians could not be happier because who. They don't want to lose their jobs. But that's what's happening. That's why a city becomes unsafe. It becomes unsafe because of the policies. And yeah, the governor can point to the mayor, I think that's fair. But the mayor can also point to the governor because he has a lot to do with what gets funded and what doesn't. So these are the people who should be held responsible. If you are walking out in your city and you are afraid, it's the responsibility of the politicians running that city and it's the responsibility of the party, of the politicians because they are dictating some of the policies. And you know, listen, I watched New York go down the drain because nobody would vote for a Republican. I saw San Francisco go down the drain because nobody would vote for Republican because the Democrats had convinced them that it was not a virtuous thing to do to vote for a Republican. The minute they voted for Giuliani, as the New York Times cursed him every single day, he transformed a hellhole into a paradise. And that can be done through policy. It's amazing what policy can accomplish.

Megyn Kelly (62:47)

Let's go North Carolina. You have a lot of roots in being a red state. If you would get back to that, you would be safer. I mean, it's just. By the way, the New York Times, I pulled it up, here's the headline. When they finally got around to reporting it. A gruesome murder in North Carolina ignites a firestorm on the right. That's, that's the story.

Andrew Klavan (63:08)

Republicans.

Megyn Kelly (63:08)

Yeah, Republicans pounce. Security footage capturing the unprovoked stabbing and with charged Charlotte became an accelerant for conservative arguments about the perceived failings of Democratic policies. It's really unbelievable. I mean, it's like you can't. You couldn't ask for better on. On their headlines. And for what it's worth, though, I will say that the police union in Charlotte is doing a great job and they are sparing no one, especially not that mayor saying, if you would just look at anything we've been begging you to do over the past couple of years, this might not have happened. Like, please spare us on the, oh, we have to address root cause discussion right now. So off. All right, let's keep going because I've got to get to the Piers Morgan thing. So he had. He had on someone describing themselves as a journalist named Lori Penny. And it was a panel involving the trans issue and the whole gender confusion. And he's got another panelist on there who is a male to female trans person. And then he's got this Lori Penny who describes, I think, herself as non binary and pierced at something so, so simple and seemingly so obvious. But like that you never see done, which was to turn to this person and say, what does that mean? And here's a sampling. I wish I could play you the whole segment, but we could be here all day. Here's a sampling of what happened next.

Kevin Hines (64:28)

The actual point of free speech is.

Andrew Klavan (64:30)

You have to tolerate and allow people to say things you don't like. That is the point.

Megyn Kelly (64:36)

100%. Unless you're actually. And as far as Graham, unless you're.

Kevin Hines (64:39)

Actually inciting a crime.

Andrew Klavan (64:40)

And nobody could have read that grand linen tweet and not thought he was.

Kevin Hines (64:43)

Just cracking a rather crass joke about Graham Linehan.

Megyn Kelly (64:46)

No.

Andrew Klavan (64:46)

If anything, Blair's a trans woman. Why don't we let her answer? I'm also transgender. I know.

Kevin Hines (64:54)

Go ahead.

Megyn Kelly (64:55)

I'm.

Andrew Klavan (64:56)

So which trans are you, if you don't mind me asking?

Megyn Kelly (64:57)

I'm non binary.

Andrew Klavan (64:58)

I'm just curious what you mean by non binary. What does that mean?

Megyn Kelly (65:01)

I'm curious. I. Well, firstly, what are your pronouns? They, them.

Kevin Hines (65:04)

What does that mean?

Andrew Klavan (65:04)

Just only one of you.

Megyn Kelly (65:05)

What. What does they them? Actually, they, them has been the.

Andrew Klavan (65:09)

The collective they has been used to refer to individual people for centuries and still is.

Megyn Kelly (65:15)

So, I mean, if you don't understand.

Andrew Klavan (65:16)

Basic grammar, that's on you. I don't understand. I don't understand. I've got to be honest with you. I don't understand the concept of what.

Megyn Kelly (65:21)

Non binary means or why you would use.

Andrew Klavan (65:24)

Why you would use a plural pronoun to describe a singular person. That makes the.

Kevin Hines (65:28)

To me, this is the problem with.

Andrew Klavan (65:29)

The whole woke thing. Is inexplicable. Nobody really knows what it means. I don't know what you mean by non binary. They.

Kevin Hines (65:36)

Them.

Andrew Klavan (65:36)

There's one of you sitting here and.

Megyn Kelly (65:38)

You look to me.

Andrew Klavan (65:39)

Female. You're a female.

Megyn Kelly (65:41)

Okay.

Andrew Klavan (65:41)

Are you a female if you don't.

Megyn Kelly (65:42)

Understand what non binary means?

Andrew Klavan (65:44)

Are you a female if you don't understand what non binary means?

Megyn Kelly (65:46)

I don't. Then I'm not sure you're in a.

Andrew Klavan (65:49)

Position to lead a debate. So just tell me, tell me.

Megyn Kelly (65:52)

But if you can't explain it in simple language, then what's the point?

