← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Major SCOTUS Victories, and Absurd and Bizarre Bezos-Sanchez Wedding, with Maureen Callahan, Dave Aronberg, and Will Chamberlain
02:23:35
Megyn Kelly celebrates three major victories for the rule of law at the Supreme Court, including on nationwide injunctions, birthright citizenship, and parental rights. Then she's joined by Dave Aronberg and Will Chamberlain, legal experts, to discuss the wins for conservatives in three massive 6-3 rulings at the Supreme Court today, the legal argument between Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Justice Ketanji Brown, and more. Then Maureen Callahan, host of "The Nerve with Maureen Callahan," joins to discuss the closing argument from prosecutors laying out the depth of Diddy’s utter depravity, the overwhelming evidence against Diddy, their new "Megyn O" parody of "Misery" Obama's terrible podcast, Michelle Obama’s latest complaints trashing her husband Barack and children, the secrets of morning television, the falsity of their supposed happiness, what major TV hosts are like behind-the-scenes, the ridiculous wedding of Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez, the exclusive guest list packed with...
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- [00:00]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
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- [00:29]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Oh, my God, there's so much happening. Okay, I just want to show you for those of you watching the show and I'll describe for the listening audience what my morning has looked like. We had the prosecution's closing argument in Diddy, which I follow. These are my notes word by word. I transcribed it as I listened to it twice. I'll explain how I did that in a minute because we're not in there. We don't have actual audio following. Trying to figure out how to track with the evidence and so on. Then came his closing argument. He got up. Not Diddy, but his lawyer tracking that. Okay, trying to figure that one out. What? How did the arguments dovetail? Here we go. Boom. Supreme Court comes out, drops a massive opinion here. Here it is. It's 119 pages. This is whether you can have a nationwide injunction issued by a district court judge to stop the Trump agenda that will like what's been happening. God bless America. The answer's no. Then comes this case, Mahmoud versus Taylor. This is the case. Yay. Authored by Alito. You know you're going to love it when it's an Alito authored piece saying screw you schools that want to say parents don't have a religious right to object to you shoving LGBTQ information down their throats. And K through 5 education. What? I mean, like in a case like that, when you see authored by Justice Alito, you just get down on your knees and you thank the Lord for this Supreme Court. I don't care. Sometimes we get annoyed. Coney, Barrett, Gorsuch, Roberts, they all did the right thing here. Six to three in both of those opinions I just mentioned. Unbelievable. We're going to go through them all. This is on top of just to just so you know, every day my team gives me these huge packets to get me ready for the show. Then they give me the AM update, which is where we got the name for our second, you know, morning show. Like that way I've got my s. Let's go look at all the sound that we have for you today. I can't even. Like there's a lot. Okay, so here's what we're going to do. It's going to be well organized and not as harried as I am. Trump is speaking, by the way. Of course he's speaking now. Reacting, because, like, we don't have enough to cover for you. He's reacting to the Supreme Court. But if he says anything interesting, he's been on script for in the beginning, which isn't as interesting, we'll bring it to you. We're going to start with two very smart lawyers on what happened at SCOTUS and put that in perspective for you. Then Maureen Callahan is going to come on. We may extend the show almost certainly to get into everything we have to do with her, including did he. So we're going to do that. All right, now let me tell you what happened at SCOTUS this morning. Supreme Court of the United States, in the first opinion that was released. This is the last day of the court's term, the Supreme Court severely limited, maybe entirely the ability of district court judges to issue these universal injunctions. This has been Resistance 2.0. This is what they've been using to stop the Trump agenda. And if you could have heard John Sauer, the Solicitor general, go in there to argue this case, he was saying all the things that you and I discuss all the time, like judge judges. They, they, they forum, shop, they pick their favorite federal district court judge in the most liberal jurisdiction, and they go in and ask that guy, gee, hasn't Trump violated the law? And shouldn't we issue a nationwide injunction on that executive order and that executive order and that executive order and, and therefore shut down his entire second term agenda. It's been working. You just find the most liberal judge, you make your case, you get your nationwide injunction, and yet another piece of Trump's agenda is done. And this court was listening. They said, you know what? You're right. And the answer to potential executive overreach is not judicial overreach. Pretending we have more power than we do to stop executive orders, to stop executive initiatives on a nationwide basis as opposed to on a plaintiff by plaintiff basis, where we look at this plaintiff to see if he's adequately alleged harm and decide whether, for example, an executive order should be enjoined in this case. Okay? So as a result of today's ruling, these leftists likely will not be able to march into a far left judge in Boston or in San Francisco or in Washington, D.C. and get a Trump policy they don't like put on hold or ended while their case plays out in the merits, which could take years. This particular case stems from a very interesting issue which, just FYI, has not yet been decided. It's Trump's executive order putting a stop to birthright citizenship, meaning if you're born here, you have citizenship, even if you're born to two illegals. Trump's trying to challenge that, saying the Constitution is actually a little bit more ambiguous than it sounds, and there is some legal support for that. But that case is going to play out on the merits, and eventually there will be a ruling on whether he's right or wrong on that. The justices did not get to that and whether his executive order is constitutional. Instead, they got to whether these lower court judges who had stayed the effect of that order, who have said, you cannot look at babies being born right now to illegals and say that they're not citizens. Lower courts have said, you cannot say that until we've got a final ruling in this case. And the Supreme Court said, okay, you can. You can stay the effect of this executive order as to the named plaintiffs in this case, but we are not okay with the nationwide injunction thing, not in this case necessarily, and not in all cases. We are convinced lower courts don't have that authority. Came down six to three along ideological lines. Justice Amy Coney Barrett writing the majority opinion. The dissents were blistering. They're so upset. So is David Hogg. So, you know, it's a good day. And we'll tell you all about the back and forth that went down between Justice Barrett and Ketanji Brown, Jackson in particular. Rare in another major win that I mentioned a minute ago, the justice is letting Maryland parents opt their children out of classes with LGBTQ storybooks. And don't make any mistake, this ruling is going to be applied well beyond what was being shoved down the throats of these Maryland children. That case was also six to three with Justice Alito writing the opinion. Let me just start it here. Okay. That one was for you, Scott Pelly. We've gone through this together. Moms of Liberty went on 60 Minutes with this guy trying to say, at very young ages, schools are shoving leftist woke ideology down the throats of young children, and it's inappropriate, in particular, sexual materials and LGBTQ materials. And Scott Pelly told America in it wasn't happening. Watch. There are rogue teachers in America's classrooms right now.
- [07:53]
Will Chamberlain
Rogue teachers.
- [07:54]
Megyn Kelly
Rogue teachers. Parents send their children to school to be educated, not Indoctrinated into ideology. What ideology are they being indoctrinated into? Let's just say children in America cannot read. They often dodged questions with talking points.
- [08:11]
Will Chamberlain
You're being evasive.
- [08:13]
Megyn Kelly
21% of students are reading young people. You're being evasive.
- [08:16]
Will Chamberlain
What ideology are the children being indoctrinated into?
- [08:20]
Megyn Kelly
What is your fear? I think parents fears are realized.
- [08:24]
Maureen Callahan
They're looking at these books where sexual.
- [08:27]
Megyn Kelly
Discussions are happening with their children at younger and younger ages. Tiffany justice read from sexually explicit books written for older teens but found in a few lower schools. Most people wouldn't want them in a lower school, but in a tactic of outrage politics. Moms for Liberty takes a kernel of truth and concludes these examples are not rare mistakes, but a plot to sexualize children. You see, that was Moms for Liberty just expounding just a kernel of truth in what they were saying. And then they bastardized this kernel to make a larger point. Screw you, Scott pelley. In a 6 to 3 ruling, the U.S. supreme Court just said it is happening. It's absolutely happening. And parents have a right to say no. Here's Justice Alito. The storybooks here unmistakably convey a particular viewpoint about same sex marriage and gender. And the board has, has specifically encouraged teachers to reinforce this viewpoint and to reprimand any children who disagree. That goes beyond mere exposure. We reject this chilling vision of power of the state to strip away the critical right of parents to guide the religious development of their children. It is happening. It's happening in schools Beyond Maryland. The U.S. supreme Court has recognized it and, and has now just issued a powerful ruling arming parents state to state, coast to coast, with the tools they need to shut it down when it comes to their child. You're woke. You want to let your kid go in there and learn about chopping off his penis when he's 12. More power to you, sister. I think think it's abuse. I think it's sad for your child. You want that? I think it's sick for a teacher, a school district to offer it at all. But there's zero chance I'm letting my child sit there. And as everybody listening to this show knows, I have not just talked that talk. I've walked that walk. It's why we left our schools in New York. As I documented at the time, we left schools we had previously loved because they tried to indoctrinate our children on the issue of gender and race. And we had had it. And now we finally have a Supreme Court decision saying we were right. Schools don't have the right to do this to our children. This ruling says religious grounds will give you the power you need to get your child out of it. That's not going to be a problem for most of our listeners. Most of us are religious people. Not all of us, but most of us have a good faith, religious belief that what is happening here is deeply wrong in the K through five school districts and can use this. But it'll be expanded beyond this because parental rights are not limited to those who are faithful. It's been a great day at the U.S. supreme Court. Great. Here to break it all down for us, our friend Dave Ehrenberg. He is the author of the new book Fighting the Florida Shuffle, the Inside story of Corruption in the Drug Treatment Industry and How One Community Found the solution, along with Will Chamberlain, who is not Mike Davis. Mike couldn't be here today, but Will is Senior counsel at Mike's Article 3 project is, I mean, just as every bit as smart as Mike Davis. Will, don't tell him I said that and has been on the program before. Great to see you guys. Spring is here and summer is around the corner. With sweatpants season finally over, it's time to swap those winter sweats for outfits that turn heads when you are looking to refresh your wardrobe. Dave, Daily look has you covered. A fantastic personal styling service for women. With Daily look, you get your own dedicated stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. These are real personal stylists, not an algorithm. And you get the same stylist every time. You start by filling out their style quiz and sharing your price range and lifestyle preferences. Then they Send up to 12 handpicked items straight to your home. You try them on, keep what you love and send back the rest. And and the best part, Daily look covers shipping both ways. Whether you need something chic for the office or you want to upgrade from last year's sundress, Daily look has you covered. Head on over to Daily Look.com to take your style quiz and use code Megan for 50% off your first order. That's DailyLook.com for 50% off. And make sure you use my promo code Megan, so they know I sent you DailyLook.com promo code M E G.
- [13:09]
Dave Ehrenberg
Y N. Great to be back, Megan.
- [13:12]
Will Chamberlain
Yeah, always good to be back. Thank you.
- [13:14]
Megyn Kelly
Let me start with you as the conservative Will. What a day.
- [13:19]
Will Chamberlain
Yeah. I mean, on the nationwide injunction front, you're right. This basically ends the practice of nationwide injunctions in the Absence of a class action lawsuit. And that's a really, really good thing because it's very hard to get a class action certified. And if you do, then if the government wins, there can't be any more suits on the topic. So it's a huge W in terms of stopping the warfare against the administration. And on the case that you're talking about, Mahmoud retailer, that's another huge win. I mean, and it's funny, I was just thinking to myself listening to you. In a sensible society, we wouldn't be discussing whether or not parents had the right to opt out of this instruction. We would be discussing whether the people proffering this instruction should be criminally prosecuted. It's appalling that this is even happening. And so maybe we'll get there eventually. And an interesting Supreme Court case would whether those people might have a First Amendment defense to criminal prosecution as a result of trying to indoctrinate our children in this way.
- [14:12]
Megyn Kelly
Before I go to Dave, do you think this will be, this will be the first step in expanding the ruling eventually to just parents? Parents have a right to pull their child. You don't have to necessarily. Like, what about free speech or ideological grounds? Does it always have to be based on religion? What do you think?
- [14:28]
Will Chamberlain
Yeah, I think so. I mean, because in a sense, it's its own kind of religious doctrine, just not in the form of a religion. Right. It's a, it's a kind of all these claims that they're making are these bizarre metaphysical claims about the nature of man and woman that have no scientific grounding. They're they're just as, you know, essentially, they're, they're bizarre metaphysical claims, honestly, that are religious in nature, except that there's no deity involved.
- [14:52]
Megyn Kelly
That, I mean, it's just so huge on a couple of fronts. I mean, what do you make of that claim, Dave, that back on the injunctions case that this really has been Resistance 2.0 and it was dealt a major blow today?
- [15:04]
Dave Ehrenberg
You know, it's interesting, Megan, and thanks for having me back. Good to be with Will. He's like the mild mannered Mike Davis and he really is, though.
- [15:14]
Megyn Kelly
Totally.
- [15:16]
Dave Ehrenberg
I try to remind my Democratic friends on my side of the aisle that Democrats hated nationwide injunctions as well. Remember when methapristone, the abortion drug, was banned nationwide because one conservative judge in Texas who was picked for that reason issued a nationwide injunction and people on the left were outraged by it. So this cuts both ways. It's just that this is being done during the Trump presidency and There is a way out. You can try to get a class action or you can try to convince the judge that a nationwide injunction is still necessary to afford complete relief. So you can still make that argument. But you know, this was a long time coming because there's been a lot of frustrations with these nationwide injunctions. It will make it tougher, though, to stop President Trump's actions. That's true. So it's still a big win for those who are supportive of MAGA and Donald Trump. If I can just say one other thing, Megan, a little bit off topic, you mentioned my book. Do you know that the title of my book, Fighting the Florida Shuffle, comes from you? I don't know if you realize that.
- [16:25]
Megyn Kelly
No, I didn't know that.
- [16:27]
Dave Ehrenberg
Well, a few years ago I was on your show when you had the NBC show and you did a whole segment on the Florida shuffle. So this title, it all comes back to Megyn Kelly years later. The scams within the drug treatment industry, the fraud that exists, which is enabled, unfortunately, by well intended laws like the Affordable Care Act. It continues. And that's why I wrote this book and it showed how we fought it here in Palm Beach County. But this title comes from a segment you did years ago.
- [16:54]
Megyn Kelly
That's a great idea. You're turning into Alan Dershowitz finding a way to get your book reference in to any hit about it. And it was smart, smart marketing. And I support the book and you. So good on you. Thank you. Can we talk, Will, about the fight between Amy Coney Barrett and Ketanji Brown Jackson, who dissented Ketanji Brown Jackson in the nationwide injunctions case? I thought it was smart that they had Coney Barrett write the majority opinion. She hasn't written that many. She's becoming kind of, well, loathed by many on the right for siding with the libs. And I think it was probably no accident that Roberts said, why don't you take this one and restore some of your good order, possibly with the right. And it wasn't just that she sided with the six conservatives to uphold Trump's right to do this, at least for now, to not be subjected to nationwide injunctions. But it's now pitted her against a very unpopular member of the Supreme Court with the right. And those two went at it. Amy Coney Barrett in one instance, basically saying, your argument is too dumb for me to respond to. She says, here, I'll read just part of it. We will not dwell on Justice Jackson's argument, which is at odds with more than two centuries worth of precedent, not to mention the Constitution itself. We observe only this. Justice Jackson decries an imperial executive while embracing an imperial judiciary. Go ahead.
