Next Deportation Actions, RFK's Nomination Battle Ahead, and New Baldoni Audio, with Tom Homan, Mark Halperin, and Dan Turrentine | Ep. 993

Summary

Summary of "The Megyn Kelly Show - Ep. 993"

Release Date: January 28, 2025
Title: Next Deportation Actions, RFK's Nomination Battle Ahead, and New Baldoni Audio, with Tom Homan, Mark Halperin, and Dan Turrentine

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1. Immigration and Border Security with Tom Homan

[00:00 - 08:34]
Megyn Kelly opens the episode by highlighting the Trump 2024 campaign's focus on securing the U.S. Southern border and overhauling the immigration system. She introduces Tom Homan, President Trump's appointed border czar, who discusses the significant increase in ICE operations since Trump took office.

Key Points:

• Increased Arrests: Within the first week of Trump's presidency, ICE has arrested over 3,500 illegal immigrants, a number that has since surpassed 4,000.
• Multi-Agency Collaboration: Homan emphasizes cooperation with agencies like DEA, FBI, ATF, and U.S. Marshals to enhance public safety.
• Strategic Operations: Focus on apprehending immigrants with criminal backgrounds, totaling over 600,000 individuals with criminal convictions in the country.

Notable Quote:

Tom Homan [03:52]: "We're operating throughout the country, concentrating on public safety threats and national security threats."

2. Public Support and Media Portrayal

[08:34 - 12:35]
Kelly underscores the widespread American support for Homan's initiatives, citing polls where 87% of Americans favor deporting immigrants with criminal records. She criticizes sanctuary cities like Chicago for allegedly spreading misinformation about ICE operations.

Key Points:

• Public Mandate: Strong bipartisan support for deporting criminal immigrants.
• Media Criticism: Claims that left-wing media misrepresent ICE's actions, creating undue fear.

Notable Quote:

Megyn Kelly [08:34]: "The vast majority of Americans want illegals deported, period."

3. Confirmation Hearings: RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, and Cash Patel

[36:16 - 88:10]
The conversation shifts to upcoming confirmation hearings for key Trump administration nominees: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFKJ), Tulsi Gabbard, and Cash Patel. Kelly brings in Mark Halperin and Dan Turrentine from "Two Ways, the Morning Meeting" to analyze the prospects of these nominations.

Key Topics:

• RFK Jr.'s Nomination:

  • Controversial Past: Discussions around RFKJ's history, including allegations from his cousin Caroline Kennedy, which Halperin and Turrentine argue may not significantly impact his confirmation due to his strong public support.
  • Policy Focus: Emphasis on RFKJ's initiatives to improve public health and combat corporate malfeasance in the pharmaceutical industry.

• Tulsi Gabbard's Confirmation:

  • Bipartisan Challenges: Gabbard faces skepticism from both Democrats and Republicans. Concerns include her past affiliations and policy positions.
  • Strategic Positioning: Her focus on national security and reforming intelligence agencies aligns with Trump's agenda, potentially aiding her confirmation despite opposition.

• Cash Patel's Confirmation:

  • Smooth Process: Patel is expected to face fewer hurdles, backed strongly by the Republican majority and his qualifications for the FBI role.

Notable Quotes:

Mark Halperin [38:44]: "His nomination will hinge on how he does in the hearing—whether he comes across as a visionary or a kook."

Dan Turrentine [40:15]: "Smart Democrats who respect the issues he champions might vote for him to reclaim their stance."

4. Media Criticism and Representation

[69:35 - 84:41]
Kelly critiques mainstream media outlets like CNN and The New York Times for biased reporting and misrepresenting figures like Elon Musk and political nominees. She highlights perceived double standards and the media's role in shaping public perception against Trump administration figures.

Key Points:

• Media Bias: Claims that media outlets unfairly target conservative figures while downplaying or misrepresenting similar actions from their own side.
• Public Perception: Argues that media portrayal affects the confirmation success of Trump nominees by swaying public and senatorial opinion.

Notable Quote:

Tom Homan [82:50]: "He's focused more on a technology approach, which is the future approach. No better person to lead that technology than Elon Musk."

5. Other Stories: Justin Baldoni and Captain America

[85:46 - 94:01]
Kelly provides updates on celebrity news, including the fallout between Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively. She also comments on Anthony Mackie's portrayal of Captain America, expressing discontent with Hollywood's representation of American values.

Key Points:

• Justin Baldoni Incident: Reports of mutual apologies and misunderstandings between Baldoni and Lively regarding alleged harassment claims.
• Cultural Representation: Criticism of Hollywood figures for not embodying the patriotic ideals depicted in their roles, particularly in the Captain America franchise.

Notable Quote:

Megyn Kelly [93:58]: "They want us to hate these Hollywood stars. You know, like Snow White... Captain America, who appears to hate the country."

6. Trump's Executive Actions and Policy Proposals

[64:05 - 84:41]
Discussion revolves around President Trump's recent executive orders and policy proposals aimed at strengthening national security and reducing federal influence.

Key Policies:

• Iron Dome Missile Defense: Initiative to construct a state-of-the-art missile defense system to protect Americans.
• Military Reforms: Orders to eliminate transgender ideology and critical race theory from the military.
• Deportation and Immigration Enforcement: Enhancements to ICE authority and collaboration with military resources to secure borders.

Notable Quote:

Tom Homan [31:32]: "We've cut ICE loose. Day one, we're out there making our country safe again."

7. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

[88:08 - 89:17]
Kelly wraps up the show by emphasizing the effectiveness and integrity of Tom Homan, criticizing mainstream media's handling of his initiatives, and previewing upcoming discussions with guests Mark Halperin and Dan Turrentine on Trump's administration actions.

Key Points:

• Support for Homan: Kelly praises Homan as the right man for securing the border despite media antagonism.
• Media Failure: Continues to argue that corporate media undermines Trump's policies by misrepresenting key figures.

Notable Quote:

Megyn Kelly [89:05]: "This is why corporate media is such a fail, such a failure. You've got these losers on CNN looking for their star moment."

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Conclusion

Episode 993 of The Megyn Kelly Show delves deeply into the Trump administration's immigration policies, highlighting significant strides made under Tom Homan's leadership. The show critically examines media portrayals of conservative figures and explores the challenges surrounding key nomination hearings for RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, and Cash Patel. Additionally, the episode touches on cultural narratives within Hollywood and underscores the administration's aggressive stance on national security and immigration enforcement.

For a comprehensive understanding of the topics discussed, listeners are encouraged to tune into the full episode on Sirius XM Channel 111.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn [e-mail] welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and our new normal. So much news overnight to bring you. We begin with the single biggest issue of the Trump 2024 campaign, the promises on which he's making good by the day. Securing the US Southern border and fixing our broken immigration system. In just the first week of Trump's presidency, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has arrested more than 3,500 illegal immigrants. ICE has conducted operations in multiple states across the country with a focus on national security and public safety threats. It is incredible to see our brave law enforcement officers taking action to make our country safe again. And joining me now, for the first time, the man behind the entire operation, President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan. Here is a shocking truth about New Year's resolutions. Whether you want to lose weight, improve your energy, or beat that embarrassing post meal bloat, nothing works if your gut is not healthy first. That's why for 2025, I want to introduce you to Just Thrive Probiotic. Most probiotics die in your harsh stomach acid before they can do much good. Just Thrive Probiotic is the only probiotic clinically proven to arrive in your gut 100% alive. That means better digestion, healthy immunity, great energy and easy weight management. It comes in capsule form or berry flavored gummies. So there's an option for everyone in the family. Plus, it's backed by an industry leading 100% money back guarantee. Love the way you feel or get a full product refund, no questions asked. Ready to transform your health in 25? Just visit justthrivehealth.com and use the code Megan for 20% off your first 90 day bottle. That's like getting a month for free. Justthrivehealth.com promo code Megan here's to your best health with Just Thrive. Tom, welcome to the show.

[Tom Homan]

Hey, thanks for having me. I'm a big fan. I've been following you. You're a stone cold patriot, so I'm happy to be here today.

[Megyn Kelly]

That means a lot coming from you, Tom. I'M a huge fan of yours as well. I'm almost reluctant to keep you off of what you're doing for 30 minutes, but we have to do it because you have us updated on what's happening. Because it's just delightful to hear about all these bad guys finally getting swept up and kicked out. Let me start with this. Is that about right now, the running total, are we about. About 3500? Are we up to 5000 now? Where are we?

[Tom Homan]

No, I think, I think we're beyond 4,000 as of today, but I don't have the exact numbers with me. But look, you said it, right? We're operating throughout the country, concentrating on exactly what you said. Public safety threats and national security threats. And there's some collateral risk, but that's what you gotta expect in sanctuary cities. We can't arrest a bad guy in the jail. We gotta go to the neighborhood and find him. If he's with others, others that may not be a criminal priority, but they're in the country legally. They're coming too. So we've arrested a lot of bad guys. A lot of public safety threats are taken off the streets. So Chicago, New York, Denver, they're all safer cities today because of what ICE and numerous agencies, right? We got dea, FBI, atf, US Marshals, hsi, ero. So a lot of these cities are safer today. But we're not done. We just get started.

[Megyn Kelly]

How do you figure out. Because I know you're prioritizing right now, the ones who are also criminals, on top of the illegal immigration, criminal problem that they have, but they've committed a murder, they've committed a rape, they've. They have child pornography, something like that. So how are, how do you find these guys, Tom? I mean, like, was this on the table for Joe Biden's team all along and it was just a matter of, like, picking up the files and going to get them?

[Tom Homan]

Exactly. Right. Look, ISIS is really good at this. These people don't want to be found. But there's ways to find them. I can't speak to the specifics because law enforcement sensitive, but they could have found these people last year. But the administration simply tied ice's hands. And first time in the history of my career, Starting back in 1984, Ice had handcuffs on them. So President Trump, he kept his promise to the American people. We cut ICE loose. Day one. Day one, we're out there and they're able to go arrest targets they could have arrested the last four years but weren't allowed to. But we've opened that aperture and they're out doing the job now.

[Megyn Kelly]

Is it going to be harder or easier when you move on from the criminal, criminal phase to the they're just criminals because they broke our immigration laws phase and start getting those folks?

[Tom Homan]

Actually, I think it's going to be easier. The reason I say it's easier because criminals, they're street smart, they know how to hide, they know how to play the game. They don't have a cat and mouse game. But as we open that aperture up, as we look for the 1.4 million illegal aliens in this country who had due process at great taxpayer expense, they've been ordered removed by a federal judge, but simply didn't leave. They're not as street savvy as the criminals are. So I think the arrest will increase as the aperture widens. So, but again, we want to take every public safety threat, every gang member off the streets. So we're really concentrating that right now. But the aperture will open and the operations will expand throughout the nation.

[Megyn Kelly]

Do we have an idea of how many are in the first group of, you know, like, truly bad hombres who you're getting who have committed other crimes?

