← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media's Sad and Smug Celebration, Gaslighting on Immigration, and Bizarre Belichick Interview, with Emily Jashinsky and Eliana Johnson | Ep. 1059
01:41:23
Megyn Kelly is joined by Emily Jashinsky, host of "Undercurrents" on UnHerd, and Eliana Johnson, editor of the Washington Free Beacon, to discuss the absurdity at the White House Correspondents Dinner this year, one reporter getting an award for his coverage of Biden’s cognitive decline, how the entire media ignored the issue and gaslit the public for years, the absurdly smug White House correspondents celebrating themselves, the head of the WHCA's ridiculous speech, the hatred for Trump yet claims of objectivity, the bizarre and cringy Bill Belichick CBS News interview, his 24-year-old girlfriend calling the shots behind-the-scenes, the corporate media continuing to gaslight the public about Trump and illegal immigration cases, the truth about the Wisconsin judge who was arrested for concealing an illegal immigrant, how the coverage is affecting Trump's polling, why fired Pentagon staff are speaking out including in Megyn's interview with alleged "leaker" Colin Carroll, what we're...
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- [00:00]
Megyn Kelly
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- [03:21]
Eliana Johnson
I did not. Eliana, did you go?
- [03:23]
Emily Jashinsky
I have been one time and that was enough for me. I think maybe 2018 or 2019, that was good enough for me. And I cannot tell you how happy I was not to attend any cocktail parties or any events associated with this weekend of festivities in Washington.
- [03:45]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, I totally agree with you. Same answer for me. I've been. I didn't go. I had zero desire to go. I did speak with Maureen Callahan, who went which she considered to be research for her new podcast, which is called the Nerve. Everyone should go and subscribe. It's doing great. She's crushing it. But anyway, I don't want to steal her thunder, but she basically described virtually every guest who she talked to as doing the following. And it's not just Maureen. They do this to everybody. For the listening audience, I'm pretending to look over somebody's shoulder. It's so annoying. I've been there too. It's so effed up. It's like they're always looking for someone more important. You really want to be like, listen, Effer, there is no one more important. I'm standing here right in front of you. I've made the time to talk to you. I showed up at your stupid party, you know, like, you're so rude. But that's how they all are. Because it's a bunch of glommers who want to climb some corporate ladder in Washington in the press corps. What's. What is the apex of that in today's day and age? I don't really know. But this thing has been dwindled down to the smallest, most pathetic version of itself with no stars. I mean, none. We used to have like Scarlett Johansson there. I mean, I mocked George Clooney but at the height of his fame, he showed up at this thing. Now, it was like some C lister from some cop show I never heard of. I don't. It's like I didn't know who these people were. With all due respect to the actors and actresses. It's just we used to have the creme de la creme of the Hollywood crowd. Now they can't get any.
- [05:25]
Emily Jashinsky
Trump used to go.
- [05:26]
Megyn Kelly
Trump used to go, exactly right. Supreme Court justices used to be all over the place. Helen Mirren, I saw one time at this, at these things. It was like, I'm just saying, like, it used to be household names if they got Hollywood celebs. Now it's like, who. Who's that? You Google them, you kind of know the name of that show. But usually not really. And just the most insulting bit of information there. Okay, there were a couple of misfires. I'm going to start with this one. So they had Alex Thompson of Axios get up there, who received an award for. Okay, wait, I want to make sure I have the right title. Hold on. What is it? Alex Thompson. Oh, God, is it. Did I not write it down? I can't find it.
- [06:19]
Emily Jashinsky
This was, I think, the Aldo Beckman award.
- [06:21]
Megyn Kelly
Aldo Beckman award for his coverage of the COVID up of Biden's mental decline. All right. They gave him an award for this. And here is how he sounded when he took that award. President Biden's decline and its cover up by the people around him is a reminder that every White House, regardless of party, is capable of deception. But being truth tellers also means telling the truth about ourselves. We, myself included, missed a lot of.
- [06:59]
Eliana Johnson
This story, and some people trust us.
- [07:02]
Megyn Kelly
Less because of it. We bear some responsibility for faith in the media being at such lows. I say this because acknowledging errors builds trust and being defensive about them further erodes it. Now this guy is being universally praised for saying this. And I'm sorry, with all due respect, that is a joke. We missed. We, myself included, missed a lot of this story. We bear some responsibility for faith in the media being at such lows. What a lie. Emily. We missed it. That's the problem with the Biden decline story, that the press missed it. It was kept from them by this deceitful cabal around the president and they just happened to miss the biggest story of the decade. That's a lie. That is not what happened. And I'm sorry, but the mere fact that Alex Thompson's is getting an award for. For his coverage of it is a joke. I can name 10 so called right leaning conservative podcasters who were all over the Biden mental decline story for years before Alex Thompson was even touching it. Yes, he's in the mainstream. He was one who dared to touch it with a ten foot pole. But what a joke that he gets an award for it. Are you kidding me? Steven Crowder could be up there, but they would never like. We can go down the list. But I'm sorry, Alex Thompson was not the person who blew open the Biden mental decline story. And the media did not innocently miss the story. They actively worked to cover it up for years.
- [09:00]
Eliana Johnson
They actively worked to suppress people who were pushing the story via the cheap fake narrative right before the debate. And so, yeah, I mean, Alex Thompson is somebody who, within the quote, unquote mainstream, was trying to push this story forward and getting absolutely buried by the White House and by critics within the media to the point where he was sort of seen as an exception. People will be like, well, Alex Thompson's covering that so that they couldn't. Nobody else would touch it. And so he took some arrows and genuinely took some arrows for all of this. And probably that's what motivates him to feel somewhat vindicated now. But the idea that you would give an award, genuinely, that this White House Correspondents association would give someone an award for this story, I think he's right that it acknowledges it. To acknowledge that you get something wrong builds trust. But it is so cynical, so deeply cynical for this White House Correspondents association to think that they can give Alex Thompson an award. He has a book coming out with Jake Tapper, of all people, which is hilarious in and of itself about the Biden cover up. We'll see what's in that book. But to give him an award after everything that was done and act like they can go about business as usual is pathetic. I agree completely. It's just ridiculous.
- [10:23]
Megyn Kelly
These are. We're being gaslit here, Eliana. This is a massive gaslighting. They've ignored the entire right wing ecosystem that reports on President Biden, that reported on him for the four years of his presidency that were jumping up and down. This show alone did an in depth show on this back in 2021. You know, not that I need an award from the White House correspondents, but like, it's a joke to signal out this guy at Axios as like the leader. That's bullshit. And he perpetuated more bullshit by getting up there saying that we missed it. We, the White House Washington press corps missed the story. That's not the right verb.
- [11:11]
Emily Jashinsky
All right, I, I have a little bit less harsh to take on this. I would say full disclosure, Alex is a friend. I think highly, I thought highly of his White House reporting. I agree with you on two things. First, I would say let's just stipulate these are awards for the mainstream media bequeathed to mainstream media. People missed. It is not the right word. It would be we didn't want to cover it. And you could talk about the reasons why they didn't want to cover it. You know, Alex tried to cover it and the Wall Street Journal tried to cover it. Those were the two outlets that tried to cover this story.
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Megyn Kelly
And pretty late in the game, Eliana.
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Emily Jashinsky
Pretty late in the game. No, I agree with you, but that's an important point.
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Megyn Kelly
That's an important point. These Johnny come lately in the mainstream who just as we were going into the next presidential election were like, gee, he seems infirm. Fuck off. We where were they when those of us were out there doing in depth pieces on on this for years prior and being dismissed as nasty, cheap fakery, et cetera, thugs against poor President. Poor James Rosen got banned from the White House press office for 18 months because he dared ask a question, did that. Where was, I don't remember Alex Thompson or these other guys standing up for James Rosen. They missed nothing.
- [12:35]
Emily Jashinsky
So they didn't want to cover it. And the other piece of this is, not only did they not want to cover it, they then gaslit the American public about the conservatives who were pointing this out. The New York Times and other outlets wrote about the deceptively edited videos of Biden and did full pieces about how any commentary about Biden's mental capacity diminished mental capacity was misleading. So they didn't want to cover it. And then they told their readers that any coverage that was occurring of it was misleading and fake. And so I think to sort of fully address this, you would have to say we didn't want to cover it. And we gaslit people who on their own were going down this path and were curious about what was happening. And the third thing I would say is that it's somewhat less courageous to speak out about this now because after that June debate between Biden and Trump, the mainstream media was exposed as sort of the man who has no clothes. So these things are safe to say. And by the way, books about this are now marketable when they weren't before. So now this can be told, everything can be said and it is considered courageous to say this sort of thing, whereas it was really hard and dangerous for mainstreamers to say this before that. So I think that's the context around. Around all of this.
- [14:08]
Eliana Johnson
They also allowed themselves to get bullied by the Biden White House into not covering the story while claiming the mantle of, quote, democracy dies in darkness, of them being the ones who were adversarial to power. Where they saw what happened to the James Rosens, the axis was revoked. They saw Alex Thompson getting all that. Yeah. And like, literally that. That bullying was enough for them to shut up. But now they, of course, want to frame themselves as the champions of democracy in the face of the adversary. And that is ridiculous, too, because when it was hardest, they allow themselves like that was, I will give them credit, it was hard because the White House was going to take away your access and they were going to complain about you. But if everyone had done it, it would have been okay. They know damn well it would have been okay because it was a true story and the White House couldn't get away with it. And the public saw it. But they allowed themselves to be played a fool by the Biden White House and to get bullied into silence. That's when it would have mattered, that they were standing up for democracy in the darkness.
