Megyn's Response to Clooney, Hegseth Saga Gets Personal, and Stopping Alzheimer's, with Rich Lowry, MBD, and Dr. Dale Bredesen | Ep. 1055

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Megyn Kelly Show | Episode 1055

Title: Megyn's Response to Clooney, Hegseth Saga Gets Personal, and Stopping Alzheimer's, with Rich Lowry, MBD, and Dr. Dale Bredesen
Release Date: April 23, 2025
Host: Megyn Kelly
Guests: Rich Lowry, Michael Brendan Dougherty (MBD) of National Review, and Dr. Dale Bredesen

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I. Megyn Kelly's Critique of George Clooney's Journalistic Integrity

Timestamp: [00:18] – [13:34]

Megyn Kelly opens the episode by addressing George Clooney's recent endeavors, particularly his Broadway play about Edward R. Murrow. Kelly criticizes Clooney for what she perceives as a lack of genuine journalistic integrity. She argues that Clooney's portrayal of journalism is superficial, highlighting his involvement in political discourse without substantial contributions.

Notable Quotes:

• Megyn Kelly [02:15]: "That's not journalism, George. It's cowardice followed by naked partisanship. You're not fooling anyone."
• Michael Brendan Dougherty [11:50]: "He hosts this fundraiser in Hollywood where Mr. Biden could barely walk or talk. Clooney said nothing. Absolutely nothing."

Kelly emphasizes that Clooney only stepped up to voice concerns about President Biden's fitness for office when it aligned with Democratic electoral interests, questioning his authenticity as a journalist.

II. Pete Hegseth Saga and Department of Defense Turmoil

Timestamp: [13:34] – [43:05]

The conversation shifts to Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense, who is embroiled in controversy after firing three Pentagon employees accused of leaking classified information. Rich Lowry shares personal insights, expressing confidence in one of the accused, Dan Caldwell, whom he has known for years. The trio discusses the internal dynamics of the Department of Defense, suggesting that the turmoil may stem from power struggles rather than genuine security breaches.

Notable Quotes:

• Rich Lowry [25:25]: "I actually know one of the fired people involved, Dan Caldwell... I find the idea that he would leak to liberal press absolutely preposterous."
• Megyn Kelly [35:41]: "This was totally my speculation, but it made me feel like... he's embattled."

Kelly and her guests analyze Vice President Vance’s public support for Hegseth and debate the potential outcomes of the ongoing investigations, highlighting the lack of strong MAGA media support to counteract the negative press from mainstream outlets like Politico and The New York Times.

III. Immigration Policies and the Alien Enemies Act

Timestamp: [43:05] – [73:05]

The discussion deepens into the complexities of U.S. immigration policy, focusing on the controversial Alien Enemies Act. The Supreme Court recently halted deportations under this act, leading to a heated debate about due process and national security. Rich Lowry and Michael Brendan Dougherty express skepticism about the administration's handling of immigration, criticizing the judiciary's interference and advocating for more robust enforcement measures.

Notable Quotes:

• Megyn Kelly [61:30]: "The Supreme Court effectively absconded with the presidency until further notice."
• Rich Lowry [63:23]: "It's utterly ridiculous. The Supreme Court cannot just make up law out of nowhere."

They argue that current judicial rulings undermine presidential authority, potentially leading to a constitutional showdown. The conversation also touches upon the implications of deporting individuals to facilities in El Salvador, raising concerns about human rights and the rule of law.

IV. Larry David's Op-Ed on Hitler and Political Commentary

Timestamp: [73:05] – [81:03]

Megyn Kelly critiques Larry David's recent op-ed titled "My Dinner with Adolf," which draws parallels between a fictional dinner with Hitler and contemporary political figures like Bill Maher. Kelly and her guests find the comparison both controversial and historically inaccurate, emphasizing the absurdity of equating modern political discourse with the atrocities committed by Hitler.

Notable Quotes:

• Megyn Kelly [75:00]: "We're headed for a showdown here, Rich, where if we get more rulings like we got from Judge Charlotte Sweeney, a Biden appointee..."
• Rich Lowry [78:33]: "We have to have something common underlying our law. Or can any fool theory come out of an academic department..."

The segment underscores the dangers of hyperbolic comparisons in political commentary and the media's role in shaping public perception through sensationalist narratives.

V. Supreme Court Case on Parental Rights and LGBTQ in Education

Timestamp: [81:03] – [85:39]

The panel discusses a landmark Supreme Court case involving Maryland parents challenging the inclusion of LGBTQ-themed books in K-12 curricula. Megyn Kelly highlights the parents' demand for opt-outs rather than complete removal of the material, stressing the importance of parental control over their children's education.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Brendan Dougherty [90:43]: "There has to be a substantial infringement."
• Megyn Kelly [82:23]: "Justice Alito... She must force Trump to address this."

Kelly and her guests argue that exposing young children to complex sexual and gender identities without proper parental consent is inappropriate and violates religious freedoms. They predict a favorable outcome for the plaintiffs, citing concerns over age-appropriate education and the sanctity of parental rights.

VI. Dr. Dale Bredesen on Preventing Alzheimer's

Timestamp: [85:39] – [100:22]

In the latter half of the episode, Dr. Dale Bredesen joins Megyn Kelly to discuss his latest insights on preventing Alzheimer's disease. Dr. Bredesen emphasizes a holistic approach encompassing diet, exercise, sleep, and detoxification to maintain cognitive health. He addresses controversial topics such as the potential benefits of medications like Ozempic and the impact of statins on brain health.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Dale Bredesen [87:36]: "We have to get rid of grains, which can damage your gut lining. You want to have a plant-rich, mildly ketogenic diet."
• Megyn Kelly [90:15]: "It's an easy read. He writes in a way that you can consume and digest."

Dr. Bredesen outlines actionable strategies, including high-intensity interval training (HIIT), managing stress, optimizing sleep quality, and reducing exposure to toxins like microplastics and mold. He advocates for adopting these preventive measures early to stave off cognitive decline and improve overall brain health.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Bredesen [94:34]: "Increasing your glutathione level can be achieved through supplements like NAC and acetylcysteine."
• Megyn Kelly [100:19]: "I'm so grateful to you, Dr. Bredesen. Thank you so much for writing the book and coming on and talking to us."

Kelly wraps up the segment by promoting Dr. Bredesen's book, "The Ageless Brain," encouraging listeners to take proactive steps in maintaining their cognitive function through the comprehensive methods discussed.

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Conclusion:

In this episode of The Megyn Kelly Show, Megyn critically examines George Clooney's journalistic endeavors, delves into the internal conflicts within the Department of Defense involving Pete Hegseth, and navigates the contentious landscape of U.S. immigration policy under the Alien Enemies Act. The discussion extends to media portrayal of political figures, the Supreme Court's influence on parental rights in education, and culminates with an insightful conversation with Dr. Dale Bredesen on Alzheimer’s prevention. Throughout, Kelly and her guests provide a no-nonsense analysis of current political and cultural issues, backed by notable quotes and expert opinions, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of the topics at hand.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

Club4 Growth is the premier conservative organization fighting to make President Trump's 2017 tax cuts permanent. If we don't act, your family could face a 22% tax hike. [e-mail] to join the fight.

[Rich Lowry]

For 140 years, MultiCare has been in.

[Megyn Kelly]

Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn [e-mail] welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on Sirius XM channel 111, every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. We begin on the subject of George Clooney, who is busy trying to look 30 years younger than he actually is, with weirdly dyed jet black hair, trying his hand on Broadway way. He's starring in a play about Edward R. Murrow because Clooney fancies himself a journalist, you see, and has lots of thoughts on how journalists need to do journalism. Like he does it mainly, you know, like stumbling upon the biggest story of the decade, that a sitting president is mentally infirm and ought to be 25th amendmented right out of office and then burying it, saying absolutely nothing for weeks on end and then only after that president humiliates himself on the national stage at a presidential debate and then refuses to step down as the entire Democrat party watches its electoral chances up and down the ticket go swirling down the toilet, finally decides to write an op ed in the New York Times saying Joe Biden is not up for the job. That's not journalism, George. It's cowardice followed by naked partisanship. You're not fooling anyone. So now he's starring in this Broadway show. By the way, what's the matter, George? Are the Hollywood roles getting a little hard to come by as you age and get decidedly more smug and self congratulatory? I'm. I'm just asking. And chooses to finish this show by lecturing the audience on how journalism ought to be done. Speaking as Edward R. Murrow, he warns about the ongoing struggle for truth and integrity in the media. Truth and integrity, about the potential for the media to be manipulated and used for propaganda. Apparently, he ends the whole thing with a video montage featuring, as the show closes, yours truly and Elon Musk doing a, quote, nazi salute. Okay? Because Elon Musk and I are the dangers George Clooney fears, not the propaganda that was pushed on us for four years by his favorite leftist so called journalists. That President Biden was fine, that these were all cheap fakes we were seeing, or for the four years before that, that President Trump was a Russian asset. But propaganda that would dare to defend anything done by Donald Trump, that's all propaganda. You see, any defense of Trump is the dangerous propaganda of which he speaks. That's a violation of truth and integrity in media. By the way, one of Clooney's favorite news anchors, not for nothing, is Chris Wallace, who shut down any discussion of Hunter Biden's ties to Ukraine or China at a presidential debate as entirely irrelevant and off limits. That's his fave. So our pal Georgie got wind of the fact that this show mocked him for trying to lecture anyone on journalism, especially given the timeline on his own disclosures about Mr. Biden. Refresher he hosted a fundraiser for Biden on June 15th in which Mr. Biden could barely walk or talk. His appearance was so alarming that it was in the news for two weeks after as it was clear he had to be escorted off stage by Barack Obama. Remember, a debate was raging in the news right then about whether Mr. Biden was fit to be president nevermind for a second term. And Clooney said nothing. Absolutely nothing. Then came the disastrous presidential debate on June 23 and as calls grew steadily louder for Joe Biden to drop out. But he refused. That's when Clooney finally came out with an op ed on July 10, admitting to some of what he had seen a month earlier. He only spoke up when he saw the Democrats electoral prospects swirling down the drain. But now he wants full credit for speaking truth to power and is even lecturing other Democrats for not doing their part. You know, some in my party weren't telling the truth, he said in an interview. In any event, I guess we hurt his thin skinned Hollywood feelings here on the show because these big stars, they're not very good at taking criticism. You see, they're surrounded by yes men, managers, agents, PR folks who tell them that their every idea is brilliant, every thought a treasure. Nothing but profundity coming out of George Clooney's mouth. Maybe that'll give me an invitation to one of his swanky Hollywood parties. So he and Broadway's biggest and oldest bully, Patti LuPone. Remember when she screamed at a ticket holding audience member for not wearing a mask? Watch. Put your mask over your nose.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

That's why you're in the theater.

[Megyn Kelly]

That is the rule.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

If you don't want to follow the.