Andrew Klavan (65:56)

Well, explain what?

Megyn Kelly (65:57)

I can tell you exactly what being a transaction, gender identity is something other than a man or woman. I'm a non binary individual.

Andrew Klavan (66:04)

But you accept you're a female.

Megyn Kelly (66:06)

I don't think that I'm here to discuss the contents of my.

Andrew Klavan (66:10)

You raised.

Megyn Kelly (66:11)

You raised this whole thing.

Andrew Klavan (66:12)

I didn't mention anything about what you were.

Kevin Hines (66:15)

You did. You said I'm trans.

Megyn Kelly (66:17)

This has really become uncomfortably personal as it.

Andrew Klavan (66:20)

You said it, not me.

Megyn Kelly (66:22)

If you think this is uncomfortable and personal, try undressing in a locker room with a 6 foot 4 naked man, Riley Gaines, at the end there. It was amazing. It went on. Piers was so good. Like, just what is it? What is. I really doubt that this person even knows what it is because why was she so reluctant to define it?

Andrew Klavan (66:41)

Well, first of all, that's like the third time I've watched that video and it's still cracking me up. It is an amazing. It was one of Piers Morgan's greatest moments. But of course, this entire thing is. Is a. It's an induced mental illness. That's what makes it so painful. You know, we pick on the trans people and transgenderism is in fact a violent movement. I mean, if you, if you work with my friend Matt Walsh, you know how much security he has to have for standing up against them. It is a violent movement because it's a non real movement. It's a movement against reality. And reality has a way of dominating the culture. And so ultimately you're going to have to fight if you don't want to live under reality. But the fact of it is, it's induced. It is induced by the left on mostly gay young people who don't know who they are, and they're confused and they're worried and they're afraid. And the left comes and tells them this lie and tells them like Satan tells people. It tells them it's going to make them feel better and it's going to make them stronger. To accept this lie instead of living in reality. And then we wind up blaming again. We blame the transgender person. Sometimes they're to blame for the things that they do. They are responsible for themselves. But I think we gotta clean these people out of our schools. We gotta clean them out of our academies. We gotta clean them out of like polite society. Because you don't have the right to go around telling people that they should be crazy. You know, it's essentially like, it's like going on and telling people that everything's a conspiracy. You know, it's like, you can do it. You have the free speech right to do it, but you don't deserve any respect. And if you get sued for lying and lose, you should pay up. And I think that that's who these people are. I mean, I've read some of these books about transgenderism to sort of get what they're talking about, and they're just, they're just not true. They're just like telling people that, that the world is not what it is. So I'm not surprised that this person identifies as something they can't even define. And the kind of self righteous attitude they took, like, how dare you ask me what I mean when I say something, sir? You know, how dare you is comical, but it's only comical in the context of this greater tragedy of people talking confused young people into madness. And an induced mental illness is a truly evil thing. It means somebody has done an evil thing.

Megyn Kelly (68:51)

It's really amazing. It's like just something to behold. Just what is it? What does it mean? You've adopted it. You're living your whole life by it. You say it's your identity. Please explain it to me. And the absolute reluctance. And the only reason that would explain the reluctance is she doesn't know she's too dumb to understand. That seemed obvious. Like, I think there's a world in which you could find somebody using that term where they would have a definition at the ready for you. She didn't know she glommed on to some exciting, exotic term of the day to sound more interesting than she really is. And then when pressed, she resorted to you're offensive to she, like peers, was offensive for asking her what that means. I'm not familiar with that. And, and pretending she was being personally attacked by simply a question. What is that thing that you say or is actually just a thing of beauty they were talking about? Graham Linehan, who's an Irish citizen, was living in the uk, now he lives in Arizona, who was on this show yesterday in his first exclusive on camera interview about his ridiculous arrest for three totally benign anodyne ex posts on the trans issue. For those of you who missed it, we have a little. We have a little on. On what it's done to his life. Let's play that one. SOT8 his activism. You not only did not have your colleagues stand by you, you. You lost your marriage, your health went downhill. I mean, I don't want to skip right over that, because when you invite this kind of stress and harassment, and I do use that word, harassment as a legal matter, you've been legally harassed by these trans activists. It comes at a physical and personal cost that people too frequently gloss by. Can you speak to it a bit?

Kevin Hines (70:42)

Well, yeah. I mean, the person I mentioned earlier.

Andrew Klavan (70:46)

The sex offender, he released my home.

Kevin Hines (70:48)

Address online when I was still at.

Andrew Klavan (70:51)

The family home, which absolutely, you know, terrified my wife. As the writer of Father Ted, I.

Kevin Hines (70:56)

Was fairly well liked. So neither of us thought we had.

Andrew Klavan (70:59)

To be careful with our online footprint.

Kevin Hines (71:03)

But of course, when it flipped and.

Andrew Klavan (71:04)

I became public enemy number one, all the things that we put online were.

Kevin Hines (71:10)

Kind of rifled through by trans activists for anything they could use against me.

Andrew Klavan (71:15)

I've been visited by the police, I.