- [15:05]
Megyn Kelly
I'm just looking up the dates that the thing with Rose and I know happened in 2022. Our episode was June of 2020, number three, three, nine, if you want to go back and Look. June of 2022, long before the presidential politics had heated up. And honestly, like, it's. There was no interest in reporting on anything that would compromise President Biden. None whatsoever. That they. This is. I told you. This was taken out of the interview that I gave to the New York Times recently when we were talking about media. Where was Peter Baker on the fact that a neurologist had visited the White House 10 times in the past year? Where was. How was that missed? Why aren't they looking at the White House visitor logs the way they would during a Trump administration? He wasn't keeping them for some time. Why weren't they looking at them under President Biden, which would have shown them that he was having repeated visits from a neurologist to this moment, we don't fully know what's wrong with him or what was wrong with him while he was the sitting President of the United States? It's just so. I mean, Drew Holden online has done a great job of documenting some of this. They go through. He goes through in particular, how disgusting the Washington Post was. How they did this is closer to 2024 in the election how they did a deep dive into the videos of his obvious problems, concluding these are more Republican lies. They just prove quote, the politics of misinformation and conspiracy theories do not stop at the water's edge. How how Republicans use misleading videos to attack Biden in a 24 hour period. On and on he, he points out about how after the her report on Joe Biden, well meaning elderly man with a poor memory, they talked about how memory really works and it just changes as you age. Right. Running defense for him, the New York Times did a whole big thing talking about how his, his infirmity was somehow a style choice. We read that to our audience at the time. The New York Times also claimed concerns about his age were based on the distorted online version version of misleading videos to acknowledging later that his lapses were increasingly common after his debate meltdown. Right. All the coverage changed after his debate meltdown and they realized he was no longer going to be useful to them. And we could go on, just go to Drew Holden and follow his timeline because it's got so many examples from the Times, from the Post, from others. And Drew works for you, Eliana, so you know he's telling the truth.
- [17:34]
Emily Jashinsky
He, he used to work for us and he's now at American Compass running their magazine. And we also did a piece about our Andrew Stiles compiled 30 examples of this and has been reviewing all the new books to come out of this. But Drew is one of the best in the, in the game at keeping receipts, as we call it, of, of all of these stories that were run. But this was the arguably the biggest story in the country in 2024, Biden's decline. And you, you hinted at this, Megan, but we still don't know a lot about this. And I would say the news coverage that we got was focused on two things. One was the physical manifestations of his decline. It was he's wearing sneakers now instead of dress shoes and he's using the shorter stairs on Air Force One instead of the big stairs. Now that would happen to most anybody who gets older. And the other was focused on his loss of energy, which also is sort of a normal condition of older age. What we haven't gotten were answers to two things where people who were watching him were saying no, like this person's obviously getting older but something really, really seems wrong with him. He must have some condition. And two, who's actually running the country if Biden can only operate between 10am and 4pm which was something that Alex Thompson had reported actually who's making big decisions on those off hours and how are the people around him actually covering this up? They referred to a cover up, but the mechanics of that we're still totally in the dark about.
- [19:15]
Megyn Kelly
It's really incredible. You had a New York Times article like a month ago, Emily, on Covid. We were misled. And now the line on Biden's cognitive decline, we, we missed it. We just in good faith, notwithstanding our best efforts to snuff it out, we missed it. And then George Clooney, for that matter, you know, he's doing a press tour for his Broadway show saying, like, you know, I felt the need to speak up because people in my party weren't telling the truth. I was always raised speak truth to power. A month after he saw Biden almost fall off the stage and incomprehensible and unable to talk, he kept his mouth shut until after the presidential debate, when the Democrats could visually see their presidential hopes swirling the bowl and he was refusing to go. Only then did Clooney speak out. I'm sorry, but I am not going to let any of these people, whether it's Alex Thompson at Axios or George Clooney or the New York Times, any of them claim that this was a good faith mistake that people missed despite their best efforts. It's a lie. It was a, an intentional cover up and desire not to know.
- [20:28]
Eliana Johnson
And we kind of know that because of their own reporting. This is a subtle subplot of all of the think pieces and investigative reports that have come out since the debate, but especially since the election, which found that donors were regularly chatting about this, White House aides were regularly chatting about this. People in the upper echelons of Democratic Party circles were talking about this openly. And so that tells us that it's an open secret. That tells us that this had absolutely. Besides what people were just seeing on their screens in front of their faces or maybe at the White House. If you were a White House reporter and you were seeing Joe Biden look like he was ailing, you were hearing other people talk about it as well. They were just doing it behind closed doors, which means that it's a story, means it's a story that you should have published. And we again, we know this via their own reporting at this point, at which this has become thematic, to just know, like, okay, so everyone was talking about this. Okay, you heard it and then it just never ended up getting printed because what, you were afraid of losing access. And Megan, the other thing is this was a huge story in 2020. It was a huge story in 2024, but everyone could see this in 2020. And a lot of people were talking about it in the 2020 election. I mean, really as far back as 2019, this is something that you could kind of see plainly with your own eyes. It was why Donald Trump was having success talking about the quote, unquote, basement campaign that Biden was running. And that's when the to kind of get Joe Biden out there a little bit more. But he was saying all kinds of bizarre and concerning things before he was inaugurated president, before he was elected president. And the media was not talking about it then at all, despite the fact that a lot of people around the country were thinking it. Media was thinking it, too. We know reporters and journalists had the same thoughts. They just weren't courageous enough to probe them.
- [22:13]
Megyn Kelly
Here's James Rosen. I misspoke earlier when I said 18 months. It was eight months. He was blackballed at the White House. And this is how James put it in his own words. When I asked the POTUS president, United States on January 19, 2022 about this issue, it was considered rude. And I was blackballed in briefings for eight months. Here was that question. January 19, 2022. Like to. I'd like to raise a delicate subject, but with utmost respect for your life accomplishments and the high office you hold. A poll released this morning by Politico Morning Consult found 49% of registered voters disagreeing with the statement Joe Biden is mentally fit. Not even a majority of Democrats who responded strongly affirmed that statement. Well, let you all make the judgment whether they're correct. Well, so the question I have for you, sir, if you'd let me finish, is why do you suppose such large segments of the American electorate have come to harbor such profound concerns about your cognitive fitness?
- [23:29]
Eliana Johnson
Thank you.
- [23:30]
Megyn Kelly
I have no idea. It was asked directly, unsparingly, but politely. There was nothing rude about it. He got re. Where is James Rosen's award? Where is his recognition? I'm sorry, but this is a farce. This is a farce. And it wasn't the only farce of the evening or reason to disrespect these people and their stupid, meaningless awards. The award for excellence in presidential news coverage by a visual journalist, meaning a photogate. What was the most iconic photo of. Of the presidential contest or any presidential candidate in 2024? Do you have to think more than two seconds to know what it was?
- [24:20]
Eliana Johnson
It was Butler.
- [24:22]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, it was Butler, Pennsylvania. There were a couple of them. One from Getty, one from the New York Times. But there were the iconic photos of President Trump underneath that flag with the fist up fight that obviously Democrat or Republican, we all know it was. That picture was unlike anything we'd ever seen before. Absolutely spectacular. This is the AP photo and magnificent. I'll get the names of the photogs. Nope. It went to Doug Mills of the New York Times for his photo of Joe Biden. Stand by, we'll show it to you. So Doug Mills of the New York Times is a great photographer.
- [25:02]
Eliana Johnson
This, he took one of the Butler. He took one of the iconic Butler images. He almost got hit. Yeah.
- [25:08]
Megyn Kelly
And this is what they gave it to him for. This is Doug Mills's photo of Trump which did not win. Wasn't it nominated for a Pulitzer? Pretty sure it was nominated for. But no, but not good enough for the White House Correspondents Dinner because they, they felt the one of Joe Biden looking pensive under a shot of Abe Lincoln was the most compelling shot of the year. Emily.
- [25:28]
Eliana Johnson
I don't even know what to say. I mean, maybe their explanation is that it's a White House photo as opposed to a campaign photo. I have no idea. But those journalists were taking presidential news coverage.
- [25:39]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, Trump is both a former president and was the Republican nominee for president. It's like, and, and frankly in 2024 became president. Well, won the presidency. It's like, I don't. Is there going to be some rule, do we think in the White House Correspondents association book that it must be of the sitting president and not of a campaign trail photo? I doubt it.
- [26:02]
Eliana Johnson
They're probably queasy about that Trump photo from Butler, which was a remarkable image and remarkable that Doug Mills kept shooting while he was being shot at and all those photographers who were in the bay. But they're probably queasy about it because they know that it absolutely helped Donald Trump win reelection. Like there's no question about how that iconic image in and of itself was being shared by people who like an Elon Musk who started to openly come behind Trump after Butler happened. And if you, I went back to Butler the second time he did his rally there with Ellen, actually. And that was on lawn signs all over Butler. Pro Trump lawn signs all over Butler. I know that we're in other parts of the country as well, but I think that's probably what makes the press corps queasy about celebrating an image like that, even though it is a remarkable shot. Much more remarkable than that Biden image is because they know that it was helpful to Donald Trump do we really.
- [26:53]
Megyn Kelly
Think if Kamala Harris had been almost shot and stood up and said fight with the flag all around her, even though she was only vice president and she was the campaign, you know, for a short time, actual nominee, that they wouldn't, that wouldn't be their shot. Baloney. Go ahead, Eliana.
- [27:09]
Emily Jashinsky
I don't think we can separate these awards all out though. We gotta look at this in context. So if you zoom out, you have the president of the White House Correspondents Association, Eugene Daniels, canceling the comedian Amber Ruffin, because she said that she wanted to see Trump murdered or something insane like that, but she was too anti Trump. So there was no comedian at the dinner too anti Trump. Then we had them giving the award for best White House coverage to Alex Thompson for covering aggressive coverage of Biden's decline. So you hardly can think that the White House Correspondents association was then going to give the best image to this iconic photograph of Trump like they guided. They gotta throw the Biden people a bone somewhere in here just too much, you know, they basically canceled their own weekend. And, and the award to Alex from them was, was not nothing. You know, like they were saying we, we messed up here.
- [28:08]
Megyn Kelly
No, it was nothing. No, I totally disagree. Here's why they did it. Give out that award, Eugene. Beyonce Daniels. There's a whole other story with him. We'll get to that. But no, there he is. This is the president of the White House correspondence today. This is the guy, a guy with a question mark. This is. He's literally thinks he's Beyonce. He puts on Beyonce hair and dresses like a woman and tries to find his inner fierceness, whatever. That's the president of the White House Correspondents Association. But that's, that's a different story. The reason they did it, Eliana, trust me, is because right now with Trump in office, they need to say we fell down on the job, but we need to shore up our resolve and never miss again now that it's Trump. I would stake every dollar I have on this premise.
