Military Heroes John McPhee and Jason Redman - Megyn Kelly's "Double Feature" of Fascinating Interviews

Summary

The Megyn Kelly Show "Military Heroes Double Feature": John McPhee & Jason Redman

Date: July 5, 2026
Host: Megyn Kelly (SiriusXM)

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Overview

To commemorate July 4th, Megyn Kelly presents a "Double Feature" of archived interviews with two exemplary American veterans:

1. John McPhee, aka the Sheriff of Baghdad - Retired US Army Special Ops Sergeant Major, Delta Force (aka "The Unit"). McPhee shares his journey from a tough Chicago upbringing, through elite military service, and his perspective on war, leadership, and post-combat life.

2. Lt. Jason C. Redman - Decorated Navy SEAL, author, and motivational speaker. Redman details his path from aspiring protector to surviving catastrophic injury in Iraq, his recovery, and the powerful leadership and resilience lessons he now shares.

Both offer raw, introspective, and sometimes humorous insight into the costs, bonds, and mindset forged by serving in America’s modern wars.

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John McPhee: The Sheriff of Baghdad

(Segment: 02:43 - 75:54)

Early Life & Upbringing (02:43 - 13:27)

• Grew up on Chicago's South Side in the ‘70s and ‘80s, the only white kid in his school.
• Faced daily bullying and violence ("They beat you up daily?" "Well, no, until they got me a cab." - 05:03).
• Troubled family situation: young, divorced parents, substance abuse, eventually lived in a brothel with his brother.
• Learned self-reliance and resilience from hardship: "You gotta want to choose good... it's easy for people to be bad." (07:36)
• Did not develop racial resentment: "No, I get past that." (09:11)
• Became resourceful and mechanically skilled (welding, engines), and had a natural sense for navigation.

Military Entry & Progression (13:27 - 25:20)

• Initially wanted to join the Air Force as a mechanic but was told he wasn’t qualified.
• Army recruiter skepticism: "They laughed at me... I had a mullet, skinny kid, they didn't believe in me, but I didn't care." (15:41)
• Selected the Army over the Marines due to a friend’s influence and signed up as an Airborne Ranger; family tradition of military service.
• Describes high daily failure, embracing the military game, and enjoying the trash talk of basic training.
• Advanced to Special Forces after five years in Rangers, motivated partly to avoid unappealing assignments.
• Special Forces selection is "very MacGyvery,” heavy on teamwork and improvisation, not always leadership: "I was on the worst team ever in selection." (23:14)

Rise to Delta Force & Combat Experience (25:20 - 61:19)

• Delta Force (“the black hole”): Didn’t really know what it was until trying out (hungover, after a friend gave him a sticky note: "Sometimes I do my best work hungover." - 26:24)
• Was in Delta at 9/11, training to skydive; called to action soon after.
• First combat was the Battle of Tora Bora in Afghanistan: "We were looking for bin Laden...10 of us, 10 days, to get everybody out of those mountains." (29:49)
  • Russians failed with 10,000 troops.
  • Attributed success to heavy bombing and Delta Force tactics.
  • Faced deeply violent reality: "We killed hundreds of people on the first day...War: let's go, people." (30:53)
  • No remorse: "You want to come to a gunfight and end up dead, it's your fault." (31:20)
  • Encountered mysterious “ceasefire” and felt bin Laden’s escape was partially staged or affected by U.S. interests: "If 10 guys kill bin Laden first 10 days, where’s the war on terror at?" (33:10)
• Skeptical about motives of military brass and war’s extension for political/financial gain.
• Involved in key missions, including the hunt for Saddam Hussein—often targeting anyone in his circle and describing unconventional tactics: staging street fights to lure out suspects (55:07).
• On Zarqawi and the height of the Iraq insurgency: "Those days were great because that's when the military finally let us take the gloves off." (59:35)
• Reflections on war: candid about casualties ("Did innocent people die? Sure...but this is war.") and personal enjoyment of his work.

Leadership, Brotherhood & Life Lessons (61:19 - 75:54)

• On military/civilian transition:
  • Brotherhood forged through "experiencing the best and worst of humanity at the same time." (62:18)
  • Bonds between soldiers are unique but not always universal; SEAL "drama" gets teased.
  • Manages survivor’s guilt/regret by accepting the limitations of his control: "Being angry wouldn’t get me a cup of coffee...I was having the time of my life." (37:46)
• Unfiltered views on U.S. strategic failures:
  • Afghanistan/Iraq: "It wasn’t worth it—anyone can see that. Not really worth it in a strategic sense, but I had the time of my life." (66:03)
  • Warns against getting "stuck in the last chapter”—urges fellow veterans and trauma survivors to keep moving forward.
• Discusses the challenge of civilian life, relationships, and raising a family post-military.
  • High military divorce rate: "Being married was like being in prison—you could call home, you ain’t going there anytime soon." (64:15)
  • Credits “adulting” and self-responsibility for his survival and adaptation.
• Current life: lives in North Carolina, teaches shooting/jiu jitsu, off-roads with friends, and distances himself from Pentagon/military bureaucracy.
  • “I teach people to shoot. It’s kind of the thing I’m really good at.” (73:35)
  • Jiu Jitsu as therapy and clarity: "Minutes where someone's actually choking the living sh*t out of me...it's a clarity of some type." (70:17)

Notable Quotes

• "Everybody learns, right? Everyone makes mistakes." (03:38)
• "You gotta want to choose good...No one has bad intent but gets up—shit gets up." (07:19)
• "If you want stuff, you got to do it yourself. It's called responsibility…I've been doing it for a long time." (18:26)
• "If 10 guys kill bin Laden first 10 days, where’s the war on terror at?" (33:10)
• "Why ask why? Hindsight's always clearer—at the time, I didn't question it. I was on to the next. War was my life." (37:53)
• "Why be ashamed of trying your best, no matter what that is?" (61:00)
• "Get out of that chapter [of trauma] and write a new one." (39:38)
• "I don't need thanks for my service. I did whatever I wanted. The cook kid getting mortared in Iraq—he needs the thanks." (66:03)

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Lt. Jason Redman: Overcome, Survive, Lead

(Segment: 78:26 - End)

Upbringing and SEAL Aspirations (78:26 - 91:04)

• Came from a family of military service; inspired by his dad and grandfather, both veterans.
• Obsessively determined to become a Navy SEAL despite being dismissed due to his size ("five foot nothing...about 95lbs").
  • Persistent visits to recruiter paid off after a new recruit supervisor arrived.
  • Joined Navy on September 11, 1992: "Say I can't... There's no better fuel for your fire." (82:28)
• Did not fit the "Hollywood" model of a SEAL, proving mental grit trumps size.
• Key to SEAL (and special operations) success: the "no quit gene" and the ability to process complex, chaotic environments and act decisively.

SEAL Training & Early Career (91:04 - 119:18)

• Describes BUDS as "unequivocally hard," with only about 25% graduating.
  • Stories from Hell Week: "Boat Crew One quit...They were the studs. Everyone is human." (112:30)
  • Hallucinations and sleep deprivation: "I was seeing fences, concrete walls, witches... Lack of sleep is amazing." (115:54)
• 9/11 hit during his career, making rapid transition from peacetime to a wartime military.
• Fueled by mistakes and setbacks: "I failed as a young leader," address in his book, The Trident.

Leadership Crisis & Redemption (119:18 - 134:56)

• As a young SEAL officer, found himself arrogant, inexperienced (even as a prior enlisted man), and focused on self-image over his team during a deployment to Afghanistan.
• Made a dangerous call on a mission that, while not fatal, destroyed his credibility with his men.
  • Shares moment of near-suicide: "I put a gun in my mouth... A voice said, 'What are you doing?'" (126:15)
  • A SOF chaplain helped shift his perspective: "Never forget, for every 'the end' moment in your mind, there becomes a new beginning."
• Commanding officer showed mercy, giving Redman a rare second chance.
• Redemption began at Army Ranger School, where he was further humbled:
  • Quit for first (and only) time after failing land navigation, then brought back after phone call from a mentor: "People will follow you if you give them a reason to." (129:54)
  • Learned humility and servant leadership, applying this upon return to the SEALs. "It was my lack of my own self leadership, selfish leadership that put me there and it really changed everything." (129:54)

Wounding and Recovery: The Fallujah Ambush (140:58 - 163:12)

• In 2007, as a SEAL troop second-in-command in Fallujah, led an assault on an al Qaeda target and walked into an expert ambush.
  • Multiple teammates severely wounded; Redman himself was shot multiple times: "Arm stitched by machine gun, then shot in the face, almost blew my whole face apart." (143:40)
  • Only survived due to the heroics of his teammates and an Air Force AC130 gunship.
• Medical evacuation and innumerable operations: "40 surgeries when it's all said and done." (160:13)
  • Immediate focus on recovery and return, treating each surgery as a new challenge: "Every time I’d wake up: 'When's the next one?'" (160:51)
• Shared signature sense of humor to reassure his wife Erica: "My wang’s okay." (158:29)

Legendary "Door Sign" and Mindset (163:12 - 171:54)

• Wrote the now-famous sign while still in the hospital:

  “Attention to all who enter here... If you’re coming in this room with sadness or sorrow, go elsewhere... I will make a full recovery... This room you’re about to enter is a room of fun, optimism, and intense rapid regrowth...” (163:12)

• Became a national touchstone, featured in books by Robert Gates and Michelle Obama.
• Serves as a reminder of the power of attitude, personal choice, and positive contagion: "Be the light in the darkness." (169:39)

Life After Service & Leadership Lessons (171:54 - End)

• Family as source of healing—his wife Erica’s patient, unconditional support (as “the Long Haired Admiral”) was crucial; nearly all relationships don’t survive catastrophic injury, but theirs became an inspiration.
• Advocates for strong self-leadership, eschewing the "victim mindset."
  • "You can't change the situation, but you can change your attitude."
  • "We need more leadership and more grit."
• Critiques military and society’s divisive, individualist trends: "In the military there's no room for individualism... it's all about the team." (102:11)
  • Decries identity-focused DEI in the military as antithetical to unity and effectiveness.
• On Afghanistan withdrawal: "One of the greatest failures... so many who sacrificed, we left behind our interpreters and friends. It's mind blowing."
• Today: Redman is a sought-after speaker and author (The Trident; Overcome).
  • Runs "Overcome and Survive" workshops with focus on leadership, resilience, and prepping civilians for adversity.
  • Upcoming book with his wife Erica about building "invincible marriages."

Notable Quotes

• "If someone tells me 'You can't do it,' I just have to prove them wrong." (82:28)
• "You have the power to drive forward and create change in your life." (99:09)
• "Never forget, for every 'the end' moment in your mind, there becomes a new beginning." (126:15)
• "Be the light in the darkness." (169:39)
• On recovery: "This is 'medical BUDS.' You don’t have to like it, but you have to do it." (160:51)
• On Afghanistan withdrawal: "I think it’s going to be viewed, in my opinion, as one of the greatest failures... we left a lot behind." (179:10)

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Timestamps - Key Segments

| Segment | Start | |---------------------------------------|---------| | John McPhee intro/background | 02:43 | | Chicago childhood, brothel, family | 04:18 | | Military entry, Air Force/Army | 13:27 | | Special Forces, Delta Force | 20:12 | | 9/11, Tora Bora, bin Laden | 27:21 | | Iraq, Saddam & Zarqawi hunts | 51:30 | | War reflections, PTSD, transitions | 61:00 | | Life after war, teaching, hobbies | 70:47 | | Leadership lessons/modern politics | 73:46 | | Jason Redman intro | 78:26 | | SEAL aspirations & BUDS | 80:00 | | Early leadership failure/redemption | 119:18 | | Ranger School, humility, mentorship | 129:54 | | Fallujah ambush and injury | 143:40 | | Iconic “sign on the door” | 163:12 | | Family and marriage | 171:54 | | Afghanistan withdrawal | 179:10 | | Present day & mission | 184:25 |

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Final Thoughts

This "Double Feature" is a deep-dive into the reality of American combat veterans: gritty, unsparing, and full of lessons for anyone facing hardship. Both McPhee and Redman urge a future-oriented, resilient mindset, and drive home lessons on responsibility, perspective, and the healing power of humor and camaraderie. Their stories—harrowing and inspiring—are a reminder of the costs of conflict and the redemptive possibilities of leadership and willpower.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Megyn Kelly]

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and today's double feature episode. To celebrate July 4th, two of our interviews on the show from the archives with American Heroes. First, my conversation with John McPhee, the sheriff of Baghdad. He is a true patriot badass. This guy is amazing. And then my lengthy sit down with the inspirational oh Jason Redmond. My God, if you're not inspired by Jason Redmond, I can't help you. I like, I can't like if he doesn't inspire you to be a better, tougher, greater person, no one will enjoy. Have a great rest of your weekend. God bless you and God bless America and we'll see you tomorrow. We are bringing you the story of a remarkable veteran. And what a story this vet has. Joining me today is retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee, aka the Sheriff of Baghdad. John served our country for over 20 years, specializing in various special mission units and combat experience across multiple theaters, including Afghanistan and Iraq, where he hunted both Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. John, great to have you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

How you doing?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Pretty good, Pretty good. Quite a lead up there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, my God, I mean, you've done a lot.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I've tried. I tried.

[Megyn Kelly]

When I say that when you hear that intro read, given all the time that you spent, you know, serving the country, what's the one that, like, you focus on? Like, that's the one thing that really kind of defined the surface in my mind,

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

man. Kind of none of that, I guess, you know what I mean? Like, later in the war, as leadership, like, that was a challenge, you know what I mean? Those, like the battle of Tora Bora, I was a new guy, like, let's go kill everybody. You know what I mean? And then the war rages on. You learn, you're more experienced. You just learn as it goes on. You're going to learn different lessons. Everybody's going to do this. And I think the lessons I learned as a young guy weren't the lessons I needed.

[Megyn Kelly]

Really.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Everybody learns, right? I thought everyone makes mistakes.

[Megyn Kelly]

When I read your bio, I thought the opposite because you had a very rough childhood.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And I thought it made him one tough sob, maybe.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And so they say, you know, capable of doing what needed to be done in, like, the darkest days of Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. And so I'm a reg. I tell. I tell everyone this. I'm a regular guy. I do everything everyone else does. I join the army. And I think when. When 9, 11 happened, I was too far in to like, choose a different life, you know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's start back at the young John, south side of Chicago.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Only white kid in the class.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. For a long time.

[Megyn Kelly]

How'd that happen?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. You get in fights. You go to Ding Dong. They call it Ding Dong School. That's where kids that fight all the time and you end up there.

[Megyn Kelly]

How did your parents settle in a neighborhood where you would wind up being the only one white kid?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

That's where we lived. Like, it's how Chicago. It's where we lived. You know what I mean? I would say the South Chicago of the 70s, 80s was like a. A different place.

[Megyn Kelly]

So I know that you were very badly bullied on the bus every day. Heard you telling our pal Sean Ryan about that. I mean, it was every day. They beat you up daily?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, no, until they got me a cab.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, it must have been bad for the south side of Chicago school system to get you a cab every day to school, I think.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Yeah, it cost. Well, it cost him a lot of money because the police would have to come to the bus on the side of the road. They'd have to break up the fight. And then the seats were broke, a window was broke, and then the school's got to pay for all of that. And then by the time we get to school, school will be over.

[Megyn Kelly]

How old were you?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. Sophomore. Freshman, maybe. Sophomore.

[Megyn Kelly]

So sad. I have a freshman, and the thought of that happening to him every day is upsetting. I mean, it's heartbreaking. Your parents never intervened. Did they know?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, they knew. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did they do anything?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

What are they gonna do?

[Megyn Kelly]

Get you out of there?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

That would have been a good idea. They probably never thought of that. That's a good idea.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what was the story? Were they just young? Substance abuse?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yes. No. I think my parents were young. I think my mom was. I don't know, maybe always kind of. Maybe just bitter as a lady, you know what I mean? She was, like, the, like, mean divorced lady most of the time. And, like, I just think that's how people thought their lives should be. I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Siblings?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, I have a brother.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is he older or younger?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Older.

[Megyn Kelly]

So did he go through this, too?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, but he's just a little older than me.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, but I just can't imagine, like, a mother allowing this to just keep happening to her child.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, well, here I am. You know what I mean? What are you gonna do?

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you, like, maintain? I know you wound up living in a brothel, which is another interesting story, but did you. Do you keep contact with your mom? Like.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

She's still around.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, she died. I don't know, a while ago.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Did you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Were you close?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean. Yeah. As close as you could kind of be with someone that, you know is always, like, mean, bitter.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

What happened in her life that left her there?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. I don't got the energy to, like, hang on to that much. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Good.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So, no, we always joke. My husband's brother, they're Presbyterian, and he always jokes. When you're. When you're thinking about something like that, push it down. Push it down.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's not wrong.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, on something, you got to let it go.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Like, letting it go is the better way. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

But the beatings, that would be tough to let go. I mean, I just feel like. Did that create any resentment in you?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. Yes. I mean, of course it did. It did. It didn't. I mean, look, I look at it this way. I turned out the way I turned out, and I think anybody in. In the situations I was in would come out the same way. And then you have to realize, like, you gotta want to choose good. You know, it's easy for people to be bad. And I say this all the time. No one has bad intent but gets up. Oh, but can I say that?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, you can. Yeah. I wouldn't have had you on if you couldn't say that word. That's your favorite word.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, I know, right? I'm trying to be nice, but shit gets up. So, you know, I don't think my parents have bad intent. I don't think there were bad people. I think they were young. I think they drank. You know, anytime you drink, like, you know, I used to drink a ton, but anytime you drink, like, you know, of course there's going to be drama. That's takes your filters away. You know what I mean? Like, it's probably a better way to deal with than telling someone just, you know, so I think it's just like a product of being young. I don't think anyone had a bad intent. I just think it. It is what it is. And. And I tell you, it's pro. It's generational. I mean, I'm not the only one. You know what I mean? But I would say it's generational. And I'd say there's kids in the same neighborhoods living about the same life, and their parents were probably in school with me. You know what I mean? Like, and I think that's just how it works. It's like a cycle.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does it create, like a resentment toward black people if. No, I don't resent any beating you up every day.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, I get past that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, I could see how that would

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

cause some eyes the easy target. Like, you know, later in school, I didn't get beat up every day because I. I realized I learned to fight, I could protect myself. And like, a lot of the actual gang leaders in that, like, they respected that. And so I didn't really have. I had to earn my way in, I guess. But once I earned my way in, it was fairly easy for me. I mean, and I look at it this way, is like, you know, look, you could be the victim. Okay, great. What's next?

[Megyn Kelly]

What's that going to do you?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

How long are you going to do that for? You know what I'm saying?

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm guessing that given the Way you describe the school system, there you were not on the college track. And you knew that?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you know you're gonna wind up in the armed forces, though? Was that a goal?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know, I knew I wanted to join. I kind of joined late. I was almost 21, but I wanted to join, but I didn't know, like, when. You know what I mean? And then one day I was just like, it. Let's go.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, we'll get to that. But I gotta spend a minute on the brothel. Since I mentioned it, how does. How did two guys, two kids, wind up living?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, I don't know. You know, they say hookers have a heart of gold. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Is that what happened? A hooker took you in?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Yeah. And we weren't the only kids, you know what I mean? But, yeah, weren't no.

[Megyn Kelly]

Who else was in there, how many

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

she had kids and, like. So me and my brother helped raise other kids, stuff like that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, what happened to your parents?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Me and my brother decided we would be better on our own.

