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The Megyn Kelly Show
Mysterious Phone Call, New Leads - Part 3 of Megyn Kelly Investigates: Baby Lisa's Disappearance | Ep. 1024
00:40:22
In part three of Megyn Kelly Investigates on the disappearance of Baby Lisa Irwin, Megyn Kelly digs into the mystery of the phone call that we know went from a phone stolen from the Baby Lisa household to Megan Wright, we hear from Megan Wright on what that might have been about, what John "Jersey" Tanko had to say about the stolen phones, what police may know that they aren't saying, and law enforcement experts Phil Houston and Bill Stanton give their analysis on the case and the series. Find out more and watch all episodes here: https://www.megynkelly.com/2025/03/10/megyn-kelly-investigates-the-disappearance-of-baby-lisa-irwin/ Done with Debt: https://www.DoneWithDebt.com/ Grand Canyon University: https://GCU.edu
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- [00:00]
Advertiser
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Megyn Kelly
I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and episode three of our special series, Megyn Kelly Investigates on the disappearance of baby Lisa. Nearly 13 years ago in Kansas City, Missouri, Lisa Irwin, a 10 month old baby girl, vanished in the middle of the night. What could have possibly happened to her? One man emerges who might have some answers. Four years of crushing interest rates, runaway inflation and reckless government spending. And who is paying the price? You are. You might have bills stacking up. You might have debt collectors on your back. You might barely be able to keep food on the table. And that's stressful. Done With Debt can be a way out. These guys have developed a new aggressive strategy, many of them actually designed to get you out of debt permanently. Without bankruptcy and without loans. Done With Debt will stand between you and your bill collectors. They can go head to head with their creditors, getting your balances reduced, your interest rates slashed and penalties stopped. They create a plan to end your debt fast and put more cash in your pocket every month. And right now, Done With Debt is accepting new clients. But you need to act fast. Some of these credit relief programs expire before you make another payment. Consider a visit to donewithdebt.com or call 1-888-322-1054 right now. Speak with one of their debt relief strategists for free, but go to donewithdebt.com that's donewithdebt.com here's where we are. After a $100,000 reward was posted and the widespread pursuit of an unknown man walking with a baby, two people of interest emerged. James Brando, who lived next door to Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin and who had split up with his wife, Samantha earlier that day. Samantha, you may remember, was drinking with Deborah on Deborah's front stoop the night Baby Lisa went missing. Brando was investigated and ultimately ruled out. That left John Jerzy Tanko, the handyman with a history of drug abuse, arson and break ins who was working nearby. As we learned in our last episode, he had an ex girlfriend who he may have believed wanted a baby. Her name is Megan Wright. Was Tanko trying to bring Megan a baby in the hopes of getting back together? And now we turn to perhaps the most crucial clue in this case. Remember those three cell phones on the Irwin's kitchen counter taken the night that Lisa was? Two of them had restrictions for non payment. But right near midnight, there was an attempted phone call from the one phone that worked. It was to a cell phone that was less than a mile away and it lasted 50 seconds. So what did the cops say to you about that piece of evidence, Lisa's father, Jeremy Irwin?
- [03:21]
Advertiser
So they told me that there was a phone call from one of Deborah's phones. And we were able to get the records from that phone line. Went back over three years. And I myself, hand by hand went over every number in the whole, the whole thing. And that was the first time in which that number had ever popped up.
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Megyn Kelly
I mean, and that's our best lead. Law enforcement went right to work on tracing that call. It went to a phone that belonged to Megan Wright. Yes, the same Megan Wright who had recently split up with Jersey, AKA John Tanko. Now I'm learning that that mystery phone.
- [04:01]
Megan Wright
Call was made to the handyman's ex girlfriend.
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Jeremy Irwin
We told you last week about that phone call. It was placed to a phone belonging.
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Advertiser
To a woman named Megan Wright.
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Megyn Kelly
How much contact did you have with Jersey on the day or the evening that baby Lisa went missing? Megan Wright?