[Tom Homan]

Over 600,000 illegal aliens are walking the streets of this country with a criminal conviction. So we have a big tranche that we need to go find. So there's no lack of business. And that is why President Trump's vision was all of government. That's why we have DOD with us standing shoulder to shoulder soldiers on the border. That's why we have dea, FBI, atf, US Marshals helping on these operations throughout the cities. Because the more resources we get from the other agencies, the more teams we can create. Each team, you only need one or two people with immigration enforcement authority, Title 8 authority to actually make the arrest legally. The rest of them can be law enforcement officers that cover the back door. Add officer safety, address, officer safety concerns. Because it takes a whole team to arrest somebody on their turf. Will they have access to who knows what weapons? So this is exactly what we're doing. We're not hiding it. I mean, I've been talking about this since day one. We're out there. We're not going to apologize for doing it all in government approach. It makes sense. Especially I just, I just got back from Chicago. I, I actually was up there on that operation and it was great to see. We find that, we find the alien with dope. We got DEA to prosecute case. We found TDA members with guns. We get atf, prosecute the case. And of course, ice, they prosecuted their own immigration, whether it's reentry after deportation, which is a felony. By having all those resources at the table, not only are we arresting the bad guys, we're criminally prosecuting them first, then we'll deport them.

[Megyn Kelly]

You know what's amazing is you have such support for what you're doing right now. You sit down with the left wing media and you would never know that the vast majority of the American people are 100% behind you. And what you're doing right now. In particular, the vast majority of Americans want illegals deported, period. Irrespective of whether they've committed another crime while here. But when you ask them, how about those who actually have criminal records? Listen to this. New York Times Ipsos poll. New York Times Ipsos poll January of 2025. 87% of Americans want immigrants who have who have committed crimes deported. That includes 83% of Democrats. 83% AP NORC poll January 2025 do you support deporting all immigrants who are here illegally who have been convicted of a violent crime? Uh, you've got 89% of Republicans, 77% of independents, 79% of Democrats favor that. I mean, it's just a clear mandate what you're doing right now. But what we get instead is these sanctuary cities like Chicago, boo hooing Tom Homan so mean he's sending these terrible agents into our children's schools to harass 8 year olds. Which isn't true. Let's just start with that. That what they've said about what you did in Chicago is a lie.

[Tom Homan]

Exactly. Thanks. For cities, these politicians. I don't care what they say. I don't care what they think of me. I've never cared what people think of me. I'm going to do the job. And you can, you can fear monger all you want and call me all the names you want. I'm going to get this job done for the President who's given a mandate by American people. So continue to hate. I'm okay with that. If I get to live in their minds rent free, that's kind of cool. But look at the whole thing. In Chicago, you got the Governor Pritzker on social media talking about ICE agents raiding in elementary school. And he says I'm putting fear in the community. What a ridiculous statement to make as a governor. You think he'd make a phone call and ask on the truth on this? Because he's the one that's scaring the immigrant community. He's the one that's scaring children and thinking we're going to raid elementary schools. Look, I've made it clear we have taken the sense of location policy and flushed it down the toilet. Why? Because ICE is the only law enforcement agency in the nation who had these type of requirements. We can't operate in hospital or school or other sensible. A courthouse, for God's sake. Right. I've been in courthouses many times throughout my career, and I watched a father getting arrested in a courthouse for not paying child support. But you're not going to let ICE in a courthouse arrest a public safety threat or a national security threat. Totally ridiculous. And ASA said last night during my interview with cnn, there is no safe harbor for a national security threat or public safety threat in this country. If they're on a college campus, we're going to go get them. If it's an MS.13G gang member that's sitting in a high school someplace and he's a significant public safety threat, he's going to be arrested. So there's no safe harbor, there's no sanctuary for criminals, public safety threats and national security threats in this country. And that's why we got rid of that sense of location policy. No one's going to raid a school. No one's going to raid a hospital. But we will make arrests when we need to on a significant case.

[Megyn Kelly]

I read that you think the Illinois governor and the Chicago Public Schools CEO, Pedro Martinez, owe you an apology for spreading these lies. They came out and said, well, you read in part what the. What the governor said. But he said, after a week of Republicans sowing fear and chaos, the first reports of raids in Chicago are at an elementary school. Targeting children and separating families is cruel and un American. And then you had this guy, Pedro Martinez, make similar false claims. Have you received an apology?

[Tom Homan]

No, they don't owe me an apology. They owe the men and women of ICE an apology. It's like I hear last night, I forget who, talking about the Holocaust and connecting this with the Holocaust, for God's sakes. What a sickening thing to say. Men and women of ICE aren't making this up. They're enforcing laws enacted by Congress. And I hardly believe that Congress is enacting laws and passing laws they don't want enforced. Not only are they enacting laws that tells ICE what to do, they're budgeting. They give us the money to do that. So they owe the men and women ICE an apology because men and women ICE put their lives on the line every day across this country, they put a gun in head, they wear a Kevlar vest. They're out there taking on the bad guys. And a sanctuary is already a dangerous job. With sanctuary cities is even more dangerous because now, rather than arresting the bad guy in a jail where we know he hasn't weapon, doesn't have weapons, we know it's a safe transfer. Now we got to go to the streets and find them, because sanctuary cities. So all the risks that these ICE agents take and all the other agencies that are involved, dea, FBI, hf, they deserve the apology. Because if they did anything in Chicago, I was there. We didn't scare children. We saved children. At the last count, when I left that command center, we had like seven sexual predators, mostly child sexual predators, Child sexual predators that we took off the streets of Chicago. So ICE protected children. We're not out there to demonize them or scare the hell out of them. We protected children. And Governor Pritzker, you put the children at risk because not only did lie about going to elementary school, you released sexual predators of children back on the streets to reoffend. ICE is saving children. Governor Pritzker has put them at great risk.

[Megyn Kelly]

What actually wound up happening was it was Secret Service responding to a specific threat, reportedly that they had received from a school, and they just decided that it was ICE and to demonize you and your team because they have political reasons for doing that, notwithstanding, As I say, 87% support Republicans, Democrats, independents across the board favor mightily what you're doing now, and also favor by a clear majority, 55 to 60%, depending on the poll. Your next step, which is going after illegal immigrants who have not been convicted of crimes. Let me talk to you a bit about the numbers, because 600,000 people who, you know of, who are here, illegal and on top of it, have committed crimes. And then 1.4 million, you said people who were adjudicated no. On their asylum claims. But then we didn't throw them out. We just said, oh, well, you didn't get asylum. But then Joe Biden did nothing. So they just went on living their merry lives in the states. So that's 2 million right there. And then that doesn't even count all the others.

[Mark Halperin]

Right.

[Megyn Kelly]

Who just sneaked across the border. And we know they're here, but we don't know where they are. So this is where I start to get depressed, Tom. I listen to you talk and I feel uplifted, but then I start to get depressed because even though you guys are doing yeoman's work and you're finally all working together. Let's call it a thousand a day. You know, that's, it's not quite there, but let's just call it a thousand a day. And I did a little math, which is a stretch for me. That brings us to 365,000 in a year times four years. That brings us to 1.46 million. So that's less than the 2 million we just discussed those first two groups over four years, over Trump's four years. Which makes me think, ah, how are we going to get all these people out? You know, we're talking between 12 and 20 million illegals in the country right now. I know it's big, but how do we digest those numbers?

[Tom Homan]

Well, there's a lot of plans in the works. I'm working on a lot of plans, a lot of strategies, but we gotta bring, like I said, the whole of government to the table. Right? We got 3,000 sheriffs across this country that we can easily delegate Authority, give them 287 GE authority, both the jail model and the task force model. That is a huge force multiplier. Right. So if we can get them 287 GE authority and they can act as ICE agents every county in this country, those deputies could not only arrest illegal aliens based on database check things simply run through our law enforcement support center, they can actually do 287 jail models, which means everybody that goes books into jail. That's what 287 is. It's colorblind. Every person that's booked into jail, if I get arrested and I get booked into jail, my prints will be run through ncic. At the same time, they're running against DHS databases. So if I have any history with it, border patrol or ICE, it's going to pop up. And if the 287 trained facilities, they can actually process that person, hold them for the immigration hold and we can arrest them. So we can certainly expand immigration enforcement throughout the country. That's one plan. Another plan is we need to be out there messaging to the illegal immigrant community that, look, if you're in the country legally and you haven't received the deportation order yet or you haven't been arrested yet, you need to leave the country. Because if you don't, if we have to put you in the court and get a formal order removal, there's a bar that's put on you. So whether it's from anywhere from five to 20 years that you can't reenter this country, you can't get a business Visa, you can't get a tourist visa. If you have a US citizen child here, he can't petition for you. So you are locked out. So if you're here and don't have order removal yet, leave, do things the right way. If you have a US citizen child they can petition for you down the road. But we need to keep pushing that message out. We also at self deport we need to push worksite enforcement. Number one reason they come in. Look, nine out of ten people that come to the border claim asylum. Nine out of ten is actually 86.7 people that claim asylum at the border will get an order removal because they simply don't qualify for asylum. They're coming here for a job or a better life and I get that. But they're not escaping fear and persecution from their home government because of race, religion, political affiliation. So that nine out of 10 are here for a job. Worksite enforcement, we're going to hit that hard. So we're going to arrest a lot of people, work sites, we need i9s, we need to e verify and i9 enforcement. Congress needs to get to the table. The American people have spoken. This is a clear mandate to the president. Passive verify. If they can't get a job, they're going to go home. So there's all these different programs we're going to throw in place to help us get to that magic number of getting to the non criminals. Because if there's no consequences, if they don't see people coming home, they're going to keep coming. They need to see plain loads of illegal animals being returned to the homeland to let them know the border's closed. If you want to come to the country, there's a right way and wrong way. Go, go the right way because there are millions of people standing in line right now taking their tests, doing their background, paying their fees to come to the United States the right way. There are thousands of tens of thousands of people in the world that really are escaping fear and persecution from the home government because of race, religion, political affiliation that are sitting in the backseat. So these are the systems we need to fix to drive illegal immigration to an all time low in this nation.

[Megyn Kelly]

What kind of incentives, if any, should they be potentially offered to make them self deport? I've heard smart people say we don't want to pay these people anything. But if you calculate what it takes, Tom Homan and team, all the agencies you just named, you know, on a, on a per immigrant basis, it's a lot of money that we're expending to go after these guys. What if we could come up with a way like, I don't know, I'm just picking a random number, like two grand. If you return to Guatemala, you know, here's a big check waiting for you. Get out and get down there and we'll work with the government to make sure these people get paid. I know it sounds outrageous to pay the. But like better just to get them out of the country. And if, if they could self deport, it would make it a whole lot easier on you guys. Is that crazy talk?