[Megyn Kelly]

How old were you here?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know, 12, 13, maybe. Pre high school.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you went back with your parents by 15 when the. The bus situation was happening?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, I went to school myself.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, walk me through it. So you're growing up, you're with your parents until around 12, and then you wind up living at a brothel?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Me and my brother.

[Megyn Kelly]

How'd you get connected with this woman running the brothel?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, I was living with my. I guess, my stepmom. Anyway. It's a mess, you know, but I was living with my stepmom, and then me and my brother just moved over there. And they were nicer to me than anyone else I knew. You know what I mean? So.

[Megyn Kelly]

And was that you were there for the duration until you hit 18?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, I was only there for a little bit. Let's see what else happened? I don't know. I didn't live there that long. Like, just, I don't know, high school, some. Most of my high school years, but that was it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So now you got to find a direction once you hit 18, right. You gotta do something.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, I always worked. I've been working since I was a little kid. I was a welder. I worked on trucks. So that's another thing I did, is I always showed up to work on time, put myself to work, like earned money.

[Megyn Kelly]

You had a couple of skills that are completely foreign to me, like being good with an engine and being a good navigator. Yeah, I don't I think you're born with that. You're not born with that. Am I wrong?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. Maybe.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you always have that ability, that sense of navigation because you, like, you really needed it? It would become very important to you. It would in your military.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I am very good at navigation. I don't know. I guess you're born with it, because I would have never thought. And I've never not been good at it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Have you? Have you. Do you get lost a lot?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Never.

[Megyn Kelly]

I've always lost. You don't understand when you don't have this gift. It's so frustrating. I'm at the point when I drive, whatever my instinct is, I know to do the opposite. Like a George Costanza situation. Like, I just know. Do not. Whatever my instincts are telling me it's wrong when it comes to directions, I'm missing this chip.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You could get a GPS.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I do. Thankfully, I live in 2025.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Nowadays, like, I could get lost nowadays. I'd say that only because, like, I just listened to the lady on my phone. Turn left. Okay. Yes, so. But no, I have a pretty good sense of direction. Maybe it's natural. I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what, during these formative years, before we go off and join the military, are you. Do you dating. Is there a special woman in your life?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, not really.

[Megyn Kelly]

Nobody? No. Like, you hadn't been in love yet?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, no. I pretty much avoided people most of my childhood. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Did anything happen in the brothel that would deflower you or.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No comment.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

All right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just saying. Seems like an obvious thing to do. Okay. So you originally wanted to join the Air Force? Why?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, well, I was a mechanic. Right. Very mechanically inclined. I was a welder as well. I fixed a lot of semi trucks, broken frames, dump trucks, whole wall collapse stuff. And it take me, like, weeks to rebuild these trucks. But it's kind of what I did. And then. And then, yeah, I figured I could do this for the Air Force, you know what I mean? And then the biggest thing was, like, my hands were, like, always black. Like, cracked fingers. Like, you're always welding. It's always dirty, greasy, dirty stuff working on these trucks, right? And, like, honestly, my thought was no girl is ever gonna let me put my hand in her pants if she sees my hand, you know what I mean? There's just. It's not happening. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Does that stuff not come off with the right soap?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't care how much soap you got. Like, when you work, like that, like, your hands are black. So, yeah, so I figured I got to do something else, you know what I mean? Like, I. I just can't do this forever, you know? Only because I was always dirty every day. And you couldn't. You couldn't, like, not be dirty. Like, even your days off, you couldn't wash and you weren't clean. You know what I mean? So I figured, well, maybe now's the time to join the Army.

[Megyn Kelly]

And so what happened at the Air Force?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

They said I didn't have high enough skills to be a mechanic, which I was. They told me I could be admin. And I'm like, okay, what's that? Maybe I'll do this. What's the admin? And he was like, well, you type memos, maybe process awards. And I was like, my mom's a secretary. Like, that's what that sounds like. I'm out, you know?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Talk about misjudging a man.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. And they're like, son, have you talked to the Marines of the army yet? And I'm like, no, I didn't even think of it, you know? So I went to the Army.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why the Army?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, a buddy of mine was an airborne Ranger and said how great it was, so I just went down there and told him I wanted to be an airborne Ranger.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did they give you a hard time?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

They did, too.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, yeah?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Everybody's giving you a hard time.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, yeah. Well, I had like a. So first off, I had a mullet. Like, okay, but who didn't have a mullet? You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

What year are we in now?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

We gotta be like, 90s, 80. No. 90. 89. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're my age, I think.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, yeah. So I had a mullet, and they're like, you know, guys like, yo, Bob, hey, this guy wants to be a Ranger. And they come out and they, like, laughed at me.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, don't they shave your head anyway? What do they care what your hair looks like?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. But, yeah, I was just like this skinny mullet head kid, you know? And they didn't believe in me, but I didn't care, you know?

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. You might have been used to that feeling.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, yeah, I figured. I figured. Well, Bob was a fat bald guy anyway. Like, you know, Bob, you're not impressive. And the guy I was talking to seemed like a dullard. So it's not like these guys impressed me. I just knew there was more to the army, you know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

So this is all before 9 11, you know. You're. You're signing up, but you don't know exactly what you're signing up for. I assume it's just I want to be part of the military.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. I had no idea. I didn't know if I was doing, like, in my day, it was like, you sign up for the college money, you know what I mean? Like, people did. I didn't know why I signed up, and I definitely didn't think I needed college money whatsoever. You know what I mean? But, yeah, I joined all my family, you know. Turned out it's like a family business. My grandpa was both. My grandpa's, my great grandpa, World War II. Like, so it turned out a lot of people in my family were in the service and, like, no one really talked about it. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

That's pretty cool.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you escalated up the ranks, it seems to me, pretty quickly. You, like, you got moved from thing to thing, challenge to challenge, some of which were a surprise to you, but didn't sound like you had a lot of failures as you were making your name tons.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You did daily. Daily failure. Oh, yeah. They fail quick. Let's get it over with. Maybe we'll get it right by the end of the day.

[Megyn Kelly]

How did you do in, like, the military setting? Because I would think with your background, you weren't exactly big on rules.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't like rules.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. So how'd you. I mean, that. That's got to be a problem in basic training.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Not really. I mean, it's a game, you know what I mean? And their trash talk was great, man. Basic training, like, you enjoyed that? Oh, God. They would, like, yell people and like, I just be. I'd be like, not even getting yelled at, and I'd start laughing and they just be like, my drill sergeant called me Mafy. And he'd be like, mafy, do push ups. And I just start doing push ups because he'd hear me laughing. Like, oh, man, the trash talk was great. Like, I loved it.

[Megyn Kelly]

You were born for that. Little did they know, maybe impossible to upset you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, well, they couldn't upset me.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. I feel like at this point in life, is it hard to upset you? You've been through so much military wise and childhood wise.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, you know, like, we gotta. Look, if you want stuff, you got to do it yourself. It's called responsibility. It doesn't matter your age. I call it adulting. I hate it. But I've been doing it for a long time. So if you want something, you Got to put in the work.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does anybody irritate you? Like, do you get irritated?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you're not beyond everybody. You know what I mean? Like, do you like everybody?

[Megyn Kelly]

No. No. It's such a long list of people I dislike.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

See, there you go.

[Megyn Kelly]

But I cover politics for a living, so it's.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Your list is longer than mine.

[Megyn Kelly]

Very long. Okay, so let's go back. So then you meander over to the army, they take you. You're going through basic training, people are getting yelled at, and you're enjoying that.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And what's the plan? Just, like, see what they do with you?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, yeah. Well, I had a Ranger contract, so I go through basic training, airborne school, and then I go to rip.

[Megyn Kelly]

Explain what Ranger is.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

The Ranger regiment is. It's its own unit in the army, their infantry, basically. And nowadays they're a tier one unit. Back in my day, they were just like, specialized infantry or whatever they called them. Right. But yeah, the Ranger regiment is a way of life. And then back in my day was RIP is what they called it. And, like, basic training was a joke. We jog in the morning and sing songs. It's like summer camp, you know, in rip, like, some random looking dude just takes off faster than you've ever seen another human being running. You're just like, holy. Like, these guys do this. Let's go. Yeah, real talk, you know? And then, like, the whole time, like, I mean, I didn't know if I was going to make it or not. I was just doing my best.

[Megyn Kelly]

How long is the training?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It was three weeks back then.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. But it's intense.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, back then it was. Yeah. And back then, it was more about creating guys that won't quit than it was like training you at your actual job.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now from there, you joined Special Forces. How long? Yeah, did that take?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I did five years in Ranger battalion. And then, like, the. The sergeant major at the time was, like, sending people to, like, Korea or some random army that I wanted nothing to do with.

[Megyn Kelly]

What did you want?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And not that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like that.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Not that. You know what I mean? Didn't. Never wanted to go to Korea. I heard it's cold and, like. Anyway, never wanted to go there. Sorry, no offense.

[Megyn Kelly]

Where were you in the States? Here?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I was in Savannah, Georgia.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

See what I'm saying?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I hear you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So especially when you grow up in Chicago, right? Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

For once.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

So love Savannah. Right. And I didn't want to go anywhere, so I figured I'd hit Special Forces selection At least it would, like, give me a path where I might control my ending.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can you talk about that? Because as a civilian, you hear Special Forces and you think, oh, that's cool. Something cool is happening. Like, he knows, like he's done stuff.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

What. What did it mean to you?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, I don't know. I mean, like, it's okay. I like Special Forces.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why do it like when you were back? Arranged?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, like the lure. I don't know. Like the John Wayne when I was a kid. Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Badass.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, like Rambo. Right? Like, that's what I thought. Kind of in the middle 90s. Not really what was happening, but later on it got better. More towards a gwad. Everything got better.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you mean? You thought it would put you in charge of your own?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, if I went to Special Forces Selection, I know I would go there next versus, like coming down on orders for Korea one day. You know what I mean? Just like, hey, guess what? Came some paperwork for you. Korea? Holy no way. Right. Yeah, so I wanted to like, avoid that.

[Megyn Kelly]

So how do you get into Special Forces?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You gotta go to selection. They got a selection.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like it's like a tryout.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, try out.

[Megyn Kelly]

What does selection mean?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It's a lot of stupid, you know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, is it one day you show up.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, no, it's like a run. No. Okay. Special Forces selection kind of works like this. It's based off a team and you got to work in a team, right? And it's 12 guys in a. In a. A team. A Special Forces. A team. Right? And then so you're kind of grouped in 12 guys. Like you do like random stuff. Like you got to build these. They'll give you like one wheel, some pipe, and a 500 pound barrel. And it's like, it's. You got to take it 20 miles that way. Go.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's very MacGyvery.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Very MacGyvery. Right?

[Megyn Kelly]

And then you're the right background for this too, though.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, but I. You're not in charge every day. And then if someone bad's in charge and they talk about they do stupid, you're stuck doing their stupid all day long. I was on the worst team ever, I think, in selection.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, no. Some of those guys might be listening. Listen to this right now.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't care. They were. You know what I mean? Like, I do not give a. You know what I mean? It's probably where that. Why they are where they are now. You know what I mean? They were bringing you down, trying to hold me back.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you, you made it though. You got select. So you get selected to then train into special forces.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yep. And then they call it the Q course.

[Megyn Kelly]

And is it.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

What's that like the qualification? A lot of. I was an engineer, so that's the explosives, but we do a lot of other stuff, like building stuff like basically you're a general for like houses, they teach you that stuff. And then.

[Megyn Kelly]

Useful.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, super useful. Right. And then explosives and a lot of explosive stuff.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

So, yeah, the mid-90s, Special Forces, you know, the Bill Clinton army kind of sucked. No ammo, no training, no money, right? So a buddy of mine, I was at his house, I don't know, I was on leave, we were drinking, smoking cigars and he just gave me a yellow sticky with a time and place. So I was like, what's this? And it was like this field on post. So he's like, yeah, you're gonna be there at 6 in the morning. It's like, it's like midnight, man. No way. I ain't going nowhere at six in the morning, right? I went and he talked me into going. He was a Mogadishu guy and I went and that's it? I passed, yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So that was you in Special Forces trying to make it on the Delta Force, which is yet another sort of next elite level.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

But in my day you didn't know what Delta Force was like if someone went there is a black hole. You just never seen them again. You didn't even know they were alive. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

So why'd you do it? Why'd you even show up at 6am?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

What else was I gonna do? Sometimes I do my best work hungover. What's up?

[Megyn Kelly]

How was the, how hard was the tryout or the.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh. So first off, it ain't easy, I'm gonna say that. But at the same time it's great, man. They leave you alone, you walk through the mountains like, yeah, yeah, I'm here. You gotta go like, I don't know, like you have maps? You ever see like the big forest?

[Megyn Kelly]

Already sweating this. It's making me nervous.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I know it's probably the worst thing you want to hear.

[Megyn Kelly]

I would never make it.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

But like you'd have maps and they're like this big. And like the guy would give you a point and you'd be like, wait, wait. And you're like, yeah, like five of these. And you're like, I gotta go like three of these maps today, man. You know what I mean? And then. Yeah, and then you just go. And then this.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, maybe they knew even before Bin Laden knew where you were gonna wind up. But that was perfect training for what ultimately would be asked of you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, 100 I was ready.

[Megyn Kelly]

Were you in Delta Force when 911 happened?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so you're doing your training, what still down in Savannah?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I was at Brack, Fort Bragg.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And then, well, 911 I was trying to skydive to go to Freefall Jump Master school. Teach people to skydive.

[Megyn Kelly]

Of course you were.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

That's what I do.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what happened on 9 11? Were you, what was your reaction to that day?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, the first plane, I was like, like it looked like a little plane crashed in. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

We didn't know.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Some drunken idiot in his. In his little plane crashed in. Right. And then the second was like, oh, and then. And we were grounded. And that was it, you know, then you knew it was like something bad,

[Megyn Kelly]

serious, you know, you knew. But unlike the rest of us, you actually were gonna have to answer the call. I mean, does that, is that exciting? Is it nerve wracking? Is it everything?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It's a lot of things, but I would say this is us too far in not to Go. You know what I mean? As excited, as nervous, you know, like, the whole. I say this all the time. People are going to have a thousands emotions today, right? Like, it's just how people work. You'll have a thousand emotions. Don't let it stop on the bad ones. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

I know what you mean, but it's harder to do than actually, you know, it sounds maybe.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know, you know, people get stuck.

[Megyn Kelly]

They get stuck in sort of obsessive thinking, especially if their life might be on the line.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, people get stuck.

[Megyn Kelly]

So how do you rejigger that if that's you and you get stuck on something?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Smack them in the back of the head. Sometimes you need that, you know what I mean? Sometimes I need that, you know what I mean? Snap them out of it.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what. What. What was the first word you had that you were getting deployed and to where?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, there's a lot of things happening between 9, 11, and before we deployed. I think the original plan is we were supposed to save some hostages in Kabul, and then we ended up doing the Tora Bora thing. So what we trained for and what happened were completely different animals, you know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you know why?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

That's the way that cookie crumbles, you know what I mean? Like, follow what they just go. You know what I mean? You're not in charge. Someone else is making the calls. You just got to do your best when the time comes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Was Tora Bora then, the first place you went?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Tora Bora.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, can tell us about that. Tell us. What was that? How did that just describe you? Because I've heard you talk about John, right? It sounds, I mean, like you were looking for bin Laden.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, so, yeah, we were looking for bin Laden. The Tora Bora was like a stronghold for bin Laden, Al Qaeda, whatever they call themselves, right? And the Russians could never get in there. Right. And I think somebody. I don't know who said it, but it was 10. It took 10 of us 10 days.

[Megyn Kelly]

To do what?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

To get everybody out of those mountains. Either kill them or have them come out and surrender. But it took 10 of us 10 days. The Russians never took it. They had 10,000 soldiers, you know, so

[Megyn Kelly]

how we do that?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

We bombed the shit out of those guys, you know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Mm. Thanks to all your explosives training.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, it was more like Air Force stuff. You know what I mean? Unfortunately not. My. I mean, if I had to blow them up one at a time, like, that would be awesome. But we bombed them, so it was more of an Air Force thing. We had a call on the radio for bomb.

[Megyn Kelly]

Was that that deployment, that, that moment when you showed up in Torah Bora the first time you ever killed a man?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, yeah. War. Like, let's go people, man. We killed hundreds of people on the first day. Like, I can't tell you how many people died, or, you know what I mean? They're just everywhere, side of the mountains, like. And then sometimes guys get blown up, there's only pieces, you know what I mean? And, and they'd just be on the side of the mountain, like, what do you do?

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, well, how does that, does that affect you at all as a, you know, as a man? Or is it just. No, I'm a soldier.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, you know, you come, you, I'll tell you this, you want to come to a gunfight and you end up dead, it's your fault. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

They started it.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, and it's the Delta Force. You're gonna die. Like, it's not gonna be a good look for you. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I just felt like all those guys needed to die. Like they're evil, you know what I mean? Like, it's evil to just like, like, you know, Afghanistan in generals. It's like biblical times with trucks and cell phones like they do up. You know what I mean? So these. I don't. There's no doubt in my mind that these guys needed to die, you know?

[Megyn Kelly]

Were they connected to bin Laden?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. All his, like, inner guys, you know what I mean? Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So in 10 days, you managed to route out this, this mountain area that nobody else had gotten to, the Russians included. And then what?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, bin Laden wrote a death letter. He wrote a death letter. It's on the Internet, but he wrote a letter. He thought he was going to die.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is this the one where he was. This is a different letter from the one that the morons were circulating on TikTok about a year and a half ago, saying, this is amazing. He's so smart. He's got such good reasons for attacking us. That happened.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

You really wouldn't. You should. I don't stay on the Internet and you should not. I do know, Gen Z, I don't think you'll be happy.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't do any social media.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, so what happened? Because you, you didn't find bin Laden there, but you found all of his henchmen?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

You killed him.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And then Are you, like, done? Because bin Laden's still out there.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

A ceasefire. A ceasefire. And someone called a ceasefire. And I would also say there's a couple helicopters flew over the battlefield, which I still to this day don't know who they were.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, you think he was escaping?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I look at it this way, if. If the first 10 days of the war, 10 guys kill bin Laden, where's the war on terror at?

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, this is interesting.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

The checkbook would have never got opened.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, that's really interesting.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

That's what I think.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you're pretty cynical about our military industrial complex.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I wouldn't say cynical. Like, I mean, I enjoyed my time. I love grenades, you know what I mean? But I do think, like, the rug was pulled out from under us.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I mean, it definitely was at the end, but. Are you talking about right here, right now, when you're trying to. You don't think that the military brass wanted you to find him? They wanted it to go on and on?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, I think someone else intervened and put him in hiding. Someone who owned helicopters. Regular people own helicopters. Who owns helicopters? You know what I mean? And then how come I've never heard about this anywhere else?

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know. No one wants to talk about this.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I know, right? See what I'm saying?

[Megyn Kelly]

But I mean, are you talking about, like I say, the military industrial complex, like one of these big contractors? Are you talking about us? Us? Us.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. I mean, you can make your own guesses, you know what I'm saying? But I would say this is like, okay, where's the story between where he lived in Pakistan and Tora Bora? Where's that story? Also, by the way, I want to know that story.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do we know?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I have no. I have no idea. Yeah. You ever heard anything?

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

We need this. Like these JFK files. Let's go. Well, you know what I mean.

[Megyn Kelly]

You actually have a shot at it right now with this administration.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, there you go. You talk. You know these guys.

[Megyn Kelly]

I got a friend over at the Pentagon.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

There you go.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, we can get to the bottom of that.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

There you go.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, that's. I mean, unfortunately and totally understandably, so many of our veterans are asking these questions now, including Sean. You know, I talked to him at length about his questions about who are the good guys and.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, we're not. I don't think we are.