- [18:21]
Will Chamberlain
Yeah. I think the thing to keep in mind here is that's not just a concurring opinion where one judge is expressing their anger. Six justices signed on to an opinion that treats Justice Jackson's dissent as silly and infantile. And that's not a good sign for Justice Jackson's influence on the Court more broadly. You have to think that the six conservative justices found her arguments not just so, not just wrong, but kind of offensive and silly in order to put prose like that in a majority opinion of the Court. So I think it's really reflective of how little respect the conservative justices have for her legal reasoning.
- [19:01]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. There was another line where they say the principal dissent focuses on conventional legal terrain, like the Judiciary act of 1789 in our cases on equity. Justice Jackson, however, chooses a startling line of attack that is tethered neither to those sources nor, frankly, to any doctrine whatsoever. And they. They go on. I mean, they just continue pummeling her in the majority opinion. Truly, if you read between the lines, it's. You're too dumb for us to argue with. These arguments are beneath contempt, and they're so unpersuasive and sophomoric, but we're just not even going to devote the time. Your thoughts on it, Dave?
- [19:38]
Dave Ehrenberg
Well, I've known Justice Jackson since high school. She and I did high school debate. She was the best of the. Yeah.
- [19:45]
Megyn Kelly
Were you on her team or you were against her?
- [19:48]
Dave Ehrenberg
Well, we went to the same summer program together, but we were on from different schools, so I was never on her team. But she was always, I must say, the best. In South Florida and Florida, everyone knew her, and she really was outstanding. And then I knew her in college, and then I knew her in law school, and so I have a lot of respect for her, I must admit. I did not focus on her dissent. I focus on the main dissent, Justice Sotomayor's dissent. So I can't speak to the language, although it is unusual for a majority to be so dismissive of a dissent. So I'll give you that. I thought it was interesting in Justice Sotomayor's defense, in her dissent that she focused not just on the history of nationwide injunctions, but also that this was a gimmick by the Trump administration. This was a way around the fact that they knew they were gonna lose on the issue of birthright citizenship. So instead they appealed the more popular issue of the nationwide injunctions. Knowing they can win on that, but they're not gonna win on birthright citizenship. So essentially, she's saying, this is gamesmanship. Don't let them play this game. And the Supreme Court is allowing them to do so.
- [20:55]
Megyn Kelly
And she's saying that they fell for it, whether it's gamesmanship or not. Well, it worked. It worked like a charm because the Trump administration has gotten a nationwide injunction against virtually every executive order that he issued in that first week in office, when we were celebrating like it was Christmas. Bit by bit, they've been shut down, and it's just gotten out of control. And the court acknowledges this. And Dave's right. Nationwide injunctions have upset the left and thrilled the right in the past. I was one of the thrilled people when we got a nationwide injunction against Biden's changes to Title nine, and I loved that. And it was shut down by one judge for everyone across the nation. So I'm not going to be able to have that moment anymore if we get another Democrat president in. But the Supreme Court was making a valid point from John Sauer, which was, yes, this has been happening for some time in more recent history, but it's gotten out of control.
- [21:51]
Will Chamberlain
Well, yeah, And I don't agree with Justice Sotomayor's position that this is gamesmanship, I think for two reasons. One, I think the administration will expect that there's going to be an attempt at a class action filed in the birthright citizenship cases. And I would be surprised if a class action wasn't certified at some point, because you have. The injury is pretty common across everybody who might be injured. The idea that your children might not be citizens because you yourself were not born in the country or you were. You yourself are not either a permanent resident or illegal citizen. So I don't. I don't think there's a gamesmanship in that regard. I think they're going to eventually confront. The administration knows it will eventually have to confront the constitutionality of birthright citizenship. So I don't think this is a game to get out of that. And then second, I think that it's not as simple as, oh, this is just, obviously they're going to lose. There's a lot of a precedent for the idea that birthright citizenship is just a misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. I mean, the simplest empirical example of why that's probably true is that American Indians don't have birthright citizenship. They had to be granted citizenship by statute in 1924, 60 years after the passage of the 14th Amendment. And that's because everybody understood that even though they're on American territory and subject to the sovereignty of the United States, they still had allegiance to their Indian tribes. And given that, given that they actually were born and reside on the territory of the United States and so did all their parents, and yet they weren't granted birthright citizenship, the idea that it would obviously apply to the children of illegal aliens, I think is certainly not guaranteed and certainly not obvious.
- [23:30]
Megyn Kelly
I think there's a real fight coming there, too. But it does raise an interesting issue, Dave, on what happens now, because now the plaintiffs involved in these particular cases who sued are not going to get bounced out because the babies are born to two illegals. Right. The court says, you know, in the named plaintiffs cases, they can have the relief they're seeking, and the district court judge has to figure out exactly what that looks like. But since it doesn't apply beyond the name plaintiffs necessarily, we're not exactly sure, because the. The Supreme Court's kicking it back down to the district court to issue, like, an additional ruling. What's going to happen does, like, every. Let's say, I mean, it's got to be a situation where both parents are illegal, right? Or like, the mother gives birth to the child and the mother is here illegally, because if the father were an American citizen, it would still have American citizenship. So, anyway, my point is, does every illegal couple across America now need to go file a lawsuit to try to keep their kid in. In the United States or able to get Social Security, you know, papers and so on? We all get the kid's number when he's born. It's, like, unclear to me, based on what I read this morning, how that's all going to play out now.
- [24:48]
Dave Ehrenberg
Yeah, I think that this is ripe for a class action. I think that's the attack that the advocates will do. And I think that this we tied up for the court. So I don't think anyone's going to be deported who otherwise would be allowed to stay in the United States because of birthright citizenship.
- [25:01]
Megyn Kelly
And.
- [25:01]
Dave Ehrenberg
And I think the Trump administration acknowledged that it would be an uphill climb to get the Supreme Court to rule their way, because they could have sought a stay on the issue of birthright citizenship, but they didn't. They sought a stay based on the nationwide injunction issue, which tells you that I think they know themselves this is an uphill climb. So I think where this has an impact is on all the other issues out there, where there are nationwide injunctions against Trump's other actions. That's going to be a problem for those who disagree with the president's decisions there because I don't think that there will be anyone deported under this ruling, but I do think that there will be people who may be deported based on other decisions that the President has made.
- [25:43]
Megyn Kelly
This here, another one just crossed the transom. Six to three. The U.S. supreme Court upholds a Texas law requiring users to verify their age to access points porn sites. The first major test. Quoting here from the Washington Post. The first major legal test of statutes in two dozen states aimed at protecting young people from lewd content that has become ever easier to view. In a 6 to 3 ruling, the justices rejected arguments from the porn industry that the law violates the First Amendment rights of adults to access explicit content online because it required users to share identifying information that could be sold, misused, or hacked. The court's three liberals dissented and dissent. Justice Elena Kagan joined by Sotomayor and Brown. Jackson said while it was a reasonable goal to try to protect minors from lewd material online, that should not come at the expense of the rights of adults. Well, I'm loving the Supreme Court, and these three libs are exposing themselves for who they are.
- [26:42]
Will Chamberlain
Yeah, it's another one of these cases where I have a hard time really understanding the dissent. I'll be honest. I'm not super familiar with this case and the legal arguments, like the First Amendment arguments at stake here. But, you know, you can't go to a store and purchase a pornographic magazine without showing ID to do so. The idea that that wouldn't translate to the online environment seems kind of obviously wrong and would defeat much of the purpose of obscenity laws if it didn't hold. Because most obscenity is accessed over the Internet.
- [27:12]
Megyn Kelly
It's so crazy. It's great to see. Look, I'm happy for all these rulings, but the one that I'm happiest about is, is on the lewd material in classrooms. It's, it's. This was a sensible ruling. And you know, I've said before, if you're a conservative justice and you're on the wrong side of justice Alito, you've done something wrong. You need to reevaluate. This was six three. So good for them. Six three. Six three six three. On all the cases that matter today. Loving what I'm seeing. Thrilled, Dave. Thank you. Will you as well. What a day. I mean, I got to tell you guys, I, I, you know, you can let these guys go. I don't need to stick around for my, my rants. But I covered the high court for, I mean, I was a lawyer, as you know, for about a decade. I covered the high court for FOX News and ABC News for years. And we've just never had a court like this. And I realize some of them, we love some of them a little bit more than we love some others of them. But when the chips are down and the law requires a win for the right, we do have six justices willing to do it. We do. When the law is just clear and the left has gone too far in their excess, we have six. That's so much better than five justices willing to do it. So this bodes well on a number of issues that are likely to go up to the Supreme Court during the Trump presidency in particular. And I think we can be heartened to know that even the justices we may not love as much as we love Alito and Thomas, when the chips are down, tend to do the right thing. Okay. We hope. Let's see. Still not really over the Gorsuch thing on the trans ruling, but that's gonna come back up, too. Okay, Maureen Callahan is here. We have so much to do with her. We've got our Michelle Obama parody and its world premiere. And I am, you know, I'm neck deep on the one side with the Supreme Court and I'm neck deep on the other side with the ditty closing arguments on both sides. Defense is going right now. I'll tell you everything they're both saying and what I think of how it's going. Okay, you want to know about something positive and upbeat? Well, I've been telling you about Firecracker Farm hot salt. It's been a show stopping gift and a must have item for anyone who enjoys spicing up their food. So what is hot salt, you might be asking yourself? It's sea salt infused with a blend of hot pepper that's made by a wonderful little family company. It comes in sleek stainless steel push grinders that feel great in hand and are really satisfying to use. Their motto is everything is better with hot salt. And based on the reviews, customers are in full agreement. So give it a try. Go to Firecracker Farm right now and use code MK at checkout for a special discount. Yes, that's Firecracker Farm, code mk. Get some hot salt before it's all gone. You'll thank me.
- [30:03]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
Trump country is booming. We're building, hiring and winning in America because energy tax credits create jobs and put America first.
- [30:12]
Megyn Kelly
Jobs and factories will come roaring back into our country More production at home will mean stronger competition and lower prices for consumers.
- [30:21]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
And America's comeback depends on American energy. President Trump, keep what works. Don't repeal energy tax credits. Learn more at Built for America US Paid for by Built for America.
- [30:35]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly show on a busy Friday afternoon. Joining me now, the host of one of the hottest new shows on the Internet. Thrilled. It's part of our MK Media podcast network. It's called the Nerve with Maureen Callahan. Maureen, welcome back. Great to see you.
- [30:51]
Maureen Callahan
It's great to see you, Megan. Oh, my God, I've missed you.
- [30:55]
Megyn Kelly
I know. Same. I'm listening to you all the time. You're crushing it. I find you so entertaining and so fun. The troublemakers in you have become a must listen for me. And who would be surprised? All right.
- [31:07]
Maureen Callahan
There's so much that is high praise.
- [31:09]
Megyn Kelly
I'm like overwhelmed by the amount of news that we're looking at here. So we gotta do the Diddy trial. I'm going to play some sound bites from the prosecution's closing. The way I'm able to do that is one of my favorite Twitter accounts for staying up on Diddy trial news is at Diddy Trial Daily. I don't know who's behind it, but he's doing a great job. And so at Ditty trial daily voiced 22 minutes of the prosecution's five hour closing argument and kind of brought us in. Now we can see the transcripts ourselves, but it's always nice to have somebody reading it and kind of bring it to life. And so when we play sound bites from the prosecution's closing argument, which was done by a woman, not by this guy who's a man. But in any event, you'll hear these excerpts. It's just from this guy on the Internet who I follow, who's been following the, the case very closely. Okay, here are I, I'm just going to go through it. Maureen, Some of these, here's what the prosecution said. I got to put on my little reading glasses. My, my, my writing. Would you look at my writing? It's really terrible. I don't know if you can see this, but it's just, it's terrible.
- [32:21]
Maureen Callahan
Mine's way worse. I've seen it. Mine's way worse.
- [32:24]
Megyn Kelly
It looks like a stenographer, only without the clever, you know, clues for shortening words. Okay. The prosecutor says, first of all, this guy led a criminal organization and said, look at two incidents just, just to keep this in your head. March 2016, the Intercontinental when he beat her and we all saw the tape. 2024, when he choked and hit Jane, the next girlfriend, the most recent girlfriend, as she tried to escape, he beat the hell out of her and then made her do a hotel night, you know, a night of debauchery or a freak off night, whatever. Time and time again they talked about how with Jane in particular, she would beg him to just have a normal relationship, to show her any sort of normal affection, saying, I'm not an animal, I'm not a. I'm not a porn star. I just want to have a normal relationship with you. I. And he'd say, okay, okay, okay. And he'd say, we're gonna go out to dinner. And they'd show that he had ordered the sex worker as soon as he hung up with her, like. And after he beat her, he called a sex worker after they had. After she was crying after two sex partners at one of these freak offs or hotel nights. She threw up, said, I can't do this. And he said, you get back out there, you gotta do number three. And she, like, that's what the prosecution, starting with you remember. Just to kick it off, 2016, Hotel InterContinental in LA. What happened to Cassie when she tried to leave a freak off? He got beaten up in front of our very eyes on that tape. 2024, he choked and hit Jane as she tried to escape because he was determined to watch her do what he wanted to watch her do. They talked about how this is, well, I gotta put my glasses back on. They said he relied on his wealth and his power to place himself above the law. And his staff helped him. It was a combs enterprise and it existed to serve him. He named the names within the enterprise. Kk, his sort of chief of staff and others who helped trap the women supplied cash and drugs across state lines. That alone is sufficient, they said, to get him on racketeering. And they said he himself engaged in purchased funnel drugs. He's guilty of kidnapping, of arson, of bribery, of sex trafficking of both Cassandra and Jane. He forced labor them into labor those women into doing this. And also one of his other staffers who he kidnapped and brought over to Kid Cuddies. He said he engaged in travel for commercial sex, meaning he hired sex workers. The drug distribution was critical to the freak offs and many helped get the drugs to Cassie Ventura and to Jane at every freak off. Capricorn Clark is the woman who he kidnapped and brought with him to Kid Cuddies. And also she testified that we talked about this last time you were on Maureen. She's the one who says she was kidnapped by so called Uncle Paulie who worked for Diddy, dragged to some building in Manhattan. And maybe we didn't talk about this. Maybe I'm just thinking about you talking about on the nerve and me talking about here. Anyway, dragged there and given a lie detector test for five days to see if she stole some jewels from Kit from, from Sean Combs. And they're saying, look, this is, this is not legal. You can't do this. They talked about the kidnapping and they talked about Kid Cudi in a part that was very interesting. Here's again our friend at Diddy Daily reading the part about Kid Cudi.
- [35:49]
Tiffany Justice
In January of 2012, Combs orchestrated this whole arson on Kid Cudi's car. A hole was cut in the roof and and a Molotov cocktail was dropped in. And we know it was Mr. Combs because Voights voice notes captured Combs threats to blow up the car. And Cudi had no other conflicts except for with Combs. And then Drock later brought Cudi to Combs where Combs apologized. So we know that that was him.