Kevin Hines (71:17)

Think, three times now, not including the arrest.

Megyn Kelly (71:20)

What?

Andrew Klavan (71:22)

Yeah.

Kevin Hines (71:22)

Oh, yeah.

Andrew Klavan (71:22)

They came to my home.

Kevin Hines (71:23)

It's just constant.

Andrew Klavan (71:25)

I'm never not on edge in the.

Kevin Hines (71:29)

Country I moved to.

Megyn Kelly (71:31)

And sadly, Andrew, it's not just his country. I mean, we have now seen trans violence in mass shooting after mass shooting, a fact that the mainstream media will not report and would like buried. And I had Matt Walsh on last week after the shooting in Minneapolis, and we had a very frank discussion about where this is going and why no one will pay any attention to it. So what do you think is likely to happen now? Because I think the trans activists are on their heels. Their power's gone down. People are returning to sanity. But we still have, unfortunately, for example, the Supreme Court ruling in Bostock saying it's discriminatory to not hire somebody who says they're trans. This is really disturbing. Like, if you're running a school and you have somebody who says they're trans applying to you, and you decide to reject them, you get a high likelihood of being sued by them claiming that it's because they're trans. Like, you have some sort of a duty to hire trans people. And why would you. When you see these statistics and you see Graham's story and you understand that just anecdotally, what you said about Matt Walsh and the amount of security he needs just to go from A to B. Like, I'm deeply disturbed by this, and I really, really hope the Supreme Court revisits Bostock. But what do you see happening over the next year or two on this front?

Andrew Klavan (72:49)

Well, first. First of all, that was Neil Gorsuch's lowest moment, because, of course, it was. If you're in a room, originalist, you cannot believe that when people write about men and women and when they write about sex, they don't know what sex is. And again, going back to a previous point I made, clothing is a language. It's a language that we speak to one another. And there's a reason the Bible forbids people to cross dress. I mean, it's because we believe that there's such a thing as men and women, and you should be able to dress in some style that indicates what you are. Here's what I think will happen. You know, I always say reality has a voice. Reality has a vote. So you can vote for transgender people, and the Supreme Court can vote for transgender people, but they don't really actually exist. You cannot move from one gender to another. There may be people who are. There's a very, very vanishingly small number of people who are more comfortable living as if they were the opposite sex. You know, God love them. As long as they don't insist that I call them anything or that. As long as they don't go into the wrong restroom and bother people, you know, fine. But for the rest of these people, these are people who have been induced. They have induced mental illness. But eventually, reality will come back. People will understand that their children should not be told these things. They should be corrected. If somebody is gay, they let them be gay, but they're not going to. That doesn't change their sex. They're going to be who they are. All of those things are going to come back, and ultimately, there just won't be enough of them to have the kind of political weight that they have had. And I think that what will happen.

Megyn Kelly (74:18)

Here, we have to undo the laws state by state, though, right? Because they. While we were quiet, they got all the blue states to change their laws when it comes to the educational front and what a teacher's allowed to do and the secrets being kept from parents and so on.

Andrew Klavan (74:31)

This is why you always have to speak up. This is why courage is required, and this is why courage. You know, courage is not a virtue in itself, but it's the bedrock of all other virtues in this country. We have allowed the left to silence us, using our politeness, using our good manners to tell us that we were evil. If we notice that crime is high in black neighborhoods, or if we notice that, you know, gay people maybe not are not as good for raising children as a straight married couple. All of these things we were told were impolite and were unvirtuous. And as I said before, people are desperate, desperate to appear virtuous to one another because we all know that we're sort of broken down inside. And I think we have let them use that mechanism and now it's time to make them stop. And I think we're just going to have to put up with the media calling us names and telling us what we are. You know, I lived in England for many years. Most of the 90s I lived in England. And the first dinner party I was in England, somebody turned to me and said, what is it with you Americans? In one of those plummy British accents that make you feel unintelligent, said, what is it with you Americans that you had to write down your constitution? I said, it's so we don't forget, you know. And I think the problem in Britain is they are really lucky we did history. Yeah, exactly. Such a long history of knowing what freedom is in their bodies, that they preserved freedom even in times that are difficult. Now they've forgotten and they. I bet they're sorry, a lot of them, that they don't have a First Amendment because they have forgotten completely what free speech is and that the author of Father Ted A Truly Hilarious Suit Situation Comedy should be arrested for tweets while rapists are set free in Britain is just. It makes me worried that the country's not going to survive. It makes me worried that, you know, it's not going to be here. When my children get to be my age, there's not going to be a Great Britain.