[Megyn Kelly]

You don't?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't think we're good friends.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I think we deal on a short timeline, a four year timeline, and I think everyone Else has like been in charge for 50 years, you know what I mean? And they've seen us flip flop back and forth and we pull, we push, we tug a war with the rope. It never ends out good, we're not good friends. And then as soon as you don't do what you we want, we're, we're gonna chuck you under the bus and move the on, you know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Give me an example.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know tons of stuff, you know what I mean? I'm giving you example right now. Where these helicopters at? Where's the story of Bin Lad until from Abbottabad where that's where the officers are trained in Pakistan. Interesting. Right. And how did he get out of Afghanistan? He's on dialysis. You mean this Guy walked over 14,000 foot mountains in the snow with his little woolen blanket and his dialysis machine but left all his people behind, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, but I, I think there's, I think George Bush said debtor alive and I think the Pentagon was risk adverse and, and I think that's where the disconnect was at that time. But I think someone else stepped in and took Bin Laden into hiding.

[Megyn Kelly]

And when we found him in 2010, trying to remember my exact time, it was 20, I think 11. I was on maternity leave with my,

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

it was an election year.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you think that was by design?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, yeah, they were.

[Megyn Kelly]

He was more useful. He was more useful dead.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Obama need to get reelected, it's time

[Megyn Kelly]

and so allow surprise allowed him to be killed.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So is that just your gut having been in the army for 20 years or.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Hell yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean that's like, that's the worst possible like take on our commander in chief and what they might do, like in danger, continue a war where guys are getting killed, their limbs blown off. What to improve your so you can get the election under your belt. It's just so the way it works. Oh my gosh, it's so horrible to even consider.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean that's the way it works.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, if I had been over there and seen my guys blown up, I think I'd be very angry if, if, if I believe this, I'd be very pissed off. Are you angry?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, believing this, I mean being angry wouldn't get me a cup of coffee, you know what I'm saying?

[Megyn Kelly]

I know, but either you feel it or you don't.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

If you, you know, I look at it this way. I had a great time. I did everything I could. I did as much as I could. Every time I could. And I always try to do the right thing at the same time. Like I can't control everything. You know what I mean? And then. Does it make me mad? Sure do. I hate that. Like, you know, that the politicians disagree on something and it costs your son his life. Right? Like, ridiculous, right? But at the same time, like, I was having the time of my life, so I wasn't questioning. You know, anytime you drink from the bottle of hindsight, everything gets clearer. You know what I mean? But at the time, I didn't question it. I just wanna. I was on to the next. Like, war was my life, you know? And I was good at it. And I saved lives. I saved a ton of lives in war. All those things combined kept me back, coming back to it. Whether it's right, wrong, indifferent. Like these are things that I can't control. So why even dwell on it? You know what I mean? It's. It's almost. It's an indifference. You'll get stuck in there. It's muddy water. You'll get styes, quicksand. You'll sink in it. Like, why this? Why that? Like, why ask why?

[Megyn Kelly]

You haven't been through therapy. This is just your own thinking.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't go to therapy.

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I assume you know a therapist like I do.

[Megyn Kelly]

I actually know a really good one, but I don't think you need him. I don't think you got your head on your. On your shoulders.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I try.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's life therapy right there. I don't know, it's. Somehow you managed to get, like, a really clear view on all of this. But so many guys I've talked to, them come back.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Traumatized.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, I call it the. The last chapter. They're stuck in the last chapter. You know what I mean? Like, they can't get out of that chapter. And whether. But what really happens is, like, the story is not over. You know what I mean? I mean, I was under the age of 40 doing all that stuff. Well, I got a lot more. Lot years. Like, so your life never gets better. You're never gonna enjoy anything again. Like, get out of that chapter, right, and write a new chapter.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is it the. In part, like, the adrenaline rush that you miss? Like, it's tough to recreate that in civilian life.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, it's more than the adrenaline rush. You know what I mean? It's so much more. I mean, when you're really good at something, it's all you want to do. And when, you know, guys are really good at something, I could you could save lives by sending guys that are really, really good at this. You know what I mean? So I think it's just one of those things where it's. It's a calling, and it's not really your choice. You know what I mean? But at the same time, it's a choice you gotta make.

[Megyn Kelly]

When were you in Tora Bora?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. December of 90 or no. 01.

[Megyn Kelly]

And then you went back, right?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, I went back to Tora Bora. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

When did you go back?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

2. Just a few months later in 2002, I went back.

[Megyn Kelly]

And was that your, like, solo? How did you end up solo in Tora Bora?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Pretty easy. I needed Pop Tarts.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. I heard that you mentioned this on shop, right?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I'm getting Pop Tarts.

[Megyn Kelly]

So it. I need to clarify this. You wanted the Pop Tarts, and there's something else. What was the other thing? Beef jerky.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Beef jerky.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. You needed this, so you convinced them to send you on some mission back to, like, the chow hall to get the stuff.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I just told my boss, like, hey, we doing anything tonight? I'll schedule the helicopter and I'll go to the chow hall. I'll have their guy fill our truck.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. Then I got lost. What happened? Like, you. You never went back with the Pop Tarts and the beef jerky?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I did, weeks later.

[Megyn Kelly]

But it seemed like you got sucked into this unit that had the good food.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And then you were off to the race.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, it was where everyone was. It was where all the guys were. You know? I mean. Okay, first off, off the default, when they deploy, like, they have beef jerky, they have the defa. The default.

[Megyn Kelly]

What's that?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Delta Force.

[Megyn Kelly]

Delta Force the D. Oh, defo.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

The default diva.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm like, who was he?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

But anyway, like, you're the highest army unit. You have beef jerky, you have Pop Tarts, you have. You know what I mean? Like, stuff army guys, like, might see once a month we should be getting every day because.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, like, they're serving cappuccinos.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. And then, like, the food is really good because we have our own. Own cooks, and they care about what you eat. You know what I mean? So it's.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's good.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It's. It's. It's the army system, but it's within the army system, which makes it a little better. Right. So I was just gonna go get some Pop Tarts, and really, it's just a resupply run. So I drive my Toyota truck on a helicopter they fly me to Bagram. And then one of the commanders, the guy that wrote kill bin Laden, was like, hey, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm stealing popcorn.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right. I'm here for food.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. And he was like, you want to go on a mission? And I was like, yeah. I was like, well, you got to call my boss. And he's like, okay, I'll call him. And they did. And then I was like, what is it? You know what I mean? They're like, we want you to go out alone. And I'm like, this sounds risky. Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just happened. Like, you were just there getting the pop tarts. And they were like, you know, you're. You'd be good for this.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow. And you. This is what kind of you wanted to do anyway? Be on your own, make your own decisions?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, well, I didn't know if I wanted to, like, never thought about it before then, but it. It turns out. So, yeah, Something I do.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what was the mission? Why did you have to go out by yourself? Why couldn't you have?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, this goes back to the. The politics of it is the general at the time wouldn't let us to do it. To hit a target in Afghanistan, we needed u. S. Eyes on. Makes sense. So how do you get USIS on? You have to send out reconnaissance guys. And that's what I did. Right. And then. But you can't. No one can leave the wire.

[Megyn Kelly]

What's the wire?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

The perimeter, the base. You can't. So.

[Megyn Kelly]

So that's.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

So the general's like, no one can leave the base, but you gotta launch reconnaissance to get USIS on.

[Megyn Kelly]

Someone's gonna leave the base.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Someone's gonna have to leave the base.

[Megyn Kelly]

And that was you? Was there another guy or is it just you?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, the only reason they sent me is they. They. They kept me in because I was coming from one base to another and outstation to a major base. I was in transit. So they just kept me in transit. Weeks.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. You're like, who knows? We have no idea where John.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Basically, they had a lie about what I was doing to make.

[Megyn Kelly]

Really. On a search for that beef jerky.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, you're not giving up. No, the guys back in the original place were probably like, where the hell are the pop tarts?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

They were in my truck.

[Megyn Kelly]

So.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Okay, they get them later.

[Megyn Kelly]

So then how long is this solo mission through?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Back through tora bora just probably took me 10 days. Ish.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why are you going back there when we already blew up the people?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, the Last guy to supposedly help bin Laden out of the valley just came back from Pakistan with him and his sons.

[Megyn Kelly]

With bin Laden and his sons or with his own.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

His own sons.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Like supposedly during the Battle of Tora Bora because he lived near there. There was. He was the facilitator of getting people in and out of there there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so we wanted to kill him or we wanted to capture.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

We wanted to capture him because we thought maybe he brought bin Laden out of there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

So the last lead for bin Laden was this guy. Because we have everybody else, all his people, his bodyguard, his cook, is everybody.

[Megyn Kelly]

So do they tell you where you're going and then it's just up to you to get yourself there?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, do they show you that spot on the map and you're like, I gotta figure this out?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right. So they. They're like, we believe we know where he is.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now good luck to you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Go find him. And it.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

How?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Pretty simple. Like, he's. It's only one valley. Like, and there's only. You know what I mean? There's only. I had already been there. That's one of the things is.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

So I kind of knew the area, I knew the terrain. Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

And it's like the bad guys trying to kill you everywhere.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Everywhere. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

How do you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Get past them bad guys?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Like in checkpoints?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You act like a.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like an American, though, right? They knew you were an American?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

They thought you were one of them.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

What?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

How's that possible? You're as pasty as I am.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I have a big. Because of Russians. Raped people. People look like me in Afghanistan. Lots of them.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, wow. I didn't think of that.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you would act like a local and like a nutcase, and they'd let you walk right by all the time. What would acting like a nutcase look like?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, the. So like, this guy, the first time happened to me, this guy, like, jams his AK in my chest and it's like. Like I'm supposed to say something. And I just figured if I speak American right now, I'm dead. That's it. You know what I mean? So I figured, well, I'll act like a. And I figured, okay, how would a guy sound? First off, it'd be volume.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Right. So loud you don't even want to listen. And then it'd be mongoloid stuff. So I was just kind of like. And the guy's like, good, move along. Yeah, I got the movie.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you have your A.K.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did he know that?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, so he knew. Like, it's not unusual to be armed there, even if you're not.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Everybody.

[Megyn Kelly]

Everybody's okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, everyone's.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's incredible.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you find the destination, and did you get eyes on the guy?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Videotape, too.

[Megyn Kelly]

And that's. That was the mission. Not, don't take him out. Don't try to kidnap. Kidnap him. Just tell us if he, in fact, is there. So now you got the evidence. Was that a moment, like, when you saw him? You're like, holy. Did you know it was him, first of all, or we just could. Could be some rando.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, when I was. I was in a truck, I said, with a bunch of people. No one knows I'm American.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I had.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

As we drove by, I put my video camera under my arm and I video camera the house. And, like, dude was on the front porch, luckily.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you got a good shot of him?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

All of it? Yeah, all of it. Got everything I needed.

[Megyn Kelly]

Are you sure? Because I would imagine in the moment, I've been sort of. Not in this circumstance, but I've. Not long ago, did this undercover video of somebody, and I was like, I hope I got the shot. You don't know until you can go check it later. But this is a very important shot to get.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Dude was on the porch. It was perfect.

[Megyn Kelly]

You knew you had it.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Did you recognize him?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, I didn't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I didn't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

You found out later that you did, in fact, get the guy?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Correct.

[Megyn Kelly]

So then did we. We get him?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. And do you think it was instrumental in getting us to bin Laden? No, it wasn't. It was not, Madam CIA analyst whose name we still don't know was not using that particular information and figuring out where bin Laden was.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know what any of that means, but it did not help. He had no idea.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. All right. So what does that mean for you? Anything. Does that make you feel disappointed about it or, like.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, I always thought. Well, I thought at the time, like, a. They were gonna find out. He was, like, dead in a cave later. You know what I mean? I just figured we blew him the smithereens. It might be hard to find the parts, you know what I mean? So. And then I figured, one day the truth will come out. I kind of always knew that, so.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, when you heard about the raid and.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

You saw Barack Obama on television that night.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

What was your reaction?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I thought it was great.

[Megyn Kelly]

You did?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, I thought it was great. I mean, I mean, for whatever reason Obama had, I thought it was great. And then I can tell you this. If I was commander in chief, the minute I heard that, I'd be like, go smoke that fool now. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yep.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

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[Megyn Kelly]

The GLP1 pill you've been waiting for is now on row. Yep, it's finally here. With the same clinically proven ingredients ingredient now in a pill. And now on Roe. It's the first FDA approved GLP1 pill for weight loss at the lowest price available. That's one daily GLP1 pill. For big results now on Roe, go to Roe co. Listen to see if you qualify RX only, go to ro co safety for serious side effects and boxed warning associated with GLP1.s Rob O' Neal was our first Memorial Day in depth interview back in. When we launched the show, we didn't even have have a video yet. It was would have been Memorial Day of 2021 right after the show launched. And that story was just unbelievable just to hear it told firsthand. He's controversial now. Some people don't think he should have said it was him. Blah, blah, blah. What do you think, seals?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know what I mean? It's always drama with those guys. You know what I'm saying?

[Megyn Kelly]

I adore him. I really admire him so deeply. I. Yeah, I'm not buying into any of that drama. All right, so now it wasn't done. Like, you're not done. The war's still going on and then you wind up going to Iraq.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And I think that was like the. Yo, we're. They were gearing up. You know what I mean? We're. We're trying to do this. They were gearing up for Iraq.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, that's a nightmare. Like, when you look back on that one, what do you think?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Iraq? Yeah, I loved Iraq.

[Megyn Kelly]

What? No one says that.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Why?

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, you have their mind.

[Megyn Kelly]

You have an interesting take on it. And I love to hear your take on Saddam Hussein because. Oh, you're making some good points.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I hadn't considered Saddam, man. Like, we should have left him we should have killed his bastard sons and told him, play along or you're next. Yeah, them dudes needed to go, but

[Megyn Kelly]

he was kind of a fan of the Christians.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

He was. He was. His inner circle was all Christians. The people that touched his food, washed his butt. Like, all Christian, all inner circle. And it's because of the martyr thing. You know, if you're a Muslim, you kill yourself, you're a martyr, you go to heaven in. You know what I mean? As a Christian, you kill yourself, you go to hell. So he surrounded himself and put up with the Christians. That's why Iraq was actually pretty Western even back then, because he allowed Christians to have their own areas, do their own things. Right? And then, you know, ISIS allows none of that. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yep. And we had to mess with it. So did you. You did go on a mission where you. Dude, you got. You tried to get him. I. Tell me again what it was. It was like, the woman. His affair partner's husband.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Is. Yeah. We rolled up everybody that met Saddam. You know what I mean? And then we used to say, look, we're in the army, like, you know, in the. You know, our intelligence agencies, they give polygraphs and they determine their rating as sources. And, like, they'd be like, this is an unreliable source. You know what I'm saying? And we'd be like, I'm in the Army. I'm pulling every threat. Red, let's go. I don't care. And we go check it out anyway. Most of the time, they were wrong. Yeah, go.

[Megyn Kelly]

What a shock.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Go figure. But, yeah, Saddam had, like, a favorite sex lady. I never even heard of this.

[Megyn Kelly]

I heard you say in Sean rang you because she was not hot.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, like. Like, I don't know what they got going, but, like, who knows what she was doing when.

[Megyn Kelly]

Closed doors.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, there's no talent. She must have been a real pro. You know what I mean? That's all I could think.

[Megyn Kelly]

She probably had some boobs.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

She had to know something about. About something. But, like, you would think, like, I don't know, like, you just assumed she would be attractive. I don't know. I didn't know what to expect.

[Megyn Kelly]

Kind of would everyone pictures the affair partner as somebody who's very hot. The wife could maybe or maybe not.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

None of that happening here. I mean, maybe had some hot ones. I didn't see them.

[Megyn Kelly]

Had different taste. Maybe she had a routine. We have no idea.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

She obviously had something.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so. But it wasn't her you were looking for. It was. Was her husband, because she was married.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

We were. We couldn't get to her because it's hard to get to women in Iraq. So we had to get to the husband. See what I'm saying?

[Megyn Kelly]

And what. What information could we get from the husband?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. May. Maybe Saddam kind of, you know, was honey potted a little bit. He told his favorite honey pot. I don't know. Something, you know? And as a. As an army guy, not an intel guy, I'm like, let's go. Let's look into this.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'll do it.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. I don't care.

[Megyn Kelly]

And do we get him?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, we got him.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Did he know anything?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, they didn't know. You know what I mean? Like, they didn't know, but we did get them. And, yeah, it was okay. This is. This is kind of legendary, but I was across the street in a minivan, and I was kind of watching this shop. I had two Iraqi guys that I would use, and then. And I had the assault force kind of park on the corner close to the shop. And then enough time went by. We were just waiting and waiting. I told my guys to start fighting in front of the store if too much time went by. So they start a fist fight in front of the store. And then people come out like, what's going on out front of the store? And the dude came out and literally put his back to, like, the van door of the assault force. And I'm like, yo, open the door. It's that dude right there. And they grabbed him, and then it was over. And people were, like, looking for him. No one even knew he was.

[Megyn Kelly]

Everyone had been watching the fight. Wow.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And then later, my boss was like, man, we're so lucky that dude started the fight. I was like. I was like, that was our guys. I.

[Megyn Kelly]

What is lucky?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I'm trying to speed this up a little bit.

[Megyn Kelly]

Smart.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, yeah, it's hot in the back of the van, so you don't

[Megyn Kelly]

have to do the interrogation. Or you do.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I've done a lot of them.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. They don't always send in, like, the dark arts guys from the CIA to do that crap. Like, that's. That's us, too.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Those guys are chump change. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

They're gitmo only.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So how do you make a guy like that talk? And by the way, easy. How do you communicate with one another? You have a translator there?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, you got to have a terp people to speak the language, but yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you mean, easy? How is it easy.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Everybody talks about.

[Megyn Kelly]

They do.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, are you kidding me?

[Megyn Kelly]

You torture them?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

What do you do you don't got to do. It's easy. Yeah. Fear and common sense is a powerful tool, you know what I mean? Most of the time. Like what? Okay, think about this, okay? This is every human being. This me. This is you. Look, there's stuff that you're gonna die with that you ain't telling no one about. Everybody does that. Right. Does that make sense to you?

[Megyn Kelly]

I don't know. I'm kind of an open book. But, okay, yes, I am, too. True.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

There's secrets people keep to their grave. Right. That's basically what I'm saying. Right. And then there's other. Like, what's your cousin's car look like that you just ain't holding? It ain't worth, like, getting beat over. It ain't worth fighting over, like it's a little white car.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like, this is a small point of order, but. Did he know that the wife was having an affair with Saddam Hussein the entire time? He did.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

What do you do?

[Megyn Kelly]

Was he. Was he okay with that or just kind of curious? What the sex dynamic.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I would imagine he felt lucky to be alive every day.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right, Ape?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know what I'm saying?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. He'd be a very easy guy to get rid of. And then you could have the side piece whenever you wanted it. But I guess he could anyway. So what's the point of killing the husband?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

So he gave up whatever info. And did we find Saddam Hussein after that?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Shortly after that, yeah. We were. Look. We had to run all the. Look. Manhunting is like a sweater. When, like, you have a yarn on a sweater, you pull it. It Right. One of those threads is gonna. The arm's gonna come off one of those threads. You pull it out forever. It doesn't do nothing. You know what I mean? So we're gonna pull every thread.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is the process.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

So when you. Was that the biggest thing that you did while you were in Iraq? Would you say, like, the most.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

Serious thing.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

No.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

What.

