← The Megyn Kelly Show
The Megyn Kelly Show
New Details About Epstein's REAL Associations, and Meghan Deleted From Kardashian Pics, with Maureen Callahan | Ep. 1193
02:08:37
Megyn Kelly begins the show by discussing the newly-revealed Jeffrey Epstein emails and the left trying to implicate Trump, the truth about what Epstein said about Trump on Michael Wolff audio recordings, new details about a 2019 PR strategy session with Jeffrey Epstein, Steve Bannon, Michael Wolff and former Obama admin lawyer Kathy Ruemmler, what was reported publicly and what Megyn heard personally on the audio recording she heard, and more. Then Maureen Callahan, host of "The Nerve," joins to discuss the way the new Epstein emails implicate Bill Clinton, former Obama officials, and many more public figures in power, Harry and Meghan’s appearance at Kris Jenner’s birthday party, pictures of their attendance deleted from the Kardashians' Instagrams, what's really happening between the Harry and Meghan after their “trauma bonding,” the very telling World Series video, Gayle King’s ego and cluelessness as she may be losing her CBS gig, Michelle Obama’s obsession with talking about ...
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- [00:01]
Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111, every weekday at noon East. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show. I'm Megyn Kelly. We begin today with Jeffrey Epstein, convicted felon, pervert, abuser of women, and yes, at one point, a long time ago, friend of Donald Trump. Epstein also met with people like Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos, the Dalai Lama, reportedly many, many others who are not guilty of crimes just because they spent some time with the criminal Epstein. Epstein's back in the news this week, six years after he died in prison awaiting trial on charges of sex trafficking. Minors in the never ending quest to finally know everything there is to know about Jeffrey Epstein and his dastardly deeds, the House Oversight Committee subpoenaed Epstein's estate for his emails and related documents and lo and behold, they got them. Now every media outlet known to man is reporting on every word Epstein penned related to Donald Trump in a mad search to tie the President to the disgraced financier's sexual crimes. So far it hasn't worked. But this is a pathetic and blatant piece of proof that these people don't care at all about sex trafficking victims. The media cares about about one thing and one thing only. Getting Donald Trump and this effort to turn the Epstein story into the Trump story completely undermines the actual search for truth when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein. Which is why many of us resent these Johnny come lately from finally getting interested in the story. We've been covering the Epstein case for years here at the MK show, long before it was a Trump witch hunt. And many of the names surfacing in these emails that are hitting the public eye are familiar to us. Given that Epstein is back in the news, we thought now would be the perfect time to bring you an update on a story we first told you about nearly two years ago. You may remember way back in January 2024, I said something on this show that went viral. I said I believed we would be hearing from from Jeffrey Epstein directly sometime soon. We're not done with Jeffrey Epstein, I can tell you that for a fact. Can't tell you how I know, but I can tell you for a fact we're going to hear a lot more about Jeffrey Epstein in the coming year and you may be even hearing from him directly. More on that, as I'm allowed to tell you. I later clarified, because some people misunderstood that I was not implying Epstein was still alive, just that I knew there were tapes of the man and I had reason to believe they would be made public soon. And the reason I knew that was I've heard some of them. You see, author Michael Wolf has tapes of Jeffrey Epstein. Hours and hours and hours of tapes. Tapes he was shopping around. And it was clear to me then and now it was only a matter of time before they were published. Eleven months after my prediction that we would hear tapes of Jeffrey Epstein, we did. Michael Wolff himself played and allowed to be played a small portion of one of his tapes. Thing is, this was October 31, 2024, six days before the presidential election. News was at a fever pitch and Wolf's planned October surprise landed with a complete thud. Even he admitted that. That week, Wolf released one short excerpt of the tapes and also gave left wing media outlet the Daily Beast access to nearly two hours of the tapes. He also confirmed publicly at that time that he has up to 100 hours of tape of Jeffrey Epstein. A clip here from Wolf's podcast, Fire and Fury, October 31, 2024.
- [04:05]
Michael Wolff
I had many secret sources, but this was a particular secret source, quite particular. It was Trump's old friend Jeffrey Epstein. That Jeffrey Epstein. I think we have a snippet from one of the conversations that I recorded with Epstein. And I think this was in a restaurant in 2017.
- [04:27]
Jeffrey Epstein
His people fight each other, right? And then have outsiders. He sort of poisons the well outside. He will tell 10 people, Bannon's a scumbag and priest is not doing a good job. And Kelly has a big mouth. What do you think? Jamie Dimon says you're a problem and I shouldn't keep you. And I spoke to Carl Icahn and Carl thinks I need a new spokesperson. So Kelly, even though I hired Kellyanne's husband, Kellyanne, she's too much of a wild goat. And then he tells Ben, I really want to keep you, but Kellyanne hates you.
- [05:11]
Michael Wolff
I have more than dozens. I probably have 100 hours of Epstein talking about the inner workings of the Trump White House and about his longstanding, deep relationship with Donald Trump.
- [05:31]
Megyn Kelly
An unflattering excerpt about Donald Trump. Not a huge surprise, as Wolf is clearly not a fan of Trump's. Uh, he wrote a scathing biography about Donald Trump in 2018 called fire and Fury. While Trump cooperated with the book, for some reason, people keep cooperating with Michael Wolf. They always wind up unhappy. Trump attacked it as soon as it hit, criticizing its author and alleging that it was full of lives, lies. The podcast wolf released on October 31, 2024, seemed a clear effort to hurt Donald Trump before the vote. The Trump Campaign at the time called the move election interference. Wolf said on that show that he, Wolf, had become an outlet for Epstein, quote, to express his incredulity about someone whose sins he knew so well, and then this person actually being elected president. Wolf described Epstein as, quote, utterly preoccupied with Trump. Epstein was, Wolf said, quote, I think, frankly, afraid of him. As mentioned, Wolf shared more of his secret tapes at this same time with media site The Daily Beast. One hour and 44 minutes. In fact, the Beast reporting on November 2, 2024, three days before the election, that it had listened to this tape and provided many, many details from it in its reporting, including two excerpts its piece began. Quote, epstein painted a complicated portrait of Trump. He called him charming and always fun, capable of extraordinary salesmanship. But he alleged Trump was a serial cheat in his marriages and loved to quote, f the wives of his best friends. Epstein, the Daily Beast claimed, could be heard on these tapes, alleging that while Trump had friends, he was at heart, quote, a friendless man incapable of kindness. Asked by Michael Wolf how Epstein knew all of this, Epstein responds, quote, I was Donald's closest friend for 10 years. Epstein says in the tape, per the Beast, that Trump had an elaborate scheme to procure sex with his friends wives, and goes into detail about how Mr. Trump allegedly did this, supposedly by getting the husband to agree on the phone to cheat on his wife with a young woman that Trump would procure while the wife was secretly listening to that conversation. Then Epstein reportedly claims that Trump would say to the wife, see, he's a bad guy. Why not consider sex with me? This is a story Wolf had already told in his 2018 book Fire and Fury, and which the Beast effectively verified was sourced to Jeffrey Epstein. Here's an excerpt published from the tapes by the Daily Beast of Epstein.
- [08:21]
Michael Wolff
So how do you know this? So I need the.
- [08:28]
Megyn Kelly
I need the Donald.
- [08:31]
Michael Wolff
Just give me Donald.
- [08:38]
Jeffrey Epstein
It's fun. She probably already has scalp reduction because he had the same male pattern that we all have. He had his scalp wound hysterical. Donald's office, as you know, he made that. He used to be on the phone instead. I also found it funny. I was sitting there listening to the guys from the postcard, and Donald would say, you know, he's a great guy. You know, I loved working with him. And I sit there going, this is just amazing. He'd say, michael, come on, let's go to the office. And he said, tell me, what's it like? He said, you know, do you like having sex with your wife? How often do we have? He said, it's great. How. Seriously, how often do we have sex? We don't want to. We can unite and go upstairs. Or tomorrow, come over. There's this girl's cutting in from Los Angeles, part of the Hawaiian Tropic. So come over. Three o', clock, you can have a great time. I promise you, Michael, you know, it's just me and you. You're going to have a great time. Be up here at 3 o'.
- [10:00]
Maureen Callahan
Clock.
- [10:00]
Jeffrey Epstein
We go upstairs. The whole time, Victoria's been on the phone listening. He sending it out because he wants a Victoria. Come on, you must. She must have had a better life, right? Tell me about it. And the wife's arm, the speaker listening, smiled and said, you know, I know you. I think you know Tom, and I know you think you've got Michael, like the end of the world, the best guy on earth. Just listen.
- [10:42]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, that was kind of hard to hear. If you go to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com Megan Kelly, you'll see it transcribed on the screen at 10 after the hour. So go 10 minutes into our YouTube show and it posts later. But it was in essence, exactly what I said in the setup. It was him using Michael Wolff, who he was talking to, as the example of how Trump might do this. You, Michael, your wife, Victoria, she's secretly listening. Oh, you must have had sex with people other than your wife. Tell me what that was about. While the wife was allegedly listening. And then the end pivot to like, hey, wife, here I am. That's basically what Epstein was alleging Trump used to do. On the tape, Epstein also can be heard attacking Trump's intelligence and his character. Here is the second excerpt published by the Beast last November. So just tell me about his intelligence.
- [11:41]
Jeffrey Epstein
With respect to real estate deals.
- [11:45]
Megyn Kelly
Brilliant.
- [11:47]
Jeffrey Epstein
He's a salesman. He knows real estate really well. Anything else but that he knows nothing. No history, no strategy. And then I start to say by executive function, executive function says, and it's strange because construction by definition is just that. First you have the foundation, you have the steel going up, what stage. But in terms of his anything but real estate, he can't figure out, if I fire Batman, what happens to Noah.
- [12:24]
Michael Wolff
So cause and effect. That has no relationship in analytic intelligence. Now, what's this thing about that functionally he can't read or he doesn't read, or you certainly.
- [12:41]
Jeffrey Epstein
He certainly can't meet a balance sheet, which is funny. Has no idea. He doesn't believe he reads Page six.
- [13:01]
Megyn Kelly
He reads Page Six.
- [13:02]
Jeffrey Epstein
So he's not functioning for literally. But his reading comprehension is anything complicated.
- [13:18]
Michael Wolff
Now, other than he has, he has a sense of humor, he can be funny. What else? Recommends.
- [13:31]
Jeffrey Epstein
His ability to sell. He is charming. He is able to convince people it's very much like Clinton. Both Bill and Donald have the ability to go over to a fat, ugly woman, say, you are the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. So he tells everybody what they want to hear. And I'm telling you that I know four or five people who have recently seen him. Horrible human being in Jefferson. He does nasty things to his best friends, best friends, wives, anyone who first tries to gain the trust and then uses it do bad things.
- [14:29]
Megyn Kelly
Keep in mind, this is a man, Epstein, who is known as a liar, prolific liar. He was reportedly thrown out of Mar a Lago by Donald Trump after pursuing young women there and whose friendship with Trump was ended by Trump. Wolf claimed on his Halloween 2024 podcast that Epstein actually blamed Trump for Epstein's growing legal troubles. It started when the two men both attempted to purchase a Florida mansion. Trump had the higher bid and got the property. Listen here to the fire and fury.
- [15:04]
Michael Wolff
So Epstein was pissed, of course, and he began to threaten lawsuits and he began to threaten press exposure. I mean, he was really, really, really pissed. When those guys lose a dream house.
- [15:17]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [15:17]
Michael Wolff
And that was the point at which Epstein's own legal problems, the problems with the girls, began. And certainly in Epstein's telling, this all happened because it was Trump who first dropped a dime on him.
- [15:34]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, is that right?
- [15:35]
Michael Wolff
And Trump would have known about the girls cuz he was in and out of Epstein's house. Yeah. When Epstein and I were talking about this. And Trump was now the President of the United States.
- [15:48]
Megyn Kelly
Hmm. So the version of Epstein talking to Michael Wolf appears to be a jilted friend who blames his legal troubles on Trump. Don't forget, they started back in 2008 when he was accused of of soliciting sex from a minor. And who has watched his hated ex friend become President of the United States. The Trump campaign, when all these allegations were published, the tapes and the Michael Wolf podcast right before he was elected president. Again, the Trump campaign in 24 denied all of these allegations, attacking Michael Wolf as, quote, a disgraced writer who routinely fabricates lies in order to sell fiction books because he clearly has no morals or ethics. When Fire and Fury, the book, came out six years before this October surprise, the White House called it trashy tabloid fiction, saying it was filled with false and misleading accounts. All of which brings us to today. Where are the remaining 98 hours of Epstein tapes? Wolf says he has 100 or so, maybe more in that tape. He Sundays, I have 100 of hours of him talking about Trump. So maybe he has even more of him just talking, period. One hour and 44 minutes were provided to the Daily Beast. A few minutes if that was played on Wolf's podcast. So what gives? Where. Where's the rest of it? Well, we at the Megyn Kelly show can confirm that more tapes do indeed exist. We know, because my team and I have heard some of them. The tapes have not been made public because we have been told they are part of an unknown, unreleased project. Who's doing the project? Who now owns the tapes? I don't know. We do not have a copy of them, nor do we know the plans for them. But we do recall some of what we heard on them. We heard a conversation from April 2019, which is five months after Julie K. Brown's explosive reporting on Epstein. That really led to the end for him and. And young women in the Miami Herald that led to renewed national scrutiny on Jeffrey Epstein. It talked basically just. It was all about how Epstein had negotiated some three dozen women coming forward, young women, 13 to 15, 13 to 16 coming forward against Jeffrey Epstein at the time. And the local pd, she wrote, was doing its job trying to process all these claims. And then eventually it became so huge, they brought in the feds. This is under the George W. Bush administration. It was 2007 that this first unfolded. Obama didn't, you know, take office till January of 2009. And so this thing was growing back then against Epstein. And that's when Alan Dershowitz came in. He represented Jeffrey Epstein, and he got him the sweetheart deal of the century, where they made all these women go away by not involving them in the plea. They told. They didn't tell the women that they were copying a plea with this guy. They actually told the women that the case was ongoing, which is a violation of their rights, and led in part to some of the payouts these women got. This is totally unfair to them. They never had their day in court because of what the feds did with Epstein at that time. They struck a sweetheart plea deal with him where he got to plead guilty to solicitation of prostitution from a minor, which is not a thing. Minors cannot prostitute themselves. That's called statutory rape. So that's what Epstein was going through. That's what they were suggesting he was blaming on Trump, that Trump somehow dropped a dime on him at the time after this failed real estate deal or this fight they had over either real Estate or, you know, seeking girls at Mar a Lago. We. We just don't know. We've had different stories told to us. And he thought Trump was at the root of his legal problems. But now in 2018, Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald stumbles on the whole thing. She sees this sweetheart deal. He served, what, like a year and a half on house arrest, 12 hours a day were outside of the prison. He was at his, like, office in this Kush environment. He was out of jail six out of the seven days of the week. And so she blew the lid off of this, that this guy, Alex Acosta, who was the U.S. attorney at the time covering this area of Florida, struck this deal with Alan Dershowitz and Epstein's other. Other lawyers. That was the deal of the century. He did have to register as a sex offender, and it allowed him to go on as a predator. That's really what was so controversial about it, among other things, really. And so she breaks this eight year or ten years after he struck the deal, renewing massive amounts of scrutiny on Epstein, Alex Acosta, who by 2018 had become Trump's Labor Secretary, he wound up having to leave the post after this reporting. And that was, I think, November of 2018, it was July of 2019 that Epstein got charged as a serial, prolific sex trafficker. Right. So this Julie K. Brown article was explosive and did lead to all this renewed national scrutiny on Epstein. So this is where he's talking on the tape that we heard. It's April of 2019, just a few months after Julie K. Brown's reporting, but three months before Epstein would actually be arrested on the new, gravely serious charges of sex trafficking minors. On the tape that we heard, four power brokers are in a room. They are brainstorming public relations strategies. The goal, to try to rehabilitate Epstein's image. Epstein's there. Steve Bannon is there. Obviously a major player on the right. Michael Wolf is also there. But he is not just a journalistic observer. He is an active participant, providing Epstein with his own PR advice. This tracks with an extraordinary email exchange released yesterday between Wolf and Epstein from three years earlier, from a few years prior to this 2019 email that we heard. It is dated December 15th. Is it 2015 or 26?