[Tom Homan]

No, that's been discussed. It's an option. We're looking at what the pros and cons are. But you're right, it would save the taxpayers some money. And there are other things helping them get their affairs together, giving a window of 30 days the non immigrants, non criminals to put their affairs together and supply transportation back to their homeland. There's also talk about creating real opportunity zones in those countries. So when they go back, they're going back to a job differently than every other administration though. We got to make sure the money goes to the right people. This has been done. Billions and billions of dollars being sent to these countries to create opportunity zones so that people don't feel like I leave the country, come back. That money doesn't get where it needs to go because of corruption of government officials and so forth. So that needs to be drilled down on the Department of State. We're talking about this. So what you just said, there's discussions going on. I'm looking at pros and cons and what may work best. But it's not off the table. We're thinking about it.

[Megyn Kelly]

What do you, how would you describe what our military is doing right now? Because they're not allowed to do law enforcement. But I hear that they're, you know, they can drive trucks at the southern border, they can transport people or things. So how do you see the military helping now? Because finally we have a presidential order commanding that dhs, Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense coordinate to help stop this.

[Tom Homan]

Look, and they should because I think what's happened on the southern border and even Christopher Wray, not buddies, would by any means, even he agrees to me that the open southern border is the biggest national security vulnerability this nation's ever seen. We know we had over 2 million known got aways. These people were captured on video, drone traffic or central traffic. We know they're here. It's not a guess. We got images. Over 2 million people crossed the border and got away. They paid more to get away. They didn't pay the cartels less money because cartels would charge one fee to get to the border. You see a green uniform, turn yourself in. Cartels jobs ends well. If you want to get away, then you want to get to New York, Chicago or into the United States without being arrested or processed. That costs a hell of a lot more money. So American people need to ask themselves, why did 2 million people pay more to get away? Why not pay less and get a free airline ticket to the city of your choice? Get a free hotel room, get three meals a day, get free medical care and get work authorization within 920 days. Why would you pay more? Not to take advantage of the giveaway program? Because they don't want to be fingerprinted. They don't want to be vetted. We arrested. There's been a 3,500, 3,500% increase in people on terrorist watches being arrested at the border. How many? 2 million people.

[Megyn Kelly]

Say that again. 3500% increase in. Say it again.

[Tom Homan]

And terror watchless suspects being arrested on border under the Trump administration. Four years, we had 14. There were 400. And that's just the southern border. So this is a huge national security vulnerability. So I think DoD is doing exactly what they should do. It's a national security issue. They need to secure this country and protect our national security. So I said from day one, they're a great asset, right, because they can do things that don't require an immigration authority, immigration officer that has a badging gun, transportation. For instance. We can take ISIS officers who have immigration enforcement authority out of the bus or out of a plane and let DOD do that. That releases more immigration officers to the streets. The rest of the bad guy, they can help us with infrastructure down there. Pointing Constantino wire up and border bearers, they're doing denial of entry. So they're being a great asset. I've done this since 1984. I started in Borbato since 1984. This weekend, for the first time in my life, I saw an army plane, a military plane, removing Illinois and southbound. That was a beautiful sight because it says to all of the government, all of the government is going to increase the national security of this nation and secure that border. Secure border saves lives. Secure border helps increase the level of national security we need in this nation. There's a lot of people in this world want to hurt us. And securing that border and removing the bad guys, it's going to help us be more Safe.

[Megyn Kelly]

How dangerous is this work? You know, we saw just this past weekend in, it looks like Fronton, Texas, there was an exchange of gunfire between U.S. border Patrol agents on Monday. This was near the U.S. mexican border. Nobody was actually hit. But these are suspected cartel members. I just can't imagine. And here we have some video. I cannot imagine being the guys who actually have to confront the cartel members to shut this gig down.

[Tom Homan]

It's very. Look, the job's already dangerous. I mean, I was in one shooting in the Border patrol back in 1987. Only time I ever had to do something like that. Most agents don't get involved in the shooting. But as I told the White House, it's going to get worse. The criminal cartels of Mexico, no one celebrated the President Biden's election more than they did because they knew they're back in business. They're making a record amount of money in sex trafficking women and children. They're making a record amount of money smuggling aliens. They're making a record amount of money moving dope in the country, especially fentanyl. President just designated terrorist organizations because he's going to wipe them off the face of the earth just like he did the Caliphate, right? The isis. He destroyed them. They need to be destroyed because they've killed more Americans than every terrorist organization in the world combined. They're not going to go away quietly. There's going to be more. We're hitting them where it hurts, in the pocketbook. They don't have the money. They can't pay off the Mexican military. They can't pay off the Mexican politicians and the judges and the prosecutors. So taking their money away is angering them. We're going to put them out of business. They're going to fight. They're going to go down fighting. And they're already got access to military grade weapons. They have no sense of life and respect of life. There's going to be more violence on the southern border. So I go to bed every night hoping that the men and women wearing that uniform go home safely to their families. But it's only a matter of time until that violence increases. Which means we got to give again. Put 100% focus on these cartels to put them out of business, shut them down. Mexico's not going to do it. I know I get in trouble by saying that Mexico hasn't dealt with them in three decades. And it's going to take the United States to put the cartels out of business permanently. So we got to get that done quickly.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tom, I have to ask you. It's not just Selena Gomez. I know you've seen the clip of her crying and she got so much blowback from her fans, her 422 million dollar million number followers on Instagram that she deleted it. But I, I really, you're the best person to ask about what she and others like her are missing. She's. She purports to be so concerned about the children who Tom Homan and his team are going to deport. And I honestly, with, with all fairness to this hysterical person, I really think she's missing the full story. Here's the clip for those of you who haven't seen it.

[Mark Halperin]

Just wanted to say that I'm so sorry.

[Megyn Kelly]

All my people are getting attacked and.

[Tom Homan]

Children.

[Megyn Kelly]

They don't understand. I'm so sorry. I wish I could do something, but I can't.

[Tom Homan]

I don't know what to do.

[Mark Halperin]

I'll try everything, I promise.

[Megyn Kelly]

What is she missing?

[Tom Homan]

Well, look, she's famous, has a lot of followers. I wish she'd message to Mexico and other countries that this isn't a way to enter the country legally. Right. Quarter million Americans dead from fentanyl that comes across that border. I'm sure many fans of hers. 600% increase in sex trafficking in women and children. There are women and children in this nation right now forced into sexual slavery. Some of these children won't survive. So cry for them. Cry for the quarter million Americans die for fentanyl. Cry for the families of thousands of families in this nation who had a family a permanent separation from their children because they were killed by illegal animals and they buried them. Help us secure the border, save lives. Send a message out. This is not the way to come across the border. Under Joe Biden, a record number of Americans have died because of open border policy with fentanyl. A record number of aliens have died crossing the border. 4000 historic number of people have died crossing this border. So if you want to help, if you want to cry, cry for those who have suffered because the open border crisis. If you want to save women and children, tell them not to come. Don't put themselves in the arms of criminal cartels, be sexually assaulted, abused and killed. If you want to cry, cry for the victims of an open border. I've said this a hundred times. Open borders kills. I just said it kills. Record amount of Americans, record amount of migrants. But you know, a secure border saves lives. When President Trump had illegal immigration down 90% when 90% less people were coming, how many women did get raped by the cartels. How many children didn't drown in that river? How many Americans didn't die from fentanyl because the borders are tight and secure and the border patrol's all on table? How many children weren't found in pornographic movies and sex slavery? How many women weren't forced into sexual slavery at massage parlors throughout this country? How many cartel members didn't make it into this country to spread their poison throughout the nation? Thousands of people died because of open borders. So help us. You got a big platform. Help us save lives. Secure border saves lives. Those who enter the country legally, they're cheaters. As I said, there's people in this world who want the right thing to come to country, the right way. These people are taking a front seat away from people that really deserve to come to this country. Help us to send that message. A secure border saves lives. That's where she should be putting her anger, her sadness, everything else. Help us. We can save lives together.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tom, we watched you at a hearing. It happened years ago across from Representative Chewy Garcia, who was taking issue with your tough on the border approach and suggesting you had no heart and actually asked you have you ever held a child in your arms, you know, a young child. And you told a terrible story about how indeed you had firsthand. You used to be a border patrol agent. You were on the front lines doing this work as an agent. And I couldn't help but think of that five year old boy when I saw her crying for her people. I mean, people meantime, are pointing out online like Evita Duffy. Alfonso comes on the show. Selena Gomez is half Italian, she has a Mexican father who wasn't in the picture. And she says her Spanish is terrible. What does she mean? My people? I don't know what her people are, but if she's talking about her people from Latin America, from Central America, you've had experience with what happens to those people as they try to cross this border in the most harrowing of circumstances. And so far, no tears for little boys like that five year old.

[Tom Homan]

Well, I shed plenty of tears on that incident. That incident changed me forever. And I've held many dying children. I've had adult children. I've talked to little girls as young as nine. When you get on your knees, you talk to a little girl, 9 years old that was raped multiple times by a member of the cartel. And you get look in her eyes and everything innocent and pure, everything innocent and pure in her life has been stolen. And her life will never be the same. That's why I fight so hard, people. While you and I are talking right now, Megan, women are being raped by members of the cartel as part of the people crossing that border. A child will die on the border tonight. So, you know, I take this job seriously because of what I've seen in my 34 years. And for the folks out there that hate me, if you wore my shoes for 34 years, you'd understand the passion, you understand why I think a secure border saves lives. So, you know, I wrote a book, Secure Border Saves Lives. And I meant what I said, and that's based on my experience of all the death that occurs on that border, the sexual assault of women. Think about some nine year old little girl, grown men crawling down her, taking everything innocent and pure from her. Her life will never be the same. And that happens every day. Secure the border, save lives. President Trump's the promise of the American people going to secure the border and we're going to save a whole bunch of lives. We're going to save a whole bunch of women being sexually assaulted. We're going to save a whole bunch of Americans dying from fentanyl. We're going to save a lot of US Citizens that aren't going to be victims of illegal immigrant crime. The President Trump has the right idea. He's like the Pentagon and I'm like the field general. He has great vision, him and Steve Miller. Steve Miller is brilliant. They're helping me. They gave me the tools to do this with. I'm out there making sure those tools are implemented and we save this country and make this country safe.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tom, this is clearly personal to you. I've got to ask you, what was it like for you on November 5th when you saw the results roll in and you realized he had won and you were going to be unleashed on this thing?