[Megyn Kelly]

What else did you do?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Zarqawi was serious days.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God. That was dark. That was the dark stuff. You were over there with all the beheadings and all that. Oh, my God. Does it. I mean, does that scare you? You're only a man. You're a man.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, I don't know. I wasn't really scared, but I did get a sword off a Zarqawi truck that was like a Roman short Sword and, like, there's pictures of me. I got my shirt off. I'm like, I don't know if you've ever seen this, but I wanted to. I would have cut one of their heads off. You know what I mean? Like. But no, it didn't scare me. You know, Zarqawi was a bully, and he liked to pick on the weak. He didn't want to pick on us. You know what I mean? And then, you know. Yeah, the Zarqawi days were great. Foreign fighters was great. I mean, I don't know. I loved it all. But, like, the foreign fighters, like, you just show up in front of the house, have my guy get on the bullhorn, they'd start shooting. We'd level the house, you know? Like, those days were great. I mean, I think those days were great because that's when the military finally let us take the gloves off and be like, okay, you guys do this your way. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Year is this now? 067.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, Zark. How I was six. You know what I mean? But they'd finally start to let the gloves come off. You know, I think, like, I think we were. We were throttled a lot through a lot of stuff, but I feel like through the Zarqawi days, no one gave a. How we were getting it done. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

So how long were you over there? Or how many deployments do you have?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I think I got 10. And then, like, I got a bunch of, like, the surge and the stay lates and, like, went back and back.

[Megyn Kelly]

Back.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

10 deployments.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. And then as a SARM major, I. I spent a lot of time there, but it didn't really count as a deployment. I was back and forth.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, wow. So then what, like, how does it end for you? They just send you back home before the fight is done? Or did you fight all the way to the end of the.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, I was a ser major. I retired in 11.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're getting older.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

They don't let you serve forever. Really? Right.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, man, you're only young so long, you know? But I'll tell you what, with stem cell, could have stayed another 10 years if modern science was hitting.

[Megyn Kelly]

So interesting to talk to you and hear you talk about how fun it was, because it seems like the hell of war and the trauma that guys have, the ptsd. But there's something about, like, what is it? Is it working with your comrades in arms? Is it like, doing the thing that you've been told to do and you're really good at it, and you love that. Is it all, like, what is that? What is fun?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I mean, why be ashamed of trying your best no matter what that is? I think. Right. And I think that's really what it boils down to. I mean, yeah, I could be ashamed. Did a lot of people die? Yeah, a lot of people died.

[Megyn Kelly]

Would you be ashamed?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Some of the wrong people die? Sure. You know what I mean? Did innocent people die?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Sure.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

But, like, this is war, and essentially war is you kill the bad guy and break his. So we can't use that against you.

[Megyn Kelly]

You.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

If I was told to go do that, why am I the bad guy in this? I'm not. You know what I mean? I'm just doing my best on a daily basis, you know? And then at the end of the day, I always seen it as I'm in the army, I take orders. Let's go. And a lot of times, I like those orders. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

What was the. What was the brotherhood dynamic?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, man, you would think it's kind of interesting. You would think the brotherhood would have been strong, but, like, the war, like, builds bonds. You can't. You can't get anywhere else, I guess. You know what I mean? Like, you'd think, like, there's always a brotherhood, right? Well, we talk about the brotherhood, but we just joked about SEAL drama, you

[Megyn Kelly]

know what I'm saying?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

So, having said that, I think there's, like, guys that I'm, like, I was in combat with that we have a bond. I think there's certain people I have bonds with over different stuff, but I think that bond, the brotherhood is. Is just, you know, the experiencing the best and worst of humanity at the same time, you know?

[Megyn Kelly]

And when your life is on the line, it just adds, I don't know, so much more to it. I would think, like, you're risking it all together, and, yeah, any one of you might not be there the next night.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, I mean, I always say. Like, I. I always say, well, I said this to my guys, too, but I. We all gave Uncle Sam a blank check. Get ready. Don't be mad if it gets cashed, but don't be mad for somebody when their check is cash because they died doing what they loved. Can't be mad at that either.

[Megyn Kelly]

Were there any women in your unit?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Maybe me?

[Megyn Kelly]

You're not allowed to tell me.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can women be rangers?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know. That's a good question. I think so these days. I don't know. Like, I don't know how it works.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you ever have to deal with that dynamic out in the field, like, together?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just seems so weird to me. I don't know. I know nothing.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I think women have very niche roles and can have very niche roles. I've worked with women. I've had women partners. They were great, but I think there's a role for them and they're not like the one you send, you know, get Zarqawi. Right. There's other stuff they do. So. Yes, we have. We have. Women always had women, like, and it. Yeah. I mean, it's. I think there's more women on the planet than men. I don't know why this show.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I'm just. I'm curious about. I'm back to your dating life now. Like, can you meet a woman somehow? Or you're like, how do you fall in love? How do you like.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, man. I'll tell you, this is. I started out married at 9 11. I've been divorced several times. It's a hard life, you know, I don't think. I think it's a hard life because no one understands, like, your level of commitment. And I. I say that in a way, like you're choosing something that might cause your death over and over. People don't see that as rational, but they don't understand. You know what I mean? But so I would say. I always say this is like being married was like being in prison. You could call home and you ain't going there anytime soon. You know what I mean? That's just how it works.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you mean? I don't think I get it.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

That's how marriage works in the Army. Like when you deploy to war, you could call home. You get your one phone call home.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. Call home, like, once a week.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's not going to be together a whole lot.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. But you ain't come. You ain't going to know him.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know what I mean? And that's tough on anybody. I would. I would say this. Only guys that had perfect relationships, their marriages survive the war.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know what I mean? And I'd say the bulk of guys end up divorced.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do you have kids?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I do.

[Megyn Kelly]

How old are they?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I stopped keeping track when they turned over 21. Okay.

[Megyn Kelly]

How many kids do you have?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I have two.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Are they good?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, they're good. Good.

[Megyn Kelly]

They're good.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

They're good people.

[Megyn Kelly]

Are they going in the mill, into the military at all?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

My son was in the army and works for the army now.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. So when it all wi. When it ends, you know, Iraq eventually ends. Afghanistan ended disastrously. And recently.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is that a moment for reflection on what it meant, what role you played? Whether it was worth it, like, or no? Is it just. I'm a soldier. I did my job. Next chapter.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, it wasn't worth it. It. I mean, everyone can see that, right? It's not just me. I don't think it was worth it at all. I had a great time. I would say none of it was really worth it in a strategic sense, in a tactical sense. You know what I mean? Like, honestly. But the reality is. Is, like, man, I had the time of my life, and I. I would want anyone to know. Like, people. People like to thank me for my service, and it's like, I did whatever the fuck I wanted. I don't actually need any thanks. You know what a kid who was like, a cook getting mortared in wherever, in Iraq, nightly, that kid needs to be thanked. Like, I just. I was just doing what I do.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, how do you reconcile it with stories like, you know, Marcus Luttrell and what happened to him? And he's definitely got some lasting PTSD from that. It's been a rough ride back home.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah. I don't even get that. I was out alone all the time. Like. Like, I was out alone in Afghanistan. I don't get how, being the lone survivor, I just don't understand that story. Only because I was out alone all the time. It didn't happen to me. You know what I mean? Because of the decisions I make on the ground.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, you're not blaming him.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I'm not blaming him. I'm just saying it's so. That's so foreign to me. I don't even understand it, because I can tell you this. The Taliban could come after me. There'd be a whole lot of dead bodies for sure. And I'm just one.

[Megyn Kelly]

I believe that.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Imagine if there was two or three of me.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, that's one of the worst stories of the war. And what he went through is. It's awful. And I. It's not just him. You know, I was it last year. No, it's two years ago. We talked to Dakota Meyer. He's doing great now, but, you know, he came back. He won the. Was awarded the medal of Honor and wanted to kill himself. Like, he. There are tough, tough guys. Not. These are not weak men who. They. They don't process it the way you do. I think if you could somehow teach this, it would be extremely valuable. Right?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I could Teach anybody this.

[Megyn Kelly]

I. I feel like anybody could use this. People who have different traumas.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It would start by me locking you in a room and beating you first.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly. I. I might sign up for that

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

and then people would.

[Megyn Kelly]

Don't touch the money maker.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, of course, of course. No bruises, no marks. I'm a pro. Like, I. I've done a bunch of interrogation. I got this.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, like, is there some sort of toughen you up, John camp?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, there isn't.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, the shirt.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No.

[Megyn Kelly]

What does it read? Team S.O.B. yeah, I called you tough. S.O.B. same thing. So this is not something I can sign up for, so. Or I can go learn.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't have any classes like this. Maybe I should.

[Megyn Kelly]

You're missing an opportunity. Opportunity.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Leadership. Right. Leadership.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can it be taught?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I think so. I think so. Like most of my guys. If my guys killed somebody, I brought them all in a room. I made everyone have a drink. I made sure I told them they did exactly right. You know, this was expected of them. Right? Like, this is your job. Like, someone should thank you. And I think if all that happens on the spot, you're less likely to carry the guilt with you later. So. I believe a lot of this is. Was framed up poorly a long time ago.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And then I believe guys ride the hall pass for a long time. And I call the hall pass booze. But some people do drugs. Some people do. I don't know what people do, but for me, my hall pass was booze. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

And then still drink or. No, no more.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, I'm training for Worlds right now, so I am currently not drinking.

[Megyn Kelly]

Worlds in what?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Jiu Jitsu.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, wow. All you ex military guys do Jiu Jitsu? Why is that?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't know Jiu Jitsu. It's a hour of my day where I don't have to look at the phone. It's. Sometimes there's minutes where someone's actually like, choking the living out of me. And the stubborn side of me is like, I'm not giving it to them. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Isn't it involuntary?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No. No. What? No.

[Megyn Kelly]

When they choke you out.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No. Yeah. No.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's not involuntary. Okay. I gotta learn those moves.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

If you are. If you make me give it to you, I'll give it to you. Otherwise you could choke the out of me and I'll just ride it, you know? But when I'm in real survival mode, someone puts me in trouble. I gotta think about what's next, my leverage, my everything control. My breathing, my heart rate. I call that real survival mode. Like, that's. I'm. I'm so thankful for that. It's a. It's a clarity of some type. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Of it. Yes, I hear so.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It's like, you know how, like, people talk about runners high? Like, you know, I do cardio. It doesn't make me high ever. I've always hated it. But, like, Jiu Jitsu is. I don't know, sometimes when I'm in real survival, I don't got to think about my phone. I don't got to think about my life.

[Megyn Kelly]

Are you always going against somebody who knows what they're doing? Is it usually an instruction instructor or another, like, well, participant.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Because. Because I travel. I hit, I think, 28, 30 different DOJOs a year. I just walk in and why do

[Megyn Kelly]

you worry about, like, out matching somebody to the point where you're gonna hurt them and suit or.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I'm not gonna hurt anything.

[Megyn Kelly]

Cause permanent damage. No, I'm a recovering lawyer. This is how I think about these things.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, no, not at all. It's Jiu Jitsu. Like, look, this is hurting somebody.

[Megyn Kelly]

There's not. There's hurting somebody.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I'm not gonna. Well, yeah, but is it, like. Yeah, as you. Right. Like, this is the point of submission. If you thought I was going to hurt you, you could tap.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

So that's your escape button.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's like the. The safe gesture. Don't. Don't hurt me anymore, please.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I've had enough. Yeah, you just tap.

[Megyn Kelly]

So what are you doing now?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I'm training for Worlds. Oh. I teach people to shoot.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah, because you're a sniper.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I was.

[Megyn Kelly]

We didn't even get. We didn't even go over that.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

No, no, no. Yeah, yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

How many guns do you own?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Seriously? I couldn't count.

[Megyn Kelly]

More or less than JD Vance's mama had in her house when she.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't even know how many that is.

[Megyn Kelly]

I think it was 19.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, yeah. I don't want to admit to anything. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Where are you living?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I live in Raleigh, North Carolina.

[Megyn Kelly]

No where specifically. Give us the street address. No, I'm. I'm only kidding. I'm not kidding.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I live in.

[Megyn Kelly]

So you settled in the war? Warmth.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Well, I live near Fort Bragg still.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

And you. You work with them? And do you do anything?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I don't do anything at Fort Bragg. I try not to.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you do for fun? Like, how do you let your hair down?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I do jiu jitsu. I off road with my buddies. I got one of them side by side off road vehicles.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I do that because there's a guy who goes in the side one, put on a little white scarf and a little leather helmet.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

He'll get it muddy, you know what I mean? I wouldn't bring white on these trips, but, yeah, we. We normally off road in the Arizona mountains. Yearly. Yeah, we go to this place, Crown King, oldest bar. There's no dirt. It's all dirt roads, no pavement. Stay up there in cabins and it's kind of like, I don't know, we off road, we drive. I eat cheeseburgers and I drink whiskey and then.

[Megyn Kelly]

Sounds right on brand.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

I do that all weekend. I don't shower either. I don't even care. Let's go. We're four wheeling.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, so you shower. Just not on this particular trip.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, but I four wheel man. I. You know, and then I just. I love teaching people to shoot. It's kind of like the thing I'm really good at.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you think? I know you're not. You don't really watch the news. Do you follow politics at all? Like, what do you think of Trump? What do you think of Pete? Hexeth is the top guy at Pentagon.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Yeah, well, first off, talk to Pete. I need one of these Pentagon jobs. Tell me I shouldn't be. I wouldn't Will the Deputy of Special Operations.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is that what you would like?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Hell yeah. Let's go.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'll make a call.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, man. But look, I like Trump, I like Vance, I like Pete. I like what they're doing. And like, what can I say? Like, I think they make good inherent decisions, like for long term, which we're not really used to here, you know what I mean? But I think they're all good. I don't. I don't watch the news or nothing, but I think they're good so far. I think. I thought Trump made great policies last time. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

What? Have you seen enough of Pete to know what you like about him?

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, man, I got a ton of buddies that know Pete. Like, everybody loves Pete. You know what I mean? Like, that's all I needed to hear. And you know, like, the look, the Pentagon, we won a war lately. And you know, know these generals will be like, oh, well, he was just lower enlisted saying that. But like, yo, I watched you guys every day make up decisions. I try to tell you, and you'd be mad at me. You know what I mean? Like, not that I was always right, but, like, sometimes you're wrong also. And it's the. I think it's the hubris of the Pentagon that needs to be taken down a few notches, you know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And, like, anyway. Yeah. So. So I would happily serve this country and make everything better. You know what I mean?

[Megyn Kelly]

That's awesome. And we need. We need guys like you raising your hands.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Thanks.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I love that you came in to tell us your story. It's. You're such an interesting man. I love. I love everything about you. What a character you are.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

I hope we can find a way to get you back serving.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Let's go. Let's go. Let's call Pete. Pete, where you at?

[Megyn Kelly]

Let's call. Let's call DJT and see if he's got something for you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Call him right now. Get him on the line. I'm in.

[Megyn Kelly]

I. Whether you want to hear or not, thank you for your service.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

You're welcome.

[Megyn Kelly]

Thank you. Pleasure to meet you.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Oh, thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. All the best to you. Oh, didn't I tell you? He's unbelievable. What a guy. John McPhee. Thank you once again. You know, it's just incredible, the. The stuff that our troops go through and the different mindsets that they develop along the way. Right. It's our honor to talk to him. It's our honor to talk to all of our troops who have served in battle. And if you. If you're into what you heard today, you should go back and listen to the earlier Memorial Day shows that we've done since we launched. The first one was in 2021, and that was Rob O'. Neill. We've done Marcus Luttrell. We've done Dakota Meyer, recipient of the Medal of Honor. It's just these guys are. They're living life around us. They're kind of back to normal to the extent one can be with having these incredible backgrounds. So it's well worth our time to take a moment to learn from them and remember what they and our other troops groups have done for us while we've been sitting at home in our air conditioning. Right. So that's what today is all about, especially honoring the fallen. We do that here, thank them and their families for their service.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Nothing beats tradition like weekly game nights at Mom's house and Tostitos crafted with masa made the traditional way, starting with whole corn kernels with flavors worth gathering around, like a hint of light lime and Mexican street corn and no Artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives. That's the Tostitos way. Bring Tostitos to your next game night and you'll be winning either way. Tostitos tradition matters.

[Megyn Kelly]

The GLP1 pill you've been waiting for is now on row. Yep, it's finally here with the same clinically proven ingredient now in a pill. And now on Roe. It's the first FDA approved GLP1 pill for weight loss at the lowest price available. That's one daily GLP1 pill for big results now on ROE, go to ROE CO. Listen to see if you qualify RX only go to RO CO safety for serious side effects and boxed warning associated with GLP1s. We want to bring you the story of a remarkable veteran who stared death in the face and lived to share his incredible lessons on leadership, bravery, and how to overcome any obstacle, no matter how devastating it may feel in the moment. Lt. Jason C. Redmond joins us now. Jay, welcome to the show.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Megan, honored to be on. Happy Memorial Day, everyone.

[Megyn Kelly]

1 oh, gosh to you too. It's so great to talk to you and to see you again. Do you remember when we met?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Absolutely. Navy SEAL foundation dinner in New York many years ago when you were still working with Bill Hammer.

[Megyn Kelly]

Exactly right. And I never forgot you. I've talked about you to basically every Navy SEAL who's come on this show and talked about you with Leif Babin and his wife Jenna Lee and all these people. People. And just have been thinking about you because your story was so incredible. And back then it, it was still pretty close in time to when you first were injured. You know, that was what, like 2010?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I'm trying to think of the year 2007. So I think I was still active duty. I think I still was trying to get back operational when I went to that dinner because I didn't retire until 2013.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I remember that. And it was like just your whole story was so incredible. And of course, I've met so many people over the years and I've met a lot of vets, too, veterans in active duty. And honestly, I can count on one hand the number of people who really stand out to me where I'm like, you've got to hear this story. And you're one of them. So I'm truly honored to have you on here and to be having this discussion with you today. Great to see you.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Likewise. Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Ah, okay. So you grow up, up you from a very early age, I think it's fair to say. I mean, like, well, before you actually signed up for the Navy at age 17, had your eye, was it on the Navy in particular or just the military?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

It was both. The Navy kind of came about a little bit later. I mean, still young. I think it was about 15. I mean, from a very young age. I mean, my parents tell me when I was about three years old, I always just talked about service based and what I like to call in American society, protectors. And I was always interested in, you know, that protector mindset. When I was three years old, I wanted to be a firefighter. That as I got a little bit older. My grandfather was a decorated B24 pilot. You know, I had learned about him, married uncle along with my grandfather on both sides, served in World War II. My dad had been an army veteran serving during the Vietnam War and had been a, a paratrooper and jump master and rigger. And that's where he had encountered seals for the first time and started learning more about special operations. Started learning more. You know, I was kind of of the GI Joe era. So GI Joe was cool to me and definitely the, the special operations guys within the G.I. joe universe. And it was about the time when I was maybe be 14 that my dad said, hey, you should look into the Navy seals. Having spent some time in the Virgin Islands, I was pretty strong in the water. And he said, hey, these guys are tough. They're some of the best. He said, you know how to swim? He said, you're a little crazy. You should check them out. They'd be perfect for you. And he was right. I don't know what it was. And I'm not the, I'm not probably the likely candidate that most people would think of. You know, I think when people think of Navy SEALs, you know, they, they see a picture of Jocko and Jocko looks like he's chiseled out of granite, you know, and he is the Hollywood version of a steel. And I like to joke that I'm not. I was like five foot nothing, especially at that age. I was, I was probably, I don't even think I had hit five foot back then. I was probably £95 when I decided that's what I want to do. And everybody was like, there's no way you'll ever make it. And I don't know, that just created fuel to my fire. And I just said, this is what I'm gonna do and set my sights on it and started training and, you know, the rest. Obviously leading up to joining the Navy. When I was 17 on, amazingly enough, coincidentally September 11, 1992, is the day I joined the Navy when I was still a senior in high school.