- [21:58]
Katherine Ruemmler
Yeah.
- [21:58]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. It's December 15th, 2015, and carries over to December 16th, 2015. This. In this exchange, Wolf sounds, when he's writing to Epstein, more like a crisis PR rep than he does an independent journalist, which he purports to be, by the way, on December 15, 2015, Wolf tells Epstein, quote, I hear CNN is planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you either on air or, or in scrum afterward. There was a CNN debate that night. Epstein responds that same day, quote, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be? Wolf responds the next day, on the 16th, quote, I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you. Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt. CNN did not ask Trump about Epstein at all that night. And in another stunning email, Wolf in October of 2016 writes to Epstein, quote, there's an opportunity to come forward this week and talk about Trump. This is right before the election in such a way that could garner you great sympathy and help finish him interested. Wolf posted a video on social media yesterday responding to these disclosures from these emails. But he did not address any of the ethical issues about his relationship with Epstein as a so called journalist. Instead, as you're now seeing in a pattern of events, Michael Wolf went after Donald Trump.
- [23:46]
Michael Wolff
I have been trying to talk about this story for a very long time now and this is, well, perhaps we're getting close to the smoking gun. Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump had the closest of relationships for more than a decade. It's curious that Epstein's relationship with so many people in public life has damaged them considerably. But the one person who he was closest to has not been held accountable. That's Donald Trump. I have, well, I released, I released tapes of Epstein talking about this relationship before the election to really little effect. What was Donald Trump's relationship to Jeffrey Epstein? What's the nature of that relationship? What did they do together? And anything I think that can bring us closer to an answer to that question is central to our time.
- [25:04]
Megyn Kelly
Now let's be clear. When Michael Wolf released those excerpts that landed with the thud In October, on October 31 and via the Daily Beast, November 2, the election was November 5 of 2024. He wanted to sink Trump. That seems clear. Why would he hold back the most damning piece of the tapes if he has more? If he's got Epstein on tape making it clear Trump trafficked girls something equally awful, don't you think Michael Wolf would have released that days before the election? So while he, he says we're getting close to the smoking gun, it seems clear to me he doesn't have it. He doesn't have it. I think it's clear he would have released it. But back to what I do believe he does have. I only know a sliver of it. He knows the rest. And I don't know whether he's ever going to show us on the rest of those tapes. But I want to go back to what we heard and the room with Epstein, Wolf, Bannon, and one other person, a woman. We can at this time exclusively reveal that the fourth party in that room never before publicly identified was former Obama White House counsel Katherine Ruemmler. Ms. Rumler is all over the emails that just hit yesterday, which show a very friendly relationship between her and Jeffrey Epstein. She reportedly even showed up to Epstein's 2019 sex trafficking arraignment in Wolf's 2021 book. All right, now try to keep it straight, because we're going to tell you about a meeting that was from April 2019. Jeffrey Epstein allegedly killed himself in August of 2019, one month after he'd been charged with all these crimes. And then in 2021, Wolf wrote another book. In 2018, he had written Fasted or Fury and Fire. Whatever. Whatever it was. Fire and Fury. And then in 2021, after the meeting that we're discussing with you right now, he wrote another book called Too Famous. And in that book, he revealed parts of this conversation I'm telling you about right now. But interestingly, he holds a few things back. He does not reveal, for example, this attorney's identity. In the audio we heard, she's referred to as White House counsel and Kathy. So it's pretty clear to us who it is now that we see her all over the email correspondence. Even more so. We reached out to Ms. Rumler on our reporting that she was in this meeting with Epstein, and she declined to comment. The tenor of the conversation is friendly and upbeat. It sounds like friends having a good time, laughing and joking as they try to come up with ways to spin a known sex abuser back into the good graces of the public. Now, just, just. It's interesting. Keep in mind, this is after he knows at this point about the Julie K. Brown reporting, and he knows additional legal charges could come his way. That's the, that's what's interesting about the timing of this tape that we heard. All right, so it's, it's happening months before he would wind up dead. The discussion in the audio begins with a bizarre and flippant conversation about prostitution and whether the average prostitute is underage or not. Again, Reminder, Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 to solicitation of an underage prostitute. Insert my refrain about how that's an impossibility. He raped a young girl. He didn't solicit a prostitute who was underage. That's not a thing. Bannon then quickly tries to change the topic, expressing his opinion that the core accusations against Epstein, that he is a rapist and a pedophile who is trafficking underage girls to his rich friends, are not true. Bannon says Epstein does not have a legal strategy problem, but that his PR problems are metastasizing. Bannon suggests a year of media training so Epstein could do an interview on a program like 60 Minutes. And both Bannon and Rummler express regret that Charlie Rose, who was brought down by a sexual harassment scandal of his own in 2017, was no longer available to do an interview on his show. Yes, he would have been a friendly. They were not wrong about that. Wolf then brings up Gayle King as a possible interviewer. Bannon notes R. Kelly's disastrous interview with her went south because, in his view, R. Kelly didn't prepare. Note to Gail, it's not a great thing when they're talking about who could we get to do a softball interview. And you are the second one mentioned after only sex pest Charlie Rose. So telling these windows into these backroom conversations, Wolf documented some of this conversation I'm telling you about, though notably not all in that book I mentioned called Too Famous, which hit in 2021, revealing that Rumler chimed in. He didn't. He doesn't name her. That she did not want Epstein videotaped in preparation for any interview with a 60 Minutes or whomever because it could be subject to a subpoena. Listen to this exchange on the audiobook of Too Famous that begins with the attorney we are now identifying as Rummler in her argument with Steve Bannon.
- [30:23]
Katherine Ruemmler
I'm not opposed to media training. I just don't want a videotape out there. He's got to sit there and watch the tape all the time. That's how you learn. This is like preparing for a deposition, except this is preparing for the court of public opinion. That's my point. He never had to prepare for a deposition because he just takes the Fifth. Now you're setting him up to answer questions he can't answer. And certainly if he answers them, they're not going to rehabilitate him. She was only 16, but full of tattoos. So 16, but not like a good person who's 16, really, continued Bannon there has got to be a way to answer that in. In an acceptable way. I don't know what the answer is, but you have got to figure out the basic positioning which should have been done 15 years ago. We're trying to show remorse or whatever. We're trying to show however we get there. We've got to get this to the point on Gayle King so that the big reveal is that he's not a monster.
- [31:25]
Jeffrey Epstein
He's human.
- [31:26]
Katherine Ruemmler
Ashamed, mortified.
- [31:31]
Megyn Kelly
Very interesting. Okay, so that's the audio reader depicting an exchange between Bannon and Rummler. Notably excluded from Wolf's book is Wolf's own role in this exchange. He's openly advising Epstein again in this conversation on how to minimize his alleged crimes. Epstein does not appear to be taking it seriously at all, asking at one point, who's going to play me on Saturday Night Live? More from the audiobook of Too Famous depicting here a conversation Wolf says he had with Steve Bannon comparing the media training to that a professional athlete would get when studying game tape.
- [32:11]
Katherine Ruemmler
There's a process here of getting him on camera and having him study it like you study NFL films, like Tom Brady.
- [32:18]
Megyn Kelly
That's bad.
- [32:19]
Katherine Ruemmler
And do you think he can actually do this, even studying? I'm here, by the way, guys, Grandpa's.
- [32:27]
Megyn Kelly
Up in the attic.
- [32:28]
Katherine Ruemmler
He's still here, said a shrugging Epstein.
- [32:33]
Megyn Kelly
Rummler ultimately relents and allows Epstein to sit for a practice interview. So long as they don't talk about his legal issues on the tape we heard, but not in Wolf's book. Epstein bizarrely suggests that he should talk about women and science in the practice interview. This is how he thinks he's gonna rehabilitate himself. An incredulous Rumler accuses Epstein of having said there's never been a great female scientist and that women become morons as soon as they get their first period. An undeterred Epstein says women are the future of science because they will focus on things that cannot be measured, like love and intuition. Okay. We can also reveal for the first time that before the practice interview, the group also discusses possibly suing the Miami Herald of over its award winning reporting about Epstein. But Rumler expresses concern that Epstein's reputation was already so soiled that he would not be able to recover many damages and that he would still have to plead the Fifth Amendment in any depositions. Rummeler then leaves the group to take a call on behalf of another client, and Epstein is heard on the tape telling Rummler cute dress. Bannon jokes, let me introduce you to Jeffrey Biden, an Obvious reference to Jeffrey Epstein's name, and we assume that of Joe Biden, a reference to Biden's inappropriate public behavior toward young women. In the practice session, Bannon plays the role of a 60 Minutes interviewer, and Epstein tries to say he doesn't like to party. Wolf's book Too Famous would later recount this conversation with Steve Bannon, identified as S.B. epstein. Jeff in the audiobook.
- [34:17]
Katherine Ruemmler
S.B. you're not a playboy. J.E. i am a playboy. S.B. how can you be a playboy and not be social? JE I didn't say I was a hermit. I don't go out. I meet people in different ways. I go to specialized professional gatherings. SB Is that a euphemism? JE Where I meet people who I find interesting or interesting people seek me out and come to my home. S.B. are these men or women? J. E Both. But if the question is, do I like women? The answer is yes.
- [34:48]
Megyn Kelly
No wonder this interview never actually happened. I mean, some bad things happened to Jeffrey Epstein after that plan. But you could see the frustration of those who were apparently trying to help him, that he might be unhelpable. On the tape, we hear Epstein say that he has a photographic memory with numbers that he studied at the Lawrence Livermore National Lab in high school, and that he received a perfect score on the math section of his SAT despite not having a college degree. He says he got a job as a math teacher at the prestigious private Dalton School in New York City by cold calling and then acing the interview. In the practice interview with Bannon, Epstein says he taught 17 and 18 year olds and that he would pay extra attention to the girls. The exchange here in the audiobook of too famous. Listen.
- [35:38]
Katherine Ruemmler
S.B. you would focus on the females versus the males. J. E. Yes, to the extent that I had something more to give them. S.B. what? J. E, As I said, a friendlier view of the math world. S.B. you understand how that might sound creepy? J.E. that I don't know. It doesn't sound creepy to me now, and I don't think it seemed creepy to anyone then. I also tutored young black men who.
- [36:05]
Megyn Kelly
Epstein's comments about young black students also weren't exactly media friendly. From the audiobook.
- [36:13]
Katherine Ruemmler
They can do great mathematics. They just have to be playing basketball at the same time. Seriously, when blacks learn, one of the nice things about basketball is that they are moving around. Blacks learn really well when they are moving around. And in American schools, you tell blacks to sit in their chairs.
- [36:32]
Megyn Kelly
The group then takes a break to give Epstein feedback where Wolf and Bannon compliment him on his charisma and screen presence, but make the observation that his commentary needs some work. Seriously, Says Bannon, according to Too Famous. You're engaging, you're not threatening, you're natural, you're friendly, you don't look at all creepy, you're a sympathetic figure. And this is what 75% of the battle is. I'm totally impressed. We just have to cut the content down on the audio we heard, but not in the book. Wolf enters the conversation again, reminding Epstein that 60 Minutes is going to shoot two hours of tape and cut it down to about six minutes and saying Epstein was giving them opportunities to capture moments when he sounds terrible. Also not in the book is Bannon reminding Epstein that the interview is, quote, not a search for truth. While Epstein is in another room, Wolf on the tape expresses how fishy he finds it that Epstein got a job at the Dalton School without a college degree. Quote, I've been going after this for years, Wolf is heard saying. And then Bannon responds, quote, I'm still not buying it. Bannon is laughing at the time. And the American people are not buying the story around Epstein either. Legitimate questions persist about the extent of his crimes and who, if anyone, is being protected. President Trump seems uninterested in further Epstein disclosures. Just this week he reportedly met with Lauren Boebert, one of the Republicans pushing a so called discharge petition that IF signed by 218 House members, which has now happened, happened late yesterday, will get a vote on the House floor seeking more disclosure from the doj. The vote, however, will be largely symbolic, as it would likely be DOA in the Senate and presumably on President Trump's desk. Still, what we heard and what Wolf's earlier reporting reveals is a deep animus by Epstein toward Trump. A bitterness, a resentment, at least by the date of those tape excerpts. We played August 2017 and clearly thereafter. By 2019, after the media storm hit, Epstein was focused on image rehab. Within months he would be charged with two serious felonies and would die, allegedly by suicide, in a New York prison. So many questions remain. Did the seemingly jocular man we heard on those tapes in 2019 take his own life months later after his legal troubles mounted? Why was the so called journalist Michael Wolf advising Epstein like a hired PR guru? And why wasn't his full role disclosed in his earlier books? Why was our friend Steve Bannon there? And what does he know of the Wolf tapes? More importantly, what about Bannon's own tapes? Bannon has publicly revealed that he at one point was making a documentary About Jeffrey Epstein. It's been reported he has 15 hours of his own tapes of this guy, but that they've never been released. They haven't been. Bannon once explained that he was hoping to show that Epstein's, quote, perversions and depravity toward young women were part of a life that was systematically supported, encouraged and rewarded by a global establishment that dined off of his money and his influence. The New York Post even obtained a trailer for the film. Here it is the time I was 16.