[Tom Homan]

I've been pissed off for four years. Every morning I get up, I'm pissed off and people ask me, I got an airplane flight in Dallas just before the election and the captain met me in the galley because I got to ask you a question. I love you. I love Trump. Because me and my wife wondered, why are you always angry and you're testifying in front of Congress and why are you so angry and do your Fox interviews? I said I am. I'm angry and I'm pissed off because we had this lockdown and as I said earlier, when President Trump has, you know, Italy graced on 90%. How many women weren't being raped? How many Americans didn't die from fentanyl? How many, how Many women and children were in sex trafficked. I said, and they unleashed it. And I knew. I knew when President Biden, when Biden became president, I knew he was going to destroy everything we did. The most secure border in my lifetime, open it up. Which means more women are going to be raped, more Americans are going to die, more rapes, more sexual slavery. So I've been angry for four years that any commander in chief will come into office an unsecured border on purpose. I worked for six presidents, starting with Ronald Reagan. Every president I worked for, even Clinton Obama, took steps to secure the border if they clearly understood. You can't have national security if you don't have border security. Joe Biden's the first president in the history of the nation came into office in unsecured border on purpose. So I was 4 years pissed off the night of the election. I wasn't mar a lago with the president. That's the first morning I woke up excited that we're going to save lives. And I couldn't wait to get back. Matter of fact, when the president did call me, I was the first person he called. I think I was his first election. He called me up. His first words were, oh, you've been bitching about it for four years. You ready to come fix it? Of course I am. And took a huge faith cut. But I'm glad I'm back. We're going to save lives. We're already saving lives. What we did in Chicago. I was in Chicago the other day. That city's safer because of ICE and law enforcement agencies. And we're going to keep doing it. There's no end to this. This time we're going to get back to secure border. We have. But this time we finished the job.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. Amen. God bless you and all the men and women working with you, Tom. You're the right man for the job. We believe in you and we're really grateful for you.

[Tom Homan]

Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Wow. Tom Homan. Everybody stay safe out there. How lucky are we? Honestly, how lucky are we to have him? You know, you've seen the combative interviews with Tom when he goes on the mainstream, whatever. You know, corporate media and everyone's always giving us a hard time. Like, why don't you ask him what he thinks, what his plan is? My God, that was fascinating. Just to hear what. What the actual problem is, what the plan is for combating it, why the problem's so bad. Exactly what his motivation is. This is why corporate media is such a fail, such a failure. You've got these losers on CNN looking for their star moment so they can look tough on Tom Homan. He's trying to protect you, you absolute fools. What a pleasure to have somebody like that on board and willing to run hurt on this and not, not able to have his, you know, his, his steel back penetrated by these barbs that these losers try to throw at him. Good luck shaking Tom Homan. He is totally the man for the job. Love your thoughts on it. You can email me meganagane kelly.com wow. Feeling good. Feeling so. It's like every day is Christmas on Team Trump. Coming up next, Mark Halperin and Dan Turantine are here as President Trump begins his new administration. One of the top Democrats in Congress aiming to undermine the Trump agenda is Senator Dick Durbin. And according to our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Co, Senator Durbin has a new scheme, a government takeover of your credit card. Today, Americans have thousands of choices in credit cards, but they say Senator Durbin's plan will result in less competition and less security. That means more risk for your credit and your identity. Learn more at www.internetpaymentscoalition.org and consider telling your senators to stop Dick Durbin's government takeover of your credit card before it's too late. This podcast is brought to you in part by Stash. Ever felt burned out from trying to make money trading chasing stock tips on the Internet only to watch your gains vanish? Imagine investing with less headaches and guesswork. Stash is an investing app that helps.

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[Megyn Kelly]

We turn now to the big story in D.C. this week. Trump's cabinet nominees, three big ones, controversial ones of course, finally get their hearings. Rfkj, Tulsi Gabbard and Cash Patel for FBI, all heading to their confirmation hearings before the Senate beginning tomorrow for what promises to be some very Contentious moments to watch. And I should tell you that I too will be headed down to D.C. after the show today because I would like to take a peek at what they do to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. I feel like this show and he have somewhat of a special relationship since I think even he would tell you he probably wouldn't be there this week if it hadn't been for the four hours we did with him March of 2022, when no one would touch him. He was was officially on the disinformation dozen list being pushed by the White House. And we found a way to get that four hour interview on all platforms, even the ones on which he'd been banned and it didn't get banned anywhere. And he will tell you that was the beginning of his road back to being sort of acceptable. It's an absurdity. I realize all that, but it had to be done and it was done and look at him now. So I will be down there tomorrow supporting him and watching to see what they throw at him. Let's get now our guest's opinion on it all. Editor in chief of Two Way, Mark Halperin and former Democratic strategist Dan Turrentine. They are both hosts of Two Ways, the Morning Meeting. Guys, great to have you.

[Mark Halperin]

Great to be here. Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, so already there's some reports that Tulsi may be on a knife's edge. It may not like it's not guaranteed, in other words, and that there's some Republican rumblings that she might potentially not even get out of committee. And then over on RFKJ side, we've seen hit piece after hippie starting with the big Wall Street Journal. Not surprisingly, they don't like him. The way that they're going after him though, is to suggest he is making a lot of money by referrals to big law firms. He himself is a lawyer. That's how he's paid his bill bills for the past 40 years, especially those law firms that are suing vaccine manufacturers like the the ones who make Gardasil the HPV vaccine, which has caused a lot of problems that people allege anyway. So that's they're basically saying that he's got ties that he should be more open about and that he's bought and paid for just by a different set of people. Mark, so what do you foresee happening with the RFKJ confirmation hearings two days worth.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, every troubled nomination is troubled in its own way. Right. And his is especially unusual because there's critics on the left, there's Critics on the right. His cousin Caroline Kennedy just put out a long letter accusing him of all sorts of things, including some allegations that are at least new to me. I think that what you found is what I found when I talked to him, what people who let him speak for himself have found, which is he has a lot of interesting ideas with huge resonance amongst the American people. Just what he wants to do on health, we find on two way, I find in talking to people around the country has incredible resonance. And so I think that there aren't 50 votes for him, but there aren't 50 votes against him. And I think his nomination will hinge on, I think, what Pete Hegsett's nomination hung on. How does he do in the hearing? Does he come across in the hearing as a unique visionary who wants to make America healthy again, or does he come across as a kook whose issue positions have something to offend everyone? I think if he comes in and testifies, well, he'll make it it. And I think if he doesn't, he won't.

[Megyn Kelly]

Dan, didn't we talk about this or did I just read? You read it on Twitter. But one of the things I remember you saying in one place or the other was that one of the things that really helped Pete Hegseth was the performance of the Democrats at the hearing. That if they had, if they had seemed more normal, perhaps his Republican support wouldn't have been so ardent and strong, but that they played a real hand in delivering him the win.

[D]

Yes, absolutely. I mean, I thought some Democrats in that hearing, in the Hegseth hearing, completely embarrassed themselves and looked like a Saturday Night Live skit. And it really, I think, forced some Republicans who had concerns to ask themselves politically, do I want to be associated with that or do I want to be associated with President Trump? And obviously they made their decision. I think the interesting thing here is I think, think RFK Jr will get some Democratic votes. In fact, he may need some Democratic votes. And it's going to be a fine line because I think some of the Democratic questions will be. For instance, he supposedly has talked the other day to some Democratic Senate staff that he is open to seizing patents held by pharmaceutical companies. Pharmaceutical companies. And a lot of Republicans don't like that he said certain things on abortion. So Democrats, I think, in this instance, may try to cause some mischief to try to drive a wedge between some Republicans and RFK Jr.

[Megyn Kelly]

I think that it's going to be interesting because there's no question mark that there's a lot of dirt on rfkj. You could go any one of a number of ways on this guy. This is like an oppo research dream. I'm sure just because he's a Kennedy, he's lived a colorful life. You know, he. There's no question in the women lane, in a lot of lanes, you could land some blows. But my overall feeling, and I think the feeling of a lot of people who are pro Maha or Maha adjacent or at least interested in what's happening over in that lane, is we don't care. We want somebody to get the bad food dyes out of the food. The things that have been banned out of our makeup for 30 years because they're carcinogens. We want somebody who's going to stop the revolving door at the fda. So all these people are, you know, telling us that OxyContin is not addictive because they want to land a job with the drug maker who makes you, like, that's the stuff we know he will fight. So it's. I. I kind of approach this not the way I would have it as a Fox News anchor 10 years ago, like, oh, he did what? Now? It's like, who cares?

[Mark Halperin]

So, first of all, he's led a very colorful life. That's the euphemism of 2025 so far. I think he may. He may. He makes Pete Hegseth look like Orrin Hatch. I mean, just on the personal side, it's kind of epic. And no president, I'll say, you know, people always say in modern history or in my memory, I'm willing to say no president would have nominated someone with Bobby Kennedy's personal past in the history of the Republic, except Donald Trump. And Donald Trump has, as you know, warmly embraced Maha and some of these issues, not just as good politics, but I think it's something that's really gotten to President Trump and the people around him. So on the issue of substance, on personal stuff, disqualifying under normal circumstances, again, if he can focus on health, I think he can do well. I think it's the policy positions that are gonna be equally problematic. As Dan suggested, there's some Democrats who won't vote for him on policy grounds. There's some Republicans who might not vote for him on policy grants. It's very difficult to be confirmed winning votes from both parties that add up to your margin of victory. It just doesn't happen very much in our polarized times. So if Dan's right and he does need Democrat votes to be confirmed, it's going to be dicey. I'll say again, if he can emphasize the issues that tens of millions of people find attractive that he espouses as much as anyone. I'll say this again in hyperbolic terms. More than anyone in American history, he has shed a light on these issues about which, which many people, including parents, are so passionate. But he's got to make the confirmation about that rather than some of the other issues that, that are, that's strikes against him.

[Megyn Kelly]

Because let's face it, Trump, Dan, didn't have some love for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. He wasn't like, God, I've got to have that guy. He went to him. That happened because RFKJ had something to bring to the table. He'd already been building a movement which wasn't exactly labeled Maha yet. That didn't really, that hadn't yet happened. But he spent his whole life in the public health field, just as a lawyer. He's not a doctor, but as a lawyer. And he's been arguing these issues, yes, vaccines, but it goes well beyond vaccines, what he's tried to do, cleaning up the waters, cleaning up the air. And so that's one of the reasons why so many people, including Nicole Shanahan, his running mate, were attracted to him, even though by any measure he's a little out there. But that's, that's why Trump went to him. That's why I think he's going to get through. It's why people are going to overlook this, these oddities that would normally tank any nominee.

[D]

Megan, I totally agree with you. I mean, we hear it on our show all the time. People who voted for him or were going to vote for him love rfk. They believe in what he advocates. They believe in what he has to say. To Mark's point, he's unearthed and champion issues that at one point were fringe, that, you know, on his way out the door, the Biden administration got rid of the red dye, right? I mean, I don't think that happens if not for rfk. And one of the things that the Democratic Party has to do is figure out how to win back the RFK vote. We drove him out of the party. We told a lot of his voters, you're kooky. You know, you're, you're, you're a conspiracy theorist. There's no place for you. Trump opened his arms, listened to what he had to say, gave it, you know, some, some, some added heft, and here he is. And so that's why I do think there are smart Democrats who will vote for him to try to hug what he stands for and his voters.