[Megyn Kelly]

You are the guy who says, say I can't, say I can't. Like there's no better fuel for your fire than those, than, than those, than that message.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

It's a fact. And, you know, and that's a good thing. I've come to learn as I get older. There's a balance there. You know, you've got to balance reality with where we're at. Because when I was younger, man, that was the catalyst. I mean, I would do just about anything if you told me, hey, you can't do that. I mean, I just had to prove and I think some of that, who knows? Had to do. Maybe I had a, I was a smaller guy, so I felt like I had to prove that I was big enough or whatever to do it.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

But I tell you, back then, it was definitely a fuel that enabled me to, to make it through training and to overcome a lot of the impossible odds. As a matter of fact, I was told right from the very beginning when I went to the recruiting station in Lumberton, North Carolina, where I was living at the time, and I walked in that door, probably the first time, I might have been 15, probably, probably 15 and a half basically. And I walked in that door and I said, hey, I want to join the Navy and I want to be a seal. And boy, they took one look at me, this five foot nothing, you know, runs, and they were like, you'll never make it as a seal. And they basically the, the recruiter chased me out of the office. And of course that didn't deter me. I, I came back and he would chase me out again. And multiple times that happened. Funny story, I almost went and joined the army because I got frustrated that they wouldn't let me me, you know, that this guy wouldn't even give me the time of day. So I almost joined the army to become a Ranger. And I ended up failing the, the airborne physical because they said, oh, you can't equalize. Because I had ruptured my eardrum when I was a kid. And when I, and you know, thankfully my dad had been in the military, he said, well, why don't we go send you to a specialist? And they can. Because I knew I could equalize. I dove, I'd done all these things and sure enough, I went to a specialist. By the time that it all transpired, I tried and explained to everybody, you know, everything happens for a reason. And by the time this had transpired there was a new recruiter in the recruiting office in Lumberton, North Carolina, Henry Horn, who I got to link up with last year after all this time and thank him in person. But Henry Horn was the new recruiter and he said, hey, you want to be a CEO? Seal? Come on, man. And he helped me get into the Navy. He put me on the path to become a seal. And I got to give a lot of credit to Henry for that.

[Megyn Kelly]

He must be so proud of being that guy in your life and the life of the service, you know, industry in our, in our country. Can I ask you how so when you actually did sign up, because I understand you, you officially were allowed to join when you were 17, so what was your physical stature then? Because it's interesting to me, you always do think of these guys being bigger and you do picture like a jocko going in there and them being like, right this way, sir. Yes, duh. Of course, we belong together.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

So I, I probably hit somewhat of a growth spur and you know, my, my junior senior year, but I was, I was definitely not that big. I mean, even, even today, you know, I'm 58 and about 170 pounds. So I'm on the, the average seal. A lot of people don't know though the average SEAL is only about 5, 10 and 180 pounds. This, this Hollywood version of the Arnold Schwarzenegger type just is not necessarily the case. I mean, seals typically are lean muscled and, and you know, usually they'll have, you know, a larger upper body because they have strong muscular endurance strength from the, from the gear we have to carry and our ability to. Have to do a lot of activities with our body weight and gear. So your ability to pull yourself up a ladder, your ability to pull yourself up a ladder onto a rooftop, any, any of these different things are marked by what we have to do, especially when you're going through training. So, yeah, when I went to training, I think I was probably 5 7. I might have grown one more inch. And I started training at 18, so I was 18 years old. I was 5 7. And I, I think I checked into buds at about 135. So I was one of the lightest guys in the class.

[Megyn Kelly]

That's inspirational though. There are probably a lot of guys out there thinking, oh my gosh, maybe I, maybe I too could be a seal.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, oh, 100. And I'm not one of the smallest. I mean, believe it or not, like I said, I'm on the smaller end of the spectrum. But we've had seals I think the smallest I ever heard was about five, two and I obviously we've got great big huge guys there. It's, it's not normal. The big guys really have a hard time making it through training. The amount of pounding on their joints ends up breaking them for the hundreds and hundreds of miles that you run and the amount of, of body weight, strength you have endurance, you have to have to be able to do 20, 30 pull ups to be able to do 50 dips, to be able to do hundreds and hundreds of push ups. It's really hard on big guys joints.

[Megyn Kelly]

My 9 year old was listening to me prepare for you and we were talking all about the SEALs and training and he wanted to know if they make you do one handed push ups, do they make you do any of those?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yes. And I actually when I broke my arm and training, training and I had to do a lot of one arm push ups because just because I had broken my arm did not mean that I, I, that I wasn't still getting yelled at and dropped to do push ups and do things.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow, wow, wow. It's so, that's so good. You know, But I think you tell me, but it seems like whatever the height, whatever the stature, the number one thing, the reason you made it as a SEAL was that attitude. It's that attitude like that just never say die. I will not quit. There's something different, different in the guys who make it through as SEALs versus everybody else because they have that thing that just, it will not let them quit.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

That's right. It's, I think there are two things that enable individuals into special operations. Number one that we like to call it the no quit gene. I mean the Navy has spent millions and millions of dollars trying to figure out how do they increase the number of graduates from SEAL training. And, and all these things they've done going all the way back to World War II when they started training, really the attrition rate has stayed roughly the same. It has been around 75%. So 75% of the people that start training do not graduate. We often talk about it's the no quit gene. Everybody gets pushed to the point. Everyone has a breaking point. And in SEAL training they push you to that point and they teach you how to grind through it and keep going. Your brain will tell you you have to stop. Your brain will tell you if I don't keep going, I'm going to die. But the reality is your body can keep going almost 10 times further beyond that. And so it's the ability to Endure that gets you through training. But the other thing that I think, special operations guys, they have the ability to process massive amounts of information in a very chaotic environment and make rapid decisions. And there's a lot of people that can't do that. I mean, when we send guys into, you know, a. Imagine a hostage rescue scenario where they're now having to make entry into a room where there are bad guys in the room that are shooting at you, you very quickly have to assess that situation, identify who's bad, who's good, who do I need to shoot, who do I not need to shoot, who do I need to protect? And all of that's happening in milliseconds. And there are definitely guys that make it through training. Unfortunately, they don't have the ability to process that information at that rate. And sometimes they end up going away just because of that. So it's those two things that I think truly make excellent special operations. You know, people, they make great seals.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, it kind of reminds me of I was talking one time to the coach, the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, and he was saying, saying when he recruits quarterbacks, he does need, you know, an agile, you know, guy who can actually complete the plays and knows how to throw the football and has sort of a physics, a basic knowledge of Phillips physics and instinctual knowledge of physics. But he was saying some of the guys can't remember the playbook. They don't remember everything that's in there and when to call which play, depending on how the guys line up in the field. Far less dangerous, obviously than what you do. But it was kind of a similar thing where it's not enough to have the physical capabilities. There has to be this mental thing that you either have or you don't have. And if you don't have it, it's as much of a deal breaker as not having the physical strength.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Absolutely. And sometimes it will become the deal breaker. I mean, you know, there are a lot of guys out there that are strong. I mean, I meet a lot of individuals who will say to me, oh, you know, they're, they're anywhere from professional athletes to believe it or not. I meet a lot of high level business individuals in the financial market that will say to me, I definitely could have been a seal. And you know, I laugh at a, the arrogance of that statement, but. And maybe, maybe they do have a little bit of the financial, I mean, the physical ability. But do you have the ability to process information and continue to execute when you're in the middle of a Firefighter, after you've, you know, flown in, taken fire, maybe you've jumped in and now you're patrolling long ways. Maybe you've been in a firefight before. You even get to the target building. Now you're in the target target. You, you know, you're in a firefight, you have people that are wounded. Now you're trying to move people out, you know, now you've got civilians you're trying to take care of along with your wounded while things are still blowing up around you. And you still got to process all this. I mean, that was all stuff that I experienced in my career. And there are some people that can do that and unfortunately there's a lot more that can't. They just high pressure environments, they shut down. Professional sports is the same. You put people, they often talk about the, you know, the high level level games, you know, like the super bowl or the NCAA championship games, and how some of the players just can't manage that stress and that overwhelming pressure.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, you can see it when people choke. I mean, in sports we have an opportunity to see it in a way we don't in military, where you can see who's a choker and who's not, who performs at that high level in the most stressful of circumstances and who and who doesn't. Now, now, wait. This is a stupid question, but I have to ask it. So are you telling me that even in my own exercise life, which I will grant you is more limited than it ought to be, when I am doing the jumping jacks and I am so burned and my legs are on fire and I'm like, I've got to take the next eight out and I've just got to like bend down for the next eight. I'll come back after an eight beat pause. Are you telling me I can just keep going? Are you telling me that, like, if I would just get mentally tougher, suffer, I can do it straight through, just keep freaking pushing?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Absolutely. Believe it or not, most people could. If you had the fortitude and the ability to endure the pain and the discomfort, you could probably push yourself right to death. You could jumping jack yourself to death. It would take a long time. There'd be all kinds of alarm bells going off in your brain probably days before you got there. But it is amazing, the resiliency of this amazing machine we walk around in. And unfortunately, in this day and age, we're not building that much in our people. We're getting softer as a generation. And, you know, every Monday I put out a Leadership and resilience video. I call it Monday Muster and this last Monday it was exactly about that. I just finished reading this book called Kingdom of Ice by Hampton Sides. And it is about the trek to the North Pole I believe 1779. And absolutely amazing. I read that story and the level of heroism and the level of pain and discomfort and frozen temperatures all the time that those guys had to deal with with I, I consider myself fairly tough guy and I, I remember reading it thinking, man, I, how would I have fared in this. So fast forward to today. We don't have to do a lot of things that really push us. People have to do hard things in order to build grit and resilience. So I really encourage those of you that may be watching. You've got to push your kids to do hard things. You have to do hard things. You have to encourage your family to do, do hard things. Otherwise we just get softer and softer and we'll just, you know, it's human nature. We want to be comfortable. Everybody, including me, I mean we all want to be comfortable. But grit and I like to tell people the overcome mindset is not something you can just flip a switch and say, oh, I have to be tough right now, so let me throw my little switch and now I'll be tough. It's built doing hard things and if you don't do hard things, you will never be able to throw that switch when you really need to too.

[Megyn Kelly]

It reminds me, your, your story about your book reminds me of one time I was skiing in this very posh ski resort with my husband and my brother in law, some others. And just like a downpour of snow came right on top of us. Just this huge snowstorm dumped on us and it came fast. And so before we knew it, the snow was up above our knees. You could barely see in front of you. And I said to my brother in law, Ken, I feel like shackles Singleton. And he said, except with no hardship.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know like where they've got the ski butlers who are going to take off the, this, the boots when you get back to the resort.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Oh, poor me. And they warm your boots. I mean I love the resorts like that. We love to ski. So anything like that I'm all about. But yeah, I hate the cold now. And that expedition, I mean you are, you are in SEAL training, training. It is the one common thing. You are wet, cold, covered in sand. So I despise the cold. And I just think about these guys. These guys were literally Cutting frostbite out of their feet. I mean, that's how insane the conditions were and how hard and. And then continuing to go. I mean, there are other people that'd be like, oh, I'm. I'm. I'm now an invalid. There's no way I can fjord. But literally, it wasn't until, like, bones were exposed where they weren't able to walk at all. I was just fascinated with this story and the level of grit and resilience and. And society. We may never get back to that. I mean, thankfully or hopefully, we live

[Megyn Kelly]

in our day, and we are. We are things to people like you. This is. This is what our children need to be watching and listening to guys like you with that same message messaging. You know, I'd like to say it's still the military writ large, notwithstanding Millie and some of these other guys and the messaging from them, but that's what I have my kids listen to. I don't want them listening to your week. Lean into your weaknesses. Everyone's sick. Everyone's depressed. Everyone's near suicidal. You know, here's another poll to confirm all that. Here. Go back on social media to make yourself feel better slash worse. They need to be watching your insta Jocko's.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Those.

[Megyn Kelly]

All these guys who have been through about just grit and mental toughness because it is a skill. Like you were saying, it's a skill, and you have to practice it.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, absolutely. And that's what a lot of people don't. I love the fact when people read my book and they don't really know my story, what's out there is, hey, this guy got all shot up, and he wrote that sign on the door, and he's this tough seal. What they don't realize is there's a huge part of the story that most people don't know until they read my book, and that's that I failed as a young leader.

[Megyn Kelly]

Leader.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

And I'll be honest, it was that journey, building myself back up against really hard odds that really built the overcome mindset and all the leadership things that I talk about today. And, you know, Megan, you nailed it right now in this country, you know, I joke with people about, you know, we're still in the midst of a pandemic, and. And people will go, Covid. And I'm like, no, the pandemic is the victim mindset. There is a large swath of society that is being convinced you are a victim. You know, there are, you know, political leaders that want to convince you, regardless of your race, creed, Color, demographic, gender, gender persuasion, religion, religious affiliation. I don't care what it is. They want to convince you you're a victim and that there's no way you can save yourself. Only, only someone else have to save you. Or oftentimes it's only the government can save you, which is scary and a dangerous thought itself.

[Megyn Kelly]

I.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Everything I teach on is on self leadership. You have the power to drive forward and create change in your life, and it is the exact opposite of this victim mindset. But it is pervasive. It is pervasive across social media. It is pervasive oftentimes in the media. And we've got to break this. I mean, America was built on these, on foundations of resilience and grit and, and self leadership. You know, these individuals that came across here to this country and said, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna figure out how to overcome and we're gonna figure out how to make our way. And right now, we're not there. Everything, even in the military right now, there's this idea about individualism. And I believe in self leadership, but you have to be part of something big, bigger. You know, a military unit is working together. It's a whole bunch of leaders who create this unified organism, if you will, that does incredible things. So fascinating, Watts, and a little sad. I hope that we can wake up. You know, there, there is. You know, I learned the hard way about individualism because when I was. When I got myself in trouble as a leader, it was about me. I was selfish and I was focused on me, and I wasn't focused out outward. And I think there's a lot of that going on in our country right now. You got to take care of yourself. But how does that impact. How do you set the example for your staff, your employees, your children, your spouse, your. Your family, your community? You know, we need more leadership and we need more grit.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

Nothing beats tradition like weekly game nights at mom's house and Tostitos crafted with mind masa made the traditional way, starting with whole corn kernels with flavors worth gathering around, like a hint of lime and Mexican street corn. And no artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives. That's the Tostitos way. Bring Tostitos to your next game night and you'll be winning. Either way. Tostitos tradition matters.

[Megyn Kelly]

I'm Hannah. I've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with GLP1s diet and exercise. Exercise on row. I've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day. You can access FDA approved GLP1s online. Get the support you need to reach your weight loss goals. Go to ROE Co Weight to see if you qualify. I'm a paid ROE partner. 20% average weight loss in one year in non diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight related medical condition versus 3.1% in placebo arm RX only to stay informed about serious side effects. Go to Rock. How do we even still have a military given this mindset amongst the gen zers, do they, do you think today's guys are coming into the military with this victim mentality and then it gets sort of beaten out of them or do you think it just naturally attracts the minority amongst that generation that doesn't have the victim mentality and that's what they're doing there?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I think there's still a lot of individuals that are coming in the military who have that grit and resiliency and want to be part of specific units and certain things. I think the problem is there are parts of the military that becoming a little bit of a social experiment. Like hey, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm conservative, but I probably have a little more liberal views when it comes to social norms. Like I don't care if you're giving day, but in the military there's no room for individualism. You're in the military. We all have to fight together. Race, creed, color, demograph, gender, gender, persuade. None of that matters in the military. If you want to do that in your off time, that's fine, you can embrace that. But as a military, we are a unit that must work together and there is not time or all of that's going to distract if we're so focused on a certain segment or demographic of society that we need to, I don't know, highlight or promote everybody in the military. When I was in, we all wore the same uniform, we didn't highlight anyone. And, and it was amazing to me. And just, you know, the guys across the different platoons that I work, they were different race, creeds. Some were religious, some were Christians, some were atheists, you know, a few other religions that were out there, but it didn't matter. What mattered was our ability to execute the mission and you could depend on that person. And I think the military deeply needs to get back to understanding that and understand that the purpose of the, the military is to protect our, our country, to protect and defend the United States of America, but which should be the same mission for any country that's out there, there. And it's not on highlighting whatever is going on in society out there. Those are, those are political, political aims. The military should always be apolitical with a singularity of focus, which is to protect and defend our nation against, you know, all enemies.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, this is, you correct me if I'm wrong, but this is why the focus by Millie on the, on having you guys learn about white rage or Austin defending, handing out Kendi to, to the troops is so problematic. It's not just a distraction from what you need to be focusing on, which I believe it is. It's divisive. It's. It's kind of sending exactly the opposite of the message you need to ingrain in order to be an effective soldier. Right. Or, or frog like you, frogman. You, you. All the messaging is. Forget that stuff. That stuff is not relevant to us here.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

No, a thousand percent. And I mean, it is the same thing in the military as it's happening in our country. I've talked about this. Our. A lot of political leaders are doing things that are just dividing us as a nation, and they want to focus on, you know, specific segments of time. Slavery happened. It was a terrible thing. But there is no country in the past, you know, 250 years that has made more advances in trying to create equality. I mean, it has been a slow process, obviously, but there have been leaders who saw this is wrong. We need to fix this. And this idea suddenly that, you know, these different initiatives that are out there, you know, the, that focus on America was built on racism. I don't think this is true. We're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And there's a lot of incredible things that have occurred. And when we start to talk about the level of success of the American dream, it has been all race, creed and colors. There are more millionaires in the world that have come out of the United States of America than any other nation on earth. And they're all race, creed, color and gender defenders. You know, and there are some people that would try and say, well, white males are the, the, the majority. Well, maybe that's true right now. But instead of trying to create division, why are we not looking for ways, you know, two wrongs don't make it right to continue to create division, especially in the military. You're creating individuals now. You're creating separation. You're creating a line of distrust. You're creating in potentially even a level of hatred, which is not going to further that unit. It's all about culture. It's all about trust. It's all about respect for each other, that we are equal warriors that are trying to get out there and make something happen. It should be the same in this country. So it's disheartening to me, and it's crazy to me because I think back to Martin Luther King's speech when he said, I had a dream that one day men will be judged by the content of their character, not by the caliber of their skin. You at our political messaging right now is we want to judge individuals by the color of their skin. That's terrible, man. We're all human. We need that. We are, in my opinion, moving backwards. We're moving backwards both in the military and both as a nation. And that's sad to me because I have worked with everyone, you know, everyone. When I. When I lived in the Virgin Islands, I was the only white kid in my class. Class. But I didn't notice that. I didn't care. They were all my friends. And we're becoming this society that wants to focus so much on race. I hate the fact that every single form I fill out today is like, well, what race are you? Yeah, we should eradicate that. And it should just say, are you an American? If you're an American, if you're an American citizen, that's what you are. You know, I think the only things that maybe they still have that on on is potentially medical documents, because there is some linkage, of course, to race and nationality, and hopefully they can help prevent that. Anything else that should go away because it's just used as a method to divide us, and that should not be the case, man. Our leadership should be looking at how to unite us. And right now, all I see is political leadership who's continuing to divide us. And it's happening in the military, too, which is super, super dangerous.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, let's talk about your experience and sort of get the audience through what it was like for you. So you, as I understand it, 9-11-1992, joined the Navy. Is that right? 9-11-92.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

That's right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Little did you know, I mean, you know what, Nine years later, what was going to be happening in this country for guys in the military in particular? Particular. So you go to boot camp, you do buds training. That was January of 1995. I know that this is like small ball for sales guys to talk about BUDS training, but everybody else loves hearing about it. So can you just give us a couple of examples? I was, you know, just listening to these guys talk about, like, your friend Leif and Jocko. They Were on a podcast talking about how like it's to talk about buds, like talk about combat. Only the only people want to talk about buds are people who never actually went to combat after Buddha rods, and that's the highlight of their Navy career. But give me a minute on it, because I think my sons will enjoy it. And I think a lot of people love hearing about just what we put you guys through in order to call yourself a seal.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, trading is hard. It's. I mean, there's no doubt about it. But at the flip side of that coin, I kind of knew what I was getting myself into. I researched. I actually served with one of the East Coast SEAL units before I went out to buds. I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting myself into to. And it is unequivocally hard. Training's broken into three different parts. First phase is designed to weed people out. It is designed to be as hard as possible, physically hard as possible. And so it's. It's massive amounts of physical exercises and evolutions that are pushing you out of your comfort zone into that zone of discomfort and pain and forcing you to come to grief. Grips with your brain is telling you you have to stop, but your. Your body can keep going. That culminates with Hell Week. And Hell Week is probably considered to be one of the top, toughest blocks of training in the US Military, Some say in a lot of our. Our even global military units. And Hell Week is exactly that. It's a week long, goes from Sunday to Friday. And during that week, you will get maybe on average two to three hours of sleep. Sleep. You are constantly wet coated in sand. You're carrying the boat around on top of your head everywhere you go. It's not uncommon for guys to chafe holes inside their. Inside their legs or inside their armpits or to rub the hair off their head. It's not uncommon for your toenails and fingernails to fall off during Hell Week. It's also not uncommon to hallucinate during Hell Week. I remember when I went through Hell we week, a couple of things that stand out. I remember one, I was in the. I was. Boat crews go by height. So the. The tallest boat crews are in Boat Crew 1. Those are the studs. And. And in our class, I Remember Boat Crew 1 1. Everything leading up to Hell Week, they were the beast. And we got into Hell Week and on Tuesday night, I. I was in the shortest boat crew, by the way, which is called the Smurf crew. So for those of you that enjoy that complete with a little smurf on the front of your boat. So. And I remember like the boat Crew one were like gods, you know, we were like, those guys win everything, you know, they just dominated. And on Tuesday night of hell week, which is one of the hardest evolutions that culminates on Tuesday night, everybody on Boat Crew 1 quit that night, except one guy. And it made me realize they're human too. Every single person out there that is like, oh, that guy's got it all figured out. Like, they never have any doubts. That's bs. Everyone has doubts. Everyone has, you know, their hang ups and issues. The difference between successful people is they continue to drive forward besides those doubts. And man, when those guys quit, I was like, like I got this and kept driving forward.