[Megyn Kelly]

Rule, get the out. You are.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

If you do not respect the people.

[Megyn Kelly]

That are sitting around you, you pay my salary. Chris Harper pays my salary.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Who do you think you are?

[Megyn Kelly]

Just put your mask over your nose. She's an angry woman, very angry, like so many leftist women. So she and George get together and they start navel gazing on stage about themselves, of course, and their vaunted profession and how bad, how just terrible the media is. And had the following exchange. What we do in this is we.

[Patti LuPone]

Talk about the responsibility of journalists to hold truth to power, right?

[Megyn Kelly]

That's our goal.

[Patti LuPone]

And so if you're doing that and we don't tell people what to think.

[Megyn Kelly]

When we show that montage at the.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

End, for instance, you see Megyn Kelly.

[Patti LuPone]

She'S Who's come out and said, you know, I'm not a journalist. I didn't say I was a journalist.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Neither is she, by the way, you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Know, But I'm not quite sure what she's done.

[Patti LuPone]

I've at least been to, you know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Darfur and Sudan in the Congo and.

[Patti LuPone]

Been shot at to try to get stories out.

[Rich Lowry]

And I'm not quite sure what she's.

[Megyn Kelly]

Done to be a journalist. Having said that, we only show her.

[Patti LuPone]

Words in this play.

[Megyn Kelly]

We don't tell people what to think.

[Rich Lowry]

We.

[Patti LuPone]

It's not out of context. We don't manipulate it. We literally just go, these are your words.

[Megyn Kelly]

He actually thinks I'm objecting to something he put on his show about me. I have no idea what you put on your show about me. I couldn't care less, sir. I was mocking you for trying to lecture journalists on how to do journalism based on your own failure to speak truth to power. That's what you. You failed. You only did it when you knew your candidate was gonna cost you up and down the ballot. And so Mr. Clooney is not quite sure what yours truly has done to be a journalist, which surprised me not at all. Not at all. Why would he know anything about the journalism career? I have had absolutely none of my stories held any interest for George Clooney, of that I have no doubt. You see, I've spent the past 20 years interviewing people like Suzette Kelo, who owned the little pink house that got seized by her local government, declaring government domain a decision that went all the way to the U.S. supreme Court. Like the cake baker in Colorado who didn't want to bake a gay wedding cake because it violated his religious beliefs. Oh, and by the way, also the gay couple. He offended people like triple and quadruple amputees back from Iraq and Afghanistan who the Hollywood class looked down upon, actually loathed, judged and Treated like scum because they didn't like those wars. Not like the Ukraine war. No, not at all. What did you do to help the hundreds of men I featured on my Fox News show year after year, George? To help find housing and help for them, to help them rehabilitate their lives. I didn't see you. I see you went to Darfur. That's great. What about our guys? Because I never saw you at a Tunnel to Towers fundraiser at a gathering for our Navy seals. And I've been to many of them. I never saw you at any of the public appearances that I've attended where our injured soldiers are just back from war seeking a helping hand. I guess you never saw the interviews I've done of the Medal of Honors winners. They weren't very interesting to you. Like Dakota Meyer. He didn't want to hear his story about the overwhelming sacrifice he made for this country, both on the battlefield and then back home where had it not been for a guardian angel looking over him, he would have taken that gun. It would have had bullets in it and he would have taken his life in a truck one day. Did you miss that one, George? You didn't make that story into a movie, did you? No, it's been mostly Mark Wahlberg who shows any interest in our troops. I guess you never saw my interview with detransitioner Chloe Cole on what the gender cult has done to our young girls. Or with Peyton McNabb after she suffered permanent nerve damage from a trans volleyball player. Or with Patriot Barbie, AKA Lindsey Graham, who explained to our audience how the draconian lockdowns and intentional ruination of her business in Oregon during COVID led to her finding herself at the US Capitol on January 6th. No, you had no interest in stories like that that actually probed the minds of regular Americans and found out why they did the things you only had an urge to demonize in your elite Hollywood circles. That's not the kind of fearless journalism you're talking about. I could go on, George. The school and mass shootings I've had to cover with tear stained faces all around me. The women who told me their stories of domestic abuse or sexual assault or rape. The women who accused Trump. George, you should have liked that one. And those who accused Joe Biden, too. Wonder if you saw that one. It also got buried by your favorite media stars. I guess these stories never made it on your radar. You were too busy in your hundred million dollar Lake Como mansion or at one of your five other homes running about the stage pretending to be A journalist who speaks truth to power. Now you tell us in that sound bite you even got shot at one time and even that turns out to be a lie consistent with your others. You've told the story many times. You need to be more careful if you're gonna lie like this on camera. You once had a gun pulled on you by a kid in Darfur more than 20 years ago. Only now with Patti LuPone, who you accurately deduce is a moron who will never check, did you change it to you actually got shot at? That didn't happen. George this is not the kind of truth and integrity we want in our profession. So no, it's no surprise that Clooney has not seen much of my work. Not my six presidential debates, not my sit downs with Trump, Putin, Modi Netanyahu, his world is the world of entertainment and cosplaying, human rights advocate on the arm of his wife. You know, the one who followed the professional wrestler he used to date. Maybe in the next decade he'll catch a show or two and catch on to the kind of journalism that has made this show consistently one of, if not the top news shows in the country. Over 2 billion views and news some call relentlessly factual. GEORGE Joining me today, Rich Lowry and Michael Brendan Doherty of National Review. You've heard about tariffs recently, plus inflation, supply chain disruptions. It's a lot. But there is a silver lining that most people missed. President Trump specifically exempted gold and silver bullion from the tariff talk. The administration preserved the ability to diversify into precious metals. If you are concerned about your savings, consider a free consultation with a Birchgold precious metals specialist. The first step is to text MK to 989-898 and receive your free no obligation info kit on gold. Learn how to hold gold and silver in a tax sheltered account. Birchgold will help you convert an existing IRA or 401 into a gold IRA for no money out of pocket with an A rating from the Better Business Bureau and thousands of thankful customers, consider texting MK to 989898 again, text MK to 989898 to claim your free info kit right now. Guys, great to see you. Welcome back. And is it any surprise, is it any surprise to you, Rich Lowry, that George Clooney has, quote, no idea what I've done to call myself a journalist?

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

No, of course not. Classic Hollywood phenomenon. He plays someone in a movie or writes a movie about someone and then thinks he has great insight to what that is and maybe is kind of one himself. Clearly he Says I'm not a journalist. But then he said he did this journalistic thing exposing the truth.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's been to Darfur.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Darfur, yeah. So good for him for his activism there. But look, he lied at the very least by omission about Joe Biden. Right? He hosts this fundraiser in Hollywood. Everyone sees what's happening, everyone sees him freeze on stage. Everyone knows he has debilitated to some extent or other, and no one says anything. And when all of us pointed out who watched it with their own eyes, they said we are making it up. I don't know whether Clooney actually said we were making it up. They certainly was fine with everyone saying that we made it up. And then the debate happens. They can't deny it anymore. Then he comes out with his op ed. Everyone knew he was not the same man that we had seen before. So for him to lecture anyone, anyone, even someone who doesn't have your journalistic record on what fact telling the truth is, even if it hurts and what being factual is, is a complete travesty.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it's the, that's the thing. MBD is. You know as well as I do that George Clooney probably consumes news mostly on msnbc. The reason he liked Chris Wallace is because Chris started to openly lean much more leftward in his interviews, et cetera. And he doesn't have any interest George Clooney in the Suzette kilos of the world. He has zero desire to find out what the COVID lockdowns did to regular Americans and what might have driven somebody to show up at the Capitol on J6. Right. Like those stories are beneath George Clooney, as does he feel the rest of us are?

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, and I worry that there's no core of real conviction with George Clooney. I mean, his first major kind of political statement as an artist was a movie, Three Kings, that criticized George H.W. bush for not finishing the job in Iraq and carrying on an invasion all the way to Baghdad. Years later, of course, when it was no longer in Democrats partisan interest to make an argument like that, he abandoned it like a cheap date. So, like, again, there's just been a theme of raw partisanship, but dressed up as higher principle. And it just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. And why would it? Again, like, we shouldn't necessarily be looking to Hollywood for any kind of guidance in politics.

[Megyn Kelly]

And what's amazing to me is that if he's going to take the time to lecture American journalists on how to do their job, that now's the time he chooses to do it. Right, Rich. Like now. Now, once again, democracy dies in darkness. That crew's back.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah, right.

[Megyn Kelly]

They went totally silent during the four years of Joe Biden. And it's not like he didn't do things to excess. It's not like he didn't ignore our laws. It's not like he didn't, you know, open the southern border. You know, like all those things. He had absolutely no interest in lecturing the press.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

On how to do their job, even though they, they went totally silent during those years. It's only now that Trump's back in office that he feels the need to remind us of our responsibility to truth and integrity.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah, there are a lot of things that are shrouded in darkness. One, the President's condition, which we talked about. We're still learning more about what people on the inside knew and saw and did. Yeah. By, by the day. The border, again, these were things that were out in the open. So the operation to hide them did not succeed because people could see with their own eyes. But they didn't acknowledge that again until late in 2024, the middle 2024, that finally realized, oh, this is going to get Donald Trump elected, we at least should try to do something about it. And then just the insanity of the trans stuff. And there's some cracks there. They're just cracks. Right. It seems it's brave in the democratic context for Gavin Newsom to say, yeah, there's a fairness issue for male, if a male plays in a female sport. But they tried to hide all that. They tried to gaslight us all on that. They said we were hateful, retrograde purveyors of disinformation, all the rest. But the public could see the truth, which is a big reason that Donald Trump won last November.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, like most of these Hollywood people, mbd, he doesn't have a grip on the facts and he hasn't. But he's spoken out about many news stories in an effort to sway public opinion. And probably the one that comes to mind next after Biden was the Breonna Taylor case down in Kentucky, where he's from. So he came out after these officers executed a so called no knock warrant, though they did knock, and they went into the facility, this, this apartment and this woman, Brianna Taylor was shot and killed as they had a shootout with her boyfriend who was in the hallway and shot first at cops. Her boyfriend shot first at cops who had announced themselves in any event. He spoke out about it and said her name was Brianna Taylor and she was shot to death in her bed by three white police officers, which wasn't true. Breonna Taylor was not asleep in her bed. She got up too and came out in the hallway and was standing next to her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker as the officers announced their presence. Knocked six times and then resorted to a forced entry. This guy Walker admitted that he fired the first shot and he hit, he hit an officer in the femur. The guy almost bled to death. Her ex boyfriend was up to his neck in drug deals and she was seen on tape with this guy going to re retrieve packages with him going to a trap house and so on. The media wants you to believe she was squeaky clean. George Clooney wanted us to believe she was. She had absolutely no connection to anyone or anything nefarious. And that while she was asleep, completely innocent in her bed, three white cops just executed her because she's black. That was the implication. Very clear. He was wrong on the facts, he was wrong on the implications. But that's what the Hollywood knee jerk reaction is to news like that. And this guy now feels the need to lecture us about truth and integrity in reporting the facts.