[Megyn Kelly]

The thing, if you look at the Maha community, it's huge. And I'm putting a lot of things in there, but, you know, it's like all of it, from outlived to Andrew Huberman to all this activity on X that talks about your workout routine, your sleep routine, your food routine is big. I follow all these people big. It's just a very large community that has a lot of. They're counting on him to make some changes for people who cannot or choose not to spend their lives following these accounts and worrying about the latest thing supplement they should take or way they should be, you know, eating to just make it a lot easier for, for people, especially moms and dads, trying to help their children live well. And, and like, that's how I see him. He's. That he'll be the most visible face trying to help those kids. And this is the letter that you referenced, Mark. I'll read you in part what this is because we're going to hear a lot about it tomorrow. So the Washington Post has gotten its hands on a letter that Caroline Kennedy, the daughter of JFK, who, yes, would be a first cousin to RFK Jr. Has written to the senators, the Democratic senators, I guess maybe all the senators said, just as lawmakers ahead of his confirmation hearings. They say she warned the senators about him calling her cousin a predator whose victims have ranged from family members to the parents of sick children. They say she alleges that he is addicted to attention and power. I mean, grab a number in Washington has given hypocritical advice by discouraging parents from vaccinating their children while, while vaccinating his own children. He's quite open about that fact, actually. She alleged that his crusade against vaccination has also served to enrich him. That's potentially a reference to that law firm relationship and him getting, you know, referral fees for these law firms that are suing big vaccine makers in some cases. She writes, I have known Bobby my whole life. We grew up together. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because he himself is a predator, and this is low. She goes on to claim that through the strength of his personality, other family members follow Kennedy Jr. Down the path of drug addiction. This is ridiculous, you guys. Did JFK follow RFK Jr. Down the path of addiction with all of his pills and his medical problems? Like he's the first Kennedy to invent addiction. I mean, there's long problems written about with his, with his, his Mom. His Uncle Ted, who killed a woman in Chappaquiddick. Like, what, is she trying to blame it all with RFKJ as the source of the Kennedy addiction problem. His basement. This part's weird and not great. His basement, his garage, his dorm room were centers of the action where drugs were available. Not that part. We knew that. And he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in the blender to feed his hawks. Ew. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence. It's not great, but I watched Sarah Palin stand in front of one of those machines that they were just chucking chickens in, and one second they had their heads, and the next second they didn't. And, like, it was kind of a discussion piece, but it didn't, you know, end her political career. Mark.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, first of all, I hope that's not the same blender they're using to make smoothies. That would just be my preference on that. That's not.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tastes like chicken.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, exactly. Little protein rather than the vanilla whey protein. Let's go. It's just a wing. Nothing in her letter about making Twizzlers safe again, you know, she's not a big fan. You know, look, the Kennedys have always been an incredible story for. For the public and for journalists. The. The war between his cousins and his siblings and him is a. Is a very compelling story. But I'll be super curious to see, like, his opening statement. I could write it in my head, right? What will drive this? As you suggested before with the Hegset theory, what are the Democrats going to ask him about? What are the Republicans going to ask him about? I mean, do they really want to say, Mr. Kennedy, did you put rats in mice in blenders? I don't know. Maybe they do. But to me, the bigger thing is, can he turn the hearing into a discussion of the issues that have struck a chord? Not just saying kids should be healthier, but analyzing, what is it about corporate power? What is it about big ag power that has brought us to where we are? If he can focus on that again, I think on the merits, he can be confirmed. But I'll be super curious to see what the senators ask, because on policy and personal, there's a buffet as big as you could find anywhere in Hong Kong.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I mean, this group, NIH, Dr. Fauci, was in the news over the past couple of years for tests that were being done on puppies, actual products that were being done on little puppies, beagle puppies. So, I mean, spare me with their newfound animal rights campaign. They didn't seem to mind when it was the God. Dr. Anthony Fauci. Mark and Dan stay with us. Quick break. We'll be right back. These days, personal safety is not something that can be left to chance. Whether at home, on the road or just living everyday life, having a reliable way to protect yourself and your family is crucial. This is why Burna is the choice for so many. Burna is a game changing, less lethal self defense tool. Compact, powerful and easy to use, it provides the confidence to act in any situation. Burna uses non lethal rounds, tear gas, pepper and kinetic projectiles to effectively stop a threat from a safe distance. And the best part, Burna can be shipped directly to your door and it's legal in all 50 states. A lot of gun owners use this. They, they see themselves potentially in trouble. They want to go non lethal and then lethal and that can potentially help in criminal prosecutions and so on. People are thinking playing the long game. Burna is proudly American with products hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Sometimes a firearm is not the right option and Burna provides a powerful alternative or addition to your self defense plan. Protect what matters most with Byrna. Visit byrna.com that's B Y R N A B y r n a.com Megan to receive a 10% discount and learn why thousands of people and law enforcement agencies are making the switch to Burna's less lethal protection. Non lethal self defense. Always ready. Let's talk about Tulsi where we are hearing some concerns about this one as well. Like there's not total confidence that she's going to get through and here too we're starting to see the drip, drip of hit pieces on her. I mean this, this one that just dropped and the Daily Beast is ridiculous. First, I'll just give you the color on the Hill reports that Gabbard's path through the intel community narrows ahead of Cree. A key heating, saying, hearing, saying Republicans are cautioning that her path to confirmation is narrowing as she seemingly has trouble winning over key GOP senators. They're saying of the nominees yet to be confirmed, she is the one who has the most tenuous path. She cannot afford to lose a single vote on the intel committee and they're not sure she's even got all the Republicans on it. But what we see then is a hit piece by the Daily Beast and I'm sure we're going to see more. We saw one by NBC late last week which was more substantive or at least to try to be this One is when she was 15. They have a picture of her at an event. Let's see. A ritual dedicated to Chris Butler, the leader of the Science of Identity foundation where she was a student at one of its boarding schools. They say this person who she was paying homage to, Butler had ranted anti gay hate on a tape in the late 90s. This, I mean I. That's it, that's. That's what we've got, Dan. She, when she was a teenager, not even able to drive. They've got a picture of her at some guys. I don't know. Ritual. I don't. It doesn't even see that seem that here he was saying anti gay things, just that he did say them. And I suppose the 15 year old Tulsi should have known exactly what he was saying at all times.

[D]

I always cringe whenever people bring up elected officials. Teenage years. I mean, I can speak for myself. I would not want to have to defend things that I did in my teenage years. But look, her problems, I think are not with Democrats, they really are with Republicans. And when Lindsey Graham this past weekend on TV hedged or kind of did not offer his support, it opened eyes. He is usually on Team Trump. He on occasion will push back a little bit. But the fact that he not only said it was given an opportunity to kind of clean that up and he didn't take it. She clearly has problems with some of these kind of what we'll call traditional national security Republicans. And it's interesting because Trump ran on shaking up not just the DOJ and other departments, but the intelligence agencies and how he looks at the world. And to him she embodies that. And it's his own party that seems to have concerns.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. This is what's so interesting, Mark, is it's like, you know, the. I think of our friend Glenn Greenwald, I think of our friend Tucker, you know, people who are very vocal about the national security apparatus and how it's been used many times too many on the American people, how there's a great distrust of these agencies and how they're very trigger happy in getting us the whole intelligence apparatus and in coordination with DoD into these wars. And one of the reasons they like her is she's more like minded to them. She's suspicious of these tools we've used. She is not a knee jerk. Putin's a devil just because he's done bad things. Is there more of a strategic aspect to be examined with somebody like that? But the Bashar Al Assad meeting in Syria is going to be a big theme when she appears on Thursday, no question. But all that stuff is kind of the point of her nomination.

[Mark Halperin]

It is, it's, it's part of why President Trump picked her. He also, like with Bobby Kennedy, very supportive of someone who switched out of the Democratic Party to back him. I think for her, as I said before, performance will be key, particularly on some of these big questions like Syria. You think back to the Hegseth hearing. What helped him as much as anything else besides his performance was the chairman was in his court and the chairman ran the hearing with an eye towards what's our strategy for getting him confirmed. Part of why Bobby Kennedy, I think, has a problem is the chairman in his case is Senator Cassidy with a history of going against Donald Trump and clearly from his public statements, not enthusiastic. What I think Tulsi Gabbard has going for her is Tom Cotton, although I was surprised at how lukewarm he was this weekend. If he goes all in with her as he runs the hearing, she's being introduced by Richard Burr, the former head of the committee, the former top Republican there, retired senator from North Carolina. If the national security establishment of the party can say yes, she's going to shake things up, yes, she's going to root out the problems of the deep state, but you can trust her to do this job to keep America safe, then I think she's got a much better chance. It has to be not she's just going to shake things up. That's half of it. But the other half is she'll keep us safe. Marco Rubio will say that as the new Secretary of State, Tom Cotton again has been supportive. But this weekend on a Sunday show was to me, to my ear as a student of Tom Cotton was not as supportive as he might be. I'll be super curious to see how he runs this hearing.

[Megyn Kelly]

Oh, the big story on X today is people mad that the vote on her is going to happen behind closed doors because the Intel Committee is going to do one piece of the hearing in front of everybody where it'll be all, you know, swords and daggers and everybody will try to look super tough and then they'll go behind closed doors to do the classified stuff. And that's where things get real. And that's where they do the vote, too. And many people are upset because they want to know how their senator votes. But, I mean, let me stick with you on this, Mark. If the vote, if she doesn't get out of committee, we're gonna find out who's who. Tanked her.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, it's not unprecedented to be voted down in committee but still get a floor vote. And I could see that happening in this case. One of the things about her and Megan, you know this because you know her, she's very winning personally. She comes across as a very nice person and someone you'd want to vote for just in the abstract. But she's been silent. Right. She has some people helping her now who helped Pete Hegseth on his confirmation, but they have not at this, you know, on the eve of the hearing, they've not switched her to publicly making the case for herself. She's following the norm.

[Megyn Kelly]

Like Pete did with me.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, exactly like Pete did with you and not with you and some of the other public statements he made. I have no doubt that that's what turned it around for him by explaining in his own voice and his mom explaining in her own voice as opposed to the old letter email, what he was about, why he should get the job. So her willingness to fight the deep state, her willingness to be a different kind of person in this job is a plus for people. I don't think the vote will end up being private. I think in the age in which we live, that seems impossible. But I could imagine her losing Susan Collins in the committee but still getting to be voted on on the floor. If all the other Republicans there vote.

[Megyn Kelly]

For her, Dan, what is the likelihood that the Democrats use their, their time to try to make her look like a spy, like we've heard it said by Hillary Clinton and others? And then that NBC report was all about Tulsi Gabbard did go over as a Democratic congresswoman to visit with Bashar al Assad in Syria. The report was that that was not the stated purpose of the trip. She was supposed to be meeting with lesser thans. And that as soon as she got there, the first thing she did was go and sit down with Bashar al Assad for three hours, which they make a big deal out of. Not normal for a congresswoman. And the clear implication, though not explicit in the piece was she's a spy. But it's like, what did she then do for Syria? Walk me through how he then recruited her and turned her against the United States. I don't, I. But I feel like this is where they're going to go.