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Megan Wright
None. I hadn't. He and I hadn't been together for over a month at that point. And I had seen him and spoke to him prior to that, but nothing on the day of.
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Megyn Kelly
Megan was 20 at that time and had moved to Kansas City earlier that year. She told us she had been in an abusive relationship, left it, lived for a time at a domestic violence shelter and after that was moving from group home to group home, temporary living situations. She says she met Tanko at one of them.
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Megan Wright
It was probably two months into to us meeting and hanging out together that I learned that he was selling, that he was bringing drugs to that house to the other people that lived there. And that's when I was invited to snort a line of meth for the first time. And I did. You know, that was the first time I'd ever, ever done it. And I was at this horrible point in my life and drinking too much pretty much every day. Not the best of decisions, but it wasn't a far step from where I was at. So that was the first time I ever got hot on anything, you know what I mean? It was a life changing experience that I never saw coming for myself.
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Megyn Kelly
By the time of Lisa's disappearance, Megan had become a full on methamphetamine addict and was trying to stay away from Tanko. The very last time she saw him, Megan says Tanko scared her.
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Megan Wright
The last time was when he had the van and almost hit the porch. He aggressively left the road, drove into the grass of the yard and almost clipped the porch as he parked the car to or the van to run up the stairs to try and get in the house to get me. That's the last time that I had any type of contact with him. And like I said, it was from 20ft away with four or five people in between us that we had any contact.
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Megyn Kelly
And this is prior to Lisa's disappearance?
- [06:31]
Megan Wright
Yeah.
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Megyn Kelly
Megan moved to a house on 44th in Brighton, a little over a mile away from the Irwin house.
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Megan Wright
I had moved there in fear of John because he kept coming back to that house where I had originally met him, where I was living at the time. He would not leave me alone after I broke up with him.
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Megyn Kelly
By her account, it was a trap house, a drug den, and her contribution to the household was to let people use her phone.
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Megan Wright
Living in a trap house, what you can provide is everything. Like I said, having the phone and paying the bill every month, that was one thing I could provide to everybody in the house. Now everybody has access to a cell phone with Internet. When you're desperate and you're 20 years old and you're just trying not to die, you'll do anything to stay anywhere that's not outside, which is where the only place I had to go.
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Megyn Kelly
Why would anyone involved in the disappearance of baby Lisa call your cell phone the night baby Lisa went missing?
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Megan Wright
I have no idea. It's hard for me to say. I had only had that number. It was like a Verizon prepaid phone for about six months. I still got calls for other people, whoever had had the number prior. There were several people that used my phone in the house that I lived in on a regular basis so there would be calls coming in for those people.
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Megyn Kelly
On the night Lisa went missing, October 3, Megan says she left her phone on an upstairs table.
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Megan Wright
I was in that house in the basement, getting high in the very early morning hours of October 3rd for the last time of my life. So I know exactly where I was at after I left there. It was probably 3:30 or so. In the morning, I went to the Waffle House with one of the girls that was getting high with me at the. At the house there.
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Megyn Kelly
Okay, and so you, and you left that house, but you left your cell phone behind at the drug house?
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Megan Wright
Yes, I left my phone there and there were people that were using it throughout the evening. So we had dinner or breakfast, whatever, went to Walmart, did our shopping, checked out after food stamps hit at 6 in the morning. I probably got back to the house seven or eight in the morning, and that's when I was handed my phone that had been cleared of texts and call logs and told, hey, somebody said the FBI had called your phone. And I had no idea what was happening at that point. That's when I turned the news on and was able to see the broadcast of her missing.
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Megyn Kelly
Did you say who picked it up? Let me talk to the person who talked to the FBI.
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Megan Wright
That's what I said. I said, who? Who had my phone? Who was using it?
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Megyn Kelly
Who were they talking to at that time? Megan says she was told that Dane Greathouse, a man staying in her same house that night, had her phone and describe Dane for us.