- [40:07]
Maureen Callahan
I brought him up to 75 girls.
- [40:10]
Jeffrey Epstein
He was glib and he lived essentially.
- [40:13]
Megyn Kelly
Like he was Gatsby.
- [40:14]
Michael Wolff
He was an absolutely terrifying person to encounter. You own an island.
- [40:21]
Megyn Kelly
Two islands.
- [40:22]
Michael Wolff
The islands of Dr. Moreau.
- [40:23]
Jeffrey Epstein
Correct. I made my living from old thinking, but the future is for the way women think.
- [40:29]
Megyn Kelly
The way women think, that's correct.
- [40:31]
Jeffrey Epstein
Is that not a sop because of.
- [40:33]
Michael Wolff
All the depravity you've done against young women? And your new sop is that their women's thinking is the future?
- [40:41]
Jeffrey Epstein
No. I've always believed that women would be, in fact be able to take over. I'm a firm believer and supporter of Time's Up. The greatest threat to people put in solitary confinement. They try to kill themselves. Imagine that you're only in a room for 24 hours. You start to go crazy.
- [41:00]
Megyn Kelly
The Monsters at Steen's Life among the Global Elite, produced by somebody whose name I missed and Steve Bannon. That film was never released. We reached out to Steve, who we love, for comment on our reporting and we'll let you know when and if he responds. I'm sure he'll have something to say about this. I'm sure. I'm sure he'd like the chance to comment on this whole experience and on his own tapes. And we're pals with him and would love to ask him directly here in in a good exchange. So I hope he'll come on and we'll talk about it coming up next. Maureen Callahan. Here is. Maureen Callahan is here to react to this and all the news of the day. Buckle up. This is a crazy one. Streaming November 16th on Paramount plus it is the return of Landman, TV's biggest phenomenon from Taylor Sheridan, co creator of Yellowstone. Academy Award winner Billy Bob Thornton is back as Tommy Norris and managing higher stakes than ever before. It features an all star cast including Academy Award nominees Demi Moore, Andy Garcia and Sam Elliott. In the wake of his former boss's passing, tensions come to a head as Tommy and Demi Moore's character, Cammy Miller. Struggle to maintain control of M Tech's oil. And with his father, played by Sam Elliott, coming back into his life, Tommy must juggle both his roles as an oil man and a family man. As pressure builds and his worlds collide, don't miss the hit series everyone's talking about. Landman's new season starts streaming November 16th only on Paramount. Plus, Maureen Callahan is here with me in studio. She's, of course, the host of the Nerve with Maureen Callahan, a huge hit on all podcast platforms, YouTube, even Substack. You can go and subscribe@thenerveshow.com hello troublemakers. And she is joining me on the Megyn Kelly Show Live Tour next week, November 2 1, November 21 in Anaheim, California, along with Jillian Michaels and our pals from the Fifth Column. Still some tickets left for that, so go right now to Megan Kelly.com to get them right now. Megan Kelly.com. maureen, welcome back.
- [43:17]
Maureen Callahan
Thanks for having me. I'm so happy to see you.
- [43:19]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God. I'm so happy to see you, too. Congrats, by the way. Just the show is kicking.
- [43:23]
Maureen Callahan
Thank you.
- [43:23]
Megyn Kelly
It's so fun to listen to.
- [43:24]
Maureen Callahan
Thank you. It's so fun to make.
- [43:25]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, we just.
- [43:26]
Maureen Callahan
I can die every day. We're having the most fun.
- [43:29]
Megyn Kelly
We went from the wood chipper. The woodshed to the wood chipper. What do you call yourself? Your cultural prosecutor?
- [43:34]
Maureen Callahan
I am a cultural criminal prosecutor. Yes.
- [43:37]
Megyn Kelly
Perfect.
- [43:38]
Maureen Callahan
Yes.
- [43:39]
Megyn Kelly
Do we have T shirts yet that read allegedly, in my opinion.
- [43:42]
Maureen Callahan
What we're, what we're getting fielded many requests for which we're working on allegedly. Reportedly. Just my opinion.
- [43:50]
Megyn Kelly
We're getting just my opinion mugs. I love it. I'll. I'll get them. I love it. And listen, it's. We, we're laughing about it, but it's an honest thing to do. You know, you're.
- [44:00]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [44:00]
Megyn Kelly
For the audience. You're letting them know what this is, an opinion versus a fact that I'll state authoritatively and like, too few do that.
- [44:08]
Maureen Callahan
No, absolutely. And we're also very, you know, our whole thing is we exist for a reason. And we really are bringing to light the underbelly of celebrity culture and those people that we choose to lionize and glamorize who, you know, may, like Ryan Reynolds, be, just my opinion, a psycho arsonist who has yet to be brought to account.
- [44:27]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. And you have the receipts on that?
- [44:29]
Maureen Callahan
I do. Very much so.
- [44:30]
Megyn Kelly
You have a good basis for your opinion?
- [44:32]
Maureen Callahan
Very much so.
- [44:33]
Megyn Kelly
But, but underscore. That's what it is. Okay, let's Start with Epstein. Let's start with Michael Wolf, just for, for kicks, because I don't know why people continue to sit with Michael Wolf, because every biography he does on somebody is just an absolute killer. And then they all get mad at Michael Wolf, like the Murdochs and others, and then they're sorry that they sat with Michael Wolf, but Donald Trump sat with him in 2018 or prior that. Because that's when it hit fire and fury. And it seems very clear, based on the talking points I just laid out, that Michael Wolf can't stand Trump and really seemed determined to bring Trump down. And it's amazing to me that he calls himself a journalist and yet is an active PR advisor to people like Epstein, who he's also supposed to be doing, I guess, journalism with.
- [45:23]
Maureen Callahan
It seemed to me, from what you just did in that segment, plus the emails that have been released or leaking out, I mean, I don't know. Everybody in the industry knows, like, Michael Wolfe talks out of both sides of his mouth, you know, so why these people would put themselves. I just. It feels like gamesmanship to me. Everything, including the abuse of minor girls. It kind of feels like a game. Can we get away with it?
- [45:48]
Megyn Kelly
Yep.
- [45:49]
Maureen Callahan
Michael Wolfe. I'll teach you how to get away with it. Steve Bannon. I'll help you get away with it. You know, I was just reading back to make sure I had my timeline right. It was 2008, when Epstein went to prison for soliciting prostitution. Fake prison, which everyone knew was that the stepmother of a 14 year old girl had called Palm beach police and said, I think my stepdaughter's been molested over there. And they all knew it. They all knew what was going on over there. And he got. What do you get? Like, work release. Like, he was able to leave. And all day I've walked by that prison. It's tiny and it's pretty and it's kush. It's not like he was in like MDC where they're holding Luigi Magione and they held Diddy and off he goes every day to like, go about his business, which I would. The guy was a danger to young girls everywhere. So I don't know how it is that a Michael Wolf who has written for the publication I write for, you know, it's.
- [46:48]
Megyn Kelly
How is his name not mud?
- [46:49]
Maureen Callahan
Exactly, exactly.
- [46:51]
Megyn Kelly
The, the thing you mentioned about, you know, the, the work release, like Jeffrey Epstein was publicly disgraced in 2008, even with that sweetheart plea deal. I mean, you find out your friend has pleaded guilty to Solicitation of prostitution of a minor. Most people would end the relationship at that point. Yeah, it's a no, right?
- [47:11]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [47:12]
Megyn Kelly
But almost no one did. Like Prince Andrew didn't that. That infamous dinner that he had at his New York mansion with Katie Couric and George Chelsea Hamler. Yes. They all went after. Well after that to gather together. Who, Steve? Woody Allen. Oh, that's a shock. Yeah, that was well after Epstein had copped that plea. And they all knew and they didn't care. And here's the. Here's what's, like crazy Larry. Larry Summers. All right, so that was Obama's treasury secretary. And the former president of Harvard has been outed in these documents as honestly, like a pathetic little child. I can't believe how embarrassing they are for him. So this guy has some exchange with Epstein. I'm trying to find it here where he acts like he can't. Like I'm trying to find it. Where is the little flirt? He wants to learn how to flirt and he needs the help. It's an AM update. Yeah, I'm looking at AM update, but I don't see it. Hold on. I gotta find it because it's so good. Standby. I'm going to find it. It's worth it. Okay. It's not on the first page. We're all arguing Thanksgiving. No Dershowitz. Here it is. He asked Epstein for dating advice. Now, keep in mind, this is after not only the 08 plea deal, it's after the 2018 Miami Herald reporting.
- [48:40]
Maureen Callahan
Yes.
- [48:41]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. So that's what blew the whole lid off of it after that. And Larry Summers is asking him for dating advice, saying the following. Okay. By the way, he's a contributing writer for the New York Times opinion section. The correspondence took place in 2017, 2018 and 2019. And he says, all right, standby. Here it is. Yeah. March 16, 2019. He writes, we talked on the phone then I can't talk later. Didn't think I can talk tomorrow. I said, what are you up to? She said, I'm busy. I said, awfully coy you are. And then I said, did you really rearrange the weekend we were going to be together because guy number three was coming? She said, no, his schedule changed. After we changed our plans, I said, okay, I gotta go. Call me when you feel like it. Tone was not of good feeling. I didn't d I n t want to be in a gift giving competition while being the friend without benefits. You'll have to stay tuned to hear Epstein's response. Right after this quick break, let's get real about staying healthy, especially when the world keeps throwing chemical laden solutions at us. I want to tell you about Beekeeper's naturals. Their propolis throat spray provides rock solid immune support. Loaded with potent antioxidants, it neutralizes free radicals and arms you against whatever's going around. One quick spritz and you are set. No drowsiness, no junk, just nature doing its thing. And don't sleep on the propolis nasal spray. It flushes, soothes and wipes out germs in one go. Beekeepers naturals is giving exclusive early access to their Black Friday sale. Go to beekeepersnaturals.com Megan or enter the code Megan to get 30% off site wide. That's B e e K e e P e r s naturals n a t u r a l s.com Megan, I appreciate the spelling of Beekeepers naturals, but I kind of feel like the audience has that one. That's beekeepers followed by the word naturals dot com. Megan, you got that? You. I have faith in you. Or you can just enter the code Megan for your discount when you check out their biggest sale of the year. This is. These products always sell. They sell out once the Black Friday sale opens to the public. So grab yours right now. Beekeepers Natural products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Walmart, Amazon, CVS and Walgreens. B E e k e e. You got it. You got you. You know what to do. All right, let's go. Isn't it great to be together? It's so great to see you. You're not alone. It's only the liberal media and the hate haters who want you to think that we're in the majority right now. We're from Chicago. We flew in just for this. It's like we have to go.
- [51:49]
Maureen Callahan
And then after what happened to Charlie.
- [51:51]
Megyn Kelly
I'm like, we definitely have to go. Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megyn Kelly live tour.
- [51:56]
Maureen Callahan
It's a very important time in our country, Megan.
- [51:59]
Megyn Kelly
Stand firmly. Do not waver on the truth. Next stops, Bakersfield, Anaheim and the grand finale in Glendale, Arizona. Featuring special guest Erica Kirk. I really genuinely feel like it's more important right now than ever, you know, for all the reasons and it took courage for all of you to come.
- [52:19]
Maureen Callahan
The biggest thing we can do is be unafraid.
- [52:25]
Megyn Kelly
So go get your tickets right now before they sell out. Megankelly.com presented by Y Refi and Sirius.
- [52:30]
Maureen Callahan
XM.
- [52:35]
Megyn Kelly
I want to tell you that after the show on Sirius XM at 2pm on the Megyn Kelly Channel, which is channel 111, you can share your thoughts as part of the MK Wrap Up show hosted by Emily Jaszynski today. Her guest is Janice Bilboer of MK True Crime, reacting to our Epstein talking points and breaking news. And to Maureen, you can call in at 83344, Megan. That's 833-446-3496. And tomorrow I will be joining Emily on the Wrap up show. So tune in at 2pm Eastern on Sirius XM Triumph Channel. Oh, sorry, MK channel one eleven for that. Maureen is back with me. Okay, so here's Larry Summers, former president of Harvard, former treasury secretary under Barack Obama, writing an email to Jeffrey Epstein like a small schoolgirl. Honestly, my 14 year old daughter has much more maturity than is expressed in this. And Epstein responds, she's smart, making you pay for past errors. Ignore the daddy, I'm going to go out with the motorcycle guy. You reacted well. Annoyed shows caring. No whining showed strength. This is so embarrassing. He is desperate to have approval from Epstein and how he's going to behave in November 2018, which by the way, is right after the Miami Herald report, Summers forwarded Epstein an email from a woman with whom he'd been corresponding writing, think no response for a while. Probably appropriate, Epstein replies, she's already, already beginning to sound needy. Nice. Summers, when asked to comment on this by the Times, responded that I previously said I regretted my associations with him. Why? You were fine. What do you mean you regretted you were with him? At the time we knew everything. We know now, like 2018, 2019. And you're seeking dating advice from the guy.
- [54:23]
Maureen Callahan
I mean, so these are allegedly the finest minds.
- [54:27]
Megyn Kelly
Allegedly. Reportedly.
- [54:28]
Maureen Callahan
Allegedly. Reportedly the finest minds. First of all, he puts this in writing. Call him my man. Okay? Like just make it a phone call. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was probably recording everything and everyone anyway. But then to be like, I don't know, what would he be at this point, like in his early 60s?
- [54:48]
Megyn Kelly
Who? Epstein?
- [54:49]
Maureen Callahan
No, Summers at the time of writing these emails that are like, I think that's right. So if you parse the subtext, the subtext is, hey, Jeffrey, I'm dating a sugar baby who's with me because I'm a rich, older, powerful man with money. She doesn't want to have sex with me, but I want to have sex with her. He literally says, I'm sick of buying her stuff and she's not putting out. Now this is where it really gets pathetic. I'm going to pass you a note at lunch and ask you should I return this text message or should I make her wait?
- [55:20]
Megyn Kelly
I'm so embarrassed.
- [55:21]
Maureen Callahan
And this is a woman who's embarrassment, right? And she's juggling like three other guys. Three other guys. And he's like, jeff, what do I do now? I would say to Larry Summers, if you're dating a 14 year old, that's your guy. That's who you should go to for dating advice.
- [55:34]
Megyn Kelly
True.
- [55:35]
Maureen Callahan
But if you're not molesting children and you're just like over on, like sugar babies or, you know, like, what are you doing? What are you doing?