- [29:02]
Emily Jashinsky
I agree with all that. I totally agree with that. Yes.
- [29:08]
Megyn Kelly
So it's not a, it's not a genuine come to Jesus moment or a risk for them to do this by nominating Alex Thompson. It' all part of setting. This is the part of the drama in which we find ourselves unwitting audience members.
- [29:21]
Emily Jashinsky
I totally agree with that. And then in Eugene's speech at the beginning, got to that in which. I don't want to get ahead of you, but where he said, we the press are a Lot of things. We're fearless.
- [29:33]
Megyn Kelly
We already have. We are not here.
- [29:36]
Emily Jashinsky
We are not the opposition. It's like. Well, actually you're kind of supposed to be the opposition. Like you're, you're the pressure.
- [29:42]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, but now, but now they, now they are. Now they see themselves as that. But anyway, here's Eugene Beyonce Daniels, SOT 16. We journalists are a lot of things. We are competitive and pushy. We are impatient and sometimes we think we know everything. But we're also human. We miss our families and significant life moments in service to this job. We care deeply about accuracy and take serious the heavy responsibility of being stewards of the public's trust. What we are not is the opposition. What we are not is the enemy of the people. And what we are not is the enemy of the state. There he is. Eugene. Beyonce. Go ahead, Emily. She's listening to your laughter in that sound bite was the highlight of my morning so far.
- [30:35]
Eliana Johnson
I mean, it's a bit. When he said. The part that really got me is when he said we miss family moments in the service of this job. I was dying because it's like, what the hell are you talking about? Your White House correspondents. You are not on the front lines in the drama, boss. No, you're in MSNBC weekend show.
- [30:54]
Megyn Kelly
Don't sell him short, Emily.
- [30:56]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah, exactly right. Like you're in the air conditioned studio outside the Capitol. Congratulations, Eugene. Making $1 million a year, probably writing Playbook. They still are having like Eugene left Playbook a couple of months ago and they're still every day mourning the loss of Eugene Beyonce Daniels. And he's the perfect face of the media at this point because he sort of knows that he has to say things like, to, to get morale up, like, we are not, we are a lot of things, but we are not the enemy. But he can't even do that right, because to Eliana's point, you are literally supposed to be the enemy of power. That is the entire purpose of, of the press. And so he's, he's too incompetent to even explain correctly what the job is. It is to be the enemy of power. It is not to be so deferential that you think you like. If Eugene Daniels wanted a pat on the back, he should have kept Amber Ruffin as the comedian because we all know that they think what she's saying, which is not funny, but they all think that it's funny. So stand by it and have some actual principles and hold to these principles. I'll disagree with your principles. I think they're gross and stupid. But if you actually think that it's funny to joke about Donald Trump dying in some like weird way, then by all means, like do it. But don't bullshit us and act like you are too good for that. You are too principled for that. You hired her, so what changed? No, you just got, you just got backlash. That's what changed. You are cowards. You are not brave. You're not serving the country. It is a joke. And they want us all to now applaud them. I mean it's just, it's too much. But I'm glad at least they have lost their celebrity access because that is the one thing that made them feel really cool every single year is that they could get their picture taken with Bryan Cranston.
- [32:42]
Megyn Kelly
So, you know, the other thing about it is Eliana, you know, journalists, yeah especially the ones who cover the White House have long hours at times and they're obviously over the past 20 years have been journalists who have deployed and taken big risks and actually suffered consequences of them as a result of taking on those dangerous assignments. So I don't mean any disrespect to those, but it is a very small collection of the overall. I mean it's under 5%, 95% of journalists have a rather simple, easy job that tends to be an eight hour day in an air conditioned office where they have to pull a story off of the wire and repurpose it as copy for their own publication. There are great reporters like we see at the Free Beacon and so on. But I'm just saying like to talk about us like we're sacrificing it all like a Marine on the front lines, like sacrificing dinner with their families. I mean you know what it like on my team, if they sacrifice dinner with their families, they're probably going to get the next morning off. It's like that's the way. And I've worked at fox news for 14 years. I worked at ABC, I worked at NBC. It's really not that bad. It's truly one of the great things of being a journalist is if you lose, you know, eight days straight at the office, they tend to give you a few days off. Especially all these union shops. Like I kids understand that he's painting this like it compares. Forget to being a marine but to being like a liver surgeon. It's, it's, this is ridiculous that the self congratulatory back patting like Beyonce needs to take a seat. She this is not like her lemonade Years. This is like she's over the hill now in her messaging. I'm not picking up what she's putting down.
- [34:19]
Emily Jashinsky
It is ridiculous. We've all basically worked these jobs and above all the jobs are an enormous privilege. You get a front row bird's eye view on to the most powerful people in the world making the biggest and most consequential decisions in the world. You get to travel aboard their airplanes, see firsthand absolutely momentous events. I got to see President Trump shake hands with Kim Jong Un. And yes, you know, you wake up really early in the morning for security protocols that day. But it's an enormous privilege and it's really not, not a very big sacrifice and it's a lot of fun. You can also use builders with powerful and important people. But it's like one of the best jobs you could ever have.
- [35:09]
Megyn Kelly
And so true.
- [35:10]
Emily Jashinsky
And I feel like there you don't hear a lot of talk about that. The I, I am, I've never understood the sort of self sacrificial, self aggrandizing way these folks talk about each other. The other part of it is you then go on TV and talk about all your access and what you saw. You know, there's just not a lot of hardship in this, in this job and beyond that, a lot of people in this country are working long hours and working hard and having a lot less fun at it.
- [35:40]
Megyn Kelly
It's way longer, way four year vacation.
- [35:44]
Eliana Johnson
They just took a Biden did not work nights or weekends. Like the audacity of you Daniels at a black tie dinner, surely wearing some designer clothes to like be the spokesperson of the journalists who maybe were slugging it out at a local newspaper night and like, give me a break. Put one of them up there like they can, they can make that speech. You can't.
- [36:05]
Megyn Kelly
I would settle for somebody who's not a they them. I'm sorry, I don't want to they them at the head of the White House correspondence. It's ridiculous. He looks like a fool. Those pictures of him completely undermine any credibility that he has, as does his MSNBC contract as he lectures us about speaking truth to power. Really? Did MSNBC do that during the Biden years? Because I spent a lot of time watching Joe Scarborough, the face of the network, tell me it was the best Biden ever. The best Biden ever. And not to mention all the race hustling that's gone on on that channel for years and it's particularly in the primetime. So I'm not sure, Eugene, that I can take you at your word about speaking truth to power if you would sign up for a gig with that outlet. Don't get me started on Politico, which is also a left wing rag that exists to do nothing other than prop up Dems and strike down Republicans. Okay, so that's. That's them. While we're on the subject of infirmity, I've got to get to a story you got. You ladies never thought you'd be talking about here in the MK show. And it's not politics. It has to do with Bill Belichick. Right? Did you see this? I'm sorry, but it dovetails.
- [37:13]
Eliana Johnson
Ever. Yeah, he's never been better.
- [37:15]
Megyn Kelly
So he was the coach of the Patriots for all these, you know, Super Bowls. The audience knows. I know, I know next to nothing about sports, but I know enough to know he coached the Patriots while Tom Brady was the star and they won all those super bowl rings. And now he's taken a job coaching football at the college level in North Carolina because he was fired, I guess by Robert Kraft, which is something I didn't know. But it was said in this CBS interview of Bill Belichick that hit on Sunday morning. And the, the reporter, Tony Dokapoel specifically said to him, like, you were fired. And he said it was by mutual agreement. And he said, well, Robert Kraft is the owner. Said he fired you. And he's like, it was by mutual agreement. But this interview has, you know, I only cover sports if it's, if it migrates over into the news lane. That's how it comes to my notice. It's gotta be a very big sports story, which this one is for weird reasons. So this guy, Bill Belichick has been in the news lately because his girlfriend, I think is 50 years of 47 to 50 years difference between Belichick and his young gal pal. She's 24 and he's a hot property. Oh, my God. So she shows up at this black tie events with him wearing nothing. She's basically wearing like a bikini and he's wearing a normal man's clothing and it looks weird. Like, okay, whatever. I guess I'm not, who am I to judge? But I'm judging. I won't lie. It's weird. And I'm pretty sure she is with him because he's very famous and probably has a lot of money and gets her access to cool things. That's my guess. I'm just gonna say it. But anyway, he gives this interview and now it's starting to look much more like a Jill Biden situation. That's all I could think of you guys. Like, she's like Dr. Jill on the sidelines calling all the shots and like trying to decide what he can answer and what he can't in this interview and what we learned today. I'll show you the clip. But what we learned today was it was far worse than CBS this Morning, which is like a nice program they try to do, like nice stories would even air they own. The reason reportedly that they chose to air this one interruption of hers is because it was far worse than this. She was trying to dominate behind the scenes and they felt it was okay to include one of her interruptions just to give the audience to be transparent that they had this monster on screen left who was completely trying to control him. And it was to the point where they didn't feel like it would have journalistic integrity if they didn't show at least some of it. Watch this. The other change For Belichick is 24 year old Jordan Hudson, his creative muse. As he writes in his book, Jordan was a constant presence during our interview. You have Jordan right over there. Everybody in the world seems to be following this relationship. They've got an opinion about your private life. It's got nothing to do with them, but they're invested in it. How do you deal with that? Never been too worried about what everybody else thinks. Just try to do what I feel like is best for me and what's right. How did you guys meet?
- [40:22]
Eliana Johnson
Not talking about this?
- [40:24]
Megyn Kelly
No, no. It's a topic neither one of them is comfortable commenting on. What? And it went on like the portion I talked to you about. Like, it went on and on to where it was very cringy. You were like, oh God, she was right off screen for the listening audience. She was right off screen. Almost like a, like a music producer would be. As the band is doing a demo in a music studio where you can see the music producers just like 3ft to the left with the headphones on, like running the controls. That's where she was, which is very weird. It's weird for an interview like that. You don't if the spouse is going to be any place, they're normally like behind, out of sight from both the interviewer and the interviewee so as not to be a distraction. Not only was she in sight, but she was a constant distraction. Eliana, what, what are we to make of this?