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Megan Wright
I didn't know him very well. He had been like I said we were. I was living at a trap house. He had been in and out for about a two week period prior to that day. So I had seen him. I had been like kind of informally introduced to him, but we never really hung out together in the house.
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Megyn Kelly
How old would you say he was?
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Megan Wright
Maybe a few years older than me at that point. 24, 25, I think.
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Megyn Kelly
A month after Lisa went missing, Dane had a text exchange with a Kansas City TV reporter and denied any connection with Megan Wright or the missing child. But he did say that he had used her phone.
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Jim Spellman
I used Megan's cell phone to have.
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Megyn Kelly
My phone turned on and some rides lined up being texted when our producer talked with him. Greathouse said he did not really know Megan Wright, but did confirm that they both stayed at the same house for a few nights. The House on 44th in Brighton. Greathouse said Megan did indeed share her phone with everyone there. And he told us that he used her phone three times to make calls, but says he never once answered it. The public records only tell half the story.
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Megan Wright
I tried to get all those records to be preemptive about it because if the FBI called my phone, I want to know why. That's not something that happens to anybody in their regular life.
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Megyn Kelly
Megan Wright tells us that terrible night for the Irwins was a big turning point. In her life too. She says the very next morning, she began to get her act together.
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Megan Wright
And I decided in that moment never getting high again. So October 4th is my first day sober. 2011. I've been sober since.
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Megyn Kelly
About a week later, she says the FBI brought her in for questioning.
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Megan Wright
So when it was a couple of days later, at that point the FBI stopped me and take me in for questioning. They connected all the dots and confirmed that they had attempted to call my phone on the evening of because they had gotten the call records from the Irwin's phone and they were just trying to call the number back immediately. That's why my phone was called.
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Megyn Kelly
What was your reaction when they told you?
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Megan Wright
I was terrified.
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Megyn Kelly
Terrified.
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Megan Wright
At this point, I was a week sober.
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Megyn Kelly
And once they were done asking her about her own possible involvement, they grilled her about her ex, Tenko.
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Megan Wright
He definitely knew my number by heart because he called me from multiple phones all the time. Like I said, when we first got. When we were first talking, he didn't have a phone. He had just gotten out of jail, was living at the honor center and was trying to get back on his feet. And then he was so devastated when I rejected him and left him and told him why. You know, you're not the type of man I can have family with, and that's what I want in my life. And I don't know if the way I delivered it or the circumstances surrounding our breakup or if drugs had anything to do with it on his part at that point, but he just revolted. Everything in him hated me after that. And the more that I told him, I don't want to talk to you, I don't want to see you, don't come around here. You know, we're not getting back together. It just was so constant with him until I left the city.
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Megyn Kelly
Did you know that he was a. A burglar at the time?
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Megan Wright
No. I've seen his arrest reports and stuff since he and I broke up and have learned a lot more about him.
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Megyn Kelly
What month was the breakup in 2011?
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Megan Wright
Was after Easter that year. I want to say it was like May or June before the 4th of July because I didn't end up going to my family's fourth of July party that year because I was upset about the breakup.
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Megyn Kelly
Okay. And do you have any reason to believe he stopped using meth at any point in 2011?
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Megan Wright
I have no idea. Like I said, after I broke up with him, I tried my very best not to have contact with him, especially in person, because he made me incredibly Nervous this. I have a lot of PTSD from the things that he put me through that I've tried really hard to work through over the years. But there's a lot of it I can't, I, you know, I can't let go of. I can't forget being that afraid.
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Megyn Kelly
Were you thinking, you know, this guy's kind of crazy, could have been him?
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Megan Wright
Yes, I definitely thought this guy is crazy and that he was horrible to me, traumatized me, but I have no idea what he's capable of again.
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Megyn Kelly
Reporter Jim Spellman.
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Advertiser
I think if you start to look past the family, it's likely that it's somebody who at least knew the neighborhood to know that this baby was in this house. And so he's somebody that absolutely is top of mind, if not a suspect because he's another person that the police said that they moved on from, that perhaps somebody in his world might know something more.