- [55:43]
Megyn Kelly
It's amazing to me, like the amount of connections he had and people who are tight with him. I mean, you don't, you don't text somebody who you're not really close with on how exactly you should respond to the text messages you're getting from your would be lover. This is so humiliating. And yes, Larry Summers is now 70 years old, so, yeah, so he's a fully grown man. There's more, okay, on these Epstein emails and so on. In one that's being touted by the media. August 23, 2018, it appears to show Epstein, former Obama White House counsel Kathy Rummler, who I mentioned discussing Michael Cohen and the payments to Stormy Daniels. And you hear Epstein saying, you see, I know how dirty Donald is. My guess is that non lawyers, New York business people have no idea what it means to have your fixer flip. I know how dirty Donald is. And the media's running with this. It's like, okay, once again, if Epstein said anything to Michael Wolf about Donald Trump and there's a hundred hours of it on tape, you don't think Michael Wolf would have dropped that on the Halloween surprise he did six days before the last election? That's such bullshit. Nothing is there. And not to mention the fact you don't think Joe Biden would have dropped it when he was running against Trump, right, for reelection or Kamala Harris. Like, this is all they've bastardized the Epstein story to make it all about Trump, which is such. It's infuriating to those of us who actually do care about young girls and have a proven record of it, they can go fuck themselves with this.
- [57:13]
Maureen Callahan
They can. Here's my problem that I cannot get past. And I feel like, you know, why, why won't they release the documents? Why? Yeah, that's the problem. If there's nothing there. If there's, if you're exonerated why not release them? You know, if we were talking about the Biden administration, we would also be like, release them.
- [57:34]
Megyn Kelly
So you want Trump to call for them to be released?
- [57:37]
Maureen Callahan
Just do it.
- [57:37]
Megyn Kelly
I do, too.
- [57:37]
Maureen Callahan
Just do it.
- [57:38]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I do, too. And there's a reason, like, they got all of these from Jeffrey Epstein's estate. It's his emails. But we don't have the documents that are at the doj.
- [57:48]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [57:49]
Megyn Kelly
And maybe there won't be anything more interesting in there. I don't know. But it's very strange that Trump actually met with Lauren Boebert, tried to discourage her. Right, right. Like, at this point he should just say, let's do it. You know, there's not going to be anything in there. I, I don't believe there's going to be anything in there that's truly a smoking gun. I think it's bullshit. I think he just finds this stuff annoying, a distraction. And let's face it there, I, I feel like it's no accident the Dems released these yesterday after their humiliation in losing the shutdown standoff. They're like, pivot. Let's talk about Epstein and Trump.
- [58:25]
Maureen Callahan
Right. But what's interesting about it is it shows that both sides have their hands dirty. We've got top Obama officials dealing with Epstein. You know what I mean?
- [58:34]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, his White House counsel.
- [58:35]
Maureen Callahan
His White House counsel is, and again, as you said, well established. The guy was a pedophile. Well established. This guy was disgusting. Anybody who set foot in his townhouse saw those, Those artworks he had, which were all about, like, young women, sort of in sexual. It was all disguised. I mean, he was just showing you right there who he was. That portrait of Clinton in a dress with the high heels. It makes me wonder if the reason they're just not getting released is because there are far too many people of power implicated in those emails on both sides.
- [59:10]
Megyn Kelly
There's one in what was just sent out where this Katherine Remler, the Obama White House counsel, is ripping on Bill Clinton, suggesting she thinks he's a near psychopath. She says he is very close to being a psychopath. He has no conscience. It's scary, she says about him. This is an exchange he had with Jeffrey. Epstein calls Bill Clinton a liar, saying, my. My memory. He says, I stopped talking to Clinton when he swore with wholehearted conviction to me that he had done something he had forgotten, that he also swore the exact opposite to me only weeks before.
- [59:53]
Maureen Callahan
Who to feel sorry for here? A pedophile upset at the, you know, inability to believe a Career, lifelong politician with aims for the White House.
- [60:03]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [60:04]
Maureen Callahan
Who we all saw in the run up to that White House lip first bid. I did not lied about Jennifer Flowers. Jennifer Flowers had the tapes. One of my favorite pressers ever, when she stood in front of the world's media with the Star magazine behind her.
- [60:17]
Megyn Kelly
Jennifer with a G, just to be clear.
- [60:18]
Maureen Callahan
Jennifer with a G. And then I did not have sex with that woman. I mean, we've got them all like his greatest hits on tape. So again, if Jeffrey's such a genius, why are we so surprised we don't know who we're dealing with?
- [60:31]
Megyn Kelly
Well, this is another thing that seems to be emerging is that he was very well connected, but not quite as well as he said he was. Yeah, right. That he was dropping people's names left and right to try to make himself sound important. And he had just enough access that it worked, because he did. He did have some powerful friends. And that leads me to Prince Andrew. What do you make of the disclosures about him in here? Because there's one that I could argue as Prince Andrew's lawyer is helpful to Andrew.
- [61:00]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, really?
- [61:00]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. In that he's saying behind the scenes to Jeffrey, you got to put this story out like it's breaking about him with Virginia Giuffre and the arm around. He's like, I had nothing to do with this. You've got to get on top of this. Like, handle this, please. And then you see a lot of comments by Epstein being like, she's a liar. She. You know, she's. He said something like, she had sex with everyone but Elvis. And he's. He's mocking her listing, like, her long list of people she was allegedly trafficked to.
- [61:27]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [61:28]
Megyn Kelly
And that's them behind the scenes when it wasn't. Hadn't come out. You know, it's not like a public conversation. It's them behind the scenes kind of rolling their eyes at how absurd she is. And also Andrew being like, could you please get rid of this nonsense? Like, I don't want this. And, you know, I had nothing to do with it. Now, that could just be cover. Sure, totally. But I was like, if I'm repping Prince Andrew, I'm not opposed to this exchange being released.
- [61:52]
Maureen Callahan
I that. But my question would be, why in those. That email exchange, wouldn't Andrew have memorialized his later claim that that photo was doctored and he was never even there?
- [62:03]
Megyn Kelly
Well, that's the other thing that comes up that's not helpful. The photo's real. Epstein verifies that that photo is real. That Andrew's been telling us is a false photo since it hit the public airwaves. And he's had. What's happening with him. Mo, you cover on your show a lot. What's going on with the royals and Kinsey. She brings us our royal update.
- [62:22]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [62:23]
Megyn Kelly
And it seems like Andrew now could be facing criminal charges relating to financial impropriety. Alleged financial.
- [62:30]
Maureen Callahan
Alleged financial impropriety. Both Andrew and Sarah Ferguson. Sarah Ferguson, everybody knows, has been raiding the kitty of her charity for years.
- [62:41]
Megyn Kelly
Andrew, we do know. I didn't know that.
- [62:43]
Maureen Callahan
Allegedly. I should qualify that. But the latest reporting is that Andrew may actually and Sarah Ferguson leave the country to avoid any kind of criminal prosecution.
- [62:56]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, God. Are we gonna get stuck with them too?
- [62:59]
Maureen Callahan
No, they'll never come here. They'll never come back. But, you know, it's a lovely parallel because, you know, Megan has really come into full flower as not the second incarnation of Diana as she would so love to be regarded, but she's really Fergie 2.0.
- [63:16]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, I can see that. Much better role model for her and what she's become.
- [63:21]
Maureen Callahan
Mm.
- [63:21]
Megyn Kelly
She's as absurd as ever. She? Meghan Markle. Yeah. She showed up at the Kris Jenner 70th birthday bash with Harry and got her picture taken. And I'm just gonna be honest, she didn't look good in either shot.
- [63:39]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, everybody's been. This is the conversation I've been having all week.
- [63:42]
Megyn Kelly
Right.
- [63:42]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [63:42]
Megyn Kelly
She did not look good. Here's. We're putting it on the board. There's one with Kim Kardashian, who's in the purple, and then there's one with Kris Kardashian, who is in the red dress.
- [63:51]
Maureen Callahan
Meghan, can we stop for a moment here?
- [63:52]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [63:53]
Maureen Callahan
We're going to talk about this on the nerve. But if you look at the former photo, the first one where Harry is looking at Chris, if you look closely.
- [64:00]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, his eyes. Do you see where they are on her boobs?
- [64:04]
Maureen Callahan
And he looks wasted. Wasted. And Meghan, that's your prize, okay? That's your duke, your Prince of the blood. He's oglim killing a 70 year old woman.
- [64:16]
Megyn Kelly
It's so true. I hadn't considered that as one of the motivations for what we now know was a demand, reportedly by Megan, to take down these pictures. She was pissed that the Kardashians posted them. Meanwhile, what lunatic poses for a photo with a Kardashian and thinks it's not going to get posted?
- [64:36]
Maureen Callahan
Why are we alive? You know, to paraphrase Warren Beatty to Madonna in Truth or Dare, Right? If you're not on camera, why live?
- [64:42]
Megyn Kelly
Does it even matter?
- [64:43]
Maureen Callahan
Does it matter? So they go, the cost of entry. This is a blood oath you take. When you cross the threshold of any Kardashian Jenner enterprise. You're going to be exploited. Your image and likeness, you are signing it away. Just kiss it goodbye.
- [64:58]
Megyn Kelly
And so you know you will be exploited. That should be, like, underneath the entryway of every Kardashian event.
- [65:04]
Maureen Callahan
100, like South park, like, we want our privacy. You will be exploited.
- [65:07]
Megyn Kelly
We want privacy.
- [65:08]
Maureen Callahan
We want privacy. And so these two. So apparently now the Kardashian Jenners are extremely angry with the Sussexes for making this ad hoc demand when the cost of entry. I mean, Meghan, the driveway leading up to this thing was. They had hired, like, the best paparazzi in the business to take photos of all the guests coming in. This is how we got our favorite platonic couple, Oprah and Gayle, together. Right. Entering the Bezos Sanchez lair. They were the ones throwing the party for Chris, by the way. Jeff Bezos.
- [65:39]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, naturally.
- [65:40]
Maureen Callahan
Okay, so, you know, there's all theories about why Megan wanted to be in that party in particular.
- [65:45]
Megyn Kelly
Well, and so who shows up and then scolds the host, the birthday girl for having the photo with them? It's like, then don't pose for it, you idiot. Just say, I'd rather not.
- [65:55]
Maureen Callahan
How about don't go.
- [65:56]
Megyn Kelly
Right.
- [65:57]
Maureen Callahan
Don't even go. You know, the thing that struck me, too, about those images of Meghan entering, you know, Harry had her by the hand, but she was several steps behind, and she was beaming like, this was like her fullest self actualization. She's at a Hollywood party hosted by Kris Jenner. Now, if she had an iota of common sense, she would have realized that had she just stayed as a royal, it would have been the likes of Kris Jenner. Desperate to be in a room with her.
- [66:25]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [66:25]
Maureen Callahan
Desperate to be in a room with Meghan Markle. And how the tables have turned. And she's too. She's not as clever as she thinks. Yeah, she doesn't get that this is not good for her brand.
- [66:36]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. She's hawking her marmalade. And her friend Oprah just put it on her most favorite things, Maureen. Oprah loves the marmalade so much. It's a favorite of hers that came across totally organically. It was not bought and paid for by her. Choosing Oprah for her big reveal about the royal family being a bunch of racists. No, it's real for sure. And just to prove how real it is, our friend Link Lauren decided to order some of the orange marmalade just to see for himself if it was amazing and a favorite. And here's how that went.
- [67:15]
Link Lauren
I feel like I'm at fat camp, and they're, like, forcing me to eat vegetables or something. I don't know if fat camp is real.
- [67:20]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. No.
- [67:29]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no.
- [67:30]
Link Lauren
I literally feel my throat closing. Oh, my God. Orange marmalade tastes like crap. I. I actually feel sick. I. That's really not good. That's not good.
- [67:42]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, no.
- [67:43]
Megyn Kelly
He looks genuinely upset. Yeah, no, one more. He bought one of her candles, you know, that she was using the utensil the wrong way to make. I don't know.
- [67:53]
Maureen Callahan
Yes, that.
- [67:54]
Megyn Kelly
That we're not. But there is, like, some grabber thingy that grabs the candle, and she was using it the wrong way. I think it was the candle. But in any event, she was in the kitchen trying to use this. And Emily Zanotti, she was a great follow on X reliably tells me, and she's a great chef. She had it completely upside down. It was. She was not using it the right way. Our new Martha Stewart doesn't know how to use kitchen utensils. But apparent American needs to know she also cannot make candles, because here's what happened when Link ordered one.
- [68:26]
Link Lauren
No, you guys.
- [68:29]
Megyn Kelly
Taking it out of the box. You guys.
- [68:30]
Link Lauren
There's no lick. Producer Kylie. There's no wick.
- [68:36]
Maureen Callahan
Right?
- [68:36]
Link Lauren
Am I crazy?
- [68:37]
Michael Wolff
What?
- [68:37]
Link Lauren
Where's the thing that I light?
- [68:40]
Megyn Kelly
It's not there.
- [68:41]
Link Lauren
This has to be a joke. No, I'm not even kidding. I'm not kidding.
- [68:46]
Katherine Ruemmler
This.
- [68:46]
Link Lauren
You guys, this isn't. This isn't a stunt. There's literally nothing too light in here. No, it's not pasted down. My producers, in my ear. Is it pasted down? No, it's not pasted down. Zoom in. There's literally nothing. There's nothing to light on the candle. This is like Meghan Markle's career.
- [69:06]
Megyn Kelly
He. He tried to get a refund, and he's having difficulty getting his money.
- [69:12]
Maureen Callahan
You don't say. I mean, this is why I think she's. First of all, is that not the metaphor for Meghan Markle in particular? Like, there is no center. There is no through line.
- [69:21]
Megyn Kelly
There is nothing to light up.
- [69:22]
Maureen Callahan
There's no light inside.
- [69:23]
Megyn Kelly
There's no light.
- [69:23]
Maureen Callahan
There's no light. So in that regard, you know, chef's kitsch. She nailed it.
- [69:28]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [69:30]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. You know what? Is. Did you see. Did you see her announcement the other day about her Netflix holiday special dropping December 3rd?
- [69:36]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, God. What? We're gonna have to fire up the band.
- [69:40]
Maureen Callahan
I'm afraid we might have to. Some merrymaking she's doing. So it's. So it's dropping December 3rd. It's her. The tagline is something like honoring traditions and creating new ones. Some bullshit like that. But then I went over, right over to Netflix's Instagram to see there was no mention of the Megan special.
- [70:01]
Megyn Kelly
That's surprising.