- [41:18]
Emily Jashinsky
There were two things. I mean, one, if she thought she was making it better, this thing became the whole story of how weird this Was she presumably was trying make the thing, you know, steer him away from saying something that would have become the whole story. The other thing was you didn't play this clip, but they show. They say, oh, you're on social media now, and you're on Instagram and you've posted these couple pictures, and here's you doing a yoga pose with her.
- [41:45]
Megyn Kelly
And here we have that, too, Eliana. Okay, apologies. Let's play it. And then you. Then you take it on that. On the backside. You join instaface, as you put it. I love that there's some great pictures of you and Jordan where you're a fisherman and she's a mermaid. It's charming. It's a different side of you. What's the reaction been like. What's it been like to have these different sort of photos? There's another one where you're doing. I know you're not into meditation or yoga or Pilates. You're balancing Jordan on your feet and she's doing kind of the Titanic pose. Yeah. So I'm on some of those social media platforms, but I honestly don't follow them. Oh, my God. Go ahead, Eliana.
- [42:32]
Emily Jashinsky
So I went and looked at his Instagram account. Those are not posted there. And then I just looked closely. When you were playing it, it looks like those are posted to her account. And that does comport with what my perception of his reaction was, which was he did not seem to realize those things had been posted online, which was totally bizarre. He just seemed totally caught off guard by the question.
- [42:58]
Megyn Kelly
Like, Steve Krakow is saying in my ear that they were on his account. And then he appears to have taken them down like he at some point was a collaborator. And then they took them down, which is even worse. You never, never take it down. Just don't take it down. Unless it's like a total error that you really genuinely missed. Don't. Don't take it down. It's. It's worse. What is this? What are we seeing here?
- [43:19]
Eliana Johnson
It's her as a beautiful. That's beautiful. That's love. We're seeing love and affection, companionship.
- [43:27]
Emily Jashinsky
Well.
- [43:29]
Megyn Kelly
The reactions online are basically, blink twice if you need help. Bill Belichick. And that's how it looks. I'm concerned for him.
- [43:40]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah. Well, I mean, this is a man with a. And it's. It's kind of weird to say this about Bill Belichick because this is what Tony was getting at in that interview, which is. It's a new side of him. I mean, that's a wild Way to put it. Like, Bill Belichick is known for being gruff and like very rough around the edges and not at all like this is. You couldn't parody Bill Belichick if you tried better than this. Like you couldn't script this. It's so wild seeing him in this situation. But he's also a multi, multimillion dollar brand. I mean this is a powerful man. He's not just sort of like a washed up Patriots coach. So the guy is still like worth a lot, a lot of money. He is an important part of the history of football, an important part of the history of intellectual property with the Patriots and the National Football League. And so it appears that he has been completely outsourcing his business to a 24 year old who's like to put it crassly, sleeping with him. And so it's just like it's power. Yeah, exactly. And he looks like he is completely, completely like what? I don't even know what the right word is for it.
- [44:46]
Megyn Kelly
Well, a short, a nice short form is whipped. We'll just put it that way.
- [44:50]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah, but it's not like the consequences are not just Bill Belichick's personal life is also like, he's a business. This man is a business. He has football players, he has a team. And it is so uncomfortable to watch him allow that to be outsourced to a 24 year old who's clearly doesn't even know what she's doing. Because if she did know what she was doing, it is a horrible. If you are actually a communicator communications person for a multimillionaire, you would never do what she did in that CBS interview because you know they're going to frickin air part of it. It makes you look like an idiot.
- [45:24]
Megyn Kelly
Right. Don't tempt the bull. And when you're dealing with the news media, they're the bull. There's no point in waving the red flag. They already want to get you. Like there's no reason in making it even worse here. Is that part of that exchange to which I referred about whether he was fired? Just to show you he just seems out of it. Here's thought 24. What's going on with this sweatshirt? Well, you can see I've worn this one for a while. Do you remember how you got the cut here? No, I think it reads Navy. I have to read Robert Kraft because 24 years together, six Super Bowls. Unless I'm wrong, he's not in this book. How come he's not? Well, again, it's about my life lessons in football and it's really more about the ones that I experience directly. He's not even in the acknowledgment section. Correct. Do you feel like you were treated with dignity and respect when you were let go by Robert Kraft?
- [46:23]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah.
- [46:24]
Megyn Kelly
Well, it was a mutual decision for that would to for us the part ways he said fired.
- [46:31]
Eliana Johnson
It was a mutual decision.
- [46:34]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. So I don't know what's happening there. He, his dad went to Navy, I think maybe coached at Navy. He's coaching now at UNC which is a major program and I don't follow sports again. But my Steve is telling me that he's, he was on ESPN as recently as last year sounding like a normal person. He did play college ball because honestly I looked at him first. I'm like, is there, is this a CTE situation? I don't know what, I don't know what I'm seeing. But I know that if the situation were reversed and we had a what, 74 year old female and a 24 year old male in the background, like we're not talking about that. We'd be accusing him of elder abuse and asking whether he was guilty of coercive control and whether this woman was okay. And honestly, I've got all those same questions here. I'm not sure we're ever going to get any answers. But she's got major Dr. Jill vibes, Eliana.
- [47:30]
Emily Jashinsky
He also sort, I mean she's claimed, she seems to be managing it, but she didn't manage his appearance. He looked like he just came in from raking leaves or gardening or something. Not like he was ready for like prime time television. And then she also was wearing some navy get up and leggings and you know, casual wear. I mean the whole thing was strange and, and concerning. Not that I'm super familiar with what the normal Bill Belichick seems like, but he did not look ready for prime time.
- [48:05]
Eliana Johnson
I was gonna say he's never been very media savvy and he's sort of like people. He's sort of like this awkward. Some people will dispute this. But genius, like he's, he's a weird dude and he's really smart but he's really weird. So he's always been a little strange. But even with that like to Steve' on another level of bizarre even for Bill Belichick and that is a high bar.
- [48:29]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. The by the way, to the question of how they met, it's even stranger because she tweeted it out, she posted it on her Instagram that if you go to her Instagram, I'm sure you guys are all at on her Instagram. Daily TMZ reports they met on a flight from Boston to Florida on in 2021. And then I click the link and it takes it to her insta where she has like a book and he's inscribed it to her and it's dated 212 21. And it's like thank you for explaining whatever to me on this flight. And so they allegedly met on this flight and then he sent her this book. Now why would she not want people knowing that? Because that's there's nothing wrong with meeting on a flight. What's the story there that makes me think like how did you get on the flight? Was there a phone call through an intermediary that got you on that flight? Who was the intermediary? Was there any sort of business transaction involved? Why, like what is it that you're so self conscious about? Why can't we probe how you, how you met? Right. Like I don't know. I.
- [49:35]
Eliana Johnson
Or just they did they get wind that CBS and Tony decouple knew something and was going to ask a question that probes holes in the stories.
- [49:44]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. The defensiveness about it is what makes me want to know more. I couldn't really give two flying figs how they met until I saw she doesn't want to tell me, notwithstanding the fact that she posted it. And now actually I'm interested now. You got me now. And it's not just me. You're going to have the TMZs of the world digging like they've never dug before, which is another media unsavvy thing to do. All right. I have good news for you. The thing that I did this weekend, the thing that I want to share with you, I'm going to be able to show you when we come back from this break. Just the tease. All right, so. But the tease is so wonderful. So stand by. It's up next. And we will be back with the EJ's who we have for the whole show. Tax day may have passed, but for millions of Americans, the real trouble is just the beginning. If you miss the April 15 deadline or still owe back taxes, the IRS is ramping up enforcement and every day you wait might make things worse. With over 5,000 new tax liens filed daily and tools like property seizures, bank levies and wage garnishments, you don't want to mess around. Okay. The good news is there's still time for tax Network USA to help self employed or a business owner. Even if your books are a mess, they've got it covered. Tax Network USA specializes in cleaning up financial chaos and getting you back on track fast. Even after the deadline, it's not too late to regain control. Your consultation is completely free and acting now could stop penalties, threatening letters and surprise levies before they escalate. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan, you may have missed April 15, but you haven't run out of options. Let Tax Network USA help before the IRS makes the next move. Hi, everyone. This is former White House press secretary Sean Spicer. We all know that Americans are still recovering from the record inflation of the past four years. Now, some in Congress want to make cuts to Medicaid, a program that provides critical health care to 72 million struggling Americans, including veterans, people with disabilities, kids, and your friends and neighbors. 40% of American births are actually covered by Medicaid. And Medicaid covers health care costs for a third of children with cancer. Working families rely on this program. It has 77% support. Nearly 9 in 10Americans oppose Medicaid cut cuts. Donald Trump campaigned on a promise to protect Medicaid. As president, he's still promising to love and cherish Medicaid. Did you know that 12 million Medicaid families live in rural communities? Many of these people voted for Donald Trump and they didn't vote for this. If Congress cuts Medicaid, a lot of rural hospitals could close and a lot of rural families will be hurt. No matter how you look at it, cutting Medicaid just doesn't make sense. Stand with President Trump and tell Congress not to cut Medicaid. A very special and important announcement to bring to you now. This Friday, an epic event here on the Megyn Kelly show, the official worldwide trailer release for this special film, Blonde Origin. Here's a sneak peek in a world where anyone with big money or big breasts can reach the stars. Taking up space. Three women, one mission. They all find me. Very inspirational. Yes. Limited training. Right, left, right, left. Their dream to inspire humanity. Or at least grab a few good selfies. This Friday on the Megyn Kelly show, the launch of Blonde Origin. I don't appreciate what people call it a ride. It's not a ride, it's a mission. There's nothing frivolous about what we just did. Blonde Origin. Where weightlessness and cluelessness collide.
- [53:39]
Emily Jashinsky
I'm inspirational.
- [53:46]
Eliana Johnson
Oh, my gosh.