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Megyn Kelly
The phones and the phone use continued to be a mystery. At 3:17am one of the phones tried to access voicemail. Now, why would that be? Five minutes later, at 3.22am there was an attempt to use the phone's web browser. As I reported for Fox News back then, Deborah's attorney said there were five attempts made to get online via the phone and the phones never got more than a third of a mile away from the house on North Lister. And remember this from our last episode. If it really was the same man with a baby that the Parscals and Mike Thompson saw that night, he would have spent nearly four hours within a three mile radius of baby Lisa's home. You would think, okay, let's see who's on the other end of that number. And that was Megan Wright's phone. So, okay, boom, we're off to the races. Megan Wright knows the abductor. Not that simple. Reporter Jim Spellman.
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Advertiser
Not that simple at all. First off, I don't believe the police have released the full records of those phones involved. And I think that that is information that they have purposely withheld to be able to use to their advantage in their investigation. So we know that at least one of those phones was used. At least one call to Megan Wright's phone.
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Megyn Kelly
You spoke with her a lot. Do you believe her claims that she did not have the phone when that number was dialed and that she had nothing to do with this?
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Advertiser
I believe every single thing that Megan Wright told me within her ability to remember things, but I don't think that she was making up any of it. She was very helpful throughout the Entire thing. If she tried to help us meet people, she would give us phone numbers of people. She never asked me for anything the whole time that we were doing this. And I think that she is exactly who she says she is. A troubled person, absolutely. But not somebody who had any direct involvement in this.
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Megyn Kelly
Meanwhile, Kansas City attorney Cindy Short was working hard to find answers. Even after she was off the legal team after 10 days, she says she and lead attorney Joe Tacopina parted company in a dispute over strategy. But Cindy continued to look for Tanko. And now she's going to tell us something she has never before shared publicly. And it's fascinating. A day or two after she left the case, Cindy found John Tanko in the Clay County Jail north of Kansas City. And she interviewed him for 10 hours over a two day period. What he told her could change the entire trajectory of this investigation, set the scene for us. Like, was it hard? Did he come right out to talk to you?
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Cindy Short
He did come right out to meet with me. And I think probably out of curiosity, I introduced myself and I told him who I was and what I was doing and that I had been working on the Baby Lisa case. That I was no longer representing Deborah. And then I had some questions about him and his role in the neighborhood and hope that maybe he could help me if he was willing to talk about it.
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Megyn Kelly
And you're face to face. There's no. There's no glass between you.
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Megan Wright
No glass.
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Cindy Short
And he's a small guy.
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Megyn Kelly
Does he look disheveled? Is he a good looking man? What is he? How would you describe?
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Cindy Short
He was tough looking. He looked like a sophisticated consumer of the criminal justice system. He looked like someone who had had a rough life. He was cautious, I think, as he should have been.
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Megyn Kelly
But Cindy says he was forthcoming and emotional about his troubled childhood.
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Cindy Short
It was an interesting roller coaster of emotion where he was sometimes stoic. There were times, quite honestly, where he was in tears. It was confusing in some ways. I was trying to use my best persuasive skills to help convince him to maybe bring closure to a family if he could. I tried to get him to tell me where he was on October 3rd and 4th, and he didn't think that would be in his best interest.
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Megyn Kelly
And then a stunning confession.
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Cindy Short
He did tell me, though, that he had found three cell phones and he told me where he had found them. He also claimed to have told the police that he had found three cell phones.
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Megyn Kelly
This is extraordinary. The three cell phones went missing from baby Lisa's house on the night she was Taken. And now he's telling you. And there's. The reason we know his name to begin with is, yes, neighbors had said he was in the area, is kind of a sketchy character. But the reason we know his name is because we have a phone bill that shows one of the Irwin's three cell phones called Megan Wright.
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Cindy Short
Yes.