[D]

Yeah, there's no love lost for her in the Democratic Party. I mean, it's amazing to think 5 years ago she was a candidate to be our nominee and now she is. She is on the other team. And so I think there are people who will look to get even. I think some of it will just be raw tribal politics. They don't like the fact that she endorsed President Trump, that she was so vocal in her support and so vocal in her criticism of Harris and Biden, even going back to the 2020 debate stage. She was one of Harris's toughest critics on those stages during those primary debates. And so I think I would be surprised if there are. If there is a Democrat that votes for Tulsi Gabbard, even though there are a few senators who are colleagues of her when they were in the House. I think you will see people, you know, whether she's a spy or some of the things that she has said, you know, recently, it's less her, more Trump. They will dig in and really battle against her.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does anyone here think Cash Patel is going to have a hard time getting through?

[Mark Halperin]

No.

[D]

No. Because I think the party, the MAGA world will come to his defense, which, by the way, they're not so far doing to Gabbard or RFK Jr. Oh, interesting.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. They will fully rally around Cash. I mean, the FBI, that is the Hill that MAGA will die on for sure. But I think he's not gonna have any trouble getting through. So we'll spend more time on him as the week progresses, but not today. I want to get to some other stuff that Trump is doing. It truly is like drinking from a fire hose. He. He. There's so much news he's doing so much. Like, we might be getting rid of the federal income tax. Like, that's. I. I don't know. But he kind of threw it out there. Yeah, okay. I think he said, yeah, listen to Sat 20, where he gave a speech last night in Doral, Florida.

[Tom Homan]

America is going to be very rich again, and it's going to happen very quickly. It's time for the United States to return to the system that made us richer and more powerful than ever before. You know, the United States in 1870-1913, all tariffs, and that was the richest period in the history of the United States, relatively speaking. We had no income tax. The income tax came in in 1913. As I said in my speech last week, instead of taxing our citizens to enrich foreign nations, we should be tariffing and taxing foreign nations to enrich our citizens.

[Megyn Kelly]

Does that make sense? Right. If he managed to change the Constitution and. And if we got rid of the income tax, Mark, I think the country really would keep him president for life. I think they'd be so grateful they'd amend it to allow him to stay forever.

[Mark Halperin]

It has great bumper sticker appeal. As you know, when you start to run the numbers, they're winners and losers. And so people have advocated for that, have to deal with the fact that it's not an easy sell. And amending the Constitution about anything is basically a non starter because of the polarized nature of our policy politics. So Donald Trump will float anything and see what people think. And this has been an issue like term limits that has really been something exciting to a lot of the center right in this country for a long time. And I'm actually surprised he didn't talk about it more when he ran in 2016. I thought it was a ripe topic then and he didn't. So we'll see. He may talk about it obsessively and it may be the literally the last time he ever talks about it again, because that is the nature of Donald J. Trump.

[Megyn Kelly]

We're not done, not by a long shot. Here's another soundbait of him yesterday in Doral, Florida, listing a bunch of stuff. Listen to Sat 23.

[Tom Homan]

I'll be signing four new executive orders. First is that I'm directing our new secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, who's going.

[Mark Halperin]

To be great, by the way, to.

[Tom Homan]

Immediately begin the construction of a state of the art Iron Dome missile defense shield which will be able to protect Americans. You know, we protect other countries, but we don't take protect ourselves. And when Ronald Reagan wanted to do it many years ago, luckily we didn't. We didn't have the technology then. It was a concept, but we didn't. Now we have phenomenal technology next to ensure that we have the most lethal fighting force in the world. We will get transgender ideology the hell out of our military. It's going to be gone. In addition, we will stop our service members from being indoctrinated with radical left ideologies such as critical race theory. We're going to stop it. It's already been stopped. It's already been halted, totally halted. And finally, we will offer full reinstatement to any service member who was expelled from the armed forces due to the COVID vaccine mandate. And we will restore them to their former rank with full pay.

[Megyn Kelly]

Now, this is very popular, especially on the right, Dan, the Iron Dome, I mean, National Review, which, as you know, this is not President Trump's number one fan group. They did a big editorial today praising him for the Iron Dome thing, saying there are a lot of people who think we've spent a Couple billion on Israel's Iron Dome. Why don't we have something like that? No, we've never been attacked in that particular way. It would protect against ballistic missiles, that kind of thing. Not a nuclear bomb. But why wouldn't we be looking forward at the future threats, especially in the wake of the whole drone thing? What happened to the drone story? Whatever happened to the drones? We, like, we. We went on Christmas vacation. Everybody forgot about it. Is this still happening? My friends in New Jersey, okay, there's that transgender out of military. He said the ideology, but he also means the people. Transgenders are out pursuant to an executive order yesterday saying, can't have it. Can't be dealing with those mental issues or the leave that's needed for the medical procedures. You can't even serve in the military if you have eczema, which I didn't know, and you certainly can't serve if you've got this level of mental challenge. No more crt. He said DEI in the military. And that last one is very popular. Full reimbursement, back pay, and reinstatement to the existing rank for the some 8,000 service members who got booted because they wouldn't take the COVID jab. Your take on all of those, or does one jump out to you as, you know, most worthy of discussion?

[D]

Well, I think for the Democratic Party, the challenge is there is so much. Right. It's shock and awe, and the party is really on its heels. You know, one of the things that I get, you know, in my inbox all day are emails from Democratic members of Congress. They're fundraising solicitations. And one yesterday caught my eye. It was aoc, who, while her politics aren't necessarily mine, I think she is a very authentic, terrific political athlete, just from a pure practitioner standpoint. And she said, you know, a recap of the things that Trump has done to basically make the country worse. In her opinion. Number one was J6. Number two was pulling out of the Paris climate deal. I found it fascinating because what you don't hear in her email and what you don't hear from Democrats is defending DEI policies in, let's say, the military. You don't hear people criticizing the deportation of illegal immigrants who are criminals. Right. You don't hear defending the COVID policies from years ago. The party doesn't know where to stand its ground and really, even what it stands for on these issues. Right? Immigration, splitting the party basically in not just half, but, like, fourths. And so I think, you know, Iron Dome or, you know, getting rid of the income tax. There's so much out there, and I think this was part of their strategy that Democrats right now, in my lifetime, I've never seen us so quiet and so unsure of not just who should speak, but what he or she would say.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, they seem rudderless, Dan. Like, who's. Who's the leader? You know, who's the spokesperson for the Democrats these days?

[Mark Halperin]

Dan.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, Dan. Yeah. They should be so smart as to get you.

[D]

It's. It's to be determined here, you know, who will step forward for us. I mean, look, it really is an issue because, you know, I'm not the biggest fan of Kamala Harris as a candidate. She's quiet, right? Is she living in New York or, you know, California? Is she running for governor? Joe Biden's obviously gone. The Obamas and Clintons, it's not their thing. Nancy Pelosi appears this time around to have stepped even further back, you know, than she was even just a few years ago when Hakeem Jeffries took over. And look, we all know here, Chuck Schumer's. What do they say? The most dangerous place is usually between him and a microphone, and he doesn't seem to want to touch it. You know, even today, ice in the Bronx, in his state, in his city, deporting illegals who have committed crimes, to my knowledge, I haven't looked in the last hour. He's silent, right? Kirsten Gillibrand, silent. She's the head of the DSCC this cycle. So I don't know who our spokesperson is right now, but I do believe people will emerge in the near future.

[Megyn Kelly]

Well, I'm concerned for you that it might be Joy Reid. I. I regret to inform you it. It might be Joy Reid. It's an unfortunate development for you normal Democrats. You should not allow this ascent. She was. Tom Homan was our guest the first half hour, and he mentioned this nutcase who was out there last night comparing the Republicans and the immigration sweep to the Nazis and the Holocaust. Do we have that, you guys? Let's watch. Defeating the Jews of Europe, who they viewed as subhuman, was a question of good conquering evil, which conditioned millions of Germans to celebrate Hitler and turn a blind eye to his brutality. If that sounds vaguely familiar, that's because it is. Similarities to what happened in Germany and what's happening now in America are just undeniable. History may not repeat verbatim, but it sure does rhyme. Trump and Stephen Miller, his former director of speechwriting, depict non white immigrants as carriers of deadly diseases who are violent terrorists. Trump was returned to the presidency after staging a coup and has exerted control of media or social media in order to parrot anti immigrant vitriol and openly hateful anti LGBTQ language. And she finished that whole diatribe, Mark, by accusing Elon of doing a Nazi salute at the Trump rally, which we've been over ad nauseam. I mean, like, I don't. Obviously she doesn't have a lot of sway with Democrats, but is it shocking to you that she still has the post she does on msnbc?

[Mark Halperin]

No. I mean, there's a, there's a niche audience for that line of discussion. I won't say reasoning it's not as big a niche as it was, although their numbers are up a little bit there. You know, it's interesting on the Republican side, on the MAGA side, people like her, people who create content, people have shows, they're interacting with the officials and they're being really tactical and strategic to say, what are we for that's popular and how do we sell that to the public? The Democratic Party, which remains as far left as it's been in our lifetime, isn't doing that. They're just out there selling what they've been selling to their audience, not trying to think, what's wrong with what we're selling? Why isn't it more appealing to a broader group? And her revenue model is apparently wedded to that line as opposed to trying to think anew.

[Megyn Kelly]

You've got CNN not doing much better. They have Scott Jennings on there, as you've surely seen, Dan, and he's doing yeoman's work, trying to defend the Trump administration. He's literally the one Republican they put on with a panel of all Democrats, and I include the anchors in that. And he got into a dust up last night with this woman from the Washington Post named Catherine Rampel, who used to be the theater critic, I think, over at the Times. So this has enabled her to opine on whether, for example, Pete Hegseth is qualified to run the Department of Defense, saying his only real qualification is he was on Fox News, kind of just wiping out all that time he spent with a gun in Iraq and Afghanistan and at Gitmo, she's reduced him to a Fox TV host as though Trump had nominated Brian Kilmeade. She's back at it over there and she decides to go after Musk, who honestly find me a billionaire. Even Bill Ackman, who's, you know, constantly posting on X about 10, 7. And what's been happening at universities and is probably the main reason Claudine Gay went down at Harvard. Like Find Me a Billionaire. That's done more to call attention to what's happened to the Jewish people in Israel than Elon Musk. He went over there. He toured it with Ben Shapiro. He's been wearing a necklace to represent the hostages since a parent of a hostage gave it to him. He said he won't take it off until they're all home. He's made repeated public statements about it. He went to Auschwitz. He recirculates their movies. Like calling attention to this. No, he's a Nazi because he did the touch the heart and then the alleged salute thing. And watch this exchange she had with Scott Jennings. The first time that Elon Musk decides to declare that globalist Jews are responsible for the great replacement of brown people into the United States. Maybe it was a misunderstanding. You know, the second time he said that Jews are pushing hatred against white people. That's a quote, you know, that was a little iffy. By the second Sieg Heil, I think he kind of loses the benefit of the doubt to be not accused of playing footsie with these Nazis.