Megyn Kelly (76:14)

I know. I have the same thought and same about a lot of Europe. I mean, Germany with shadow of its former self. It's happening in France too. Okay, last but not least, I want to get to the update on Cracker Barrel, which had this woke explosion and decided to change its logo. They decided the little guy that like old timey guy who was part of the logo needed to go and the barrel needed to go. And now there was no barrel and it just said the words crackle cracker Barrel. And there was a revolt and they started redoing all the restaurants in a way that completely sanitized them, made them totally antiseptic, like you were Going to perform a surgery. Surgery in there as opposed to go with your family for a good home cooked kind of meal. And we had the CEO, a very annoying, obviously leftist woman with the huge glasses. And she's just totally on brand when you look at her. Her name is Julia Fels Messino, trying to sell us the lie when she was trying to do, like, damage control and push her newness that. Everybody loved the redesign. Okay. So they were forced in, thanks to the right wing and President Trump, into reversing the logo decision because, like, the. The country rose up and said, we don't want this. No, no one wants this. Even some of the left said, we don't want this. So they were forced to reverse it and go back to the old logo, but they were continuing with the redesign. And here is. This is from August 19th that the CEO talking about. The redesign is super popular. Watch this. Stop 24.

Andrew Klavan (77:41)

A lot of restaurants are leaning and.

Kevin Hines (77:43)

Going back to nostalgia.

Andrew Klavan (77:44)

Things that the customers are really.

Megyn Kelly (77:46)

We never left it.

Kevin Hines (77:47)

Yeah, you never left it. But you, you're changing up. You're kind of going a different direction.

Andrew Klavan (77:51)

Why is that your strategy? Yeah.

Megyn Kelly (77:53)

Because, people, the Cracker Barrel needs to feel like the Cracker Barrel for today and for tomorrow.

Andrew Klavan (77:58)

And again, the things that you love are still there. We need people to choose us, and.

Megyn Kelly (78:02)

We want people to choose us because people love this brand.

Kevin Hines (78:04)

What if all the customers are coming.

Andrew Klavan (78:07)

At you hard enough about the look of the restaurant and they want to go back to the old way? Would you do it?

Megyn Kelly (78:13)

Honestly, the feedback's been overwhelmingly positive that people like what we're doing. Yeah, people love it. They love it. And yet today at 10:36 this morning, we get the following announcement from Cracker Barrel. You've shared your voices in recent weeks, not just on our logo, but also on our restaurants. We're continuing to listen. Today, we are suspending our remodels. If your restaurant has not been remodeled, you don't need to worry. It won't be. Wait, what do you mean? Julie, you told me everybody wants to be remodeled. You said that's a number one request you're getting. They want the remodel now. It's. If your restaurant hasn't already been remodeled, you don't need to worry. It won't be. With our recent announcement that our Old Timer logo will remain along with our bigger focus in the the kitchen and on your plate, we hope today's step reinforces that. We hear you. Okay. This has been such an amazing public beatdown that has completely brought Cracker Barrel to its knees. I love every minute of it. I'll say this Robby Starbuck, who's great, he's like very important. He's like of the Chris Rufo like level of importance in fighting wokeness in our American corporations. He interviewed the original Cracker Barrel co founder Tommy Lowe, who's an elderly man on what this board has been doing at Cracker Barrel. And here's a bit of that from Robbie's show on Monday, Sock 25, before.

Andrew Klavan (79:34)

They hired the CEO we got now, they had board members that were from big corporations that owned stock and they appointed one of those members of theirs.

Kevin Hines (79:49)

On the Cracker Barrel board and that.

Andrew Klavan (79:52)

Complied the board, but they didn't have any idea what Cracker Barrel was. They still don't.

Kevin Hines (79:58)

Yeah. And evidently they just.

Andrew Klavan (80:02)

Yes. People that are taking orders from somebody.

Kevin Hines (80:07)

And they don't know.

Andrew Klavan (80:09)

And obviously the lady that's CEO doesn't know.

Megyn Kelly (80:14)

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Klavan (80:15)

And doesn't seem to care either. No. Well, why would you got $7 million for doing nothing a year.

Megyn Kelly (80:22)

Yeah, he gets it. She doesn't get it. The big, big glass liberal lady was wrong on every front. So here's my question to you. Where's the accountability? Why aren't we getting an announcement that Julie Fels Messino is out? The same thing happened at Bud Light. Remember, they quietly, after a huge kerfuffle, like moved that lunatic PR woman or marketing woman off the post, but the CEO stayed. There's no accountability. It's just like quietly skulking back to the original hoping nobody noticed your folly.

Andrew Klavan (80:55)