- [53:47]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. How far will we go to troll the absurdity that's the question, and the answer is very, very, very far. You will see for yourselves just how far on Friday in an epic segment that is going to be unlike any other. It was incredibly fun. Maureen Callahan, my friend and hairstylist Sarah Clementi and I went to the great unknown to see whether it was worth it. So we could say we've been. Oh, yeah, we've been. And according to Gayle King, you cannot criticize them unless you can answer that question. Yes, we. We have our cred and it's on. Let's just say that, okay, we show you the full thing. We intentionally did not show you the fun shots, really fun ones here, because we want you to tune in and I think everyone's really going to enjoy it. I can see you ladies are looking forward to it.
- [54:45]
Eliana Johnson
Megan, how was space? You have to tell us.
- [54:50]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, yeah, really, only a very small few of us privileged, lucky ones get to get to experience it. And I, I only really like to talk to those who have. So sorry, but you're not, you're not on the list. Sorry.
- [55:02]
Eliana Johnson
Rather talk to people enough to know about space. Did you invite her? Did you even invite Katy Perry?
- [55:09]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, she's. She's busy doing what I'm told is the worst tour anyone's. In fact, my crack team apparently saw this coming too, because here is the video of her terrible dancing that is so bad it's making national news. Watch this, okay? For the listening audience. She's like shoving her hands down and up like you would if you were like a cheerleader. Now she's doing some sort of robot thing like your, like your five year old does. Now this looks like my dancing, which is a true tragedy. Now she's shaking her bottle, which literally every everyone does and can do, and she's back to the MK dance. So she's bad. Oh, my God. And then what? She just got picked up. The way your two parents will pick you up when they're holding your hands and they're swinging you and then she ends with a crotch shot. Okay, we got, we got the picture. This is why lady, she couldn't go on. Not she did the blue origin, but she didn't do the blonde origin because she's out there. I mean, when you are looking at it thinking, I can do that, that's a bad. That's a bad thing.
- [56:20]
Emily Jashinsky
Yeah, I don't know what the baseline was because I, I don't know what the regular Katy Perry concert dance is, but I'm not, I'm not paying for that.
- [56:30]
Megyn Kelly
No, thank you.
- [56:31]
Emily Jashinsky
It.
- [56:31]
Eliana Johnson
Well, I'm glad that, Megan, you seem to be just as good as ever. So I'm glad that whatever Katy Perry caught in space is not like, this isn't an experiment. She didn't return damaged. There must be something with her.
- [56:46]
Megyn Kelly
She can't blame it on that. Trust me. That's all I'm gonna say. Just trust me. She can't blame it on being in space because a lot of people have been there. Okay. That's all I'm gonna say. Or no. Okay. Okay. Let's move back to the news. This Wisconsin judge who got arrested late last week by the FBI, completely, justifiably, because it looks like she obstructed justice when ICE showed up at her courtroom to arrest a suspected illegal immigrant, and he was in the midst of a criminal proceeding because he'd been accused of battering somebody. Two people who were there in the courtroom ready to give testimonials, and this judge, upon seeing that ICE was there with intent to deport this man who I think had already been. He already had a deportation order, shepherded him out, kicked out ice, shepherded him out a back door, the. The door used by the jury, and then into the hallway, along with his defense lawyers, and then he ran. One ICE guy was left at the front door, unbeknownst to the judge. And I guess he saw them come out the other way and went over and was like. He started chasing him a little, like, following him. And then he caught up with him, and the guy ran. He took off. So then they did catch him, and they went back and they arrested this judge for obstruction of justice. Listen to how Rachel Maddow described this issue. We've had time to settle into what it's like to have Donald Trump in a position of power. Right. So it's not like we didn't know it was going to be terrible, and it is terrible. He really did have a judge arrested today, and we will have more on that in a moment. He's not even 100 days in, and we are in desperation mode from him already. Arresting a judge today. Are you kidding me? That is a sign of weakness, not strength. It is the public that is being strong here, and he cannot handle it. If this feels like a insane and reckless escalation from the Trump administration, arresting a judge, I will tell you, you are not alone. It sure felt like that to lots of people in Wisconsin today, people who showed up outside the federal courthouse in Milwaukee after the judge was arrested. More than 100 people out there today on no notice. On a Friday in the middle of the day to emergency, spontaneously show up. Dangerous and irresponsible. Escalation. It was an escalation. She literally makes it sound like this was just over a ruling. Trump didn't like that he sent in the FBI to go arrest him. As opposed to what actually happened was she obstructed justice? Allegedly. I haven't seen any facts that would save her from that charge, not one put out by her side or anybody else. And is going to look at consequences for it the same as anyone else who obstructed justice would. Emily?
- [59:39]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah, I mean, I would actually love to get Rachel Matta, like force her to ask her answer the question of what, you know, if this is so bad from Donald Trump, does she think the judge did anything wrong?
- [59:50]
Megyn Kelly
Right.
- [59:50]
Eliana Johnson
So maybe she's just. If we hypothetically gave her the benefit of the doubt and said she's just mad that the FBI arrested a judge. Okay, so what, are you not mad about what the judge did? And I suspect Rachel Maddow would say no. And what's really interesting about that is what this judge did pushed the left's position on immigration to its logical conclusion. If you believe that deporting people is that bad, I mean, of course you don't see this. There's nothing wrong with what this judge did, which is why this judge, who is very apparently reportedly plugged into this activist network in Milwaukee, was able to get so many people to rally on her behalf in the middle of a Friday, as Rachel Maddow said. And so I think this is actually, I've been sort of frustrated even as a conservative with some of the cases that this administration has chosen to elevate as high profile examples in the double and triple down on, because I haven't thought that they've been very good examples of the policies that the administration is pursuing. You couldn't find a better example of a judge that needs to be arrested based on the facts that have emerged so far than this one. This is something that works with the public. They see someone abusing their office to protect someone who is abusing the privilege of being in the United States. I mean, this is a slam dunk for the Trump administration. And for Rachel Maddow to jump out ahead of the story, I think really says a lot about where the left is on immigration.
- [61:15]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, you might be able to find a better example that that judge down in New Mexico who's now accused of actually harboring a trend Aragua gang member. Here's Pam Bondi on Fox News talking about that on Friday. So Judge Kano, soon to be former Judge Kano, got, he got. His charges were just unsealed. He's charged with obstruction. He is charged, he admitted post Miranda, he took one of the TDA members cell phones himself, took it, beat it with a hammer, destroyed it, and then walked the pieces to a city dumpster to dispose of it to protect him. The wife also is charged with destroying evidence. Sandra. Not only that, this TDA member and he had on a necklace that said kill something about death. He had tattoos all over him. He also had on his cell phone pictures of two decapitated victims. Two victims decapitated, gruesome photos. And he was sending them out and, and whoever he was sending them to was sending back to, hey, you need to be careful. You shouldn't be sending these. You shouldn't be texting these photos out. And yet this New Mexico judge accused of harboring this guy. It's a problem. This is like, even judges can go too far, can obstruct justice, can violate the harboring laws. And what are we supposed to do, just give them a pass because somebody gave them a judicial robe? Eliana, I have to say I'm sort.
- [62:48]
Emily Jashinsky
Of befuddled by the position of the Trump critics on this one. Is it that judges can't obstruct justice or commit crimes or that if they do, they should not be arrested? I don't really understand that. But the details of the Wisconsin case are. One thing that I think has been totally overlooked is that this guy who ICE agents showed up to arrest with a warrant, they agreed to wait outside the courtroom. They presented their papers and did everything by the law, was in court for a hearing on three counts of domestic abuse for beating up a man and a woman. His victims were in the courtroom for a pretrial hearing. And what the judge did was deny them due process of law by letting this guy run out on the street through the back door. So this was a total miscarriage of justice. That left left two victim, two alleged victims that this guy had beat up and sent to the hospital, standing in the courtroom, not knowing what was happening. And the accused, you know, their accused guy, the guy accused of beating them up, running off down the street to go free, which seems.
- [64:16]
Megyn Kelly
That's exactly right.
- [64:17]
Emily Jashinsky
Pretty bad.
- [64:18]
Megyn Kelly
Seems pretty bad, yes. It says he was charged with three counts of misdemeanor battery, domestic violence and infliction of physical harm. The charges stem from a March 12 fight that occurred between Flores, Ruiz and two roommates after he was accused of playing music too loudly in the home. The complaint says he punched one roommate 30 times, then hit a woman who tried to end the fight. He pleaded not guilty to the charges, but they showed up and were sitting there and wanted to give testimony and couldn't because this judge scurried him out the back. I mean, she cut the proceedings short. That's the allegation, so that she could save him from ice. He had been previously deported. And by the way, notwithstanding that, they say he was actually going to be provided still a notice of intent and decision to reinstate the prior order of deportation. So another layer of due process on this guy. He would have had the opportunity to contest the determination by making a written or oral statement to an immigration officer. But no, none of that is acceptable. If you ask the left, here's New York Times's David Brooks on this Judge Dugan, SOT 7. Well, obviously they're trying to send a note of intimidation not only to her, but to all judges and maybe to all Americans. But I don't yet know the specific details of this case, whether she escorted the guy out the jury door or whether she's let him or it's. So that's all murky. I don't want to comment on this specific case, but especially on the issue of immigration, there are a lot of people who are appalled by what the administration is doing, and there will be times for civil disobedience. And to me, let's say she did escort this guy out the door. If federal enforcement agencies come to your courtroom and you help a guy escape, that is two things. One, it strikes me as maybe something illegal, but it also strikes me as something heroic. And in times of trouble, then people are sometimes called to do civil disobedience. And in my view, when people do civil disobedience, they have to pay the price. That's part of the heroism of it, frankly. She's a hero. She's a hero who just behaved civilly. Disobedient, Emily.
- [66:32]
Emily Jashinsky
Well, you know what? It turns out the details actually are important in this case. It turns out you might want to know before you say she's a hero.