- [36:17]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so that was the Kid Cudi thing then. I'm just gonna play one other sound bite and I'll bring you in, Maureen. On it. They talked about Jane, the other key witness and how she wrote to him saying I don't want to do this. Like I said, I'm not an animal. And I don't, I'm not into this at all. Like I want a real relationship. I don't want to just be used as your circus animal. And how he responded to her. I'm about to disappear on you. You get on your job. Here's that. It sat again, read by Diddy Daly.
- [36:51]
Tiffany Justice
Jane's case began with love bombing. She was smitten. There were trips to the Caribbean. Dr. Hughes calls this love bombing stage a grooming. A grooming tactic. Combs gave Jane ecstasy. It caused her convulsions. He made her put baby oil all over herself. He made her wear lingerie. He loved red lights. In May of 2021, high and eager to please, Jane joined a freak off with an escort. Initially she was excited, but she didn't see it dominating her life and the relationship. She texted Sean her desire to stop wanting non activity hotels. But Combs ignored her. He was serving his desires. He would dictate how long they would last. He would make her request nude photos from male escorts for his benefit. When she would ask to use a condom, he would be condescending. When she would Try to speed up. He would make her slow down. He dangled gifts and money and unfulfilled promises in front of her. You saw texts where Jane wrote, I don't want you to use me to fulfill your freaky, wild desires. In hotel rooms. He'd write back saying, look at the roof over your head and your pretty mouth and teeth. Leveraging the rent that he had paid and the veneers that he had paid for. For an all star party, he demanded she had sex with three men. She sent pictures of period blood to resist. In a voice note, you heard him say, I'm about to really disappear on you. I don't have time for this. You got me on my job, now you get on your job.
- [38:42]
Megyn Kelly
Maureen. Devastating.
- [38:45]
Maureen Callahan
That is so brutal. That note about the period as just trying any. Any means necessary to get this guy off of her metaphorical neck for a minute. You know, I'm so grateful that the Cassie video is out there. The world.
- [39:03]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [39:03]
Maureen Callahan
I think without that video, the defense would have had a much easier time convincing, again, a very, very sophisticated, hardened jury, that this is nothing more than lovers spats over. Over one partner's sexual preferences and, you know, a fetishization of baby oil that, frankly, is Warholian. But I think I'll be shocked if he's not found guilty. I'll be shocked. You know, I remember talking to you about this last time I was with you, and I asked you as a lawyer when he went after Cassie when she was trying to run out of that hotel room at that elevator bank, and he grabbed her and threw her to the floor and dragged her back to that room. Does that legally constitute kidnapping? And you said yes without hesitation. How can they not find him guilty of at least that count?
- [39:51]
Megyn Kelly
And they're arguing. See, I think part of the problem people have in understanding this case is the misunderstanding of what sex trafficking is. Racketeering, that's a whole other thing. But they're trying to show he's like a crime boss with all these people who work for him who are enforcing his. His orders to commit crimes. And it's like, I guess we just sort of roll our eyes and say, like, oh, he's a rocker. Like, he's a music mogul. They all do drugs. Well, you know what? It's still illegal. They all use prostitutes. Okay? It's still illegal. They all have guns. Well, it may or may not be illegal depending on the nature of the gun and the in its use. They don't all commit arson or kidnap or brutally batter repeated women they, they don't bribe hotel security guards to hide tapes of their beatings. They don't allegedly go to nightclubs and shoot somebody in the face. He denies that somebody else was found guilty for it, but that man claims it did. He actually did it. Okay. In any event, what the prosecution is showing is this has gone so far beyond like mild law breaking, for lack of a better term, that you might even assume your average rap mogul has engaged in. It's just so far beyond. And on the sex trafficking they're trying to show, they have to show that these women were sort of forced. Not sort of, that they were forced to perform sex at these hotel nights or debauchery nights or freak offs without their consent. And the prosecution point out it's, it's not a problem for us if they consented to some. We only have to show that there was one that they didn't consent to. And by the way, mid freak off, you can withdraw your consent. And if he continues to force you, from that point forward, he's guilty. And the sex trafficking, it, yes, it can happen where like there's an international ring and they kidnap young girls and they force them to perform sexual, you know, behavior for creepy old men. That's a form of it. But I learned this when I went over to NBC and did, you know, a lot different kind of segments, softer segments. The only upside of NBC sex trafficking in America looks very different. And what happens in a lot of cases is you'll have online dating where the girl shows up ready to date somebody she met online and she finds out while she's in his car driving to their dinner, he knows about her, her three year old son because he did his homework on her and he brings her to a hotel and says, you're gonna go in there and you're gonna screw these next three guys or your son gets it. That is absolutely sex trafficking, forcing someone to perform a sexual act by force or threat. And so that's how you have to understand the Diddy case. They're saying these women were threatened with their livelihoods, which he controlled with embarrassment because he'd already gotten them on camera performing these things when they still thought they loved him. And he loved them with professional embarrassment, with a beat down, another physical beatdown, which both of them had testified. He served them multiple times and so on. And so like that, they were no more free to say no to those freak offs than this woman who is, by the way, it's a real case that I just outlined whose son was under threat if she didn't go through with suddenly becoming a forced prostitute.
- [43:09]
Maureen Callahan
I mean, I think the. The evidence is overwhelming. I would like to think again, post Harvey, that there's been a much more nuanced understanding of what constitutes a victim of rape, sexual abuse, and or sex trafficking. To your point, it's the same with rape, Right? Your husband can rape you. You know that marital rape, I think, is a relatively new statute on the books. Am I correct?
- [43:34]
Megyn Kelly
It's been around for decades, but there was a time in this country, like, around the 1950s, where you could not rape your wife legally.
- [43:41]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. That to me, feels like the blink of an eye. You know, the Diddy thing. You know what I wonder? How much do you think, because human beings are human beings, that emotionality is going to play into this verdict? Because there were multiple reports that the times that the jury was forced to watch those videos of the freak offs, that. That at least half of them looked visibly ill. Mm.
- [44:07]
Megyn Kelly
I think the jury's gonna do the right thing. And. And that's a conviction. I actually think he's gonna be convicted on all three counts. Racketeering for sex trafficking, and obviously the traffic or the transport of sex workers across state lines. That one they just should have pleaded guilty to because it's just they have him dead to rights. The only defense to that, it was offered in the defense's opening where they suggested they weren't coming for sex. He wanted to talk about, like, their feelings. He wanted. He just wanted them to come for, like, emotional support. Like. Oh, it's like. Would you just. Just admit that one? Okay. In any event, he's definitely going down. If he doesn't go down on that, it's total juri jury nullification. That's. That's kind of the one that will show us whether this jury was just enamored with his fame and fortune and power. If he's found not guilty on the, you know, traveling people for sex trafficking or for. For prostitution, because he very clearly did that, there's really no defense. But I think he's going to be found guilty on all three of the charges. And what's happening now is kind of interesting because you've got Agniphilo. He's the lead defense counsel up there doing his closing. And Agniphilo, again, just as a reminder for the audience, represented the Nexium cult founder Keith Ranieri. From my hometown, we're known for more than this. Albany, New York.
- [45:26]
Maureen Callahan
Well, two stars out of there.
- [45:28]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, right. Two stars. And it. It failed. He did the Same thing that he's doing now with this jury, which is like, oh, this is utter nonsense. I'm looking for my papers on him. Oh, this is utter nonsense. Oh, this is. Here it is. You're smarter than that. And the jury was like, we are smart and we see right through you. But here's, here's some highlights of his defense. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, let's talk about who Sean Combs really is. He's a self made black entrepreneur. Had to get that in there, Maureen. A visionary. A man who built real businesses. Businesses so successful and groundbreaking that major players chose to partner with him. Don't take my word for it. Derek Ferguson told you that himself. He was a witness. You think it's easy to be Sean Combs? It's not. How many witnesses sat in that chair and admitted they were pushed, challenged, even changed by him? Those assistants, they said it felt like Harvard Business School, they were pushed so hard. Did they like it? No. But did they grow from it? Absolutely. They didn't always like him, but let's be honest, they loved him. Even the ones suing him today. Now, by the way, all of that, I could actually say that about my team. I think I push my staff to the point where it's like a Harvard Business School education and that maybe they don't always like it, but they grow from it. But, but I didn't actually ask them to like give me drugs or clean up after my sex romps or I didn't kidnap them and subject them to law detector lie detectors, as I didn't bring them with me for a kidnapping or an arson against somebody else. I don't force them to get my drugs. It's a long list. I mean, our summer interns right outside my office door here, I'm sure she can attest, really, what she's been doing mostly is bringing me paper. So in any event, it's like this generic defense, Maureen, for like horrific things. And then one other thing. He goes back to the race. Okay, so this guy took the stand, this Derek Ferguson. He's from the Bronx. He told you there weren't many hiring people like me, but Sean Combs did. Why? Because he saw talent. He built something bigger than himself. Because real diversity, not just performative. DEI was something he lived. And he was doing it at 24 years old, long before it was trendy, long before it was corporate policy. And what do prosecutors call it? Racketeering. That's the story they're trying to sell you. What, he's not on trial for Being a racist. This is such a non sequitur.
- [47:47]
Maureen Callahan
He's just a black businessman trying to make his bones in America, Meghan. He should have had Sunny Hostin on his defense team. By the way, I think the one thing you missed in sort of the, like, school of, I'm bringing you up through the school of hard knocks. I'm going to teach you how it's done. Done. Dangling people off of balconies. One of Sean Combs's alleged go to moves, which is just. I mean, this guy is so dangerous, lest we forget, he. He attempted to get bail three times and he was smacked down every single time. And the main reason was the threat that the government believed he posed to potential or existing witnesses against him in this case. I mean, he is a dangerous, dangerous guy. I agree with you. I think he will be found guilty. I think he will be living out his days at mdc, fighting it out with the likes of Luigi Mangioni for popularity clicks and likes. And also, I'm very curious, what did you make of. Because originally we had been told that the defense had three witnesses they were going to put on two of whom had been ex bad boy employees of Sean Combs. And then a few days ago, they announced, no, nobody. We're going to put nobody up. We're just going to go straight to closing arguments.
- [48:57]
Megyn Kelly
We.
- [48:57]
Maureen Callahan
What do you make of that strategy?
- [49:00]
Megyn Kelly
They're relying on their cross examinations of the prosecution's witnesses, some of which were very effective. You know, the dangling over the balcony lady kind of fell apart on cross. I don't believe that it was a lie, but they certainly, they had reason to believe that was a lie because she said she was injured and she showed pictures. And the injuries from that she showed were from a date when Sean Diddy was out of the country. So they did a good job on the defense in crossing some of these witnesses with, with what they had. You know, their whole thing is. I'll give you, I'll give you the line. Okay, back to agniphilo. Poor Sean Combs. That's my word. They didn't say poor, but that's what they're trying to say. He gets arrested, his home is raided, property destroyed. A special response team, like we're dealing with a terrorist, not a businessman, bursts in, no cameras allowed, no accountability, just chaos. His children were there, six of them sitting in this courtroom, second row, the seventh, still a baby. This is the man they want to reduce to headlines and sound bites. A man who takes care of people, pays for them. So what do they, do they wrap metaphorical yellow crime scene tape not around a murder scene, but around Sean Combs bedroom, his hotel rooms, his personal relationships? They're not investigating crimes, they're criminalizing private choices. This, I have to say, I like, I don't buy, but I like it as a clever legal way around the facts for this, for this defense team.
- [50:29]
Maureen Callahan
You know, it just broke today, by the way, that Sean Combs and one of his sons, I wonder if it's one of them who is in the courtroom right now, are being sued for I believe $30 million for rape. And I remember reading about this accusation. I think it happened on a boat, I'm not sure, but I can't imagine the jurors haven't seen that. And that, that I know they're supposed to only deal with the facts in front of them submitted as evidence and whatever the defense puts on as their cross and their defense. But I just think a New York jury knows exactly who this guy is. We've been living with Sean Combs in New York since the early 90s at least. You know, I remember that, that, that event he put on. He escaped criminal prosecution, but it was an overcrowded venue that he promoted and people died in a stampede.
- [51:15]
Megyn Kelly
He's had an above the law attitude and existence for 30 some years now and it finally caught up with him. Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American dream starts with purpose. By honoring your career calling, you can impact your family, friends and your community. Change the world for good by putting others before yourself. Whether your pursuit involves a dip, a bachelor's, a master's or doctoral degree, GCU's online, on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal and professional goals. With over 340 academic programs as of September 2024, GCU meets you where you and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Private Christian affordable visit gcu.edu I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Ben Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad for free music, coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast, and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and.
- [53:11]
Tiffany Justice
Get three months free.
- [53:13]
Dave Ehrenberg
That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free.
- [53:19]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
Offer details apply Trump country is booming. We're building, hiring and winning in America because energy tax credits create jobs and put America first.
- [53:30]
Megyn Kelly
Jobs and factories will come roaring back into our country. More production at home will mean stronger competition and lower prices for consumers.
- [53:39]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
And America's comeback depends on American energy. President Trump Keep what works. Don't repeal energy tax credits. Learn more at Built For America US Paid for by Built for America we all know Americans are still recovering from years of surging prices. Now, some of those in Congress want to make cuts to Medicaid, a program that provides critical health care to 72 million struggling Americans, including veterans, people with disabilities, kids, and your friends and neighbors. 40% of American births are covered by Medicaid, and Medicaid covers health care costs for a third of children with cancer. Working families rely on this program. It has 77% support. Nearly 9 in 10Americans oppose Medicaid cuts. Did you know that 12 million Medicaid families live in rural communities? Many of these people voted for President Trump, but they didn't vote for this. If Congress cuts Medicaid, a lot of rural hospitals could close and a lot of rural families will be hurt. No matter how you look at it, cutting Medicaid just doesn't make sense. Tell Congress not to cut Medicaid. Our health and our communities depend on it.
- [54:54]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. I'm Maureen Callahan, host of the Nerve with Maureen Callahan is back with me now. You can go and subscribe to her show. Highly recommend you do so. It's called thenerveshow.com that's the website you can go to to make sure that you are subscribed. Never miss an episode. YouTube. It's also available and wherever you get your podcasts for free. Again, the Nerve with Maureen Callahan. All right, there's more to talk about on Diddy, but I want to pause it because it's important that we bring the audience our world premiere before, you know, before it's too late. Maureen and I have become, in addition to astronauts, professional actresses. And we've been booked on many high profile gigs. We've got definitely more audience watching our acting gigs than watch many of the things that have made others stars in Hollywood. So, yeah, we're legit. That's what you need to know. And we got the gang back together because there was somebody we found so annoying, so constantly complaining, so cringy that we felt the need to mercilessly mock her. Those are really the ingredients that will bring us out of our day jobs and have us put our acting caps back on. And really, we could think of no more worthy candidate than Michelle Obama, who, as you know, has launched a podcast along with her brother Craig, who sits there as her supplicant episode after episode. It's not doing well. She's going on other people's podcasts to try to sell it. It's not working. And we have figured out why it is not working and she is not selling. And I believe it will become apparent to all of you in the following world premiere of Megan O. Megan O.
- [56:41]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
Is one of America's most admired former first ladies.
- [56:45]
Megyn Kelly
Seriously, is there anyone more inspiring? I mean, who doesn't love Megan O choice for president?