- [70:01]
Maureen Callahan
Not surprising whatsoever. Although they did have some. Great. Somebody did grab it, and I have some. I'm gonna do some screenshots on the Nerve tomorrow of places where the comments are open. They're great.
- [70:12]
Megyn Kelly
Okay. Oh, good.
- [70:13]
Maureen Callahan
You know, she keeps her comments off permanently. Like a coward.
- [70:16]
Megyn Kelly
She does not want to hear what we have to say.
- [70:18]
Maureen Callahan
She doesn't want to hear what anybody has to say. No. Although, do you. I believe she definitely watched version one.
- [70:22]
Megyn Kelly
100%.
- [70:23]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [70:24]
Megyn Kelly
She's making veiled references to us in some of these interviews. I know. Yeah, it's fine. Keep it going.
- [70:29]
Maureen Callahan
I love it.
- [70:30]
Megyn Kelly
She should be on her knees thanking us. She.
- [70:32]
Maureen Callahan
If she were smart, she would be like, can I do one with you guys? Yeah, can I do a spoof of myself with you guys?
- [70:37]
Megyn Kelly
Didn't you say the only reason she's getting any views at all is because of rubbernecking from our mocking?
- [70:43]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [70:43]
Megyn Kelly
People are like, oh, now I want to take a look at what she's doing just to laugh at it. It's fun. It's comedy.
- [70:48]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. Oh, by the way, I've heard a rumor that Daniel the makeup artist is now on the out. Oh, her dear friend.
- [70:55]
Megyn Kelly
Her dear, dear friend for life.
- [70:56]
Maureen Callahan
Because the rumor also was that, you know, when she went to Balenciaga, which had its own pedophilia controversy, she had no problem with. No problem. Childhood bullying, online bullying. No problem. She allegedly flew first class and put Daniel the makeup artist in coach, her dear friend. Huh.
- [71:18]
Megyn Kelly
That is so on brand, isn't it? Yes. God, she's nasty. You'd think she'd be smart enough, to your point, if she's not that clever. Just for, like, looks sake, you know, just for the appearance of it, to upgrade the guy.
- [71:32]
Maureen Callahan
Right. Treat the people who are. Their job is to make you look the best you possibly can look, make them feel valued and make their travel comfortable. And this is. This always goes to my theory. This is my theory about Michelle Obama's people. I think they hate her.
- [71:46]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Because that Would explain a lot, wouldn't it?
- [71:49]
Maureen Callahan
Explain a lot. Like, her presentation is often, like, off.
- [71:52]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [71:53]
Maureen Callahan
Like that Robin Roberts interview she did in that, like, that huge denim leisure.
- [71:57]
Megyn Kelly
Suit was, like, so unattractive.
- [71:59]
Maureen Callahan
The shoulders were out here. You know, she's already got, like, a fill that's not quite the most feminine. Right. So what does her team do? They put her in, like. What do you call those things?
- [72:11]
Megyn Kelly
Shoulder pads. We've got to get a full screen of that, please. Let's drop that in for the YouTube audience so they see what we're talking about. All right, wait, I want to do one more on Meghan Markle, because we do have to get to Michelle Obama, but. And also Oprah. The other thing Meghan Markle's in the news for right now is she's found a whole new way for you to spread bagel. To spread cream cheese on your bagel.
- [72:35]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, really?
- [72:36]
Megyn Kelly
We need that. Like, weren't you every morning? Like, how. How do I get the cream cheese out of this container and onto this round circle? It's so challenging. Here. Here it is. She wants you to take the cream cheese out.
- [72:49]
Maureen Callahan
Okay.
- [72:50]
Megyn Kelly
And much like her pretzel trick, she wants you to just smear it on a plate. You see, you smear it on a plate and then you put shit on it. Like tomatoes, I think. And then you. Oh, flower petals, Maureen. It's the flower petals. It's the flower petals on your smeared cream cheese, which now does not come out of the container. It's on a plate smushed with random things on top of it. And then you put it on your bagel.
- [73:18]
Maureen Callahan
Okay? So we've upgraded from removing pretzels from one place plastic bag and putting them into another plastic bag.
- [73:25]
Megyn Kelly
Elevating.
- [73:26]
Maureen Callahan
Elevating. And our newest innovation is to remove the cream cheese from its container and plate it. Okay. I can't wait to see what she does with, like, a stick of butter next.
- [73:37]
Megyn Kelly
She's going to be telling us that our, you know, Heinz ketchup bottle, which has the nice, easy squeeze thing, ought to be smushed on our table, is some sort of rainbow display and scooped up by a knife to put on our burger.
- [73:49]
Maureen Callahan
I. I'm. I'm. I'm, like, kind of speechless. I'm kind of a God. Like, again, this is why I think everybody in her employ hates her. Like, and. And there's nobody who could say, that's not a good idea.
- [73:59]
Megyn Kelly
That's.
- [73:59]
Maureen Callahan
It's not a good idea. It's not. Let's. Let's let's put a pin in that and brainstorm something else, you know?
- [74:05]
Megyn Kelly
Right. No, truly, like, it's. What's so funny about watching her do these kitchen things is I often feel it would be like saying to me, could you show us some kitchen tips? You know, now I'm like, in there. Maybe we should smear the cream cheese on a plate. Maybe we should put the pretzels from one bag. Like, that is the shit I could come up with.
- [74:27]
Maureen Callahan
I actually am always very nervous about whatever knife I choose to try to cut a bagel in half. Like, I'm worried I might choose the right wrong and like, harm. Like, I like. I'm like you. I'm like that.
- [74:38]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. We're.
- [74:40]
Maureen Callahan
Slice it for me, it's tried. Bodega, whatever.
- [74:42]
Megyn Kelly
For lack of effort.
- [74:43]
Maureen Callahan
Not for lack of effort, but no, I would never put myself. And again, what is her lane? She's in this, like, she's in this domestic lane of. But now she's like, she's over at the Kardashians trying to. I mean, the rumor is she's like looking for more acting work now. We're getting back into acting, right? Oh, she. Apparently she infuriated whoever's producing that indie movie she's acting as herself in.
- [75:10]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, right.
- [75:10]
Maureen Callahan
Because they wanted to keep her cameo a surprise, but she leaked it because they have no self control and because.
- [75:18]
Megyn Kelly
She needs to see her name in headlines. She's really unhappy if not seeing enough press about herself. Meanwhile, if she had just stayed on Suits, you know, she might have had a decent career as an actress. Probably B list, whatever, at best for her. But so what, you're a working actor. It seemed to be something she really loved.
- [75:37]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [75:37]
Megyn Kelly
My kids actually like that show. Really? Yeah. They watch it on the reruns on whatever app it's on. And maybe she could have done that, you know, but instead she's got this thirst for fame and attention. It wasn't getting, you know, scratched because that was an ensemble cast. Maureen. Yeah, she actually wasn't the star of that. It has two males who are the main stars and she needs to be the lead act. That's why she couldn't handle suits and wanted something else. That's why she couldn't handle the Royal family, because she wasn't the main act there either.
- [76:11]
Maureen Callahan
Exactly. And it's a hole that will never, ever, ever be filled. Whatever dopamine hit she got from, like, showing up at Kris Jenner's. And when you look at those photos, she is beaming. I mean, Harry looks Miserable. And she is. I mean, I've never seen life force come out of her like that. But, you know, the dopamine hit is so evanescent because what does she do the next day? Call or text them and say, take my pictures down. Like, there's no satisfying her on. She'll never be happy.
- [76:37]
Megyn Kelly
Well, reportedly, Kim Kardashian was mad because, Kim, if there's one thing that woman knows, it's photos. And her. She was reportedly making the point that they got caught by the paps outside of the event. As you point out, it was all planned. They also posed for pictures at some, I don't know, benefit that they were at earlier.
- [76:56]
Maureen Callahan
Earlier, yeah.
- [76:57]
Megyn Kelly
Perfectly, happily. It was just at the Kardashian party that she was like, no, I want my pictures down. And I, I maintain it's because they actually, I thought were not flattering pictures of her. And you point out something even more important, which is Harry was staring at Kris Jenner's boobs, which no woman wants to see. I can see why you'd say, I'd prefer that not happen. And I'd prefer he not do that. I mean, truly. Like, it reminds me of the Lauren Sanchez photo at the inauguration where those men were staring at Lauren Sanchez's boobs. Mark Zuckerberg, I have to say, I really would put money on Doug never staring at another woman's boobs. Certainly not in my presence and not period. Because what the men of the Internet tell me, Maureen on X. Yeah. Is that there's an unwritten rule for all men. Some of them were making it in response to that photo that we just looked at. Like saying, harry, I know you want to do it. I know it's really calling to you, but no, no matter how badly you want to do it, bro, you cannot do it. Like, we all know.
- [78:02]
Maureen Callahan
So elemental, okay? So, so elemental. Now, this has never been my problem because I am not well endowed, so that's fine by me. But the thing that, that this photo, first of all, I would like to nominate this photo for photo of the year.
- [78:16]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Who, whoever got this.
- [78:18]
Maureen Callahan
This is, forget war torn Ukraine. This is the photo of the year. And why, I think is because we.
- [78:25]
Megyn Kelly
Got to zoom in on Harry's eyes.
- [78:27]
Maureen Callahan
The whole face is incredible. He's like, he's like slacked out. He's like googly. He's like, I'm like eight drinks in. You know, this is, this is not the first time he's done this. There's no way this is the first time he's Done this.
- [78:38]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, he's not saving it up for the 70 year old Kardashian.
- [78:41]
Maureen Callahan
No, no, no, no. I can only imagine the, the people, the luminaries we have been in contact with, who Harry has comported himself thusly. And this is actually who she's dealing with behind closed doors. This is a middle aged man, a prince who has been around high powered people. And like this is where the tether with Andrew comes in. It's just so sleazy and smarmy and immature. And this is the guy she goes.
- [79:08]
Megyn Kelly
Home with every night and doesn't this, this is like the yin to the yang of that fake. On my video the other day I called it the super bowl win, but it's baseball, so it's not the super bowl win, it's the World Series win when they did that fake.
- [79:26]
Maureen Callahan
Oh yes.
- [79:27]
Megyn Kelly
And he's sitting there like, oh my God, what the hell did I marry? How did I marry it? Why is it there bothering me again? Yeah, the, the contempt that like in his body posture, like as she's trying to get the room fake excited. Right. And only her friend is complying.
- [79:45]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [79:46]
Megyn Kelly
And he's sitting there like, oh, you know, like I need a drink.
- [79:49]
Maureen Callahan
He looks like he's lost the will to live in that image in that video. I've never seen. First of all, I don't. He was all alone. Like he has no friends. Like game seven of the World Series. A Super Bowl. That's when you have like your guy friends over.
- [80:04]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [80:04]
Maureen Callahan
And you order beer and pizza and junk food and you just, you just hang out. It's like a lazy, great, fun Sunday. It's one of those few monocultural events that are left. Right. And he's alone and he's got one arm slung over his head and they're like, the furniture is so grim. It's like lazy boy adjacent, you know, for like a royal. And she comes hopping over like. And you can tell he doesn't know what's going on. Like he doesn't know what's going on.
- [80:32]
Megyn Kelly
Right. He doesn't realize this is for a social media video. This is not real.
- [80:36]
Maureen Callahan
And he doesn't even seem to know what she's up to.
- [80:38]
Megyn Kelly
None of us did.
- [80:39]
Maureen Callahan
None of us did. And at first he puts his arm up like, like defensive, like, no, go, come in my space.
- [80:48]
Megyn Kelly
In which he spoke for us all.
- [80:50]
Maureen Callahan
For real. Like, yes, go. Yeah. And then, and then he realizes, oh, there's something. There's a tableau that I'm not aware of yet. But I better play ball. Like, he does seem a bit afraid. He seems. It's, it's, you know, again, like a corollary to Michelle and Craig. Brother Craig, very afraid.
- [81:05]
Megyn Kelly
So can I say this? I think. Oh, we, we have it. Okay. We can watch it since we're talking about it. Oh, yeah, let's watch it. Oh, my God. Eyes off of her almost immediately. I'm sorry. To the listening audience, this is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
- [81:32]
Maureen Callahan
He's not even stirring. Like he's heard this before.
- [81:34]
Megyn Kelly
No, he's not even remotely motivated to stand up and hug her or celebrate.
- [81:39]
Maureen Callahan
With her or tell her to shut up.
- [81:41]
Megyn Kelly
Not at all. So wait, what was I gonna. Oh, I think something is happening with them. This is my armchair analysis. You know, you've heard of trauma bonding. I think they convinced themselves that they were, you know, put upon, they were attacked, whatever, that they were in the midst of a trauma when they were first getting together or after they got married. Because the evil racist royal family, they couldn't be first. They were behaving like spoiled brats. They didn't like the size of their castle. They manifested it all into, we're getting bullied. We're not getting the things we want. They don't appreciate us. This alleged bullshit story about how he ran around saying she's going to kill herself and she did too. And everybody was like, no one cares. Okay, sure. And. And so, like, then they did Megxit and that was spun up into, like, trauma for them.
- [82:29]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [82:29]
Megyn Kelly
As opposed to what they were doing to the royal family and the, and the queen humiliating her. And now the trauma's kind of quieted down, Maureen.
- [82:36]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [82:37]
Megyn Kelly
The initial surge of hormones is quieted down and now the real people are stuck looking at each other.
- [82:44]
Maureen Callahan
Yes.
- [82:45]
Megyn Kelly
And from his look in that video and his look at Kris Kardashian and Kris Jenner, it seems pretty clear the bloom is off the rose. And now that they've just looked at each other without all those, like, ornaments to make it more exciting. Yeah, they're displeased.
- [83:02]
Maureen Callahan
I couldn't agree with you more. And you know, those, those.
- [83:06]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, there's a close up.
- [83:07]
Link Lauren
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
- [83:09]
Megyn Kelly
It's still so far away from us.
- [83:10]
Maureen Callahan
No, but you can, you can make it out.
- [83:12]
Megyn Kelly
Like, I saw it on the Internet when all the men were like, harry, you can't do it.
- [83:15]
Maureen Callahan
He's got like a half cocked grin. I mean, he's looking at her like an object, like a thing he could potentially purchase and take home.
- [83:23]
Megyn Kelly
Well, it is a Kardashian.
- [83:24]
Maureen Callahan
No, listen, I couldn't agree with you more, but it's so unroyal. You know, it's. And Megan, like an idiot, she's. She's either willfully ignoring it cause she's seen this happen before, or she doesn't see it, but she's got.
- [83:38]
Megyn Kelly
She's on a mission of her own. She's like, I need an ax. I need access. They could tweet something out for me about as ever. Next thing you know, I'm back on Oprah's list. Boom.