- [66:40]
Eliana Johnson
Conservative David Brooks. Yeah, yeah, David Brooks. New York Times conservative writer David Brooks. Yeah, it's. It's just like, listen, this gets my blood boiling. It's not just even the alleged victims in this case that are being deprived of due process is American people who are potentially having to harbor someone who was charged with this, because we're potentially going to have to live shoulder to shoulder with somebody who was charged with this because some activist judge appoints herself ahead of what the FBI wants in this case. And again, by the way, I thought Rachel Maddow was a defender of the FBI's authority. It's important law enforcement authority. When the FBI was going after Donald Trump, that's where the left came down on the sacred duty of the FBI. But now the American people not only have to deal with the flood of what the New York Times estimated to be, I think, a net of 8 million people who came into the country under the Biden administration, that is the population of multiple medium sized states put together. So the American people don't even just have to deal with, they have to also deal with the left saying that even the people, even the worst of the worst people who have all of these multiple orders have had these insane allegations against them. We can't even deport those people. You just have to live with them because we should have open borders and we should allow as many people as possible to claim asylum in the United States of America. And any effort to push back on that, we will have to push back on that. And so you just have to live with, with this. I mean, it is so. It is so. I don't know if the alleged victims in this case are U.S. citizens. And like, if, if we said that they were, I mean, imagine that being you or your family. You get beat 30 times by somebody who's not supposed to be here, and then a judge just deprives you of the opportunity to have that case held out and to hold someone to justice. I mean, it's completely. What about the citizen apartment residents of that apartment building who have to put up with this guy blasting music all day, beating their neighbors, making them feel unsafe, alleged they can't even get a day in court because some dumb judge. And Rachel Maddow's upset that she gets arrested for doing something illegal.
- [68:54]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, no, they think the left is. The narrative on this is that this was intimidation. This was the Trump administration trying to intimidate all judges as if, if they, if they had wanted to do that, if that were their goal, as if they wouldn't have done something to Judge Boasberg. That's the one they can't stand. That's the one who's done, done all sorts of things to Team Trump, including finding them in criminal contempt before the U.S. supreme Court. Well, after he found them, after the U.S. supreme Court said, you didn't have jurisdiction over this case, but he proceeded anyway. If there were a judge they really wanted to Intimidate. It would have been Boasberg. They haven't. Trump has sent out mean tweets about him. Okay. Literally everybody on earth has had a mean tweet from President Trump. This is. This is a federal district court judge who has absolutely no, no business.
- [69:43]
Emily Jashinsky
Right.
- [69:43]
Megyn Kelly
She's federal district court and doing this kind of thing. Any other. She's state. She. State. Any other federal or state judge would have been arrested for doing this with a criminal defendant who was under the federal watch, who was about to be arrested by the feds. Here is the. The messaging, though. It's a montage from the Dems Sat 10. Why would you possibly do this? And the answer is, because we want to send a signal to the judiciary. In my perspective, this is about intimidation.
- [70:13]
Eliana Johnson
And intimidating any potential judges over the next several years that could stand in the way of whatever Donald Trump wants to do.
- [70:20]
Megyn Kelly
But regardless of the facts, this was put on to be a show. This is really to show intimidation of.
- [70:26]
Emily Jashinsky
Judges across the entire country because we.
- [70:29]
Megyn Kelly
Know that Republicans in Congress have not been standing up to these terrible policies. It's been our judiciary, it's been our justice system. And so now they're under attack. Yeah. So that's where they're going to go with it. And my question for you is this is what, like, I don't know, the fifth big individual case that's come up in the immigration lane. Right. Since Trump started the deportations. We had Mahmoud Khalil, the spokesperson for the Columbia bullies. Then we had Abrego Garcia. I missed one. There was another one in there. We have this judge now. Like, there's whatever. There's been a handful of, like, individual names that people are starting to know as sort of the face of the Trump immigration or deportation struggle. And is it starting to work from the left? Because we have seen polls today that are not great for Trump. Trump's pushing back on them, citing his own internal pollster, who's very good, John McLaughlin, saying that they are weighted too heavily to Democrats and independents. They don't have enough Republican or Trump voters in there. I'm not sure about that. You know, we actually looked at. We did a compare and contrast, and while there aren't that many Republicans in there, it seems to be the same amount of Republicans that most pollsters use. It's basically like 30. 30. I'll tell you exactly what they are. For example, the New York Times poll, which is terrible for Trump, has a sampling of 30 GOP Dem 28. So it's 2 percentage points more Republicans and 33% independence, which actually to me seems to be what hurt him because he's not doing well with independence. You look back at a Harvest Harris poll, Harvard Harris, which had Trump up to this month, all these other polls are finding him down. They had it GOP 35, DEM 33. So it had GOP up to same as New York Times, but they had, the overall sampling had more Republicans and Democrats than it did independents. They had 28% independents versus 33% independents in the New York Times poll, which I think wound up hurting Trump. Like independents have turned on him. That's what I think the headline of these latest polls is. They don't, they don't like all the stuff that like the Bay likes and, and, or at least finds. Fine. You know, it's like not nonplussed by the Dems who voted for Trump and the independents who voted for Trump who are more like not, not like the really right leaning ones. But the, even the left leaning Dem independents are mad. He's starting to lose support with those groups and it's in several polls. Hold on a second, let me find my numbers so like we can go through some of them. Okay, you've got Trump's Overall approval rating, NBC 45, disapprove, 55. So he's 10 points underwater. CBS 4555, same 10 points under ABC, Washington Post, which is one of the ones Trump called out, a 39% approval rating, a 55% disapproval. So that's 10 plus 6 is 16. 16 percentage points underwater. Exactly right. We got CNN, 41% approve, 59% disapprove. So that's obviously very bad. The trend line in the Real Clear Politics average of all polls, also not good. He last had a NET approval on March 12 where it was 48.3 to 48.1. And the averages are really what you should go with. And now it's down to negative 6.7 as of Sunday. When you look at the Real Clear Politics average of all polls, when you look at, you know, what's going wrong, why, why people are upset. That New York Times poll, he's starting to lose them in immigration, which has always been his strongest. But he's, he's starting to lose support there. They're very unhappy about the economy in particular and he's got really bad, bad numbers when it comes to the economy and tariffs which people are not in favor of. But the, the starting like the waning in the immigration numbers which have held solid up until arguably right now would be A cause for concern. It doesn't surprise me at all, Eliana, because all you hear about Trump on these stories is the bad facts. You don't, you really do not get fair and balanced coverage like that. Mahmoud Khalil, for one, you know, they basically made him into an American citizen, which he was not. He had no right to stay here. And he was an agitator on that college campus, acting as the spokesperson for a group that was committing criminal acts on Columbia's campus, which you didn't read about. He talked, he's peaceful. He really wanted to negotiate a peaceful settlement. And all it would have taken was a complete divestiture by Columbia of any Jewish cause in order to do it right. It's like you forget that. And then Abrego Garcia, the Maryland man. I mean, it's a hoax. That's the new hoax. It's the new find people on both sides. He's just a Maryland man who's just wearing a Chicago Buds bull's hoodie. That's it. Without putting into context, you know, that he was with two gang members. That is the colors. Those are the colors for Ms. 13. They, they all wear those hoodies as part of, like, their uniform. It's not like you wearing a Chicago Bulls hoodies, whatever. So what do you make of, of where Trump is on the media war as reflected by these polls?
- [76:04]
Emily Jashinsky
A couple of things. I think a lot of this, I mean, it basically begins and ends on the economy, and that started with Liberation Day and the fact that, look, he'd be in much better shape if he just imposed the tariffs and stuff, stuck to it. I'm not saying that's a good policy. I don't think it is. But there's just been mass confusion since Liberation Day about what the policy of this administration is going to be. And the markets have lost billions of dollars. And we said the same thing when, when Biden was in office, that if the economy didn't improve, he would suffer. And I don't think most Americans are paying very close attention to Trump's fight with the Ivy League or the cases of these specific immigrants. Most of that is background noise. But people are paying attention, particularly those those who were strong supporters of Trump. And that means older people living on fixed incomes who, who can't, who don't have the luxury of saying, oh, you know, what market lost 20% today? It'll bounce back. These are people who are drawing up, living off their 401ks or pensions. They're living off retirement funds. And it really matters for them. So I think that's hugely problematic for Trump and will continue to be on immigration, he's obviously struggling with the media narrative and we didn't even get to the problems at the Pentagon which I think have to concern people because it deals with national security. And the pictures one is getting of what's happening at the top there are not totally reassuring. But on immigration, I mean the story this weekend was the Trump administration deported a 2 year old and a 5 year old and an 11 year old or you know, whatever the ages of these kids were. But that's not going to change, change the administration. And, and by the way, on immigration, Trump actually has shut down illegal immigration at the border. I think they have a compelling store, compelling story to tell and over time I do think the public will be with him on that. I think Trump's fundamentally right on the issue. Whereas on the tariffs I'm not so sure like people can look at their accounts and their own wallets and they're going to make up their minds there. The fact facts that the. I don't understand the fights. The left is picking on the immigration issue essentially going to visit and have drinks with people who are not good people. Look, the Trump administration may not have followed the proper process, but the left is finding common cause with people who I don't think the American people would feel particularly sympathetic towards. And I think the polls will come back to Trump on that. But he needs to focus on and be worried about the economy.
- [78:43]
Megyn Kelly
I think he's also doing this Emily, like he doesn't much care about these public fights with these individuals because A, he thinks it helps him but B, he thinks it's a deterrent. Like he is very focused on making sure that southern border is secure and what better way of making sure it stays secure than scaring the living daylights out of would be traffic, you know, trafficking traffickers or border crossers that there's a new sheriff in town and you get in here illegally, even if you manage to make it past cbp, you very well may wind up in El Salvador and we won't care.