- [56:50]
Maureen Callahan
There's really no one else who is more popular than her.
- [56:52]
Megyn Kelly
Megan O. Is on the COVID of Vogue the.
- [56:55]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
For the 12th time.
- [56:56]
Megyn Kelly
I think she's living her best life. I think she's doing whatever the hell.
- [56:59]
Michelle Obama
She wants, wearing whatever the hell she.
- [57:01]
Megyn Kelly
Wants, putting her hair in whatever shape she wants it. Megan O. Didn't just, you know, fill the first lady role.
- [57:07]
Will Chamberlain
She actually reshaped it.
- [57:08]
Michelle Obama
I got an advanced copy of what everybody's calling the book of the season.
- [57:11]
Megyn Kelly
And I loved it so much, I've already read it twice. Former first lady Megan O. Is launching a new podcast today. And not just some. She's doing it with her sister Maureen. Now, prepare to be inspired and uplifted like never before. Here is former first lady Megan O. I've been doing the work and going to therapy and just figuring out, like, what happened those eight years we were in the White House.
- [57:43]
Michelle Obama
What happened that eight years?
- [57:46]
Megyn Kelly
What did that do to me internally? My soul?
- [57:50]
Maureen Callahan
No one talks about this.
- [57:51]
Megyn Kelly
No, they don't.
- [57:52]
Michelle Obama
We made it through.
- [57:53]
Megyn Kelly
We got out alive.
- [57:55]
Michelle Obama
I hope we made the country proud.
- [57:58]
Megyn Kelly
My girls are whole.
- [58:00]
Michelle Obama
But what happened to me?
- [58:01]
Megyn Kelly
What happened to me?
- [58:04]
Maureen Callahan
This is so brave.
- [58:06]
Megyn Kelly
She'll share many cherished memories from eight years as first Lady. Many people don't understand. Not much is covered in the White House.
- [58:14]
Michelle Obama
It's expensive to live in The White House.
- [58:16]
Megyn Kelly
I had to buy the groceries. I had to pay for everything. I mean, my house was paid for, and my 19 acres were paid for, and my staff was paid for. My husband had a plane and I had a plane, but we had to pay for my daughter's plane tickets.
- [58:34]
Christiane Amanpour
Yeah.
- [58:34]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, my God.
- [58:36]
Megyn Kelly
We had to buy our food. Stop. Who else has to buy their own food?
- [58:42]
Michelle Obama
How would we manage this?
- [58:44]
Megyn Kelly
Tune in every week for Megano's insightful relationship advice. Picking your mate is like picking a basketball team. You can't just have somebody who's a shooter or plays defense. He's got to do it all.
- [58:56]
Michelle Obama
You don't want to marry a man who's like, I don't cook.
- [58:59]
Megyn Kelly
You know, you got to make sure that he can cook, he can do the laundry. He can be your emotional support partner. He could be president. And he better do at least 50% of all household chores, or you've married a sexist.
- [59:15]
Maureen Callahan
I know you don't cook.
- [59:16]
Megyn Kelly
I do not.
- [59:17]
Michelle Obama
And now?
- [59:17]
Megyn Kelly
Are you cooking now?
- [59:18]
Michelle Obama
No. No. It's not on my agenda here.
- [59:23]
Megyn Kelly
Megan. O share the many joys of parenthood. I don't understand these women who have these kids. Oh, I'm gonna have these kids. They're gonna be so great. Do you know what having children does to your life? It ruins it.
- [59:37]
Michelle Obama
They mess you up.
- [59:39]
Megyn Kelly
Your life is ruined. Say goodbye to your happiness. Whatever may have existed.
- [59:43]
Michelle Obama
They're a hassle. They're exhausting, and they're demanding.
- [59:48]
Megyn Kelly
Finally, they're launched. So now mine are somebody else's problem. But, my God, the sacrifice. I. I could have been happy. She'll offer uplifting advice to help anyone facing obstacles or adversity. If I've learned nothing else, I have learned it's not my fault. And I have learned that this is a racist, disgusting country. Those two things. I know people ask me all the time. They want my advice, and so they ask me, what is marriage? What does it mean? And I tell them it's about misery.
- [60:23]
Michelle Obama
I tell people, and folks think that this is harsh. It's like, you're gonna have a bad decade.
- [60:28]
Megyn Kelly
And when you have a bad decade or two, what you need to remember is it's not you. It's your husband or your children. That's who's to blame.
- [60:42]
Michelle Obama
If you choose to have a traditional marriage and you have kids, let me tell you, the years of 1 to 13 will be bad.
- [60:52]
Megyn Kelly
And don't be surprised. People say, oh, it's a bad week. It's a bad day. No, no, we're talking decades now of bad marriage that you definitely need to blame on someone else. I. Megan O. People need to hear from me.
- [61:07]
Michelle Obama
I'm Michelle Obama, People.
- [61:10]
Maureen Callahan
That's right.
- [61:11]
Michelle Obama
People line up for my advice.
- [61:14]
Megyn Kelly
We don't articulate our pain. Yes. We keep it all bottled up inside, and then nobody ever asks us about ourselves.
- [61:23]
Maureen Callahan
We all want to know, what can we do?
- [61:26]
Megyn Kelly
How can we help you all do something? Why do I always have to be the one to explain how angry I am? Figure it out.
- [61:34]
Michelle Obama
Don't make us feel like we're crazy.
- [61:40]
Megyn Kelly
That's it. I think we nailed it.
- [61:42]
Maureen Callahan
Inspirational yet again. Megan. Oh, my God. This one, this one was. They, they kind of get easier and easier, you know, Like, I. First of all, again, neither one of us, to my knowledge, I'm open about having no formal acting training. No training, you know, and these gifts just keep landing on the proverbial doorstep, you know, I mean, the dialogue. If, if we had credits rolling after that spoof, the script would have been written by one Michelle Obama.
- [62:16]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, that's exactly right. No, we have Jake Whitman, who produced it for us. Again, he, he came and it was just the three of us, and he gave us, like, a couple of lines. In particular, he was giving me things that Michelle Obama has actually said because I think he had the vision of slicing her in. And you almost couldn't believe them. It was like, could you. I think you might need to go back and check that. There's no way that must have come from some other parody. But no, time and time again, it was her, her exact words, that's, she's even more miserable than we portrayed her.
- [62:47]
Maureen Callahan
Even more. And since then, for I, I, I can't wait to see how this is received, because I think it's another banger. But she, she did that podcast recently where she said, I think you talked about it on your show. We definitely did. On the Nerve. Like, oh, she's so glad she and Barack never had a son.
- [63:06]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [63:06]
Maureen Callahan
Because God forbid, Barack had a Barack Jr. And she would have felt so bad for this child, this boy who probably would have inherited Barack Obama's looks, talents, charm, charisma, and like, oh, God, no. The earth was spared another version of Barack 2.0.
- [63:29]
Megyn Kelly
It's unbelievable. Like, even if you're going to spin that as charitably as possible, like, oh, he would have had to live up to Barack Obama. She didn't say that. She didn't. Then clarify the point to make sure that that's what she meant. And so I genuinely Think she meant what she said. Oh, God, I'd have another Barack Obama on my hands. And who the hell wants that? I mean, we kind of can relate, but whatever, it's fine. It's different. We're, we're the general public. But it was so funny. Like, I'll show the audience one other thing. Yesterday we had on Ruthless and Josh Helms was saying, you should show some outtakes because we showed a tease. I'm like, you know, we should show some outtakes. So they cut a couple of you and me when we were sitting there and just how funny it was because she's so absurd. We had no idea she was this negative a person when she was first lady and still behind the marketing PR wall that had been placed in front of her. It's been such a gift to see her out there, just genuinely her, so we can see she is truly somebody with the darkest vision of life, especially marriage and children I've ever seen in a public role. Here's a little bit of you and me trying to get through this thing without losing it. All right, let me think of her other lines. We don't articulate our pain.
- [64:49]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
- [64:50]
Megyn Kelly
Nobody ever asks us about ourselves.
- [64:53]
Michelle Obama
We have to ask ourselves, the men in our lives is why wait to be asked?
- [65:00]
Megyn Kelly
It's amazing. Why do I always have to be the one to explain how angry I am? People ask me all the time, do you miss the White House? No. Do you ever have dreams that you still live there? Oh, no. Oh, I'm sorry. Let's see, what else?
- [65:26]
Michelle Obama
What other favorites do we have in long term relationships? You're gonna, you're gonna have deep, deep dips.
- [65:32]
Megyn Kelly
We're talking decades now of bad marriage.
- [65:35]
Michelle Obama
You're gonna have a bad decade.
- [65:36]
Megyn Kelly
My life became about someone else.
- [65:39]
Michelle Obama
I mean, I've been married to my husband for 30 plus years.
- [65:43]
Megyn Kelly
What is marriage? What does it mean? It's about misery.
- [65:46]
Michelle Obama
People don't think about that as they date because they're trying to, to find the match that where all those 30 years are going to be blissful.
- [65:54]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, that's crazy.
- [65:55]
Michelle Obama
And it's like that's just not going to happen.
- [65:58]
Megyn Kelly
All you get is nothing, emptiness.
- [66:04]
Maureen Callahan
We all want to know, what can we do to help you?
- [66:08]
Dave Ehrenberg
How can we help you all do something?
- [66:16]
Megyn Kelly
This ridiculous person, Maureen. For the listening audience. Maureen is wearing a white, I mean, a pink Obama hat and a pink T shirt that reads Hope in a skit.
- [66:31]
Maureen Callahan
I think the hat read Obama 28. 2028. Like Jake was the one who sorted that stuff. The other thing that I don't think made final cut, but brother Craig getting yelled at for daring to ask how he could help. Right, because he should know already.
- [66:50]
Megyn Kelly
That's right.
- [66:50]
Maureen Callahan
So brother Craig can't win. And by the way, brother Craig does all the ad reads. It's like Meghan Markle's podcast. Meghan where like Megan, you can tell on her second now failed podcast, which allegedly has not been renewed. She says she's stepping away, but you could tell some of these ad reads were written for her. They have the pronoun I in them, and they go towards her interest. And she clearly demanded that a voice actress be hired to do those ad reads because Meghan Markle will not. She will sell jam, she will sell edible floor flower arrangements, whatever, but she will not read an ad on her own podcast, nor will Michelle Obama, because it looks like brother Craig is doing the heavy emotional lift, which I suspect has been his defensive crouch his entire life.
- [67:38]
Megyn Kelly
A lot has been a lot. She's still at it. Just this week, she's on her podcast offering. Well, here's this ditty. In SOP 14, there will be parental pain.
- [67:49]
Michelle Obama
We have to become tougher for the sake of our kids. And I just don't think that there's any way around making this easy for parents. And I think that that's what we.
- [68:00]
Dave Ehrenberg
Parenting is never easy.
- [68:02]
Michelle Obama
It's not supposed to be. And it's not fun. You know, life isn't fair. And that's another lesson for kids to learn.
- [68:08]
Megyn Kelly
You know, it's not fun. It's painful having children. It's not fun.
- [68:14]
Maureen Callahan
And she wonders why, as she told Amy Poehler, her daughters run the other way when she opens her mouth to offer what is surely unsolicited advice. And she's sitting there going, I'm Michelle Obama. People pay for my advice. I mean, you can see she's rarely photographed with those girls. Like, imagine your mother going on any podcast that will have her to say what a chore and a burden it was to bring you into the world and raise you.
- [68:49]
Megyn Kelly
Like, in all seriousness, too. Like, she actually wants us to know that she's. She's serious. They're. They're a hassle. She says the years of 1 through 13 will be bad. That that's just not true. It's so funny. Like, I look back on my own experience with my kids. Yeah, it's hard when they're very little. It's a lot more hard work than, you know, now. My kids are 15, 14, and almost 12. But it's still fun. They're so cute. I don't know a mother who would look back at years one through 13 and say it's going to be bad, bad. Those 13 years, they're bad. The kids are a hassle. And then doubles down here saying, parenting is not fun, it's painful.
- [69:31]
Maureen Callahan
You know, this is, this is amazing because I've been plotting for a long time now and I think it's going to be a recurring segment pieces on difficult mothers. And I think Michelle Obama is her own form of difficult mother. Imagine she was in the White House with her own mother there to help with raising the girls. Now when she was there, the line out of the White House was Michelle's only focus is the girls and making sure the girls get through it with a normal, as normal a childhood as possible. And you can only imagine the level of help and staff she had, not to mention the Secret Service. Like, there was no school run Michelle Obama had to do. There were no after school activities. She had to be present for, I'm sure, conversation. You know, what did this woman have to do vis a vis the actual care and feeding of her children in the White House? Nothing. She had Jenna Lyons on speed dial making bespoke J. Crew outfits for every. Like, what is she talking about?
- [70:30]
Megyn Kelly
Right? How is it so hard? She's like, honestly, it's like. Plus it's so clueless, right? It's like there are women out there right now who are working two jobs, who are single moms trying to keep their kids in school, trying to deal with the disastrous consequences of policies that her husband helped push and enact. And they don't complain, not one eighth as much as Michelle Obama with her hundreds of millions, multiple estates, beloved status, becoming status as former first lady on the COVID of Vogue three times. Like she has no idea how she sounds to regular people. Here's another one here. Poor Michelle. Her life has been all about other people, Maureen. See, she could have been the star. And because of that effort, she wasn't. Here's Sat 17.
- [71:17]
Michelle Obama
I don't know if my ambition has ever fully been able to actualize itself because of the nature of what.
- [71:33]
Maureen Callahan
Me.
- [71:34]
Michelle Obama
And my husband have done. I mean, you know, I guess you are as a team, you know, it.
- [71:40]
Megyn Kelly
Wasn'T about your individual ambition, was it? Right.
- [71:42]
Michelle Obama
It was the team ambition. And I went along arguably kicking and screaming, right? And you know, I think I'm now at a stage in my life where all my choices are mine. All my, you know, now I can say that whatever I'm doing from this point on is about my ambition.
- [72:07]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God. Tiniest violin. Maureen.
- [72:11]
Maureen Callahan
I have so many thoughts about this. First of all, I think.
- [72:13]
Megyn Kelly
Let's hear them all.
- [72:16]
Maureen Callahan
The level. You know how they say rage and depression, they're two sides of the same coin. Depression and anger. Like depression is suppressed anger, you know?
- [72:25]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [72:26]
Maureen Callahan
I think the level of rage that she has suppressed throughout that tenure in the White House and the time thereafter is like. It's a Vesuvian level of eruption. We're looking at. It's a Mount Vesuvius of rage that is coming out of Michelle Obama. She. She. She says, I was. First of all. Can I also just say, my favorite first lady, Jackie Kennedy, saw her husband's brains get blown out next to her. If anybody had had rage that was understandable to be expressed in the public square, it would have been Jackie Kennedy who went about the rest of her life minding her own business. Okay.