- [83:48]
Maureen Callahan
Was Chris Jenner, like number four in the initial. Remember that initial run of the Slimy Jam, as Kinsey calls it? And famous people got it and had to put it on Instagram and it was numbered like she was a dummy.
- [84:01]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, I forgot about that. Yes, yes. I don't remember.
- [84:04]
Maureen Callahan
But Chris was pretty high. Chris was pretty high.
- [84:06]
Megyn Kelly
Well, and they all. They need each other. Like Sanchez, Kardashian. She went to the space launch.
- [84:13]
Maureen Callahan
Right. But so interesting. Harry and Meghan were not on the wedding invite list.
- [84:20]
Megyn Kelly
That's true. Yeah. I hadn't considered that. You're right. Oh, that probably drove her crazy.
- [84:25]
Maureen Callahan
You know, they were all manner. It was sort of Meghan Markle esque in that. Like, you couldn't tell what this assortment of celebrities had to do with each other. Like, Tom Brady was there. Sydney Sweeney was there. There were weird, weird famous people who just, it seemed like a. Just like, let's get some names, you know.
- [84:43]
Megyn Kelly
Of course, we all know that's what happened.
- [84:44]
Maureen Callahan
But not those two.
- [84:45]
Megyn Kelly
Right?
- [84:45]
Maureen Callahan
They were Persona non grata. Nobody wanted them there.
- [84:48]
Megyn Kelly
One or both of the bride and groom were like, that is a bridge too far.
- [84:52]
Maureen Callahan
Exactly.
- [84:52]
Megyn Kelly
We want the Sydney Sweeney types, the legit stars, the Tom Brady's. We do not want these glommers in Montecito who. Whom are loathed by everybody. All right, standby. We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back. We have much more with Maureen and we've got to get to our friend Gayle King. Maureen's Got thoughts, Oprah. And much, much more. Don't go away. If you owe the IRS back taxes, they can garnish your wages and levy your bank accounts. They can even seize your retirement or take your home. But don't let the IRS target you. Call the professionals at Tax Network usa. Their tax lawyers and enrolled agents are experts in powerful programs that may even help you eliminate your tax debt. Tax Network USA is A plus rated and has saved over $1 billion for their clients. Whether you owe a few thousand or a few million, they can help you. In just one phone call, you can start the process of stopping the threatening demand letters, stopping the aggressive collections, and resolving your tax matters once and for all. But you have to act now while you still have options. For a free consultation, call Tax Network USA today at 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com Megan do not let the IRS be the first to act. We are going on the road. Join me live. Megyn Kelly Live. 10 stops across the country. Join me for no BS, no agenda and no Fear Live. I'll be joined by Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Glenn Beck, Adam Harola, Charlie Sheen, Piers Morgan, Donald Trump Jr. Eric Trump and Erica Kirk. Send a message that we will not be silenced. It's Megyn Kelly Live, presented by y Refi and SiriusXM. Go to MeganKelly.com to get your tickets now. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first 3 months months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get 3 months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get 3 months free offer details apply. Back with me now, Maureen Callahan, host of the Nerve. Go and subscribe on YouTube and all podcast platforms thenerveshow.com and buy tickets to to see us together live on stage. If you get the VIP package, I might be able to convince her to come and do pictures with us before the show starts. That is not this upcoming weekend, but the following weekend in California. Go to Megan Kelly.com to buy those tickets now. Okay, so we've been teasing it. Oprah and Gail, they were at the Kardashian event because of course. Right. And honestly, if Gayle would spend a little bit more time reading up on the news and trying to be a more fair and interesting anchor, I think her neck might not be on the chopping block over at cbs. But she would never do that because she lives to be Oprah's arm candy and to rub elbows with people like this. Your thoughts?
- [88:09]
Maureen Callahan
Well, I have many thoughts. Number one, we at the Nerve sent an email directly to Stuff on Monday asking if he was still alive and if so, to please tell us where he is and the state of his health. We've heard nothing.
- [88:22]
Megyn Kelly
So maybe that's your answer.
- [88:23]
Maureen Callahan
We're keeping a countdown because my second question is Gail and Oprah, what'd you do with the body? Where is it? This would be like my ideal Law and Order episode. You know, like a media titan and like her beta platonic friend, who they may or may not be more. But nobody can ask the people question, even though they're going to. Like the Bezos Sancho Sanchez wedding in Venice. And like, there is an image. Like, we couldn't run it, but, like, there's a photo you can find if you Google it. Oprah is sitting on a. On a picnic table, which is already gross, and she's got her foot up on the picnic table and Gail's bent over tying her shoelace.
- [89:02]
Megyn Kelly
I remember that. Yeah. Her beta platonic friend. That's just not what you want to be described as by anybody.
- [89:08]
Maureen Callahan
No. And then so she goes and does stuff like this, which is 1% stuff. She is the host of a morning show, ostensibly what average American wants to see. Gail swanning around with the Illuminati and then beaming into their. Their living rooms pretending like none of it happened. But yet Oprah is. Is coming in every month or something, shilling her favorite things or her book of the month or whatever Oprah is.
- [89:34]
Megyn Kelly
To the CBS Morning show what Hoda now is to the NBC morning show.
- [89:38]
Maureen Callahan
Yes.
- [89:39]
Megyn Kelly
Right. Like, I just come by to shellac my gear. Yeah.
- [89:42]
Maureen Callahan
I got an app. I got a motivational thing like make room for Me. And my favorite thing about Gayle was this, like, impromptu presser she did with TMZ after it was announced. CBS announced, like, we're terminating this when it's up in May, the contract and Gail's out there. That wind blown. You know how like 57th and 11th. It's just like this wind chord.
- [90:04]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, it is.
- [90:05]
Maureen Callahan
The wigs going everywhere. And she's going like, if they're going to fire me, say it to my face. But the wigs, like, blowing in her face, so you couldn't say anything to her face. It's amazing. I love Gayle King. She gives so much.
- [90:17]
Megyn Kelly
Well, yes. And look, she hasn't learned a thing from her spacewalk. So that's Gail. Now, these are not the most maniacal, narcissistic people in the news this week. Amazingly, that prize must go to Michelle Obama, who has been everywhere with this tour of her ridiculous book, trying to promote this ridiculous book. And we have a few latest soundbites of her, as you know, just very much like Karine Jean Pierre. She's obsessed with race. This is actually from her podcast, not her book tour. But here's a couple samples of what she's been saying these days about black women. SOT 17, we have to start educating.
- [91:02]
Michelle Obama
People about all kinds of beauty.
- [91:04]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [91:05]
Michelle Obama
And our beauty is so powerful and so, so unique that it is worthy of the conversation and it's worthy of demanding the respect that we're owed for who we are and what we offer to the world.
- [91:22]
Megyn Kelly
Absolutely. Oh, my God. It's not 1938. Like, we must accept that there are all kinds of beauty, Maureen, because we racist whiteies don't accept that any black person could be beautiful. She's so bigoted against white people.
- [91:40]
Maureen Callahan
She's so out of her mind. Like Naomi Campbell. Tyra Banks had, like, one of the biggest competitive reality shows going based on how to be a top model.
- [91:51]
Megyn Kelly
Whitney Houston, one of the biggest stars.
- [91:53]
Maureen Callahan
Of all time and one of the most beautiful. She started the Bodyguard, remember, with Kevin Costner.
- [91:58]
Megyn Kelly
She was, like, stunning.
- [91:59]
Maureen Callahan
Stunning. It was like an interracial romance for the Halle Berry.
- [92:03]
Megyn Kelly
Very thirsty for attention now, but very, very beautiful.
- [92:06]
Maureen Callahan
Let's go back to Diana Ross. Let's go back to who starred as Foxy Brown. I forget her name.
- [92:13]
Megyn Kelly
How about Zoe Kravitz? Like, yeah, stunner. And a huge star.
- [92:16]
Maureen Callahan
Anisha Bonet. Her mother, Lenny. Like, stop. Just stop. Just.
- [92:21]
Megyn Kelly
We can't accept them as beautiful because they're black.
- [92:24]
Maureen Callahan
Right, Right. You know, and Michelle's my favorite thing about Michelle. So first of all, she's talking primarily to white women who. She wants to buy this book. So she's saying to white women, you're racist. You have a limited concept of beauty. Spend $59, as I did. Cause I have to see the book, and they're never gonna send it to me for free on my book. This book is an ode to the awesomeness that is Michelle Obama.
- [92:49]
Megyn Kelly
What's in it? Is it just page after page of her.
- [92:51]
Maureen Callahan
Of her and her looks and her beauty and how she got to look this way.
- [92:56]
Megyn Kelly
And it's just.
- [92:57]
Maureen Callahan
Just. It's.
- [92:58]
Megyn Kelly
It's.
- [93:00]
Maureen Callahan
I'll never display it in my home. You know, I just. I just.
- [93:04]
Megyn Kelly
It's.
- [93:04]
Maureen Callahan
And I love a good coffee table book. Oh, my favorite thing is, she says she gave this interview to the New York Times in which the journalist, I believe, is also a black woman, went along with her contention that there never before in the 54 first ladies who came before her did a woman have such difficult hair to style. I can't now I will take umbrage because I consider myself something of an authority on Jackie Onassis. And her hair was so difficult to tame and so kinky. And it really was like, the, like, her hairstylists were like, you really do have, like, the texture and hair of, like, what we would consider black hair. And she wore wigs for the bulk of her time as first lady.
- [93:47]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, no way.
- [93:47]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. And, like, actually, Joan Kennedy let this. When she was first in the family, she wasn't, like, fully media trained. She's like, oh, yeah, Jackie wears wigs all the time. And, like, Jackie got upset because, like, her cover was blown.
- [93:58]
Megyn Kelly
I didn't know that.
- [93:59]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. So Michelle Obama can take a seat. The entire country adored her. And if she's so, by the way, on fire about, like, black women representing. And she's in full flower in her braids. Where are the braids on this media tour? Why are we styled like a white woman's hair on this media tour?
- [94:15]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. The thing about the hair is really annoying because she thinks it's only a black thing. Only black women spend hours on their hair, whatever, doing to their hair. That's not true. That's a woman thing. It's not a black thing. And by the way, some of us have toddler hair, and so it takes us a long time for that reason. Some of us like redheads. A lot of redheads who have curly hair have exactly the same issue that a black woman has. Like, it's, like, very coarse, and you've got to iron it if you want it to look soft and smooth and silky. A lot of Indian women have the same problem. It's a gift, in my view, to have that super thick hair. But they may not consider it that way. We all have an issue. You do not see everyone running around all the time bitching about it and asking for people to see us as, like, an oppressed group because it takes us a long time to do our hair. Maureen.
- [95:08]
Maureen Callahan
So this is my theory. I spend more time thinking about this woman than is healthy, I think. But she fascinates me in a morbid way. I think the only thing, it's a commonality with Meghan Markle for lack of anything really substantial going on inside any real talent to offer the world. Victimhood stands in for making one feel special and a part of. And so this differentiates me. And now, like, I must have a platform. I must make you come to me and understand. And again, it's a hole that will never be filled.
- [95:44]
Megyn Kelly
No. What is this?
- [95:45]
Maureen Callahan
Her third book about? How awesome she is.
- [95:47]
Megyn Kelly
I know. It's exactly right. Becoming. And now some. I think it's 304 pages, right? Something ridiculous, this book.
- [95:54]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, I haven't finished it yet.
- [95:56]
Megyn Kelly
Well, it's long and here's a little bit more. Cause she had more to say about white women. Side 18.
- [96:04]
Michelle Obama
It's just amazing how we don't see a lot of inspiration for our type of hair on television. And I think that that was a big part of that. Part of what kind of got me off on the wrong track in terms of loving my hair was because when we were growing up, we had no images. There were no images.
- [96:29]
Maureen Callahan
There was no photography, black hair, black.
- [96:31]
Michelle Obama
Characters, let alone black children. And I think that a lot of women don't. Women, white women don't understand how problematic it is for young black girls not to see themselves in popular culture and not to pay, give respect and to show examples of our beauty.
- [96:53]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God. Black people are literally everywhere. They are so outpacing their number in the actual population, it's absurd. You cannot turn on the television without being bombarded with commercials that have only black people in there.
- [97:07]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, that's okay.
- [97:08]
Megyn Kelly
Never have only. Yeah, you can never have only whites in them. What is she saying they don't have? She is talking like we are 50 years ago. It's 20, 25. Almost 26 black people are making movies, starring in movies, making commercials, starring in them. TV shows, radio, everything. All over the Grammys, all over the Oscars, all over the Emmys. Like, she doesn't want to accept that we've made progress on this front.
- [97:30]
Maureen Callahan
No Beyonce, Jay Z, Black. Ish. One of the biggest shows of the past 20 years. Abbott elementary, one of the biggest shows. Scandal, one of the biggest shows. There was a show that was Viola Davis. I forget the name of it. It was like Anatomy of a Murder or something. But one of the most arresting episodes that went beyond its place in just network television and became a cultural thing. There was a scene where, very close up on Viola Davis where she was removing all of her makeup, and then she removed her wig. And you saw like, you know, a black woman without all the artifice in it, but it also just stands for womanhood as well, without. Without all the artifice. So she's like, teleporting in from again, like, another century. I don't know what she's talking about. It's so aggressive.
- [98:10]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I grew up. When she grew up. Like, she's a little older than I am, but, like, there were plenty of black families on Television back then, you know, oh, my God.
- [98:17]
Maureen Callahan
Good times.
- [98:18]
Megyn Kelly
We lived for the Jeffersons in my house. Love the Cosby Show. Hello. We were all raised on the Cosby Show. Like, what is she. Why is she pretending? Truly, Like I said, It's 1938. We have no television. We have no representation. We have no blacks anywhere doing anything of note. And all of society isn't appreciating how hard it is for little girls like Michelle Obama because of what you said. She needs to feel victimized. And, you know, you get these people across from her could. That was her podcast. But any of these interviewers, they're never going to do anything other than bend the knee to Michelle Obama. Her talking about her oppression as a black woman, they're like, yes, I need it more. You know, Right. It's like estrogen or what's the word? I'm looking at endorphins. Maybe estrogen, too. All right, we're gonna get another one. Hold on. Yes. Okay. This is an oldie but a goodie. We never got to this the other day. She's still on the hair. This is her going on and on about the issue to ABC in your favorite outfit. SOT19.
- [99:18]
Michelle Obama
That was intentional to wear her hair this way. It was like having me, the former first lady, a black woman, show up in the world in her natural hair. Even if I didn't do it for those eight years, I understood the importance of doing it at some point and signaling a message to young girls and to professionals out there.