- [79:25]
Eliana Johnson
That's. And yeah, like I disagree on that policy and but if you talk to people in the administration, that is what they say and it's actually the deterrence point is a reasonable one. There have been stories in the Associated Press had a big one last week about people who have had already started their human trafficking journey by paying cartels up through Central America to come to the border who actually turned around because they didn't want to deal with this. So like, to some extent that is a successful deterrent. They want people to self deport so that they have fewer of these Abrego Garcia stories to deal with in the media. Was interesting if you look at the poll aggregation. So the 530 or the Silver Bulletin one from Nate Silver at RealCloud Politics, New York Times, what they look like is an X. And that's starting with Trump's approval high, his disapproval low. And there's, it's not unusual for there to be a honeymoon period, but sometime in early March, around March 10, March 11, those numbers converged and it goes up. They, you know, the disapproval goes up, the approval goes down. And that's before Liberation Day. Again, not unexpected, but it happens fairly early for Trump. He's less popular now than he was even in his first term according to some averages. And that's pretty early in his administration. And so I think some of this predates Liberation Day. And I actually would put the fingers more at Elon. I think Doge has disappointed people. I think it's angered people. I think just the idea of Elon Musk has pissed people off. Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez are getting like tens of thousands of people to their rallies. And that's, that's not entirely fake. Like there's some real stuff happening because the, the Dems, you know, are, the Dems are messaging things like Kilmar Abrego Garcia horribly. Like the, the trip to El Salvador that Van Hollen made was insane. The complete embrace, right? Oh my gosh, it was so like they're, they're not doing the establishment Dems are not doing themselves any favors on this. And it's genuinely going to be hard when, you know, AOC and Bernie have to focus more on immigration and can't just talk about quote, unquote oligarchy because Elon Musk is leaving. But I actually do think, I mean, people's Social Security has been affected by Doge. Like they've had to deal with some of those things. And I feel like that's a big part of the bleeding and that's why it started earlier than Liberation Day and earlier than some of these high profile cases like Kilmora Brego Garcia, which was later in March, March.
- [81:44]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I will say I did. I haven't looked totally deeply into the cross tabs on nyt, but their daily podcast today suggested Doge wasn't as big of an impact in the, the numbers when you dug deep and that they, they too thought the economy was big. But they actually saw weakness for Trump on immigration, as I did too, in their numbers. I just think it has to be temporary because the public overwhelmingly wants these people out. You know, the, the media is trying to highlight stories falsely of some sympathetic figure which, who aren't really sympathetic. And even today they're at it again. You know, you heard this, this, there's this case, he's deporting two and seven year olds now. American citizens. He's deporting them. And Marco Rubio went on the Sunday shows to put that to bed saying that's absolutely not right. Hold on, I think we have it. Do we have the Marco Rubio sat? We do. Here it is in sat 13.
- [82:34]
Emily Jashinsky
That's a misleading headline. Okay.
- [82:36]
Megyn Kelly
Three U.S. citizens ages 4, 7 and to were not deported. Their mothers who are legally in this country were deported. The children went with their mothers. Those children are US Citizens. They can come back into the United States if there's their father or someone here who wants to assume them. But it wasn't like.
- [82:51]
Emily Jashinsky
You guys make it sound like ICE.
- [82:53]
Megyn Kelly
Agents kicked down the door and grabbed a 2 year old and threw him on an airplane. That's misleading. That's just not true. Is it the US Policy to deport children, even US Citizens with their families? And I hear what you're saying without due process. Just to be very clear there. Well, no, no, no, no, no.
- [83:11]
Emily Jashinsky
Again, if someone's in this country unlawfully.
- [83:13]
Megyn Kelly
Illegally, that person gets deported. If that person is with a two.
- [83:17]
Emily Jashinsky
Year old child or has a two year old child and says I want.
- [83:19]
Megyn Kelly
To take my child with you, with me, well then what? You have two choices. You can say yes, of course, you can take your child whether they're a citizen or not, because it's your child. Or you can say yes, you can go, but you're child must stay behind. And then your headlines would read us holding hostage 2 year old, 4 year.
- [83:35]
Emily Jashinsky
Old, 7 year old while mother deported.
- [83:38]
Megyn Kelly
Very well done. I just want to add to it what Tom Homan said on it. Watch. If you choose, have US citizen child knowing you're in this country legally. You put yourself in that position, you put your family in that position.
- [83:52]
Eliana Johnson
What we did is remove children with.
- [83:54]
Megyn Kelly
Their mothers who requested the children depart with them. This was a Parental Decision Parenting 101. The mothers made that choice.
- [84:02]
Eliana Johnson
And I tell you what, if we.
- [84:03]
Megyn Kelly
Didn'T do it, the story today be Trump administration separating families again.
- [84:08]
Eliana Johnson
No, we're keeping families together.
- [84:10]
Megyn Kelly
So when a parent says I want my 2 year old baby to go with me.
- [84:14]
Eliana Johnson
We made that happen.
- [84:15]
Megyn Kelly
They weren't deported. We don't import US Citizens. The parents made that decision, not the United States government. But I don't hear any questions about Lake and Rowdy had a mother. She never, she's never going to see her child again. Rachel Morin she had five children. You know those children, never gonna see the mom again. Well done. Tom Homan at the White House. That was just this morning. They're getting better at fighting these media battles, Emily.
- [84:41]
Eliana Johnson
Well, I think they're, they're probably realizing, and again, having talked to people in the administration, I think they're probably realizing they're are more clear cut examples to focus on that are like it's not their fault. When the media like they did with Kilmora Brago Garcia, it was an Atlantic story brings up a thing. It's not like the White House wanted to focus on Kilmar Brego Garcia, but after it happened, the White House dug in and in. And there are examples. I mean, of course Democrats acted like complete fools in reaction to that story, but this one is like completely insane that they were able to put a side by side of what would have happened had they not let, let children go with their mothers. I mean this is just plainly a non story because it's just like the common sense thing when somebody comes to the United States overstays, is not supposed to be in the country anymore and has a child there. It's a non story that they're taking US Citizen children with them. The story, as Tom Holman says, would actually be keeping the children. Like it's just completely crazy. And so I think they're getting, I do think they're getting smarter. The other thing is they're getting a lot of heat for not doing mass deportations, quote, unquote, mass deportations at the volume that some of the hardcore, you know, kind of Steve Bannon types want to see them do. And so I think they're just realizing that the strategy needs to be a lot cleaner and clearer.
- [85:59]
Megyn Kelly
So that's where they're, I feel bad for them. They are doing literally everything humanly possible to deport as many people as humanly possible as quickly as they can. It's just they've had so many, it's not a kingdom. You know, they do have legal constraints and how quickly they can move. Even some of our viewers are writing in saying, you know, but Obama departed, deported 13 million people. Why don't they just do what he did? Obama deported people at the southern border. They counted those as deportations. If he did any, I don't think the number was that high. But the point was he decided at some point in his term to actually do some border enforcement and to turn the people away as they were trying to come into the country. And they counted each one of those, like the ones who were turned away as deportations. And so he ran up his deportation number. Number, you know, Trump, if you wanted to count deportations by that number, my God, Trump's definitely in the millions already. But that's he's actually trying to get people who are, who are in the United States, living in communities, trying to get jobs and so on. He wants them all out and in many cases committing crimes like but he doesn't really care. I mean, he's going to start with the worst first, but he doesn't care and make a distinction between extra criminal or just criminal. Insofar as you violated our immigration laws. He wants them all gone, as do a majority of the American people. Stand by. Quick break. More on the Backside Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American Dream starts with purpose. By honoring your career calling, you can impact your family, friends and your community. Change the world for good by putting others before yourself. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's or doctoral degree, GCU's online, on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal and professional goals. There's the NCAA tournament, which they are in again this year. With over 340 academic programs as of September of 24, GCU meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Private Christian affordable visit GCU Edu Paleo Valley makes 100% grass fed beef Sticks because healthy living should be easy and accessible for everyone. If you are constantly on the move, working, traveling, raising a family, consider checking out Paleo Valley. You get clean, high quality nutrition, not the chemical laden garbage so many brands are selling selling. And here's the truth. Most of the so called healthy beef sticks you're going to find at big box stores loaded with preservatives, not Paleo Valley. They use old world fermentation methods to keep their sticks fresh without chemicals. Paleo Valley beef sticks come in five delicious flavors. They went over huge in my house and are made from grass fed beef sourced from regenerative American farms. No msg, no gluten, no sugar, just real nutrient dense food. Over 55 million beef sticks sold and Paleo Valley stands behind every single one of them. With a 60 day money back guarantee. Right now you can get 20% off your first order. Go to paleovalley.com Megan and use the code Megan for your order. Hi everyone. This is former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer. We all know that Americans are still recovering from the record inflation of the past four years. Years. Now some in Congress want to make cuts to Medicaid, a program that provides critical health care to 72 million struggling Americans, including veterans, people with disabilities, kids and your friends and neighbors. 40% of American births are actually covered by Medicaid. And Medicaid covers health care costs for a third of children with cancer. Working families rely on this program. It has 77% support. Nearly 9 in 10Americans oppose Medicaid coverage cuts. Donald Trump campaigned on a promise to protect Medicaid. As president, he's still promising to love and cherish Medicaid. Did you know that 12 million Medicaid families live in rural communities? Many of these people voted for Donald Trump and they didn't vote for this. If Congress cuts Medicaid, a lot of rural hospitals could close and a lot of rural families will be hurt. No matter how you look at it, cutting Medicaid just doesn't make sense. Stand with President Trump and tell Congress not to cut Medicaid. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today, you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free offer details apply. People always want to say, why are you so emotional when you testify? Why are you so emotional on network? Because if they wore my shoes for 40 years, they'd understand why I'm emotional. I've talked to little girls as young as 9 years old or raped multiple times by the cartel members.
- [91:36]
Eliana Johnson
And when you get to your knees.