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Megyn Kelly
And so once again, it's a link potentially back to Jersey. And now he's telling you they never found the cell phones. He's telling you he found them.
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Cindy Short
Yes, yes. And he's telling me where. Which is not very far from the house. So he's placing himself not just the proximity of the phones, but in possession of the phones. He's claiming that he's with another woman at the time that they find the phones. He tells me where they are. Under this bridge at 210 and North Brighton. And in fact, this is when I employed one of my investigators with a dog to go down to that location. And he went so far as to tell me that the car that he was in with this woman had a leak and that I would be able to find a stain on the road where they had stopped. And we did find a stain, but, you know, roads have stains. So we went down there with the dog. And under this bridge there is a culvert. And so there is water there, but it's very low water because at one point he had talked about throwing the phones into a pond. He'd also talked about the phones being in this woman's car, but just to.
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Megyn Kelly
Back up, just to back up. So he's saying, there we are having some car trouble, get out of the car, and boom, three cell phones. And I was just guessing that these belong to Deborah and Jeremy. Like, does he offer any reason why he knows it's those phones?
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Cindy Short
He just told me there were three cell phones on the side of the road. Now, he's not telling me that they're Jeremy and. But I think the connection would be that if he.
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Megyn Kelly
It's three cell phones that are sitting there together.
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Cindy Short
Yes, three cell phones sitting there together. Now, at some point he had, you know, he tried to tell me that I don't steal cell phones. But the thing about it is, a thief, if you're going to go into a house to steal stuff, which this guy does, then you're going to steal things you can sell really easily. Cell phones, guns, any kind of electronics, things you can pick up easily, throw them in your pockets. These three cell phones were sitting on a counter in the kitchen so it would have been for a burglar coming into the home through the front door or through that window, the phones would have been right there.
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Megyn Kelly
But keep in mind Jersey's drug use and his rap sheet. How reliable was he? Was he playing games with Cindy, trying to get information from her to see what she and investigators knew? It is extraordinary that in his time with you, he volunteered that he spent time with these cell phones that even he is seems to be suggesting are related to the case. Yeah, like the fact, I think Phil Houston would say that's a liar who doesn't know what you know about what connections he has. You know, admitting just so much just to see, you know, believing himself. Escape routes. Right. So maybe he could get some more information from you or just in case you knew more than he thought you did.
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Cindy Short
Right, right.
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Megyn Kelly
That must have been chilling. I mean, was that chilling, Cindy, when he admitted that. Yes, I take it that was the most shocking revelation that he copped to finding three mysterious cell phones shortly after baby Lisa went missing. Like how close in time it was.
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Cindy Short
Right in that timeframe. It was right when it happened and.
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Megyn Kelly
But yet didn't want to give you the timeline on what he did the night she went missing, thinking that wasn't going to land in a good place. Because she was building trust, still hoping for a confession, and because she had also offered to represent him, Cindy maintained client attorney confidentiality and did not bring this new information to police or to the new legal team representing Debra. John Picerno replaced Cindy as Joe Tacopina's local counsel. According to him, those three phones have never been found.
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Advertiser
They were trying to locate the cell phones by the pings on the cell phone towers. Geographically, you know, when they do their triangulation, it's not specific. It came out to an area that's a large wooded area which did receive quite a bit of interest from law enforcement. They did a couple of searches there from Missouri missing as well with citizens in that area. But nothing ever really came from the cell phones.
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Megyn Kelly
Missy Rasmussen and Jackie Heller are Kansas City moms who are co authoring a book about this case. You know, there's been speculation that the phones maybe were discarded by the real kidnapper and then just found by somebody who then called that number. How do you gals like that theory?
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Cindy Short
I think it's just as viable as any other theory. The phones do not make sense. I think it's almost impossible to make.
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Megyn Kelly
Sense of the phones to this day. It's an open question. Why does a one step above homeless guy steal A baby. It's not like there's some known black market for babies that. I mean, that would be something so sophisticated to get your, you know, foot into. He wouldn't have that.