You know, my favorite thing about this story is the media reaction was universal. It was just one media reaction was this. Oh, those silly right wingers. All they care about is some stupid chain restaurant and their logo. How silly they are. This is David French from David French in the New York Times to show. I know you and I both, both love the fifth column where they suffer from. They're wonderful, but they suffer from a little bit of elitism. Oh, how silly is Chris Ruffo? Oh, who silly is Robbie Starbuck. So I on my show said, okay, well, let's turn this around. Let's. Let's change some of their cultural, you know, icons. Let's take the show Will and Grace and we reboot. This is the show that the left says helped normalize homosexuality in America. Let's reboot it and have Will become a Catholic and have the entire show be about Will struggling not to indulge his physical desires so that he can serve his God. That's what the comedy will be about. And that'll be the source of the comedy. Let's reroute, rewrite roots, you know, so that the white guy doesn't charge into the African interior, which didn't happen, but does what he did in real life. He sits in his boat on offshore until the black African brings his black slaves to give to him to take to America. Let's, let's change all of their slaves. You know, recently they had Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ Superstar, played by a black woman. And that, you know, who would ever complain about such a thing? And I thought, but, but if you have a hearing actor play a deaf character, that's a sin. So I thought we should just have a deaf Jew play Jesus Christ. And when they say, you should be a black woman, he can say, I can't hear you. I'm sorry, I'm deaf. You know, if we made any of these changes to left wing culture, I mean, the New York Times would simply burst into flames. It would just actually turn to ashes, which would improve the state of journalism in the country, but not be very pleasant for them. These are the things that have to be fought over. I know it's sometimes silly, I know it seems sometimes petty, but no, if you have a thing, you know, as Robby pointed out repeatedly, this was not just about their logo. They were practicing DEI policies, which are racist. They were practicing, you know, LGBTQ support, which was not something that a lot of their customers favored. So basically they were taking money from people to use that money for things that their customers found contemptible. And yes, you're right, Megan, you should be punished for that. You should be fired for doing something stupid like that and trying to impose it Disney the same way, when you've got people trying to, you know, queer the children, children using Disney cartoons, you are violating the promise that company made when it was started and what Walt Disney stood for and what the company stood for. Listen, I may sometimes be on the other side of some of these questions. I may sometimes be more liberal than other people. But I do believe that, Cap, you know, capitalism is not just about, oh, we're making enough money, it's also about serving the people. And if you're going to go out and say, we're a company and we have rights, like we're individuals, which companies do serve, say when they go to court, then you have to behave with some kind of moral responsibility to the people you serve this thing. I think that Chris Ruffo and Robbie Starbuck are doing the work of God. I think that's great that they are holding these people to account, I think. And, and they shouldn't allow themselves to be mocked. They, you know, they can be mocked, but they shouldn't step down just because people are making fun of them. They're making fun of them because they get them where it hurts.

Megyn Kelly (84:11)

Yeah. And with this so far, they show zero chance of being shamed out of doing what they're doing.

Andrew Klavan (84:16)

They don't like. They're not easily cowed. That's true.

Megyn Kelly (84:18)

Well, in any event, enjoy your cracker barrel because it's going to stay the same as we suspected. That woman's lies were lies. They did not want the remodel. No one wanted the remodel. It was a woke leftist idea to sanitize a place that a lot of Americans love just as it is. And there's nothing wrong with that. Change for the sake of change is not always a good idea. Old timey is actually really inviting and comforting. And there's something to it because there are fewer and fewer examples of it. And I say right on for the decision that they were forced now to make. Andrew, a pleasure. Thanks so much for being here and we'll see you soon on the road.

Andrew Klavan (84:54)

Always great to see you, Megan. Thanks.

Megyn Kelly (84:56)

Awesome. Okay, don't Forget, go to MeganKelly.com if you want to get tickets for our Megyn Kelly live tour. And, and you can see Andrew and the rest of our Daily Wire pals, among other wonderful Megyn Kelly guests. Okay, up next, Kevin Hines actually jumped off of the Golden Gate Bridge. He's here with his powerful story and we'll explain why. That cookie calling Your name at 3pm I just thought I was alone in that it calls everybody's name. I mean, I didn't know that, but it definitely calls my name. I mean, yeah, loudly. The midnight fridge raids. All right, I'm not going to lie. I don't do that. But I do hear that cookie calling my name. The extra slice of pizza you swore you wouldn't eat. Okay, that too. I guess that's. I'm also subject to that. If you feel like your cravings control you, it's not just willpower. It could be your gut. Your gut crying for help. That's your gut calling your name, not the cookie. That's why I want to tell you about Just Thrive Probiotic and their digestive bitters. See, modern diets often lack essential bitters, compounds that manage appetite hormones like GLP1. The same hormone in those expensive weight management shots just Thrive's Digestive Bitters give you the power of 12 clinically proven herbs that help your body break down food efficiently While naturally supporting GLP. 1. Production controlled cravings, less bloat, steady energy and comfortable digestion. Try Just Thrive Digestive Bitters and Just Thrive probiotic today@justthrivehealth.com and use code Megan for 20% off your first order. That's justthrivehealth.com, code Megan. Your body is going to thank you if you are stressed about back taxes. Maybe you missed that April deadline or your books are a mess. Don't wait. The IRS is cracking down. Penalties add up fast. 5% per month, up to 25% just for not filing. But there is help. Tax Network USA can take the burden off your shoulders and stop the spiral before it gets worse. They have helped thousands of Americans. Whether you're an employee, a small business owner, or haven't filed in years, messy books, it's not a problem. They've seen it all. Tax Network USA has direct access to powerful IRS programs and expert negotiators on your side. You'll get a free consultation and if you qualify, they may even be able to reduce or eliminate what you owe. More importantly, they will help protect you from wage garnishments or bank levies. So don't wait for the next irs letter. Call 800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan to speak to a real expert at Tax Network USA. Take the pressure off. Let Tax Network USA handle your tax issues. Isabelle Brown Isabel Brown Isabel Brown.