- [99:41]
Megyn Kelly
It's in a bun.
- [99:42]
Michelle Obama
Stay out of our hair. You know, we're just trying to get to work and do it fast and efficiently. Don't tell a black woman how to wear her hair. How I wear my hair should be my choice. And it shouldn't be illegal. It shouldn't be something that can't be done if you're part of the military.
- [100:00]
Megyn Kelly
Okay, so it's illegal now. And by the way, who's telling her, like, you're the first lady of the United. You can wear your hair however the fuck you want. If you were to cowardly to wear it the way you wanted, that's a you problem.
- [100:14]
Maureen Callahan
So my favorite, again, proof to my theory that her team hates her. She wears her hair, as you said, however the fuck she wants. She wears it in pom poms on top of her head. What you call the stegosaurus.
- [100:25]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, like the stegosaurus. Yes.
- [100:27]
Maureen Callahan
You know, it's like. It's not. It's. It's. It's not a good look. It doesn't look good for her. And again, if it's that consequential, as, by the way, the first black lady that this country cheered for, everybody was rooting for you. What's that like? What's that famous meme like? We were all, it's from America's Top Models, Tyra Banks going, we were all rooting for you. Why doesn't she have braids in her effing official White House portrait? Yes, do it there.
- [100:53]
Megyn Kelly
And why isn't she wearing them for her big tour where she wants to talk about braids at every stop.
- [100:56]
Maureen Callahan
Do it there.
- [100:57]
Megyn Kelly
I know. All right, now listen, we are going to wrap now. Maureen and I are gonna continue this and we're not gonna do it on Sirius xm because normally we will because this is the Megyn Kelly channel. Now we can. But our after show is just getting started. And so we don't want to be rude to Emily and to the callers who want to call in. So we're going to let them take that. And we will continue this on podcast and on YouTube.com and then once everyone gets settled into their roles here and figures out exactly how, how we're supposed to use the MK channel, we will continue this so that our SiriusXmers do not have to miss the back half of the conversation. So forgive us, we're figuring it all out. But in the meantime, to hear the end of our conversation, go to YouTube.com Megan Kelly or just find us on podcast. And thank you all so much for listening. Tomorrow we're going to be airing our show with Eric Trump, Kali Means and Piers Morgan. Enjoy that. As President Trump is settling into his new administration, one of the top Democrats in Congress aiming to undermine the Trump agenda is Senator Dick Durbin. And according to our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, Senator Durbin has a new scheme, a government takeover of your credit card. Today, Americans have thousands of choices in credit cards, but they say Senator Durbin's plan will result in less competition and less security. And that means more risk for your credit and identity. Learn more@guardyourcard.com and consider telling your senators to stop Dick Durbin's government takeover of your credit card before it's too late. And we are back right here at. It's kind of a combo of the Megyn Kelly show and the Nerve. It's the nervy MK show with Maureen Callahan. So let's keep going. There is okay news about Kim Kardashian. Just forgive me, I don't usually do news about Kim Kardashian. But now we already touched on her once. I've got to talk about this as a recovering lawyer myself. Oh, yeah, she's trying to become a lawyer. It's not going well.
- [103:01]
Maureen Callahan
No, she.
- [103:02]
Megyn Kelly
It. It would help if she could go to law school.
- [103:05]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [103:06]
Megyn Kelly
But apparently she can't get in or just decided to try to take the shortcut, and that's not going well. There is a provision in California, as there is in other states, that allows you to get your legal education through an apprenticeship. If you can find a lawyer who will take you under his or her wing and you can do, like, enough hours and enough training that you can pass the bar, they will allow it. So after your first year of that, you will have to take something called the baby bar to prove that, like, you're coming along.
- [103:39]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [103:39]
Megyn Kelly
She's failed it three times, and I guess try, try again. She must have passed that because most recently she took, she says, the actual California bar exam and failed it, of course, to no one's surprise. And here she is reacting on her show. This is where her focus is now, having failed it and humiliated herself again on her show in SOT 36. I'm just letting you guys know that all of the psychics that we have met with and that we're obsessed with are all full of. But they all, collectively, maybe four of them, have told me I was going.
- [104:19]
Maureen Callahan
To pass the bar.
- [104:20]
Megyn Kelly
So they're all full. Pathological liars. Don't believe anything they say. That's her takeaway, that the psychics were wrong?
- [104:29]
Maureen Callahan
Well, you know, it's further proof of her native intelligence. You mean to tell me that people that you pay to tell you what you want to hear and that all of your fantasy, these will come true if you just wish for them hard enough? They were not right.
- [104:41]
Megyn Kelly
They were liars. That's what she said. They lied.
- [104:43]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. They were just trying to make her happy. This is a very strange endeavor for me. I don't understand it. Her desire to become a lawyer. Is it her issues about her father?
- [104:56]
Megyn Kelly
Maybe.
- [104:56]
Maureen Callahan
You know, and.
- [105:00]
Megyn Kelly
Here'S what I think. She is desperate to be taken seriously now.
- [105:03]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [105:04]
Megyn Kelly
And I have news for you, Kim Kardashian. It is never going to happen. You cannot be taken seriously when you start your career by showing your vagina. It's an unwritten rule. But it is a rule. Releasing your sex tape with somebody performing oral sex on you. It's a no. We're just never going to take you seriously. And then you, with the nude photos and the Ginormous ass and the general frivolity of your life. It doesn't matter. You could. You could get a physics PhD and we would not take you seriously. We know that. Exactly how you became famous. Exactly how you're all over our magazines and our newspapers and our television. And you should just be happy with that because you're not going to do it. You're not going to convince anybody, even if you manage to squeak out a passage of the bar, that you are a serious person who we should listen to.
- [105:53]
Maureen Callahan
Have you seen any of the new Kim K. Slash Ryan Murphy drama All's Fair on Hulu?
- [105:59]
Megyn Kelly
We have. We have a clip. I haven't seen it, but let's. Let's take a look. What's a clip of All's Fair? Do we have that, you guys? Yeah. SOT 38, I guess. Let's take a look. No, it's not about what was done to you.
- [106:11]
Maureen Callahan
It's about where it was done.
- [106:15]
Megyn Kelly
In the corner of the frame, barely.
- [106:17]
Maureen Callahan
Visible, just sticking out underneath the bed.
- [106:19]
Megyn Kelly
An envelope. A blur, but now an address.
- [106:24]
Maureen Callahan
1546 East Grand.
- [106:27]
Megyn Kelly
It's a resident.
- [106:28]
Maureen Callahan
Okay.
- [106:30]
Megyn Kelly
His 43 year old single son.
- [106:33]
Maureen Callahan
I handled a class action suit against his father. A Ponzi scheme.
- [106:39]
Megyn Kelly
I'm very sad to see Glenn Close involved in such a thing.
- [106:42]
Maureen Callahan
Me too. You know, Damages was like a great legal show that ran for a long time and she was phenomenal in it. She has better.
- [106:50]
Megyn Kelly
Jagged Edge, Fatal Attraction. I mean, some of the best movies ever.
- [106:55]
Maureen Callahan
Those great 80s movies that we were talking about not too long ago. So I tried to watch at least one episode of it and I couldn't get through it. And my real problem was Kim Kardashian. She comes across as really dead inside. Like there's no light behind the eyes. There's no inflection in any given line reading whatsoever. Like 1576. Oh, that's the address. Like that's.
- [107:22]
Megyn Kelly
You could see it there.
- [107:22]
Maureen Callahan
The delivery. She comes across as somebody who is just a mere physical vessel. And we know her too long. That is what she is. She's injecting fat into every sort of, you know, the bum, the breasts, whatever, the lips. She looks like a hybrid of a human being.
- [107:42]
Megyn Kelly
She doesn't look fully human, Doug calls her. And like Angelina Jolie, he said they look like Mr. Potato Head. Like it just. You inserted some weird enlarged body part on their heads.
- [107:54]
Maureen Callahan
That's really clever. That's true, actually. Like that. The sort of. The huge mouth. Like out of nowhere, there's like this huge mouth and it's just, you know, I think this is why I find the Kardashian Jenners so beyond disturbing. And it goes back to what we were talking about with Harry and Meghan. It is a soulless enterprise. Like I really, like, I analogize like walking into that party is like walking into like the final scene of Rosemary's Baby. Like you've just capitulated. You're like, I'll throw my lot in with the demons and the Satan worshipers. Because over here, that's all. That's all that matters is money and fame and power. That's it. That's it.
- [108:30]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I think that's probably why her daughter north continues to make news for her weird piercings. And like the one thing was just body art, but now it appears she's actually gotten a weird piercing. She's only 12.
- [108:43]
Maureen Callahan
She's only 12.
- [108:44]
Megyn Kelly
Like my 12 year old is a sweet little boy who's a sixth grader who is innocent and adorable and like not provocative, not weirdly sexual at an inappropriate age. Like, I don't. I just think these people need to stop with like the non stop parties and the constant on camera reality TV show stuff and maybe just parent, maybe just be there for them.
- [109:08]
Maureen Callahan
I was looking at images of Northwest funny on the way over here and I was having the same thought. You know, my goddaughter is 12 and she's so sweet and she has this real self awareness of like not wanting to grow up too fast, you know, which I think is so smart. So I don't really worry about her because I think her head is on straight at a very young age. And I look at Northwest and I. So this is my theory. You know, she's got multiple shades of blue extensions and hair. She is for her age, she seems not as slender as the Kardashians make themselves to be.
- [109:45]
Megyn Kelly
Thank God they're not putting her on the Ozempic at the stage.
- [109:48]
Maureen Callahan
No, I couldn't agree.
- [109:48]
Megyn Kelly
No, I know, but you know, I couldn't agree. She has what, the body that they would have if they weren't on the.
- [109:53]
Maureen Callahan
Shop and that they would hate themselves for having. Right? So this is the message that a Northwest is getting. I look, I'm not like them. I'm not up to par, right? I'm not their example of womanhood which is highly sexualized. Like, what are we doing out there if Prince Harry's not ogling our breasts at 70 years old? Like, why live as a woman, right? And so I think her way of differentiating Herself. And legitimizing herself as a member of this family is to turn herself into kind of the weird one. The one with the piercings, the one with the markings, the artsy one, the one who doesn't, because of her, whatever her artistic leanings may be, doesn't have to conform to a standard of womanhood that this family adheres to to a point that feels cult like.
- [110:37]
Megyn Kelly
Remember when we thought Kanye was the weird one?
- [110:40]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [110:41]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, like, suddenly he looks like the best parental influence and not Kim Kardashian. I really don't know. But I hope. I hope it works out. I really do. I hate. I certainly don't want any ill will on anybody's children. I just think, what are the odds for these poor kids being born into that family? However, our real scorn has to be saved. I'm sorry to tell you, but it does for Apple Martin.
- [111:06]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, yes.
- [111:07]
Megyn Kelly
I don't even feel bad about it because she appears to be a confirmed bully who got booted out of Harvard Westlake, this very fancy, rich school in la, allegedly for bullying.
- [111:19]
Maureen Callahan
Reportedly. Allegedly. And this story has been very stubborn and has never been denied by Gwyneth Paltrow or her father, Chris Martin. The story goes that Apple and it's very hard for a Nepo kid to get kicked out of schools.
- [111:32]
Katherine Ruemmler
Very.
- [111:33]
Maureen Callahan
You know, you got enough money, you can make any problem go away. She allegedly bullied a female classmate to the point where this girl tried to allegedly take her own life.
- [111:43]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God.
- [111:43]
Maureen Callahan
Or she walked up very close to it, and the school said, you're out, you gotta go. And then she wound up graduating, I think, from Crossroads in la, which was where Gwyneth graduated from.
- [111:55]
Megyn Kelly
So we know she had for a time been at Harvard Wesley. She graduated from a different school. That's interesting.
- [112:00]
Maureen Callahan
And she couldn't get into any Ivies either. She's at Vanderbilt. Moses, her brother is at Brown. Ivy Lake. Becoming good nonetheless.
- [112:08]
Megyn Kelly
Becoming a good little liberal.
- [112:10]
Maureen Callahan
Well, listen, from what I hear, I have it on very good authority that Moses is actually a lovely kid, very talented, very kind, and has no interest whatsoever in becoming famous.
- [112:19]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, Brown will beat all those qualities right out of him.
- [112:22]
Maureen Callahan
You're probably right. That is probably right.
- [112:24]
Megyn Kelly
Honestly, like, if I really, really wanted my kids to become Jew haters, I would send them to Brown. That.
- [112:30]
Maureen Callahan
What about. Yeah, yeah.
- [112:31]
Megyn Kelly
It tied.
- [112:32]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, both.
- [112:33]
Megyn Kelly
Both. But, like, that's where you'd go. Yes, I know just the school for you. They will totally indoctrinate you into far left thinking they Will make you a wonderful little far left progressive who can't stand Jews, who can't stand conservatives and ultimately can't stand their parents either.
- [112:49]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [112:49]
Megyn Kelly
You know, I would just never do it. Never, never, never would I go to Brown. Allow my kids to go to Brown. I'd be like, you're paying it for yourself and we're not visiting for four years. That's a lie. I'd see them. I'm addicted to my children. So Apple Martin, she was in the news recently for this horrible singing. We talked about this a bit, but I do want to play this. Stop. 41 karaoke. Okay, we get the gist. She's totally off key.
- [113:30]
Maureen Callahan
She's awful.
- [113:31]
Megyn Kelly
She's even worse than we were when we did our space adventure and tried to recreate the I forgot what a Wonderful world singing. Yeah.
- [113:37]
Maureen Callahan
I must have trauma blocked it out, but.
- [113:40]
Megyn Kelly
And I heard on the nerve you played the song as she released it like a week later. Auto tuned, totally on key with everything.
- [113:49]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, yeah. Sounding like a real chanteuse.
- [113:52]
Megyn Kelly
And to me, this is such evidence of a set of parents that never just told her the truth.
- [113:58]
Maureen Callahan
For real?
- [113:58]
Megyn Kelly
You can't sing for real.
- [114:00]
Maureen Callahan
You're not good at it.
- [114:01]
Megyn Kelly
Sorry.
- [114:01]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, by the way, your father, who's a global rock star, he may know some vocal coaches want to put in the hours.
- [114:07]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, right. We can make that happen for you.
- [114:10]
Maureen Callahan
No, why would you. Why would you put in work? Megan, she clear.
- [114:13]
Megyn Kelly
Nobody would get up there and sing like that if they knew that's how they sounded.
- [114:16]
Maureen Callahan
No, of course not. It is such, such, such a glittering example of terrible parenting. She's been told her whole life, you're great.