[Rich Lowry]

Right? And remember, like, this is a guy who, who jumped on the story because he's from Kentucky. When was the last time he was in Kentucky? This is a man who spends his time on Lake Como and in Los Angeles. And while he was in Lake Como in Los Angeles there was a huge news story that he could have shown some light on about Harvey Weinste. Where was George? Well, he says, oh well, we knew Harvey liked girls, but we didn't know anything wrong was happening. What, what was that? I mean, at least, you know, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck made like a penitent film, you know, set in the middle ages about sexual assault. George Clooney just sidestepped the whole thing as if he didn't know anything about Harvey Weinstein or about the casting couch culture in Hollywood. And that's a story he actually could have shown on. And yet he goes on, you know, the Academy Awards and congratulates himself and Hollywood for quote, being out of touch with the rest of the country and being ahead of things like, you know, civil rights or gay rights, et cetera. It just, you know, there's no real record of substance there from him where it would have counted. Again, it's just he, he has, you know, he is a filmmaker, he has a taste for story. And so the narrative of what, you know, he thinks should have happened in Kentucky fills his Mind. And then he knows better than the cops what the standard operating procedure should be. I mean, it's a joke, right?

[Megyn Kelly]

Without doing any, you know, homework to look into it. Of course, the subject of Kentucky came up with this loudmouth Patti lupone and he had to mention the Confederate flags. Like, that's the first thing that came to his mind in discussing his home state is the Confederate flags that he sees when he goes back to visit his parents in Kentucky. Nice. That's. Yes, because that's what Kentucky's all about. When you think Kentucky, you think Confederate flag and the Confederacy. I mean, that's his mindset. I really do believe this guy's. Obviously his. His career is waning. His biggest days are behind him. I'm convinced he married this Amal Clooney just because he wanted to make himself seem like a more serious person. So he found some human rights lawyer that would legitimize him. Cause I guess he didn't feel that way with a professional wrestler and now parades around Hollywood like he's some sort of dignitary. Like he's had some ambassador work under his belt. It's not true. You actually have to study. I'm glad he went to Darfur. I'm glad he went to Sudan. But I mean, the fact is, George Clooney must not know anything if he doesn't know that I'm a journalist. I mean, truly, like, not to toot my own horn, but, like, I think literally anybody who watches the news regularly in America would know that and would have some idea of some of the highlights because they have gone everywhere in certain instances. So this is George just being. I only watch CNN or Ms. I'm above it all. But I am in a position to lecture you lowly American losers, especially the MAGA folks, on what you need to be a good, informed person. So good luck with that and your crappy play. Okay, moving on to other items in the news, let's talk about Pete Hegseth, who is in day whatever of an ongoing firestorm. It's been building for a while, but it's getting. You know, I don't know if it's at its apex now or if we're about to get to the apex, but it's. It's climbing where he fired these alleged leakers. He accused these three guys, I mean, you know, the Pentagon. And Pete signed off of it, these three guys at the Pentagon, of leaking material that would have included top secret information to NBC News about attack plans in Panama and said, we've gotten our guys we feel satisfied we're going to continue our investigation, but, you know, I'm satisfied these are the people involved. They've all denied it. And then, I mean, got was the subject of a barrage of bad press every day thereafter. That happened on Friday. It had this guy over in the comms shop who I guess they really didn't love, and he didn't wanna be number two in the shop. And I guess that's all that was available to him. In any event, he left. He wrote a scathing piece in Politico, which is not exactly where right wingers run. Don Drun, Don Jr. Disavowed that guy and said, he's not part of our movement. Don't believe this guy. And then the other two or the other three, at least one of them sat down with Tucker Carlson and said, this isn't about my alleged leaking, which I didn't do. This is about my position on Iran and being more dovish. The other two haven't really spoken out, I think, other than to deny that they're leakers. And now the narrative is building, like, everywhere, because there's not, like a strong MAGA media, you know, online, in the digital lane, you've got MAGA supporters, but there's not like a publication like the Journal or the Post or the Times that's pro Trump, where you can kind of go to hear the MAGA defense. So you've got the Journal ripping on him. This morning I listened to this podcast. Sometimes I listen to a Potomac Watch, which is the Journal editorial board, people. Yeah, that's Paul ripped him to shreds. Right. Chaos, chaos, chaos. And it's just really too much chaos. So he has to go. Which to me seems like, well, you can't fire somebody because of chaos. We have to see if the chaos is real and what caused the chaos and then determine whether that's on him. Right. In any event, you can see him twisting. So far, Trump is saying that he's standing behind him, but for how long remains a fair question. Mbd, your thoughts on it?

[Rich Lowry]

Well, I mean, I'll be totally frank. I actually know one of the. The fired people involved, Dan Caldwell, the one who was on Tucker Carlson. I've known him for about six or seven years. I find the idea that he would leak to liberal press absolutely preposterous. And I would. I would stake quite a bit that he did not leak to NBC at all and that he. And certainly that he didn't leak classified information. And I believe him when he says he didn't. There Are. You know, there are reports today in Politico there was a long report saying that there was actually less ideology than meets the eye in this internal knife fight, that in fact, it was fueled by jealousy from another Hegseth chief of staff Joe Casper, who has just been.

[Megyn Kelly]

Moved out of that post.

[Rich Lowry]

Right. He was the one who supposedly initiated the investigation that led to the firing of those three staffers. And then he is now being pushed into a new role. Why? I hasn't been. I think.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, I can report that he's not the decision maker, however, I can tell you that.

[Rich Lowry]

Right. And. Well, of course he shouldn't. The buck stops with Hegseth. So Hegseth was obviously convinced that these three people did something wrong. I know Dan Caldwell to be a very loyal person who believes he becomes more effective by serving his boss well and then being handed more responsibility. And that's kind of marked his career. And I would stand by his reputation. I don't know. Colin, was another one of these people fired? I don't know him well. And another one, Selnick, doesn't seem to have politics at all, as far as I can tell. No political record. He just has a record of reform in veterans affairs that I think was very strong during the first Trump administration.

[Megyn Kelly]

And which we don't know. It could be that, like, one of these guys is the suspected leaker and the other two have shrapnel wounds. You know, like, I have no idea. But you're right, I haven't been able to determine, like, what did the other two have to do with it? Caldwell seems to be the face of it, and I'm not sure what the relationship. It sounds like these three knew each other and were friendly and were friendly with Pete, too, which is to your point about this might be about or might have at least started with some sort of internal personality clashes or power struggles.

[Rich Lowry]

Right. I mean, these three were. I've definitely been in same networks together and networks together with veterans, networks together that Pete Hegseth was a part of before he became head of the DoD. So people who are not privileged in that way may have. May have been jealous of their influence, even if there was no, you know, political content to that jealousy. At the same time, there are politics to this, and it is interesting to see that there are people now rallying to Pete's side this week who three or four weeks ago were saying that what he did on the signal chat was worth resigning over.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let me ask you that. Is that more Neo Connie people? Because it's very Interesting to watch the factions because Caldwell goes on with Tucker and says, what really was behind my termination is I am dovish on Iran. Do not think we should be bombing Iran through Israel or any other way. And now you have people who would like us to bomb Iran. Like, is Pete so bad? Because they're like, they're deducing maybe Pete's on the opposite side.

[Rich Lowry]

Well, I think, I think there's fear that who, if Pete Hegseth goes, who replaces him? You know, it could be someone already in the Department of Defense, someone like Elbridge Colby who has said, like, oh, we can contain Iran. Ukraine is a tertiary issue. We need to focus on China. You know, that that would be seen as a bigger threat. And Colby is a established kind of old school Republican hand. He's sort of like out of central casting from the 1950s through 70s and knows where the bodies are buried. He could be very effective. Whereas people may think Pete Hegseth is not totally in the camp of the restrainers and not totally in the camp of, of the hawks, but, you know, wants to serve his, his president. And, and you know, the president himself is not hyper ideological on these questions. You know, the president is willing to strike Iran, is willing, you know, to take out Soleimani, is willing to bomb them and has said that Iran, yeah, Iran can't have a nuclear weapon. And he's willing to, you know, make the ground shake in order to bring that, you know, bring that fact into existence. So, you know, it's, it, it's very consequent. The, the, the person who leads the Department of Defense is extremely consequential. And so it's not a surprise that there's intense rivalry. I mean, this is the, the biggest human organization on the planet. You know, what you'd like to see is for, for Hegseth to succeed. And Dan Caldwell said he wants to succeed on the Tucker Carlson Show. I think Hexith has to assert, you know, a very firm chain of command at which he's at the top. There are no more rival risk factions below him that any rivalries that exist exist to serve him and to serve the President. Right. To, to get the best advice, to get the best diversity of perspectives ahead of a major decision and not to have this kind of knife fighting because, I mean, it seems to me like a lot of people have been fired that can make a good contribution to our national security. And I think, I think it's a.

[Megyn Kelly]

Shame we just don't know what they know. You know, if, if some evidence comes out that they actually were funneling top secret information to NBC News, they'd have to be fired. Like, I have no idea whether that's coming. But I'm just saying, for example, that would be a no brainer. And we don't know. But it certainly appears that some faction of these four, that comms guy Elliot is his last name, or these three accused but denying that they are leakers are leaking to the press right now because Pete's on the other end of a battering ram since they got fired on Friday. It's like the New York Times had a long hit piece. Politico's had repeated hit pieces. NPR is reporting that they're looking for a new Pentagon chief, but that's one anonymous source. And NPR is not exactly known for its Trump world exclusives. So I don't.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

George Clooney might be more plugged in than npr.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. Seriously, if I saw that from like Fox News, I'd pay attention. But yeah, I don't until. I don't really know about the NPR sourcing there. I want to play this for you, Rich. Vice President Vance weighed in on Hegseth just this morning. Here's what he said.

[Rich Lowry]

Look, I have 100% confidence in the secretary.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

I know the president does, and really.

[Megyn Kelly]

The entire team does. It's one of the most bizarre things.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

About the Hegseth nomination.

[Rich Lowry]

From the very beginning, the media seemed.

[Megyn Kelly]

To want to tank it.

[Rich Lowry]

And when they failed and they got confirmed, they decided they wanted to keep on that effort to destroy Pete Hegseth as the man, as the secretary of Defense. I think he's doing a great job.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

I think that he's brought a certain.

[Megyn Kelly]

Spirit back to the Department of Defense.

[Rich Lowry]

And if you look at our military.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Recruitment numbers, that's in my, in my.

[Rich Lowry]

View, the best testament to his leadership of the military is that for the.

[Megyn Kelly]

First time in a very long time.