Andrew Klavan (87:45)

Isabel Brown.

Megyn Kelly (87:46)

The wait is almost over. She's joining Daily Wire on plus with.

Andrew Klavan (87:49)

The Isabelle Brown Show.

Megyn Kelly (87:50)

Cannot wait for you guys to see how hard we've been working. I could not be more excited for this new adventure. You can expect larger than life guests, deeper questions.

Andrew Klavan (87:58)

I'm encouraged by it. I see what you're seeing.

Megyn Kelly (88:00)

The gift that you have as a woman to create life is the most badass punk rock incredible thing that you could possibly do. This is an active culture war that we are still fighting. And it's vitally important that we fight now. Now harder than ever. To the nerds meeting the President of the United States and the Vice President and now meeting our new American host. This is crazy. Freaking out. I am so psyched to be bringing you guys along on this journey. Let's jump in. Join me every weekday for the Isabel Brown show on Daily Wire plus or wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Klavan (88:39)

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Megyn Kelly (88:43)

Overworked accountant who forgot to encrypt their.

Andrew Klavan (88:46)

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Megyn Kelly (89:10)

I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today, you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

Andrew Klavan (89:55)

Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe. Subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free offer details apply.

Megyn Kelly (90:13)

Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. We're joined now by a man whose story has inspired millions around the world. At just 19 years old, Kevin Hines jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge. And against all odds, he actually survived. That moment came with instant regret, and it was the beginning of a new mission for Kevin. To spread hope, healing, and the message that life is always worth living. He's now a global mental health advocate whose motto is simple, be here tomorrow and every day after that. As we mark Suicide Prevention Week, we wanted to have Kevin on. He's out with a powerful new book called the Art of Wellness, helping people everywhere build resilience and mental fitness. Kevin, it's great to see you again. How are you?

Kevin Hines (90:58)

Thank you, Megan. It's always great to see you. I'm doing very well today. Appreciate it.

Megyn Kelly (91:04)

So, for the audience members who don't know your story, let's just start with it because you had some tough breaks during your childhood and by the time you were 19, they'd caught up with you.

Kevin Hines (91:17)

Yeah, as an infant, I was first and foremost, I was born in abject poverty, lived in and out of crack motels, birth parents both on drugs and I was ripped away from that lack of a home and placed in a foster care. In foster care, my brother and I, who was 10 months older than me, Irish twins. My brother and I both got bronchitis because of neglect in a foster home, and he died right next to me. So I was a survivor, if you could say. From the very beginning. I bounced around from home to home. But unlike my poor brother Megan, I got very, very lucky. The Heinz family took me in and made me their son. They essentially saved my life, gave me hope, gave me a future. And growing up in the Heinzholm, I thought, everything's going to be copacetic from here. Smooth sailing. But at 17 and a half, I had a complete mental breakdown in front of 1,200 people in a theater show I was in, and I had to be sent straight to see a psychiatrist, placed on medications. But, Megan, I was 17. I wasn't accurately following a treatment plan or adequately. I wasn't in belief that I had what they told me I had called bipolar disorder, the very same brain disease. Both of my biological parents had been diagnosed before they ever took drugs. And by 19 years of age, my brain had crumbled under the weight of the pain I was experiencing. I call it brain pain instead of mental health. Your brain is an organ, just like every other organ in the body, and it, too, can become disease. And mine was. And at 19, looking seemingly at what I thought was the greatest pain I'd ever experienced and what I believe to be the fact that it would never go away, I found myself at the Golden Gate Bridge walkway, peering over the rail, crying my tears through waters below. And, and, and, And Megan, as you well know, I jumped and I fell that day. 220ft, 25 stories, closing in on terminal velocity in four seconds. In those four seconds, Megan, the only thing I did was pray to God that I would live as you said, it was an instantaneous regret for my actions and this 100% recognition that I just made the greatest mistake of my life. And it was likely too late. And people have asked me over time, how too late? Well, 99.9% of the people that had leapt off the Golden Gate Bridge since its inception 90 some years ago, it's been too late. They're all gone. And so I always say I get to be here. And I firmly and formidably believe that getting to be here is both a privilege and a gift, no matter the pain you might be in. And I'm in a great deal of physical pain today and every day from what I did myself. All those years ago.

Megyn Kelly (94:17)

You broke multiple bones, your vertebrae were shattered, multiple internal organs were severely damaged. And yet, I know you feel like you had a guardian angel, that you actually did have somebody looking out for you that day. Explain.