[Megyn Kelly]

Why they quit?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

It's hard, it's miserable. It's. You have to dig deep within yourself. And the evolution we were doing is something called steel piers. And what they do is, you know, they have a, like a fire hose that they're misting you. It's, it's at night in San Diego Bay. I went through Hell week in March. So the temperature was probably, probably in low 50s. The water temp I would imagine was probably in maybe high 50s. And, and it was a large floating steel pier. And you, you were forced to remove all your clothing and fold it up. You were just wearing a small pair of shorts. That was it. And they would, you were with your swim buddy in these little metal, I don't know, they were probably like 3 by 3 foot squares and the whole class, glasses spread out with their swim buddy. And you would have to fold your clothes up and the instructors would say, place your, you know, pants folded up in the northwest corner. And none of us had a compass. And you've already been awake for like 48 hours. So you're like, it's nighttime, so you're like this northwest. So everyone would try and figure out which way was northwest. And the class would come to a conclusion. This is northwest. And, and you know, you'd mess it up and then you'd get yelled at and they'd force you to lay down on the cold steel and they'd spray you with water until you were sh. Enough. And at some point they'd scream at you to get up and jump in the water and, and I remember we'd all run over to the edge and it was like your body was telling you to go, but your brain would like slam on the brakes. And it was so funny. You'd watch everybody. I remember this, in my mind, everybody would get up to the edge of the pier and like, come to this stop and be like. And then you just have to force yourself into the water. And the instructors would like throw your clothes and your boots into the water, which, you know, you're in, you're in the bay. So now you're having to dive down in the darkness and find your stuff. And, and this went on for hours, probably four or five hours. And, and I remember when guys quit, they. The steel pier was down below the concrete pier which was up above where the vans were parked up there. And, and there's all, there's a method to the madness. I mean a lot of what SEAL training, special operations training is, it's psychological. You know, SEAL training is not. You don't accomplish SEAL training through this. It's accomplished through this. And through this, your ability to find it within your heart and to think through the problems. So when guys would quit, they would be given a blanket and a hot cup of coffee or cocoa and they would go sit in the van that was, had the heater on. And you would see them up there sitting in that van, drinking with their blanket on, all warm, looking down on you while you're getting your butt kicked. And it was so easy to say, man, all I have to do is say I quit and I can go sit in that warmth. And that's, man, that's like life. How often do we find these moments like, man, all I have to do is get a little further and I try to explain to people, keep pushing. You never know. It's always darkest before the dark on. And so anyways, that's what happened to Bo Crew 1. All of them I think got caught up in it and, and they quit during that evolution. So.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I remember on Thursday or on Wednesday night, I was hallucinating. We were doing an evolution called around the World where you rode your boats around Coronado Island. And so now you've been awake for what, 96 hours at least east. And it's very common for guys start hallucinating. And I was, I was seeing fences, chain link fences out in the middle of the ocean. And I'd tell the guys, we gotta turn, we're gonna hit this fence. I was seeing concrete walls that I was trying to steer around. I was hearing voices out in the middle. My, my buddy, he was telling me he saw a witch standing out in the water. And like he told himself, he like, okay, that, that's not there. So I'm just going to look away. And when I look back, it's going to be gone. When he looked back, she was still there. So he was like, guys, we got to row faster. This witch is going to get us.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is it just from lack of sleep? Is that what's causing the hallucinations?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, yeah, lack of sleep, man, it is amazing. The people really underestimate sleep and how good sleep is for you and how bad it is for you when you don't sleep, how bad your brain starts to down and your decision making becomes poor. And yeah, even in the point you're starting to hallucinate.

[Megyn Kelly]

I was just talking to a doctor about this and we were talking about how, you know, some people, they get up at the crack of dawn, pre, pre crack of dawn to work out and that's fine as long as you've built in enough sleep prior to that point that you've gotten a good night. You know, did you get your seven hours or did you get four hours so that you could get up at 4am and he was saying they're completely missing the point because sleep is, is as important as exercise and nutrition to your overall wellness, your, your mental wellness, your brain function, your heart function, all of it. And so unless you can get the seven hours before you get up at four, it doesn't make much sense to do that just so you can work out.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

You need both, you need sleep a thousand percent. And this something that I really had to come to grips with. I mean I teach, you know, something called the Pentagon at peak performance in the base level is physical leadership. And sleep is a big component of that. My whole life I've gotten up early, but I wasn't getting the. I need, I know my body, I need a minimum six hours. Seven is ideal for me to optimize. And I wasn't getting that. I was running, you know, oh, I gotta get up at 5:30 every single morning. And in the last, last year my cortisol levels were high. I was having, you know, some of these health issues and I, I said, okay, I'm going to force myself to get more sleep. And it has reset a lot of things. People just underestimate the power of sleep. Especially I meet people in the business world or guys who think they're really tough and they'll say to me, hey, I, you know, I get by on four hours sleep a night. And I'm like, awesome, man, congratulations. You are chronically fatigued and nowhere near near the optimal self you could be

[Megyn Kelly]

and you'll be dead soon. I mean really, it shortens lifespan. So it's really. You can't sacrifice sleep but work out and eat healthy. That's. That's just dumb, dumb strategy. All right, so you, you're in the Navy. You 911 happens. You are deployed in Afghanistan, right? In Afghanistan as an officer in 2004. Is that corporate correct?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I. I commissioned in 2004. We went to Afghanistan in 2005.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. And this is where you, I think it's fair to say, would face this major leadership challenge that you referenced earlier in which you feel you fell down on the job. So tell us what happened.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

It's a little bit of a perfect storm. So I came into the Navy in 1992 into a peacetime military, and there's a, you know, there's a big difference in a peacetime military and a wartime military. I try to, you know, you nailed it when you said when you signed up on 9 11, you had no clue what was coming. And that is a fact. And I try and explain that to younger guys and gals in the military. You never know when something's going to happen. None of us saw 911 happening. We went from total peacetime to total wartime within I think two or three years. All of the SEAL teams were 100 combat experienced. And. And that was one one of the goals, obviously. So I actually started school in the summer of 2001, and 911 happened, obviously in September. Myself and a couple of my teammates that were at school together tried to get out of the program. Like, hey, we know we're going to war. Get us out. You know, let us go back to a platoon. And one of our most respected leaders who had helped me get commission, I remember prophetically said, right read this war is going to go on for decades. He's like, go back to school. You will get your chance. So while I was at school, the community obviously was going off to war in both Iraq and Afghanistan. And one of the things that occurred was typically the military bases, tactics and strategies off the last sustained combat. And the SEAL teams based a lot of our tactics off Vietnam. That was the last time we had seen years of combat.

[Megyn Kelly]

Combat.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Well, when we got over to Iraq and Afghanistan, we quickly realized a lot of those old tactics used in the jungles and Mekong Delta and the swamps of Vietnam didn't necessarily apply quite as well in the mountains and the urban and desert environments out of Iraq. Not only technology advanced with vehicles. So the bottom line, our tactics changed pretty drastically. So here I was, this ex enlisted guy who thought I was like, God's gift to leadership, ego and arrogance kind of got the best of me. And I came back when I got commissioned in 2004 thinking, Man, I'm the man. I know everything. I'm going to step back. I'm going to be, like, patent reincarnated or something. And that really wasn't the case. I stepped back in and. And technically, I was probably one of the more inexperienced guys because I didn't have combat experience, and probably 60% of our platoon at that point definitely did. And instead of humbling myself and saying. And not only that, all our tactics had changed. So instead of humbling myself and saying to the guys, younger guys who might have been more experienced, hey, man, I don't know how to do this. I made the mistake as a young leader saying, oh, I'm a leader. Like, it's a sign of weakness if I say, I don't know how to do this, which is a fallacy. It's wrong. But. But in doing that, I. I started to damage my credibility as a leader. Well, that was hurting me. So. And I recognized it was hurting me. So then what was the next thing I did? Well, I started. I recognized that I was damaging my credibility. I was stepping on my toes, not keeping up like I should be, and I started drinking away my. My stress. So then I became known as a drunk on top of everything else. Fast Forward deployed Afghanistan in 2005, and the very first mission we were getting ready to transition over. So Operation Red Wings was our troop. Lieutenant Commander Eric Christensen was my boss. A lot of the guys that you will read about that were shot down on the helicopter, and that Red Wings is the lone survivor story. For those that may be familiar with that, if you've seen that movie or watched or read Marcus's book, we had

[Megyn Kelly]

him on the show last. Last August with his brother. It was just an incredibly compelling episode. So they know the story.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Okay, so. So I was a part of the troop. Our sister platoon was a platoon that was on the helicopter for Red Wing that was shot down. We were getting ready to. To fly to Afghanistan to turn over with those guys that following week. I think we were set to fly, like, right after the 4th of July. And of course, on June 28th, the helicopter was shot down. So this was our first introduction to combat. That's when I first I met Marcus at the hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. We stood watch on Mike Murphy and Danny Dietzen's bodies. They had not recovered. Matt Axelsman yet flew to Afghanistan, and the recovery was underway. And that's how our deployment started. So Here I was this knucklehead young officer who was stepping on his toes, who now, you know, got to. Got to combat. And I wanted to prove myself. You know, hey, Red wings happen. You know, we want payback, which is okay, that's fine. But there is a balance. As a leader, we have to, you know, it should be the, the, the, the mission, then the men or the team that you're working with, and you're last on the equation. Unfortunately, I inverted that and, you know, how do I make myself look like a, you know, a great leader and a great hero? And I may I continue to make mistakes culminating with a bad call on a mission in, in September of the that deployment.

[Megyn Kelly]

So good, so good, so good.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

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[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

That call really did damage to my. My reputation. I am very fortunate that no one was injured or killed because of that call, but what it did kill was my professional reputation. By the time I got back out of that valley, the guys were like, get rid of that guy. They were calling me Rambo Red, which that is not a compliment. You know, for those who think Rambo is really cool, it's a cool movie. It doesn't apply in the military. It's kind of what we talked about before. There's no room for individualism, especially a leader who is making decisions based on his own glory. And that was. I saw. I wanted to get in the fight, and I saw an opportunity. I took, took it. And I am very fortunate that no one was killed because of my decision making. So that, that started a whole new journey because there were guys who said, kick that guy out. And. And it was the lowest point I've ever hit in my life. I went and had to stand in front of my commanding officer and explain my, my actions. And I'll never forget. He, He. There were guys in that room that were like, get rid of this guy. He's going to get people killed. Killed. And. And my commanding officer told me to go back to my room, and he would let me know the next morning what his decision was. And I went back to my room and. And I almost killed myself. I put a gun in my mouth and I started to pull the trigger, but fortunately, I think God intervened. I looked. I. I just. Right about time I did it. Looked across at the desk, and there was a picture of my wife and kids. And, you know, just this voice was like, what are you doing? You know, what are you doing? What. What. What impact are you going to leave behind on them? And I remember I. I put my gun away. I went and sought out special operations chaplain and talked to him. We talked a lot. And he said, no matter what happens, you know, if they take your trident or if they kick you out, then, you know, you've got to figure out what the path forward is. But never forget, for every the end moment in your mind, life there becomes a new beginning. It's up to you what you do with that new beginning. This is a big part of what I talk on. It's a part of my TED talk that I talk on. It's part of what I speak on. And he was absolutely right. And thankfully, you know, credit to my commanding officer, who did not kick me out, even though he. He absolutely could have. As a matter of fact, I'm actually surprised he didn't. I mean, here's a guy who's grieving from the loss of 11 teammates only a couple months earlier. He didn't get to go home. He didn't get to go to the memorial ceremony. We had to stay and continue the mission. So. And now he's got this knucklehead ensign who's making bad calls. I mean, I think it would have been super easy for him to say, I don't have time to deal with this, nor do I. Nor do I have the emotional capacity to deal with this. But he didn't. He said, you know what, Red? You've done some good things. I believe in you. I'm going to give you a second chance. And he, He. He did. I mean, there was some. There was some punishment that came along with it. They. Any awards I was supposed to get, they retracted. I had to sign an unofficial letter of reprimand that was held in the commanding officer safe. And if I had. If I had messed up again, that letter would have gone into my Permanent officer record, which would ended my career. And. And I got sent to US Army Ranger School, which is probably one of the best things that could have happened, happen to me.

[Megyn Kelly]

I mean, it's pretty cool. I mean, to learn how to be a Ranger and develop all those skills too. But you emerged out of that with a whole new set of leadership skills.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I did Ranger school. I'd love to tell people that when I walked out of the office in Afghanistan after getting that second chance, I was immediately like, yes, I'm gonna. I'm gonna, you know, recreate myself. But. But, you know, sometimes in this life, our new beginnings take time. And, you know, I talk about this victim mindset. I had a little bit of the victim mindset. I was seeing myself as a victim that the guys threw me under the bus and I hadn't come to grips yet with, you know, the only person that put himself there was me. My poor decision making and really selfishly viewing. Looking more at myself and not outward at the team and the mission and the impacts of that. And thankfully, it was at Ranger school that I really started to figure that out. You know, kind of a interesting side note, in Ranger school, I screwed up. I failed to land that test. And seals are a little bit of anomaly. We don't go through Ranger school that often. And, you know, there's that great professional rivalry between the army and the Navy, and. And a lot of the Rangers, I don't think, liked me very much. So they. They let me know it and gave me a lot of grief about being there. And when I failed the land nav course, man, they laid into me. They. I'm sorry. Land navigation. This is orienting with a compass to figure out where you're going in the woods in the dark and all that. And. And the Ranger school land nav course is pretty long. You started in the middle of the night. And I had taught land nap. Once again, ego and arrogance. I thought, I'll crush this course. And I didn't. I failed it. I missed a point. Point. And the instructors were totally heckling me. And in the moment, I allowed my emotions to get the best of me. And I basically told those instructors what I thought of them, and they said, are you quitting? And I said, yeah, I'm out of here. It's the only thing I've ever quit in my life. And so I had to go meet with the Ranger colonel and. And the Ranger colonel listened, and he said, I think you should talk to one of your SEAL teammates. And I'll be honest, I was utterly ashamed and embarrassed. And I was like, I don't want to talk to anyone. You know, I just want to crawl under a rock and like, I guess this the end of my military career. And he said, hey, I'm friends with a, the guy's name is Colonel. He was Colonel Cook KK Chin back then. He retired a two star general. And I had become friends with him because he really amazing guy, amazing leader. He saved my career. And he ended up calling one of our most respected SEAL leaders who happened to be a mentor of mine who had, had helped me get commissioned. And he put me on the phone with him and I remember telling him this whole story how, you know, I ended up there. And he said, red, I know all about what happened with you. Did you ever think that you're seeing this as punishment? He said, did you ever think you might learn something from this? And I said no. And then I told him, I said, but sir, no one's ever going to follow me again. I've made too many mistakes. I don't think I can recover from this. And he gave me the first foundational level of everything that I teach in leadership now. He said, red, people will follow you if you give them a reason to. That's it. That's all leadership is. He said, I don't care how bad you've messed up. It's human nature that if someone is on the winning team, if someone is leading a team, a community, a company to success and they're a pretty good person, you know, despite any mistakes they made in their past, it's human nature. We're going to follow them. We want, we all want to be on the winning team. He said, so go back to Rangers school, crush it, come back and give the guys a reason to follow you. And I was like, roger that. I hung up the phone and I, I looked at the Ranger Colonel and I said, will you put me back in my class? And he said, no, you quit. You get to go sit in Ranger school jail for a month and you'll class up with the next class. So for a month I walked around Fort Benning picking up trash. And it was probably the best thing that ever going to happen to me because it finally humbled me and it gave me a lot of time to think about, about I was the problem. I was the problem. And it was my lack of my own self leadership, selfish leadership that put me there and it really changed everything. I created a new, you know, my three rules of leadership that I now teach and, and that enabled me to drive forward, graduate Ranger school and slowly, over the next couple of years, build back my credibility as a leader.