[Rich Lowry]

We don't have terrible recruitment problems in.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

The army, the Navy and the Air Force.

[Rich Lowry]

That's a great testament to his leadership.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I wish, frankly, the press talked.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

More about that and not about anonymous sourcing from random staffers.

[Megyn Kelly]

The recruiting numbers are good. They're very good, Rich. But look, you and I both know that they always say they're standing behind the person until they, it's never, it's.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Never 80% support, right? It's always 100%.

[Megyn Kelly]

So it's like almost meaningless to play those sound bites in all, in all fairness, but at least publicly, Monday and Tuesday now, or I guess Monday and Wednesday, we've had direct Sound bites from the president and Vice President saying they are fully behind Pete.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah. So you're right. What you said at the top of this segment, you got this dynamic going in the media where their headlines about chaos at the Pentagon and their headlines about headlines about chaos at the Pentagon. Right. So, so they want to create this phenomenon and very often it works. It's not going to work with, with Trump. I wouldn't expect him to be dumped over this anytime soon. But what's disturbing and it relates to what J.D. said, right? Because J.D. went right to Pete's strength. Right. Inspirational figure, more recruiting people want to go and be in that organization that he's going to devote to war fighting. When people want to sign up for the military, that's why they want to do it. Right. So everyone who is in favor of his nomination said he's a change agent, jolt of energy, better recruiting, great communicator. All that's true. But no one said he's a great administrator and we're extremely confident he can run the Pentagon. And what's disturbing about this, it'd be one thing if the building just randomly the establishment were shooting at him and I'm sure it is. But this was a war, an ugly war for power and influence among his people, his loyalists, who he brought in to help him run the building. So I still think the big question is some people have rocky starts when they have take major steps in responsibility like this and they figure it out, they learn from it and it evens out. But there is a question, a bigger question now, whether he'll be able to run the building. And this thing about the signal chat, who knows? We haven't seen a journalist wasn't cc'd on that, so we haven't actually seen them. But it just feels to me when you're roping in your wife, you know, your brother, your lawyer, you are someone who feels embattled, doesn't know who to trust. And you're going down to this core of the very most loyal people you have. And that's just, you're not going to be able to run the building that way.

[Patti LuPone]

Right.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

He needs, he did some big chief of staff who can really do this job. That's probably not within his current circle of trust, but he has to develop trust with. And this just isn't easy. You know, a lot of people aren't managers and this is a huge managerial job. So I don't think he's going to get ousted for this. I would expect them to continue to support him. But I think there are concerns whether he can figure this out and he needs to start figuring out because it's a big job and everyone should want him to succeed.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, I will say this. Mbd, this second signal text chain was reportedly with Pete, with his brother and his lawyer, both of whom are Pentagon employees now, and his wife, who's not, and some other collection. And I don't know who they are. Okay. It's, I'm told that what's on there was declassified like that they, he didn't share any classified information. But let me say this. Where was this leftist freak out when Joe Biden had Jill Biden at Cabinet meetings? Sitting at the Resolute desk with his chair, his jacket on the back of her chair. She shepherded him, him around to every official function. We have no idea whether she was secretly our president, but she absolutely was. At Cabinet meetings. They didn't care at all.

[Rich Lowry]

No. And not only that, her, her close aide was also responsible for guarding the president from staff and from other cabinet members. From the reporting we've seen, we saw that after the debate, Hunter Biden then came in and started performing that role. And there was no, there was no, you know, sign of outrage. This was just a family coming together to help, you know, help their man in distress.

[Megyn Kelly]

And he loves his son. He loves his son.

[Rich Lowry]

You know. You know, one interesting possibility brought up, you know, one, one thing I think people could look out for in the following days is are the leaks still coming? So, and are they coming from, from within the Pentagon?

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Right.

[Rich Lowry]

Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

So if they, they're not done.

[Rich Lowry]

If they are, if they are, could it be really be these three guys? I mean, if, if they're leaking stuff that's actively in the Pentagon. And secondly, Caldwell, the Defense Policy Board, which is not really a well known institution, but it's this, this is something that is filled with Biden era appointments like Susan Rice, Michelle Flournoy, Michael Hanlon of Brookings. Lots of Biden era people are still on it. They haven't met since the Trump administration has taken office. But they all have security clearances, they all have access to career employees in the Department of Defense. And you know, that is not an unreasonable place to look for leaks when you're talking, when the news outlets are NBC and Politico.

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't think Susan Rice and Michelle Flournoy are going to be on the Defense advisory board for much longer. Trump, as we all know, has had his hands full. But I'm going to make a bold prediction that they shouldn't get too comfortable in their seats. Go ahead, Rich, what were you going to say?

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah, I was going to say when this first broke and they're basically frog marched out of the building, I thought they had to have receipts. There's no way this happened without serious receipts. But then Caldwell's denial so categorical with Tucker, as you pointed out, I think yesterday, Megan, there's some legal jeopardy here. So usually if you have exposure, you're not going and talking about it at length with a high profile interviewer the way he did. And then hecseth in his interview on Fox and friend with Brian kill me. And I thought Brian did a great job. He said something that made my ears perked up. He said and they or others around them might have been leaking. So wait a minute, so was it, was it them and we know it's them and that's why they're removed and fired or is it someone around them and who are those people? So, so the big question mark, whatever.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was like if, if it was one of one of these guys or if it was somebody else that leaked that story to NBC News with, I mean actual that the Pentagon had been asked to draw up attack plans for Panama is going to jail, that that person's going to prison. I have no idea who it is. But forget like the leak that Elon Musk came to the Pentagon and got a briefing. Forget all the other stuff like that. That report, whoever leaked to the NBC News reporter is probably going to jail. So I do believe that in any department of Defense they would get to the bottom of who did that. It shouldn't be too difficult. You know, there are lots of ways to find leakers. It's just a question of whether they will and I guess what cooperation they're going to get from their suspects. Whether it's goes beyond these three. I want to play a sound bite of Pete on Fox and Friends yesterday. Listen here.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

I mean, I've gotten a fraction of what President Trump got in that first term. What he's endured is superhuman. It's not hard for me to do this job. I know exactly why I'm here. To bring war fighting and the war fighting ethos back to the Pentagon, to rip out the insidious ideologies and not compromise and not back down. To bring in new press voices into the Pentagon, which we've done to reestablish standards and accountability, to not tolerate leakers, to 100% operational control of our border, to get rid of translunacy in the military. We haven't Backed down. See, here's the thing. A lot of people come to Washington and they just play the game and it's. You punch their ticket and get along to go along and, you know, start doing Meet the Press and going to the Council on Foreign Relations and spending time with all the new cocktail sipping crowd. That's not why I'm here. I'm here because President Trump asked me to bring war fighting back to the Pentagon every single day. That is our focus. And if people don't like it, they can come after me. No worries. I'm standing right here. The war fighters are behind us. Our enemies know they're on notice. Our allies know we're behind them. And that in this dangerous world for the American people is what it's all about.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, I'm just gonna be honest. I don't think that was that great. The first half was solid and right on. And then it seemed to me he, he was a little nervous. He struck me as nervous, which you don't normally see with Pete and certainly somebody who's on TV as often as Pete has been. And so this is totally my speculation, but it made me feel like. Not that they have him on the ropes. Exactly, Rich. But I feel like he knows he's embattled. Like the voice going up and like getting super defensive toward the end.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

That to me more than anything else. Telegraph. Like, he might be a little worried here.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah. So look, great communicator. No doubt about it. Great communicator. There's a reason he was on tv, but a little overly defensive. A little excitable, kind of jumping around a little bit. There's some people giving the advice, don't do any more media for the time being. But I just. His. His survival there and his success, which is more important. You know, Pete Hexseth doesn't matter in the scheme of things. You want him actually to make our force more. More lethal and lean and mean and all that depends on running the building. And it's just, it's really hard coming in as a change agent, one of these big agencies. It's really, really hard. Very few people actually succeed in it, but he, he needs, he needs some help in that regard. And this first, the first team of, of people he brought in that he thought were loyalists, maybe weren't, obviously is not it. So he's going to have a second buy of the apple, but we should, we should hope he has some serious administrators who can run the place for him.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. I say, like, still totally rooting for Him. I think he probably will survive this unless there's other, some other big shoe to drop. Like we had leaks, there was an investigation. They tell us they found the leakers. Those guys deny it, but that's what the Pentagon says that they are. And then a barrage of negative press accounts about Pete hit the news. I don't think that makes a fireable Defense secretary, not in Trump world. I think Trump's gonna understand what's happening right now. And if now, if there's ongoing problems, if this becomes chronic and it's just like a distraction, then he'll turf him cuz he's not afraid of firing people. But I don't think we're there yet. I'll just wait to see what else. I do believe other negative press will be coming and we'll see what it is and how it's handled. I mean, it's so weird to be getting your Trump updates in Politico and the New York Times. I mean, it's just ridiculous. Who are these people? Who turns to them? Okay, anyway, moving on. Did you catch the Larry David piece, obviously on Bill Maher. This is a couple days old now, but we haven't talked about it on the show and it's just amazing. So he pens a piece in the New York Times and op ed called My Dinner with Adolf. It comes on the heels of Maher's dinner with Trump. He doesn't name Maher, it's very clearly about Maher. In part it reads, imagine my surprise when in the spring of 1939, a letter arrived at my house inviting me to dinner at the old chancellery with the world's most reviled man, Adolf Hitler. I had been a vocal critic of his on the radio from the beginning, pretty much predicting everything he was going to do on the road to dictatorship. No one I knew encouraged me to go, he's Hitler, he's a monster in quotes. But eventually I concluded that hate gets us nowhere. I knew he couldn't change his views, but we need to talk to the other side, even if it has invaded and annexed other countries and committed unspeakable crimes against humanity. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I joke that I was surprised to see him in a tan suit because if he wore that out, it would be perceived as unfurer. Like that amused him to no end. And I realized I'd never seen him laugh before. Suddenly he seemed so human. Here I was, prepared to meet Hitler, the one I'd seen and heard, the public Hitler. But this private Hitler was a completely different Animal. And oddly enough, this one seemed more authentic, like this was the real Hitler. The whole thing had my head spinning. Two hours later, the dinner was over and the Fuhrer escorted me to the door. I'm so glad to have met you. I hope I'm no longer the monster you thought I was. I must say, Meinfuhrer, I'm so thankful I came. Although we disagree on many issues, it doesn't mean that we have to hate each other. And with that, I gave him a Nazi salute and walked out into the night. This is unbelievable, Michael. Unbelievable. So, I mean, I'm all to remember when you weren't supposed to use Hitler to make your points, you know, but. Okay, I guess we're past that. Your thoughts on it?