- [25:10]
Cindy Short
Right.
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Megyn Kelly
So it's to what end, again? Reporter Jim Spellman.
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Advertiser
That's what I've come back to over and over again, is to what end? And you're absolutely right. There's no way that somebody like Jersey or this guy Dane Greathouse also had a lot of legal problems as well, that these are not the kind of characters who would be likely to be involved in some sort of high dollar, you know, baby stealing ring or something like that, if that even exists. It's incredibly uncommon. And that these guys would somehow get involved with it seems, you know, incredibly unlikely.
- [25:46]
Megyn Kelly
Cindy Short keeps coming back to her time with Jersey. When they talked about his childhood, he told her he was put in a boy's home at age 10 and was later institutionalized. To deal, he said, with his pyromania and impulse control problems.
- [26:01]
Cindy Short
The other thing that was chilling for me were the tears. It felt to me like there was this. We were right on the tip of him wanting to tell me something, but he couldn't. And I didn't have the kind of leverage that police have. There was nothing I could give, you know, there was nothing I could use to. Other than the goodness of his heart.
- [26:35]
Megyn Kelly
Do you think he was thinking about confessing?
- [26:38]
Cindy Short
That felt that way. And I walked away from it feeling that way. You are just almost there.
- [26:48]
Megyn Kelly
I'm joined now by my partners in crime, if you will, longtime CIA interrogator and human lie detector Phil Houston and ex NYPD and security expert Bill Stanton. All right, guys, let's talk about Cindy Short. We were just almost there. She said this information about a jailhouse meeting with John Tanko is incredible. No, Agreed.
- [27:10]
Jim Spellman
If that is the case, if that is a fact, that is as close to a smoking gun as this case has come to at this point, 100%.
- [27:20]
Megyn Kelly
Moving on to the call to Megan Wright's phone. This is critical. Phil and Bill, you watched my entire interview with Megan Wright. It went on for much longer than the excerpts that we've put in this series. She's had a hard life. She was very emotional throughout the two hours. Here she is talking about losing custody of her child.
- [27:39]
Megan Wright
All right, this is the hardest part to talk about for me because not only was my life affected, my child's life was too, because I didn't have the mental capacity to care for either one of us, which is why I was charged with the endangering the welfare of a child, was for medical neglect. I was dealing with manic episodes, and I was partum depression and still didn't have very much family support. His father was already out of the picture. And in the state of Missouri, instead of getting me psychiatric help or ordering psychiatric help, they brought me into the judicial system and charged me with a felony, then served two years in prison.
- [28:35]
Megyn Kelly
How do you feel about it now, looking back at, you know, the way you were taking care of him?
- [28:41]
Megan Wright
I just regret the fact I didn't have the support that I needed. So shortly after getting out of the mental hospital, out of addiction, out of an abusive relationship, out of being traumatized for two months after being railroaded in the media, questioned by the FBI, dropped by your family, losing everything you've ever owned in your own life, and then getting pregnant was the only reason I didn't kill myself. And then to lose custody of him 10 months later, it has really affected my will to live.
- [29:22]
Megyn Kelly
He was underweight. Is that what he was? Underweight? Severely.
- [29:28]
Megan Wright
Can we not talk about this? This is the worst thing in my life, and you're just dwelling on it, and I really don't appreciate it. I'm trying to participate for the sake of baby Lisa, not to focus on the worst thing in my life, the most embarrassing thing.
- [29:46]
Megyn Kelly
She was very emotional right from the start, and I was moved by it. It seemed like real emotion to me.
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Phil Houston
Yeah. It was not. Megan.
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Megyn Kelly
Most of was not. Is that what you just said?
- [29:58]
Phil Houston
Yeah. Yeah. She's a master at turning on and.
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Megyn Kelly
Off the tears at some point, Phil, she was, like, shaking. She was almost hyperventilating. You know, she was, like, trying to get her Megan.