[Megyn Kelly]

This is what is so extraordinary about our military and some of the leaders who are in it. They somehow know when it's time to temper that extreme discipline and harsh, unforgiving training with mercy and inspiration and encouragement. The best leaders do. I mean, that's just a gift. When you have a guy like that above you who knows you and knows what you need in the moment, whether it's kicking the pants or a lift, that's. I, I love that story. And I, I love knowing that there are guys like that out there training the next generation of warriors and, and that you're out there using these same skills to help civilians, too, try to get through just life with some of

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

these lessons they apply and, and our military. I mean, I, I, I frequently speak to the military. I've been fortunate enough to speak almost all the service academy academies, West Point. All you have to do is call me. I will come speak for you guys anytime.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yes. And it's amazing. It's so beautiful there. You should go.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I know. I want to. You know, I mean, I speak army. I wear the ranger tab. I speak army.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, exactly. Right. Well, thank you for sharing that with me. That's like, with all of us. That's, that's a very moving story. That, that could be the most moving story of the exchange we have. I feel like I learned so much already, and we haven't even gotten to the, you know, apex of everything that you've gone through. I do. Before we get to your injury and what happened, can we just spend a minute on Erica? Because she's a huge part of your story, and we kind of glanced by on my wife and my kids. By the way, when you told me about that moment when you were feeling like you might take your own life and, you know, God stepped in and stopped you, I completely believe that was an angel. That was. An angel was sent to you to stop you in the same way. I talked to Dakota Meyer last, last Memorial Day, and he talked about the same thing was back when he got stateside again, though, for him, and he actually tried. He pulled the trigger. He, he had the gun, pulled the trigger, and an angel had taken the bullets out of the, out of the gun. He thought it was loaded, but just. I feel like so many of you guys go through these massive travails and emotional traumas, whether it's while you're serving or the buildup to the serving or just you're so hard on yourself. And you're so used to being able to do everything at a high level, right? And then when you have a failure, that's when you really get tested. And I just think every once in a while, you need an angel to come help you. And I agree with you that God plays a role. So I'm glad you had. I'm glad you had your faith to get you through. All right, so, Erica, just to rewind now, because we're in 2005, I think, when you did Army Ranger school, and you had all that happen to you, but five years earlier, year you'd been out on the town, what town were you in? This back stateside. Right?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Louisville, Kentucky.

[Megyn Kelly]

Louisville, Kentucky. And you guys were out. A bunch of you. And you decided that night, for whatever reason, you're gonna pretend that you were all there as boxers, that you were there for some big boxing match. And you see this stunning blonde with the thousand watt smile from across the room. And I mean, man, did you woo her. Your lines, I mean, that's.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

They.

[Megyn Kelly]

They will live in infamy, but I just. So tell us how you managed to woo this amazing woman into having a drink with you.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Well, she ditched me at first. So once again, you know, tell me I can't do something. And I hung out with the guys a little more, and it was a great big place. For any of you that are familiar with Louisville, Kentucky, it was the Phoenix Hill Tavern, which is a, you know, it's a huge warehouse type bar. Had like, I don't know, three levels, six or seven bars in it. And I'd gone upstairs at some point. I looked across the. The upstairs bar area, and she was kind of across the room, standing on top of this, I don't know, elevated structure. And there was a guy talking to her, and she. She just looked miserable, like, I wish this guy would leave. And I was like, yes, here's my chance. So I. I went up and I. I kind of jumped up on the platform with her. And she seemed rather shocked, and the guy seemed rather perturbed, but I just kind of ignored him. And finally he got the message and left. And. And I don't know, we just hit it off. There was kind of a natural chemistry that we. We talked from that point forward through the rest of the night and ended up linking up with her the next day for a barbecue. You. Which is kind of a funny story because she didn't mention that she had a. A young son. He was four months old or. Or six months old at that time. And literally, we opened the door, and she, like, hands him to me. Here, hold. Awesome.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

And. And then she's like, hey, by the way, hey, we have a new grill, so can you put the grill together? So. So, yeah, that was kind of our first date. I put this grill together for a barbecue.

[Megyn Kelly]

Get him trained early. I like this girl. Like, this is how it's gonna be. You're gonna help me with my son, you're gonna put my grill together, and I'm gonna do things for you too. So. Yeah, I remember. I read from your book, your opening line was, hi, I'm Jay. How you doing? Can I buy you a drink? I cringed at my lack of wit and charm and the weakest pickup line ever. What the hell? That's the best I've got. But you know what? That's really all it takes. Any, like, faux attempt to be overly clever is usually seen right through. So I think, you know, you did the right thing, obviously, because it all worked out. So you wound up getting married. You married Erica, and you had two additional children, two daughters. So those are the three key kids and the wife and the family that you referenced when. When the times were tough. And she's still with us. I mean, she's still with you, and we'll get to all of that. But I. I love the story of Erica. So now we're post ranger school, and you gotta go back out there and is this. It was what. It was May of 2007 that you were deployed to Fallujah, Iraq, and. Oh, my God. Can I tell you, Jay, I. Whenever I even hear Fallujah, I brace myself. It's just like all the stories are awful. They're just all awful. They're terrible. Just so many bad things happened there. And it just seems like it went so poorly, and it was so incredibly violent and dark, and our guys were just overwhelmed time after time and kept fighting and the sacrificing. So it's already a trigger, I think, for a lot of people who covered the news. News, you know, as I was doing at that time, never mind the guys who actually lived it. So you knew, going over there at that point. High, high levels of danger here. Yes.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we. The. The Jocko's deployment was 2006, prior to US operating out of Ramadi. And a lot of the guys who are operating prior to us all. All Fallujah, Ramadi, and Havanee are the big cities in the Anbar province. Province. And a lot of the fighting had intensified in 06 and 07, really heavily. The second big battle, you know, a large battle occurred in Fallujah. In 06, the Ambar Awakening had occurred. So a lot of the local tribal shakes had finally, I think, had enough. And whereas before, they weren't really cooperating much with the, the coalition forces, the American government and the American military machine, I think finally they said, if we don't cooperate with them, we're never going to be able to get our country back. So what started to happen was in 06 and 07, they started feeding us real intelligence, which enabled us to really start going after Al Qaeda and insurgent leadership. So I will say, as seals, even though we knew it was a high level of danger danger, it also was everything we had ever trained to. You know, at the pinnacle of special operations is direct action missions to take out, you know, mid level and high level enemy leaders and then probably hostage rescue type operations. And, you know, we got exposed to a lot of direct action going to those leaders, but also even at one point trying to rescue an army, an army soldier and a Marine. And I just, those moments stood out in my mind, like how amazing it was that I was part of a unit that had trained to the level that these were the things that we could do. So we had a lot of close calls on that deployment, but it also, I was with one of the best troops I've ever been a part of. It gave me an opportunity to grow as a leader and, and learn and really put a lot of the new leadership things that I had incorporated into my life. Starting in Ranger school on this very intense combat deployment.

[Megyn Kelly]

You were second in command?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yes.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay. And you'd been over there for quite a few months when I think it was September rolled around and you were out on such a mission as you just described, trying to take down this relatively high level leader. And you've been given some intel about where you could find him and you guys moved in to do exactly that. And what happened?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

To make a long story short, we walked into a very well executed ambush. The, the initial building we took down, they were not there, but we found a lot of signs that someone had recently been there there while we were collecting intelligence and we had found IED making components and we were going to blow all that stuff up. Our snipers saw a bunch of activity on another building about 150 yards away. So my boss had me take about nine members of my team, myself and eight other members, seven SEALs and our interpreter, and moved on. This other building where we had seen individuals come out of the front door and run across street into this vegetation. What we didn't know was our number one Al Qaeda leader for the Anbar province, he had been in our original building we were in and he had moved to that building and he had, he had about a 15 man security detail that then set up an ambush line in the vegetation across across the street. And those individuals we saw go out the door were the last part of his security detail that were part of that ambush line. And, and my team and I walked unfortunately right into that ambush. I mean, we were, we, we, we knew that there was enemy. We had air assets overhead, we had the Air Force AC130 gunship that we were talking to. And hey, can you see weapons? They couldn't see anything. So you know, and, and we had seen this before. We weren't just walking blindly. I mean, we had, we had seen cases where the enemy would hide, not recognizing, you know, that, you know, technology and things like that. So unfortunately, yeah, we walked into a very well executed ambush. My, my medic was initially hit, taken around directly below the knee. And then one of our other guys, Maddie, ran forward, grabbed our medic, started to drag him back. Maddie was shot up the right side. Two rounds in his leg, one in his arm. Still managed strong enough to pull himself and, and move back to, back to the tire behind us. There was like a large tractor tire, nothing but thousands of yards of empty Iraqi desert. And there was kind of a large John Deere style tractor tire. And then there was a true tree, maybe, I don't know, 10 yards away from that tractor tire. And D.J. fell back to the tree. Everybody else was behind the tractor. I was still out front at this point. I was trying to lay down fire when both machine guns turned on me and I was stitched across the body armor. I took two rounds in the left elbow, which I thought shot my arm off in the moment. I took rounds off my gun, rounds off my helmet. I had my left night vision tube shot off. I took rounds off, rounds off my right side plate, turned to try and move back to the guys, and it was at this point that I caught around in the face. It hit me right in front of the ear, traveled through my face, exited the right side of my nose, took off most of my nose, blew out my right cheekbone. What was left of the cheek broke and kicked out to the right. The bullet traveled right under my eye, vaporized my orbital floor. It broke all the bones above my eye. I fell in this newfound hole in my face. It broke the Head of my jaw and shattered my jaw to my chin and, and it knocked me out. The, the, the guys saw me fall and initially thought I was dead. Thankfully, you know, a tribute to the SEAL teams and how we train. We don't leave anybody behind. And they could have easily said, red's dead, let's continue to try and fall back or whatever we can do. But I was, you know, pinned down probably 15 yards in front of me them while this literal gunfight was happening directly over me. When I came to, I realized I was still in this gunfight. I realized that I was totally unable to do anything. And thankfully my team lead, Jay, who combat experience seal, what we call a jtac, he is trained to coordinate air strikes from aircraft to the ground. And, and Jay coordinated and said, hey, to the AC130, we need an immediate, we need an immediate fire mission. And unfortunately we were so close. I was only 45ft from the machine gun that had me pinned down. And that's well, well, well within danger close parameters. And the gunship said, no way we can bring this. We're going to kill you guys if we do. And so they said, hey, you need to figure out a way to fall back. So gunfight went on for another five minutes or so. The entire gunfight lasted about 35 to 40 minutes. Jay called for another one. They said no. On the third attempt, probably after 15 minutes, he basically said, hey, look, you know, if you don't bring in this fire mission, there's not going to be anybody left. You know, I got people critically wounded, we're running out of ammo, like you have to bring in this fire mission. It was at that point they basically, basically put the onus on him. They made him give his JTAC designator number, meaning the training that our joint tactical air controllers go through that basically say they have the ability to do this job, they understand all the ordinance, they understand all the danger close parameters. And they made him read off his JTAC number or give his JTAC number that basically said, you're acknowledging that we may potentially kill you if we bring this strike in. And, and Jay did an amazing job coordinating that. I remember him calling out to me, incoming. And the aircraft flies at a pretty high altitude and you can hear the gun go off and then there's a delay probably five or six seconds before the rounds hit the ground. And I remember hearing the, you know, of the gun up overhead and the enemy was still firing. So, so machine guns turning away and all of a sudden, you know, Explosions incurred in front of us and blew up over us. And all of a sudden, that. That gun went cold. That machine gun in front of me that had me pinned down went cold. And I heard the enemy, like, crying out to Allah, Allah, Allah Akbar. And I remember thinking to myself, stand by, man. Like, here he comes. And sure enough, next rounds came in, which took him out, out, took other enemy out. Jay came forward at this point, grabbed me, got me back to the tire, got a tourniquet on me. I owe my life to him. And we ended up calling in, I think, eight or nine more fire missions before we were able to bring in the medevac, you know, to. To get us out of there.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my God. What's Jay's full name?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I think it's okay for it to be out there. So Jay Alias. I was with him this weekend, and this was a conversation we had, so this is kind of the first time, but he told me he's okay with being out there. More before, I had not. We had not talked about it, or I had not given his name.

[Megyn Kelly]

But, I mean, what. It. What.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I owe my life to him. I. I love that man and all my teammates. I owe my life to my teammates and that gunship. I mean. I mean, you know, people want to say, oh, you're so tough, you know, maybe. But I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for those guys. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that gunship up overhead. And that's what frustrates me with the military right now, with this focus on individualism. Like it is the team effort.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It is

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

all different. You know, it's. It's all of us together from different backgrounds and different demographics and different race and creeds and all these different things that. That come together for a very unified mission. In this case, that mission was to make sure that we all came home alive. Or at a minimum, you know, if I had died, they would have brought, you know, hopefully my body home to. To Erica and the kids. But thankfully, you know, I. I was able to hang on. And they did a great job fighting in that gunship, so rightfully so. The gunship was decorated. I don't feel like our guys were decorated enough. I am going to come back around. It's something I've been talking about with them, about resubmitting them for award reviews, but. But I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for those guys.

[Megyn Kelly]

We took some hits, obviously, but we didn't lose a single guy. And the other Guys did.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

There were. There was no one. The enemy leader got away. He got away long before this gunfight ever occurred. They came out in the ambush. He managed to sneak out the back of the house, but everybody that engaged us, there was no one left to go home and talk about it.

[Megyn Kelly]

He got away, but not for long.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Not for long. Another team ended up about four months later finishing the job.

[Megyn Kelly]

Good. We got him. We got him eventually. So you. What? Next thing you know, you wake up where they take you to the hospital, and it's an incredible story. You sort of coming back to consciousness and starting to process what's happened to you.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah. So they initially. Normally head injuries go to Balad, but I was so critical, they flew me directly to bags. Baghdad, got to Baghdad. And I'll be honest, I don't. I don't think I thought I was gonna make it. But thankfully, you know, and this is a shout out to the amazing military medical teams and the trauma surgeons. A lot of people don't know that the greatest advances in trauma medicine are made in war. And it's incredible. There are a lot of civilian trauma doctors and orthopedic surgeons and all kinds of anesthesiologists that volunteer to go over to the war zone in these dangerous places. And literally, some of the best and the brightest doctors in the world end up coming and helping to save our wounded. And they're so good. I knew that if you made it to the hospital with a pulse, you had a 90% chance of making it home alive. And I hung onto that fact like a lifeline as I flew that medevac helicopter and drifted in and out of consciousness. So I got there. They saved me. I remember waking up and I was so elated to know that I was still alive. I also was fascinated because I thought my arm had been shot off. And I remember learning that I still had an arm gravely damaged. Later, they would talk about amputating it and they would keep it. But in the beginning, I was happy for that. And I remember my commanding officer and my command mass chief were there in the hospital as I woke up. And I remember going to talk and I couldn't talk. And the nurse said, hey, you know, Lieutenant, you're. You're. You're trait. You know, you're. You're messed up. You're wired shut, and you're trached. You're not going to be able to talk. So I said, okay, give me a piece of paper. And I wrote down three questions. I said. I said, are my guys at Work okay. And they told me that. That Luke and. And Matt were out of surgery and that they were going to be okay. And I said, okay. Has my wife been notified? And that's a. That's a funny story or a kind of a crazy story in itself, but at this point, she had been notified. Although my commanding officer did not know my mental state, and that was a real concern of theirs with this head injury injury, they didn't know the angle of the bullet. They only knew I had been shot in the face. So they didn't know if I did survive, what level of mental. Did I have a major traumatic brain injury or anything like that. So he would later call her after this and let her know I was doing okay. So that was second question and third question. I don't know why I asked this. I said, do I still look pretty? And. And they told me no. They told me no, that getting shot in the face would probably be an improvement. And it actually was, was I used to have like a big old Tom Cruise nose. So two facts. Jay and I were actually joking about this, that I had a big old Tom Cruise nose that I had broken. And I had a deviated septum that right before that deployment I had gone to see about surgery to fix it. And they told me I would be down for like two months. So I was like, I'll wait till after deployment. And then. And then obviously they shot my nose off. So I got a brand new nose, thanks to. So if you've ever wondered, wondered about where your tax dollars go, this one made a difference.

[Megyn Kelly]

I have to tell you, I. I've been looking at you and I've been looking at your before pictures and you actually are better looking now. Your nose is obviously a little crooked, but you just look like a little bit more grizzly. I don't like the long hair and the beard and like the eyebrows. So something's working about it. You looked a little bit more clean cut before and this look is a bit, little bit better for like the Navy SEAL who served the. I'm digging it. So I think, I'm sure Erica backs me up on this, but I, I

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

think you look amazing.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

She does. She likes the longer hair and the beard. Thank you, Megan Kelly. I appreciate that.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, it's working for you. It's working for you. I mean, there were easier ways of getting there, but yeah, you managed to find. Find your way through. So can we talk about the time you talk. You. You first. The first thing you said to Erica when you talked to her, because it's sort of to. It evidences your mental state. And while some people thought it was a little. Little surprising, it's a great story about how you telegraphed to her you were fine.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah. So. So I went from Baghdad, where they stabilized and saved my life, to Balad. And then they moved me to Germany. It was in Germany I had some more stabilization surgeries, and one of my teammates flew with me and I, obviously, I could not talk. So Erica had not. And I had not talked at all. She was trying to get everything taken care of with the kids, and. And she knew they had told her approximately when I would get to Bethesda, so she was trying to get ready for that. And so my. My teammate who was there with me was like, do you want to call Erica? And I said, yes, let's do this. I said, you know, you talk to her. I'll write down what to say to her. And so I don't remember the first couple of things might have been, hey, babe, I. I got. I'm sure you've heard, I got all bangers up. And the second thing I said, but my wang's okay. And, and, you know, and military members will fully understand this because, you know, as service members, unfortunately, with IEDs and everything else, I mean, that is a fear, you know, obviously.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

And it was kind of a running joke. So when I told her that, it let her know immediately that, that he's okay. His sense of humor is still intact, so.

[Megyn Kelly]

As is the wang. So good news on multiple fronts.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Absolutely.

[Megyn Kelly]

I love this too. This is from. From your book. When you, when you were talking to Gil, who was the one who was answering the questions for you? Your wife has been notified. I spoke to her myself. I try to not. I want to thank him, but the trach and my wired job preclude that. Gil then adds a response to your third question. Question. And the guys wanted me to tell you, you never look pretty. It's great. It feels good to be insulted at certain low points in your life. It's actually a pick me up.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

It's one of the great. It's one of the things I miss the most now that I'm out of the military, especially this day and age where, like, we've created it once again, the victim mindset, you know, oh, my God, if you say this about me, I must be insulted. Even though half the time people say things that are ingest. Oh, my God, how dare you joke about I don't know anything today. And in the SEAL teams, there's nothing off limits. I mean, we would poke fun at anything and everything, including when I was injured, I got, I mean, one of the guys showed up in the hospital, I'm wired shut with my face blown out and he showed up with beef jerky. So I mean, that's the type of humor and I mean, you know, this life is too short to take yourself that seriously. And that, that's, I miss that the most.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, yeah, I can see why. So you, I mean, we're not going to go through it all, but you did you 39 surgeries?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, 40 when it's all said and done. Although Erica, also known as the long haired Admiral, tells me that the last two don't count because they were kidney stone surgeries. But I'm like, I've had 40 surgeries since I was wounded.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

It.