[Rich Lowry]

I mean, I, I have to say I'm surprised. Larry David has appeared on Saturday Night Live with Trump and like making a joke like where he shouts Trump's a racist. And like a, like an annoying liberal lefty from Hollywood would. And it seemed to be he was self deprecating on this point. And in fact one, one of his, there's an, a very funny episode of his show Curb youb Enthusiasm where he decides that wearing a MAGA hat is a perfect way of getting out of awkward social obligations in Hollywood.

[Megyn Kelly]

And also when he wants to, goes into a Holocaust museum and steals the shoes that are on display of Holocaust victims because he needs new shoes. Like he's been, yeah. Irreverent, certainly when it comes to the Holocaust. And obviously Trump, very irreverent.

[Rich Lowry]

And irreverent too. I mean, you know, arguably like there was a, there was an episode of a show where he came to discover that his, you know, descendants were not C O H E n cone, but C O N e cone. And like the episode was basically like an anti Semitic tract of him discovering that he was like, of Christian parentage. And then he became like a nicer, kinder, gentler, braver, more voluntaristic person. I mean, so I always thought of Larry David as someone who, you know, stood aside from liberal pieties in Hollywood and in fact made fun of them. And then so I was actually just shocked that he, you know, didn't you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hear about his fight with Alan Dershowitz? Alan Dershow has been railing about Larry David for calling him out for defending Trump in the first impeachment trial for years now. You know how Alan, he holds a grudge and so he, yeah, he, he basically screamed at Allen in a Martha's Vineyard like 711 for doing this. He's not a Tolerant guy. I don't know, Rich. To me, like, it really is amazing that he wrote this and that the Times printed this.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah, they always go to Hitler. It's so boring, it's so conventional. But they can't help themselves. There's nothing that Trump has in common with Hitler. Right. He's a thoroughly American figure, runs through this populist tradition, going through Andrew Jackson, Huey Long, George Wallace, not the racism of George Wallace, but the anti elitism and there are things to like and really dislike about that tradition. That's all fair game, but they got to go to Hitler. And look, Bill Maher did the right thing, right? Donald Trump, like it or not, is at the center of our national life. Bill Maher is a hugely consequential commentator who talks about Donald Trump all the time. He should know as much as he reasonably can about Donald Trump. And as Winston Churchill used to say, there's nothing like being there, going yourself and seeing yourself. And he learned things about Donald Trump, right. And they didn't accord with his worldview. And unlike George Clooney until the last moment with Joe Biden, he admits it and will admit the attention and say he actually learned something and he's going to share it with his viewers, which is the honest, factual thing to do. And the fact is, Donald Trump in person, he's a professional host in part, so he can be extremely gracious. He's a great one on one politician, which accounts for a lot of his hold on the Republican Party, which you might miss unless you know that about him. And now Bill Maher knows it. He went and found out which was the right thing to do.

[Megyn Kelly]

And, and Larry David digs in saying basically, but you met with Hitler. We don't want to hear about the softer side of Hitler. That's really what he's saying here without it ever even occurring to him. What if what's happening is he's not Hitler and Bill Maher is starting to realize that, like, might there be secret option number two? Stay with me here, Larry. That Trump actually doesn't annex countries and hasn't killed 6 million people and might actually be somebody who could really help the country out. I said it. He can't. That he's too far gone, the TDS is too advanced. It's a stage five TDS situation. I'm sorry, but. Oh, well. Okay, stand by, Rich and mbd. Stay with me. Quick break first. Okay, so you're thinking about what to get that person who has everything, that annoying person who is going to get a gift from you maybe. You are that annoying person who has everything and you just happen to appreciate the finer things. Well, if you want something really special, I have got the answer for you. And I'm not kidding around. Hot salt. Not any hot salt. Okay. Exquisite, savory heat. Now you're interested. So let me tell you about Firecracker Farm. It's a wonderful little family company that makes these amazing products. Hot salt, a delightful spice infused sea salt, to be specific. It has the perfect amount of heat and amazing flavor that makes everything taste better. Words getting out. And people are loving it. They almost ran out the last time we did the ad over the Christmas season. They're like people couldn't get it. So get there while it gettin's good. That is because it's made with love. Everyone wants it. They can feel it, they can taste it. It's a small batch family operation, so supplies are limited. As I mentioned, comes in sleek stainless steel push grinders. Plus you can take them anywhere. When you run out, they have refills. A little too spicy for you. Toughen up. No, you just mix it in with some regular sea salt to tame the heat. But you will not need to. It's blended to perfection. Honestly, it's the best thing to happen to food since fire. That's the truth. What are you waiting for? Go to Firecracker Farm right now. Use the code MK at checkout. That will get you a special discount. Firecracker Farm. Code mk. Get some hot salt before it's all gone. You'll thank me.

[Patti LuPone]

What did Hitler do in the Holocaust?

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

He took people from Germany to other countries.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, where there was no German law.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

There was not even a pretense of German law.

[Patti LuPone]

They took him to Poland or, you.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Know, Hungary or whatever and they killed him.

[Megyn Kelly]

And so when you see what's happening.

[Patti LuPone]

Right now with this El Salvador and gulag, I mean the Sikat Gulag, he's basically taking a page out of that playbook. You think, well, but get some out of the country.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, that's more Hitler talk from Chris Matthews and Jim Acosta. Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. Back with you now, Rich Lowry and MBD Michael Brendan Dougherty of National Review become an NR plus member today to get all of their content. I love NR plus. I don't agree with everything they write, but I love them all. All except for one and that I'll keep. Anyway. There's no one on this show. Okay, so yeah, more Hitler esque talk this time about the El Salvador in prison. That's why he's doing it, because he's going to ship them overseas and kill them. That I heard that phrase come out. They don't point out that most of the people who have been shipped there so far are El Salvadoran, and if not, they're Venezuelan gang members who we could put in prisons here, too. And by the way, any illegal who gets arrested and, you know, has to face deportation and a hearing has to go to jail. That's what, that's what we're supposed to be doing. We haven't been under Joe Biden, but you're supposed to hold them. Unfortunately, you're only allowed to hold him for 90 days, and then you got to let them roam and then they're never seen from again. But what Trump is doing is saying these are people who have been deported. We believe that the vast majority of these people, if not all these people, have already been deported, like ordered, removed. They had their due process, and now he's doing exactly that. Now, what's going to happen to them after a year in this prison? I don't know because, you know, you can't hold them forever. But I haven't seen any assurances that's not the plan. I'm not sure, Rich, but where do you stand on, on the El Salvador in prison and in general on what Trump's doing with the immigration reform?

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah. So this is my latest hot take on this. Megan1, the politics are just terrible for Democrats. Right. Because if you say I'm advocating they have so little credibility on immigration. If you say I'm advocating for a legal immigrant who may have beaten his wife, probably did beat his wife, may be a member of Ms. 13, but it's all about due process. A lot of the public's just going to hear, oh, you're advocating for an illegal immigrant who may have beaten his wife, may be a member of Ms. 13. So this is not a good issue for them. But I think, like, substantively, in terms of where we are in deportations, it's the whole alien enemies thing is, is a blind alley. Let's say the administration succeeds legally, which seems unlikely, but all the TDA members go to that prison in El Salvador. Okay, great. We still have 18 million illegal immigrants here. And so far, there are a couple of things that need to happen to really deal with that. Many people pointed out, you've pointed out the problem is they come in here without any due process. Right. And then once they're here, there's all these procedures, and it's so hard to get them out. So one, you need any Congress, we need more ICE officers, we more detention space. During the campaign, they were talking about massive tent cities to house people. Where's that? Well, you need Congress to fund it, and then you need reform of the asylum system, which is an outrage, which was abused by this guy Abrego Garcia. Not technically asylum, withholding a removal, but it was basically the same thing. It was absurd. You know, his family suffered from gang violence. They weren't persecuted in El Salvador, and the business that was being extorted had closed at the time. He got this withholding a removal. So the occasion for this extortion that he was complaining about was no longer there. And then the gang got crushed.

[Patti LuPone]

Right.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

So there's no fear whatsoever. And he was still living free in this country. So you need to change all that. But also, I think it's from the power of the Trump administration now to do work site raids. And it's understandable they're going after the worst of the worst. You do that for some substantive reasons. Obviously you do it for the politics. But you got to making up the numbers. You got to send like 15 ICE agents to get one guy because he might be a threat, he might shoot at you. Right. You need a lot of robust presence. Work site raids. You send five ICE agents to a meatpacking plant in Iowa and you get 150 guys and you deport them and then you fine the hell out of that meatpacking plant. And then what happens is every other meat packing plant in Iowa says, we don't want to be fined. They go to their legal employees, sorry, guys, you know, you can't work here anymore. And then you might have some of those legal employees saying, you know what, I don't want to be deported, I don't want to be held in detention. I'll go home on my own. And the biggest thing we need, which is I've been shocked for 10 years that Donald Trump doesn't talk about this. He's very ambiguous on this issue. You need a so called E VERIFY system that's a foolproof system where you just can't hire people who are illegal aliens. That dries up all the jobs. And then you might have, you know, millions of people saying we don't want to be here anymore. So we're just not going to be able to cherry pick our way through 18 million people and work through this process and really move the numbers. You need those kind of things to make a big difference. In my mind.

[Megyn Kelly]

No, we're not. Mdd One interesting fact Rich mentioned that Abrego Garcia, he's the one. Ms. 13, an accused wife beater, and he's the one Chris Van Hollen went over there to meet with and was photographed with, with the margaritas in front of them. And he, oh, it's a set up. Oh, you know, they set me up. Well, if you're too dumb not to understand propaganda, too bad on you. In any event, here he was in 2017. Chris Van Hollen. This, the Heritage foundation tweeted this out and we verified it. It's real. This is 2017. Chris Van Hollen. Shame on President Trump for tearing apart hard working immigrant families. We should be focused on Ms. 13, not scholarship winners. How times have changed. Now he's dancing the waltz with a guy sipping the margaritas, or so it would appear.

[Rich Lowry]

Well, at first, I mean, the first move of Democrats. Right. Was to deny that he was part of MS.13 and try to make him into father of the year. I mean, it was.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Rich Lowry]

I mean, it's, it's pathetic. I do think, I actually disagree with Rich a little bit. I actually think this is giving Democrats a little bit of juice, at least among their base. I mean, I'm seeing all over social media like hysterical conspiracy theories that, like, this is a test run. They're going to do this to.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Right.

[Rich Lowry]

You know, a deportable alien first and then they're going to start doing it to them.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah, Rachel Maddow will be next.