- [30:11]
Phil Houston
When you hear Megan, right, It's hard to not hear and feel badly for her when you can. When she speaks about the trials and challenges that she's faced during her life. If you're looking at her from the deception detection standpoint, what you see is. Is that she's using these trials and challenges to hide something. You know, every time you ask a question, you see what we call the trifecta of deception, which is evasion, persuasion, and aggression. So she doesn't give you what you ask for. She then uses her trials and tribulations to convince you that there's no reason in the world why she should be suspected. And then she blames somebody else. She attacked somebody else. The number of people that she attacked. She attacked Jersey. She attacked the FBI, she attacked the police, she attacked the public, she attacked friends and she attacked you. And, and you know, that's her way of trying to get people to back off. She wants you to feel bad about her so that by the time she's done, you don't even remember the question. The other thing that, that she does that's very, very interesting is she gave us many what we call truth in the lie. For example, when she says, what I'm really trying to do is get everyone to focus on Lisa and not me. Now think about that. If you're someone that's trying to, you know, avoid disclosing something, which he's really saying is, I'm trying to, you know, keep the light off of me.
- [32:10]
Megyn Kelly
So what does that tell you? I mean, I know the obvious well, that she's lying, but I mean, what.
- [32:16]
Phil Houston
Yeah. Why she is protecting herself from whatever she knows about Lisa's disappearance. She is protecting Jersey in a crazy way. And what I mean by crazy way, I don't think she has a great. Any longer. She has a great affinity for Jersey. I think she fears him.
- [32:39]
Megyn Kelly
But do you, having listened to it, Phil, do you have a takeaway on whether she was the phone holder that night?
- [32:48]
Phil Houston
I have a strong sense that she left her phone there or gave it to someone. In other interviews she has said that she deliberately left her phone there so other people could use it that night. And I really didn't need it. And so I have a feeling there was an ulterior motive for why she left the phone there and didn't need it.
- [33:14]
Megyn Kelly
And you're going like full bore against her. You're so under your theory, is she. She wanted the baby. She was in on the baby plot. She gave the phone to somebody else so that she wouldn't be on her. And she intentionally went to Waffle House, Walmart so she wouldn't be near anyone.
- [33:31]
Phil Houston
I'm not convinced, Megan, that, that, that it is a baby plot for her. I'm not convinced about it all. I think she knows either beforehand or after the fact what happened.
- [33:45]
Jim Spellman
Now, Megan, I can imagine your audience is not going to be happy with what Phil says, but Phil is not called upon to make people happy. Phil is called upon to detect deception. So while people may be saying, you know, how can he talk this way? No, no, no. He's putting his emotion aside.
- [34:06]
Megyn Kelly
What would a truth teller have sounded like?
- [34:11]
Phil Houston
Megan, it's, it's. It's impossible to know because what I would submit to you is the focus would be on the. The. I didn't do it. In the worst case scenario, she could have been the reason the baby's missing to begin with. If you think about Megan and trying to convince the world that she's not involved. The same coincidental nature of her saying, on that very night, I decided it was either very day or that very night, I decided that I'm going to go sober.
- [34:48]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. All right. I'm going to admit that stood out at me.
- [34:52]
Phil Houston
So powerful. Why on earth was it so powerful?
- [34:57]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, but I'll defend her. I'm going to defend her. Um, the. You're already unstable. You're on drugs. Your family doesn't want anything to do with you. You were in a domestic violence shelter, you know, from some jerk in your life. Now you're with this other jerk who you've broken up with, who's stalking you. You're. You're traumatized. There was a lot that morning. At least she found out that the FBI was calling her. And she's worried. I don't know. She's worried. So could that be, you know, like I said, scared straight.
- [35:24]
Jim Spellman
She says she. She says the FBI called her. We don't know that that's what she says.
- [35:29]
Phil Houston
Yeah. Also, she said, oh, I didn't know who to call back. Google the FBI. And you have a phone number. If somebody thought I had committed a crime, I'd be on the phone with the police or with the FBI or.