Kevin Hines (94:35)

When I went into the water and I went down. First of all, when you hit the water, you hit 15,000 pounds of pressure. That's like a giant African elephant standing on your chest. Who survives that? I am. I imploded my T12L1L2. They splintered. I missed severing my spinal cord by 2 millimeters, 2 millimeters away from certain death and drowning. I went down 40 to 50ft. And I opened my eyes and I was drowning. And I didn't want to. I desperately wanted to live. Fight or flight mode. And I was fighting. I made my way to the surface, but I couldn't stay above water. I kept going down. I go down one more time, I can't make it back up. And I think to myself, this is it. This is where I go. I'm going to die here. No one's going to know. I didn't want to. No one is going to know. I knew I made a mistake. And that's when something very large and very slimy and very alive began circling beneath me. And I remember thinking to myself, you've got to be kidding me. I didn't die jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, and a shark is going to devour me.

Andrew Klavan (95:29)

Perfect.

Kevin Hines (95:30)

And it turned out to be no shark at all. Bystanders who saw me go over the rail would later report to the Coast Guard that a sea lion was keeping me afloat until the Coast Guard boat arrived behind me. And Megan, you can call that whatever you want, but in my opinion, that is a miracle beyond belief. And God was looking out for me that day and made sure I was not going to die by suicide in a place that is 99.9% fatal for people who did the same thing I did.

Megyn Kelly (96:02)

That's incredible. It gives me the chills whenever I hear you tell this story. Kevin, since then, you've worked tirelessly to stay stop others from making that same decision you made that day. You've been instrumental in getting, just for one example, the nets that we saw go up in 20, 23 under the Golden Gate, which many in San Francisco didn't want because they thought they might be unsightly, they might mar the bridge, but they've actually saved lives. Now. It's a lot harder to die by suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate. It's something you had to work very hard to push for.

Kevin Hines (96:36)

We worked for 20 years to raise the nets at the Golden Gate Bridge. The Bridge Rail foundation, founded by my father, Patrick Paul Muller and Dave Hall. My wife and I were co founding board members. We argued with the bridge district for 20 years to do this, to stop suicide at the Golden Gate Bridge effectively. And the Golden Gate Bridge District Authority's original charter stated this bridge, the Golden Gate Bridge will be safe for all who cross it. They failed their mission and we were holding them accountable. Since the inception of the net, suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge have reduced by 73% in one year. That's incredible. Proving positive that reduction of access to lethal means absolutely saves lives. And we're working toward the goal of making it, making it to zero suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge. And we hope to get there as soon as humanly possible.

Megyn Kelly (97:35)

The thing about suicide is it overwhelmingly affects young people. I mean, over 65 also commit suicide in very large numbers. But 10 to 34, it's the second biggest cause of death. 10 to 34, it's just, it's bullying, it's childhood trauma, and it's all sorts of things. And so a lot of parents, Kevin, do not want to discuss this because they don't even want the idea floated out there, right, like in the universe. So what's your advice to them? Do they have to discuss it? If it's, let's say, you know, you have a kid who's, you know, you can tell they're, they're dark or they're feeling depressed and they're not talking to you.

Kevin Hines (98:20)

Parents, listen carefully. If you do not have the conversation of suicide prevention at the breakfast, lunch and dinner table with your children, they are going to come across it themselves through media, through social media, through all kinds of avenues, through their friends, through their peers. You must have the conversation. And you must be bold enough to ask three very important questions when you have the inclination that your child is considering suicide, is likely depressed, is struggling with anxiety, or all of the above. Are you thinking of killing yourself? Have you made plans to take your life? And do you have the means? But you don't start there. You start with, hey, I'm really worried about you. I love you with all of my heart. I'm going to ask you three direct questions. I want you to answer me with honest answers. You will not be in trouble. Nothing you say could be bad or derogatory. I am here for you because I love you. I've got your back and I'm Listening to understand, not to respond. Are you thinking of killing yourself? Have made plans to take your life and do you have the means? Get some more honest answer from youth than the question, are you thinking of suicide? Because of the taboo on the word suicide. And a more honest answer than the question, are you thinking of self harm? Because by definition, self harm is not suicide. It's self harm which can lead to suicide, but it's not suicide. Asking those three direct questions are proven by the Crisis Text Lines 20 year old AI algorithm to get more honest answers than those questions I posed, suicide and harm. So asking the questions are pertinent, they're crucial, they're imperative, and they save lives.

Megyn Kelly (99:55)

Wow. And it's not just with your kids either. I know you encourage people, if they know somebody in their professional life and if they know somebody in their social life, if they happen to see somebody who is literally on the verge of taking their own life, like happened to you, to not be afraid to express caring, compassion, or ask the tough question. Like, there actually was a woman you encountered on that bridge moments before you went over the side.