- [114:24]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [114:24]
Maureen Callahan
You're special, amazing at this. You know what? If you want to do this for a living, get right on up there. You could do it. It actually makes the same thing with the modeling career.
- [114:33]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, God.
- [114:34]
Maureen Callahan
Same thing with the modeling career. It makes me wonder what Gwyneth, the, you know, the mother daughter rivalry and what may be going on with Gwyneth. Because if you really, really loved your kid, your daughter, why would you ever expose her to this kind of public ridicule and scorn? Gwyneth's been in the game since she was a teenager. She grew up in this. Her mother was an actress. Her father was a very successful producer. She knows exactly what's going to happen to her daughter in the same social media age.
- [115:01]
Megyn Kelly
She's part of it because she's a snob. Gwyneth Paltrow is a snob. You know, this. I've heard you talk about it and we've done reporting on it too. She was like scoffing at Brad Pit because he didn't know the c. The right caviars to eat. It was just ridiculous. She's so proud of the fact that she went to Spence in New York, which is a great school. Our daughter went to Spence for the. For elementary school before we moved out here. It's a great school. It's a very woke school now. But look, it's. There's a contingent that goes there that's absolutely wonderful. And there's a contingent that goes there because they have like a family like Blythe Danner for the mom and they have a ton of money and they, you know, get accepted. And I would submit that's likely why Gwyneth Paltrow got there.
- [115:43]
Maureen Callahan
Yep.
- [115:44]
Megyn Kelly
In any event, Gwyneth, I think is encouraging this because I saw her at that ridiculous debutante ball, like in Paris, Right. Where they don't even live.
- [115:55]
Maureen Callahan
Yep.
- [115:56]
Megyn Kelly
With Apple Martin, who was reported to be bullying people there too. And that's just not something you would do. Like, if your child is humble, it's because you've made sure of it as the parent.
- [116:09]
Maureen Callahan
Yes, yes. Apple was caught on camera forcing another Deb out of the frame and being like, it's me. I'm the star. I'm the star. I'm the. I mean, she's insufferable and she's. She's trying to launch herself as a model on the back. Her mother is the one. It's a very. I think this is a very effed up dynamic. I really do. I think there is something dark going on with Gwyneth. And Apple. And Apple as a kind of competition that must be squashed very early. Very early. This girl is not a model. No. Gwyneth is like this. Okay. Gwyneth is like this. This girl is a little zaftig. You know, it seems like it's her natural body set point. She wants to be like a little bit larger. She has these eyes that are very spaced, very far apart and not like in a Kate Moss way. In a way that like one eye's looking off over here, like, always awkward. She can't be a model. Like, I'm sorry, it's in the job description. You know, Michelle Obama would say Apple's oppressed. I would say Apple just doesn't have what's in the job description. But, but why Gwyneth would push her out there so early?
- [117:12]
Megyn Kelly
Because she needs it. Right.
- [117:14]
Maureen Callahan
Is he Saying she needs the validation.
- [117:15]
Megyn Kelly
Same reason parents ruin their children's high school by being like, you've got to get into Harvard, study more. Put down that remote. There'll be no super bowl watching for you. You know, like, get back to the books. Yeah. They raise these kids who have no personalities but are perfect SAT scores. Like, that's. I totally disagree with it, but it's because of their egos. They want the Harvard bumper sticker. They want the flag, you know, from Brown or wherever that they can fly on their front flagpole. And I would submit it's the same thing with this. Like, Gwyneth is too smart to not understand what those industries will do to a young woman. Why you would take your own child and say, yeah, model. I always joke with my. With my daughter Yardley, who has zero desire to model. But, like, when people like, oh, she's so pretty, and people just being nice about whatever, she. You know, she should model. I'm like, or I could just get her hooked on heroin at home. Like, I just give it right to her.
- [118:08]
Maureen Callahan
Right? Right. You know, like, she's such a pretty girl.
- [118:10]
Megyn Kelly
Like, why would I ever want my child to join that industry?
- [118:14]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, my God. No. My. My brother had the same exact reaction with my niece from very young age. It was like there were people wanting her to model, and he was like, never, ever not happening. And for that very reason. And it's. That's such a good point. It hadn't occurred to me, but Gwyneth, who went public with what she went through with Harvey Weinstein, okay. You know, and she was a Nepo, like her godfather, Steven Spielberg, you would think she would have been protected from that. So she knows that there's no amount of parental prominence that will protect you from predators like that. Okay? They're gonna get to you. Somehow. You would think she would say, apple, maybe. Why don't you go for something a.
- [118:50]
Megyn Kelly
Little bit less study tech or English lit or something that will help you use your brain and develop actual confidence.
- [119:01]
Maureen Callahan
Right.
- [119:01]
Megyn Kelly
As opposed to trying to backdraft between behind two parents who are very successful, whose careers, let's face it, you will never emulate.
- [119:09]
Maureen Callahan
Right?
- [119:09]
Megyn Kelly
You will never match in those particular fields. I mean, the odds are overwhelming that it won't happen. Sometimes the sequel can be better than the original. But, I mean, you can count on one time, one hand, the number of times it's happened. Godfather. I don't. I can't think of another one.
- [119:22]
Maureen Callahan
Michael Douglas.
- [119:24]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. Okay, I accept. Versus Kirk. I got that. Yeah, yeah, that's okay. But it's very rare, very rare. So why not encourage her to do something that is completely different? Right. It's because I think your ego needs it. You get a jones off of seeing her like, oh, chip off the old block. And it gives you a chance to relive your youth. You know, Shakespeare in Love when she won the Oscar. It's like she can come and be the elder stateswoman now at these events. Like Gwyneth is here with her offspring.
- [119:52]
Maureen Callahan
This is such a fascinating debate because I wonder if let's for thought experiment. Apple was a prodigy. Apple had acting chops that surpassed her mother. Apple was more beautiful than her mother. Is Gwyneth as promoting or is Gwyneth more like, I can't have you eclipse me. Is her ego that, like the egos are at that level are so difficult to divine?
- [120:19]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, that's so true. I don't know the answer to that. That's true because unfortunately a lot of people have mother daughter tension because the mother does see the daughter as competition, competition. And that can ruin a lot of mother daughter relationships. But I don't know, I'm trying to think like Kaia Gerber is she, I don't think she's more beautiful than Cindy Crawford was in her prime, but she's just as, I mean, Kaia Gerber's like fall over stunning to look at.
- [120:41]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [120:41]
Megyn Kelly
But Cindy Crawford and her husband Randy Gerber seem like decent people to me. Like that seems to be, I don't know, they. You never hear about like, he's all over the place cheating on her. She doesn't show up at the Kardashian things. You know, Kai is a model, but who wouldn't make Kya a model? Like, that's one that's like staring you in the face if you don't. She's like 7ft tall. The body and the Cindy face. You disagree?
- [121:08]
Maureen Callahan
I don't know. So I, I'm of two minds about it because it's like, first of all, she is like a little Xerox version of Cindy. Right. And I feel like that you would have to, you'd have to approach that very delicately. Like you don't have to go into that industry because I was that successful in that industry. Cindy had a spark that I find Kya does not. I feel like a lot of these younger models, they are dead behind the eyes. Kendall Jenner, who bought a new face, is dead behind the eyes.
- [121:34]
Megyn Kelly
She did buy a new face.
- [121:35]
Maureen Callahan
Millie Bieber, who bought a new face, is dead behind the Eyes. I haven't seen Kaia Gerber's original face, but I would bet there's been some work done. Most of those girls at that level, really, they've had some work done.
- [121:45]
Megyn Kelly
I don't know. I feel like I've been watching that one since she was little because of Cindy. And she looks. She's always been just stunning. But I don't know. Like, I respect the couples who I don't hear anything about.
- [121:55]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [121:55]
Megyn Kelly
You know?
- [121:55]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [121:56]
Megyn Kelly
I know that they did their tequila and all that, like, whatever. That's. That's business. But I appreciate the fact that Cindy Crawford is not in the trade rags all the time.
- [122:03]
Maureen Callahan
She's not.
- [122:04]
Megyn Kelly
She seems to be like, quiet mothering, which I appreciate, by the way. Speaking of this group of people, do we believe that Kylie Jenner was dumped by Timothee Chalamet? Chalamet. Or do we not?
- [122:18]
Maureen Callahan
I believe it. You know why?
- [122:19]
Megyn Kelly
Why?
- [122:20]
Maureen Callahan
Timmy's got a movie coming out in a few weeks called Marty supreme co starring Gwyneth Paltrow is his much older lover.
- [122:27]
Megyn Kelly
Right.
- [122:27]
Maureen Callahan
And Timmy wants the Oscar, and it's not happening. If we're together with Kylie Jenner, it's not happening. She's gotta go.
- [122:33]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, that's ruthless.
- [122:35]
Maureen Callahan
Megan. I know this works.
- [122:37]
Megyn Kelly
Come on. I know. Oh, my gosh. Well, yeah, it was reported by the Daily Mail that he dumped her and then she liked a post of his online. So other mags were speculating maybe they are still together. That was her way of clapping back against the Daily Mail. It's very rare that the Daily Mail has it wrong.
- [122:57]
Maureen Callahan
It's rare that the mail has it wrong. And also, if it weren't true, why wouldn't he. Like, why wouldn't they make sure to be photographed together immediately?
- [123:04]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [123:04]
Maureen Callahan
Or put something up on social media immediately just to, like, push back on those rumors. Like, who do you think? Here's what I think he's going to do. I think he's going to take his mom to all of these events. All right, that's the play. That's the play. We take mom.
- [123:18]
Megyn Kelly
So last but not least, tomorrow we're on tape, which is just fortunate because we've been airing our tour interviews on our Fridays, and I mentioned this to you a little in the commercial break. We are doing something here called fakesgiving. Oh, yeah, we do it now. This is our third year running, and I highly recommend this to everybody. Fakesgiving is the fake Thanksgiving where all of our relatives, or most of them, not all of them, but many of our relatives are coming, and we all celebrate Thanksgiving together a week or two weeks early before the actual holiday. And the reason this started was after my sister died, her kids are all in their 20s or early 30s now, and we wanted to be together as a family. But they're all young. They're starting their careers, or they just got married, and so they have their own independent obligations that they. They need to see through. Like, if not on Thanksgiving, though, some of them do have to work as they're young on holidays, then right around it and. Or they want to go to their spouses, you know, all that. So I was like, why don't we just move it back a week or two, and then we can all be together, and then everybody on the actual holiday can do what they need to do. And we love it. It is such a great gathering. There's no pressure. You can get a caterer because you and I don't cook so much more easily two weeks before Thanksgiving than you can on the actual Thanksgiving. Trust me, I know. And there's, like, it's a little warmer. There's no travel pressure.
- [124:44]
Maureen Callahan
So true.
- [124:45]
Megyn Kelly
Nothing. No packed airports. No packed streets, you know, highways. So it is a true joy. And I. It also gives you the added benefit of you kind of get to celebrate Thanksgiving twice.
- [124:57]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [124:57]
Megyn Kelly
I don't cook, so that's a plus for me. Right. People at home who actually cook are like, that's not a joy. What are you saying? But I'll have the caterers do this, and then the actual Thanksgiving will probably wind up going out to this place that. That does it. But anyway, it's a family tradition that we started a few years ago. Highly recommend.
- [125:13]
Maureen Callahan
I love that. I have. I have friends who have, like, at least two Thanksgivings, and it's a similar thing. It's sort of like you do the one that's, like, the. The more formal one.
- [125:26]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah.
- [125:27]
Maureen Callahan
And then you do, and it seems like you're.
- [125:28]
Megyn Kelly
You're.
- [125:29]
Maureen Callahan
You're doing something similar. Well, not formal so much, but then the second one is sort of, like, much looser. And it's not on the day. It could be after the day. It could be before the day, but everything about it just feels looser and more fun because there's also no, you know, we're gonna do an episode before Thanksgiving on the nerve about all the anxiety that comes leading up to Thanksgiving and how to deal with, like, your own freakouts about, like, difficult family dynamics or, like, that one relative who's always there, who everybody hates or, you know, there's always something, but it. The messaging we're always getting is, like, Thanksgiving's just the best holiday there is. It's family, and it's. You know, it's like, it's. I mean, you come from an Irish family. You probably understand the. The stuff that can go on on a Thanksgiving. But I love it. And I'm always part of a. Of a second Thanksgiving because I have my friends throw it, and it's. It's always the best.
- [126:21]
Megyn Kelly
I have to say. I absolutely love it. And then the holiday comes, and I feel very little stress. Right. Because it's like, I've already. I've already hosted the event. And one other thing I want to say. We don't have a huge dining room table in our house. You know, we're only a family of five. It seats maybe 10, or I guess you could go 12 with a table expander. Anyway, I don't entertain a lot, as you can hear, but I really have no idea how many people can sit at my dining room table. But anyway, for this, we do have a large foyer for some reason in our house. I don't know why the foyer is so big, but we remove, like, the front hall table, and we take four of those. Like, you know, the tables that you would set up if you were doing, like, a concession stand outside of a, you know, bake sale, that kind of thing. We take four of those, and we put them in a big square and we cover them. And then we get just, like, those little. I don't know how to explain it, but like, a wooden post with, like, a bottom that is sturdy, that won't fall over, like a round bottom that's kind of heavy. And then the post comes up and it. And you can kind of make it come up as much as you want anyway. And then we string the white fairy lights between the four posts. It is, like, the easiest way to make a large, fun dining room table where everyone can see each other and still converse.
- [127:43]
Maureen Callahan
That's so cute.
- [127:43]
Megyn Kelly
I. I think I am, as ever.
- [127:46]
Maureen Callahan
You might be more. You know, let's, like, let's bookmark this for with love, Megan, Holiday edition.
- [127:52]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [127:52]
Maureen Callahan
Like, let's string some lights and, like, show everybody just how easy it is to be the consummate hostess.
- [127:57]
Megyn Kelly
Exactly. I'm actually very proud of my fakesgiving plan, and trust me, if I can do it, you can do it. Anyway, I'll see you after fakesgiving. I look forward to the fakesgiving or Thanksgiving reveal on the nerve.
- [128:12]
Maureen Callahan
Well, thanks.
- [128:13]
Megyn Kelly
I love talking to you.
- [128:14]
Maureen Callahan
I love talking to you.
- [128:15]
Megyn Kelly
All right. And I'll see you in Anaheim.
- [128:16]
Maureen Callahan
See you in Anaheim.
- [128:17]
Megyn Kelly
You can see us all in anaheim. Go to MeganKelly.com to get tickets right now. And don't Forget, subscribe to thenerveshow.com thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.