- [91:38]
Megyn Kelly
And you talk to that little girl and everything innocent and pure has been ripped from her, when you listen to the Lake and Riley, 17 minutes, that young lady fighting for her life, don't just think, okay, a young woman died. Think of how she died, the terror that she went through. And these children are sexually assaulted. I stood in the back of tractor trailer and 19 dead people at my feet. That baked to death. Illegal immigration is not a victim of crime. It's what every sick person we take off the streets, especially child rapists. It makes this country much safer. Every illegal alien we arrest, public safety threat, one at a time, makes this country safer. I can't get enough of Tom Homan. He should be out there every day. He should be at that White House press briefing room every day. Emily Jashinsky, Eliana Johnson back with me. That's what's real. That is what's real. Real. And those are the ones they're starting with, the child rapists, the murderers, the gang members. And we still can't get the media to give this team a fair shake. So it's not going to get any better. They're going to have to just plow through them. They can't work with them. They just have to plow right through them. Okay, I just wanted to show that. Soundbite. I want to move on because we had a big interview over the weekend. We dropped it Saturday morning with a guy named Colin Carroll and he is one of the now fired accused leakers from the Pentagon. So he worked as the chief of staff for the deputy secretary of defense, Steve Feinberg, and he was fired along with two other guys over there, one of whom Tucker had on his show and the other, Darren, hasn't yet spoken out. And any one of these three guys could be placed in handcuffs at any point these days. They all deny that they leaked anything. And this was an hour and a half chance to listen to one of the accused now fired guys, military guys, served us honorably, deployed to Afghanistan multiple times. And I want to give the audience now listening on a weekday a chance to hear a bit from Colin. Here's SAAT 31. The reason I'm here today, quite frankly, is because I feel wrongly accused.
- [93:53]
Eliana Johnson
I know for certain I did not leak anything. I know for certain I didn't do anything else that's criminal either.
- [93:58]
Megyn Kelly
And after his interview on Fox and Friends this week, I felt like one. I'm being told I can't talk about my investigation, but he is directing the investigation and on national television, basically saying, everyone, we're criminal, or maybe not, maybe we're going to be exonerated. I don't know. It was kind of a, a, a bit of a, it's hard to interpret what was going on. Yeah. I'm here because I want the American public to know the truth.
- [94:24]
Eliana Johnson
I think that your viewers, you've got.
- [94:26]
Megyn Kelly
A lot of viewers, and I think this is a good medium to do that. And I think from the truth, I will be able to show that I am innocent and hopefully be publicly exonerated, which are really what I'm looking for. So, Emily, we've had the advantage now on Monday of seeing all of our viewer mail, and it came in in droves, in droves about this interview. It's posted on our YouTube right now and on our podcast feed. And there wasn't one who had any doubts about him. And they had a myriad of reasons why they believed him fully. But there wasn't even one listener or viewer of the interview, which again is about 90 minutes long, who had even a scintilla of doubt that he was a truth teller. They could hear him do certain things that truth tellers do, like run toward the story, story run toward the event that they're being asked about, in this case, leaks, want a full exploration of it, not just faking no ums and ahs as they try to dance past it or away from it. And I totally understand what they're saying. I, I, when listening to that guy, my own personal opinion is he didn't do it. I don't, I don't know why he was fired, but he spoke of a Pentagon that is having a lot of internal fights with personnel. And these are Pete's guys. President Trump, even over the week, over the weekend, he gave an interview to the Atlantic magazine, still reiterating that he's in Pete's corner, which is good. But it does seem like there's a bit of personnel problems going on inside the Pentagon.
- [95:51]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah. So this is such an interesting story and that was a great interview. I agree completely. Have the same reaction to him as the audience did. And as you did, people can watch Dan on Tucker Show, Dan Caldwell on Tucker show as well, and will likely come away with a similar conclusion. And any, even just knowing Dan a little bit, I think that's probably exactly what happened. And there's been some fascinating reporting that basically the paranoia inside the Pentagon about leakers and about people who are trying to subvert Pete Hegseth. And the Trump administration is so strong that it's. That Pete's own inner circle is turning on itself because they're paranoid about who's leaking and who's not leaking. And so the drop site story about what happened behind the scenes here is that someone who was trying not to leak, Colin, who was trying not to leak this came out like last week, ends up being accused of leaking when trying to avoid looking like he's leaking. And it's because Casper, and probably Hegseth.
- [96:52]
Megyn Kelly
Himself, the chief of staff, repeat Joe Casper.
- [96:55]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah. And they are rightfully was right. But they are that this, they're absolutely correct to be paranoid because everybody is out to get them. So they're in this impossible situation where they're trying to implement dramatic reform of a corrupt institution and the corrupt institution is fighting back. And in that situation, it's very difficult to not end up getting defeated by the institution because it's extremely powerful. And you're this like, team that's coming in and trying to, quote, like, drain the swamp. So I feel like that's what's happening here and it is a really sad story. And I thought your interview really brought that side of it out.
- [97:33]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, thank you. I thought, I know you do that other show with Ryan Grim and he did a great job in his reporting, which advanced the story considering considerably. Eliana, what she said is exactly right. Right. It's like you've got the deep state, which is a real thing inside the Pentagon who don't like Pete. Then you've got more Neo Connie Republicans who, they're not his number one fans. You know, they're, they accept that he's.
- [97:53]
Emily Jashinsky
Running DOD And I'm a, and I'm a neocon.
- [97:56]
Eliana Johnson
Yeah, you're a neocon free beacon.
- [97:57]
Megyn Kelly
Just saying.
- [97:58]
Emily Jashinsky
Endorse Pete. I'm a fan of Pete.
- [98:01]
Megyn Kelly
But they're not, they're not. But they're not his number one fans. It's, it is fair to say his number one fan. Like the, the, the main neoconator money people wanted somebody who was a little bit more bellicose and there, Pete's an acceptable choice. There, there are more restrainers. There are more vocal restrainers, like more in the Tucker wing that they could have gone with. And so I think they accepted Pete. But in any event, my point is simply he, his main faction of support should be maga. And I don't know exactly who those guys are within the Pentagon, but I think all these forces have. Have some of the forces inside the Pentagon feeling unsteady. And he's been under constant barrage since he took the oath, since before he took the oath, all the way up to now. Go ahead.
- [98:45]
Emily Jashinsky
I. I have a totally different take on this from you guys. I. I like the secretary. I was supportive of him because he was the President's choice, and I viewed him not as part of either the Ma Maga restrainer faction or the neocon faction. I thought he had support from both sides and in that sense was a good reflection of this administration. And most importantly, he had the trust of the president. And he's a fighter in the press, which makes him a good fit for this administration. However, with all of this stuff, it was clear that Pete would be besieged by the press this entire time. You know, these guys. Colin Carroll, Darren Selick, Dan Caldwell, Joe Casper. These are four of the people. You never heard of them before because they're not important, really. People. They're. They. They served at the pleasure of the Secretary of Defense and of the President of the United States. You know what you don't do when you're fired from an administration is go run to Tucker Carlson and run to the Megyn Kelly Show. I mean, great interview, Megan. Like, they're. They're wonderful. Of. Of course the press is going to cover this. Run to Politico and run your mouth about what happened inside. It's a betrayal of the administration. It's a betrayal of the oath that they took when they went in. And if they think this is helping matters, it is not. And I'm struck by the fact that all of these guys are doing it and presumably were vetted by this administration for an administration that put so much, such a huge premium him. On vetting loyalists.
- [100:24]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, I know, but he's a. Loyalty. Is it supposed to. But. But is the loyalty supposed to stay in place even once they fired you and basically accused you publicly of being a felon? Like, the. The reason those two guys, both of whom had very nice things to say about Pete Hegseth, came forward is because they feel like their reputation is being completely destroyed. And it was. I can speak to Colin. It was very important to him to come out and say. Say, I did not do this whole thing.
- [100:51]
Emily Jashinsky
I listened to the whole thing. And I think if you go serve, you leave and you keep your mouth shut. That's my. That's my personal.
- [101:00]
Megyn Kelly
But they didn't fire him quietly. He's not supposed to defend in March.
- [101:03]
Emily Jashinsky
I, I understand that. I understand that. And That's a risk they take. And I don't think that he said, oh, I'm so. He said, I don't really know. He's not a Pete guy. Dan called, was a Pete guy. Look, I don't think Pete went and threw his own people under the bus. Like, nobody looks good in all of this. This. But to me, this reflects poorly on the administration's vetting, it reflects poorly on their personnel choices, and it reflects poorly on, you know, how they pick people they thought would be loyal to them. Like, the whole thing sticks. And by the way, I would say I have no idea what happened here. I have no read of this and no idea what the drama was on the inside, but I don't think anybody does.
- [101:40]
Megyn Kelly
I think I do. No, I disagree. I now feel like I have it figured out. But go ahead, Emily.
- [101:45]
Eliana Johnson
Well, I was just gonna say, I mean, from what we know, Colin seems to have actually been trying to be loyal. And that's what's frustrating to him and to Caldwell is that they were actually like, he got the call from Dan Lippman of Politico and tried to do the right thing and work it up the chain and still ended up getting booted and then smeared in the public. And so I guess I see what Aliana say I'm a little bit more sympathetic to them afterwards coming out and explaining what happened because they're making this case that it's important for the public know about the, the, you know, mess that's happening behind closed doors.
- [102:21]
Emily Jashinsky
It's about five people in the public that's following this story to the extent of, like the, you know, the ins and outs of even who these people are. No, nobody in America knows who these people are. They just know it's a big mess at the Pentagon.
- [102:34]
Eliana Johnson
Well, yeah, right, but they're saying that you should know why.
- [102:38]
Emily Jashinsky
Yeah, I don't think anybody's following along in the details.
- [102:41]
Megyn Kelly
I don't, I don't know. I don't know if that's true. Because, look, Pete went on Fox and Friends. He spoke to it from the Easter egg roll, which made a lot of news. Dan went on Tucker, which is a huge show. Colin came on this program, which is also very large and the numbers are huge. People are definitely tuning in. I can see them. And so there's interest in these, in these guys and in this story. Our interest is, is in getting it right. The left wing media wants you to just go walk away with chaos at the Pentagon. Pick chaos. Chaos. It's not ideal, but it's I, I, I feel like to sum it up, it's some growing pains happening over there and there are factions that are out to get you. You know, is it paranoia if they really are out to get you? I'm just not sure he found the right ones who are actually out to get him. And time will tell on that front. Okay, we'll talk more about it tomorrow when Tucker's here. So he and I will get into this whole thing in more detail. Ladies, thank you both so much.
- [103:33]
Eliana Johnson
Thanks.
- [103:34]
Emily Jashinsky
My thank you.
- [103:39]
Megyn Kelly
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