- [73:02]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [73:03]
Maureen Callahan
Secondly, you know, so she's. She says, I'm dragged kicking and screaming to the White House. As said, we've discussed this before. If this woman, when she met Barack Obama, didn't see. See his ambition coming at her like a freight train. He did not hide his ambition, nor did the power brokers in Chicago who quickly Velcroed themselves to him and were like, this guy's going to the White House and we're getting him there. Okay? So you can't be dumb and smart at the same time. She can't have no idea who this guy is and suddenly find herself in the White House. But she's so smart. She should go on every podcast and get book deals and Netflix deals to speak to all of us about how we should live our lives, even though she has no idea what she's doing. As she just said. And I'll just lastly close with. And I'm only mentioning this because she is forcing it. She is forcing it. I think she is clearly on Ozempic. I think the weight loss has accelerated to a degree that maybe she cannot even control, and the misery is now showing on her face. She is a manifest. She. Yes. Get a burger and a beer. Jesus, it's summer. She is manifesting complete uncontrolled loss. That's what I think is happening. Just my hot take.
- [74:10]
Megyn Kelly
Can I tell you something? I hadn't noticed that weight loss, to be honest, but I think we're all going to be on Ozempic soon in my family because two out of my three children are working at busboys at an ice cream Joint. And I'm there every night now. I'm literally there every, just to show support, you know, but I am 54 and I cannot have the ice cream every night the way the children can with impunity. So.
- [74:34]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [74:34]
Megyn Kelly
You know, don't knock it. So I have a theory about people like Michelle Obama and like the ones who are constantly talking about how hard everything is and how like, you know, remember she, she, she clapped back at Sheryl Sandberg's lean in, you know, and there was plenty to criticize with Sheriff Sandberg's lean in. But like Michelle Obama at that time was like, you know, that doesn't always work. And she wasn't talking about for working class people, she was talking about for black people. She had to play the race card when she was first lady. That, you know, you can't just get what you want if you go after it. This is just, she's always been this way. And what I have learned, and this is in part thanks to some of my own journey and I mentioned the reference to the NBC stint. People who are constantly talking about, like self help and like depression and how hard things are and how to get through them are very depressed. And they are probably not people you should be listening to as your teacher. If you are feeling depressed or sad or listless or non, directional, those actually are not your teachers. What you need is like a Judge Judy. You know, you need a Maureen Callahan or dare I say an mk. You need somebody who's living a great life, getting after it, putting points on the board and not spending too much of their time navel gazing into how I don't have a tail. It's really sad. Right? Like, that's her. She's an Eeyore. And it is, I think, her depression. And, and she is not somebody we should be seeking guidance or enlightenment from at all.
- [76:11]
Maureen Callahan
No, I mean, my personal rule, expressed often on my show is if you see someone with a Buddha in their front yard, run. It's always the people who are like.
- [76:20]
Megyn Kelly
Your stuff about Hoda is on point. I can speak to that personally.
- [76:24]
Maureen Callahan
Thank you, Hoda. Maria Shriver, Oprah, who has just become a robot, a shell of herself, Gayle King, these women, they all speak in these generalities, in these very vague platitudes about I'm at my. I am Megan. If I said to you, you know what, Megan? I am my most authentic self and I am on this journey that has led me to a place where I just live in joy. I mean, I would hope you would take me for an mri, you know, like, what does that sound like? Sounds like a fully directional person. Like an undirectional person, right? A directionless person, as you just said. Like, I don't know what. I should understand what you're talking about in five words or less, right?
- [77:10]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Yes. No, it's. It. That. And that's how they were. I mean, I've told this story before, but one day I went to NBC and we had to do a roundtable discussion on happiness. It was like, me, Hoda, Savannah, Jenna. I mean, it was like the whole brain trust. And the question was, like, on a scale of 1 to 10, what's. What's your average happiness level? Like, how happy are you generally day to day? And I was like, I like, six, six and a half. And they were like, what? All look. And they're like, I'm a 10. 10, 10, 10. I'm like, you fucking liars. This is such bullshit. Who's running around every day like, I'm a 10. I'm a. I mean, I can hit 10, but I like 10. A 10 happiness every day. I call bullshit and P. S. If that were true, then we wouldn't be Hoda seeing Hoda with her stupid Making space app, trying to work on everyone else's happiness because it's such a dark, dark world. You need Hoda to see you through.
- [78:07]
Maureen Callahan
Let alone people on morning television. Okay, so the morning television cesspool. I adore this. I. This is a frequent target. So the other day, the Today show, you know, it's like Craig Melvoin, who. Just, like, they slide him in, you know, Melvin. Excuse me. Who. It's terrible. And then he's got these two. Dylan Dreyer, who's like a very generic cookie cutter, and then a third one, I can't remember. But anyway, they were supposed to be doing a segment like, they had just come back from Alaska. They were doing a segment about what great friends they are. And they had brought Craig back, something from the airport gift shop. And Craig, they start talking about how when they travel for work as NBC colleagues for the Today show, Craig doesn't want to talk to any of them. He makes it very clear. He puts on the headphones. He puts on the. The sleep mask, and he's like, don't sit next to me. And they started talking about how none of them can actually stand each other off the air while they're smiling through it to the point where Al Roker says, you guys realize we're on the air. Correct. So I. I love it. Keep Giving me all of the advice, all of the pro tips for be living my best, most self actualized life in through morning television, where typically the pro tip is like, oh, my God, Chris McMillan. The other day, Jen Aniston's hairstylist was cutting Jenna into a bob.
- [79:25]
Megyn Kelly
I heard you talk about this.
- [79:27]
Maureen Callahan
What do you say to the average woman out there who wants to go get her hair changed up? And he goes, well, you know what you should do? You should find a picture of a celebrity and you should put it on your phone, and then you should bring it to your hairstylist.
- [79:42]
Megyn Kelly
Wait, wait, hold on. Stand by writing, writing this down. Picture, phone. Okay, got it. Thank you. This is. I'm so glad I tuned in. It's such power.
- [79:53]
Maureen Callahan
Right? Right. What would you have done otherwise? You know, these are the pro tips that they're really. Yeah.
- [79:59]
Megyn Kelly
And then you pointed out, and you're in on the nerve that there's a somebody off camera when Jenna, I guess she's getting her hair at the. At the time cut into a bob, saying like, you're so brave. You're so brave. She's. She stormed the beach at Normandy now because she had some inches taken off her. Her hair.
- [80:15]
Maureen Callahan
She's such a badass. Like, she's a regular Johnny Cash getting a bob. It was Leslie Bibb. I don't know if you guys watched season three of the White Lotus, but it's one of those.
- [80:25]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, yeah, I did watch season three. Which one of those three women who are so nasty to each other. Those three. Okay, that was another.
- [80:33]
Maureen Callahan
That was another conservative Texan.
- [80:36]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, yeah. Oh, God. Okay, yeah, you mentioned two people who are a good segue into our next topic, Oprah and Gayle. Oprah and Gayle this weekend are in Venice watching their dear, dear lifelong friends Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez get married. Because that's what you do when you are Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez, you invite only your close. I mean, you're literally one of the richest men in the world worth $250 billion. So you'd make sure that you only invite the people who love you for you. You know, the people who were there before you built Amazon, you know, you know, like Gail, like. Like Tom Brady, like all of the Kardashians who are there. Like, Orlando Bloom is super tight. Literally, two out of the six space morons have been invited. It's like Lauren Sanchez is one. But they invited Gail and they invited Katy Perry, who's not going to. This is exactly what Meghan and Harry did. The bigger your name, the more likely you were to get an invite because what matters to them is that it's a star studded event. Not that they have dear friends who love them standing up for them when they take a sacred vow.
- [81:57]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. And I think there are only 200 guests. For people this wealthy and famous and powerful, it's a, it's a small guest list. And it reminded me, it's so funny you said Harry and Megan because I've never respected Reese Witherspoon more because she was allegedly invited to the Harry and Meghan wedding and she declined the invite saying, I don't know them. And I thought that was so amazing because, like, I think there might be a part of me that would be like, I want to see the spectacle. I wonder what it would be like to like have a front row or a back row seat, whatever to it. But you know, it was Oprah at the wedding. And it's also this kind of like, just like when I saw Tom Brady, Brady disembarking and Scooter Braun and a Kardashian like all like, I think Diddy's losing his mind at mdc. Jared and Ivanka, that's like, these are his people. Oiled up Kardashians in catsuits exiting water taxis and obscene foam parties thrown on private yachts. I, to me, just my opinion. It feels very freak off adjacent. It feels very decadent. I wonder how much of this stuff is taking place on open water to get around other countries laws. You know, I just, it feels like a freak show. And it just feels very, just like it's aggressively an f you to the rest of us who are just grinding it out day to day. I mean, look around. It is like bouncing around with her pneumatic boobs and like, they're like, it's just disgusting. It's. And you know, Oprah and Gail, I think I have a theory. I just think Oprah's around too many dark people. I just think she is. And I think, I don't think, I don't. I think she's really soiling her legacy. And then how does Gayle King go back to CBS Mornings and her job and pretend that she's anything approaching a journalist running around with people like this?
- [83:55]
Megyn Kelly
No, it's ridiculous. And can I tell you something? So all I can think of, maybe it's just me because I'm, you know, really a regular person. When I watch all that foam on that yacht, I'm thinking, imagine, like I'd be worried that my fancy yacht was going to get stained by weird chemicals that came from the foam. Like, this is so excessive. You have an enormous yacht. Your yacht has a yacht to hold all of your toys. And also, I'm told Lauren Sanchez's weird girl pals who he doesn't want on the main yacht. And then on top of that, you risk spoiling your yacht with a bunch of foam that. I went to a party one time years ago where they had foam in their huge swimming pool outdoors, by the way, in Texas, and it was super fun. That didn't pose any risk. We were outdoors. It was a big, actual outdoor swimming pool. This is on a yacht. I just feel like the excessiveness of it is meant it's the same thing as, like, fanning out your money and with a middle finger in front of it. For the paparazzi. They and us is. That's who it is. Because they call the paparazzi that I am 100 convinced. I was just telling Paul, Paul Murray when I did his show on Sky News, I was just on a boat for a week in Greece. You know why I didn't get photographed on the boat in Greece? Because I didn't go call the paparazzi and say, hey, I'm on a boat in Greece. Come take my picture. There is a reason these two always happen to get shot while on their yacht. Same with JLo. Have you ever missed a JLO appearance on a yacht? Never. We just happened to see him smacking her ass. We just happened to see the phone party. So they want us to be looking at this Maureen, which is a real middle finger with the money splayed out Marie Antoinette moment.
- [85:38]
Maureen Callahan
Well, later, I want to hear all about your Greece trip via boat. But the thing that. So I also believe that this is. I columned on it for the Mail the other day, and I called it Jeff Bezos Is Big Fat Incel Wedding. Because I think so much of this has always been. Ever since he split with MacKenzie Scott and, you know, his relationship, his extramarital relationship with Lauren came to light. They've both undergone significant physical transformations. Her face has become a sea of injectables, a repository for injectables, as have, apparently, her breasts and her butt. Jeff has transformed himself into some sort of very taut, muscular, bald, glowing personage. Personage that to me resembles a walking penis. The foam party feels very frat boy to me. It's like, look at me. Like, the. The. The foam coming out is like, in a huge ejaculation of, like, look at my sexual prowess. I am A hot guy. And this one I'm marrying. I'm actually having sex with her. Can you guys believe this? Can you believe it?
- [86:47]
Megyn Kelly
It's so true. He has. He does. I'm sorry. He does look like a walking penis. We showed this. I don't know if this is the before and after, but look at this. This is the before and after. This is what Jeff Bezos actually looks like on the left. And then here he is over on the right post. Whatever he's doing, maybe it's just hitting the gym in the same way Jennifer Aniston is just drinking a lot of water. But I venture to say some other things have happened there to make him look like that. But you're right that he's, like, so bald and his head is so round. He does look a little too taut. And it does give penis vibes. I'm not going to lie. It's not a good look for him. And I don't know what she's doing because she, unlike him, she was more beautiful before. Like, she was actually very pretty when she was just normal. And now, I mean, she. She's my age. I don't know what she's done. All I can say is I think plastic surgery is addictive for some people, and they think they've got to keep one upping. They have one thing done, and they get compliments on it. And then they're like, oh, I have to have 10 other things. And then, like, when that procedure starts to wane, like, the. The filler starts to, like, dissolve or whatever it does. They're like, I need more, more, more. And if. If a little was good, more must be good. And now she's made her face look, like, deformed. It's sad.
- [88:05]
Maureen Callahan
I also wonder how much of what she looks like now is Jeff's dictates. Like, this is what you're going to look like. You know, we saw it with Diddy, you know, the testimony. And it was in Cassie's original complaint where he made her go get breast implants. And she came out of that surgery, and he was like, I don't like the way these look. And he took her back to that doctor and said, remove them and put new ones in. And there's, you know, that's a horror story. But I feel as though this. This entire thing is such a farce. Number one, not least because we just learned they got married a month ago. They've been legally married for a month. Okay, so this is just a big F. You look at how much money we have the people we can buy. We can buy the city of Venice, which the residents, the Venetians do not want them there. But I also think that Lauren Sanchez, we talk about this all the time. The more someone protests to the contrary, the more likely the opposite is to be true. Lauren Sanchez living her best life. I don't think so. I think she's paying a very, very, very high price to be the next Mrs. Jeff Bezos. And I think she has to look the way he wants. I think she has to look like a sex doll. I think it was his idea. This is just my opinion, for her to go to the Trump inauguration in a low cut, cleavage bearing tuxedo jacket to have Mark Zuckerberg, another in cell y tech guy, openly ogle her, you know, and be shot by Cat. This is humiliation.
- [89:32]
Megyn Kelly
So let me say something about this. So you're right. And she is starting to look like a blow up doll. And it's sad too because we have her before and after. She used to be very pretty. She was a news anchor and she, she's a helicopter pilot. Like she, she's not a moron. This is, I think her, I don't know if she was married to this guy, but they were together. This is before. Who is it? Steve? Tony. Oh, he's a football player. Tony Gonzalez. Okay. She's starting to transform. Then she marries the head of caa, one of the co heads of ca, or maybe it was WMG Patrick Whitesell. And that's when she reportedly had an affair with Jeff Bezos. And we all saw their steamy text messages which had been leaked. He was still married to Mackenzie. She was married to that Patrick guy. And then she's changed just dramatically since she started up with Bezos. And I can't help but wonder like the amount of pressure that she's under because it seems clear why he's into her to not put on an extra ounce, to not let what happens to a 55 year old ass happen to like go yet another size bigger on the breasts which have. She's steadily gone upward. But I can't imagine living my life like that for the pleasure of somebody. And I guess the inherent deal is but you get all the money and it's just, I mean, worth it. No.
- [90:58]
Maureen Callahan
No. And you know, just from knowing what I've known just in my research on billionaires, like I doubt she's his one and only. I doubt it. She's the, she's the woman who is his official and who will accompany him to things like Steve State dinners, what have you. But those guys, they're not really built for that kind of a life. And I think even in her choice of friends, again, like, she did have stuff going on. She was a journalist, she was a helicopter pilot. She came from nothing and made something of herself. But she's in this position now in life, and she has access to the world's finest minds, and she chooses to. To befriend the likes of Kris Jenner, the Kardashian clan, and Katy Perry.