[Rich Lowry]

Yeah, right, exactly. And, and so I do think it is, I, I think it's actually the first time since Trump has been inaugurated that Democrats have been able to focus on one story and bring sustained attention to it. I, again, I agree with Richard. It probably doesn't work with independents and it certainly doesn't work with Republicans. But motivating the base is what Democrats have to do to start rebuilding their party, getting fundraising up, and I think that's what's what they're doing. And you know, El Salvador officials are very cagey in getting Brio Garcia to be dressed up in, you know, civilian clothes, not looking like, you know, like he's coming out of Dachau or something like that. He looks like, he almost looked like he was at a resort with the, with the cup in front of him.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was a little bit, the plaid summer colors, the button down shirt. Yeah. More and more we're hearing this and Trump made some comment about like, you know, we've, it was like a reference to possible American criminals being sent to this prison. And the left of Course, that just fed right into their belief that, yeah, Rachel Maddow is going to go, he's just going to start deporting people he doesn't like. He wasn't talking about deporting Americans. He was talking about prison space. And like, it'd be great if we could house some of our worst prisoners in a place like this so we didn't have to worry about them. But this keeps getting brought up by the left as like proof he wants to ship Americans, you know, law abiding Americans or any other kind of Americans, you know, without due process to El Salvador. Here's Simone Sanders to the point you just made on msnbc. The realistic way in which democracies die is it is dismantled brick by brick, piece by piece. That is why Kilmar Abrego Garcia's specific case, the case of the gentleman who's a makeup artist out of California who was also sent to that prison. That is why the more the 75% of the folks who have been sent, the men who have been sent there that don't have criminal records, that is why this is so important. Because if they could do it to them, if they could snatch students off the street without any pushback or recourse, they will do it to any of us. To be very clear, it's going to be the people of color and vulnerable communities that are next to. That is the only proper response. Rich Lowry, thank you for knowing exactly what to say.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah, of course. I think this, this Megan, though it does go to contradiction. On the one hand, illegal immigrants, they should be detained until their proceedings are fully worked out and they're removed. That's what the law says. And we just never done it. No one's done it. Abrego Garcia was released during the first Trump administration. He should have been held. They all should be held. But we need more detention space to do that. But if the argument is, well, this in El Salvador is just basically detention space like in America, then you're going to get the courts saying, well, okay, you effectively have control over all these prisoners. So if we're telling you to bring them back, it's not a foreign policy issue. It's just a US Detention space like any other, just happens to be overseas. So again, I just don't. They're straining at every possible, looking for every possible avenue they can touch to hopscotch, procedural obstacles to get the numbers of deportations up. Right, because we had 10 million come in or whatever it was the last four years. And they gotta go and they should Go. I just don't think they're gonna prevail on this one.

[Megyn Kelly]

What's crazy, Michael, is that you've now got, you know, you had the Supreme Court weigh in twice so far on the Alien Enemies act, which is Trump's best tool, he thinks, toward getting these people outta here and getting them out fast. And the first one was, this statute is reviewable, but only in small part. And the second was, and to say if you want to bring a challenge under it, you have to file a habeas proceeding, meaning an objection to whether you qualify as, like an actual gang member under his order in the jurisdiction where you're being held. So, you know, not in front of D.C. judge Boasberg, but in that case, it was in Texas where they had the deportees. And then secondly, they just waited on Friday night to say, stop all deportations under the alien, Alien Enemies act until we can figure out what's going on. Which was very sweeping. 7 to 2. Alito went off the next day. And not a good ruling for Trump, but not a permanent. That's like, just stop until we can address this case on the merits and it's working its way up. But what you got in the meantime was this decision from this Judge Sweeney, Judge Charlotte Sweeney, a Biden appointee who just ruled that she's, first of all, she's certified a putative class, meaning she's given the initial blessing for this whole thing to be on a class action track for all Alien Enemies act deportees to be part of a class, and said they have to get at least 21 days notice before you can remove them. So she said the Supreme Court didn't say how much due process is enough, but according to this judge, we have to, for 21 days, we got to let these people stick around. This is the worst of the worst. Can you imagine what's going to happen when we get to the ones who aren't additional criminals?

[Rich Lowry]

I mean, it's, it is preposterous. I mean, the idea that you're going to have ice roll up and give this 21 day notice, which is like you have three weeks to disappear from here and find a cousin in another state to stay with until we lose you again. I mean, it's utterly ridiculous. It's, it's basically lawless. You know, I understand, you know, some, I understand a little bit why some Democrats and, and some judges are alarmed by the use of this act, whether it's really proper to consider illegal immigrants part of a hostile invasion in the laws.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Of war.

[Rich Lowry]

I understand that reticence, but you can't just make up law out of nowhere and invent judicial process from nothing. But we've seen this over and over again, this judicial brinksmanship under Trump that is absolutely destabilizing to self government. And you know, it's not a surprise that you're getting a lot of, you know, MAGA Republicans getting radicalized about the judiciary and saying, you know, we need to, you know, in the words of Judy Vance, like the court's issued its warning, now let the court enforce it it and just ignore the judicial branch. I don't think Donald Trump wants to go that far. But boy, that ruling really is tempting, is a tempting test case.

[Megyn Kelly]

Here's what she said. The government must provide both petitioners in this case, this is out of Colorado district court and the provisionally certified class of individuals they seek to represent, meaning all deportees under the Alien Enemies act with a 21 day notice to the individual detained pursuant to the act. So anybody who's going to be deported pursuant to the Alien Enemies act and Trump's proclamation to get a 21 day notice must state the government intends to remove the individual pursuant to the act. And the proclamation must provide notice of a right to seek judicial review, must inform the individuals that they may consult an attorney regarding their detainment and the government's intent to remove them. Must be written in a language that the individual understands. I mean these are people who literally crossed our southern border illegally, committed crimes against American citizens when they got here, in some cases, resisted Tom Homan when he tried to arrest them. And now, I mean this is unbelievable. Each one gets 21 day notice and hearing what's next, like court appointed counsel. So we're paying for their defense and all the way through to the U.S. supreme Court. Each one of these guys is going to appeal up to the US Supreme Court on the worst. This is why, this is why we really are headed for a showdown here, Rich, where if we get more rulings like we got from our Colorado friend Charlotte Sweeney, a Biden appointee who hasn't done anything in her very short career to distinguish herself as a foreign policy expert or an immigration expert, but now thinks she's co president is really, they're tempting. They're begging Trump to ignore them.

[Patti LuPone]

Yeah.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

So on the procedures, this is why we should do many more expedited removals. My understanding the statute, you can do an expedited removal. It's basically no process. It's kind of a common sense thing. They come here illegally, you turn them back around and they go home. Right. That's what most people think.

[Megyn Kelly]

But here's the one exception. Here's the one exception. So Trump expanded expedited removal to go beyond just the southern border and the initial encounter. But if they claim asylum, then you do have to give them an asylum.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Yeah. The broken and insane and lunatic asylum process is a huge, huge element of this immigration crisis we've experienced over the last ten years or so. It needs to be drastically reformed. And perhaps my friend Mark Krikorian, center for Immigration Studies, makes a very compelling case we shouldn't do it at all. You know, we can have a certain number of refugees that are in our countries, in some other country and we decide to admit them. But the whole process of someone getting here and then starting this huge procedural process, that means they'll stay. Right. That's how many. That's how it's worked in the, in the past. That's why they're coming. That's why they say these certain things that they think are magic words that get them to stay. That's got to end. We need Congress to do it on this thing. The El Salvador prison. I think there are a couple of reasons the administration's dug in. One, they don't like to admit mistakes. I do think Abrego Garcia, clearly deportable alien, could have been deported anywhere else. I think he should come home and be deported to Panama immediately in accordance with the lawful process. But one, they don't like committing error. Two, they want this power, right, to be able to do this in an expedited manner. Three, as we were discussing earlier, I know NBD disagrees a little bit. They think it's good politics. And four, if, if, if I hope they don't do this, they shouldn't do this. In my mind, if they're going to defy a court on something, this thing is set up perfectly for that purpose. Right. Supreme Court says bring him back and you say, he's no Salvador. You go get him. Right. You go get him to the point.

[Megyn Kelly]

You were just making. Here's Tom Homan on Fox today. SOP4, here's what they're doing.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Here's the plan. The Biden administration overwhelmed the system. 10.5 million people came to the border. They know it's going to take years to get through the court docket. By then, they're hoping there's another democratic administration in. They'll have US Citizen children. Then all of a sudden, nobody wants them removed. We're spoiling their plans to have future Democratic voters and through a census, have control of the House through a census vote Democratic sanctuary cities, get more seats in the House. This is their plan. Through the immigration court, through appeal, after appeal, after appeal. District judge, district judge. To slow us down. Because their hopes is they'll gain power again. Then they can warn amnesty to 10 million illegal aliens that are released in this country illegally.

[Megyn Kelly]

That is your plan.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

We're trying to remove these public safety threats, national security threats, as quick as possible.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, on that, that same front, mbd, as I mentioned, the Supreme Court stopped the deportations under the Alien Enemies act on Friday night. At one in the morning, they stopped them. So when's our hearing? When, when is this resuming? When are we going to know what Trump can do? The Commander in Chief, the duly elected President of the United States, and, and Mike Davis, very smart lawyer with the Article 3 project, just tweeted out the following. Dear Commanding General John Roberts, when does the President of the United States have your permission to resume his military operation to deport the most dangerous terrorists in the Western Hemisphere? Or do you want the President to ship them to the Chevy Chase Country Club? I mean, now we're talking.

[Rich Lowry]

I mean, he's exactly right. I mean, when do we get our President back? Right? I mean, that's. The Supreme Court effectively absconded with the presidency until further notice. And, and we only have Justice Alito standing up. It's insane. And, yes, there are limits, right? You know, you could say that the court order says, oh, you know, we want the President to effectuate bringing back Garcia from El Salvador, but he belongs in our facility.

[Megyn Kelly]

He belongs in El Salvador, not a fiction. And there are.

[Rich Lowry]

He, he belongs in El Salvador, and there are limits. I mean, it's not like the Supreme Court can say, you know, send the Navy and, and, and launch an amphibious invasion and then go rescue him. Give me a break. I mean, this is, this is making up law. I mean, the, the President has an ability to negotiate with other heads of other sovereign heads of states and to proceed and carry out lawful actions. And once he does, there are consequences to that that aren't reversible and aren't justiciable. So, you know, this is, this is going too far. And the Supreme Court had better get out of this by the end of this week because otherwise it is going to be tempting another huge confrontation with the President. And in most cases, when they sit down to rule, they look at the Constitution, they look at Article 1 and Article 2 and they decide, you know, what the president really has authority over executive actions and Congress really has authority over the law and there's nothing we can, you know, do about it. And there's no lacuna to hide in.

[Megyn Kelly]

Here is another thing. Speaking of the Supreme Court, you guys probably saw this case went up yesterday involving Maryland parents who. It's a group of Muslims, Christians and Jews who said, we've had it with your weird hypersexual LGBTQ propaganda being shoved into our children's curriculum in the Pre K through 5 years. Pre K. And I didn't watch the argument yet, but most court observers who I trust think the parents are going to win this, which would be amazing. It will be a very historic ruling if they do the restoration of parental rights. Another, another thing Trump ran on, by the way. And this could be a ruling that could have far ranging implications. Here's a sample of how it went. This is the attorney for the schools, Montgomery county schools. His name's Alan Schoenfeld. Getting the business from Trump appointee Justice Neil Gorsuch.