Kevin Hines (100:29)

She approached me with a smile on her face, Megan. And I thought she was coming to ask me if I was okay. I prepared myself I was going to tell her everything and beg her to save me because I couldn't save myself. And she approached, she pulled out a digital camera and she said, will you take my picture in that accent? And maybe she was trying to reach me in her own way, but I couldn't see it. When she left, I told myself the greatest lie any of us have ever told. Absolutely no one cares. And it was the furthest thing from the truth. Megan When I travel around the world to speak in every continent, with every language to every community, one of the most common themes I hear is that people who are in the audience, especially youth alike, are being neglected and abused at home or their peers are telling them to just go kill themselves in school and when they go home on social media. We must stop the inherent bullying, hazing, teasing and harassment that goes on in our schools. And if we can't stop the bullying, we, we need to build more resilient children to let them know that suicide is never ever the solution to their problem. It is the problem. Suicidal ideations are the greatest liars we know. Don't listen to them. And suicide does not, cannot and will not ever take the pain away. It just transfers it on to everyone left behind and makes it wholly impossible for things to ever get better. But with time, energy, effort and a Great deal of hard work. Things will always get better. I promise you. I. I know this. I'm living proof. That's why I wrote the book, the Art of Wellness, how to Find, Live, and Stay Mentally Fit. It is a workbook that determines how you better balance your brain, mind, behavioral, physical, spiritual, social, health and wellbeing. It is changing lives around the world. And I want it to change your audience's lives here every day going forward. Because you go back to the book every day, you have a problem, and you find a new technique to implement into your daily life, to change your.

Megyn Kelly (102:23)

Brain, to change your life, to rewire that. And it's not like you. I mean, you had a lot of pain, and I know you do to this day as a result of your catastrophic fall, but you manage it so you understand. You understand what pain is like. You understand what physical pain is like, what mental and emotional pain is like. You speak firsthand on these issues. And I wanna tell this story. I've been wanting to tell you this story for years. So you came on my show on NBC, and your beautiful wife Margie was there, too, and you told this story, and it was completely riveting. I mean, everybody listened. You could hear a pin drop in the studio, including me. And when we went to break and I was walking you out of the studio, you told me that you had, like, a policy, that you. You asked people for their phone numbers, and you wanted people to make sure that if they ever, like, had a dark moment to know that they could call you, that you would help them in their down moment. And I. Listening to that story and listening to the ongoing pain you said you were in, said, kevin, I want to give you my phone number so you can call me. I can be one of your people if you ever have these dark moments again. So I gave you my phone number, thinking I would be there for you. And not long after that, I got fired from my show. I left NBC. I was all over every newspaper in the country being called a racist and a terrible person. My career, for which I'd worked so hard, was in tatters. I was extremely dejected and in despair. And while I wasn't suicidal, I. I was about as low as I've been as an adult in terms of my wellness and my happiness. And you called me. You called me. I was thinking, I'm this hotshot news anchor. I'll help Kevin if he ever goes down again. And you contacted me and said, we're thinking about you, you and Margie. Is there anything we can do? For you, we've got your back. We love you. You know, we don't believe what we're seeing. And it was one of the kindest acts anyone has ever done for me. Honestly, I've. I've. I was always your fan, but in that moment, I just thought, this small deed means more to me than any large act of kindness or gift that I've received in decades. And that's why you and she are at the top for me when it comes to people who have made a difference in my life. And we've kept in touch ever since.

Kevin Hines (105:07)

Wow, Man. I had no idea it had that kind of an impact. I just. I saw what you were going through. I felt it was unfair, and I wanted to reach out. I mean, look, you know, I'm mixed race. I'm part black, and you had me on your show. You know, what. What they. What they claimed you were doing and did was nonsense. And you're an incredibly beautiful human being. You've got a wonderful family, and you're. You're just a gem out there fighting the good fight and doing good work and sharing your messages across the globe. And we wanted you to know that we appreciate you and it. And, you know, here's the bottom line. I. When I said this earlier in the show, I get to be here. I get to walk this green earth every day, every waking moment. I experience this life. And the people I meet, the places I go, the things that I do is a gift that I otherwise would not have had had I died off the Golden Gate bridge. So for 25 years, because I don't know if you know this, but September 25th is the 25th anniversary of my surviving, my living from the Golden Gate Bridge. And I couldn't be more grateful for every waking second, every waking millisecond. And, you know, we're doing something really exciting me, and we're making a film called the Toll, about the toll. Suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge have taken on the bridge patrol, the bridge district themselves, because they've seen some hardship. The Coast Guard, who all have PTSD from the bodies below the bridge that don't get proper services because they're not combat veterans, and all the iron workers that experience suicides while building the net in person. So all of these things are coming together, and it's the toll that suicide takes on the larger community and the toll that easy access to lethal means like opioids and fentanyl take on the largest community community in San Francisco. We are covering all these topics in this film it's going to be incredible and I'm really excited because Robin Williams son Zach Williams is my co producer and it's truly going to be something to behold when this film comes out and something very special that reduces suicides globally and that we share with the world that we that we know will be a catalyst to reducing access to lethal means not just at the Golden Gate Bridge but around the world where suicides are a hotspot and where people die.

Megyn Kelly (107:20)

We're now working tonight we will we'll post it on all of our socials, Kevin when it hits. And in the meantime, support Kevin by buying the art of wellness. Find out more about his story@KevinHouseStory.com God love you. God bless you. Love to Margie too. Thanks for being here, Kevin. What a man. We're back tomorrow. See you then. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No beat yes, no agenda and no fear.