- [91:46]
Megyn Kelly
Well, that's actually what I was trying to get to, and I forgot my point. Why does he like her to be showing her ass in public, to be dressed half naked in public, to show up at the inauguration with her tits hanging out? Why does he like that? Because I can tell you, in my marriage, which actually is loving and fun and the opposite of miserable, Michelle, my husband does not encourage me to run around showing off my vag or anything else. In fact, I did one racy photo shoot when I turned 40 for GQ. I was pregnant with Yardley at the time, and I was like, what the hell? I guess there'll be a marker in time. And Doug thought he liked the pictures. And he was like, you look great, babe. He's like, I think that that one gets it done. Like, and we made clear, like, I totally get what you were doing. No problems whatsoever. But, like, wouldn't want to make this a habit. And I agreed with him. You know, it's like, why does he want to see the love of his life showing her tits off to President Trump? I mean, it's a legit question.
- [92:46]
Maureen Callahan
No, I take it very seriously. I think there's a couple of things going on. I think, again, you know, to the sort of idea that this is his teenage incel. This is his. His teenage dream of a wedding. This is his. His rage has come to the surface at all of the rejection that he no doubt suffered from women he felt were he was punching above his weight, who he couldn't get with as a teenager in high school, as a kid, in college, he knew he was a genius. That was clear. But that wasn't enough to get the hot girl, the fun girl. So now we have to have Lauren Sanchez spreading her cheeks on his yacht and thrusting them at the nearest long lens paparazzi photographer so that he can prove his sexual virility while also humiliating her to a degree by making it clear on the world stage that she is an acquisition and she does what he says. Just my theory.
- [93:38]
Megyn Kelly
You're right. We have no Idea. We don't know them personally, we're just observing based on their patterns of behavior. But look, to me, there's no way this lasts. I do not think this is a marriage made in heaven. The phrase you lose them, how you get them generally applies and that doesn't bode well for either of them. There was a report in Daily Mail that they did get married already and that he had her sign a prenup, which I certainly hope he was smart enough to do. I'm sure she's going to get some big settlement even if they do divorce, but there's just the odds of this lasting extremely slim. I'll say one nice thing, since I've said so many non nice things about them. Well, I said some nice things about her. I don't think she's a bad person. I'd much rather spend an hour with her than with him.
- [94:20]
Maureen Callahan
Oh yeah.
- [94:22]
Megyn Kelly
But I, I respect the fact that he chose a woman who's age appropriate. I will say that he's I think 62, she's 55. Like the Leonardo DiCaprio thing with only the 25 year old women is very creepy, Maureen. It freaks me out. I don't understand men who are stuck in that mode. I, I think it's to his credit that he chose somebody who is age appropriateness, you know, came up at the same time, generally he did.
- [94:47]
Maureen Callahan
I agree with you. I also feel like we're at such a point in the culture where it's such a low bar where we have to be like, yay, he chose a woman of his own generation. Like, wow, wow. You know, listen, Megan, I, I'll be the cynic. I will be the open cynic. I'm telling you, I think there are a couple of 20 year olds stashed away somewhere.
- [95:06]
Megyn Kelly
Oh God.
- [95:07]
Maureen Callahan
Just a theory of the crime. Just a theory.
- [95:10]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I mean, who am I to disagree? I have to say Doug and I have talked about this many times. So I'm nine months older than Doug, but come August he will hit my number, as he always does. I love August and. But we laugh because it's such a pleasure being married to somebody my age. I have to say I love it. And Doug loves it too. Like I live for those sites on Instagram and even the some on Twitter that do like 70s runs and gen X stuff. I love those videos so much because it really does take you back when like the ones that show like whatever, those icicles, those sort of icicles and those plastic things that we used to squeeze up, you know, slowly out of the thing. Kool Aid in the Kool Aid pitcher that had the face on the front of it. You know, the rainbow shirt that the rainbow went from one arm to the other right across your chest. I love all these fun references and Doug gets all of those references because he was a kid then, too. I can't imagine what it would be like in one of these real May December romances where you've got like 30 years or 40 years separating you to have to explain every reference.
- [96:20]
Maureen Callahan
Well, you know, Megan, I mean, Bill Belichick and Jordan, whatever her name is here to disabuse us of that, right? I'm sure they're having sparkling conversation every minute of the day when she was born. Yeah, exactly.
- [96:35]
Megyn Kelly
These days, it feels like everyone has an agenda. The media, big tech. But let me tell you about Ground News. They do not filter the news. They show how stories are being shaped, spun, or ignored entirely so you can decide what to believe. Ground News is an independent app and website built to give users control over their newsfeed. It aggregates coverage from across the political spectrum and breaks down how each outlet is framing the story, including bias, ownership, and what key details might be missing. If you're tired of being told what matters or what doesn't, it might be time to take the power back. Ground News is offering 40% off their unlimited access Vantage plan for a limited time. This offer is available exclusively@groundnews.com Megan that's ground G R O U N D news N E W-COM Megan don't let anyone else decide what you get to see. Take back control of your newsfeed. Today.
- [97:28]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
Trump country is booming. We're building, hiring and winning in America because energy tax credits create jobs and put America first.
- [97:36]
Megyn Kelly
Jobs and factories will come roaring back into our country. More production at home will mean stronger competition and lower prices for consumers.
- [97:45]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
And America's comeback depends on American energy. President Trump Keep what works. Don't repeal energy tax credits. Learn Learn more at Built For America US Paid for by Built For America. We all know Americans are still recovering from years of surging prices. Now some of those in Congress want to make cuts to Medicaid, a program that provides critical health care to 72 million struggling Americans, including veterans, people with disabilities, kids, and your friends and neighbors. 40% of American births are covered by Medicaid. And Medicaid covers health care costs for a third of children with cancer. Working families rely on this program. It has 77% support. Nearly 9 in 10Americans oppose Medicaid cuts. Did you know that 12 million Medicaid families live in rural communities. Many of these people voted for President Trump, but they didn't vote for this. If Congress cuts Medicaid, a lot of rural hospitals could close and a lot of rural families will be hurt. No matter how you look at it, cutting Medicaid just doesn't make sense. Tell Congress not to cut Medicaid. Our health and our communities depend on it.
- [99:00]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. Maureen Callahan is back with me now, and somebody big is leaving a very big post. This may be a clue to all of you on who I'm talking about. It's sat 28.
- [99:16]
Maureen Callahan
No, I just. It's just baffling to me.
- [99:18]
Megyn Kelly
Why is it so impossible to put.
- [99:20]
Maureen Callahan
Together a decent run through? You people have had hours and hours to prepare. It's just so confusing to me.
- [99:26]
Megyn Kelly
Where are the advertisers?
- [99:29]
Maureen Callahan
We have some pieces from Banana Republic. Well, we need more, don't we? Oh, this is. What do you think of.
- [99:36]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, well, you know me.
- [99:37]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
Give me a full ballerina skirt and a hint of saloon and I'm on board.
- [99:41]
Maureen Callahan
But do you think it's too much like.
- [99:42]
Megyn Kelly
Like a Lacroix from July?
- [99:44]
Sean Combs (Diddy)
I thought that, but no, not with the right accessories.
- [99:46]
Maureen Callahan
It should work.
- [99:47]
Megyn Kelly
Where are the belts for this? Why is no one ready here? It's a tough call. They're so different. Mmm.
- [100:03]
Maureen Callahan
Something funny?
- [100:08]
Megyn Kelly
No, no, no, no.
- [100:11]
Maureen Callahan
Nothing's.
- [100:11]
Christiane Amanpour
You know, it's just both those belts.
- [100:14]
Maureen Callahan
Look exactly the same to me. You know, I'm still learning about this stuff.
- [100:19]
Megyn Kelly
And this stuff. I speak, of course, of Anna Wintour, brilliantly portrayed there by Meryl Streep in the Devil Wears Prada, which was a great movie. And. And I can love Meryl's portrayal of Anna Wintour while completely loathing the original myself. And that's pretty much where I land. She's stepping down as editor in chief of Vogue after some. I don't know. She's been doing it for, I think, 200 years and staying in control. Maureen of Conde Nast and all of its publications. I forgot that Wired was one of them. That explains how insane Wired went on the Imane Khalif coverage. It's like, why is this tech magazine going off trying to tell me that this man is a woman in the international boxing arena? And now I remember that it's because it's a Conde Nast publication and she runs it effectively. She's on the top of it among many other publications from Vanity Fair to Vogue and beyond. But stepping down as editor in chief of Vogue is big. And I for one am really hoping this is the first step out of the public eye altogether. You.
- [101:30]
Maureen Callahan
I'm shocked by this news. I did not, I thought, I literally thought not to be crass like she, they would, she would leave Vogue feet first. You know, they would, she would die at that desk. She wasn't going anywhere. It is and has been her life being at Vogue and I am sure she was pushed out. This is just my theory of the case. But she, this marks her 37th year as Editor in chief or marked, you know, it's not a nice round number. It's not 35, it's not 40, it's not Anna's going to go at 75, which she is now. She's age 75. She installed, according to Page Six, their exclusive report, unilaterally went behind the back of Conde CEO Roger lynch and installed a know nothing friend of her daughter's to run Vanity Fair after she ran it into the ground after Graydon left. You know, that was the last great gasp of a general interest magazine in America that was a once great publication. And she installed Radhika Jones, this humorless, I think not very talented editor who made it woke and boring. And you know, I just, I love this for her because if she was in fact pushed out, the level of cruelty and sadism she has dished out lo these many years now she's going to find herself pretty much alone with her thoughts and her back issues of Vogue.
- [103:00]
Megyn Kelly
Right? Rick is it's like, what do you. We're going to Continue this discussion SiriusXamers over on Pod and YouTube.com Megan Kelly because can't say goodbye to Maureen yet. There's a lot to go over still. By the way, update for you on the Diddy trial coming too, as it breaks here. But the, the person who wrote the book that led to the movie Devil Wears Prada was in fact an assistant to Anna Wintour for some time. I think she was like the second assistant. And she wrote about how as portrayed in the movie, she had her first assistant that was the only one really allowed to talk to her. And then she had a second and a third to do more menial tasks. And she would refer to the second and possibly the third by the first assistant's name. She couldn't be bothered to have more than one name for her assistants. And there were strict rules about like talking to her, strict rules about exactly what needed to be waiting for her when she got to the office. And you know, God help The young assistant who didn't live up to these rules. And I do wonder, in the post MeToo era, which captured not only sex predators but bullies, she was left standing. So, yes, two or three assistants calling the assistants the wrong name. The assistant said she was told never to leave her desk, even to go to the bathroom if the other assistant wasn't there. God forbid Anna come out of her office and not have somebody to abuse, that they. You know, they dropped off the book for her at her home. Just as portrayed in the movie, which is the draft markup of Vogue. It would be delivered in a monogrammed L.L. bean canvas tote with navy handles, along with her burgundy crocodile designer planner. She would come to the office and every day have a whole milk latte and a blueberry muffin from Starbucks. Zero evidence of that is shown on the woman's figure, which she. She looks like a stick figure. And then she would every day, every day have the same thing for lunch. A rare steak and mashed potatoes, of which she would take only a few bites and then say, take my plate. I'm done. So in any event, that's just her weird peccadilloes on the way she lives her life. What amazes me, though, is how she was not brought down as the bully that she clearly is. When we decided around 2018 we weren't gonna allow that. How did Ellen DeGeneres get bounced and Anna Wintour remained such a great question.
- [105:20]
Maureen Callahan
Remember her covering her ass in the wake of Black Lives Matter? You know, and people were training, including.
- [105:26]
Megyn Kelly
At this year's Rogue, at this year's Met Gala.
- [105:29]
Maureen Callahan
Met Gala. Right. The craven. Like, we're doing, like, the woman who was Naomi Campbell, the first black supermodel or model she put on the COVID under her tenure. It took forever. How many black. Black designers did this woman champion? How many black people in the fashion industry? And by the way, you going back through all that Devil Wears Prada. Amazing detail. I remember when that book came out, when they were, like, leaking the book and the details and, like, it was so fantastic. It was so unbelievable. People were like, this has to be fiction. This woman has to be embellishing. It can't. It can't be that bad. It's Vogue. It's not the United states. It's not Seal Team 6. You know that she's training over there. And it turned out to be that bad.
- [106:13]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. For someone else with your questions. I love that line from the movie. Like, give me the scarf.
- [106:21]
Maureen Callahan
Yes. And I loved. Now that we're Actresses, we can discuss this on a deeper level than maybe we would have for, but Meryl Streep's choice to be terrifying by lowering her voice to a near whisper at all times is like, the madder she was, the lower and quieter the voice got. That was like. That was brilliant.
- [106:40]
Megyn Kelly
Really, truly scary. And I love the line in that movie where Stanley Tucci is standing next to the Andy character, the young assistant, and he goes, did someone have an onion bagel? She's like, you're not even allowed to eat like that around the core. Listen, I did get to meet her and spend some time with her. Anna Wintour, back in the days when they thought I was a secret Democrat housed up in the evil Fox News, just looking to take down people like Trump. And she was an intimidating personality who really thought, you know her, you know what didn't stink? I mean, she's really, really in love with her own opinion. And look, meanwhile, she's like. She's offering me, like, these fashion tips. I'm like, what makes you think I want your fashion tips just because you're editor of Vogue? I don't give a shit what you think of. How do you. How are you supposed to dress as a litigator? Like you would know anything. Or like a journalist who needs credibility but actually needs people to stop when they're channel surfing? That's why they put the ladies of Fox News in bright neon colors. It's not because they have an obsession.
- [107:44]
Maureen Callahan
Fascinating.
- [107:45]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. It was like, you don't know shit. You may know shit about Vogue and your weird belts, but you don't actually know what works on cable news or in my old business. Like you don't know everything about everything. She just has an arrogance and a nastiness to her and that I have lived firsthand that it's a miracle to me it's taken till age 75 if she was given the boot for it to happen that way.
- [108:08]
Maureen Callahan
I also was reminded recently that when Johnny Depp was portraying Willy Wonka, half of his inspiration was Anna Wintour and her hair and the sunglasses.
- [108:19]
Megyn Kelly
What? What?
- [108:20]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, Yeah.
- [108:21]
Megyn Kelly
I didn't know that.
- [108:23]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, yeah. Tim Burton admitted it. It was half Michael Jackson and it was half Anna Wintour. And I thought, first of all, that's genius. And secondly, what a cut to Anna Wintour, who clearly thinks she is an icon for the ages. She's never going to get that ambassadorship, Meghan.
- [108:41]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. The one she wants. No, no. No matter how much ass kissing she's done of Democrat politicians, we actually pulled A couple of sound bites of her talking. Because, as you know, Melania Trump has been on the COVID of Vogue one time from, I think, 2003, when she married Donald, not as first lady. And it was like Donald Trump chooses a bride. She was only interesting to them because she had married Donald Trump. Yeah, Donald Trump's new bride. Okay. But as first lady, which she's now been for four and a half years, not once, not inside the magazine with the big spread, not on the COVID It's ridiculous. She's obviously the most beautiful first lady we've had in recent memory. And instead, three times for Jill Biden, who has zero fashion sense. Three times for Michelle Obama. Misery. Obama made it three times. Who, I'm sorry, also has no fashion sense. But Anna Wintour talked about Michelle Obama like she was Naomi Campbell. It was ridiculous. Here's just a little bit of her packing the praise on for her favorite democrat females. Sat 27, I believe Secretary Clinton, when she was first lady, was the first. First lady to be on the COVID of Vogue.