[Patti LuPone]

They're being used in English language instruction.

[Rich Lowry]

At age three, some of them. So Pride Puppy was the book that was used for the pre kindergarten curriculum. That's no longer in the curriculum.

[Patti LuPone]

That's the one where they are supposed to look for the leather and things and bondage, things like that.

[Rich Lowry]

It's not bondage. It's a woman and a leather sex worker, right? No, no, that's not correct.

[Patti LuPone]

No, my gosh, I read it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is it drag queen?

[Patti LuPone]

Drag queen and drag queen.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Rich Lowry]

The leather that they're pointing to is a woman in a leather jacket and one of the words is drag queen and the service. And they're supposed to look for those.

[Megyn Kelly]

It is an option at the end.

[Rich Lowry]

Of the book, correct?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Okay. They're going down and it's going to be a glorious thing, Rich, when they do go down.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Oh, yeah. Vomitus. God bless these parents for standing up. It's not, not always easy to do this. You know, the Montgomery county what one of their arguments was, we can't have an opt out because so many parents will opt out.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, maybe that's a sign it became unruly. What does that tell you?

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

That's a sign. The public school should be cons. Boring, conventional educational matter. That's it. You know, college. Yeah. You know, take your courses on controversial literary theory or critical theory or whatever, but not in grade school. And I think they, they will prevail. They should prevail. The argument that was made from the progressive side, from the Bench is that this isn't coercion. It's just exposing the children to this material. But that's, that's part of the point, right? These parents don't want their children exposed to Pride Puppy and searching for leather outfits in a book for second graders or whatever it is. It is absurd. The only case you can make for having this stuff in the classroom is that you're going to have an opt out. You shouldn't even have it then. But to not have an opt out is totally sustainable. Wrong. A travesty won't stand.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's all they're asking for is an opt out. This coalition of parents, they're not saying you have to remove it from the curriculum. They're saying we just want an opt out. And by the way, where are all the Muslim advocates? Where's Rashida Tlaib? This is a group, the name plaintiffs are Muslim. A lot of Muslims in this community saying this is totally not kosher with.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Great point.

[Megyn Kelly]

Kosher is the wrong word. But they're not okay with our religion in promoting this stuff. Not one of the representatives is out there. It's all about Palestine for her. She won't, she won't advocate for them. We'll give another one. Here's Justice Kagan. Even Kagan, who, you know, I think technically she's straight. We talked about this another time anyway. But even Kagan seemed a bit taken aback by this going out to the very, very young kids. It's SOT 18.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

I too was struck by these are, you know, young kids picture books. And on matters concerning sexuality, I suspect there are a lot of non religious parents who weren't all that thrilled about this. But I guess I'm searching for what in your legal arguments would allow us to draw lines in this area.

[Patti LuPone]

We think there are lines that can be drawn. They're the same lines that this court has drawn in every other free exercise case.

[Megyn Kelly]

And the burden a plaintiff has to.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Show that its beliefs are religious, that they are sincere. There has to be a substantial infringement.

[Patti LuPone]

And or burden or pressure.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

I'm really searching for something and I know that you realize that and you're still not giving me anything other than if it's in a school and a sincere religious parent has an objection. That objection is always going to result in an opt out. That's a fact.

[Megyn Kelly]

No matter how what, no matter what.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

The instrument, no matter what the materials are, no matter how old the kids are. And that's the rule that schools everywhere.

[Patti LuPone]

In the country are working under right now.

[Megyn Kelly]

Justice Alito, too, also noted that this case involves extremely young children, as young as five, noting that as kids become older, they're better able to make distinctions about what a teacher's presenting. But when they're that young, it's a very different story. It's really up to adults to filter out what's inappropriate for them. Michael, I, I don't, I don't, I don't think this is going to be one of those cases where Roberts goes soft kneed or Amy Cody Barrett goes soft need. I think it's looking like a 6 to 3 decision from what I've read so far.

[Rich Lowry]

I think you're right. I mean, ideally. Not only that ideally, Gorsuch would then run back and try to rewrite Bostock decision because this is actually a downward consequence of that decision. This is him reap what he sewed so many years ago, which is basically that he's. He said that if you read the 1964 Civil Rights act with the same squinted Episcopal eyes that he brought to the case that transgender people have civil rights as, as transgender identity. And of course, the schools in the United States would then follow up with a curriculum to foster respect for the most minority of sexual minorities. Of course, this is the downward effect of that. And he should repent. Like, we should get sackcloth and ashes out. Out. Besides the, the judicial garb. No, I don't think it's going to be close. But there's also a kind of, you know, problem in our ruling about religious freedoms in this is that you have to prove that there's a sincere religious belief. Like, is it really a religious belief that men are men and women are women?

[Megyn Kelly]

It's so true.

[Rich Lowry]

I mean, I suppose it is. I suppose it is. I mean, someone, you know, we could have a school of people come along and say, listen, you know, technically when you sit on a chair, there actually is an exchange of molecules between the chair and your, your physical body. Therefore, there's no distinction between the two. And I can throw you out of a window just as easily as I throw the chair out of a window. And then I have to come say, well, my Christian faith teaches me that in fact a person is a person and a chair is a chair. I mean, give, give me a break. Do we have anything common underlying our law? Or can any fool theory come out of an academic department and lead to us introducing four year olds to leather daddies and, and drag queens? Give me a break.

[Megyn Kelly]

So well said. Yeah, the books are nuts. There's. What are your words? One character in the book says my pronouns are like the weather. They change depending on how I feel. Somebody says sometimes I use all the pronouns I can think of. Another book. Prince and knight grades K through 5. A young prince and a knight fall in love after battling a dragon together. I mean, okay, just like when we were kids, right? I mean like they battle the dragon and then they. They hop in bed together. That's not how the story ends. Born Ready, a mother tells the story of her transgender son Penelope. Again K through 5. Another book called Love Violet, about a same sex crush between classmates. Uncle Bobby's Wedding, where a niece is concerned about her uncle who's engaged to another man, won't spend time with her anymore. Look, I'm just gonna end with this. One of the other news sources that George Clooney loves is 60 Minutes. And let me just show you as I say goodbye how 60 minutes when they had Moms for Liberty on who's been objecting to these kinds of books in our curriculum? K through 12 education. This is how the vaunted 60 Minutes George handled it. There are rogue teachers in America's classrooms right now.

[Rich Lowry]

Rogue teachers.

[Megyn Kelly]

Rogue teachers.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Parents send their children to school to be educated, not indoctrinated into ideology.

[Patti LuPone]

What ideology are they being indoctrinated into?

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's just say children in America cannot read. They often dodged questions with talking points.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

You're being evasive.

[Megyn Kelly]

21% of Hispanic students are reading on grade levels.

[Patti LuPone]

What ideology are the children being indoctrinated into?

[Megyn Kelly]

What is your fear?

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

I think parents fears are realized. They're looking at these books where sexual.

[Megyn Kelly]

Discussions are happening with their children at younger and younger ages.

[Rich Lowry]

Tiffany justice read from sexually explicit books.

[Megyn Kelly]

Written for older teens but found in a few lower schools. Most people wouldn't want them in a lower school, but in a tactic of outrage politics. Moms for Liberty takes a kernel of.

[Rich Lowry]

Truth and concludes these examples are not rare mistakes but a plot to sexualize children.

[Megyn Kelly]

Unbelievable. Now the it's gotten so bad and it was when they sat with him two years ago that this case has gone all the way up to the US Supreme Court and not a party is arguing. It isn't happening. It was not an outrage. Politics measure. It is not a rare mistake. It's policy that they're openly fighting for and fighting to prevent opt outs from Scott and George. So pay attention to some better news sources because that one failed mightily. Unbelievable. Is it not Rich? It's incredible.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

That clip. It's so telling because that is what they used to call the Voice of God. Right. That was Walter Cronkite. That was when there were three broadcast networks and nothing else and they were just telling you the truth. And you sat down for 30 minutes and you had to believe every word they say. His DNA is right from there. That's in his line of authority and he has, has the voice, he has the look, but it's just so obviously stilted and ridiculous and wrong and so, so that, that's why that, that whole mode of media is not as influential as it was and never will be again.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Well said, guys. Great to see you. Thanks for coming.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

See you soon. Megan, I got a programming tip for you by the way, or recommendation. I think you need to do an afternoon update too. So you're doing morning show and afternoon. So you're literally just broadcasting all during the day. Right? Just go do the full thing. Right. Don't hang out.

[Megyn Kelly]

Abigail Finan just screamed from the next room. Oh my gosh. I can't. We're up to here, but the AM update is doing really well so people are enjoying it. So we do it. Anyway, great to see you guys.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Thanks for having us.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, up next, Dr. Dale Bredesen with the latest on how you can prevent Alzheimer's. Yes, it's preventable. Just ask him. These days it feels like nothing surprises us anymore. But not in a good way. The headlines are heavy, the future feels uncertain and so much is out of our control. But one thing you can take control of right now is your family's financial future with life insurance through Select Quote. Whether you need 500,000 or 50 million in coverage, select Quote makes it easy to find the right policy for your unique needs. They have helped over 2 million people find more than 700 billion in coverage since 1985. And they do it fast, often in as little as 15 minutes. Other life insurance brokers might push generic overpriced plans. But select Quotes licensed agents work for you, not the insurance companies. Even if you have a pre existing condition like high blood pressure or diabetes, Selectquote partners with carriers who can still offer coverage. And if you're healthy, you could get same day coverage with no medical exam required. So don't wait for another what if. Consider taking a step to secure your peace of mind. Get the right life insurance for you for [e-mail] Megan that's SelectQuote.com Megan M E G Y N SELECT' they shop, you save. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's here your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius XM at home or at anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free.

[Rich Lowry]

That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months.

[Michael Brendan Dougherty]

Free offer details apply.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you know that a couple of years ago researchers from Blue Cross and Blue Shield association released the following stats? They did a long study and the authors affirmed that while the vast majority of cases of Alzheimer's are found in Americans over the age of 65, between 2013 and 2017, they found a 143% increase in diagnoses for those between 55 and 64, a 311% increase in diagnoses of Alzheimer's for those between 45 and 54, and a 373% increase in diagnoses for those between 30 and 44. So listen up. You need to know what you can do to stave off Alzheimer's. And my next guest, a medical doctor, says you can. He's been on the show before. His name is Dr. Dale Bredesen. I respect him immensely. And he's back with a new book called the Ageless how to sharpen and protect your mind for a lifetime. Dale, welcome back to the show. Wonderful to see you. Those stats are really alarming. So is it actually a growing problem or we're just getting better at diagnosing?