- [35:43]
Megyn Kelly
She's a drug addict. She lives in a drug house. None of these people wants to voluntarily bring law enforcement into their lives. What does she gain by telling us falsely that the FBI called her when they didn't call her? I don't see it. See, there you go. I've rehabilitated her on one of your key points, Phil.
- [36:08]
Phil Houston
Take the L. It's very possible that she's simply trying to get everyone to believe that she's been through all the right steps and she cooperated every step along the way.
- [36:23]
Megyn Kelly
I feel bad, like, I don't want Megan Wright to be completely bashed here without a defense, because I thought it was very courageous for her to sit across from somebody like me who, even though I'm sympathetic to everything she's gone through, she knows I'm not an easy interviewer. She's not a dope.
- [36:37]
Jim Spellman
So you guys had me crying. I was crying.
- [36:40]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, you were crying.
- [36:41]
Phil Houston
I was crying.
- [36:41]
Megyn Kelly
Feeling so cynical.
- [36:43]
Jim Spellman
That's what we pay him the big bucks for.
- [36:46]
Phil Houston
I apologize.
- [36:47]
Megyn Kelly
I hate. Like, how confident are you? Because, like, I'll say this. I love you, Phil, but, like, are you too biased against Megan Wright and in favor Of Deborah?
- [36:56]
Phil Houston
No, she. She can make herself cry by thinking about all the bad and horrible things that happen. And, and she turns it on and off, on. On command.
- [37:10]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I know you're a genius, but I still have sympathies for her. I just.
- [37:14]
Jim Spellman
And we're allowed to do that, Megan. We're allowed to have that emotional response. But to Phil's point, many a bad guy and bad women. Woman will prey upon that emotional response. The bad guys know how to manipulate. They have sad stories, but they still may be bad guys. Now, do I think, you know, I differ slightly than Phil? You know, I. I do think it's Jersey. I do think that. Yeah, I don't think it was an organized thing. I think it was a crime of opportunity because why would he be walking up the block, you know, with a baby in its own.
- [37:51]
Phil Houston
I think it's Jersey as well. I'm not disagreeing with you. I think the admission to the lawyer about finding three phones on the night that three phones were stolen is. Is ludicrous.
- [38:09]
Megyn Kelly
Wait, what do you mean?
- [38:10]
Phil Houston
To believe that that's not him doing a couple of things. What he is doing is he is trying to cover his tracks. First of all, because if those phones turn up somewhere, he thinks his fingerprints or other association, digital association, will be made with him. So he wants an explanation of why he's on there, you know, doing something.
- [38:39]
Megyn Kelly
I knew it. I said that to Cindy Short. I said, phil Houston's gonna say he was admitting just enough to cover something he did, but not the whole thing. Yeah, John. Jersey Tenko was questioned by the police at the time. He denies any involvement, and the case remains open. Coming up in our next episode, new theories emerge about the disappearance that take the story in a completely new direction. We'll see you tomorrow for episode four. But first, if you're watching right now, please take a look at this picture of Lisa as she might look. Now, if you're listening, you can see the photo on YouTube or just go to MeganKelly.com if you see her or think you might have any information that can help find her, please write to me. The address is Megan M E G Y ngankelly.com you can also pass along tips on the baby Lisa story to the Kansas City Police Department or encourage them to get active on this case. That would be very helpful. Reach out at kccrimestoppers.com kcrimestoppers.com or call them at 816474 TIPS. TIPS. That's 816-47484, Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American Dream starts with purpose. By honoring your career calling, you can impact your family, friends and your community. Change the world for good by putting others before yourself. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's or doctoral degree, GCU's online, on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal and professional goals. With over 340 academic programs as of September 2024, GCU meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. Private christian affordable visit gcu.edu back pain.
- [40:54]
Phil Houston
And stiffness made mornings rough.
- [40:57]
Cindy Short
Pain made it tough to sleep until.
- [41:00]
Jeremy Irwin
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- [41:49]
Megan Wright
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