- [110:06]
Christiane Amanpour
She was. I felt that the first lady at that time had.
- [110:11]
Megyn Kelly
She's wearing her sunglasses brave way.
- [110:13]
Christiane Amanpour
We felt it was a time to support her and to stand up for women. We were also very honored, obviously. I think Mrs. Obama was on the COVID three times. I think Mrs. Obama redefined the role of the first lady. I mean, she was so open to everybody. She made the White House a place for everyone. I mean, and she was just so, I think, inspiring to so many women. First Lady Michelle Obama really was so incredible in every decision she made about fashion. She was the best ambassador that this country could possibly have.
- [110:50]
Megyn Kelly
But she's not the first lady now. Beyond that. So what about the one that you've got now?
- [110:53]
Christiane Amanpour
And to me, she is the example that I admire. If you're talking about the first lady or Senator Harris, obviously, these are women that we feel are iconic icons and inspiring to women from a global perspective.
- [111:07]
Megyn Kelly
She was talking about Jill Biden there when she was first Lady. It's stomach turning and it's not true. Michelle Obama has a terrible sense of fashion. I'm sorry, but tune into her podcast if you don't believe me.
- [111:22]
Maureen Callahan
You know, this is. I will lay the blame for Michelle Obama's forthcoming book called the look, which should be subtitled, look at how glamorous and beautiful and inspirational I Am. I will lay that delusion at the feet of one Anna Wintour, who then put the minute. Was it the minute that Joe Biden announced he was picking Kamala as his Running mate. They put. They did a hastily assembled photo shoot with Kamala on the COVID Talk about Gen X. Putting her on the COVID in a business suit with her Converse high tops on to show she was cool, low cuts or whatever. Yeah. You know, and then I was just looking very closely at the Vogue cover of Melania that you put up right there, and it looks like her head is swathed in a kind of veil. Like, could we even see her face? Like, that seems like a very Anna Wintour kind of like, I'm gonna shiv you a little bit. I had to put you on the COVID for myriad reasons, but I'm gonna shiv you a little bit. And the other thing is, I was going through clip. I was sort of fast forwarding a reviewing of the September issue, that documentary about Anna and Vogue that came out in 2009. And what really struck me, unlike the Devil Wears Prada, where her minions are, they look like models. They're well dressed. They have beautiful skin, beautiful clothes, beautiful hair, all of it. Her staff looks like they were just freed by Hamas. They have, like, skin that is breaking out and blotchy and parched and dry, and they look malnourished and underfed. And they. Their hair is, like, frizzy and unkempt, and they're always on edge because they don't know what this tyrant is going to do or say to them next. And it's like, it's fashion, right? Fashion.
- [113:14]
Megyn Kelly
Take a breath. Yeah, it's really not that important. She went on in that interview. But I just. I want to make this point actually, before I play this. Christiane Amanpour, who's a leftist hack, is sitting there for listening audience while Michelle Obama's saying sorry. While Anna Wintour is talking about Michelle Obama as like, she changed the model. She welcomed everyone into the White House. And Christiane Amanpour's got her hand on her face, like, nodding and smiling like, yes, yes, our leader, our heroine. And to me, this is quietly racist and toxic because the reason they feel the need to go so over the top on how fabulous Michelle Obama is is to prove that they're not racist. I'm telling you, that's what's happening there. They wouldn't have been that obsequious about Jill Biden. They feel the need to show like, I love Michelle Obama, so I'm not racist. See, I love Michelle Obama. No, I love her more than you do. I'm shaking my head yes. I'm saying yes. Yes. Me too. I get. I asked the question about her to begin with. Well, I put her on the COVID of Vogue three times, so I love her more. This is two privileged, white, guilt ridden women trying to telegraph that I like Michelle Obama. She's a black woman. That means I'm a good person. That's what I see when I look at those two nimrods. Have that conversation about Michelle Obama, who did not have an amazing fashion sense at all. She was wearing very plain Jane sheath dresses while she was first lady. And since she's been out on her own, it's been an utter disaster. What she wears, she rivals only Blake Lively for how bad her fashion sense is. Here she is talking about clearly why certain women get selected for Vogue and others don't. Sought 26, your magazine, the most important fashion bible in the world, does profile some very, very important women who are in politics. Tell me about that. I mean, you're overtly political in your profiles and in what you stand for.
- [115:15]
Christiane Amanpour
I think one has to be fair. One has to look at all sides. But I don't think it's a moment not to take a stand. I think you can't be everything to everybody. We profile women in the magazine that we believe in the stand that they're taking on issues we support, support them in, in the fact that we feel that they are leaders.
- [115:38]
Maureen Callahan
Okay, so I'm wondering if this interview took place before or after Anna infamously sent a journalist to interview the first lady of Syria whose husband was torturing his own citizens to tell us how stylish and groundbreaking this woman was. You know, and, and it's. The blowback seemed to catch Anna by surprise. And what I've always thought about Anna, the sunglasses, I think are a major sign of insecurity and, or eye, like not, not visual eye issues. But I think like, maybe the skin around her eyes was aging in a way that she did not like. And that was her. It's a, it's a flex, but it's also a sign of insecurity. But, you know, she always has lived in the shadow of her father, who is known as Chilly Charlie Wintour, who was an editor in chief at a. I forget the London paper, the UK paper. And then I think her siblings are like extremely accomplished in the private sector, like real, real, real intellects. And she has said I was kind of the dumb one. And I think that's what a lot of this is about.
- [116:53]
Megyn Kelly
Well, my team is telling me that that Syria remark was 2012. So this would have been. This would. And that what I just showed you for her on Amanpour was 2019, so it would have been after. So, yeah, she chooses everybody for a reason. Maureen. Look, I, I think it's amazing. I don't know why Anna Wintour stays and Ellen DeGeneres goes. It must be something about Ellen DeGeneres was a star and had a show, but she didn't control Hollywood. But Anna Wintour controls publishing. I mean, there isn't a magazine, hardly, that she doesn't touch. And I think she was just too big and was making them too much, too much money, including up to 2018, for them to mess with her. She was like. I just think she was, she was, she was too big and too, too scary in a way that Ellen wasn't. I think I was fine with what happened to Ellen. I think I've heard so many terrible stories about Ellen, even worse than the ones that have come out about her. I think she's genuinely a terrible, nasty person. But I think that's true of Anna Wintour, too. And I think her time in the power seat is, is, has been extended far too long. All right, I want to keep going because we, we still have some things to get to. Can I round back to the Diddy trial with you, please? Okay. We just found out it's 2:00 clock Eastern, just about, and the defense has not yet rested. They went to lunch. He said he has another hour. And then the prosecution gets the last word because they have the burden of proof. They said they have a 90 minute rebuttal. That's normal. Whoever has the burden of proof usually gets to speak last, first and last. And then that then they're going to charge the jury with the jury instructions, and then they believe that the deliberations will start on Monday, that the jury. Oh, now they're saying the jury will get the charge on Monday morning. So that means closings will take the rest of the day. Then they'll send the jury home, and then the jury will get charged on Monday morning and the deliberations won't start until then. So it'd be a really interesting thing to see how long they take. Maureen, you know, is it an OJ Thing where they all go in there and they're like, no, I don't think he did it. Me neither. No, no, no, no. And to this shock of everyone, they're back in the courtroom. It was like an under an hour to say not guilty. Or is it a different thing where they. Maybe they all feel the same or close to the same, but they want to at least project to the world that they're taking it seriously and they really wrestled with it. And they take a few days to argue with one another or possibly even have a hung jury, because all it takes is one. Diddy does not have to convince everybody he's not guilty. He just has to convince one of them who can hang the jury. And then the prosecution would have to decide if it wants to do it all over again. So what are you thinking? I mean, you're a New Yorker. New Yorkers, I mean, it tends to be a lefty, left leaning city. They are no nonsense. It's very hard to fool them. Although it did happen in the Trump case, in the Trump criminal case. But I think that was a political thing in my view. I don't think they'll be predisposed to hate Diddy, but I think by this point in the trial they probably do. Because if you've been paying any attention at all, you do. So what are your predictions, if any?
- [120:06]
Maureen Callahan
You know, as I, as I said before, I do think New Yorkers, we've been living with Sean Combs for a very long time, you know, and you say to me, nightclub shooting in the 90s. Like, I remember just about everything about that. You know, everybody knows this guy's bad news. He's a dangerous guy. What I wonder is, I don't know, like again, you know far more about this than I do. But like I, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm giving my 90 minute rebuttal and sending the jury off for a weekend with that, as, as July 4th approaches, I'm sure they're going to come back with a verdict before the holiday weekend. There's no question, I'm going to say Wednesday at the absolute latest. And I think they're going to find him guilty of, as you said, at least one. But probably all of these, all of these criminal acts, these depraved violence, the violence against women is just depraved. I, but I wonder, like, my thought is, like, who are they going to be talking to over the weekend? You know, how does this not come up?
- [121:06]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, they're not sequestered human beings.
- [121:09]
Maureen Callahan
That's right.
- [121:10]
Megyn Kelly
They're not sequestered. Here's they, they did of course hit the domestic violence thing. But I'm Mark Agnifolo and his closing and he, he, he handled it the way he had to. He says, let's be clear. There are things Mr. Combs has done, there are things he's not proud of. Domestic violence, we own it. That happened that's real. And if that were the charge, you wouldn't even be here. Because he would have pled guilty because he did that. But Mr. Combs has not been charged with domestic violence. He's been charged with racketeering, with sex trafficking, with being the head of some criminal empire. And he did not do all that. He's not gonna lie. He's not gonna pretend. But he's also not gonna roll over and accept something he didn't do. No. He will fight to the death for the truth. He did what he did, but not what they are accusing him of. Now. Then he says this, Maury, we're just gonna talk person to person, truth to truth. Because this case isn't about a criminal enterprise. It's about a failed relationship. It's about a love story gone source. And the government wants you to believe that Cassie Ventura was just some passive, powerless figure, that she was dragged along, voiceless, helpless. But that's not what the evidence shows. Cassie. She's not a victim in this courtroom. She's the winner. She walked away with 30 million. He's in jail. She made her choices, and she made them with agency intelligence and strength. Their sex life, it was mutual. It was consensual. She. You could even say it was in sync. Swingers, if you really want to give it a label. But no one was forcing her. No one. Cassie Ventura is a grown woman who actually enjoys sex. And I say good for her. Oh, my God, Maureen. But that's not a crime. That's not trafficking. That's not coercion. And let's not forget her relationship with Kid Cudi. You remember that when I brought it up? I said it then, and I'll say it again. Cassie. Keeping it gangster because she was allegedly having a relationship with both of them at the same time. She's not some timid, terrified victim hiding in the shadows. She's playing both sides, bold as ever, lying to both men without flinching. You think she was scared of Sean Combs? Oh, please. That's the crux of the defense. And it's. I don't. I'm sorry, but, like, if the jury buys this, I feel like it's setting women back by decades. That, like, it's. It's powerful. Like, somehow you just look at somebody who's complaining that she's been beaten, and you say, you're strong. Don't be a victim. You go, girl. You handled it. You're like, what.
- [123:55]
Maureen Callahan
I wonder. Like, it sounds like something Bill Maher would write, frankly. Was Arthur Idalla the one who delivered it. Delivered?
- [124:03]
Megyn Kelly
No, he's. He's on the Harvey case.
- [124:06]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, I thought he was also on Diddy. Why did. Oh, Mark Agnifolo.
- [124:09]
Megyn Kelly
So Mark Agniflo, he's the Keith Renieri lawyer.
- [124:12]
Maureen Callahan
Did he. Did he deliver that in court?
- [124:14]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [124:15]
Maureen Callahan
So I think that's. That's a very risky play to put that. To have a male, first of all deliver the closing and then tell. I don't know how many women constitute that jury, but tell women this is what constitutes abuse. And I am telling you that this one was in it for the money and the power. And the subtext, to me, feels like she's a scorned woman. And so this is where we're at. This is female. This is a jealous, bitter woman. Okay. You know, who would take a beating for. You know, I don't. I don't understand how this was. This even got out of their offices. This. That. This is the closing argument. I. I agree with you. If this works, it sets women. We saw the video. We saw the video. He was beating the living crap out of her, and then he dragged her by a limb or by her hair. And we're supposed to believe she's either strong enough to take it, or she was so strong she just abided it because it was the cost of doing business to be in a relationship with Sean Combs, and then she had the temerity to possibly be destroyed. Dating two men at once. I mean, do you ever hear men talked about in that manner?
- [125:30]
Megyn Kelly
This is ridiculous. He had us. He had another person on the side and multiple people. The entire relationship with Cassie, which was over a decade, not to mention Jane, that was one of her chief complaints, that she was like the one behind closed doors. And he had all these other women he would actually be seen at dinner with. But this is exactly what he tried to do in the Keith Ranieri case, Maureen. The exact same thing. I interviewed him before that case, and he told me what he was going to argue, and he did argue it, and he lost. Keith Ray's in jail for life. And he said to the. Remember, this is a case in which it was like a sex cult in Albany, New York. And he got these women to, like, follow him as their cult leader. It was my friend Catherine Oxenberg's daughter who got India Oxenberg who got swept up into this. And some of these women, including India, got branded with his initials. And we've had some of these women on the show to talk about the horrific nature of the whole thing. Anyway, Agniphilo's defense of Keith Ranieri was, this is New York. We don't do sex slave. All right? Women have agency. They're empowered. And it's like, okay, good luck with that, because New Yorkers are tough, but they can also see a manipulative bastard when they are presented with one. And they had Cassie on the stand, I think for five, six days. Gene was on the stand, I think for eight. Like, especially Cassie was sweet and soft spoken and demure and like, like a kitten. I mean, you just, you just wanted to kind of rescue her and help her. She did not project, like, oh, yeah, I'm playing two guys against the other. Like, not at all. To me, the Kid Cudi thing seemed like a possible window out of an abusive relationship with a guy who seemed kind of sweet. This guy, Kid Cudi, seemed kind of nice and not like some manipulative. She. And even her texts were like, I love it when we're both into it. You know, when we're both into it. But like, I just don't think the jury's going to look at her and say, like, yeah, she actually enjoys sex. Good for her. We saw her get beaten. And she's, the testimony was it happened over and over and over. And then Jane comes on. There was another woman who testified he beat her. Like, I just don't think this is going to fly, but I do think it's the only thing he could do. Maury.
- [127:47]
Maureen Callahan
I agree. And I also think that the argument, if I, if I'm a juror paying close attention and I'm reading things and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm dismissing his argument from the get because he says Sean did those things like the, the domestic abuse. You know, if he would have pled guilty to that. Well, no, he would not. I disagree because he denied that, that, that happened until the videotape was published by Sean cnn. And then he did that really ridiculous, very pathetic self recorded apology to everyone in which it was all about him. Right. I'm sorry, I'm trying to work on myself. Sometimes we do things that disappoint ourselves. There was nothing about the victims here. So again, as a New Yorker, a lifelong New Yorker, I remember and this is still talked about in the hip hop community. Somebody else took the fall for that nightclub shooting. Sean Combs made sure that that happened. And I, so I don't see him as a guy who like stands up and takes ownership of the things that he does wrong. So it's already, he's lost Me there?