[Megyn Kelly]

So I mean, was that I, I. Not to ask like another dumb question, but like, was that traumatic? A s, like a surgery of any kind? I just had C sections, but I mean it's traumatic and just that alone, never mind after a massive injury on a battlefield. And you know, this, the emotional trauma of all that, like, how did you handle that many times in and under the knife?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

So it's interesting. I mean, you know, I tell people, once again, a lot of people assume that my battlefield injuries were like the worst thing that ever happened to me. But that failure as a leader, you know, God works in mysterious ways. It prepared me to deal with all this adversity, that journey back, having to take small incremental steps to build back my credibility and reputation, that the leadership lessons that I, I had built in myself and when I was in the hospital, I told myself, hey man, this, this is no different from that journey now. It's a medical journey. I said this Medical buds, which BUDS is the acronym for SEAL Training Basic Underwater Demolition. SEAL training. I said, this is medical buds. You know, you don't have to like it, but you have to do it and we have to go. And I wanted to be operational again. So I knew I had to go through all these surgeries if I even even remotely had a chance at doing that. So every surgery, the doctors used to laugh because literally I would be in the post op and one of my very first questions after they would tell me how the surgery went would be, I'd write out, when can we schedule the next one? Let's get it on the schedule now. Because I wanted to just, you know, churn and burn. I wanted to try and recover as quickly as I could, could, which ended up taking you know, battlefield injuries, really dirty. I had a lot of infection problems. There were a lot of setbacks. I mean, it ended up taking almost four years to put me back together.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I've gotten ahead of myself because immediately post the massive injury, before the 3940 surgeries, I'm kind of with Erica. I don't think we can call the. I don't think we can count the stones. You, you posted the infamous sign. The sign. The famous sign. Not infamous. That cannot. Something bad. And that's how you came to be so memorable. My own life. Hearing that story after meeting you when your face was still pretty banged up was just incredible. I mean it was a true inspiration to me as a human and it's inspired countless of numbers of others since then. So just set the stage, stage for. We're going to read it, but just set the stage for where you were and what made you realize you needed to post a sign like the one we're going to discuss.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

So I'd probably only been in the hospital about a week. I would say seven days, give or take. And, and I will admit I struggled a little bit in the beginning. I think there's this big spike of elation, like I survived and then the reality kind of shut in that I am really messed up. Doctors were telling me it was going to be months to put at a minimum, or let me rephrase that. Doctors were telling me it was going to be years to put me back together, whereas I thought it'd only take a few months. The prognosis was not good. My, my elbow was totally destroyed. I had no use in my left hand. There was massive nerve damage, obviously the massive amount of damage to my face. And I just, I was kind of struggling. I felt like a monster. You know, I was really scared. Before I saw Erica the first time, I was really scared. She is a rock star. That's how she earned her name, the long haired admiral. I mean, she didn't bat an eye, so I had her. But I was kind of struggling with where do I go from here? How do I overcome this, you know, know, pain and I'm disfigured. I felt like I'd be a monster for the rest of my life. And, and I had some individuals that came into the room and we, we had a short conversation and then I, I guess I maybe was drifting off and they were talking amongst themselves. And if any of you have been in that, you know that in between awake and you're not quite asleep, you can still hear Twilight Sounds the TVs. Yeah. Yeah. And I. I caught bits and pieces of their conversation. And. And I don't. I don't fault them. There are some people that are like, how rude. How do. How could they have that conversation in your room? Military hospital is a really hard place to be during a time of war. There are young men and women that are blown apart, missing limbs, traumatic brain injuries. It is very overwhelming to see this many young people. And. And they were there, and I think they were caught up in this. And they started having a conversation about, what a shame, what a pity. We send these young men and women off to war and they come home broken and battered and they'll never be the same. And then they left. And Erica had gone down to get a cup of coffee or something. So I was in my room by myself just thinking about this. It kind of woke me up. And I was. I was both angry and like, is that going to be me? Am I going to be this broken veteran, you know, that is never successful again? Am I going to be like Lieutenant Dan from the movie Forest Gump? You know, the beginning of the movie hookers and booze? Lieutenant Dan. Not. Not. You've got new legs, Lieutenant Dan. And I just. I wrestled with it for a few minutes, and then I went back to everything that I had been through. And when I try to explain to people as that the victim mindset focuses on all the negativity it focuses on. It's unfair, you know, I'm never going to be better. We focus on the immediate here and now, not recognizing that the greatest gift you have in this life is you have a choice. No one forces you to lay there and feel sorry for yourself. I don't care what situation you're in, as long as your brain is still working, working. You have free will, and you have the ability to decide how you're going to handle this situation, no matter how bad and uncomfortable and unpleasant it may be. And it was in that moment when Erica walked back into the room, I said, never again. That is never going to happen again. From this point forward, I will never feel sorry for myself again. And I will not allow anybody else to come in this room and feel sorry for me. And I asked her for my pen and paper, and I wrote out this sign. Sign. And it said, attention to all who enter here. If you're coming in this room with sadness or sorrow, go elsewhere. The wounds I received, I got in a job that I love doing it for people, that I love defending the freedom of a country I deeply love. I will make a full recovery. What is full, that's the absolute utmost. Physically, I have the ability to recover, and I'm gonna push that about 20 further through sheer mental tenacity. This room you're about to enter is room of fun, optimism, and intense rapid regrowth. If you were not prepared for that. And we signed it to management and. And the original sign was put on a regular piece of paper that I had been writing on. But later, Erica went and bought a large. That large orange red piece of poster paper, and we transcribed it word for word, put it on the door. A teammate, tact is tried and into it. And. And a New York firefighter wrote a blog about it, and it went viral. It went all over the place, was all over the news. To date, you know, it has been written about in multiple books. Secretary Robert Gates wrote about it. First Lady Michelle Obama wrote about it twice in her book Becoming Michelle sent me a handwritten note on how much it moved her, and it is now earned me an invitation to the White House to meet President Bush, who signed it. And we had it framed and dedicated. I didn't feel like it was mine. I felt like it belonged to the hospital. And the other one, Wounded warriors. And it now hangs in Walter Reed in the middle of the wounded ward and continues to motivate and inspire other wounded warriors. And now it's been amazing. I mean, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of people who have written me and said, hey, I put your sign on the door. I have cancer. I've been injured, or my kid has been injured, or my kid has cancer. You know, thank you. So you just never know the power of positivity and choosing to drive poor despite the hardship and adversity we face. And that's what that sign is.

[Megyn Kelly]

People will follow if you give them something to follow. Like, who knew. Who knew that maybe your most important role in these conflicts would be helping severely wounded guys coming back with no hope understand that there was a way out. And it began with attitude and the decisions about how you'd handle what happened to you and who would have access to you in this, your most vulnerable time. Right. I mean, I'm sure we have no idea the number of people you've helped, even outside the military, as you point out, people in cancer wards who read that message and remind themselves, I have a choice here. And the choice I make really could be the difference between life and death. It really could.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Well, and to lift up those around you, that was one of my big goals. Like, I wanted to set the example for my kids, I wanted to set the example for Erica. I wanted to set the example for other wounded warriors around me. And I think that's such a powerful thing because you can't. We may not be able to change the situation we're in. You know, we've got to navigate through that. We've got to navigate through the pain and the misery and all the things that were. But we, we definitely, definitely can change. We can be. What I like to say, it's one of the shirts we created. Be the light in the darkness. Be the light, you know, and in those dark times, so many people are waiting for someone else to come save them or someone else to help them. You do it, you know, you do it. You be the light man.

[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

And it'll help.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

It helps with your mindset. You know, you start pouring some positivity into yourself. It's amazing how much it makes an impact. You may not, I try to explain to people that's part of the overcome mindset mindset. And you may not be able to get back what you've lost. I meet so many people who, that's what their focus is like, I want back my health or I want back my relationship or I want back my business or whatever it is I've lost. And that may not be the case, but a willingness to drive forward, you're going to take that, the end moment and create a new beginning.

[Megyn Kelly]

I read in your book about how it was, was when you saw Erica for the first time post injury. And it was actually kind of shocking because you were writing about how unfortunately there are a lot of cases where the wife or the girlfriend comes in and sees the severely injured soldier and pieces right out of there. I mean, that's horrifying. So there was, you know, in the back of your head some concern, you know, given how badly injured you were in the face and so on. And obviously what was going to be ahead of you guys is she going to stick with me. And Erica was, was solid. The, the long haired admiral came through. She came through huge. It wasn't a thing huge. But I, I know you were worried about, you said don't, don't bring the kids right away. Like I don't, I don't want them to see me like this. So how was it? Because obviously when you first saw your kids, you didn't look like you look now. You, you definitely looked closer to right after the injuries. So how did they handle that?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Good. And a lot of that I got to attribute to your know, Eric and I were really locked on. I mean, I think that's one of the as, as a couple, your ability to be unified in, in your decision making. And you know, her and I discussed how, how would we handle this. You know, it's been something that's been a common theme throughout our marriage. So much so. 99% of first off, seals have almost a 90% divorce rate. Special operations, pretty close.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Guys who are wounded have almost a 99%. It's just very hard on families to, to sustain these type of injuries. And Eric and I talked. Okay, well, how are we going to manage this? One of the things we said, and we were fortunate enough to have family to help, we weren't going to change the kids schedules, so the kids schedules were going to stay the same. We had family that came in. If they had dance and soccer her in school, they were going to be there. So they would be home. Erica stayed up at the hospital on the weekends. Family would bring. Not in the beginning. I didn't see the kids for probably three weeks. And there were several things that I told. I said I wanted one. I was really. Some of the original pictures are not out there. I think if you dig deep enough, there's some surgical journals that have pictures of me in it. But. But my head swelled almost to like the size of a basketball. I looked pretty grotesque. You know, stitches just stretched on my face. And I told Erica I didn't want the kids to see me until they had done some more surgeries and some of the swelling had gone down and I was in, you know, ICU at the beginning. I also did not want them to come into the room. I wanted to walk into the room where the kids were. I wanted it to be like a family room, the room. And I wanted to walk in. So that was my goal, to get well enough and strong enough that I could get up and walk into the room. So that took about three weeks. And then the other thing, Erica was super smart. She. She knew the kids wanted different toys that they had talked about. I mean, it's now September, so she went and you know, normally they would have had to wait till Christmas, but she went and bought. Thought my son wanted a, A Nintendo ds. One of the girls wanted a baby doll. I can't remember what the other. What Sierra wanted, but. But Erica went and bought those things for them and then had me give them to them in the room that I walked into with them. So. And, And I tell you what that I learned over the next couple of years. People often Talk about unconditional love. And I think, I think you can build unconditional love with your spouse, but you learn what unconditional love is through your children. Your children have unconditional love for their parents, especially when they're young. You are their world. And even though I looked messed up, my kids love me. And there was a lot of healing that occurred over the. Those couple of years, especially with my youngest daughter because my, my middle daughter and my son, they went back to school by the time I got home. But my youngest, she was only 3, so she was home with me and she became, and I had not been around her whole life and she became my little buddy. She would climb into bed with me as I recovered and we'd watch cartoons and, and man, I think that was very healing for me. I needed that because I was so worried about would my kids be afraid of me and the way I look and you know, they just. I'll never forget I went to pick my kids up at school one day and my daughter was like five, she's in kindergarten. Somebody was like, what happened to your dad? And my daughter, matter of fact was like, he got shot up. He got all shot up. He's fine though, you know, I mean, just of a five year old. Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know, especially when they're young, young they have that healing power and there is something almost angelic about them in moments and I really believe. It's like someone said it to me this way and it made sense. They're closer to the other side than we are. They're still closer to the other side and I think they still have that sort of halo effect around them and on us. There is something sort of magical about really young kids. When you're down, you're blue, you're struggling. And I'm so glad that was. You're so lucky to have your 3 year old with you during those moments. I'm sure she was a healing bomb. The, the rock star Erica too. Those are all great stories about her and I'm so glad. Thank God this doesn't end with. And she just left. You're still together, you're still right. The family's still intact.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah, I mean I gotta, I mean. And such a credit to her. You know, she became my best nurse even though I had nurse in home, nurses in between surgeries. You know, for the first eight or nine months I was a mess. I'm in a wheelchair, I've got metal hardware coming out of my arm. What's called an external fixator. I was Trached for seven months and two days. They were feeding me through a stomach tube. Erica was doing those things. She was helping to clean my trach. She's drying up meds and grinding up food so that I can, I could eat. And, and I, I recognized the burden. I mean, I became like a fourth child to her to take care of me. And I, and I'm just so thankful how strong she was because never once did she ever say, why did you do this to us? Why did you pick this job that, you know, that this happened? Because that would have been devastating. And if she thought it, she never said it. So, man, she is a, a leader in herself. And we're an amazing team. Really excited right now. We are working on, we're almost done with a relationship book called Invincible Marriage, because it's a question so many people have. How did you do it? You guys made it through a special operations career. You made it through wounding. We've run a business together. We've had business failures together. We have three amazing kids, you know, so, yeah, I'm really excited to get that book out there and hopefully help others, others, you know, build a strong invincible marriage also.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, my gosh. You both are welcome on the show when it hits. I would love to help you promote that. I feel like everybody will buy that. That's such a great, I mean, think of how we tell ourselves, we, outside of your marriage, tell ourselves, oh, this is really hard. Oh, he didn't empty the dishwasher. Oh, it's annoying. You know, he didn't show me enough emotional availability. This is what, you know, you hear. My God, you don't even understand what the challenges are. I had no idea about the divorce rate amongst the wounded. I want to ask you, in the time we have left, I would be remiss if I skipped the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan because everyone who served there, like yourself, had some thoughts on it and some had some real trauma when we, when it happened and just sort of the abandonment of it. Of the translators you mentioned, that was one of the guys with you in Iraq when you got hurt, how did you process that whole thing?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Well, I got involved as much as I could. I think, I think that's going to be viewed and in my opinion, probably one of the greatest failures. I, I, I think the way we withdrew from Iraq was poorly done, which in my opinion, directly led to the creation of ISIS in Iraq. And then we repeated the exact same thing, except at a exponential scale in Afghanistan. And in Afghanistan, I think we had done so much of a better job, you know, helping the people. There were so many people that had embraced this newfound freedom apart from the rule of the Taliban. I mean, there were women in leadership position, there were women in political positions, there were women leaders in the military. Commerce was starting to grow and thrive in Afghanistan again, again. And we had basically convinced these people like, hey, a free democratic Afghanistan is a, is a real thing. And yeah, when we pulled out of there in the way that we did, I mean, just, I, I don't understand. I don't know. I mean, you can't tell me that there weren't senior political leaders who were saying, this is not going to end well. Well, why we didn't maintain forces in Bagram. We knew Bagram, Bagram was protected. Why? How did we ever agree to allow the Taliban to provide some level of security? How did we ever, you know, who in their right mind allowed this to occur with, you know, American citizens that were left behind? I mean, trying to get people into the Karzai airport. That's how I got involved. Lt. Col. Scott Mann had created a group to try and help. He wanted to get his interpreter out. And there were a lot of special operations guys, Chad Robichau, Tim Kennedy, a lot of these guys did amazing things. I ended up working with Scott and we were trying to get people out of Afghanistan and we saw firsthand the chaos and the disorganization and the mass confusion by the US Government. You know, the focus began became we're just to going to get the military out and ignoring all these US Citizens and most importantly, the individuals who had been processed Afghan Afghans who had sacrificed their lives to protect us and work with us, who had lost family members and risked their lives, who had been told, you're going to get a special immigrant visa and you're going to be able to come to the United States. When all of this was transpiring, that the Taliban was going to take back over, which had issues with in the first place. Why did we turn the country back over to the exact same terrorist group that we, that we were fighting against for 20 years? I mean, it's mind blowing, mind blowing.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's infuriating and I think it will

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

impact our national security collection abilities for decades to come. Because who in their right mind is going to want to work with America and risk their lives to help us collect intelligence when they're going to go, I'm not going to work with you guys. If anything goes wrong, you're just going to sell me out to dry and I'm going to be killed. We sent such a negative message across the world. I think it was such a poor display of leadership. I think it was just straight up anti American.

[Megyn Kelly]

It was traumatic for so many guys who served. Like, what. What was I there for? What did. What did my friends die for? What, you know, what did I. I mean, you were in Iraq, but same similar question, like what? I get blown up for what? You know, what? We just tucked tail and ran at the end. I don't know. I still think the way I process it from over here, you guys kept us safe for 20 years. You know, remember how afraid we were after 9, 11 we were going to get attacked again. Kept us safe for 20 years. And we're still safe. We're still safe because of what you did over there. It was not all for naught, though. It was terribly, terribly handled. And even before the withdrawal, there is a lot of criticism to be leveled, but that the withdrawal was just a stain. It was just a stain on, on our, on our leadership, not on our guys.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

No. And I'm just gonna say, I mean, I never once have ever thought, oh, my God, what a waste. I mean, you know, the mission that we did was, you know, we. We helped a lot of people. We definitely got rid a lot of very bad people who, given the opportunity, would gladly do bad things here in our own country and even in other countries abroad. So, yeah, I definitely tell fellow veterans, don't ever think that what we did absolutely made a difference. It's unfortunate the way it ended, but, you know, I'm proud of the time that I had to serve over there and, and hopefully make a small difference in Afghanistan and Iraq and beyond.

[Megyn Kelly]

Beyond. So now, how old are you?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

I turned 48 next week.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, you're still a spring chicken. You're. You're a young guy.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

You got Erica, you got your three kids.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Yeah.

[Megyn Kelly]

And your. Your career is as a motivational speaker, as an author. How's that going? Are you paying the bills with that? You feel like things are going well?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

They are. I mean, the demand is high. I mean, you know, I think the message I deliver is very needed. And I think companies recognize that. I mean, a combination of coming out of the COVID era and also into just society as a whole. My message is on self leadership. How do we lead ourselves to be successful, how do we build better teams, how do we build more positive culture within companies? And then how do we find balance in this crazy world that we're living in? And then all about the resilience and grit. I teach something called Getting off the X. It's one of the foundational principles in my Overcome book. I'm now teaching the Appointment for Life program, which is a structured process of building long term goal setting and understanding based on your values, what your mission or purpose is in this life, with kind of a special operations twist. And then of course, we have the relationship book coming and then something I've started working on. We just concluded our most recent Overcome and Survive workshop. A lot of my teammates have a lot of experience and they are training law enforcement and national organization, military organizations and tactical abilities. But I keep meeting average everyday Americans who are like, I'm scared for the future. Like, I wish I knew how to better defend myself in this dangerous world where every time we turn around there's a, a mass shooting or God forbid something happened to my family. How do I, how do I, you know, save them? How do I know basic first aid or, you know, God forbid society, you know, collapsed, or at least we lost.

[Megyn Kelly]

If I take this course, you're not going to throw me in the ocean and hose me down with a, with a hose and tell me to find Northwest, are you?

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

No. No, there's not. As a matter of fact, it was funny. We have people signing up for the course. I had to put it right on the website. Overcome and survive.com. we do not yell at you. You're not. We want to take the average everyday American and make them better. That's it. And to give them a basic level of preparation so that they can overcome and survive if something bad happens. And, and I've really enjoyed that. I met people from all across this country have come to these courses and I'm, and I'm doing it with some of my former teammates, with Jay and some of the guys that were in the gunfight with me. And it's pretty neat to be able to say, you know, out of the. This, we're able to teach you this so that hopefully you can protect your family.

[Megyn Kelly]

It keeps the brotherhood connected. That's so important for you guys. I know there's such a unique bond and if you don't nurture it, maybe you lose it and it just becomes a memory, which is not okay. I want to tell our audience that the book that talks about Jay's experience is called the Trident. And then you heard him reference his second book, which is called Overcome Crush Adversary Adversity with Leadership Techniques of America's Toughest Warriors. And we will look forward to the, the third book, which is the relationship one and we'll have you back on for that. Lieutenant Jason Redmond, I'm moved. I'm inspired. I'm excited for what comes next in your life and to read your next writing. And I just wish all my best to you and your family. I know my audience is joining me right now in thanking you, Thanking you, thanking you so much for your service, your sacrifice, that of your family as well. They do the same in their own ways. And we appreciate you. God bless you, my honor.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, such an inspiring guest. He's amazing, isn't he? Go to Jason Redman R d m a n.com to find out much, much more about Jason, about his books, about his courses, everything, everything. Jason Redmond, well worth your time. Today I join you in remembering all of the men and women who have served our country and also thinking of and thanking our current military members serving today. So good, so good, so good.

[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Lt. Jason C. Redmond]

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[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Retired US Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee]

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