[Mark Halperin]

He has a long record of supporting the Jewish people, number one. Number two, anybody who is asserting this thing he did on the stage the other day was a Sig Heil, which I just heard you say, you know, lawyer up, maybe, because absolute ridiculous thing to say. Under no circumstances in Germany thought it.

[Megyn Kelly]

Was a Sig Heil.

[Mark Halperin]

Under no cares circumstances was he doing anything other than expressing enthusiastically, why don't.

[Tom Homan]

You do it on TV right now?

[Megyn Kelly]

Is appreciated.

[Mark Halperin]

Why don't you do it on TV.

[Megyn Kelly]

Right now if you think it's so.

[Mark Halperin]

Number three.

[Megyn Kelly]

I. I like. I can't. Can I just tell you a little backstory about this woman? So she attacked Pete in the way I said. I came on the air and pointed out she's a theater critic and she should shut up. She doesn't know anything. And then she posted on X. She was all offended because people were writing nasty things to her. Oh, thanks a lot, Megyn Kelly. Let me explain something to you, Katherine, about being in the public eye. If you're gonna go on CNN and you're gonna offer inane opinions, people are going to comment on them, and then you might get some nasty tweets. It's called being an adult on the Internet. Grow up. So she doubles down and accuses Elon Musk of a double Sig Heil. And why is this happening, Dan? Is it because they need to take down Elon, he's too much of a threat. Or is it because identity politics and the opportunity to hit somebody for being anti Jew or anti black or anti what have you is so important to these far left wingers that they just look around for any possible opportunity and then they, they seize on it. You know, they just see it where it isn't there because they've trained their brains that there are racists and Nazis everywhere among us.

[D]

Yeah, that clip was embarrassing and ridiculous. And I think, look, the frustrating thing as a Democrat is one, there is some data that the country is not comfortable with business titans in government because they don't necessarily think they're there because they completely patriotic and philanthropic. They think there might be in there to had the bottom line and it's in their business interest. You lose all credibility to start making those arguments or people won't hear them when you start calling them a Nazi and you start kind of focusing on a hand gesture on the stage. If he did it every time he spoke and he ended every meeting like that, okay, different conversation. But as Scott said, to no one's knowledge is he a Nazi or espouse hate the Jewish people or he's a bad Nazi.

[Megyn Kelly]

He's a Nazi. He's very bad at it. This is not how it's done, Elon. You do not express love for the Jewish people. You do not lament their hostage taking. You do not go pay homage at Auschwitz to those killed in the Holocaust. It's not a thing that you're doing it all wrong.

[D]

It's crazy. And I just again, the party doesn't know where to go. I guess it's like trying to, you know, develop new muscles in your body. The, the old muscles sometimes kick in early on and it's. Calling somebody a Nazi or doesn't support democracy has been kind of in vogue, sadly, in my opinion, in the last four or five months in the party. So it's maddening because again, there is and it is fundamentally American. We're somewhat distrustful of powerful people. I think that has served our country well. And so I happen to believe that Elon Musk, probably as he pokes around the government, is keeping an eye on one of his five businesses and thinking like, is there opportunities here? And so, you know, that is probably a better line of questioning. And you might have to hold your powder dry until there's some good examples. But yes, it's embarrassing.

[Megyn Kelly]

Can I ask you about that, Mark? Yeah, go ahead.

[Mark Halperin]

I have a very high tolerance for crocodile tears because I've Watched them shed by both parties throughout my career. But I thought back after this. This made up controversy over Elon Musk's exuberant physical action, which you can find pictures of many Democrats doing to the controversy over the joke told about Puerto Rico at the Madison Square Garden rally. And for five days, for five days, the Democrats told us in the media that this was going to cost Donald Trump the election. And it's hard to imagine, I can't look into the soul of others. It's hard to imagine that there was really any Democrat actually outraged by the joke. These are crocodile tears, and they're dangerous for a party trying to rebuild itself. Because if they think that the way to identify with the real lives of real people is to accuse Elon Musk of being kind of the Maxwell Smart of Nazis, like so bumbling that he's doing a version of their salute in front of people, I just, I just find it really unfortunate. And again, it's testament to, as Dan said, their reflexes are to, to criticize Donald Trump and everyone around him. In personal terms, there are things to criticize, but to make up an accusation like this, it's very strange and, and, and unfortunate.

[Megyn Kelly]

Undermines your.

[Mark Halperin]

But it's part of force.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah. This is why, like in a courtroom, you have to be very careful because once you lose your credibility with a judge or the jury, you're toast. You cannot get it back, which is why you don't over promise and under deliver. You don't make big accusations that you cannot support because then they don't trust you anymore and they stop listening to you on the critical things that you actually could potentially deliver on for your client. So you just, you never do it. And they do it. It's like their favorite trick over on the left. I do want to ask you a question about Elon. Two things in the news about him today. This one hit yesterday that Susie Wiles, Trump's chief of staff, kept him out of the West Wing, that he reportedly or his team and he wanted an office in the West Wing for Doge and she relegated them to the executive office building. Doge entirely. And Elon as well. So he's not going to be in the West Wing, suggesting she, she's going to rule with an iron fist. This wasn't about Elon, but she's on record as saying, if I don't want any stars, you know, I don't want anybody sort of standouts. President Trump is the star. Like everybody here is in a supporting role and we work together to advance his agenda. So what does that tell you, if anything?

[Mark Halperin]

Well, the real estate in the West Wing is pretty rare, Right. And there's logical arguments to keep all of Doge across the street. For people who don't know the geography, it's not like he's in Siberia, it's you walk across West Executive Avenue and you're right there, steps away from the Oval. So I don't know that this will make that big a difference in how often he's with Donald Trump and what his influence is. And I don't know for a fact if Susie Wiles did this simply for the rational allotment of office space or she's trying to keep them apart. But Susie Wiles understands Donald Trump pretty well. And my guess is that if Donald Trump wants to be with Elon Musk in person and face to face, that not only would Susie Wiles not try to do it, to try to stop it, I think she knows she couldn't.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I mean, you've got, you mentioned his five companies, Dan. It's like you forget that not only does he own X, but He's got, yes, SpaceX, that whole, you know, thing that's better than NASA. Now he's got the boring company where he's boring through the ground right now with high speed train work. He's got neuralink, which could potentially solve paralysis one day. It's already, they're inserting a chip into somebody's brain. They've already done it to allow your brain, just your brain only to control, control, like a computer pad in front of you just with your thoughts. And it's working. That's just step one. Think of where they'll be 20 years from now. Then there's Tesla. I mean, it's insane the number of things he has going on. It's truly like roaming the earth at the same time as an Albert Einstein or, you know, Howard Hughes, one of these larger than life characters who will be remembered for generations. And just like Trump, he will be, he'll, his name will be a household name for generations to come. So my own feeling is if he, if he wants access to kind of just keep him happy, why he, the fact that he wants to serve in any capacity is such a boon. And I don't, I think the only thing he wants for his companies is less red tape. He's just been so clear about how the red tape hassles. But wait, one more question while we're on the subject of Elon Vivek resurfaced last night after getting pushed out of Doge and tried to tell Jesse Waters he was not pushed out of Doge.

[Tom Homan]

Listen, people are saying you didn't get along with Musk.

[Megyn Kelly]

What happened there, I think that's incorrect. But what I would say is we.

[Mark Halperin]

Had different and complementary approaches. I focused more on a constitutional law, legislative based approach.

[Tom Homan]

He focused more on a technology approach.

[Megyn Kelly]

Which is the future approach. No better person to lead that technology.

[Mark Halperin]

Digital approach than Elon Musk.

[Megyn Kelly]

But when you're talking about a constitutional.

[Mark Halperin]

Revival, it's not just done through the federal government, it's done through federalism where.

[Tom Homan]

States also lead the way.

[Mark Halperin]

So I'll have to be saying more.

[Tom Homan]

On that very shortly.

[Mark Halperin]

Jesse.

[Megyn Kelly]

All right, so Elon didn't fire you. It's no, we had a mutual discussion.

[Mark Halperin]

And I think that I wish him well. And we're on the same page where.

[Megyn Kelly]

Divide and conquer in saving the country. It's not a one man show from.

[Mark Halperin]

The top down or the bottom up. It's all of the above and that's what I'm in for.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, well, I just listen, I've gotta be honest. That did not strike me as truthful at all. My audience knows I do my Phil Houston spy the lie analysis on everybody, Republican and Democrat. That and so is it true you didn't get along? I think that's incorrect. That is not what truth sounds like. If they say, megan, do you get along with Mark and Dan? I say, yeah, we get along great. I really like those guys. You say, megan, do you get along with Bill O'Reilly? I say, well, didn't end well. Right. Like it's. Come on. I think that's incorrect. Suggests it's true that they didn't, they didn't get along. And then the. I was working on a constitutional revival. What is that? They were working on Doge. The whole thing is Department of Governmental Efficiency. They were trying to slash prices or efficiency find efficiencies so they could slash costs. Yes, Vivek has written about, you know, constitutional revival and he's written a lot of interesting things about it. But that, that was not the mission at Doge. And lastly. So he didn't fire you? No, it was a mutual discussion and that's, that's contrary to the reporting and also doesn't sound like a truth teller. I just got to be honest that that's my take on it. But have you guys done any reporting on this? And you definitely have sources in and around these two, I'm sure. So what do you know anyone?

[Mark Halperin]

Well, the partnership was always A little bit odd to begin with, right? Two really strong willed guys. Two guys used to being kind of in charge who knew each other some, but not like best friends put in charge of a complicated program, high visibility program. So just the way it was set up originally seemed like it was a recipe for disaster. And then there were some high profile things, particularly over the skilled worker visas where I think it was less the cause of the breakup, but gave the musk side the capacity to say this isn't going to work out. He does have a very soft landing. He can go for run to be governor of Ohio, probably with Donald Trump's endorsements. And since he wants to be president, he's a lot better off doing that than where he was. So I think in the end everybody gets what they want. It's a little bit embarrassing for him. And Megan, I will endorse your high human intelligence. Reading the room on that guy's face. No need for a lie detector strapped to his forehead. You can just watch and listen.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah, I think it's better, I honestly think it's better, Dan, for somebody in Vivek's position there to say, yeah, we, it didn't work out in the end. I love Elon, but you know, we have two big personalities. He was running hurt on it. I did different view and that's fine. We're all in great hands. I think it's better to just be honest because I think people know. But yes, he's going to go run for governor of Ohio. And how do you like his chances there? Right now they've got Governor Mike DeWine who is not a MAGA type at all. Ohio's only gotten redder. So how do you like his chances there and what do you think about but the Missouri Democrat senator saying he's not going to run for reelection. So it's an open seat now. That happened to me.

[Mark Halperin]

Michigan, Michigan.