[Patti LuPone]

It's a growing problem. When I was training many years ago, we never saw people in their 40s, 50s. This was a disease of late 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. Now, one of the most common things we see is people who are in their 40s or 50s who are getting diagnosed with Alzheimer's. So yes, we're getting a little better at diagnosing it for sure. There are new blood tests, et cetera. But there's no question it is on the increase in these young groups.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. We've talked before about some of the preventative measures and I wanna go back over some of them now. But I'M gonna lead with the most controversial, but maybe promising. You tell me, can Ozempic help stave off Alzheimer's and dementia?

[Patti LuPone]

It is possible. That's one of the many things, you know, we're hearing from RFK about all these different things. One of the issues is what are we doing about metabolism. We do not have an optimum, as you know, we do not have an optimal metab in most people in this country. Too much high carb food, too much ultra processed food, and a lot of damage, frankly to our metabolic systems. And so this is one of the possibilities. And there are other things as well. There are things you can do to avoid that. But improving your insulin sensitivity, of course, what Ozempic will do will increase your endogenous insulin as well. The problem of course, is that there are some side effects and we don't yet know the long term effects of using GLP1s.

[Megyn Kelly]

What effect on Alzheimer's do statins have? Because I have been hearing all sorts of info about. They're good. No, they're bad.

[Patti LuPone]

Yeah, it's a great point. Because they're both. That's the problem. So they have one effect which is to reduce the overall inflammation. And as I pointed out in the book, which as you know, this book is really about saving synapses for all of us, you know, in the US whether you live to 80, 90, 100, 110, of course people are trying to push that up far to 140, 160, whatever it is. Your lifespan unfortunately is not met often by your brain span. So you get to 40 or 50 or 60 and things just collapse, as you know. And so as you indicated, more young people having a problem. So this is a time in which you've got to look at what are these different drivers and whether. So what'll happen with the statins? Yes, you lower the inflammation, which by the way, you can do with other things. You don't need statins to do that, but you also lower the support for the brain, you lower the cholesterol, and to be fair, you make some in the brain as well. But if you use a statin, if you have to do that, and we recommend you do other things first, there are things like zetia and bergamot and just changing your diet and exercise. A lot of things you can do before you ever need statins. And there are Also things beyond PCSK9 inhibitors can be even better than this. But if you're going to use a statin, use one that would be called a hydrophilic statin that would be like a Crestor instead of one that is a hydrophobic statin, which would be like a Lipitor.

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's go through again. The book is called the ageless brain by Dr. Dale Bredesen, who I completely respect and support. The diet, I mean diet, exercise, supplements and toxins I think are like the big categories. I've heard you say dairy is not great. Now dairy, like you're saying, like Greek yogurt every day, is not good for preventing Alzheimer's because that's. It's like so good for doing so many other things for you.

[Patti LuPone]

Yeah, it's a great point. And for some people it'll be okay. But here's the problem. When you have any sort of dairy can produce some degree of inflammation. So if you've got someone who already has some degree of cognitive decline, or if you're trying to optimize your brain span, then you want to take that into account. You want to get rid of grains, which can damage your lining of your gut. You want to get rid of dairy. And it's not to say you can't slowly reintroduce it in the future, but you have to remember when you see someone who's beginning to have some cognitive decline, only one of two things will happen. Either you will help them to improve, and we've published that many times, or they will die. They will go on to develop Alzheimer's disease and pass away. So we want to do everything possible. We want to pull out all the stops to get the optimal reversal of cognitive decline. And we were the first to publish that back in 2014. And so that does. We want to do everything possible. That includes getting rid of some grains, that includes getting rid of dairy, and it includes getting rid of simple carbs. And then you want to have a plant rich, mildly ketogenic diet. You want to have appropriate exercise, as you said, and just go right down the list. Managing stress, optimizing sleep. These are things that people aren't doing. When I ask people, how much did you sleep last night? What did your wearable show for your sleep? They don't know. So you want to have at least seven hours of sleep at night. You want to have at least an hour and a half of REM each night. You want to have at least one hour of deep sleep each night. And you want to have an oxygen concentration saturation in your blood of at least 94% while you're sleeping. So many people don't have that. So they are getting. This is why the brain Span in America does not equal the lifespan in America. And that's something that, that clearly can be improved.

[Megyn Kelly]

By the way, folks, this can all show up. I have an aura ring on here. They're not paying me. I paid for this. But all that information Dale just mentioned is, comes to me every morning on this Oura ring. You can get a Fitbit, you can get an Apple watch, but all that stuff is very easy to get your arms around to find on exercise. It's a certain kind of exercise, is it? Not? Like I've been told that the best aerobic exercise for somebody trying to stave off Alzheimer's includes at least a couple times a week interval training. Training.

[Patti LuPone]

Yeah, it's a great point. So there's so much now for all of these things that we know that we didn't know even just a few years ago. So as you said, hiit, this high intensity interval training has turned out to be the one that seems to be the most effective at reducing your risk for cognitive decline. But then beyond that, there are things like Kaatsu bands. These are restriction bands that you can put on your arms and your legs. And what they do is they actually give you more bang for your buck. Because what happens, Megan, is you get at different mechanisms. So when you do strength training, you are improving your insulin sensitivity, which is critical for your brain and critical for preventing cognitive decline of Alzheimer's disease. On the other hand, when you do the aerobic training, you are improving blood flow and oxygenation. This is one of the reasons something called EWAT is so helpful, which is exercise with oxygen therapy. EWAT gives you better blood flow and better oxygenation at the same time. So many people find that this very helpful. So there's a lot of new understanding about what works the best and what are things that are available to get best outcomes in that area.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is all in the book. You'll. You can learn more about that. Oxygen therapy sounds kind of fun to like be on the treadmill with your little mask on. I'll do it if it'll help my brain. Again, the book the ageless brain. Dr. Bredesen, of course, also the author of the End of Alzheimer's and many amazing great books. Okay, so a little bit of sleep, we talked about that. A little bit of diet, exercise. Now the detoxification of one's life is very important. It just took a nice step forward today with RFKJ banning some of the food dyes. Not all of them, but he got it the first eight. It's a start. Nobody's even been paying attention to this stuff. But what are the big ones?

[Patti LuPone]

The big three are things that are inorganics. And that would be things like air pollution, we know is a huge issue and that's been published repeatedly as increasing risk for Alzheimer's disease here in California. The California fires. Big issue also, things like mercury amalgams, things like that. So those are all under the inorganics, then the organics. And that's things like anesthetic agents. People have these long anesthetic procedures and then start to go downhill after that. So you need to detox from that. Things like benzene, toluene, glyphosate, all of those are in the organic group. And then finally the biotoxin group. And again, this is something that hasn't even been recognized, hasn't been talked about nearly enough. There are biotoxins that we live with, things like trichothecines and ochratoxin A. And these are things that are typically made by different mold species. And as you know, Megan, one of the ones that's been talked about a lot lately on the organic part is microplastics. There is increasing evidence that, number one, we're all exposed to these things. They're in the air, they're in the water, they're in the food, things like that. What we know now is that they concentrate in your brain. We are all exposed to and ingesting on average, one credit card worth of microplastics each week. So the, the increase in our exposure has been dramatic.

[Megyn Kelly]

Unfortunately, as I mentioned, I mean, like you talk about air pollution and microplastics in the air. Hot, which is like an air filter. Filter.

[Patti LuPone]

Yeah. So there are a couple of things. So air filters, things like HEPA filters for your home. Very helpful. In addition, you can now undergo things like plasma exchange. Plasmapheresis will reduce this by about 70%. Dramatic reductions in these. Whether you do through plasmapheresis, you can also do it through things like sauna and sweating, followed by showers with non toxic soaps. So there are lots of ways to get at this. Increasing your glutathione level. You can take things like NAC and acetylcysteine or S acetylglutathione, any of these sorts of things. Some people will actually go and get IVs with glutathione in them. Something called the PK Protocol could be very helpful. So on and on and on, there are things that can be done. But as you said, you've gotta recognize this, you've gotta know that we are exposed to this, and we now know that they do concentrate in the brain more than the liver, more than the kidney, and we know that they're associated. Your level of microplastics is associated with your risk for cognitive decline. What's not clear yet is whether these are causal or simply an effect. It may be that as you're getting dementia, you allow them into your brain more. That's not been clear yet. So the concern at the moment is that these probably are part of the overall causation of risk for cognitive decline.

[Megyn Kelly]

You gotta have your house tested for mold, and not the air test, the Swiffer test test, where you let the dust build up for two weeks. You wipe the dust, you send the dust rag in. It's. The air test is not worth the paper it's printed on. I went through this personally. We just went through a very expensive renovation of our beach home because it was riddled with mold. Riddled. I learned that from the last time, the first time you came on in 2022. But, I mean, now we've resolved that. Then there's Lyme disease, which a lot of people openly have, and sometimes, just like a latent form of it, you can clean that up. The point is that many people don't want to know, Doc. Like, they're like, if I get it, I'm going to get it. But what you've been saying for so many years now is there really are things you can do to stave it off. And if you would just pay attention now before you're symptomatic or when you just maybe have a couple of symptoms, you really can potentially turn this aircraft carrier around.

[Patti LuPone]

Absolutely. And, in fact, we're rapidly getting to a point where. Where we are able to make sure that nobody gets this. So here's the big problem, Megan. The current standard of care in medicine has got the biggest gap in history between what is being done with the standard of care and what is actually possible and available. You just mentioned that you had your home renovated because it was full of mold. Who's doing that? Not very many people are doing that. There is so much. This gap is what we hope is gonna be addressed by the new administration. You know, when you hear RFK talk about peptides, about bioidentical hormones, about stem cells, about all of these things that have not been the standard of care. What's available today is far more than what is being utilized, and our health is suffering for it.

[Megyn Kelly]

So people need to know that Dr. Bredesen does not need the money. From this book. He's been doing very well. He's in high demand. But he's refreshed this book and put it out there. I mean, it's a new book, but he's refreshed his teachings from the end of Alzheimer's, and it's available right now. All this stuff is in the book. It's called the Ageless Brain. I have it. I highly, highly recommend it. It's an easy read. He writes in a way that you can consume and digest, and then it's a reference for you if you want to figure out what's a plasma exchange, what's PK protocol, all in there. And I know I speak for many when I say I'm so Grateful to you, Dr. Bredesen. Thank you so much for writing the book and coming on and talking to us.

[Patti LuPone]

Thank you, Megan. Great to talk to you, as always.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, the one and only. I mean, everybody loves him. You. Dr. Mark Hyman was on. He loves Dr. Bredesen. There's, like everyone else, and then there's Dr. Bredesen when it comes on to the subject of preventing Alzheimer's. The book, again is the Ageless how to sharpen and protect your mind for a lifetime. We're back tomorrow with Glenn Greenwald. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.