- [128:53]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. No. As the kids say, oh, hell no. Hell no. Absolutely not. He wouldn't have. It's a joke. The only reason he, they're saying that is because he's on camera and they can't wiggle anymore. I don't know. I, if he gets acquitted, Maureen, you gotta come back on and we've gotta talk about what it means because it's just like, absolutely. I don't, I'm just like, I don't know. I think he's not gonna be acquitted, but it's not out of the realm of possibility because of just, I mean, it must be said that like the, the storm of crime that we were told was gonna come around him. Didn't you know. I realize they're saying he committed an arson on Kid Cudi's car and that he committed a kidnapping with his employee when he brought her over Capricorn Clark to Kid Cuddies. But like the, the over the top like parties or everybody was going to go down as having watched it and participated in abuse that didn't materialize. And even like, I don't know, just their evidence around him, it boils down to like these long term sexual relationships he had with a couple of women and these freak offs that he allegedly used his staff to cover up. Not cover up, but to set up for and then clean up from and yes, drugs and related sort of petty crime around it. And at the same time he was an abuser of these women. Without question, he was a physical abuser of them. I gotta say, I expected more at the beginning, like when they raided the house. And so I'm not like, I'm not guaranteeing a conviction, I rarely would. But like other than on transportation of prostitutes, you know, like that one he's getting convicted on. But on the other two they've styled an interesting case that does meet the modern day definition of sex trafficking. But it's probably not going to be something the jury is familiar with as sex trafficking for that second place claim. Nor are they going to be familiar with a crime boss that looks or acts exactly like this.
- [130:50]
Maureen Callahan
I'm going to hold out some optimism here and I have a lot of faith in New York juries and I have since Harvey, you know, since that jury that was, that was more. There was seven men, I believe, and five women who heard this very complicated testimony that his, his alleged victims who got up on that stand, continued to have sex with him, sometimes emailed him, continued to socialize with him, put in writing. I can't wait to Introduce you to my mother. And they came to understand that sexual assault survivors and rape survivors often behave in ways that do not seem logical or linear. And I think that. I also kind of think that Sean Combs overplayed his hand with his presentation in court as, like, your friendly neighborhood accountant who just sort of got so swept up into this federal prosecution who's just delivering hands, hard hands, like Taylor Swift. Hard hands in court and toting his bible everywhere. It's just like, how did this happen? Like, I just. I think it's an. I think that was an overcorrection that will not play well.
- [132:00]
Megyn Kelly
The prosecutor, anticipating that defense argument, said in her closing, domestic violence, this was force. These freak offs were forced. Control was his goal and brought up like the extortion that he basically did over them to threaten them if they. If they left him. You know, I'll stop paying your rent. I'll call your. Your baby daddy and show them the videos. I'll release the videos to the press. And you know what else the prosecutor mentioned in our closing, Maureen, was the thing we discussed when you and I last talked about this case. The $20,000 payment he demanded from Cassie's mom, who was barely making her mortgage and had to take out a home equity loan to try to pay him. Or. Or he was gonna embarrass, publicly humiliate Cassie, and she paid him, and then he wound up giving it back with $20,000. Was nothing to Diddy. He just did it to harass not just Cassie, but her family, to show everyone a lesson of what happens when you cross Diddy. You don't do what Diddy wants you to do. And so that the prosecution is doing it, what it needs to do too, which is like, zoom out. Like, the defense wants you to zoom in. Super in. Be super myopic on. That's just domestic violence. That's all that is. And the prosecution says zoom out. It was coupled with threats and demands, like we heard in that one voice memo to Jane, like, you, I'm about to disappear on you. You. You do what I want you to do. You do your job. He says, you act on your job. After she sent him that photo of her on her period of her, you know, period blood. You do your job. You get in there. And then she went in with the two escorts and came out vomiting. You get back in there. You. Let's finish this off right? Like, not. It's not a loving relationship in which sometimes the guy blows a gasket. It's. It's a controlled relationship. Where he's threatening them to get them to perform in these so called freak offs. Debauchery nights, hotel nights. And so the prosecution's whole theory is much more zoomed out than, than the defenses. We'll see whether the jury gets it. The prosecution also referencing back to the one psychological expert they had on who talked about why these women after having been raped, as one claims, by Diddy, or beaten, as both claim, they would then go back voluntarily into bed with him as a voluntary sex partner or, or just stay in his life at all. And she talked about how it's trauma bonding. Trauma bonding. That expert spoke to what that is. The expert also spoke to how these abusers love bomb you at the beginning and they overwhelm you and then they continue the promise of like being able to deliver on that love, alleged love relationship throughout the relationship. And the prosecution brought that back up too, with him, with Jane. You know, I just want a normal night. Oh, you'll get it. You'll get it. I'm coming to Florida. We're going to go out. Oh, let me speed dial the escort. After I tell her we're not doing a freak off that night, but we are. I'm going to make sure like all of it is just so manipulative and controlling. Okay, that's, that's that. I've got one more topic before I let you go. Thank you for indulging me with all this time.
- [135:01]
Maureen Callahan
Oh my God.
- [135:01]
Megyn Kelly
And that is, it's so fun. Holly Berry is back at it. You know, I have a strong theory that Holly Berry, after she was publicly accused of being bad in bed, has been on like an eight year tear to prove it's not true by publicly humiliating herself with aggressively progressive sexual behavior. That's totally inappropriate. And like no sooner had I said it, but she showed her vag at the Met gala. And that led me to tell my theory about her. My husband and I have been talking about this for a year because he was a couple years because that he, he's the one who saw the comment by. It was a woman who knew Halle Berry's ex boyfriend and said he said it to her, if memory serves, that she's bad. She's bad, but she's boring. And ever since then she's been spiraling, spiraling, spiraling. So she goes and shows her vag at the Met gala and then she does, she does like some promo for her husband's. I don't know, it's like for a lube that she's advertising and they're in bed, like, talking, and she's naked and she's like, can't wait to use the lube. Like, what? You're Holly Berry. What are you doing? You're not a Kardashian. Why are you advertising lube? And then the latest comes out today where her bikini bottoms in a little dance, her partner, husband, whatever he is, is filming, just happened to fall off. Maureen, here it is just walking around in a white bikini dancing. Weirdly, she's in shadow. Then you can see her sexual dancing white bikini. She's walking across the screen and oh, whoops, her bikini bottom falls off.
- [136:53]
Christiane Amanpour
I hate.
- [136:53]
Megyn Kelly
And they act like, right when you. My underpants are gone. What happened? Where are your pants? Wear your pants.
- [137:04]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, wear your pants. This is so, you know, the, it's amazing the midlife crises that we're seeing unfold. I thank social media, I do thank social media for this. We're seeing the facade of these celebrities who would otherwise have us believe they have it all and they have it all together. We now see through these unmediated. Like, it's almost like they're. They don't know their own ids. Like, they don't know themselves. They, they think this looks empowering. And I feel, I, I can't feel sorry for someone with this amount of money and, you know, whatever she's got. But, like, I do kind of feel sorry for her because it's clear that her self worth is bound up in one thing, and that is her body and her sex. So two things, her body and her sexuality. What's going on between her ears is of no concern to her, you know?
- [137:55]
Megyn Kelly
Right. Well, it's interesting to me because you look at, like, Melania Trump, who is this supermodel. She has lots of nude pictures which are out there from when she was much, much younger, when she was a model, you know, and she did some racy photo shoots, including on Trump's plane, ever since she became an actual adult, you know, a woman of a certain age and even before Trump became a politician, like, she's the picture of class. You never see her trying to get our attention these days with that kind of behavior. And Halle Berry's 58 years old. I guarantee you, I guarantee you Melania Trump looks as good or better than Halle Berry does in a bikini. But she doesn't feel the need to do that anymore because she's matured. She has other gifts. She's the picture of class. She knows she's in a different role in our society, and she's living up to it in spades. You got Halle Berry, who still is Hollywood royalty. Everybody knows who she is. That name. I mean, everybody knows her. Why can't she live up to it? And I really think something was done. Like, there's some people make stupid insults like that about you as a public figure all the time, but for whatever reason, this one got to her. And. And like. Like a ticking time bomb. It's like exploding her career. It's like her bullies now in her head, and she's her bully. She's bullying herself into making these terrible decisions where she's debasing herself in front of all of us. I really want someone to make it stop.
- [139:30]
Maureen Callahan
It reminds me of. You remember Billy Bob Thornton made a veiled comment much the same about Angelina Jolie. He said something. It was a print interview, maybe with gq. He said, you could be blanking the most beautiful woman in the world. And sometimes it's like having sex with the couch, like. And that everybody took that to be Angie. And that, you know, the wild child image was like the sort of overcompensation because, you know. But you don't see. You didn't see. Angelina Jolie went the other way. She went over to the United nations and she went over to, like, adopting children from various countries. Her overcorrection went another way. But it also. It just to me, speaks to sort of the. I don't know if it's a chicken and the egg thing, but like the corrosive nature often of Hollywood and the. The insecure people who find themselves seeking validation through that level of mega stardom where this does seem. The worst thing you could say about Halle Berry in her mind is that she's bad at sex. Like, that's the worst thing you could say.
- [140:29]
Megyn Kelly
It's so. Can you imagine? It's like, she must really think it's true. She must think it's true because otherwise she'd be able to let that roll off her back, you know, like water off the duck's back. And she's with the lover instead. She and the lover. I don't know if it's the husband. I can't. I can't remember their marriage.
- [140:47]
Maureen Callahan
He's her boyfriend, I think.
- [140:49]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. He's in the videos with her. He wants her to be showing the bottoms fall off. He's wants her to be talking about lube again. I don't get it. It's like the Bezos thing. Don't. I'm interested. I'm genuinely interested to hear from our audience, like, the men. Do you. Would you want. Does it make you feel good to see your wife like half naked and people drooling over her? Especially in the 50s and women, do you. What do you think? Would your husband want it? Would you think your husband would want this of you? Like you constantly in a sexual, outwardly facing mode as opposed to behind. Yeah, behind the closed doors? Obviously every man likes that and every woman probably likes it too, but this is the public face. You're really choosing something else when you make this what you're known for, which is what Holly Berry is doing. And that is what Lauren Sanchez is doing too. I mean, we don't know her as a helicopter pilot who was a journalist for a while. We know her for her enormous boobs and her increasingly weird plastic surgery. It's not a great call.
- [141:54]
Maureen Callahan
It's sad. It really, it really kind of depresses me a little bit, you know, that there's so many great examples of women who grow older and grow further into themselves and expand their intellect and their interests and they have a kind of freedom maybe in their 50s that they didn't have while they were raising children or you know, trying to really climb the ladder of their careers. And they really begin to accrue a kind of power that nobody could really take from you, you know, and that really comes from knowing yourself and coming to like yourself. And I see stuff like this and I think that this is just such a manifestation of rampant insecurity and self loathing that at this stage in life does not bode well as they continue because age and time come for us all. And Halle Berry, she looks amazing at 58, but she will not look this way forever.
- [142:46]
Megyn Kelly
I know it's like the men, I don't know, maybe, maybe Jeff Bezos is doing the same thing with his weird. I don't know what injectables, if any he's getting, but he looks very strange and very different from how he used to. But in general, the men don't feel the need to over sexualize themselves, like just to hang on to youth and vibrancy and like, I don't know, some projected sexual prowess. Like they, they don't seem to be. Be doing this to themselves. In Hollywood, men are still allowed to age. Tech is different. I will say Bezos is in tech and I know a lot of people in tech and I am told that there's pressure even on the men to try to stay young because it's just such a young man's game. But in the, for the most Part it's women, it's famous women and it's these women who just think they're reduced to one thing. They're vag. It's just, it is depressing. All right, I'm going to end on a positive note in particular about women. There was a video, it got taken down, probably for obvious reasons, but I did see it before it got taken down of a young female B2 fighter pilot working for the US government. And this. And I don't know if it's the B2 pilot who was involved in the Iranian strikes or not, whatever, but this woman who was young and seemed very on it, talked about how she just wanted to get into, I think it was engineering and I know some sort of like super advanced scientific field. And then she found out, oh, there are opportunities in the, in the US military, she could potentially fly jets. Something had never occurred to her before and before she knew it, she was flying the B2. She was young. She seemed, no nonsense, she seemed super smart. I think about gals like that, Maureen. I think about the gals who worked at the CIA and helped find Osama bin Laden. And I think there's hope, you know, that most young women are much closer to those young women than they are to the Kardashians or on the path of a Halle Berry or going the Lauren Sanchez route. I think most young women do have a strong head on their shoulders and understand the difference between being sexy and being pathetic slash weirdly desperate and needy. Of being a sexual person, but still of having one's dignity and understanding in what settings to deploy one's sexiness and sexuality. Like I, we, we focus on these stories in part because they are anomalies, right? Because they are the one offs in certain industries. They're more common than in others. But in America, net net, I still believe most young women have a strong head on their shoulders and know what they're doing and know the difference between right and wrong.
- [145:24]
Maureen Callahan
I agree with you, Megan. And if I may humbly submit, it's because of fighter pilots such as the one you just referenced. And also inspirations like you and I who have been to space and who came back to earth to tell the tale and to serve as further inspiration and show a younger generation the way. So, you know, I'm just saying. But no, I couldn't agree with you more. In all seriousness, I do think that those women are a minority slice of the population and that they're just. Now we live in a world where there are just far too many examples of what it is to be a really accomplished woman of substance. That. That is so much more appealing than stripping down to your vag on the Met Gala red carpet or showing up your oiled up, what looks like a surgically enhanced behind on the yacht belonging to your. What seems like a spiritually bankrupt billionaire. You know?
- [146:22]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Yes. It's so true. No, I. I like Usha Vance. I think about Usha Vance. Usha Vance goes to Yale Law School, gets a job clerking for not one, but two different justices on the U.S. supreme Court while she's pregnant, having babies with J.D. vance, who back then, we didn't know what J.D. vance was gonna wind up doing. He wasn't particularly successful. She definitely did not marry him for his money or his power at the time. And now winds up the Vice President, United States. She's the picture of class. She looked totally elegant at the inauguration and the festivities around it without being inappropriate. She's a. She's a working gal. She's a mom. She's a great wife. She's got it all. That's. That's who I want my daughter looking up to. None of the other women who we've mentioned thus far. And as you point out, astronauts who have been to space because we've been. So we can say we're inspirational.
- [147:12]
Maureen Callahan
Exactly. Exactly.
- [147:14]
Megyn Kelly
Great to see you, my friend. I'll see you on the nerves.
- [147:16]
Maureen Callahan
Likewise, M.K.
- [147:18]
Megyn Kelly
Thank you. See you Mo by. Okay, thanks to all of you for listening. We're back on Monday with Walter Kern. That'll be a great one, too. Have a great weekend. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.