[Megyn Kelly]

Michigan, sorry, Michigan, Michigan.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, look, I think that the VEC probably also would love a Tesla factory in Ohio once he becomes governor. Nothing like some delivering a few jobs once you get elected. If he is, you know, the prospects for the Democratic Party in Ohio are pretty bleak. Think perhaps Sherrod Brown, who is probably the who is the most popular Democrat but still lost here this last time around, would think about running for governor. I know he's also thinking about running for the Senate seat here because there will be an election coming up here in 2026 and in Michigan. Look, count me as someone who was stunned Gary Peters stepped down. He just has been voting for some of Trump's nominees. He's been aggressive raising money. He's been aggressive on television, kind of trying to straddle the line of his state, which were things you would do if you were getting ready to run for reelection. So I think this is going to be an interesting battle because if you're Trump, this is a chance to get a statewide office holder in that state, perhaps put one of your own and obviously pick up a Senate seat. And if you're a Democrat, you know, what does Mayor Pete do? He was rumored to be thinking of running for governor, might he run for the Senate? And there are some talented young House members that will think about it. And I think this is a little bit of a fork in a road for the Democratic Party in Michigan.

[Megyn Kelly]

It's fascinating. Trump won Michigan and, you know, it's. But it's not red, it's not Ohio. So the Republicans have got to be eyeballing that seed as like, it'd be great to not have to worry about that fourth vote. 54 is a lot better than 53. Mark, Dan will stay on it, as I know you will. It's a pleasure, my friends. Thanks for being here.

[Mark Halperin]

Good to see you, Megan. Thank you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Okay, and we'll be right back with a few more stories that we have to bring to you today, including an update on this crazy Justin Baldoni thing. And why does Captain America hate America? I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius xm. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today, you can catch the movie Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast, and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

[Tom Homan]

Go to SiriusXM.com MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com MKShow and get three months free.

[Mark Halperin]

Offer details apply.

[Megyn Kelly]

Just a couple more stories that we wanted to get to today, including an update on the Justin Baldoni dust up with Blake Lively. You know that Justin and his team promised to start releasing all of his correspondence with her. They're saying we'll be an open book. This is not a nice person. And Justin bent over backwards to accommodate her many, many demands, which included, according to him, taking over the film, rewriting scenes, all of which is very irregular for the co star. That's what the producer does. Maybe a director, certainly a writer, none of which she was. But they're saying she decided she wanted to take over and use the power of her fame and name and that of her husband Ryan Reynolds to bully Justin Baldoni into the fetal position. And this has been released. Now according to tmz, they're sourcing Justin, saying he's following through on his vow to release all his communications with Blake Lively, revealing a nearly seven minute apology he sent her at 2am while they were working on the film. It ends with us, you, the audience may recall. This all got started because she came out in the New York Times alleging that she'd been sexually harassed by him and that he, to keep it secret, generated an inorganic Blake sucks media campaign against her. Last summer when the movie was released, it had people like the New York Times and others saying, gee, we have to rethink all the bad press that we read or wrote about Blake Lively. Were we used by a sexual harasser trying to smear her. And this led Justin to eventually speak out saying this is all bs, that I didn't harass her in any way, shape or form. She tried to steal my movie from her. I bent over backward to accommodate her. Her alleged claims of sexual harassment are complete bs. Here's what really happened. Released their actual texts putting things like he watched me breastfeed naked in my trailer in context when we saw text from her saying I'm breastfeeding in my trailer, come on over. And they've gone tit for tat in the nice pun right after the breastfeeding ever since in the media. So this is just the latest salvo and I will play you to a two minute summary of the seven minute groveling apology he sent her in this voicemail at 2am it's interesting by the way he has it. I guess he was taping his own voicemails because I this is according to tmz, coming from him or his team, not from her. I think the point of it is to show us that that he was not some evil harasser. He was as I he was subjugated to her and Ryan Reynolds and clearly afraid of both of them. This guy's been to a little a few too many how to be a feminist classes. Take a listen.

[Tom Homan]

Hey Blake, it is 2 in the morning.

[Megyn Kelly]

Hopefully this does not wake you up. I want to start with an apology, man.

[Tom Homan]

I.

[Megyn Kelly]

Reading the second part of your message, my heart sank and I'm really sorry. I for sure fell short. And you worked really hard on that and the way you framed it.

[Tom Homan]

And.

[Megyn Kelly]

How that made you feel. I just want to say thank you.

[Tom Homan]

For sharing that with me. That takes a lot of trust and vulnerability and.

[Megyn Kelly]

And damn right you got great friends if.

[D]

If that's how you felt and they.

[Megyn Kelly]

Knew that and we should all have friends. Like that aside, we think that's Taylor Swift Planet. The three of you guys together, it's unbelievable. Talk about energy and just to force all three of you. But I just wanted you to know that I didn't need that because it's really good and it's gonna make the movie sing like you said. And.

[Tom Homan]

And I'm excited to go through the.

[Megyn Kelly]

Whole movie with you. I'm just excited to spend time with you.

[Tom Homan]

I'm excited to.

[Megyn Kelly]

To be in your sphere and your presence and for us to share creative just threw up in my mouth together. Although that sounds terrible.

[Tom Homan]

You know, I think you and I.

[Megyn Kelly]

Have been trying to build a relationship, which I think we've done successfully. I mean, here we are talking like this. Me into my phone at 2 in the morning, but there's nothing more exciting to me like that I get to.

[Tom Homan]

Work with Blake Lively and have her, all of her.

[Megyn Kelly]

Anyways, I have so much more to say. I'm gonna stop rambling because Jesus Christ, it's been six minutes and 30 seconds. So me, I'm sorry.

[Tom Homan]

You probably have kids all over you and a baby on your boob and.

[Megyn Kelly]

You'Re listening to me ramble at 2 in the morning. He's an odd man. This is an odd, odd man. I can't imagine receiving a seven minute. I guess it was a voice memo that he wrote. He did on his own phone center. Why nobody wants a seven minute voice memo or voicemail from anybody. Even just a call seems aggressive in 2025, doesn't it? When somebody calls you, it seems aggressive, but never mind a seven minute. So there's speculation that this may be what. But one of the things. Because it sounds like they'd already had their fight that night where Ryan Reynolds reamed him out. But you know, you tell me whether your husband wants a man calling you at two in the morning and whether there was something between these two that got Ryan Reynolds back up, you know, that made him a little concerned that had her running to the harassment I swear it was harassment Place. It's one of the theories that's out there. What I hear is an emasculated man who is probably not a harasser, but is a bootlicker begging for his star to treat him well and let him participate in his whole. In his own movie, which doesn't exactly make Justin look great, but it certainly doesn't support her narrative that he was this evil, brutal, bully, sexual harasser. And poor, little, meek, powerless Blake just had to deal with his aggressive advances. That's just so obviously a lie at this point. Like, I don't know. She's. She's made herself into Amber Heard. We all see it. This was a massive disaster for her to unleash this PR campaign against him, which, by the way, Brian Friedman told us she started. She was the one, through her PR agent, who was dropping negative stories about Justin, not the other way around. She played with fire, and now she got burned. This isn't going to end well for you, Blake. Sorry. By the way, his book in 2021 was called Man Enough Undefining My Masculinity, and he did a whole podcast trying to undefine his masculinity. Justin, you succeeded. You're good. You can. You can stop unspooling now because there's no thread left on that. That thing. Okay, Captain America. There's an actor who's playing Captain America, and his name is Anthony Mackie, and he decided to do a promotional event Monday in Aroma. And here is what. What he said.

[Mark Halperin]

For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things. And I don't think the term, you.

[Megyn Kelly]

Know, America should be one of those representations.

[Mark Halperin]

Like, it's about a man who keeps his word, who has honor, dignity, and integrity, someone who is trustworthy and dependable.

[Megyn Kelly]

Honestly, it's like they want us to hate these Hollywood stars. You know, like Snow White. Well, she's not going to be rescued by a prince, I can tell you that. And now this guy, Captain America. I can tell you what Captain America is not about. America. Hello, you complete fool. It's in the name. There's, like, two things Captain America is about. It's being a Captain of America for America. It's written right in there. They idiot proofed it, my friend. You don't even have to try hard. No, it's about being dignified. Oh, because that's not American. You see, why do they keep casting these people in these iconic American roles who hate the country? This is why the right half of the country hates you, Holly Weird and Disney and the people who put together these films. I'm sick of this nonsense. So put another one on your list not to see comes out in two weeks. Captain America, who appears to hate the country. Okay, last but not least, New York magazine, you won't be surprised, has done a hit piece on conservatives, but this one is so, so interesting because it's totally backfired on them. They, they put out. Let me just walk you through it. Okay, so they. First they put out this cover of New York magazine and it shows an event at inauguration weekend, I think that was put together by CJ Pearson, who not for nothing, is a young black conservative. And the headline for the listening audience is the Cruel kids tape on the cruel kids table for New York magazine. And what you see on the front is a collection of absolutely beautiful, happy, seemingly optimistic world at our fingertips, 20s and 30s folks celebrating Trump's win and the promise that it brings. For what again, America. That's for you, Captain. And what we got from New York magazine was a smear piece that tried to tell us they're racists and cropped the picture to eliminate the black participants. So look at the larger picture, the larger spread that appeared inside the magazine, but not on the COVID where you can see on screen left there are 1, 2, 3, at least 4 black men who have been cropped out of the picture. Sure, it's really shocking. I mean, I guess it's not that shocking, but it's an obvious hit piece on MAGA and what they've actually wound up doing. And I do mean they because the person who wrote this uses the pronoun they. I'm sorry, but they is taken. Brock Collier. They is not available to you. I think Brock is a he going by they. I refuse. I'm, I'm going to call you he. Brock thinks he has it all figured out. And then I guess if he just puts a bunch of beautiful white people on the COVID of New York magazine, it's going to make us hate maga. What I think is going to happen is young, bitter, shaved head leftists with their little blue bracelets and their huge glasses are going to look at these youthful, gorgeous, glowing, optimistic world at their fingertips young people and say, I wish I could get in. I want in with that cruel, with that not cruel, cool crowd and not look at them as the cruel table because the evidence of cruelty is they say the word and they're not sorry. Okay? That is a backlash against wokeism where people have had it with having their language policed. This guy I think tried to win me over and stop me from doing the segment at the end where he tried to compliment this show, saying he had apparently taken to it. It I have no idea really what it was, but he was saying that these folks no longer have any patience for identity warriors, he said. A friend and I started swapping clips of MK on Instagram. We thought they were hilarious. Our favorite was her take on the fires in la. The last thing I want to see if I'm burning in a burning building is A a woman and B, an obese woman. You're almost there. But in any event, they still don't get maga. They don't get old maga, they don't get middle maga, they don't get young maga. And that is why they will continue to lose and remain rudderless, as we discussed with Dan Turrent. Thanks for joining me today. We'll see you tomorrow from D.C. after the RFKJ hearings. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No bs, no agenda and no fear.